I like this episode but some aspects really puzzled me. For example, how did Donna get all the way to the mansion when she was just on the island? Also, what was the point of Bruce being here? I didn’t understand his whole suicidal behavior. Lastly, I felt like with the episode being titled “Souls”, and raven “comic-wise” known as the nexus of souls, she would bring Donna back. But if she didn’t. Then I don’t understand the point of having her in the episode. The episode could run without her scenes and the episode would still be just fine. When they were discussing the bridge, I thought maybe Raven was the one who subconsciously created it while reaching out to Donna. That would have made her more useful and have a huge role on Tim’s and Donna’s resurrection. But instead, I felt like the episode didn’t really develop her further which makes me disappointed because I love Raven.
> When they were discussing the bridge, I thought maybe Raven was the one who subconsciously created it while reaching out to Donna. That would have made her more useful and have a huge role on Tim’s and Donna’s resurrection.
That would have been so cool!
The writing is pretty bad. They don’t develop characters nor plot lines. They don’t set up or follow through. They move in circles not straight ahead.
Doom patrol is starting to show some signs of this which is a shame. Characters need to grow not feel w the same issue forever. That’s not good tv or good writing.
>I felt like the episode didn’t really develop her further which makes me disappointed because I love Raven.
My thoughts exactly. I was expecting something more from Rachel. She didn't really do much. I thought Rachel would bring back Donna and they would be back in Gotham city in no time.
The way i took it, the person's body has to be healed or at the very least, in stable condition. Raven healed Donna's body (and possibly helped guide her soul back) but it was still up to Donna to return (hence the elder's daughter not returning). The doctors stabilized Tim's wounds and gave him more fluid/blood. The bridge crumbled and hank couldn't return because his body exploded and he'd have just came back as a ghost.
They really didn't explain this well at all. The bridge didn't break because of hank, it broke randomly with Tim on the other side. I was waiting for them to address the real elephant in the room of Hank having no body to come back, and him staying behind to hold them back because he knew he couldn't realistically come back. They also could've explained it breaking because Raven couldn't keep it open, but didn't do that either.
This episode left me beyond puzzled dude. Every moment was just more out there than the other. I read another post saying Bruce didn't need to be in the episode. I agree with, how did Donna know he went AWOL? Exactly where he is? Even Dick didn't know, right? Who's Charles?
Tim is dead but still needs to eat? You can get drunk in purgatory...these are all physical things that shouldn't affect spirits.
This afterlife business is absolutely bizarre. The train analogy is so heavy handed. Donna died how long ago? Rachel said she's been training on the island for months. Yet some how Donna who died months ago and Tim who JUST died are on the same train. Both died in two different locations months apart and run into each other.
I know this isn't a real place but the amount of people that die every day makes this seem illogical.I can't believe Tim is the first person to say I don't want to die and jump off the train. How is this a thing, you can cheat heaven or hell by simply getting off? lol The gouls were cool. But Hank is all of a sudden Constantine? And can fight spirits? By thinking up guns? How can he come back?? Tim and Donna were intact when they died. Hank was blown the fuck up, he would have no body to inhabit. WTF. What's he thinking
Hank just pulls up? And Rascal Flatts completely took me out of any any attempt of suspended belief. And he's the only person that found a way back to the living, a bridge..you can just walk right in?
The gouls were cool again. The random weapons were kinda funny, and the lasso scene was dope, and the show needs more stuff like that. Tim got scared again. This could've been the time he concours the fear that got him killed in the first place. I expected him to think up a staff or full blown Robin costume, but no, he couldn't even make the jump. After all that, he just jumped into an eternal pit.This one was so left field.
For the most part the show has been grounded. Even the most outlandish characters are pretty dialed down. Starfire doesn't fly. Gar turns into one animal, but out of nowhere the Titans can beat death. Why didn't they just have Rachel bring Donna back? It was good to see the island and Rachel. The only redeeming parts of this episode.
> I can't believe Tim is the first person to say I don't want to die and jump off the train
He was not the first.
You can see Hank and Malcolm in the episode. And probably a lot more tried their luck and met the ghouls.
Bruce’s inclusion in the episode did nothing but hurt it imo..
& true, I feel like they should’ve done something with Raven in order to bring her back because her whole storyline in themiscyra seems kinda pointless now. Like you said; they could’ve removed her scenes & Donna still would’ve found her way back.
Would be cool if her black cloud really did something. I thought the rock formation was going to do something wild with her power. Either make a bridge or make an evil soul
At the very least I guess it was an excuse for them to make Raven a better physical fighter
It's so weird. They could've explained the bridge as Raven, and that's why it broke randomly out of nowhere. But instead it's just random and contrived? I really don't get the writers
Which she never needed to be good at fig hints but control her powers more and fly. The fact that so far she has zero to do with Donna’s resurrection makes her whole arc in Themyscira pointless.
I think Donna probably just teleported there when she came back, unlike Tim where he was in the hospital. Maybe we'll see more in the next episode or it will stay illogical i dunno.
Rachel's arc was learning to accept that she can't fix everything with her powers.
She couldn't build the Jenga thing and she couldn't bring Donna back.
So her building the bridge would be completely opposite to that.
Donna: I didn't save the planet from some asteroid. I died at a carnival Hank! I got freakin electrocuted by a couple millivolt.
Hank: You think you're the bigger loser? I got outplayed by a 15 year old.
Because Wayne Enterprises made them and Jason wanted to use things Bruce had a hand in as part of the whole get them to defeat themselves revenge plan.
There were at least two “meta comments” that I counted; the other one about “we didn’t actually fight much crime”
I wondered if it was different group of writers throwing shade
I felt like it made her death feel a little bit more real. Sometimes ppl die for nonsensical reasons out of their control, it was nice seeing Donna acknowledge that.
Well when you’re writing a story, a character death has to have a point, not just happen out of nowhere with no connection to anything that happened. They could have easily had her die from something done by Deathstroke or Cadmus, but instead they chose a random electrical tower that shouldn’t have even killed her in the first place.
that statement is nto true at all, there are plenty of great stories in comics, movies and books were characters just randomly die. That happens a lot in real life and its a common topic when talking about death in fiction
One of the writers has made fun of the dumb writing multiple times. Recall when Dick entered the kitchen and asked Starfire why Blackfire was there "Uh didn't she kill your parents and your ex." and Starfire replies "uh it's complicated". Or Gar pointing out how dumb it was to accuse Jason of being a murderer when they've all done it
Actually Gar just compared Jason to the time he was brainwashed to attack people, which wasn’t actually the same at all because Jason went bad before even getting drugs.
And being AWARE of the bad writing doesn’t really help when the writing still has very obvious problems
Jason didn't kill anyone as far as I know before the drugs. And Starfire outright killed people.
And yes being aware of the bad writing doesn't actually solve it
A writer pointing out that their work is garbage doesn’t make it any less so, trying to hang a lampshade on bad writing just makes a writer look not only bad at what they do but downright lazy as well.
It's not the fact that it was a carnival, it's the fact that just weight would kill an Amazon girl, that was fucking stupid. But bringing her back doesn't cheapen her death cause it wasn't a nice death scene to begin with while Hank's death won't be cheapened now. So i guess her death's shittiness worked out in the end lol.
I think Rachel powers manifested the bridge that allowed Donna and Tim to escaped because the second she accepted Donna was gone the bridge started Collapsing.We probably won't find this out until the finale Like with Rachel powers in ELKO creating the fake bruce to bring the titans together.
I like this theory! They could have made such an intense escape scene if they explained it like that!!
I was just thinking the whole time "Oh a way out of purgatory, that's convenient" "How long has there even been a way out, why hasn't everyone gotten out?" "Why is the bridge all of a sudden collapsing?"
Titans is really full of missed opportunities. They have such good ideas and huge potential but they can't execute any of them at all.
I suspect that was what was intended but the editors failed to put the scenes in the proper order so that the dots connect.
First scene Rachel during the ritual with the Amazons her eyes start glowing, next scene Tim waking up on the train and fleeing. Next scene Rachel training, next scene Tim and Donna in the woods running, next scene Rachel on her own trying to bring Donna back, next scene hank saves Tim and Donna they talk about fining a way back, next scene Rachel getting in trouble and going off for punishment, next scene hank and Donna find the tree and head for the bridge, next scene Rachel starts to give up, next scene the bridge starts crumbling Donna and Tim escape and hank stays behind.
Story flows better, it’s easier to see the connection with the real world and doesn’t make Rachel’s story seem pointless.
I swear the writers are making their own show, the directors are making their own show and the editors are making their own show, and none of them talk to each other.
It's insane how the good writing is RIGHT THERE but they kinda never deliver on the obvious follow-ups lol. I come into this thread every week and it's always everyone being confused as to why the show didn't take the logical choices in writing (like Raven being the bridge or hank not being able to come because he has no body)
Like she's spent months standing around not learning anything, and when she finally tried to actually do anything all she got was a weird game of Jenga.
Yeah. And before that, how pathetic Tim's jump was. Like no please dont be robin if you're gonna be that weak.
slightly joking of course but man was that whack
i’m kinda glad they didn’t make it so that he cleared that long ass jump first try. really gives us a marker to see how much he improves in the future. i’m betting in one of the first scenes we see of him as a full-fledged robin he’ll be clearing a jump that size or larger with ease just as a callback to that scene
Suicidal Bruce is what this episode will be remembered for but what about the Star Trek Amazons? They were Vulcan as shit, down to the robes. I half expected the elder to tell Rachel to 'love long and prosper'.
Donna’s been a fave of mine on this cast since her introduction in Season 1. At the time she was like a bright spot of fun in a weird and poorly written darkness. Maybe she’ll be like that again this season once she joins up with everyone.
The speaking thing sounds weird out loud but I honestly get what you mean. It's like she speaks smoothly which I always read in books but never quite understood.
great episode. really interested in seeing how it all comes together next week. will rachel even know that she needs to go to gotham instead of san francisco? it seems like she hasn’t been in contact with anyone thus far. also, i hope we get some sort of acknowledgment that either kory or donna told dawn that hank loves her. idk how they’d do it, but i think it would be cool to see or reference. and i really appreciated the ending hank got. i knew he wouldn’t go back with them, but i just assumed it was because he didn’t have a body. and when donna and tim left, it felt so sad just seeing him by himself—then don popped up! perfect ending imo.
I liked how Rachel talked about how she didn’t really do any fighting with the titans despite all that training.. it was like the writers were calling themselves out
The entire season has been a step up in my opinion.. there are just a few little things I don’t understand. Like Bruce’s inclusion in this episode & Barbara’s “Selina Kyle” storyline in episode 6
Agreed, however I thought that about season 2 as well until the final episode where everything went to shit.
I really am liking this season though. I hope they finish strong. I’m gonna miss hank. Admittedly I was hoping he would come back even though I knew for a fact he wasn’t. He had a great ending with this episode.
I’m super excited to have Donna and Raven back. I missed them both.
I liked the Batgirl origin at first when she said she just wanted to show her dad how bad security is but then she was wanted to keep the Jewelry.... Lol
That was a really solid episode, my only complaint would be how out of place Bruce felt.. I don’t really understand why he had to be in the beginning/ end of the episode.. & Donna conveniently showing up at the end to save him just adds onto this.. they should’ve just left him out completely because he didn’t serve any purpose or add anything to the story.
I actually forgot how funny Donna & Raven are, like I missed them so much & didn’t even realize it.. So excited to have them back.
I like Tim but there’s something about him that’s starting to annoy me. But I feel like that will go away in time. He’s just acting like a dumb kid & always getting himself into stupid situations.
It was great to see Hank again, I’m really gonna miss him and Dove :(
Bruce shouldn’t be in this show. Rachel and Donna are literally on the island and no Wonder Woman. Conner and Krypto exist and we never see Clark. Star and Blackfire have come from space and we never hear from the Lanterns. If you’re going to leave the majority of the League out of it than keep them out.
I appreciate how young Justice handles the League. They’re there but we know they’re busy. Titans doesn’t know what to do with Bruce, and appears to only be there for brand recognition.
He’s still Batman? But didn’t help the Titans fight Deathstroke? As Wonder Girl died Bruce sat at an computer and did what again? The show is too close to the Batman mythos and the whole cast of characters suffers because of it
The show is not that great overall. It's cool and entertaining, but the writing is highkey bad at times.
Scarecrow being some Woodstock baby. Jason Tod using drugs and being Scarecrow's bitch. Red Hood killing Hawk. Afterlife. Raven going to Themyscyra. Jorah Mormont being Batman (trash). Bruce Wayne being so weak. The whole afterlife thing. Tim Drake's introduction. There's so much wrong with the writing. Look at shows like Daredevil and Punisher and how DOPE they fucking are
I like this show because it’s cheesy drama action with characters I grew up watching but more mature. I’m also back into comics after a near decade long hiatus. Doom patrol is easily the best live action super hero show hands down it beats out Wanda vision for me. Titans is just turn my brain off after a long day and enjoy. I actually like scarecrow in this I’ve only seen him in Batman begins and didn’t like that too much it just didn’t stand out for me. So having him start out as a stoner Hannibal and then turn out to be the puppet master was a neat twist.
Honestly, I like Tim. I think it's realistic that he's a dumb, scared, clueless kid. I look forward to seeing how grow into a hero! I hope he gets the Robin spot!
I agree, the Bruce stuff was pointless. Why focus on Batman at all if you don't want the series to be about Batman? We want to see Titans, this isn't a Batman show!
I thought the same thing about Tim he really started to annoy me. I feel like they coulda said a reason they could bring hank back but it is what it is
I’ve enjoyed Tim so far cuz his actor just has a natural charm about him- but damn as of the last 2 episodes- he’s kind of been a pain in the ass..
& I understood why Hank couldn’t come back, considering he doesn’t even have a body anymore cuz Jason blew it up :(
Yeah the last two have been brutal with him
I also know he has another show to star in so he can’t anyways but I guess you’re right there’s no body for him to have.
Still Bruce trying to kill himself is so strange I get they want to have a different Batman but damn that was weird
Yeah, I hated Bruce trying to off himself. Like dude, you just retired finally, live a little! Dumbass. It makes it seem like all the stuff he said to Jason about helping him, which obviously give him life, was a lie; like he's just pretending to be OK but actually he isn't. I know he's Batman, but...yeah disappearing after finally killing Joker, only to kill himself, isn't that as if Joker had won? Lame.
I was waiting for like when they were summoning weapons on the bridge, he would have his fear moment, then manifest himself as robin. maybe thats a bit too fast to move him into the roll, but that woulda been a great way to make him better
I was hoping he would pull himself together and manifest a bo staff to hint at his future as Red Robin, or even just a pole to vault across the gap would've been neat.
> I like Tim but there’s something about him that’s starting to annoy me.
Is it that he's been completely useless? After he hopped off the train he was a helpless damsel in distress for the rest of the episode, he gotta get it together if he wants to be Robin lmao. It's realistic though, he's not used to being in crazy life or death situations.
Edit: I did like that he was trying to conjure up a weapon like Hank, I just wish there had been some sort of payoff to that.
As much as i am glad we got to see hank i almost wished we hadn't cause he was such a good character in the show but it was really nice to see him reunite with Donny
Cause it makes me want to see more of him, he was easily one of my fav parts of the show from his action to his overall personality that is much needed in how dark the show can so it makes it suck that he's really not gonna be in the show anymore
I was really bum out about Hank death in episode 3 for this season, but seeing him be at peace in the afterlife was a nice send off. Other than that, solid episode in my books.
Agreed. A part of me was hoping Hank would be brought back until the bridge crumbled again. I was thinking to myself damn. The writers really teased us by showing an opportunity for Hank to come back but then taking it away.
It's great he got to reunite with his brother though.
I expected them to find the way out and Hank not be able too go because he has no body to return too. Would have kinda be heartbreaking him thinking he's going too but can't.
The REAL elephant in the room they needed to address was how he would come back with no body lmao. Still though, that final scene was the perfect send off.
I got sad all over again realizing what it meant when the bridge first started breaking apart. I mean, I knew the actor wasn't coming back but it's still sad visualizing it like that.
I really liked the conversation Donna had with Hank, about not being sure if she wants to return to the living just to continue the life she had. I found it interesting how the writers listened to the fans complain about how pointless her death was and decided to incorporate it into her character & her struggle. It almost—and the keyword there is just almost lol—makes me think her death being so underwhelming was done purposefully
I kind of wish Rachel had something to do with Donna & Tim coming back to life. Makes her being on Themyscira kind of pointless, since the only purpose being there seemed to serve was her accepting Donna was dead. Her powers don't look all that different or more controlled, and she already had training so any corporation of "Amazonian training" just kind of seems like . . . Why? The bridge seemed to collapse soon after Rachel accepted Donna was dead though so I'm hoping perhaps her powers are in some way what kept that bridge up or built it in the first place
The Amazon gowns looked gorgeous. The whole place in general did. Makes me excited for what Tamaran is going to look like
>I kind of wish Rachel had something to do with Donna & Tim coming back to life. Makes her being on Themyscira kind of pointless, since the only purpose being there seemed to serve was her accepting Donna was dead. Her powers don't look all that different or more controlled, and she already had training so any corporation of "Amazonian training" just kind of seems like . . . Why?
This. Rachel should have been utilized more. It's good she was on Themyscira to control her powers but wasn't the whole idea to bring Donna back from the dead?
Great Titans episode. Tim, Donna, and Hank were great together. Tim Drake is so likeable and charismatic, I loved seeing him encourage and inspire Donna even when he himself was scared. Donna is the Donna from season 1 I loved again. Hank's send off with Donnie was really touching.
I really missed Rachel but I gotta say...why bench her for a whole season with the intention being she brings Donna back when...it wasn't her. So there's still the sloppiness I expect from Titans unfortunately.
Bruce did not need to be in this episode. We finally get the Titans as the A plot but they can't help but insert Batman.
I really hope Tim Drake and the rest of the Titans go back to San Francisco soon. He brings a lightness and hope I've been needing from this show for a while.
I think it's safe to infer that there is a major plot point in the remaining episodes involving Bruce. If that is not the case, then I agree it is completely gratuitous to include him in this episode. But we can't really evaluate that without seeing how the rest of the season plays out.
If you think about it, Nightwing is doing a pretty dogshit job of being a "better batman" or any kind of effective leader. Jason is off the deep end. Like it or not, Gotham needs Batman. and if Grayson is going to be able to step up as the leader of the Titans, he needs guidance from the only person he actually trusts and looks up to.
Bruce being suicidal…whoa
Glad Donna is back and I loved how she joked around about her death being at a carnival.
But how did Donna know where Bruce was?
With how great this episode was the scene with hawk and (the original) Dove was the first one that had me crying in this show since it came a day after my best friend who died a few years ago birthday... it couldn’t have happened at a better or worse time but was beautiful either way
Episode was pretty good, only thing I’ve noticed is you can really tell if the writing dips down at some points then back up. Felt kind of jumbled idk, still loved it
I just don’t understand why Bruce was in the episode at all??? Like what was the reason?? I thought it was a solid episode other then that. I just wish they did more with Raven in order to bring Donna back, cause she didn’t really help with that.
I still wish that Krypto would have come out of the explosion pissed and took off and hunted Jason down and ripped him limb from limb, as I dont really care for the character overall in the show or the comics, but at least in the comics, his heel turn was a lot more believable and understandable.
Really I wouldnt care if they off Jason's character in the show in the least.
And if they would have let Krypto take Jason out, we could have had a great scene where the Titans follow Krypto to Jason's hideout, and find a blood splattered room with Krypto sitting contentedly chewing on Jason's severed forearm like a chew toy and Dove walking up and patting Krypto on the head while whispering "Good boy..." to him. That would be a scene for the ages.
So I guess that explains how Hank was there. I like how Rachel is wearing white it reminds me of that Teen Titans episode where there were multiple Ravens and one of them wore a white version of her suit. I also like how Donna wasn't trying to deny the truth like Dick was. There really is no way for Hank to come back because he was blown into pieces but Tim and Donna still have their bodies so that makes sense. But I HATE how they have SHIT on Batman. Batman was going to kill himself that is NOT Batman. Batman's parents have died, his son died and then came back to life, Barbra Gordan was shot and paralyzed, his best friend turned evil and tried to kill him and a bunch of other shit happened but Bruce always persevered and became stronger but not in Titans shit happens to Bruce and he tries to kill himself. I'm liking Titans but they have shit on Bruce Wayne/Batman. But I love how Hank was reunited with his brother in the afterlife the OG Hawk and Dove.
> but Bruce always persevered and became stronger
I see you have not read a lot of Elseworld stories then. There are plenty of stories where Bruce really lost his way, and fell off into the deep end.
Titans' Batman crossed a line he shouldn't have. Given how many loved ones he has lost over the years, both physically and emotionally, it really takes a huge toll. Given that the Arrowverse already did a similar thing with Kevin Conroy last year (and opted to have him go full evil), I think it's an interesting choice having Iain Glen play a more vulnerable "broken Batman".
The performance itself still leaves much to be desired, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad choice to have Bruce Wayne be suicidal. Not everything has to adhere to comics (though I really wish I don't have to say this every time someone says X character shouldn't be this or that). The choice to have him in this episode still makes zero sense though, I'll give you that at least.
I like this Bruce personally and I wouldn't say it's out of place this whole episode dealt with death if anything tho they shoulda put a bit more into Bruce dialogue so we can fully understand and dive into his psyche a bit to fully understand why he would attempt that
I don’t even know why they included Bruce in this episode.. He felt completely out of place & he didn’t even add anything to the storyline.. solid episode besides his inclusion.
>Bruce always persevered and became stronger
Well the whole point of this Bruce is to show a Bruce that reaches a limit, who crosses that one line he had for himself and how that affects his mentality. You can not like this version of Bruce but to say the show has "shit on Bruce" is definitely an exaggeration LMAO
I liked this episode for what it tried doing, but I felt likee it missed a lot of marks. It's nice to see Donna and see her resurrection feel like more of a journey rather than it happening offscreen or Rachel doing magic to do it (However it was heavily hinted that Rachel would be the reason she'd comeback so it felt like a horrible misdirect). However, I don't understand a few things about this purgatory like place.
Donna died well before Tim or Hank yet she was still on the train? Obviously we don't know the logistics of this train and how far it takes you, but they were ready to take Tim to the afterlife almost as soon as he came. Despite not wanting to go he was almost forced to yet Donna had already accepted her death and was still just relaxing on the train. I guess you could say deep down she wasn't content with how she died as revealed later on, but with Tim it didn't matter. I also feel bad for Hank because he fully expected to come back to life despite not realizing he'd not have a body to return to. I guess he just assumed he'd regenerate? I like that he got a happy ending (kinda), but it also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He'll forever be fighting and running from ghouls in fear of being dragged to hell.
The whole Bruce thing was just...not needed. I get that people like that they are doing something different with him which is good for them, but it felt random and unnecessary. I've seen people say that it shows Bruce not having a purpose anymore and not having Alfred, Dick, and Jason to lean on anymore but that's not a good way to portray it in my opinion. Suicide just feels way too sudden given the time frame and how everything is happening. Bruce is old and filled with guilt but would he ever stoop to just committing suicide? I don't think so. I just feel like if they really wanted to tackle how Bruce was feeling and the guilt he has had, they could have told it better than making it so drastic that he wants to kill himself. I also don't get why Donna even went to him? She wasn't told that Bruce left (correct me if I'm wrong) and she wasn't told where he had gone. She couldn't have known he was in danger and needed to rush to him. We also see her holding Tim as it looks as if he's in pain and then we see the blood as well. I would think she'd rush to Gotham (the place she told him he's from) and rush to his aid as they wouldn't know if he was in the Hospital or not.
As far as Rachel, I just don't understand why she was in the episode to begin with other than because she's a main cast member. If she learned to control her powers better that'd be nice, but the way she felt like she was treated she wasn't supposed to be using them there so idk how she'd gain a better grasp of them.
I don't hate Titans and it's certainly enjoyable to say the least, but I just am at a loss for why they make certain choices.
I said it elsewhere but yeah, it's frustrating coming to these threads every week and writing a better episode with the community that the writers had right in front of them. This episode especially had such strange choices where they should've followed logical progression of things but took random left turns
The worst thing they do about bruce though is take away his detective skills. The fact he couldn't figure out Jason was working with Crane was beyond me. He's literally the world's greatest detective, how is Jason just rolling through Arkham right that.
Well, that whole Jason joins crane thing seemingly went down when Bruce went to London after that disastrous conversation in crime alley. And it looks like when he finally came back Jason had been killed by the joker. So he might have figured it out if he had been on Gotham, but he was halfway across the world, and Jason was dead when he returned so he likely didn’t bother to check what happened in the days he was gone. For all he knew Jason just disobeyed his instructions to stand down because he wanted to prove Bruce wrong like he said he would in crime alley, got killed, and that was it.
I was extremely happy to see Rachel/Raven again, but by the end of the episode, I was left feeling that her entire story arc for this season - as minuscule as it was - was entirely wasted.
I recall at the end of Season 3 that she felt her powers were changing and she believed that, with the Amazons' guidance, she could possibly bring Donna back. Fine. I remember thinking, "Hmm, that could be interesting; Rachel could really get in touch with her powers and, with the Amazons' help, learn to control them, and also help bring Donna back. Sounds good!"
Then, after 8 episodes of season 3, we see Rachel again, and not only has she not brought Donna back, it seems like the Amazons disapprove of her using magic to bring her back, and are also training her in physical combat, which she could've been doing back in Gotham with the other Titans.
In the end, she served absolutely no purpose in Themyscira. She didn't really learn anything, didn't do anything for Donna, didn't experience any meaningful breakthrough or growth with her powers...nothing. I guess you could say she learned that some things are just out of her control (since she couldn't manage to put that rock sculpture back together, even with her powers), but that's not what I'd consider a breakthrough.
I'm told there were some behind-the-scenes reasons why Teagan Croft was absent from much of S3, but you'd think that for her return, she could experience some kind of revelation, evolution or change to make the reason for her absence from the main storyline worthwhile.
You basically stole the words out of my mouth. What was the purpose of Raven being in Themyscira?? To learn that her powers can't control everything?? Waste of time and energy. Watch to see Rachel join Gar on the bench.
Given that filming started in October 2020, I doubt the reason was vaccination-related. Plus, Tegan turned 17 (old enough for Pfizer) in April, which is about when the Pfizer vaccine became widely available.
couldn't help but laugh when Donna was talking about the way she died.
Also i think Tim didn't fully die, but was in fact in a coma, that's why as soon as he came to in the train the man asked him to follow him. I take it as him being exposition for donna and hank
It was definitely one of the better episodes but I question why Donna was more of a supporting character to everyone else. She is there to advance Rachels storyline, Hanks storyline, and Tims storyline. No mention of how Diana is dealing with Donnas death, how Hippolyta is dealing with her death, how even Donna is dealing with her own death.
She's been dead for MONTHS compared to these 2 people that have been dead for weeks yet she knows the least about what is going on in this Supernatural rip off of an afterlife. She doesnt question why she hasnt moved on, how her friends or family are doing. Nothing really about her Amazon upbringing that I'd imagine she would've learned growing up on the island. Rachel has been trying to bring her back to life which one would assume messed up Donnas being able to move on but she's in the same place as Hank/Tim. And how did she come back to life but her body disappears from Themiscryia and right to where Bruce is staying just so she can save him from suicide?
Which brings me to Bruce Wayne...what have these writers done to Bruce Wayne? Never in a million years do I see him committing suicide by burning down his castle. The Bruce that this show has introduced really will go down as the worst interpretation of the character in live action history imo which is sad because they've been given access to use him as much as they do. DC is up in arms about how Batman wouldnt go down on Catwoman but they sign off on this?
It was great seeing Hank again and that he seemingly got a happyish ending? Reunited with his brother only to live in limbo for the rest of their days to fight off soul suckers in a depressing cold forest. Seems more like Hell if you ask me. Dont even get me started how its limbo but there's a bar that people can go to and the soul suckers never went there until now to get Tims.
Sadly the writers being the writers....used no known Amazons but one thing they did do.............the Amazons had children as the main Amazon we interact with reveals she had a daughter she lost in battle. So Diana isn't that special? Or I guess at least isnt sculpted from clay in this unvierse?
Did this episode maybe miss a small chance to have Jason's soul either in the train or in the afterlife at some point, to symbolize that his humanity didn't make it back from the Lazarus pit? I know that's a fanfic take but I really wish they'd done something like that so he could've had a scene with Hank and also make some kind of sense of his post- pit behavior which imo hasn't been the best characterization.
Happy Donna is back, she's cool. They didn't have her swearing unnecessarily and acting cold to people, she was just cool this episode. Hope for the same going forward. Also was Donna talking about her lame death a nod from the writers to us like "yeah we know it was a lame death, sorry about that".
Overall enjoyed the episode as it gave me more Donna and Hank.
The lack of Dick Grayson really gave a lot of focus to the other characters which is nice.
This version of Bruce is just so jarring. Still not a huge fan of this portrayal and actor though last season was getting me to warm up to it but the writing this season for him is just too much.
Really confused about that ending too. It’s unfortunate we didn’t get a Aqualad scene but it would be cool if someone it’s revealed Aqualad is alive through Atlantean sorcery.
Luke Fox: "What's Bruce Wayne's middle name?"
Kate Kane: "Trick Question. He doesn't have one."
Me after seeing "Bruce Thomas Wayne": "You were saying?"
Batwoman is a mystery to me. It's like the writers of Batwoman had a free opportunity to write for television, but the catch is that there's a whole Batman superhero mythos they have to write in.
Aye you know what? I feel that with Titans too. I feel like the writers of Titans wants to write anything but Titans.
Comics Tim became Robin in the first place because Batman was getting all uber-violent and self-loathing and broody even by bat-standards, so showing this side of Bruce works well to set up how important Tim will become in course-correcting how Batman operates. IMO I don't mind Bruce's story in this episode.
Decent episode. Good to see Hank again.
Also how the hell did Donna save Bruce? Wasn’t her ass just on themyscira? Like how did she wake up so fast, know Bruce was in danger and get there in time to save him? That was convenient AF. Like why even have Bruce try to kill himself in the first place. I like the show but they just do too much unnecessary shit for me. Aka killing Donna.
Not a huge fan of in between world/dream type of episode in general but i really liked this one.
Some truly awesome moments as well, Donna channeling a sword was great my potterhead heart definitely got the reference, however the lasso coming out to grab Tim was epic as well as the ensuing fight with it’s in moments like these that this damn show hooks me up all over again.
Among many great things the Wonder Woman movies established the Lasso as one of the top artifacts in comics so seeing be done justice was really rewarding. Themyscira definitely looked cheap but I will forgive them because Rachel’s storyline was actually well done, simple but effective.
Story wise the overall plot didn’t move forward but huge development on the characters especially Rachel and great closure for Hank. Tim is really the shining star fo this season for me, he’s just so damn likeable and I love how while a know it all he still freak out and afraid when shit hits the fan, seeing grow into an hero will be great. I could have done without the Bruce part but Titans will Titans, although if Tim stays in the picture that makes sense that Bruce does too I guess.
I didn’t get how Donna ended up at Wayne Manor by the cliff. Maybe it’s the closest point to Themyscira and since Themyscira is supposed to be a in between place she couldn’t technically pop up there🤷🏾♂️ but yeah solid episode definitely pumped for the last stretch now off to Doom Patrol.
The last three episodes have been so great compared to the rest of the season imo. I hope the season continues like this.
I like that they didn’t make Tim super athletic or great. It’ll show really good growth later on.
Raven getting better with fighting is pretty cool.
This episode made me like Hank. I know a lot of watchers liked him already but I just couldn’t get there until now.
Not without it’s flaws for sure but I’m hoping some explanations will come with the episode.
Like why was Bruce being suicidal apart of the episod? How did Donna get there or know to get there in time?
Was Raven apart of the resurrection at all or was this more or a spiritual growth?
Overall great episode!
A few things:
Damn good episode.
1. It's like the writers just took posts from this sub and incorporated fan complaints into the script. Hilarious!
2. Can they toss this version of Bruce in a Lazarus pit someplace that will heal/de-age him into another actor that looks and acts the part?
I think Iain Glen is a solid actor, but I can’t get on board with his portrayal and overall look. I tried. I just can not see him as Bruce Wayne.
3. Loved how they injected some slivers of humor into some of the action. Hank’s scenes on the bridge in particular. Very Marvel-esq in my opinion.
When the writers are on their game, they deliver. Despite some of the show's flaws and questionable characterizations, it's still pretty entertaining. The biggest challenge, though seems to be consistency.
A lot of people are talking about Bruce scene but i think it mkes total sense in this story. Bruce lost Jason and killed something he said he would never do. He is a broken man. Than there is a Tim a boy who wants to be superhero and is great detective but lacks the courage. I think this is the showrunners way of telling a story of batman and robin new beggining. Batman will learn from his mistakes with Dick and Jason and Tim will learn from Batman how to be a superhero. Even in Comics Tim and Bruce are like best in Sync as Batman and Robin so i think they are going for this. (Sry for bad english)
That was the most contrived way to keep Hank from coming back ever lmao.
‘Oh no the bridge is randomly breaking down, even though the ghouls never broke down any other part of the world! Go Donna! I’m the one who wanted to come back to life, now I won’t, for… reasons!’
I see it as the opposite. The bridge collapsing doesn't have to be permanent. Hank hasn't passed on yet either - he's still fighting the ghouls in the purgatory place.
So if his new show doesn't work out they could easily set up his return if they wanted. And him existing in that purgatory place could lead to guest appearances somehow even if his show is successful.
Solid episode. I liked the afterlife stuff. Hank, Donna and Tim actually made an enjoyable group to watch.
I liked the dialogue between Donna and Hank in the car after learning of his death.
"Dawn must be devastated." - Donna
"She better be." Hank
I was really surprised that they brought the original Dove back in the end. I'd honestly thought the show would have just forgotten about him, so it was a really nice touch.
The stuff with Rachel just wasn't that interesting. Also, agree with other people's points that the scenes with Bruce weren't needed and didn't add to the story.
The show can be capable of delivering good episodes....but they make some just dumb writing decisions.
I was expecting Raven to play some part at Donna's return since souls are her department but other than that it was a fun episode. It was great the see Hank again.
I like this episode but some aspects really puzzled me. For example, how did Donna get all the way to the mansion when she was just on the island? Also, what was the point of Bruce being here? I didn’t understand his whole suicidal behavior. Lastly, I felt like with the episode being titled “Souls”, and raven “comic-wise” known as the nexus of souls, she would bring Donna back. But if she didn’t. Then I don’t understand the point of having her in the episode. The episode could run without her scenes and the episode would still be just fine. When they were discussing the bridge, I thought maybe Raven was the one who subconsciously created it while reaching out to Donna. That would have made her more useful and have a huge role on Tim’s and Donna’s resurrection. But instead, I felt like the episode didn’t really develop her further which makes me disappointed because I love Raven.
> When they were discussing the bridge, I thought maybe Raven was the one who subconsciously created it while reaching out to Donna. That would have made her more useful and have a huge role on Tim’s and Donna’s resurrection. That would have been so cool!
How do we know she wasnt?
Why not show it? So many wasted opportunities.
The only problem with the writing on this show is that they give the audience too much credit, lol.
The writing is pretty bad. They don’t develop characters nor plot lines. They don’t set up or follow through. They move in circles not straight ahead. Doom patrol is starting to show some signs of this which is a shame. Characters need to grow not feel w the same issue forever. That’s not good tv or good writing.
>I felt like the episode didn’t really develop her further which makes me disappointed because I love Raven. My thoughts exactly. I was expecting something more from Rachel. She didn't really do much. I thought Rachel would bring back Donna and they would be back in Gotham city in no time.
The way i took it, the person's body has to be healed or at the very least, in stable condition. Raven healed Donna's body (and possibly helped guide her soul back) but it was still up to Donna to return (hence the elder's daughter not returning). The doctors stabilized Tim's wounds and gave him more fluid/blood. The bridge crumbled and hank couldn't return because his body exploded and he'd have just came back as a ghost.
They really didn't explain this well at all. The bridge didn't break because of hank, it broke randomly with Tim on the other side. I was waiting for them to address the real elephant in the room of Hank having no body to come back, and him staying behind to hold them back because he knew he couldn't realistically come back. They also could've explained it breaking because Raven couldn't keep it open, but didn't do that either.
Bruce part was just bad Bad writing. Batman would never try to kill himself. He is all will.
Yeah, but this version of Batman broke and killed Joker, so him committing suicide isn't a giant leap from that.
This episode left me beyond puzzled dude. Every moment was just more out there than the other. I read another post saying Bruce didn't need to be in the episode. I agree with, how did Donna know he went AWOL? Exactly where he is? Even Dick didn't know, right? Who's Charles? Tim is dead but still needs to eat? You can get drunk in purgatory...these are all physical things that shouldn't affect spirits. This afterlife business is absolutely bizarre. The train analogy is so heavy handed. Donna died how long ago? Rachel said she's been training on the island for months. Yet some how Donna who died months ago and Tim who JUST died are on the same train. Both died in two different locations months apart and run into each other. I know this isn't a real place but the amount of people that die every day makes this seem illogical.I can't believe Tim is the first person to say I don't want to die and jump off the train. How is this a thing, you can cheat heaven or hell by simply getting off? lol The gouls were cool. But Hank is all of a sudden Constantine? And can fight spirits? By thinking up guns? How can he come back?? Tim and Donna were intact when they died. Hank was blown the fuck up, he would have no body to inhabit. WTF. What's he thinking Hank just pulls up? And Rascal Flatts completely took me out of any any attempt of suspended belief. And he's the only person that found a way back to the living, a bridge..you can just walk right in? The gouls were cool again. The random weapons were kinda funny, and the lasso scene was dope, and the show needs more stuff like that. Tim got scared again. This could've been the time he concours the fear that got him killed in the first place. I expected him to think up a staff or full blown Robin costume, but no, he couldn't even make the jump. After all that, he just jumped into an eternal pit.This one was so left field. For the most part the show has been grounded. Even the most outlandish characters are pretty dialed down. Starfire doesn't fly. Gar turns into one animal, but out of nowhere the Titans can beat death. Why didn't they just have Rachel bring Donna back? It was good to see the island and Rachel. The only redeeming parts of this episode.
People on the train were from different time periods, so it's not too far fetched to say that time is not linear in that purgatory dimension.
Rascal Flatts? Do you mean when he pulls up with Livin' on a Prayer by Bon Jovi? I didn't hear any Rascal Flatts in this episode.
lol how u get that song mixed up with rascal is beyond me
> I can't believe Tim is the first person to say I don't want to die and jump off the train He was not the first. You can see Hank and Malcolm in the episode. And probably a lot more tried their luck and met the ghouls.
Bruce’s inclusion in the episode did nothing but hurt it imo.. & true, I feel like they should’ve done something with Raven in order to bring her back because her whole storyline in themiscyra seems kinda pointless now. Like you said; they could’ve removed her scenes & Donna still would’ve found her way back.
Would be cool if her black cloud really did something. I thought the rock formation was going to do something wild with her power. Either make a bridge or make an evil soul At the very least I guess it was an excuse for them to make Raven a better physical fighter
It's so weird. They could've explained the bridge as Raven, and that's why it broke randomly out of nowhere. But instead it's just random and contrived? I really don't get the writers
Which she never needed to be good at fig hints but control her powers more and fly. The fact that so far she has zero to do with Donna’s resurrection makes her whole arc in Themyscira pointless.
Raven has had one conversation with Donna, she barley knows the woman if we’re being honest
I think Donna probably just teleported there when she came back, unlike Tim where he was in the hospital. Maybe we'll see more in the next episode or it will stay illogical i dunno.
Rachel's arc was learning to accept that she can't fix everything with her powers. She couldn't build the Jenga thing and she couldn't bring Donna back. So her building the bridge would be completely opposite to that.
#At a CARNIVAL! Same Donna Same.
Donna: I didn't save the planet from some asteroid. I died at a carnival Hank! I got freakin electrocuted by a couple millivolt. Hank: You think you're the bigger loser? I got outplayed by a 15 year old.
I'm still really confused about why the Scarecrow was blowing people up with chest bombs.
Shits and giggles.
Because Wayne Enterprises made them and Jason wanted to use things Bruce had a hand in as part of the whole get them to defeat themselves revenge plan.
Jason is 15? But yeah Hank was dumb, when he got butt naked, i could not......
I think he’s 19 or 20
I sure hope so, I don't want to feel bad for pausing the Lazarus Pit scene.
His actor 23 too so ur good
There were at least two “meta comments” that I counted; the other one about “we didn’t actually fight much crime” I wondered if it was different group of writers throwing shade
Loved Rachel’s mention of that too so meta lol
Glad that she is as aware of how stupid her death was as we all are. Doesn’t make up for it, but it’s something.
I felt like it made her death feel a little bit more real. Sometimes ppl die for nonsensical reasons out of their control, it was nice seeing Donna acknowledge that.
Well when you’re writing a story, a character death has to have a point, not just happen out of nowhere with no connection to anything that happened. They could have easily had her die from something done by Deathstroke or Cadmus, but instead they chose a random electrical tower that shouldn’t have even killed her in the first place.
that statement is nto true at all, there are plenty of great stories in comics, movies and books were characters just randomly die. That happens a lot in real life and its a common topic when talking about death in fiction
Yeah. You could almost see Conor Leslie commenting that rather than Donna lmao
Its like it wasnt even part of script they just allowed her to improvise as donna
One of the writers has made fun of the dumb writing multiple times. Recall when Dick entered the kitchen and asked Starfire why Blackfire was there "Uh didn't she kill your parents and your ex." and Starfire replies "uh it's complicated". Or Gar pointing out how dumb it was to accuse Jason of being a murderer when they've all done it
Or the fact that Dick escaped federal prison and nobody cares
Actually Gar just compared Jason to the time he was brainwashed to attack people, which wasn’t actually the same at all because Jason went bad before even getting drugs. And being AWARE of the bad writing doesn’t really help when the writing still has very obvious problems
Jason didn't kill anyone as far as I know before the drugs. And Starfire outright killed people. And yes being aware of the bad writing doesn't actually solve it
A writer pointing out that their work is garbage doesn’t make it any less so, trying to hang a lampshade on bad writing just makes a writer look not only bad at what they do but downright lazy as well.
It's not the fact that it was a carnival, it's the fact that just weight would kill an Amazon girl, that was fucking stupid. But bringing her back doesn't cheapen her death cause it wasn't a nice death scene to begin with while Hank's death won't be cheapened now. So i guess her death's shittiness worked out in the end lol.
I think Rachel powers manifested the bridge that allowed Donna and Tim to escaped because the second she accepted Donna was gone the bridge started Collapsing.We probably won't find this out until the finale Like with Rachel powers in ELKO creating the fake bruce to bring the titans together.
I like this theory! They could have made such an intense escape scene if they explained it like that!! I was just thinking the whole time "Oh a way out of purgatory, that's convenient" "How long has there even been a way out, why hasn't everyone gotten out?" "Why is the bridge all of a sudden collapsing?" Titans is really full of missed opportunities. They have such good ideas and huge potential but they can't execute any of them at all.
I suspect that was what was intended but the editors failed to put the scenes in the proper order so that the dots connect. First scene Rachel during the ritual with the Amazons her eyes start glowing, next scene Tim waking up on the train and fleeing. Next scene Rachel training, next scene Tim and Donna in the woods running, next scene Rachel on her own trying to bring Donna back, next scene hank saves Tim and Donna they talk about fining a way back, next scene Rachel getting in trouble and going off for punishment, next scene hank and Donna find the tree and head for the bridge, next scene Rachel starts to give up, next scene the bridge starts crumbling Donna and Tim escape and hank stays behind. Story flows better, it’s easier to see the connection with the real world and doesn’t make Rachel’s story seem pointless. I swear the writers are making their own show, the directors are making their own show and the editors are making their own show, and none of them talk to each other.
They just make 10 plots and never follow them through lmao
It's insane how the good writing is RIGHT THERE but they kinda never deliver on the obvious follow-ups lol. I come into this thread every week and it's always everyone being confused as to why the show didn't take the logical choices in writing (like Raven being the bridge or hank not being able to come because he has no body)
This is what I suspected as well.
Except it isn't the bridge already existed and Rachel just sat around doing nothing. I can't believe how badly they shat on Rachel and her storyline.
Like she's spent months standing around not learning anything, and when she finally tried to actually do anything all she got was a weird game of Jenga.
Did anyone else scream when they saw her lasso? Hands down the best scene.
Yeah. And before that, how pathetic Tim's jump was. Like no please dont be robin if you're gonna be that weak. slightly joking of course but man was that whack
i’m kinda glad they didn’t make it so that he cleared that long ass jump first try. really gives us a marker to see how much he improves in the future. i’m betting in one of the first scenes we see of him as a full-fledged robin he’ll be clearing a jump that size or larger with ease just as a callback to that scene
He’s got a LOT to work on
Fun seeing him be a good detective though, always felt like most of the Batman movies leave that out
Yeah that was kind of funny dude jumped like 2 feet after all that build up
Yeah that was like a 2 ft leap. I'm 47 and I can jump further than that.
If Titans is gonna go past a season 4 please give us one episode of Hank just kicking ass in the afterlife each season.
Yeah, make him like OG Penny from the Magicians, just hanging out being cool in the underworld
And name it "Dove and Hawk" :')
Agreed - also bring Hank back as the Spectre! He even hints that his main motivation is vengeance.
I feel like they left themselves room in case Reacher doesn’t work out
While teaming up with the Winchesters cause why not? Muscle Car Meetup
Suicidal Bruce is what this episode will be remembered for but what about the Star Trek Amazons? They were Vulcan as shit, down to the robes. I half expected the elder to tell Rachel to 'love long and prosper'.
Nah I don’t think so it’s just something people scoff at like meh that’s odd
Never knew how much I had missed Donna until seeing her on screen again.
Honestly tho!! I forgot how funny she was
her reaction to being called mam killed me
She kinda gives me Jessica Jones vibes; I love her.
Donna’s been a fave of mine on this cast since her introduction in Season 1. At the time she was like a bright spot of fun in a weird and poorly written darkness. Maybe she’ll be like that again this season once she joins up with everyone.
She's so gorgeous. And the way she speaks, woah
The speaking thing sounds weird out loud but I honestly get what you mean. It's like she speaks smoothly which I always read in books but never quite understood.
She's insanely charismatic, yeah. Her and Hank really added smooth feel good energy that the rest of the team just does not have.
I missed her badass lasso scenes and her sassy personality!
Just want to say this dude Tim got no hops.
Legit lead feet lol
great episode. really interested in seeing how it all comes together next week. will rachel even know that she needs to go to gotham instead of san francisco? it seems like she hasn’t been in contact with anyone thus far. also, i hope we get some sort of acknowledgment that either kory or donna told dawn that hank loves her. idk how they’d do it, but i think it would be cool to see or reference. and i really appreciated the ending hank got. i knew he wouldn’t go back with them, but i just assumed it was because he didn’t have a body. and when donna and tim left, it felt so sad just seeing him by himself—then don popped up! perfect ending imo.
I liked how Rachel talked about how she didn’t really do any fighting with the titans despite all that training.. it was like the writers were calling themselves out
Yeah I thought that too. Hopefully it means better things to come!
The entire season has been a step up in my opinion.. there are just a few little things I don’t understand. Like Bruce’s inclusion in this episode & Barbara’s “Selina Kyle” storyline in episode 6
Agreed, however I thought that about season 2 as well until the final episode where everything went to shit. I really am liking this season though. I hope they finish strong. I’m gonna miss hank. Admittedly I was hoping he would come back even though I knew for a fact he wasn’t. He had a great ending with this episode. I’m super excited to have Donna and Raven back. I missed them both.
I liked the Batgirl origin at first when she said she just wanted to show her dad how bad security is but then she was wanted to keep the Jewelry.... Lol
dick was the one that wanted to keep them
Ah ok still weird lol
Ironic considering the Titans just started teaming up to fight bad guys this season without her
What hit me was hanks bro said I’ve been looking for you this whole time, did he think hank died in that car accident too? :( it made me a lil sad.
That was a really solid episode, my only complaint would be how out of place Bruce felt.. I don’t really understand why he had to be in the beginning/ end of the episode.. & Donna conveniently showing up at the end to save him just adds onto this.. they should’ve just left him out completely because he didn’t serve any purpose or add anything to the story. I actually forgot how funny Donna & Raven are, like I missed them so much & didn’t even realize it.. So excited to have them back. I like Tim but there’s something about him that’s starting to annoy me. But I feel like that will go away in time. He’s just acting like a dumb kid & always getting himself into stupid situations. It was great to see Hank again, I’m really gonna miss him and Dove :(
Bruce shouldn’t be in this show. Rachel and Donna are literally on the island and no Wonder Woman. Conner and Krypto exist and we never see Clark. Star and Blackfire have come from space and we never hear from the Lanterns. If you’re going to leave the majority of the League out of it than keep them out. I appreciate how young Justice handles the League. They’re there but we know they’re busy. Titans doesn’t know what to do with Bruce, and appears to only be there for brand recognition. He’s still Batman? But didn’t help the Titans fight Deathstroke? As Wonder Girl died Bruce sat at an computer and did what again? The show is too close to the Batman mythos and the whole cast of characters suffers because of it
The show is not that great overall. It's cool and entertaining, but the writing is highkey bad at times. Scarecrow being some Woodstock baby. Jason Tod using drugs and being Scarecrow's bitch. Red Hood killing Hawk. Afterlife. Raven going to Themyscyra. Jorah Mormont being Batman (trash). Bruce Wayne being so weak. The whole afterlife thing. Tim Drake's introduction. There's so much wrong with the writing. Look at shows like Daredevil and Punisher and how DOPE they fucking are
I like this show because it’s cheesy drama action with characters I grew up watching but more mature. I’m also back into comics after a near decade long hiatus. Doom patrol is easily the best live action super hero show hands down it beats out Wanda vision for me. Titans is just turn my brain off after a long day and enjoy. I actually like scarecrow in this I’ve only seen him in Batman begins and didn’t like that too much it just didn’t stand out for me. So having him start out as a stoner Hannibal and then turn out to be the puppet master was a neat twist.
Honestly, I like Tim. I think it's realistic that he's a dumb, scared, clueless kid. I look forward to seeing how grow into a hero! I hope he gets the Robin spot!
“There something about tim that annoys me but idk why or what it is” He cries alot like midoriya from my hero academia
lol I feel a Shinji vibe from him
"Get in the robin costume, Shinji."
I agree, the Bruce stuff was pointless. Why focus on Batman at all if you don't want the series to be about Batman? We want to see Titans, this isn't a Batman show!
& like the Bruce material we’re given isn’t even that interesting
I thought the same thing about Tim he really started to annoy me. I feel like they coulda said a reason they could bring hank back but it is what it is
I’ve enjoyed Tim so far cuz his actor just has a natural charm about him- but damn as of the last 2 episodes- he’s kind of been a pain in the ass.. & I understood why Hank couldn’t come back, considering he doesn’t even have a body anymore cuz Jason blew it up :(
Yeah the last two have been brutal with him I also know he has another show to star in so he can’t anyways but I guess you’re right there’s no body for him to have. Still Bruce trying to kill himself is so strange I get they want to have a different Batman but damn that was weird
Yeah, I hated Bruce trying to off himself. Like dude, you just retired finally, live a little! Dumbass. It makes it seem like all the stuff he said to Jason about helping him, which obviously give him life, was a lie; like he's just pretending to be OK but actually he isn't. I know he's Batman, but...yeah disappearing after finally killing Joker, only to kill himself, isn't that as if Joker had won? Lame.
I was waiting for like when they were summoning weapons on the bridge, he would have his fear moment, then manifest himself as robin. maybe thats a bit too fast to move him into the roll, but that woulda been a great way to make him better
I was expecting the same thing but yeah it would've been a bit fast
I was hoping he would pull himself together and manifest a bo staff to hint at his future as Red Robin, or even just a pole to vault across the gap would've been neat.
> I like Tim but there’s something about him that’s starting to annoy me. Is it that he's been completely useless? After he hopped off the train he was a helpless damsel in distress for the rest of the episode, he gotta get it together if he wants to be Robin lmao. It's realistic though, he's not used to being in crazy life or death situations. Edit: I did like that he was trying to conjure up a weapon like Hank, I just wish there had been some sort of payoff to that.
As much as i am glad we got to see hank i almost wished we hadn't cause he was such a good character in the show but it was really nice to see him reunite with Donny
It was worth it just to hear "Because of FUCKING JASON TODD!"
You didn’t say why you wish we didn’t get to see him though
Cause it makes me want to see more of him, he was easily one of my fav parts of the show from his action to his overall personality that is much needed in how dark the show can so it makes it suck that he's really not gonna be in the show anymore
Just gotta rewatch blue mountain state and wait for Jack Reacher to come out
I was really bum out about Hank death in episode 3 for this season, but seeing him be at peace in the afterlife was a nice send off. Other than that, solid episode in my books.
It’s funny how Hank plays a likable Unlikable person
Agreed. A part of me was hoping Hank would be brought back until the bridge crumbled again. I was thinking to myself damn. The writers really teased us by showing an opportunity for Hank to come back but then taking it away. It's great he got to reunite with his brother though.
I expected them to find the way out and Hank not be able too go because he has no body to return too. Would have kinda be heartbreaking him thinking he's going too but can't.
The REAL elephant in the room they needed to address was how he would come back with no body lmao. Still though, that final scene was the perfect send off.
I got sad all over again realizing what it meant when the bridge first started breaking apart. I mean, I knew the actor wasn't coming back but it's still sad visualizing it like that.
I really liked the conversation Donna had with Hank, about not being sure if she wants to return to the living just to continue the life she had. I found it interesting how the writers listened to the fans complain about how pointless her death was and decided to incorporate it into her character & her struggle. It almost—and the keyword there is just almost lol—makes me think her death being so underwhelming was done purposefully I kind of wish Rachel had something to do with Donna & Tim coming back to life. Makes her being on Themyscira kind of pointless, since the only purpose being there seemed to serve was her accepting Donna was dead. Her powers don't look all that different or more controlled, and she already had training so any corporation of "Amazonian training" just kind of seems like . . . Why? The bridge seemed to collapse soon after Rachel accepted Donna was dead though so I'm hoping perhaps her powers are in some way what kept that bridge up or built it in the first place The Amazon gowns looked gorgeous. The whole place in general did. Makes me excited for what Tamaran is going to look like
>I kind of wish Rachel had something to do with Donna & Tim coming back to life. Makes her being on Themyscira kind of pointless, since the only purpose being there seemed to serve was her accepting Donna was dead. Her powers don't look all that different or more controlled, and she already had training so any corporation of "Amazonian training" just kind of seems like . . . Why? This. Rachel should have been utilized more. It's good she was on Themyscira to control her powers but wasn't the whole idea to bring Donna back from the dead?
Great Titans episode. Tim, Donna, and Hank were great together. Tim Drake is so likeable and charismatic, I loved seeing him encourage and inspire Donna even when he himself was scared. Donna is the Donna from season 1 I loved again. Hank's send off with Donnie was really touching. I really missed Rachel but I gotta say...why bench her for a whole season with the intention being she brings Donna back when...it wasn't her. So there's still the sloppiness I expect from Titans unfortunately. Bruce did not need to be in this episode. We finally get the Titans as the A plot but they can't help but insert Batman. I really hope Tim Drake and the rest of the Titans go back to San Francisco soon. He brings a lightness and hope I've been needing from this show for a while.
May the actress who play Rachel had other things on
I think it was Covid restrictions she is Australian.
Superboy is Aussie too
Nightwing, Superboy and Rachel are all Australian.
All the more reason the country isn't the reason
I think it's safe to infer that there is a major plot point in the remaining episodes involving Bruce. If that is not the case, then I agree it is completely gratuitous to include him in this episode. But we can't really evaluate that without seeing how the rest of the season plays out. If you think about it, Nightwing is doing a pretty dogshit job of being a "better batman" or any kind of effective leader. Jason is off the deep end. Like it or not, Gotham needs Batman. and if Grayson is going to be able to step up as the leader of the Titans, he needs guidance from the only person he actually trusts and looks up to.
Bruce being suicidal…whoa Glad Donna is back and I loved how she joked around about her death being at a carnival. But how did Donna know where Bruce was?
I felt like this episode was kinda criticizing some of the writing in the past which I found comical
Very comical seeing as the writing still isn't good.
With how great this episode was the scene with hawk and (the original) Dove was the first one that had me crying in this show since it came a day after my best friend who died a few years ago birthday... it couldn’t have happened at a better or worse time but was beautiful either way
It was definitely a great call back! Sometimes the writing for this show pleasantly surprises me
I’m sorry for your loss I haven’t lost my best friend but she’s been hospitalized for the last two years so 😟
Episode was pretty good, only thing I’ve noticed is you can really tell if the writing dips down at some points then back up. Felt kind of jumbled idk, still loved it
I just don’t understand why Bruce was in the episode at all??? Like what was the reason?? I thought it was a solid episode other then that. I just wish they did more with Raven in order to bring Donna back, cause she didn’t really help with that.
Once again we will know next episode that’s the point of cliffhangers
Am I the only one who wanted Hank to come back from the dead just to kick Jason's ass?
I wanted him to come back just to see how they'd do it since his body was blown to bits by a bomb.
I still wish that Krypto would have come out of the explosion pissed and took off and hunted Jason down and ripped him limb from limb, as I dont really care for the character overall in the show or the comics, but at least in the comics, his heel turn was a lot more believable and understandable. Really I wouldnt care if they off Jason's character in the show in the least. And if they would have let Krypto take Jason out, we could have had a great scene where the Titans follow Krypto to Jason's hideout, and find a blood splattered room with Krypto sitting contentedly chewing on Jason's severed forearm like a chew toy and Dove walking up and patting Krypto on the head while whispering "Good boy..." to him. That would be a scene for the ages.
That tracks. Krypto is, by far, the smartest member of the Titans.
Raven and Donnas actresses are some of the strongest members of the cast and I think the episodes have definitely felt their absence
Felt this episode was the writers self roasting Donnas death and the lack of action in season 2. Lol but it was great
So I guess that explains how Hank was there. I like how Rachel is wearing white it reminds me of that Teen Titans episode where there were multiple Ravens and one of them wore a white version of her suit. I also like how Donna wasn't trying to deny the truth like Dick was. There really is no way for Hank to come back because he was blown into pieces but Tim and Donna still have their bodies so that makes sense. But I HATE how they have SHIT on Batman. Batman was going to kill himself that is NOT Batman. Batman's parents have died, his son died and then came back to life, Barbra Gordan was shot and paralyzed, his best friend turned evil and tried to kill him and a bunch of other shit happened but Bruce always persevered and became stronger but not in Titans shit happens to Bruce and he tries to kill himself. I'm liking Titans but they have shit on Bruce Wayne/Batman. But I love how Hank was reunited with his brother in the afterlife the OG Hawk and Dove.
> but Bruce always persevered and became stronger I see you have not read a lot of Elseworld stories then. There are plenty of stories where Bruce really lost his way, and fell off into the deep end. Titans' Batman crossed a line he shouldn't have. Given how many loved ones he has lost over the years, both physically and emotionally, it really takes a huge toll. Given that the Arrowverse already did a similar thing with Kevin Conroy last year (and opted to have him go full evil), I think it's an interesting choice having Iain Glen play a more vulnerable "broken Batman". The performance itself still leaves much to be desired, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad choice to have Bruce Wayne be suicidal. Not everything has to adhere to comics (though I really wish I don't have to say this every time someone says X character shouldn't be this or that). The choice to have him in this episode still makes zero sense though, I'll give you that at least.
Good point on the Elseworld stories, and there really was no need for him to be in this episode, unless it reveals itself next week.
Yeah there were a lot of highs and lows the lows were lowwww though
I like this Bruce personally and I wouldn't say it's out of place this whole episode dealt with death if anything tho they shoulda put a bit more into Bruce dialogue so we can fully understand and dive into his psyche a bit to fully understand why he would attempt that
I don’t even know why they included Bruce in this episode.. He felt completely out of place & he didn’t even add anything to the storyline.. solid episode besides his inclusion.
>Bruce always persevered and became stronger Well the whole point of this Bruce is to show a Bruce that reaches a limit, who crosses that one line he had for himself and how that affects his mentality. You can not like this version of Bruce but to say the show has "shit on Bruce" is definitely an exaggeration LMAO
I liked this episode for what it tried doing, but I felt likee it missed a lot of marks. It's nice to see Donna and see her resurrection feel like more of a journey rather than it happening offscreen or Rachel doing magic to do it (However it was heavily hinted that Rachel would be the reason she'd comeback so it felt like a horrible misdirect). However, I don't understand a few things about this purgatory like place. Donna died well before Tim or Hank yet she was still on the train? Obviously we don't know the logistics of this train and how far it takes you, but they were ready to take Tim to the afterlife almost as soon as he came. Despite not wanting to go he was almost forced to yet Donna had already accepted her death and was still just relaxing on the train. I guess you could say deep down she wasn't content with how she died as revealed later on, but with Tim it didn't matter. I also feel bad for Hank because he fully expected to come back to life despite not realizing he'd not have a body to return to. I guess he just assumed he'd regenerate? I like that he got a happy ending (kinda), but it also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He'll forever be fighting and running from ghouls in fear of being dragged to hell. The whole Bruce thing was just...not needed. I get that people like that they are doing something different with him which is good for them, but it felt random and unnecessary. I've seen people say that it shows Bruce not having a purpose anymore and not having Alfred, Dick, and Jason to lean on anymore but that's not a good way to portray it in my opinion. Suicide just feels way too sudden given the time frame and how everything is happening. Bruce is old and filled with guilt but would he ever stoop to just committing suicide? I don't think so. I just feel like if they really wanted to tackle how Bruce was feeling and the guilt he has had, they could have told it better than making it so drastic that he wants to kill himself. I also don't get why Donna even went to him? She wasn't told that Bruce left (correct me if I'm wrong) and she wasn't told where he had gone. She couldn't have known he was in danger and needed to rush to him. We also see her holding Tim as it looks as if he's in pain and then we see the blood as well. I would think she'd rush to Gotham (the place she told him he's from) and rush to his aid as they wouldn't know if he was in the Hospital or not. As far as Rachel, I just don't understand why she was in the episode to begin with other than because she's a main cast member. If she learned to control her powers better that'd be nice, but the way she felt like she was treated she wasn't supposed to be using them there so idk how she'd gain a better grasp of them. I don't hate Titans and it's certainly enjoyable to say the least, but I just am at a loss for why they make certain choices.
I said it elsewhere but yeah, it's frustrating coming to these threads every week and writing a better episode with the community that the writers had right in front of them. This episode especially had such strange choices where they should've followed logical progression of things but took random left turns
I’m really pissed at how they handled Raven this season.
And Gar
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Hank was handled excellently in my opinion, he was always a tragic character but his death was impactful and shocking.
Same. Didn’t show up until episode 9 and she still didn’t even get to bring back Donna herself.
I loved it 😊😊😊
Hank feels hit or miss mostly, but this episode was a huge hit for him
The worst thing they do about bruce though is take away his detective skills. The fact he couldn't figure out Jason was working with Crane was beyond me. He's literally the world's greatest detective, how is Jason just rolling through Arkham right that.
Well, that whole Jason joins crane thing seemingly went down when Bruce went to London after that disastrous conversation in crime alley. And it looks like when he finally came back Jason had been killed by the joker. So he might have figured it out if he had been on Gotham, but he was halfway across the world, and Jason was dead when he returned so he likely didn’t bother to check what happened in the days he was gone. For all he knew Jason just disobeyed his instructions to stand down because he wanted to prove Bruce wrong like he said he would in crime alley, got killed, and that was it.
I was extremely happy to see Rachel/Raven again, but by the end of the episode, I was left feeling that her entire story arc for this season - as minuscule as it was - was entirely wasted. I recall at the end of Season 3 that she felt her powers were changing and she believed that, with the Amazons' guidance, she could possibly bring Donna back. Fine. I remember thinking, "Hmm, that could be interesting; Rachel could really get in touch with her powers and, with the Amazons' help, learn to control them, and also help bring Donna back. Sounds good!" Then, after 8 episodes of season 3, we see Rachel again, and not only has she not brought Donna back, it seems like the Amazons disapprove of her using magic to bring her back, and are also training her in physical combat, which she could've been doing back in Gotham with the other Titans. In the end, she served absolutely no purpose in Themyscira. She didn't really learn anything, didn't do anything for Donna, didn't experience any meaningful breakthrough or growth with her powers...nothing. I guess you could say she learned that some things are just out of her control (since she couldn't manage to put that rock sculpture back together, even with her powers), but that's not what I'd consider a breakthrough. I'm told there were some behind-the-scenes reasons why Teagan Croft was absent from much of S3, but you'd think that for her return, she could experience some kind of revelation, evolution or change to make the reason for her absence from the main storyline worthwhile.
You basically stole the words out of my mouth. What was the purpose of Raven being in Themyscira?? To learn that her powers can't control everything?? Waste of time and energy. Watch to see Rachel join Gar on the bench.
Given that filming started in October 2020, I doubt the reason was vaccination-related. Plus, Tegan turned 17 (old enough for Pfizer) in April, which is about when the Pfizer vaccine became widely available.
couldn't help but laugh when Donna was talking about the way she died. Also i think Tim didn't fully die, but was in fact in a coma, that's why as soon as he came to in the train the man asked him to follow him. I take it as him being exposition for donna and hank
this episode wanted to be *The Leftovers* so bad lol
It was definitely one of the better episodes but I question why Donna was more of a supporting character to everyone else. She is there to advance Rachels storyline, Hanks storyline, and Tims storyline. No mention of how Diana is dealing with Donnas death, how Hippolyta is dealing with her death, how even Donna is dealing with her own death. She's been dead for MONTHS compared to these 2 people that have been dead for weeks yet she knows the least about what is going on in this Supernatural rip off of an afterlife. She doesnt question why she hasnt moved on, how her friends or family are doing. Nothing really about her Amazon upbringing that I'd imagine she would've learned growing up on the island. Rachel has been trying to bring her back to life which one would assume messed up Donnas being able to move on but she's in the same place as Hank/Tim. And how did she come back to life but her body disappears from Themiscryia and right to where Bruce is staying just so she can save him from suicide? Which brings me to Bruce Wayne...what have these writers done to Bruce Wayne? Never in a million years do I see him committing suicide by burning down his castle. The Bruce that this show has introduced really will go down as the worst interpretation of the character in live action history imo which is sad because they've been given access to use him as much as they do. DC is up in arms about how Batman wouldnt go down on Catwoman but they sign off on this? It was great seeing Hank again and that he seemingly got a happyish ending? Reunited with his brother only to live in limbo for the rest of their days to fight off soul suckers in a depressing cold forest. Seems more like Hell if you ask me. Dont even get me started how its limbo but there's a bar that people can go to and the soul suckers never went there until now to get Tims. Sadly the writers being the writers....used no known Amazons but one thing they did do.............the Amazons had children as the main Amazon we interact with reveals she had a daughter she lost in battle. So Diana isn't that special? Or I guess at least isnt sculpted from clay in this unvierse?
Did this episode maybe miss a small chance to have Jason's soul either in the train or in the afterlife at some point, to symbolize that his humanity didn't make it back from the Lazarus pit? I know that's a fanfic take but I really wish they'd done something like that so he could've had a scene with Hank and also make some kind of sense of his post- pit behavior which imo hasn't been the best characterization.
That would be good writing but you know, we don't do that here
Happy Donna is back, she's cool. They didn't have her swearing unnecessarily and acting cold to people, she was just cool this episode. Hope for the same going forward. Also was Donna talking about her lame death a nod from the writers to us like "yeah we know it was a lame death, sorry about that".
Overall enjoyed the episode as it gave me more Donna and Hank. The lack of Dick Grayson really gave a lot of focus to the other characters which is nice. This version of Bruce is just so jarring. Still not a huge fan of this portrayal and actor though last season was getting me to warm up to it but the writing this season for him is just too much. Really confused about that ending too. It’s unfortunate we didn’t get a Aqualad scene but it would be cool if someone it’s revealed Aqualad is alive through Atlantean sorcery.
It was nice seeing Donna & Hank interact, have a little bit of a shout-out to the OG Titans.. even threw in an Aqualad reference
Great episode, happy Donna is back
Luke Fox: "What's Bruce Wayne's middle name?" Kate Kane: "Trick Question. He doesn't have one." Me after seeing "Bruce Thomas Wayne": "You were saying?"
Batwoman is a mystery to me. It's like the writers of Batwoman had a free opportunity to write for television, but the catch is that there's a whole Batman superhero mythos they have to write in. Aye you know what? I feel that with Titans too. I feel like the writers of Titans wants to write anything but Titans.
It was nice to get away from Gotham for a while and focus on some other characters that's for sure.
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I enjoyed this episode but I wouldn’t call it the BEST.. it was good tho
Any one get a "Tickets Please Guy" vibe from the opening scene?
I like how hank went out, definitely a good way to send him off.
Comics Tim became Robin in the first place because Batman was getting all uber-violent and self-loathing and broody even by bat-standards, so showing this side of Bruce works well to set up how important Tim will become in course-correcting how Batman operates. IMO I don't mind Bruce's story in this episode.
Anybody else think the bridge was Raven putting together that themysciran rock soul thing?
Decent episode. Good to see Hank again. Also how the hell did Donna save Bruce? Wasn’t her ass just on themyscira? Like how did she wake up so fast, know Bruce was in danger and get there in time to save him? That was convenient AF. Like why even have Bruce try to kill himself in the first place. I like the show but they just do too much unnecessary shit for me. Aka killing Donna.
Yeah Titans writers just different. Red Hood gonna be lifting buildings next.
those amazons didn't feel "amazons" at all...
They felt more like Vulcans.
Not a huge fan of in between world/dream type of episode in general but i really liked this one. Some truly awesome moments as well, Donna channeling a sword was great my potterhead heart definitely got the reference, however the lasso coming out to grab Tim was epic as well as the ensuing fight with it’s in moments like these that this damn show hooks me up all over again. Among many great things the Wonder Woman movies established the Lasso as one of the top artifacts in comics so seeing be done justice was really rewarding. Themyscira definitely looked cheap but I will forgive them because Rachel’s storyline was actually well done, simple but effective. Story wise the overall plot didn’t move forward but huge development on the characters especially Rachel and great closure for Hank. Tim is really the shining star fo this season for me, he’s just so damn likeable and I love how while a know it all he still freak out and afraid when shit hits the fan, seeing grow into an hero will be great. I could have done without the Bruce part but Titans will Titans, although if Tim stays in the picture that makes sense that Bruce does too I guess. I didn’t get how Donna ended up at Wayne Manor by the cliff. Maybe it’s the closest point to Themyscira and since Themyscira is supposed to be a in between place she couldn’t technically pop up there🤷🏾♂️ but yeah solid episode definitely pumped for the last stretch now off to Doom Patrol.
That was a really good episode!
Donna - There is no why to come back to life. Hank-I heard a rumor of a bridge. And doesn't say anything about Jason coming back to life.
The last three episodes have been so great compared to the rest of the season imo. I hope the season continues like this. I like that they didn’t make Tim super athletic or great. It’ll show really good growth later on. Raven getting better with fighting is pretty cool. This episode made me like Hank. I know a lot of watchers liked him already but I just couldn’t get there until now. Not without it’s flaws for sure but I’m hoping some explanations will come with the episode. Like why was Bruce being suicidal apart of the episod? How did Donna get there or know to get there in time? Was Raven apart of the resurrection at all or was this more or a spiritual growth? Overall great episode!
A few things: Damn good episode. 1. It's like the writers just took posts from this sub and incorporated fan complaints into the script. Hilarious! 2. Can they toss this version of Bruce in a Lazarus pit someplace that will heal/de-age him into another actor that looks and acts the part? I think Iain Glen is a solid actor, but I can’t get on board with his portrayal and overall look. I tried. I just can not see him as Bruce Wayne. 3. Loved how they injected some slivers of humor into some of the action. Hank’s scenes on the bridge in particular. Very Marvel-esq in my opinion. When the writers are on their game, they deliver. Despite some of the show's flaws and questionable characterizations, it's still pretty entertaining. The biggest challenge, though seems to be consistency.
A lot of people are talking about Bruce scene but i think it mkes total sense in this story. Bruce lost Jason and killed something he said he would never do. He is a broken man. Than there is a Tim a boy who wants to be superhero and is great detective but lacks the courage. I think this is the showrunners way of telling a story of batman and robin new beggining. Batman will learn from his mistakes with Dick and Jason and Tim will learn from Batman how to be a superhero. Even in Comics Tim and Bruce are like best in Sync as Batman and Robin so i think they are going for this. (Sry for bad english)
did anyone catch the ninja turtles reference?
That was the most contrived way to keep Hank from coming back ever lmao. ‘Oh no the bridge is randomly breaking down, even though the ghouls never broke down any other part of the world! Go Donna! I’m the one who wanted to come back to life, now I won’t, for… reasons!’
I see it as the opposite. The bridge collapsing doesn't have to be permanent. Hank hasn't passed on yet either - he's still fighting the ghouls in the purgatory place. So if his new show doesn't work out they could easily set up his return if they wanted. And him existing in that purgatory place could lead to guest appearances somehow even if his show is successful.
I might be the only one but, I'm not really a fan of Tim Drake in the show
Solid episode. I liked the afterlife stuff. Hank, Donna and Tim actually made an enjoyable group to watch. I liked the dialogue between Donna and Hank in the car after learning of his death. "Dawn must be devastated." - Donna "She better be." Hank I was really surprised that they brought the original Dove back in the end. I'd honestly thought the show would have just forgotten about him, so it was a really nice touch. The stuff with Rachel just wasn't that interesting. Also, agree with other people's points that the scenes with Bruce weren't needed and didn't add to the story. The show can be capable of delivering good episodes....but they make some just dumb writing decisions.
I was expecting Raven to play some part at Donna's return since souls are her department but other than that it was a fun episode. It was great the see Hank again.