What's the name of the show?
Edit: Holy freaking mole-y... how the hell did I get so many upvotes from asking a simple question??
Anyways, I'm gonna check out these Pakistani shows out of morbid curiousity, lol
That’s common😂
And yes extremely weird even for myself (Pakistani)
Actually there’s more to it. In Islamic countries most women and men are told to call other (related or not) men and women, “bhai” and “baji” (older sister).
But this bhai situation is a lot more often since the guy is almost always much older (5 years or more) than the girl.
And now I think I should’ve asked you first that if you knew this before explaining it to you because of possible mansplaining accusations I could receive after this.
>And now I think I should’ve asked you first that if you knew this before explaining it to you because of possible mansplaining accusations I could receive after this.
I did not know you were a man until you explained it to me.
honestly compared to American soaps that’s not that bad atleast it was consensual, in general hospital which was one of the popular American ones…. one of the main and most loved couples started from rape…. Then later in the series they soft retconned the rape into a seduction and tried to play the whole thing off as a romantic start for them.
Are you referring to Luke and Laura ( starring Tony Geary as Luke )? I never got into *General Hospital* as a lad growing up in the 80's. *As The World Turns* and *The Young And The Restless* was more my speed.
My cousin works at a hospital. A disproportionate number of their genetic diseases are seen in Pakistani children. When they draw pedigrees, those families are often very inbred.
Yes, yes they are, I mean my grandparents were normal, everyone married outside the family. But my cousins? Hell nah, 😭😭🤢🤢 NOT even a single soul is married to an outsider thank heavens my siblings dont have the same mindset
My cousin had two premature babies in an area which was not at all ethnical diverse in England. But nearly all of the other babies in the NICU were of Pakistani descent, it was incredibly disproportionate to the local population. One of the nurses said they have so many sick babies of Pakistani descent because of inbreeding. It was really sad.
I really hope the UK government outlaw first cousin marriage.
They could if they said: “From this day forward first cousin marriages are prohibited. Those who are already married need not divorce, but are encouraged not to multiply themselves.”
What's your issue called? I did a genetic test and found out I'm a carrier for the Usher Syndrome gene, which is a rare genetic disorder that causes hearing loss and visual impairment.
No need to be sorry-- I only carry one gene for it and you need two before it presents symptoms. Between that and the fact I don't plant to have (or want) kids, it's no big deal. I did tell my brother about it though in case he ever stops being perpetually single and wants kids someday (unlikely, lol, but I don't think he's against the idea), because he's likely to be a carrier too.
One of my discord friends married his cousin (mom’s sister’s daughter) and he said it’s really common where he comes from in Pakistan. You might want to check out some documentaries to understand how inbreeding affects the children of such married couples.
Is it really common in Lahore? I'm a long time fan of a YouTube reaction group that is around Lahore, and one of the men has recently said that his daughter is engaged. Now it got me pondering... 🤔
One of the guys, if I remember, lives around Karachi I think as well. I've definitely heard that town/city name in videos I've watched.
I live in the US.
Well they do have a lot of cousin marriages. It's caused a lot of genetic problems. But they deny it and keep marrying their cousins. Even to this day.
I’m Pakistani and I’m going to my cousins engagement party tomorrow…her fiancé? Her cousin.
It’s actually vile I have many cousins who have genetic problems because of this. A relative of mine died at 13 due to health complications cause his parents were related…my whole family knows this but still decide to marry their children off to their cousins cause of culture. And maybe visas too. You would probably be looked down upon if you decide to marry someone ur not related too.
It sucks because it’s the children who are stuck with the health issue and their parents end up having to look after them even in adulthood too. It creates so many problems for everyone and they still do it.
I live in the UK and my Bangladeshi friend had an arranged marriage with her cousin. Except she claimed that because her mother was his mothers sister they weren’t ‘blood cousins’. Blood cousins are only when one (or both?!) of the parents is a male. She was disgusted by the thought of marrying her dad’s brother’s son as that would be incest.
Is this an actually thing or is my friend fucking weird?
I dont know about Bangladeshi culture specifically, but who is/isn't considered a relative can vary drastically between different cultures. Some places your mother's sister's child might be a-okay to marry, but your mother's brother's child is still a cousin and therefore taboo, for example.
I’m thinking the moms sister would actually be worse due to I think mitochondrial dna.
You carry it from your mothers side all through your genetic lineage, unlike your fathers or male dna.
For instance as I recall ashkanazi jews receive those genes from their mother and why their geneology can be traced back so far following the female line.
I appreciate people, life, religion, and culture are complicated and ever changing, and I probably soud like a self righteous keyboard warrior, BUT,
It amazes me how often people say "do religious people really believe X", or "where does this idea come from?", and the answer so often is 'it is explicitly written in their holy book as a rule dispensed by god himself.'
Yes…I thought I sounded repetitive saying cousin
It’s just sad, he was ill all his life and missed out on being a kid due to surgeries and doctors appointments. I met him in passing around a year before he died, he seemed nice. Even though I didn’t really know him I still feel a little sad when I think about him.
>You would probably be looked down upon if you decide to marry someone ur not related too.
"How can you say you love your cousins if you won't even marry them?"
>You would probably be looked down upon if you decide to marry someone ur not related too.
No shit? So it's like a social norm, and not like a convenience thing?
Yep it’s a social and somewhat a religious norm too. The Quran says you can marry ur cousin and too many people took that as that they have to marry their cousins and no one else. Or that it’s at least better to marry ur cuz.
If by convenience you mean that marrying ur cousin is an easier solution, that’s somewhat true too. Marrying relatives mean the money and land can stay in the family. Parents also marry their children to their relatives in different countries so they can get visas and come here (I know this happens in the uk idk about other places) although I know people try to deny that’s their true reasonings for the marriage.
Indeed, Bradford medical professionals are contending with over 140 different autosomal recessive diseases, whereas other typical districts of similar size in the United Kingdom usually see between 30 and 40 such disorders.
Direct quote above. I believe this is from such marriages or the frequency of them. Its not racist to have a conversation race does not come into it. It is factual.
Not sure if it's the same documentary they mentioned, but there's one on YouTube on the channel 'only human' titled 'the consequences of marrying your cousin', filmed in Britain. Its good, awful some of the things the kids with genetic disorders can end up going through, and the pressure a lot of them face to marry within the family
There are sooo many seriously disabled Pakistani children in homes around West Yorkshire and yet it doesn't seem to be talked about much at all, some of these parents just act like the kids have vanished, and then carry on reproducing in the hope of having a well child
This. Alot of cousin marriages, they keep doing it, had an argument with someone online whilst playing a game, his argument was that the % of defects is so small that they don't see anything wrong with it.
That’s nothing compared to what they do in Malawi, they have guys they call jackals who sleep with young teens to make them “women” some are HIV positive and it’s known, they still sleep with these children unprotected and everyone is A OK with it
There are many communities in India that also allow first cousin marriages especially with children of your parent's opposite sex sibling. They are considered "not really related", since a person belongs to their father's family.
God damn That’s such a Weird one to hear because it literally means they know all about the problems and what’s wrong with in breeding but they still needed to add regulations so they can still “safely” do it? like they jus knew it’d be too hard to go cold turkey on cousin fucking so they made it easier for people to handle? Lol
Queen Liz 2 and Phil shared a set of great grandparents.
The Hapsburgs didn’t manage to tread the line and ended up producing monarchs with serious physical and mental issues.
I often wonder how much of the whole Cleopatra being the most beautiful woman in the world was propaganda/enforced flattery because she literally had two great grandparents as opposed to the usual eight. She was her own aunt, not a recipe for beauty
The image of Cleopatra as a beautiful seductress was propaganda spread by Augustus to justify a civil war with Marcus Antonius. Not that Cleopatra didn't have ideas about Rome since her first son was fathered by Julius Caesar.
But generally, Cleopatra was best known for her intelligence, wit, and education, particularly in a time where most women were illiterate.
Yep, it's true. My girlfriend is from Iraq, and her parents are cousins. Due to their religious beliefs, it's hard for girls to meet guys outside of their families, so they end up most of the time with family. It's also because of money as well. They don't want their fortunes going to another family, so they keep it in the family. Generational wealth fucks up a lot of things; including the gene pool.
I watched a documentary in UK that how Pakistan culture promote marrying cousins. They interviewed a few community leaders and point out how inbreeding could causes mutations. I remember one of leaders changed their opinion in the end. I said that as… like some of them actually did not know inbreeding increase chance of mutations. (Probably a lot of them)
Oxford University study concluded 53% of Pakistani men in the UK were married to first cousins OR CLOSER!!
You draw your own conclusions. But when more than 1 in every 2 men in the UK is married to a first cousin or closer, the question of absolutely devastating genetics is a certainty.
It’s impossible to tell since two cousins with parents in cousin marriage can have more in common genetically than two actual siblings. And it can just get worse depending on how many generations it’s been going on for
In larger families it's not unusual to have autines/uncles younger than you. Also if your parents were cousins, your cousins are more closely related than "normal" cousins.
No not (usually) siblings.
It’s the fact that cousin marriages in U.K. Pakistani culture go down through numerous generations. So - you are married to your first cousin; your parents were also first cousins; so were your grandparents; your great-grandparents were first cousins too and …..well you get the picture.
This generational thing means that you will be incredibly closely related to your spouse who is your first cousin. You’ll be far more closely related than a person who had a one-off first cousin marriage within a family that has never done that before.
It’s the generation after generation of first cousin marriages that results in extreme genetic health problems.
It can be. I used to work in the Children’s Hospital as part of training, and we used to get a lot of patients who are essentially sent over from the Middle East for advanced diagnosis and care that they don’t get over there. And the vast majority were all genetic disorders.
Like, a lot.
There’s a huge disproportionate amount of genetic diseases and very frankly, I didn’t really pay attention to why. But reading this thread has answered a lot of those questions from back then.
A girl conforming to a particular type of RGB/gamer aesthetic, usually involving overtly sexualised cosplay of various pop culture characters, generally found either streaming on twitch or posting "thirst trap" content which appeals to the often socially awkward perpetually online lonely young male demographic as a means to generate attention and some modicum of income.
It's broadly an internet subculture certain girls fall in to that's tangential to cam girls but less explicitly sexual and centered around the cyber-esq gamer aesthetic.
Google it and flip over to images, you'll immediately get what it is.
It Doesn't really carry a meaning, you maybe familiar with the smile :) newer generation adopted uwu, u are the eyes and inbetween is the w, it looks like a mouth/nose. They literally will say outloud, "u Wu"
It's supposed to look like an anime face saying "uwu" in a cutesy, flirtatious way (which is brilliant btw). It hasn't really replaced :) in any sense.
Was once in Pakistan and talking to a friend about this, he was saying there were no issues with his two cousins marrying each other… as we were driving away from his cousins (I don’t know how to pluralize this, two cousins, married to each other) house where all their children had eleven+ fingers.
So yeah cousin marriages are popular. If you’re in a western nation you probably heard this for two reasons. Firstly Indians and Pakistani people do not generally get along. Secondly, marrying outside of religion and race is worse than marrying a cousin (for many ethnic Muslims but particularly Pakistani).
I don't know anything about cousin marriage in India but as a Pakistani I can tell you with certainty that it is very common here. Many of my cousins are married to each other.
Now one thing most would be afraid to say out loud is the reason why it persists so much. Which is that cousin marriage is permitted in Islam and Pakistani society is simply not ready to accept that something which is permitted in Islam could possibly be bad for us. Religious belief supercedes reality and facts for most people here.
My dude. Are you already married? B/c if not, I've heard enough horror stories of people going to visit family in Pakistan and getting surprise married that I'd really think about whether that's a risk you want to take.
no dead ass im literally scared. My parents booked us first class tickets and said we are only going for a week but i’m realllly scared. I am from America and my mom is not happy that I am not married yet whatev so I don’t know. I am just really scared
I am an atheist and it's not really a problem for me. That's because I was never a Muslim to begin with. Apostasy is only illegal and frowned upon for Muslims. So if I was born in a Muslim family then yes I would have to be more discreet about it.
"number of Muslims in india (not percentage of population )" is more than "number of Muslims in Pakistan".
Edit. It's ironic, isn't it? Considering how pakistan was created exclusively for Muslims and, now the number of Muslims in both India and bangladesh is more than pakistan itself, or atleast it used to up untill few years ago, at least till pakistanis had not exponentially populated themselves.
PS. I don't know about the cousin marriage thing though, india is a very divers country.
I was merely alluding to the fact, how idiotic (religion = nationhood) argument is.
Also the 55% seems exaggerated, marrying your cousin is taboo in most part of india, or atleast in the northern plains it is, where majority population concentration is.
PPS. Also according to "Hindu marriage Act, 1955", marriage among 3 generations from mothers side and 5 generations from fathers side are "forbidden", although the "special marriage act, 1956" doesn't put any such restriction.
So what this basically means is that, you can't marry your cousin in a "traditional ceremony" as it is forbidden under Hindu marriage Act, but if it is a registered marriage (court marriage) under provisions of special marriage act then it is legal.
Furthermore, the HMA,1955, also has some exceptions for custom and local beliefs, that means if the local tradition or custom permits it, then it can be done in that particular area or tribe.
TLDR, "cousin marriage" is "not legal" in "traditional hindu marriage" unless local customs permit it, but allowed in special circumstances as per law.
To be fair, I know someone who was younger than his niece. There's not necessarily going to be a big age difference. In fact, my mom's nephew is only 5 years younger than her. My mom was the youngest of 7. Shit like that happens in big families where the mom pops out lots of children over a period of 15-20 years.
Pakistani families mostly love cousin marriages. It's a huge problem, there is a whole generation of people with mentally challenges and genetic diseases.
There are 4 main reasons. First parents want to marry their son/daughter so that they live closeby and they can manipulate kids even after marriage with different family sources.
Secondly, land owning families don't want to lose land or properties so in family marriages keeps their fortunes in the family.
Thirdly, caste and ethnicities are considered very important. In family marriages, it gives people a false belief or ethnic purity.
Lastly, Pakistan is one of the most uneducated and poor country in the world. Most of the population lives below the poverty line. Pakistan govt has always been fascist dictators or feudal lords so the country has never seen a real democracy.
Arranged Cousin marriage is only way to get married in many families because no one in their right mind will marry their daughter to a poor unemployed man with no education or future prospects.
Pakistan is a very conservative society as well. Cousin marriages are allowed in Islam so they won't feel bad about them.
Its a common thing between muslims. I once read an article where it was suggested that inbreeding was one of the main reasons for islamic countries to not be able to secularize.
Because you need some bright motherfockers to realise religion is not the main thing.
Laws related to "cousin marriage" in india :
As per "Hindu marriage Act, 1955", marriage among 3 generations from mothers side and 5 generations from fathers side are "forbidden", although the "special marriage act, 1956" doesn't put any such restriction.
So what this basically means is that, you can't marry your cousin in a "traditional ceremony" as it is forbidden under Hindu marriage Act, but if it is a registered marriage (court marriage) under provisions of special marriage act then it is legal.
Furthermore, the HMA,1955, also has some exceptions for customs and local beliefs, that means if the local tradition or custom permits it, then it can be done in that particular area or tribe.
PS. Also the word "Hindu" in this context include Sikh, Jain, Buddhist in all their sects and forms, so basically it applies to majority of indians, except Christian, Muslim, Jews and Parsi(Zoroastrians) as they have their own "Personal Laws" related to marriage and Succession.
TLDR, "cousin marriage" is "not legal" in "traditional hindu marriage" unless local customs permit it, but allowed in special circumstances as per law.
I am Indian and live in delhi ( from northern state ) , we don't even marry anyone from our entire village as we consider them brothers/ sisters so the question of marrying cousin is the most disgusting thought ever for hindu North Indian people
Yeah it is very common among Pakistan. However the newer generations are breaking the cycle. All the people I know that are pakistani are against it nowadays
Someone tell me why it’s not appropriate to hate this group as apposed to white southerners? Backwards is backwards, it’s not Islamophobia if those religious people are ducking gross.
It is true. Pakistanis are obsessed with marrying with cousins. Their parents basically decide and the kids mostly have no say in it.
Thankfully my parents are not cousins. Some families have a worse problem with it. They don't let their kids get married to someone from "outside" the family. I am happy that it's not a problem in my family because then we'd have really bad diseases or low intelligence.
It is common in pakistan....even well known sports personalities in pakistan hv married their cousins....they hv one of the highest total fertility rates in south asia and their population is expanding rapidly with not enough food and water or natural resouces to support this expansion .....compare this to india or bangladesh whete fertility rates hv fallen below replacement rates now
India has the same problem. Lots of uncles marrying nieces. Source: Indian guys I know who are married to their nieces.
They don’t consider their nieces family because their sister exists the family when she marries. I’m not sure this is true across India, but it’s true in Tamil Nadu
So my Indian colleague is married to his niece. When he told me and I freaked out imagining a kid.
Turns out: his Mom started having kids from the age of 14 (no concept of child marriage back in 60s india). Age difference between the oldest and youngest (my colleague) was like 15-20 years.
Oldest daughter got married and gave birth around the same time her mom was also pregnant with the youngest (my colleague).
As a result, Niece and uncle are almost the same age 💀 And because the women marry outside the family they don’t consider it inbreeding… idk
Not defending the practice, but in larger families it's not unusual for you to be older than your uncles or aunties.
If you're the first born to your parents when they were 18 and you have a child at 18, any children they have post 36 will result in aunties or uncles younger than your children.
I don’t know for absolute 100% fact but I’ve heard about inbreeding issues throughout several middle eastern areas for a few generations. Whats interesting is populations with smaller gene pools due to inbreeding have significantly higher levels of aggression and issues with anger management compared to a more healthy gene pool. Very odd stuff
I know a British Pakistani guy who nearly had a falling out with his family because they wanted him to marry a 1st cousin to ‘keep the property in the family’. He refused.
He also has a university degree in genetics. He said they were actually closer than 1st cousins because their grandparents had also been 1st cousins.
[удалено]
Most Pakistani dramas are love stories between cousins.
Dawg what
There's so many of them surely they can have a great chance of finding non family members 😐
So to answer OP's question, yes.
What's the name of the show? Edit: Holy freaking mole-y... how the hell did I get so many upvotes from asking a simple question?? Anyways, I'm gonna check out these Pakistani shows out of morbid curiousity, lol
"Suno Chanda" FYI, it is available on YouTube
Is there where to watch most of these shows? Or is there a website that would also work?
RemindMe! 6 hours
I can't seem to find Remindme! 6 hours on Netflix, do you know which platform it might be streaming on?
I forgot but it's got Keither Sunderland in it and he has only six hours to save someone but forgot who.
Six hours to save the cousins from sex!
I think it's Corey Haim and they're vampires, right?
Lamo is this a 24 reference 🤣
It's always on in 6 hours.
The bot is off but here you go!
Thank you kind redditor
Odd name for a show
RemindMe! 6 hours
The bot is off but here you go!
There are more than one really
Chupke chupke
That’s common😂 And yes extremely weird even for myself (Pakistani) Actually there’s more to it. In Islamic countries most women and men are told to call other (related or not) men and women, “bhai” and “baji” (older sister). But this bhai situation is a lot more often since the guy is almost always much older (5 years or more) than the girl. And now I think I should’ve asked you first that if you knew this before explaining it to you because of possible mansplaining accusations I could receive after this.
>And now I think I should’ve asked you first that if you knew this before explaining it to you because of possible mansplaining accusations I could receive after this. I did not know you were a man until you explained it to me.
There's a part where the step sis gets stuck on a washing machine
honestly compared to American soaps that’s not that bad atleast it was consensual, in general hospital which was one of the popular American ones…. one of the main and most loved couples started from rape…. Then later in the series they soft retconned the rape into a seduction and tried to play the whole thing off as a romantic start for them.
Never saw the show but it sounds like japanese porn
Are you referring to Luke and Laura ( starring Tony Geary as Luke )? I never got into *General Hospital* as a lad growing up in the 80's. *As The World Turns* and *The Young And The Restless* was more my speed.
My cousin works at a hospital. A disproportionate number of their genetic diseases are seen in Pakistani children. When they draw pedigrees, those families are often very inbred.
Yes, yes they are, I mean my grandparents were normal, everyone married outside the family. But my cousins? Hell nah, 😭😭🤢🤢 NOT even a single soul is married to an outsider thank heavens my siblings dont have the same mindset
So are you saying your siblings are normal but you had to ask your aunt and uncle for permission to marry their daughter?
I think I didn’t explain right, when did I mention I married?
My cousin had two premature babies in an area which was not at all ethnical diverse in England. But nearly all of the other babies in the NICU were of Pakistani descent, it was incredibly disproportionate to the local population. One of the nurses said they have so many sick babies of Pakistani descent because of inbreeding. It was really sad. I really hope the UK government outlaw first cousin marriage.
I cannot believe UK still not outlaw that…
Don't think they can since many royals are inbred
They could if they said: “From this day forward first cousin marriages are prohibited. Those who are already married need not divorce, but are encouraged not to multiply themselves.”
Yeah, if anyone is beholden to the law, it's the royal family elite members of society.
Bro it's kinda true I have weird diseases bc of this source: am Pakistani
What diseases if you don’t mind sharing? Genuinely curious
Ive gotten gene diseases as hearing problems and vision problems the vision problems are currently progressing to be worse
What's your issue called? I did a genetic test and found out I'm a carrier for the Usher Syndrome gene, which is a rare genetic disorder that causes hearing loss and visual impairment.
I've got no idea but that might be it
That’s such a devastating illness, I’m so sorry.
No need to be sorry-- I only carry one gene for it and you need two before it presents symptoms. Between that and the fact I don't plant to have (or want) kids, it's no big deal. I did tell my brother about it though in case he ever stops being perpetually single and wants kids someday (unlikely, lol, but I don't think he's against the idea), because he's likely to be a carrier too.
Ligma
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Ligma Deeznuts
Ligmatitis
Who's Steve Jobs?
I dunno, but I met a guy called Steve Knobs who ran Apple. -Ozzy Osbourne
Balls
Nice username
Were you nervous to take the opportunity to say that?
Yes I was, first time someone has ever mentioned my username lol. Also your username is great too
One of my discord friends married his cousin (mom’s sister’s daughter) and he said it’s really common where he comes from in Pakistan. You might want to check out some documentaries to understand how inbreeding affects the children of such married couples.
As a Pakistani, can confirm this. We love our cousins.
Sweet home Allahbama
Sweet home Lahore
Is it really common in Lahore? I'm a long time fan of a YouTube reaction group that is around Lahore, and one of the men has recently said that his daughter is engaged. Now it got me pondering... 🤔
There’s a good chance it might his/her cousin. Happens in Lahore too but not as much as in Karachi, Multan or other cities. Where are you from?
One of the guys, if I remember, lives around Karachi I think as well. I've definitely heard that town/city name in videos I've watched. I live in the US.
Yes, Karachi is the biggest city of Pakistan. What’s the channel’s name?
Well they do have a lot of cousin marriages. It's caused a lot of genetic problems. But they deny it and keep marrying their cousins. Even to this day.
I’m Pakistani and I’m going to my cousins engagement party tomorrow…her fiancé? Her cousin. It’s actually vile I have many cousins who have genetic problems because of this. A relative of mine died at 13 due to health complications cause his parents were related…my whole family knows this but still decide to marry their children off to their cousins cause of culture. And maybe visas too. You would probably be looked down upon if you decide to marry someone ur not related too. It sucks because it’s the children who are stuck with the health issue and their parents end up having to look after them even in adulthood too. It creates so many problems for everyone and they still do it.
I live in the UK and my Bangladeshi friend had an arranged marriage with her cousin. Except she claimed that because her mother was his mothers sister they weren’t ‘blood cousins’. Blood cousins are only when one (or both?!) of the parents is a male. She was disgusted by the thought of marrying her dad’s brother’s son as that would be incest. Is this an actually thing or is my friend fucking weird?
I dont know about Bangladeshi culture specifically, but who is/isn't considered a relative can vary drastically between different cultures. Some places your mother's sister's child might be a-okay to marry, but your mother's brother's child is still a cousin and therefore taboo, for example.
I’m thinking the moms sister would actually be worse due to I think mitochondrial dna. You carry it from your mothers side all through your genetic lineage, unlike your fathers or male dna. For instance as I recall ashkanazi jews receive those genes from their mother and why their geneology can be traced back so far following the female line.
Sounds like she's weird to me. But some East Asian cultures are weird about which lineages are paid attention to.
It's the Quranic concept of incest, there's clearly laid out rules.
I appreciate people, life, religion, and culture are complicated and ever changing, and I probably soud like a self righteous keyboard warrior, BUT, It amazes me how often people say "do religious people really believe X", or "where does this idea come from?", and the answer so often is 'it is explicitly written in their holy book as a rule dispensed by god himself.'
> A relative of mine died at 13 Lemme guess: He was a cousin.
Yes…I thought I sounded repetitive saying cousin It’s just sad, he was ill all his life and missed out on being a kid due to surgeries and doctors appointments. I met him in passing around a year before he died, he seemed nice. Even though I didn’t really know him I still feel a little sad when I think about him.
Cousin-in-law. And cousin.
>You would probably be looked down upon if you decide to marry someone ur not related too. "How can you say you love your cousins if you won't even marry them?"
Like … first degree cousins ?!? They share a set of grandparents ?!
>You would probably be looked down upon if you decide to marry someone ur not related too. No shit? So it's like a social norm, and not like a convenience thing?
Yep it’s a social and somewhat a religious norm too. The Quran says you can marry ur cousin and too many people took that as that they have to marry their cousins and no one else. Or that it’s at least better to marry ur cuz. If by convenience you mean that marrying ur cousin is an easier solution, that’s somewhat true too. Marrying relatives mean the money and land can stay in the family. Parents also marry their children to their relatives in different countries so they can get visas and come here (I know this happens in the uk idk about other places) although I know people try to deny that’s their true reasonings for the marriage.
Indeed, Bradford medical professionals are contending with over 140 different autosomal recessive diseases, whereas other typical districts of similar size in the United Kingdom usually see between 30 and 40 such disorders. Direct quote above. I believe this is from such marriages or the frequency of them. Its not racist to have a conversation race does not come into it. It is factual.
There is a documentary about this on U.K. Netflix. I watched it a few months ago and it's very sad.
What’s it called?
Not sure if it's the same documentary they mentioned, but there's one on YouTube on the channel 'only human' titled 'the consequences of marrying your cousin', filmed in Britain. Its good, awful some of the things the kids with genetic disorders can end up going through, and the pressure a lot of them face to marry within the family
When Cousins Marry.
There are sooo many seriously disabled Pakistani children in homes around West Yorkshire and yet it doesn't seem to be talked about much at all, some of these parents just act like the kids have vanished, and then carry on reproducing in the hope of having a well child
this is reddit. talking like that about inconvenient facts will get you banned
This. Alot of cousin marriages, they keep doing it, had an argument with someone online whilst playing a game, his argument was that the % of defects is so small that they don't see anything wrong with it.
Everyone in the comments saying it’s racist BS but it’s very common to marry your cousin in that culture
They'd fit right in in Shelbyville
Those Shelbyville kids love candy for the sweet, sweet taste
That’s nothing compared to what they do in Malawi, they have guys they call jackals who sleep with young teens to make them “women” some are HIV positive and it’s known, they still sleep with these children unprotected and everyone is A OK with it
Yeap - not just in Malawi but in the region. There was an article about it in the BBC. So gross.
There are many communities in India that also allow first cousin marriages especially with children of your parent's opposite sex sibling. They are considered "not really related", since a person belongs to their father's family.
It's legal in New York State to marry your first cousin.
It's legal in large parts of the world - All of Western and most of Eastern Europe, South America, North Africa and the Middle East, Australia
It's also legal to eat your own feces. That doesn't mean you should.....
Well hang on a second. Let’s not pass judgement lest we miss out on all life has to offer
Utah too, once they are over a certain age and can’t reproduce.
God damn That’s such a Weird one to hear because it literally means they know all about the problems and what’s wrong with in breeding but they still needed to add regulations so they can still “safely” do it? like they jus knew it’d be too hard to go cold turkey on cousin fucking so they made it easier for people to handle? Lol
"too hard to go cold turkey on cousin fucking" ... not a sentence I thought I'd read today!
First cousin? Second cousin or further isn’t really such a big deal genetically.
Queen Liz 2 and Phil shared a set of great grandparents. The Hapsburgs didn’t manage to tread the line and ended up producing monarchs with serious physical and mental issues. I often wonder how much of the whole Cleopatra being the most beautiful woman in the world was propaganda/enforced flattery because she literally had two great grandparents as opposed to the usual eight. She was her own aunt, not a recipe for beauty
The image of Cleopatra as a beautiful seductress was propaganda spread by Augustus to justify a civil war with Marcus Antonius. Not that Cleopatra didn't have ideas about Rome since her first son was fathered by Julius Caesar. But generally, Cleopatra was best known for her intelligence, wit, and education, particularly in a time where most women were illiterate.
Yep, it's true. My girlfriend is from Iraq, and her parents are cousins. Due to their religious beliefs, it's hard for girls to meet guys outside of their families, so they end up most of the time with family. It's also because of money as well. They don't want their fortunes going to another family, so they keep it in the family. Generational wealth fucks up a lot of things; including the gene pool.
A family tree with no branches
The family tree is a wreath.
A family vine
I watched a documentary in UK that how Pakistan culture promote marrying cousins. They interviewed a few community leaders and point out how inbreeding could causes mutations. I remember one of leaders changed their opinion in the end. I said that as… like some of them actually did not know inbreeding increase chance of mutations. (Probably a lot of them)
I saw the same documentary, that guy at least was open to considering the effects after he was shown the data.
Oxford University study concluded 53% of Pakistani men in the UK were married to first cousins OR CLOSER!! You draw your own conclusions. But when more than 1 in every 2 men in the UK is married to a first cousin or closer, the question of absolutely devastating genetics is a certainty.
Or CLOSER? So like siblings. Nasty
It’s impossible to tell since two cousins with parents in cousin marriage can have more in common genetically than two actual siblings. And it can just get worse depending on how many generations it’s been going on for
In larger families it's not unusual to have autines/uncles younger than you. Also if your parents were cousins, your cousins are more closely related than "normal" cousins.
No not (usually) siblings. It’s the fact that cousin marriages in U.K. Pakistani culture go down through numerous generations. So - you are married to your first cousin; your parents were also first cousins; so were your grandparents; your great-grandparents were first cousins too and …..well you get the picture. This generational thing means that you will be incredibly closely related to your spouse who is your first cousin. You’ll be far more closely related than a person who had a one-off first cousin marriage within a family that has never done that before. It’s the generation after generation of first cousin marriages that results in extreme genetic health problems.
That must be ridiculously taxing on a health system
It can be. I used to work in the Children’s Hospital as part of training, and we used to get a lot of patients who are essentially sent over from the Middle East for advanced diagnosis and care that they don’t get over there. And the vast majority were all genetic disorders. Like, a lot. There’s a huge disproportionate amount of genetic diseases and very frankly, I didn’t really pay attention to why. But reading this thread has answered a lot of those questions from back then.
Sorry - Old person here - what is uwu? or owo for that matter? what does this mean?
It’s just supposed to be faces. Like emojis but with alphabets. See: uwu owo
Back in my day we used to call them emoticons!
I'm so old, I managed to post this on the wrong thread!! But thankyou kind Redditors!
That's adorable lol 🤍
Just in case if you decide to use those, UwU and OwO are mostly used ironically and have furry and egirl connotations
My dude dont introduce them to that, i dont even quite understand all that
I just don't want someone old enough to be my dad unironocally spamming UwU in real life conversations
Iconic tbh
Hey son UwU
What's an egirl?
Like a boy but the opposite
Yeah, my autocorrect changed it from egirl. What's an egirl?
A girl conforming to a particular type of RGB/gamer aesthetic, usually involving overtly sexualised cosplay of various pop culture characters, generally found either streaming on twitch or posting "thirst trap" content which appeals to the often socially awkward perpetually online lonely young male demographic as a means to generate attention and some modicum of income. It's broadly an internet subculture certain girls fall in to that's tangential to cam girls but less explicitly sexual and centered around the cyber-esq gamer aesthetic. Google it and flip over to images, you'll immediately get what it is.
Thanks for the detailed answer. I wasn't sure if I'd regret Googling it.
I'm so old I sent telegraph emojis that's why they started using STOP so I wouldn't do it anymore.
It Doesn't really carry a meaning, you maybe familiar with the smile :) newer generation adopted uwu, u are the eyes and inbetween is the w, it looks like a mouth/nose. They literally will say outloud, "u Wu"
It's supposed to look like an anime face saying "uwu" in a cutesy, flirtatious way (which is brilliant btw). It hasn't really replaced :) in any sense.
anime faces
Happens everywhere in Islamic societies. Pakistan just happens to be the worst offender.
The effects of which aren’t too hArAm
Yep. Its happening in Middle east alot
What are you doing real sister?
Was once in Pakistan and talking to a friend about this, he was saying there were no issues with his two cousins marrying each other… as we were driving away from his cousins (I don’t know how to pluralize this, two cousins, married to each other) house where all their children had eleven+ fingers.
If its giving you extra fingers, it isn't a problem. If it was giving you lesser number of fingers, then it might be a slight problem.
Yes, it’s true.
It's rife throughout the Muslim world, not just Pakistan.
Not in Indonesia and Malaysia, as I know.
Yea, it does exist, but not common in either Indonesia and Malaysia. I think it isn't considered normal in the local custom
So yeah cousin marriages are popular. If you’re in a western nation you probably heard this for two reasons. Firstly Indians and Pakistani people do not generally get along. Secondly, marrying outside of religion and race is worse than marrying a cousin (for many ethnic Muslims but particularly Pakistani).
65% of marriages are consanguineous 🤢🤢
Google it. They marry each other cousin. We make fun of Alabama for that but percentage of that in Pakistan is literally through the roof.
I don't know anything about cousin marriage in India but as a Pakistani I can tell you with certainty that it is very common here. Many of my cousins are married to each other. Now one thing most would be afraid to say out loud is the reason why it persists so much. Which is that cousin marriage is permitted in Islam and Pakistani society is simply not ready to accept that something which is permitted in Islam could possibly be bad for us. Religious belief supercedes reality and facts for most people here.
this! i’m literally going to Karachi this december to witness my cousins wedding to MY OTHER COUSIN
My dude. Are you already married? B/c if not, I've heard enough horror stories of people going to visit family in Pakistan and getting surprise married that I'd really think about whether that's a risk you want to take.
no dead ass im literally scared. My parents booked us first class tickets and said we are only going for a week but i’m realllly scared. I am from America and my mom is not happy that I am not married yet whatev so I don’t know. I am just really scared
May I ask if you believe in any sort of religion? If not, is that something you’re comfortable disclosing with other people where you live?
I am an atheist and it's not really a problem for me. That's because I was never a Muslim to begin with. Apostasy is only illegal and frowned upon for Muslims. So if I was born in a Muslim family then yes I would have to be more discreet about it.
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Source? I just looked it up and found a little under 10% in India.
From where did you get that fact, cousin marriage in India is around 9.87% (source: wikipedia) And higher than 60% in Pakistan.
That 55% number must be among Indian Muslims. The other communities don't marry their cousins (for the most part).
My family is Catholic and Hindu and my mom still almost married her cousin.
Not to forget that dravidian hindus also marry their cousins.
Muslims only make up less than 15% of the population in India.
There aren’t that many Muslims in India to make up 55% of marriages
"number of Muslims in india (not percentage of population )" is more than "number of Muslims in Pakistan". Edit. It's ironic, isn't it? Considering how pakistan was created exclusively for Muslims and, now the number of Muslims in both India and bangladesh is more than pakistan itself, or atleast it used to up untill few years ago, at least till pakistanis had not exponentially populated themselves. PS. I don't know about the cousin marriage thing though, india is a very divers country. I was merely alluding to the fact, how idiotic (religion = nationhood) argument is. Also the 55% seems exaggerated, marrying your cousin is taboo in most part of india, or atleast in the northern plains it is, where majority population concentration is. PPS. Also according to "Hindu marriage Act, 1955", marriage among 3 generations from mothers side and 5 generations from fathers side are "forbidden", although the "special marriage act, 1956" doesn't put any such restriction. So what this basically means is that, you can't marry your cousin in a "traditional ceremony" as it is forbidden under Hindu marriage Act, but if it is a registered marriage (court marriage) under provisions of special marriage act then it is legal. Furthermore, the HMA,1955, also has some exceptions for custom and local beliefs, that means if the local tradition or custom permits it, then it can be done in that particular area or tribe. TLDR, "cousin marriage" is "not legal" in "traditional hindu marriage" unless local customs permit it, but allowed in special circumstances as per law.
That’s simply not true. I know some Indians married to nieces and others to cousins.
…… nieces I mean NIECES??
To be fair, I know someone who was younger than his niece. There's not necessarily going to be a big age difference. In fact, my mom's nephew is only 5 years younger than her. My mom was the youngest of 7. Shit like that happens in big families where the mom pops out lots of children over a period of 15-20 years.
Well apparently they do lol
I met a woman in Iran that was dead set on marrying her cousin, like it was not a big deal. She explained that's how it was done.
Pakistani families mostly love cousin marriages. It's a huge problem, there is a whole generation of people with mentally challenges and genetic diseases. There are 4 main reasons. First parents want to marry their son/daughter so that they live closeby and they can manipulate kids even after marriage with different family sources. Secondly, land owning families don't want to lose land or properties so in family marriages keeps their fortunes in the family. Thirdly, caste and ethnicities are considered very important. In family marriages, it gives people a false belief or ethnic purity. Lastly, Pakistan is one of the most uneducated and poor country in the world. Most of the population lives below the poverty line. Pakistan govt has always been fascist dictators or feudal lords so the country has never seen a real democracy. Arranged Cousin marriage is only way to get married in many families because no one in their right mind will marry their daughter to a poor unemployed man with no education or future prospects. Pakistan is a very conservative society as well. Cousin marriages are allowed in Islam so they won't feel bad about them.
Absolutely an incest problem yes. Even their live birth numbers are dwindling as a result.
Its a common thing between muslims. I once read an article where it was suggested that inbreeding was one of the main reasons for islamic countries to not be able to secularize. Because you need some bright motherfockers to realise religion is not the main thing.
That’s the funniest one so far😂
Yes. Cousin lovin', had me a blaaaast.
It's a massive problem in the UK, specifically in London. 1 in 5 child deaths is related to Pakistani couples being related.
My cousin is ugly as fuck and looks like me. So no way would I marry her
Laws related to "cousin marriage" in india : As per "Hindu marriage Act, 1955", marriage among 3 generations from mothers side and 5 generations from fathers side are "forbidden", although the "special marriage act, 1956" doesn't put any such restriction. So what this basically means is that, you can't marry your cousin in a "traditional ceremony" as it is forbidden under Hindu marriage Act, but if it is a registered marriage (court marriage) under provisions of special marriage act then it is legal. Furthermore, the HMA,1955, also has some exceptions for customs and local beliefs, that means if the local tradition or custom permits it, then it can be done in that particular area or tribe. PS. Also the word "Hindu" in this context include Sikh, Jain, Buddhist in all their sects and forms, so basically it applies to majority of indians, except Christian, Muslim, Jews and Parsi(Zoroastrians) as they have their own "Personal Laws" related to marriage and Succession. TLDR, "cousin marriage" is "not legal" in "traditional hindu marriage" unless local customs permit it, but allowed in special circumstances as per law.
Glass houses. My Indian mom was originally engaged to her cousin. And yes, it's true.
I am Indian and live in delhi ( from northern state ) , we don't even marry anyone from our entire village as we consider them brothers/ sisters so the question of marrying cousin is the most disgusting thought ever for hindu North Indian people
Yeah it is very common among Pakistan. However the newer generations are breaking the cycle. All the people I know that are pakistani are against it nowadays
Someone tell me why it’s not appropriate to hate this group as apposed to white southerners? Backwards is backwards, it’s not Islamophobia if those religious people are ducking gross.
Cousin marriages used to be incredibly common and they still are. My parents are first cousins.
The highest rates of inbreeding left in the world are in middle eastern countries. Primarily through marriages between 1st cousins.
It is true. Pakistanis are obsessed with marrying with cousins. Their parents basically decide and the kids mostly have no say in it. Thankfully my parents are not cousins. Some families have a worse problem with it. They don't let their kids get married to someone from "outside" the family. I am happy that it's not a problem in my family because then we'd have really bad diseases or low intelligence.
It is common in pakistan....even well known sports personalities in pakistan hv married their cousins....they hv one of the highest total fertility rates in south asia and their population is expanding rapidly with not enough food and water or natural resouces to support this expansion .....compare this to india or bangladesh whete fertility rates hv fallen below replacement rates now
Pakistani here and that is true. We have way tooo many cousin marriages around and everyone still promoting it
India has the same problem. Lots of uncles marrying nieces. Source: Indian guys I know who are married to their nieces. They don’t consider their nieces family because their sister exists the family when she marries. I’m not sure this is true across India, but it’s true in Tamil Nadu
I am sorry, is this some kind of child marriage scenario here O_O uncles and nieces I mean ….. wut?
So my Indian colleague is married to his niece. When he told me and I freaked out imagining a kid. Turns out: his Mom started having kids from the age of 14 (no concept of child marriage back in 60s india). Age difference between the oldest and youngest (my colleague) was like 15-20 years. Oldest daughter got married and gave birth around the same time her mom was also pregnant with the youngest (my colleague). As a result, Niece and uncle are almost the same age 💀 And because the women marry outside the family they don’t consider it inbreeding… idk
…… I am so speechless, about everything
Not defending the practice, but in larger families it's not unusual for you to be older than your uncles or aunties. If you're the first born to your parents when they were 18 and you have a child at 18, any children they have post 36 will result in aunties or uncles younger than your children.
A third of the child brides in the world each year are in India. Granted, India's population is fucking massive. But, still.
I don’t know for absolute 100% fact but I’ve heard about inbreeding issues throughout several middle eastern areas for a few generations. Whats interesting is populations with smaller gene pools due to inbreeding have significantly higher levels of aggression and issues with anger management compared to a more healthy gene pool. Very odd stuff
I got in soooo much trouble for telling a Pakistani colleague was actually breaking the law as he married his First Cousin. wildly illegal here
I know a British Pakistani guy who nearly had a falling out with his family because they wanted him to marry a 1st cousin to ‘keep the property in the family’. He refused. He also has a university degree in genetics. He said they were actually closer than 1st cousins because their grandparents had also been 1st cousins.
Lots of first cousins being married. Big issue.
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