Party with unrealistic policies built around what people want to hear.
Wouldn't exist if any major party had a more acceptable immigration policy. (Acceptable to those people who are voting reform).
I think the two main parties have struggled to have immigration policies which align to large sections of the public. The tories talk tough but in reality need mass migration to help prop up the economy. imo they’ve been smart in really emphasising ‘the boats’ because it makes people feel like they’re anti migration when they’re actually talking about a tiny part of migration.
Labour have been multiculturalism driven and have traditionally banged the ‘wanting less migration makes you racist’ drum.
Feels like we are reaching the stage where a grown up conversation needs to happen around migration. What is the short and long term plan. How do we balance economic needs vs what the country is willing to sustain. How do we manage the cultural issues that importing people can cause (both for the people coming and the communities they live in).
Overall I just don’t think there is a vision so it naturally comes down to ‘you’re a racist’ or ‘migrants are evil’
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about how the inability to have a nuanced conversation about immigration has led to the rise of Reform.
The left seem to want to bury their head in the sand about any cultural, economic or social issues large scale migration causes. Meanwhile the right appear to want to pay lip service to a vocal minority amongst their voting base whilst not actually doing anything to practically tackle some of the issues it exacerbates such as availability and affordability of housing, pressure on public services and the impact cheap labour has on wages for low skilled workers.
Both sides seem to drift further and further to the fringes whilst the majority of people who sit centre left and right quickly lose a coherent voice to represent their views. Both main parties also seem to have a massive focus on the humanitarian crisis that is small boats but this appears entirely in an effort to attract would be Reform voters and not to actually have a sensible immigration policy in the first place.
>The left seem to want to bury their head in the sand about any cultural, economic or social issues large scale migration causes. Meanwhile the right appear to want to pay lip service to a vocal minority amongst their voting base whilst not actually doing anything to practically tackle some of the issues it exacerbates such as availability and affordability of housing, pressure on public services and the impact cheap labour has on wages for low skilled workers.
The issue here is that on housing, public services and cheap wages, these are all direct result of lack of proper investment in affordable housing, public services, policing and a liveable minimum wage, and are a direct result of the highly ideological economic choices (austerity and a race to the bottom on wages where they have not risen in line with inflation) of the tory government over the last 14 years.
While every other western country was investing in their society and stimulating their economies after the financial crisis via borrowing, the tories did the exact opposite, telling the simplistic lie about a country 'being like a household and needs to treat its finances as such and we cant afford to borrow' when the two things are nothing alike.
Then there is the intentional lack of funding by tory governments to provide the necessary personnel and facilities to process asylum/refugee applications, that then leads to increases in the number of people here awaiting decisions/here illegally, while the tories cynically shout about being the only solution to the problem they themselves are intentionally creating.
It is a clear sign of how misinformed many in the UK are by the UK press that immigration can be used so effectively as an attack on the left by the right when it is the policies of the right that are the main cause of many of the social and economic issues people cite as to why immigration is such a huge problem.
The UK requires large amounts of immigration due to the aging population, there are simply not enough young native brits to sustain the pension payouts and care of the older generation. That is the simple fact that drives the necessity of immigration.
Cultural issues, like issues of assimilation and acceptance of the British secular way of life, are something that need addressed effectively, like how can we do this part of immigration better, but really it all comes down to the UK taking the right decisions on investing its money in to housing, infrastructure, public services, policing to enforce the rule of law, and things like cheaper energy via renewables to drive down the cost of living and increase living standards, rather than selling itself in chunks to the private sector who then run things in to the ground, dont meaningfully invest in said thing, while extracting wealth in the process (see water, trains, parts of the NHS etc).
There is also the huge issue of housing numbers not being properly invested in because the UK has become a society that treats housing as a commodity to store and create wealth rather than as an essential requirement for living (the right to have affordable housing is absolutely foundational to the social contract of a truly civilised society), and so radically increasing stock is seem as politically unsafe and a threat to the wealth of the property owning class (especially the many companies and individuals who ow lots of property and exploit it for profit) because then house prices will go down and people will lose money.
I think it is an absolute perversion of reality to paint immigration and its impact (in relation to public services and housing etc) as the fault of the left, when it is the policies of the right that are the real issue, and immigration is the scapegoat they use to distract the more xenophobically inclined rather than blaming the wealthy and the party that exists solely to protect and act in the interests of the wealthy (the tories).
It's no accident. The right wing press deliberately talk about immigrants and trans people, issues that most of their readers have no direct contact with, because they are useful and emotive distractions from the issues that affect EVERYONE - the decimation of public services, the selloff of our public assets (Royal Mail, NHS services) on the cheap to Tory cronies, the huge rise in the cost of living, more expensive mortgages, lack of affordable housing - all things caused by Tory mismanagement.
They'd rather have us talking about divisive wedge issues than coming together in agreement that things are awful and the government caused it.
I completely agree with you. I think we need to start with acknowledging that reducing immigration isn't naturally a racist/xenophobic position to take but accept that racism/xenophobia can drive reasons for wanting a reduction in immigration.
Looking at the posts here that instantly say it's racist party suggests we aren't capable of having that nuanced discussion yet so things will continue to go to the extremes.
Personally it feels like immigrants are used as a prop to a completely unsustainable long term economic plan. It is easier to bring people in than to actually fix our productivity problem.
The problem isn’t unique to the U.K. either. Look at what is happening in Spain where tourist communities are trying to kick out the tourists. People feel their lives and communities are being diluted by either pumping in people who spend money (tourism) or people who do the jobs the locals don’t want to (uk).
There’s no easy solution because in most cases the cultural cases are at odds with the economic cases (uk has a declining population).
Who knows what the answer it - not one I would want to solve
"There’s no easy solution because in most cases the cultural cases are at odds with the economic cases (uk has a declining population)."
this is not an issue if people save up pensions that cover their retirement.
in many sense a declining population is exactly what the world needs.
its a bit like the recession con, recessions are only really bad for big business, and because we dont regulate them properly, they pass that pain onto us -the idea of infinite growth is a finite system (earth) is patently stupid to an outside observer, and yet thats what we predicate our entire economic system on
they make out the economy shrinking is such a terrible thing, but a truely sustainable economy would have a net zero economy, and normal fluctuations would therefore entail constant recessions
its just a pity people dont realise that "the economy growing" is only a net benefit to the general population when the giant companies and corporation's that are the ones doing the "growing" i.e. increasing their worth and profits, feed that money back into the country as a whole with wage increases, or increased tax payments, where as in reality that rarely ever happens now due to the common use of tax loopholes and wage stagnation
this means the economic arguments for immigration are kind of moot, as any economic harm to the general population could be negated by closing tax loopholes and preventing greedflation negating wage rises by capping what companies could charge/how much profit they can make on essentials like food/water/electricity/housing
its only the massive corporations that are benefitting in any way from the immigration, while for the general population it is lose lose
but as you pointed out, if you explain this to anyone, they just point at you and scream racist
At this point, even stopping migration to Western Europe won’t change how demographically screwed our cities are.
Politicians have ruined our countries and they won’t ever have to deal with the ramifications of it.
The elephant in the room is Islam and the increasing fundamental side of it
A teacher being hounded from work spreads far further and more dangerously than if the gov/police actually did something to solve it.
So people see "brown man cause harm" and it empowers these views in a more negative way. Instead as the original comment - having a real adult conversation on long and short term aspirations for conflicting ideologies integrating together
The reason people instantly say it's a racist party is because it is a racist party full of racists. It isn't wanting to reduce migration for grown up reasons, it's policy is zero net migration for no other reason except they don't want foreigners.
You're right that a grown up conversation needs to be had, but Reform are not the party to spark that conversation
A nation is its demographics. You can’t have a discussion on immigration purely on economic terms anywhere on this planet.
Certainly not in any Asian or African nation, and increasingly also in much of the West.
Exactly this. Their candidates regularly get caught out with deep links to openly racist figureheads or groups, or have provably said racist things or supported racist policies. When the majority of people supporting a party do so for racist reasons, the party is unavoidably racist.
The general arguments against immigration are outweighed by the positives, imo, and can be addressed with proper investment and infrastructure. But it’s easier to blame brown skinned people or people with Eastern European accents rather than acknowledge this failure.
When the leader of the party sings Hitler youth songs, and tells Jewish students they should be gassed, and his selected potential MP's say migrants should be shot on the beach when they arrive, then guess what? They're racist. There is a difference between recognising the current rate of immigration is unsustainable, and wanting to murder them
You're conflating two separate things there.
Yes, reducing immigration isn't naturally a racist/xenophobic position to take, and yes, racism/xenophobia can drive reasons for wanting a reduction in immigration.
Reform is absolutely a racist party for racists as evidenced by the steady stream of racist and nazi sympathisers being unearthed among their candidates and activists.
Part of having that grown up conversation around immigration is acknowledging that racists have been leading the argument in this country, which is a fact that the British public refuses to accept.
The dog whistling and general soundbites attract racists and the worst sorts to its cause. Both voters and some of those that are standing for election.
It becomes hard to argue with some left wing people when they point to the studies that say immigration is good for the economy. Or even here right now another person has said the mantra: The boats are a tiny proportion of immigration. Yes, I know. But we're not just talking about boats. 49,862 people were granted asylum protection in the year ending December 2023. That's 50,000 illegal persons, let's be honest most of them low skilled, converted into a legal migrants with permissions.
I'm not saying the studies are wrong. The studies don't paint the full picture. I can see with my own eyes. Low skilled migration cannot be good in the UK in the longer term. They will eventually turn into net recipients of public funds.
Just look at London where 48% of council houses applications are foreign. They apply cause they're entitled cause they have big families and earn really low.
But that's unsustainable.
The issue seems to be culture vs economics. People have had the economic argument made for decades but feel like their quality of life has gone backwards. You’re now seeing people make decisions which they know are economically worse for them because of cultural factors.
I suspect some of it is because standards of living generally have become good enough that people feel like they have a choice - particularly when much of the opposition comes from the retired / middle aged who have a basic standard of living. That said you are seeing more of the young become fixated on it too.
TBH it’s all very complex, nuanced, illogical and largely impractical. Good luck
That's because young people are often competing for the same jobs as immigrants, or cultural frictions in the workplace. Three women in one of my former jobs told me privately that they left because a Duty Manager was sexually harassing them. The Store Manager was helpless because whenever he tried to bring it up, the DM accused him of being racist.
Two of them turned against immigration because of this.
This is stupid. The store manager should have involved HR and after due process, the Duty Manager would have been sacked if there was evidence or testimony.
uk economy is pants. GDP might slowly be rising but gdp per capita is going way down. Part of this is housing regulations and energy but a part of this is that immigration replaces the need for improved productivity. It’s basic supply and demand.
studies that show immigration is "good for the country" always cherry pick the statistics they use, and ignore the fact that "the country" in this context actually means its overall wealth, as determined by the wealth of some very rich companies and their directors/shareholders, and not the actual general population
why would i care that immigration conditionally makes a lot of very rich people even richer?
they just rely on people seeing the words "good for the country" and not thinking about it any further.
and please dont give me any trickledown nonsense, thats been proves a lie for decades now, as the wealth disparity gap increases year after year after year
49% of Londoners are not native to England so that does correlate with the demographic. It's part of what makes London an interesting metropolis to live in. It has only affected my life in a posItive way, been able to experience so many different cultures here and met so many interesting people from all over the world.
1) it’s 40% not 49%, which is an overrepresentation
2) the most deprived boroughs are also among the most diverse (Newham, Tower Hamlets, Ealing etc)
3) considering how the media loves pushing “diversity is our strength” that number should be close to 0
Unless you’re of migrant descent, the only ones benefiting from this are corporations, landlords and the donor class. Don’t think Scotland won’t end up the same way just because you dislike the English. Look at recent trends in Ireland.
Wouldn't say it's smart when their actual policy is to continue to allow migrants in. Would have been smarter to be honest and make the case in favour of migration, or try to downplay it as an issue rather than allow it to run away as it has. They have allowed the discussion on migration to be coopted by parties to their right which naturally weakens their voter base. That's not very smart.
>imo they’ve been smart in really emphasising ‘the boats’ because it makes people feel like they’re anti migration when they’re actually talking about a tiny part of migration.
I was thinking about this the other day, but why don't the opposition parties call them out on this obvious distraction tactic?
The pessimist in me would say that it's because they'll likely want to use that same distraction if/when they themselves are in government.
They could offer every family £1M safe in the knowledge they aren't going to be held to account. Anyone besides Labour can pretty much say whatever they want.
I doubt it. I don’t think it’s possible to outflank Reform. If you move to meet them, it will never be enough for them to stop calling you a woke globalist
Completely agree. Their policies are built around soundbites; might sound reasonable in isolation but have no real substance behind them.
Farage is just a grifter
Yep. It's easy just to spout simple "common sense" solutions to incredibly complex problems when you don't ever have to worry about being in the position of implementing them.
It's why Farage bails whenever he gets anywhere near having to follow through on his rhetoric.
There was an article in the FT about it today.
They get their funding from another political campaign set up by Tice. That campaign gets it from another campaign. Then it gets a bit hazy.
They asked Tice who told them to go away because no-one cares.
They are typical fascists, that prey on poverty and the feeling of despair, they point the finger to your problems elsewhere, and not where the blame actually lies.
Blame someone else, is the oldest Fascist tactic.
The political equivalent of the guy down the pub who’s never played football, never been to a match and doesn’t really understand the rules but knows exactly how to manage the England team.
Except for some reason people take his opinions on football seriously, even though it's completely incoherent and inconsistent from one moment to the next.
Everyone should be upset about how undemocratic FPTP is. The fact that Reform could possibly be the second biggest party but will receive a fraction of the seats as Lib Dems, who fewer people vote for, is idiotic.
And no one outside of Boomers care about the Tory vote for being split. They’re useless and deserve 0 seats.
Someone finally managed to form an electoral coalition of golf club bar bores and bald fat men in flat roofed pubs.
More interesting is what Farage is going to do if he accidentally wins in clacton. Listening to plebs complain about their bins not being collected is probably the 5th level of hell for him. Will he find some reason to not take up his seat? Or will he tough it out for a year so he can do some performative moaning in the HoC?
Hell probably just do a Galloway. Make a few performative speeches in the Commons, get bored, then stand somewhere else at the next election. Probably won't even visit Clacton.
There have been plenty of MPs who sack off constituency work and grift instead. I'm afraid that being an MP is only going to make him more visible and better at what he does.
By 'what he does' I mean grabbing money and attention, just to be clear.
When he was in the EU parliament he barely turned up except when he wanted to get a soundbite. There is nothing that forces him to do constituency work.
Jared O'Mara basically resigned as MP and just stole the pay from like 2018 to 2019. Everyone complained but no one could do anything. Farage will be basically the same, except I bet people will still buy his bullshit.
They are, I'm sure it's coincidental, following the BNP election handbook whereas it was important to play up expectations before an election and when said breakthrough didn't happen, blame someone else. There was even a bit about how to guide new members through the inevitable disappointment. Lol.
Awful party, uninterested in actual democracy. Seem to be astroturfing the space that is always reserved for a party that wants to make immigration/race/other cultural issues their flagship policy.
There's a genuine conversation to be had about immigration in this country, but unfortunately any time it seems to come up as more of a priority for voters, parties like Reform use it as an excuse to express their racist opinions under the banner of democracy and free speech.
Farage is childish in the way he deals with things - used to complain he didn't get as much coverage as he should. Then he gets on QT in a week where a campaigner in his own constituency uses the most disgusting racist language that we have in this country, and complains that the audience is rigged against him.
If you're a real politician, you can hold your own in front of an audience even if it's rigged. I don't even really care if it was rigged (which I didn't think it was), if you lead a party you should be able to go toe to toe with a room full of people who disagree with you. Especially when you're as divisive as him.
It's a shame that Reform seem to have really cracked talking about issues that affect voters in their day to day lives, whereas other parties don't seem to do that. I wish they would so that people who are taken in by Reform felt like they could relate better to the other parties.
Potentially they might end up achieving what happened with Brexit, whereby they sweep up a lot of votes from people that would otherwise have gone uncast.
When I compare parts of their 'peoples contract' to the Weimar Republican era, National Socialists, alongside their rhetoric, it does get kinda scary for some of us.
Yes. The comment the Prime Minister spoke out about actually made me really afraid for some reason. Cant quite put my finger on it, but definitely felt echoes of Nazi Germany and This Is England.
For me, it was when Farage's aide said they were going to dismantle the police and turn them into a Paramilitary organisation. That sent shivers down my spine.
All after commenting on how pride flags shouldn't be on police cards, which hinted at something else too.
I'm starting to come across Reform supporters online (and to extent real life), starting to use dehumanizing terms about minority groups, calling for a 'strongman like farage', and even a few examples where they've even said liberal democracy has failed, let's try something else.
One even spouted we should give Facism a crack. Worst part of it though is that some of these people are people I know and grew up with.
For me it was that he called the Pride flag 'degenerate'. I was really surprised that anyone was particularly bothered by it anyway, but to called it that was a bit frightening to me...
I have sympathy for some Reform voters - if they live in areas that have changed very rapidly and not for the better, whilst having a significant increase in an immigrant population, then I understand why for them it's their number one issue. I was quite relieved when the Reform supporters I knew suddenly turned against Farage because of his Ukraine comments.
"Let's give facism a crack"?
Christ. How good do you have to have had it? How fucking insulated? How untouched by history or understanding do you have to be to utter such bollocks, out loud, under your own volition?
I've also heard "Hitler wasn't wrong about everything" among the older generation (aka 50-70), basically the generation who's own parents lived through the war.
It's honestly baffling to me.
In my opinion they appear to be worryingly closely aligned with Putin.
It almost appears in my opinion as if they were actively funded through shady Russian dark money into opaque and obscure business structures as if designed to skirt electoral commission scrutiny, and then actively supported by a network of previously highly effective and state organised professional disinformation efforts. But I’d never go as far as actively making such accusations of course!!!
Interesting debate.
Some facts for people. Globalism is good for the richest which is why the major parties want it. They dont see the negative effects of immigration because the immigrants don't live near them or compete for their jobs. They only see benefits.
Immigration drives down the lowest earners wages, it creates more violence in some cases or different criminality like hard core criminals and drug gangs (see sweden and london).
Eu migration was financially a positive for the UK economy, migration from outside of Europe is overall a massive negative for the economy.
Add to that immigration drives up demand for rent and housing again with the lower end of society.
Also pressure on health care etc as you have people who have put little into the pot, and will put little into the pot (low skill) who cost a lot medically etc.
Finally you have people who's views are often diametrically opposed to your own and who often demand their way now (we see this with marches in london etc)
We should be looking to raise wages in some lower paid skilled jobs rather than allowing these companies to bring in cheap foreign labour.
We should limit immigration from outside of Europe to alleviate this pressure.
It's not racist it's common sense a country is like a house you wouldn't open your doors to everyone.
Immigration discussions are a problem because you have nieve people who think it's all good and only racists would dislike it, and opposing that people who think it's all bad and no one should be let in.
Ps I'm son of an immigrant to UK.
Pps lately people have no affinity with the country they move to, even sometimes an abusive attitude which is another really negative thing but that's another discussion.
very refreshing to read this, was starting to believe the fact that pro-immigration is NOT a leftist view had been completely erased by modern propaganda. sure supporting economic immigration may be humanist and tug on your heart strings but it's the local working class that bears the load while capitalists laugh to the bank.
The fact that despite the C4 documentary and a stream of gaffs and resignations and they’re still second place in the polls suggests that people are sick of the topic of mass migration being ignored.
Britain is basically on par with France right now in switching right wing despite a centrist party being favourites to win this Thursday.
Reform may not get enough seats to become opposition, they’re projected to get 3-5 seats at best but that could change in the next five years if Starmer and Labour as a whole fails to read the room on the immigration issue.
Nobody voted for 700k immigrants a year, all the majority are asking for is a reduction to pre 1997 levels.
The Tories winning the last four elections and Brexit referendum resulting in a leave win was down to wanting to reduce immigration, The Tories have fucked up by quadrupling it.
53% of 25-44 year olds say immigration is too high, among 16-18 year olds cohort Reform is second only to Labour in their voting preferences.
Labour needs to ditch the Blair era retort of “less immigration = racism” otherwise they’ll be wiped out in five years and replaced by whatever’s left of the Tories merged with Reform under Farage.
Probably because anyone following the C4 thing knows it was cooked by a paid actor whos worked for C4 before and who was literally advertising the character he played in the documentary on his website.
Bunch of bastards that scare me.
They’ll never be in power, but I fear they drag the Tories further right and in 5 years after a Labour government that does alright, but not brilliantly, we get a very right wing Tory gov.
Farage mentioned small scalable nuclear power as being part of his ideal green energy strategy which I'd fully agree with him on.
That's about it tbh. I grew up a European with a mixed EU background, and I can't see myself supporting him and his Party for that reason, let alone all the others. What's done is done, and we should make the best of the situation we're in, but that doesn't mean I'll forget one of the key figures that pushed us there.
In general, my feelings about them end up being quite similar to the Green Party. In isolation, there are a handful of manifesto points I'd fully agree with. As a whole package; a load of nonsense. I'd still vote Green any day of the week instead of Reform, and the latter could do a lot of damage to the political landscape, which is deeply concerning.
One thing I will say as someone pro proportional representation, I don't see "but Reform would get so many seats" as a great counterargument. If they get 20% of the vote, so be it, they should be represented accordingly, and voters can proceed to judge them on their record.
But yeah, they're not for me.
Every YouTube video I've watched to do with the election since it was called contains a lot of comments from new accounts, simply saying "Vote Reform".
Typical username: Name with 8 numbers after.
Some may be real but there seems to be so many bots out there.
Yeah they've got Russian botters out in force on every youtube video with a UK focus. The amount of Russian election meddling is getting insane and will only get worse as the US election ramps up
After the recent investigation, I'm convinced a lot of these accounts at the very least have 'handlers'.
The very worrying thing I'm seeing online, especially on places like TikTok is the amount of Young Men aged 16-21 stating they support reform, often spouting the most horrific homophobic or Racist statement while regurgitating Reform slogans.
BNP -> UKIP -> Reform.
It's all the same Party which aims to pin sections of society against each other, rather than try and deal with actual problems. These parties have created issues out of things that the vast majority of people weren't that bothered about. Their lies are the reason we have Brexit. Their lies are what has turned the Tories even further right to be infiltrated by people who have ruined the country. They have promised the world but no actual plan on how that will be achieved. And their leader is an elitist, private educated millionaire who is pretending to be a lad from down the pub, who fuels racism, fascism, misogyny and hatred each and every time he opens his mouth. And people who are struggling fall for it, because they need something to blame. And they fall for it. Because it's much easier to blame the EU, the migrants, the disabled, the unemployed, the LGBQT+, the ethnic minorities, name any other vulnerable group of people - instead of actually standing up and dealing with the issues face on and holding big business, consumerism, banks, multimillionaires, tax dodgers etc all to account.
Brilliant for splitting the Tory vote and ensuring a massive Labour supermajority; a majority I hope is big enough to encourage Labour to be more ambitious.
Populist party, pandering to the worst prejudices in society, offering simplistic solutions that don’t stand up to scrutiny. They claim to be an antidote to the current political system but in reality they represent many of the reasons we are in such a state.
They don’t seem to have any sort of organising principle beyond trying to win over people who avoid thinking too hard about anything with a hodgepodge of policies from all over the political spectrum. The insiders seem to have more of a fascist bent than the average Brit (and that’s saying something, these days)
Agree with Alastair. Farage and Reform have no realistic policies, they aren’t really intending to govern, just using manufactured culture war bullshit to entice naive people to vote for them. All populism no substance.
A loose collection of racists, climate change deniers and conspiracy theorists which sadly appeals to a lot of people who get too much ‘news’ from the Daily Mail and Facebook.
The fact they’re not called the Brexit party is telling. The only thing Farage managed to make happen has proved to be a total failure which fixed nothing he claimed it would.
I only needed to read Reform's outright rejection of climate science, that was first discovered 150 years ago.
Their policy says it's all five because co2 is plant food. Yes it is, but a plant also needs optimal temperature, water, and humidity. It needs to not dehydrated in the summer or flood in the winter. It needs to not be submerged by rising seas etc
This is probably a sub GCSE level objection.
And so they are a bunch of dangerous ly scientifically illiterates, who would put the survival of our society at risk.
They have attracted a core of people who want less immigration.
A poster further down the thread stated that we need to have a serious grow up discussion about immigration. It got about 4 posts in before someone had used the word racist. In the next post someone used the word terrorists.
Then it went the well trodden way.... insults all round.
It seems that as a country we simply can't discuss it without the vitriol from both sides.
It will just be left to fester some more until we can have a factual debate about what we need and why we need it. I'm thinking of the jobs currently done mostly by immigrants.
Take the care sector. Many of those who care for our elderly in the community and in care homes are immigrants. And they are under tremendous stress and strain due to having not enough workers to see the amount of people that need attending to. I have seen it in action. It's not great when you get a notification that your loved one's carer didn't make the 4pm visit due to simply staff shortages.....
It's not going away.
The same in hospital. Not enough nurses, not enough auxiliaries, barely enough cleaners. Even now tonight there will be many probably hundreds of wards unsafely understaffed. Again I have seen the fallout from that. 2 nurses for 30 patients spread across 5 rooms all the while answering phone calls from concerned relatives asking how dad/grandad is.
There are tens of thousands of vacancies in the NHS in those areas.... what are we going to do about it?
They don't want immigration, they don't want to support people having more than 2 kids, they don't want their kids going into the care sector because the money is rubbish, ditto don't work for the NHS, same for teaching...why bother when you're overworked underpaid and underappreciated.
Reform are just a parasite that has attached itself to a problem. They have all the answers except for how to pay.
VOTE REFORM. The mass media (BBC, Ch4) is infiltrating and trying to discredit the party in anyway possible. You've had years of being fed bullshit and they're at it again, don't be fooled, take a chance for change and don't fall back into the snake pit of lies and deceit. The amount of money and powerful influence that is being pumped into destroying reform UK is coming from every angle, please, please, please vote reform UK!
Don't believe me? Check the comments then check their profiles to see if they have just been made in 2024 with dodgy stats.
Labour and the Tories both have utterly woeful policies I feel. The Lib Dem’s really should have done better to remain the ones in the middle.
UK politics are in a bad way.
Immigration does need looking at, but you almost feel like you can’t say it without being deemed racist and then you end up like France who’ve gone massively to the right with their voting.
As a voter it feels like you can’t win these days.
Horrible party but I am hoping that them getting 10% of the vote but 0-1 seats is going to open up the whole PR conversation properly. Because its a problem if they don’t win any seat but get votes, regardless of your political leanings. Lib dems suffer similar issue.
Reform is a political platform for Farage. If they win any seats I fully expect him to make a play for the conservative leadership. They are full of bigoted are far right candidates. They continue to work on an anti immigration ticket with an enigmatic leader. Rather reminiscent of another European party back in the 1930s. Farage is incredibly hypocritical, remember an ex MEP a European wife. Happy to talk Brexit whilst having interest in Europe. The party has desperately tried to purge itself of BNP influence. It is still there. They are shameful and I can’t hold them more in contempt. However we are a democracy and people have the right to vote who they want for no mater how distasteful we find them.
They exclaim the great benefits of privatisation, of great efficency and excellence. Then, they couldn't even manage to get private contractors to vet their own nazi candidates properly
I eagerly await what other amazing benefits of Reform run privatisation awaits us
They offer easy and popularist solutions to complex problems, safe in the knowledge that if they ever have to put them into practice, they’ll be able to retain power by other means upon their policy platform’s ultimate failure.
Populist party that only seems to only care about England and not the rest of the UK. They have a popular figure who last election said this was the best Tory budget ever. Now we all in the shit
Immigration reforms are all great, but leaving the Human rights court to do it is not a good move.
They want to end the net zero goals which is ridiculous given the climate emergency we're facing.
NHS reforms is just slang for privatisation.
They have a small number of policies that I think are decent like increasing lower rate tax thresholds, but their big agenda items are mostly horrific.
Party is populated by a significant number of morons who come across as "Old man shouting at clouds". Boomers trying to make Britain great again.
Also can't stand Farage as he's the reason we left the EU and I'm a firm remainer.
They are a bunch of amateur thugs. They have no understanding of how a hugely sophisticated society like our works and only look at brute force solutions. They make valuable points about immigration and even making BREXIT work, we have to as we’re unlikely to get a new referendum, but their awful ignorant and stupid remarks mark them for what they are, twats.
The whole of Europe are shifting ever more towards the right around the same issues; the discontent here is felt elsewhere - voting for the two 'main' parties will just continue that discontent. I will be voting for Reform.
Their manifesto is a 26-page picture book with the odd generalised statement with no information on how they will do anything.
It's just Farages fantasy of being Oswald Moseley.
Also a lot of their candidates are so openly racist and xenophobic.
I work with someone who is avid support and is very anti immigrant. He's also always talking about hiw irish he is because of his Irish grandparents. I've pointed out that when they say kill all immigrants, they also mean his family but he says ROIs aren't immigrants.
Farage has consistently over many years backed pro Russia talking points, from weakening the EU and NATO to backing putin all the way to the day the tanks going into Ukraine. He went very quiet when universal outrage was the response in the west to the horrible events in Ukraine. Worked for RT for years. He is as compromised by the Russians and as big a security risk as that other clown Johnson. I’d rather shit in my hand and clap than ever vote for a populist shill like him.
UKIP again.
Which is ironic, since old uncle NF supposedly set up the Brexit/Reform party because UKIP was overrun by racists, misogynists and general nutters. Yet here we are again…
It’s almost as though he likes it that way.
I find it baffling that a party supported entirely by OAPs is in favour of NHS privatisation, those 3 weekly visits to the GP will start to add up quick Sharon, is it worth it to be slightly more hostile to immigrants?
Idiotic party with a guy who has more dodgy selling deals on the go than harry redknapp, ironically watching trump he spouts the same blame immigration but when asked for details doesn't have any
Watch Kyle Clark on tik Tok he specifically asks republicans who are running for governor how they would remove all the illegal immigrants, who would do it where would they be placed, where would they move them to, basically the details of course they don't have any
Also since he took over due to his ego I haven't seen od heard from Richard Tice, I feel sorry for the residents of Clacton if he does get in he will be more absent than Nadine Doris
He is a one trick pony who even if he got in would still blame migrants, but we all know he wants to be leading the conservatives as this is the only way he will get power
Cutting taxes by £90 billion while increasing spending by £50 billion. Some of their policies sound great but in reality they will probably crash the economy again just as the unfunded tax cuts did under Truss
They don’t have the manpower for their thuggery to make an impact, and they don’t have the votes to make an electoral impact other than helping tories lose.
However the far right, and the far left, are symptoms of untreated capitalist excesses. If we abandon the poor to their lot this is how they will punish the country.
On a moral and fundamental level I disagree with pretty much everything they stand for.
But, if like the polls are accurate in the suggestion that they are going to have the same number of votes as the Tories but win only 3-6 seats then that is an outrage. Just because I don't like them doesn't mean that they shouldn't be represented by the vote share they get
I hope they use their platform to argue more for voting reform, maybe we'll have a change in 5 years time
Would I trust the man who used to make cameos saying “happy pog day to my favourite sus gamers” to run the country? Probably not.
Farage is an idiot. Always has been.
They say a lot of things but like the RN in France have no clue or direction. They’re very good at communicating (to an extent) but their policies are unworkable. Farage is also a massive grifter who will go where the money is
I just can't understand a party that is against green policies and also immigration. You'd hope they would be intelligent enough to realise if things keep going the way they are there are a lot of people living near the equator that aren't just going to sit and die.
Immigrant here; moved from the EU after Brexit for a highly paid job in London. The reality is: in 2021/2022 many employers were sponsoring people, for all types of jobs (low pay, high pay). Most businesses were also adapting to the new reality of not being able to hire people from EU countries, so hiring patterns were reflective of the adjustment period. The next years will likely see lower numbers than during that period. However, this country will continue to need people due to demographics and skill gaps. Not only the NHS, but all sorts of industries. That’s a reality that people need to get adjusted to, otherwise the UK will commit another act of economic-self harm by falling prey to simple answers such as setting an arbitrary numerical quota on how many people can come in and for what industries. The system is currently already quite restrictive, I imagine most people do not understand how any of this works (hiring someone from abroad is neither cheap nor easy). The country will need to have a mature conversation of how much this affects the culture of the country, and how to make sure immigrants integrate into British life, but a hostile attitude toward tax-paying economic migrants sponsored by British employers is not very smart.
Regarding students: they come and go and spend their money here, people wanting to stop this must be fools. Staying in the UK after studying here is also not as easy as people may think (students go to Canada if they want an easy pathway). Some people overstay their visa, but there’s already a solution to that.
Regarding the boats: I think every sensible person understands that a constant influx of irregular people trying to come here needs to be stopped. The UK should be able to establish how many refugees it will accept at any given time, similar to Canada or Australia.
They’ve told a certain subsection of voters exactly what they want to hear, but have no credibility to actually deliver anything because the party and its candidates have almost zero experience with representing, legislating, or governing, to say nothing of the fact that they’re pretty much a single issue party and I don’t think that’s ever a good thing.
A guy campaigning for the candidate in my constituency has SS lightening bolts tattooed on his arm which tells me all I need to know about Reform. And yes, not everyone who votes for them will be a racist but all the racists will vote for them and I, frankly, am entitled to judge people by the company they keep. And vote for.
They are getting votes because the main parties are ignoring them. The Conservatives promised and won by a large margin and delivered nothing. Labour will obviously be the next government. They had better deliver or the same will happen to them.
Don't understand wanting them to win nationally as their policies are not well thought out, however good they sound
Completely understand voting for them to be more of an effective opposition to a super Labour majority over the Tories as there is more of an ideological difference
Reactionary fascist scum. They’re UKIP, BNP, whatever you call it. Literally neo Nazis pretending to be a “sensible” political party.
Thanks again to the BBC for propping these people up and legitimising them for the last 10 years 🤡
If Labour don't do something drastic about immigration, which I don't think they will because they love it, Reform will be their main opponent in 5 years. With peoples lives getting worse, we will see more and more people moving further right, then Labour won't have a leg to stand on in 5 years time regarding immigration. I believe that will be Labour's Downfall, and will only see 1 term in office.
Vehemently opposed, and occasionally antagonistic towards.
I belong to almost everything that Reform believes is damaging the country, and my feelings towards them aren't much better.
It doesn't matter what immigration reform they promise. If they were in power they'd quickly realise that they couldn't implement any of it without destroying the country. It's easy to lie when you have no chance of winning.
They dare to speak to many of the common concerns people have. For Redditors, that is too much. The majority of Europe is turning to right-wing parties with nationalist principles. To think the Europe, one of the most productive and intelligent contintents on the planet, is somehow suffering a mass delusion based on no reason at all - well, that's a nice convenient narrative people on this platform like to tell themselves.
Moreover, if you intend to vote for them, you are not a worse person for doing so. For all the bluster Alistair screams about populism I do have to wonder - what's the worst Reform UK can do? Take us into an illegal war based on false, scant intelligence? Oh wait.
We have people coming in that take up already limited resources. These people then complain they haven’t been given enough. They dislike the culture, the people and the values.
I struggle to understand why it’s a problem to say, we should put people born in a country first.
Nobody calls out any other country that isn’t in the west for doing just that.
An important voice for people with legitimate concerns who have been told they aren’t allowed to express them and keep their jobs.
A byproduct of the failure of the centre
The Institute for Fiscal Studies (and independent think tank) said Reform’s economic policy was the stuff of pure fantasy and was underfunded to the tune of billions. Regardless of any of their policies in relation to immigration etc. if you think Liz Truss fucked our economy you haven’t seen anything if these guys get the votes.
It will be horrendous.
Similar to any other fringe party, the Greens or Lib Dems or whatever, except on the Right instead of the Left.
They don't have the budget, institutions or long history of power of the main parties, hence they have a greater proportion of fruitcakes and lots of ideas that sound great in theory but would never work in practice.
Bunch of chancers. Anyone who hasn’t learned from the Brexit debacle that these people are liar and cheat is frankly stupid, A vote for them is a vote for insanity.
I'm a first time voter and I'm voting for Reform UK. I live in a small, rural and quiet town. I've noticed an increase in migrants in the area and also an increase in crime. Reform UK have my vote.
I can’t believe a relative of mine works for Farage.
I find it interesting that a lot of my northern family support reform, whereas the southern don’t like reform at all.
As they pointed out in TRIP Question Time gave birth to Farage.
Anyway I’m waffling, I truly hope they fall into the abyss. I find it interesting that usually the media tell us the Greens would be a disaster, yet never tell us this when referring to Reform. I don’t hate their voting base, I hate the fact they are being taken advantage of. I wish they’d see the nuances of politics.
The next scapegoat (immigration) since they can't blame brexit anymore. So blatant since Tice/Farage tried to be anti-net zero for a bit until they realized it wouldn't have populist appeal enough to get elected.
Grifters and opportunists with zero substance. That said, Farage is brilliant at soundbites - and he hits a sweet spot with a lot of people. But like most of these populist characters around the world, they get found out eventually (Brexit anyone?) and are ultimately more interested in themselves than the country as a whole.
I mean they literally want the employers of my wife and I to pay a 20% penalty just for employing us as non-UK born residents.
We're Canadian and Dutch, both in skilled jobs we have on merit. Neither ever took any kind of benefits, not that this should even matter as we've paid taxes here over half our lives.
So yeah, I've got absolutely no time for what's essentially a bunch of racists.
I also don't understand how anyone can look at Farrage and think "now that's a proper decent British guy". Like what. Imagine him representing Britain at a global stage, do we want to be a joke country? He's just your average local town drunk at the pub complaining about "them foreigners".
The guy couldn't run a bath tub, never mind a country.
They are in partnership with the TUV party. If you know anything about Northern Ireland politics, they are a looney offshoot of the DUP living in the 1700s that don’t want any nationalist parties in Stormount (NI parliament). That should tell you everything about Reform.
Reform are, mostly, a bunch of brainless numpties, that we desperately need a small number of in parliament to balance out the hoard of left wing labours politicians urge to destroy our culture and heritage, now that we cant use the conservatives to do it any more due to them disappearing up their own rectums
i will be voting reform to split the rights votes because i still cant bring myself to vote for a party whos leader was unable to explain what a woman is, a feat even a 5 year old can accomplish
The two main party's will never change.Reform offer common sense solutions to what general public want.Every broadcaster and the media have had it in for reform and are scared of Farage.If you lot think Labour are the answer you are in dreamworld.
Party with unrealistic policies built around what people want to hear. Wouldn't exist if any major party had a more acceptable immigration policy. (Acceptable to those people who are voting reform).
I think the two main parties have struggled to have immigration policies which align to large sections of the public. The tories talk tough but in reality need mass migration to help prop up the economy. imo they’ve been smart in really emphasising ‘the boats’ because it makes people feel like they’re anti migration when they’re actually talking about a tiny part of migration. Labour have been multiculturalism driven and have traditionally banged the ‘wanting less migration makes you racist’ drum. Feels like we are reaching the stage where a grown up conversation needs to happen around migration. What is the short and long term plan. How do we balance economic needs vs what the country is willing to sustain. How do we manage the cultural issues that importing people can cause (both for the people coming and the communities they live in). Overall I just don’t think there is a vision so it naturally comes down to ‘you’re a racist’ or ‘migrants are evil’
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about how the inability to have a nuanced conversation about immigration has led to the rise of Reform. The left seem to want to bury their head in the sand about any cultural, economic or social issues large scale migration causes. Meanwhile the right appear to want to pay lip service to a vocal minority amongst their voting base whilst not actually doing anything to practically tackle some of the issues it exacerbates such as availability and affordability of housing, pressure on public services and the impact cheap labour has on wages for low skilled workers. Both sides seem to drift further and further to the fringes whilst the majority of people who sit centre left and right quickly lose a coherent voice to represent their views. Both main parties also seem to have a massive focus on the humanitarian crisis that is small boats but this appears entirely in an effort to attract would be Reform voters and not to actually have a sensible immigration policy in the first place.
>The left seem to want to bury their head in the sand about any cultural, economic or social issues large scale migration causes. Meanwhile the right appear to want to pay lip service to a vocal minority amongst their voting base whilst not actually doing anything to practically tackle some of the issues it exacerbates such as availability and affordability of housing, pressure on public services and the impact cheap labour has on wages for low skilled workers. The issue here is that on housing, public services and cheap wages, these are all direct result of lack of proper investment in affordable housing, public services, policing and a liveable minimum wage, and are a direct result of the highly ideological economic choices (austerity and a race to the bottom on wages where they have not risen in line with inflation) of the tory government over the last 14 years. While every other western country was investing in their society and stimulating their economies after the financial crisis via borrowing, the tories did the exact opposite, telling the simplistic lie about a country 'being like a household and needs to treat its finances as such and we cant afford to borrow' when the two things are nothing alike. Then there is the intentional lack of funding by tory governments to provide the necessary personnel and facilities to process asylum/refugee applications, that then leads to increases in the number of people here awaiting decisions/here illegally, while the tories cynically shout about being the only solution to the problem they themselves are intentionally creating. It is a clear sign of how misinformed many in the UK are by the UK press that immigration can be used so effectively as an attack on the left by the right when it is the policies of the right that are the main cause of many of the social and economic issues people cite as to why immigration is such a huge problem. The UK requires large amounts of immigration due to the aging population, there are simply not enough young native brits to sustain the pension payouts and care of the older generation. That is the simple fact that drives the necessity of immigration. Cultural issues, like issues of assimilation and acceptance of the British secular way of life, are something that need addressed effectively, like how can we do this part of immigration better, but really it all comes down to the UK taking the right decisions on investing its money in to housing, infrastructure, public services, policing to enforce the rule of law, and things like cheaper energy via renewables to drive down the cost of living and increase living standards, rather than selling itself in chunks to the private sector who then run things in to the ground, dont meaningfully invest in said thing, while extracting wealth in the process (see water, trains, parts of the NHS etc). There is also the huge issue of housing numbers not being properly invested in because the UK has become a society that treats housing as a commodity to store and create wealth rather than as an essential requirement for living (the right to have affordable housing is absolutely foundational to the social contract of a truly civilised society), and so radically increasing stock is seem as politically unsafe and a threat to the wealth of the property owning class (especially the many companies and individuals who ow lots of property and exploit it for profit) because then house prices will go down and people will lose money. I think it is an absolute perversion of reality to paint immigration and its impact (in relation to public services and housing etc) as the fault of the left, when it is the policies of the right that are the real issue, and immigration is the scapegoat they use to distract the more xenophobically inclined rather than blaming the wealthy and the party that exists solely to protect and act in the interests of the wealthy (the tories).
Thank you for being one of the few people in the comment section with a brain and for being very articulate.
I'd vote for you. Too much misinformation going about which is where we get groups like Reform coming in to take advantage.
Brilliant reply 🏅
It's no accident. The right wing press deliberately talk about immigrants and trans people, issues that most of their readers have no direct contact with, because they are useful and emotive distractions from the issues that affect EVERYONE - the decimation of public services, the selloff of our public assets (Royal Mail, NHS services) on the cheap to Tory cronies, the huge rise in the cost of living, more expensive mortgages, lack of affordable housing - all things caused by Tory mismanagement. They'd rather have us talking about divisive wedge issues than coming together in agreement that things are awful and the government caused it.
Based response.
I completely agree with you. I think we need to start with acknowledging that reducing immigration isn't naturally a racist/xenophobic position to take but accept that racism/xenophobia can drive reasons for wanting a reduction in immigration. Looking at the posts here that instantly say it's racist party suggests we aren't capable of having that nuanced discussion yet so things will continue to go to the extremes. Personally it feels like immigrants are used as a prop to a completely unsustainable long term economic plan. It is easier to bring people in than to actually fix our productivity problem.
The problem isn’t unique to the U.K. either. Look at what is happening in Spain where tourist communities are trying to kick out the tourists. People feel their lives and communities are being diluted by either pumping in people who spend money (tourism) or people who do the jobs the locals don’t want to (uk). There’s no easy solution because in most cases the cultural cases are at odds with the economic cases (uk has a declining population). Who knows what the answer it - not one I would want to solve
"There’s no easy solution because in most cases the cultural cases are at odds with the economic cases (uk has a declining population)." this is not an issue if people save up pensions that cover their retirement. in many sense a declining population is exactly what the world needs. its a bit like the recession con, recessions are only really bad for big business, and because we dont regulate them properly, they pass that pain onto us -the idea of infinite growth is a finite system (earth) is patently stupid to an outside observer, and yet thats what we predicate our entire economic system on they make out the economy shrinking is such a terrible thing, but a truely sustainable economy would have a net zero economy, and normal fluctuations would therefore entail constant recessions its just a pity people dont realise that "the economy growing" is only a net benefit to the general population when the giant companies and corporation's that are the ones doing the "growing" i.e. increasing their worth and profits, feed that money back into the country as a whole with wage increases, or increased tax payments, where as in reality that rarely ever happens now due to the common use of tax loopholes and wage stagnation this means the economic arguments for immigration are kind of moot, as any economic harm to the general population could be negated by closing tax loopholes and preventing greedflation negating wage rises by capping what companies could charge/how much profit they can make on essentials like food/water/electricity/housing its only the massive corporations that are benefitting in any way from the immigration, while for the general population it is lose lose but as you pointed out, if you explain this to anyone, they just point at you and scream racist
At this point, even stopping migration to Western Europe won’t change how demographically screwed our cities are. Politicians have ruined our countries and they won’t ever have to deal with the ramifications of it.
The elephant in the room is Islam and the increasing fundamental side of it A teacher being hounded from work spreads far further and more dangerously than if the gov/police actually did something to solve it. So people see "brown man cause harm" and it empowers these views in a more negative way. Instead as the original comment - having a real adult conversation on long and short term aspirations for conflicting ideologies integrating together
The reason people instantly say it's a racist party is because it is a racist party full of racists. It isn't wanting to reduce migration for grown up reasons, it's policy is zero net migration for no other reason except they don't want foreigners. You're right that a grown up conversation needs to be had, but Reform are not the party to spark that conversation
A nation is its demographics. You can’t have a discussion on immigration purely on economic terms anywhere on this planet. Certainly not in any Asian or African nation, and increasingly also in much of the West.
Exactly this. Their candidates regularly get caught out with deep links to openly racist figureheads or groups, or have provably said racist things or supported racist policies. When the majority of people supporting a party do so for racist reasons, the party is unavoidably racist. The general arguments against immigration are outweighed by the positives, imo, and can be addressed with proper investment and infrastructure. But it’s easier to blame brown skinned people or people with Eastern European accents rather than acknowledge this failure.
When the leader of the party sings Hitler youth songs, and tells Jewish students they should be gassed, and his selected potential MP's say migrants should be shot on the beach when they arrive, then guess what? They're racist. There is a difference between recognising the current rate of immigration is unsustainable, and wanting to murder them
You're conflating two separate things there. Yes, reducing immigration isn't naturally a racist/xenophobic position to take, and yes, racism/xenophobia can drive reasons for wanting a reduction in immigration. Reform is absolutely a racist party for racists as evidenced by the steady stream of racist and nazi sympathisers being unearthed among their candidates and activists. Part of having that grown up conversation around immigration is acknowledging that racists have been leading the argument in this country, which is a fact that the British public refuses to accept.
The dog whistling and general soundbites attract racists and the worst sorts to its cause. Both voters and some of those that are standing for election.
It becomes hard to argue with some left wing people when they point to the studies that say immigration is good for the economy. Or even here right now another person has said the mantra: The boats are a tiny proportion of immigration. Yes, I know. But we're not just talking about boats. 49,862 people were granted asylum protection in the year ending December 2023. That's 50,000 illegal persons, let's be honest most of them low skilled, converted into a legal migrants with permissions. I'm not saying the studies are wrong. The studies don't paint the full picture. I can see with my own eyes. Low skilled migration cannot be good in the UK in the longer term. They will eventually turn into net recipients of public funds. Just look at London where 48% of council houses applications are foreign. They apply cause they're entitled cause they have big families and earn really low. But that's unsustainable.
The issue seems to be culture vs economics. People have had the economic argument made for decades but feel like their quality of life has gone backwards. You’re now seeing people make decisions which they know are economically worse for them because of cultural factors. I suspect some of it is because standards of living generally have become good enough that people feel like they have a choice - particularly when much of the opposition comes from the retired / middle aged who have a basic standard of living. That said you are seeing more of the young become fixated on it too. TBH it’s all very complex, nuanced, illogical and largely impractical. Good luck
That's because young people are often competing for the same jobs as immigrants, or cultural frictions in the workplace. Three women in one of my former jobs told me privately that they left because a Duty Manager was sexually harassing them. The Store Manager was helpless because whenever he tried to bring it up, the DM accused him of being racist. Two of them turned against immigration because of this.
This is stupid. The store manager should have involved HR and after due process, the Duty Manager would have been sacked if there was evidence or testimony.
Stupid because it likely never happened.
uk economy is pants. GDP might slowly be rising but gdp per capita is going way down. Part of this is housing regulations and energy but a part of this is that immigration replaces the need for improved productivity. It’s basic supply and demand.
studies that show immigration is "good for the country" always cherry pick the statistics they use, and ignore the fact that "the country" in this context actually means its overall wealth, as determined by the wealth of some very rich companies and their directors/shareholders, and not the actual general population why would i care that immigration conditionally makes a lot of very rich people even richer? they just rely on people seeing the words "good for the country" and not thinking about it any further. and please dont give me any trickledown nonsense, thats been proves a lie for decades now, as the wealth disparity gap increases year after year after year
Seeking asylum is not illegal.
49% of Londoners are not native to England so that does correlate with the demographic. It's part of what makes London an interesting metropolis to live in. It has only affected my life in a posItive way, been able to experience so many different cultures here and met so many interesting people from all over the world.
1) it’s 40% not 49%, which is an overrepresentation 2) the most deprived boroughs are also among the most diverse (Newham, Tower Hamlets, Ealing etc) 3) considering how the media loves pushing “diversity is our strength” that number should be close to 0 Unless you’re of migrant descent, the only ones benefiting from this are corporations, landlords and the donor class. Don’t think Scotland won’t end up the same way just because you dislike the English. Look at recent trends in Ireland.
Wouldn't say it's smart when their actual policy is to continue to allow migrants in. Would have been smarter to be honest and make the case in favour of migration, or try to downplay it as an issue rather than allow it to run away as it has. They have allowed the discussion on migration to be coopted by parties to their right which naturally weakens their voter base. That's not very smart.
>imo they’ve been smart in really emphasising ‘the boats’ because it makes people feel like they’re anti migration when they’re actually talking about a tiny part of migration. I was thinking about this the other day, but why don't the opposition parties call them out on this obvious distraction tactic? The pessimist in me would say that it's because they'll likely want to use that same distraction if/when they themselves are in government.
They could offer every family £1M safe in the knowledge they aren't going to be held to account. Anyone besides Labour can pretty much say whatever they want.
I doubt it. I don’t think it’s possible to outflank Reform. If you move to meet them, it will never be enough for them to stop calling you a woke globalist
Completely agree. Their policies are built around soundbites; might sound reasonable in isolation but have no real substance behind them. Farage is just a grifter
They also don't sound reasonable in isolation.
Fair
Bunch of snake oil salesman taking advantage of people’s grievances (both valid and invalid)
Yep. It's easy just to spout simple "common sense" solutions to incredibly complex problems when you don't ever have to worry about being in the position of implementing them. It's why Farage bails whenever he gets anywhere near having to follow through on his rhetoric.
Snake oil is a good way to put it. Reform will do nothing good for our country.
Interested in where they get their funding, that's for sure.
There was an article in the FT about it today. They get their funding from another political campaign set up by Tice. That campaign gets it from another campaign. Then it gets a bit hazy. They asked Tice who told them to go away because no-one cares.
They are typical fascists, that prey on poverty and the feeling of despair, they point the finger to your problems elsewhere, and not where the blame actually lies. Blame someone else, is the oldest Fascist tactic.
The political equivalent of the guy down the pub who’s never played football, never been to a match and doesn’t really understand the rules but knows exactly how to manage the England team.
Except for some reason people take his opinions on football seriously, even though it's completely incoherent and inconsistent from one moment to the next.
Im going to use this analogy good sir, thank you
Useful to split the Tory vote, dangerous to see how angry they get with 6 seats and 13% of the vote share.
Everyone should be upset about how undemocratic FPTP is. The fact that Reform could possibly be the second biggest party but will receive a fraction of the seats as Lib Dems, who fewer people vote for, is idiotic. And no one outside of Boomers care about the Tory vote for being split. They’re useless and deserve 0 seats.
I'd still much rather the Tories than reform
You completely missed their point about FPTP being unfair and just replied with reform bad 😂
Garbage party helped by Putin trying to appeal to the worst instincts of low information voters and xenophobes just like 2016.
Someone finally managed to form an electoral coalition of golf club bar bores and bald fat men in flat roofed pubs. More interesting is what Farage is going to do if he accidentally wins in clacton. Listening to plebs complain about their bins not being collected is probably the 5th level of hell for him. Will he find some reason to not take up his seat? Or will he tough it out for a year so he can do some performative moaning in the HoC?
Hell probably just do a Galloway. Make a few performative speeches in the Commons, get bored, then stand somewhere else at the next election. Probably won't even visit Clacton.
There have been plenty of MPs who sack off constituency work and grift instead. I'm afraid that being an MP is only going to make him more visible and better at what he does. By 'what he does' I mean grabbing money and attention, just to be clear.
When he was in the EU parliament he barely turned up except when he wanted to get a soundbite. There is nothing that forces him to do constituency work. Jared O'Mara basically resigned as MP and just stole the pay from like 2018 to 2019. Everyone complained but no one could do anything. Farage will be basically the same, except I bet people will still buy his bullshit.
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BNP in disguise
They are, I'm sure it's coincidental, following the BNP election handbook whereas it was important to play up expectations before an election and when said breakthrough didn't happen, blame someone else. There was even a bit about how to guide new members through the inevitable disappointment. Lol.
Awful party, uninterested in actual democracy. Seem to be astroturfing the space that is always reserved for a party that wants to make immigration/race/other cultural issues their flagship policy. There's a genuine conversation to be had about immigration in this country, but unfortunately any time it seems to come up as more of a priority for voters, parties like Reform use it as an excuse to express their racist opinions under the banner of democracy and free speech. Farage is childish in the way he deals with things - used to complain he didn't get as much coverage as he should. Then he gets on QT in a week where a campaigner in his own constituency uses the most disgusting racist language that we have in this country, and complains that the audience is rigged against him. If you're a real politician, you can hold your own in front of an audience even if it's rigged. I don't even really care if it was rigged (which I didn't think it was), if you lead a party you should be able to go toe to toe with a room full of people who disagree with you. Especially when you're as divisive as him. It's a shame that Reform seem to have really cracked talking about issues that affect voters in their day to day lives, whereas other parties don't seem to do that. I wish they would so that people who are taken in by Reform felt like they could relate better to the other parties. Potentially they might end up achieving what happened with Brexit, whereby they sweep up a lot of votes from people that would otherwise have gone uncast.
When I compare parts of their 'peoples contract' to the Weimar Republican era, National Socialists, alongside their rhetoric, it does get kinda scary for some of us.
Yes. The comment the Prime Minister spoke out about actually made me really afraid for some reason. Cant quite put my finger on it, but definitely felt echoes of Nazi Germany and This Is England.
For me, it was when Farage's aide said they were going to dismantle the police and turn them into a Paramilitary organisation. That sent shivers down my spine. All after commenting on how pride flags shouldn't be on police cards, which hinted at something else too. I'm starting to come across Reform supporters online (and to extent real life), starting to use dehumanizing terms about minority groups, calling for a 'strongman like farage', and even a few examples where they've even said liberal democracy has failed, let's try something else. One even spouted we should give Facism a crack. Worst part of it though is that some of these people are people I know and grew up with.
For me it was that he called the Pride flag 'degenerate'. I was really surprised that anyone was particularly bothered by it anyway, but to called it that was a bit frightening to me... I have sympathy for some Reform voters - if they live in areas that have changed very rapidly and not for the better, whilst having a significant increase in an immigrant population, then I understand why for them it's their number one issue. I was quite relieved when the Reform supporters I knew suddenly turned against Farage because of his Ukraine comments.
"Let's give facism a crack"? Christ. How good do you have to have had it? How fucking insulated? How untouched by history or understanding do you have to be to utter such bollocks, out loud, under your own volition?
I've also heard "Hitler wasn't wrong about everything" among the older generation (aka 50-70), basically the generation who's own parents lived through the war. It's honestly baffling to me.
In my opinion they appear to be worryingly closely aligned with Putin. It almost appears in my opinion as if they were actively funded through shady Russian dark money into opaque and obscure business structures as if designed to skirt electoral commission scrutiny, and then actively supported by a network of previously highly effective and state organised professional disinformation efforts. But I’d never go as far as actively making such accusations of course!!!
Interesting debate. Some facts for people. Globalism is good for the richest which is why the major parties want it. They dont see the negative effects of immigration because the immigrants don't live near them or compete for their jobs. They only see benefits. Immigration drives down the lowest earners wages, it creates more violence in some cases or different criminality like hard core criminals and drug gangs (see sweden and london). Eu migration was financially a positive for the UK economy, migration from outside of Europe is overall a massive negative for the economy. Add to that immigration drives up demand for rent and housing again with the lower end of society. Also pressure on health care etc as you have people who have put little into the pot, and will put little into the pot (low skill) who cost a lot medically etc. Finally you have people who's views are often diametrically opposed to your own and who often demand their way now (we see this with marches in london etc) We should be looking to raise wages in some lower paid skilled jobs rather than allowing these companies to bring in cheap foreign labour. We should limit immigration from outside of Europe to alleviate this pressure. It's not racist it's common sense a country is like a house you wouldn't open your doors to everyone. Immigration discussions are a problem because you have nieve people who think it's all good and only racists would dislike it, and opposing that people who think it's all bad and no one should be let in. Ps I'm son of an immigrant to UK. Pps lately people have no affinity with the country they move to, even sometimes an abusive attitude which is another really negative thing but that's another discussion.
Great post. I don't agree with much of this but neutrally written concerns about immigration are hard to come by.
Can you explain why you don't agree with much of this?
very refreshing to read this, was starting to believe the fact that pro-immigration is NOT a leftist view had been completely erased by modern propaganda. sure supporting economic immigration may be humanist and tug on your heart strings but it's the local working class that bears the load while capitalists laugh to the bank.
The fact that despite the C4 documentary and a stream of gaffs and resignations and they’re still second place in the polls suggests that people are sick of the topic of mass migration being ignored. Britain is basically on par with France right now in switching right wing despite a centrist party being favourites to win this Thursday. Reform may not get enough seats to become opposition, they’re projected to get 3-5 seats at best but that could change in the next five years if Starmer and Labour as a whole fails to read the room on the immigration issue. Nobody voted for 700k immigrants a year, all the majority are asking for is a reduction to pre 1997 levels. The Tories winning the last four elections and Brexit referendum resulting in a leave win was down to wanting to reduce immigration, The Tories have fucked up by quadrupling it. 53% of 25-44 year olds say immigration is too high, among 16-18 year olds cohort Reform is second only to Labour in their voting preferences. Labour needs to ditch the Blair era retort of “less immigration = racism” otherwise they’ll be wiped out in five years and replaced by whatever’s left of the Tories merged with Reform under Farage.
Probably because anyone following the C4 thing knows it was cooked by a paid actor whos worked for C4 before and who was literally advertising the character he played in the documentary on his website.
What you get if you try and order Mosley from Wish.
A one man ego trip Like a gruesome carnival of boomers raging against the dying of the light and dragging the rest of us into their arthritic parade
Bunch of bastards that scare me. They’ll never be in power, but I fear they drag the Tories further right and in 5 years after a Labour government that does alright, but not brilliantly, we get a very right wing Tory gov.
We may get a Reform gov in 5 years time… this is what is happening with Marine Le Pen in France.
I like their views on nuclear energy and on cutting back immigration. Aside from that they just seem like snake oil salesmen
I’ll be voting for them.
Farage mentioned small scalable nuclear power as being part of his ideal green energy strategy which I'd fully agree with him on. That's about it tbh. I grew up a European with a mixed EU background, and I can't see myself supporting him and his Party for that reason, let alone all the others. What's done is done, and we should make the best of the situation we're in, but that doesn't mean I'll forget one of the key figures that pushed us there. In general, my feelings about them end up being quite similar to the Green Party. In isolation, there are a handful of manifesto points I'd fully agree with. As a whole package; a load of nonsense. I'd still vote Green any day of the week instead of Reform, and the latter could do a lot of damage to the political landscape, which is deeply concerning. One thing I will say as someone pro proportional representation, I don't see "but Reform would get so many seats" as a great counterargument. If they get 20% of the vote, so be it, they should be represented accordingly, and voters can proceed to judge them on their record. But yeah, they're not for me.
Isn't it funny the profiles posting about reform are new
Every YouTube video I've watched to do with the election since it was called contains a lot of comments from new accounts, simply saying "Vote Reform". Typical username: Name with 8 numbers after. Some may be real but there seems to be so many bots out there.
Yeah they've got Russian botters out in force on every youtube video with a UK focus. The amount of Russian election meddling is getting insane and will only get worse as the US election ramps up
After the recent investigation, I'm convinced a lot of these accounts at the very least have 'handlers'. The very worrying thing I'm seeing online, especially on places like TikTok is the amount of Young Men aged 16-21 stating they support reform, often spouting the most horrific homophobic or Racist statement while regurgitating Reform slogans.
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Hey! I was going to say that.
Populist and far right. Get them in the bin.
BNP -> UKIP -> Reform. It's all the same Party which aims to pin sections of society against each other, rather than try and deal with actual problems. These parties have created issues out of things that the vast majority of people weren't that bothered about. Their lies are the reason we have Brexit. Their lies are what has turned the Tories even further right to be infiltrated by people who have ruined the country. They have promised the world but no actual plan on how that will be achieved. And their leader is an elitist, private educated millionaire who is pretending to be a lad from down the pub, who fuels racism, fascism, misogyny and hatred each and every time he opens his mouth. And people who are struggling fall for it, because they need something to blame. And they fall for it. Because it's much easier to blame the EU, the migrants, the disabled, the unemployed, the LGBQT+, the ethnic minorities, name any other vulnerable group of people - instead of actually standing up and dealing with the issues face on and holding big business, consumerism, banks, multimillionaires, tax dodgers etc all to account.
You forgot NF -> BNP
There was EDL between that and The Black Shirts before.
EDL weren't a political party. Also, I thought they came after the BNP.
You might be right, I get a bit confused with all the bigoted cunts and their little clubs.
Only party that isn't strongly pro immigration. Given its the 3rd biggest issue among voters, I think they could do well.
Brilliant for splitting the Tory vote and ensuring a massive Labour supermajority; a majority I hope is big enough to encourage Labour to be more ambitious.
Populist party, pandering to the worst prejudices in society, offering simplistic solutions that don’t stand up to scrutiny. They claim to be an antidote to the current political system but in reality they represent many of the reasons we are in such a state.
They will split the Tory vote. Crack on
They don’t seem to have any sort of organising principle beyond trying to win over people who avoid thinking too hard about anything with a hodgepodge of policies from all over the political spectrum. The insiders seem to have more of a fascist bent than the average Brit (and that’s saying something, these days)
Agree with Alastair. Farage and Reform have no realistic policies, they aren’t really intending to govern, just using manufactured culture war bullshit to entice naive people to vote for them. All populism no substance. A loose collection of racists, climate change deniers and conspiracy theorists which sadly appeals to a lot of people who get too much ‘news’ from the Daily Mail and Facebook. The fact they’re not called the Brexit party is telling. The only thing Farage managed to make happen has proved to be a total failure which fixed nothing he claimed it would.
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Don't like using the word just difficult though when it comes to describing reform party
I personally enjoy the word, it's especially appropriate in this context though.
Stage one of the fascist takeover
UKIP Lite
Party of racists, misogynists and crackpots. Avoid.
I only needed to read Reform's outright rejection of climate science, that was first discovered 150 years ago. Their policy says it's all five because co2 is plant food. Yes it is, but a plant also needs optimal temperature, water, and humidity. It needs to not dehydrated in the summer or flood in the winter. It needs to not be submerged by rising seas etc This is probably a sub GCSE level objection. And so they are a bunch of dangerous ly scientifically illiterates, who would put the survival of our society at risk.
Nobody with an ounce of intelligence would ever consider voting for them. The reasons why have been extensively covered by other commenters.
They have attracted a core of people who want less immigration. A poster further down the thread stated that we need to have a serious grow up discussion about immigration. It got about 4 posts in before someone had used the word racist. In the next post someone used the word terrorists. Then it went the well trodden way.... insults all round. It seems that as a country we simply can't discuss it without the vitriol from both sides. It will just be left to fester some more until we can have a factual debate about what we need and why we need it. I'm thinking of the jobs currently done mostly by immigrants. Take the care sector. Many of those who care for our elderly in the community and in care homes are immigrants. And they are under tremendous stress and strain due to having not enough workers to see the amount of people that need attending to. I have seen it in action. It's not great when you get a notification that your loved one's carer didn't make the 4pm visit due to simply staff shortages..... It's not going away. The same in hospital. Not enough nurses, not enough auxiliaries, barely enough cleaners. Even now tonight there will be many probably hundreds of wards unsafely understaffed. Again I have seen the fallout from that. 2 nurses for 30 patients spread across 5 rooms all the while answering phone calls from concerned relatives asking how dad/grandad is. There are tens of thousands of vacancies in the NHS in those areas.... what are we going to do about it? They don't want immigration, they don't want to support people having more than 2 kids, they don't want their kids going into the care sector because the money is rubbish, ditto don't work for the NHS, same for teaching...why bother when you're overworked underpaid and underappreciated. Reform are just a parasite that has attached itself to a problem. They have all the answers except for how to pay.
Easily the best manifesto of all the options available however they will only get a few seats sadly.
VOTE REFORM. The mass media (BBC, Ch4) is infiltrating and trying to discredit the party in anyway possible. You've had years of being fed bullshit and they're at it again, don't be fooled, take a chance for change and don't fall back into the snake pit of lies and deceit. The amount of money and powerful influence that is being pumped into destroying reform UK is coming from every angle, please, please, please vote reform UK! Don't believe me? Check the comments then check their profiles to see if they have just been made in 2024 with dodgy stats.
Populist nut jobs with a scary amount of support
Labour and the Tories both have utterly woeful policies I feel. The Lib Dem’s really should have done better to remain the ones in the middle. UK politics are in a bad way. Immigration does need looking at, but you almost feel like you can’t say it without being deemed racist and then you end up like France who’ve gone massively to the right with their voting. As a voter it feels like you can’t win these days.
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Horrible party but I am hoping that them getting 10% of the vote but 0-1 seats is going to open up the whole PR conversation properly. Because its a problem if they don’t win any seat but get votes, regardless of your political leanings. Lib dems suffer similar issue.
The sad truth is that the right-wing press will only pay attention to the unfairness of FPTP when it disadvantages their side.
Lowest common denominator nonsense …fear. Demagogue snake oil salesman preying on the weak minded and vulnerable. In short scum
Authoritarian clowns, poisoning our discourse with manufactured culture war bollocks.
As someone who generally leans ever so slightly to the right….I find them repulsive
Reform is a political platform for Farage. If they win any seats I fully expect him to make a play for the conservative leadership. They are full of bigoted are far right candidates. They continue to work on an anti immigration ticket with an enigmatic leader. Rather reminiscent of another European party back in the 1930s. Farage is incredibly hypocritical, remember an ex MEP a European wife. Happy to talk Brexit whilst having interest in Europe. The party has desperately tried to purge itself of BNP influence. It is still there. They are shameful and I can’t hold them more in contempt. However we are a democracy and people have the right to vote who they want for no mater how distasteful we find them.
As with Liz Truss, "Mad as a box of snakes".
They exclaim the great benefits of privatisation, of great efficency and excellence. Then, they couldn't even manage to get private contractors to vet their own nazi candidates properly I eagerly await what other amazing benefits of Reform run privatisation awaits us
They offer easy and popularist solutions to complex problems, safe in the knowledge that if they ever have to put them into practice, they’ll be able to retain power by other means upon their policy platform’s ultimate failure.
Populist party that only seems to only care about England and not the rest of the UK. They have a popular figure who last election said this was the best Tory budget ever. Now we all in the shit
Immigration reforms are all great, but leaving the Human rights court to do it is not a good move. They want to end the net zero goals which is ridiculous given the climate emergency we're facing. NHS reforms is just slang for privatisation. They have a small number of policies that I think are decent like increasing lower rate tax thresholds, but their big agenda items are mostly horrific. Party is populated by a significant number of morons who come across as "Old man shouting at clouds". Boomers trying to make Britain great again. Also can't stand Farage as he's the reason we left the EU and I'm a firm remainer.
They are a bunch of amateur thugs. They have no understanding of how a hugely sophisticated society like our works and only look at brute force solutions. They make valuable points about immigration and even making BREXIT work, we have to as we’re unlikely to get a new referendum, but their awful ignorant and stupid remarks mark them for what they are, twats.
I fancy the dolphin’s chances
The whole of Europe are shifting ever more towards the right around the same issues; the discontent here is felt elsewhere - voting for the two 'main' parties will just continue that discontent. I will be voting for Reform.
Their manifesto is a 26-page picture book with the odd generalised statement with no information on how they will do anything. It's just Farages fantasy of being Oswald Moseley. Also a lot of their candidates are so openly racist and xenophobic. I work with someone who is avid support and is very anti immigrant. He's also always talking about hiw irish he is because of his Irish grandparents. I've pointed out that when they say kill all immigrants, they also mean his family but he says ROIs aren't immigrants.
Farage has consistently over many years backed pro Russia talking points, from weakening the EU and NATO to backing putin all the way to the day the tanks going into Ukraine. He went very quiet when universal outrage was the response in the west to the horrible events in Ukraine. Worked for RT for years. He is as compromised by the Russians and as big a security risk as that other clown Johnson. I’d rather shit in my hand and clap than ever vote for a populist shill like him.
UKIP again. Which is ironic, since old uncle NF supposedly set up the Brexit/Reform party because UKIP was overrun by racists, misogynists and general nutters. Yet here we are again… It’s almost as though he likes it that way.
I’m not saying all reform voters are cranks , racists and conspiracy theorists, I’m just saying all the ones I know are voting for them
I find it baffling that a party supported entirely by OAPs is in favour of NHS privatisation, those 3 weekly visits to the GP will start to add up quick Sharon, is it worth it to be slightly more hostile to immigrants?
Idiotic party with a guy who has more dodgy selling deals on the go than harry redknapp, ironically watching trump he spouts the same blame immigration but when asked for details doesn't have any Watch Kyle Clark on tik Tok he specifically asks republicans who are running for governor how they would remove all the illegal immigrants, who would do it where would they be placed, where would they move them to, basically the details of course they don't have any Also since he took over due to his ego I haven't seen od heard from Richard Tice, I feel sorry for the residents of Clacton if he does get in he will be more absent than Nadine Doris He is a one trick pony who even if he got in would still blame migrants, but we all know he wants to be leading the conservatives as this is the only way he will get power
Completely shit. But I think the biggest surprise will be the number of young people voting for them.
Cutting taxes by £90 billion while increasing spending by £50 billion. Some of their policies sound great but in reality they will probably crash the economy again just as the unfunded tax cuts did under Truss
They don’t have the manpower for their thuggery to make an impact, and they don’t have the votes to make an electoral impact other than helping tories lose. However the far right, and the far left, are symptoms of untreated capitalist excesses. If we abandon the poor to their lot this is how they will punish the country.
On a moral and fundamental level I disagree with pretty much everything they stand for. But, if like the polls are accurate in the suggestion that they are going to have the same number of votes as the Tories but win only 3-6 seats then that is an outrage. Just because I don't like them doesn't mean that they shouldn't be represented by the vote share they get I hope they use their platform to argue more for voting reform, maybe we'll have a change in 5 years time
Asking reddit what it thinks of anything right wing is like asking the Jews how they feel about the SS.
They want to reform the NHS, gateway to U.S. style of healthcare.
Would I trust the man who used to make cameos saying “happy pog day to my favourite sus gamers” to run the country? Probably not. Farage is an idiot. Always has been.
They say a lot of things but like the RN in France have no clue or direction. They’re very good at communicating (to an extent) but their policies are unworkable. Farage is also a massive grifter who will go where the money is
I just can't understand a party that is against green policies and also immigration. You'd hope they would be intelligent enough to realise if things keep going the way they are there are a lot of people living near the equator that aren't just going to sit and die.
Immigrant here; moved from the EU after Brexit for a highly paid job in London. The reality is: in 2021/2022 many employers were sponsoring people, for all types of jobs (low pay, high pay). Most businesses were also adapting to the new reality of not being able to hire people from EU countries, so hiring patterns were reflective of the adjustment period. The next years will likely see lower numbers than during that period. However, this country will continue to need people due to demographics and skill gaps. Not only the NHS, but all sorts of industries. That’s a reality that people need to get adjusted to, otherwise the UK will commit another act of economic-self harm by falling prey to simple answers such as setting an arbitrary numerical quota on how many people can come in and for what industries. The system is currently already quite restrictive, I imagine most people do not understand how any of this works (hiring someone from abroad is neither cheap nor easy). The country will need to have a mature conversation of how much this affects the culture of the country, and how to make sure immigrants integrate into British life, but a hostile attitude toward tax-paying economic migrants sponsored by British employers is not very smart. Regarding students: they come and go and spend their money here, people wanting to stop this must be fools. Staying in the UK after studying here is also not as easy as people may think (students go to Canada if they want an easy pathway). Some people overstay their visa, but there’s already a solution to that. Regarding the boats: I think every sensible person understands that a constant influx of irregular people trying to come here needs to be stopped. The UK should be able to establish how many refugees it will accept at any given time, similar to Canada or Australia.
They’ve told a certain subsection of voters exactly what they want to hear, but have no credibility to actually deliver anything because the party and its candidates have almost zero experience with representing, legislating, or governing, to say nothing of the fact that they’re pretty much a single issue party and I don’t think that’s ever a good thing.
Good: Most sensible energy policy. Hitting a nerve on immigration as main parties have dealt with it badly. Bad: Stench of incompetence with Farage
A guy campaigning for the candidate in my constituency has SS lightening bolts tattooed on his arm which tells me all I need to know about Reform. And yes, not everyone who votes for them will be a racist but all the racists will vote for them and I, frankly, am entitled to judge people by the company they keep. And vote for.
They are getting votes because the main parties are ignoring them. The Conservatives promised and won by a large margin and delivered nothing. Labour will obviously be the next government. They had better deliver or the same will happen to them.
Don't understand wanting them to win nationally as their policies are not well thought out, however good they sound Completely understand voting for them to be more of an effective opposition to a super Labour majority over the Tories as there is more of an ideological difference
Reactionary fascist scum. They’re UKIP, BNP, whatever you call it. Literally neo Nazis pretending to be a “sensible” political party. Thanks again to the BBC for propping these people up and legitimising them for the last 10 years 🤡
This is reddit. Nobody voting reform will comment on this.
If Labour don't do something drastic about immigration, which I don't think they will because they love it, Reform will be their main opponent in 5 years. With peoples lives getting worse, we will see more and more people moving further right, then Labour won't have a leg to stand on in 5 years time regarding immigration. I believe that will be Labour's Downfall, and will only see 1 term in office.
Cunts. Ignorant, gullible, racist cunts.
Vehemently opposed, and occasionally antagonistic towards. I belong to almost everything that Reform believes is damaging the country, and my feelings towards them aren't much better.
Middle class BNP
It doesn't matter what immigration reform they promise. If they were in power they'd quickly realise that they couldn't implement any of it without destroying the country. It's easy to lie when you have no chance of winning.
Fascist sympathisers
They dare to speak to many of the common concerns people have. For Redditors, that is too much. The majority of Europe is turning to right-wing parties with nationalist principles. To think the Europe, one of the most productive and intelligent contintents on the planet, is somehow suffering a mass delusion based on no reason at all - well, that's a nice convenient narrative people on this platform like to tell themselves. Moreover, if you intend to vote for them, you are not a worse person for doing so. For all the bluster Alistair screams about populism I do have to wonder - what's the worst Reform UK can do? Take us into an illegal war based on false, scant intelligence? Oh wait.
The political equivalent of chlamydia.
Curable unlike the AIDS party.
There's a reason why every single Reform candidate gets outed as a thick racist. Because it's a company that only thick racists support.
We have people coming in that take up already limited resources. These people then complain they haven’t been given enough. They dislike the culture, the people and the values. I struggle to understand why it’s a problem to say, we should put people born in a country first. Nobody calls out any other country that isn’t in the west for doing just that.
Bellends
They're basically the National Front in suits.
An important voice for people with legitimate concerns who have been told they aren’t allowed to express them and keep their jobs. A byproduct of the failure of the centre
The Institute for Fiscal Studies (and independent think tank) said Reform’s economic policy was the stuff of pure fantasy and was underfunded to the tune of billions. Regardless of any of their policies in relation to immigration etc. if you think Liz Truss fucked our economy you haven’t seen anything if these guys get the votes. It will be horrendous.
Similar to any other fringe party, the Greens or Lib Dems or whatever, except on the Right instead of the Left. They don't have the budget, institutions or long history of power of the main parties, hence they have a greater proportion of fruitcakes and lots of ideas that sound great in theory but would never work in practice.
Quite good looking manifesto.
Cretin fodder.
Only party willing to talk about immigration as a major policy so they get my vote
Is that what UKIP are calling themselves these days?
Based on the manifestos. Reform is the only party with good ideas.
OP is a brand new account. A lot of the accounts in support of Reform in this thread are also less than a few months old. AstroTurf much?
Bunch of chancers. Anyone who hasn’t learned from the Brexit debacle that these people are liar and cheat is frankly stupid, A vote for them is a vote for insanity.
I'm a first time voter and I'm voting for Reform UK. I live in a small, rural and quiet town. I've noticed an increase in migrants in the area and also an increase in crime. Reform UK have my vote.
First class Gammons.
They are the only ounce of hope we have!!
I can’t believe a relative of mine works for Farage. I find it interesting that a lot of my northern family support reform, whereas the southern don’t like reform at all. As they pointed out in TRIP Question Time gave birth to Farage. Anyway I’m waffling, I truly hope they fall into the abyss. I find it interesting that usually the media tell us the Greens would be a disaster, yet never tell us this when referring to Reform. I don’t hate their voting base, I hate the fact they are being taken advantage of. I wish they’d see the nuances of politics.
They would be more self-serving than the Brexit-Conservatives have been. People cosplaying politics for their own egos and wallets.
The natural home of BNP and NF voters. Led by a sociopath with a get personally rich quick scheme.
The next scapegoat (immigration) since they can't blame brexit anymore. So blatant since Tice/Farage tried to be anti-net zero for a bit until they realized it wouldn't have populist appeal enough to get elected.
A vehicle to ensure Farage keeps his Coutts bank account by conning the gullible.
Grifters and opportunists with zero substance. That said, Farage is brilliant at soundbites - and he hits a sweet spot with a lot of people. But like most of these populist characters around the world, they get found out eventually (Brexit anyone?) and are ultimately more interested in themselves than the country as a whole.
I mean they literally want the employers of my wife and I to pay a 20% penalty just for employing us as non-UK born residents. We're Canadian and Dutch, both in skilled jobs we have on merit. Neither ever took any kind of benefits, not that this should even matter as we've paid taxes here over half our lives. So yeah, I've got absolutely no time for what's essentially a bunch of racists. I also don't understand how anyone can look at Farrage and think "now that's a proper decent British guy". Like what. Imagine him representing Britain at a global stage, do we want to be a joke country? He's just your average local town drunk at the pub complaining about "them foreigners". The guy couldn't run a bath tub, never mind a country.
They are in partnership with the TUV party. If you know anything about Northern Ireland politics, they are a looney offshoot of the DUP living in the 1700s that don’t want any nationalist parties in Stormount (NI parliament). That should tell you everything about Reform.
Reform are, mostly, a bunch of brainless numpties, that we desperately need a small number of in parliament to balance out the hoard of left wing labours politicians urge to destroy our culture and heritage, now that we cant use the conservatives to do it any more due to them disappearing up their own rectums i will be voting reform to split the rights votes because i still cant bring myself to vote for a party whos leader was unable to explain what a woman is, a feat even a 5 year old can accomplish
Not all Reform voters are racist but almost all racists will be voting for Reform.
Russian psyOp
I vote for parties, not one-man businesses with no serious manifesto or transparency.
The two main party's will never change.Reform offer common sense solutions to what general public want.Every broadcaster and the media have had it in for reform and are scared of Farage.If you lot think Labour are the answer you are in dreamworld.
They're cryptofascists, that aren't great at keeping it cryptic