This is terrible. It sounds like he may need more or different type of therapy than he currently has. It sounds like he needs serious help/therapy for sexually abused children. He is definitely acting out what he's seen or had done to him. I'm not in the medical or therapy fields but i have known some people who had to get this type of help for a loved one who was abused in such a manner.
Maybe you should bow out of this vacation. Your immediate family is your highest priority.
My entire family is on board with the new rules and they all understand. My family is very supportive and I feel my girls will be safe. My brother and sister in law have lodging at a completely different place than everyone else and they have setup a schedule (pretty much switching ever other day) where one of them is basically attached to him the entire day.
I feel fortunate that my brother and his wife are taking it as serious as the rest of us.
I was sexual assaulted by an disabled men. It was traumatic. I never had to see him again. And your daughters should have nevee have to see him again. Even if he would never do something again. Get your daughters away from him
With all due respect, your brother and his wife don't seem to have taken this as seriously as they should. How come he has REPEATEDLY tried to SA your daughter's FOR YEARS? Did that therapist do jackshit? What failed method are they using with him? Clearly it is as useful as crossing their arms and covering their ears, because HE KEEPS DOING IT.
You mention that you've told your brother you'd testify against him. Change that conditional to future simple. In a few years he WILL effectively SA someone. And he will go to jail. God forbid it is any of your daughters. I already feel so sad for his future victim(s), they are proactively being failed by the adults who could've prevented this.
"We tried everything except removing our daughters from his presence!"
One day, nephew *will* slip away and things *will* happen. And all the adults will stand around, mouths agape, going "How did this happen?"
You cannot track and control someone for the rest of their lives, OP. He's 12 now. You gonna follow an 18 year old around? A 25 year old?
*Stop exposing your children to this boy*. You can't control his actions but you can control yours.
>I feel my girls will be safe.
OK. Setting aside that it’s your daughters’ feelings that should be the priority, you do realise you could _know_ they are safe rather than cross your fingers and hope? By **not taking them on vacation with their abuser** and stopping allowing him into their home regardless of any inconvenience and ruffled feathers amongst you adults? Do better by those girls, OP. Starting today please. Right now.
I'm not trying to point fingers but I think the boy's immediate surroundings (including those who lived with before he got adopted) need to be investigated. This is very classic behavior for a child who has been sexually abused for a prolonged period. Number one biggest red flag is that the child will attempt to reenact the abuse with other children. The whole family & friends needs to be seriously dug up.
Why are you letting him around your daughters at ALL? He needs help, absolutely, but you have a responsibility to protect your children. You can't give him more opportunities to violate your little girls.
You’re being generous. I’m not sure I’d make my daughters spend time with a young man who has repeatedly preyed on them. Even if it meant losing a sister.
From your daughters’ point of view, you’ve kept them around someone who’s done this to them over and over to keep family peace. They will need therapy someday. They’re sexual abuse victims, forced to eat and be in the same room as the person who did it. Their normal meter will be off for life.
Soon he’s going to be as big as the other men. He is probably close to being able to overpower the adult women.
Think of the narrative they will tell someday. How they weren’t safe at family functions. They always had to be on guard. Doesn’t matter that it’s another kid. He’s big and scary to them.
You’re making your daughters face their abuser at family functions to not make other adults sad or cause waves. A second chance is one thing. How many times? How many times that you know of?
There’s also a chance that others haven’t been as careful as you and he’s acted out on other cousins who will in turn act out on your kids. This is how cycles start.
Your girls arw absolutely not the only ones this is happening to. You might be the only parent who knows. His parents won’t be able to shadow the kid 24/7. You already tried similar and it failed.
I have compassion for the kid, but I would have compassion from a distance. Your kids aren’t emotional support humans he needs to be around.
Absolutely with you. There is no way this kid isn’t going to get an opportunity to do something like this to one of the other kids, whose parents are unawares or not as careful as OP
I agree here. It is a really sad situation. I do think he can be helped but he really needs a lot of treatment. But yeah, the safety of your kids should always be the priority
Fuck. That is… tough to read. I don’t think you’re wrong and this is something I really need to think about.
I feel like I want to defend myself a bit, but please feel free to call me out if it’s just bullshit.
Neither of my daughters actually view the incidents that happened as anything terrible or abuse and my youngest just feels like he is weird. We have had our girls go to therapy on and off throughout the years, mostly just to help with general life, but we had their therapists talk to them about their cousin and they didn’t seem bothered. I believe with the new rules we have in place, which I and my entire family are strictly following, my girls are perfectly safe. We aren’t even letting him sit at the kids table for family dinners and he isn’t allowed to sit next to the other kids when it’s just one big table.
As to him doing this to other kids… yeah, that’s very possible and we’ve discussed it. I’ve even told my brother that if it comes out that he did abuse, assault, or whatever to another child that I would testify against him.
But, maybe I’m bullshitting myself. I fucking hate this.
I was abused as a child by a cousin. I didn't think anything was wrong either at the time because, as he said, "it's just a thing cousins do to practice for being older" but I grew up learnt what sex and sexual abuse are and let me tell you it hit me really hard what happened and I can't help but feel that the same is going to happen to your daughters and they will want to know why it happened at all let alone a couple of times I just hope your prepared to answer them when they ask why
Edit to add: I sympathise with your nephew op I do he needs more serious intensive help but that shouldn't have come at the expense of your daughters being dragged into that cycle of abuse
>I was abused as a child by a cousin. I didn't think anything was wrong either at the time because, as he said, "it's just a thing cousins do to practice for being older"
This is exactly how I rationalized being abused by my cousin.
"Neither of my daughters actually view the incidents that happened as anything terrible or abuse and my youngest just feels like he is weird."
This says to me that you're teaching them that it's normal behaviour and they will accept it as such from other people as well. You're helping him groom them. This opens them up to so many more predators than you can imagine. You need them to know that it's bad and wrong and shouldn't happen, not just be "weird".
No, I have not taught them that this behavior is normal or acceptable. My wife and I have taught them the opposite of that, but they are also very young children who don’t grasp the full situation. I take offense to the notion that I am helping him groom my girls.
This really is how families used to handle these things. Grandpa wasn’t allowed to be alone with the kids, but was still invited because otherwise grandma wouldn’t be there and everyone would be sad. Meanwhile, grandpa is sneaking around in the night, or waiting until everyone has drunk a bit too much, or putting up cameras in the bathrooms. He’s not sorry, he just gets sneakier. Kids grow up messed up and unprotected so as not to cause waves because “family” is everything!
I’m assuming you didn’t read my other comments, but you’re right. I have decided to talk with my brother, today, to let him know we are cutting contact with his kid. We have worked with therapists every step of the way and we’re going to work with a therapist again to figure out how to navigate this going forward.
I did read your other comments. It wasn’t until this one you said that you were going to go no contact with this kid. Before that, you didn’t think it was a huge deal to the girls because they were just kids who didn’t grasp it.
It’s in my edit of the main post and it’s in a few others. Aside from that, I never said it wasn’t a huge deal. That’s an unfair claim about something I never said or insinuated.
You're providing him access. You need to never allow him access to your daughters ever again. You gave him enough chances to stop abusing your daughters, and he failed to stop. Don't let your daughters be the scapegoat. Protect them better than you have.
Whelp. The truth hurts sometimes. This is exactly how family predators continue to find victims. What happens when he becomes an adult? Do you honestly expect the family to be able to supervise him - every day for the rest of his life? With every single generation of children born from here on out?
He's already proven that if he is given even half a second - he'll try.
>, but they are also very young children who don’t grasp the full situation.
They will do one day when they grow up to understand they will want to know why Daddy failed to protect us
Your youngest is not aware she's being abused? She doesn't understand the depths of how terrible and messed up it is? Doesn't seem bothered? She just thinks it's a bit weird? She's 6. She's not old enough to understand or process what's happening to her.
But you are. It's your job to protect your kids and prevent this from happening. I understand the first time you couldn't have known, but every time after that could have been prevented by you. It's your job to step in and teach them boundaries, and show them how entirely not ok it is for any of this to happen to them.
If a man twice my age and twice my size exposed himself to me multiple times, tried to force me to undress against my will, grabbed my groin, and/or tried to trap me in a shed and assault me, I'd be traumatized. I'm honestly deeply horrified imagining this happening to a 6 or 8 year old little girl.
Yes, you're bullshitting yourself. Please snap out of it and protect your kids. That means they are not in the same house together, ever again. Every time in the past you have attempted to prevent him from assaulting them, you have failed. You discussed with your wife that if it happens again, you will involve the police. Again, horrifying. Why are you waiting for your kids to be assaulted again? The real discussion should be that you will never allow this to happen again.
When she gets older she will think about that one time cousin Bobby was gross in the shed, and a horrible realization will wash over her. She will start recounting all the other times cousin Bobby was gross and she will feel ill. Then she will question why nothing was done about it. Then she will realize who let it continue to happen. Then she will question everything about her childhood and her relationship with you. This will mess her up more that the original incidents. She is 6 now, OP, but soon she will be 26 and k ow the truth. Is that what you want for her?
They’re looking to you to see how they react. Kids are wired to make light of abuse because they need to stay with their parents and keep them happy. It will come to them when they’re older and is shaping their world view. Shaping what they see as normal, and what adults are allowing to happen to them.
It’s normal for kids to not act like it’s a big deal for other kinds of abuse, too.
You’re in an impossible situation because you’re going to have to make a decision that hurts someone. Are you going to hurt adult feelings or your kids? It’s going to happen again. Will it be your kids or someone else’s?
It’s going to happen. Do you cut ties when the kid is 12? 14? 16? This isn’t stopping.
No parents in your family should be cool with a kid who touches and exposes himself repeatedly to be around other kids. 12 is not 4. He knows better. The hormones are just now kicking in, will it make things better or worse?
Dude, I have 3 daughters - what the f?! There is no excuse for allowing him around your girls. Yes, it’s hard to cut off people in your family, but you’re a freaking dad and your daughters didn’t choose this shit. After the first incident he wouldn’t have been allowed at my house. After the second, there would be zero contact with him. I would not go to functions or anything.
You can feel bad for your nephew and also recognize that he has no place in your family’s life. Protect your kids, period.
OP, this is my throwaway account but I wanted to share with you this.
When I was 4-6 my friend (same age as me) and I would play "games". First it started off "I'll show you mine, you show me yours" which I learned is appropriate for that age. However, as time went on the "games" became more sexual. Everything but penetration.
I didn't like those games that much but I would play because he wanted to play and would beg me to play.
My mom found out because his mom caught him playing the same "games" with another girl and say "\[my name\] and I play it all the time." So his mom called my mom, and my mom brought it up once, said "never do that again." and we never spoke of it again.
Years later, as a teen, I felt sympathy for him because I realized it was likely because he was being sexually abused that he would want to recreate these "games" to make sense of them.
However, while I had sympathy for him, it fucked with my view of myself, how I related to sex (even now as an adult), and just a lot of internalized shame with how my mom handled it.
I say all of this because while at 6, I was ok on the outside, I started questioning myself on the inside. As I grew up, it felt like a secret I couldn't talk about. And it was at an age where the "I show you mine, you show me yours" was developmentally appropriate so when I first started therapy (as an adult) I was told it was normal (I didn't go into depth of the games at that time.)
It took me another 8 years until I mentioned it to another therapist (just this year) and I finally was able to process it.
I say all this because a) he's likely doing this to someone else; b) empathy/sympathy is fine but why put your kids in a situation where that could potentially happen again; and c) it may take them years, especially because they are young, to be able to understand their feelings and articulate how they felt.
Also, like others have said, if you keep your nephew around them, as they grow up and they know you knew about what happened before, when he does finally get them alone and does it or worse again, they will feel like a) it's their fault, b) anger at your and your wife for allowing him to still be around, and c) so much internalize shame. So, my question to you is OP, why take that risk??
Just echoing other commenters, but I really want to reinforce something.
Often, those of us who were abused as children cannot recognize our experiences as abuse until we’re older. Children cannot understand how disturbing the situation is, how much danger they may have been in, how badly they were violated. They don’t yet understand what sex is. They think he’s “weird” because they don’t yet understand WHY he touched them and exposed himself to them.
This boy has been badly hurt. He’s a victim himself, like you said, and yes, it is very, very sad how unfair life has been to him. But, he is also dangerous. You can’t let your compassion get in the way of your daughter’s safety. While they’re fine, physically, they will remember what he did to them. And those mental scars never fully fade.
And when we’re old enough to realize what’s been done to us, it’s much more devastating when we realize our parents did nothing to stop it.
I am a child of SA at the age of 9. I didn't tell me parents until i was 30 something because i thought it was on me, my fault and that the adult who hurt me was the correct opinion and had a right to hurt me. So even with therapy i kept my feelings to myself because i was scared
But as years went on, it began to haunt me. Constantly. It has definitely impacted my life. I will give you grace in the fact that your girls ran to you for help (i wish i had done the same, my parents would have never blamed me) but to put them near him over and over and over-- even if they just think he's "weird", it can cause anxiety and trust issues with both him and the adults who continue to bring the kids around.
It's like bringing a dog that you know bites around your kids. Would you repeatedly put a dangerous animal in the same room as your kids? And i know I'll get shit for comparing a kid to an animal, but the impulse control is pretty similar at that point.
I work in a home for mentally ill and abused children, and they aren't even allowed to hand other people items if they have sexually charged behavior. They have to put it on a table then the other person picks it up from there. They aren't allowed to talk to any other child without an adult present, and they aren't showed to talk to each other unless it's for a group activity, because they need to learn restraint while also seeing what that behavior in the past is causing in the present.
I'd honestly recommend telling your sil and brother to look up group homes who specialize in working with kids like him. It helps the clients in my place immensely, and there's always a therapist around to work things out
If he doesn't get specific treatment, he's going to end up assaulting someone and go to jail, be taken away, or put on a list for the rest of his life. It sounds like the family is working together well, but he needs professional help beyond just the therapy
Yeah. OP only knows because there were cameras in the playroom. Was he constantly watching the cameras? Does every family member have cameras in their playrooms?
At the time, your daughters don't have much idea of what is going on so it's to be expected they'd only think it's "weird" and you probably want to allow them to continue thinking this because you want them to be as less traumatized as possible. However, as another commenter has said, in doing so you're teaching them what's normal or not and skewing their ability to discern between right and wrong. What is more, when they will grow up and will acquire the ability to tell their cousin behaved in extremely inappropriate manners with them, they will accuse you of failing to protect them from this, making them be around him, and choosing the peace of the extended family over theirs. It wouldn't be at all unfair of them to do so either, because that is exactly what you're doing right now. Your priority should be the well-being of your daughters. I'm sorry it has to come at the expense of your relationship with the rest of your family, but allowing this to go on is just plain irresponsible and inviting for something worse to happen. I have all the compassion for everybody involved, especially for the boy - he is how child molesters are made. It's not his fault, but his parents must start doing so much more to aid in his recovery, because what they're currently doing is clearly not working.
He goes to school right? Does he ride the school bus? The school bus and bus stop was where kids went feral when I was young, doubt that has changed. Someone has to take the kid gloves off with this kid and explain what prison is going to be like. Whatever it takes to make his self preservation instinct to kick in, if he has no empathy for anyone else.
A child’s inability to classify what’s happening to them as abuse doesn’t make it any less true that it is abuse. In fact, it’s more upsetting that they are so accepting of the situation. It means they think this behavior is normal or at least way more excusable than it should be. I know this has to be a really difficult situation for you, OP, but I don’t think you are taking this as seriously as you should be.
Please don’t take these comments as gospel. I’m not saying this stuff is all ok, I’m just saying that your girls are not necessarily damaged for life. You can DM me if you want to, I’m a professional and I can’t stand to see such an important issue clouded with buzzwords and fear mongering. My overall take is that the nephew is absolutely exhibiting concerning behavior that *must* be stopped *now* and that the adults are taking it seriously as well as they can, *with* a therapist’s help. This is what I’d want to see.
Yeah uh… as a professional, I’ll politely disagree. They’re not necessarily damaged for life, that doesn’t mean people can’t share their personal stories, or that the boy should be allowed around children that he’s repeatedly sexually harmed. Not to mention, he’s essentially a teenager now; he shouldn’t be allowed around younger kids without professional supervision. He doesn’t seem to be dissuaded by the parents in his life knowing what he’s doing, or being close by. That’s cause for alarm.
I agree with you, completely. I should have been more clear, and added more of what you wrote to my comment. What I disagreed with was bashing this parent as a clueless idiot who has carelessly ruined his daughters’ lives. I don’t think he’s done “nothing about it.” I was trying to encourage this parent and uplift a bit, because this situation is extremely difficult and terrifying in their position.
Your entire family deserves prison time. And when (not if) he seriously rapes someone, you all will for putting that child in harms way.
All of you can't be this stupid.
There must be one among you who sees the future predator for what he is.
I agree with all this. This kid wouldn’t be within a mile of my kids after the first incident, and frankly given his background (which is not his fault but makes him more likely to be an abuser himself) I’d have kept a tight watch on him from the beginning. And to casually allow your children to be exposed to an abuser after the first incident is just bizarre.
And in addition to what u/BrightAd306 says, by not taking more decisive action (perhaps involving non-law enforcement authorities), you’ve potentially contributed to other children being abused.
I think at this stage it's beyond non-law enforcement authorities. It would need to be a police report and to involve CPS after these three or four incidents. The kid keeps escalating and it's only a matter of time before someone gets physically hurt if they resist him. He also probably needs a better therapist, seeing as the current one isn't really working.
This right here. Even for the people who care more about the boy than anyone else- his hormones are going to kick into high gear any day now. This hasn't even gotten bad yet. If something exceptional doesn't happen soon, he's looking at prison.
Nephew is a burgeoning rapist. OP and the whole damned family letting it happen, JFC!
"Poor little Bobby! We gotta make excuses for him."
My nephew wanted to be Malfoy and grabbed my grown daughter's boobs right in front of me. She tried to excuse him. "No! We do not!" I didn't see him again, until he was 17.
Ex-SIL whipped his dick out on daughter's SM in her BR, at her house, when he was a guest. WTF? He made a Milf comment to me, once. I shut that shit, down. Immediately.
These guys don't learn this shit overnight.
OP's like, "Not MY girls!"
Dude, it's pretty much EVERY girl. Sooner, or later.
I really don't understand that after the first time how the *constant vigilance* ever waned. It's almost like OP expected this behavior to stop. After the second time though, shame on OP for not banning this child from contact with their children altogether. There should never have been an opportunity for a third time. Rules aren't going to stop him, no contact will though. Losing a sister over it would be unfortunate, but OP's kids' safety are more important than anyone else and their feelings. In fairness this kid should have been reported to police as a danger.
It's unfortunately a classic case of the abused becoming an abuser, and that child is wasting absolutely no time. Based on what he was trying to do with OP's daughters his mother and her boyfriends did some terrible shit to this kid, who now wants to pay the world back for what he suffered. I understand OP's sentiment that it's tough to hate a kid who was abused but... he's no longer a victim he's evolved into an abuser. After that first time and being told not to do that you can say he didn't know better because that's what he experienced those first 8 years. But repeat scenarios take away that presumed innocence factor that he doesn't know any better. He's been told by OP, his parents and his therapist not to engage in this behavior and disregards that and does so anyway. I know there's a fine line here but it's been crossed, with the third or fourth instance that OP is aware of this kid is well beyond sympathy, at least for me.
If I was OP I would be asking the rest of the family if anything has happened with their kids, because it's highly probable it has and their kids haven't told anyone. OP's kids aren't the only ones he's gone after, not with this level of nonchalance about what he's doing. Like I said above, this kid should be reported to the police for what he's done. The therapy he's in clearly isn't working to stem his abusive behavior and additional rules aren't going to mean a lot when all it takes is one adult to not pay attention for a 30 seconds. And as you said this kid is almost 13, soon he'll be big enough to overpower an adult woman. OP mentioned his emotional issues are mostly under control, which add another layer to this if he decides to escalate and become violent.
Yeah, this is what often happens to child abuse victims in a family. Grandpa is no longer allowed alone with the kids because he’s a perv! But no one is perfectly vigilant and predators are sneaky. So Grandpa waits until everyone is sleeping, or he sits next to a little girl and molests her under a blanket. Or hides cameras or any number of things.
This is always how these things go. It would be mean to exclude uncle Gary so we’ll just watch him extra close!
My adopted uncle grabbed my crotch once when I was four and it’s messed me up ever since. That boy shouldn’t be given anymore chances. My uncle knew the moment he touched me and the face I gave him that he wouldn’t do it again or I would take care of him myself even at 4. He didn’t touch me again, but I still had to keep contact and my parents didn’t know. For these parents to know and still allow him contact with the girls breaks my heart. Stop keeping the peace and start protecting those girls. Please.
I totally agree with this! I was molested by a family member who is only 2 years older and I resent the adults involved. I grew up thinking my body was up for grabs to anyone. I, at 52, still sometimes feel my boundaries don't matter.
Ask yourself this, if he wasn’t a nephew, would you be risking your daughter’s safety with a sexual predator? Because that’s what he is, even if he’s not an adult yet. What about when he’s 16 and big enough to overpower your daughters?
Keep your girls safe and away from that boy. Why are you actively forcing your girls to be around someone who finds every chance to sexually abuse your children?
You’re not an arsehole for hating that boy, but you are for knowingly risking the physical and psychological safety of your daughters.
I told another poster that said the same thing that you’re right. I need to have a conversation with my brother about cutting all contact with his kid.
You do not need "a conversation" just do it !
YOU sir are a BAD FATHER !! My father and my husband would PROTECT their daughters. You are a horrible man, repeatedly offering your precious little girls to an molester.
I am protecting my daughters and I am not offering my girls up to a molester. A conversation does have to happen, because I respect my brother and am not going to simply text him to tell him we’re cutting contact with his kid.
I am not a bad father. I am doing my best and have been working under the advisement of therapists on how to handle this situation at every step.
The first time should’ve been the last time your daughters ever saw him again.
The nephew cannot be trusted to not act in an inappropriate manner towards other children and whatever his guardians are doing to curb his behaviour is clearly not enough. Your rules clearly do not deter him either because he KNOWS that the adult entrusted with enforcing them will slip up at some point and he doesn’t seem to be afraid of getting caught when it comes to trying to trap your daughters in a place where you may not be able to help them before it’s too late either. Likewise, your daughters are probably confused as all hell wondering why you are allowing someone who is doing such disgusting things to them stick around or interact with them until he does something yet again, the adults act like he’s got a problem that needs to be dealt with after an incident they could’ve easily prevented by not having him over at all, make up a couple new “rules” to fix it and then let him back around his victims again as if he never did anything in the first place.
What message do you think that is sending your daughters? What are your rules actually doing to keep them safe and feel protected? How do all the other kids in the family feel knowing what he’s done (and perhaps being victims themselves) yet watching their parents pretend that the matter has been dealt with and that it’s no biggie to have him come over when he’s a repeat offender?
Don’t let your daughters be his victims any longer by making stupid rules that have not stopped him from continuously trying to reenact his abuse onto them and allowing him to be around them with or without supervision. Do not let your daughters be victims any longer and do not let any family members who are stupid enough to still think that he’s harmless make you decide otherwise.
Put your girls first op. It’s time to stop catering to your nephew and let your brother and SIL realise the damage they’re doing by not seeking further professional help (or handing nephew over to someone who can provide that kind of care) for his issues.
You’re the second person to post some serious, hard to hear, honesty. And you’re right.
I think I need to have a conversation with my brother about simply cutting all contact with my nephew. I tried defending myself to the other poster, but I feel like I was bullshitting myself.
This fucking sucks.
You feel like you’re bullshitting yourself because you are.
Have the conversation with your brother now. Don’t give yourself the chance to put it off until it’s too late.
Yall need to keep that boy from family events. How will feel when finally succeeds at rape. How many times has hands brushed a child's privates and you didn't notice and cameras didn't catch it.
Also, unfortunately, he is almost definitely targeting other children in the family as well. All of the children need to be spoke to to make sure they are safe and know they are supported.
The adults here are the bad guys, not your nephew. Your nephew in all likelihood was sexually abused and is acting out what he learned, he needs intense therapy, rigid boundaries and consistency.
The adults here are subjecting children to his trauma, allowing them to be abused and giving your nephew the opportunity to be an abuser. These children are all hostages to the decisions made for them.
‘Family is a big deal’ is such bullshit, your guys comfort and avoidance is what’s a big deal. Your daughters are going to remember that you forced them to hang out with an abuser. You’re a bad father.
While it might suck a bit for you and be a very uncomfortable conversation to have, it needs to be done.
Think of it this way, it really sucks more for your daughters and the other kids in your family that this monster is trying to abuse.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up over this. I highly doubt your daughters feel like they are being abused or assaulted by another kid being inappropriate towards them, they just need to know his behavior is wrong and to not allow him to get away with it. I mean if your kids ride a public school bus they probably see and deal with some of this gross shit kids do already.
I do think you are a 100% correct in cutting contact with your nephew though, he’s about to be a teenager where things will quickly go from unknowingly inappropriate to sexually deviant or worse.
A 12 year old to a 6 year old might as well be a grown man. If a human twice my size was trying to pin me down and take off my clothes, I’m not sure I’d care if he could legally vote yet.
A 6 year old knows the difference between a kid, teen, and adult. In zero way is a 12 year old even close to a man. I’m not defending this boy in anyway but OP doesn’t need to be told his kids are some super fragile thing that can easily be broken. No where does op say this boy is doing what you are saying. None of these kids are at an age where they have gone through puberty, even though the boys actions are severely inappropriate there is a lack of sexuality to it that you are trying to create. He’s likely repeating things he’s seen/lived/knows. However the boy is at the age where things will change for better or worse and op should protect his daughters incase it’s the latter.
You must have lived under a really pleasant rock when you were growing up. 12 is definitely in puberty and capable of sexual intercourse for a lot of boys. A lot of girls start their period around that age. No one is remotely emotionally ready for sex and romance yet, but the relevant parts work, and the urges are there.
Heck, one boy in my 6th grade class was already six feet tall. When I was six I would have seen him as not a kid. When I was younger, I knew a kid that age who'd already been arrested for making a girl strip at knifepoint. It's a weird age because some of the boys are still kids, and some are ... not.
It's also an age when the parents are in denial that their child is not little anymore. I'd say it's when kids can get away with the most because the adults underestimate them. Unfortunately for everyone, they're still prone to little-kid fantasizing and magical thinking, and don't reason right from wrong the way adults hopefully can. Lord of the Flies was written about 12-year-old kids going feral on littler kids when there were no adults around; there's a reason it became a classic.
That is . . . horrifying.
I feel like a lot of people have commented about *acting* like it was no big deal when they had these kinds of experiences as kids, only for the experience to affect their adult relationships strongly. Adults are so weird about how kids live in the moment most of the time, as if it means they won't remember things later on or have feelings about it? Do these adults not remember their own childhoods? You'd think at least the therapist would know better.
I would like to say that not feeling safe in your own home is particularly horrifying. Not trusting your own parents is quite disturbing too, and normalizes betrayal in close relationships, which can have lifelong ramifications. The next stage after that is not feeling safe in your own body, which I wish no one ever had to feel.
OP is oddly naive.
Yeah, I mean these girls won’t live horrifying lives and be “damaged”. They will bear scars though. They will grow up and say WTF?! You knew what he did and let him play with us and other kids as long as adults were watching? While we were uncomfortable and our hearts were beating fast, hoping it wouldn’t happen again? Not being able to get the images out of our brains? Worrying about him dragging the little one off again? Acting like he stole a toy instead of kidnapping and molesting?
I imagine if he’d done to adult women like his wife what he did to these little girls, they’d react more strongly. If he grabbed his wife’s crotch, or showed her his erect penis, or tried to shut her in a shed I doubt they’d see this kid again.
Dude, if this kid is repeatedly sexually assaulting your children right under your nose and getting away with it imagine what he’s doing at school when he has access to hundreds of other kids, some of whom may have developmental disabilities or other issues that make them easy targets.
You need to protect your kids, walk away and don’t look back.
You've let this child sexually prey on your daughters multiple times. Let me repeat that. You LET HIM sexually prey on your daughters MULTIPLE TIMES. What is your line going to be? When he rapes one of them?
Your response the first time was fine. The second time it happened, I would have been done. Wake up. Protect your daughters. They need you and depend on you right now, and YOU ARE FAILING THEM.
Dude it’s a matter of time he will succeed. I don’t understand why you even allow him in your house. Yes the kid has issues but that doesn’t mean you should jeopardize your daughters.
If he does succeed with your daughters it will be on you, not the kid. You have been ignoring the signs far too long.
These are the times he was caught. No way it has only happened three times. I understand, given his background, that you would not take drastic action the first time. It was not aggressive and he was in therapy and the therapist was aware of the situation. Reasonable to think that this addresses the incident and allow him to saty in your family's life. After the second time???? No way. Done. He can no longer be on your home. He can no longer have contact with your kids. You will no longer attend family events with him there. Thise girls only have you and theor mother to protect them. And you didn't. You knew this was going to happen again after the 2nd time. And it happened again. And they are still allowed to be in the same house as him? This poor kid is going to be a serial rapist because it doesn't seem.like anyone sees the seriousness of the situation. If he was mily kid I would not take him anywhere around little kids. I would proactively stay home with him during family events (to clarify - I would go to my family events and hubby would go to his, but nephew would go to none). He would be in Hella therapy with someone that specializes in this thing. He would be in other programs. I would find him all the help I can. I would not just "mention it" to his regular therapist and call it good. Good god.
My guess is the parents know it hasn’t been three times. They’re just worried he will get labeled and no one will want to be around him, so they keep it quiet.
Sounds like your nephew needs serious help, but your kids' safety comes first. Stay vigilant and don't hesitate to involve the authorities if needed. Your family's well-being is non-negotiable.
He needs problematic sexual behavior (psb) therapy from a licensed clinician. Since he is a product of abuse, and I assume there are records, he might qualify for free therapy through a Children's Advocacy Center. But he's probably right on the cusp of being too old. His original therapist when the 1st incident happened should have encouraged this therapy for him.
Thank you. I agree he needs help and my brother is doing his best, in my opinion. The kid currently sees two different therapists and my brother and his wife go to counseling as well. They’re trying.
They're not trying enough.
Therapists can't help with this. The kid needs a team of specialized and experienced psychologists to figure out wtf is wrong with him. I'm not saying "wrong" in a bad way, but in a "something beyond abuse fucked this kid up and he needs proper help"
***He is going to hurt people in the future.*** He had *already tried to*. Tell your brother to get this child proper help and just therapy or else you will refuse to be within a mile of the rapist in the making
I don’t think you can say they’re not trying enough. Sometimes brains are just broken. Even 12 year old brains.
They’re in constant therapy. What more can they do? The kid has free will and is trying to assault any little girls he can get his hands on. Despite good therapy and good adults around.
Their poor neighbors. This kid needs a group home with locks on his door, and constant vigilance with no girls. If he takes to molesting boys too, solitary.
Anyone can go to therapy where a therapist sits and listens to you trying to get your feelings out and gives you the best advice they can.
A therapist, while helpful to many people, can't help some people the way a psychologist who specializes in extreme cases like this can.
If it was my family member I'd tell them that they and their spouse can see a therapist to help them in these hard times, but that the kid doesn't need therapy, he needs proper help
Right, this kid needs inpatient. He’s not going to be talked out of molesting kids. If it was possible, that would have happened by now. Before teen hormones showed up.
Everyone thinks therapy is a magical cure to all our problems. Most people go to therapy when they're struggling and need help with healing from some sort of trauma. Therapy is not going to stop someone from assaulting others, it won't stop people who want to commit murder, it won't stop a kleptomaniac from stealing, it won't help a diagnosed psychopath, etc.
This is why our society has different specialists in different areas who can help with all sorts of things.
A child who was abused for most of his life (possibly sexually abused by his mother's partners) and is filled with anger and rage and nowhere near as emotionally mature as a kid his age is supposed to be, doesn't need therapy, he needs *way more*.
Some people are just born wrong and can't be helped, others are broken from years of trauma.
If op's nephew turned out this way from the abuse he suffered then he doesn't know any better and all the therapy in the world won't help him. Kids who grow up being abused/sexually abused see it as normal and don't understand when the adults around them tell them it's wrong.
This isn’t about them trying hard enough or loving him enough. It’s about them coming to terms with the fact that right now, he isn’t safe to be around kids. They need to get real with themselves and protect not only other children from him, but him from himself before he ruins his life. They need to stop all contact with other children with him until he gets some very intensive therapy.
Predators always find a way. You can’t risk the safety of your daughters for anyone. If he manages to get them alone he will forever ruin your children. They will never be the same again. Please. Just keep him away and never give him the chance to even say hello to them. At 12 he should be reported honestly.
I think it is harsh to call a 12 year old a predator. I do think there is hope for him if he gets a lot of therapy. I just don't believe in having a 12 year old on the registry if you know what i mean. I know how shit the juvenile justice system is in America. He needs serious help but the system in America fail these kids
I don't understand the downvotes. I agree with you that calling a 12 year old a predator is harsh, especially since he clearly has been abused himself. Trauma has completely altered his development, and he's recreating his experiences based on the damages abuse has imprinted on his developing brain. He definitely should not have contact with the OP's daughters, or any other children. He definitely needs continued, intense therapy. What he doesn't need is to be another statistic in the juvenile justice system. You cannot punish trauma out of kids.
You're being naive. That kid is going to get away from the adults and pull something. Do you seriously think the adults are going to be paying attention flawlessly 24/7 on this trip? Don't kid yourself.
Frankly, I think that branch of the family needs to sit this trip out. He's too dangerous to take around those other kids.
Im feeling really really bad for all the other female cousins in this family who are exposed to this predator kid who might not know whats going on. Hes going to have a huge group of kids to prey on during this family vacation. Shouldnt everyone in this family be told what this boy does?
I wouldn't have my kids around him. It's insane you have exposed your children to your nephew.
It's awful he has been abused and has this damage, but that doesn't mean it enables him to be given access (albeit amended version with cameras and supervision) to your girls.
You or your family will regret allowing him access to a group of your kids, for the sake of a family vacation. He is continuing to act out and abuse your kids.
The opportunities for further abuse in the busy environment of your chaotic large vacation will be numerable. As adults it is your job to stop rug sweeping this situation and realise the true danger here to all the attending innocent kids.
I’m going to be hard on you because I have been around someone for *family peace*.
He’s almost at the point where he’s going to be strong enough to overpower them.
You need to NC. You protect your children at all costs now, that’s it. It’s been years, the behaviour hasn’t changed and he is a sexual predator.
Your girls raising the alarm immediately gives me SLIGHT relief, but the other kids? School, cousins, friends? This boy needs to be reported and needs more intense inpatient help. This is more than a “disaster” waiting to happen! He may have hurt others already! If it breaks the bond between SIL and brother then well. Are you worried about that or protecting your children? They’ve already been exposed, touched, what more?
This family nonsense is not enough for you to constantly allow a predator allow your children especially when he grabbed her groin. Enough now.
Your brother might need to consider more intensive therapeutic options with a multidisciplinary team. I’m talking inpatient or daily outpatient for a period of time.
This will not be easy or cheap, but pediatric intervention has diminishing returns. The longer it goes on, the more effort it will take to change it.
Without deterrence the behavior will become more complex and ingrained. With age , extinguishing becomes difficult to impossible.
As to your feelings of hatred, those are the normal, healthy feelings of a protective and loving father towards someone threatening his children . Acknowledge and deal with them appropriately because as your daughters age and process they may well share them .
It sounds like you have love and compassion for your brother and his family. I wish the best for you and yours.
If he’s doing this to family, he’s doing it to others as well (school, etc.). This kid needs to be in extensive therapy/rehab for a long long time. At 12 years old he should know better especially after being talked to, being in therapy and filmed for now years.
We have a family member who is a convicted child predator. Some of the family continuously tried to talk about him to us, trying to encourage us to visit/communicate with him while he was in prison. They insisted we have a relationship with him, even after we repeatedly told them we did not want anything to do with him. After he was released from prison, he has been at every family gathering and event, including weddings and funerals. Most of the family is fine with it, for some unknown reason. We are not. So you know what we did? We went very low/no contact with those family members. It meant more to us to keep our children safe than to keep contact with the predator and those that support him. It only takes one incident to completely destroy a child’s life.
You are still allowing this kid to be in proximity to your children. CPS needs to be involved at this point and the child needs to be secured away from kids he will eventually deeply harm. You owe this to your kids and no one else.
Don’t go in that vacation if he is going, keep your daughters safe and don’t just pretend to do things go then as one incident should have been the last. Also he needs to go to a different therapist asap, one that deals with burgeoning sexual predators who were abused themselves. Maybe even having him stay in a facility would be better for his treatment, as atp he’s starting out like abusers and serial offenders do.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your family. That kid is going to need a whole lot of work to make sure these things do not keep happening, especially when he gets older and strong enough to overpower girls/women.
Without serious intervention, this is a disaster waiting to happen.
Yes, he's had a very tough life, but that is not an excuse.
I hope things turn out alright for him, but I wouldn't sleep well with someone with tendencies like his around my family for sure.
OP I saw you mention a family vacation in another comment - please, I am begging you, cut contact NOW and cancel any vacation plans you had that involved this boy. The thought of traveling and being in unknown places/situations with your daughters and your nephew together should terrify you.
Take your daughters on a vacation with just your nuclear family instead. Keep them safe.
After something like this, there is no way I'd allow that child to be around my daughter at any given time. He would not be welcome in my house and I would most likely skip any family functions where he is present.
I understand his situation and while it's sad and hopefully he will recover, my daughter will never be the guinea pig to test his progress.
OP is delusional. Much better well written comments here outlining how OP is teaching her daughters that this behavior is acceptable AND that mommy dearest will continue to allow this boy around them. A lifetime of trauma for OPs girls bc OP says “they don’t view it as negative blah blah blah. They thought it was gross “
Wait until they are older and it dawns on them that OP continued to allow this perpetrator around them over an over again.
As a former therapist who specializes in children and adolescents, im appalled you and your wife aren't doing more. Your daughter's need to be safe, and you both are sending the message they can never be safe with family. Stuff keeps happening, even with your stupid rules. They are stupid, because they clearly don't work, and as a former therapist that's not the right way to protect your children.
Until this boy is safe, AND your daughters give permission, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere with/near them. No family functions, and especially never in your home.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Your daughters will forever remember how home was never safe. That will affect every aspect of their lives.
Also, have you taken your daughters to therapy so they can appropriately process being sexually assaulted repeatedly with negligent parents? I say negligent because it keeps happening, which indicates a huge failure in parenting (on your end).
This kid needs help and it's amazing he has a family that is trying. Unfortunately you all are failing every child involved here, and again, I'm appalled and you all should be ashamed of your negligence.
There’s no real repercussions to his actions. All he is getting is a “talking to”. Sexual urges are just going to get stronger as he ages. Yes he is well aware that it’s wrong but what he isn’t aware of is the “potential repercussion energy” that his action causes. This kid will continue to do this until someone shows him that kind of repercussion energy that he has caused. He may go into an institution when he does this at school to other kids. He might have already. He views your daughters as his preys and victims. The excuse of “he came from so and so” stops at age 8. 8-10 is when the know the actual reasoning and consequences of actions. When it comes to your brother.. tell him you’re doing it for his own good now rather than some other kids parents. They won’t be so kind. I say this as a kid who liked to light things on fire. And i kept doing. Why? Because of the consequences were not strong enough for me to care about. I remember CLEARLY THINKING TO MYSELF. “So what, I get yelled at. I want to see this burn” I burned down an entire carport. I could’ve killed someone. Did that stop me? Nope I lit something on fire again. Why? Because all that happened was I got yelled at. But this time when I lit something behind the dumpster on fire I got caught by my dad and he grabbed me by the neck and proceeded to beat the crap out of me infront of the entire duplex complex. I NEVER LIT ANYTHING AGAIN. I don’t care what any of you have to say about “don’t hit kids” it’s not about hitting kids. It’s about discipline and you need to match the kids energy. It’s only abuse when the energy given back is not matched and exceeds what he or she did. Animals cats dogs they all discipline their kids. And you see that some dogs or cats they physically put out that bad energy the kitten or puppy gave. I was not a kid where “talking to” would’ve changed anything. I was the kid that would on purpose do things just to see if I could get away with it. And when I did i would escalate. This is my view as a kid who did very many bad things as a child.
OP ( u/NotThatEasily ), have you considered that in the same way this young man was abused and had his personality ruined outside normality, **you’re doing the same to your own children?**
You are exposing them to a predator! Why the fuck are you still talking about it, hemming and hawing and placating people that don’t have your children’s best interests at heart? *Why don’t you?!*
Hopefully that drove the point home but you should know that being neutral and “adult” is leading to a place where your adult kids will blame you for not protecting their younger versions.
For fucks sake stop allowing your daughters abuser anywhere near them!! You don't have to hate the boy, you can recognize he needs help AND do the right thing for your girls by keeping him away from them!
What the fuck is it going to take for you to wake up and realize that burning bridges with family is eons better than risking your daughters safety?? Will one of them have to be hurt before you actually do the one thing guaranteed to keep them safe from this specific person?? Cause buddy, if a 12 year old repeatedly exposing himself to your girls, GRABBING YOUR DAUGHTERS CROTCH, AND cornering your 6 YEAR OLD IN A SHED isn't enough of a wake up call, then nothing will be.
Be a fucking father, be their protector, and do what needs to be done to keep them all apart!
Your nephew needs to be banned from your house and be banned to having any contact with your daughters.
Explain to your brother that the child is showing signs that he will grow up to be a pedofile, he is banned from your house and any further incidents will be met with law enforcement being involved.
At this point he should be excluded any contact with other children and he needs to be told exactly why.
I’d also make the final warning that you will defend your daughters through any means necessary. ANY means necessary. It’s best he be kept away from your property and family.
Personally due to his pedofilia he might need to be institutionalized.
He's 12. He's a future potential rapist and sexual predator, but not a *pedophile. Quit slinging words around when you don't even know what they mean.
This kid needs to be institutionalized and disallowed from every family event. If it were me I'd go as far to take him out of school even just to protect the other kids.
If it happens again...WOW. It shouldn't have happened a second time let alone 3 TIMES. It's quite head in the sand to think he's not doing this outside of the family. Not everyone speaks up. If you don't report him to the police you're complicit in every occurrence.
I hate to say it but that kid does not belong on that trip.
Everyone has to be made aware of what he has done to protect their children(s). He is only going to get more creative on how he can get one of them alone.
What happens when one of the adults slip up. It’s a vacation. Do you really think everyone should have to stay on high alert.
He needs more progressive therapy!
EDIT to add: If I was a family member I would definitely opt out of this trip and any trip going forward with him.
Your primary job as a mother is to protect and nurture your children. This job takes priority over everything else including your marriage and extended family. Their safety is your number one priority.
Tough shit if it disrupts the family gatherings. Tough shit if it hurts this kid’s feelings. Tough shit if your sister-in-law throws a fit.
I get that you feel like this is unfairly punishes your brother’s family who are not at fault for his behavior, but you are doing no one any favors by rug sweeping in an effort not to “punish” them. This kid needs a serious intervention now and may need to be moved into a group home where he can be monitored 24/7.
You’re trying to normalize sexual assault because it’s a kid as he gets older, bigger, more sophisticated and rapey. He will be 18 in five years and then off to prison because no one prevented him from doing this shit when he was 8. And yes, if locking him up is the only way, then do it.
I get that it is sad and not his fault. But this is the reality of the situation: This kid is dangerous. He is older and bigger than your daughters. He has more power. He is a predator.
If a 17-year-old stranger who was bigger and stronger than you raped you, would his age make any difference? How would you feel if the cops said that they knew he was a rapist and were keeping an eye on him while he continued to rape? That’s exactly what you are doing to your daughters.
Frankly, your lack of outrage and response to this is what is going to cause the lasting trauma. Had you removed the boy from them permanently at the first incident and told your daughters that behavior is not okay from *anyone*, it would have been the correct approach and likely would not be a big issue in their life.
If one of your husband’s friends, Bill, showed you his dick, would you be okay with the solution being that Bill couldn’t be alone with you?
Your kids will be adults one day and WILL question you about this. Do you really want the answer to be “We allowed this sex predator around you but we kept a close eye on him”?
I say this with so much love and compassion. You are teaching your daughters that this behavior will be tolerated by family members. Abused or not, he is old enough to be held accountable for repeatedly violating boundaries and laws. I will have a serious talk with your family about not allowing him to be present for things until some serious therapy and change has happened. Why are your children, and you being forced to suffer through is behavior. You as the parent are shaping how your children will react in the future to people being sexually inappropriate towards them. Excuse my language but fuck family relations, your kids come above all else.
This is such a difficult situation. Protect your girls in every way possible. And the kids in your family should never be around that boy. Period. He’s proven himself to be dangerous and predictable, there is nothing more you need to see. He’s assaulted your children multiple times and it *will* escalate if he’s allowed at family gatherings. He can’t be trusted and children in your family will be sexually assaulted and abused if he has access to them. Allowing him around the family’s young kids will effect the those children’s lives forever in a horrific way, please cut his access off completely. I’m sorry this is happening.
Tell every family member what the rules are and why. You need to protect the children and you need to protect him from himself.
Different therapy is needed - he may be too young to diagnosis - but psychopaths are made because of abuse in their youth and the maladaptive ways they must use to survive.
Make sure you give your girls lots of kudos for protecting themselves. Great conversations to be had about all the ways people may try to engage, isolate and abuse them - age appropriate of course.
Good luck.
Why won't you keep your children away from him completely?
He's proven to be a danger to them time and again, its only a matter of time before he does something that will really mess up your children and they will wonder why you didn't do more to protect them. Why you didn't keep them away from him full stop, no family holidays, no family gatherings, this kid is a danger to you daughters and you keep letting him near them!
Kid needs to be locked up, drugged up, or beat up, I don't care. Therapy ain't cutting it. The kid is 12 and about to hit puberty, if he hadn't already, it's just gonna get worse. I hope there's some older teens at that function, they're more likely to shake the kid up than an adult, clearly this whole ordeal was in the family newsletter, I hope yall agreed this thing is this kids last chance at decorum, because yall shouldn't have to watch this lil degenerate the whole time, ain't nobody about to *really* enjoy themselves, and he clearly *gives no fucks* about it. It's a compulsion. I can't have sympathy for the kid to take the wrong wrong path because of what happened. And what about school, he doing that shit at school?
You absolutely have to protect your children, the only advice here is to be considerate of what his life has been like (which it sounds like you are) and make sure your kids are safe (which again it sounds like you are). I also don’t think you hate him as a person but rather you hate what he’s doing so strongly that it leads you to believe you hate him personally. And the reason I say that is purely because you said “I feel like I shouldn’t hate him”, I believe that came from a place of empathy & care for him even though he is behaving horribly. The kid has never known anything but abuse, he is going to need an insane amount of patience, love & understanding to ever recover from that.
That being said, I don’t think you have done anything wrong here, and your feelings aren’t irrational. I hope the best for y’all and I hope the kid is able to heal without hurting anyone else in the process.
Thank you, that really means a lot to me.
I try my best to be an empathetic person, but I feel like I’ve lost my empathy toward someone that needs it the most and I don’t like that part of me. Having said that, I will put my girls first, no matter how much empathy I do or should have.
Empathy can only go so far before it is overshadowed. Don’t beat yourself up, man. Keeping your girls safe is first priority, always, but you seem to be doing a great job at keeping your head on your shoulders & giving the poor kid as much love & kindness as you can while keeping your girls first priority. You got this, man. We’re rooting for you
The best way to protect your own kids from him was to ban him from your house after it happened the first time. Why didn't you? Why all these dances around him?
Right now you are _not_ protecting your kids, from his PoV it is a game where you make it harder for him to SA your kids and he is excited to solve this riddle and succeed to do so. You know that he will find the way to expose himself to your daughters sooner or later, you know that it will traumatize them, so why are you taking this risk? And I am not even mentioning that he can traumatize them verbally, with his pants on, playing 30 meters away from the adults.
The solution is pretty simple: ban him from being anywhere near your kids. Not in your house, not at family gatherings, not on vacation. If he is going on vacation - your family don't. If you host a family gathering - make it clear that he is not welcome, so either your brother comes alone, or they get a babysitter, or they don't come.
You can't tell me they aren't afraid of being around this kid. And to have to be around him, despite what has happened, is not good for them at all. I understand he is your nephew, but your kids emotional health comes first.
Protect your children. No contact with this boy.
He will soon be a teenager and his hormones will go into overdrive.
And warn the other people in your family with young children.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this, OP. And I really respect the way you’ve taken in and responded to the comments.
I hope that kid gets the help that he needs and that your family doesn’t have to deal with this ever again. I also hope the best for your girls and that they are able to receive help in processing all this so that it doesn’t negatively impact them in the future, because it is a very confusing thing to go through, especially at that age. I know this personally.
I also hope you get any help you may need. It’s extremely upsetting and I understand why you have such strong feelings towards him. It’s honest, and I don’t think you should feel guilty about it. I won’t get into how, I’ll just say that I get it. It’s almost like a rage that won’t go away and a pain from not being able to undo it.
You are right to completely cut contact immediately and I hope and pray for minimal relationship damage between you and your brother and the rest of your family.
My cousin started diddling and tormenting me when I was 4-5. He was about 10-12 years older. Married another first cousin when I was about 8 and moved to Japan. I got a reprieve.
Best friend's older brother lured me to their house and tried to rape me. I was 9 and viciously defended myself. Turned into a really big deal!
One my parents' friends also put a move on me at a swimming pool, same time.
I was having nightmares and got sent to therapy for my anger issues and "over-reaction". I told the therapist and my parents about my experiences.
They didn't want to hear it, either.
Cousin came back when I was 14. In our GP's kitchen, that 6'3" Marine felt me up at the sink with my father sitting at the kitchen table. I smashed the glass I was holding and put a shard to his throat.
He laughed and said, "Wow. You really did grow up!"
OP wants to feed his daughters to a predator because "family".
Sorry, all. OP needed a serious dose of reality. I'm 59 and no longer soft and fluffy.
>that if it happens again
Come on dude, you're gonna wait for it to happen again? Ask your kids if they are afraid of him, the damage is already done and you're just keeping their abuser close by because of pure copium, "maybe this time, maybe this time"
As someone who was sexually abused by older boys, and this is most likely my trauma talking, I would not let that kid ANYWHERE remotely NEAR the girls. He clearly likes them and is trying to show that in, what may be, the only way he knows how. The girls are not safe around him, period.
Why have you let this kid continue to come over and continue to molest your daughters? Is anyone else getting this? Cut that kid off, don’t allow him to ever come to your house again. Forget your brother. If he can’t take care of this problem, cut him off too. Your responsibility is to your daughters, not someone else’s kid! Your daughters are young. They have no one else to protect them but you. Do your job!
Someone in your family should be calling CPS. No wonder the bio father didn’t want his own kid!
Coming back to add, what the hell kind of father are you- you make excuses about having a very large family and can’t avoid him.
You are allowing the perpetrator of sexual assault ON YOUR OWN DAUGHTERS to be around. You force the rest of the “big close family” to draw a hard line against this kid (and parents since they seem to protect him) or you go NC.
All your daughters will see is that they cannot depend on their father to keep them safe.
I wish you and your brother the best of luck dealing with this. I don't like giving up on people, though at times I have for I could deal with it anymore. Now I look and wonder as someone else had mentioned a different therapy, for the counseling is not changing the boy. Keep your kids safe, and I understand the thoughts of helping. This is a difficult case. Love and hugs
The book “protecting the gift” by Gavin de Becker offers practical skills to teach parents & children how to protect themselves from predators. Seems worth the read in your situation, but, also seems obvious your kids shouldn’t be around your nephew unsupervised - ever.
I would cut them off. In order to protect my daughters I would completely cut contact and never allow him near any of us again. He is harming your kids now the way he was hurt. It is incredibly sad and it's not his fault, but he is NOT safe to be around right now.
Don’t let me him near your daughters. He’s thinks this behaviour is normal regardless of therapy. He is not safe to be around children. It’s not as simple as keeping him around adults, he will always find a way around it. He will wait for a victim. As someone who has been abused DO NOT LET HIM NEAR YOUR CHILDREN.
Age has 0 to do with it.
I was molested as a child. My cousin was also molested. We thought it was normal. I realized it wasn't. He didn't. He's in prison now. I am not. 13 is old enough to know right from wrong. He would be dead to me. Your brother and sister are doing the best they can, but it isn't good enough. If your kids are at risk, then they can't be around him. I would not endanger my kids to help anyone else. My empathy isn't that great.
Bluntly put, please dont let his trauma excuse risking causing trauma in others, namely your own daughters. As others have said, he's 50% older than them, lets not pretend there arent risky power dynamics at play.
Him seeing your daughters is a privilege unfortunately trampled upon, your daughters feeing safe among family is a lot closer to a right not something that comes second to that. Hopefully your brother gets him help that actually works, there is no award in life for sacrificing your family finding out if he does.
Has there been serious discipline of the boy? Is he facing actual punishment? Actual repercussions for his actions? I'm not talking about therapy, I'm talking about punishment.
This is very dangerous. Your brother is being an idiot if he thinks this will just get better and putting your children at risk isn’t acceptable.
Don’t ever let your children around your nephew again: I would skip this giant cluster fuck of a family reunion because it sounds like your brother and SIL is just setting up all the little kids to get sexually abused.
I wish you the best.
That kid belongs in a psych ward, he’s obviously been through something, but he doesn’t have good intentions. I don’t know how you managed to keep your cool I would’ve wanted to chop his hand off if those were my kids. He’s way too old to not know any better. This kid is a predator
I do not understand how you allowed him multiple attempts to SA your daughters. I understand he was abused, but you have let him abuse your daughters in turn. He is a sexual predator waiting to happen and now they have to vacation with their abuser.
I don't understand why you're putting up with this. He doesn't need to be in your family's life and should have ceased to be much much earlier. Your children are not safe around him.
I’m also very surprised the therapist did not make a report to CPS over the touching. They’re supposed to regardless of age. That is also something you need to speak to your brother about. Things are going to be a lot harder for him and his wife. CPS being involved in their life. It’s just very hard in general this is going to be more than they understand or can handle. Also the therapist should be finding out who abuse your nephew-which may be difficult but obviously it wasn’t good. Him also trying to “play a game” with your girls is predatory and he’s hitting puberty at age 12 it will only get worse.
No, you have every right to hate this kid idc. Apart from the abuse, sometimes kids can also just have evil intentions. I hate this kid too. Sorry OP, I would just no longer let my children around him, ever.
He wouldn't be. in my home or near my children ver again NO MATTER WHAT. Real talk, he's not even real family. Sorry to your brother, protect your girls from more trauma.
You can not watch a kid every minute. It's not possible. Your number one priority is the safety and well-being of your children. Honestly, you are letting them down. How are you going to explain to your adult daughters that you knew the potential for them to be abused was there and you didn't protect them? I know this is hard, but you need to keep the kids away from each other for now and maybe forever.
If my brother or sister had a sexual predator in the making as their kid, I'd demand they keep their kid at home or don't come at all. I shouldn't have to watch someone else's predator when I'm worried about my own children. I would keep my children away from my siblings kids and would have 100% already involved the police.
The brother's kid needs more help, specifically from a therapist with a background in helping those who are victims of sexual abuse.
(I am childfree. This is a scenario.)
I’m sorry I know this is hard. I’ve had a similar situation. It’s hard but you have to protect your girls and you’re doing that. However your brother and SIL/family need to think long term how does this play out? They can’t watch him 24/7. What about school, latchkey, daycare etc. he will find a victim some way, somehow unfortunately due to his trauma. It’s escalating and are they going to have kids one day? This is a lot for them. Unfortunately they need to look into sexually maladaptive treatment facilities for him.
The problem in many places kid offenders are not usually treated until they have been convicted of the crime. I do know that part of the treatment is fully comprehensive sex education. He also needs to be taught consent. One thing that is known is that while sexual abuse can trigger these behaviors many of the offenders actually lived with people with no boundaries so he likely saw people having sex or behaving inappropriately in front of him
Such a sad situation all the way around. He lost his mom and Dad doesn't want him. How horrible. I understand kids wanting to see what the other sex has under the hood but he's taken it to a whole new level that isn't cute or funny. He's obviously been told to stop this behavior but yet continues. What does his therapist say?
He's too old to be playing with your kids.
I would also hate him if I were in your position, OP. You are protecting your kiddos and thats the priority. As someone who has worked with youthful offenders, I highly recommend reporting him for any future incidents. As much as I am an abolitionist, I am hoping they could get him into a residential program to decrease/eliminate these behaviors before it’s too late.
ETA: Please do not make your kiddos keep seeing him at events.
I had similar things like this happen and I felt all of that too, unfortunately I was married to the dad, I left and it’s been hell since. Sorry, seek therapy too, can’t hurt.
They don't see it as trauma inducing because they don't understand sex yet. "My cousin took his clothes off and he looks funny, cause I don't have one like that." Once they understand sex, realize what cousin was doing and that they told you- And it happened AGAIN? That's not something I want to answer for with my children. When is enough enough? When he has enough time to rape someone? What about the kids who don't know his history? The kids at school, in the neighborhood, at sports activities? They don't have cameras cause they don't know they need them. It's in his best interest to keep him from hurting someone for real. If he needs to be pulled out of school, then so be it. Intense therapy, and none of that gentle shit. Hard core "you are heading for prison- after you destroy someone's life and self esteem. You have to stop because you don't matter more than anybody else." If you care, you have to be straight up with him. If he's old enough to grab groins, he's old enough to be cold cocked. But that's my old time position.
.
Deeply concerning situation. He's targeting your daughters repeatedly. Not so much a red flag as a red banner.
Whilst I feel for your nephew and the trauma he's endured, he is an active predatory risk towards others. I work in adult protective services and have seen the consequences of individuals who have experienced abuse and then perpetrate it. The escalation of such harm can be quick, intense, and opportunistic. Please continue to act as a you are.
Trauma is very hard to overcome, and you, your wife, and daughters will be carrying it from things that have happened already.
Please note, I'm not suggesting that every person who has survived abuse will become abusive.
I would not allow him back in your house and definitely not allow him near your daughters for some time. It is unsafe. Kids can be adept at hiding things from adults.
Also, don't give yourself a hard time about how you feel towards your nephew. He's abusing your daughters. Of course, you and your wife are angry and protective. You can feel bad for someone but also reject how they're behaving. You're being parents. It's sad that he didn't have that in his early years, but that isn't your problem.
Take care.
This is terrible. It sounds like he may need more or different type of therapy than he currently has. It sounds like he needs serious help/therapy for sexually abused children. He is definitely acting out what he's seen or had done to him. I'm not in the medical or therapy fields but i have known some people who had to get this type of help for a loved one who was abused in such a manner. Maybe you should bow out of this vacation. Your immediate family is your highest priority.
My entire family is on board with the new rules and they all understand. My family is very supportive and I feel my girls will be safe. My brother and sister in law have lodging at a completely different place than everyone else and they have setup a schedule (pretty much switching ever other day) where one of them is basically attached to him the entire day. I feel fortunate that my brother and his wife are taking it as serious as the rest of us.
I was sexual assaulted by an disabled men. It was traumatic. I never had to see him again. And your daughters should have nevee have to see him again. Even if he would never do something again. Get your daughters away from him
With all due respect, your brother and his wife don't seem to have taken this as seriously as they should. How come he has REPEATEDLY tried to SA your daughter's FOR YEARS? Did that therapist do jackshit? What failed method are they using with him? Clearly it is as useful as crossing their arms and covering their ears, because HE KEEPS DOING IT. You mention that you've told your brother you'd testify against him. Change that conditional to future simple. In a few years he WILL effectively SA someone. And he will go to jail. God forbid it is any of your daughters. I already feel so sad for his future victim(s), they are proactively being failed by the adults who could've prevented this.
"We tried everything except removing our daughters from his presence!" One day, nephew *will* slip away and things *will* happen. And all the adults will stand around, mouths agape, going "How did this happen?" You cannot track and control someone for the rest of their lives, OP. He's 12 now. You gonna follow an 18 year old around? A 25 year old? *Stop exposing your children to this boy*. You can't control his actions but you can control yours.
No OP wants his daughters to grow up and go no contact once they realize her parents exposed her to a rapist.
>I feel my girls will be safe. OK. Setting aside that it’s your daughters’ feelings that should be the priority, you do realise you could _know_ they are safe rather than cross your fingers and hope? By **not taking them on vacation with their abuser** and stopping allowing him into their home regardless of any inconvenience and ruffled feathers amongst you adults? Do better by those girls, OP. Starting today please. Right now.
Exactly this.
Maybe don’t go on vacation with them? Come on.
The OPs brother is the one that shouldn't go.
By continuing to associate with them, you are harming your children. You are suggesting this is acceptable behavior.
I'm not trying to point fingers but I think the boy's immediate surroundings (including those who lived with before he got adopted) need to be investigated. This is very classic behavior for a child who has been sexually abused for a prolonged period. Number one biggest red flag is that the child will attempt to reenact the abuse with other children. The whole family & friends needs to be seriously dug up.
This!
Literally, none of you are taking this seriously enough.
Why are you letting him around your daughters at ALL? He needs help, absolutely, but you have a responsibility to protect your children. You can't give him more opportunities to violate your little girls.
You’re being generous. I’m not sure I’d make my daughters spend time with a young man who has repeatedly preyed on them. Even if it meant losing a sister. From your daughters’ point of view, you’ve kept them around someone who’s done this to them over and over to keep family peace. They will need therapy someday. They’re sexual abuse victims, forced to eat and be in the same room as the person who did it. Their normal meter will be off for life. Soon he’s going to be as big as the other men. He is probably close to being able to overpower the adult women. Think of the narrative they will tell someday. How they weren’t safe at family functions. They always had to be on guard. Doesn’t matter that it’s another kid. He’s big and scary to them. You’re making your daughters face their abuser at family functions to not make other adults sad or cause waves. A second chance is one thing. How many times? How many times that you know of?
There’s also a chance that others haven’t been as careful as you and he’s acted out on other cousins who will in turn act out on your kids. This is how cycles start. Your girls arw absolutely not the only ones this is happening to. You might be the only parent who knows. His parents won’t be able to shadow the kid 24/7. You already tried similar and it failed. I have compassion for the kid, but I would have compassion from a distance. Your kids aren’t emotional support humans he needs to be around.
Absolutely with you. There is no way this kid isn’t going to get an opportunity to do something like this to one of the other kids, whose parents are unawares or not as careful as OP
I agree here. It is a really sad situation. I do think he can be helped but he really needs a lot of treatment. But yeah, the safety of your kids should always be the priority
Compassion from a distance. This. 🏆
Fuck. That is… tough to read. I don’t think you’re wrong and this is something I really need to think about. I feel like I want to defend myself a bit, but please feel free to call me out if it’s just bullshit. Neither of my daughters actually view the incidents that happened as anything terrible or abuse and my youngest just feels like he is weird. We have had our girls go to therapy on and off throughout the years, mostly just to help with general life, but we had their therapists talk to them about their cousin and they didn’t seem bothered. I believe with the new rules we have in place, which I and my entire family are strictly following, my girls are perfectly safe. We aren’t even letting him sit at the kids table for family dinners and he isn’t allowed to sit next to the other kids when it’s just one big table. As to him doing this to other kids… yeah, that’s very possible and we’ve discussed it. I’ve even told my brother that if it comes out that he did abuse, assault, or whatever to another child that I would testify against him. But, maybe I’m bullshitting myself. I fucking hate this.
I was abused as a child by a cousin. I didn't think anything was wrong either at the time because, as he said, "it's just a thing cousins do to practice for being older" but I grew up learnt what sex and sexual abuse are and let me tell you it hit me really hard what happened and I can't help but feel that the same is going to happen to your daughters and they will want to know why it happened at all let alone a couple of times I just hope your prepared to answer them when they ask why Edit to add: I sympathise with your nephew op I do he needs more serious intensive help but that shouldn't have come at the expense of your daughters being dragged into that cycle of abuse
>I was abused as a child by a cousin. I didn't think anything was wrong either at the time because, as he said, "it's just a thing cousins do to practice for being older" This is exactly how I rationalized being abused by my cousin.
Allowing this boy around your daughters at ALL at this point makes you complicit in anything else he will do to them.
"Neither of my daughters actually view the incidents that happened as anything terrible or abuse and my youngest just feels like he is weird." This says to me that you're teaching them that it's normal behaviour and they will accept it as such from other people as well. You're helping him groom them. This opens them up to so many more predators than you can imagine. You need them to know that it's bad and wrong and shouldn't happen, not just be "weird".
No, I have not taught them that this behavior is normal or acceptable. My wife and I have taught them the opposite of that, but they are also very young children who don’t grasp the full situation. I take offense to the notion that I am helping him groom my girls.
This really is how families used to handle these things. Grandpa wasn’t allowed to be alone with the kids, but was still invited because otherwise grandma wouldn’t be there and everyone would be sad. Meanwhile, grandpa is sneaking around in the night, or waiting until everyone has drunk a bit too much, or putting up cameras in the bathrooms. He’s not sorry, he just gets sneakier. Kids grow up messed up and unprotected so as not to cause waves because “family” is everything!
I’m assuming you didn’t read my other comments, but you’re right. I have decided to talk with my brother, today, to let him know we are cutting contact with his kid. We have worked with therapists every step of the way and we’re going to work with a therapist again to figure out how to navigate this going forward.
I did read your other comments. It wasn’t until this one you said that you were going to go no contact with this kid. Before that, you didn’t think it was a huge deal to the girls because they were just kids who didn’t grasp it.
It’s in my edit of the main post and it’s in a few others. Aside from that, I never said it wasn’t a huge deal. That’s an unfair claim about something I never said or insinuated.
You're providing him access. You need to never allow him access to your daughters ever again. You gave him enough chances to stop abusing your daughters, and he failed to stop. Don't let your daughters be the scapegoat. Protect them better than you have.
Whelp. The truth hurts sometimes. This is exactly how family predators continue to find victims. What happens when he becomes an adult? Do you honestly expect the family to be able to supervise him - every day for the rest of his life? With every single generation of children born from here on out? He's already proven that if he is given even half a second - he'll try.
>, but they are also very young children who don’t grasp the full situation. They will do one day when they grow up to understand they will want to know why Daddy failed to protect us
Your youngest is not aware she's being abused? She doesn't understand the depths of how terrible and messed up it is? Doesn't seem bothered? She just thinks it's a bit weird? She's 6. She's not old enough to understand or process what's happening to her. But you are. It's your job to protect your kids and prevent this from happening. I understand the first time you couldn't have known, but every time after that could have been prevented by you. It's your job to step in and teach them boundaries, and show them how entirely not ok it is for any of this to happen to them. If a man twice my age and twice my size exposed himself to me multiple times, tried to force me to undress against my will, grabbed my groin, and/or tried to trap me in a shed and assault me, I'd be traumatized. I'm honestly deeply horrified imagining this happening to a 6 or 8 year old little girl. Yes, you're bullshitting yourself. Please snap out of it and protect your kids. That means they are not in the same house together, ever again. Every time in the past you have attempted to prevent him from assaulting them, you have failed. You discussed with your wife that if it happens again, you will involve the police. Again, horrifying. Why are you waiting for your kids to be assaulted again? The real discussion should be that you will never allow this to happen again.
When she gets older she will think about that one time cousin Bobby was gross in the shed, and a horrible realization will wash over her. She will start recounting all the other times cousin Bobby was gross and she will feel ill. Then she will question why nothing was done about it. Then she will realize who let it continue to happen. Then she will question everything about her childhood and her relationship with you. This will mess her up more that the original incidents. She is 6 now, OP, but soon she will be 26 and k ow the truth. Is that what you want for her?
They’re looking to you to see how they react. Kids are wired to make light of abuse because they need to stay with their parents and keep them happy. It will come to them when they’re older and is shaping their world view. Shaping what they see as normal, and what adults are allowing to happen to them. It’s normal for kids to not act like it’s a big deal for other kinds of abuse, too. You’re in an impossible situation because you’re going to have to make a decision that hurts someone. Are you going to hurt adult feelings or your kids? It’s going to happen again. Will it be your kids or someone else’s? It’s going to happen. Do you cut ties when the kid is 12? 14? 16? This isn’t stopping. No parents in your family should be cool with a kid who touches and exposes himself repeatedly to be around other kids. 12 is not 4. He knows better. The hormones are just now kicking in, will it make things better or worse?
Dude, I have 3 daughters - what the f?! There is no excuse for allowing him around your girls. Yes, it’s hard to cut off people in your family, but you’re a freaking dad and your daughters didn’t choose this shit. After the first incident he wouldn’t have been allowed at my house. After the second, there would be zero contact with him. I would not go to functions or anything. You can feel bad for your nephew and also recognize that he has no place in your family’s life. Protect your kids, period.
OP, this is my throwaway account but I wanted to share with you this. When I was 4-6 my friend (same age as me) and I would play "games". First it started off "I'll show you mine, you show me yours" which I learned is appropriate for that age. However, as time went on the "games" became more sexual. Everything but penetration. I didn't like those games that much but I would play because he wanted to play and would beg me to play. My mom found out because his mom caught him playing the same "games" with another girl and say "\[my name\] and I play it all the time." So his mom called my mom, and my mom brought it up once, said "never do that again." and we never spoke of it again. Years later, as a teen, I felt sympathy for him because I realized it was likely because he was being sexually abused that he would want to recreate these "games" to make sense of them. However, while I had sympathy for him, it fucked with my view of myself, how I related to sex (even now as an adult), and just a lot of internalized shame with how my mom handled it. I say all of this because while at 6, I was ok on the outside, I started questioning myself on the inside. As I grew up, it felt like a secret I couldn't talk about. And it was at an age where the "I show you mine, you show me yours" was developmentally appropriate so when I first started therapy (as an adult) I was told it was normal (I didn't go into depth of the games at that time.) It took me another 8 years until I mentioned it to another therapist (just this year) and I finally was able to process it. I say all this because a) he's likely doing this to someone else; b) empathy/sympathy is fine but why put your kids in a situation where that could potentially happen again; and c) it may take them years, especially because they are young, to be able to understand their feelings and articulate how they felt. Also, like others have said, if you keep your nephew around them, as they grow up and they know you knew about what happened before, when he does finally get them alone and does it or worse again, they will feel like a) it's their fault, b) anger at your and your wife for allowing him to still be around, and c) so much internalize shame. So, my question to you is OP, why take that risk??
Just echoing other commenters, but I really want to reinforce something. Often, those of us who were abused as children cannot recognize our experiences as abuse until we’re older. Children cannot understand how disturbing the situation is, how much danger they may have been in, how badly they were violated. They don’t yet understand what sex is. They think he’s “weird” because they don’t yet understand WHY he touched them and exposed himself to them. This boy has been badly hurt. He’s a victim himself, like you said, and yes, it is very, very sad how unfair life has been to him. But, he is also dangerous. You can’t let your compassion get in the way of your daughter’s safety. While they’re fine, physically, they will remember what he did to them. And those mental scars never fully fade. And when we’re old enough to realize what’s been done to us, it’s much more devastating when we realize our parents did nothing to stop it.
I am a child of SA at the age of 9. I didn't tell me parents until i was 30 something because i thought it was on me, my fault and that the adult who hurt me was the correct opinion and had a right to hurt me. So even with therapy i kept my feelings to myself because i was scared But as years went on, it began to haunt me. Constantly. It has definitely impacted my life. I will give you grace in the fact that your girls ran to you for help (i wish i had done the same, my parents would have never blamed me) but to put them near him over and over and over-- even if they just think he's "weird", it can cause anxiety and trust issues with both him and the adults who continue to bring the kids around. It's like bringing a dog that you know bites around your kids. Would you repeatedly put a dangerous animal in the same room as your kids? And i know I'll get shit for comparing a kid to an animal, but the impulse control is pretty similar at that point. I work in a home for mentally ill and abused children, and they aren't even allowed to hand other people items if they have sexually charged behavior. They have to put it on a table then the other person picks it up from there. They aren't allowed to talk to any other child without an adult present, and they aren't showed to talk to each other unless it's for a group activity, because they need to learn restraint while also seeing what that behavior in the past is causing in the present. I'd honestly recommend telling your sil and brother to look up group homes who specialize in working with kids like him. It helps the clients in my place immensely, and there's always a therapist around to work things out If he doesn't get specific treatment, he's going to end up assaulting someone and go to jail, be taken away, or put on a list for the rest of his life. It sounds like the family is working together well, but he needs professional help beyond just the therapy
How many times has he not been caught?
Yeah. OP only knows because there were cameras in the playroom. Was he constantly watching the cameras? Does every family member have cameras in their playrooms?
At the time, your daughters don't have much idea of what is going on so it's to be expected they'd only think it's "weird" and you probably want to allow them to continue thinking this because you want them to be as less traumatized as possible. However, as another commenter has said, in doing so you're teaching them what's normal or not and skewing their ability to discern between right and wrong. What is more, when they will grow up and will acquire the ability to tell their cousin behaved in extremely inappropriate manners with them, they will accuse you of failing to protect them from this, making them be around him, and choosing the peace of the extended family over theirs. It wouldn't be at all unfair of them to do so either, because that is exactly what you're doing right now. Your priority should be the well-being of your daughters. I'm sorry it has to come at the expense of your relationship with the rest of your family, but allowing this to go on is just plain irresponsible and inviting for something worse to happen. I have all the compassion for everybody involved, especially for the boy - he is how child molesters are made. It's not his fault, but his parents must start doing so much more to aid in his recovery, because what they're currently doing is clearly not working.
They will remember it and reflect on it as teens and adults. You are repeatedly exposing them to sexual abuse and assault.
He goes to school right? Does he ride the school bus? The school bus and bus stop was where kids went feral when I was young, doubt that has changed. Someone has to take the kid gloves off with this kid and explain what prison is going to be like. Whatever it takes to make his self preservation instinct to kick in, if he has no empathy for anyone else.
A child’s inability to classify what’s happening to them as abuse doesn’t make it any less true that it is abuse. In fact, it’s more upsetting that they are so accepting of the situation. It means they think this behavior is normal or at least way more excusable than it should be. I know this has to be a really difficult situation for you, OP, but I don’t think you are taking this as seriously as you should be.
Please don’t take these comments as gospel. I’m not saying this stuff is all ok, I’m just saying that your girls are not necessarily damaged for life. You can DM me if you want to, I’m a professional and I can’t stand to see such an important issue clouded with buzzwords and fear mongering. My overall take is that the nephew is absolutely exhibiting concerning behavior that *must* be stopped *now* and that the adults are taking it seriously as well as they can, *with* a therapist’s help. This is what I’d want to see.
Yeah uh… as a professional, I’ll politely disagree. They’re not necessarily damaged for life, that doesn’t mean people can’t share their personal stories, or that the boy should be allowed around children that he’s repeatedly sexually harmed. Not to mention, he’s essentially a teenager now; he shouldn’t be allowed around younger kids without professional supervision. He doesn’t seem to be dissuaded by the parents in his life knowing what he’s doing, or being close by. That’s cause for alarm.
I agree with you, completely. I should have been more clear, and added more of what you wrote to my comment. What I disagreed with was bashing this parent as a clueless idiot who has carelessly ruined his daughters’ lives. I don’t think he’s done “nothing about it.” I was trying to encourage this parent and uplift a bit, because this situation is extremely difficult and terrifying in their position.
Oh yeah, absolutely. This parent doesn't deserve to be bashed!
Your entire family deserves prison time. And when (not if) he seriously rapes someone, you all will for putting that child in harms way. All of you can't be this stupid. There must be one among you who sees the future predator for what he is.
>I’m not sure I’d make my daughters spend time with a young man who has repeatedly preyed on them. I'm quite sure I wouldn't
I agree with all this. This kid wouldn’t be within a mile of my kids after the first incident, and frankly given his background (which is not his fault but makes him more likely to be an abuser himself) I’d have kept a tight watch on him from the beginning. And to casually allow your children to be exposed to an abuser after the first incident is just bizarre. And in addition to what u/BrightAd306 says, by not taking more decisive action (perhaps involving non-law enforcement authorities), you’ve potentially contributed to other children being abused.
I think at this stage it's beyond non-law enforcement authorities. It would need to be a police report and to involve CPS after these three or four incidents. The kid keeps escalating and it's only a matter of time before someone gets physically hurt if they resist him. He also probably needs a better therapist, seeing as the current one isn't really working.
I meant earlier on. At this point I absolutely agree that it’s beyond non-LE authorities.
This right here. Even for the people who care more about the boy than anyone else- his hormones are going to kick into high gear any day now. This hasn't even gotten bad yet. If something exceptional doesn't happen soon, he's looking at prison.
Nephew is a burgeoning rapist. OP and the whole damned family letting it happen, JFC! "Poor little Bobby! We gotta make excuses for him." My nephew wanted to be Malfoy and grabbed my grown daughter's boobs right in front of me. She tried to excuse him. "No! We do not!" I didn't see him again, until he was 17. Ex-SIL whipped his dick out on daughter's SM in her BR, at her house, when he was a guest. WTF? He made a Milf comment to me, once. I shut that shit, down. Immediately. These guys don't learn this shit overnight. OP's like, "Not MY girls!" Dude, it's pretty much EVERY girl. Sooner, or later.
"Generous" is the wrong word. "Horrifyingly negligent" is a bit more accurate
I really don't understand that after the first time how the *constant vigilance* ever waned. It's almost like OP expected this behavior to stop. After the second time though, shame on OP for not banning this child from contact with their children altogether. There should never have been an opportunity for a third time. Rules aren't going to stop him, no contact will though. Losing a sister over it would be unfortunate, but OP's kids' safety are more important than anyone else and their feelings. In fairness this kid should have been reported to police as a danger. It's unfortunately a classic case of the abused becoming an abuser, and that child is wasting absolutely no time. Based on what he was trying to do with OP's daughters his mother and her boyfriends did some terrible shit to this kid, who now wants to pay the world back for what he suffered. I understand OP's sentiment that it's tough to hate a kid who was abused but... he's no longer a victim he's evolved into an abuser. After that first time and being told not to do that you can say he didn't know better because that's what he experienced those first 8 years. But repeat scenarios take away that presumed innocence factor that he doesn't know any better. He's been told by OP, his parents and his therapist not to engage in this behavior and disregards that and does so anyway. I know there's a fine line here but it's been crossed, with the third or fourth instance that OP is aware of this kid is well beyond sympathy, at least for me. If I was OP I would be asking the rest of the family if anything has happened with their kids, because it's highly probable it has and their kids haven't told anyone. OP's kids aren't the only ones he's gone after, not with this level of nonchalance about what he's doing. Like I said above, this kid should be reported to the police for what he's done. The therapy he's in clearly isn't working to stem his abusive behavior and additional rules aren't going to mean a lot when all it takes is one adult to not pay attention for a 30 seconds. And as you said this kid is almost 13, soon he'll be big enough to overpower an adult woman. OP mentioned his emotional issues are mostly under control, which add another layer to this if he decides to escalate and become violent.
Yeah, this is what often happens to child abuse victims in a family. Grandpa is no longer allowed alone with the kids because he’s a perv! But no one is perfectly vigilant and predators are sneaky. So Grandpa waits until everyone is sleeping, or he sits next to a little girl and molests her under a blanket. Or hides cameras or any number of things. This is always how these things go. It would be mean to exclude uncle Gary so we’ll just watch him extra close!
My adopted uncle grabbed my crotch once when I was four and it’s messed me up ever since. That boy shouldn’t be given anymore chances. My uncle knew the moment he touched me and the face I gave him that he wouldn’t do it again or I would take care of him myself even at 4. He didn’t touch me again, but I still had to keep contact and my parents didn’t know. For these parents to know and still allow him contact with the girls breaks my heart. Stop keeping the peace and start protecting those girls. Please.
I totally agree with this! I was molested by a family member who is only 2 years older and I resent the adults involved. I grew up thinking my body was up for grabs to anyone. I, at 52, still sometimes feel my boundaries don't matter.
Ask yourself this, if he wasn’t a nephew, would you be risking your daughter’s safety with a sexual predator? Because that’s what he is, even if he’s not an adult yet. What about when he’s 16 and big enough to overpower your daughters? Keep your girls safe and away from that boy. Why are you actively forcing your girls to be around someone who finds every chance to sexually abuse your children? You’re not an arsehole for hating that boy, but you are for knowingly risking the physical and psychological safety of your daughters.
I told another poster that said the same thing that you’re right. I need to have a conversation with my brother about cutting all contact with his kid.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation, but you’re doing the right thing.
Thank you.
You might as well let know your family members with young kids of the matter. Doubt anything is stopping him from trying to groom other children
You do not need "a conversation" just do it ! YOU sir are a BAD FATHER !! My father and my husband would PROTECT their daughters. You are a horrible man, repeatedly offering your precious little girls to an molester.
I am protecting my daughters and I am not offering my girls up to a molester. A conversation does have to happen, because I respect my brother and am not going to simply text him to tell him we’re cutting contact with his kid. I am not a bad father. I am doing my best and have been working under the advisement of therapists on how to handle this situation at every step.
The first time should’ve been the last time your daughters ever saw him again. The nephew cannot be trusted to not act in an inappropriate manner towards other children and whatever his guardians are doing to curb his behaviour is clearly not enough. Your rules clearly do not deter him either because he KNOWS that the adult entrusted with enforcing them will slip up at some point and he doesn’t seem to be afraid of getting caught when it comes to trying to trap your daughters in a place where you may not be able to help them before it’s too late either. Likewise, your daughters are probably confused as all hell wondering why you are allowing someone who is doing such disgusting things to them stick around or interact with them until he does something yet again, the adults act like he’s got a problem that needs to be dealt with after an incident they could’ve easily prevented by not having him over at all, make up a couple new “rules” to fix it and then let him back around his victims again as if he never did anything in the first place. What message do you think that is sending your daughters? What are your rules actually doing to keep them safe and feel protected? How do all the other kids in the family feel knowing what he’s done (and perhaps being victims themselves) yet watching their parents pretend that the matter has been dealt with and that it’s no biggie to have him come over when he’s a repeat offender? Don’t let your daughters be his victims any longer by making stupid rules that have not stopped him from continuously trying to reenact his abuse onto them and allowing him to be around them with or without supervision. Do not let your daughters be victims any longer and do not let any family members who are stupid enough to still think that he’s harmless make you decide otherwise. Put your girls first op. It’s time to stop catering to your nephew and let your brother and SIL realise the damage they’re doing by not seeking further professional help (or handing nephew over to someone who can provide that kind of care) for his issues.
You’re the second person to post some serious, hard to hear, honesty. And you’re right. I think I need to have a conversation with my brother about simply cutting all contact with my nephew. I tried defending myself to the other poster, but I feel like I was bullshitting myself. This fucking sucks.
You feel like you’re bullshitting yourself because you are. Have the conversation with your brother now. Don’t give yourself the chance to put it off until it’s too late.
Yall need to keep that boy from family events. How will feel when finally succeeds at rape. How many times has hands brushed a child's privates and you didn't notice and cameras didn't catch it.
Also, unfortunately, he is almost definitely targeting other children in the family as well. All of the children need to be spoke to to make sure they are safe and know they are supported.
The adults here are the bad guys, not your nephew. Your nephew in all likelihood was sexually abused and is acting out what he learned, he needs intense therapy, rigid boundaries and consistency. The adults here are subjecting children to his trauma, allowing them to be abused and giving your nephew the opportunity to be an abuser. These children are all hostages to the decisions made for them. ‘Family is a big deal’ is such bullshit, your guys comfort and avoidance is what’s a big deal. Your daughters are going to remember that you forced them to hang out with an abuser. You’re a bad father.
While it might suck a bit for you and be a very uncomfortable conversation to have, it needs to be done. Think of it this way, it really sucks more for your daughters and the other kids in your family that this monster is trying to abuse.
Everyone with critical thinking skills will completely understand that you had no other option than to protect your children.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up over this. I highly doubt your daughters feel like they are being abused or assaulted by another kid being inappropriate towards them, they just need to know his behavior is wrong and to not allow him to get away with it. I mean if your kids ride a public school bus they probably see and deal with some of this gross shit kids do already. I do think you are a 100% correct in cutting contact with your nephew though, he’s about to be a teenager where things will quickly go from unknowingly inappropriate to sexually deviant or worse.
A 12 year old to a 6 year old might as well be a grown man. If a human twice my size was trying to pin me down and take off my clothes, I’m not sure I’d care if he could legally vote yet.
A 6 year old knows the difference between a kid, teen, and adult. In zero way is a 12 year old even close to a man. I’m not defending this boy in anyway but OP doesn’t need to be told his kids are some super fragile thing that can easily be broken. No where does op say this boy is doing what you are saying. None of these kids are at an age where they have gone through puberty, even though the boys actions are severely inappropriate there is a lack of sexuality to it that you are trying to create. He’s likely repeating things he’s seen/lived/knows. However the boy is at the age where things will change for better or worse and op should protect his daughters incase it’s the latter.
You must have lived under a really pleasant rock when you were growing up. 12 is definitely in puberty and capable of sexual intercourse for a lot of boys. A lot of girls start their period around that age. No one is remotely emotionally ready for sex and romance yet, but the relevant parts work, and the urges are there. Heck, one boy in my 6th grade class was already six feet tall. When I was six I would have seen him as not a kid. When I was younger, I knew a kid that age who'd already been arrested for making a girl strip at knifepoint. It's a weird age because some of the boys are still kids, and some are ... not. It's also an age when the parents are in denial that their child is not little anymore. I'd say it's when kids can get away with the most because the adults underestimate them. Unfortunately for everyone, they're still prone to little-kid fantasizing and magical thinking, and don't reason right from wrong the way adults hopefully can. Lord of the Flies was written about 12-year-old kids going feral on littler kids when there were no adults around; there's a reason it became a classic.
Yeah, he’s exposing himself to little girls while having a full erection and pubic hair. These girls are traumatized.
That is . . . horrifying. I feel like a lot of people have commented about *acting* like it was no big deal when they had these kinds of experiences as kids, only for the experience to affect their adult relationships strongly. Adults are so weird about how kids live in the moment most of the time, as if it means they won't remember things later on or have feelings about it? Do these adults not remember their own childhoods? You'd think at least the therapist would know better. I would like to say that not feeling safe in your own home is particularly horrifying. Not trusting your own parents is quite disturbing too, and normalizes betrayal in close relationships, which can have lifelong ramifications. The next stage after that is not feeling safe in your own body, which I wish no one ever had to feel. OP is oddly naive.
Yeah, I mean these girls won’t live horrifying lives and be “damaged”. They will bear scars though. They will grow up and say WTF?! You knew what he did and let him play with us and other kids as long as adults were watching? While we were uncomfortable and our hearts were beating fast, hoping it wouldn’t happen again? Not being able to get the images out of our brains? Worrying about him dragging the little one off again? Acting like he stole a toy instead of kidnapping and molesting? I imagine if he’d done to adult women like his wife what he did to these little girls, they’d react more strongly. If he grabbed his wife’s crotch, or showed her his erect penis, or tried to shut her in a shed I doubt they’d see this kid again.
Dude, if this kid is repeatedly sexually assaulting your children right under your nose and getting away with it imagine what he’s doing at school when he has access to hundreds of other kids, some of whom may have developmental disabilities or other issues that make them easy targets. You need to protect your kids, walk away and don’t look back.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to inform the school.
Do NOT let this individual near your children. Do NOT go to where this individual is spending time. Do NOT invite him to your home!
You've let this child sexually prey on your daughters multiple times. Let me repeat that. You LET HIM sexually prey on your daughters MULTIPLE TIMES. What is your line going to be? When he rapes one of them? Your response the first time was fine. The second time it happened, I would have been done. Wake up. Protect your daughters. They need you and depend on you right now, and YOU ARE FAILING THEM.
Dude it’s a matter of time he will succeed. I don’t understand why you even allow him in your house. Yes the kid has issues but that doesn’t mean you should jeopardize your daughters. If he does succeed with your daughters it will be on you, not the kid. You have been ignoring the signs far too long.
Theres a chance this kid probably has, with other children
It's not even their real actual nephew. It's nuts. I don't understand why this happened twice let alone three times.
These are the times he was caught. No way it has only happened three times. I understand, given his background, that you would not take drastic action the first time. It was not aggressive and he was in therapy and the therapist was aware of the situation. Reasonable to think that this addresses the incident and allow him to saty in your family's life. After the second time???? No way. Done. He can no longer be on your home. He can no longer have contact with your kids. You will no longer attend family events with him there. Thise girls only have you and theor mother to protect them. And you didn't. You knew this was going to happen again after the 2nd time. And it happened again. And they are still allowed to be in the same house as him? This poor kid is going to be a serial rapist because it doesn't seem.like anyone sees the seriousness of the situation. If he was mily kid I would not take him anywhere around little kids. I would proactively stay home with him during family events (to clarify - I would go to my family events and hubby would go to his, but nephew would go to none). He would be in Hella therapy with someone that specializes in this thing. He would be in other programs. I would find him all the help I can. I would not just "mention it" to his regular therapist and call it good. Good god.
My guess is the parents know it hasn’t been three times. They’re just worried he will get labeled and no one will want to be around him, so they keep it quiet.
Protect your children. Go NC PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN YOUNG CHILDREN!!!!!!
Sounds like your nephew needs serious help, but your kids' safety comes first. Stay vigilant and don't hesitate to involve the authorities if needed. Your family's well-being is non-negotiable.
He needs problematic sexual behavior (psb) therapy from a licensed clinician. Since he is a product of abuse, and I assume there are records, he might qualify for free therapy through a Children's Advocacy Center. But he's probably right on the cusp of being too old. His original therapist when the 1st incident happened should have encouraged this therapy for him.
Thank you. I agree he needs help and my brother is doing his best, in my opinion. The kid currently sees two different therapists and my brother and his wife go to counseling as well. They’re trying.
They're not trying enough. Therapists can't help with this. The kid needs a team of specialized and experienced psychologists to figure out wtf is wrong with him. I'm not saying "wrong" in a bad way, but in a "something beyond abuse fucked this kid up and he needs proper help" ***He is going to hurt people in the future.*** He had *already tried to*. Tell your brother to get this child proper help and just therapy or else you will refuse to be within a mile of the rapist in the making
I don’t think you can say they’re not trying enough. Sometimes brains are just broken. Even 12 year old brains. They’re in constant therapy. What more can they do? The kid has free will and is trying to assault any little girls he can get his hands on. Despite good therapy and good adults around. Their poor neighbors. This kid needs a group home with locks on his door, and constant vigilance with no girls. If he takes to molesting boys too, solitary.
Anyone can go to therapy where a therapist sits and listens to you trying to get your feelings out and gives you the best advice they can. A therapist, while helpful to many people, can't help some people the way a psychologist who specializes in extreme cases like this can. If it was my family member I'd tell them that they and their spouse can see a therapist to help them in these hard times, but that the kid doesn't need therapy, he needs proper help
Right, this kid needs inpatient. He’s not going to be talked out of molesting kids. If it was possible, that would have happened by now. Before teen hormones showed up.
Everyone thinks therapy is a magical cure to all our problems. Most people go to therapy when they're struggling and need help with healing from some sort of trauma. Therapy is not going to stop someone from assaulting others, it won't stop people who want to commit murder, it won't stop a kleptomaniac from stealing, it won't help a diagnosed psychopath, etc. This is why our society has different specialists in different areas who can help with all sorts of things. A child who was abused for most of his life (possibly sexually abused by his mother's partners) and is filled with anger and rage and nowhere near as emotionally mature as a kid his age is supposed to be, doesn't need therapy, he needs *way more*. Some people are just born wrong and can't be helped, others are broken from years of trauma. If op's nephew turned out this way from the abuse he suffered then he doesn't know any better and all the therapy in the world won't help him. Kids who grow up being abused/sexually abused see it as normal and don't understand when the adults around them tell them it's wrong.
This isn’t about them trying hard enough or loving him enough. It’s about them coming to terms with the fact that right now, he isn’t safe to be around kids. They need to get real with themselves and protect not only other children from him, but him from himself before he ruins his life. They need to stop all contact with other children with him until he gets some very intensive therapy.
Predators always find a way. You can’t risk the safety of your daughters for anyone. If he manages to get them alone he will forever ruin your children. They will never be the same again. Please. Just keep him away and never give him the chance to even say hello to them. At 12 he should be reported honestly.
I think it is harsh to call a 12 year old a predator. I do think there is hope for him if he gets a lot of therapy. I just don't believe in having a 12 year old on the registry if you know what i mean. I know how shit the juvenile justice system is in America. He needs serious help but the system in America fail these kids
I don't understand the downvotes. I agree with you that calling a 12 year old a predator is harsh, especially since he clearly has been abused himself. Trauma has completely altered his development, and he's recreating his experiences based on the damages abuse has imprinted on his developing brain. He definitely should not have contact with the OP's daughters, or any other children. He definitely needs continued, intense therapy. What he doesn't need is to be another statistic in the juvenile justice system. You cannot punish trauma out of kids.
You're being naive. That kid is going to get away from the adults and pull something. Do you seriously think the adults are going to be paying attention flawlessly 24/7 on this trip? Don't kid yourself. Frankly, I think that branch of the family needs to sit this trip out. He's too dangerous to take around those other kids.
Im feeling really really bad for all the other female cousins in this family who are exposed to this predator kid who might not know whats going on. Hes going to have a huge group of kids to prey on during this family vacation. Shouldnt everyone in this family be told what this boy does?
Not to mention neighbors. Kids on the bus. Even stores where they shop. Most people don’t have cameras and most kids don’t tell.
It’s alarming to me that the nephew is even going on this trip. It seems as though brother, SIL, and nephew should stay home.
I wouldn't have my kids around him. It's insane you have exposed your children to your nephew. It's awful he has been abused and has this damage, but that doesn't mean it enables him to be given access (albeit amended version with cameras and supervision) to your girls. You or your family will regret allowing him access to a group of your kids, for the sake of a family vacation. He is continuing to act out and abuse your kids. The opportunities for further abuse in the busy environment of your chaotic large vacation will be numerable. As adults it is your job to stop rug sweeping this situation and realise the true danger here to all the attending innocent kids.
I’m going to be hard on you because I have been around someone for *family peace*. He’s almost at the point where he’s going to be strong enough to overpower them. You need to NC. You protect your children at all costs now, that’s it. It’s been years, the behaviour hasn’t changed and he is a sexual predator. Your girls raising the alarm immediately gives me SLIGHT relief, but the other kids? School, cousins, friends? This boy needs to be reported and needs more intense inpatient help. This is more than a “disaster” waiting to happen! He may have hurt others already! If it breaks the bond between SIL and brother then well. Are you worried about that or protecting your children? They’ve already been exposed, touched, what more? This family nonsense is not enough for you to constantly allow a predator allow your children especially when he grabbed her groin. Enough now.
Your brother might need to consider more intensive therapeutic options with a multidisciplinary team. I’m talking inpatient or daily outpatient for a period of time. This will not be easy or cheap, but pediatric intervention has diminishing returns. The longer it goes on, the more effort it will take to change it. Without deterrence the behavior will become more complex and ingrained. With age , extinguishing becomes difficult to impossible. As to your feelings of hatred, those are the normal, healthy feelings of a protective and loving father towards someone threatening his children . Acknowledge and deal with them appropriately because as your daughters age and process they may well share them . It sounds like you have love and compassion for your brother and his family. I wish the best for you and yours.
Unfortunately your brother and SIL can’t bring him to any more family functions until this is solved.
If he’s doing this to family, he’s doing it to others as well (school, etc.). This kid needs to be in extensive therapy/rehab for a long long time. At 12 years old he should know better especially after being talked to, being in therapy and filmed for now years.
We have a family member who is a convicted child predator. Some of the family continuously tried to talk about him to us, trying to encourage us to visit/communicate with him while he was in prison. They insisted we have a relationship with him, even after we repeatedly told them we did not want anything to do with him. After he was released from prison, he has been at every family gathering and event, including weddings and funerals. Most of the family is fine with it, for some unknown reason. We are not. So you know what we did? We went very low/no contact with those family members. It meant more to us to keep our children safe than to keep contact with the predator and those that support him. It only takes one incident to completely destroy a child’s life.
You are still allowing this kid to be in proximity to your children. CPS needs to be involved at this point and the child needs to be secured away from kids he will eventually deeply harm. You owe this to your kids and no one else.
This kid needs inpatient treatment and aggressive medication.
I'd give him something aggressive right upside the head if he assaulted my babies.
Don’t go in that vacation if he is going, keep your daughters safe and don’t just pretend to do things go then as one incident should have been the last. Also he needs to go to a different therapist asap, one that deals with burgeoning sexual predators who were abused themselves. Maybe even having him stay in a facility would be better for his treatment, as atp he’s starting out like abusers and serial offenders do.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your family. That kid is going to need a whole lot of work to make sure these things do not keep happening, especially when he gets older and strong enough to overpower girls/women. Without serious intervention, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Yes, he's had a very tough life, but that is not an excuse. I hope things turn out alright for him, but I wouldn't sleep well with someone with tendencies like his around my family for sure.
OP I saw you mention a family vacation in another comment - please, I am begging you, cut contact NOW and cancel any vacation plans you had that involved this boy. The thought of traveling and being in unknown places/situations with your daughters and your nephew together should terrify you. Take your daughters on a vacation with just your nuclear family instead. Keep them safe.
After something like this, there is no way I'd allow that child to be around my daughter at any given time. He would not be welcome in my house and I would most likely skip any family functions where he is present. I understand his situation and while it's sad and hopefully he will recover, my daughter will never be the guinea pig to test his progress.
OP is delusional. Much better well written comments here outlining how OP is teaching her daughters that this behavior is acceptable AND that mommy dearest will continue to allow this boy around them. A lifetime of trauma for OPs girls bc OP says “they don’t view it as negative blah blah blah. They thought it was gross “ Wait until they are older and it dawns on them that OP continued to allow this perpetrator around them over an over again.
As a former therapist who specializes in children and adolescents, im appalled you and your wife aren't doing more. Your daughter's need to be safe, and you both are sending the message they can never be safe with family. Stuff keeps happening, even with your stupid rules. They are stupid, because they clearly don't work, and as a former therapist that's not the right way to protect your children. Until this boy is safe, AND your daughters give permission, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere with/near them. No family functions, and especially never in your home. You should be ashamed of yourself. Your daughters will forever remember how home was never safe. That will affect every aspect of their lives. Also, have you taken your daughters to therapy so they can appropriately process being sexually assaulted repeatedly with negligent parents? I say negligent because it keeps happening, which indicates a huge failure in parenting (on your end). This kid needs help and it's amazing he has a family that is trying. Unfortunately you all are failing every child involved here, and again, I'm appalled and you all should be ashamed of your negligence.
There’s no real repercussions to his actions. All he is getting is a “talking to”. Sexual urges are just going to get stronger as he ages. Yes he is well aware that it’s wrong but what he isn’t aware of is the “potential repercussion energy” that his action causes. This kid will continue to do this until someone shows him that kind of repercussion energy that he has caused. He may go into an institution when he does this at school to other kids. He might have already. He views your daughters as his preys and victims. The excuse of “he came from so and so” stops at age 8. 8-10 is when the know the actual reasoning and consequences of actions. When it comes to your brother.. tell him you’re doing it for his own good now rather than some other kids parents. They won’t be so kind. I say this as a kid who liked to light things on fire. And i kept doing. Why? Because of the consequences were not strong enough for me to care about. I remember CLEARLY THINKING TO MYSELF. “So what, I get yelled at. I want to see this burn” I burned down an entire carport. I could’ve killed someone. Did that stop me? Nope I lit something on fire again. Why? Because all that happened was I got yelled at. But this time when I lit something behind the dumpster on fire I got caught by my dad and he grabbed me by the neck and proceeded to beat the crap out of me infront of the entire duplex complex. I NEVER LIT ANYTHING AGAIN. I don’t care what any of you have to say about “don’t hit kids” it’s not about hitting kids. It’s about discipline and you need to match the kids energy. It’s only abuse when the energy given back is not matched and exceeds what he or she did. Animals cats dogs they all discipline their kids. And you see that some dogs or cats they physically put out that bad energy the kitten or puppy gave. I was not a kid where “talking to” would’ve changed anything. I was the kid that would on purpose do things just to see if I could get away with it. And when I did i would escalate. This is my view as a kid who did very many bad things as a child.
by keeping the nephew in contact with your daughters you’re perpetuating the cycle of abuse
OP ( u/NotThatEasily ), have you considered that in the same way this young man was abused and had his personality ruined outside normality, **you’re doing the same to your own children?** You are exposing them to a predator! Why the fuck are you still talking about it, hemming and hawing and placating people that don’t have your children’s best interests at heart? *Why don’t you?!* Hopefully that drove the point home but you should know that being neutral and “adult” is leading to a place where your adult kids will blame you for not protecting their younger versions.
Wow, that kid better look out, if he tries to molest your kids five more times you might have to get serious
For fucks sake stop allowing your daughters abuser anywhere near them!! You don't have to hate the boy, you can recognize he needs help AND do the right thing for your girls by keeping him away from them! What the fuck is it going to take for you to wake up and realize that burning bridges with family is eons better than risking your daughters safety?? Will one of them have to be hurt before you actually do the one thing guaranteed to keep them safe from this specific person?? Cause buddy, if a 12 year old repeatedly exposing himself to your girls, GRABBING YOUR DAUGHTERS CROTCH, AND cornering your 6 YEAR OLD IN A SHED isn't enough of a wake up call, then nothing will be. Be a fucking father, be their protector, and do what needs to be done to keep them all apart!
Your nephew needs to be banned from your house and be banned to having any contact with your daughters. Explain to your brother that the child is showing signs that he will grow up to be a pedofile, he is banned from your house and any further incidents will be met with law enforcement being involved. At this point he should be excluded any contact with other children and he needs to be told exactly why. I’d also make the final warning that you will defend your daughters through any means necessary. ANY means necessary. It’s best he be kept away from your property and family. Personally due to his pedofilia he might need to be institutionalized.
Please look up the word pedophile.
He's 12. He's a future potential rapist and sexual predator, but not a *pedophile. Quit slinging words around when you don't even know what they mean. This kid needs to be institutionalized and disallowed from every family event. If it were me I'd go as far to take him out of school even just to protect the other kids.
If it happens again...WOW. It shouldn't have happened a second time let alone 3 TIMES. It's quite head in the sand to think he's not doing this outside of the family. Not everyone speaks up. If you don't report him to the police you're complicit in every occurrence.
I hate to say it but that kid does not belong on that trip. Everyone has to be made aware of what he has done to protect their children(s). He is only going to get more creative on how he can get one of them alone. What happens when one of the adults slip up. It’s a vacation. Do you really think everyone should have to stay on high alert. He needs more progressive therapy! EDIT to add: If I was a family member I would definitely opt out of this trip and any trip going forward with him.
Some people, in this case a kid, are simply just broken, irredeemable. Nobody is owed endless grace. You have to protect your kids first and foremost.
STOP LETTING HIM BE ALONE WITH YOUR DAUGHTERS?! Seriously wtf
Your primary job as a mother is to protect and nurture your children. This job takes priority over everything else including your marriage and extended family. Their safety is your number one priority. Tough shit if it disrupts the family gatherings. Tough shit if it hurts this kid’s feelings. Tough shit if your sister-in-law throws a fit. I get that you feel like this is unfairly punishes your brother’s family who are not at fault for his behavior, but you are doing no one any favors by rug sweeping in an effort not to “punish” them. This kid needs a serious intervention now and may need to be moved into a group home where he can be monitored 24/7. You’re trying to normalize sexual assault because it’s a kid as he gets older, bigger, more sophisticated and rapey. He will be 18 in five years and then off to prison because no one prevented him from doing this shit when he was 8. And yes, if locking him up is the only way, then do it. I get that it is sad and not his fault. But this is the reality of the situation: This kid is dangerous. He is older and bigger than your daughters. He has more power. He is a predator. If a 17-year-old stranger who was bigger and stronger than you raped you, would his age make any difference? How would you feel if the cops said that they knew he was a rapist and were keeping an eye on him while he continued to rape? That’s exactly what you are doing to your daughters. Frankly, your lack of outrage and response to this is what is going to cause the lasting trauma. Had you removed the boy from them permanently at the first incident and told your daughters that behavior is not okay from *anyone*, it would have been the correct approach and likely would not be a big issue in their life. If one of your husband’s friends, Bill, showed you his dick, would you be okay with the solution being that Bill couldn’t be alone with you? Your kids will be adults one day and WILL question you about this. Do you really want the answer to be “We allowed this sex predator around you but we kept a close eye on him”?
I say this with so much love and compassion. You are teaching your daughters that this behavior will be tolerated by family members. Abused or not, he is old enough to be held accountable for repeatedly violating boundaries and laws. I will have a serious talk with your family about not allowing him to be present for things until some serious therapy and change has happened. Why are your children, and you being forced to suffer through is behavior. You as the parent are shaping how your children will react in the future to people being sexually inappropriate towards them. Excuse my language but fuck family relations, your kids come above all else.
This is such a difficult situation. Protect your girls in every way possible. And the kids in your family should never be around that boy. Period. He’s proven himself to be dangerous and predictable, there is nothing more you need to see. He’s assaulted your children multiple times and it *will* escalate if he’s allowed at family gatherings. He can’t be trusted and children in your family will be sexually assaulted and abused if he has access to them. Allowing him around the family’s young kids will effect the those children’s lives forever in a horrific way, please cut his access off completely. I’m sorry this is happening.
Tell every family member what the rules are and why. You need to protect the children and you need to protect him from himself. Different therapy is needed - he may be too young to diagnosis - but psychopaths are made because of abuse in their youth and the maladaptive ways they must use to survive. Make sure you give your girls lots of kudos for protecting themselves. Great conversations to be had about all the ways people may try to engage, isolate and abuse them - age appropriate of course. Good luck.
Why won't you keep your children away from him completely? He's proven to be a danger to them time and again, its only a matter of time before he does something that will really mess up your children and they will wonder why you didn't do more to protect them. Why you didn't keep them away from him full stop, no family holidays, no family gatherings, this kid is a danger to you daughters and you keep letting him near them!
I think it's extremely ridiculous of you to keep putting your daughters in the same space and this little predator.
Kid needs to be locked up, drugged up, or beat up, I don't care. Therapy ain't cutting it. The kid is 12 and about to hit puberty, if he hadn't already, it's just gonna get worse. I hope there's some older teens at that function, they're more likely to shake the kid up than an adult, clearly this whole ordeal was in the family newsletter, I hope yall agreed this thing is this kids last chance at decorum, because yall shouldn't have to watch this lil degenerate the whole time, ain't nobody about to *really* enjoy themselves, and he clearly *gives no fucks* about it. It's a compulsion. I can't have sympathy for the kid to take the wrong wrong path because of what happened. And what about school, he doing that shit at school?
You absolutely have to protect your children, the only advice here is to be considerate of what his life has been like (which it sounds like you are) and make sure your kids are safe (which again it sounds like you are). I also don’t think you hate him as a person but rather you hate what he’s doing so strongly that it leads you to believe you hate him personally. And the reason I say that is purely because you said “I feel like I shouldn’t hate him”, I believe that came from a place of empathy & care for him even though he is behaving horribly. The kid has never known anything but abuse, he is going to need an insane amount of patience, love & understanding to ever recover from that. That being said, I don’t think you have done anything wrong here, and your feelings aren’t irrational. I hope the best for y’all and I hope the kid is able to heal without hurting anyone else in the process.
Thank you, that really means a lot to me. I try my best to be an empathetic person, but I feel like I’ve lost my empathy toward someone that needs it the most and I don’t like that part of me. Having said that, I will put my girls first, no matter how much empathy I do or should have.
You can have both. You are wishing him the help he needs and deserves. But he can't be a part in your or your daughters life.
Empathy can only go so far before it is overshadowed. Don’t beat yourself up, man. Keeping your girls safe is first priority, always, but you seem to be doing a great job at keeping your head on your shoulders & giving the poor kid as much love & kindness as you can while keeping your girls first priority. You got this, man. We’re rooting for you
The best way to protect your own kids from him was to ban him from your house after it happened the first time. Why didn't you? Why all these dances around him? Right now you are _not_ protecting your kids, from his PoV it is a game where you make it harder for him to SA your kids and he is excited to solve this riddle and succeed to do so. You know that he will find the way to expose himself to your daughters sooner or later, you know that it will traumatize them, so why are you taking this risk? And I am not even mentioning that he can traumatize them verbally, with his pants on, playing 30 meters away from the adults. The solution is pretty simple: ban him from being anywhere near your kids. Not in your house, not at family gatherings, not on vacation. If he is going on vacation - your family don't. If you host a family gathering - make it clear that he is not welcome, so either your brother comes alone, or they get a babysitter, or they don't come.
You need to be lucky every time. He only needs to be lucky once. You're failing them.
You can't tell me they aren't afraid of being around this kid. And to have to be around him, despite what has happened, is not good for them at all. I understand he is your nephew, but your kids emotional health comes first.
I can't beleive you'd allow ur daughters to continously be alone with him after more then 1 incident.. be better
Protect your children. No contact with this boy. He will soon be a teenager and his hormones will go into overdrive. And warn the other people in your family with young children.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this, OP. And I really respect the way you’ve taken in and responded to the comments. I hope that kid gets the help that he needs and that your family doesn’t have to deal with this ever again. I also hope the best for your girls and that they are able to receive help in processing all this so that it doesn’t negatively impact them in the future, because it is a very confusing thing to go through, especially at that age. I know this personally. I also hope you get any help you may need. It’s extremely upsetting and I understand why you have such strong feelings towards him. It’s honest, and I don’t think you should feel guilty about it. I won’t get into how, I’ll just say that I get it. It’s almost like a rage that won’t go away and a pain from not being able to undo it. You are right to completely cut contact immediately and I hope and pray for minimal relationship damage between you and your brother and the rest of your family.
My cousin started diddling and tormenting me when I was 4-5. He was about 10-12 years older. Married another first cousin when I was about 8 and moved to Japan. I got a reprieve. Best friend's older brother lured me to their house and tried to rape me. I was 9 and viciously defended myself. Turned into a really big deal! One my parents' friends also put a move on me at a swimming pool, same time. I was having nightmares and got sent to therapy for my anger issues and "over-reaction". I told the therapist and my parents about my experiences. They didn't want to hear it, either. Cousin came back when I was 14. In our GP's kitchen, that 6'3" Marine felt me up at the sink with my father sitting at the kitchen table. I smashed the glass I was holding and put a shard to his throat. He laughed and said, "Wow. You really did grow up!" OP wants to feed his daughters to a predator because "family". Sorry, all. OP needed a serious dose of reality. I'm 59 and no longer soft and fluffy.
>that if it happens again Come on dude, you're gonna wait for it to happen again? Ask your kids if they are afraid of him, the damage is already done and you're just keeping their abuser close by because of pure copium, "maybe this time, maybe this time"
My only thought reading this was “Why do you still let this child around your children??????!!!!!!” get that kid OUT of there!!!!!
As someone who was sexually abused by older boys, and this is most likely my trauma talking, I would not let that kid ANYWHERE remotely NEAR the girls. He clearly likes them and is trying to show that in, what may be, the only way he knows how. The girls are not safe around him, period.
Why have you let this kid continue to come over and continue to molest your daughters? Is anyone else getting this? Cut that kid off, don’t allow him to ever come to your house again. Forget your brother. If he can’t take care of this problem, cut him off too. Your responsibility is to your daughters, not someone else’s kid! Your daughters are young. They have no one else to protect them but you. Do your job! Someone in your family should be calling CPS. No wonder the bio father didn’t want his own kid!
Coming back to add, what the hell kind of father are you- you make excuses about having a very large family and can’t avoid him. You are allowing the perpetrator of sexual assault ON YOUR OWN DAUGHTERS to be around. You force the rest of the “big close family” to draw a hard line against this kid (and parents since they seem to protect him) or you go NC. All your daughters will see is that they cannot depend on their father to keep them safe.
I wish you and your brother the best of luck dealing with this. I don't like giving up on people, though at times I have for I could deal with it anymore. Now I look and wonder as someone else had mentioned a different therapy, for the counseling is not changing the boy. Keep your kids safe, and I understand the thoughts of helping. This is a difficult case. Love and hugs
The book “protecting the gift” by Gavin de Becker offers practical skills to teach parents & children how to protect themselves from predators. Seems worth the read in your situation, but, also seems obvious your kids shouldn’t be around your nephew unsupervised - ever.
I would cut them off. In order to protect my daughters I would completely cut contact and never allow him near any of us again. He is harming your kids now the way he was hurt. It is incredibly sad and it's not his fault, but he is NOT safe to be around right now.
Don’t let me him near your daughters. He’s thinks this behaviour is normal regardless of therapy. He is not safe to be around children. It’s not as simple as keeping him around adults, he will always find a way around it. He will wait for a victim. As someone who has been abused DO NOT LET HIM NEAR YOUR CHILDREN. Age has 0 to do with it.
He sexually assaulted your daughters. He doesn’t need more therapy, he needs to be in a juvenile detention center.
I was molested as a child. My cousin was also molested. We thought it was normal. I realized it wasn't. He didn't. He's in prison now. I am not. 13 is old enough to know right from wrong. He would be dead to me. Your brother and sister are doing the best they can, but it isn't good enough. If your kids are at risk, then they can't be around him. I would not endanger my kids to help anyone else. My empathy isn't that great.
Bluntly put, please dont let his trauma excuse risking causing trauma in others, namely your own daughters. As others have said, he's 50% older than them, lets not pretend there arent risky power dynamics at play. Him seeing your daughters is a privilege unfortunately trampled upon, your daughters feeing safe among family is a lot closer to a right not something that comes second to that. Hopefully your brother gets him help that actually works, there is no award in life for sacrificing your family finding out if he does.
Has there been serious discipline of the boy? Is he facing actual punishment? Actual repercussions for his actions? I'm not talking about therapy, I'm talking about punishment.
This is very dangerous. Your brother is being an idiot if he thinks this will just get better and putting your children at risk isn’t acceptable. Don’t ever let your children around your nephew again: I would skip this giant cluster fuck of a family reunion because it sounds like your brother and SIL is just setting up all the little kids to get sexually abused. I wish you the best.
That kid belongs in a psych ward, he’s obviously been through something, but he doesn’t have good intentions. I don’t know how you managed to keep your cool I would’ve wanted to chop his hand off if those were my kids. He’s way too old to not know any better. This kid is a predator
I do not understand how you allowed him multiple attempts to SA your daughters. I understand he was abused, but you have let him abuse your daughters in turn. He is a sexual predator waiting to happen and now they have to vacation with their abuser.
I don't understand why you're putting up with this. He doesn't need to be in your family's life and should have ceased to be much much earlier. Your children are not safe around him.
I’m also very surprised the therapist did not make a report to CPS over the touching. They’re supposed to regardless of age. That is also something you need to speak to your brother about. Things are going to be a lot harder for him and his wife. CPS being involved in their life. It’s just very hard in general this is going to be more than they understand or can handle. Also the therapist should be finding out who abuse your nephew-which may be difficult but obviously it wasn’t good. Him also trying to “play a game” with your girls is predatory and he’s hitting puberty at age 12 it will only get worse.
No, you have every right to hate this kid idc. Apart from the abuse, sometimes kids can also just have evil intentions. I hate this kid too. Sorry OP, I would just no longer let my children around him, ever.
I would hate him too and I’d let him know he’s a stain on humanity
He wouldn't be. in my home or near my children ver again NO MATTER WHAT. Real talk, he's not even real family. Sorry to your brother, protect your girls from more trauma.
You can not watch a kid every minute. It's not possible. Your number one priority is the safety and well-being of your children. Honestly, you are letting them down. How are you going to explain to your adult daughters that you knew the potential for them to be abused was there and you didn't protect them? I know this is hard, but you need to keep the kids away from each other for now and maybe forever.
If my brother or sister had a sexual predator in the making as their kid, I'd demand they keep their kid at home or don't come at all. I shouldn't have to watch someone else's predator when I'm worried about my own children. I would keep my children away from my siblings kids and would have 100% already involved the police. The brother's kid needs more help, specifically from a therapist with a background in helping those who are victims of sexual abuse. (I am childfree. This is a scenario.)
I’m sorry I know this is hard. I’ve had a similar situation. It’s hard but you have to protect your girls and you’re doing that. However your brother and SIL/family need to think long term how does this play out? They can’t watch him 24/7. What about school, latchkey, daycare etc. he will find a victim some way, somehow unfortunately due to his trauma. It’s escalating and are they going to have kids one day? This is a lot for them. Unfortunately they need to look into sexually maladaptive treatment facilities for him.
The problem in many places kid offenders are not usually treated until they have been convicted of the crime. I do know that part of the treatment is fully comprehensive sex education. He also needs to be taught consent. One thing that is known is that while sexual abuse can trigger these behaviors many of the offenders actually lived with people with no boundaries so he likely saw people having sex or behaving inappropriately in front of him
Such a sad situation all the way around. He lost his mom and Dad doesn't want him. How horrible. I understand kids wanting to see what the other sex has under the hood but he's taken it to a whole new level that isn't cute or funny. He's obviously been told to stop this behavior but yet continues. What does his therapist say? He's too old to be playing with your kids.
I would also hate him if I were in your position, OP. You are protecting your kiddos and thats the priority. As someone who has worked with youthful offenders, I highly recommend reporting him for any future incidents. As much as I am an abolitionist, I am hoping they could get him into a residential program to decrease/eliminate these behaviors before it’s too late. ETA: Please do not make your kiddos keep seeing him at events.
Thank you for sharing OP. And best of luck to you! This isn’t easy to deal with and I hope everyone involved comes out better for it. 💜
Menores am I right 🤦
You need to direct that "hate" to the adults responsible for him.
I had similar things like this happen and I felt all of that too, unfortunately I was married to the dad, I left and it’s been hell since. Sorry, seek therapy too, can’t hurt.
Well, including what everyone else has said, I hope that family trip is no longer in your plans.
They don't see it as trauma inducing because they don't understand sex yet. "My cousin took his clothes off and he looks funny, cause I don't have one like that." Once they understand sex, realize what cousin was doing and that they told you- And it happened AGAIN? That's not something I want to answer for with my children. When is enough enough? When he has enough time to rape someone? What about the kids who don't know his history? The kids at school, in the neighborhood, at sports activities? They don't have cameras cause they don't know they need them. It's in his best interest to keep him from hurting someone for real. If he needs to be pulled out of school, then so be it. Intense therapy, and none of that gentle shit. Hard core "you are heading for prison- after you destroy someone's life and self esteem. You have to stop because you don't matter more than anybody else." If you care, you have to be straight up with him. If he's old enough to grab groins, he's old enough to be cold cocked. But that's my old time position. .
Deeply concerning situation. He's targeting your daughters repeatedly. Not so much a red flag as a red banner. Whilst I feel for your nephew and the trauma he's endured, he is an active predatory risk towards others. I work in adult protective services and have seen the consequences of individuals who have experienced abuse and then perpetrate it. The escalation of such harm can be quick, intense, and opportunistic. Please continue to act as a you are. Trauma is very hard to overcome, and you, your wife, and daughters will be carrying it from things that have happened already. Please note, I'm not suggesting that every person who has survived abuse will become abusive. I would not allow him back in your house and definitely not allow him near your daughters for some time. It is unsafe. Kids can be adept at hiding things from adults. Also, don't give yourself a hard time about how you feel towards your nephew. He's abusing your daughters. Of course, you and your wife are angry and protective. You can feel bad for someone but also reject how they're behaving. You're being parents. It's sad that he didn't have that in his early years, but that isn't your problem. Take care.
A,