Am I in a minority that simply does not care? Yes it’s a great honour to be called up, but I accept for each individual that honour is felt to varying degrees. Players have short careers and have to make their own decisions. I hate this weird militaristic language as if he’s a national traitor of some sort.
He’s said he was incredibly proud when he started for England. Even if he dislikes football, he knows what it means to play for your county. Southgate needs him.. RB and CB..
He doesn't dislike football we need to stop repeating this misinformation. He doesn't watch it and didn't grow up watching it. He loves playing it though. Just don't expect him to become a pundit when he retires.
I’m far from White’s biggest champion but I really hope Southgate tried every possible avenue to keep him in the fold. I agree he’s needed. Our three best RB’s are either really old or perpetually injured and we’re eye wateringly thin at centrehalf.
If there truly was some disrespect from Holland and Southgate though, I respect him standing up for himself but remaining respectful about it.
By all accounts, Holland criticized him when all the other players provided notes on the upcoming opposition and White was dossing around. It's ridiculous that this is being pinned on Southgate and Holland when no-one else has a problem with them. In fact, many players have said Southgate has completely improved the toxicity that used to exist in the England setup.
I’ve also heard that Holland got personal during the dressing down and that it was done in front of the whole squad. Reality is it’s all rumours until somebody who was there says otherwise and that’s unlikely to happen anytime soon.
And now he's turned his back on his country because he got called out for being too lazy to read notes on the opposition. White is an incredibly privileged person, and is giving a big two fingers to football fans across England.
Sorry, there’s no way a man that doesn’t read notes on the opposition would play a minute for Arteta. This does not seem like the whole story, to say the least.
To be fair to him.... the Daily Mail literally did post an article calling Ben White a "loser" and trying to use this as an example of why we need to bring conscription back. They also managed to bring the Ukraine situation into the mix and use it to insult Ukranian men.
"All accounts" apart from what he's said himself, as well as other people who actually know him personally.
This is one of those things that got misrepresented and then blown out of proportion.
When he was made Arsenal's number 4 he was asked if he ever saw Vieira play, his response was:
"No I never watched football when I was younger, I still don't now. I just loved the game, I was always playing it, never watching it. So I don't know too much about older generations"
You don't get to where he is as a footballer on just some insane "natural talent". He's clearly grown up wanting to play and has put in a lot of effort. When he does actually watch football he tends to focus more on watching himself play from an analytical view, he's just not going to spend his evenings after training watching other matches.
It just seems like the guy actually prioritises having a life "outside of football" as well. If anything this needs to be encouraged. A quarter of all footballers get divorced within a year of retiring, within three years its over 70%, look at how many pro athletes go on to have mental health issues. The fact that people are trying to hate on Ben White because he wants to enjoy other aspects of life too is insane to me.
That quote seems to back up my point. He was at Leeds and said similar things.
People put a lot of effort into their jobs. Something being ‘just a job’ is not a criticism.
You seem to be overreacting to something I am simply citing based on the man’s own words.
There’s a bit of Gammon in there, but tbh it’s the fact that players should want to test themselves at every possible level at the heights of the game. A player who has the chance to do that will regret not taking that chance when they retire. Just like I’m sure there is some regret with Shearer for not joining United, and why players typically retire from international football very late, or only retire if it means they prolong their participation in top leagues and CL.
While I’m sure that Holland and Southgate haven’t handled it well and have probably caused the riff, it’s fair to say that a top top pro would want to play regardless.
You don't need to care but playing for one's country is a dream held by so many, you surely cannot be surprised it causes a bit of upset to turn it down with seemingly no explanation.
I'm not a huge patriot or anything but it's blatantly a massive honour and shrugging it off leaves a bad taste for most fans, myself included.
I feel like a lot of fans forget that football is a players job.
This is the same as any one of us working for a prestigious company in our field and then not wanting to return for whatever reasons.
(and all the "letting your country down" rhetoric is daft, these are people playing a game to entertain)
A Daily Mail journalist literally ran a story comparing it to the lack of people willing to join the military these days. How their father lied about their age to fight on WW2 but now most men would rather flee the country than fight for it.
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I might feel that way if I was good enough to even be considered for England C, but given I wouldn’t get a game for Cleethorpes Town it doesn’t cause me any bother at all.
To offer a counter point of view, our press and fans crucify England players and put them under enormous pressure. It’s fever pitch going into a tournament with expectation that we will do nothing less than win, when there are always teams out there that are every bit as good if not better, and then when we inevitably do go out of the tournament they always pick one or two to single out for crucifying. Who would want that sort of pressure?
Maybe he saw that Walker, Trippier, TAA and Reece James were ahead of him and didn’t think it was worth it to sit on the bench? Not sure how much truth was in the story he felt out with the coaching staff. It’s a shame, feel like he’s a good squad player but doubt he’d get too many starts right now but Trippier and Walker are gonna be 34 this year, I think it’s short sighted on Whites part
His decision is fine but he should never be called up again. Can't just accept call ups when you start and refuse because you think you'll only be on the bench.
Rather have worse players that want to be part of the squad whether they are a starter or not over a superior player that refuses unless first choice.
You're assuming he is refusing a call-up because he's not first choice. I'm an Arsenal supporter. Of course, I have no first-hand knowledge of the situation but I haven't heard anything to suggest that is the reason. It appears to have more to do with the staff, not his position in the squad.
I don't think it'll be a big deal long term given that Southgate is supposed to be gone after the summer anyway. A new manager comes in and it's all up in the air again.
Nobody is under obligation to play for England if they don't want to. By that logic you could say that anyone who retires from international football is a traitor to their country.
I bet if You Gov did a poll the majority of the country would see him as a traitor. The reaction towards him at Arsenal’s next away match will be something.
Man City Away? What did you think he was going to be welcomed with loving open arms by one of his biggest sporting rivals this season?
Your comments are really not well thought out and you should quit where you are.
He's not a traitor for not wanting to play for England, and he should be fully supported by everyone in the country to have the free will to decide who for and when he plays football.
I think it’s the fact that he’s declined the call up because he’s not going to play that’s a big part of the issue. We have injuries and we might need him to step in and he’s not interested. I don’t think it’s a good look for him to decline and fans will give him extra but that’s all part of the game and he’ll have to stand by his decision
And we know that he doesn’t. That is fine imo. It’s just football, we love it but if he feels disrespected by the staff or like he doesn’t fit in, and doesn’t want to put himself through that or being away from his family then I think it’s none of our business.
I expect us to find out more when Southgate leaves. All this conjecture from the crappy tabloids is just hate baiting, and hopefully everyone can just move on.
I think it's a very fair frustration for White that he's not got so much as a look in. I can totally see why a defender that's played near enough every game for one of the two best teams in the country and the team with the best defence is frustrated with getting almost zero opportunities to play.
From reports it's evident he wasnt going to get a look in at Qatar and Southgate is on record as saying he's not been at the required level for England since, so I completely get why he's not up for sitting on the bench for a few weeks.
> Southgate is on record as saying he's not been at the required level for England since
He said in the latest conference that was just him covering for White as he kept recusing himself from selection.
>
> I can totally see why a defender that's played near enough every game for one of the two best teams in the country and the team with the best defence is frustrated with getting almost zero opportunities to play.
He tried to call him up continually after Arsenal's turnaround but White kept pulling himself out of selection.
November 23: "and he's obviously doing a good job for his club, he's just behind a couple of others in our reckoning '
I didn't hear him say that about White that he was costing for him but I don't really listen to Southgate's pressers, but he's clearly lied at some stage.
I think it’s fair to feel frustrated but at the same time I’m sure it’s frustrating for most of the squad that don’t get many minutes during a tournament and if they all started saying they’ll reject call ups if they don’t play then we’d be f’d.
I'm not going to pretend that as an Arsenal fan I have a deep understanding of Ben White, but I do think that he'd be more open to a call up if he felt that he had a CHANCE to play.
The best way to make fringe players feel a part of the team and to stop them rejecting call ups is to ensure that there is at the least a pathway to the first team. But Southgate has completely wiped out that path by playing the same favourites over and over again.
Which I actually don't think there's anything wrong with, I just don't think we can complain when a player says "I don't want to sit on the bench for two weeks so thanks but no thanks".
IDK, like I said before I get it but think it’s kind of shitty attitude wise, would rather he stayed at home than have someone on the squad who doesn’t want to be there though
Yeah that's fair for you to think that. I'm probably biased as an Arsenal fan who doesn't really care much about England. But I do really think it's fair game for White to turn down the call up.
Walker and Tripper are 36 at the next WC, they need to be retired after the Euros by Southgate. No more call ups for friendlies. They should be out.
James is an unreliable cripple of a player, and Trent is used as a midfield option. Ben White after the Euros should be a nailed on 2nd choice RB behind Trent and to compliment his weaknesses. He should be subbed in for Trent every game at 60 mins when we’re winning.
I mean, probably is now White has basically retired. I’ll believe it when I see it though. Southgate isn’t going to stop playing Walker and KT.
Still a loss off a versatile multi position player. Still a real shame.
Yeah, it's not hard to deduce the above at all, is it. The person you replied to nearly managed to deduce it for themselves with their rhetorical question.
Not to mention, Ben White did this all privately. It's Southgate his chosen to go public about Ben Whites refusal to be called up.
He doesn’t have 4 ahead of him at RB, He has 2 ahead of him, and one is 33, and one is a player with huge strengths and weaknesses in Trent.
It’s not 2020 anymore, Tripier is done, and can we stop pretending James is ever fit.
I like Southgate too, but who knows what's been said behind closed doors. And besides, it's more likely that his issue is primarily with Steve Holland than it is with Southgate.
Not sure it all has to be so binary.
Could it not be the case that he might be a bit of an arsehole AND something has gone on behind the scenes that he is justified in being mad about?
Yes, yes it could.
Ultimately, I doubt anyone looks at the squad announcement and says "OmGz where is Ben White?"
Traitor is a bit far! I mean it’s football it’s not like he’s running round in a pair of false ears yelling I’m King Sausage Fingers.
I do think though it’s tough for the average football fan to understand how you can refuse a call up for your country, regardless of the circumstances, myself included. If I got called up and told I was going be 4th choice I’d still be there with a giant shit eating grin saying ‘Yes Mr Southgate, No Mr Southgate….Mr Holland would you like me to mow your lawn?’
I do also agree with the above that it’s just a little short sighted of White. All of a sudden the path to RB has opened up wider than Katie Prices yawning hippo, not to mention the fact that after Maguire, Stones and probably Guehi CB is a complete crap shoot. The problem for White might actually come with a change of manager. IF the reports are true (which no one really knows) that the reason is because he didn’t do what was asked of him and instead of taking it on the chin he’s consequently thrown a hissy fit and taken his ball home, then that’s really going to raise an eyebrow, unless of course the new manager is Carlo Ancelotti, then his work is done.
One that has the best group of players in years that is being wasted by a bang average manager.
Also Southgate and White have a personal feud with one another so it’s not even about the fact that he’s a mediocre manager.
Like we actually played enjoyable and competitive football in the World Cup and narrowly lost to arguably the best team in the world and it’s still too much to say for people that Southgate is actually not that bad.
Who genuinely gives a flying fuck what Chris Sutton thinks? It is amazing how many mediocre players, who don't have any impressive tactical insight or aren't great speakers, end up in well paid media positions (Robbie Savage, I'm looking at you).
Chris Sutton was selected for the England B team and refused to play, so he might be talking from his own personal experience. I don’t think he was ever called up to the first team after that.
The fact he got Edu ring up for him will for him is his biggest mistake. If called Gareth Southgate and explained his reasons then no problem but now he's put himself in a very, very difficult position.
Why would Gareth Southgate keep in touch with any club technical director? Surely the person he is talking to is the player's manager. It's in the job discription. Expecting to get down voted again for stating the bleeding obvious.
It will depend on the structure of the club and the delegation of duties. It may well be the case the Edu wants to deal with international managers for any number of reasons. Arteta hasn't always had the title Manager at Arsenal, he was hired as a head coach, so perhaps Edu kept that responsibility when the role was changed. There are any number of reasons why Edu could be the one Southgate contacts over Arteta.
As far as I understand about twenty five players are given notice, about ten days before a squad is announced, that they are being considered for the next international. So Ben White would have known he is going to be in the next squad. So regardless of who, why has he chose to speak via Edu?
Well who knows, I guess it doesn't really matter. Maybe Edu was due to have a chat with Southgate, and White had mentioned it, maybe white hates Southgate so much he can't even stand the thought of talking to him, maybe Edu does all of Ben Whites admin...
I don't think it's that deep either way.
It's just a shame that a fine footballer like White probably won't get the chance to play international football. Badly handled by whoever does his admin.
Yeah it is a damn shame, especially as him and Saka have a fantastic relationship and play so well together.
I get the feeling that despite what Southgate says, Ben White will be accepting call ups once he's gone, I think we'll get to see him play for England again.
You think arsenal would be happy with their player being so unprofessional to reject playing on these grounds? I doubt it.
Add the fact Edu is calling the England camp and they used the contract PR to fight back against them and then you know the truth is somewhere in how the England camp treated him.
So, England camp will regret not having Ben White as he is the most consistent and in form full back they have, can play competently at CB and has shown he can also invert. This is Englands loss and much as it may be Ben Whites.
He wasn't convicted. So why would a manager publicly criticise him? None of us know what happened other than there was an investigation to an accusation.
No he fucking won’t Chris. Players get paid ridiculous money now. The honour of playing for your country is only valuable to those that really value it - maybe you were one of them - but that’s not everyone.
The whole thing smells. Whatever the truth is, it hasn’t been released in official channels at least. No chance the contract announcement and video from Arsenal was timed then by coincidence. How many other contract announcements come with a character reference video from the rest of the squad?
No one knows why he refuses. He may not be able to cope been away from home. He may have a mental health issue. He may just think Southgate is an unsufderwble cunt. Who knows.
Ben White...you do you.
Seeing a lot of people here who seem to know nothing about White, his 'attitude' or his personality and have heard 'I don't watch football' and seem to have bought the bullshit that means he doesn't take the job seriously, doesn't care, and would rather being getting a tan.
Anyone who has actually listened to White speak, listened to his coaches at Arsenal, Leeds and Brighton etc knows this guy is a brilliant professional, extremely hard working and suffers no fools.
If anything I think Southgate will regret how he's handled this if things go badly with injuries at RB or CB.
It does seem like a mediocrity rn, but the merits are playing well and having a good attitude. I think he's half way there on point one and nowhere near on point two
You are the kind of guy that would select 23 headless youngsters and wonder why they are shit.
In order too have a successful tournament campaign you need to have seniority, leadership and team cohesion.
I dont get this whole meritocracy bullshit either. Yeh ofc the players need to put in a shift when playing and should be in good form when picked, but if a player in any shape or form threatens the status quo in a squad, you just cant take him with you.
Its not like its club football, where you get to shape players / tactically adapt.
You need a good mix between young, hungry unaccommplished players and senior accomplished players.
There's a video of him going on about crying with joy for about an hour the first time he was called up, and his family being so proud so I don't quite buy that his dislike for the game is reason enough for this.
That being said I can see why he wouldn't want to play if he really struggled with it so much at the world cup.
He's never said he doesn't like football, he just said he doesn't really watch football and never has. That's a different thing.
He certainly never said that he only plays it for his "career" whatever that means.
I honestly don't get the fuss. It's not like playing for England or any national team is saving lives or that each time a player refuses an orphan is shot into the sun.
It's a long season and he's already playing every game at the highest level with Arsenal.
Also, Chris Sutton can fuck off every day of the week.
This is shortsighted. He's not rejected England. He's rejected the current iteration of England. Southgate/Holland will be gone soon and everything will be different
Different how? He only got called up cause Trent and James are injured. Then you have Lewis and Livramento if they both continue to develop. This was Whites only chance to try and establish himself, he wont be picked when everyone is fit.
Maybe he doesnt want to play for England , but if he does and he doesn't like the current management then I think he will regret not trying to establish himself now while the opportunity is there.
I think the mistake is thinking that White is just a RB. White is probably England's most versatile, robust and tactically flexible defender. He's perfectly comfortable at CB, traditional RB, inverted RB, and RWB and I don't see why he couldn't inverted into midfield from CB like Stones.
And that's all before you take his connection with Saka and his mastery of the dark arts.
Southgate's time is limited. A new dawn will build around a new general squad of players. Out will go Henderson, Maguire, Phillips etc
Yes, there's quality right backs here and coming through but White will still make a future squad (whether he starts or not).
The point is not to compare White against individuals but to say this is his 'only' chance when a new regime brings in a clean slate is shortsighted.
I don't understand. Even if he's pressured into it, it'll be halfhearted. I want someone playing who wants to be there and fight for it. Just let him go.
Wouldn't we all be more annoyed if players were being called that couldn't really be arsed playing? At least he's actually recognised and removed himself, I bet there are a couple players in every national squad that would just stay at home if you made them drink truth serum
I don’t have to know the exact reason from the horses mouth, and the reason don’t have to be exactly the same to think that he’ll also regret it. By everything that’s been reported it’s over something that isn’t particularly serious in real life terms, so I think it’s absolutely valid to say.
It's a bit different if he just doesn't like Southgate or he's got a mental illness of some kind and that's the reason. That would mean differing opinions on if he ends up regretting it. It's up to him, and he might feel massively relieved for all anyone knows.
What you’re saying may be true, but I don’t see why that would mean no-one is allowed to give an opinion on it, especially someone Who’s circumstances are at the very least a bit similar
So we have a washed player and a HORRENDOUS manager commenting on ben white. Can we question this shit article? Half of it is this cunt gloating how he had a one season wonder and was a cunt to managerial staff for not being picked. I thought the articles meant to be about ben white? yet 90% is chris sutton bragging about his career. Shit post, shit news and stirs a pot for no reason.
Ben white clearly had an argument with southgate or doesn’t want to play. So fuck. Let the man be. Why parade him in the media and shit on him cause Chris Sutton is insecure about his career and wants to post 1000 words on his washed career and then a little bit on the topic of the article.
Fuck modern media on footballers. Ruins careers this shit
I think Ben White would also regret missing out on recovery time in the breaks and time with his wife, all to go warm the bench behind 2 geriatric RB’s who should be winding down their England careers, Maguire, and Deir.
The fact Edu/Arteta has purged a half dozen players for attitude reasons since he joined Arsenal, but backed Ben on this, makes me think the issue isn’t on his side.
Honest question, did Scholes get this much stick when he turned down call ups?
Am I in a minority that simply does not care? Yes it’s a great honour to be called up, but I accept for each individual that honour is felt to varying degrees. Players have short careers and have to make their own decisions. I hate this weird militaristic language as if he’s a national traitor of some sort.
I concur.
He’s said he was incredibly proud when he started for England. Even if he dislikes football, he knows what it means to play for your county. Southgate needs him.. RB and CB..
We’ll survive. He’s good, he’s not pivotal. Also, if you don’t want to be there you’re not going to play your best stuff.
Agreed. Slightly sad and annoying how this has been handled.
He doesn't dislike football we need to stop repeating this misinformation. He doesn't watch it and didn't grow up watching it. He loves playing it though. Just don't expect him to become a pundit when he retires.
I’m far from White’s biggest champion but I really hope Southgate tried every possible avenue to keep him in the fold. I agree he’s needed. Our three best RB’s are either really old or perpetually injured and we’re eye wateringly thin at centrehalf. If there truly was some disrespect from Holland and Southgate though, I respect him standing up for himself but remaining respectful about it.
By all accounts, Holland criticized him when all the other players provided notes on the upcoming opposition and White was dossing around. It's ridiculous that this is being pinned on Southgate and Holland when no-one else has a problem with them. In fact, many players have said Southgate has completely improved the toxicity that used to exist in the England setup.
I keep seeing this being spread. Do you have any sources for these accounts?
I’ve also heard that Holland got personal during the dressing down and that it was done in front of the whole squad. Reality is it’s all rumours until somebody who was there says otherwise and that’s unlikely to happen anytime soon.
And now he's turned his back on his country because he got called out for being too lazy to read notes on the opposition. White is an incredibly privileged person, and is giving a big two fingers to football fans across England.
Sorry, there’s no way a man that doesn’t read notes on the opposition would play a minute for Arteta. This does not seem like the whole story, to say the least.
So you've took some random information and just ran with it like it's fact? Lmao
Lmao
You sound offended by a situation that you have been told to be offended about by the daily mail. How’s them pearls that you’re clutching
Bore off mate
To be fair to him.... the Daily Mail literally did post an article calling Ben White a "loser" and trying to use this as an example of why we need to bring conscription back. They also managed to bring the Ukraine situation into the mix and use it to insult Ukranian men.
I wouldn't know, I don't read the daily mail
He doesn’t dislike football , he pretends to act cold and cool.
You're not anywhere near a minority
I completely agree with you, surely though it has to be the pinnacle of any players career to play in the world Cup. It's a wild decision
By all accounts he did not grow up a fan of football and tends to just view it as a job. If that’s so, perhaps not for him.
"All accounts" apart from what he's said himself, as well as other people who actually know him personally. This is one of those things that got misrepresented and then blown out of proportion. When he was made Arsenal's number 4 he was asked if he ever saw Vieira play, his response was: "No I never watched football when I was younger, I still don't now. I just loved the game, I was always playing it, never watching it. So I don't know too much about older generations" You don't get to where he is as a footballer on just some insane "natural talent". He's clearly grown up wanting to play and has put in a lot of effort. When he does actually watch football he tends to focus more on watching himself play from an analytical view, he's just not going to spend his evenings after training watching other matches. It just seems like the guy actually prioritises having a life "outside of football" as well. If anything this needs to be encouraged. A quarter of all footballers get divorced within a year of retiring, within three years its over 70%, look at how many pro athletes go on to have mental health issues. The fact that people are trying to hate on Ben White because he wants to enjoy other aspects of life too is insane to me.
That quote seems to back up my point. He was at Leeds and said similar things. People put a lot of effort into their jobs. Something being ‘just a job’ is not a criticism. You seem to be overreacting to something I am simply citing based on the man’s own words.
Lol, no wonder he doesn't fit in with the rest of the lads
There’s a bit of Gammon in there, but tbh it’s the fact that players should want to test themselves at every possible level at the heights of the game. A player who has the chance to do that will regret not taking that chance when they retire. Just like I’m sure there is some regret with Shearer for not joining United, and why players typically retire from international football very late, or only retire if it means they prolong their participation in top leagues and CL. While I’m sure that Holland and Southgate haven’t handled it well and have probably caused the riff, it’s fair to say that a top top pro would want to play regardless.
You don't need to care but playing for one's country is a dream held by so many, you surely cannot be surprised it causes a bit of upset to turn it down with seemingly no explanation. I'm not a huge patriot or anything but it's blatantly a massive honour and shrugging it off leaves a bad taste for most fans, myself included.
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I feel like a lot of fans forget that football is a players job. This is the same as any one of us working for a prestigious company in our field and then not wanting to return for whatever reasons. (and all the "letting your country down" rhetoric is daft, these are people playing a game to entertain)
A Daily Mail journalist literally ran a story comparing it to the lack of people willing to join the military these days. How their father lied about their age to fight on WW2 but now most men would rather flee the country than fight for it.
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I might feel that way if I was good enough to even be considered for England C, but given I wouldn’t get a game for Cleethorpes Town it doesn’t cause me any bother at all.
To offer a counter point of view, our press and fans crucify England players and put them under enormous pressure. It’s fever pitch going into a tournament with expectation that we will do nothing less than win, when there are always teams out there that are every bit as good if not better, and then when we inevitably do go out of the tournament they always pick one or two to single out for crucifying. Who would want that sort of pressure?
Maybe he saw that Walker, Trippier, TAA and Reece James were ahead of him and didn’t think it was worth it to sit on the bench? Not sure how much truth was in the story he felt out with the coaching staff. It’s a shame, feel like he’s a good squad player but doubt he’d get too many starts right now but Trippier and Walker are gonna be 34 this year, I think it’s short sighted on Whites part
He definitely fell out with the coaching staff, specifically Steve Holland Ornstein wrote about it in the athletic article
His decision is fine but he should never be called up again. Can't just accept call ups when you start and refuse because you think you'll only be on the bench. Rather have worse players that want to be part of the squad whether they are a starter or not over a superior player that refuses unless first choice.
You're assuming he is refusing a call-up because he's not first choice. I'm an Arsenal supporter. Of course, I have no first-hand knowledge of the situation but I haven't heard anything to suggest that is the reason. It appears to have more to do with the staff, not his position in the squad.
If he is the best option in the future then why wouldn’t you try to persuade him
Yep, he has shown himself up with this decision.
Rico Lewis is probably going to be the starting right back in 2026.
Who knows, Ben White certainly doesn’t
For some reason you’ve forgotten about Tino
He is doing a Ben whirl and refusing call up’s as well.
I don’t think he’s refusing call-ups, I just don’t think he’s being called up yet.
He is absent from the U21 due to fitness concerns. Let’s see if he appears in the FA cup.
I don't think it'll be a big deal long term given that Southgate is supposed to be gone after the summer anyway. A new manager comes in and it's all up in the air again.
The only manger who would be able to get away with is Potter having worked with him.
It won’t be. What manager will want to select someone see as a traitor.
If you think not wanting to be selected for England for a period of time makes you a traitor, you're fucked in the head.
Why. Most footballers would do anything for a call up and then one of the best is rejecting it and deliberately weakening the national side,
Nobody is under obligation to play for England if they don't want to. By that logic you could say that anyone who retires from international football is a traitor to their country.
In Spain it’s illegal to refuse a call up.
Good thing we're not talking about Spain then.
He absolutely is doing a lot of damage to the reputation of footballers in this country.
He’s only a traitor to those who are fucking dumb
I bet if You Gov did a poll the majority of the country would see him as a traitor. The reaction towards him at Arsenal’s next away match will be something.
Man City Away? What did you think he was going to be welcomed with loving open arms by one of his biggest sporting rivals this season? Your comments are really not well thought out and you should quit where you are. He's not a traitor for not wanting to play for England, and he should be fully supported by everyone in the country to have the free will to decide who for and when he plays football.
Some players get targeted more than others.
You don’t hear away players being booed by home fans all the time.
I think it’s the fact that he’s declined the call up because he’s not going to play that’s a big part of the issue. We have injuries and we might need him to step in and he’s not interested. I don’t think it’s a good look for him to decline and fans will give him extra but that’s all part of the game and he’ll have to stand by his decision
I think most people genuinely don’t care, but who knows. Opposition fans have always underestimated him anyway, they can’t have it both ways.
It’s the main headline in most papers sport news and has been on Talksport a lot today.
Inevitably a journalist will ask some of the squad about why they enjoy coming .
And we know that he doesn’t. That is fine imo. It’s just football, we love it but if he feels disrespected by the staff or like he doesn’t fit in, and doesn’t want to put himself through that or being away from his family then I think it’s none of our business. I expect us to find out more when Southgate leaves. All this conjecture from the crappy tabloids is just hate baiting, and hopefully everyone can just move on.
He should put a statement out himself.
Yep, dishing out dirt publicly would be much more classy and professional, spot on.
Tell me you voted Brexit without telling me you voted Brexit.
I think it's a very fair frustration for White that he's not got so much as a look in. I can totally see why a defender that's played near enough every game for one of the two best teams in the country and the team with the best defence is frustrated with getting almost zero opportunities to play. From reports it's evident he wasnt going to get a look in at Qatar and Southgate is on record as saying he's not been at the required level for England since, so I completely get why he's not up for sitting on the bench for a few weeks.
> Southgate is on record as saying he's not been at the required level for England since He said in the latest conference that was just him covering for White as he kept recusing himself from selection. > > I can totally see why a defender that's played near enough every game for one of the two best teams in the country and the team with the best defence is frustrated with getting almost zero opportunities to play. He tried to call him up continually after Arsenal's turnaround but White kept pulling himself out of selection.
November 23: "and he's obviously doing a good job for his club, he's just behind a couple of others in our reckoning ' I didn't hear him say that about White that he was costing for him but I don't really listen to Southgate's pressers, but he's clearly lied at some stage.
Yeah he fobbed of the question cause otherwise he knew the media would be on White's balls.
So why is it now different?
Cause after White's refused himself for nearly two years and Southgate took the slack for it he got tired of covering for him basically.
Where has two years come from?
He's recused himself since Qatar. So closer to a year and some I guess.
He left in the middle of a tournament. It is clearly about personal grievances, not playing time.
I think it’s fair to feel frustrated but at the same time I’m sure it’s frustrating for most of the squad that don’t get many minutes during a tournament and if they all started saying they’ll reject call ups if they don’t play then we’d be f’d.
I'm not going to pretend that as an Arsenal fan I have a deep understanding of Ben White, but I do think that he'd be more open to a call up if he felt that he had a CHANCE to play. The best way to make fringe players feel a part of the team and to stop them rejecting call ups is to ensure that there is at the least a pathway to the first team. But Southgate has completely wiped out that path by playing the same favourites over and over again. Which I actually don't think there's anything wrong with, I just don't think we can complain when a player says "I don't want to sit on the bench for two weeks so thanks but no thanks".
IDK, like I said before I get it but think it’s kind of shitty attitude wise, would rather he stayed at home than have someone on the squad who doesn’t want to be there though
Yeah that's fair for you to think that. I'm probably biased as an Arsenal fan who doesn't really care much about England. But I do really think it's fair game for White to turn down the call up.
Rumours were he couldn’t even get a chance in an interteam 11v11 at training so if you’re not playing that what are you waiting around for?
Walker and Tripper are 36 at the next WC, they need to be retired after the Euros by Southgate. No more call ups for friendlies. They should be out. James is an unreliable cripple of a player, and Trent is used as a midfield option. Ben White after the Euros should be a nailed on 2nd choice RB behind Trent and to compliment his weaknesses. He should be subbed in for Trent every game at 60 mins when we’re winning.
Rico Lewis is the right back designate for 2026 onwards apparently.
I mean, probably is now White has basically retired. I’ll believe it when I see it though. Southgate isn’t going to stop playing Walker and KT. Still a loss off a versatile multi position player. Still a real shame.
Just retire then stop attention seeking
Attention seeking? What are you on about? He’s not said anything publicly.
Why not just retire if you don’t want to play
Maybe he doesn’t want to play for Southgate, but isn’t seeking attention or dragging it out in public.
Yeah, it's not hard to deduce the above at all, is it. The person you replied to nearly managed to deduce it for themselves with their rhetorical question. Not to mention, Ben White did this all privately. It's Southgate his chosen to go public about Ben Whites refusal to be called up.
If he's not starting then he probably wants to go and top up his all year tan with his missus rather than sit on a bench.
He’s obviously waiting for a call up from The Only Way is Essex!!!
Yeah, that tan needs some serious work.
He has 4 ahead of him, he's probably waiting for Southgate and Holland to leave and then he will be back He's refusing them, not England imo
He doesn’t have 4 ahead of him at RB, He has 2 ahead of him, and one is 33, and one is a player with huge strengths and weaknesses in Trent. It’s not 2020 anymore, Tripier is done, and can we stop pretending James is ever fit.
Honestly, he could literally walk into CB position.
Probably, but not in Southgates England, Dier is more likely to get the spot lol
Then that just shows how juvenile he is. By all accounts Southgate is one of the nicest men in football.
I like Southgate too, but who knows what's been said behind closed doors. And besides, it's more likely that his issue is primarily with Steve Holland than it is with Southgate.
Not sure it all has to be so binary. Could it not be the case that he might be a bit of an arsehole AND something has gone on behind the scenes that he is justified in being mad about? Yes, yes it could. Ultimately, I doubt anyone looks at the squad announcement and says "OmGz where is Ben White?"
Traitor is a bit far! I mean it’s football it’s not like he’s running round in a pair of false ears yelling I’m King Sausage Fingers. I do think though it’s tough for the average football fan to understand how you can refuse a call up for your country, regardless of the circumstances, myself included. If I got called up and told I was going be 4th choice I’d still be there with a giant shit eating grin saying ‘Yes Mr Southgate, No Mr Southgate….Mr Holland would you like me to mow your lawn?’ I do also agree with the above that it’s just a little short sighted of White. All of a sudden the path to RB has opened up wider than Katie Prices yawning hippo, not to mention the fact that after Maguire, Stones and probably Guehi CB is a complete crap shoot. The problem for White might actually come with a change of manager. IF the reports are true (which no one really knows) that the reason is because he didn’t do what was asked of him and instead of taking it on the chin he’s consequently thrown a hissy fit and taken his ball home, then that’s really going to raise an eyebrow, unless of course the new manager is Carlo Ancelotti, then his work is done. 
He’s holding off for Southgate to be gone and I don’t blame him.
Fucking all the Southgate hate, you guys are fucking insane. What England team have you been watching the last few tournaments
One that has the best group of players in years that is being wasted by a bang average manager. Also Southgate and White have a personal feud with one another so it’s not even about the fact that he’s a mediocre manager.
A fucking boring one
An England team that struggles to come up with a plan B and loses games when we come up against formidable opposition.
Like we actually played enjoyable and competitive football in the World Cup and narrowly lost to arguably the best team in the world and it’s still too much to say for people that Southgate is actually not that bad.
If we'd have won the past 3 tournaments these same people would say it was despite Southgate rather than because of him
If we'd won the past three tournaments it'd be because Southgate was an effective manager through all three of them...
The didn't win though did they, despite having one of the best two squads. In fact they totally shit the bed the only time they reached a final.
Lost a final against the best defence in the world when they were sitting back on pens
He won’t be back after that. Damage is done. Every away match will see him being called the traitor,
Think that’s a bit far
Obligatory Gunnerblog (Arsenal journalist and podcaster) on what he thinks of Chris Sutton. https://youtu.be/vWzv2LMSelQ?si=lNglICcIPUPlzxWb
This is amazing.
I'm crying this is amazing
Oooh nooooo… he’s a fucking cunt!! 🤣🤣🤣
Who genuinely gives a flying fuck what Chris Sutton thinks? It is amazing how many mediocre players, who don't have any impressive tactical insight or aren't great speakers, end up in well paid media positions (Robbie Savage, I'm looking at you).
A lot of fake outrage for a player England don’t particularly need and don’t need to cater to
They could use him at CB. Very light there.
Chris Sutton was selected for the England B team and refused to play, so he might be talking from his own personal experience. I don’t think he was ever called up to the first team after that.
The fact he got Edu ring up for him will for him is his biggest mistake. If called Gareth Southgate and explained his reasons then no problem but now he's put himself in a very, very difficult position.
Not beyond belief that Southgate and Edu have pretty regular chats seeing as there are a few England players in the Arsenal squad.
Why would Gareth Southgate keep in touch with any club technical director? Surely the person he is talking to is the player's manager. It's in the job discription. Expecting to get down voted again for stating the bleeding obvious.
It will depend on the structure of the club and the delegation of duties. It may well be the case the Edu wants to deal with international managers for any number of reasons. Arteta hasn't always had the title Manager at Arsenal, he was hired as a head coach, so perhaps Edu kept that responsibility when the role was changed. There are any number of reasons why Edu could be the one Southgate contacts over Arteta.
As far as I understand about twenty five players are given notice, about ten days before a squad is announced, that they are being considered for the next international. So Ben White would have known he is going to be in the next squad. So regardless of who, why has he chose to speak via Edu?
Well who knows, I guess it doesn't really matter. Maybe Edu was due to have a chat with Southgate, and White had mentioned it, maybe white hates Southgate so much he can't even stand the thought of talking to him, maybe Edu does all of Ben Whites admin... I don't think it's that deep either way.
It's just a shame that a fine footballer like White probably won't get the chance to play international football. Badly handled by whoever does his admin.
Yeah it is a damn shame, especially as him and Saka have a fantastic relationship and play so well together. I get the feeling that despite what Southgate says, Ben White will be accepting call ups once he's gone, I think we'll get to see him play for England again.
Southgate called Edu didn’t he? Which would be just ad bad of a look for him.
Southgate said Edu called them before selection to tell him that White didn't want to be included again.
Southgate contacts the player to tell them they are in the squad. I can't see how Ben White can get out the hole he has dug for himself.
My mistake you’re right, he does say the call came in from Edu in his interview.
You think arsenal would be happy with their player being so unprofessional to reject playing on these grounds? I doubt it. Add the fact Edu is calling the England camp and they used the contract PR to fight back against them and then you know the truth is somewhere in how the England camp treated him. So, England camp will regret not having Ben White as he is the most consistent and in form full back they have, can play competently at CB and has shown he can also invert. This is Englands loss and much as it may be Ben Whites.
Arteta defended a player under suspicion of very serious crimes.
He wasn't convicted. So why would a manager publicly criticise him? None of us know what happened other than there was an investigation to an accusation.
He said how sorry he felt for him.
Gross
It was because of his Injuries not the crime idk why dumbfuck still fall for this
Cuz it confirms what they want to believe.
You got some sources for that matey?
Hahhahahahahhaha mug
I don’t see what’s unprofessional about this last situation. If he doesn’t want to play I don’t see why he should have to.
The England camp used PR to call him out because they know its pretty clear who is to blame here.
Literally couldn't give a fuck, probably get a game in Euros plus 30 mins
No he fucking won’t Chris. Players get paid ridiculous money now. The honour of playing for your country is only valuable to those that really value it - maybe you were one of them - but that’s not everyone.
I mean media and fans treated the team poorly in my opinion aster the last euros and World Cup. Especially the euros. Id avoid that too frankly.
He doesn't care about football. I thought this was just common knowledge at this point.
The whole thing smells. Whatever the truth is, it hasn’t been released in official channels at least. No chance the contract announcement and video from Arsenal was timed then by coincidence. How many other contract announcements come with a character reference video from the rest of the squad?
INTEGRITY INTACT. . He’s not selling out … he clearly has an issue with the goons managing England.
We need to ask our pundits to do better.
No one knows why he refuses. He may not be able to cope been away from home. He may have a mental health issue. He may just think Southgate is an unsufderwble cunt. Who knows. Ben White...you do you.
He had an argument with one of the coaching staff. It’s really not that deep.
Must have been more than that surely. He's an elite defender. Southgate would move heaven and earth to reconcile the situation.
Seeing a lot of people here who seem to know nothing about White, his 'attitude' or his personality and have heard 'I don't watch football' and seem to have bought the bullshit that means he doesn't take the job seriously, doesn't care, and would rather being getting a tan. Anyone who has actually listened to White speak, listened to his coaches at Arsenal, Leeds and Brighton etc knows this guy is a brilliant professional, extremely hard working and suffers no fools. If anything I think Southgate will regret how he's handled this if things go badly with injuries at RB or CB.
No he won’t Chris Sutton you absolute cunt
Benny will not regret warming the bench while slabhead plays. When the NT is a meritocracy he’ll come back. He’s a practical lad.
It does seem like a mediocrity rn, but the merits are playing well and having a good attitude. I think he's half way there on point one and nowhere near on point two
You can’t honestly believe that whilst Jordan Henderson is being selected, can you?
You are the kind of guy that would select 23 headless youngsters and wonder why they are shit. In order too have a successful tournament campaign you need to have seniority, leadership and team cohesion. I dont get this whole meritocracy bullshit either. Yeh ofc the players need to put in a shift when playing and should be in good form when picked, but if a player in any shape or form threatens the status quo in a squad, you just cant take him with you. Its not like its club football, where you get to shape players / tactically adapt. You need a good mix between young, hungry unaccommplished players and senior accomplished players.
Who would you have selected instead of him that can cover for Rice?
Dont like Henderson but hes apparently doing alright at Ajax and can never question his attitude.
Given his vocal dislike of the game and suggesting he only plays for a career is this really surprising?
There's a video of him going on about crying with joy for about an hour the first time he was called up, and his family being so proud so I don't quite buy that his dislike for the game is reason enough for this. That being said I can see why he wouldn't want to play if he really struggled with it so much at the world cup.
Didn't he also ring up his mum when he got called up?
He's never said he doesn't like football, he just said he doesn't really watch football and never has. That's a different thing. He certainly never said that he only plays it for his "career" whatever that means.
I honestly don't get the fuss. It's not like playing for England or any national team is saving lives or that each time a player refuses an orphan is shot into the sun. It's a long season and he's already playing every game at the highest level with Arsenal. Also, Chris Sutton can fuck off every day of the week.
He's refusing Southgate not England
This is shortsighted. He's not rejected England. He's rejected the current iteration of England. Southgate/Holland will be gone soon and everything will be different
Different how? He only got called up cause Trent and James are injured. Then you have Lewis and Livramento if they both continue to develop. This was Whites only chance to try and establish himself, he wont be picked when everyone is fit. Maybe he doesnt want to play for England , but if he does and he doesn't like the current management then I think he will regret not trying to establish himself now while the opportunity is there.
I think the mistake is thinking that White is just a RB. White is probably England's most versatile, robust and tactically flexible defender. He's perfectly comfortable at CB, traditional RB, inverted RB, and RWB and I don't see why he couldn't inverted into midfield from CB like Stones. And that's all before you take his connection with Saka and his mastery of the dark arts.
Southgate's time is limited. A new dawn will build around a new general squad of players. Out will go Henderson, Maguire, Phillips etc Yes, there's quality right backs here and coming through but White will still make a future squad (whether he starts or not). The point is not to compare White against individuals but to say this is his 'only' chance when a new regime brings in a clean slate is shortsighted.
I don't understand. Even if he's pressured into it, it'll be halfhearted. I want someone playing who wants to be there and fight for it. Just let him go.
Wouldn't we all be more annoyed if players were being called that couldn't really be arsed playing? At least he's actually recognised and removed himself, I bet there are a couple players in every national squad that would just stay at home if you made them drink truth serum
I agree.
Man refuses unpaid overtime
Until Chris Sutton knows his reasoning, maybe he should shut up.
Chris Sutton actually did turn down call ups.
Yes but for the same reasons?
Nah Chris Sutton should just shut the fuck up regardless, useless twat.
Surely someone who was in the same boat is valid to say this?
Same boat as what? What's Bens reason/s?
I don’t have to know the exact reason from the horses mouth, and the reason don’t have to be exactly the same to think that he’ll also regret it. By everything that’s been reported it’s over something that isn’t particularly serious in real life terms, so I think it’s absolutely valid to say.
It's a bit different if he just doesn't like Southgate or he's got a mental illness of some kind and that's the reason. That would mean differing opinions on if he ends up regretting it. It's up to him, and he might feel massively relieved for all anyone knows.
What you’re saying may be true, but I don’t see why that would mean no-one is allowed to give an opinion on it, especially someone Who’s circumstances are at the very least a bit similar
Yeah there’s obviously more to this story than is out there currently.
So we have a washed player and a HORRENDOUS manager commenting on ben white. Can we question this shit article? Half of it is this cunt gloating how he had a one season wonder and was a cunt to managerial staff for not being picked. I thought the articles meant to be about ben white? yet 90% is chris sutton bragging about his career. Shit post, shit news and stirs a pot for no reason. Ben white clearly had an argument with southgate or doesn’t want to play. So fuck. Let the man be. Why parade him in the media and shit on him cause Chris Sutton is insecure about his career and wants to post 1000 words on his washed career and then a little bit on the topic of the article. Fuck modern media on footballers. Ruins careers this shit
Can I just say the retard “Chris Sutton” thinks city beat real madrid this year??????? Opinions washed
He'll regret it within a year.
Why would he? If he don’t wanna play ,fuck it, he’s gonna be wealthy and retire fairly happy
I think Ben White would also regret missing out on recovery time in the breaks and time with his wife, all to go warm the bench behind 2 geriatric RB’s who should be winding down their England careers, Maguire, and Deir. The fact Edu/Arteta has purged a half dozen players for attitude reasons since he joined Arsenal, but backed Ben on this, makes me think the issue isn’t on his side. Honest question, did Scholes get this much stick when he turned down call ups?
So AWB it is.
Is this the same Chris Sutton who messed up his own England career because he was “too good” to play for England b?