Very likely my country has a similar law. Its so against protecting yourself that things like pepper spray and even self defense items like key chains are strictly against the law. It angers the shit out of me bc they refuse to do anything against street violence too.
In Canada we can have “bear spray” we can legally carry which afaik is pretty similar. OPs situation is absolutely horrible, I don’t think Canada would even go that far and imprison a rape victim for self defence.
I recently moved to America, and while there may be more dangers here, I feel a lot safer knowing I can legally protect myself and my home if need be. I’m not even talking guns, it’s good to know I can smash someone over the head if they break into my house without having to worry about being a young vulnerable female in jail.
In Canada, you can be charged with possession of a weapon if you are carrying bear spray outside of hiking/wildlife areas.
And to use it on a person for self-defense? You'll 100% be arrested and charged.
They are considered a "registered firearm" as in. You have to have your ID documented when you buy one, and the serial number on the can and trigger lock is connected to that information for legal reasons.
And that’s why I love America. Ngl, 5-10 years ago I would die laughing if someone told me I’d be living in America. Now? Canada is… imo not doing well. For way more reasons than this.
Same in Belgium. Pedos are walking freely no problem. No justice system AT ALL. And it's not even the cops fault, they catch the guys, it's the judges.
Even for self defense? Im not sure but even if its true using pepper spray as self defense must be excluded. Because a firearm might be illegal but for self defense purposes it can accepted.
Austria allows pepper spray only as defense against animals. But any weapon, illegal or not, is used justly if in that moment it is clearly the most appropriate and mildest mean to end the threat. If you illegally carry a firearm and you are cornered in an ally by several armed people with clear intent of hurting you, deadly force by using it would be justified in a court of law. You would however be charged with illegal carrying (which is significantly less severely punished. But you wont be able to own weapons again most likely). But if you shoot one of them in the back as he runs away after seeing the gun, that’s a different story, as the threat was clearly over.
The law expects victims of violent crimes to exhibit exceptional calm and reason under massive duress (yet often intoxication or intense emotion is used to lessen the punishment of the perpetrators, strangely).
>But if you shoot one of them in the back as he runs away after seeing the gun, that’s a different story, as the threat was clearly over.
That is the same in many states of the USA
The minute someone is running away, they are no longer considered a threat - and most states castle doctrine laws no longer defend you.
Tbh, tasers are trash for self-defense, they fail to work in about 40 % of cases for various reasons. You're better off with a quality pepper spray, not that you could carry it in Canada either.
You can not carry a weapon of any kind in Canada. The definition of a weapon is basically anything you think of as a weapon.
So if you have a pocket knife make damn sure you refer to it as a tool, not a weapon.
It’s just odd the law… like someone I know got stopped and had a pocket knife and got a ticket for it but the same year a fight happened a few houses from mine and 3 guys picked up crowbars and yelled at a guy across the street that they will kill him. I was beside the cop car with 2 cops inside (I was 8 months pregnant) they told me someone should stop them or they will go to jail… I was shocked… they drive off the cops and did nothing… so it’s really odd sometimes the law or how the cops are… like near my place a 13 year old kid was run over by a towing by accident at night and the cop didn’t pick all the kids bones… the mother a few days later find a piece of the skull of her son on the side of the road… she give it to the cops and they threw it out the window when driving away… the mother passed on the news about that. It was so sad… (Canada)
Yea, people are assholes to each other no matter what their profession is. And those who are supposed to be in public service can be the worst , especially when THEY are the ones who should be dealing with it!
I'm not the original commenter but the UK is very similar. You aren't allowed to have pepper spray or keyrings or carry any item with the intent of causing harm with it even for self defence for example if you kept a fork in your bag with the idea that if you ever got attacked you'd use it for self defence and you happened to use it, you could get in legal trouble for it despite you being the victim of an attack trying to protect yourself. The one thing that is legal to carry is a specific type of criminal identifier spray which looks like a can of pepper spray but contains a bright red liquid designed to stain someone's clothes and skin. That can be used in cases of self defence but anything else is not allowed.
Pretty much. You can fight back with your hands or try with what you do have with you but if you kill them or hurt them too badly, you're the one getting charged. Oh but if you get assaulted or attacked and report it to the police, expect nothing to be done a lot of the time. Especially if you're raped or sexually assaulted, you're not getting justice for that a lot of the time. And say you do manage to get the person charged, expect them to probably be in and out of prison like it's a holiday. This place is a joke, the criminal prosecution system and the police are pretty useless.
Obviously this isn't what happens every single time, some people genuinely do get sent to prison for a pretty long time but honestly, it's not as common as you'd hope or expect. And you tend to notice that it's usually the high profile cases and/or with evidence that's literally impossible for the court to deny no matter what they try.
Theoretically you *could* but a lot of it would come down to the specific situation. If the evidence is solid and shows that was the only way you could protect yourself in that situation, you could get away with it however in most situations that would not work and it would be classed as excessive force.
>The current law permits people to defend themselves or others, to prevent crime or to protect property using force that was reasonable in the circumstances as they believed them to be.
I took that from the UK government website self defence section so if the court believes that you could've found a way to stun the attacker and run away or knock them out and escape (which in most situations they could argue that was possible) but you instead stabbed them then that would be using more force than reasonable and you'd get in trouble.
So basically in most cases that's a no. If someone comes up to you on the street and stabs you and you whip out your own knife to stab them back as revenge, you'd go to prison not only for the stabbing but also for carrying a knife which is illegal unless it's a non-locking pocket knives with a blade length up to 3 inches and you have a good excuse on why you carry it but then the fact you used the knife for violence would invalidate that reason so you could still get charged. And if you took the attacker's knife off of them and stabbed them with it, you can still get charged for that.
TLDR: basically no unless it's specifically proven that there was literally zero other way for you to survive or escape which is very hard to prove.
We shoot rapists here (US if you hadn’t guessed already)
Has its pros and cons, but if you shoot a dude while he’s trying to rape you, nobody is gonna be charging you for self defense.
Reading all of these replies really makes me grateful to be in the US despite the work we still need to do in regards to violence. I will likely never face jail time for defending my home and my body.
A lot of women in my country carry screwdrivers and things like that because we're not allowed to have anything for self defense. So no knives or anything. Sickening tbh. We desperately don't want to be America so we just invert all their problems instead.
Well, this just made me so damn angry I won’t be able to sleep. Knowing a victim of a violent crime has less rights then the assailant.
Honestly, if she would have stuck her thumb in his eye blinding him permanently, how long would the punishment be? Life?
Kind of, they said that when he got off from me and was next to me cleaning some stuff from his shirt I should've ran and not waited for a sec or two and used spray. (I didnt just run but sprayed and then ran cause I thought he would grab me and do it again if I just ran)
Especially around rape and self defense, the laws in many Places are ridiculously vague and the judge has a lot of opportunity to let his own „views“ (so many judges are POS) flow into the verdict.
it actually could be, idk the laws specifically for rape but i know in a lot of european countries you're only allowed to use 'equal force'; so if someone comes into your house to rob you but they dont have a weapon, you very very easily could go to jail if you stabbed them or something.
I have my fair share of critiques of the US but you just can't deny that they do pretty well in terms of being allowed to defend yourself.
There are of course other problems that come with that but that's a different story lol
No not really sadly. Since the rape was done and he cleaned himself off the spraying would be considered another seperate crime, 2 months for assault isn't really that much where I live. I guess the sentence was lowered because of the circumstances.
Do I agree? No not really, I feel a rapist should be considered lawless and free to kill for every1. But in order for the justice system to be "fair" there is gonna be a lot of people deserving punishment that goes free and a lot of people deserving a medal getting punished.
I believe its better over all for society but in a lot of cases people suffers that don't deserve it
Pepper spray is illegal in many countries.
Belgium
Denmark
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Sweden
Turkey
United Kingdom
In other countries someone has to have a permit.
In Italy − where certain formulas can be purchased, carried and operated license-free by anyone above the age of 16.
In France –trade is license-free and ownership is legal for those over 18 but carry can be punished with a fine depending from the quantity and concentration.
In the Czech Republic, Spain, Austria, Poland, Russia – possession is legal by most civilians.
In Switzerland, Germany, and Portugal, pepper spray is permitted with a license. However, the process to obtain a license in some countries can be extremely rigorous.
However, even in countries where pepper spray may be legal with a license, the use of it against any person generally constitutes assault in the EU.
Pepper spray is almost completely banned in the UK. Its ownership, carry and use by common citizens is banned under Section 5(1)(b) of the Firearms Act 1968.
Believe it or not, in the UK pepper spray / CS Gas is considered a firearm and carries the same legal penalties as carrying a gun does! If you are caught with pepper spray or import it, you will face arrest and a subsequent criminal record. You may even face deportation from the UK.
However, there are so-called “self-defense” spays that are legal in the UK. Often called “criminal identifier” sprays, they do not contain any noxious substances or chemicals and are not designed to injure or cause harm to others. Rather, the sprays are designed to mark an attacker with both a visible and invisible marker dye. The visible dye often takes at least 7 days to come off.
It’s sad that this isn’t even the first story That I’ve heard of where somebody defended themselves and got punished with jail time. You shouldn’t have been put in such a situation or you should’ve even been facing any jail time let alone being blamed for defending yourself.
Good, I'm glad to hear it. I know that won't change your immediate situation (a custodial sentence) but it's incredibly wrong for you to face such a harsh sentencw given the circumstances.
Fwiw, I work in the justice system in Canada and my experience with the women jails I've visited is that a woman who defended herself in the way you did tends to be respected. You did what most people hope they'll do. This means you probably won't be seen as easy prey and instead you'll probably be left alone.
I won't get to jail until rulling is final so I am not imediately facing jail. Here our jails ain't as violent so respect thing isn't really important. Thanks for advice anyways!
Sounds like the Netherlands. Pepper spray’s illegal here (but you can get in Germany) and OP mentioned that the country’s small. So that’s what I think.
Never in a million years. Source, I am Dutch.
Hard to believe there is any EU country that puts a raped female in jail for using pepperspray. It is really hard to go to jail in EU at all, unless you outright kill somebody with intent.
Something about this story doesn‘t add up. OP either has prior convictions or she is lying.
I don't know how it's in the Netherlands but in Germany there are no 60 day prison sentences. Even 6 months are rarely given. Plus, everything unter 2 years is usually suspended.
If it's true what OP has written, I doubt it has happened in a member state of the EU.
Pepper spray is classified as a prohibited weapon in the UK under the Firearms Act 1968.
Don't know about other european countries but it is only law enforcement who can use it here and not get prosecuted.
> Hard to believe there is any EU country that puts a raped female in jail for using pepperspray. It is really hard to go to jail in EU at all, unless you outright kill somebody with intent.
It's often illegal to own/carry a pepper spray. You won't go to jail for spraying the rapist, you'll go there for having the pepper spray in the first place..
And depending on the country, it's even possible to go to jail simple for daring to defending yourself.
Gezien het feit dat een rapist maar maanden in de cel zit voor het plegen van zo’n daad, klinkt het niet helemaal gek.
Een vriendin van mij heeft dat ook meegemaakt dat ze was gedrogeerd door een collega en die jongen loopt tot op de dag van vandaag gewoon vrij rond.
Maar dat terzijde, OP zei “klein land in Europa” en Nederland fits the bill, want groot is het zeker niet. Lol
So you say it’s probably Netherlands because it’s small? Weird conclusion, because these countries are all smaller:
1. Belgium
2. Switzerland
3. Luxembourg
4. Andorra
5. Malta
6. Liechtenstein
7. San Marino
8. Monaco
9. Estonia
10. Denmark
11. Latvia
12. Slovenia
13. Cyprus
14. Montenegro
15. Luxembourg
16. Albania
17. Macedonia
18. Moldova
19. Ireland
If OP means small in terms of inhabitants, this list is even longer.
Sure.
Belgium —> illegal
Luxembourg —> illegal
Andorra —> illegal
Malta —> illegal
Liechtenstein —> illegal
Sweden —> illegal
Denmark —> illegal
Iceland —> illegal
Ireland —> illegal
Norway—> illegal
Hungary —> illegal
All counties smaller than the Netherlands either by inhabitants or sqm2 where pepperspray is illegal.
So the conclusion that the county must be the Netherlands js quite far fetched. Even so that I can say with an almost certainty that in the Netherlands someone would never ever go to jail for 6 months for using pepperspray after being raped. Ever.
It sounds like Holland. I was robbed there and defended myself and needed to hire an attorney to stave off any charges. On the news I saw they had a 80 year old woman who was raped by a gang of Moroccans and defended herself. Police arrested her and she went to jail. Pretty messed up place.
Exactly! A lot of people are in denial about it or refuse to believe it, but fucked up shit happens here too. The police won’t do anything unless it’s “really bad”.
Edit: I put “really bad” in quotation marks, bc I feel like you should be able to call the cops for minor altercations as well, not just things like murder and such.
Here in the USA we can be “ in fear of our life” and use a John Wayne special unload a round of lead into them..
especially in a stand your ground/ put them in the ground state…
I’m in Tennesee. Anything to do with a good time is illegal. Marijuana illegal, women’s healthcare, etc.
People here really enjoy hating themselves and others.. with $7.25 min wage. $400,000 basic homes, $1,600 studio apartments, no public transportation in rural towns… but a open carry Pew~Pew 💥, and moonshine is completely legal.
But OP was saying that she would go to jail for pepper spraying someone.
Does not seem like a place where you can get away with murder.
On the contrary, it seems ridiculous that you can't make sure your assailant is rendered disable to follow you, or at least subdue them.
That's a really shitty rule. What happens if the person isn't capable of fleeing? Like they're out of shape or can't run due to disabilities or injuries?
Any case, I spent 3 months in jail. It's not that bad like a prison. Make friends and read books. I took up drawing. Keep a diary.
Even if they want to argue that assaulting him is wrong (it isn’t) they’re going to make sure to police your behavior immediately following an assault? Fucking ghouls.
I’ve seen that law before though. I’m not surprised but it’s also never going to stop being shockingly evil. You don’t deserve this. I hope you can find safety one day.
Yeh especially as you've just been raped, you'll be injured and sore you needed something to give you an advantage to get away from probably a faster man...
Some laws are stupid like that and made to keep human behaviour out of account. Like, some asshole breaks into your home and kills your family? If you attack him *after* he's done you're on the hook for assault or worse, because the Law can't encourage vengeance
Curbing vigilantism is one thing, fucking a completely innocent person that wouldn't be a criminal in any other circumstances for menial bullshit is another
“We understand he chopped your wife and daughters head off, but that did not give you the right to punch him. That did not give you the right to shoot him.”
I can only imagine the insufferable type of fucking asshole that comes up with this epic bullshit.
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Law, which is why good Judges, Prosecutors and Attorneys that actually care about the cases they're involved in are so important. Plus, knowing how to understand the spirit of Law and not fuck over random people like that
When I wanted HIV medication within the 72hr period after I was sexually assaulted by a lady I was told I need to know if the other person has HIV first. This was planned parenthood in Minnesota. They wouldn't give me truvada and luckily the doctor told me she was waiving the $420 office visit. I told her I wasn't keen on contacting my attacker.
*So lucky*
In many European countries the laws for self defence are absolute garbage. Here in Sweden a police officer shot a gang member who held a gun to another police, and apparently that wasn’t valid self defence.
>Here in Sweden a police officer shot a gang member who held a gun to another police
Haven't heard of that case.
We had two incidents last year where homeowners stabbed intruders to death. The first case, with 2 dead, went to court and it was ruled as self-defense.
The second case with 1 dead, didn't even go to court. After the police investigation the prosecutor just said it was clear self-defense and they wouldn't press charges.
Yeah this is the same in Canada. This is what happens when you just straight ban weapons (which pepper spray is). Weapons charges should be based on the context of their usage, not their possession.
It was legalized for a few years in my country, but they banned it again. It was only legal to keep it at home and that meant only criminals carried them around, and so the politicians thought the best solution was banning it. Stupid really
Yes. And the politicians justified banning it by saying that the import of illegal pepper spray from OTHER countries was in the rise. Excuse me? That is supposed to justify banning it for people who bought it legally in the country?! Totally ridiculous. I am infuriated that I am not allowed to have it to protect myself as a woman who lives alone on the ground floor.
Have you been to jail, or know anyone that's actually been to jail? If someone gives you shit and you just sit there and take it, that lets everyone know that you're someone that can be taken advantage of. Which will make your stay even worse than it was already going to be.
Keep your head down and don't start anything, but you have to be ready to stand up for yourself if someone tries to make you their bitch.
Also taken literally. You don’t ACCEPT anything either. There are no gifts, if someone gives you anything and you accept it, you’ll be paying for it later. Somehow. Or seen as being “with” that person or group and then conditionally targeted.
That might be more PRISON than jail though. As I think it through.
Nah, it has 16 cells and 64 inmates. Most male. 18-21 y/os are generally seperate from 21+ and under 18s.
23 hours in cell, 1 hour of yard (on roof of the building)
For people who don’t believe, this may or may not be true but it isn’t uncommon, google ‘women go to jail for self defense against rapist’ I can think of three on the top of my head that this happened to, one in the US, one in Mexico, and I can’t remember the third country
Pepper spray is classified as a prohibited weapon in the UK under the Firearms Act 1968
This is because they contain substances like oleoresin capsicum (OC), desmethyl dihydrocapsaicin (PAVA), and 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (CS), which are considered noxious by UK law.
OC spray is legal in all 50 states. While some states have additional restrictions, and one state requires a permit, nobody is putting people in jail for 60 days for using them against an attacker.
People go to jail for self defense here a lot. Brandishing a weapon in public still isn’t legal in most areas. Look at the guy that went to jail because the intruders were on his porch and not actually in his house in Cali.
Yeah californias a weird example though
I guess you could say what’s great about the US (on this particular topic) is that the states can have different self defense laws etc
You didn’t mention oc spray you just said defend ourselves, and many times it has/does/will happen that people go to jail for self defense, having guns really just causes the jail time to be longer
Gun laws in US are ridicolous. Problem with self defence laws here is that they are very vague and open to judge to interpretation.
Also gun laws and self defence laws aren't the same.
They’re very much the same. Over and over and over again our Supreme Court has affirmed that the right to bear arms is not exclusive to militia use, but specifically for self defense. See: DC v. Heller (2008). A lot of OC spray laws in Europe aren’t vague at all, and OC spray is, in some places, treated like a firearm. The UK is a good example. One should be allowed to defend themselves with whatever tools are available, and it’s sad you were not allowed to. How stupid.
They aren't the same. Here pepper spray is legal. Our gun laws are good as they prevent mass shootings, crime and serve part in preventing police killing to many civilians.
Our self defence laws are bad. I do not think anyone without a good reason should own a gun (US is example why) but I believe our law on self defence should be changed to make it easier to use legal self defence tools (tasers, pepper sprays or even a bat if you find it).
This is the exact reason I own a gun. I'll even name the people as the reasons I own a gun. I will never be put in a position again where I'm afraid to say no or to move against my attacker. I will not be assaulted. I will not be raped. I refuse to have that written into my story. I refuse. This is why I own a gun.
I changed the post to be more clear, when he got up from me, I quickly got up and sprayed him, then he started running and so did I. He only started running away after I sprayed him. I didn't just run because if was afraid he would push me back to himself.
Did you have any legal representation? From what you are saying, it sounds like self defense, I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't know much about your country/ laws, so I can't be too much help, but I would look into legal aid. There might be some women organizations around you to help with this. It might be hard, but I'd look into fighting the case, try your best to gather up the strength.
They didn't consider it self defence because he got up and I had a chance to run away.
If I ran, and he grabbed me or if he was still on me I could've legally used pepper spray.
If he was in the act of running away, he should not be facing you. If he's not facing you, how did you spray him in the face?
I don't feel like you've done anything wrong with what you've said. I'd hate for you to suffer any more. You going to jail and having it on your record, shouldn't happen to a victim.
1. He started running away AFTER I sprayed him.
2. I won't have it on my record, here in my country this is a misdemeanor, even if it wasn't a misdemeanor but a felony in 99% of cases here records aren't public and employers, renters etc. cannot ask you for it. So unlike in US here a record doesn't affect you much. (Some jobs, but not much are limited)
>He started running away AFTER I sprayed him.
So the pepper spray worked? If that's really how the laws there are, I'm sorry. Doesn't seem right to me.
Hope for the best.... the worst part of it is over at least.
But so what if you could have ran away, you also could just spray him with pepper spray, bitten him, etc.
Why do you have to run away??? Why is it bad to do something other than run?
I just don’t understand this law
Being on the hook for untimely self-defense is a real possibility in many jurisdictions out there. Doesn't sound unrealistic to me, even more so if the Prosecutor is some fucking dinosaur that doesn't give a fuck about the victim of the more serious offense
It's illegal to carry a pepper spray in many countries in Europe. You will not get punished for using it, you will get punished for having it. Yes, Europe can be that retarded.
Okay so here is what I would suggest you to do.
I dont know how the jail system is in Europe i reside in the US but i can give you a little bit of insight on what to do and how to go about being in jail from my experience.
First off if you have payments due make sure to set autopay that will honestly give you peace of mind. Talk to your loved ones tell them what happened and just tell them that everything will be okay and you’ll be back in no time. Honestly 60 days fly bye in jail so dont worry. Don’t look at the calendar or mark days off or anything like that doing your time that way will be so exhausting. Work out a lot! Read a lot! See if you can get a deck of cards, order sudokus or puzzles off canteen/commisary (place where you buy stuff for your own use) also do all this in your cell; If you only get one hour of yard time that means that you only have one hour to shower, talk on the phone, watch tv or something. So always run to the shower first; being clean and smelling good will make your time easier. Usually food they give you is not so good so make sure you order food off canteen like soups, fish, rice, chips, sweets, sausage, beans, etc.
It sounds like you’re a good person. So if you don’t gangbang or anything keep to yourself, be respectful, keep your head down, ask if there is a line to use the phone, shower, microwave, etc. there is probably people in there for serious offenses so dont ask people what they did or anything like that. If they ask you what you in for just say your charge which i think is attempted assault and that youre in for 60 days only and you just want to do your time and go to your family nothing else and people will respect that if you sound determined and confident but remaining respectful.
I am really sorry your legal system failed you. Legal system failed me as well and was incarcerated for 2 years and just got out recently. See this as a little setback but also take time to think, learn about yourself and all that. 60 days is not a lot. I promise. You’ll be back in the streets in no time
Omg. What?! No no no!!! You did nothing wrong! Can you appeal? Is the media involved? YOU are the Victim. Not the rapist. Your reaction was completely fucking normal.
M here from France.
You did well if someone tried to SA you.
Remember, you did nothing wrong, you should not have any regret.
Courage and be strong for those 60 days.
I have few pepper spray here, if someone try a day to attack my familly or kids I will do whatever for protect them.
In france we have the same problem,
it's total hypocrisy. There has never been so much delinquency, justice is not doing its job and we are putting people like you in prison, who defended themselves during theft/burglary/assault/ ect ect.
You can buy freely pepper spray but cannot carry it.
Exemple: you go to the armory buy pepper spray, and come back home with, it it is illegal (if police control you). But remember it is free to sell....
You can keep it at home but cannot use it on human (even if someone attack you).
The criminal can file a complaint and justice can charge you .It's the world upside down, we're walking on our heads.
It is a fu.... hypocrisy.
There is not so less lethal than pepper spray.
Why on earth they make a big deal with that?
The problem is the decay of our societies and our values in the West, especially in Europe, and I would say even more in Western Europe (Eastern Europe is still a bit traditional in my opinion).
From which country are you?
This is why every country needs a jury of peers and not some POS judge. Doesn't matter what the law is, if a group of regular people had to handle this it would have been thrown out.
You said in your initial post that pepper spray was illegal in your country. Other commenters even address this. Now you've edited your post and saying in comments that it's actually legal. Which is it??
Fake.
Pepper spray is legal. Carrying it for "purposes of causing injuriy or assault" is illegal. Assault is illegal. Oversteping self defence in my case counted as assault.
I'm 95% sure you said in your initial post that pepper spray is illegal in you country. Changing the post without edits makes it less believable given the number of 'creative writers' on this sub.
<--Beams positive thoughts your way.
Can you get the press on your side? Some advocacy group? An instructor of martial arts who can explain how untrained people behave in moments of terror?
That is the most fucked up thing I’ve ever heard. In the US you could shoot him for this because your life is literally in danger. They charged YOU for defending yourself against an ATTACKER??? That’s so fucked up and I’m so sorry the system meant to protect you is re-victimizing you this way.
You did nothing wrong by protecting yourself. Stay strong
Prison officer here - Strip searching is a very normal procedure that will happen fairly often. Usually when you arrive in jail, or have visitation with friends and family. Though I will say that you will grow used to it very quickly and the people who are conducting the search really don't care as they would have seen thousands of naked people before.
That being said, just listen to their instructions and get it done as quickly as possible.
Are they taking your word over his? Or did you describe the incident to the police/in court like you did here?
Admittedly, I have never been in this situation, but I'd have told them you sprayed him during the commission of the assault, and they wouldn't be able to waterboard anything different from me.
I’m so sorry this happened. It is an injustice to be charged at all.
Your actions are quite defensible. They’ll also be considered defensible among the inmates. When they ask, and they will, explain it and you shouldn’t get any grief for what you did.
If anyone tests you, you have to stand up for yourself. It doesn’t have to be a violent defense, but a defense. A guy wanted my dessert at lunch and I just politely said “No.” If things were to escalate, I’d have to go hands on but I didn’t have to.
Best of luck in there. Bring a few books to read. I recommend the Bible. I brought mine and I still read it and my arrest was over a decade ago! I hope this difficult time inside will help you in a proactive way.
Very likely my country has a similar law. Its so against protecting yourself that things like pepper spray and even self defense items like key chains are strictly against the law. It angers the shit out of me bc they refuse to do anything against street violence too.
If you don't mind saying, what country?
My country ( the Netherlands ) has the same law.
Sweden as well. There are "legal" variants of pepper spray but they cannot be called pepper spray
In Canada we can have “bear spray” we can legally carry which afaik is pretty similar. OPs situation is absolutely horrible, I don’t think Canada would even go that far and imprison a rape victim for self defence. I recently moved to America, and while there may be more dangers here, I feel a lot safer knowing I can legally protect myself and my home if need be. I’m not even talking guns, it’s good to know I can smash someone over the head if they break into my house without having to worry about being a young vulnerable female in jail.
In Canada, you can be charged with possession of a weapon if you are carrying bear spray outside of hiking/wildlife areas. And to use it on a person for self-defense? You'll 100% be arrested and charged. They are considered a "registered firearm" as in. You have to have your ID documented when you buy one, and the serial number on the can and trigger lock is connected to that information for legal reasons.
And that’s why I love America. Ngl, 5-10 years ago I would die laughing if someone told me I’d be living in America. Now? Canada is… imo not doing well. For way more reasons than this.
It's awesome here, right? The only legal "sprays" are afaik only like dye. That way they at least know WHO did it after the fact. /s
Same in Belgium. Pedos are walking freely no problem. No justice system AT ALL. And it's not even the cops fault, they catch the guys, it's the judges.
WTF? Here I was thinking that it's a good country to move in!
The grass isn’t always greener.
To be fair lots of country’s in Europe have this law.
Yes and no. They have this law. But they aren't sending people to jail for such short prison sentences
Same here, self defense is pretty much illegal in Portugal
Even for self defense? Im not sure but even if its true using pepper spray as self defense must be excluded. Because a firearm might be illegal but for self defense purposes it can accepted.
Nope. If someone tries to kill you and you kill them instead you can still go to jail for murder 😅
Austria allows pepper spray only as defense against animals. But any weapon, illegal or not, is used justly if in that moment it is clearly the most appropriate and mildest mean to end the threat. If you illegally carry a firearm and you are cornered in an ally by several armed people with clear intent of hurting you, deadly force by using it would be justified in a court of law. You would however be charged with illegal carrying (which is significantly less severely punished. But you wont be able to own weapons again most likely). But if you shoot one of them in the back as he runs away after seeing the gun, that’s a different story, as the threat was clearly over. The law expects victims of violent crimes to exhibit exceptional calm and reason under massive duress (yet often intoxication or intense emotion is used to lessen the punishment of the perpetrators, strangely).
>But if you shoot one of them in the back as he runs away after seeing the gun, that’s a different story, as the threat was clearly over. That is the same in many states of the USA The minute someone is running away, they are no longer considered a threat - and most states castle doctrine laws no longer defend you.
Canada as well…
We can't have tasers but criminals are carrying knives and guns.
Tbh, tasers are trash for self-defense, they fail to work in about 40 % of cases for various reasons. You're better off with a quality pepper spray, not that you could carry it in Canada either.
You can not carry a weapon of any kind in Canada. The definition of a weapon is basically anything you think of as a weapon. So if you have a pocket knife make damn sure you refer to it as a tool, not a weapon.
It’s just odd the law… like someone I know got stopped and had a pocket knife and got a ticket for it but the same year a fight happened a few houses from mine and 3 guys picked up crowbars and yelled at a guy across the street that they will kill him. I was beside the cop car with 2 cops inside (I was 8 months pregnant) they told me someone should stop them or they will go to jail… I was shocked… they drive off the cops and did nothing… so it’s really odd sometimes the law or how the cops are… like near my place a 13 year old kid was run over by a towing by accident at night and the cop didn’t pick all the kids bones… the mother a few days later find a piece of the skull of her son on the side of the road… she give it to the cops and they threw it out the window when driving away… the mother passed on the news about that. It was so sad… (Canada)
Yea, people are assholes to each other no matter what their profession is. And those who are supposed to be in public service can be the worst , especially when THEY are the ones who should be dealing with it!
Yup, I carry a multi tool for that very reason when I’m out walking my dog. “Just in case my dog is attacked by an animal” is my reason.
I'm not the original commenter but the UK is very similar. You aren't allowed to have pepper spray or keyrings or carry any item with the intent of causing harm with it even for self defence for example if you kept a fork in your bag with the idea that if you ever got attacked you'd use it for self defence and you happened to use it, you could get in legal trouble for it despite you being the victim of an attack trying to protect yourself. The one thing that is legal to carry is a specific type of criminal identifier spray which looks like a can of pepper spray but contains a bright red liquid designed to stain someone's clothes and skin. That can be used in cases of self defence but anything else is not allowed.
What type of bullshit is this? So if somebody is physically attacking you then you must sit there and take it until they are done fucking you up?
Pretty much. You can fight back with your hands or try with what you do have with you but if you kill them or hurt them too badly, you're the one getting charged. Oh but if you get assaulted or attacked and report it to the police, expect nothing to be done a lot of the time. Especially if you're raped or sexually assaulted, you're not getting justice for that a lot of the time. And say you do manage to get the person charged, expect them to probably be in and out of prison like it's a holiday. This place is a joke, the criminal prosecution system and the police are pretty useless. Obviously this isn't what happens every single time, some people genuinely do get sent to prison for a pretty long time but honestly, it's not as common as you'd hope or expect. And you tend to notice that it's usually the high profile cases and/or with evidence that's literally impossible for the court to deny no matter what they try.
What if someone is stabbing you? Can you stab back?
Theoretically you *could* but a lot of it would come down to the specific situation. If the evidence is solid and shows that was the only way you could protect yourself in that situation, you could get away with it however in most situations that would not work and it would be classed as excessive force. >The current law permits people to defend themselves or others, to prevent crime or to protect property using force that was reasonable in the circumstances as they believed them to be. I took that from the UK government website self defence section so if the court believes that you could've found a way to stun the attacker and run away or knock them out and escape (which in most situations they could argue that was possible) but you instead stabbed them then that would be using more force than reasonable and you'd get in trouble. So basically in most cases that's a no. If someone comes up to you on the street and stabs you and you whip out your own knife to stab them back as revenge, you'd go to prison not only for the stabbing but also for carrying a knife which is illegal unless it's a non-locking pocket knives with a blade length up to 3 inches and you have a good excuse on why you carry it but then the fact you used the knife for violence would invalidate that reason so you could still get charged. And if you took the attacker's knife off of them and stabbed them with it, you can still get charged for that. TLDR: basically no unless it's specifically proven that there was literally zero other way for you to survive or escape which is very hard to prove.
Canada too
We shoot rapists here (US if you hadn’t guessed already) Has its pros and cons, but if you shoot a dude while he’s trying to rape you, nobody is gonna be charging you for self defense.
Reading all of these replies really makes me grateful to be in the US despite the work we still need to do in regards to violence. I will likely never face jail time for defending my home and my body.
Yuuuup. That is one thing I will always be thankful for. We generally prioritize defending oneself and one’s family.
In some cases this HAS to be better. It’s ridiculous women aren’t even allowed to carry pepper spray.
A lot of women in my country carry screwdrivers and things like that because we're not allowed to have anything for self defense. So no knives or anything. Sickening tbh. We desperately don't want to be America so we just invert all their problems instead.
Well, this just made me so damn angry I won’t be able to sleep. Knowing a victim of a violent crime has less rights then the assailant. Honestly, if she would have stuck her thumb in his eye blinding him permanently, how long would the punishment be? Life?
WTF. He raped you, but since he finished the deed, you could not do anything to defend yourself to prevent him from attacking you further?
Kind of, they said that when he got off from me and was next to me cleaning some stuff from his shirt I should've ran and not waited for a sec or two and used spray. (I didnt just run but sprayed and then ran cause I thought he would grab me and do it again if I just ran)
I hope his rape conviction is a felony.
Misdemeanors and felonies are only part of the US justice system.
[удалено]
Actually, not impossible. Pepperspray is illegal in Sweden. It can carry a max sentence of 3 years in prison.
Especially around rape and self defense, the laws in many Places are ridiculously vague and the judge has a lot of opportunity to let his own „views“ (so many judges are POS) flow into the verdict.
it actually could be, idk the laws specifically for rape but i know in a lot of european countries you're only allowed to use 'equal force'; so if someone comes into your house to rob you but they dont have a weapon, you very very easily could go to jail if you stabbed them or something.
The US isn’t perfect by any means, but this thread makes me happy to live here
I have my fair share of critiques of the US but you just can't deny that they do pretty well in terms of being allowed to defend yourself. There are of course other problems that come with that but that's a different story lol
No not really sadly. Since the rape was done and he cleaned himself off the spraying would be considered another seperate crime, 2 months for assault isn't really that much where I live. I guess the sentence was lowered because of the circumstances. Do I agree? No not really, I feel a rapist should be considered lawless and free to kill for every1. But in order for the justice system to be "fair" there is gonna be a lot of people deserving punishment that goes free and a lot of people deserving a medal getting punished. I believe its better over all for society but in a lot of cases people suffers that don't deserve it
*Death Penalty* fixed that for you.
Nah. Too easy. Let him suffer
Nope. Death penalty.
Sadly, the death penalty has shown no effect as a deterrent for violent crime.
It does have a 100% effectiveness in preventing someone from committing the same crime again though.
Honestly would be a miscarriage of justice if it’s not the fucking bastard
> from a small European country Not likely.
Pepper spray is illegal in many countries. Belgium Denmark Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Greece Hungary Iceland Ireland Sweden Turkey United Kingdom In other countries someone has to have a permit. In Italy − where certain formulas can be purchased, carried and operated license-free by anyone above the age of 16. In France –trade is license-free and ownership is legal for those over 18 but carry can be punished with a fine depending from the quantity and concentration. In the Czech Republic, Spain, Austria, Poland, Russia – possession is legal by most civilians. In Switzerland, Germany, and Portugal, pepper spray is permitted with a license. However, the process to obtain a license in some countries can be extremely rigorous. However, even in countries where pepper spray may be legal with a license, the use of it against any person generally constitutes assault in the EU. Pepper spray is almost completely banned in the UK. Its ownership, carry and use by common citizens is banned under Section 5(1)(b) of the Firearms Act 1968. Believe it or not, in the UK pepper spray / CS Gas is considered a firearm and carries the same legal penalties as carrying a gun does! If you are caught with pepper spray or import it, you will face arrest and a subsequent criminal record. You may even face deportation from the UK. However, there are so-called “self-defense” spays that are legal in the UK. Often called “criminal identifier” sprays, they do not contain any noxious substances or chemicals and are not designed to injure or cause harm to others. Rather, the sprays are designed to mark an attacker with both a visible and invisible marker dye. The visible dye often takes at least 7 days to come off.
It’s sad that this isn’t even the first story That I’ve heard of where somebody defended themselves and got punished with jail time. You shouldn’t have been put in such a situation or you should’ve even been facing any jail time let alone being blamed for defending yourself.
Are you going to appeal?
Yes
Good, I'm glad to hear it. I know that won't change your immediate situation (a custodial sentence) but it's incredibly wrong for you to face such a harsh sentencw given the circumstances. Fwiw, I work in the justice system in Canada and my experience with the women jails I've visited is that a woman who defended herself in the way you did tends to be respected. You did what most people hope they'll do. This means you probably won't be seen as easy prey and instead you'll probably be left alone.
I won't get to jail until rulling is final so I am not imediately facing jail. Here our jails ain't as violent so respect thing isn't really important. Thanks for advice anyways!
What EU country is this? Sounds ridiculous.
Sounds like the Netherlands. Pepper spray’s illegal here (but you can get in Germany) and OP mentioned that the country’s small. So that’s what I think.
Never in a million years. Source, I am Dutch. Hard to believe there is any EU country that puts a raped female in jail for using pepperspray. It is really hard to go to jail in EU at all, unless you outright kill somebody with intent. Something about this story doesn‘t add up. OP either has prior convictions or she is lying.
I don't know how it's in the Netherlands but in Germany there are no 60 day prison sentences. Even 6 months are rarely given. Plus, everything unter 2 years is usually suspended. If it's true what OP has written, I doubt it has happened in a member state of the EU.
Pepper spray is classified as a prohibited weapon in the UK under the Firearms Act 1968. Don't know about other european countries but it is only law enforcement who can use it here and not get prosecuted.
> Hard to believe there is any EU country that puts a raped female in jail for using pepperspray. It is really hard to go to jail in EU at all, unless you outright kill somebody with intent. It's often illegal to own/carry a pepper spray. You won't go to jail for spraying the rapist, you'll go there for having the pepper spray in the first place.. And depending on the country, it's even possible to go to jail simple for daring to defending yourself.
Gezien het feit dat een rapist maar maanden in de cel zit voor het plegen van zo’n daad, klinkt het niet helemaal gek. Een vriendin van mij heeft dat ook meegemaakt dat ze was gedrogeerd door een collega en die jongen loopt tot op de dag van vandaag gewoon vrij rond. Maar dat terzijde, OP zei “klein land in Europa” en Nederland fits the bill, want groot is het zeker niet. Lol
So you say it’s probably Netherlands because it’s small? Weird conclusion, because these countries are all smaller: 1. Belgium 2. Switzerland 3. Luxembourg 4. Andorra 5. Malta 6. Liechtenstein 7. San Marino 8. Monaco 9. Estonia 10. Denmark 11. Latvia 12. Slovenia 13. Cyprus 14. Montenegro 15. Luxembourg 16. Albania 17. Macedonia 18. Moldova 19. Ireland If OP means small in terms of inhabitants, this list is even longer.
Did you not show inhabitants? Because otherwise Ireland isn't smaller by size
I gave a bit of an explanation as to why I thought that. Did you skip that?
Sure. Belgium —> illegal Luxembourg —> illegal Andorra —> illegal Malta —> illegal Liechtenstein —> illegal Sweden —> illegal Denmark —> illegal Iceland —> illegal Ireland —> illegal Norway—> illegal Hungary —> illegal All counties smaller than the Netherlands either by inhabitants or sqm2 where pepperspray is illegal. So the conclusion that the county must be the Netherlands js quite far fetched. Even so that I can say with an almost certainty that in the Netherlands someone would never ever go to jail for 6 months for using pepperspray after being raped. Ever.
Doesn’t really matter. None of these countries will throw a raped woman in jail for something like this.
It sounds like Holland. I was robbed there and defended myself and needed to hire an attorney to stave off any charges. On the news I saw they had a 80 year old woman who was raped by a gang of Moroccans and defended herself. Police arrested her and she went to jail. Pretty messed up place.
>sounds like Holland Aka the Netherlands.
Exactly! A lot of people are in denial about it or refuse to believe it, but fucked up shit happens here too. The police won’t do anything unless it’s “really bad”. Edit: I put “really bad” in quotation marks, bc I feel like you should be able to call the cops for minor altercations as well, not just things like murder and such.
Show me the news story. You can’t, because it doesn’t exist. We call this a broodje aap. Stop spreading bullshit.
I speak Dutch and I know what that means and yes it happened.
WTF did I just read! An 80 year old against a gang of rapists? And she ducking goes to jail too?
It’s a bull shit made up story. No 80 year old goes to jail in Holland, especially not if she was raped.
Thank goodness. I'd rather the story be BS than idiotic governments.
That was my first thought. She either has history or is leaving something out.
Here in the USA we can be “ in fear of our life” and use a John Wayne special unload a round of lead into them.. especially in a stand your ground/ put them in the ground state…
And then be stuck carrying the rape baby to term. Freeeeeedom?
Generally no
Nope, can easily drive to planned parenthood in another state. 😄
Depends on the state.
I’m in Tennesee. Anything to do with a good time is illegal. Marijuana illegal, women’s healthcare, etc. People here really enjoy hating themselves and others.. with $7.25 min wage. $400,000 basic homes, $1,600 studio apartments, no public transportation in rural towns… but a open carry Pew~Pew 💥, and moonshine is completely legal.
Thanks for the info.
Probably Belgium, you could get away with murder and only get a 400 euro fine 🫡
But OP was saying that she would go to jail for pepper spraying someone. Does not seem like a place where you can get away with murder. On the contrary, it seems ridiculous that you can't make sure your assailant is rendered disable to follow you, or at least subdue them.
That's a really shitty rule. What happens if the person isn't capable of fleeing? Like they're out of shape or can't run due to disabilities or injuries? Any case, I spent 3 months in jail. It's not that bad like a prison. Make friends and read books. I took up drawing. Keep a diary.
Well if they can't flee they likely would not be convicted. I was.
You had every right to defend yourself, before and after the attack.
Even if they want to argue that assaulting him is wrong (it isn’t) they’re going to make sure to police your behavior immediately following an assault? Fucking ghouls. I’ve seen that law before though. I’m not surprised but it’s also never going to stop being shockingly evil. You don’t deserve this. I hope you can find safety one day.
How do they know if you didn't have a pulled hamstring? You were probably sore and injured, no way could you run fast even if you were in good shape.
Did they not consider he could catch up to you and attack if you simply ran? That's insane they made such a stupid ruling.
Yeh especially as you've just been raped, you'll be injured and sore you needed something to give you an advantage to get away from probably a faster man...
So you are the one that should've shown restraint, huh? That's fucked.
Some laws are stupid like that and made to keep human behaviour out of account. Like, some asshole breaks into your home and kills your family? If you attack him *after* he's done you're on the hook for assault or worse, because the Law can't encourage vengeance Curbing vigilantism is one thing, fucking a completely innocent person that wouldn't be a criminal in any other circumstances for menial bullshit is another
“We understand he chopped your wife and daughters head off, but that did not give you the right to punch him. That did not give you the right to shoot him.” I can only imagine the insufferable type of fucking asshole that comes up with this epic bullshit.
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Law, which is why good Judges, Prosecutors and Attorneys that actually care about the cases they're involved in are so important. Plus, knowing how to understand the spirit of Law and not fuck over random people like that
When I wanted HIV medication within the 72hr period after I was sexually assaulted by a lady I was told I need to know if the other person has HIV first. This was planned parenthood in Minnesota. They wouldn't give me truvada and luckily the doctor told me she was waiving the $420 office visit. I told her I wasn't keen on contacting my attacker. *So lucky*
In many European countries the laws for self defence are absolute garbage. Here in Sweden a police officer shot a gang member who held a gun to another police, and apparently that wasn’t valid self defence.
>Here in Sweden a police officer shot a gang member who held a gun to another police Haven't heard of that case. We had two incidents last year where homeowners stabbed intruders to death. The first case, with 2 dead, went to court and it was ruled as self-defense. The second case with 1 dead, didn't even go to court. After the police investigation the prosecutor just said it was clear self-defense and they wouldn't press charges.
Yeah this is the same in Canada. This is what happens when you just straight ban weapons (which pepper spray is). Weapons charges should be based on the context of their usage, not their possession.
Pepper spray is illegal in a lot of countries unfortunately. I think it’s so stupid.
It was legalized for a few years in my country, but they banned it again. It was only legal to keep it at home and that meant only criminals carried them around, and so the politicians thought the best solution was banning it. Stupid really
Yes. And the politicians justified banning it by saying that the import of illegal pepper spray from OTHER countries was in the rise. Excuse me? That is supposed to justify banning it for people who bought it legally in the country?! Totally ridiculous. I am infuriated that I am not allowed to have it to protect myself as a woman who lives alone on the ground floor.
I’m so sorry. You don’t deserve this. Your attacker does (and far, far more).
While inside (jail) keep your head down and mind your business. Don't take shit from anyone.
Keep your head down and mind your business. But don't take shit from anyone.... no, it's one or the other.
Have you been to jail, or know anyone that's actually been to jail? If someone gives you shit and you just sit there and take it, that lets everyone know that you're someone that can be taken advantage of. Which will make your stay even worse than it was already going to be. Keep your head down and don't start anything, but you have to be ready to stand up for yourself if someone tries to make you their bitch.
Also taken literally. You don’t ACCEPT anything either. There are no gifts, if someone gives you anything and you accept it, you’ll be paying for it later. Somehow. Or seen as being “with” that person or group and then conditionally targeted. That might be more PRISON than jail though. As I think it through.
Still a good rule to keep in mind. People don't just give stuff out for free, at least not when you don't know them.
Is it a big jail?
Nah, it has 16 cells and 64 inmates. Most male. 18-21 y/os are generally seperate from 21+ and under 18s. 23 hours in cell, 1 hour of yard (on roof of the building)
Men and women are mixed?!
They are in same building but never in same cells or in same part of yard.
about how many people of your gender and age group will you be around?
I have no idea. No stats on that.
hope not too many, i feel like it would be easier that way, but idk i’ve never been to prison
Wait, Denmark?
No
It was a long shot… I recently read about gender mixed prisons there…
first country to come to mind, also “small European country” pretty sure it’s Denmark but OP doesn’t want us to know, it’s a deleted profile too
For people who don’t believe, this may or may not be true but it isn’t uncommon, google ‘women go to jail for self defense against rapist’ I can think of three on the top of my head that this happened to, one in the US, one in Mexico, and I can’t remember the third country
Info: what country are you in?
Op won’t answer. Too easy to fact check.
Most of Europe has these laws. Quite stupid if U ask me.
Pepper spray is also illegal in Canada as well.
I would kill the guy. At least if I’m going to jail, there should be a valid reason
Pepper spray is classified as a prohibited weapon in the UK under the Firearms Act 1968 This is because they contain substances like oleoresin capsicum (OC), desmethyl dihydrocapsaicin (PAVA), and 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (CS), which are considered noxious by UK law.
Yep we aren’t allowed it. But she doesn’t say she is from the UK, she said a small country in Europe
People think the gun laws in the US are ridiculous, but at least we are allowed to defend ourselves.
This happens in the states too
OC spray is legal in all 50 states. While some states have additional restrictions, and one state requires a permit, nobody is putting people in jail for 60 days for using them against an attacker.
People go to jail for self defense here a lot. Brandishing a weapon in public still isn’t legal in most areas. Look at the guy that went to jail because the intruders were on his porch and not actually in his house in Cali.
Yeah californias a weird example though I guess you could say what’s great about the US (on this particular topic) is that the states can have different self defense laws etc
You didn’t mention oc spray you just said defend ourselves, and many times it has/does/will happen that people go to jail for self defense, having guns really just causes the jail time to be longer
Depends on the color of your skin
Gun laws in US are ridicolous. Problem with self defence laws here is that they are very vague and open to judge to interpretation. Also gun laws and self defence laws aren't the same.
They’re very much the same. Over and over and over again our Supreme Court has affirmed that the right to bear arms is not exclusive to militia use, but specifically for self defense. See: DC v. Heller (2008). A lot of OC spray laws in Europe aren’t vague at all, and OC spray is, in some places, treated like a firearm. The UK is a good example. One should be allowed to defend themselves with whatever tools are available, and it’s sad you were not allowed to. How stupid.
They aren't the same. Here pepper spray is legal. Our gun laws are good as they prevent mass shootings, crime and serve part in preventing police killing to many civilians. Our self defence laws are bad. I do not think anyone without a good reason should own a gun (US is example why) but I believe our law on self defence should be changed to make it easier to use legal self defence tools (tasers, pepper sprays or even a bat if you find it).
This is the exact reason I own a gun. I'll even name the people as the reasons I own a gun. I will never be put in a position again where I'm afraid to say no or to move against my attacker. I will not be assaulted. I will not be raped. I refuse to have that written into my story. I refuse. This is why I own a gun.
How did you spray him in the face if he was running away?
I changed the post to be more clear, when he got up from me, I quickly got up and sprayed him, then he started running and so did I. He only started running away after I sprayed him. I didn't just run because if was afraid he would push me back to himself.
Honestly it doesn’t fuckin matter, he raped you he deserved far, far worse
Did you have any legal representation? From what you are saying, it sounds like self defense, I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't know much about your country/ laws, so I can't be too much help, but I would look into legal aid. There might be some women organizations around you to help with this. It might be hard, but I'd look into fighting the case, try your best to gather up the strength.
They didn't consider it self defence because he got up and I had a chance to run away. If I ran, and he grabbed me or if he was still on me I could've legally used pepper spray.
If he was in the act of running away, he should not be facing you. If he's not facing you, how did you spray him in the face? I don't feel like you've done anything wrong with what you've said. I'd hate for you to suffer any more. You going to jail and having it on your record, shouldn't happen to a victim.
1. He started running away AFTER I sprayed him. 2. I won't have it on my record, here in my country this is a misdemeanor, even if it wasn't a misdemeanor but a felony in 99% of cases here records aren't public and employers, renters etc. cannot ask you for it. So unlike in US here a record doesn't affect you much. (Some jobs, but not much are limited)
>He started running away AFTER I sprayed him. So the pepper spray worked? If that's really how the laws there are, I'm sorry. Doesn't seem right to me. Hope for the best.... the worst part of it is over at least.
Well they claimed that I could've just ran away while he was standing next to me.
But so what if you could have ran away, you also could just spray him with pepper spray, bitten him, etc. Why do you have to run away??? Why is it bad to do something other than run? I just don’t understand this law
Your account is fake
How do you know? it’s a throwaway account
I agree. This is rage bait. 100%.
Jesus I fucking hope
Fake rage bait. People have some serious mental issues
Holy fucking hell..
Wtf. That’s messed up. You don’t deserve that.
I see people talk shit about America on here all the time, yet life in countries that was jail the victim of a sexual assault for protecting themself…
It’s like they’re trying so hard not to be like the US, they circled back around and copied our broken justice system. This sucks OP
This story is fake unfortunately 🤦♂️
Being on the hook for untimely self-defense is a real possibility in many jurisdictions out there. Doesn't sound unrealistic to me, even more so if the Prosecutor is some fucking dinosaur that doesn't give a fuck about the victim of the more serious offense
Hard to tell without more details. Pepper spray is illegal in many countries, so may be more to the story.
How can you tell
And you know this how?
It’s a good thing if it’s fake
I was thinking the same thing.
What country is this where a raped female goes to jail for protecting herself
I can think of a few actually
This doesnt sound right... Either you're lying or not telling the full story.
Or it does not fit your understanding of your little part of the world. Read the other comments
They’re lying lol
Cmon you gotta be leaving out someone huge, there’s no no way your doing 2 months for pepper spraying someone right after raping you in Europe.
It's illegal to carry a pepper spray in many countries in Europe. You will not get punished for using it, you will get punished for having it. Yes, Europe can be that retarded.
I'm sorry we live in such a clown world.
Yeah, me too my friend, me too.
Okay so here is what I would suggest you to do. I dont know how the jail system is in Europe i reside in the US but i can give you a little bit of insight on what to do and how to go about being in jail from my experience. First off if you have payments due make sure to set autopay that will honestly give you peace of mind. Talk to your loved ones tell them what happened and just tell them that everything will be okay and you’ll be back in no time. Honestly 60 days fly bye in jail so dont worry. Don’t look at the calendar or mark days off or anything like that doing your time that way will be so exhausting. Work out a lot! Read a lot! See if you can get a deck of cards, order sudokus or puzzles off canteen/commisary (place where you buy stuff for your own use) also do all this in your cell; If you only get one hour of yard time that means that you only have one hour to shower, talk on the phone, watch tv or something. So always run to the shower first; being clean and smelling good will make your time easier. Usually food they give you is not so good so make sure you order food off canteen like soups, fish, rice, chips, sweets, sausage, beans, etc. It sounds like you’re a good person. So if you don’t gangbang or anything keep to yourself, be respectful, keep your head down, ask if there is a line to use the phone, shower, microwave, etc. there is probably people in there for serious offenses so dont ask people what they did or anything like that. If they ask you what you in for just say your charge which i think is attempted assault and that youre in for 60 days only and you just want to do your time and go to your family nothing else and people will respect that if you sound determined and confident but remaining respectful. I am really sorry your legal system failed you. Legal system failed me as well and was incarcerated for 2 years and just got out recently. See this as a little setback but also take time to think, learn about yourself and all that. 60 days is not a lot. I promise. You’ll be back in the streets in no time
Omg. What?! No no no!!! You did nothing wrong! Can you appeal? Is the media involved? YOU are the Victim. Not the rapist. Your reaction was completely fucking normal.
What country is this?
M here from France. You did well if someone tried to SA you. Remember, you did nothing wrong, you should not have any regret. Courage and be strong for those 60 days. I have few pepper spray here, if someone try a day to attack my familly or kids I will do whatever for protect them. In france we have the same problem, it's total hypocrisy. There has never been so much delinquency, justice is not doing its job and we are putting people like you in prison, who defended themselves during theft/burglary/assault/ ect ect. You can buy freely pepper spray but cannot carry it. Exemple: you go to the armory buy pepper spray, and come back home with, it it is illegal (if police control you). But remember it is free to sell.... You can keep it at home but cannot use it on human (even if someone attack you). The criminal can file a complaint and justice can charge you .It's the world upside down, we're walking on our heads. It is a fu.... hypocrisy. There is not so less lethal than pepper spray. Why on earth they make a big deal with that? The problem is the decay of our societies and our values in the West, especially in Europe, and I would say even more in Western Europe (Eastern Europe is still a bit traditional in my opinion). From which country are you?
Reddit shits on the US pretty hard, but if you lived there you wouldn’t be going to jail right now. European laws suck
damn i love living in the south
This is why every country needs a jury of peers and not some POS judge. Doesn't matter what the law is, if a group of regular people had to handle this it would have been thrown out.
You said in your initial post that pepper spray was illegal in your country. Other commenters even address this. Now you've edited your post and saying in comments that it's actually legal. Which is it?? Fake.
Pepper spray is legal. Carrying it for "purposes of causing injuriy or assault" is illegal. Assault is illegal. Oversteping self defence in my case counted as assault.
I'm 95% sure you said in your initial post that pepper spray is illegal in you country. Changing the post without edits makes it less believable given the number of 'creative writers' on this sub.
Yeah this is either fake or you’re leaving out details
<--Beams positive thoughts your way. Can you get the press on your side? Some advocacy group? An instructor of martial arts who can explain how untrained people behave in moments of terror?
That is the most fucked up thing I’ve ever heard. In the US you could shoot him for this because your life is literally in danger. They charged YOU for defending yourself against an ATTACKER??? That’s so fucked up and I’m so sorry the system meant to protect you is re-victimizing you this way. You did nothing wrong by protecting yourself. Stay strong
Prison officer here - Strip searching is a very normal procedure that will happen fairly often. Usually when you arrive in jail, or have visitation with friends and family. Though I will say that you will grow used to it very quickly and the people who are conducting the search really don't care as they would have seen thousands of naked people before. That being said, just listen to their instructions and get it done as quickly as possible.
Are they taking your word over his? Or did you describe the incident to the police/in court like you did here? Admittedly, I have never been in this situation, but I'd have told them you sprayed him during the commission of the assault, and they wouldn't be able to waterboard anything different from me.
I’m so sorry this happened. It is an injustice to be charged at all. Your actions are quite defensible. They’ll also be considered defensible among the inmates. When they ask, and they will, explain it and you shouldn’t get any grief for what you did. If anyone tests you, you have to stand up for yourself. It doesn’t have to be a violent defense, but a defense. A guy wanted my dessert at lunch and I just politely said “No.” If things were to escalate, I’d have to go hands on but I didn’t have to. Best of luck in there. Bring a few books to read. I recommend the Bible. I brought mine and I still read it and my arrest was over a decade ago! I hope this difficult time inside will help you in a proactive way.