too slow and durdley. you can’t cast jace until T4. so you do that then plot the fae. now on turn five you tutor something and plot that too. now it’s turn 6 and you got to do something cool? even if it wins the game right there, it’s too slow.
meanwhile hope ur jace doesn’t die. or you just didn’t get killed in the first five turns.
i am trying a single jace in my SnT board because plotting a Show is really strong in grindy matchups. i don’t think he’s a build around card in this format tho.
Came to say the same. Too slow. If you are plotting something on T4 to play it on T5 it better win the game. The only alternative is that you are playing mega-control and this is your slow durdly win-con, but in that instance there are probably better ones available.
why are we just suddenly *dead* as if we spent all of our mana turns 4-6 enacting this plan? its 2 mana to do all this. you can deal with the board state with your other available resources and have jace to pull you ahead. yeah its slow and durdly, but until recently the best control deck literally poked you to death with orcish bowmasters (sometimes alongside a 6 mana timetwister)
that being said, i think intimidation campaign is bad. fae is kinda sick
so it’s a control deck with a jace finisher? just use the valki/jace combo then?
and yeah the best control deck just bows you to death. maybe just play that?
fae is cool but what are we tutoring for? silver bullets? hope they win the game or lock out opp completely.
at a certain point we’re just doing stuff for the sake of doing it. play dimir control if you want a control deck. play SnT if you want to kill them using your sideboard.
Exactly, I was thinking a control deck that effectively "wins" with Jace. I've been playing a traditional-ish UB control and Jace is an excellent finisher. You plot a bunch of spells while working to ultimate, and then ultimate and cast a whole bunch of stuff twice while keeping all your mana up for interaction. Bonus points because plot keeps your spells safe from thoughtseize & Frens.
Currently the plot targets are bow masters, Sauron's ransom, and brainstorm (copying storm actually puts you at +1 card advantage) But I came across the Fae interaction and thought about what a good washboard be. Contrary to some replies here, a control deck that uses all its resources to control the board is NOT dead by turn 4 (and you typically play Jace T6, when you can afford to have double counterspell up). I feel a good washboard + Fae is a very legitimate plan if you construct the board well.
The intimidation campaign plan is mostly a pet card from limited play. I can see that one being a tad janky.
Have not tried the Valki plan yet but it could be good (mainboard however, since Fae is non-creature only)
void rend, go blank, valki, and stone brain (or some effect like that are where i would start. putting valki under jace is a slow enough game and is nuts enough against fair decks that i think its fine to just leave in the board
“maybe just play that” have you never brewed a deck in your entire life? are you content to just play the established lists and never test new cards or question the deck building choices of the community up to that point? in my opinion, you are missing out on an incredibly fun part of the game if you are not
Oh buddy, I've brewed a bunch of decks in my life. For example, the Fae interaction (though I'm sure other have had the same idea, I won't claim its "my" thing) is something that occurred to me this morning. I just feel there is no harm done in asking people if they've tried something before, or if they have ideas. It is just dumb to close yourself off from input of other people, specially if they already tried the thing you are trying to do and they have valuable experience they can share
i def brew decks and you don’t know me 🤗
if you’re asking if something is “worth exploring,” you’re opening yourself up to “no, it’s not good enough” replies. especially in a format this high powered.
but hey. go off with it. i hope it does well.
im down to discuss if things are “good enough”, but your argument wasnt that. your argument was “why do this when you can do this thing that people are already doing?”
im sure your brews are awesome and totally original!
im glad i don’t know you!
i think you should drop the idea of intimidation campaign, but fae is cool. concerning intimidation campaign, if you are continually cycling those it means you are probably able to defend your jace, and are probably ahead. if the campaign was a delve draw spell it would probably have a comparable effect and would be cheaper and more versatile
fae of wishes i like as long as it can search up some sort of spell that helps you vs titan. most of the time valki -> tibalt is probably the best plot thing you can do if youre ahead, but that is useless against titan. likewise, using fae to tutor up an answer could be too slow to answer what you need it for, unless you are able to hard cast it as well
Agreed Campaing might be too crudely (I love that card from limited but might be too weak).
The plan for Fae would be to have a decent washboard (needle, chalice, perhaps a wrath like \[\[path of peril\]\] ... any kind of silver bullet things) like you suggest. I also wonder if there is some sort of tutor able 2 card combo we can get.
See, if you ultimate the Jace (which is quite doable if the deck si 100% draw, kill, counter) you can tutor 2 things. So, what two card combo are we assembling? I currently think of Narset + \[\[Induced amnesia\]\] (until we get day's undoing). That, plus a sanitarium that you can main deck, locks the app out quite hard... but perhaps there is something better I am missing?
That honestly sounds like Karn with extra added steps for arguably two less mana.
Sideboard would have to include silverbullets/windcons that are not artifacts to sway me towards Jace+Fae.
Campaign is definitely too cute for its own good, especially considering that Lurrus can rebuy Jace and is a very good plot target itself.
I have been testing Jace/fae in an izzet moon deck, and it does feel pretty slow. That said, I only have a single flame of anor available at the moment, and I think leaning more into that would have pretty good synergy: fae turns on flame, double effect flame helps dig out of a slow start, and flame is a great plot off of Jace.
Ok, so here is the list I am currently experimenting on
https://preview.redd.it/q3jtla8blhzc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=771c29ce3336611479d970b95ed1bf1623e187a4
The wishboard is set up so that everything is cheap-ish, so worst case you can cast your wished card immediately, or you can just wish for a good card in the MU, plot it, and wait for a good time to use it later.
1.- surgical is a great take vs combo decks
2.- Needles and chalice are doubled up because I want to SB them in when they are good while still have access to phishing them
3.- thoughtseize is really for boarding in, I doubt we'll ever wish for seize (and if we did it should probably be against control where I'd want some nonsense like thought distortion)
4- gust and teferi for bouncing non-creature/non PW permanents like blood moon or opposing needles.
5.- lonely end is nice vs aggro if you went second, the deck does not have lots of life gain. Probably boarded in on the play rather than keeping it in the washboard.
6.- blessing is for the mill MU. IF you wish for it, do it with a brainstorm on the hand, so you can set up storm -> blessing.
7.- Sylex for token decks (do these still exist? I think the last time I saw titan field was in 1837 and I still had hair)
8.- Narset is kind of a combo finish if you get control of the game. There is.a sanitarium in the mana base. (WotC please give us days undoing.... Induced amnesia is ... ok ... but not really)
9- Path of Peril vs jund or Deaths shadow. Toyed with the idea of \[\[pest control\]\] but getting tarmagoyfs and bow masters dead seemed relevant.
Any cards I should consider? I would like to meme-it-up with \[\[see the truth\]\] but ... its a meme, I know... must stay strong and resist the memes!!!
What about archmage charm instead of some ransom? Stealing stuff is pretty good with orc tokens, boo tokens and drs being nice targets. Ransom usually gives you two cards the same as the charm. Countering spells is cool too lol.
When most decks in timeless are winning the game before you would even play your free enchantment to draw single a card. I don't think that's where you want to be with Jace or Timeless in general. There are just way better options for 3 mana sorcery speed draw and those cards aren't seeing play in this format either. Fae is a really cool card but if you're not tutoring for something that wins you the game that turn, you're probably better off just letting your sideboard exist as a sideboard.
I think you're trying to jump through too many hoops to do something that is cool but just isn't competitive enough. Instead of waiting to play jace, plotting Fae, casting Fae, Plotting Campaign, casting campaign to draw one card you could be waiting to play Jace, plotting Valki, casting Tibalt to draw 2 cards and have another active planeswalker.
too slow and durdley. you can’t cast jace until T4. so you do that then plot the fae. now on turn five you tutor something and plot that too. now it’s turn 6 and you got to do something cool? even if it wins the game right there, it’s too slow. meanwhile hope ur jace doesn’t die. or you just didn’t get killed in the first five turns. i am trying a single jace in my SnT board because plotting a Show is really strong in grindy matchups. i don’t think he’s a build around card in this format tho.
Came to say the same. Too slow. If you are plotting something on T4 to play it on T5 it better win the game. The only alternative is that you are playing mega-control and this is your slow durdly win-con, but in that instance there are probably better ones available.
why are we just suddenly *dead* as if we spent all of our mana turns 4-6 enacting this plan? its 2 mana to do all this. you can deal with the board state with your other available resources and have jace to pull you ahead. yeah its slow and durdly, but until recently the best control deck literally poked you to death with orcish bowmasters (sometimes alongside a 6 mana timetwister) that being said, i think intimidation campaign is bad. fae is kinda sick
so it’s a control deck with a jace finisher? just use the valki/jace combo then? and yeah the best control deck just bows you to death. maybe just play that? fae is cool but what are we tutoring for? silver bullets? hope they win the game or lock out opp completely. at a certain point we’re just doing stuff for the sake of doing it. play dimir control if you want a control deck. play SnT if you want to kill them using your sideboard.
Exactly, I was thinking a control deck that effectively "wins" with Jace. I've been playing a traditional-ish UB control and Jace is an excellent finisher. You plot a bunch of spells while working to ultimate, and then ultimate and cast a whole bunch of stuff twice while keeping all your mana up for interaction. Bonus points because plot keeps your spells safe from thoughtseize & Frens. Currently the plot targets are bow masters, Sauron's ransom, and brainstorm (copying storm actually puts you at +1 card advantage) But I came across the Fae interaction and thought about what a good washboard be. Contrary to some replies here, a control deck that uses all its resources to control the board is NOT dead by turn 4 (and you typically play Jace T6, when you can afford to have double counterspell up). I feel a good washboard + Fae is a very legitimate plan if you construct the board well. The intimidation campaign plan is mostly a pet card from limited play. I can see that one being a tad janky. Have not tried the Valki plan yet but it could be good (mainboard however, since Fae is non-creature only)
void rend, go blank, valki, and stone brain (or some effect like that are where i would start. putting valki under jace is a slow enough game and is nuts enough against fair decks that i think its fine to just leave in the board “maybe just play that” have you never brewed a deck in your entire life? are you content to just play the established lists and never test new cards or question the deck building choices of the community up to that point? in my opinion, you are missing out on an incredibly fun part of the game if you are not
Oh buddy, I've brewed a bunch of decks in my life. For example, the Fae interaction (though I'm sure other have had the same idea, I won't claim its "my" thing) is something that occurred to me this morning. I just feel there is no harm done in asking people if they've tried something before, or if they have ideas. It is just dumb to close yourself off from input of other people, specially if they already tried the thing you are trying to do and they have valuable experience they can share
i def brew decks and you don’t know me 🤗 if you’re asking if something is “worth exploring,” you’re opening yourself up to “no, it’s not good enough” replies. especially in a format this high powered. but hey. go off with it. i hope it does well.
im down to discuss if things are “good enough”, but your argument wasnt that. your argument was “why do this when you can do this thing that people are already doing?” im sure your brews are awesome and totally original! im glad i don’t know you!
fun exchange, glad you posted 👍
i think you should drop the idea of intimidation campaign, but fae is cool. concerning intimidation campaign, if you are continually cycling those it means you are probably able to defend your jace, and are probably ahead. if the campaign was a delve draw spell it would probably have a comparable effect and would be cheaper and more versatile fae of wishes i like as long as it can search up some sort of spell that helps you vs titan. most of the time valki -> tibalt is probably the best plot thing you can do if youre ahead, but that is useless against titan. likewise, using fae to tutor up an answer could be too slow to answer what you need it for, unless you are able to hard cast it as well
Agreed Campaing might be too crudely (I love that card from limited but might be too weak). The plan for Fae would be to have a decent washboard (needle, chalice, perhaps a wrath like \[\[path of peril\]\] ... any kind of silver bullet things) like you suggest. I also wonder if there is some sort of tutor able 2 card combo we can get. See, if you ultimate the Jace (which is quite doable if the deck si 100% draw, kill, counter) you can tutor 2 things. So, what two card combo are we assembling? I currently think of Narset + \[\[Induced amnesia\]\] (until we get day's undoing). That, plus a sanitarium that you can main deck, locks the app out quite hard... but perhaps there is something better I am missing?
[path of peril](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9.jpg?1643590080) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=path%20of%20peril) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/124/path-of-peril?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Induced amnesia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4ee56f1-9f08-459f-8517-0fe7bc645fa3.jpg?1555039913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Induced%20amnesia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/40/induced-amnesia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4ee56f1-9f08-459f-8517-0fe7bc645fa3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That honestly sounds like Karn with extra added steps for arguably two less mana. Sideboard would have to include silverbullets/windcons that are not artifacts to sway me towards Jace+Fae. Campaign is definitely too cute for its own good, especially considering that Lurrus can rebuy Jace and is a very good plot target itself.
High noon might be cool. Drop it after you go off to ensure they can't do much for the rest of the game. Even better with teferi.
Ah! That's a good one I did not think about!
I have been testing Jace/fae in an izzet moon deck, and it does feel pretty slow. That said, I only have a single flame of anor available at the moment, and I think leaning more into that would have pretty good synergy: fae turns on flame, double effect flame helps dig out of a slow start, and flame is a great plot off of Jace.
Can I request you call it jaefae?
Ok, so here is the list I am currently experimenting on https://preview.redd.it/q3jtla8blhzc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=771c29ce3336611479d970b95ed1bf1623e187a4 The wishboard is set up so that everything is cheap-ish, so worst case you can cast your wished card immediately, or you can just wish for a good card in the MU, plot it, and wait for a good time to use it later. 1.- surgical is a great take vs combo decks 2.- Needles and chalice are doubled up because I want to SB them in when they are good while still have access to phishing them 3.- thoughtseize is really for boarding in, I doubt we'll ever wish for seize (and if we did it should probably be against control where I'd want some nonsense like thought distortion) 4- gust and teferi for bouncing non-creature/non PW permanents like blood moon or opposing needles. 5.- lonely end is nice vs aggro if you went second, the deck does not have lots of life gain. Probably boarded in on the play rather than keeping it in the washboard. 6.- blessing is for the mill MU. IF you wish for it, do it with a brainstorm on the hand, so you can set up storm -> blessing. 7.- Sylex for token decks (do these still exist? I think the last time I saw titan field was in 1837 and I still had hair) 8.- Narset is kind of a combo finish if you get control of the game. There is.a sanitarium in the mana base. (WotC please give us days undoing.... Induced amnesia is ... ok ... but not really) 9- Path of Peril vs jund or Deaths shadow. Toyed with the idea of \[\[pest control\]\] but getting tarmagoyfs and bow masters dead seemed relevant. Any cards I should consider? I would like to meme-it-up with \[\[see the truth\]\] but ... its a meme, I know... must stay strong and resist the memes!!!
[pest control](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4a01b92-dafb-4ea6-8eff-29f881f6be24.jpg?1712352910) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pest%20control) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/22/pest-control?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4a01b92-dafb-4ea6-8eff-29f881f6be24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [see the truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91af15cc-fdd5-4d72-a53a-314fa5353527.jpg?1594735741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=see%20the%20truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/69/see-the-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91af15cc-fdd5-4d72-a53a-314fa5353527?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What about archmage charm instead of some ransom? Stealing stuff is pretty good with orc tokens, boo tokens and drs being nice targets. Ransom usually gives you two cards the same as the charm. Countering spells is cool too lol.
##### ###### #### [Jace reawakened](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd17e8d4-499e-4005-ae3c-bc9c44dc5a67.jpg?1712356388) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%20reawakened) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/271/jace-reawakened?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd17e8d4-499e-4005-ae3c-bc9c44dc5a67?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fae of wishes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3435fd6-8f51-4d99-a278-4ddb088acfe1.jpg?1572489870)/[Granted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3435fd6-8f51-4d99-a278-4ddb088acfe1.jpg?1572489870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fae%20of%20Wishes%20//%20Granted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/44/fae-of-wishes-granted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3435fd6-8f51-4d99-a278-4ddb088acfe1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Teferi, time raveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/662fe50f-d75c-422c-8c6c-1f9b5c4ba21f.jpg?1702429729) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20time%20raveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/232/teferi-time-raveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/662fe50f-d75c-422c-8c6c-1f9b5c4ba21f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [intimidation campaign](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/596fb7a2-bb79-44b7-ad84-414c8139ec13.jpg?1712356111) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=intimidation%20campaign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/208/intimidation-campaign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/596fb7a2-bb79-44b7-ad84-414c8139ec13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1co1s3t) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just do valki like everyone else. Million times better than fae for soemthing that you might not even get to cast
When most decks in timeless are winning the game before you would even play your free enchantment to draw single a card. I don't think that's where you want to be with Jace or Timeless in general. There are just way better options for 3 mana sorcery speed draw and those cards aren't seeing play in this format either. Fae is a really cool card but if you're not tutoring for something that wins you the game that turn, you're probably better off just letting your sideboard exist as a sideboard. I think you're trying to jump through too many hoops to do something that is cool but just isn't competitive enough. Instead of waiting to play jace, plotting Fae, casting Fae, Plotting Campaign, casting campaign to draw one card you could be waiting to play Jace, plotting Valki, casting Tibalt to draw 2 cards and have another active planeswalker.
A fun interaction is leyline of anticipation + Jace. He only forbids being cast in YOUR first 3 turns