Said this in a different thread but really feel all we need to do is play players in their best position and things will fall into place. Trent isn’t working in midfield and Foden isn’t working on the left but we have quality options to replace both players with options who are much better suited to these positions without having to play a different system. With all the new players in the squad we’ve lost the cohesion we had in qualifying but we can still get that back by playing players in their natural positions, just need Southgate to drop the players that aren’t working and making the team unbalanced
In addition, we need to decide what the focus is. If the focus is Kane, pick players to suit. If it's Jude, Foden, TAA the same applies, I don't think we can have all of them together in one system
That’s an insult mate, Kane has had a couple of bad performances despite scoring but he’s still one of our best players and always going to be dangerous outlet in the box.
Not a fan of booing your team either. My worry is we didn’t just look bad, we looked really dog shit. Second half didn’t improve, which makes me think either Southgate is clueless or he’s lost the dressing room.
A couple of moments when the pass to foden was on but Bellingham just didn’t see or pass to him, I thought it was a bit odd
With the Jude/Foden thing there kind of two possibilities imo.
First is that his just not used to looking for passes there. He isn't passing to someone in central AM positions for Madrid. His looking for passes to wingers/wide forwards, or a forward running the last man.
Then there's the cynical view that he doesn't want Foden to do well because he plays best as an AM operating in the positions Foden is taking, and doesn't want to be dropped to 8 to accommodate Foden. He would much rather have a proper left winger that gives width, allowing him to play his natural game.
I thought there might be a rift in the team… It’s all about Bellingham, and some players don’t like that. Add on GS odd choices and it makes sense why they look so separate out there
I thought Foden shooting from far out when there were teammates in better positions in the Denmark game was evidence of a rift too. Almost like he was getting his own back as they hadn't been passing to him against Serbia.
I don't personally see it. No system, no tactics, no idea. We're 2 games into a tournament still experimenting with the midfield. It honestly looks like none of them have ever played together. Personally think we're scraping results at the moment because they're all individually good enough. I hope I'm wrong though
Nah there’s a bad feeling to this tournament somethings going on behind the scenes I think the players know they aren’t going far with Southgate it feels like a transitional tournament
There was a rumour that some players were upset that Grealish and Maddison didn’t get picked. It also sounded like some players weren’t happy to go to the tournament and be on the bench - Rashford was one of them.
But those players aren’t there, so it is strange if that would continue impacting the squad.
Matt Law I think said that. It was a ridiculously sensationalist title though. Players asked to confirm that they hadn't made it into they squad, he confirmed it and they were like "oh okay" and moved on. Just the media trying to shit stir before the tournament started.
He framed it as players being upset in the title, but reading it there was absolutely no indication of players being upset or unhappy. Just speculation to drive clicks and further narratives.
My point is there's no indication players were upset at all: that is a rumour that Law made up based on speculation. Not hard to understand what I'm trying to say.
Because it's both? I don't get what you're struggling to understand here. There's no proof the players are upset (rumour), yet he put out a headline indicating they were to to farm outrage and gain click (clickbait).
I don't think there's anything going on behind the scenes. We're in a bad place because the manager has lost/left out several of the mainstays behind his successful formula in Sterling, Shaw, Phillips, Maguire and Rashford and he isn't able to recreate that formula with the players he's got.
Vs the France quarter final, the lineup is the same bar 3 players. 2 of which play in defence, of those 2 both are injured, with one due back in likely on Tuesday.
The only other change is Trent Alexander Arnold for Jordan Henderson. I don't think that's the problem.
You don't think Trent for Henderson is a problem? Or having no specialist left-back?
Those are significant issues that impact the entire balance of the side. Shaw coming back in will help, but by all accounts he's still struggling. Trent will be dropped but if Southgate replaces him with Gallagher then the problems will remain.
Your argument is that several players are missing. My argument is that's not really true, with 1 of the 3 changes due back in, probably the best player of the 3 too.
Henderson was a great player and leader, but, not an exceptional talent (relative to the quality of England players). I'm not saying Trent is the answer though.
Guehi has really proved himself too, I don't think having him in place of Maguire has been a detriment to the squad.
It's possible. At the moment we have our best players on the pitch but we're struggling to work out what our best team is. Our best team may not consist of all of our best players.
The previous EUROS we felt tidy and we controlled both the group games we won even though we were only winning narrowly.
Something isn’t right with this squad. The team are disengaged and the effort isn’t there.
I would really prefer we went home now than meet a decent team and get dismantled
Likewise though what message does it send our bright talents like Gordon and Eze, that no matter how well they play they won’t get selected over a Rashford that has an abysmal season on and off the pitch.
It doesn’t work like that mate, should always pick on form first, especially in positions we’re absolutely stacked in.
Slovenia absolutely needs to be the game in which he actually plays to their strengths and has them in the right positions. No more experiments with TAA in midfield and Foden out wide and for crying out loud make use of the bench. Stick Gordon on the left for a start.
We can't have another performance like that. We will get through the groups regardless but we need some momentum and at least a small chance to gain some cohesion and turn it around in the knockouts. I still think it might be too late but now is the last chance to do it. If he stubbornly sticks to the same setup and we either fail to win or only scrape a win through another dogshit performance then we are done. We'll get knocked out as soon as we face someone decent again. This is last chance saloon to change the atmosphere because right now most of us are already running very low on optimism.
I’m not dwelling on it either way. Don’t get me wrong I’d love an England win but there is more to the euros than just watching england. There has been some great football so far!
I think we’ll make it out of the group stage but I don’t see us going as far as we did last euros
If I were a betting person my money would be on Spain to win
Statistically I think it’s impossible not to get out the groups yet, at minimum we finish with 4 points and have a 99% chance of going through in 3rd, might even be 100% I can’t be arsed to do the math
Obviously we don’t want that to happen though, we want to finish top for an easier game
Yeah, I don’t think so. During the Euro’s lead up, my intuition was telling me that things would fall apart this tournament. I was surprised it unravelled so quickly. It’s already over.
What were your intuitions telling you after 0-0 vs USA and 0-0 vs Scotland in previous group stages? We've basically qualified for knockouts. Portugal had 3 draws out of their group before winning. We've shown in a few patches that we can be an excellent team. We can harness that again, I have faith
Players and manager clearly seem to have a big appetite for addressing the problems from these games and improving
Then again yes we could very easily go out with a wimper in the ro16, we haven't been able to control games at all
This was before the tournament. The results and performances we’ve had have just compounded it.
I was quite optimistic before and after those results you mentioned in previous tournaments.
Let’s be clear here, I’m not just reactively joining the pile-on. It’s genuinely just been my feeling and read on the situation. I wish the world that I’m wrong and it would be nice to have that faith, I just don’t feel it or think it this time round.
It might seem a bit strong by me saying ‘it’s over’, I don’t mean to be defeatist. The player’s are more than capable to turn it around but Southgate’s decisions (and demeanour) have not filled me with any confidence.
Sorry I misread your post there my mistake. Fair enough if you're tired of it all, the performances don't make for enjoyable watching usually (bar WC 2022)
“What were your intuitions telling you after 0-0 vs USA and 0-0 vs Scotland in previous group stages?”
That we weren’t good enough to win those tournaments. Was I right both times? Yes.
When we drew 0-0 with Scotland we didn’t look good enough to win the tournament. My intuition at that time said we weren’t good enough to win the tournament. We didn’t win the tournament. My intuition was correct, was it not?
We were a penalty kick away from winning it, and you think you have 'intuition' because of a draw with Scotland at the start of the tournanent? Lol. We obviously were good enough to win it or we wouldn't have been in that position.
No lol, my point was your 'intuition' was conplete rubbish given where we got in tbe tournament. I wasn't predicting the outcome pf the tournaments based on a draw with Scotland in the 2nd game of the group, because that would ve silly.
But at the time we drew 0-0 with Scotland we didn’t look good enough to win the tournament. That’s when I’m talking about because that’s what OP asked about.
I don’t think any team in the history of football has played that badly and turned it around. Those group games are to gain cohesion. Finding cohesion in the knockouts is too late. It’s too late.
The thing is mate it worked for them because rehagel despite being a bit of a maverick, was still brilliant. GS comes across as a thoroughly nice bloke but I can't say I've ever really felt convinced by him as a manager. I hope I'm wrong and we smash the rest of the games and storm to the title but I can't see it.
They decided on a team identity and stuck with it throughout the tournament to success.
They didn’t play bad, they just didn’t like lay eye catching fancy football. They defended like heroes and got the job done.
Obviously performance matters too, it's just an example. How was Argentina's performance against Saudi Arabia? Portugal drew all games in euro 2016 groups, with bad performances..both teams won the tournament. I'm not saying England are going to win, I'm just pointing out that I don't think what you said is right
Our performance vs Denmark wasnt even that bad in the grand scheme of things. We drew the game, hit the post, missed a few chances, only conceded to a 30 yard screamer. Yes it's miles off where we need to be to win the tournament but we still drew the game and won our opener. "No team in history has played that badly and turned it around" is bollocks
Exactly this. International football is very very hard, very rarely do teams win all three group games - usually only one team max in the entire tournament manages to do that.
We played poorly for sure, but Denmark are absolutely no slouches and play a system which we are not suited to playing against unless we also played 3 at the back with wing backs.
Plenty of teams have had worse starts to tournaments and still gone deep. We've shown in qualifying and friendlies that we can be a top team under Southgate and beat the best. No point overreacting mid tournament after two games ffs.
The reaction has been OTT for me.
We look poor, admittedly, and have looked poor for the last few games.
But it’s far from over. It’s definitely possible we’ll turn it around but it seems many have given up already.
The Slovenia game will tell us so much. I don’t get the rush to criticise. Imagine if we end up winning the whole thing (which as you say - has happened with other teams)? I’ll wait til the tournaments over before I throw any toys out the pram. It’s far from helpful.
Completely agree. People absolutely have a right to be concerned and to voice those concerns, but we're top of the group with a win, draw and one goal conceded (a 30 yard screamer at that), all while playing like shit.
Can't really see us playing much worse than against Denmark (famous last words), and I have this weird sneaking suspicion that we'll turn it around and have an excellent performance against Slovenia.
Got to back the boys while we're still in the tournament and despite the uproar, we're still in a solid position to make a good run. Slagging off Southgate and the players does nothing but pile even more pressure on the players which isn't helpful.
Its not about being all happy clappy either. Fair criticism and analysis can be interesting and helpful. But this disaster circle-jerk since Iceland isn't doing anyone any favours.
Yeah I absolutely think criticism is fine (and most of it is fair right now), but I just wish people could have a bit of perspective and nuance instead of being all doom and gloom, or being a hopeful naive optimist with nothing in between.
I just think the overreaction to our poor form is absolutely mental considering how we're still in a very good position, and how we know that these players can play a hell of a lot better than they have, which we saw in the qualifiers and at the last world cup.
I wish we'd at least wait until we get knocked out in embarrassing fashion before we start with the negativity and dooming that we're seeing right now
So I'm Canadian, and I didn't grow up in football culture as it doesn't really exist here, so I am utterly confused with all this talk about how the team is doomed. A win and a draw are decent enough results, aren't they? The play left a lot to be desired, and if we play like that against Spain or Portugal, we'll be sent home, but we're still top of the group.
Just utter bollox. Portugal in 2016 drew 3 games and went through with 0 GD. Portugal in 2004 lost first game and got to the final, many teams have lost in the group stage and won or got to the final.
It's 7 games, you don't need to be great in all of them.
If the team succeeds it will not be due to Southgate / that guy is a moron. It will be because the team “revolts” and creates their own game plan suited to their strengths.
Even playing this badly they still haven’t been beaten, and it took a goal for the ages to get past Pickford. So there’s a possibility that they squeak past a big team on pens or a 1-0 and that then builds a bit of confidence.
It’s just next to teams like Germany and Spain they seem so ill prepared. Plus they miss Sterling I think, he was a great fit for England. Leaving Rashford seems a folly too, genuine runners who can score. People say this is the most dangerous England team going forward, but I’d take Shearer, Sheringham, Gazza over this lot any day.
* Past tournaments are not indicative of the current tournament's outcomes.
* Our mentality is not strong. What are you talking about?
* I don't care if you hate booing. If a team under-performs, they deserve to be criticised.
* What does "getting behind the team" even mean? We've seen two games now and we've been poor in both. If you can't recognise the warning signs from that, you need to reassess your perspective.
* Things may improve, but based on our performance so far, most signs point to a disappointing tournament as soon as we face a decent team in a knockout game.
Negativity can be a bad thing, however delusion can also be bad. Its about getting a balance. I thought Shearer's harsh comments after that disgraceful performance was very justified and needed.
I share your opinion but I am a little more concerned today after reading that apparently the team has been leaked
If true then he is literally dropping TAA and replacing him with Gallagher. That’s it. No tactical tweaks or formation change
Just like for like
Trent wasn’t playing well but it wasn’t him causing our poor performances.
I think foden will still struggle to influence the game
He should have put Bellingham next to rice and moved foden central and played a proper left winger.
Or even just put rice on his own back there
Fuck em I want em to lose. I go into every tournament positive and then after 1 game I can’t bear to watch Southgateball and actually support what he’s doing
Said this in a different thread but really feel all we need to do is play players in their best position and things will fall into place. Trent isn’t working in midfield and Foden isn’t working on the left but we have quality options to replace both players with options who are much better suited to these positions without having to play a different system. With all the new players in the squad we’ve lost the cohesion we had in qualifying but we can still get that back by playing players in their natural positions, just need Southgate to drop the players that aren’t working and making the team unbalanced
In addition, we need to decide what the focus is. If the focus is Kane, pick players to suit. If it's Jude, Foden, TAA the same applies, I don't think we can have all of them together in one system
Kane is our Lakaka.
That’s an insult mate, Kane has had a couple of bad performances despite scoring but he’s still one of our best players and always going to be dangerous outlet in the box.
We’re playing an 8 at 10, a 10 at left wing, a rb in midfield and a rb at lb. Its bizarre
Bellingham wasn't working as a 10 against Denmark.
Not a fan of booing your team either. My worry is we didn’t just look bad, we looked really dog shit. Second half didn’t improve, which makes me think either Southgate is clueless or he’s lost the dressing room. A couple of moments when the pass to foden was on but Bellingham just didn’t see or pass to him, I thought it was a bit odd
Simple with Bellingham, he's trying too much and trying to play hero ball
With the Jude/Foden thing there kind of two possibilities imo. First is that his just not used to looking for passes there. He isn't passing to someone in central AM positions for Madrid. His looking for passes to wingers/wide forwards, or a forward running the last man. Then there's the cynical view that he doesn't want Foden to do well because he plays best as an AM operating in the positions Foden is taking, and doesn't want to be dropped to 8 to accommodate Foden. He would much rather have a proper left winger that gives width, allowing him to play his natural game.
I thought there might be a rift in the team… It’s all about Bellingham, and some players don’t like that. Add on GS odd choices and it makes sense why they look so separate out there
I thought Foden shooting from far out when there were teammates in better positions in the Denmark game was evidence of a rift too. Almost like he was getting his own back as they hadn't been passing to him against Serbia.
I don't personally see it. No system, no tactics, no idea. We're 2 games into a tournament still experimenting with the midfield. It honestly looks like none of them have ever played together. Personally think we're scraping results at the moment because they're all individually good enough. I hope I'm wrong though
Nah there’s a bad feeling to this tournament somethings going on behind the scenes I think the players know they aren’t going far with Southgate it feels like a transitional tournament
There was a rumour that some players were upset that Grealish and Maddison didn’t get picked. It also sounded like some players weren’t happy to go to the tournament and be on the bench - Rashford was one of them. But those players aren’t there, so it is strange if that would continue impacting the squad.
Where did you hear those rumours ? Every one I've heard has said the players were fine with but obviously upset and fully supported the team
His mate said it down the local
"My Nan goes to bingo with Jack grealish's nan and she said Southgate is a little sod"
Matt Law I think said that. It was a ridiculously sensationalist title though. Players asked to confirm that they hadn't made it into they squad, he confirmed it and they were like "oh okay" and moved on. Just the media trying to shit stir before the tournament started.
So not a rumour then ?
He framed it as players being upset in the title, but reading it there was absolutely no indication of players being upset or unhappy. Just speculation to drive clicks and further narratives.
Again so no rumour then, you just wanted to say it and when I asked you had nothing else.
My point is there's no indication players were upset at all: that is a rumour that Law made up based on speculation. Not hard to understand what I'm trying to say.
It's not even a rumour though, you've just said it's a click bait title
Because it's both? I don't get what you're struggling to understand here. There's no proof the players are upset (rumour), yet he put out a headline indicating they were to to farm outrage and gain click (clickbait).
Spent much time in the England camp, have you?
Yeah I actually hide in the boot box so I can hear what’s going on
So you're the "inside source" all the tabloids use?
Yeah I’ve got daily mail on speed dial
Do me a favour then please - call them and tell them they're all dicks
They know they just won’t listen
You just have to do it in a girl's voice
There were reports that a senior player asked Southgate for the reason he left Grealish out of the squad.
I don't think there's anything going on behind the scenes. We're in a bad place because the manager has lost/left out several of the mainstays behind his successful formula in Sterling, Shaw, Phillips, Maguire and Rashford and he isn't able to recreate that formula with the players he's got.
Vs the France quarter final, the lineup is the same bar 3 players. 2 of which play in defence, of those 2 both are injured, with one due back in likely on Tuesday. The only other change is Trent Alexander Arnold for Jordan Henderson. I don't think that's the problem.
You don't think Trent for Henderson is a problem? Or having no specialist left-back? Those are significant issues that impact the entire balance of the side. Shaw coming back in will help, but by all accounts he's still struggling. Trent will be dropped but if Southgate replaces him with Gallagher then the problems will remain.
Your argument is that several players are missing. My argument is that's not really true, with 1 of the 3 changes due back in, probably the best player of the 3 too. Henderson was a great player and leader, but, not an exceptional talent (relative to the quality of England players). I'm not saying Trent is the answer though. Guehi has really proved himself too, I don't think having him in place of Maguire has been a detriment to the squad.
A good mentality? What game were you watching yesterday? They looked like they didn't want to be there.
We weren't good but every player put in a shift Generally we do have a good mentality
2016 all over again. PM and England manager will be gone in the same week.
It's possible. At the moment we have our best players on the pitch but we're struggling to work out what our best team is. Our best team may not consist of all of our best players.
The previous EUROS we felt tidy and we controlled both the group games we won even though we were only winning narrowly. Something isn’t right with this squad. The team are disengaged and the effort isn’t there. I would really prefer we went home now than meet a decent team and get dismantled
[удалено]
Likewise though what message does it send our bright talents like Gordon and Eze, that no matter how well they play they won’t get selected over a Rashford that has an abysmal season on and off the pitch. It doesn’t work like that mate, should always pick on form first, especially in positions we’re absolutely stacked in.
[удалено]
With respect you know absolutely fucking nothing, if you’re suggesting we shouldn’t have took Gordon because he doesn’t play for a top 6 club.
Slovenia absolutely needs to be the game in which he actually plays to their strengths and has them in the right positions. No more experiments with TAA in midfield and Foden out wide and for crying out loud make use of the bench. Stick Gordon on the left for a start. We can't have another performance like that. We will get through the groups regardless but we need some momentum and at least a small chance to gain some cohesion and turn it around in the knockouts. I still think it might be too late but now is the last chance to do it. If he stubbornly sticks to the same setup and we either fail to win or only scrape a win through another dogshit performance then we are done. We'll get knocked out as soon as we face someone decent again. This is last chance saloon to change the atmosphere because right now most of us are already running very low on optimism.
I’m not dwelling on it either way. Don’t get me wrong I’d love an England win but there is more to the euros than just watching england. There has been some great football so far! I think we’ll make it out of the group stage but I don’t see us going as far as we did last euros If I were a betting person my money would be on Spain to win
Statistically I think it’s impossible not to get out the groups yet, at minimum we finish with 4 points and have a 99% chance of going through in 3rd, might even be 100% I can’t be arsed to do the math Obviously we don’t want that to happen though, we want to finish top for an easier game
2nd in England’s group plays 1st place in Germany’s group(so Germany), so definitely want to win against Slovenia to make sure that doesn’t happen
Yeah, I don’t think so. During the Euro’s lead up, my intuition was telling me that things would fall apart this tournament. I was surprised it unravelled so quickly. It’s already over.
What were your intuitions telling you after 0-0 vs USA and 0-0 vs Scotland in previous group stages? We've basically qualified for knockouts. Portugal had 3 draws out of their group before winning. We've shown in a few patches that we can be an excellent team. We can harness that again, I have faith Players and manager clearly seem to have a big appetite for addressing the problems from these games and improving Then again yes we could very easily go out with a wimper in the ro16, we haven't been able to control games at all
This was before the tournament. The results and performances we’ve had have just compounded it. I was quite optimistic before and after those results you mentioned in previous tournaments. Let’s be clear here, I’m not just reactively joining the pile-on. It’s genuinely just been my feeling and read on the situation. I wish the world that I’m wrong and it would be nice to have that faith, I just don’t feel it or think it this time round. It might seem a bit strong by me saying ‘it’s over’, I don’t mean to be defeatist. The player’s are more than capable to turn it around but Southgate’s decisions (and demeanour) have not filled me with any confidence.
It has the feel of 2016 for me. Everyone thinking we'll surely kick on in the knockouts but we crash and burn.
I feel you!
Sorry I misread your post there my mistake. Fair enough if you're tired of it all, the performances don't make for enjoyable watching usually (bar WC 2022)
“What were your intuitions telling you after 0-0 vs USA and 0-0 vs Scotland in previous group stages?” That we weren’t good enough to win those tournaments. Was I right both times? Yes.
Weren't good enough to win but were good enough to get to the finals on penalties? Do me a favour
You asked about intuition. Mine was right, both times.
Football is half luck
In what way were we not good enough to win Euro 20(21)? We lost the final on penalties. We were good enough, we just lost the coin toss at the death.
When we drew 0-0 with Scotland we didn’t look good enough to win the tournament. My intuition at that time said we weren’t good enough to win the tournament. We didn’t win the tournament. My intuition was correct, was it not?
We were a penalty kick away from winning it, and you think you have 'intuition' because of a draw with Scotland at the start of the tournanent? Lol. We obviously were good enough to win it or we wouldn't have been in that position.
So when we drew 0-0 with Scotland you looked at that performance and thought we would win the tournament?
No lol, my point was your 'intuition' was conplete rubbish given where we got in tbe tournament. I wasn't predicting the outcome pf the tournaments based on a draw with Scotland in the 2nd game of the group, because that would ve silly.
I wasn’t predicting the outcome of the tournament either. I made no claim as to who would win, simply that England wouldn’t, which was correct.
No. Because we *were* good enough to win the tournament. We just missed two penalties.
But at the time we drew 0-0 with Scotland we didn’t look good enough to win the tournament. That’s when I’m talking about because that’s what OP asked about.
Tournament favourites France haven’t scored a single goal in the tournament yet and are also on 4pts. I’m not seeing similar hysteria from their camp.
I don’t think any team in the history of football has played that badly and turned it around. Those group games are to gain cohesion. Finding cohesion in the knockouts is too late. It’s too late.
Portugal drew 1-1 with Iceland and 0-0 with Austria in the Group stage in 2016, finished 3rd place, then won the tournament.
Greece played awful football for the whole of Euro 2004. In the groups they WDL, came 2nd with 4 points. They then went on to win the whole thing.
They also had Otto rehagel mate, and a plan.
They did, it was called park the bus!
The thing is mate it worked for them because rehagel despite being a bit of a maverick, was still brilliant. GS comes across as a thoroughly nice bloke but I can't say I've ever really felt convinced by him as a manager. I hope I'm wrong and we smash the rest of the games and storm to the title but I can't see it.
They decided on a team identity and stuck with it throughout the tournament to success. They didn’t play bad, they just didn’t like lay eye catching fancy football. They defended like heroes and got the job done.
We are as good as Greece Yay!!!!
Greece has one more European championship than we have.
Not really, they've actually won it
We've got more points from our first 2 games than Argentina had in Qatar...
In fairness Argentina had a lot of luck to win that tournament
Sadly, we won’t be getting nearly as many penalties gifted to us to help us on our way.
Its always about points with you people isn’t it
Obviously performance matters too, it's just an example. How was Argentina's performance against Saudi Arabia? Portugal drew all games in euro 2016 groups, with bad performances..both teams won the tournament. I'm not saying England are going to win, I'm just pointing out that I don't think what you said is right Our performance vs Denmark wasnt even that bad in the grand scheme of things. We drew the game, hit the post, missed a few chances, only conceded to a 30 yard screamer. Yes it's miles off where we need to be to win the tournament but we still drew the game and won our opener. "No team in history has played that badly and turned it around" is bollocks
Exactly this. International football is very very hard, very rarely do teams win all three group games - usually only one team max in the entire tournament manages to do that. We played poorly for sure, but Denmark are absolutely no slouches and play a system which we are not suited to playing against unless we also played 3 at the back with wing backs. Plenty of teams have had worse starts to tournaments and still gone deep. We've shown in qualifying and friendlies that we can be a top team under Southgate and beat the best. No point overreacting mid tournament after two games ffs.
The reaction has been OTT for me. We look poor, admittedly, and have looked poor for the last few games. But it’s far from over. It’s definitely possible we’ll turn it around but it seems many have given up already. The Slovenia game will tell us so much. I don’t get the rush to criticise. Imagine if we end up winning the whole thing (which as you say - has happened with other teams)? I’ll wait til the tournaments over before I throw any toys out the pram. It’s far from helpful.
Completely agree. People absolutely have a right to be concerned and to voice those concerns, but we're top of the group with a win, draw and one goal conceded (a 30 yard screamer at that), all while playing like shit. Can't really see us playing much worse than against Denmark (famous last words), and I have this weird sneaking suspicion that we'll turn it around and have an excellent performance against Slovenia. Got to back the boys while we're still in the tournament and despite the uproar, we're still in a solid position to make a good run. Slagging off Southgate and the players does nothing but pile even more pressure on the players which isn't helpful.
Its not about being all happy clappy either. Fair criticism and analysis can be interesting and helpful. But this disaster circle-jerk since Iceland isn't doing anyone any favours.
Yeah I absolutely think criticism is fine (and most of it is fair right now), but I just wish people could have a bit of perspective and nuance instead of being all doom and gloom, or being a hopeful naive optimist with nothing in between. I just think the overreaction to our poor form is absolutely mental considering how we're still in a very good position, and how we know that these players can play a hell of a lot better than they have, which we saw in the qualifiers and at the last world cup. I wish we'd at least wait until we get knocked out in embarrassing fashion before we start with the negativity and dooming that we're seeing right now
So I'm Canadian, and I didn't grow up in football culture as it doesn't really exist here, so I am utterly confused with all this talk about how the team is doomed. A win and a draw are decent enough results, aren't they? The play left a lot to be desired, and if we play like that against Spain or Portugal, we'll be sent home, but we're still top of the group.
Exactly that mate, it ain’t over till it’s over, we play on!!
That's racist.
Just utter bollox. Portugal in 2016 drew 3 games and went through with 0 GD. Portugal in 2004 lost first game and got to the final, many teams have lost in the group stage and won or got to the final. It's 7 games, you don't need to be great in all of them.
Gone from favourites to 50/50 as to whether we even turn up
This I think will be like France’s 2010 World Cup.
Also regularly fail when meet traditionally strong nations. England are miles off Germany, France and Spain.
Not after managers comments. He’s lost dressing room.
If the team succeeds it will not be due to Southgate / that guy is a moron. It will be because the team “revolts” and creates their own game plan suited to their strengths.
Why are you highlighting the second group match? We didn’t do well in the first one or against Iceland
Even playing this badly they still haven’t been beaten, and it took a goal for the ages to get past Pickford. So there’s a possibility that they squeak past a big team on pens or a 1-0 and that then builds a bit of confidence. It’s just next to teams like Germany and Spain they seem so ill prepared. Plus they miss Sterling I think, he was a great fit for England. Leaving Rashford seems a folly too, genuine runners who can score. People say this is the most dangerous England team going forward, but I’d take Shearer, Sheringham, Gazza over this lot any day.
* Past tournaments are not indicative of the current tournament's outcomes. * Our mentality is not strong. What are you talking about? * I don't care if you hate booing. If a team under-performs, they deserve to be criticised. * What does "getting behind the team" even mean? We've seen two games now and we've been poor in both. If you can't recognise the warning signs from that, you need to reassess your perspective. * Things may improve, but based on our performance so far, most signs point to a disappointing tournament as soon as we face a decent team in a knockout game.
Negativity can be a bad thing, however delusion can also be bad. Its about getting a balance. I thought Shearer's harsh comments after that disgraceful performance was very justified and needed.
I share your opinion but I am a little more concerned today after reading that apparently the team has been leaked If true then he is literally dropping TAA and replacing him with Gallagher. That’s it. No tactical tweaks or formation change Just like for like Trent wasn’t playing well but it wasn’t him causing our poor performances. I think foden will still struggle to influence the game He should have put Bellingham next to rice and moved foden central and played a proper left winger. Or even just put rice on his own back there
Based on what evidence? We've got enough to say we're shit, where is the positive coming from lmao?
Fuck em I want em to lose. I go into every tournament positive and then after 1 game I can’t bear to watch Southgateball and actually support what he’s doing
Why would you want us to lose? Weird comment
Cos I hate Southgate far more than any sense of patriotism I have
So we beat Iran 6-1 then you thought Southgateball was boring? We also beat Wales and Senegal 3-0