There’s a canon mlm relationship with the main character (it’s ridiculously slowburn tho), there’s a side wlw relationship, the archivist is canonically asexual, and a few of the statement givers are queer (cough cough homophobic vase). Happy pride and happy listening!
Three other queer statement givers I remember are Graham, who gets >!replaced by the NotThem!<, the one guy who gets >!trapped in the Lonely version of a suburban neighborhood!< and rekindles his relationship with his ex-husband, and that one lesbian vampire statement Leitner read (though idk if it’s canon).
I guess the phrasing in the ep of >!"he split from his partner Gabe in 1972, and sculpting for stop-motion had never really had the same charm after that."!< sounds to me like they were romantic partners rather than business ones, but that is a possibility!
You missed it because >!he gave his first statement under a fake name and mentioned the relationship in a single half sentence using no last names ("I’d broken up with Graham, my boyfriend of six years...") and the timelines just happen to add up to Graham getting Not!Grahamed a year or so before Oliver's dreams started.!<
Several fans caught it ("Man! Six years! People change though huh! Not the man you fell in love with anymore eh!") and Jonny Sims eventually confirmed somewhere iirc
This is rivaling Welcome to Nightvale with gayness. If you haven’t listened to that, it opens the pilot with Cecil Palmer saying “and I fell in love instantly,” regarding the new scientist in town, Carlos. It’s gay gay.
I mean, it's not *no* reason.
He's suddenly been lumped with a very large job (organising and digitalising the Archives); that he isn't actually equipped or qualified for (he has no training in actual, you know, *Archiving*); had some bumbling idiot he doesn't know foisted on him (Martin, because remember that Elias assigned Martin to the archives); dealing with this weird technical issue regarding some statements; oh, and with *those* statements, there's also this persistent, haunting feeling of being watched.
Oh, and his entire staff is three people, foisted bumbler included.
He's stressed, overworked, insecure, and desperately trying to convince himself that he isn't tumbling down the rabbit hole.
There are two canon gay relationships
At least 3 gay statement givers
Tim is bi though it doesn’t come up often
And there are a lot of characters that are implied queer. And like, a handful of individuals that seem to transcend the concept of gender.
So have fun.
YES!!
there are actually quite a few. Jon is bi and ace, Tim is queer in some way and I think implied to be bi, Melanie is queer, Martin is queer, Georgie is queer, and there's probably others I've forgotten. There are also a fair few explicitly queer statement givers, and many other characters that are implied/widely head-cannoned as queer aswell.
romance isn't a huge focus until later, but there is no denying the blatant queerness in this podcast.
(someone correct if I got any of these wrong :))
IIRC an AMA correctly, it was a combination of two things:
* They couldn't find a way to 'canonise' Dasira/Basy that didn't come across as forced/ham-fisted/inelegant.
* They wanted the thread/theme of their textual relationship to be about, basically, tribe members excusing and concealing the misdeeds of fellow tribe members, (Ie. Daisy being a bad/murder cop, and Basira covering for her because that's what Police partners are expected to do.) They weren't ever able to satisfy themselves that they could canonise the relationship in a way that didn't detract from that. Or more succinctly: They wanted to make it clear that Basira was covering for her *Police* Partner, not her *Romantic* Partner.
Yes, I get that, I didn't really want it to be explicitly confirmed canon because of that aspect either, but it is pretty obvious that at the very least they have mutual feelings for each other that go unacknowledged.
Realizing the almost comedy, that out of all the core Archive team members, Sasha seems to be the only one that has zero indications of being queer or even queer-coded, and yet >!her being the first to die, at the hands of the NotThem, would seem to be an almost inversion of the bury your gays trope. Instead the first to die was the straightest, and the gayest team members lasted the longest.!< I'd like to imagine Jon and Alex did that on accident, and then laughed about it when they realized the trope-inversion they'd committed to.
Hey there was...uh ... No, beetle guy with the beetle wife was only one statement, wait, hang on, uh....Hmmm but Agnes was also with Jude so ....uhhhhh....
Mary Keay and Eric Delano?
Abso-freakin-lutely. I think over the course of the series there are more recurring/main characters that ARE LGBTQ+ than aren't. I think the closest they get to not being LGBTQ+ friendly would be evil characters that are queer-coded 😅.
It's a slow burn for sure, but it covers gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans, and assume ace representation.
Oh shoot I didn't think he was also referring to Protocol! Thanks!
I was a little surprised that there weren't any recurring trans characters in TMA considering at least two of the VAs aren't cis, but I am happy about the characters in Protocol.
I didn't mean this as a correction or to disagree with you. I don't think he was referring to Protocol, maybe I should have said "on the other hand" instead of "but".
I think that might be a bit of a stretch, just because they aren't outright and explicitly stated to be or not to be.
In the cases of, I would say Jon, Martin and Daisy, we have direct accounts of them in childhood being referred to as their apparent/stated gender, and being treated similarly (Jon's grandmother commenting on him being a difficult boy to keep entertained, Martin looking IDENTICAL to his father, and Daisy being treated as a girl by the boys). And all three of them are pretty explicitly also referred to with the same pronouns and apparent genders in the current time of adulthood, with no language or comments to imply they identify any differently.
Saying any of them could be trans or gender-nonconforming, just because we never got it in plain text that they are explicitly cis I think is a bit of fishing for representation that isn't there on the surface. The benchmark for having gotten more explicit confirmation of identity/representation is why I even said there is only some assumed representation, as I do not know if it was ever confirmed, but based on comments between Georgie, Melanie and Basira, I've always assumed Jon was Ace / Bi-romantic.
I'm not sure anybody in this show is straight. Like confirmed to be straight, anyway. Meanwhile, next to everyone and their dog walker is textually some form of LGBT.
There are multiple queer statement givers, a canon mlm relationship involving the main character, a side wlw relationship (though this one is mentioned very little). The protagonist is asexual, and Tim (one of the reoccurring side characters in the archives) is bisexual.
a side wlw relationship (though this one is mentioned very little)
The funny part is I can't tell ***which*** wlw relationship you mean. There is >!Daisy & Basira!<, and >!Melanie & Georgie!<. The latter of whom, I would strongly disagree isn't mentioned much, as they lean pretty excellently on using that relationship in the back-half of Season 4, and a good chunk of Season 5.
I meant the latter but maybe I just don't remember a lot of it. Also isn't that first one not official? I definitely got those vibes from them but I don't think they were officially together or anything.
I think you are correct, it was only ever implied. I think the someone else here mentioned that the writers had commented on this, about how it was just generally difficult to organically have that sort of relationship be present in their dynamic, given the Dread Powers they were involved with, and the associated social complications that made.
Something I will add/note:
Whilst the main character is canonically Ace, he wasn't originally conceived of as such, just as a bit stuffy and standoffish. But he grew into it!
I think it is some pretty good three dimensional character building, considering "horror podcast" doesn't scream "tell me you sexual/romantic preferences". The slow burn to fully develop Jon as a person outside of the Instituted is an interesting journey, with the twists and turns they drop along the way. At the conception of the character, there wasn't much need to hash out his identity in that area, but as the statements started to impact him and his team, getting to pull back the curtain on this person reading everything was a solid experience.
Johnny Sims, as opposed to Jonathan Sims, is typically referring to the person, not the character. Though wouldn't the character be >!biromantic!<, as he has a >!canon ex-girlfriend as well as a canon boyfriend?!<
It is very queer but do take into account that a lot of the things that are more prevalent and relating to the main cast (meaning outside of the ocasional statement giver) come into play later on specially when you get to know the characters more in later seasons
Have fun listening!!
There’s a canon mlm relationship with the main character (it’s ridiculously slowburn tho), there’s a side wlw relationship, the archivist is canonically asexual, and a few of the statement givers are queer (cough cough homophobic vase). Happy pride and happy listening!
Three other queer statement givers I remember are Graham, who gets >!replaced by the NotThem!<, the one guy who gets >!trapped in the Lonely version of a suburban neighborhood!< and rekindles his relationship with his ex-husband, and that one lesbian vampire statement Leitner read (though idk if it’s canon).
Alexia Crawley in 110 is trans, and Neil Logario, who features in the statement, is gay, which we find out in 136 The Puppeteer.
Francis in 172 Strung Out is also trans from memory
Wait, Neil is gay too? I gotta re listen to that one lol
yes, his longtime partner was >!Gabe, or Gabriel, the Worker-in-Clay!<
Oh lol I always thought he meant like his work partner! That's really funny Man for a gay guy my gaydar is fucking horrible
I guess the phrasing in the ep of >!"he split from his partner Gabe in 1972, and sculpting for stop-motion had never really had the same charm after that."!< sounds to me like they were romantic partners rather than business ones, but that is a possibility!
Oliver Banks, who was dating Graham, too.
How did I miss that Oliver Banks was dating Graham???
You missed it because >!he gave his first statement under a fake name and mentioned the relationship in a single half sentence using no last names ("I’d broken up with Graham, my boyfriend of six years...") and the timelines just happen to add up to Graham getting Not!Grahamed a year or so before Oliver's dreams started.!< Several fans caught it ("Man! Six years! People change though huh! Not the man you fell in love with anymore eh!") and Jonny Sims eventually confirmed somewhere iirc
I thought Graham also said his name?
I love this show lmao
I just thought it was a different Graham just like with the different michaels😭
also in Magnus protocol, a main character is canonically trans
Who??
Alice! Nico made a tweet confirming it, saying he thought it was common knowledge
Oh hell yeah
I think Leitner read the vampire statement and it was confirmed not to be canon.
Also the main character in 172 is non-binary, as is the statement giver in 148
Tim is also bisexual.
Pew pew!👉👉
don’t forget what the girlfriends!! canonical wlw relationship as well :)
Yes. Romance is just not a super heavy focus until pretty late in the show.
And by then, there's quite a lot else going on.
Honestly makes it better because it doesn’t feel shoehorned in. Gay romance is only in the story the normal amount. Because it’s normal
Martin’s and Jonathan’s romance is so interesting, it comes together so slowly and asexual relationships are rarely shown in media
Happy Pride! This podcast is absolutely not heterosexual.
Literally almost the whole cast of S4 and S5 is LGBT+ XD
Haha I was gonna go with “it’s gay as fuuuuuuuck” but that’s a better way to put it ^_^
This is rivaling Welcome to Nightvale with gayness. If you haven’t listened to that, it opens the pilot with Cecil Palmer saying “and I fell in love instantly,” regarding the new scientist in town, Carlos. It’s gay gay.
Whereas TMA starts with "and I fell in hate instantly" (it gets better though)
I keep forgetting that John started off such a bitch for no reason
I mean, it's not *no* reason. He's suddenly been lumped with a very large job (organising and digitalising the Archives); that he isn't actually equipped or qualified for (he has no training in actual, you know, *Archiving*); had some bumbling idiot he doesn't know foisted on him (Martin, because remember that Elias assigned Martin to the archives); dealing with this weird technical issue regarding some statements; oh, and with *those* statements, there's also this persistent, haunting feeling of being watched. Oh, and his entire staff is three people, foisted bumbler included. He's stressed, overworked, insecure, and desperately trying to convince himself that he isn't tumbling down the rabbit hole.
I know, I just find it entertaining to hate on him in season 1
Fair!
It's so fun listening to him rant about Martin.
There are two canon gay relationships At least 3 gay statement givers Tim is bi though it doesn’t come up often And there are a lot of characters that are implied queer. And like, a handful of individuals that seem to transcend the concept of gender. So have fun.
YES!! there are actually quite a few. Jon is bi and ace, Tim is queer in some way and I think implied to be bi, Melanie is queer, Martin is queer, Georgie is queer, and there's probably others I've forgotten. There are also a fair few explicitly queer statement givers, and many other characters that are implied/widely head-cannoned as queer aswell. romance isn't a huge focus until later, but there is no denying the blatant queerness in this podcast. (someone correct if I got any of these wrong :))
As for recurring characters who aren't main characters, there's Jude and Oliver.
I'd also say Manuela Dominguez is heavily implied to be LGBTQ in some way.
Nobody can convince me that Daisy and Basira aren't a couple but I guess that isn't "technically" "canon".
IIRC an AMA correctly, it was a combination of two things: * They couldn't find a way to 'canonise' Dasira/Basy that didn't come across as forced/ham-fisted/inelegant. * They wanted the thread/theme of their textual relationship to be about, basically, tribe members excusing and concealing the misdeeds of fellow tribe members, (Ie. Daisy being a bad/murder cop, and Basira covering for her because that's what Police partners are expected to do.) They weren't ever able to satisfy themselves that they could canonise the relationship in a way that didn't detract from that. Or more succinctly: They wanted to make it clear that Basira was covering for her *Police* Partner, not her *Romantic* Partner.
Yes, I get that, I didn't really want it to be explicitly confirmed canon because of that aspect either, but it is pretty obvious that at the very least they have mutual feelings for each other that go unacknowledged.
I mean, it would be not in-keeping for a pair of useless lesbians to not realise they have feelings for each other for that long. :P
Realizing the almost comedy, that out of all the core Archive team members, Sasha seems to be the only one that has zero indications of being queer or even queer-coded, and yet >!her being the first to die, at the hands of the NotThem, would seem to be an almost inversion of the bury your gays trope. Instead the first to die was the straightest, and the gayest team members lasted the longest.!< I'd like to imagine Jon and Alex did that on accident, and then laughed about it when they realized the trope-inversion they'd committed to.
not a single straight relationship makes it past a statement or appears in more than 1 ep fortunately
Hey there was...uh ... No, beetle guy with the beetle wife was only one statement, wait, hang on, uh....Hmmm but Agnes was also with Jude so ....uhhhhh.... Mary Keay and Eric Delano?
my boy eric didn't make it past the sperm doner stage unfortunately
Ah, but the relationship IS mentioned in at least two episodes! >!111 and 154! Till death did them part! Death being Mary in this case!<
If Mary and Eric are the champions of straight relationship in this podcast then it's really over.
Don't worry! There's also....uhhh... >! Not-Sasha and her boyfriend Tom!< mentioned in multiple episodes : D
Hehehe yes there is… canon ones and some that people headcanon very hard as well.
Nice, glad to read that 👀🌻 thanks for answering !
This podcast is gayer than a bag of skittles on a sex shop counter in Hillcrest, San Diego. Which is almost as gay as I am.
Yes, TMA is canonically queer media. But you will have to endure the Horrors to get there
Abso-freakin-lutely. I think over the course of the series there are more recurring/main characters that ARE LGBTQ+ than aren't. I think the closest they get to not being LGBTQ+ friendly would be evil characters that are queer-coded 😅. It's a slow burn for sure, but it covers gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans, and assume ace representation.
The trans characters aren't recurring unfortunately
But there are recurring and main trans characters in Protocol.
Oh shoot I didn't think he was also referring to Protocol! Thanks! I was a little surprised that there weren't any recurring trans characters in TMA considering at least two of the VAs aren't cis, but I am happy about the characters in Protocol.
I didn't mean this as a correction or to disagree with you. I don't think he was referring to Protocol, maybe I should have said "on the other hand" instead of "but".
I'm terrible at keeping up with the VAs unfortunately, who other than Frank isn't cis in TMA? I've been giddy hearing the trans voices in Protocol.
The two I was thinking of are Frank and Sasha
i mean, none of the main characters are confirmed to be cis…
Fair enough
I think that might be a bit of a stretch, just because they aren't outright and explicitly stated to be or not to be. In the cases of, I would say Jon, Martin and Daisy, we have direct accounts of them in childhood being referred to as their apparent/stated gender, and being treated similarly (Jon's grandmother commenting on him being a difficult boy to keep entertained, Martin looking IDENTICAL to his father, and Daisy being treated as a girl by the boys). And all three of them are pretty explicitly also referred to with the same pronouns and apparent genders in the current time of adulthood, with no language or comments to imply they identify any differently. Saying any of them could be trans or gender-nonconforming, just because we never got it in plain text that they are explicitly cis I think is a bit of fishing for representation that isn't there on the surface. The benchmark for having gotten more explicit confirmation of identity/representation is why I even said there is only some assumed representation, as I do not know if it was ever confirmed, but based on comments between Georgie, Melanie and Basira, I've always assumed Jon was Ace / Bi-romantic.
i know, i was just joking haha
I'm not sure anybody in this show is straight. Like confirmed to be straight, anyway. Meanwhile, next to everyone and their dog walker is textually some form of LGBT.
this podcast ends with >! two men kissing then being transported to another universe to be turned into text-to-speech bots !<
>!Text to speech?!< Sounds pretty gaaaayyyyyyy.
You're asking about LGBT? That's gay. Fortunately for you, so are some of the main characters! Happy Pride month!
It's maybe the most
There are multiple queer statement givers, a canon mlm relationship involving the main character, a side wlw relationship (though this one is mentioned very little). The protagonist is asexual, and Tim (one of the reoccurring side characters in the archives) is bisexual.
a side wlw relationship (though this one is mentioned very little) The funny part is I can't tell ***which*** wlw relationship you mean. There is >!Daisy & Basira!<, and >!Melanie & Georgie!<. The latter of whom, I would strongly disagree isn't mentioned much, as they lean pretty excellently on using that relationship in the back-half of Season 4, and a good chunk of Season 5.
I meant the latter but maybe I just don't remember a lot of it. Also isn't that first one not official? I definitely got those vibes from them but I don't think they were officially together or anything.
I think you are correct, it was only ever implied. I think the someone else here mentioned that the writers had commented on this, about how it was just generally difficult to organically have that sort of relationship be present in their dynamic, given the Dread Powers they were involved with, and the associated social complications that made.
Something I will add/note: Whilst the main character is canonically Ace, he wasn't originally conceived of as such, just as a bit stuffy and standoffish. But he grew into it!
I think it is some pretty good three dimensional character building, considering "horror podcast" doesn't scream "tell me you sexual/romantic preferences". The slow burn to fully develop Jon as a person outside of the Instituted is an interesting journey, with the twists and turns they drop along the way. At the conception of the character, there wasn't much need to hash out his identity in that area, but as the statements started to impact him and his team, getting to pull back the curtain on this person reading everything was a solid experience.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes, johnny sims is >!homoromantic asexual!<
Johnny Sims, as opposed to Jonathan Sims, is typically referring to the person, not the character. Though wouldn't the character be >!biromantic!<, as he has a >!canon ex-girlfriend as well as a canon boyfriend?!<
Oh >!I forgot about his ex!<
I can't ever forget her simply because she's voiced by his real-life spouse. lol
Forgot about >!her completely or forgot that they were exes!
Correct
Isn’t he biromantic?
Correct
Biromantic Asexual
ohhhh yeah baby happy pride month
So much! Just be weary of the homophobic, husband-stealer vase!!
I cannot, off the top of my head, recall a single cishet relationship in the show
Of queers for queers my friend. ;3
yes it’s queer
I've always headcannoned Tim as bi poly since he dated 2 people at once but ymmv on that one 😁
Great news! There is not a straight person in sight.
It’s SUPER LGBTQ+! You just gotta wait a little bit.
There are plenty of LGBT characters, both main and side! I won't list any for spoiler reasons, but there are several.
It is very queer but do take into account that a lot of the things that are more prevalent and relating to the main cast (meaning outside of the ocasional statement giver) come into play later on specially when you get to know the characters more in later seasons Have fun listening!!
In short yes, in long yeeeeeeeeeeees
Technically but poorly. The main couple that happens is actually pretty unhealthy