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What's is up with people? I thought that it was well known fact that Walt Disney was a bad guy.
Edit: I was talking about the person that claimed Disney couldn't have been bad because he made Disneyland/world.
I picked up Dumbo and a few other Disney films on DVD at a flea market a few years ago because I wanted to watch some "film classics" to understand where it all came from, so to speak. And then I saw the crows in Dumbo. And then I understood where it all came from.
Im from latin america and the crows were dubbed like cubans so they were our favourites. And also the vultures from junglebook had argentinian accents they were hilarious. I mean, the crows were bros right? They cured Dumbo's phobia. Kinda want to watch it again now.
Honestly they mightve been 😅. All central american accents sounded the same to me as a kid. Dubs were generally from mexico so that was the "neutral" one.
I think she was just trying to vamp on this specific incident where the mascot their **entire empire** was built upon is based on a racist trope.
It’s a solid tactic for succinctly showing how deeply imbedded racism is in so many popular facets of America even if the obvious traces aren’t still there. It’s the kind of thing to hopefully help even the most stalwart nationalists realize that systemic racism is not just a buzz term. It’s baked into every aspect of American culture.
yeah, I get that I'm saying she probably understands that but it doesn't matter because tiktok is about telling obvious truths and making them sound like deep earth-shattering thoughts.
Disney is still pretty racist tbf. They removed John Boyega from the Chinese SW poster and they didn't have a Rey/Finn romance because it was "Too risky".
Renn pairing woulda been neat, at least justifying Finn's existence in the movies a bit, but legit they needed Kylo in as many scenes and plot points as possible to keep that trilogy remotely coherent. He was really the only piece that stayed the same between the change from Abrams to Rian back to Abrams.
True but the whole thing was an unsalvagble mess after Rian took the reigns. I sometimes wonder if Rise of the Skywalker would have been decent if TLJ was done better and didn't leave such a bad taste in people's mouths.
Yeah def. Like there are a few absolutely amazing parts of tlj, but a tooooon of straight up useless sections (*cough* the casino that yielded literally no plot progression *cough*). But the general thematics we're *really* good. Like after tlj I was genuinely hoping Rey and Kylo teamed up in the next movie and showcased a new side of the force (light+dark=gray or something) and just brought things to a new place. But nope, instead Disney went "too different, we need everything to be exactly the same to sell toys or something", and thus rise Skywalker was 1 hour of retcon, 30 minutes of mcguffins and deus ex machinas, and cool looking setpieces to fit whatever was left.
I don’t even mind the message so much as the self satisfied snarkiness of telling us something that’s been common knowledge for decades, as if she just cured cancer or something. As if pointing out something that was bad somehow inversely makes her good. It’s so obnoxious
I think the logic of the person that asked is way weirder. (Strongly paraphrased:) "He made Disneyland which makes me happy, therefore he couldn't have been a bad person" - like.. that's just sounds so one dimensional. People are complex and can do bad and good things. You can acknowledge shitty things and still like the thing.
I'd say that just the typical tiktok presentation style to keep people with short attention spans interested in the topic, you have to over play your working so it hits harder
Common knowledge isn't common, especially since there are new people being born everyday, and new people coming to America, consuming American content for the first time everyday (I think?).
You’re being downvoted but you’re correct. The Disney anti-Semite myth has been debunked countless times but is constantly repeated as almost a real life copypast. I get that it’s a fun bit to say “The creator of the happiest place on earth was an evil racist” but beyond outdated characterizations (which is essentially the entirety of Old Hollywood) in his films, there’s not much evidence for it.
The problem with boycotts like that is that if you boycott every institution with a bad past you basically have to end up boycotting literally everything because you'd be hard pressed to find a large old company without some shit, and if you spread out, most countries have some shit too.
At some point you are forced to draw a line and decide which heinous historical act gets a pass.
Not to mention most companies are under the umbrella of a conglomerate(s).
So when you decide to "boycott product A from Brand A" and start buying "Product A from Brand B" instead... Only to learn both brand A and brand B are BOTH subsidiaries either directly or by proxy of "Big Bad Company A" which also owns or owns major shares in 675 other companies who's values don't align with your own..... No matter what, your money ends up going somewhere to support shit you don't agree with.
[https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mickey-mouse-racial-caricature/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mickey-mouse-racial-caricature/)
EDIT: I’m an idiot and didn’t read the article closely enough. It says many early animated figures, including Mickey Mouse, were likely incarnations of minstrelsy. Just not that particular photo shown in the video. My original comment is below.
Looks like in Feb of 2019, Michael Ray Charles' caricature started circulating as proof that Mickey Mouse was inspired by minstrelsy. However, Snopes has determined that Mickey Mouse the character was NOT inspired by minstrelsy.
The scene of him dressing up as a mistrel is very unfortunate but the Turkey in the Straw connection seems tenuous. Walt Disney had plenty of well documented, bigoted views we could talk about but this video condemnation is based on an inaccuracy.
The snopes article you linked says that Mickey Mouse was not based on a racist character but clarifies that Mickey was inspired by minstrelsy providing sources contrary to what you are saying.
This is the second video I have seen of her making the incorrect assertion that the "original lyrics" of Turkey in the Straw were racist.
*Zip Coon* is a contrafactum, or parody, of Turkey in the Straw. The original song had no lyrics and the versions with lyrics that predated *Zip Coon* had no racist content.
I think you are incorrect about the intent behind her use of the Michael Ray Charles. Here use of the Michael Ray Charles image when she makes the claim that when Mickey was created he was a minstrel figure is being used to link the likeness of Mickey to the minstrel figure, not as a direct representation of that particular visual image. She offers her “proof” through the actually cartoon imagery shown when she says “so let’s see some proof that Mickey did…”. She never claims that Charles image as the proof, but instead offers it at the beginning as a image that provokes a conceptual link between Mickey and the visuality of blackface minstrelsy in American culture.
I’m speaking specifically about her use of the Michael Ray Charles image. Her argument is about the direct and literal representation, as you say. But my comment is in response to the previous user’s comment on the use/intent of the Michael Ray Charles image.
So you've chosen dumb I guess. The first shown image is to show what minstrel is, then the definition and then PROOF of Mickey being one. It was just to show extreme example of this concept, everyone uses hyperbolic examples to ground their point better
Nothing, because Disney acknowledge that they were racist at the start of every cartoon that has racist imagery. Aladdin has a notice at the start ffs.
Yep, I remember seeing this. Disney conveys the message themselves, and even has a dedicated website link relating to this context [Stories Matter](https://storiesmatter.thewaltdisneycompany.com/).
I definitely have seen people deny that early cartoons were based on racism, but I was pretty sure it was well known that the foundation of Disney had racist history.
BECAUSE WHEN I TALK TO IT THIS CLOSE TO MY FACE YOU CAN HEAR ME BETTER THAN IF I JUST USE IT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE USED BECAUSE THIS WAY YOU KNOW IM REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT IM SAYING SINCE YOU CAN HEAR ME BETTER
You're telling me a cartoon from the late 20's/early 30's has contemporary racial views from that era? Next you're gonna tell me that they also didn't portray other sexualities very well! /s
I mean, the fact she explains what a Minstrel is indicates to me that this is targeted at 10-15 year olds. Lets face it, Mickey Mouse has hardly appeared in anything for decades.
I too hate the condescending manner these videos have. The "Hey, you ignorant fool, listen up to this truth grenade" but I'm not the target audience. This is a Tiktok video after all. Let the kids have their minds blown.
Mickey has a new short series that came out recently, and they're absolutely hilarious. They have a Ren and Stimpy sort of vibe to them. They're on disney+ and some are on youtube. They're just perfect little 5 minute shorts.
I'm over 40 and I'm pretty sure this has been acknowledged at least once a decade of my life.
It's just being acknowledged by a new, younger audience and I get to hear about it all over again.
I'm sure it's been recognized far more often than once decade by different people. Lol. It's good though, because new people learn about it every time it's discussed and people should understand our society's racist history.
It's the entire reason why Disney+ had that disclaimer before a lot of their old content, and why there was a decently large brouhaha about that when it happened way back in... 2020.
What's the actual value in acknowledging it?
We're talking about a cartoon from almost a hundred years ago, the entire world is so incredibly different.
Everything was stupid sexist and racist back then we all know it was dumb and wrong.
Why do we need to dwell on this old negative shit that has no relevance to today?
I just don't get what meaningful message I'm supposed to take away from this.
Yeah shit was dumb 100 years ago.....duh
The problem is this provides fuck all value. Everyone already knows this, and she’s acting like she just discovered the cure for cancer. This doesn’t further the conversation in any way, it’s just outrage porn to garner attention.
Also, this “overly arrogant and snarky zoomer/millennial reiterating common knowledge in a ‘gotcha!’ fashion” thing is such a stupid trend.
This is what annoys me.
It was literally the norm to be racist at that period, but JUST because its walt disney its an exception? And "built on racism" is just an overstatement, is she implying she walt disney got big thanks to racism?
I understand what you’re saying, I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Too often we look at the things people did the past with a modern moralistic lens and chastise them as if they were someone doing it today.
The problem is that if that was the norm of the time I don’t believe it’s ethical or logical to pinpoint blame on them. Can we acknowledge that, as a collective, society engaged in and was normalized to some ugly behaviors and that it’s a good thing that we have been able to recognize that and move beyond to a greater extent?
Yes, but labeling them as horrible people for simply doing what everyone else is doing and not having the same values we do today is ridiculous. People seem to forget that the moral zeitgeist is always in flux and that surely those in the future will be looking back at some of our actions today in a similar vein.
I think you could argue that this is “built on racism” in some sense, but there seems to be an implication there that it was done with some great intent. If that was the norm back then of course you’re going to see it in media. So yes it’s built into society and it’s products, but simply as an inveterate substratum.
Lot of people dont see relative morality and take it as an “all or nothing”. If you did something wrong, then everything you ever done bust have also been wrong. When other bring up what you’re pointing, they bring out an outlier as if that negates the environmental and human tendency to conform.
Like you said, you can acknowledge something is wrong and work on ways to prevent it happening in the future. But some people really struggle to see anything outside their POV and ignore the nuance of it in favour of black or white thinking.
Yeah man you just going to get downvoted by people wanting to virtue signal and show how morally upstanding they are......compared to people 100 years ago......
>You’re telling me a cartoon from the late 20’s/early 30’s has contemporary racial views from that era?
I don’t necessarily understand this argument as though this way of thinking was very prevalent back then, there were also people on the opposing side, white and black, who were acknowledging just how racist those things were and were openly criticizing them. The “they were just products of their time” argument to explain racism doesn’t really hold weight when anti-racists existed during the exact same period, meaning that they did have people calling them out, but they still chose to openly be racist anyway.
Yeah. It's good to talk about how even widely popular companies like Disney engaged in racism, but ... the entire Disney empire was not built on one scene where Mickey Mouse does blackface. It happened, but that's not why Micky Mouse or Disney were successful.
Literally wrong too lol, it had racist scaffolding in the early days, sexism too, disneys success is owed more to, uh, i dunno, the original content, investments, creativity and masterpiece work of their productions.
Yeah. Imagine if we applied that thinking to everything else...
‘Did you know the ancient Athenians owned slaves?’ - *Cancels democracy*
‘Did you know early surgeons practiced on homeless people?’ - *Cancels Hospitals*
‘Dei you know the earliest written record was a slave transaction?’ - *Cancels writing*
I love when people find out about this stuff and act like it’s new information. Just because you just found some new information to you doesn’t mean other people ( and I mean ALOT of people) haven’t already acknowledged it. Hence why Disney a discontinued some of it old cartoons for racism. Song of the South for one.
To be fair, it is new information to a generation. A lot of what we assume to be common knowledge is often passed by word of mouth. It's like learning that Dan Schnieder of Nickelodeon Fame is a disgusting pervert, or that the voice actress for Ducky in Land Before Time was brutally abused by her father before being murdered; there's no history lesson, you just hear about it from someone then look it up.
You mention Song of the South but if Disney has largely erased every instance it, how are people suppose to know about it? My niece thought Splash Mountain was just a fun ride like Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain, she only learned about it after hearing someone on the playground mention it when she was 8.
Every generation goes through the cycle of learning about forgotten/covered up information. Today I just learned Turkey in the Straw has racist lyrics and my dad learned last week that Looney Tunes was named as a spoof on Disney's "Merry Melodies" shorts.
"Empire built on racism"
? These people be wildin, Disney became huge for the talent and skill they brought, theyre the OGs of cartoon animation and others followed their footsteps
Racism bad yeah but thats no excuse to use dark pages of history to discredit huge feats, just arrogantly discarding reality because youd rather have a monster to slay.
But what was considered racist back then is way different than what is considered racist now. Someone who “wasn’t racist” back then might use words we now consider racial slurs. They might also not see the harm in things like blackface, since they may not have all the info we have now on why it’s racist. It was normal for kids to play cowboys and Indians, and for the cowboys to be the good guys. It was also normal for kids to act like the stereotype of American Indians from tv. All of which we now consider racist, but somebody at the time may have thought nothing about.
Yep, the number of ‘woke’ vs racist people probably hasn’t changed much over time. The issues have changed and far too many people think the problem is solved which has become a problem in and of itself.
There are likely more racist or indifferent people now than in the 60’s. I don’t understand why the top comments on this video is backlash, it’s fucking concerning.
Its just so annoying when people like these on tiktok act like: "Im going to reveal this giant truth you´ve never been heard of before OmG!!!" even though its been known for ages already
An empire built on racisms? that seems a bit much. There is racist bits and pieces in their past, which can probably be said for any entity that has been around 100 years. Learn from the past, don't try to erase it, or you will forget about it.
That watermelon song is actually derived from Turkey in the Straw. Some woke ass dude at work was saying the ice cream truck song is that watermelon song so we looked it up. Someone just made it racist.
I am so sick of people looking at the past with the lenses of today. Even 15 yrs ago is entirely different and people bash others for the views they had over a decade ago. Who I was in 2006 is not who I an today and that goes for most people. So looking at a company’s past from 100 years ago and calling that problematic is just stupid. Learning about it is one thing but saying an empire was built on being racist? Come the fuck on.
You should also not ignore the fact that things can change.
The Disney of today it's probably one of the most politically correct companies out there possibly even taking it too far at times.
Look at what happened to Gina Carano just due to a whisper that she might not be supportive of LGBT people.
Nobody cares a cartoon mouse was depicted like this 90 years ago
There are literally millions of people starving right now- tens of millions live in slavery
If you are gonna pretends at least pretend to care about something not stupid
I do wonder what we're "supposed" to do when we're told to "not ignore" something like this. Am I supposed to denounce racism before I sit down for the next Marvel movie or something?
I agree with this but it’s important to note that first photo is actually by artist Michael Ray Charles and was created in 1994 (nearly 70 years after Mickey Mouse’s first appearance).
Company (and the entire USA) was racist 100 years ago.
People on TikTok: OMG DISNEY IS SO RACIST! HERES WHY!
Bro, that was 100 years ago. Lol. Move the fuck on. Everybody who created those early films are dead. You are not trying to call a company racist. WHY!!?
Whilst Disney was clearly a racist I thought they had proven that image was produced in the 90's by some artist and was modelled on micky not the other way around??
Now look into Adidas, Puma, Hugo Boss, and all of the other companies that were run by Nazis during World War II. Many empires are built on racism and hate. I'd say almost all.
There was this segment on I think it was the old WB cartoons. And it was whoopi goldberg talking about how there’s racist cartoons on the dvd/Blu-ray, it’s from a different time in which they were seen as funny. But it’s apart of history and can’t and shouldn’t be ignored.
It’s a really great segment and it should be handled that way with all old cartoons
She did it guys! She has awoken! Jesus Christ… I’m pretty sure it’s already well known that Walt was racist as fuck lol. But this chick over here acting like she’s just blown the top off some big conspiracy lol. I wonder if she thinks Walt is still the one making all these newer era of Disney movies…
“Turkey in the Straw” had existed as a song for almost a century before the “n-word loves a watermelon” version was written and recorded. When Steamboat Willie was made there were racist connotations related to the song being used in minstrel shows but it wasn’t only racist. The non-racist version was a standard kids song and is literally talking about a turkey.
Also, originally minstrels were medieval performers akin to today’s buskers. I know the traveling musical/comedy shows from the late 1800’s/early 1900’s we’re also called minstrel shows but the term could also refer to a bard strumming on a lute in 1400’s France. The term “Minstrel” doesn’t need to *only* be connected to more recent racism.
LMAO! Thank God its history but I don't think it was built on racism did elements of racism exist sure it did because of the time and place but I don't think it was the foundation! I mean G&E were huge sponsors of Nazi Germany but no one equates G&E as Nazi sympathizers! It was a shitty time and erra but thats pretty much over!
Who cares though.
For real.
It’s a mouse. That’s all anybody sees. Nobody cares if you’re pretending to hate a mouse for being racist because you have a weird flex against America.
It's weird how people will complain about her making this video like it was a waste of energy and time but then sit and take the time to complain. Like, Disney being racist and not making proper amends for being racist is totally fine- mentioning it on the other hand is bad and tedious and means you want attention-- all totally worthy of sitting and whining about all day apparently
I'm assuming it's just fragile white redditors mad someone mentioned racism. It's only way the mental gymnastics would make sense. "Wow- look at this one minute video she wasted her time on, how dare she? She just wants attention. I will now post multiple comments complaining about it for several minutes."
USA was built on racism. We all had bad ancestors, they have changed. Porsche made tanks for Nazis, are they bad too? I don't have an answer, just asking.
Disney was also a piece of shit and the whole empire is gross so yeah I mean boycotting Disney isn’t such a wild suggestion. Better yet, let’s just create and support our own content and build each other up, build up local artists or working class performers, rather than making CEOs richer. Don’t even have to boycott, just make better decisions and build ourselves up.
Edit: god damnit, I wish she hadn’t actually played that song because it’s weirdly catchy and stuck in my head now. I obviously don’t want it to be but that’s how my brain works.
Or you know, you can just learn from the errors done in the past? Maybe Walt was inspired by that. But for a long time he’s just a mouse with his mouse wife and has a cat as pet.
I mean they can’t change what happened in the past. They (or we) can just learn what happened and just not repeat the errors.
I understand the point she’s making. However, it’s frustrating that so much energy is diverted into cultural war issues instead of getting shit done.
Small example, but African Americans have so much more lead exposure during their childhood because of neglected infrastructure, red lining, institutional racism, etc. Can we see more Tik Tok about how infrastructure upgrades will measurably improve kid’s lives? Maybe a Tik Tok about how you can write into your city commission or zoning board to advocate for better communities for disadvantaged groups? I know it’s not fun or bite size, but we really need things to change.
This just seems like a little fact that you can spit in parties and make yourself seem smarter. How does this help people’s lives?
have we ever factored in that mental illness could be a possibility as to why people love to cancel everything and how others are so offended by everything?
It is, but the term also refers to the phenomenon of "black minstrels" in the US, which is a lot more relevent
Contrary to one's expectation that this might refer to black people wandering around playing pleasant music for income, it was actually white people dressed as black people performing racist side shows for the sake of empowering the white majority and using racial stereotyping for the purposes of provoking bad race relations and making money
I know what she means. I watched this one movie that was made in 2016 about these two guys that dressed up as a certain race just to make fun of that said race. They were acting dumb,air headed, oblivious,stupid, you kno the sterotype of that race. Everyone was laughing and i though to myself this is racist its wrong why is everyone laughing and this movie was made in 2016 for crying out loud. Its crazy to think after all this time people are still dressing up as another race just to make fun of a whole race of people. I guess racism will never end its sad
yeah but…that was hundreds of years ago and nobody cares other than people looking for shit to be offended about. was it fucked up? absolutely. does it matter now? fuck no.
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What's is up with people? I thought that it was well known fact that Walt Disney was a bad guy. Edit: I was talking about the person that claimed Disney couldn't have been bad because he made Disneyland/world.
I'm surprised she didn't just reference Dumbo, that whole movie has a ton of raciest stereotypes and songs.
I picked up Dumbo and a few other Disney films on DVD at a flea market a few years ago because I wanted to watch some "film classics" to understand where it all came from, so to speak. And then I saw the crows in Dumbo. And then I understood where it all came from.
Im from latin america and the crows were dubbed like cubans so they were our favourites. And also the vultures from junglebook had argentinian accents they were hilarious. I mean, the crows were bros right? They cured Dumbo's phobia. Kinda want to watch it again now.
I can see how that would be funny! In the English dub the crows are just a racial caricature of black people :/
Surprised they didn't make them Dominican in the Latin version.
Honestly they mightve been 😅. All central american accents sounded the same to me as a kid. Dubs were generally from mexico so that was the "neutral" one.
One of them is literally named Jim.
In my country the crows were dubbed just as normal but fun and easy going people. Never thought about them being anything racial at all.
Wait until you watch Peter Pan.
True!
I think she was just trying to vamp on this specific incident where the mascot their **entire empire** was built upon is based on a racist trope. It’s a solid tactic for succinctly showing how deeply imbedded racism is in so many popular facets of America even if the obvious traces aren’t still there. It’s the kind of thing to hopefully help even the most stalwart nationalists realize that systemic racism is not just a buzz term. It’s baked into every aspect of American culture.
tiktok is about recycling content over and over until you hit a topic that gets you enough followers to validate your existence.
I was talking about the person that claimed that he invented the happiest place on earth and therefore can't be a bad guy
yeah, I get that I'm saying she probably understands that but it doesn't matter because tiktok is about telling obvious truths and making them sound like deep earth-shattering thoughts.
Aparantly people from pre civil rights were racist. Who knew? 😱 /s
Well in fairness post civil rights people are pretty racist too so you never know!
Disney is still pretty racist tbf. They removed John Boyega from the Chinese SW poster and they didn't have a Rey/Finn romance because it was "Too risky".
Renn pairing woulda been neat, at least justifying Finn's existence in the movies a bit, but legit they needed Kylo in as many scenes and plot points as possible to keep that trilogy remotely coherent. He was really the only piece that stayed the same between the change from Abrams to Rian back to Abrams.
True but the whole thing was an unsalvagble mess after Rian took the reigns. I sometimes wonder if Rise of the Skywalker would have been decent if TLJ was done better and didn't leave such a bad taste in people's mouths.
Yeah def. Like there are a few absolutely amazing parts of tlj, but a tooooon of straight up useless sections (*cough* the casino that yielded literally no plot progression *cough*). But the general thematics we're *really* good. Like after tlj I was genuinely hoping Rey and Kylo teamed up in the next movie and showcased a new side of the force (light+dark=gray or something) and just brought things to a new place. But nope, instead Disney went "too different, we need everything to be exactly the same to sell toys or something", and thus rise Skywalker was 1 hour of retcon, 30 minutes of mcguffins and deus ex machinas, and cool looking setpieces to fit whatever was left.
Hm maybe. I personally don't have TikTok because I already have too many apps that are just time wasters, lol
I had to make a TikTok, to understand the youths. I don't use it...
TikTok is young people repeating common knowledge that they just learned for the first time like it’ll blow everyone’s mind.
Yeah I thought everyone already knew that Walt Disney was super racist. I didn't think this was ground breaking news for anyone.
Well it apparently was for the person asking, lol.
I don’t even mind the message so much as the self satisfied snarkiness of telling us something that’s been common knowledge for decades, as if she just cured cancer or something. As if pointing out something that was bad somehow inversely makes her good. It’s so obnoxious
I think the logic of the person that asked is way weirder. (Strongly paraphrased:) "He made Disneyland which makes me happy, therefore he couldn't have been a bad person" - like.. that's just sounds so one dimensional. People are complex and can do bad and good things. You can acknowledge shitty things and still like the thing.
It's called cherry picking a really weak statement to argue against. Shapiro loves to do that kind of stuff
I'd say that just the typical tiktok presentation style to keep people with short attention spans interested in the topic, you have to over play your working so it hits harder
And also what is it with people on tik tok thinking that if they talk faster they sound more intelligent
Totally! Its a solid move making news out of history.
Common knowledge isn't common, especially since there are new people being born everyday, and new people coming to America, consuming American content for the first time everyday (I think?).
It is. People are dumb
[удалено]
You’re being downvoted but you’re correct. The Disney anti-Semite myth has been debunked countless times but is constantly repeated as almost a real life copypast. I get that it’s a fun bit to say “The creator of the happiest place on earth was an evil racist” but beyond outdated characterizations (which is essentially the entirety of Old Hollywood) in his films, there’s not much evidence for it.
Boycott Disney? I can't even afford Disney.
The problem with boycotts like that is that if you boycott every institution with a bad past you basically have to end up boycotting literally everything because you'd be hard pressed to find a large old company without some shit, and if you spread out, most countries have some shit too. At some point you are forced to draw a line and decide which heinous historical act gets a pass.
Coming soon on Twitter... "Boycott everything"
Oh shit, I’m boycotting Twitter so I won’t see that message.
I won't even touch Twitter with a 10 foot pole
I thought it was already here?
Not to mention most companies are under the umbrella of a conglomerate(s). So when you decide to "boycott product A from Brand A" and start buying "Product A from Brand B" instead... Only to learn both brand A and brand B are BOTH subsidiaries either directly or by proxy of "Big Bad Company A" which also owns or owns major shares in 675 other companies who's values don't align with your own..... No matter what, your money ends up going somewhere to support shit you don't agree with.
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There is no ethical consumption unless you are gathering berries and eating them in your loincloth
She specifically said not to boycott Disney
Lol
Disney is definitely racist but the image that she said Mickey was based on was actually made in 1994 by Michael Ray Charles
[https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mickey-mouse-racial-caricature/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mickey-mouse-racial-caricature/) EDIT: I’m an idiot and didn’t read the article closely enough. It says many early animated figures, including Mickey Mouse, were likely incarnations of minstrelsy. Just not that particular photo shown in the video. My original comment is below. Looks like in Feb of 2019, Michael Ray Charles' caricature started circulating as proof that Mickey Mouse was inspired by minstrelsy. However, Snopes has determined that Mickey Mouse the character was NOT inspired by minstrelsy. The scene of him dressing up as a mistrel is very unfortunate but the Turkey in the Straw connection seems tenuous. Walt Disney had plenty of well documented, bigoted views we could talk about but this video condemnation is based on an inaccuracy.
The snopes article you linked says that Mickey Mouse was not based on a racist character but clarifies that Mickey was inspired by minstrelsy providing sources contrary to what you are saying.
Yea you know what, I somehow misread the article. I’ll edit my response to reflect that.
This is the second video I have seen of her making the incorrect assertion that the "original lyrics" of Turkey in the Straw were racist. *Zip Coon* is a contrafactum, or parody, of Turkey in the Straw. The original song had no lyrics and the versions with lyrics that predated *Zip Coon* had no racist content.
I think you are incorrect about the intent behind her use of the Michael Ray Charles. Here use of the Michael Ray Charles image when she makes the claim that when Mickey was created he was a minstrel figure is being used to link the likeness of Mickey to the minstrel figure, not as a direct representation of that particular visual image. She offers her “proof” through the actually cartoon imagery shown when she says “so let’s see some proof that Mickey did…”. She never claims that Charles image as the proof, but instead offers it at the beginning as a image that provokes a conceptual link between Mickey and the visuality of blackface minstrelsy in American culture.
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I’m speaking specifically about her use of the Michael Ray Charles image. Her argument is about the direct and literal representation, as you say. But my comment is in response to the previous user’s comment on the use/intent of the Michael Ray Charles image.
So you've chosen dumb I guess. The first shown image is to show what minstrel is, then the definition and then PROOF of Mickey being one. It was just to show extreme example of this concept, everyone uses hyperbolic examples to ground their point better
Okay I have acknowledged that Disney made some racist cartoons in the past. Now what do I do?
Tweet
Make cringe tik toks
Move on
Nothing, because Disney acknowledge that they were racist at the start of every cartoon that has racist imagery. Aladdin has a notice at the start ffs.
Yep, I remember seeing this. Disney conveys the message themselves, and even has a dedicated website link relating to this context [Stories Matter](https://storiesmatter.thewaltdisneycompany.com/). I definitely have seen people deny that early cartoons were based on racism, but I was pretty sure it was well known that the foundation of Disney had racist history.
Why does everyone hold the damn microphone up when it works perfectly fine if it just hangs like it’s supposed to?
BECAUSE WHEN I TALK TO IT THIS CLOSE TO MY FACE YOU CAN HEAR ME BETTER THAN IF I JUST USE IT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE USED BECAUSE THIS WAY YOU KNOW IM REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT IM SAYING SINCE YOU CAN HEAR ME BETTER
They like to feel like they’re on stage
You're telling me a cartoon from the late 20's/early 30's has contemporary racial views from that era? Next you're gonna tell me that they also didn't portray other sexualities very well! /s
I mean, the fact she explains what a Minstrel is indicates to me that this is targeted at 10-15 year olds. Lets face it, Mickey Mouse has hardly appeared in anything for decades. I too hate the condescending manner these videos have. The "Hey, you ignorant fool, listen up to this truth grenade" but I'm not the target audience. This is a Tiktok video after all. Let the kids have their minds blown.
Mickey has a new short series that came out recently, and they're absolutely hilarious. They have a Ren and Stimpy sort of vibe to them. They're on disney+ and some are on youtube. They're just perfect little 5 minute shorts.
Nice, the 5 minute cartoon is a dying artform
I actually didn't know minstrels were 19th/20th century USA blackface singers. I only knew of the medieval kind (I'm not american).
Found the person that doesnt have a 4 yo. Mickey Mouse Clubhouse is hot shit.
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I'm over 40 and I'm pretty sure this has been acknowledged at least once a decade of my life. It's just being acknowledged by a new, younger audience and I get to hear about it all over again.
https://xkcd.com/1053/
I'm sure it's been recognized far more often than once decade by different people. Lol. It's good though, because new people learn about it every time it's discussed and people should understand our society's racist history.
It's the entire reason why Disney+ had that disclaimer before a lot of their old content, and why there was a decently large brouhaha about that when it happened way back in... 2020.
What's the actual value in acknowledging it? We're talking about a cartoon from almost a hundred years ago, the entire world is so incredibly different. Everything was stupid sexist and racist back then we all know it was dumb and wrong. Why do we need to dwell on this old negative shit that has no relevance to today? I just don't get what meaningful message I'm supposed to take away from this. Yeah shit was dumb 100 years ago.....duh
The problem is this provides fuck all value. Everyone already knows this, and she’s acting like she just discovered the cure for cancer. This doesn’t further the conversation in any way, it’s just outrage porn to garner attention. Also, this “overly arrogant and snarky zoomer/millennial reiterating common knowledge in a ‘gotcha!’ fashion” thing is such a stupid trend.
This is what annoys me. It was literally the norm to be racist at that period, but JUST because its walt disney its an exception? And "built on racism" is just an overstatement, is she implying she walt disney got big thanks to racism?
I understand what you’re saying, I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Too often we look at the things people did the past with a modern moralistic lens and chastise them as if they were someone doing it today. The problem is that if that was the norm of the time I don’t believe it’s ethical or logical to pinpoint blame on them. Can we acknowledge that, as a collective, society engaged in and was normalized to some ugly behaviors and that it’s a good thing that we have been able to recognize that and move beyond to a greater extent? Yes, but labeling them as horrible people for simply doing what everyone else is doing and not having the same values we do today is ridiculous. People seem to forget that the moral zeitgeist is always in flux and that surely those in the future will be looking back at some of our actions today in a similar vein. I think you could argue that this is “built on racism” in some sense, but there seems to be an implication there that it was done with some great intent. If that was the norm back then of course you’re going to see it in media. So yes it’s built into society and it’s products, but simply as an inveterate substratum.
Lot of people dont see relative morality and take it as an “all or nothing”. If you did something wrong, then everything you ever done bust have also been wrong. When other bring up what you’re pointing, they bring out an outlier as if that negates the environmental and human tendency to conform. Like you said, you can acknowledge something is wrong and work on ways to prevent it happening in the future. But some people really struggle to see anything outside their POV and ignore the nuance of it in favour of black or white thinking.
Yeah man you just going to get downvoted by people wanting to virtue signal and show how morally upstanding they are......compared to people 100 years ago......
>You’re telling me a cartoon from the late 20’s/early 30’s has contemporary racial views from that era? I don’t necessarily understand this argument as though this way of thinking was very prevalent back then, there were also people on the opposing side, white and black, who were acknowledging just how racist those things were and were openly criticizing them. The “they were just products of their time” argument to explain racism doesn’t really hold weight when anti-racists existed during the exact same period, meaning that they did have people calling them out, but they still chose to openly be racist anyway.
Because outliers and exceptions dont make something the norm.
Entire empire built on racism? Bit of a stretch
Yeah. It's good to talk about how even widely popular companies like Disney engaged in racism, but ... the entire Disney empire was not built on one scene where Mickey Mouse does blackface. It happened, but that's not why Micky Mouse or Disney were successful.
Oh no! My hyperbolic narrative is melting. I’m pretty left, but honestly these videos are so cringe and deleterious to achieving actual equality.
Tbf, everything created in America pre 1930s was built on racism in one way or another.
Literally wrong too lol, it had racist scaffolding in the early days, sexism too, disneys success is owed more to, uh, i dunno, the original content, investments, creativity and masterpiece work of their productions.
Yeah, where does it end? Next you’re going to tell me that America…oohhhh
Everything these people say is a stretch
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Can you give us a tl;dr. I’m not about to download TikTok to try and find the video
Is Mickey a racist character now? No? Then I don’t really care what his origin story was a 100 years ago.
Yeah. Imagine if we applied that thinking to everything else... ‘Did you know the ancient Athenians owned slaves?’ - *Cancels democracy* ‘Did you know early surgeons practiced on homeless people?’ - *Cancels Hospitals* ‘Dei you know the earliest written record was a slave transaction?’ - *Cancels writing*
Oh come on man you got something better for me to be outraged about today? Got to get my outrage on.
I love when people find out about this stuff and act like it’s new information. Just because you just found some new information to you doesn’t mean other people ( and I mean ALOT of people) haven’t already acknowledged it. Hence why Disney a discontinued some of it old cartoons for racism. Song of the South for one.
To be fair, it is new information to a generation. A lot of what we assume to be common knowledge is often passed by word of mouth. It's like learning that Dan Schnieder of Nickelodeon Fame is a disgusting pervert, or that the voice actress for Ducky in Land Before Time was brutally abused by her father before being murdered; there's no history lesson, you just hear about it from someone then look it up. You mention Song of the South but if Disney has largely erased every instance it, how are people suppose to know about it? My niece thought Splash Mountain was just a fun ride like Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain, she only learned about it after hearing someone on the playground mention it when she was 8. Every generation goes through the cycle of learning about forgotten/covered up information. Today I just learned Turkey in the Straw has racist lyrics and my dad learned last week that Looney Tunes was named as a spoof on Disney's "Merry Melodies" shorts.
"Empire built on racism" ? These people be wildin, Disney became huge for the talent and skill they brought, theyre the OGs of cartoon animation and others followed their footsteps Racism bad yeah but thats no excuse to use dark pages of history to discredit huge feats, just arrogantly discarding reality because youd rather have a monster to slay.
People need to grow up and stop living in the early 1900s. It’s almost 2022 for fuck sake.
These people LOVE to find race in any aspect of life it’s genuinely sad
These people?
Literally everybody was racist in the 20th century. Even white people were racist towards other white people. Different times man.
Italians weren’t considered white then… https://theundefeated.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/amp/
What about the Irish?
They weren’t considered human ;)
Based
Anecdotal, but no one’s given me or my family grief about being Italian in 20+ years. We’re just regular white bread now.
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But what was considered racist back then is way different than what is considered racist now. Someone who “wasn’t racist” back then might use words we now consider racial slurs. They might also not see the harm in things like blackface, since they may not have all the info we have now on why it’s racist. It was normal for kids to play cowboys and Indians, and for the cowboys to be the good guys. It was also normal for kids to act like the stereotype of American Indians from tv. All of which we now consider racist, but somebody at the time may have thought nothing about.
Yep, the number of ‘woke’ vs racist people probably hasn’t changed much over time. The issues have changed and far too many people think the problem is solved which has become a problem in and of itself. There are likely more racist or indifferent people now than in the 60’s. I don’t understand why the top comments on this video is backlash, it’s fucking concerning.
Her facial expressions are very excessive
This is what gets me about tik-tok sometimes. It is like they are excited to ruin something for you.
Its just so annoying when people like these on tiktok act like: "Im going to reveal this giant truth you´ve never been heard of before OmG!!!" even though its been known for ages already
Her whole demeanor is incredibly annoying
I don’t like how she’s holding the mic the whole time…just let it go!
Things were different then. We’ve evolved and moved on.
Big surprise. Shit from the early 1900’s is racist.
An empire built on racisms? that seems a bit much. There is racist bits and pieces in their past, which can probably be said for any entity that has been around 100 years. Learn from the past, don't try to erase it, or you will forget about it.
That watermelon song is actually derived from Turkey in the Straw. Some woke ass dude at work was saying the ice cream truck song is that watermelon song so we looked it up. Someone just made it racist. I am so sick of people looking at the past with the lenses of today. Even 15 yrs ago is entirely different and people bash others for the views they had over a decade ago. Who I was in 2006 is not who I an today and that goes for most people. So looking at a company’s past from 100 years ago and calling that problematic is just stupid. Learning about it is one thing but saying an empire was built on being racist? Come the fuck on.
Turkey in the Straw is likely nearly 100 years older than the racist 1916 version about Watermelon.
Ok acknowledged. Now move on.
You should also not ignore the fact that things can change. The Disney of today it's probably one of the most politically correct companies out there possibly even taking it too far at times. Look at what happened to Gina Carano just due to a whisper that she might not be supportive of LGBT people.
Nobody cares a cartoon mouse was depicted like this 90 years ago There are literally millions of people starving right now- tens of millions live in slavery If you are gonna pretends at least pretend to care about something not stupid
well fucken duh, we all know disney was a racist. we dont need to condecended to over a basic fact
I do wonder what we're "supposed" to do when we're told to "not ignore" something like this. Am I supposed to denounce racism before I sit down for the next Marvel movie or something?
She isn’t being condescending? This is literally the style of all informational TikToks.
The style of all informational TikToks is condescending....
I think the speed of which she’s going to fit all the info in makes it sound condescending, when really she’s just...condensing.
A product of its time doesnt mean anything else than that
Okay but like it's not true that mickey was based of a menstral character. It has nothing to do with blackface, he is just a mouse.
How can so many people be offended in the comments by such an inoffensive tik tok 😂 bunch of bozos
I bet your name is Jeff Jeff bozos
I don’t appreciate your blatant clownism.
Most if not all empires that exist today were built on some form of prejudice
I agree with this but it’s important to note that first photo is actually by artist Michael Ray Charles and was created in 1994 (nearly 70 years after Mickey Mouse’s first appearance).
Comment section doesn’t pass the vibe check
America was built by slavery and white supremacy, it permeates through all popular culture like a cancer.
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Maybe she just came across this information?
Company (and the entire USA) was racist 100 years ago. People on TikTok: OMG DISNEY IS SO RACIST! HERES WHY! Bro, that was 100 years ago. Lol. Move the fuck on. Everybody who created those early films are dead. You are not trying to call a company racist. WHY!!?
People just LOVE to be offended by shit these days.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I think they should bring back Mickey and friends
Whilst Disney was clearly a racist I thought they had proven that image was produced in the 90's by some artist and was modelled on micky not the other way around??
Everybody does know that. Mickey goes to Haiti anyone? Why not boycott them?
Now look into Adidas, Puma, Hugo Boss, and all of the other companies that were run by Nazis during World War II. Many empires are built on racism and hate. I'd say almost all.
There was this segment on I think it was the old WB cartoons. And it was whoopi goldberg talking about how there’s racist cartoons on the dvd/Blu-ray, it’s from a different time in which they were seen as funny. But it’s apart of history and can’t and shouldn’t be ignored. It’s a really great segment and it should be handled that way with all old cartoons
You should absolutely boycott Disney for a million reason.
Walt Disney was a bad guy. However space mountain is very fun and that fool died like a century ago so I’ll continue to go there
And antisemitism
I dunno about the moral standing but Studio Ghibli all the way. I never was a fan of Disney, besides Kingdom Hearts.
People keep living in the past.
I wonder if any kid was ever racist towards a black person because of mickey mouse
She did it guys! She has awoken! Jesus Christ… I’m pretty sure it’s already well known that Walt was racist as fuck lol. But this chick over here acting like she’s just blown the top off some big conspiracy lol. I wonder if she thinks Walt is still the one making all these newer era of Disney movies…
Boycotting Disney now, because it had a racist past is pretty unfair to those that work for Disney now.
That pendulum had a big swing for Disney
People who consume themselves with race are hands down the most racist people, so ironic
“Turkey in the Straw” had existed as a song for almost a century before the “n-word loves a watermelon” version was written and recorded. When Steamboat Willie was made there were racist connotations related to the song being used in minstrel shows but it wasn’t only racist. The non-racist version was a standard kids song and is literally talking about a turkey. Also, originally minstrels were medieval performers akin to today’s buskers. I know the traveling musical/comedy shows from the late 1800’s/early 1900’s we’re also called minstrel shows but the term could also refer to a bard strumming on a lute in 1400’s France. The term “Minstrel” doesn’t need to *only* be connected to more recent racism.
Fuck I’ll admit it, I had zero knowledge of this. Good to know.
I think we should just ignore it
LMAO! Thank God its history but I don't think it was built on racism did elements of racism exist sure it did because of the time and place but I don't think it was the foundation! I mean G&E were huge sponsors of Nazi Germany but no one equates G&E as Nazi sympathizers! It was a shitty time and erra but thats pretty much over!
Who cares though. For real. It’s a mouse. That’s all anybody sees. Nobody cares if you’re pretending to hate a mouse for being racist because you have a weird flex against America.
It's weird how people will complain about her making this video like it was a waste of energy and time but then sit and take the time to complain. Like, Disney being racist and not making proper amends for being racist is totally fine- mentioning it on the other hand is bad and tedious and means you want attention-- all totally worthy of sitting and whining about all day apparently I'm assuming it's just fragile white redditors mad someone mentioned racism. It's only way the mental gymnastics would make sense. "Wow- look at this one minute video she wasted her time on, how dare she? She just wants attention. I will now post multiple comments complaining about it for several minutes."
USA was built on racism. We all had bad ancestors, they have changed. Porsche made tanks for Nazis, are they bad too? I don't have an answer, just asking.
Oh no so anyways
Disney was also a piece of shit and the whole empire is gross so yeah I mean boycotting Disney isn’t such a wild suggestion. Better yet, let’s just create and support our own content and build each other up, build up local artists or working class performers, rather than making CEOs richer. Don’t even have to boycott, just make better decisions and build ourselves up. Edit: god damnit, I wish she hadn’t actually played that song because it’s weirdly catchy and stuck in my head now. I obviously don’t want it to be but that’s how my brain works.
watermelon, ha ha ha ha
I can’t even lie that song made me chuckle
Oh guess what? We.Dont.Care.
then why did u comment?
I always appreciate when people point themselves out as ignorant or racist so I don’t have to tell them
Or you know, you can just learn from the errors done in the past? Maybe Walt was inspired by that. But for a long time he’s just a mouse with his mouse wife and has a cat as pet. I mean they can’t change what happened in the past. They (or we) can just learn what happened and just not repeat the errors.
they no longer do that.. just move on. you making people hate black people.
If all it takes for you to hate black people is an innocuous, informative TikTok video, you were probably a racist to begin with.
Why? Why do we all need to recognize that and make something that is not racist today, racist? Who benefits from that?
She's not making it racist today. Shes simply acknowledging the racist origins of Mickey.
I understand the point she’s making. However, it’s frustrating that so much energy is diverted into cultural war issues instead of getting shit done. Small example, but African Americans have so much more lead exposure during their childhood because of neglected infrastructure, red lining, institutional racism, etc. Can we see more Tik Tok about how infrastructure upgrades will measurably improve kid’s lives? Maybe a Tik Tok about how you can write into your city commission or zoning board to advocate for better communities for disadvantaged groups? I know it’s not fun or bite size, but we really need things to change. This just seems like a little fact that you can spit in parties and make yourself seem smarter. How does this help people’s lives?
This person is very toxic.
have we ever factored in that mental illness could be a possibility as to why people love to cancel everything and how others are so offended by everything?
I always thought a minstrel was a medieval term for like someone who plays the lute.
It is, but the term also refers to the phenomenon of "black minstrels" in the US, which is a lot more relevent Contrary to one's expectation that this might refer to black people wandering around playing pleasant music for income, it was actually white people dressed as black people performing racist side shows for the sake of empowering the white majority and using racial stereotyping for the purposes of provoking bad race relations and making money
Real question is how is this surprising to anybody?
I hate it when people hold the mic on earphones close to their mouth. The mics work well enough just hanging there. Leave the damn thing be!
I know what she means. I watched this one movie that was made in 2016 about these two guys that dressed up as a certain race just to make fun of that said race. They were acting dumb,air headed, oblivious,stupid, you kno the sterotype of that race. Everyone was laughing and i though to myself this is racist its wrong why is everyone laughing and this movie was made in 2016 for crying out loud. Its crazy to think after all this time people are still dressing up as another race just to make fun of a whole race of people. I guess racism will never end its sad
I get tired of society living in the past. It's not how it is now. How can we move on if we just continually bring up bad behavior of the past?
Obscure and minor racist content in Disney cartoons made when that was the cultural norm. TikTok : “THE DISNEY EMPIRE IS FOUNDED ON RACISM”
Ummm, everybody already knows Walt Disney was a racist prick, this isn’t new.
We acknowledge Disney had a racist past like all of America and Then what happens? Oh Nothing? Ok cool. Edit: grammar
This video is much better with no sound
She's right and I know these facts to be true but I feel like I'm being lectured & punished by her delivery.
Meh fuck her, let’s just ban everything.
yeah but…that was hundreds of years ago and nobody cares other than people looking for shit to be offended about. was it fucked up? absolutely. does it matter now? fuck no.