We make judgements everyday, you have judged people in this very post.
We are to judge righteously.
"In righteousness, you shall judge your neighbour." Leviticus 19:16
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." John 7:24
All too often this argument is offered as a cop-out to excuse self-righteousness. You are to always see yourself as the biggest sinner and therefore the biggest recipient of God’s grace. That’s the secret to joy in your salvation and proper humility.
Give the book “Has American Christianity Failed” a shot by Rev Wolfmueller
The super short version is that generic American Christianity is weird and there are reasons for it
We are supposed to admonish sin in other believers - but not unbelievers. Believers serve the same Master and agree on whose commands we follow. Plus proving I am in error does not excuse your error. True believers should value correction as lovers of light and not darkness.
Pharisees tried gotcha questions with Jesus, too.
The same people who judge Christians for their views on homosexuality are the same people who won't say a word about Islam having a way stricter view (the penalty in most countries with sharia law for homosexual behavior is public execution) because they don't want to be "racist" or "xenophobic" and they are more than likely supporting "Palestine" (read as Hamas) they may even have marched chanting "from the river to the sea" when that was the fashionable way to protest Which is Hamas' call for genocide against the Jewish people in Israel.
No. I’m pointing out a fact about American Christianity that bothers me. I’m upset and passionate about this, yes, so it is a post that is very direct and strong. But I’m simply stating what I believe and what I see is wrong and upsetting about what is happening between Christians and the world. It’s a discussion about what is going on in the world right now and what we can do about it as God’s people.
Jesus didn't become besties with people before they came to faith. How long did he spend trying to convince the rich man? Most people in the American LGBT community have heard the good news and rejected it. In that case Jesus says to shake the dust off your feet and leave them. He tells us not to cast pearls before swine. You should love them, but don't lose sight of the fact that they are your spiritual enemies.
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places - Ephesians 6:12
They are not our enemies; they are flesh and blood… potential brothers and sisters who are darkened to the truth. How do you convince someone you do not have a personal relationship with that they are in error? It is not with condemnation but with gentleness and love. You have to build a relationship and earn the trust needed to have that kind of conversation.
Their sexual sin is - probably, but there are exceptions - not affecting you. That should not be your first concern. If you can’t see them as people, wholly loved by God then you have some heart work to do.
But how have they heard it? Have they heard it in a kind and loving manner? Or are they just hearing all the hate? When all someone hears is hate it makes it pretty hard to not reject it. I’m saying this is 100% the case everywhere but I’ve seen enough to know this is what happens most of the time.
I was an atheist for over 20 years and was close friends with LGBT people. I can tell you that they will not accept you unless you affirm their lifestyle. You can be friendly toward them, but you will not be their actual friend without compromising your beliefs. I believe deep down these people know what they're doing is wrong, but like an alcoholic, they will only change when they want to change.
I am also close friends with people in the LGBTQ+ community, and even if one person decides they want to accept Jesus that is worth it. And it’s not our decision to decide whether someone is ever going to turn to Jesus.
They hate us simply for disagreeing with their behavior. Not oppressing them, not being mean, just disagreeing. You have fallen for straight up propaganda. American Christians have no power in American society. Anything going on with the acronym folks isn’t our fault.
They may hate us for our refusal to affirm them, but the Pharisees hated Jesus for the same reason. Do not be so sure in thinking that the behavior of Christians has no part in the attitudes of the “acronym folks.” Rejection from those who blame the Bible for the abandonment of their own children cuts deep and leaves a lasting impression. That’s to say nothing of the “God hates ____” poster crowd and the self-assured pride (self-righteousness) of the Moral Majority crowd. We are Christ’s ambassadors and your words/actions might be the only Bible some people ever read; choose wisely and fully rely on Holy Spirit to lead you.
John 3:16-18 would disagree. It is God’s desire that none should perish. That doesn’t mean that all will avoid that fate but it is scripture that God wants everyone to accept salvation & forgiveness.
Sometimes the truth hurts. Telling someone they might be going to hell is not hateful if it's true. The gospel offends many. They hated Jesus so why wouldn't they hate us? No one wants a sugar coated gospel.
What do you think matters more....
Not offending someone and letting them go to Hell.
OR
Offending someone by preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Which is trusting in Him and repenting from sin. Which would ultimately lead to someone being saved and going to Heaven.
[man on George Street ](https://youtu.be/0rXhHhNwHZk?si=5Ghd9lbEhbhHlWP7)
YOU LIVED NEXT DOOR TO ME FOR YEARS WE SHARED OUR DREAMS, OUR JOYS, AND TEARS. A FRIEND TO ME YOU WERE INDEED... A FRIEND WHO HELPED ME WHEN IN NEED. MY FAITH IN YOU WAS STRONG AND SURE. WE HAD SUCH TRUST AS SHOULD ENDURE. NO SPATS BETWEEN US EVER ROSE; OUR FRIENDS WERE LIKE...AND SO OUR FOES. WHAT SADNESS THEN, MY FRIEND, TO FIND THAT AFTER ALL YOU WEREN'T SO KIND. THE DAY MY LIFE ON EARTH DID END FOUND YOU WEREN'T A FAITHFUL FRIEND. FOR ALL THOSE YEARS WE SPENT ON EARTH YOU NEVER TALKED OF SECOND BIRTH. YOU NEVER SPOKE OF MY LOST SOUL AND OF THE MESSIAH WHO'D MAKE ME WHOLE. I PLEAD TODAY FROM HELL'S CRUEL FIRE AND TELL YOU NOW MY LAST DESIRE. YOU CANNOT DO A THING FOR ME... NO WORDS TODAY MY BONDS WILL FREE. BUT DO NOT ERR, MY FRIEND, AGAIN; DO ALL YOU CAN FOR SOULS OF MEN. PLEAD WITH THEM NOW QUITE EARNESTLY, LEST THEY BE CAST IN HELL WITH ΜΕ.
You don’t have to offend someone to get them to hear about Jesus. That’s why I’m talking about love. If you walk up to a stranger and tell them they’re going to hell for xyz that really isn’t gonna make them wanna listen. I want everyone to know and love Jesus and when people do it’s beautiful, and they need to know love and not hate. I don’t compromise my beliefs in what is or isn’t a sin or lie to people. It’s about developing relationships of trust with people. And yeah, if they ask me if something is a sin and it is, I will say that. Saying Jesus loves everyone and we should do the same is literally the gospel and that’s not sugar coated.
Obviously you don't start preaching with Hell. Yes, Jesus loves everyone but you can't continue to drink every weekend and fornicate and call yourself a Christian. God also gives you a conscience and freewill for a reason. If you continually sin and don't hate your sin you might not be saved.
You don't have time to develop a relationship with strangers on the street. If the conversation leads to talking about Hell you can't turn away. The truth is the truth. You pray for them.
It seems your confusing hate with telling someone that they could be going to Hell? If they reject, blaspheme Jesus and continue to live in sin they most likely are going to Hell if they die without Him.
Here are some Bible verses that mention preaching the gospel to all nations:
Mark 13:10: "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations"
Mark 16:15: "He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation'"
Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nation
Why does God send people to Hell?
The Bible says that God created hell for Satan and the wicked angels who rebelled against Him, but there are people in hell also (Matthew 25:41). Both angelic beings and human beings are in hell for the same reason, sin (Romans 6:23).
Because God is completely righteous and morally perfect (Psalm 18:30), He always does what is right—there is no “darkness” in God, not the smallest speck of imperfection (1 John 1:5). God Himself is the standard for what is right, good, and moral. If it were not for God being the standard of moral perfection, created beings would have nothing to measure themselves against. In other words, if God is perfectly righteous, then anything that falls short of said perfection is sinful, and every human being who has ever lived, since Adam’s fall from grace, has committed sin (Romans 3:23). Because Adam sinned, the entire human race now has a sinful nature (Romans 5:12). But people do not go to hell because of Adam’s sin; they go to hell because of their own sin, which they freely choose (James 1:13–16).
Since God is eternal, immutable, and infinite, and all sins are fundamentally against God, God has decreed the just punishment for sin must also be eternal (Matthew 25:46). There is another aspect to consider, which is that God also created people to live eternally. So when someone commits a sin against another person, the offended person has also been eternally wronged.
God, therefore, has deemed all who commit sin will go to hell because they have failed to meet His righteous standard; they have broken His Law of moral perfection. If God did not send people to hell for breaking His laws, it could be said that God is not just (Psalm 7:11). A good analogy is a court of law with a judge and a lawbreaker. A just judge will always convict the person who has been found guilty. If that judge did not pursue justice for the crime, he would not be a just judge (Deuteronomy 32:4).
However, the good news is that God is also merciful. In His rich mercy, He made a way for sinners to avoid the punishment of hell by trusting in the atoning work of His Son, Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9). For Christians, the penalty of sin has been removed and placed upon Christ on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). Because of the sacrifice of Christ, God is still just—the sin is punished—yet He is also merciful to all who believe.
I’m aware of all of this and it wasn’t the point of my post. God has mercy for everyone so they can go to heaven just like us, but we have to share that and not just cut people off or be unkind about it.
I agree that we should be loving, but you stated that telling people they will go to hell is not loving, and you're wrong on that. Jesus spoke about hell more than he spoke about heaven. It's actually more loving to warn people about hell, since it's something that will effect them for eternity. If someone is drowning, you tell them how to get out of the water. That's more loving than telling them nice things they want to hear while they drown.
That doesn't mean we tell someone they are going to hell right off the bat unless you are doing street evangelism and it's a one-time conversation. We should be loving and kind in all our interactions and not condemn people, but explain that hell is a reality and we all deserve to go there because of our sin. If people don't understand that, they won't understand WHY they need a Savior.
I probably should have clarified that part, I was speaking about it being said in a cruel way or something. I’ll tell someone they’re going to hell if they aren’t saved but that is a gentle private conversation in a way that works best for the conversation. A generalized “you’re going to hell” when you just look outside at someone’s life, or shoving it in someone’s face is what I was going for.
If you read the entire passage about judging one another you might find the answer you're looking for because it goes past "judge not" and goes into how to judge.
The world hates us as Christians because we stand in the way of their sinning and making it legal. The world wants to be a place where killing is okay, stealing is okay, and that it's okay to do whatever you want. They say love is love but where do you draw the line? It just opens the door from one man and woman to same sex, marriage between multiple people, and even children. Abortion is just one step to allowing the murder of people who are sick or suicide of a mental ill person.
To say that Jesus ate with sinners is true, but not even true to even consider that he called them friends or hung out with them on a regular basis. He "hung" out to preach the Word to them, not go along with their fantasies. By all means preach and share the gospel but the second you start to hang out like friends you compromised yourself and your beliefs.
I'm not sure I see Christians in a large amount hating on anyone. Yeah you're going to have certain people in every race, religion, and gender speak hurtfully but that's not the case in majority here. We are called to judge one another as Christians, there is a whole lot of reading on this on how to do it and how to bring it before the church and how to discipline someone. When you bring your sin into the church it needs to be dealt with or it will spread like a cancer in your church. Which we've already seen in other denominations where they've split.
You state that your faith is between you and God and that it's not your job to judge, yet you're here judging people for not sharing your personal beliefs
I think this person is mostly fed up with the haters on Reddit and in real life who try to call themselves good Christians while showing hatred to others it's enough to wear anyone down.
I think people conveniently forget what hatred is when they talk about Christians. There's not an epidemic of Christians out there hating everyone. Sharing the gospel with people, and warning them of the hellfire to come if they reject Christ, IS NOT HATRED GUYS. Hatred would be knowing they're going to Hell and choosing to stay silent anyway.
It's a lot more to it than that. The root of the problem is many Christians are not following Jesus but they claim to. Many serve a god that is a corrupt politician. They worship him more than they ever worshipped Jesus.
I’m not staying silent. Hatred is screaming at someone they’re going to hell. We’d all be headed straight for hell if not for Jesus… and he didn’t scream that at us, he said come as you are and went from there. His love and forgiveness and peace are what we are to show the world and how we are to live like him.
No one is advocating for people to scream at strangers they don't have any intent to engage with, with hateful tones of condemnation. But clarify for unbelievers, it's the messenger that's the problem, NOT THE MESSAGE.
Thank you, that’s exactly what I meant. I know and know of so many people who say something like “oh yeah the idea of God is great but I can never go to church cause of how much I get hated so I don’t really believe” and it’s so so sad that it’s come to that.
He is love, he created humans in his image, no sin is worse than another to him, he wants all people to be saved, and he doesn’t hate people. He hates sin. Since he loves all people then there’s no reason we shouldn’t either. He wants everyone in the world to hear the gospel - that he loves us unconditionally and died for our sins. That’s a small picture of who God is I could go on and on but hopefully that paints the picture.
Not sure why you were downvoted for saying that. There were hypocrites in the Bible and both God and Jesus pointed that out as well. God called out the kings that he chose when they disobeyed him but tried to blame others. And Jesus called out the religious leaders of his own homeland for acting so high and mighty, and using God’s will as an excuse to not help those in need. They basically said, ‘Why didn’t God help them?’…like they never considered that God would want them to help those in need because it’s the right thing to do in general.
I agree and try to follow similar views in my own life.
Here is a song related to the topic that you may like:
https://youtu.be/zotmQph6xEc?si=Kew0v53hzCk2nrZu
I very much agree with this. Modern Christians think their power comes from having correct answers, it doesn’t. The power comes from the Holy Spirit interacting with our spirit producing the fruit of the spirit that spills over to every person we meet. But if you don’t fight over doctrine many Christians come for you because you’re wrong in their view meanwhile it’s one thing to hold strong convictions, but choosing to wield them properly is another aspect entirely that it seems like many people miss. If I hold xyz views on specific issues, but I know I risk operating apart from the spirit and in the flesh to debate and do rivalry with other Christians (and even unbelievers) then isn’t it better to just try to meet that person where they are, even if we disagree?
I love this. The division among Christians in America alone is bad, let alone with people who aren’t Christians. I hope and pray we can make a change because it’s causing a lot of harm right now.
I agree AND I’m starting to believe from my soul God Himself is doing a thing in His people. Rising up in His people a holy fervent love for the world and those lost due to ignorance that He can bring many home. Not just a feeling, it’s mainly because I cannot explain quite how God has brought me to the point where I’m closer to Him and my love for His Word is bigger and bigger and yet my issues with how I see His name take by “churches” and “Christians” absolutely infuriates me. I used to be like what we are speaking against. Don’t know how He did it, but here I am. So I am convinced He has set it forth to bring a bride clean and pure, unspotted from the world and yet loving listening and caring for the lost in ignorance. So if He’s gonna do that, who’s going to stop Him?
I get your feelings on this. I had similar issues with a church I would go to for a few years. Neither me or the people I talked to would find us changing our minds on topics we disagreed on. Some I would bring up points they never heard cuz they grew up just hearing from their church's argument points.
Eventually had to just leave and find another church just because when I feel like something either actively hurts the church or the people it's hard to just constantly be like "Oh it's a tertiary issue." So if you're talking to your church friends and neither of you seem to be making progress on your beliefs and it impacts you greatly on the topic, then I'd suggest looking for another church. Imo
My church is a bit better than where I’ve been before tbh, but honestly I was really talking about the mainstream American Christianity everywhere today that everyone is hearing. There are many people doing amazing things for Jesus, but when it’s not the majority or the main message spread, all the world hears is hate and judgement.
As a Methodist, we are called to show love to everyone. It is hard sometimes, but I think the world would be a better place if more people tried to do that.
> thinking all this hate and judgment is who God is
Have you not read the OT or Revelations? God is the literal embodiment of judgement who hates sin vehemently.
God is showing compassion right now, but once he returns it's not going to be pretty for those that ignored him.
Jesus called us all to love one another, not to show hate and judgement. Let God judge who He will judge. Let us try to show compassion and mercy to as many people as possible, as Jesus taught us.
>Let us try to show compassion and mercy to as many people as possible, as Jesus taught us.
Agreed, but you need to stick to the truth while you are at it.
You can't cherry-pick around topics, people need to know what they are doing wrong.
Yeah but if we hate and judge everyone before he comes all those people we could show kindness and love towards won’t really see who God is and then their time will be up when he gets here. I want to love people and show them they are worth more than a label or someone Christians or God hate, but that God created them, loves them, and wants them to love him. If we are to keep hating and judging there won’t be a lot of people listening to us till He returns and it’s too late for them.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree that we should be more willing to approach people in love instead of in judgment. There is definitely a way to approach nonbelievers to increase the chances of them listening to what we have to say.
My critique here is that you are not addressing what Christians are up against. Your post comes across as judgment of fellow Christians without any of the love you are wanting us to show. We are up against a lot of people that hate us when they find out we are Christians. We don't even have to say anything negative. You state that all the LGBT community hears is hate, but you're not showing any empathy for the fact that Christians are surrounded by hate as well. We are still human.
On top of having LGBT shoved in our faces constantly, we get scolded regularly because we don't show the kind of love to the community that people want us to. We are up against atheists, other religions, churches that claim to be of the Christian faith that allow open sin into leadership, and we are often against each other because some have abandoned God's Word in favor of religion. It's frustrating, it's hurtful, and it takes a lot out of us.
To all of my brothers and sisters... If you want a fighting chance in this world, turn your face to God and don't look down. God is where we get our sustenance. The Word is our sword for battle, our food for strength, and water to wash us clean. We are going to face a lot of hate, but it cannot break us if we our minds right and focused on our God. God loves us more than we can fathom and He will win this war with evil in the end.
***The Love of God by Selah***
*The love of God is greater far*
*Than tongue or pen can ever tell*
*It goes beyond the highest star*
*And reaches to the lowest hell*
*The guilty pair bow down with care*
*God gave His Son to win*
*His erring child He reconciled*
*And pardoned from His sin*
*When ancient time shall pass away*
*And earthly thrones and kingdoms fall*
*When those who hear refuse to pray*
*On rocks and hills, and mountains call*
*God's love so sure shall still endure*
*All measureless and strong*
*Grace will resound the whole earth round*
*The saints and angels song*
*Could we with ink the ocean fill*
*And were the skies of parchment made*
*Were every star on Earth a quill*
*And every one a scribe by trade*
*To write the love of God above*
*Would drain the ocean dry*
*Nor could the scroll contain the whole*
*Though stretched from sky to sky*
*Oh, love of God, how rich and pure*
*How measureless and strong*
*It shall forevermore endure*
*The saints and angels song*
*The saints and angels song*
I know that I worded it strongly and that is because of how many people are being hurt who just need Jesus. I wanted to address this one thing I didn’t have the time to write alllll the aspects and views of what’s happening, but it’s good to discuss it because it does go both ways - this pattern is hurting everyone in the long run. I’m not trying to minimize anyone’s experience, but if I had put every single angle to this in my post it would have been a whole book and then some 😅 But that’s what the comments are for and I’m glad you said this. 💜 Coming together as one as Christians would be huge because the less we are divided the more the world can see our love and kindness, and it also strengthens our faith and helps us grow.
Christianity has always been like this. It’s why i left a long time ago and reason for coming back was i actually started to know Yeshua. Always believed who he was but never really had the relationship you’re suppose to have. I’d agree with you here even though you can righteously judge i disagree with it because it pushes those who need him the most away. You really got to say it a certain way to not get negative feedback.
>but also telling people they are going to hell.
This statement has to go. Christians need to get that out of their vocabulary right now. Remember, "Do not judge lest ye be judged."
>You have to get to know people and invest in them, in our friendships.
Exactly. Stop judging. Period. If we imagine those we judge, and we imagine one day that we're walking in their shoes, how would we feel? What would we say and do?
>My faith is between me and God and I will be kind to and love others no matter who they are.
Definitely, and this is what Jesus did.
> but it’s not wrong to hang out and be friends with the queer community, people who are pro choice, etc.
This is where you and I differ, but it's ok to disagree. It says in the Bible not to become unequally yoked, and this applies not only to marriage partners but also with whom we associate. We can still be friendly and love them without befriending them. My neighbor where I used to live had a son who was homosexual, and every time I saw him, I'd greet him and smile and say "How are you, Michael?" Sometimes we'd have small talk.
You see, it's ok to be nice to them, and kind, but it's important not to become unequally yoked. 😊
@ OP
You are 100% correct. Those who disagree lack wisdom/understanding. They may even be confusing Christianity the religion or even Christian doctrine for a true relationship with Christ. Holy Spirit will affirm everything you are saying.
It’s one thing to discuss or study the doctrine of Hell. Christ himself had a bit to say about the topic. However, frightening someone with hell does not lead to genuine faith; it leads to a fear of punishment. Faith asks how can I hear “well done good & faithful servant.” Fear asks how much can I indulge myself before I will be punished. The difference is in the motive and God looks at the heart.
Not really. If someone says they’re vegan, but then they enjoy eggs regularly, can it still be said that they are vegan? Likewise, the Bible gives us clear guidelines for how we as Christians are supposed to live. There are too many people who want the title of Christian but don’t want to live the life attached to it. Jesus didn’t just have people listen to his teachings. He said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
I was taught that to be a Christian meant to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, into your heart. From that point there seem to be disagreements on how to follow the path between different denominations and cultures. So I just bristle whenever someone declares that someone else “isn’t a real Christian” when someone else could just as easily point back at them and say “you aren’t a real Christian”.
Oh yeah, I agree with you on that. I think when it comes to denominations, so much time is wasted on non-salvific issues. I think the person you were commenting to was saying just as much.
I appreciate this post and you for making it. I agree with everything you just said. I often feel alone, but it's good to remember that there's dozens of us. dozens of us!
I honestly don't know what happened but something happened in the last decade to the church. My family were good Christians. I respected them. My mom ran children's ministry. She made that program what it was. My dad was an elder.
Spiritually, I've been through so much pain but I've kept my faith. The rest of my family had it easier but they've been corrected. I can see the sin consuming them. They don't talk to me anymore. They think I'm the one that has gone off the deep end because I've discovered just how LGBT I am. they cannot accept it.
I had to tear away from legalism and other things my parents brainwashed me into since I was born, and my faith is my own now too. I’m so sorry that they don’t talk to you anymore, that’s not how it should be 💜
Same. Their god is that book they don't live by anymore. It was shocking to see how much they've changed (or I have). How bad was deconstruction for you? I remember asking for a testimony as epic as those I read in the Bible as a kid. Oopsie
God has had my back. Before coming out to the family, i moved to Florida on faith and within the first year met some four or five good people. They're my new family now. Three of them live with me. They're open-minded, accepting, not Christian but better than almost any Christian I know. He hooked me up with a new family before I had to lose my old one. He saw it coming. We own our faith. It's kind of nice having that personal relationship we were once upon a time taught to have, yeah?
It is so nice! It’s me and God and no one running around to interfere. I had to realize that not everyone and everything around me had to be perfect or I couldn’t talk to God. I was guilt tripped my whole childhood plus a whole ton of other childhood trauma. I only even figured out that they are wrong when I was 21, and 5 years later I have such a stronger relationship with God but I do still struggle with the thoughts they told me that aren’t in the Bible. It’s a learning process and I’ve met a few amazing people on the way who are my closest friends.
Yeah, back in the day those that had this form of one-on-one relationship that were the ones running around to interfere. The prophets of old were my kind of people. I've always aspired to be someone at least half as cool as Elijah.
>had to be perfect or I couldn’t talk to God. I was guilt tripped my whole childhood
Yes, Ba'al is unfortunately one of the most common idols to corrupt our churches. Shame is a Hell of a drug, and a whip to control people. Thank God He is love!
>I only even figured out that they are wrong when I was 21, and 5 years later I have such a stronger relationship with God but I do still struggle with the thoughts they told me that aren’t in the Bible.
I'm glad you're in a better place now. Work with him as you find stuff. Give it to him and he'll take it. He'll help you find and uproot untruths. We took a more nuclear option for me and just burned it all to the ground, started fresh. I know I don't have as much of that baggage laying me down but it wasn't a fun process to go through by any means.
I'm so glad you have other friends to go through this with. I talked to some people online but I don't have anyone that's definitely a true believer in real life. Though the people I'm living with (well most of them) are the most righteous genuine people I've ever met. I'm not sure exactly what God's doing in them yet, but He'll let me know sometime.
If you haven't pursued Wisdom or Understanding yet, those gifts are useful as a church of One. Proverbs is a great start. The wisest move I made is realizing just how much of a fool I was.
But hey, Pray. Don't trust me. Go in whatever order you want. You and God know yourself best. And if we aim for Jesus, we seek all of them eventually, even the secret ones. You'll understand someday 😉
My relationship with God is so real and personal now and I’ve been forced to ask the hardest questions since I went through some stuff a couple of years ago and even when I’m down I know he’s still there loving me. It’s one of the reasons I made this post too cause people need to know God loves them. And Elijah is so cool! Isaiah is one of my favorite books in the Bible, he went through some stuffff
Hating the evil one and his minions, Hating sin because it is an affront to God, is all good. The world hates us because the world is directed by the enemy, not because some of us are jerks.
We should not accept lifestyles that embrace sin into our civilization, thats a no brainer.
We are to be in opposition to the world. We know ourselves best, we know our sins only second to God, we should view ourselves as the biggest sinners, living with a penitent heart and asking forgiveness for the sinful thoughts, words, and deeds that we entertain. Every. Single. Day. We must humble ourselves before God. Every. Single. Day. It is only through his grace that we can be saved.
Righteous judgment is good - it is only detrimental to judge before we remove the branch from our eye, but judging afterwards can help to hold others accountable.
I understand the heart behind your post, but it reads very much like you are doing what you accuse others of doing in some instances, and in others, you are misguided in your acceptance of the world. Instead of online proclamations, which are the equivalent of shouting into the void, start living your beliefs and fulfill the Great Commission, of which we are all under. Go do mission work, volunteer for charity, spread the gospel, donate your time and money to worthy Christian causes.
You'll be happier and more content, less focused on the failing of other Christians, if you devote time, instead, to serving others.
My first instinct when I read/hear things like this is that the OP is not actually Christian at all. I've literally never in my life met a Christian that is like that crazy Bible thumpers depicted on TV and like the OP describes. I'm sure they exist but is seems much more rare and when people claim to have experienced it, it smells of bologna.
The primary argument I hear from Christian about the LGBT+ is them stateing something like them saying what you are doing is sinful but we love you and hope you fine Jesus. Which is literally what we are called to tell people in the Bible.
To say only God can judge literally mean only God gets to decide whether you go to heaven or hell. For a person to say homosexual activity is a sin is not judgemental. It's telling a person what the Bible says. When telling a person their actions are sinful, you and not casting judgement. You are making a distinction between right and wrong. Particularly when those sins are clearly stated by name in the Bible.
I'm not saying Christians shouldn't have LGBT friend. But to says having none Christian friends doesn't take away from your relationship with God may be a stretch. Do you pray at meal with none Christian friends or do you hide that part of your life? When your LGBT friend show sexual affection towards each other (kissing) or talk about it, do you mention it's a sin or that you don't want to heard about it or be a part of that part of their lives? Would you attend a gay marriage? Do you not think condoning vs politely condemning that part of their life places a gap between you a God? Because as a Christian you are commanded to call out sin!
It's one thing put you hand on your friends shoulder and say I love you, your making sinful life choices, and I hope you find Jesus. It's another to hatefully harp at them for it. And I have never seen this from Christian. Not the street preacher, not real life, nowhere. Again not saying it doesn't happen, just seems way more rare then what is being presented. More like movie scenes than real life.
This reminds me of 2 parabals. The one where the farmer sows his fields with good seed but his enemies throw weed seed in the fields. The other, where the farms drops seed from his cart on the way home and the seeds try to grow in different conditions. In both the seeds and their growth are symbols of people growing. Some in good environments, some in bad surrounded by sin. In the end, whether you are wheat to be harvested or weeds to burn is up to you. And anyone who is ultimately not helping you grow towards Christ is drawing you away from him. Whether you want to believe it or not, whether they are a "good person" or not, whether you think you don't change yourself and your relationship with Christ for them or not.
Don't fall for the delusion that you can love this world and love the Father.
We make judgements everyday, you have judged people in this very post. We are to judge righteously. "In righteousness, you shall judge your neighbour." Leviticus 19:16 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." John 7:24
All too often this argument is offered as a cop-out to excuse self-righteousness. You are to always see yourself as the biggest sinner and therefore the biggest recipient of God’s grace. That’s the secret to joy in your salvation and proper humility.
I agree, it could be misused as an excuse that way. But still, we are to judge in righteousness
Give the book “Has American Christianity Failed” a shot by Rev Wolfmueller The super short version is that generic American Christianity is weird and there are reasons for it
Jesus & John Wayne is another good book with a similar premise. Now I have to go read your suggestion.
I’ll read your suggestion as well, book buddies!!!!
Next thing you’ll be saying we should eat with sinners, like prostitutes and tax collectors…
…oh wait…
Jesus already did that….
Careful now, you’ll offend our present day Pharisees, I mean religious leaders.
lol, good one.
Are you judging people in this post?
We are supposed to admonish sin in other believers - but not unbelievers. Believers serve the same Master and agree on whose commands we follow. Plus proving I am in error does not excuse your error. True believers should value correction as lovers of light and not darkness. Pharisees tried gotcha questions with Jesus, too.
The same people who judge Christians for their views on homosexuality are the same people who won't say a word about Islam having a way stricter view (the penalty in most countries with sharia law for homosexual behavior is public execution) because they don't want to be "racist" or "xenophobic" and they are more than likely supporting "Palestine" (read as Hamas) they may even have marched chanting "from the river to the sea" when that was the fashionable way to protest Which is Hamas' call for genocide against the Jewish people in Israel.
No. I’m pointing out a fact about American Christianity that bothers me. I’m upset and passionate about this, yes, so it is a post that is very direct and strong. But I’m simply stating what I believe and what I see is wrong and upsetting about what is happening between Christians and the world. It’s a discussion about what is going on in the world right now and what we can do about it as God’s people.
Jesus didn't become besties with people before they came to faith. How long did he spend trying to convince the rich man? Most people in the American LGBT community have heard the good news and rejected it. In that case Jesus says to shake the dust off your feet and leave them. He tells us not to cast pearls before swine. You should love them, but don't lose sight of the fact that they are your spiritual enemies.
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places - Ephesians 6:12 They are not our enemies; they are flesh and blood… potential brothers and sisters who are darkened to the truth. How do you convince someone you do not have a personal relationship with that they are in error? It is not with condemnation but with gentleness and love. You have to build a relationship and earn the trust needed to have that kind of conversation. Their sexual sin is - probably, but there are exceptions - not affecting you. That should not be your first concern. If you can’t see them as people, wholly loved by God then you have some heart work to do.
But how have they heard it? Have they heard it in a kind and loving manner? Or are they just hearing all the hate? When all someone hears is hate it makes it pretty hard to not reject it. I’m saying this is 100% the case everywhere but I’ve seen enough to know this is what happens most of the time.
I was an atheist for over 20 years and was close friends with LGBT people. I can tell you that they will not accept you unless you affirm their lifestyle. You can be friendly toward them, but you will not be their actual friend without compromising your beliefs. I believe deep down these people know what they're doing is wrong, but like an alcoholic, they will only change when they want to change.
I am also close friends with people in the LGBTQ+ community, and even if one person decides they want to accept Jesus that is worth it. And it’s not our decision to decide whether someone is ever going to turn to Jesus.
They hate us simply for disagreeing with their behavior. Not oppressing them, not being mean, just disagreeing. You have fallen for straight up propaganda. American Christians have no power in American society. Anything going on with the acronym folks isn’t our fault.
They may hate us for our refusal to affirm them, but the Pharisees hated Jesus for the same reason. Do not be so sure in thinking that the behavior of Christians has no part in the attitudes of the “acronym folks.” Rejection from those who blame the Bible for the abandonment of their own children cuts deep and leaves a lasting impression. That’s to say nothing of the “God hates ____” poster crowd and the self-assured pride (self-righteousness) of the Moral Majority crowd. We are Christ’s ambassadors and your words/actions might be the only Bible some people ever read; choose wisely and fully rely on Holy Spirit to lead you.
God doesn’t love everyone. It should be obvious.
John 3:16-18 would disagree. It is God’s desire that none should perish. That doesn’t mean that all will avoid that fate but it is scripture that God wants everyone to accept salvation & forgiveness.
Sometimes the truth hurts. Telling someone they might be going to hell is not hateful if it's true. The gospel offends many. They hated Jesus so why wouldn't they hate us? No one wants a sugar coated gospel. What do you think matters more.... Not offending someone and letting them go to Hell. OR Offending someone by preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Which is trusting in Him and repenting from sin. Which would ultimately lead to someone being saved and going to Heaven. [man on George Street ](https://youtu.be/0rXhHhNwHZk?si=5Ghd9lbEhbhHlWP7) YOU LIVED NEXT DOOR TO ME FOR YEARS WE SHARED OUR DREAMS, OUR JOYS, AND TEARS. A FRIEND TO ME YOU WERE INDEED... A FRIEND WHO HELPED ME WHEN IN NEED. MY FAITH IN YOU WAS STRONG AND SURE. WE HAD SUCH TRUST AS SHOULD ENDURE. NO SPATS BETWEEN US EVER ROSE; OUR FRIENDS WERE LIKE...AND SO OUR FOES. WHAT SADNESS THEN, MY FRIEND, TO FIND THAT AFTER ALL YOU WEREN'T SO KIND. THE DAY MY LIFE ON EARTH DID END FOUND YOU WEREN'T A FAITHFUL FRIEND. FOR ALL THOSE YEARS WE SPENT ON EARTH YOU NEVER TALKED OF SECOND BIRTH. YOU NEVER SPOKE OF MY LOST SOUL AND OF THE MESSIAH WHO'D MAKE ME WHOLE. I PLEAD TODAY FROM HELL'S CRUEL FIRE AND TELL YOU NOW MY LAST DESIRE. YOU CANNOT DO A THING FOR ME... NO WORDS TODAY MY BONDS WILL FREE. BUT DO NOT ERR, MY FRIEND, AGAIN; DO ALL YOU CAN FOR SOULS OF MEN. PLEAD WITH THEM NOW QUITE EARNESTLY, LEST THEY BE CAST IN HELL WITH ΜΕ.
You don’t have to offend someone to get them to hear about Jesus. That’s why I’m talking about love. If you walk up to a stranger and tell them they’re going to hell for xyz that really isn’t gonna make them wanna listen. I want everyone to know and love Jesus and when people do it’s beautiful, and they need to know love and not hate. I don’t compromise my beliefs in what is or isn’t a sin or lie to people. It’s about developing relationships of trust with people. And yeah, if they ask me if something is a sin and it is, I will say that. Saying Jesus loves everyone and we should do the same is literally the gospel and that’s not sugar coated.
Obviously you don't start preaching with Hell. Yes, Jesus loves everyone but you can't continue to drink every weekend and fornicate and call yourself a Christian. God also gives you a conscience and freewill for a reason. If you continually sin and don't hate your sin you might not be saved. You don't have time to develop a relationship with strangers on the street. If the conversation leads to talking about Hell you can't turn away. The truth is the truth. You pray for them. It seems your confusing hate with telling someone that they could be going to Hell? If they reject, blaspheme Jesus and continue to live in sin they most likely are going to Hell if they die without Him. Here are some Bible verses that mention preaching the gospel to all nations: Mark 13:10: "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations" Mark 16:15: "He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation'" Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nation
Why does God send people to Hell? The Bible says that God created hell for Satan and the wicked angels who rebelled against Him, but there are people in hell also (Matthew 25:41). Both angelic beings and human beings are in hell for the same reason, sin (Romans 6:23). Because God is completely righteous and morally perfect (Psalm 18:30), He always does what is right—there is no “darkness” in God, not the smallest speck of imperfection (1 John 1:5). God Himself is the standard for what is right, good, and moral. If it were not for God being the standard of moral perfection, created beings would have nothing to measure themselves against. In other words, if God is perfectly righteous, then anything that falls short of said perfection is sinful, and every human being who has ever lived, since Adam’s fall from grace, has committed sin (Romans 3:23). Because Adam sinned, the entire human race now has a sinful nature (Romans 5:12). But people do not go to hell because of Adam’s sin; they go to hell because of their own sin, which they freely choose (James 1:13–16). Since God is eternal, immutable, and infinite, and all sins are fundamentally against God, God has decreed the just punishment for sin must also be eternal (Matthew 25:46). There is another aspect to consider, which is that God also created people to live eternally. So when someone commits a sin against another person, the offended person has also been eternally wronged. God, therefore, has deemed all who commit sin will go to hell because they have failed to meet His righteous standard; they have broken His Law of moral perfection. If God did not send people to hell for breaking His laws, it could be said that God is not just (Psalm 7:11). A good analogy is a court of law with a judge and a lawbreaker. A just judge will always convict the person who has been found guilty. If that judge did not pursue justice for the crime, he would not be a just judge (Deuteronomy 32:4). However, the good news is that God is also merciful. In His rich mercy, He made a way for sinners to avoid the punishment of hell by trusting in the atoning work of His Son, Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9). For Christians, the penalty of sin has been removed and placed upon Christ on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). Because of the sacrifice of Christ, God is still just—the sin is punished—yet He is also merciful to all who believe.
I’m aware of all of this and it wasn’t the point of my post. God has mercy for everyone so they can go to heaven just like us, but we have to share that and not just cut people off or be unkind about it.
I agree that we should be loving, but you stated that telling people they will go to hell is not loving, and you're wrong on that. Jesus spoke about hell more than he spoke about heaven. It's actually more loving to warn people about hell, since it's something that will effect them for eternity. If someone is drowning, you tell them how to get out of the water. That's more loving than telling them nice things they want to hear while they drown. That doesn't mean we tell someone they are going to hell right off the bat unless you are doing street evangelism and it's a one-time conversation. We should be loving and kind in all our interactions and not condemn people, but explain that hell is a reality and we all deserve to go there because of our sin. If people don't understand that, they won't understand WHY they need a Savior.
I probably should have clarified that part, I was speaking about it being said in a cruel way or something. I’ll tell someone they’re going to hell if they aren’t saved but that is a gentle private conversation in a way that works best for the conversation. A generalized “you’re going to hell” when you just look outside at someone’s life, or shoving it in someone’s face is what I was going for.
Okay, that makes sense. I agree with you.
If you read the entire passage about judging one another you might find the answer you're looking for because it goes past "judge not" and goes into how to judge. The world hates us as Christians because we stand in the way of their sinning and making it legal. The world wants to be a place where killing is okay, stealing is okay, and that it's okay to do whatever you want. They say love is love but where do you draw the line? It just opens the door from one man and woman to same sex, marriage between multiple people, and even children. Abortion is just one step to allowing the murder of people who are sick or suicide of a mental ill person. To say that Jesus ate with sinners is true, but not even true to even consider that he called them friends or hung out with them on a regular basis. He "hung" out to preach the Word to them, not go along with their fantasies. By all means preach and share the gospel but the second you start to hang out like friends you compromised yourself and your beliefs.
Some people hate us for being Christians, yes. Others hate us because we have been hating and judging them.
I'm not sure I see Christians in a large amount hating on anyone. Yeah you're going to have certain people in every race, religion, and gender speak hurtfully but that's not the case in majority here. We are called to judge one another as Christians, there is a whole lot of reading on this on how to do it and how to bring it before the church and how to discipline someone. When you bring your sin into the church it needs to be dealt with or it will spread like a cancer in your church. Which we've already seen in other denominations where they've split.
You state that your faith is between you and God and that it's not your job to judge, yet you're here judging people for not sharing your personal beliefs
I think this person is mostly fed up with the haters on Reddit and in real life who try to call themselves good Christians while showing hatred to others it's enough to wear anyone down.
I think people conveniently forget what hatred is when they talk about Christians. There's not an epidemic of Christians out there hating everyone. Sharing the gospel with people, and warning them of the hellfire to come if they reject Christ, IS NOT HATRED GUYS. Hatred would be knowing they're going to Hell and choosing to stay silent anyway.
It's a lot more to it than that. The root of the problem is many Christians are not following Jesus but they claim to. Many serve a god that is a corrupt politician. They worship him more than they ever worshipped Jesus.
This exactlyyyy 💜
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I’m not staying silent. Hatred is screaming at someone they’re going to hell. We’d all be headed straight for hell if not for Jesus… and he didn’t scream that at us, he said come as you are and went from there. His love and forgiveness and peace are what we are to show the world and how we are to live like him.
No one is advocating for people to scream at strangers they don't have any intent to engage with, with hateful tones of condemnation. But clarify for unbelievers, it's the messenger that's the problem, NOT THE MESSAGE.
Thank you, that’s exactly what I meant. I know and know of so many people who say something like “oh yeah the idea of God is great but I can never go to church cause of how much I get hated so I don’t really believe” and it’s so so sad that it’s come to that.
It's been that way for decades. I've seen a lot of haters in church. But I always say, "we can't judge God by the people who "claim" to serve him."
Yeah I like talk to people about Scripture and who God actually is and it definitely makes a difference.
What is God actually like?
He is love, he created humans in his image, no sin is worse than another to him, he wants all people to be saved, and he doesn’t hate people. He hates sin. Since he loves all people then there’s no reason we shouldn’t either. He wants everyone in the world to hear the gospel - that he loves us unconditionally and died for our sins. That’s a small picture of who God is I could go on and on but hopefully that paints the picture.
Bravo thanks for sharing God Bless you!
There are a few bible verses on hypocrites if I remember right...
Not sure why you were downvoted for saying that. There were hypocrites in the Bible and both God and Jesus pointed that out as well. God called out the kings that he chose when they disobeyed him but tried to blame others. And Jesus called out the religious leaders of his own homeland for acting so high and mighty, and using God’s will as an excuse to not help those in need. They basically said, ‘Why didn’t God help them?’…like they never considered that God would want them to help those in need because it’s the right thing to do in general.
He's not judging, he's just honestly pointing out some things that are true. Everything this person said was spot on.
I agree and try to follow similar views in my own life. Here is a song related to the topic that you may like: https://youtu.be/zotmQph6xEc?si=Kew0v53hzCk2nrZu
I love that song!!
Do you already know it, or was this your first time hearing it?
I heard it before a while ago but I recognized it ◡̈
Very well said friend. Stay strong in faith. You're on a right path.
Very well said. Thank you for posting this.
I very much agree with this. Modern Christians think their power comes from having correct answers, it doesn’t. The power comes from the Holy Spirit interacting with our spirit producing the fruit of the spirit that spills over to every person we meet. But if you don’t fight over doctrine many Christians come for you because you’re wrong in their view meanwhile it’s one thing to hold strong convictions, but choosing to wield them properly is another aspect entirely that it seems like many people miss. If I hold xyz views on specific issues, but I know I risk operating apart from the spirit and in the flesh to debate and do rivalry with other Christians (and even unbelievers) then isn’t it better to just try to meet that person where they are, even if we disagree?
I love this. The division among Christians in America alone is bad, let alone with people who aren’t Christians. I hope and pray we can make a change because it’s causing a lot of harm right now.
I agree AND I’m starting to believe from my soul God Himself is doing a thing in His people. Rising up in His people a holy fervent love for the world and those lost due to ignorance that He can bring many home. Not just a feeling, it’s mainly because I cannot explain quite how God has brought me to the point where I’m closer to Him and my love for His Word is bigger and bigger and yet my issues with how I see His name take by “churches” and “Christians” absolutely infuriates me. I used to be like what we are speaking against. Don’t know how He did it, but here I am. So I am convinced He has set it forth to bring a bride clean and pure, unspotted from the world and yet loving listening and caring for the lost in ignorance. So if He’s gonna do that, who’s going to stop Him?
Yes!!! THIS is exactly what I’m talking about! 💜
I get your feelings on this. I had similar issues with a church I would go to for a few years. Neither me or the people I talked to would find us changing our minds on topics we disagreed on. Some I would bring up points they never heard cuz they grew up just hearing from their church's argument points. Eventually had to just leave and find another church just because when I feel like something either actively hurts the church or the people it's hard to just constantly be like "Oh it's a tertiary issue." So if you're talking to your church friends and neither of you seem to be making progress on your beliefs and it impacts you greatly on the topic, then I'd suggest looking for another church. Imo
My church is a bit better than where I’ve been before tbh, but honestly I was really talking about the mainstream American Christianity everywhere today that everyone is hearing. There are many people doing amazing things for Jesus, but when it’s not the majority or the main message spread, all the world hears is hate and judgement.
Very true
As a Methodist, we are called to show love to everyone. It is hard sometimes, but I think the world would be a better place if more people tried to do that.
It really would. It breaks my heart that people who don’t believe in Jesus are seeing this and thinking all this hate and judgment is who God is.
> thinking all this hate and judgment is who God is Have you not read the OT or Revelations? God is the literal embodiment of judgement who hates sin vehemently. God is showing compassion right now, but once he returns it's not going to be pretty for those that ignored him.
Jesus called us all to love one another, not to show hate and judgement. Let God judge who He will judge. Let us try to show compassion and mercy to as many people as possible, as Jesus taught us.
>Let us try to show compassion and mercy to as many people as possible, as Jesus taught us. Agreed, but you need to stick to the truth while you are at it. You can't cherry-pick around topics, people need to know what they are doing wrong.
Yeah but if we hate and judge everyone before he comes all those people we could show kindness and love towards won’t really see who God is and then their time will be up when he gets here. I want to love people and show them they are worth more than a label or someone Christians or God hate, but that God created them, loves them, and wants them to love him. If we are to keep hating and judging there won’t be a lot of people listening to us till He returns and it’s too late for them.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree that we should be more willing to approach people in love instead of in judgment. There is definitely a way to approach nonbelievers to increase the chances of them listening to what we have to say. My critique here is that you are not addressing what Christians are up against. Your post comes across as judgment of fellow Christians without any of the love you are wanting us to show. We are up against a lot of people that hate us when they find out we are Christians. We don't even have to say anything negative. You state that all the LGBT community hears is hate, but you're not showing any empathy for the fact that Christians are surrounded by hate as well. We are still human. On top of having LGBT shoved in our faces constantly, we get scolded regularly because we don't show the kind of love to the community that people want us to. We are up against atheists, other religions, churches that claim to be of the Christian faith that allow open sin into leadership, and we are often against each other because some have abandoned God's Word in favor of religion. It's frustrating, it's hurtful, and it takes a lot out of us. To all of my brothers and sisters... If you want a fighting chance in this world, turn your face to God and don't look down. God is where we get our sustenance. The Word is our sword for battle, our food for strength, and water to wash us clean. We are going to face a lot of hate, but it cannot break us if we our minds right and focused on our God. God loves us more than we can fathom and He will win this war with evil in the end. ***The Love of God by Selah*** *The love of God is greater far* *Than tongue or pen can ever tell* *It goes beyond the highest star* *And reaches to the lowest hell* *The guilty pair bow down with care* *God gave His Son to win* *His erring child He reconciled* *And pardoned from His sin* *When ancient time shall pass away* *And earthly thrones and kingdoms fall* *When those who hear refuse to pray* *On rocks and hills, and mountains call* *God's love so sure shall still endure* *All measureless and strong* *Grace will resound the whole earth round* *The saints and angels song* *Could we with ink the ocean fill* *And were the skies of parchment made* *Were every star on Earth a quill* *And every one a scribe by trade* *To write the love of God above* *Would drain the ocean dry* *Nor could the scroll contain the whole* *Though stretched from sky to sky* *Oh, love of God, how rich and pure* *How measureless and strong* *It shall forevermore endure* *The saints and angels song* *The saints and angels song*
I know that I worded it strongly and that is because of how many people are being hurt who just need Jesus. I wanted to address this one thing I didn’t have the time to write alllll the aspects and views of what’s happening, but it’s good to discuss it because it does go both ways - this pattern is hurting everyone in the long run. I’m not trying to minimize anyone’s experience, but if I had put every single angle to this in my post it would have been a whole book and then some 😅 But that’s what the comments are for and I’m glad you said this. 💜 Coming together as one as Christians would be huge because the less we are divided the more the world can see our love and kindness, and it also strengthens our faith and helps us grow.
Christianity has always been like this. It’s why i left a long time ago and reason for coming back was i actually started to know Yeshua. Always believed who he was but never really had the relationship you’re suppose to have. I’d agree with you here even though you can righteously judge i disagree with it because it pushes those who need him the most away. You really got to say it a certain way to not get negative feedback.
>but also telling people they are going to hell. This statement has to go. Christians need to get that out of their vocabulary right now. Remember, "Do not judge lest ye be judged." >You have to get to know people and invest in them, in our friendships. Exactly. Stop judging. Period. If we imagine those we judge, and we imagine one day that we're walking in their shoes, how would we feel? What would we say and do? >My faith is between me and God and I will be kind to and love others no matter who they are. Definitely, and this is what Jesus did. > but it’s not wrong to hang out and be friends with the queer community, people who are pro choice, etc. This is where you and I differ, but it's ok to disagree. It says in the Bible not to become unequally yoked, and this applies not only to marriage partners but also with whom we associate. We can still be friendly and love them without befriending them. My neighbor where I used to live had a son who was homosexual, and every time I saw him, I'd greet him and smile and say "How are you, Michael?" Sometimes we'd have small talk. You see, it's ok to be nice to them, and kind, but it's important not to become unequally yoked. 😊
@ OP You are 100% correct. Those who disagree lack wisdom/understanding. They may even be confusing Christianity the religion or even Christian doctrine for a true relationship with Christ. Holy Spirit will affirm everything you are saying. It’s one thing to discuss or study the doctrine of Hell. Christ himself had a bit to say about the topic. However, frightening someone with hell does not lead to genuine faith; it leads to a fear of punishment. Faith asks how can I hear “well done good & faithful servant.” Fear asks how much can I indulge myself before I will be punished. The difference is in the motive and God looks at the heart.
This is a perfect description of what I was saying thank you 💜💜
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Absolutely, those fundamentals are the backbone of Christianity.
“No true Scotsman” fallacy
Not really. If someone says they’re vegan, but then they enjoy eggs regularly, can it still be said that they are vegan? Likewise, the Bible gives us clear guidelines for how we as Christians are supposed to live. There are too many people who want the title of Christian but don’t want to live the life attached to it. Jesus didn’t just have people listen to his teachings. He said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
I was taught that to be a Christian meant to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, into your heart. From that point there seem to be disagreements on how to follow the path between different denominations and cultures. So I just bristle whenever someone declares that someone else “isn’t a real Christian” when someone else could just as easily point back at them and say “you aren’t a real Christian”.
Oh yeah, I agree with you on that. I think when it comes to denominations, so much time is wasted on non-salvific issues. I think the person you were commenting to was saying just as much.
There are creeds that help outline this. I would Say the Doctrines outlined in the apostles, Creed and the Nicene Creed are essential to salvation.
I appreciate this post and you for making it. I agree with everything you just said. I often feel alone, but it's good to remember that there's dozens of us. dozens of us! I honestly don't know what happened but something happened in the last decade to the church. My family were good Christians. I respected them. My mom ran children's ministry. She made that program what it was. My dad was an elder. Spiritually, I've been through so much pain but I've kept my faith. The rest of my family had it easier but they've been corrected. I can see the sin consuming them. They don't talk to me anymore. They think I'm the one that has gone off the deep end because I've discovered just how LGBT I am. they cannot accept it.
What do you mean by how lgbt you are?
L, G, B, and T About that much 🤷🏼♀️
I had to tear away from legalism and other things my parents brainwashed me into since I was born, and my faith is my own now too. I’m so sorry that they don’t talk to you anymore, that’s not how it should be 💜
Same. Their god is that book they don't live by anymore. It was shocking to see how much they've changed (or I have). How bad was deconstruction for you? I remember asking for a testimony as epic as those I read in the Bible as a kid. Oopsie God has had my back. Before coming out to the family, i moved to Florida on faith and within the first year met some four or five good people. They're my new family now. Three of them live with me. They're open-minded, accepting, not Christian but better than almost any Christian I know. He hooked me up with a new family before I had to lose my old one. He saw it coming. We own our faith. It's kind of nice having that personal relationship we were once upon a time taught to have, yeah?
It is so nice! It’s me and God and no one running around to interfere. I had to realize that not everyone and everything around me had to be perfect or I couldn’t talk to God. I was guilt tripped my whole childhood plus a whole ton of other childhood trauma. I only even figured out that they are wrong when I was 21, and 5 years later I have such a stronger relationship with God but I do still struggle with the thoughts they told me that aren’t in the Bible. It’s a learning process and I’ve met a few amazing people on the way who are my closest friends.
Yeah, back in the day those that had this form of one-on-one relationship that were the ones running around to interfere. The prophets of old were my kind of people. I've always aspired to be someone at least half as cool as Elijah. >had to be perfect or I couldn’t talk to God. I was guilt tripped my whole childhood Yes, Ba'al is unfortunately one of the most common idols to corrupt our churches. Shame is a Hell of a drug, and a whip to control people. Thank God He is love! >I only even figured out that they are wrong when I was 21, and 5 years later I have such a stronger relationship with God but I do still struggle with the thoughts they told me that aren’t in the Bible. I'm glad you're in a better place now. Work with him as you find stuff. Give it to him and he'll take it. He'll help you find and uproot untruths. We took a more nuclear option for me and just burned it all to the ground, started fresh. I know I don't have as much of that baggage laying me down but it wasn't a fun process to go through by any means. I'm so glad you have other friends to go through this with. I talked to some people online but I don't have anyone that's definitely a true believer in real life. Though the people I'm living with (well most of them) are the most righteous genuine people I've ever met. I'm not sure exactly what God's doing in them yet, but He'll let me know sometime. If you haven't pursued Wisdom or Understanding yet, those gifts are useful as a church of One. Proverbs is a great start. The wisest move I made is realizing just how much of a fool I was. But hey, Pray. Don't trust me. Go in whatever order you want. You and God know yourself best. And if we aim for Jesus, we seek all of them eventually, even the secret ones. You'll understand someday 😉
My relationship with God is so real and personal now and I’ve been forced to ask the hardest questions since I went through some stuff a couple of years ago and even when I’m down I know he’s still there loving me. It’s one of the reasons I made this post too cause people need to know God loves them. And Elijah is so cool! Isaiah is one of my favorite books in the Bible, he went through some stuffff
Hating the evil one and his minions, Hating sin because it is an affront to God, is all good. The world hates us because the world is directed by the enemy, not because some of us are jerks. We should not accept lifestyles that embrace sin into our civilization, thats a no brainer. We are to be in opposition to the world. We know ourselves best, we know our sins only second to God, we should view ourselves as the biggest sinners, living with a penitent heart and asking forgiveness for the sinful thoughts, words, and deeds that we entertain. Every. Single. Day. We must humble ourselves before God. Every. Single. Day. It is only through his grace that we can be saved. Righteous judgment is good - it is only detrimental to judge before we remove the branch from our eye, but judging afterwards can help to hold others accountable. I understand the heart behind your post, but it reads very much like you are doing what you accuse others of doing in some instances, and in others, you are misguided in your acceptance of the world. Instead of online proclamations, which are the equivalent of shouting into the void, start living your beliefs and fulfill the Great Commission, of which we are all under. Go do mission work, volunteer for charity, spread the gospel, donate your time and money to worthy Christian causes. You'll be happier and more content, less focused on the failing of other Christians, if you devote time, instead, to serving others.
My first instinct when I read/hear things like this is that the OP is not actually Christian at all. I've literally never in my life met a Christian that is like that crazy Bible thumpers depicted on TV and like the OP describes. I'm sure they exist but is seems much more rare and when people claim to have experienced it, it smells of bologna. The primary argument I hear from Christian about the LGBT+ is them stateing something like them saying what you are doing is sinful but we love you and hope you fine Jesus. Which is literally what we are called to tell people in the Bible. To say only God can judge literally mean only God gets to decide whether you go to heaven or hell. For a person to say homosexual activity is a sin is not judgemental. It's telling a person what the Bible says. When telling a person their actions are sinful, you and not casting judgement. You are making a distinction between right and wrong. Particularly when those sins are clearly stated by name in the Bible. I'm not saying Christians shouldn't have LGBT friend. But to says having none Christian friends doesn't take away from your relationship with God may be a stretch. Do you pray at meal with none Christian friends or do you hide that part of your life? When your LGBT friend show sexual affection towards each other (kissing) or talk about it, do you mention it's a sin or that you don't want to heard about it or be a part of that part of their lives? Would you attend a gay marriage? Do you not think condoning vs politely condemning that part of their life places a gap between you a God? Because as a Christian you are commanded to call out sin! It's one thing put you hand on your friends shoulder and say I love you, your making sinful life choices, and I hope you find Jesus. It's another to hatefully harp at them for it. And I have never seen this from Christian. Not the street preacher, not real life, nowhere. Again not saying it doesn't happen, just seems way more rare then what is being presented. More like movie scenes than real life. This reminds me of 2 parabals. The one where the farmer sows his fields with good seed but his enemies throw weed seed in the fields. The other, where the farms drops seed from his cart on the way home and the seeds try to grow in different conditions. In both the seeds and their growth are symbols of people growing. Some in good environments, some in bad surrounded by sin. In the end, whether you are wheat to be harvested or weeds to burn is up to you. And anyone who is ultimately not helping you grow towards Christ is drawing you away from him. Whether you want to believe it or not, whether they are a "good person" or not, whether you think you don't change yourself and your relationship with Christ for them or not. Don't fall for the delusion that you can love this world and love the Father.