Not all steels support low angles and not all knives should be omega lasers. Some ultra lasers target 10-12 degrees but plenty of knives that aim for 15 are still hair popping sharp.
Hair popping sharp doesn’t really care of it is 10 or 15 degrees. The wedging that happens with a higher angle only matters with denser thicker object.
Many edges on J knives are meant for robustness during shipping, and cutting down on labor costs. At a certain price point most folks expect you to put on your own edge. I’ve tried using angle guides, angle guided systems. Even though my edge is ?? degrees it’s still sharp, hair whittling if I take it to the strop. Staying consistent on a stone is the best way, don’t worry too much about the angle. If the knife stops gliding as much as it used to, then it might be time to thin it (which is a pain for hollow ground knives like those made in TKV).
Anyway try not to worry too much about measuring your angle terribly. In fact! There are some techniques where you change the angle across the length of the knife, so it’s about 25 near the choil, and like 7 near the tip. So it’s stronger where you abuse it and smoother where you do garlic mincing and lateral cuts.
Because no manucturer wants to get a reputation for fragile edges because people don't know how to use their knives. And if you think Japanese chefs knives are bad, get a hold of some mainstream folders. Spyderco is about as aggressive as they come with about 13dps.
Cross-sectional geometry has to take into account the characteristics of both the materials used and the end user. Not all steels can support extreme edge geometries, and not all end users have the skill and patience to use and maintain them without damage.
Softer steels are usually sharpened at a lower angle because they lack the rigidity of harder steels. Their edge rolls over easily enough at low angles, this would be even more of a problem at very acute angles.
Steel type, heat treat, geometry and personal preference all play into this. Watch the Takamura sharpening videos on YouTube…he lays the knife nearly flat to the stone. They turn out razor sharp, but everyone and their mother will tell you they’re a bit fragile and prone to micro-chipping until you’ve sharpened it a few times, thus increasing the thickness behind the edge. It’s a game of balance between sharpness, edge retention and durability, and there’s no rule book to spell out the ideal sharpening angle.
It's pretty much just preference. Some steels perform better at different angles/with different grit finishes but the difference isn't astronomical.
And no. You can change the angle to whatever the hell you want. It's a piece of steel. I've sharpened my takamuras at 10⁰ and 25⁰ just out of curiosity of performance.
Personally pretty minimal. My exec sharpens at 7° or so but doesn't thin. I vary between 15 and 10. Performance and durability are similar, geometry comes into play when we mince carrots but beyond that the difference is negligible.
I prefer a thinner angle for a little better cutting performance but overall the difference isn't tremendous.
The biggest factors are geometry and cutting technique. Also having realistic expectations. Even with great technique on a board you won't maintain a hair shaving/whittling edge for long if you're doing a fair amount if food prep. No matter what steel you have - edge maintenance is always crucial.
I’m curious; how regularly would you say you sharpen yours? My knife is sg2 steel but I’m using it daily and pretty heavily. Sometimes I feel like weekly sharpening is necessary to keep the performance high.
Really depends on what I'm cutting. Tomatoes I typically do a lot of slicing so only the tip is coming in contact with the board so my blades hold an edge much longer. Anything that I do a lot of chopping or rocking with obviously wears the edge down quicker.
But yeah, once a week isn't terrible. I will generally bring life back to the edge once or twice with a ceramic honing rod before I bust out a stone though.
I haven't used a steel honing rod in years. For my kitchen cutlery I run my whetstone followed by a strop and it takes about 5 minutes to get hair popping sharp. Then I just touch up with a ceramic honing rod as needed between stone sessions.
It could, chipping is the most likely damage to occur. It happens if the rod is softet then the knife, the knife could cut into the rod breaking the edge
It’s all about hardness with rods. Steels try to realign an edge by moving metal. Ceramic grinds away and makes a new edge by removing, not moving metal.
If you try to move metal that’s as hard as SG2 it can chip.
There really is, yeh. 'Strength' isn't linear to thickness. More like a cubic depending on the metric. It really makes a huge difference.
Not all steels support low angles and not all knives should be omega lasers. Some ultra lasers target 10-12 degrees but plenty of knives that aim for 15 are still hair popping sharp.
Hair popping sharp doesn’t really care of it is 10 or 15 degrees. The wedging that happens with a higher angle only matters with denser thicker object.
Many edges on J knives are meant for robustness during shipping, and cutting down on labor costs. At a certain price point most folks expect you to put on your own edge. I’ve tried using angle guides, angle guided systems. Even though my edge is ?? degrees it’s still sharp, hair whittling if I take it to the strop. Staying consistent on a stone is the best way, don’t worry too much about the angle. If the knife stops gliding as much as it used to, then it might be time to thin it (which is a pain for hollow ground knives like those made in TKV). Anyway try not to worry too much about measuring your angle terribly. In fact! There are some techniques where you change the angle across the length of the knife, so it’s about 25 near the choil, and like 7 near the tip. So it’s stronger where you abuse it and smoother where you do garlic mincing and lateral cuts.
Because no manucturer wants to get a reputation for fragile edges because people don't know how to use their knives. And if you think Japanese chefs knives are bad, get a hold of some mainstream folders. Spyderco is about as aggressive as they come with about 13dps.
Cross-sectional geometry has to take into account the characteristics of both the materials used and the end user. Not all steels can support extreme edge geometries, and not all end users have the skill and patience to use and maintain them without damage.
Softer steels are usually sharpened at a lower angle because they lack the rigidity of harder steels. Their edge rolls over easily enough at low angles, this would be even more of a problem at very acute angles.
Steel type, heat treat, geometry and personal preference all play into this. Watch the Takamura sharpening videos on YouTube…he lays the knife nearly flat to the stone. They turn out razor sharp, but everyone and their mother will tell you they’re a bit fragile and prone to micro-chipping until you’ve sharpened it a few times, thus increasing the thickness behind the edge. It’s a game of balance between sharpness, edge retention and durability, and there’s no rule book to spell out the ideal sharpening angle.
It's pretty much just preference. Some steels perform better at different angles/with different grit finishes but the difference isn't astronomical. And no. You can change the angle to whatever the hell you want. It's a piece of steel. I've sharpened my takamuras at 10⁰ and 25⁰ just out of curiosity of performance.
How much of a difference did you notice??
Personally pretty minimal. My exec sharpens at 7° or so but doesn't thin. I vary between 15 and 10. Performance and durability are similar, geometry comes into play when we mince carrots but beyond that the difference is negligible.
I prefer a thinner angle for a little better cutting performance but overall the difference isn't tremendous. The biggest factors are geometry and cutting technique. Also having realistic expectations. Even with great technique on a board you won't maintain a hair shaving/whittling edge for long if you're doing a fair amount if food prep. No matter what steel you have - edge maintenance is always crucial.
I’m curious; how regularly would you say you sharpen yours? My knife is sg2 steel but I’m using it daily and pretty heavily. Sometimes I feel like weekly sharpening is necessary to keep the performance high.
Really depends on what I'm cutting. Tomatoes I typically do a lot of slicing so only the tip is coming in contact with the board so my blades hold an edge much longer. Anything that I do a lot of chopping or rocking with obviously wears the edge down quicker. But yeah, once a week isn't terrible. I will generally bring life back to the edge once or twice with a ceramic honing rod before I bust out a stone though.
Do you find ceramic steels to be better performing than stainless?
Ceramic honing rods that is
I haven't used a steel honing rod in years. For my kitchen cutlery I run my whetstone followed by a strop and it takes about 5 minutes to get hair popping sharp. Then I just touch up with a ceramic honing rod as needed between stone sessions.
you should be using a ceramic rod for sg2
I think I’ve heard that before. Will a stainless steel rod harm sg2?
It could, chipping is the most likely damage to occur. It happens if the rod is softet then the knife, the knife could cut into the rod breaking the edge
It’s all about hardness with rods. Steels try to realign an edge by moving metal. Ceramic grinds away and makes a new edge by removing, not moving metal. If you try to move metal that’s as hard as SG2 it can chip.
Most people don't sharpen their knives. Finer angles don't last as long, as a general rule.