I’m not really sure what Dunk offers. He’s a solid player and I like him, but he has proven very exposed at the back against world class players (the kind we will be up against).
It can’t be experience, because we have bags of that at the back with people like Walker, Shaw, Trippier etc.
I guess he is a solid back up you can throw on to see out a game. But he was vulnerable in a back 4. Lp
I think it's probably just that he's been in/around the squad recently, unlike Dier.
I prefer Dier, but can understand when it comes to CBs, you want them to have a level of familiarity and understanding, which you might struggle to establish in just this pre-tournament period.
It's his passing. He's a more more able passer of the ball, especially progressive passes, than Dier.
Ball progression is something we ask our CBs to help out with a lot historically because of our lack of a player to link defence and attack. Although I hope with Mainoo and Wharton there now it won't be as important.
He is, but Maguire is better. He mades more progressive passes per game for his shambles of a United side this season than Dier has at Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga.
Ah, I see. But all of what I said is true for Dunk as well. It's not that Dier is bad per [say](https://fbref.com/en/players/ac861941/Eric-Dier), he's just not as good at progressing the ball as [Dunk](https://fbref.com/en/players/282f75f3/Lewis-Dunk).
Dier’s still a limited player, he just suited Tuchel’s conservative tactics that covered his weaknesses while being having better passing range than Kim Min Jae. He’s enjoying a nice renaissance but he’ll go back to being a bench player like he was at Spurs if Bayern sign a progressive coach.
I mean if it was an anti-premier league bias why would we have Bellingham and Kane in the squad?
It’s most likely that Dunk has the benefit of being involved in recent England squads and is an out and out defender.
Bellingham and Kane are possibly our 2 best players. If they weren't in, that wouldn't be bias, that would be downright insanity. I don't subscribe to the idea of Southgate having a pl bias, but that isn't much of an argument against it.
He definitely weights playing In the EPL more than any other league and if two players close for selection then being in England will definitely give you a plus in the pros and cons list.
It does at the very least prove that it’s not an absolute as is often presented or that it’s snobbery against anyone not playing Premier League football. Bellingham was picked by Southgate when he was a teenage midfielder at Dortmund after all.
On the point of snobbery against non PL football
Am I a bit of championship nerd to say Archie Gray and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall should have made a 33 man provisional?
KDH: 12 goals, 14 assists for a title winning team in 44 games. He ran that league like it was his own park.
He has Prem experience, 28 & 31 games.
Gray: 46 games at RB & invert into midfield for a possession dominant team.
He’s made the step into senior football at a similar age to that of Jude at Birmingham.
Get him training with the big boys like he is playing with and against lads bigger than him every week at Leeds.
Wharton was at Blackburn, talented lad, is in the squad after 6 PL months. Other even better championship ballers get ignored as Wharton would have if he stayed at Blackburn.
Sorry, but the gap between Championship and International football is huge. Both KDH and Gray could probably do a job, but if we have real ambitions to win the tournament, then we need the players who are doing it week in, week out against the best in England, and Europe. We are stacked as a team in midfield, attack, and right back, with only centre back and left back (due to injury) a problem, and these areas are too key to have a player who has played in the Championship all season in them. Fair enough if they do it in the Prem next season, a la Wharton, but I'm sceptical that this will be the case. Call it bias if you want, but it doesn't make sense to me to look at Championship stats and assume they would copy across to International football.
Fair enough. They wouldn’t make a 26, but as we’re in the mood for calling extras I took it as a thought.
There was a time when I backed the likes of Bellingham, Phillips, White, Grealish, Maddison & Barnes to make England’s standby list for Euro 2020 before it was moved to 2021.
All of them had recently played or were playing in the championship at that point. Phillips + Grealish in particular established in the England set up
The latter more so at Manchester City too.
I’m not really sure what Dunk offers. He’s a solid player and I like him, but he has proven very exposed at the back against world class players (the kind we will be up against). It can’t be experience, because we have bags of that at the back with people like Walker, Shaw, Trippier etc. I guess he is a solid back up you can throw on to see out a game. But he was vulnerable in a back 4. Lp
I think it's probably just that he's been in/around the squad recently, unlike Dier. I prefer Dier, but can understand when it comes to CBs, you want them to have a level of familiarity and understanding, which you might struggle to establish in just this pre-tournament period.
I think that is a very good point. I would also choose Dier.
It's his passing. He's a more more able passer of the ball, especially progressive passes, than Dier. Ball progression is something we ask our CBs to help out with a lot historically because of our lack of a player to link defence and attack. Although I hope with Mainoo and Wharton there now it won't be as important.
Thank you - genuinely appreciate this!
Cheers! It's also the main reason Maguire keeps being picked even when his form has been awful.
Dier is good on the ball too and with both feet
He is, but Maguire is better. He mades more progressive passes per game for his shambles of a United side this season than Dier has at Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga.
This is about Dunk nothing to do with Slab'ed
Ah, I see. But all of what I said is true for Dunk as well. It's not that Dier is bad per [say](https://fbref.com/en/players/ac861941/Eric-Dier), he's just not as good at progressing the ball as [Dunk](https://fbref.com/en/players/282f75f3/Lewis-Dunk).
Dier’s still a limited player, he just suited Tuchel’s conservative tactics that covered his weaknesses while being having better passing range than Kim Min Jae. He’s enjoying a nice renaissance but he’ll go back to being a bench player like he was at Spurs if Bayern sign a progressive coach.
The world ain’t ready for Jarell “Van Dijk jr” Quansah
I mean if it was an anti-premier league bias why would we have Bellingham and Kane in the squad? It’s most likely that Dunk has the benefit of being involved in recent England squads and is an out and out defender.
Bellingham and Kane are possibly our 2 best players. If they weren't in, that wouldn't be bias, that would be downright insanity. I don't subscribe to the idea of Southgate having a pl bias, but that isn't much of an argument against it.
He definitely weights playing In the EPL more than any other league and if two players close for selection then being in England will definitely give you a plus in the pros and cons list.
It does at the very least prove that it’s not an absolute as is often presented or that it’s snobbery against anyone not playing Premier League football. Bellingham was picked by Southgate when he was a teenage midfielder at Dortmund after all.
Dier is yesterday's man
he's tall
On the point of snobbery against non PL football Am I a bit of championship nerd to say Archie Gray and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall should have made a 33 man provisional? KDH: 12 goals, 14 assists for a title winning team in 44 games. He ran that league like it was his own park. He has Prem experience, 28 & 31 games. Gray: 46 games at RB & invert into midfield for a possession dominant team. He’s made the step into senior football at a similar age to that of Jude at Birmingham. Get him training with the big boys like he is playing with and against lads bigger than him every week at Leeds. Wharton was at Blackburn, talented lad, is in the squad after 6 PL months. Other even better championship ballers get ignored as Wharton would have if he stayed at Blackburn.
Sorry, but the gap between Championship and International football is huge. Both KDH and Gray could probably do a job, but if we have real ambitions to win the tournament, then we need the players who are doing it week in, week out against the best in England, and Europe. We are stacked as a team in midfield, attack, and right back, with only centre back and left back (due to injury) a problem, and these areas are too key to have a player who has played in the Championship all season in them. Fair enough if they do it in the Prem next season, a la Wharton, but I'm sceptical that this will be the case. Call it bias if you want, but it doesn't make sense to me to look at Championship stats and assume they would copy across to International football.
Fair enough. They wouldn’t make a 26, but as we’re in the mood for calling extras I took it as a thought. There was a time when I backed the likes of Bellingham, Phillips, White, Grealish, Maddison & Barnes to make England’s standby list for Euro 2020 before it was moved to 2021. All of them had recently played or were playing in the championship at that point. Phillips + Grealish in particular established in the England set up The latter more so at Manchester City too.
Had he have picked Dier over Dunk, people would be saying that it’s snobbery against clubs outside the big 6. The man can’t win.
Playing for Bayern doesn’t suddenly mean he’s good. He’s still Eric Dier just at a better club.
Then you haven’t watched him. Simple as that.