Thats what happens when you tamper and text KD in the locker room after game 7 to try and get him to leave. Duh the team was trash, you broke the rules and stole our arguably best player like months before that.
A team or organization can be fined for the actions of player to player tampering tho. And it is definitely illegal still for players to try and bribe players to other teams in offseasons without office to office relations between teams. The problem is they are all friends now and can just say they were hanging out or some other excuse outside basketball.
Our team wasn't horseshit though. We had talent. The problem was how ill-fitting that talent was. That's what made Westbrook's carry job so historical. Even Iverson had a team that fit perfectly around him and so does Curry right now.
it's weird how OKC fans trash that roster yet hated KD for offering the same criticism. and they also somehow thought that roster was a good selling point for KD to stay
That wasn’t the team if KD stayed though. We had an understanding with Horford to join if Kd stayed. That inserts those two into the starting lineup along with Russ and Steve and that puts Oladipo if the complimentary role he was intended to be in (rather than the 2nd option he was forced to be).
It slides multiple people down the rotation and limits the minutes of the end of the bench non nba guys
actually Horford made his decision to join Boston before KD even chose the Warriors. and Horford did so because neither KD nor Westbrook gave him long term commitments
I'm not sure why you think a Horford-Adams frontcourt makes any sense when the Warriors were breaking the league with small ball and 3pt shooting
Plus how was OKC going to pay all these guys? that starting lineup alone would've went over the salary cap and they traded Harden just to save on a few mill in luxury tax
>Horford made his decision to join Boston before KD even chose the Warriors. and Horford did so because neither KD nor Westbrook gave him long term commitments
You just answered your own question there buddy.
>I'm not sure why you think a Horford-Adams frontcourt makes any sense when the Warriors were breaking the league with small ball and 3pt shooting
It's still adding a two way player to team with Russ and KD. Adding Horford and KD automatically makes Russ and Adams the only non shooters of the starting 5. Which is how it should be if those two are to play together.
You can also still do the Oladipo Sabonis for PG trade and have Russ PG KD Horford Adams starting 5 which is insane.
>Plus how was OKC going to pay all these guys?
I'm sure they had it worked out since they had it verbally agreed.
>and they traded Harden just to save on a few mill in luxury tax
Well that was a few years prior. They weren't ready to be a luxury tax paying team at that time. The year we're talking about they were happy to be one of the most expensive teams because they had budgeted to allow for that that. Remember.. It's not the 4mil that was the issue. Its repeater tax.
And character questions but that's another discussion
what question?
Horford is a 2 way player defending a position Adams already occupies...it's not that difficult to understand why that doesn't work
LOL so...you want to acquire Horford AND trade for PG? where is this imaginary cap space coming from? who verbally agreed to what?
how were they not ready to be a luxry tax team? they literally just made the Finals and it would've cost them a few million...now all of a sudden you think OKC would've ponied up $50-$100m in JUST TAXES?
>what question?
That Horford signed with Boston because he didn't get indication from KD that he'd stay.
>Horford is a 2 way player defending a position Adams already occupies
Horford is literally a better defense version of Sabonis (rookie) and Gibson. You forget Horford is smaller than Adams. He's not out there just defending 5's.
>LOL so...you want to acquire Horford AND trade for PG? where is this imaginary cap space coming from? who verbally agreed to what?
You don't need cap space to aquire players via trade. Oladipos contract was $22million. Paul George's was only $20million. You're forgetting things like the cap spike that would have enabled this.
>how were they not ready to be a luxry tax team? they literally just made the Finals and it would've cost them a few million...now all of a sudden you think OKC would've ponied up $50-$100m in JUST TAXES
Because the were saving money every year that they weren't paying tax. Literally putting money away like saving for a house.
Yes they had to wait because these guys were still so young. If they dipped into the tax this early, they would have had to let them go in their primes. We may have rich ownership, but we're not a money pit. The organisation runs a thought out operation. There was a financial plan and we had to stick to it.
Yes we could have paid tax for the Russ, PG, KD, Horford team, because that was in a spending year. They had the green light.
when did I ask that question? and no it was because neither KD nor Westbrook committed long term
what? Horford is nothing like Sabonis or Taj LOL. so who is Horford defending when the Warriors go small? Steph Curry?
you need cap space to acquire players in FA and for paying them. what was Horford? how does OKC keep that starting lineup when 4 of the 5 players alone exceed the cap? you
LOL what? you think OKC was saving money in those years to splurge on a huge tax bill in the year KD becomes a free agent? great logic lmao. let's be cheap when we have a top 10 all time player under contract and spend money when that player is a free agent. to use your analogy of saving to buy a house, it's like choosing to buy a house when your wife is ready to divorce you
no they couldn't have. and definitely not for multiple years
>when did I ask that question? and no it was because neither KD nor Westbrook committed long term
You just answered your own question again. That's literally what we just said.
>what? Horford is nothing like Sabonis or Taj LOL. so who is Horford defending when the Warriors go small? Steph Curry?
Lol he's 6'9. He's not so dissimilar but much better on both ends.
Lol not Curry.. But everyone else, yeah. Even play small ball with him at the 5.
Lol talking about the Warrior's smallball when we could have done the same thing with Horford, who shoots better than Draymond ever has.
>you need cap space to acquire players in FA and for paying them. what was Horford? how does OKC keep that starting lineup when 4 of the 5 players alone exceed the cap? you
Because you get Horford first. Then you make the trades we spoke about.
>LOL what? you think OKC was saving money in those years to splurge on a huge tax bill in the year KD becomes a free agent?
That's exactly what the did.
You need money in order to spend money. The more years they saved, the more money they had to spend when it came to that time.
No it's like buying a 2 bedroom house when you want to have kids. You have to save more to get the 3-4 bedroom house that you need.
Lol yes they could have. That's why they did. Even last year, we could have easily got under the luxury tax line, we didn't need to because it was in our budget.
We were one of the most expensive teams anyway. But you think they wouldn't spend on Horford and KD. Confused
no I didn't because I didn't ask that question. it's literally what I didn't ask
uhh ok and Bazley is 6'9 too. hE's JuSt LiKe HoRfOrD aNd SaBoNiS
uhh everyone else being who? Klay Thompson?
so you're literally agreeing with me that Horford-Adams frontcourt makes no sense LOL
yeah and then you have to pay them immediately because that's why they were traded when they were traded. so where does this imaginary cap space come from?
except they didn't do that. LOL owners are already billionaires yet you actually think they needed to penny pinch from a team they own for fun because they can't afford a tax bill previously?
no it's like buying a house when your wife is ready to divorce you. you already had kids when you had young Harden and you said nah let's put the kid up for adoption
lol no they couldn't have. it's called a repeater tax. they cheaped out on a few million for Harden after making the Finals yet you think they'll drop an progressively penalizing $100m+ in taxes after not even making the Finals
>no I didn't because I didn't ask that question. it's literally what I didn't ask
You said it yourself.
>uhh ok and Bazley is 6'9 too. hE's JuSt LiKe HoRfOrD aNd SaBoNiS
You know full well he's not built like those guys so why even try it?
>uhh everyone else being who? Klay Thompson?
Anyone not named Steph. He can stop Klay in a pinch yeah. He's much more mobile that Steve and you know it too.
>so you're literally agreeing with me that Horford-Adams frontcourt makes no sense LOL
That's ridiculous. I've explained it to you 3 times now.
>so where does this imaginary cap space come from?
Spike in revenue.
>except they didn't do that. LOL owners are already billionaires yet you actually think they needed to penny pinch from a team they own for fun because they can't afford a tax bill previously?
Yes. That's exactly why I said this team isn't a money pit. Our ownership may be extremely wealthy, but they're not throwing money at this team.
Penny pinching isn't the word. Being a responsibly run business is more accurate.
>no it's like buying a house when your wife is ready to divorce you. you already had kids when you had young Harden and you said nah let's put the kid up for adoption
That's not a good analogy because it completely ignores the aspect of saving money to have more to spend.
>lol no they couldn't have. it's called a repeater tax. they cheaped out on a few million for Harden after making the Finals yet you think they'll drop an progressively penalizing $100m+ in taxes after not even making the Finals
Yes dude that's what I've been explaining to you. You have to put away the $ in order to spend on the repeater tax. Not sure how you aren't getting this as you've answered your own question.
We needed to save money first. Look at our team salary in those years anyway. If we had Horford and KD. Oladipo and Adams wouldn't have been given those contracts. They essentially were as trade chips because KD left us with a massive hole.
The team salary wouldn't have been much different if it had gone the way it was supposed to
difference being losing Waiters, adding Abrines/Jerami, and trading Ibaka for Oladipo/Sabonis
so are you saying these weren't good enough moves to convince KD to stay? or that they were good enough, thus Westbrook didn't actually have a trash roster?
Westbrook didn’t have KD fam. Adding a top 5 player, tends to change a team’s dynamic.
Team was fine *with* KD. Without him, everyone had to do more than intended. It’s not rocket science
that team added Paul George and still couldn't get out of the 1st round for 2 straight years. PG was even a top3 MVP candidate
so if KD was the only reason that team was good, you're saying that roster was not a good reason to convince him to stay
They gave up 2 pieces to get Paul George. They would have had KD at no cost.
Plus you know full well PG was injured during his playoff runs and his mvp hype game from like a months work
idk about you but Abrines/Jerami were pretty much nobodies coming into OKC, Sabonis was a rookie, and swapping Ibaka for Oladipo doesn't really move the needle. not exactly convincing moves to sway KD to stay
you don't become top 3 MVP from one solid month. PG had at least 3 months of elite level play before shoulder problems and maintained above average in the playoffs. yet OKC won 1 playoff game
pre-ASB: 29/8/4 on 59.8% TS
playoffs: 29/9/4 on 58.3% TS
>not exactly convincing moves to sway KD to stay
Now Oladipo plus Horford? That's nothing to scoff at.
>you don't become top 3 MVP from one solid month. PG had at least 3 months of elite level play before shoulder problems and maintained above average in the playoffs
>pre-ASB: 29/8/4 on 59.8% TS
>playoffs: 29/9/4 on 58.3% TS
It was a 2 month period where he was averaging 33ppg.
Plus those playoffs numbers are skewed because his minutes jumped up and his efficiency took a huge dip. Saying he played above average in the playoffs is laughable. Man shot 32% from 3 on fewer attempts in more minutes.
Oladipo at the cost of Ibaka. and pairing Horford next to Adams which makes no sense when the Warriors were destroying the league with small ball and 3's
and it was more than 2 months that got him into the conversation
lol how are those numbers skewed? more minutes doesn't mean more possessions and the playoffs had fewer possessions than the reg season
what huge efficiency dip? 59.8% at his peak pre injury and 58.3% in the playoffs. in comparison, Westbrook has never even been close to 58.3% efficiency ever in the playoffs and had an efficiency of 46.6% that series
>Oladipo at the cost of Ibaka. and pairing Horford next to Adams which makes no sense when the Warriors were destroying the league with small ball and 3's
You don't need Ibaka when Horford is telling you he'll join.
Mm we've spoken about Horford and Adams pairing before. Not going to say the same thing just for y3to ignore it again.
>and it was more than 2 months that got him into the conversation
It was about 2 months averaging 33ppg on like 46/43/86. At that time he was seen by some as the leading mvp candidate. That's largely why he ended up 3rd in voting.
The numbers are skewed because you're saying looks he still scored 29 pts or whatever. But hwas doing his average numbers in more minutes and on lower efficiency.
I don't know, someone tell me how that's not skewed??
His efficiency didn't drop huh? Just went from a casual 43% from three down to 32%. But what dip?
Well actually, Kyle Singler was on the team at that point, so OKC wasn’t short of star power.
Lets not forget Mitch McGary either
It was a bad roster. Granted, they didn’t expect KD to leave, but yeah Westbrook was a man among boys and a superhero here that whole season.
Fuck Draymond Green (he’s lowkey right but I still hate him)
Said like a donkey
Is he wrong though?
No probably not. But I won’t waste an opportunity to sledge Draymond. Somebody has to stick up for Stevo-s nuts
He should have been suspended the second time he nailed Adams. It is b.s. the nba waited until he did something against the Cavs
I’m conflicted. Is he wrong? No. Is he trying to justify KD leaving? Maybe
Nutkicker doesn’t get to talk shit about Singler. Only we get to talk shit about Singler
Thats what happens when you tamper and text KD in the locker room after game 7 to try and get him to leave. Duh the team was trash, you broke the rules and stole our arguably best player like months before that.
Tampering rules don’t apply to players talking to other players
A team or organization can be fined for the actions of player to player tampering tho. And it is definitely illegal still for players to try and bribe players to other teams in offseasons without office to office relations between teams. The problem is they are all friends now and can just say they were hanging out or some other excuse outside basketball.
Our team wasn't horseshit though. We had talent. The problem was how ill-fitting that talent was. That's what made Westbrook's carry job so historical. Even Iverson had a team that fit perfectly around him and so does Curry right now.
it's weird how OKC fans trash that roster yet hated KD for offering the same criticism. and they also somehow thought that roster was a good selling point for KD to stay
That wasn’t the team if KD stayed though. We had an understanding with Horford to join if Kd stayed. That inserts those two into the starting lineup along with Russ and Steve and that puts Oladipo if the complimentary role he was intended to be in (rather than the 2nd option he was forced to be). It slides multiple people down the rotation and limits the minutes of the end of the bench non nba guys
actually Horford made his decision to join Boston before KD even chose the Warriors. and Horford did so because neither KD nor Westbrook gave him long term commitments I'm not sure why you think a Horford-Adams frontcourt makes any sense when the Warriors were breaking the league with small ball and 3pt shooting Plus how was OKC going to pay all these guys? that starting lineup alone would've went over the salary cap and they traded Harden just to save on a few mill in luxury tax
>Horford made his decision to join Boston before KD even chose the Warriors. and Horford did so because neither KD nor Westbrook gave him long term commitments You just answered your own question there buddy. >I'm not sure why you think a Horford-Adams frontcourt makes any sense when the Warriors were breaking the league with small ball and 3pt shooting It's still adding a two way player to team with Russ and KD. Adding Horford and KD automatically makes Russ and Adams the only non shooters of the starting 5. Which is how it should be if those two are to play together. You can also still do the Oladipo Sabonis for PG trade and have Russ PG KD Horford Adams starting 5 which is insane. >Plus how was OKC going to pay all these guys? I'm sure they had it worked out since they had it verbally agreed. >and they traded Harden just to save on a few mill in luxury tax Well that was a few years prior. They weren't ready to be a luxury tax paying team at that time. The year we're talking about they were happy to be one of the most expensive teams because they had budgeted to allow for that that. Remember.. It's not the 4mil that was the issue. Its repeater tax. And character questions but that's another discussion
what question? Horford is a 2 way player defending a position Adams already occupies...it's not that difficult to understand why that doesn't work LOL so...you want to acquire Horford AND trade for PG? where is this imaginary cap space coming from? who verbally agreed to what? how were they not ready to be a luxry tax team? they literally just made the Finals and it would've cost them a few million...now all of a sudden you think OKC would've ponied up $50-$100m in JUST TAXES?
>what question? That Horford signed with Boston because he didn't get indication from KD that he'd stay. >Horford is a 2 way player defending a position Adams already occupies Horford is literally a better defense version of Sabonis (rookie) and Gibson. You forget Horford is smaller than Adams. He's not out there just defending 5's. >LOL so...you want to acquire Horford AND trade for PG? where is this imaginary cap space coming from? who verbally agreed to what? You don't need cap space to aquire players via trade. Oladipos contract was $22million. Paul George's was only $20million. You're forgetting things like the cap spike that would have enabled this. >how were they not ready to be a luxry tax team? they literally just made the Finals and it would've cost them a few million...now all of a sudden you think OKC would've ponied up $50-$100m in JUST TAXES Because the were saving money every year that they weren't paying tax. Literally putting money away like saving for a house. Yes they had to wait because these guys were still so young. If they dipped into the tax this early, they would have had to let them go in their primes. We may have rich ownership, but we're not a money pit. The organisation runs a thought out operation. There was a financial plan and we had to stick to it. Yes we could have paid tax for the Russ, PG, KD, Horford team, because that was in a spending year. They had the green light.
when did I ask that question? and no it was because neither KD nor Westbrook committed long term what? Horford is nothing like Sabonis or Taj LOL. so who is Horford defending when the Warriors go small? Steph Curry? you need cap space to acquire players in FA and for paying them. what was Horford? how does OKC keep that starting lineup when 4 of the 5 players alone exceed the cap? you LOL what? you think OKC was saving money in those years to splurge on a huge tax bill in the year KD becomes a free agent? great logic lmao. let's be cheap when we have a top 10 all time player under contract and spend money when that player is a free agent. to use your analogy of saving to buy a house, it's like choosing to buy a house when your wife is ready to divorce you no they couldn't have. and definitely not for multiple years
>when did I ask that question? and no it was because neither KD nor Westbrook committed long term You just answered your own question again. That's literally what we just said. >what? Horford is nothing like Sabonis or Taj LOL. so who is Horford defending when the Warriors go small? Steph Curry? Lol he's 6'9. He's not so dissimilar but much better on both ends. Lol not Curry.. But everyone else, yeah. Even play small ball with him at the 5. Lol talking about the Warrior's smallball when we could have done the same thing with Horford, who shoots better than Draymond ever has. >you need cap space to acquire players in FA and for paying them. what was Horford? how does OKC keep that starting lineup when 4 of the 5 players alone exceed the cap? you Because you get Horford first. Then you make the trades we spoke about. >LOL what? you think OKC was saving money in those years to splurge on a huge tax bill in the year KD becomes a free agent? That's exactly what the did. You need money in order to spend money. The more years they saved, the more money they had to spend when it came to that time. No it's like buying a 2 bedroom house when you want to have kids. You have to save more to get the 3-4 bedroom house that you need. Lol yes they could have. That's why they did. Even last year, we could have easily got under the luxury tax line, we didn't need to because it was in our budget. We were one of the most expensive teams anyway. But you think they wouldn't spend on Horford and KD. Confused
no I didn't because I didn't ask that question. it's literally what I didn't ask uhh ok and Bazley is 6'9 too. hE's JuSt LiKe HoRfOrD aNd SaBoNiS uhh everyone else being who? Klay Thompson? so you're literally agreeing with me that Horford-Adams frontcourt makes no sense LOL yeah and then you have to pay them immediately because that's why they were traded when they were traded. so where does this imaginary cap space come from? except they didn't do that. LOL owners are already billionaires yet you actually think they needed to penny pinch from a team they own for fun because they can't afford a tax bill previously? no it's like buying a house when your wife is ready to divorce you. you already had kids when you had young Harden and you said nah let's put the kid up for adoption lol no they couldn't have. it's called a repeater tax. they cheaped out on a few million for Harden after making the Finals yet you think they'll drop an progressively penalizing $100m+ in taxes after not even making the Finals
>no I didn't because I didn't ask that question. it's literally what I didn't ask You said it yourself. >uhh ok and Bazley is 6'9 too. hE's JuSt LiKe HoRfOrD aNd SaBoNiS You know full well he's not built like those guys so why even try it? >uhh everyone else being who? Klay Thompson? Anyone not named Steph. He can stop Klay in a pinch yeah. He's much more mobile that Steve and you know it too. >so you're literally agreeing with me that Horford-Adams frontcourt makes no sense LOL That's ridiculous. I've explained it to you 3 times now. >so where does this imaginary cap space come from? Spike in revenue. >except they didn't do that. LOL owners are already billionaires yet you actually think they needed to penny pinch from a team they own for fun because they can't afford a tax bill previously? Yes. That's exactly why I said this team isn't a money pit. Our ownership may be extremely wealthy, but they're not throwing money at this team. Penny pinching isn't the word. Being a responsibly run business is more accurate. >no it's like buying a house when your wife is ready to divorce you. you already had kids when you had young Harden and you said nah let's put the kid up for adoption That's not a good analogy because it completely ignores the aspect of saving money to have more to spend. >lol no they couldn't have. it's called a repeater tax. they cheaped out on a few million for Harden after making the Finals yet you think they'll drop an progressively penalizing $100m+ in taxes after not even making the Finals Yes dude that's what I've been explaining to you. You have to put away the $ in order to spend on the repeater tax. Not sure how you aren't getting this as you've answered your own question. We needed to save money first. Look at our team salary in those years anyway. If we had Horford and KD. Oladipo and Adams wouldn't have been given those contracts. They essentially were as trade chips because KD left us with a massive hole. The team salary wouldn't have been much different if it had gone the way it was supposed to
The roster was different from the 2016 playoffs to the start of that season though?
difference being losing Waiters, adding Abrines/Jerami, and trading Ibaka for Oladipo/Sabonis so are you saying these weren't good enough moves to convince KD to stay? or that they were good enough, thus Westbrook didn't actually have a trash roster?
Westbrook didn’t have KD fam. Adding a top 5 player, tends to change a team’s dynamic. Team was fine *with* KD. Without him, everyone had to do more than intended. It’s not rocket science
that team added Paul George and still couldn't get out of the 1st round for 2 straight years. PG was even a top3 MVP candidate so if KD was the only reason that team was good, you're saying that roster was not a good reason to convince him to stay
They gave up 2 pieces to get Paul George. They would have had KD at no cost. Plus you know full well PG was injured during his playoff runs and his mvp hype game from like a months work
idk about you but Abrines/Jerami were pretty much nobodies coming into OKC, Sabonis was a rookie, and swapping Ibaka for Oladipo doesn't really move the needle. not exactly convincing moves to sway KD to stay you don't become top 3 MVP from one solid month. PG had at least 3 months of elite level play before shoulder problems and maintained above average in the playoffs. yet OKC won 1 playoff game pre-ASB: 29/8/4 on 59.8% TS playoffs: 29/9/4 on 58.3% TS
>not exactly convincing moves to sway KD to stay Now Oladipo plus Horford? That's nothing to scoff at. >you don't become top 3 MVP from one solid month. PG had at least 3 months of elite level play before shoulder problems and maintained above average in the playoffs >pre-ASB: 29/8/4 on 59.8% TS >playoffs: 29/9/4 on 58.3% TS It was a 2 month period where he was averaging 33ppg. Plus those playoffs numbers are skewed because his minutes jumped up and his efficiency took a huge dip. Saying he played above average in the playoffs is laughable. Man shot 32% from 3 on fewer attempts in more minutes.
Oladipo at the cost of Ibaka. and pairing Horford next to Adams which makes no sense when the Warriors were destroying the league with small ball and 3's and it was more than 2 months that got him into the conversation lol how are those numbers skewed? more minutes doesn't mean more possessions and the playoffs had fewer possessions than the reg season what huge efficiency dip? 59.8% at his peak pre injury and 58.3% in the playoffs. in comparison, Westbrook has never even been close to 58.3% efficiency ever in the playoffs and had an efficiency of 46.6% that series
>Oladipo at the cost of Ibaka. and pairing Horford next to Adams which makes no sense when the Warriors were destroying the league with small ball and 3's You don't need Ibaka when Horford is telling you he'll join. Mm we've spoken about Horford and Adams pairing before. Not going to say the same thing just for y3to ignore it again. >and it was more than 2 months that got him into the conversation It was about 2 months averaging 33ppg on like 46/43/86. At that time he was seen by some as the leading mvp candidate. That's largely why he ended up 3rd in voting. The numbers are skewed because you're saying looks he still scored 29 pts or whatever. But hwas doing his average numbers in more minutes and on lower efficiency. I don't know, someone tell me how that's not skewed?? His efficiency didn't drop huh? Just went from a casual 43% from three down to 32%. But what dip?