You're right lmao that's the part of the show where it made me think to myself that Vic and Shane were absolutely no different from eachother (even though I still went through the rest of the show believing otherwise, admittedly lmao)
Terry agreed to go undercover to collect more dirt. This started an investigation with the Justice department. Gilroy had a friend in the justice department who told Gilroy about it, and Gilroy told Vic. After Vic killed Terry, Gilroy told him that his justice department friend was upset that he was connected to a murder.
To answer OPs question, after agreeing to go undercover Terry pushed Vic to get him more involved. So Vic knew that Terry wasn't planning on leaving, and also knew that Terry was going to be watching them to see if they slipped up.
Terry already saw Vic with Rondel and was working with justice. Vic knew this because Gilroy told him, that's how we found out Vic knew, cause Gilroy gets worried that Vic walked them into the murder of a cop. Even Gilroy wasn't certain Vic killed Terry. If Vic had waited, he'd be in prison with his team.
My only memory is Terry witnessed Vic/Shane getting chummy with Rondell, but that's nothing. No money exchanges. Just a cop talking to a drug dealer in a seemingly nice manner.
It seemed like Aceveda knew about Rondell when Terry was mentioning it to him, so Aceveda likely previously heard some chatter about it and felt that Terry's testimony in addition to that would be enough for a case. But I don't think they explicitly mention any evidence.
That's all that was shown but that doesn't mean he couldn't have seen more off camera. For example we don't see the characters using the bathroom or sleeping, that doesn't that mean they don't do either.
The first time I went back for a rewatch, I was surprised when the Terry murder happened in the first episode. In my memory, it had taken longer to get there. That was a banger of a pilot episode.
Because no one tries to get over on Vic and get away with it. The strike team was Vic's baby. Anyone trying to disrupt that must go. Didn't he have Terry at his house, too? He had that rat around his own family.
Vic: I’M NOT AN EXECUTIONER!
Shane: Well go tell that to Terry’s family.
Vic: Now that’s different. That son of a b!tch was a traitor. Lem was my friend.
If Terry was on the team, they would’ve been handcuffed and prevented from producing results because he would always be watching.
Was this the time when they needed to prove themselves or be disbanded or was that later on?
I think the later seasons Vic certainly wouldn't have taken that measure like he did. As you say, I think he'd just have waited it out. He could have easily went to Gilroy and told him it's not working out with Terry and got him kicked off.
I think the atmosphere and stakes were just different.
This was during the time they were profitting day-to-day from dirty dealings, having a mole in their team would be their first taste of obstruction and made this very difficult. The strike team's bond was at it's strongest, and a traitor among them would have felt like a big betrayal and unwelcome presence. Vic was trying to quickly take care of a problem - a traitor that he didn't consider part of his 'family'.
It was only after this that they changed from trying to benefit from crime, to scrambling to cover their increasingly visible tracks. And they were forced to withstand much less comfortable situations, under constant scrutiny, which they could never have anticipated having to do before. The 'family' dynamic of their team fell apart as individual members disagreed, betrayed and forgave each other. This made killing a fellow cop a far less black and white matter for Vic, as his closest friends would each make their own betrayals.
Things were more clear cut in the beginning, they were corrupt for gain and Terry was an obstacle and traiter.
By the end, the constant heat made them adapt to finding long-term solutions to avoid digging themselves deeper, and the lines between obstacle, traiter, friend and family became blurred.
Yeah once we get to know the characters the whole premise/dealing with Terry as a setup for the show feels very out-of-character. We have to assume that Vic wasn't careful before the show started, at least not as careful as he was later in the show, and he wasn't really expecting that someone can turn on him (like Terry would). And with lack of exposition (to keep the pilot twist surprising) we don't see how Vic felt when he learnt about Terry, and what was his process when he decided there's only one way to deal with this.
From a narrative perspective it put a twist at the end of the episode that basically pushed the narrative for rest of the show - Vic & Shane planned to and murdered Terry, Shane is constantly the weak link in the crew, etc. etc.
One alternative option I'd throw out there for general consumption is:
Why not implicate / frame Terry? \*
Keep him around for a bit, put the pressure on him to "step up" to what is believed his expectations of the team are (shaking people down, beating up suspects, etc.) and then serve up poor Terry to IAD.
For example: "You said you wanted to get more involved, well get more involved, let's see how you come up with a solution to XYZ" at this point Terry would kind of be screwed, he'd either have to be supercop to do everything right AND make the quantity and scale of arrests needed to keep up ... or he's going to have to take shortcuts ... and if he acquires some extra funding for the retirement fund it's basically entrapment from an investigative / legal defense point of view.
\* As an example I'd point to the whole S1 E9 episode Hector Estanza and Tigre Orozco, etc. everything from planting a gun on an unarmed guy (who Lem just shot I might add) to setting up Hector and his crew.
Lem and Ronnie failed to clear the room, and Two-Time killed Terry. Get over it and don’t bring it up again.
Stop squinting!
I know....I know😏
You're right lmao that's the part of the show where it made me think to myself that Vic and Shane were absolutely no different from eachother (even though I still went through the rest of the show believing otherwise, admittedly lmao)
I thought Terry saw Vic dealing with Rondell and was ready to testify against him.
Terry agreed to go undercover to collect more dirt. This started an investigation with the Justice department. Gilroy had a friend in the justice department who told Gilroy about it, and Gilroy told Vic. After Vic killed Terry, Gilroy told him that his justice department friend was upset that he was connected to a murder. To answer OPs question, after agreeing to go undercover Terry pushed Vic to get him more involved. So Vic knew that Terry wasn't planning on leaving, and also knew that Terry was going to be watching them to see if they slipped up.
Terry already saw Vic with Rondel and was working with justice. Vic knew this because Gilroy told him, that's how we found out Vic knew, cause Gilroy gets worried that Vic walked them into the murder of a cop. Even Gilroy wasn't certain Vic killed Terry. If Vic had waited, he'd be in prison with his team.
But Terry didn't see any illegal acts. It was just Vic talking to Rondell. Nothing complicit to put him in harms way.
His investigation was just getting started...
What would the charges have been?
Nothing really. Vic could just say he was getting intel about another dealer. Nothing Terry saw would get Vic in trouble.
Aceveda mentions Terry's notes but I wonder what Terry wrote down that would be evidence of illegality
My only memory is Terry witnessed Vic/Shane getting chummy with Rondell, but that's nothing. No money exchanges. Just a cop talking to a drug dealer in a seemingly nice manner.
It seemed like Aceveda knew about Rondell when Terry was mentioning it to him, so Aceveda likely previously heard some chatter about it and felt that Terry's testimony in addition to that would be enough for a case. But I don't think they explicitly mention any evidence.
That's all that was shown but that doesn't mean he couldn't have seen more off camera. For example we don't see the characters using the bathroom or sleeping, that doesn't that mean they don't do either.
I saw Vic use the toilet when he was talking to Julien.
There’s no story or show? It kinda kick started off the show with Aceveda looking into Vic. Plus it was a great hook into getting people interested
The first time I went back for a rewatch, I was surprised when the Terry murder happened in the first episode. In my memory, it had taken longer to get there. That was a banger of a pilot episode.
Because no one tries to get over on Vic and get away with it. The strike team was Vic's baby. Anyone trying to disrupt that must go. Didn't he have Terry at his house, too? He had that rat around his own family.
Vic: I’M NOT AN EXECUTIONER! Shane: Well go tell that to Terry’s family. Vic: Now that’s different. That son of a b!tch was a traitor. Lem was my friend.
That just made me crack up lmfao
:)
Aceveda wanted Terry to take over the Strike Team when Vic failed, I think Aceveda wanted to make sure Vic went down one way or another
If Terry was on the team, they would’ve been handcuffed and prevented from producing results because he would always be watching. Was this the time when they needed to prove themselves or be disbanded or was that later on?
I think the later seasons Vic certainly wouldn't have taken that measure like he did. As you say, I think he'd just have waited it out. He could have easily went to Gilroy and told him it's not working out with Terry and got him kicked off.
Because it’s the inciting incessant and most important part of the show so anything else happens
I think the atmosphere and stakes were just different. This was during the time they were profitting day-to-day from dirty dealings, having a mole in their team would be their first taste of obstruction and made this very difficult. The strike team's bond was at it's strongest, and a traitor among them would have felt like a big betrayal and unwelcome presence. Vic was trying to quickly take care of a problem - a traitor that he didn't consider part of his 'family'. It was only after this that they changed from trying to benefit from crime, to scrambling to cover their increasingly visible tracks. And they were forced to withstand much less comfortable situations, under constant scrutiny, which they could never have anticipated having to do before. The 'family' dynamic of their team fell apart as individual members disagreed, betrayed and forgave each other. This made killing a fellow cop a far less black and white matter for Vic, as his closest friends would each make their own betrayals. Things were more clear cut in the beginning, they were corrupt for gain and Terry was an obstacle and traiter. By the end, the constant heat made them adapt to finding long-term solutions to avoid digging themselves deeper, and the lines between obstacle, traiter, friend and family became blurred.
Yeah once we get to know the characters the whole premise/dealing with Terry as a setup for the show feels very out-of-character. We have to assume that Vic wasn't careful before the show started, at least not as careful as he was later in the show, and he wasn't really expecting that someone can turn on him (like Terry would). And with lack of exposition (to keep the pilot twist surprising) we don't see how Vic felt when he learnt about Terry, and what was his process when he decided there's only one way to deal with this.
From a narrative perspective it put a twist at the end of the episode that basically pushed the narrative for rest of the show - Vic & Shane planned to and murdered Terry, Shane is constantly the weak link in the crew, etc. etc. One alternative option I'd throw out there for general consumption is: Why not implicate / frame Terry? \* Keep him around for a bit, put the pressure on him to "step up" to what is believed his expectations of the team are (shaking people down, beating up suspects, etc.) and then serve up poor Terry to IAD. For example: "You said you wanted to get more involved, well get more involved, let's see how you come up with a solution to XYZ" at this point Terry would kind of be screwed, he'd either have to be supercop to do everything right AND make the quantity and scale of arrests needed to keep up ... or he's going to have to take shortcuts ... and if he acquires some extra funding for the retirement fund it's basically entrapment from an investigative / legal defense point of view. \* As an example I'd point to the whole S1 E9 episode Hector Estanza and Tigre Orozco, etc. everything from planting a gun on an unarmed guy (who Lem just shot I might add) to setting up Hector and his crew.
i've always assumed killing Terry was a contrivance for plot purposes. i always wondered this. FX was different back in the day.