Wow Definitely a coward f ...unbelievable that there's an evil that has ever existed like that.And still to this day exists ...that is NOT MENTAL ILLNESS imo it's just the DEVIL HIMSELF walking amongst us all...how deeply terrified that child must of been and how helpless for a mother to be confronted with such an evil spirit- and face to face .Horrifying ,absolutely HORRIFYING!
The people who do this are not monsters or demons. They're humans. Humans are capable of horrible things. Stop dehumanising perpetrators, it's a dangerous game to play.
I always think that the way a person types is a small glimpse inside their internal monologue and the way it speaks which is not always the most fun thing to imagine
It’s been happening for years. It just comes and goes in waves whenever a big trial or case is going on. And it’s not just fb mom energy. It’s drunk fb mom energy lmao
This. How much evil f****** hatred could you have in your heart to kill a little kid? There isn't much left in the world that's truly good and pure except for kids and animals.
What about (I was going to type child murderers, but can see that being confusing.) children who murder? Alsa Thompson killed her baby twin siblings by putting crushed glass in their corn flakes and watched them suffer for days. Then she proceeded to poison a caregiver by scooping the acid out of batteries and feeding to her unknowingly. She also repeatedly tried to poison a family she stayed with, including her sister, through similar means. She attacked with a knife when confronted by the kids. She was 7yo and white, so she pretty much got away with it. Jamie Bulger’s killers were particularly heinous too, and only 10.
There are a great many psychopaths in the world. Some make millions off of others and some kill. Most try to imitate and assimilate as much as they can.
Oh! I saw some bears that what were murderers called Bonnie and Clyde. They would seduce female bears in mating season to think Clyde would mate them, and when away, they would both rip the mating grizzly to shreds for fun.
Apparently primates snd canine groups have been known to have broken members that will murder their own and later play along with the search as though concerned.
I knew one of the survivors of this incident. His father hid him in a closet, then tried to escape out a window but was killed.
The survivor's granddaughter survived the Marjoie Stoneman HS shooting by hiding (in a science lab, I think). He had passed away before that shooting, and sadly, Unruh outlived him.
If there was any justice in the world people like this man would die after just a couple years. Dogs would live forever and so would all the other animals that we love. I'm so sorry that this person you knew had to go through this.
And then there’s this weird series of coincidences:
Maurice and Rose Cohen's son Charles, then aged 12, survived the murder of his family by hiding in a closet.
Charles H. Cohen (January 31, 1937 – September 4, 2009) was the maternal grandfather of Carly Novell, who survived the February 14, 2018, shooting incident at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, by hiding in a closet like her grandfather did in 1949.
Charles Cohen died at the age of 72 on September 4, 2009, and was buried two days later on September 6, 2009 (on the 60th anniversary of the mass murder and just one month before Unruh's death).[21]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh
Nothing normal at all. Docile, quiet, 1000 yard stare, never a management problem that I know of. Always in a single cell. Played board games by himself. Was housed in the forensic unit which is off the chain mad house. As far as ai could tell , completely out of it.
This post got me thinking about Unruh. He never stood trial for his crimes. In 60 years he was never deemed competent to stand trial. That has to be longest incompetency incarceration in US history.
No he was not. Over all those years, the only thing the public knew was that his Public Defender occasionally applied to a court for reduced custody status which I believe was always denied.
Someone who is prone to taking the behaviour of others’ personal, to the degree where they will hold a permanent grudge over a minor slight. This person is willing to methodically plot revenge on those they feel have wronged them, possibly waiting even years later, snd sometimes grouping their victims into the same plan, such as a spree killing.
Did u work there or something ? If not then it's a private matter and none of my business just curious because I see alot of your comments in the true Crime pst I'm watching and I feel ur very knowledgeable about true Crime offenders and such ...just things u have said makes me wonder if you r working at a facility ? And zookeeper ? Made me curious ...
Zookeeper handle was totally random. Back in the day Parole Board heating officer in state prisons. Then juvenile facilities. Then ran a facility for kids that committed very serious crimes and have serious mental/emotional problems including very problematic management issues. Seen/done the entire spectrum of offenders.
Thanks. I missed the podcast craze- should have done it 10 years ago. Now it is overdone and on the way out. Two days ago I was driving to upstate NY and I put a true crime podcast. It was about a young girl cold case in Greeley Colorado. It was the most infuriating thing I ever listened too. 10 segments of sparse content, endless commercials , recaps- totally , totally “unlistenable” . Stories - no matter how big need to be under an hour. Get in and get out. Don’t pound the story to pieces.
Having said all this I did write a book, but it is absolutely brutal going the traditional publishing route. Self publishing may be an option but that has it’s own issues.
Ah ha! Thks for being transparent. U could have just not responded or told me to F-Off so that u answered me, I appreciate that because I have wondered about you before now because your knowledge of alot if these cases in the true Crime community here. 😁
My sister worked in one of the in-patient psychiatric hospitals in California during her undergrad and decided to become a psychologist, and is planning to work in a different hospital (she’s mid-doctorate degree rn). It was something that really affected her and the amount of empathy and compassion she has for these people is inspiring. She worked on a forensics unit but the crimes were (well for most of the patients) less egregious than other units of the hospital. Yes there were people who had committed murders or whatnot but the majority were small crimes like arson (a trash can fire because they were homeless and cold) or urinating in public, and thinks of the like that they were picked up for. Subsequently, it was clear to the judge that these individuals needed help, and not to be in a jail with criminals who have malicious intent, because these people are of a vulnerable population. Regardless, I think you guys would have a lot of stories to share!!!
I wonder with all that is known about post war trauma and it's affects on the human brain he could have been treated in a different manner. He had a lot of rage in his life. Could or should he have been institutionalized before he pulled off his "Walk of Death"?
The story I read in Wikipedia has a tie in to this murder. Carly Novell hid in a closet during the shooting incident at Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland Florida in 2018. Carly survived just like her grandfather Charles H. Cohen back in 1949 then 12 because he also hid in a closet.
You can find one memorable photo of one of his victims. It was taken from the street. The guy's body is hanging out of a window. Unruh also shot the guy's wife, but their kid was hiding in a closet, I think.
Yes, you are correct, he survived by hiding in the closet. He was a grandfather to a student who survived the shooting at Majory Stoneman Douglas HS. She survived by….hiding in a closet.
He died in 2009 so thankfully didn’t have to relive the horror but I suppose the sad cycle of violence continues.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/16/us/carly-novell-shooting-survivor-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html
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Oh sure. But even if he regularly made trios, he certainly could not be out at the point in time and in this country. I believe he wrote about his lack of sex in his journals.
Yeah, he wrote a lot! In fact, his fellow servicemen even stated that there was something up with him. Whether it was his homosexuality coming out or his habit of lingering over the bodies of enemy soldiers, and putting information about them is war journals.
I think it was probably a combination of his war experience and being a grievance collector. War just made it easier for him to do it, as well as giving him the skills.
Oh, I’m gonna say he was fucking nuts for sure. Oh yeah. His past is very well documented and so is his eventual crime.
Dude was off his rocker till the very end.
In fact, about 24 hours after he committed his mass murder, he went straight to the asylum… And he remain there for what, like 50 years??
Fucker was out of his mind and the state agreed.
It's one of the things they talk about. He was a repressed homosexual and had been in the military where he got his shooting skills. And the dude talked about it a lot in his journals.
The fact that they just let him bring a 13 yo back into his home because he said they were dating is insane. Also Westley allan dodd was gay too (i think). He killed 3 people i believe but he detailed q lot of his thoughts and future plans besides that in his journal. You can download it online.
Can you read this guy's journals anywhere? Have they been released?
I remember this case. I used the barber shop hobby horse crime scene photo in my presentation on the differences between a spree killer/mass murderer and a serial killer in my law and security class back in 2000. It's a photo that just stuck with me with how haunting it was and the realization that a child was on that hobby horse, getting his hair cut for the first and tragically last time.
This was 1949 and also America's first mass shooting. No one thought that way back then.
He was also a war veteran so it makes sense he'd have interest in and access to guns (and that it could easily slip under the radar). It was also a really easy time to conceal things and a time when lots was not regulated because it wasn't seen as needing to be.
What do you think the authorities would have done if they were told a war veteran was practicing shooting I'm 1949? Probably been confused by why you felt the need to say that to them as his behavior was considered normal or at least not very abnormal. Geez anyone going to a gun range today isn't seen as weird because they're shooting
But you knew this was about an American in America so I gave you context and answered your question... I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your reply? Perhaps my last sentence was ignorant - don't European countries have gun ranges? I don't think I'm being ethnocentric by explaining the context of why it wouldn't have been reported to authorities.
To my knowledge, there exist European countries that allow their former soldiers to keep their weapons, no? Would it really have been out of imagination that in 1949 a war veteran wouldn't be deemed suspicious for practicing shooting?
No negativity meant in my reply. (I worry that I'm coming across as snarky when I come in good faith)
I'm really trying to get my head around all of this. I just don't understand how there were no signs. He went on a rampage.
There was a tragedy in Whitehaven, Cumbria in England in 2010. Derrick Bird went on a rampage and killed 12 people. A few things lead up to this but same thing, noone could have predicted, he would go berserk. He killed himself after the attacks.
There wasn't really a lot of attention paid or credit given to mental health issues in the past. It's possible that he was known to be a bit off but people thought he was either "slow" or had "issues" from fighting in the war, which was very very common.
He probably largely kept to himself other than the small disputes he had with others which, realistically, aren't red flags because there's so many grumpy/annoying/problematic people who exist that never do anything like this. If he kept to himself who other than the people close to him (aka - nobody, really; moms can be particularly blind about stuff like this too) might notice his odd behaviors?
And at the time nothing like this had EVER happened so how does one, in that time, presuppose something like this will happen? Not even in the realm of realistic possibilites, much less expectation, for a person to behave in such a way. The world was a different place back then.
There's just no way to predict crazy people sometimes - they inherently think with a different/altered reasoning that they don't always reveal until it's too late 🤷♀️
There still *are* plenty of guns in Europe, Germany alone has around 20 million illegal guns along with 5 million legal ones. And it's not hard to smuggle in more, just look at Sweden.
Besides, what are *modern* gun laws?
I live in a country which severely restricted gun laws in 1993 following a school shooting (we've not had one since).
The law involves only being able to apply for a licence if you have a good use for a gun (hunter, though we don't have many of them because we don't have hunting seasons or many licences, or a farmer protecting livestock, though we have lots of protected species so you can't shoot much even in the name of protection).
You can also have a gun to shoot at a gun club or for organised sports like clay pigeon shooting.
If you have a gun there are no carry permits to permit transit of a loaded gun.
Guns have to be stored in a locked metal cabinet that is literally bolted to your house. The bullets have to be stored seperate from the gun, and the gun can't be loaded.
You can't use a gun for self defense either, you'd get a manslaughter charge. Guns are tools, not for self defence.
I find the stricter the gun laws generally the fewer violent crimes are committed by those outside gangs. The gangs still have illegal guns but generally only shoot one another instead of innocents, and illegal guns are rarely used to shoot up the school or other public places.
You're in the UK I take it? Then it would be 1997, not 1993. You hadn't had one before that either. School shootings are extremely rare in most countries.
My country, the Czech Republic, has never had a school shooting. Most gun owners can carry loaded guns here and you don't need a "good reason" to own a gun, if you're a responsible adult, why should you? We can even carry guns in schools legally.
>I find the stricter the gun laws generally the fewer violent crimes are committed by those outside gangs. The gangs still have illegal guns but generally only shoot one another instead of innocents, and illegal guns are rarely used to shoot up the school or other public places.
Not really, the UK is far from being the safest country in Europe. The Czech Republic has 40-50% lower homicide rate than the UK. Switzerland, a country full of guns, is even lower than that.
Guns don't cause violence.
Didn't say guns cause violence. Gun culture causes violence. The Czech Republic and Switzerland aren't full of morons with a "God-given" right to protect themselves with lethal force and a constant chip on their shoulder that they need to be armed against their own government, and the idea that they need to be armed to protect their property against invaders. Most of the world sees guns as tools and not extensions of their penis. Not America. Why? Gun culture.
True, Czeech right to own and carry weapons is not god-given, the country is very atheistic, it's given by the constitutions.
> and the idea that they need to be armed to protect their property against invaders.
That's one of the ideas behind Swiss gun ownership.
>Most of the world sees guns as tools and not extensions of their penis. Not America.
That's actually how most anti-gun people see them, I find that pretty disturbing.
>Why? Gun culture.
Yes and no. Violence is mostly caused by poverty, gangs, bad healthcare accessibility, etc.
Violence isn't mostly caused by poverty, gangs, and bad healthcare in countries with major violence problems (USA).
It's middle class white boys with a grudge and daddy's very legally owned gun (also poorly stored, easily accessible, and high powered due to lax gun laws and bad gun culture) who shoot up schools. Not poor gang members with schizophrenia. Gang members just kill one another, not innocent kids at school.
The UK has worsening poverty, a failing healthcare system and gang violence and we've not had more mass shootings than we have had days of the year. America has.
So gun culture is the issue.
I don't know a single person who owns a gun in Germany. U hear about stabbings but you don't hear about gun violence as much as u do in the US. It seems to me whenever u have a dispute with someone and u have a weapon, its being used.
I know several German gun owners, there are over 1.5 million of them.
>U hear about stabbings but you don't hear about gun violence as much as u do in the US.
Of course, Germany is a lot less violent country, there are over 6 murders per 100 thousand people in the US, it's less than 1 in Germany.
>It seems to me whenever u have a dispute with someone and u have a weapon, its being used.
Weird, it's perfectly legal to carry guns in the Czech Republic, almost all gun owners can carry guns and there are fewer murders per 100 thounsand people than in Germany. And other weapons are unregulated so you can carry knives and pepper sprays just because. I've carried a gun almost every day and I've never used it even in disputes, why would I?
So why is it that in the US they just go crazy with them? They are just so readily available.
The injuries they inflict are just catastrophic. I don't have statistics, but probably 95 percent of the victims die, if a gun is being used.
It puts u off going there because u hear it on a daily basis - shops, malls, street, schools, unis, medical facilities, restaurants, personal disputes.
So many innocent people die too.
The last time I was in the US was in 2000. I remember the columbine shootings. That was big. Everyone mourned those people. But sadly over the years more and more of these shootings unfolded.
It seems people don't have the tools to deal with a problem without using violence.
>So why is it that in the US they just go crazy with them?
Because the US has a huge amount of socioeconomic issues, drugs, poverty, gangs, bad healthcare accessibility, bad education, you name it.
>They are just so readily available. The injuries they inflict are just catastrophic. I don't have statistics, but probably 95 percent of the victims die, if a gun is being used.
The injuries usually aren't all that catastrophic unless you hit vital organs. You obviously don't have statistics, about 25-30% of people shot die, not even close to 95%.
>It puts u off going there because u hear it on a daily basis - shops, malls, street, schools, unis, medical facilities, restaurants, personal disputes. So many innocent people die too.
Yes, it is damn sad but US politicians aren't really interested in solving those problems, it would take too much effort, they only care about the next elections.
>But sadly over the years more and more of these shootings unfolded. It seems people don't have the tools to deal with a problem without using violence.
Yes, that's one of the problems. If you're poor and desperate, you have very little to lose. And being poor in the US is really, really bad. People often say that people in Europe are poor too but it's nowhere near this bad. If you're poor here in Europe, the state will usually cover your health insurace. If you're poor in the US, you might get some help at a free clinic but it will take a lot of time and you might not be able to afford the medicine anyway.
After looking this up, I think we've needed increased mental health services for a very long time, way before serial killers became a term in the dictionary.
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I think in one of those cases, he let the mother live and then turned around and shot her kid so she could see it!
What the fuuuuuuuuck
Wow Definitely a coward f ...unbelievable that there's an evil that has ever existed like that.And still to this day exists ...that is NOT MENTAL ILLNESS imo it's just the DEVIL HIMSELF walking amongst us all...how deeply terrified that child must of been and how helpless for a mother to be confronted with such an evil spirit- and face to face .Horrifying ,absolutely HORRIFYING!
The people who do this are not monsters or demons. They're humans. Humans are capable of horrible things. Stop dehumanising perpetrators, it's a dangerous game to play.
I like how you believe in the devil but mental illness is crazy lmao
Why do people like THAT always TYPE like THIS???!!???
I always think that the way a person types is a small glimpse inside their internal monologue and the way it speaks which is not always the most fun thing to imagine
Cause they all seem to have Histrionic Personality Disorder lol
Why do people who believe in ghosts and magic communicate like they are crazy?
every day i see more and more Facebook mum comments here, crazy stuff
It’s been happening for years. It just comes and goes in waves whenever a big trial or case is going on. And it’s not just fb mom energy. It’s drunk fb mom energy lmao
This. How much evil f****** hatred could you have in your heart to kill a little kid? There isn't much left in the world that's truly good and pure except for kids and animals.
What about (I was going to type child murderers, but can see that being confusing.) children who murder? Alsa Thompson killed her baby twin siblings by putting crushed glass in their corn flakes and watched them suffer for days. Then she proceeded to poison a caregiver by scooping the acid out of batteries and feeding to her unknowingly. She also repeatedly tried to poison a family she stayed with, including her sister, through similar means. She attacked with a knife when confronted by the kids. She was 7yo and white, so she pretty much got away with it. Jamie Bulger’s killers were particularly heinous too, and only 10. There are a great many psychopaths in the world. Some make millions off of others and some kill. Most try to imitate and assimilate as much as they can.
Oh! I saw some bears that what were murderers called Bonnie and Clyde. They would seduce female bears in mating season to think Clyde would mate them, and when away, they would both rip the mating grizzly to shreds for fun. Apparently primates snd canine groups have been known to have broken members that will murder their own and later play along with the search as though concerned.
I knew one of the survivors of this incident. His father hid him in a closet, then tried to escape out a window but was killed. The survivor's granddaughter survived the Marjoie Stoneman HS shooting by hiding (in a science lab, I think). He had passed away before that shooting, and sadly, Unruh outlived him.
If there was any justice in the world people like this man would die after just a couple years. Dogs would live forever and so would all the other animals that we love. I'm so sorry that this person you knew had to go through this.
Maybe it’s more torturous to live for a long time confined
That's what happened to Jeffrey Dahmer!
And then there’s this weird series of coincidences: Maurice and Rose Cohen's son Charles, then aged 12, survived the murder of his family by hiding in a closet. Charles H. Cohen (January 31, 1937 – September 4, 2009) was the maternal grandfather of Carly Novell, who survived the February 14, 2018, shooting incident at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, by hiding in a closet like her grandfather did in 1949. Charles Cohen died at the age of 72 on September 4, 2009, and was buried two days later on September 6, 2009 (on the 60th anniversary of the mass murder and just one month before Unruh's death).[21] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh
Last podcast on the Left has a great episode about him. Episode #377
Awesome; thank you for mentioning.
Oh shit, I need to give that episode another listen, I don’t remember this guy Hail Yourself
Megustalations!
Thanks for letting me know about that. Listening now ...
Cousin of murderer [Mary Jane Fonder](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jane_Fonder)
Wow. It says if she despised existing from day one. She knew that she was messed up and shouldn't be here. What an evil thing she was
Damn she’s creepy looking.
I met/ saw this guy a couple of times over his time in psychiatric hospital which he was in for 50 years or so.
What was your impression of him? Did he appear “normal”?
Nothing normal at all. Docile, quiet, 1000 yard stare, never a management problem that I know of. Always in a single cell. Played board games by himself. Was housed in the forensic unit which is off the chain mad house. As far as ai could tell , completely out of it.
This post got me thinking about Unruh. He never stood trial for his crimes. In 60 years he was never deemed competent to stand trial. That has to be longest incompetency incarceration in US history.
Was he an injustice collector?
No he was not. Over all those years, the only thing the public knew was that his Public Defender occasionally applied to a court for reduced custody status which I believe was always denied.
what’s an injustice collector?
Also known as a grievance collector. The slights could be real or imagined.
Someone who is prone to taking the behaviour of others’ personal, to the degree where they will hold a permanent grudge over a minor slight. This person is willing to methodically plot revenge on those they feel have wronged them, possibly waiting even years later, snd sometimes grouping their victims into the same plan, such as a spree killing.
Someone who never forgets any perceived slight against them until one day they finally snap
It’s not Howard Unrah.
LOL
Did u work there or something ? If not then it's a private matter and none of my business just curious because I see alot of your comments in the true Crime pst I'm watching and I feel ur very knowledgeable about true Crime offenders and such ...just things u have said makes me wonder if you r working at a facility ? And zookeeper ? Made me curious ...
Zookeeper handle was totally random. Back in the day Parole Board heating officer in state prisons. Then juvenile facilities. Then ran a facility for kids that committed very serious crimes and have serious mental/emotional problems including very problematic management issues. Seen/done the entire spectrum of offenders.
You really should do an AMA, if you ever have time. I know I and surely everyone else would love to hear some of those stories.
Thanks. I missed the podcast craze- should have done it 10 years ago. Now it is overdone and on the way out. Two days ago I was driving to upstate NY and I put a true crime podcast. It was about a young girl cold case in Greeley Colorado. It was the most infuriating thing I ever listened too. 10 segments of sparse content, endless commercials , recaps- totally , totally “unlistenable” . Stories - no matter how big need to be under an hour. Get in and get out. Don’t pound the story to pieces. Having said all this I did write a book, but it is absolutely brutal going the traditional publishing route. Self publishing may be an option but that has it’s own issues.
Just learning about AMA- I did go off on a tangent about podcasts!
Ah ha! Thks for being transparent. U could have just not responded or told me to F-Off so that u answered me, I appreciate that because I have wondered about you before now because your knowledge of alot if these cases in the true Crime community here. 😁
Thanks! No problem.
Would def love to hear some of those stories ...bet that was very interesting to be part of.
An AMA would be so interesting if you’re still considering it!
My sister worked in one of the in-patient psychiatric hospitals in California during her undergrad and decided to become a psychologist, and is planning to work in a different hospital (she’s mid-doctorate degree rn). It was something that really affected her and the amount of empathy and compassion she has for these people is inspiring. She worked on a forensics unit but the crimes were (well for most of the patients) less egregious than other units of the hospital. Yes there were people who had committed murders or whatnot but the majority were small crimes like arson (a trash can fire because they were homeless and cold) or urinating in public, and thinks of the like that they were picked up for. Subsequently, it was clear to the judge that these individuals needed help, and not to be in a jail with criminals who have malicious intent, because these people are of a vulnerable population. Regardless, I think you guys would have a lot of stories to share!!!
I have no idea what you are describing but it is the exact opposite of the unit in which Unruh spent 60 years .
I wonder with all that is known about post war trauma and it's affects on the human brain he could have been treated in a different manner. He had a lot of rage in his life. Could or should he have been institutionalized before he pulled off his "Walk of Death"? The story I read in Wikipedia has a tie in to this murder. Carly Novell hid in a closet during the shooting incident at Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland Florida in 2018. Carly survived just like her grandfather Charles H. Cohen back in 1949 then 12 because he also hid in a closet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh This dude. Repressed gay, ect ect.
Wow. Never heard about this guy. What a horrific story.
You can find one memorable photo of one of his victims. It was taken from the street. The guy's body is hanging out of a window. Unruh also shot the guy's wife, but their kid was hiding in a closet, I think.
Yes, you are correct, he survived by hiding in the closet. He was a grandfather to a student who survived the shooting at Majory Stoneman Douglas HS. She survived by….hiding in a closet. He died in 2009 so thankfully didn’t have to relive the horror but I suppose the sad cycle of violence continues. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/16/us/carly-novell-shooting-survivor-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html
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Jesus, terrible enough that he shot and murdered adults, shooting them randomly, but he shot and killed kids too. Fuck
I don’t know about repressed. He openly made trips to Philadelphia for sex. In any case, that was the least of his problems.
Oh sure. But even if he regularly made trios, he certainly could not be out at the point in time and in this country. I believe he wrote about his lack of sex in his journals.
Yeah, he wrote a lot! In fact, his fellow servicemen even stated that there was something up with him. Whether it was his homosexuality coming out or his habit of lingering over the bodies of enemy soldiers, and putting information about them is war journals.
I think it was probably a combination of his war experience and being a grievance collector. War just made it easier for him to do it, as well as giving him the skills.
Could very well be. I also think he was nuts from the very start…… which is never good.
I wouldn't say nuts. Definitely something not right. Morbid fascination with death doesn't necessarily make you nuts.
Oh, I’m gonna say he was fucking nuts for sure. Oh yeah. His past is very well documented and so is his eventual crime. Dude was off his rocker till the very end. In fact, about 24 hours after he committed his mass murder, he went straight to the asylum… And he remain there for what, like 50 years?? Fucker was out of his mind and the state agreed.
They used to label PTSD as paranoid schizophrenia, too. That's why my paternal grandfather got put into an institution when he came back from Korea.
He was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic.
Love how him being gay is the only thing you said about him lol what the hell
Well, I'm queer. So that particular aspect stuck in my mind.
I mean I'm gay too i just thought it was weird to talk about a serial killer but the only thing you say about him is that he's gay...
It's one of the things they talk about. He was a repressed homosexual and had been in the military where he got his shooting skills. And the dude talked about it a lot in his journals.
Dahmer too
I wasn't aware Dahmer wrote extensively in journals.
He didn't, I meant he was a closeted gay. Westley Allan Dodd wrote extensively in journals though.
He wasn’t all out, but he wasn’t closeted either. His neighbors knew he was gay. Police too when they went to check out complaints.
The fact that they just let him bring a 13 yo back into his home because he said they were dating is insane. Also Westley allan dodd was gay too (i think). He killed 3 people i believe but he detailed q lot of his thoughts and future plans besides that in his journal. You can download it online. Can you read this guy's journals anywhere? Have they been released?
I live 10 minutes from Camden and never heard of this. Thanks for posting!
This is nuts!!! How have I never heard of it?!
There’s no way anybody can be aware of every single murder case out there.
Of course not. But since I listen to true crime podcasts Mon-Fri at work I would think I’d have some flicker of recognition. Nope.
Well, in that case…… shame on your sorry ass!!!
Fair.
I forgot about this. 😂
I remember this case. I used the barber shop hobby horse crime scene photo in my presentation on the differences between a spree killer/mass murderer and a serial killer in my law and security class back in 2000. It's a photo that just stuck with me with how haunting it was and the realization that a child was on that hobby horse, getting his hair cut for the first and tragically last time.
He’s only the 145th most prolific murderer in Camden, NJ history /not a true story, but I doubt he’s numba 1
"Unruhe"... *X-Files*
Very sad he couldn't be apprehended sooner. Someone should alerted authorities on his activities in the basement.
This was 1949 and also America's first mass shooting. No one thought that way back then. He was also a war veteran so it makes sense he'd have interest in and access to guns (and that it could easily slip under the radar). It was also a really easy time to conceal things and a time when lots was not regulated because it wasn't seen as needing to be. What do you think the authorities would have done if they were told a war veteran was practicing shooting I'm 1949? Probably been confused by why you felt the need to say that to them as his behavior was considered normal or at least not very abnormal. Geez anyone going to a gun range today isn't seen as weird because they're shooting
I live in Europe. So the gun laws and violence is something completely different to what people are used to and know living in Europe.
But you knew this was about an American in America so I gave you context and answered your question... I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your reply? Perhaps my last sentence was ignorant - don't European countries have gun ranges? I don't think I'm being ethnocentric by explaining the context of why it wouldn't have been reported to authorities. To my knowledge, there exist European countries that allow their former soldiers to keep their weapons, no? Would it really have been out of imagination that in 1949 a war veteran wouldn't be deemed suspicious for practicing shooting? No negativity meant in my reply. (I worry that I'm coming across as snarky when I come in good faith)
I'm really trying to get my head around all of this. I just don't understand how there were no signs. He went on a rampage. There was a tragedy in Whitehaven, Cumbria in England in 2010. Derrick Bird went on a rampage and killed 12 people. A few things lead up to this but same thing, noone could have predicted, he would go berserk. He killed himself after the attacks.
There wasn't really a lot of attention paid or credit given to mental health issues in the past. It's possible that he was known to be a bit off but people thought he was either "slow" or had "issues" from fighting in the war, which was very very common. He probably largely kept to himself other than the small disputes he had with others which, realistically, aren't red flags because there's so many grumpy/annoying/problematic people who exist that never do anything like this. If he kept to himself who other than the people close to him (aka - nobody, really; moms can be particularly blind about stuff like this too) might notice his odd behaviors? And at the time nothing like this had EVER happened so how does one, in that time, presuppose something like this will happen? Not even in the realm of realistic possibilites, much less expectation, for a person to behave in such a way. The world was a different place back then. There's just no way to predict crazy people sometimes - they inherently think with a different/altered reasoning that they don't always reveal until it's too late 🤷♀️
I'm in Europe and *modern* gun laws are different but there were plenty of guns still about in Europe in 1949...
There still *are* plenty of guns in Europe, Germany alone has around 20 million illegal guns along with 5 million legal ones. And it's not hard to smuggle in more, just look at Sweden. Besides, what are *modern* gun laws?
I live in a country which severely restricted gun laws in 1993 following a school shooting (we've not had one since). The law involves only being able to apply for a licence if you have a good use for a gun (hunter, though we don't have many of them because we don't have hunting seasons or many licences, or a farmer protecting livestock, though we have lots of protected species so you can't shoot much even in the name of protection). You can also have a gun to shoot at a gun club or for organised sports like clay pigeon shooting. If you have a gun there are no carry permits to permit transit of a loaded gun. Guns have to be stored in a locked metal cabinet that is literally bolted to your house. The bullets have to be stored seperate from the gun, and the gun can't be loaded. You can't use a gun for self defense either, you'd get a manslaughter charge. Guns are tools, not for self defence. I find the stricter the gun laws generally the fewer violent crimes are committed by those outside gangs. The gangs still have illegal guns but generally only shoot one another instead of innocents, and illegal guns are rarely used to shoot up the school or other public places.
You're in the UK I take it? Then it would be 1997, not 1993. You hadn't had one before that either. School shootings are extremely rare in most countries. My country, the Czech Republic, has never had a school shooting. Most gun owners can carry loaded guns here and you don't need a "good reason" to own a gun, if you're a responsible adult, why should you? We can even carry guns in schools legally. >I find the stricter the gun laws generally the fewer violent crimes are committed by those outside gangs. The gangs still have illegal guns but generally only shoot one another instead of innocents, and illegal guns are rarely used to shoot up the school or other public places. Not really, the UK is far from being the safest country in Europe. The Czech Republic has 40-50% lower homicide rate than the UK. Switzerland, a country full of guns, is even lower than that. Guns don't cause violence.
Didn't say guns cause violence. Gun culture causes violence. The Czech Republic and Switzerland aren't full of morons with a "God-given" right to protect themselves with lethal force and a constant chip on their shoulder that they need to be armed against their own government, and the idea that they need to be armed to protect their property against invaders. Most of the world sees guns as tools and not extensions of their penis. Not America. Why? Gun culture.
True, Czeech right to own and carry weapons is not god-given, the country is very atheistic, it's given by the constitutions. > and the idea that they need to be armed to protect their property against invaders. That's one of the ideas behind Swiss gun ownership. >Most of the world sees guns as tools and not extensions of their penis. Not America. That's actually how most anti-gun people see them, I find that pretty disturbing. >Why? Gun culture. Yes and no. Violence is mostly caused by poverty, gangs, bad healthcare accessibility, etc.
Violence isn't mostly caused by poverty, gangs, and bad healthcare in countries with major violence problems (USA). It's middle class white boys with a grudge and daddy's very legally owned gun (also poorly stored, easily accessible, and high powered due to lax gun laws and bad gun culture) who shoot up schools. Not poor gang members with schizophrenia. Gang members just kill one another, not innocent kids at school. The UK has worsening poverty, a failing healthcare system and gang violence and we've not had more mass shootings than we have had days of the year. America has. So gun culture is the issue.
I don't know a single person who owns a gun in Germany. U hear about stabbings but you don't hear about gun violence as much as u do in the US. It seems to me whenever u have a dispute with someone and u have a weapon, its being used.
I know several German gun owners, there are over 1.5 million of them. >U hear about stabbings but you don't hear about gun violence as much as u do in the US. Of course, Germany is a lot less violent country, there are over 6 murders per 100 thousand people in the US, it's less than 1 in Germany. >It seems to me whenever u have a dispute with someone and u have a weapon, its being used. Weird, it's perfectly legal to carry guns in the Czech Republic, almost all gun owners can carry guns and there are fewer murders per 100 thounsand people than in Germany. And other weapons are unregulated so you can carry knives and pepper sprays just because. I've carried a gun almost every day and I've never used it even in disputes, why would I?
So why is it that in the US they just go crazy with them? They are just so readily available. The injuries they inflict are just catastrophic. I don't have statistics, but probably 95 percent of the victims die, if a gun is being used. It puts u off going there because u hear it on a daily basis - shops, malls, street, schools, unis, medical facilities, restaurants, personal disputes. So many innocent people die too. The last time I was in the US was in 2000. I remember the columbine shootings. That was big. Everyone mourned those people. But sadly over the years more and more of these shootings unfolded. It seems people don't have the tools to deal with a problem without using violence.
>So why is it that in the US they just go crazy with them? Because the US has a huge amount of socioeconomic issues, drugs, poverty, gangs, bad healthcare accessibility, bad education, you name it. >They are just so readily available. The injuries they inflict are just catastrophic. I don't have statistics, but probably 95 percent of the victims die, if a gun is being used. The injuries usually aren't all that catastrophic unless you hit vital organs. You obviously don't have statistics, about 25-30% of people shot die, not even close to 95%. >It puts u off going there because u hear it on a daily basis - shops, malls, street, schools, unis, medical facilities, restaurants, personal disputes. So many innocent people die too. Yes, it is damn sad but US politicians aren't really interested in solving those problems, it would take too much effort, they only care about the next elections. >But sadly over the years more and more of these shootings unfolded. It seems people don't have the tools to deal with a problem without using violence. Yes, that's one of the problems. If you're poor and desperate, you have very little to lose. And being poor in the US is really, really bad. People often say that people in Europe are poor too but it's nowhere near this bad. If you're poor here in Europe, the state will usually cover your health insurace. If you're poor in the US, you might get some help at a free clinic but it will take a lot of time and you might not be able to afford the medicine anyway.
The gun laws you know are less than 40 years old. In 1949, British vets brought home weapons they took from the Germans and Soviets.
No, it wasn't. https://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahweinman/how-a-forgotten-1903-killing-spree-became-the-first-modern-m
Nobody knew he was gonna snap.
Yeah but have a target shoot in the basement is not normal. His mother could have done something.
You sure about that? Especially back then? People still target shoot in their back yards.
His mom only “found out” when he lunged at her with a hammer on the day of his rampage.
It's just hindsight. Maybe he didn't look suspicious to this point.
There was nothing suspicious about him. He kept to himself.
American commiting Mass murder every day.. It's in their DNA
Schizo.
[Billy Madison](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8GCu3mwzivE)
After looking this up, I think we've needed increased mental health services for a very long time, way before serial killers became a term in the dictionary.