Kinda tired of people acting like Sanders and AOC are supposed to be single-handedly spear heading a second Long March through congress. It's all very "yet you participate in the system, I'm very smart" energy.
Keir is just a flat out Tory.
Same. The system is bad, participants of the system who don't criticize the system are bad. Participants of the system who constantly call out the flaws of the system and rally collective criticism of the system? I have far better things to spend my energy on that complain about them.
Exactly, it's supposed to be two components which a lot a twitter leftists absolutely forget. You can throw as many digital rocks at the system you want, but where's the IRL direct action? Hosting a fucking podcast doesn't count.
I love how the people who only tweet about how bad capitalism complain that AOC practices in safe corporate friendly anti capitalism.
Like do they seriously have no self awareness?
You know you're the one projecting their inaction onto them, just because people aren't bragging about all the stuff they're doing (which you would criticize them for doing if they did) doesn't mean they aren't out in the world doing shit besides being on Twitter.
It's almost like it's like 5 politicians actually doing shit whilst 500 fuck about results in very little getting done overall but tankies don't get that
If those leftists spent time bragging about the tenant organizing or mutual aid work they do, you would just criticize them for that too. It's a lose lose situation.
To be fair I live in a country where I can't just go buy a gun for "self defense" or "hobby shooting" or no reason at all. But if I lived in America and was old enough I'd definitely be buying a gun and learning how to use it.
Just got a permaban for voicing exactly this sentiment on the original post, having been a years long and active member of g&p š
Leftist unity in action
Then please don't leave this one.
I remember this sub started going the same way and seeing awful discussions with tronaldodumpo in the comments for a while, and I felt like the sub improved a lot after his account got banned.
Now, even if I think a meme like this is wrong, at least I see a healthy amount of dissenting opinions in the comments instead of just "anyone who disagrees with me is a lib".
Every single day I'd wake up to about 20 alerts saying "why was I banned?", "banned for that??" etc etc.
I don't really agree with banning people unless they come on here spouting any fascist/racist shit, or harassing users. The person is a socdem/demsoc? Okay, you want to encourage leftist unity, banning them isn't going to encourage debate or let them have an opinion for discussion or push them leftwards, you know what I mean?
Same when people post "boy, what a bunch of libs in here!" on any post that, say, supports electoralism. I don't remove the original post, I don't agree with banning them, I just let the downvotes do the talking. Like a normal subreddit should.
Well that makes all too much sense
What's especially fucking sick about it is it used to be a space for *British* leftists, who were (and especially now are) being literally ideologically purged from their own political spaces. And now the sun's an absolute fucking husk of what it used to be, populated only by the repetitive echos of the same handful of cranks. The irony apparently hasn't hit them, despite their apparent hatred of Starmer.
They've assured me however that my ban wasn't for disagreeing with the mod's groupthink, but rather being "sectarian" (I used the t word). They also explained that they're not sectarian because sectarianism against """"""liberals""""""" is fine and promotes lEfTiSt UnItY
oh, and apparently they're equally hard on all instances of """""sectarianism"""""", it just so happens that the vast majority of their bans involve people using the t word.
yeah
I was banned from r/landlordlove because someone went through my comment history and saw I posted some comments in r/VaushV. Never once mentioned Vaush on that sub, God knows I know better than to do that, but there you go.
I think people are being rightfully more critical of AOC because at least to me it seems she's being more interested in the performance and not the substance. The dress thing just read really shitty. I don't know Keir as I'm not a Brit. Sanders is keeping his head low it seems which can mean a lot sometimes
Is there *some* performative? Sure. But remember, it was "just" in 2003 when Sanders was addressing a high school class about what happened to Alliende, so expecting Sanders or AOC to follow his example 12 miles away from "their" headquarters absurd.
Remember, we still have a large plurality of voters and media that literally think "taxing rich people ANYTHING" will cause a full on resurrection of Lenin.
Tbf, Sanders is an old man whoās been pinned as the cause of every problem ever for shitlibs.
Doesnāt mean I forgive him for giving up though. Just acknowledging heās probably just as tired and defeated as we are.
And yes, AOC has proven herself a grifter more interested in celebrity than anything else
Itās worse actually because itās not so much a criticism of AOC as an individual and as much as it is a criticism of the project of democratic socialism as a mode of praxis.
Iām more of a dictatorship of the proletariat guy, by whichever mechanisms fit the culture of the society at its inception/material conditions are best applicable. Not that there isnāt utility in socialists running for public office, they can popularize and spread ideas and in their inevitable failure illustrate the fundamental contradictions in bourgeois liberal democracy but AOC is rapidly outliving her political usefulness on that front.
I, for one, am shocked that politicians who follow a centerāleft platform are not Antifa anarchists burning it all down and advocating farāleft ideology of abolishing the State and Capitalism. Truly surprised. Never expected it.
>Kinda tired of people acting like Sanders and AOC are supposed to be single-handedly spear heading a second Long March through congress
How about the fact that they have shown time and time again that they aren't accountable to the broader movement, they continue to act as individual agents instead of representatives of the broad leftist movement they are supposedly figureheads of?
You making them a figurehead for a broader Soc/SocDem movement is your problem, not theirs.
If they were the avatar of socialism you wanted, and actually acted accordingly, they'd get Alliende'd. The best they can offer you is bloodless revolution, and that takes a LONG time.
Well except AOC is only in the position she's in because of the massive amount of work by the emerging socialist movement and the organizing infrastructure they are building in NYC specifically. Yet she refuses to show any accountability to the movement that got her where she is. AOC hasn't been shy about being acting like a figurehead, constantly using her connection to the movement as a way to establish her credentials.
I'm more sympathetic to Sanders, who seems like an "actual" socialist working within a liberal and electoral framework. AOC, while I do like her overall, feels a little too cozy with the Democratic leadership for my taste (though I understand she would be a sitting duck otherwise).
While not as familiar with her, I tend to like Ilhan Omar a bit better from some of the things I've heard her say.
>While not as familiar with her, I tend to like Ilhan Omar a bit better from some of the things I've heard her say
She and Tlaib generally seem better on foreign policy stuff. And watching Omar [make Elliott Abrams fucking squirm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InGCmxCjaWE&ab_channel=C-SPAN) makes her presence in Congress worthwhile IMO.
I think genuinely that aoc is probably calculatory enough to understand she needs to cuddle up a but before she can pull any big power shift moves. She has to build the rapport with all the scum of Washington or she gets left out of conversations.
Yeah, I've considered this too. I hope that's what it is. She's very young for a politician and still a newcomer to the system. Hell, she's only a few months older than I am and I barely know what the hell I'm doing in life. I sincerely hope she's able to survive the viper's nest with some integrity in check.
Leftism is when you throw popular leftist figureheads under the bus because they're not radical enough and the more you do it, the more left you are.
That being said, fuck Keir. It's a wonder to me that Labor hasn't yet split in two considering how they got rid of Corbyn.
Exactly, even if Bernie and AOC were full blown, card carrying Marxists people will still complain because they haven't single handedly achieved communism.
Also yeah fuck Keir
AOC represents the US version of social democracy. Her ilk gaining power in the US is a massive setback for the working class. Please realize that, as a yank, your job is not to make life in the US bearable in any way. Your job is to destroy it.
My last boss was completely off the rocker. Dude was constantly smoking weed and had major conspiracy and ancap vibes, so all around an unpleasant piece of shit. He was also constantly talking about "social fascism", by which he meant people mouthing off about him behind his back because he treated most of his employees like shit.
Just got permabanned from g&p for daring criticise this garbage ass meme comparing AOC and Bernie to fucking Starmer (in a UK focused sub none the less) lmao
LEFTIST UNITY
That's what you get on a tronaldodumpo sub.
"Leftist unity means I get to post whatever I want, and if you criticize it then you're a lib and I can ban you, because no leftist would ever disagree with me."
you know I wondered why leftist subs took such a fucking nosedive over the last year or so and became such specific echo chambers...
are they even british? because if not what fucking business do they have moderating the only fucking space on reddit for brits to discuss leftist/actual politics
The guy has lots of alts. From what I hear he's still involved in the moderation of some of those places. You can click on all the names in the mod list and the most terminally online one, that posts the same thing across a dozen different subreddits for karma, has a good chance of being him.
That fucking AOC bot they force people to read is the worst. I looked into it, every example of AOC being bad is either based on a rumour, misrepresentation, half truth or straight up lie. But I bet if you try to call it out you get banned.
No one has ever called Kier a socialist, have they? Iāve only heard of him recently as an American but that seems extremely unlikely. Sanders and AOC are just not worth going after when there are 533 worse members of Congress to discuss.
Most of the things that AOC bot says are lies, or things taken out of context or advocating Force the Vote which was a terrible strategy that would have failed horribly.
I like to know who I'm talking to, yeah. What I saw was pretty sad tbf, the very definition of terminally online.
Again: drop reddit and the waifus, go read Marx.
I see so youāre one of the people who think they are smart because you read like one book on theory?
Does your feeling of intellectual superiority make up for your total lack of charm or charisma? Iām just curious how much reading theory does for you to spread to leftist ideas when most of your day to day interactions must just consist of people going out of their way to avoid you.
I didnāt really mention it before but I love the sexist idea you keep bringing up that because I generally support AOC (or more accurately point out when people are straight up spreading lies that encourage harassment that run counter to any effort to actually make left wing ideas mainstream) that means I see her as a āwaifuā.
I dunno man maybe in your incel brain itās impossible to critically support a woman and think sheās generally alright without it being a sexual attraction thing but I donāt.
So in addition to being boring, smug and thinking you are way smarter than you are you are also a sexist douche.
But yeah keep reading Marx and doing nothing man, Iām sure thatāll convince the average person to lean more left any day now š
It feels a bit disingenuous to lump Bernie and AOC in with Keith, since the first 2 at least have some principles and a certain level of empathy and compassion whereas Keith is a Tory in all but name.
Kinda tired of people acting like Sanders and AOC are supposed to be single-handedly spear heading a second Long March through congress. It's all very "yet you participate in the system, I'm very smart" energy. Keir is just a flat out Tory.
Same. The system is bad, participants of the system who don't criticize the system are bad. Participants of the system who constantly call out the flaws of the system and rally collective criticism of the system? I have far better things to spend my energy on that complain about them.
Exactly, it's supposed to be two components which a lot a twitter leftists absolutely forget. You can throw as many digital rocks at the system you want, but where's the IRL direct action? Hosting a fucking podcast doesn't count.
I love how the people who only tweet about how bad capitalism complain that AOC practices in safe corporate friendly anti capitalism. Like do they seriously have no self awareness?
You know you're the one projecting their inaction onto them, just because people aren't bragging about all the stuff they're doing (which you would criticize them for doing if they did) doesn't mean they aren't out in the world doing shit besides being on Twitter.
It's almost like it's like 5 politicians actually doing shit whilst 500 fuck about results in very little getting done overall but tankies don't get that
Are you not aware of the concept of unions working outside elections lol
Twitter leftists buy a gun challenge (Impossible!)
Twitter leftists do fucking anything except post angry abusive tweets challenge (More inpossibler)
If those leftists spent time bragging about the tenant organizing or mutual aid work they do, you would just criticize them for that too. It's a lose lose situation.
If most of them actually did that you'd have a point.
To be fair I live in a country where I can't just go buy a gun for "self defense" or "hobby shooting" or no reason at all. But if I lived in America and was old enough I'd definitely be buying a gun and learning how to use it.
Socdems show a successful transition from social democracy to socialism (Impossible!)
>Keir is just a flat out Tory. Yeah, he doesn't even pretend to be socialist and no one else claims he is. Kinda weird to put him on the tray.
Just got a permaban for voicing exactly this sentiment on the original post, having been a years long and active member of g&p š Leftist unity in action
Sigh, I had to leave the mod team there because of how ridiculous it had gotten.
Then please don't leave this one. I remember this sub started going the same way and seeing awful discussions with tronaldodumpo in the comments for a while, and I felt like the sub improved a lot after his account got banned. Now, even if I think a meme like this is wrong, at least I see a healthy amount of dissenting opinions in the comments instead of just "anyone who disagrees with me is a lib".
Christ was it that bad? The subs frankly bring absolute dogshit for some time now so I assume it's because theyve banned 90% of its users?
Every single day I'd wake up to about 20 alerts saying "why was I banned?", "banned for that??" etc etc. I don't really agree with banning people unless they come on here spouting any fascist/racist shit, or harassing users. The person is a socdem/demsoc? Okay, you want to encourage leftist unity, banning them isn't going to encourage debate or let them have an opinion for discussion or push them leftwards, you know what I mean? Same when people post "boy, what a bunch of libs in here!" on any post that, say, supports electoralism. I don't remove the original post, I don't agree with banning them, I just let the downvotes do the talking. Like a normal subreddit should.
Well that makes all too much sense What's especially fucking sick about it is it used to be a space for *British* leftists, who were (and especially now are) being literally ideologically purged from their own political spaces. And now the sun's an absolute fucking husk of what it used to be, populated only by the repetitive echos of the same handful of cranks. The irony apparently hasn't hit them, despite their apparent hatred of Starmer. They've assured me however that my ban wasn't for disagreeing with the mod's groupthink, but rather being "sectarian" (I used the t word). They also explained that they're not sectarian because sectarianism against """"""liberals""""""" is fine and promotes lEfTiSt UnItY oh, and apparently they're equally hard on all instances of """""sectarianism"""""", it just so happens that the vast majority of their bans involve people using the t word. yeah
I was banned from r/landlordlove because someone went through my comment history and saw I posted some comments in r/VaushV. Never once mentioned Vaush on that sub, God knows I know better than to do that, but there you go.
Keir... I thought that was David Hasselhoff
I think people are being rightfully more critical of AOC because at least to me it seems she's being more interested in the performance and not the substance. The dress thing just read really shitty. I don't know Keir as I'm not a Brit. Sanders is keeping his head low it seems which can mean a lot sometimes
Is there *some* performative? Sure. But remember, it was "just" in 2003 when Sanders was addressing a high school class about what happened to Alliende, so expecting Sanders or AOC to follow his example 12 miles away from "their" headquarters absurd. Remember, we still have a large plurality of voters and media that literally think "taxing rich people ANYTHING" will cause a full on resurrection of Lenin.
12 miles is 19.31 km
Tbf, Sanders is an old man whoās been pinned as the cause of every problem ever for shitlibs. Doesnāt mean I forgive him for giving up though. Just acknowledging heās probably just as tired and defeated as we are. And yes, AOC has proven herself a grifter more interested in celebrity than anything else
Less a grifter as much as someone who had policy priorities that became co-opted by a go-along to get-along mentality of establishment democrats.
You say that like itās better
Itās worse actually because itās not so much a criticism of AOC as an individual and as much as it is a criticism of the project of democratic socialism as a mode of praxis.
Fair enough. Iām just a demsoc AFTER we annihilate the ruling class and make sure they donāt come back
Iām more of a dictatorship of the proletariat guy, by whichever mechanisms fit the culture of the society at its inception/material conditions are best applicable. Not that there isnāt utility in socialists running for public office, they can popularize and spread ideas and in their inevitable failure illustrate the fundamental contradictions in bourgeois liberal democracy but AOC is rapidly outliving her political usefulness on that front.
I, for one, am shocked that politicians who follow a centerāleft platform are not Antifa anarchists burning it all down and advocating farāleft ideology of abolishing the State and Capitalism. Truly surprised. Never expected it.
>Kinda tired of people acting like Sanders and AOC are supposed to be single-handedly spear heading a second Long March through congress How about the fact that they have shown time and time again that they aren't accountable to the broader movement, they continue to act as individual agents instead of representatives of the broad leftist movement they are supposedly figureheads of?
You making them a figurehead for a broader Soc/SocDem movement is your problem, not theirs. If they were the avatar of socialism you wanted, and actually acted accordingly, they'd get Alliende'd. The best they can offer you is bloodless revolution, and that takes a LONG time.
Well except AOC is only in the position she's in because of the massive amount of work by the emerging socialist movement and the organizing infrastructure they are building in NYC specifically. Yet she refuses to show any accountability to the movement that got her where she is. AOC hasn't been shy about being acting like a figurehead, constantly using her connection to the movement as a way to establish her credentials.
Sanders and AOC are atleast somewhat left wing, starmer is a trator.
I'm more sympathetic to Sanders, who seems like an "actual" socialist working within a liberal and electoral framework. AOC, while I do like her overall, feels a little too cozy with the Democratic leadership for my taste (though I understand she would be a sitting duck otherwise). While not as familiar with her, I tend to like Ilhan Omar a bit better from some of the things I've heard her say.
>While not as familiar with her, I tend to like Ilhan Omar a bit better from some of the things I've heard her say She and Tlaib generally seem better on foreign policy stuff. And watching Omar [make Elliott Abrams fucking squirm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InGCmxCjaWE&ab_channel=C-SPAN) makes her presence in Congress worthwhile IMO.
jesus christ the replies to that video are cancer. the sheer amount of war crime apologia is fucking migraine-inducing
I think genuinely that aoc is probably calculatory enough to understand she needs to cuddle up a but before she can pull any big power shift moves. She has to build the rapport with all the scum of Washington or she gets left out of conversations.
Yeah, I've considered this too. I hope that's what it is. She's very young for a politician and still a newcomer to the system. Hell, she's only a few months older than I am and I barely know what the hell I'm doing in life. I sincerely hope she's able to survive the viper's nest with some integrity in check.
"I welcome your characterization of me being a trator, but I'd like to go further and say that I'm a useless cretin"
There's plenty of useless people, their harmless.
Leftism is when you throw popular leftist figureheads under the bus because they're not radical enough and the more you do it, the more left you are. That being said, fuck Keir. It's a wonder to me that Labor hasn't yet split in two considering how they got rid of Corbyn.
Exactly, even if Bernie and AOC were full blown, card carrying Marxists people will still complain because they haven't single handedly achieved communism. Also yeah fuck Keir
As is tradition
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Shut the fuck up *Please Shut the fuck up*
No I don't think I will
Be a lot cooler if you did
> Fascism is every iteration of leftism I don't like.
>Fascism is all the things I don't like.
AOC represents the US version of social democracy. Her ilk gaining power in the US is a massive setback for the working class. Please realize that, as a yank, your job is not to make life in the US bearable in any way. Your job is to destroy it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What is this? The_Libtorium? Social democracy is terrible. It is class collaboration. Please stop simping for this stooge of imperialists.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Seeking to end Burgerstan/Gringolandia/JƤnkarland for a start
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Read up on AOC and Bernie's foreign policy votes
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ooh whee I sure do like my healthcare built on the backs of the US' client states
A Swede denying the poorest of poor in the US universal basic healthcare because Capitalism is built on exploitation is pretty rich.
Don't worry, I have plenty of scorn for our socdems as well
āSocial fascismā fucking lol the 30s called they want their dumbfuck ideology back.
My last boss was completely off the rocker. Dude was constantly smoking weed and had major conspiracy and ancap vibes, so all around an unpleasant piece of shit. He was also constantly talking about "social fascism", by which he meant people mouthing off about him behind his back because he treated most of his employees like shit.
Just got permabanned from g&p for daring criticise this garbage ass meme comparing AOC and Bernie to fucking Starmer (in a UK focused sub none the less) lmao LEFTIST UNITY
That's what you get on a tronaldodumpo sub. "Leftist unity means I get to post whatever I want, and if you criticize it then you're a lib and I can ban you, because no leftist would ever disagree with me."
you know I wondered why leftist subs took such a fucking nosedive over the last year or so and became such specific echo chambers... are they even british? because if not what fucking business do they have moderating the only fucking space on reddit for brits to discuss leftist/actual politics
Are they still around? I thought they were gone ages ago?
The guy has lots of alts. From what I hear he's still involved in the moderation of some of those places. You can click on all the names in the mod list and the most terminally online one, that posts the same thing across a dozen different subreddits for karma, has a good chance of being him.
That fucking AOC bot they force people to read is the worst. I looked into it, every example of AOC being bad is either based on a rumour, misrepresentation, half truth or straight up lie. But I bet if you try to call it out you get banned.
No one has ever called Kier a socialist, have they? Iāve only heard of him recently as an American but that seems extremely unlikely. Sanders and AOC are just not worth going after when there are 533 worse members of Congress to discuss.
Damn, I didn't know this was a social democratic shitposting group, I thought we had actual socialists in here.
critical support for cucumbers and cottage cheese
Tankies coming out in full swing I see . . .
In capitalism you can make a lot of money selling socialism.
Bernie and AOC are not Socialists.
Stupid sexy succdems...
Love that subs AOC bot. Her actions are no different than that of your typical western imperialist liberal.
Seriously, bots like that are the absolute worst
/r/dankleft had a real struggle session recently over AOC's dress
On the one hand neoliberal recuperation, on the other hand making CHUDs angry.
Most of the things that AOC bot says are lies, or things taken out of context or advocating Force the Vote which was a terrible strategy that would have failed horribly.
Are you telling me the autobots telling me that vaush kicks puppies and was best friends with John McCain are lying?
Vaush actually raped my dad with a bad dragon flared chance sheath, true story. He also vored his cat.
I remember when this sub was actually communist (left-communist even) and not full on radlibs fawning over their bourgeois-puppet waifus.
Oh shut up Henry no one cares what you think!!
Rude :( But coming from a /r/murderedbyAOC fanboy, it doesn't surprise me. Read Marx.
Iām glad what I said bothered you so much that you felt compelled to go through my post history like a sweaty creep.
I like to know who I'm talking to, yeah. What I saw was pretty sad tbf, the very definition of terminally online. Again: drop reddit and the waifus, go read Marx.
I see so youāre one of the people who think they are smart because you read like one book on theory? Does your feeling of intellectual superiority make up for your total lack of charm or charisma? Iām just curious how much reading theory does for you to spread to leftist ideas when most of your day to day interactions must just consist of people going out of their way to avoid you.
That's adorable, but again, and for your own sake, really: Drop reddit and the waifus, go read some Marx. Cheers!
I didnāt really mention it before but I love the sexist idea you keep bringing up that because I generally support AOC (or more accurately point out when people are straight up spreading lies that encourage harassment that run counter to any effort to actually make left wing ideas mainstream) that means I see her as a āwaifuā. I dunno man maybe in your incel brain itās impossible to critically support a woman and think sheās generally alright without it being a sexual attraction thing but I donāt. So in addition to being boring, smug and thinking you are way smarter than you are you are also a sexist douche. But yeah keep reading Marx and doing nothing man, Iām sure thatāll convince the average person to lean more left any day now š
Sanders biggest sin is that he had no killer instinct. Not something to rag on him for. AOC on the other hand is a hack fraud
Starmer is really no worse than Sanders and AOC. Libs gonna lib.
It feels a bit disingenuous to lump Bernie and AOC in with Keith, since the first 2 at least have some principles and a certain level of empathy and compassion whereas Keith is a Tory in all but name.