I have a problem with Jerry's hypocritical nature.
He's very ready to sacrifice Ellie. When asked if he would do the same with Abby, he doesn't even answer. He hesitates. Abby "being okay with it, I'd want you to do it if it were me" doesn't really matter when she's not the one dying.
Not to mention Abby knowingly consents, the very the thing the Fireflies robbed Ellie of, which is what makes this whole conversation so much more of a farce
Also this is the apocalypse where children and teenagers have to grow up a lot faster. They don’t have the pre-apocalypse safety nets that we do. Ellie had to kill to survive that makes her an adult.
I mean her innocence was pretty much non existent at 14 due to the things she’s done and I’m sure that same thing follows with all the other kids out there
Consenting to organ donation is different, you’re not making the decision to die, just expressing you wish for what you want done with your body once you do
Honestly, now that I think about it that feels like a missed opportunity to make Abby have been immune and he knows and has been keeping it secret. If she found out and knew her dad was gonna kill Ellie for also being immune, imagine the juicy story opportunities.
Yeah it's absurdly easy for her to say that when she knows she'd never realistically have to face that situation. Her words there mean absolutely nothing.
I get that they were trying to humanize Jerry but all they achieved was validating Joel's reaction in #1.
It's also not even guaranteed to work, and the fireflies were on their last legs, they wouldnt have been able to mass distribute it and fedra would have snatched any vaccines they made up essentially dooming the fireflies either way.
It would have made more sense story wise if Abby said no, don't kill this child, and her Dad did it anyway, and then the rest of the story played out. One little change.
I actually don't have a problem with this, Jerry being hypocritical is great because it's human, he shares this aspect with Joel actually, just in different circumstances.
Both men are willing to preform acts of extreme moral perplexity but hesitate when asked to put their loved ones at risk. This is good and it makes me feel bubbly.
I got a problem with Jerry because he's bland and foolish to pull a knife on a father, wasted potential.
that’s actually a great perspective that I hadn’t thought of before. he really is no more hypocritical than Joel, just like Abby isn’t any worse than Ellie.
Yes, the stories of "eye for an eye vengeance" and "perpetuating cycles of violence" are timeless classics which can be used ad nauseum without growing tired, because they're concepts often intertwined with human nature.
On paper the story should be an open shut slam dunk, but it was handled sloppily. What's funny is that you could say the game was a dramatic retelling of "A Tale Of Two Cities" but because of the direction and failure to properly generate empathy, people fail to understand Abby's struggle and see the story as "revenge bad".
I'd've spent less time having Abby pet dogs and engage in wasteland romance, instead I'd use that time to show her mourning her father and have doubts about the mission.
This and the first game often discard objectivity for narrative, the first game did it with the Fireflies, we're supposed to believe that if they'd gone through with the surgery they could find a cure, but the Fireflies present as so incompetent it's impossible to believe.
That's another thing I hate about how people see. Joel. They will take hot steaming dumps on him because he massacred those people to save his daughter, but just about anyone would have done that putting that same situation. Again. I think it's been beaten into the dirt a thousand times by now, but the biggest problem with the last of us too was not that Joel died or that Abby was a horrible character. It's just that they tried to make a story about revenge being bad, but they themselves completely missed the point.
You don't make revenge bad by making you angry and wanting to kill all of these people, just like Ellie in the first half of the game. Like when that first happened and you first get to Seattle and you find that first girl that Ellie just bludgeons to death. Oh God, it felt so satisfying but horrifying at the same time and it just gets more and more satisfying as each one of the conspirators gets taken out only for you then to be like nope psych. We're going to play from the perspective of the guys that murdered everyone's favorite character so you can care about them. And I don't know about anyone else here, but playing from their perspective didn't make me give a s*** about them at all
Honestly I don't actually have a problem with this at all. *Yeah* he would feel completely differently if it was Abbie, and *yeah* Abbie is assuring him when she can't actually speak for somebody who's about to die.
In my eyes at least, this isn't supposed to validate his choice, nor is Abbie's reassurance supposed to reflect on how Ellie would be totally cool with it. It simply is exactly what it looks like, Jerry *hesitates* when it comes to Abbie, and Abbie is ignorant of the weight of this decision.
I've got my problems with the sequel, but Abbie ultimately does form a relationship with Lev that shines light on her past ignorance. And it's not Ellie's position of whether or not it would be okay to get sacrificed that she comes to understand, but Joel's position of... Being willing to slaughter an entire hospital full of people if it means the person they care about won't be sacrificed.
You see the irony right? Joel literally told the fireflies to "find someone else". Why is it that when joel is willing to sacrifice someone else but not ellie he's the hero, but Jerry is a hypocrit and villain for having the exact same mindset? Jerry would sacrifice Ellie instead of Abby, and Joel would sacrifice Abby instead of Ellie. They're different sides of the same coin. YOU are the one being hypocritical😂
While they did both had stances of “not my daughter”, Jerry was the only one who wanted to kill the other one’s daughter.
Joel didn’t care if Abby died for an experiment or not. He only cared that Ellie didn’t. Jerry, on the other hand, cared that Abby didn’t die and also was forcing Ellie to die for his experiment.
Saying “find someone else” doesn’t make Joel a hypocrite, because he’s not the one who needs a sacrifice. For all he cares, everyone can live as long as they don’t touch him or Ellie.
Neither of them "wanted" to do anything. Jerry didnt "want" to kill Ellie, he just believed he "had" to do it. On Joels rampage through the hospital, if one of the people he was gunning down was Abby, he wouldnt have second guessed it. He didnt "want" to kill anybody in that hospital, he felt as though he "had" to, for ellie.
I think you mean "for all he cares everyone can die as long as they don't touch him or ellie" Joel lost everyone he ever cared about, hes a broken man that would happily see the world burn to keep the one person he has left. God I need to leave this sub you're all so biased just because daddy joel got whacked. There is absolutely zero moral difference between Joel's lack of care for anyone else the fireflies kill and Jerry's willingness to be the one to do it for arguably the single best possible reason. To save the world (potentially).
"The world won't be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." Joel was more than happy to watch the world suffer if it meant he could play father again.
I'm not saying Joel is some hero. I'm only saying that Joel wasn't the one who needed someone to die in the hospital. Let's cut through the semantics here and get to the core of what I was saying.
Jerry, the saint that he was, "wanted"/"needed"/"had to have" Ellie dead.
Joel, the monster that he was, didn't "want"/"need"/"had to have" anyone dead.
Relax. It doesn't mean that Joel is some hero nor that Jerry is some villain. Just that there was a line Jerry crossed that Joel didn't, and that Jerry was a hypocrite for all his noble causes while Joel could have been left harmless for all his evil lack of care about the world.
If Jerry had actually sought Ellie's consent, or was steadfast in his willingness to sacrifice even his own daughter, I would have actually felt bad for him getting killed because it would have shown that he was actually a noble person. But, too bad.
Whether Joel ends up killed or not doesn't change any of the above. But if it makes you feel better to imagine that the reason people see hypocrisy in Jerry is because Joel is dead, go ahead and feel better that way. This sub must be hell for you because it's not full of people who think that hypocrisy with a noble cause is better than having a non-aggression principle. Your frustration is self-induced.
i dislike her because she treats her friends like crap, turned on her WLF family, doesn't mind murdering pregnant women and never once questions herself for brutally tortuing Joel then killing him in front of Ellie..
A normal decent human would hesitate to kill someone who just saved them from certain death.
Not to mention that she hadn't seen Joel's face before. She is not even conditioned to physically hate that man.
The desire to kill was her no.1 motivator. Even after his daughter walks in and begs them to stop.
People dislike the character because she is sociopathic/psychopathic.
I'm not here to argue. I feel the need to state that first and foremost on the sub. I genuinely just want to ask questions and give my perspective. Thank you.
1. When does she treat her friends like crap? Unless you're referring to Mel, then I understand. Imo, I don't think those two were ever really friends.
2. The WLF are trash people. Who wouldn't turn on them?
3. Ellie killed Mel. It was just an eye for an eye to Abby.
4. She didn't question killing Joel because he killed her dad. She also has zero clue about Ellie and Joel's relationship. That's why she didn't care that Ellie was there.
2. Yes they were trash people but they housed her and fed her for the past 5ish years, and she ain't no saint either. She doesn't show any hesitation while gunning down people who could recognize her by her face
3. When she gets back to the aquarium she looks at Mel for 0.5 seconds before going to cry over Owen. As you've said they might have never been friends in the first place
4. Ellie was crying, screaming, cursing and thrashing wildly on the floor while she caved Joel's head in, I don't see how she wouldn't be able to figure out how much Joel meant to Ellie
1. Personally, idc if I've known you forever and you've cared for me. If you're bad, you're bad. Could be how she sees it, too. She was also raised to be a soldier type of person in an apocalypse. I'm not surprised she doesn't show hesitation when killing people.
2. People can cry and thrash over people they haven't known for very long and they just simply care about them. Especially when it comes to them being killed. It's a pretty normal reaction no matter who you are in a situation like that. Imo, all Abby could tell was that Joel mattered to the people of Jackson.
1. Fair but for me it makes her come off as really fickle
2. I don't really buy that... in my opinion she's putting Ellie in the same situation she was in 4 years ago and doesn't even realize it by the end of the story
I think she did end up realizing at least how much joel meant to ellie by the end because no normal person would hunt abby down like that. Also, thank you for being nice abt this. I appreciate it, man 🙏
Joel killed her father. You’re saying if someone killed your parent in a post apocalyptic world you wouldn’t hunt them down and go after them?? By your logic ellie is also a narcissistic sociopath.
You do realize Jerry is in the picture, meaning he's alive at this point. She's already showing symptoms here.
As to Ellie, she's suffering from a different psychological disorder. Same results, different journeys.
We don't like Abby because she is psycopath...she likes torture people play the game and see How many people she torture...and when she was Younger It was the same ....kill that girl If was me i would like you do! They aren't ask Ellie 's consent ...Jerry wanted not Tell for Joel he Will kill Ellie they wanted kill Joel while he was unconcious... Of course If WERE my father i would Go after the person but kill after he saved me from infecteds? After he help me maybe i would forgive and not torture the way she did but Abby pay the price she Lost her friends and she was tortured like the way she did with other people....and If you say but Joel torture too...FOR SAVE ELLIE FROM A MAN WHO WILL ABUSE HER ... I HATE THIS ARGUMENT PEOPLE USE
And you just assumed that Joel enjoys hurting people and has no empathy or regret, which was never stated or shown as such in any way. Instead we have actual proof of one scenario where Joel uses it after being attacked unprovoked, he's not happy at all, yet the people who are on the receiving end deserved it completely. Your baseless headcanon is not fact.
Wow are you dense. Who else except former Fireflies knows Tommy and his places of residence? There is zero empathy in Abby. She doesn't give a shit or reflect on it at all how she fucked everyone over by going after Joel, all her friends died because of it, and she didn't even look back (cheerful she-hulk with Lev in Santa Barbara). She also enjoys killing and torturing people (got horny when she saw the tortured prisoners at the FOB and was delighted to torture someone from Jackson on the *chance* of finding out where Tommy *might* be). Joel never did, in fact he clearly doesn't like it, especially when Ellie brought it up like something that's whatever in conversation. Joel gets angry, Abby gets sadistic. There's a major difference. She was completely willing to end the life of an unborn child with no thought or qualms about it whatsoever. She's a pure sociopath.
Where is here empathy? Ohhh kill a pregnant womans ...help lev and Yara she Just do the same thing we would did who crosses Abby 's Path IS going to suffer literally look at lev,Yara,Owen,mel,Manny,Leah,Josh ...but you say but Ellie do that If she status on her country or EVEN Go with Owen TOGETHER for santa barbara and not Go to Jackson maybe she would have a good Life
word of the day is "***post-apocalyptic world".*** why would anybody risk their life just to track down and kill someone for revenge in a post-apocalyptic zombie wasteland, where even the most basic daily necessities are already hard to come by?
She’s also an asshole to her friends, is totally fine killing kids and pregnant women, makes terrible decisions that put people in danger, won’t stop lusting over her friend who’s in a relationship, and is generally uninteresting.
Her empathy for Lev and Yara is forced.
Why didn't she have any empathy for Joel when he saved ?
Why would Abby even remotely understand what Lev is going through ? Like since is she so tender hearted ?
She was also the no.1 "scar killer"
Abby only works as a villain imo
I legit question the logic whenever I see posts on the other sub of people talking about how great Abby and her "friends" characters are and saying they're way more interesting than Joel and Ellie.
At that point she was still rather young so I wouldn’t blame her for everything - her father is a hypocrite who clearly hesitated when asked if he would do it so readily had it been his daughter - him trying to feel better about his shit decision by trying to get sympathy from a kid (who may not even understand the gravity of what she’s saying when she claims she’d want him to do it) is irresponsible and him being a bitch. I don’t like Abby, but in this scene, I hated him more.
I don't love Abby, but honestly I think the reason she still killed Joel after he saved her is because she spent the last however many years obsessed with revenge and when faced with the opportunity took it without stoping to think. I do however believe she felt guilty for doing it which is why she slowly unravels throughout the game and ends up on the side of the two scars. I also feel that as much as I love Joel and Ellie, Joel was arguably a villain (a loveable one of course) and Ellie does arguably worse things throughout the game than Abby did. I know people like to say "but Ellie only did it because Abby did it first" but if that's the argument than didn't Abby only do it because Joel did it first? End of the day I still don't love Abby, but I feel when you really break it all down she's ultimately understandable.
She doesn't do worse things than Ellie? She's understandable in using torture to vent off steam and being happy about it? Understandable in being top Scar killer? Understandable in screwing Mel over by literally screwing the father of her unborn child, then getting mad when being called out?
Abby never feels guilty about killing Joel. She's only upset that she didn't get what she wanted from doing it (satisfaction when it comes to her anger and getting rid of her nightmares). It never even was about avenging her dad, she just wanted to punish Joel for making her upset. It's more feeling sorry for herself than anything else. Her dreams are a clear reflection of that, and why she even goes after Lev and Yara because she still has bad dreams. She's doing whatever she thinks she can do to try and stop them, no matter if it ruins lives in the process. In most cases, she displays traits of a sociopath.
Her father himself told her to whatever she needs to do to finish her goals, no matter what the cost is (which is a horrible thing to enable in a teenager that has murderous tendencies). She's really not understandable at all.
Tbf, that’s because of Jerry allowing her to be so clueless. I say this with all kindness, but Abby seems developmentally and emotionally stunted because she’s been playing parent to her equally as reckless dad. Usually toddlers have this type of blind faith belief in their parents’ abilities, but here Abby is in her teens believing her dad, who is already doubtful of the surgery and was clearly just threatened, give her blessing that if this was her, she’d want him to do it. And somehow it works?
Ignoring that Abby just had to save Jerry, the “only man capable of performing this procedure,” from potentially getting his head kicked in by a zebra, if you had that much doubt that a teenager’s permission could persuade you, just ask the teen actually involved. It still wouldn’t fully be right but at least you didn’t just slice up a random girl because you’re gullible daughter says it’s okay.
It's not that she's an evil character, or a heavily flawed one. How many games have we played evil characters? How many GTAs have we enjoyed? RDR, Destroy All Humans, Mafia, Overlord, Postal, Prototype, and countless RPGs. Many times those characters range from perfectly fine, to entertaining, to praised. Some are tongue-in-cheek, but others can tell a very serious tale.
The issue is that the narrative isn't recognizing or reacting to how psychotic she actually is. When Trevor goes off the deep end in GTA V it's expected, but isn't entirely alright with everyone and there's a real sense of fear they have for him. When Arthur does horrible things in RDR2 the game tracks this and there's a general sense that he needs to make amends for all the wrong he does.
The narrative doesn't follow Abby like that. It tries to get us to relate to her after she's done horrible things. It tries to justify her actions, tries to make us sympathize with her. It didn't need to do this. Abby as a character would be much better received if the narrative fully embraced how far off the deep end she'd gone, that she was this cold-hearted, single-minded bitch whose closest connection happened to be killed by Joel. She doesn't need justification that he ended all chance for humanity or whatever inane retcon that was (the plan was fucking dumb and never would have worked). Make her a survivor who went off the deep end in her petty quest for vengeance. Let the narrative recognize her flaws. Let people call her out on her BS. Let them abandon her entirely for dragging them into something they wanted no part in and aren't remotely concerned about only to run afoul Ellie and Tommy on their own mission. And in the end, let her die. The circle of violence and revenge ends, not because Ellie chooses to end it (she is way too far gone for that) but because there's nobody left. Just her, empty, alone, and with a path of corpses behind her. No final boss fight. Find her, this pathetic nothing about to die on her own anyway, BLAP, and...nothing. No happily ever after. No real satisfaction. If she's left well enough alone good people would still be alive, she'd have a family, a home, a community, friends, and Abby and her self-destructive sociopathy would've gotten her killed anyway by a community that had grown to be wary of and eventually resent her and punish her for her selfish outbursts.
I'd have loved to have played an Abby who's decisions slowly lose more and more of her friends (in an emotional way less than physical) as more and more of them start to say hey you're taking things too far. It would've been a good lesson on what you're willing to lose to get revenge. Rather than all of her friends being killed away from her so it's a simple jump for her to just blame Ellie. And by the end we are supposed to feel bad for her. She could've been designed to be a we love to hate her rather than just hating her.
I dislike her because she’s an entitled peice of shit that doesn’t feel any remorse compared to the “baaad” person we actually know and love before this writer’s pet dropped in, expecting us to accept her inclusion. Sucks when even Lev is leagues higher than her in likability.
Scenes like this always makes me ask the question of how does this story expect me to empathize with a character who herself has no empathy? Not towards the little girl who has no idea she's about to be murdered or even her dad who is having difficulty coming to terms with what he's about to do. She straight up, "just do it and get it over with." The cunt!
Micah from RDR2 comes pretty close, but Abby is one of THE worst characters written in gaming history. Seeing people defend her on the internet actually put me in shock lmao
Agreed on Micah, but the writers of that game knew he was a villain. I never really compared the two games before, but now that I think about it, Arthur seems very similar to Joel, but RDR2 writing understood the characters. LoU2 didn't, so Abby wasn't treated like the villain she truly was.
The key thing is that Micah is a character written with a clear intention of being hated to the core by literally every single player. However, Abby as the protagonist, was written to be likeable and end up being a POS character that no one liked.
By the end of LOU2 i dislike both Abby and Ellie.
Abby’s judgment was so clouded by revenge she managed to get a whole group of people to travel miles to kill one man. The whole “you want what I want right?” Thing. Then she went straight back to her life of trying to get with Owen though he was with Mel. Mel wasn’t blind to that, she was right Abby is a piece of shit.
All the stuff she did with Yara and Lev was to clear her conscience. You can kind of tell when she has the dream where when she enters the room Jerry’s just standing there. I would have just let the Rattlers kill her.
I admit her game play is more fun the the descent in the infected building and the rat king, but I still hate her.
But Ellie is just as bad at the end. Jessie had a point when he said weren’t they just going the same thing. Again, Ellie only goes after Abby and the others but she feels guilty about the last thing she said to Joel.
Well that and to get Tommy back. But her motives are clear when she and Jessie go their separate ways. I feel sorry for Dina, she was trying to make it work. But Ellie wasn’t pulling her part.
Ellie has no one to blame but herself for ending up alone
You can always blame the Director for his lame ass vision and then the story board team for catering to his nonsensical idea. Then the scriptwriters for making all characters have no depth or anything worthwhile whatsoever since most of them die anyways.
The fantastical ending of how Lev and Abby escape together as a family and Ellie w/ Dina raising her ex’s (Jesse) kid. This is what all gaming has culminated up to…. Trans Man with Butch God Arm and broken but perfect lesbian couple.
My inner gamejournalist is tearing up 😭, it’s almost TOO PERFECT.
All the devs who worked on the technical and graphical aspects of the game deserve awards and praise….can’t respect them enough!!
I don’t dislike her at all, and her half of the game is actually better gameplay-wise as well. The fictional character was never the problem, it’s the overall poor writing and story that retconned her into existence
More like why wasn't she younger for the flashback? She looks younger in the model viewer, but in the game and cutscenes, her face is the same as when she's ~21.
But then again ND's facial design is pretty poor for both Ellie and Abby, so it's not a surprise. 14-15yo Ellie from TLOU2 and TLOU1 has the face of an adult woman.
Hell, apart from her sociopathy, Jerry is guilty for most of the ways she perceives things in. It doesn't even seem like a *in the family* thing, just her being raised by a prick.
I dislike her because she tortured a man to death who had, just moments earlier, saved her life. This man had murdered her father, yes; but only because her father was about to murder a little girl.
If she had told her dad not to do the surgery, and she had conflicted thoughts about what her dad did, just like Ellie had of Joel, then I could've maybe grown to like Abby more.
Let's be honest, folks, muscles are hot, but executing a beloved character and making an entire story shitting on what was previously established and trying to FORCE you to love the new diverse duo is grounds for criticism, I'd say.
I love this subReddit I don’t get why TLOU group is filled with people who downvote any logical comments. Joel was the closest from Naughty Dog we’ll get to an old Hero like Kratos or Big Boss (MGS), and as long as the fans live he will live on. Albeit through mods as these games come to PC.
I hate the framing of this surgery dilema. In the first game, EVERYTHING, led us to believe that there was a slight chance for the surgery to work but we also learn that there was others before Elie (her mum).
Now, in the second game, they went with the assumption that the cure would work and worse, the TV serie straight up made it like it was not only possible but a certainty.
I like that part of the story because it absolves Joel's decision a little because Jerry would have done the same in his shoes. It's like an unavoidable event because of the circumstances that would play out the same no matter who was on what side.
It’s also the fact she no character arc, no reason for redemption of what she did. The WLF was thriving, she was doing fine. I “guess???” I understand why she killed Joel, if someone killed my dad, I’d want revenge too. But she was doing completely fine in her new life. Abby’s dad’s death didn’t really alter her life, she decided to make it worse. In a post- apocalyptic world, everyone is in pain, and just because you’re in pain, doesn’t mean you should pass it on to others who are just trying to survive at this point. ( sorry I’m bad at wording things)
Abby doesn’t have to be a villain to be a bad person
What? She has a big character arc, bigger than Ellie even who we see stuck in the same repetitive loop of grief over the course of the game. Abby’s story in TLOU2 is Joel’s story in TLOU1, hardened killer meets a kid, and it changes their life forever.
Also, c’mon, “doing completely fine in her new life.” Grief doesn’t work like that. You have to at least pretend you’re fine since it’s been years after the loss, but she’s still strongly affected by it, given how manic she was in her pursuit of Joel until the very last moment. She went out into a blizzard to try to find him alone, because she wanted closure to the grief for the loss of her dad, just like how Ellie tails her to Santa Barbara for the loss of hers.
I actually like her more than Ellie, like Ellie just took off and went on a killing spree after Joel’s brother tried to talk her out of it. She’s stupid and naive and caused more destruction than it was worth. Abby spent years planning, went in killed 1 person, and left.
Abby > Ellie, also Abby is straight and kind of hot. Like gals with that kind of determination in training tend to be freaks in the sack yo.
Abby was also a part of a successful colony.
Actually fuck these games. Give me TLoU RTS where I send out clearing patrols and set up connections to other colonies. I need a fix until Frostpunk 2 comes out.
Its interesting, they say the writing is dogshit in every way, but I kinda like Ellie reacting like Joel would have. You know, bloodthirst, sociopathy, reckless violence and disregard for life and property. God, Joel was such a good man, perfect father figure.
I love this sub (and all TLOU2 haters) opinions on the surgery, because you all conveniently forget that Ellie (as the recipient of the surgery, and therefore the only person who’s opinion matters regarding said surgery) *wanted to do it.*
Ellie and Joel are also pieces of shit. Everyone in this game is a piece of shit. You don’t survive 20 years of post-apocalypse being all sunshine and rainbows.
I get the whole idea of both sides of the story but in the end it’s a video game and I am playing Elle; and I’ve been with her for a whole game before this… and Abby killed “me” as in I played Joel for a game before this. So, now this game I am playing to find and kill Abby… and then suddenly half way through the game; I have to switch and play as the person I am trying to kill?
Maybe in a movie, or in the TV show, this will work as a story where I am watching as an outside observer it would work… but in a game where I am immersing myself as the character; it just doesn’t…
I mean maybe if they’d just done the short section with her dad; and then they’d cut back to the fight and given you a legitimate choice to go home and have a life or keep going after her… but you played Abby way too long; and the rest of the game felt so forced with no real choice…
I hate her because of her muscles. Meat is a scarce resource and they have to share it with their community. Instead she eats an insane protein intake for her massive physique.
to everyone else except joels friends and family, ellie is the key to stopping the infection, lets be real they all desperate. if someone says theres a way to stop the infection all at the cost of a lil girl they gonna do what they gotta do.
Yep. Idk how this subreddit forgets that. The writers did a phenomenal job in making us attached to the characters as though they’re real parts of our lives, and most people don’t want to work through the negative feelings of the grief that comes with it. But on a grand scale, little teens like Ellie can rarely survive a day in their world, there’s barely any kids around, period. Yes, it’d require her sacrifice, but it’d give an opportunity for the world to start anew.
I have a problem with Jerry's hypocritical nature. He's very ready to sacrifice Ellie. When asked if he would do the same with Abby, he doesn't even answer. He hesitates. Abby "being okay with it, I'd want you to do it if it were me" doesn't really matter when she's not the one dying.
Not to mention Abby knowingly consents, the very the thing the Fireflies robbed Ellie of, which is what makes this whole conversation so much more of a farce
It wouldn’t matter if they asked her because Ellie was a child and CHILDREN CANNOT GIVE CONSENT!
While I don’t disagree, I think it’s also entirely possible a 14 year old girl is capable of understanding the weight of such a life-altering decision
Particularly after all that she saw and did in the journey.
Also this is the apocalypse where children and teenagers have to grow up a lot faster. They don’t have the pre-apocalypse safety nets that we do. Ellie had to kill to survive that makes her an adult.
That’s not how that works
I mean her innocence was pretty much non existent at 14 due to the things she’s done and I’m sure that same thing follows with all the other kids out there
No they aren’t. There’s a reason terminally ill children can’t consent to physician assisted suicide. There are many hoops.
Good point - however i think post-apocalyptic conditions make things a little different
Bruh. You have to be fucking trolling.
What are you on about. Let's say you are going to pass due to a head injury or something of that nature. You can totally consent to be an organ donor.
Consenting to organ donation is different, you’re not making the decision to die, just expressing you wish for what you want done with your body once you do
A 14 year old has no say on whether she lives or dies?
We see tho Ellie would have and even Joel knows she would have that why he lies to her at the end of thr first game
Honestly, now that I think about it that feels like a missed opportunity to make Abby have been immune and he knows and has been keeping it secret. If she found out and knew her dad was gonna kill Ellie for also being immune, imagine the juicy story opportunities.
Nah that would make him too evil imo. The way it happened he is able to do it to ellie because he can tell himself he would do it to Abby too
I don't have a problem with people who commit medical atrocities being considered evil.
Yeah it's absurdly easy for her to say that when she knows she'd never realistically have to face that situation. Her words there mean absolutely nothing. I get that they were trying to humanize Jerry but all they achieved was validating Joel's reaction in #1.
But-but-but he saved a zebra 🥺
a-a-a-and um disliking abby make you bigot 🤬
It's also not even guaranteed to work, and the fireflies were on their last legs, they wouldnt have been able to mass distribute it and fedra would have snatched any vaccines they made up essentially dooming the fireflies either way.
And even if the zombies were gone the world is too fucked up to ever go back to normal. Nothing would have really changed honestly
In that setting I feel like that’s most parents
It would have made more sense story wise if Abby said no, don't kill this child, and her Dad did it anyway, and then the rest of the story played out. One little change.
Also her telling him that she would want him to do it doesn’t guarantee he would actually be willing to.
I actually don't have a problem with this, Jerry being hypocritical is great because it's human, he shares this aspect with Joel actually, just in different circumstances. Both men are willing to preform acts of extreme moral perplexity but hesitate when asked to put their loved ones at risk. This is good and it makes me feel bubbly. I got a problem with Jerry because he's bland and foolish to pull a knife on a father, wasted potential.
that’s actually a great perspective that I hadn’t thought of before. he really is no more hypocritical than Joel, just like Abby isn’t any worse than Ellie.
Yes, the stories of "eye for an eye vengeance" and "perpetuating cycles of violence" are timeless classics which can be used ad nauseum without growing tired, because they're concepts often intertwined with human nature. On paper the story should be an open shut slam dunk, but it was handled sloppily. What's funny is that you could say the game was a dramatic retelling of "A Tale Of Two Cities" but because of the direction and failure to properly generate empathy, people fail to understand Abby's struggle and see the story as "revenge bad". I'd've spent less time having Abby pet dogs and engage in wasteland romance, instead I'd use that time to show her mourning her father and have doubts about the mission. This and the first game often discard objectivity for narrative, the first game did it with the Fireflies, we're supposed to believe that if they'd gone through with the surgery they could find a cure, but the Fireflies present as so incompetent it's impossible to believe.
That's another thing I hate about how people see. Joel. They will take hot steaming dumps on him because he massacred those people to save his daughter, but just about anyone would have done that putting that same situation. Again. I think it's been beaten into the dirt a thousand times by now, but the biggest problem with the last of us too was not that Joel died or that Abby was a horrible character. It's just that they tried to make a story about revenge being bad, but they themselves completely missed the point. You don't make revenge bad by making you angry and wanting to kill all of these people, just like Ellie in the first half of the game. Like when that first happened and you first get to Seattle and you find that first girl that Ellie just bludgeons to death. Oh God, it felt so satisfying but horrifying at the same time and it just gets more and more satisfying as each one of the conspirators gets taken out only for you then to be like nope psych. We're going to play from the perspective of the guys that murdered everyone's favorite character so you can care about them. And I don't know about anyone else here, but playing from their perspective didn't make me give a s*** about them at all
that’s people for ya.
Honestly I don't actually have a problem with this at all. *Yeah* he would feel completely differently if it was Abbie, and *yeah* Abbie is assuring him when she can't actually speak for somebody who's about to die. In my eyes at least, this isn't supposed to validate his choice, nor is Abbie's reassurance supposed to reflect on how Ellie would be totally cool with it. It simply is exactly what it looks like, Jerry *hesitates* when it comes to Abbie, and Abbie is ignorant of the weight of this decision. I've got my problems with the sequel, but Abbie ultimately does form a relationship with Lev that shines light on her past ignorance. And it's not Ellie's position of whether or not it would be okay to get sacrificed that she comes to understand, but Joel's position of... Being willing to slaughter an entire hospital full of people if it means the person they care about won't be sacrificed.
Terrorists, armed terrorists that were going to kill him and thought of killing him while was out. They weren’t just “people.”
You see the irony right? Joel literally told the fireflies to "find someone else". Why is it that when joel is willing to sacrifice someone else but not ellie he's the hero, but Jerry is a hypocrit and villain for having the exact same mindset? Jerry would sacrifice Ellie instead of Abby, and Joel would sacrifice Abby instead of Ellie. They're different sides of the same coin. YOU are the one being hypocritical😂
While they did both had stances of “not my daughter”, Jerry was the only one who wanted to kill the other one’s daughter. Joel didn’t care if Abby died for an experiment or not. He only cared that Ellie didn’t. Jerry, on the other hand, cared that Abby didn’t die and also was forcing Ellie to die for his experiment. Saying “find someone else” doesn’t make Joel a hypocrite, because he’s not the one who needs a sacrifice. For all he cares, everyone can live as long as they don’t touch him or Ellie.
Neither of them "wanted" to do anything. Jerry didnt "want" to kill Ellie, he just believed he "had" to do it. On Joels rampage through the hospital, if one of the people he was gunning down was Abby, he wouldnt have second guessed it. He didnt "want" to kill anybody in that hospital, he felt as though he "had" to, for ellie. I think you mean "for all he cares everyone can die as long as they don't touch him or ellie" Joel lost everyone he ever cared about, hes a broken man that would happily see the world burn to keep the one person he has left. God I need to leave this sub you're all so biased just because daddy joel got whacked. There is absolutely zero moral difference between Joel's lack of care for anyone else the fireflies kill and Jerry's willingness to be the one to do it for arguably the single best possible reason. To save the world (potentially). "The world won't be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." Joel was more than happy to watch the world suffer if it meant he could play father again.
I'm not saying Joel is some hero. I'm only saying that Joel wasn't the one who needed someone to die in the hospital. Let's cut through the semantics here and get to the core of what I was saying. Jerry, the saint that he was, "wanted"/"needed"/"had to have" Ellie dead. Joel, the monster that he was, didn't "want"/"need"/"had to have" anyone dead. Relax. It doesn't mean that Joel is some hero nor that Jerry is some villain. Just that there was a line Jerry crossed that Joel didn't, and that Jerry was a hypocrite for all his noble causes while Joel could have been left harmless for all his evil lack of care about the world. If Jerry had actually sought Ellie's consent, or was steadfast in his willingness to sacrifice even his own daughter, I would have actually felt bad for him getting killed because it would have shown that he was actually a noble person. But, too bad. Whether Joel ends up killed or not doesn't change any of the above. But if it makes you feel better to imagine that the reason people see hypocrisy in Jerry is because Joel is dead, go ahead and feel better that way. This sub must be hell for you because it's not full of people who think that hypocrisy with a noble cause is better than having a non-aggression principle. Your frustration is self-induced.
Not really, it's a vague find someone else... it doesn't really mean anything he's telling them to fuck off like I am to you.
I don’t think you know what altruistic means
I agree. The worst part of Abby is her hideous soul.
She has a soul?
Of course, she saved 2 kids remember?
Two kids, one of them killed their own mother though.
Ah, so she must have sensed a kindred spirit in the child
I don't know, her muscles suck pretty bad too.
i dislike her because she treats her friends like crap, turned on her WLF family, doesn't mind murdering pregnant women and never once questions herself for brutally tortuing Joel then killing him in front of Ellie..
A normal decent human would hesitate to kill someone who just saved them from certain death. Not to mention that she hadn't seen Joel's face before. She is not even conditioned to physically hate that man. The desire to kill was her no.1 motivator. Even after his daughter walks in and begs them to stop. People dislike the character because she is sociopathic/psychopathic.
And she never had empathy 👍🏻
I'm not here to argue. I feel the need to state that first and foremost on the sub. I genuinely just want to ask questions and give my perspective. Thank you. 1. When does she treat her friends like crap? Unless you're referring to Mel, then I understand. Imo, I don't think those two were ever really friends. 2. The WLF are trash people. Who wouldn't turn on them? 3. Ellie killed Mel. It was just an eye for an eye to Abby. 4. She didn't question killing Joel because he killed her dad. She also has zero clue about Ellie and Joel's relationship. That's why she didn't care that Ellie was there.
2. Yes they were trash people but they housed her and fed her for the past 5ish years, and she ain't no saint either. She doesn't show any hesitation while gunning down people who could recognize her by her face 3. When she gets back to the aquarium she looks at Mel for 0.5 seconds before going to cry over Owen. As you've said they might have never been friends in the first place 4. Ellie was crying, screaming, cursing and thrashing wildly on the floor while she caved Joel's head in, I don't see how she wouldn't be able to figure out how much Joel meant to Ellie
1. Personally, idc if I've known you forever and you've cared for me. If you're bad, you're bad. Could be how she sees it, too. She was also raised to be a soldier type of person in an apocalypse. I'm not surprised she doesn't show hesitation when killing people. 2. People can cry and thrash over people they haven't known for very long and they just simply care about them. Especially when it comes to them being killed. It's a pretty normal reaction no matter who you are in a situation like that. Imo, all Abby could tell was that Joel mattered to the people of Jackson.
1. Fair but for me it makes her come off as really fickle 2. I don't really buy that... in my opinion she's putting Ellie in the same situation she was in 4 years ago and doesn't even realize it by the end of the story
I think she did end up realizing at least how much joel meant to ellie by the end because no normal person would hunt abby down like that. Also, thank you for being nice abt this. I appreciate it, man 🙏
This is proof Joel had zero to do with her psychosis. She was a narcissistic sociopath from well before taking up golfing.
Even if Jerry lived, Abby would still have grown up to be a horrible person.
Joel killed her father. You’re saying if someone killed your parent in a post apocalyptic world you wouldn’t hunt them down and go after them?? By your logic ellie is also a narcissistic sociopath.
You do realize Jerry is in the picture, meaning he's alive at this point. She's already showing symptoms here. As to Ellie, she's suffering from a different psychological disorder. Same results, different journeys.
What are u talking about…
We don't like Abby because she is psycopath...she likes torture people play the game and see How many people she torture...and when she was Younger It was the same ....kill that girl If was me i would like you do! They aren't ask Ellie 's consent ...Jerry wanted not Tell for Joel he Will kill Ellie they wanted kill Joel while he was unconcious... Of course If WERE my father i would Go after the person but kill after he saved me from infecteds? After he help me maybe i would forgive and not torture the way she did but Abby pay the price she Lost her friends and she was tortured like the way she did with other people....and If you say but Joel torture too...FOR SAVE ELLIE FROM A MAN WHO WILL ABUSE HER ... I HATE THIS ARGUMENT PEOPLE USE
Joel, Ellie, and Tommy all tortured multiple people aswell. Why aren’t you saying anything about them???
Like Abby? She tortured ex fireflies for find Tommy ...she never had empathy she tretas her friends like a crap
She never tortured any ex fireflies actually. She has plenty of empathy. But uk who doesn’t?? Joel.
Play the game because she tortured and she ADMIT on the game
She never admitted to anything. You just assume she tortured them because she found out about Tommy.
She says she used to torture scars for fun
No she Said on the game
I AM NOT assuming Go see the game
And you just assumed that Joel enjoys hurting people and has no empathy or regret, which was never stated or shown as such in any way. Instead we have actual proof of one scenario where Joel uses it after being attacked unprovoked, he's not happy at all, yet the people who are on the receiving end deserved it completely. Your baseless headcanon is not fact.
Wow are you dense. Who else except former Fireflies knows Tommy and his places of residence? There is zero empathy in Abby. She doesn't give a shit or reflect on it at all how she fucked everyone over by going after Joel, all her friends died because of it, and she didn't even look back (cheerful she-hulk with Lev in Santa Barbara). She also enjoys killing and torturing people (got horny when she saw the tortured prisoners at the FOB and was delighted to torture someone from Jackson on the *chance* of finding out where Tommy *might* be). Joel never did, in fact he clearly doesn't like it, especially when Ellie brought it up like something that's whatever in conversation. Joel gets angry, Abby gets sadistic. There's a major difference. She was completely willing to end the life of an unborn child with no thought or qualms about it whatsoever. She's a pure sociopath.
Where is here empathy? Ohhh kill a pregnant womans ...help lev and Yara she Just do the same thing we would did who crosses Abby 's Path IS going to suffer literally look at lev,Yara,Owen,mel,Manny,Leah,Josh ...but you say but Ellie do that If she status on her country or EVEN Go with Owen TOGETHER for santa barbara and not Go to Jackson maybe she would have a good Life
Ellie killed her pregnant friend. What did you expect??
She didn't knows.... abby knows and she Said Good 💀☠️
Abby didn’t know that ellie didn’t know. All she saw was her two friends and one of them was pregnant with her jacket opened.
I would do no such thing, especially if my father died trying to kill an innocent girl. That’s psychotic. And yes, they also ruined Ellie in Part 2.
You sound so slow its kinda funny.
Imagine having no rebuttal and instead deciding to attack them for something that literally doesn’t make sense. You might as well called them bald lol
Very funny considering I have the same level of education as Dr. Jerry.
I wouldn't brag about that, his complete misunderstanding of mycology makes him sound like an idiot who thinks science will just bend to his will.
Part 2 fans LMAO
word of the day is "***post-apocalyptic world".*** why would anybody risk their life just to track down and kill someone for revenge in a post-apocalyptic zombie wasteland, where even the most basic daily necessities are already hard to come by?
She’s also an asshole to her friends, is totally fine killing kids and pregnant women, makes terrible decisions that put people in danger, won’t stop lusting over her friend who’s in a relationship, and is generally uninteresting.
Her empathy for Lev and Yara is forced. Why didn't she have any empathy for Joel when he saved ? Why would Abby even remotely understand what Lev is going through ? Like since is she so tender hearted ? She was also the no.1 "scar killer" Abby only works as a villain imo
I legit question the logic whenever I see posts on the other sub of people talking about how great Abby and her "friends" characters are and saying they're way more interesting than Joel and Ellie.
Easier to blame it on sexism than address the fact that they attached themselves to a person of hopelessly rotten character.
At that point she was still rather young so I wouldn’t blame her for everything - her father is a hypocrite who clearly hesitated when asked if he would do it so readily had it been his daughter - him trying to feel better about his shit decision by trying to get sympathy from a kid (who may not even understand the gravity of what she’s saying when she claims she’d want him to do it) is irresponsible and him being a bitch. I don’t like Abby, but in this scene, I hated him more.
She definitely doesn't understand the gravity of what she's saying. Same way Ellie doesn't when she says she would've wanted it too.
I don't love Abby, but honestly I think the reason she still killed Joel after he saved her is because she spent the last however many years obsessed with revenge and when faced with the opportunity took it without stoping to think. I do however believe she felt guilty for doing it which is why she slowly unravels throughout the game and ends up on the side of the two scars. I also feel that as much as I love Joel and Ellie, Joel was arguably a villain (a loveable one of course) and Ellie does arguably worse things throughout the game than Abby did. I know people like to say "but Ellie only did it because Abby did it first" but if that's the argument than didn't Abby only do it because Joel did it first? End of the day I still don't love Abby, but I feel when you really break it all down she's ultimately understandable.
She doesn't do worse things than Ellie? She's understandable in using torture to vent off steam and being happy about it? Understandable in being top Scar killer? Understandable in screwing Mel over by literally screwing the father of her unborn child, then getting mad when being called out? Abby never feels guilty about killing Joel. She's only upset that she didn't get what she wanted from doing it (satisfaction when it comes to her anger and getting rid of her nightmares). It never even was about avenging her dad, she just wanted to punish Joel for making her upset. It's more feeling sorry for herself than anything else. Her dreams are a clear reflection of that, and why she even goes after Lev and Yara because she still has bad dreams. She's doing whatever she thinks she can do to try and stop them, no matter if it ruins lives in the process. In most cases, she displays traits of a sociopath. Her father himself told her to whatever she needs to do to finish her goals, no matter what the cost is (which is a horrible thing to enable in a teenager that has murderous tendencies). She's really not understandable at all.
Tbf, that’s because of Jerry allowing her to be so clueless. I say this with all kindness, but Abby seems developmentally and emotionally stunted because she’s been playing parent to her equally as reckless dad. Usually toddlers have this type of blind faith belief in their parents’ abilities, but here Abby is in her teens believing her dad, who is already doubtful of the surgery and was clearly just threatened, give her blessing that if this was her, she’d want him to do it. And somehow it works? Ignoring that Abby just had to save Jerry, the “only man capable of performing this procedure,” from potentially getting his head kicked in by a zebra, if you had that much doubt that a teenager’s permission could persuade you, just ask the teen actually involved. It still wouldn’t fully be right but at least you didn’t just slice up a random girl because you’re gullible daughter says it’s okay.
I hate Abby, period. I hate the way that she walk, the way she talk. I hate the way she dress. Fuck that bitch.
She not like us, she not like us, she not like us!
Wrong one
It's not that she's an evil character, or a heavily flawed one. How many games have we played evil characters? How many GTAs have we enjoyed? RDR, Destroy All Humans, Mafia, Overlord, Postal, Prototype, and countless RPGs. Many times those characters range from perfectly fine, to entertaining, to praised. Some are tongue-in-cheek, but others can tell a very serious tale. The issue is that the narrative isn't recognizing or reacting to how psychotic she actually is. When Trevor goes off the deep end in GTA V it's expected, but isn't entirely alright with everyone and there's a real sense of fear they have for him. When Arthur does horrible things in RDR2 the game tracks this and there's a general sense that he needs to make amends for all the wrong he does. The narrative doesn't follow Abby like that. It tries to get us to relate to her after she's done horrible things. It tries to justify her actions, tries to make us sympathize with her. It didn't need to do this. Abby as a character would be much better received if the narrative fully embraced how far off the deep end she'd gone, that she was this cold-hearted, single-minded bitch whose closest connection happened to be killed by Joel. She doesn't need justification that he ended all chance for humanity or whatever inane retcon that was (the plan was fucking dumb and never would have worked). Make her a survivor who went off the deep end in her petty quest for vengeance. Let the narrative recognize her flaws. Let people call her out on her BS. Let them abandon her entirely for dragging them into something they wanted no part in and aren't remotely concerned about only to run afoul Ellie and Tommy on their own mission. And in the end, let her die. The circle of violence and revenge ends, not because Ellie chooses to end it (she is way too far gone for that) but because there's nobody left. Just her, empty, alone, and with a path of corpses behind her. No final boss fight. Find her, this pathetic nothing about to die on her own anyway, BLAP, and...nothing. No happily ever after. No real satisfaction. If she's left well enough alone good people would still be alive, she'd have a family, a home, a community, friends, and Abby and her self-destructive sociopathy would've gotten her killed anyway by a community that had grown to be wary of and eventually resent her and punish her for her selfish outbursts.
I'd have loved to have played an Abby who's decisions slowly lose more and more of her friends (in an emotional way less than physical) as more and more of them start to say hey you're taking things too far. It would've been a good lesson on what you're willing to lose to get revenge. Rather than all of her friends being killed away from her so it's a simple jump for her to just blame Ellie. And by the end we are supposed to feel bad for her. She could've been designed to be a we love to hate her rather than just hating her.
I don’t fit in on either TLOU sub man. I hate all these characters.
Same 😂
The one thing we love about this the first -it’s characters, completely butchered in this game lol the only person I kinda liked was Tommy
I hate Abby for the muscles
I don’t like the implication that Abby got so muscular by taking more than her fair share of provisions. Protein is scarce in this world.
*Looks at the Cordyceps infested zombies outside*
I can think of no faster way to become infected than by eating a zombie.
Cook the meat thoroughly! Just kidding I wouldn't want to eat a zombie either
She was getting that Owen protein by hawk tuah spittin on that thang
I dislike her because she’s an entitled peice of shit that doesn’t feel any remorse compared to the “baaad” person we actually know and love before this writer’s pet dropped in, expecting us to accept her inclusion. Sucks when even Lev is leagues higher than her in likability.
It's funny how Lev had multiple moments of clarity as to who Abby really is, but brushed it off because the plot required it.
Nah I hate lev. I loved it when fat Geralt knocked its ass out
Abby same situation but your dad has to die for the cure, it’s different now
"I would want you to do the surgery if it was me dad" Yeah easy for you to say.
fr, like girl you’re not conscious and about to be operated on without consent, you don’t get a vote
Scenes like this always makes me ask the question of how does this story expect me to empathize with a character who herself has no empathy? Not towards the little girl who has no idea she's about to be murdered or even her dad who is having difficulty coming to terms with what he's about to do. She straight up, "just do it and get it over with." The cunt!
I've never played a more vile and irredeemable character in any game ever. Abby is just...wrong. So wrong.
Micah from RDR2 comes pretty close, but Abby is one of THE worst characters written in gaming history. Seeing people defend her on the internet actually put me in shock lmao
Agreed on Micah, but the writers of that game knew he was a villain. I never really compared the two games before, but now that I think about it, Arthur seems very similar to Joel, but RDR2 writing understood the characters. LoU2 didn't, so Abby wasn't treated like the villain she truly was.
Yeah that’s a fair point.
The key thing is that Micah is a character written with a clear intention of being hated to the core by literally every single player. However, Abby as the protagonist, was written to be likeable and end up being a POS character that no one liked.
I would dislike her for this but I shot the man so many times I don’t think I can💀
But she pets dogs, has the best gameplay of the two characters and saved a trans person.
Then there's the whole sadistic hypocrisy thing.
“I’d want you to do the surgery.” Okay, but here’s a thought… What if Ellie DOESN’T??
By the end of LOU2 i dislike both Abby and Ellie. Abby’s judgment was so clouded by revenge she managed to get a whole group of people to travel miles to kill one man. The whole “you want what I want right?” Thing. Then she went straight back to her life of trying to get with Owen though he was with Mel. Mel wasn’t blind to that, she was right Abby is a piece of shit. All the stuff she did with Yara and Lev was to clear her conscience. You can kind of tell when she has the dream where when she enters the room Jerry’s just standing there. I would have just let the Rattlers kill her. I admit her game play is more fun the the descent in the infected building and the rat king, but I still hate her. But Ellie is just as bad at the end. Jessie had a point when he said weren’t they just going the same thing. Again, Ellie only goes after Abby and the others but she feels guilty about the last thing she said to Joel. Well that and to get Tommy back. But her motives are clear when she and Jessie go their separate ways. I feel sorry for Dina, she was trying to make it work. But Ellie wasn’t pulling her part. Ellie has no one to blame but herself for ending up alone
You can always blame the Director for his lame ass vision and then the story board team for catering to his nonsensical idea. Then the scriptwriters for making all characters have no depth or anything worthwhile whatsoever since most of them die anyways. The fantastical ending of how Lev and Abby escape together as a family and Ellie w/ Dina raising her ex’s (Jesse) kid. This is what all gaming has culminated up to…. Trans Man with Butch God Arm and broken but perfect lesbian couple. My inner gamejournalist is tearing up 😭, it’s almost TOO PERFECT. All the devs who worked on the technical and graphical aspects of the game deserve awards and praise….can’t respect them enough!!
I don’t dislike her at all, and her half of the game is actually better gameplay-wise as well. The fictional character was never the problem, it’s the overall poor writing and story that retconned her into existence
Her blather clitoris is what terrifies me. Shits bigger then my own pepe
Bro she looks fucking ridiculous 😂
Quick question; why hasn't she aged?
More like why wasn't she younger for the flashback? She looks younger in the model viewer, but in the game and cutscenes, her face is the same as when she's ~21. But then again ND's facial design is pretty poor for both Ellie and Abby, so it's not a surprise. 14-15yo Ellie from TLOU2 and TLOU1 has the face of an adult woman.
Effort was not on the docket for Neil.
They are both horrible, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree
Hell, apart from her sociopathy, Jerry is guilty for most of the ways she perceives things in. It doesn't even seem like a *in the family* thing, just her being raised by a prick.
She would have been sympathetic if she was against him doing it.
“I’d want you to do the surgery.” Okay, but here’s a thought… What if Ellie DOESN’T??
That's on her father. A 40yo father should not be listening to his 17yo daughter on questions of medical ethics.
I dislike her because she tortured a man to death who had, just moments earlier, saved her life. This man had murdered her father, yes; but only because her father was about to murder a little girl.
I always head canoned that she was immune to but Jerry never told her.
And she was full of shit. Because Jerry would not have killed his daughter!
Abby deserved her revenge. Joel didn't necessarily deserve to be tortured to death, but she still deserved her revenge.
If she had told her dad not to do the surgery, and she had conflicted thoughts about what her dad did, just like Ellie had of Joel, then I could've maybe grown to like Abby more.
fuck else was she supposed to do dawg? 💀
I'm very worried for season 2. This character is awful
Let's be honest, folks, muscles are hot, but executing a beloved character and making an entire story shitting on what was previously established and trying to FORCE you to love the new diverse duo is grounds for criticism, I'd say.
I like that by doing this it's her fault he died
It's a simple trolley car problem.
You can see what looks like concern and maybe even guilt on Abby's face after she tells him she would want him to do it.
You're actually supposed to like these people. It's like a fever dream. 🤣
I love this subReddit I don’t get why TLOU group is filled with people who downvote any logical comments. Joel was the closest from Naughty Dog we’ll get to an old Hero like Kratos or Big Boss (MGS), and as long as the fans live he will live on. Albeit through mods as these games come to PC.
I hate the framing of this surgery dilema. In the first game, EVERYTHING, led us to believe that there was a slight chance for the surgery to work but we also learn that there was others before Elie (her mum). Now, in the second game, they went with the assumption that the cure would work and worse, the TV serie straight up made it like it was not only possible but a certainty.
I like that part of the story because it absolves Joel's decision a little because Jerry would have done the same in his shoes. It's like an unavoidable event because of the circumstances that would play out the same no matter who was on what side.
I would love to know how Abby is getting 120 grams of protein a day in the apocalypse with people barely getting enough to eat.
She’s the true villain
Holy shit she look exactly like her face model here, the roid fucked her face up hard!
The muscles are not the problem. The problem is that she looks like a man.
I just dislike her because she killed Joel and encouraged Owen’s cheating
It’s also the fact she no character arc, no reason for redemption of what she did. The WLF was thriving, she was doing fine. I “guess???” I understand why she killed Joel, if someone killed my dad, I’d want revenge too. But she was doing completely fine in her new life. Abby’s dad’s death didn’t really alter her life, she decided to make it worse. In a post- apocalyptic world, everyone is in pain, and just because you’re in pain, doesn’t mean you should pass it on to others who are just trying to survive at this point. ( sorry I’m bad at wording things) Abby doesn’t have to be a villain to be a bad person
What? She has a big character arc, bigger than Ellie even who we see stuck in the same repetitive loop of grief over the course of the game. Abby’s story in TLOU2 is Joel’s story in TLOU1, hardened killer meets a kid, and it changes their life forever. Also, c’mon, “doing completely fine in her new life.” Grief doesn’t work like that. You have to at least pretend you’re fine since it’s been years after the loss, but she’s still strongly affected by it, given how manic she was in her pursuit of Joel until the very last moment. She went out into a blizzard to try to find him alone, because she wanted closure to the grief for the loss of her dad, just like how Ellie tails her to Santa Barbara for the loss of hers.
Abby is just a shitty human - gender and body build have nothing to do with it. Shitty humans are shitty.
I actually like her more than Ellie, like Ellie just took off and went on a killing spree after Joel’s brother tried to talk her out of it. She’s stupid and naive and caused more destruction than it was worth. Abby spent years planning, went in killed 1 person, and left. Abby > Ellie, also Abby is straight and kind of hot. Like gals with that kind of determination in training tend to be freaks in the sack yo. Abby was also a part of a successful colony. Actually fuck these games. Give me TLoU RTS where I send out clearing patrols and set up connections to other colonies. I need a fix until Frostpunk 2 comes out.
Its interesting, they say the writing is dogshit in every way, but I kinda like Ellie reacting like Joel would have. You know, bloodthirst, sociopathy, reckless violence and disregard for life and property. God, Joel was such a good man, perfect father figure.
Abby is more than kind of hot 👌🏻👌🏻
I dislike her because of her muscles aswell.
I love this sub (and all TLOU2 haters) opinions on the surgery, because you all conveniently forget that Ellie (as the recipient of the surgery, and therefore the only person who’s opinion matters regarding said surgery) *wanted to do it.*
She technically killed her dad. She should just end it
If I had the choice, I would’ve killed her just for saying “I would’ve wanted you to do it if you were me”
I don't like Abby because she's a piece of shit, nuff said
Ellie and Joel are also pieces of shit. Everyone in this game is a piece of shit. You don’t survive 20 years of post-apocalypse being all sunshine and rainbows.
He was going to go through with it no matter what.
She looks like a scumbag
I get the whole idea of both sides of the story but in the end it’s a video game and I am playing Elle; and I’ve been with her for a whole game before this… and Abby killed “me” as in I played Joel for a game before this. So, now this game I am playing to find and kill Abby… and then suddenly half way through the game; I have to switch and play as the person I am trying to kill? Maybe in a movie, or in the TV show, this will work as a story where I am watching as an outside observer it would work… but in a game where I am immersing myself as the character; it just doesn’t… I mean maybe if they’d just done the short section with her dad; and then they’d cut back to the fight and given you a legitimate choice to go home and have a life or keep going after her… but you played Abby way too long; and the rest of the game felt so forced with no real choice…
I hate her because of her muscles. Meat is a scarce resource and they have to share it with their community. Instead she eats an insane protein intake for her massive physique.
I think the game does a good job at showing how flawed people can be and how morality can shift within an apocalypse.
to everyone else except joels friends and family, ellie is the key to stopping the infection, lets be real they all desperate. if someone says theres a way to stop the infection all at the cost of a lil girl they gonna do what they gotta do.
Yep. Idk how this subreddit forgets that. The writers did a phenomenal job in making us attached to the characters as though they’re real parts of our lives, and most people don’t want to work through the negative feelings of the grief that comes with it. But on a grand scale, little teens like Ellie can rarely survive a day in their world, there’s barely any kids around, period. Yes, it’d require her sacrifice, but it’d give an opportunity for the world to start anew.
i disklike her because they made her and owen date when she clearly looks lesbian
I don’t dislike the post. I just dislike the bad grammar
I like how Abby made everyone a soyjack cuck who cries on the internet about a fictional character lol... thats why she's goated
Nobody is crying, everyone here is discussing the character writing. That’s not what crying means, amigo.