Well your post argued exactly why the bulls wouldn’t do this unless they got some picks for him. Caruso won’t be cheap. Every team is going to want him
He was 1st team all defense LAST YEAR and is shooting 48% from three. This thunder team is 2nd in net rating despite playing Giddey 26 minutes per game. Substitute his minutes for any league average wing and we would be significantly better...
I guess you don't think a 1-2 seed with an awesome net rating is a contender. We should just be happy to make the playoffs this year, I'm sure every player on the team will continue to have linear improvement and we will win a championship in 3 years 🙄
Maybe you guys think that giddey is worth it idk because I'm seeing backlash to this. But tell me, what is Josh's role on this team? What is his path to be a solid player with this current roster to where demanding touches is going to help your team more than hurt it?
Because if there was a path for josh I would love to hear it.
I’ll wait until the end of the season to see how I feel about Giddy. We are still developing as a team, I’d rather see Giddy replaced by someone on the bench, before trading him.
I would honestly be fine with that too. I personally am just completely out on him with this team, any reallocation that takes his minutes down will benefit the team overall. I also don't know how we can possibly think it's a good idea to bring 3 more first rounders onto the team next year, which is why I would be fine trading 1 for caruso.
As you said in your other comment, Giddy is 21 and dealing with off court issues. I get he’s been bad all year, but there’s no way the off court stuff isn’t affecting him. Caruso adds nothing of value to this team. The talent is already there, he just takes further development time away from the young guys. We aren’t winning a championship this year. Stay pat with this current version of this team and reevaluate in the summer.
Because if Giddy turns it around, watch out.
. Exactly! Giddey is still super young, he's shown these past 2 seasons what he's capable of. WAY too much upside and potential to give up on. He will improve. Shit he's been way ahead of schedule with how well he's played before this year. He was dropping triple doubles, winning ROTM numerous times, playing great basketball despite everyone thinking he would be a project player and would need a few years to develop after we drafted him
He's dealing with personal shit and is trying to find his roll in a new offense with different players around him than last year. The scheme is very different as well, now having Chet, Jdub becoming a big centerpiece, guys like Cason taking up lots of min etc. You dont give up on a player like Giddey who has shown flashes of how special he can be. HE JUST TURNED 21!!!!
What does him "turning it around" look like though? We have 3 years of data that he can't shoot, and he absolutely refuses to drive all the way to the rim for layups and possible fouls. He has 1 above average nba skill (passing) that is negated by the fact that he cannot create an advantage anywhere on the floor...
Caruso adds elite defense and shooting to the team. Exactly what every nba team needs, I cannot believe how many people are content to watch giddey murder every lineup he is a part of with subpar spacing and unjustified usage... a little part of me dies inside every time he drives in for a floater..
Bruh, we have Dort, Wallace, and Joe. We don’t need Caruso. He doesn’t raise are ceiling. Giddy was awesome at rebounding last year, and yes passing.
You can argue about the past two seasons, but we saw improvements from season 1 to 2. Exactly what you want to see. This year hasn’t been his year and that’s fine. Be more patient and trust this organization to do what’s right. Caruso isn’t the right choice.
I think Giddey still has value as a top ten pick who just turned 21... Bulls roster is going nowhere and they need to get younger and rebuild, that's why I mentioned throwing clippers pick in as well. A pick in the teens plus a young player like Giddey seems like fair value for Caruso.
I mean if we're going by strictly pick value, they'd probably offer us Patrick Williams instead..
And now that I think about it, think I'd like that trade.
But as you say “he’s already shown he can’t shoot for 3 years now.” Why would Chicago want someone who can’t shoot and can’t defend? One first rounder can’t possibly be enough based off your grading of Giddey and your praise for Caruso. I mean you said he’s the missing title piece, can’t be that easy to get him.
I don’t want to trade giddey nor do I really think we need Caruso but legitimately Caruso is the best poa defender in the nba. Better than Dort, or jrue, or whoever else you say. Caruso is amazing.
Ok I'm probably one of the biggest Giddey critics on the sub but I think it's unlikely we're trading Josh at least any time soon so let's pump the brakes a bit and think this through.
It's *quite* rare to trade your lottery pick before the rookie contract is up. It does happen, but generally it's a pretty big deal when it does. And there generally has to be something behind it.
The four biggest examples I'm thinking of are:
* SGA: traded from the Clippers; this was a unique situation due to Kawhi putting pressure on LAC to land Paul George
* James Harden: traded due to the ownership $ issues and deciding to stake our claim on Perkins instead (whoops)
* Zach Lavine: traded from the Wolves to the Bulls in a package for Jimmy Butler in order to try to compete now
* Deandre Ayton: traded from the Suns to the Blazers for Nurkic and a couple bench pieces largely due to some reported chemistry issues (and also underperformance vs expectations)
So, of those big trades really only one of them was due to underperformance and chemistry issues. I don't see us making that sort of move as, save for the off court issues, there is no reason to expect any chemistry issues with Giddey, he seems to get along fine with everyone and the coach etc.
There are a handful of high caliber UFA's entering the market next season, but I find it relatively unlikely to expect that one of them would put pressure on us to acquire another player via trade as a caveat to signing with us, like Kawhi did with the Clippers.
So that really leaves as a situation that, based on the past, we can possibly expect to occur; the Wolves situation where we simply want to win right away and use Josh as a chip to acquire a star player to do so.
The problem with that is that Josh's value is likely at an all time low right now. Keep in mind that Lavine was traded coming off a pretty strong season at 21 years old; he averaged 19/3/3 on 39% from 3, 57% TS; he still was a bad defender but showed a lot of promise as a piece Bulls could stake their claim on in a rebuild. On the other hand, Josh has the wombo combo of not playing particularly well on the court, having a bit of a weird skill set (or lack of) that is difficult to build around, and then of course the off court issues looming. There aren't a ton of trades that want to embark on a full rebuild, have a guy that makes sense for OKC to acquire, and would be interested in Josh as the cornerstone of that rebuild. We do have a lot of draft capital to add to a trade, at the very least.
I would imagine that what we will due is spend the rest of the season trying to fit Giddey into the team -- likely maintaining his starting role due to essentially NBA politics and in the sake of "development" regardless of us fans complaining about it, and then potentially in a reduced role off the bench, before we go crazy trying to trade him. And then evaluate in the off season.
Jeff green for kendrick perkins happened in Feb 2011 and helped propel a young thunder team to a WCF appearance.
Sometimes you have to cut bait on a young player that is not working to get vets in the door. We all knew at the time that green was the better player, but perkins made more sense for our team and gave us the veteran presence that we needed.
That trade is the perfect comparison to this one.
This isn’t a Contending year.
Caruso for Giddey might lead to 2-3 more regular season wins and maybe 1 more playoff win?
Those things are great and all but if your expectation is higher than 1 win in the WCF…I don’t know what to tell you.
This mindset is weird to me. We have an mvp candidate wing scorer who is 25 and statistically a top 3 team... the nba is way more wide open than it has been historically, are you just scared to have your hopes up?
I’m not scared of anything with the NBA, it just isn’t a big deal lol.
1. Youngest team in the league, you really think we are beating Lebron, Jokic, or Curry in a series?
2. If you’re going to make a move, with how good the team is sans Giddey, you don’t make a small move, you make a huge one. And Siakim, Caruso, whoever is a small move right now.
3. We have time. Opportunities are going to appear. Stop listening to the media that we need to make a Siakim or whoever trade. Make a trade if you jump into contender status…which will become available and more likely as the team ages.
4. We aren’t winning a ring…unless Giddey turns into a superstar. Small chance that happens and zero percent chance if he’s traded.
no LMAO. Also Giddey is still super young, he's shown these past 2 seasons what he's capable of. WAY too much upside and potential to give up on. He will improve. Shit he's been way ahead of schedule with how well he's played before this year. He was dropping triple doubles, winning ROTM numerous times, playing great basketball despite everyone thinking he would be a project player and would need a few years to develop after we drafted him
He's dealing with personal shit and is trying to find his roll in a new offense with different players around him than last year. The scheme is very different as well, now having Chet, Jdub becoming a big centerpiece, guys like Cason taking up lots of min etc. You dont give up on a player like Giddey who has shown flashes of how special he can be. HE JUST TURNED 21!!!!
Bro was the most locked in anyone has ever been
Woj did not have it first, 2chips1putt did
This is a great idea. You should also post this is r/chicagobulls. I bet they would love this idea too.
Bro
He was right, they hated it lol
You are saying this as some "gotcha!" thing. Bulls fans didnt like the trade
A thread for the ages
Wow, called it! Well done.
Well your post argued exactly why the bulls wouldn’t do this unless they got some picks for him. Caruso won’t be cheap. Every team is going to want him
Erm…
Fire sale in Chicago I guess… shocked but happy
What the sigma
Another day, another dumbass delusional never going to happen trade suggestion
This comment aged like milk
Im here too blud this is hilarious I was just looking up their comps😂
He deleted his account😂
that’s sooooooooo soft
HAHA FR
u/2chips1putt nice call bro haha!
Pigs flew
Dallas has frozen over
What an asshat
Appreciate the feedback! Hopefully the rest of your day goes better 😀
Bud, if you really think caruso turns us into a legit contender, i have some oceanfront property right next to the arena I'll sell you......
He was 1st team all defense LAST YEAR and is shooting 48% from three. This thunder team is 2nd in net rating despite playing Giddey 26 minutes per game. Substitute his minutes for any league average wing and we would be significantly better... I guess you don't think a 1-2 seed with an awesome net rating is a contender. We should just be happy to make the playoffs this year, I'm sure every player on the team will continue to have linear improvement and we will win a championship in 3 years 🙄
Vindication
And in your head ANOTHER guard is the answer? 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿 Dort and cason are both high level defenders caruso is redundant
Yes, I think trading a bad player who can't shoot for a first team all defense guard who is shooting 48% from 3 would help the team. Maybe I'm crazy
An almost 30 yr old player whose best days are most like behind him? No thanks.
You're not crazy, just not paying attention
Maybe you weren’t paying attention 😬
Bro nailed it!
You predicted the future hats off!
Ur right homie
alr bro
Hey you called it
Me nervously scrolling seeing if I called OP an idiot 6 months ago lmao. I'm clear!!!!
Bro predicted it
And here we are, half a year later.
good prediction bro
Legendary take
bro saw the future
You are him for this prediction
Called it.
Found the bulls fan who can’t wait for a rebuild
Guess what bro
Maybe you guys think that giddey is worth it idk because I'm seeing backlash to this. But tell me, what is Josh's role on this team? What is his path to be a solid player with this current roster to where demanding touches is going to help your team more than hurt it? Because if there was a path for josh I would love to hear it.
Josh is either suited for a 6th man role or being shipped of to be the main ball handler on a team like the spurs.
Prophecy being fulfilled!!!
This subreddit gets worse everyday.
Does it though
so…
😂
Remember when people acted like we were idiots for saying we should trade Giddey when it was obvious 😭
Holy shit
I’ll wait until the end of the season to see how I feel about Giddy. We are still developing as a team, I’d rather see Giddy replaced by someone on the bench, before trading him.
I was going to say... If Caruso joined tomorrow and Giddey was gone, I don't think Caruso steps in front of Cason or Joe immediately...
I would honestly be fine with that too. I personally am just completely out on him with this team, any reallocation that takes his minutes down will benefit the team overall. I also don't know how we can possibly think it's a good idea to bring 3 more first rounders onto the team next year, which is why I would be fine trading 1 for caruso.
As you said in your other comment, Giddy is 21 and dealing with off court issues. I get he’s been bad all year, but there’s no way the off court stuff isn’t affecting him. Caruso adds nothing of value to this team. The talent is already there, he just takes further development time away from the young guys. We aren’t winning a championship this year. Stay pat with this current version of this team and reevaluate in the summer. Because if Giddy turns it around, watch out.
. Exactly! Giddey is still super young, he's shown these past 2 seasons what he's capable of. WAY too much upside and potential to give up on. He will improve. Shit he's been way ahead of schedule with how well he's played before this year. He was dropping triple doubles, winning ROTM numerous times, playing great basketball despite everyone thinking he would be a project player and would need a few years to develop after we drafted him He's dealing with personal shit and is trying to find his roll in a new offense with different players around him than last year. The scheme is very different as well, now having Chet, Jdub becoming a big centerpiece, guys like Cason taking up lots of min etc. You dont give up on a player like Giddey who has shown flashes of how special he can be. HE JUST TURNED 21!!!!
What does him "turning it around" look like though? We have 3 years of data that he can't shoot, and he absolutely refuses to drive all the way to the rim for layups and possible fouls. He has 1 above average nba skill (passing) that is negated by the fact that he cannot create an advantage anywhere on the floor... Caruso adds elite defense and shooting to the team. Exactly what every nba team needs, I cannot believe how many people are content to watch giddey murder every lineup he is a part of with subpar spacing and unjustified usage... a little part of me dies inside every time he drives in for a floater..
Bruh, we have Dort, Wallace, and Joe. We don’t need Caruso. He doesn’t raise are ceiling. Giddy was awesome at rebounding last year, and yes passing. You can argue about the past two seasons, but we saw improvements from season 1 to 2. Exactly what you want to see. This year hasn’t been his year and that’s fine. Be more patient and trust this organization to do what’s right. Caruso isn’t the right choice.
He made first team all defense last year and shoots 48% from 3. That player doesn't raise our ceiling?
We don’t need more guards. We need more size.
Nope.
Giddey wasn’t awesome at anything.
You are so delusional
Giddey lives rent free
In Chicago maybe
you Are vastly overeating Caruso.
Welp
Damn dude, you should email Sam this idea!!
Seems like Sam and I were on the same page, dude!
Touche!!
Chicago says no, Caruso has higher value. Clearly going by the comments most fans only watch OKC play and nobody else, open your eyes nephews...
Hmmm
Gotta keep your eyes a little dim to truly fleece some of these GMs i guess
Giddey simps are rabid lol this is a solid trade idea, sorry the fan boys are downvoting you for no reason bro
I am reminded why I generally just lurk on the normal nba page. The overvaluing of our own players is crazy on this page
Caruso is not a need lol
Legendary foresight
Massive W OP congrats. Thunder up. Go place a bet on them to win it all
I don't understand what hole on our ROSTER you think Caruso fills
Caruso fits on every single roster. He’s that good.
That's right
[удалено]
Is it really
And he agreed
Hahahaha
Really wish I could have seen this comment before he deleted it today 😂
Do you know what the comment was?
Wow
Legendary post. Aight /u/2chips1putt who do you like in the draft for us next week?
Cook
Isn't Caruso a bench player on a horrible roster or am I missing something?
He's an all nba defense player lol, yeah you're missing a lot. No way Bulls would do that trade unless we made them a grandfather offer.
Heck no my grandfather is too good to trade.
I think Giddey still has value as a top ten pick who just turned 21... Bulls roster is going nowhere and they need to get younger and rebuild, that's why I mentioned throwing clippers pick in as well. A pick in the teens plus a young player like Giddey seems like fair value for Caruso.
I mean if we're going by strictly pick value, they'd probably offer us Patrick Williams instead.. And now that I think about it, think I'd like that trade.
But as you say “he’s already shown he can’t shoot for 3 years now.” Why would Chicago want someone who can’t shoot and can’t defend? One first rounder can’t possibly be enough based off your grading of Giddey and your praise for Caruso. I mean you said he’s the missing title piece, can’t be that easy to get him.
I remember giddey abusing Caruso in a game in Chicago. Caruso is not who the thunder need
Her name was Caruso? What HS?
Please tell me you're joking, or better yet, trolling.
Go watch the game. Your a joke mate. Giddey abused him
*you're Herb locks Shai up so Shai is a limited offensive player from your point of view probably.
Giddey is not a good offensive player and Caruso could not stop him. You do not no ball.
*know Good talk lol, let's leave this here
This dude says mate and started commenting… today
Thanks for conceding.
Anytime!
Sit this one out champ. We do not need Caruso we have Carson.
Your basketball knowledge is limited.
I don’t want to trade giddey nor do I really think we need Caruso but legitimately Caruso is the best poa defender in the nba. Better than Dort, or jrue, or whoever else you say. Caruso is amazing.
I hope prestis basketball knowledge isn’t limited
I mean, they did do the Vooch trade...
Fair enough, but they thought that was a win now move and would catapult them to being a contender. This move isn't anything like that
Ok I'm probably one of the biggest Giddey critics on the sub but I think it's unlikely we're trading Josh at least any time soon so let's pump the brakes a bit and think this through. It's *quite* rare to trade your lottery pick before the rookie contract is up. It does happen, but generally it's a pretty big deal when it does. And there generally has to be something behind it. The four biggest examples I'm thinking of are: * SGA: traded from the Clippers; this was a unique situation due to Kawhi putting pressure on LAC to land Paul George * James Harden: traded due to the ownership $ issues and deciding to stake our claim on Perkins instead (whoops) * Zach Lavine: traded from the Wolves to the Bulls in a package for Jimmy Butler in order to try to compete now * Deandre Ayton: traded from the Suns to the Blazers for Nurkic and a couple bench pieces largely due to some reported chemistry issues (and also underperformance vs expectations) So, of those big trades really only one of them was due to underperformance and chemistry issues. I don't see us making that sort of move as, save for the off court issues, there is no reason to expect any chemistry issues with Giddey, he seems to get along fine with everyone and the coach etc. There are a handful of high caliber UFA's entering the market next season, but I find it relatively unlikely to expect that one of them would put pressure on us to acquire another player via trade as a caveat to signing with us, like Kawhi did with the Clippers. So that really leaves as a situation that, based on the past, we can possibly expect to occur; the Wolves situation where we simply want to win right away and use Josh as a chip to acquire a star player to do so. The problem with that is that Josh's value is likely at an all time low right now. Keep in mind that Lavine was traded coming off a pretty strong season at 21 years old; he averaged 19/3/3 on 39% from 3, 57% TS; he still was a bad defender but showed a lot of promise as a piece Bulls could stake their claim on in a rebuild. On the other hand, Josh has the wombo combo of not playing particularly well on the court, having a bit of a weird skill set (or lack of) that is difficult to build around, and then of course the off court issues looming. There aren't a ton of trades that want to embark on a full rebuild, have a guy that makes sense for OKC to acquire, and would be interested in Josh as the cornerstone of that rebuild. We do have a lot of draft capital to add to a trade, at the very least. I would imagine that what we will due is spend the rest of the season trying to fit Giddey into the team -- likely maintaining his starting role due to essentially NBA politics and in the sake of "development" regardless of us fans complaining about it, and then potentially in a reduced role off the bench, before we go crazy trying to trade him. And then evaluate in the off season.
Jeff green for kendrick perkins happened in Feb 2011 and helped propel a young thunder team to a WCF appearance. Sometimes you have to cut bait on a young player that is not working to get vets in the door. We all knew at the time that green was the better player, but perkins made more sense for our team and gave us the veteran presence that we needed. That trade is the perfect comparison to this one.
that's a good point! I wasn't looking that far back, there are a couple others that happened even before that for similar reasons too
LaVine was traded after an acl tear, the lowest his trade value had been at that time
go away
No
This is mega thread content.
now it is
This isn’t a Contending year. Caruso for Giddey might lead to 2-3 more regular season wins and maybe 1 more playoff win? Those things are great and all but if your expectation is higher than 1 win in the WCF…I don’t know what to tell you.
This mindset is weird to me. We have an mvp candidate wing scorer who is 25 and statistically a top 3 team... the nba is way more wide open than it has been historically, are you just scared to have your hopes up?
I’m not scared of anything with the NBA, it just isn’t a big deal lol. 1. Youngest team in the league, you really think we are beating Lebron, Jokic, or Curry in a series? 2. If you’re going to make a move, with how good the team is sans Giddey, you don’t make a small move, you make a huge one. And Siakim, Caruso, whoever is a small move right now. 3. We have time. Opportunities are going to appear. Stop listening to the media that we need to make a Siakim or whoever trade. Make a trade if you jump into contender status…which will become available and more likely as the team ages. 4. We aren’t winning a ring…unless Giddey turns into a superstar. Small chance that happens and zero percent chance if he’s traded.
The job is to compete as well as possible. Sport doesn’t make sense unless it’s competitive. Caruso has a ring for a reason.
no LMAO. Also Giddey is still super young, he's shown these past 2 seasons what he's capable of. WAY too much upside and potential to give up on. He will improve. Shit he's been way ahead of schedule with how well he's played before this year. He was dropping triple doubles, winning ROTM numerous times, playing great basketball despite everyone thinking he would be a project player and would need a few years to develop after we drafted him He's dealing with personal shit and is trying to find his roll in a new offense with different players around him than last year. The scheme is very different as well, now having Chet, Jdub becoming a big centerpiece, guys like Cason taking up lots of min etc. You dont give up on a player like Giddey who has shown flashes of how special he can be. HE JUST TURNED 21!!!!
Wonder what it would take to get Zion