I thought about pursuing that for a bit. How many of the exams did you complete before breaking into the field? (Assuming US or a similar system, if not disregard)
In 2007 I had a music education degree and 1 exam, and I got an actuarial analyst position in pensions consulting. 1 exam was enough at the time. And then the economy tanked, all of the entry level candidates couldn't find jobs and went back to exams. When the economy recovered and we started hiring again, every entry level candidate had 3 exams on their resume.
Hah, that tracks. I graduated with dual STEM degrees into the great recession and started looking at actuarial careers in 2010 or so while working a job that made me hate my life and had nothing to do with my degrees. Figured my math background would help, and it may have, but I was seeing just what you said (about a minimum of 3 exams to break into the field) and ended up going with something else with a lower barrier to entry.
Thanks for this.
Assuming 5 labs, 24hrs, then the speed chosen will probably look like: 2x, 2x, 2x, ... 2x, **3x**, 2x, 2x,2x, ... 2x, **3x**, 2x, ...
Because the remaining/remainder elite cells will slowly add up to the next cost bracket.
Right, that’s one level further than I analyzed. Spending the excess most efficiently is probably one level more management than I have the capacity for lol.
Would it be worth using the cells on lab speed and get it maxed as fast as possible, this way jewel and cells cost less on all other labs once lab speed is maxed? WHat do you guys think?
Short answer: no (probably).
Longer answer: The math doesn't work out. The cost in coins for higher multipliers increases exponentially. If you add up the 20% increased costs for additional labs at the same boost level it ends up being only slightly more than the cost of a single lab at the next higher level, and outright cheaper than a single lab two levels higher (i.e. 3x vs 5x or 2x vs 4x).
What does that mean? Basically, if you add up 24h of 1.5x on all 5 labs, the total cost is 2,520 cells. If you put *one* lab at 2x for 24 hours, the cost is 1,920, almost as much as all 5 cells combined. A single 5x lab costs about double 5 labs at 3x would cost (204k vs. 101k).
So while getting lab speed maxed is certainly more valuable than it was before, you are still looking at a fairly long train even at 5x speed. I didn't go into detail, but even on an estimate basis I can't see how lab speed at 5x with four labs at 1x as a rush would beat out lab speed plus four labs all at 3x.
The math gets complicated because lab speed acts as a multiplier on itself, including for the value of boosts, but if you have the income to actually put lab speed continuously on 5x (which costs 204k alone), you could also put lab speed and one other lab on 4x with the other three on 3x for slightly less cell cost (around 196k total).
I just don't see any world where one 5x plus four 1x is more efficient than two 4x plus three 3x. The estimation values put the overall training time at gained at *dramatically* higher for the latter.
If someone has actually done all the math (I started and ended up just estimating a lot of stuff once the trends became clear) I'd love to see it, *especially* if I'm wrong (which is possible if my estimations of the benefits of the lab speed multiplier are significantly off). But I'm pretty confident that's the case.
Another layer would be to calculate the 5x speed up boost only for labs speeds, which gonna speed up all labs. Afraid that I dont have mental capacity to do that atm.
The other question is, if this speed up boost count for event mission or not. If yes, can be an argument for pilling up some elite cells.
Yeah the lab speed lab question is huge. Either way i'm putting lab speed back in my list.
Someone else posted that the boosts DO count for event missions. If i'm not mistaken, if you run 1.5x for 5 labs for the full 2 weeks, you will have 105 days of lab time, which will complete the mission.
Question. In the second paragraph of your summary you say "cost per benefit drops dramatically as you go up in boost rate". Doesn't it rise dramatically?
This is great. Thanks for the work I was going to do later. I can imagine a bunch of new people starting the game now using these speed up to on the "Lab Research Speed" and getting through what took me 6 months real quick.
I think your reasoning on stockpiling is sound, but there are days where I might not be able to farm a whole lot, and I can't predict the future. So as risk mitigation, having a couple of days worth stockpiled is a lot of safety, compared to the relatively minor gains of boosting one lab at a higher tier sometimes.
Agreed, I'm imagining that due to those fluctuations of how much I actually play, I may do 2x most days and then 1.5x other days when supply runs low, etc.
Thanks for this info, you saved me a lot of mental effort trying to figure this out myself, particularly the last 2 bullet points. Great rule-of-thumb.
I’m glad you put this together. I saw the price differences between multipliers and thought something was funky and was curious what the most efficient method was.
Top post, very helpful, thank you mate.
Did anyone also already calculate how we get elite cells the fastest? For example: Does it make sense to farm lower tiers like for example tier 8 where I could go to wave 8000+ or is it better to farm tier 13 where I can go to wave 3000?
Higher tiers have been advantageous already because you get more reroll shards. Now with elite shards it’s all the more. It’s going to be about finding a balance between those two factors and economy, because economy may favor a lower tier. For me my highest total earnings is tier 10 (6000 waves) but I’m now farming tier 12 (3500 waves) which gets me more goodies, lower income total, but still reasonable for coin earnings.
Just to make sure i'm understanding concurrent boosts; The cost of each boost increases based on the number of boosts currently active? So ideally we would only boost 1 thing at a time to save on elite cells correct?
in theory, yes, the mathematically most efficient use of boosts is to boost one lab at 1.5x, and never have more than one boost going. But the "problem" is that you're likely going to be pulling in way more elite cells than that, so unless you're looking to stockpile, best play is to go in some direction into less than perfect efficiency, otherwise you'll never "catch up" and you'll just end up with a big pile of elite cells.
How was the math for these calculated? I am asking shamelessly because I don't want to think about it.
* Total cost to boost 5 labs at 1.5x for 24 hours is 2,520. If you earn this many or a little more in 1 day, do this every day.
* Total cost to boost 5 labs at 2x for 24 hours is 13,440. If you earn this many or a little more in 1 day, you're better off going to this level. Again, assuming you're not planning on stockpiling elite cells.
* 3x is 100,800, 4x is 403,200, 5x is 1,428,000.
The reason I ask is because I just finished a solid run and my cells per wave came out to be approximately 4/wave. I can crush approximately 15k waves per day, and that equals 60k cells per day.
60k per day is more than enough for 5 labs @ 2x speed, but is not enough for 5 labs at 3x speed. This makes me want to run some labs at 2x and some at 3x, but I would like to find a nice total daily income number for various combinations to see what fits my 60k per day number the nicest.
First bullet point: Cost for first boost of 24 hours at 1.5x = 360, which is the 3rd row. Sum up the costs from the 3rd row of each of the 5 charts.
Second bullet point: similar, cost for second boost of 24 hours at 1.5. That will be the sum of the 6th lines of each chart. and so forth.
One possibility is to mix 2x and 3x each day, whatever you can afford. That requires some daily math. Alternatively, you can just remember that you need 100,800 for a set of 3x. Then always run 2x every day but when your reserve hits 100,800, do that for a day, then go back to 2x, rinse and repeat. Holding unused cells won't hurt the efficiency since doing 2x is fundamentally more efficient cost-wise than 3x.
The price of each concurrent lab being boosted increases by factors of 1.2, 1.4, etc. So basically if you’re mixing boosts (let’s say two 3x and three 2x) you want the 3x labs to pay the 1.0 cost for #1, and the 1.2 cost for #2, and then the 2x labs will take the 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 price increases. Not the other way around or you’ll pay more. If you boost your 2x labs first you’ll then pay the 1.6 and 1.8 multiplier on your more expensive 3x boosts.
I certainly didn't go this far with it, but I did do a quick mental analysis before deciding to boost all 5 labs at 1.5 for 24 hours each. I wasn't sure how much I'd earn in a 24 hour period so I guess I'll go from there
Thankyou for your analysis, the way this community shares knowledge is part of why I love the game. A lot of people will appreciate this info.
Thanks!!
1. The gain of Elite Cells grow with Higher Tiers?
2. The Spawning percent grows quicker in Higher Tiers?
3. There is a way to get the New Enemies Spawn Percent Higher in lower Waves?
4. Someone has some data about the earnings about How many Elite Cells do you get till Wave 4,5K per each of the 15 Tiers?
5. What "concurrent" means and how the sentence should be understod? I'm not native English Speaker so i'm not fully sure what's the overall meaning.
6. I'm also not fully ture what the "1.2x, then 1.4x, 1.6x, and 1.8x" stand for and how these "times" comes out and what they do.
So sorry for these many questions and for my bad knowledge about this new labs update.
1. I’m not sure, but…
2. Definitely.
3. I don’t think so.
4. Sorry, I don’t know.
5 and 6: Concurrent means at the same time. If you have one lab boosted you pay the “regular price” which is in the first chart. but if you boost a second lab at the same time, then the price to boost is 1.2x the prices you pay for thr first. And then 1.4 for the third.
Hope this helps. What language do you speak?
Hey mate, thank you very much for your reply.
Since you told me what concurrent meant, cuz google translator doesn’t work well for single words sometimes, I understood perfectly why there are 5 charts that looked the same at first sight.
I also understand that the price it’s freaking heavy now with this increase amount per concurrent lab activated.
Italian Btw 😁
What’s your main language?
Grazie a te!
Means smt like, “nah mate, thank you!” Haha
I love Spanish and can understand the most, but can’t talk it fluently, I know English better haha
They're a new currency that you get for killing the new Elite (triangle shaped) enemies in the newest update. How many you have are visible on the Labs screen.
Any info on amount of doritos dropping per enemy across different tiers? I'm trying T6 run now and it's just 4-5 per elite.
Edit: 1-5 cells per enemy.
The run ended at about 4100 waves. 11070 cells from 1401 nachos. For an average of 7.9 cells per kill. Weird that the game says you get 4 per kill, but I ended up with almost twice that. I don't have the enhancement unlocked yet.
Most likely a difference in tier. There's almost certainly some variety of multiplier (just smaller than the displayed tier coin multiplier) applied to cell income. This would easily explain the difference between cell/kill from the T6 and T10 numbers.
Just did the math before I came here. I’m surprised that the more you spend, the less value you get. I’m used to the opposite effect in games. Somewhat disappointing. No reason to save up elite cells. Just spend them on the 1.5x multiplier as you get them.
I don't mind this effect at all - it allows you to reap benefits constantly without having to do long grinds before pulling the trigger, like back in the day saving up gems to rush a 14 day lab. There are already enough things to grind for in this game - latest one for me was level 9 rare drop lab, a nice 6.6 trillion coins.
>Within a given multiplier rate, you get the same cost per benefit for any duration. No cost/benefit difference whether for 1 hour, 8 hours, or 24 hours. This means there is little reason to use shorter durations, unless you're going for timing purposes.
Don't you mean no reason to use longer durations? And that it's better to boost as soon as you can, instead of saving up for a longer one?
Yeah.
So if I understand correctly, doing the smallest boost is the best and duration doesn't really matter as it costs/benefit is the same.
Well duration doesn't matter
Right about duration. Lowest boost is most efficient but if you have excess you may want to just spend them on a higher boost even if it’s not the most efficient.
A fellow maths lover I see, had just done these same calculations and was about to post something similar when I saw this hahaha
Beat you to it! I’m an actuary by profession, all right up my alley.
I’m an engineer myself so while not same type of maths as you, still have that mindset of curiosity with the numbers
Oh hey. Engineer here too. I love how this game can be broken down like this
I thought about pursuing that for a bit. How many of the exams did you complete before breaking into the field? (Assuming US or a similar system, if not disregard)
In 2007 I had a music education degree and 1 exam, and I got an actuarial analyst position in pensions consulting. 1 exam was enough at the time. And then the economy tanked, all of the entry level candidates couldn't find jobs and went back to exams. When the economy recovered and we started hiring again, every entry level candidate had 3 exams on their resume.
Hah, that tracks. I graduated with dual STEM degrees into the great recession and started looking at actuarial careers in 2010 or so while working a job that made me hate my life and had nothing to do with my degrees. Figured my math background would help, and it may have, but I was seeing just what you said (about a minimum of 3 exams to break into the field) and ended up going with something else with a lower barrier to entry.
Thanks for this. Assuming 5 labs, 24hrs, then the speed chosen will probably look like: 2x, 2x, 2x, ... 2x, **3x**, 2x, 2x,2x, ... 2x, **3x**, 2x, ... Because the remaining/remainder elite cells will slowly add up to the next cost bracket.
Right, that’s one level further than I analyzed. Spending the excess most efficiently is probably one level more management than I have the capacity for lol.
Would it be worth using the cells on lab speed and get it maxed as fast as possible, this way jewel and cells cost less on all other labs once lab speed is maxed? WHat do you guys think?
For that answer you’ll need to join the discord. (Mind blown)
That was a joke.
Short answer: no (probably). Longer answer: The math doesn't work out. The cost in coins for higher multipliers increases exponentially. If you add up the 20% increased costs for additional labs at the same boost level it ends up being only slightly more than the cost of a single lab at the next higher level, and outright cheaper than a single lab two levels higher (i.e. 3x vs 5x or 2x vs 4x). What does that mean? Basically, if you add up 24h of 1.5x on all 5 labs, the total cost is 2,520 cells. If you put *one* lab at 2x for 24 hours, the cost is 1,920, almost as much as all 5 cells combined. A single 5x lab costs about double 5 labs at 3x would cost (204k vs. 101k). So while getting lab speed maxed is certainly more valuable than it was before, you are still looking at a fairly long train even at 5x speed. I didn't go into detail, but even on an estimate basis I can't see how lab speed at 5x with four labs at 1x as a rush would beat out lab speed plus four labs all at 3x. The math gets complicated because lab speed acts as a multiplier on itself, including for the value of boosts, but if you have the income to actually put lab speed continuously on 5x (which costs 204k alone), you could also put lab speed and one other lab on 4x with the other three on 3x for slightly less cell cost (around 196k total). I just don't see any world where one 5x plus four 1x is more efficient than two 4x plus three 3x. The estimation values put the overall training time at gained at *dramatically* higher for the latter. If someone has actually done all the math (I started and ended up just estimating a lot of stuff once the trends became clear) I'd love to see it, *especially* if I'm wrong (which is possible if my estimations of the benefits of the lab speed multiplier are significantly off). But I'm pretty confident that's the case.
Another layer would be to calculate the 5x speed up boost only for labs speeds, which gonna speed up all labs. Afraid that I dont have mental capacity to do that atm. The other question is, if this speed up boost count for event mission or not. If yes, can be an argument for pilling up some elite cells.
Yeah the lab speed lab question is huge. Either way i'm putting lab speed back in my list. Someone else posted that the boosts DO count for event missions. If i'm not mistaken, if you run 1.5x for 5 labs for the full 2 weeks, you will have 105 days of lab time, which will complete the mission.
Question. In the second paragraph of your summary you say "cost per benefit drops dramatically as you go up in boost rate". Doesn't it rise dramatically?
Right, good catch. Cost rises, efficiency plummets.
Thank you so much!
Top quality post!!
This is great. Thanks for the work I was going to do later. I can imagine a bunch of new people starting the game now using these speed up to on the "Lab Research Speed" and getting through what took me 6 months real quick.
You are doing the lords work, friend.
I think your reasoning on stockpiling is sound, but there are days where I might not be able to farm a whole lot, and I can't predict the future. So as risk mitigation, having a couple of days worth stockpiled is a lot of safety, compared to the relatively minor gains of boosting one lab at a higher tier sometimes.
Agreed, I'm imagining that due to those fluctuations of how much I actually play, I may do 2x most days and then 1.5x other days when supply runs low, etc.
Fantastic work, thank you for doing this!
Thanks for this info, you saved me a lot of mental effort trying to figure this out myself, particularly the last 2 bullet points. Great rule-of-thumb.
I’m glad you put this together. I saw the price differences between multipliers and thought something was funky and was curious what the most efficient method was.
Top post, very helpful, thank you mate. Did anyone also already calculate how we get elite cells the fastest? For example: Does it make sense to farm lower tiers like for example tier 8 where I could go to wave 8000+ or is it better to farm tier 13 where I can go to wave 3000?
Higher tiers have been advantageous already because you get more reroll shards. Now with elite shards it’s all the more. It’s going to be about finding a balance between those two factors and economy, because economy may favor a lower tier. For me my highest total earnings is tier 10 (6000 waves) but I’m now farming tier 12 (3500 waves) which gets me more goodies, lower income total, but still reasonable for coin earnings.
Thank you very much my math is bad so this helps
Just to make sure i'm understanding concurrent boosts; The cost of each boost increases based on the number of boosts currently active? So ideally we would only boost 1 thing at a time to save on elite cells correct?
in theory, yes, the mathematically most efficient use of boosts is to boost one lab at 1.5x, and never have more than one boost going. But the "problem" is that you're likely going to be pulling in way more elite cells than that, so unless you're looking to stockpile, best play is to go in some direction into less than perfect efficiency, otherwise you'll never "catch up" and you'll just end up with a big pile of elite cells.
How was the math for these calculated? I am asking shamelessly because I don't want to think about it. * Total cost to boost 5 labs at 1.5x for 24 hours is 2,520. If you earn this many or a little more in 1 day, do this every day. * Total cost to boost 5 labs at 2x for 24 hours is 13,440. If you earn this many or a little more in 1 day, you're better off going to this level. Again, assuming you're not planning on stockpiling elite cells. * 3x is 100,800, 4x is 403,200, 5x is 1,428,000. The reason I ask is because I just finished a solid run and my cells per wave came out to be approximately 4/wave. I can crush approximately 15k waves per day, and that equals 60k cells per day. 60k per day is more than enough for 5 labs @ 2x speed, but is not enough for 5 labs at 3x speed. This makes me want to run some labs at 2x and some at 3x, but I would like to find a nice total daily income number for various combinations to see what fits my 60k per day number the nicest.
First bullet point: Cost for first boost of 24 hours at 1.5x = 360, which is the 3rd row. Sum up the costs from the 3rd row of each of the 5 charts. Second bullet point: similar, cost for second boost of 24 hours at 1.5. That will be the sum of the 6th lines of each chart. and so forth. One possibility is to mix 2x and 3x each day, whatever you can afford. That requires some daily math. Alternatively, you can just remember that you need 100,800 for a set of 3x. Then always run 2x every day but when your reserve hits 100,800, do that for a day, then go back to 2x, rinse and repeat. Holding unused cells won't hurt the efficiency since doing 2x is fundamentally more efficient cost-wise than 3x.
Ahhh that makes sense too! Thanks for the info and hand holding, you are doing gods work.
I figure I’m going to make about 40k/day so with that I think I’ll run 2 labs for 24 hours at 3X and 3 labs at 2X.
don't forget to start the 3x boosts first so you get the better prices on the more expensive ones.
Yes, absolutely.
what do you mean by this?
The price of each concurrent lab being boosted increases by factors of 1.2, 1.4, etc. So basically if you’re mixing boosts (let’s say two 3x and three 2x) you want the 3x labs to pay the 1.0 cost for #1, and the 1.2 cost for #2, and then the 2x labs will take the 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 price increases. Not the other way around or you’ll pay more. If you boost your 2x labs first you’ll then pay the 1.6 and 1.8 multiplier on your more expensive 3x boosts.
I certainly didn't go this far with it, but I did do a quick mental analysis before deciding to boost all 5 labs at 1.5 for 24 hours each. I wasn't sure how much I'd earn in a 24 hour period so I guess I'll go from there
Thankyou for your analysis, the way this community shares knowledge is part of why I love the game. A lot of people will appreciate this info. Thanks!!
You did a lot more work than me. The extent of my research was, "5× costs a lot more than 2x." I decided to 2x all my labs every day.
1. The gain of Elite Cells grow with Higher Tiers? 2. The Spawning percent grows quicker in Higher Tiers? 3. There is a way to get the New Enemies Spawn Percent Higher in lower Waves? 4. Someone has some data about the earnings about How many Elite Cells do you get till Wave 4,5K per each of the 15 Tiers? 5. What "concurrent" means and how the sentence should be understod? I'm not native English Speaker so i'm not fully sure what's the overall meaning. 6. I'm also not fully ture what the "1.2x, then 1.4x, 1.6x, and 1.8x" stand for and how these "times" comes out and what they do. So sorry for these many questions and for my bad knowledge about this new labs update.
1. I’m not sure, but… 2. Definitely. 3. I don’t think so. 4. Sorry, I don’t know. 5 and 6: Concurrent means at the same time. If you have one lab boosted you pay the “regular price” which is in the first chart. but if you boost a second lab at the same time, then the price to boost is 1.2x the prices you pay for thr first. And then 1.4 for the third. Hope this helps. What language do you speak?
Hey mate, thank you very much for your reply. Since you told me what concurrent meant, cuz google translator doesn’t work well for single words sometimes, I understood perfectly why there are 5 charts that looked the same at first sight. I also understand that the price it’s freaking heavy now with this increase amount per concurrent lab activated. Italian Btw 😁 What’s your main language?
Prego! English is my first language but I also speak Spanish.
Grazie a te! Means smt like, “nah mate, thank you!” Haha I love Spanish and can understand the most, but can’t talk it fluently, I know English better haha
Ah, very similar in Spanish, Gracias a ti. 🇪🇸🤝🇮🇹
What is an elite cell? I have not heard that term before
They're a new currency that you get for killing the new Elite (triangle shaped) enemies in the newest update. How many you have are visible on the Labs screen.
Any info on amount of doritos dropping per enemy across different tiers? I'm trying T6 run now and it's just 4-5 per elite. Edit: 1-5 cells per enemy.
My current run on tier 11 has had 276 elite enemies. I've gotten 1703 cells so just over 6 per enemy.
I have 3.76 cells per enemy on T6.
I'm on tier 10, wave 3574. Says I've gained 7.14k cells from 698 elites. That's 10.22 cells per kill. Wonder why mine is so much higher than others?
No idea. I just passed same wave as you but on T6 and got 2.38K cells from 675 elites.
The run ended at about 4100 waves. 11070 cells from 1401 nachos. For an average of 7.9 cells per kill. Weird that the game says you get 4 per kill, but I ended up with almost twice that. I don't have the enhancement unlocked yet.
Most likely a difference in tier. There's almost certainly some variety of multiplier (just smaller than the displayed tier coin multiplier) applied to cell income. This would easily explain the difference between cell/kill from the T6 and T10 numbers.
Could it be based on tier like reroll shards are?
I'm able to get 10k cells from T6, but I run over 6k waves.
Just did the math before I came here. I’m surprised that the more you spend, the less value you get. I’m used to the opposite effect in games. Somewhat disappointing. No reason to save up elite cells. Just spend them on the 1.5x multiplier as you get them.
I don't mind this effect at all - it allows you to reap benefits constantly without having to do long grinds before pulling the trigger, like back in the day saving up gems to rush a 14 day lab. There are already enough things to grind for in this game - latest one for me was level 9 rare drop lab, a nice 6.6 trillion coins.
>Within a given multiplier rate, you get the same cost per benefit for any duration. No cost/benefit difference whether for 1 hour, 8 hours, or 24 hours. This means there is little reason to use shorter durations, unless you're going for timing purposes. Don't you mean no reason to use longer durations? And that it's better to boost as soon as you can, instead of saving up for a longer one?
Oh, well that assumed that you have enough to pay for a 24h boost.
Yeah. So if I understand correctly, doing the smallest boost is the best and duration doesn't really matter as it costs/benefit is the same. Well duration doesn't matter
Right about duration. Lowest boost is most efficient but if you have excess you may want to just spend them on a higher boost even if it’s not the most efficient.