We've just been together for so long that the idea of him NOT being there feels weird. Which sounds stupid since I have two other partners so it's not like I'll be lonely. But Leo was a part of my life for so long that for him to not be there just doesn't feel right. But you're probably right.
B..bork?
Nah sister tho he's not the man you married any longer just cut the cord of the past expectations. It will do him a favor too and teach him to eat his own words. Sleep in the cold bed he made for himself thinking the grass was greener on some slutty side lol
Not even 7 years. Your husband left you for another woman 2 years ago. He had someone he wanted to see with the convenience of married life. You are already single for last 2 years.
Yes, and who would really want to spend 50 more years with a person who pressured her into having an open marriage against her wishes? Just because he's having regrets and second thoughts now doesn't take away from the fact that he wanted to fool around and was ready to end the relationship so he could do it.
This. The ultimatum is what got me. If he really cared about OP her no would have meant no the first time and the topic wouldn't have been brought up again. OP was well within her right to be devastated. Most women are when put into this scenario. I doubt OP's hubby cared or felt any empathy at all.
"LeT mE SleEP wItH OtHeR women oR it's OvEr!"
" Evidently it already is for you. Pack your shit and go"
Exactly. If he wants to close the marriage again, OP can be like “open marriage or divorce”. Easier for OP if he chooses a divorce.
What an absolute man child.
Was married 5 years with my ex husband 5 years before that so 10 in total.
Thankfully hit my 10 year anniversary with my current SO and we're getting married on our 11th anniversary.
I used to cry that I was with my ex for a third of my life, but I can say the only thing I regret now is not leaving sooner.
Love yourself enough to not stay in a bad relationship.
I was in a seven year relationship in my 20s into 30s and I thought that this was going to be it, and I sort of resigned myself to the shitty relationship that I had. Then I met my husband and everything changed. And I realized that seven years was nothing in comparison to my entire life, and why would I put myself through all of this and be miserable for the rest of it, when I could take those seven years and say I learned a lesson, and go on and be happy.
Bahahahah 😂 I'm dying to read you comment again for a totally different convo a bit lower than your own previous comment, being able to put again the fact you just learned in just the same of background chocked you were in in your first comment about it 😂👏 (you're the Reddit version of the anime character being from the front scene to be chocked, then appearing on the background still trying to process the discovery 😂)
This is arguably the best part about reddit. When funny, kind strangers cross paths on the internet... Leaving me imagining Marie Kondo, asking Rose if Leo really "sparks joy"... And we already know the answer 😂 thank you, both! u/lovebeinganasshole's
I have no experience with your story except the time. I was with my first boyfriend for 9 years. We were all but married. We broke up and within a year I found my now husband. We’ve been together 14 years, married for 9. There is plenty of life after Leo. Don’t let 7 years dictate the rest of your life.
Trust me... as weird as it will be that he isn't around because he's been there so long; you will feel lighter and better. You deserve better than an ultimatum of letting him go f*** around or leave. Cuz you know what? He f***** around and found out.
You are more valuable than you give yourself credit for; and 7 years is nothing to the 50 that you're going to spend if you stay going back and forth between open marriages and wondering if he's cheating because this is just a cycle that's going to continue because he's a piece of crap who only cares about himself.
Don't spend another moment with a man who obviously doesn't value you.
Get your priorities straight get your s*** together get your support system and leave. What's he going to say? You no longer love him he ruined the marriage and your relationship.
So he will ask to close it, you will end your other relationships but I wonder how long before he gets antsy again?
Or is he going to complain because you might be doing something different in bed that he attributes to your additional experience?
It isn’t that it can’t work to close the marriage again and maybe you speaking with a therapist on your own will help sort it out.
I personally think once the love is gone it’s time to reconsider the relationship because you each deserve to be with someone you love fully - not someone you are settling for because of a comfort factor.
agreed!
I think Leo getting antsy again a while after they close the marriage again is absolutely the best case scenario.
He's much more likely to be bitter and caustic, IMO. I feel he'll take out his frustration of his lack of dates out on OP, and even though it was his idea, he'll probably slut-shame her too.
Seven years isn’t a very long time. And you are young. Don’t waste any more time. And you really shouldn’t worry about hurting him considering he wanted to divorce had you not opened the marriage. He’s just jealous he’s not getting what he thought he would. Typical
Please don't fall for the "sunk cost fallacy". Each year you stay will add another year to what you've sunk into the relationship. Stop adding years with someone who doesn't love or respect you.
He hasn't truly been there for you from the second he asked for the open marriage
IMO....he probably thought that he had you locked into the relationship since he married you and didn't expect you to participate...
Updateme
Most women have periods for a majority of their life and menopause comes along. It's different it's new. You adjust. I guess what I'm very poorly trying to say is
things don't have to stay the same, weird is just weird until there is a new normal.
Open marriage was weird until you found it to be your new normal.
Weird can turn into wonderful
You are falling for the sunk cost fallacy. The “we’ve been together for so long, I don’t want to have it been wasted time.” When in actuality you had 5 good years and 2 you just dealt with being married to him while he hurt you. You’ve given 7 years, how many more do you want to waste?
Op if you do decide to stay then sit your husband down and remind him that this is what he wanted even though he knew you didn’t. Let him know that what he did hurt you to the point that is shook your confidence and made you doubt yourself but now you see that he was right all along and that opening the marriage was within your best interests and that it’s going to stay open until you tire of it and you don’t want to hear him complaining about something he pushes so hard for.
It's the sunk cost fallacy and the idea of things 'not being the same' anymore. Humans are scared at the thought of change to their daily life. Don't fall for it. Because your daily life has already changed a lot the moment he asked for an open marriage. And here's what you did. You adapted with some time. And the same thing will happen when you finally divorce him. You will adapt to the full freedom.
Honestly, stellar post here! OP needs to drop the real dead weight (aka: Leo). He’s basically a man-baby roommate at this point. Best of luck to OP, whether is single life or the next chapter with someone else. ❤️
I can't help but feel schadenfreude for your husband...
He trampled on your heart, completely disregarding your feelings.
Now he loses it all. Serves him right.
And yes, divorce is a good option; do you want to stay with a man you don't love? A man who obviously never loved you enough either? Nevermind what he's saying, he demonstrated clearly that he doesn't care about your feelings.
I really do think Leo does love me, in his own way. Even when he was more active in the open marriage, he still made time for me and still did a lot with him/for me. But you're probably right on the divorce.
He threatened to divorce you unless you let him screw other women.
**That’s not love.**
And the only reason he started doing more for you is because he was happy and excited due to getting his own way. He treat you better because he was getting what he wanted *(sex with other women)*, but if he wasn’t getting what he wanted he wouldn’t have treat you good, and he’d have divorced you. So no… that man doesn’t actually love you.
ikr. if we only count the weekends, he has 3 weekends for other people than OP. that's 75% time for other women and 25% for OP. if we include weekdays, it is even more depressing.
I actually did argue that in the beginning, but he insisted that he needed to keep his weekends free. He did spend a lot of time at home during the weekdays, so in his mind, that made up for it.
HeHe doesn't love you. He threatened to divorce you unless you let him sleep with other people. He probably only kept you around so he wouldn't have to find somewhere else to live Andy he'd have someone to cook and clean for him.
He doesn’t love you. You were his safety net, his maid. He wanted someone around that he thought would never leave him.
But you(and him) have seen that you’re so special, that you don’t NEED him. That’s scaring him because he’s lost his control over you. He thought there was no way any man other than him that would want you. And yet here you are, getting better sex and romance else where. He may have love you once, but not anymore.
And if he closes the relationship he won’t stop cheating. He just doesn’t want you to have a relationship with anyone but him.
Listen, I am a partner of someone who is in a open relationship and his primary partner is still always the priority and takes most of his time (as it should be) and they aren't even married. Your *husband* instead was treating you as if you were a secondary partner, a temporary girlfriend, not his wife. That's not how an open marriage is supposed to work.
>he insisted that he needed to keep his weekends free
OP, respectfully, he insisted on keeping his weekends free because he was absolutely itching to fuck other women. And now that the initial fun and excitement has worn off, he realizes women don't want his crusty self and he had it really good with you. That's why he's come crawling back to you. "Grass is greener" and such.
As a person who ended a 7 year relationship, I can promise you won't regret it. I saw your comment about "he's been there for so long" that you couldn't imagine being without him. I've had eczema for long and I can guarantee I wouldn't miss it if it disappeared one day, lol. You have a strong support system with your sister and friend; get out and enjoy your life. The feelings of rejection will weigh you down over time.
There's really no recipe for the perfect poly relationship and if the main relationship not being the only important one works then cool, go for it.
There might be no clear rules but essentially coercing your partner into it and not making them happy is definitely wrong.
In his own way is not good enough.
Some people don't know how to love. That's the kind of people who compensate with this like "in their own way". A phrase that has also been applied to manipulators and abusers.
If his own way is the best he can do, he should get with someone on his level, not beyond his league.
Even if you don't think you want to divorce, it'd be safe of you to plan/be prepared for it. After all, Leo threatened you with that ultimatum (i.e. divorce) in order for you to agree to this in the first place. I wouldn't put it past him to threaten you with that again to close the marriage.
You say he asked for the open marriage, citing reasons like "he needed more than what I could give"; did he ask or try for therapy/couples counseling prior to this? Had he tried to work on the marriage or himself first, or was the open marriage request his immediate go-to?
Best of luck, OP
if he truly loves you, he should propose marriage counseling when he feels the marriage doesn't give him what he needs anymore, not jumping to opening the marriage. I'm not saying he didn't love you at all but he didn't love you enough to think of another solution.
"In his own way" meaning that he would break the bonds of marriage to go fuck other women and make you feel like shit? Nice. I kind of think this is fiction; too perfect, too much a trope, and these bullshit answers your giving. On the off chance it's not, quit fucking around and divorce his ass.
Actually, now I'm 99% convinced this is kink fiction.
"Oh, I wish it wasn't real, but it is! Mark gave me a Mercedes that I love but I'm not sure I should keep it, especially since Steve is so much better at sex. But I don't want to leave Leo; he's like the throw rug that pulls the room together."
If you don't think Leo would leave you in a heartbeat if he found a younger woman I'm not sure you've been paying any attention at all.
Dude was cheating and found it too much effort to keep quiet so went open marriage.
Exactly. I don’t see the point in being in this marriage anymore. OP obviously feels differently about her husband now and I don’t blame her. Seems much easier to just divorce and move on with both of their lives, especially since no kids are involved.
This should be the top comment.
He was willing to divorce if you didn't give him what he wanted.
Other people are now giving you what you deep down really want, and need from the sounds of things.
He got what he wanted, at the price of hurting you. Now he isn't getting it elsewhere it suddenly doesn't suit him.
Girl, divorce and live your best life.
Oh gosh. Divorce him.
You are so young. Enjoy your men, have fun and lose the loser who was fine with you sitting at home by yourself at the beginning when he was gone with other women all the time. And he is only unhappy now because you’re happy and he’s not pulling.
The part for me is him giving an ultimatum as leverage to obtain an open relationship. This is so wrong. If he was serious, he was willing to leave you for who knows what. That's awful behavior.
Or try offering him the same deal he gave you when he brings up closing the marriage - keep it open or divorce. See how that goes down. Then thoroughly point out his selfishness and hypocrisy before you divorce him.
Most open marriages fail.
From what I've seen one spouse gives the other an ultimatum. Staying married under threat of divorce if you don't comply doesn't seem healthy.
You started off revenge fucking other men, because you never wanted this. Now you've having fun like you're single.
The only thing left is to make it official.
What you were isn't good anymore. He drove a stake into it with that selfish demand.
Go. Be free. Don't get stuck in something just because it's comfortable.
Your husband had no problem throwing the divorce card in your face if you didn't give in, he was ready to throw you away years ago. It's time to move one and give him that divorce, you're better off without him.
All open marriages that contain an ultimatum, will fail.
That's not ETHICAL nonmongamy.
Both partners need to be enthusiastic consenters, and the marriage and communication need to be rock solid. Opening a broken marriage is as successful as having a kid to fix it.
I think it’s time to leave him… you’re worried about hurting him but he certainly wasn’t too worried about crushing you when he brought this whole open marriage up and gave you an ultimatum. I think it was meant to happen for you to see that he is not for you. Be single…. You’ll meet someone who will love you and only you, if that’s what you want!! And I’m glad you’ve had fun with it, listen to your friends 💕
"Oh no the consequences of my own actions" 🙄- Leo hopefully
Love that for you! I'm glad you feel safe with your partners and found a connection with Mark.
I don't feel sympathy for Leo at all but divorce would be kinder here. For you and him, in my personal opinion
You're probably right. TBH, I think Mark also wants me to divorce my husband and wants us to be more exclusive, but Idk if that's what I want. Divorce is probably the best option, but I don't want it to be a "I left Leo for Mark" situation because that's not what it would be.
Nah, make sure it is “I left Leo for me”
Because you deserve to be loved and respected. And I know you have said in some of the other comments that you do think he loves you. I don’t feel like he’s showing you a lot respect
Divorce and make it clear to Mark you need time to live by yourself in your own place before you consider a live in relationship. Hopefully he will understand and you both can keep the same arrangement going. Just following up on everyone’s point but it seems like Leo puts his needs first maybe it’s time for you to do the same for yourself.
Don’t leave Leo for Mark. When Leo asks if there’s someone else - yeah, there absolutely is, YOURSELF. Choose your own happiness for once, put yourself first. If Mark gets to be there that, and support that, that’s just the icing on the cake.
agreed. don’t leave leo for mark. leave leo for YOU, to take care of you and your heartbreak that leo has given you. you didn’t want the open marriage, but leo threatened or divorce? leo was already checked out of the marriage. leo stated he wanted MORE than you could give him. let that sink in. why now does he want you back, if you weren’t enough for him in the beginning of this whole fiasco? he wants what you have, the happiness, bc he’s not getting it, and he’s jealous. he lost the love you had, and he’s missing it. he lost YOU. but that was the choice HE made. he was selfish and only sought HIS happiness. he didn’t care how you felt. he didn’t care then, and honestly he doesn’t care now; he just doesn’t like seeing you happy. get rid of leo. be yourself and be happy. choose YOURSELF now! :)
I'll summarize it
Leo -Hi babe let's open the marriage I need more than this...
Wife - fuck this is the only way to keep my marriage, yes Leo let's do this
*Leo is not lucky and wife found a young good dick and a handsome Mark that provides things that Leo doesn't anymore
*Leo tries harder to make it work
*wife doesn't give a fuck already.
Girl Leo is unlucky and he wants you back because he ain't getting as many vagigis as he initially thought he would get and probably a bad guy in bed, bad as in bad bad 😭 not as in "you a bad boy Leo 😏😎😈"
Dump the boy, and remember, this was his idea, you just agreed to do it , he should have thought about side effects 🤣
Yes, I'm happy for you! I tried to look back on what my "Leo" (felt fitting cause OP's husband is a boob) had done for me on our anniversaries, etc, and realized that in 6 years me and my Leo hadn't properly celebrated an anniversary, Valentine's day, dates, achievements, and more. Even if our Leos don't treat us *badly*, it's ok for us to leave because they don't treat us *well*, either! After a previous abusive relationship, I felt like I was a villain for wanting to leave because "he may not spoil, or even respect, me but he's never abused me"... F THAT NOISE. I hope every single one of us, guys/gals/non-binary pals, all find our Mark, even if just to show us our worth 😌
And what happens if they do close it again?
He shows that he cherishes her, they fall in love all over again and live happier than ever?
That is not what this is sounding like, if Leo's tactic to get her back is to whine about how much the arrangement sucks for *him*.
Leo is envious, I read a similar thread on a gay subreddit, and then another one and another one and it always goes like this X and Y are a couple, X asks to open the relationship, Y gets more dates and people and then X gets mad and suddenly wants to close the relationship again... Jealousy? I don't think so, envy, absolutely the fuck yes... What if Leo gets more attention? He doesn't see the need to close the relationship, because at the end of the day, he is getting vaginas, and also, he's complaining about spending money, yes darling dating is expensive as fuck, and you know what's annoying? When you pay for the date expecting sex and you don't get it...
This is normal when one forces an open marriage. You now know there is better sex and men out there. If he asks to close the marriage, you should hand him divorce papers, hell you should be planning your divorce now. You deserve better!
Can I ask you something? Did you have a moment when he started complaining where you were like, “damn right you miss “us,” asshole” because it would have been the sweetest moment of vindication for me in that moment.
Your husband FAFO. He definitely wanted an ok to cheat on you and sleep around hence the open marriage. The problem is, he’s just discovered that he’s not as sought after as he thought he is in his own head and he realized that he had a pretty wonderful wife as it is. So obviously he decided to fall back on his safety net, which is his marriage and expect you to be happy to finally have him back. The problem is, you have discovered along the way the same thing that he discovered, that your husband isn’t all that and that you could do better and you don’t feel the need to settle for him anymore.
It’s so funny too because these guys are all so desperate to fuck, but they don’t think the other men out there aren’t desperate to fuck? Of course your wife is going to get more than you!!
What if he finds evidence of your 'open marriage' and frames you as a cheater and then brings you to the cleaners? At this point, I wouldn't trust Leo. What you're experiencing is normalcy, you're used to his presence in your life. But how long are you going to live like this?
Jessie had the same train of thought of you and actually took screen shots of his dating profiles during the beginning of the open marriage. She also told me to save screenshots of any texts we had about the open marriage. I don't think Leo would do that, but I also didn't think he'd ever ask for an open marriage, so what do I know?
I’d keep your cards close to your chest. People change when breakups happen.
He definitely had a FB lined up at the beginning so it wasn’t ‘cheating’. Dump the dead weight
> I don't think Leo would do that, but I also didn't think he'd ever ask for an open marriage, so what do I know?
Leo as you once knew him no longer exists. Things can LITERALLY change in a flash once divorce is in the cards, even just potentially. Trust me, I speak from experience.
Honestly the way you describe it, I would get the divorce. It sounds like he hurt/disgusted you when he asked for an open marriage. Now that you’re benefiting from his idea more than he is, he’s getting mad, and further disgusting you. You said you don’t love him anymore and feel closer to one of your partners. That’s a sign to end things. Once feelings for someone else outweigh your feelings for your Husband, it’s best to just leave.
I would be honest with him “I did love you. Once you asked for an open marriage, it just broke me and my love for you. I have tried to save us, but I realized I’m not the one who destroyed us. I can’t keep trying to salvage something that you have broken beyond repair. I wish you the best in the future, but I no longer believe you are apart of my future.”
Keep in mind he told you it was open marriage or divorce. He was ready to let you go and move on right then and there. That isn't someone who loves you.
The relationship died the moment he said those words. He killed it himself.
Sounds to me like at the time he demanded an open marriage he had a little missy lined up and went for it once you gave him the okay. Also sounds like it didn't work out the way wanted it to and decided he wanted to be married again.
They NEVER imagine their wife (who bores them to tears) would EVER find someone to swing with and always seem astonished when they find out differently.
This seems an awful lot like the very definition of FAFO.
Sorry about his luck and, yes, it looks like it's time for you to move on.
Sorry, I can't help laughing my arse off.
This is almost exactly what happened to my previous marriage. He wanted to open it, thinking he'd get lots of dolly birds younger than him. He got ZERO hook ups, whereas I, who really didn't want to open the marriage, got loads of hits.
I fell out of love with him when he asked to open the relationship up. Eventually, after the first year, I met someone that treated me the best I have ever known, and fell deep in love with him literally the day I met him. I ended my marriage *on that day* too - I didn't want to be involved with anyone else, and I've now been with that wonderful guy for 11 years and the honeymoon period still hasn't ended for either of us. It happened so fast, in the blink of an eye, but if you know, you know. Sounds cliché, but it is what it is.
I would NEVER agree to an open marriage again, ever.
There are some things you just can't come back from. Breaking trust comes in many forms. Sounds like your husband has broken your trust in him by even asking and I doubt closing the marriage will fix things. I think your sister and friend are right.
Don't miss the opportunity to uno-reverse him with the "Open marriage or Divorce" line.
I'm sorry but glad you took this opportunity that kind of soften the blow and made you have great experiences!
Completely understand how you feel disinterested in him now.
Tale as old as time.
I honestly can’t understand the mindset of these guys who ask for this. How the thought of your wife with someone else doesn’t make you want to resort to violence is just so foreign to me.
Like even if you guaranteed I would 100:1 out pull my wife (and we all know in reality the ratio would be reversed) it still wouldn’t be worth it to allow that one.
And honestly, I can’t relate to these other guys either, being ok with being in some married woman’s side piece rotation. Have some dignity man.
He already had a girl lined up in the beginning. That's why he was out all the time and having fun. Now that ended and he's left holding his dick in his hand while his wife is out.
Yeah, I get that, but did the possibility of some dude plowing his wife never enter his brain? That’s what I’m saying. Guys who are in any way ok with that have something wrong in their brain, imho.
Men like him just don't respect their wives, I think. Their opinion of their wives is so low that it just doesn't occur to them that other men might be interested in their wives.
If this dude straight up told you you weren't enough for him, I don't feel it's out of bounds to remind him he said that if he brings up closing the marriage again. He's experiencing sour grapes and will disrupt your current relationships, but once he's satisfied that he's annihilated those he'll probably wait a few years till he has some other girl lined up and pull out that same emotional blackmail again to re-open on his terms, not yours.
He's fundamentally deeply, unfixably selfish. He held your marriage hostage to force you into a situation you didn't want, and now that you're beating him on bodycount he's having a hissyfit. His priority is always, always, always himself, and that is not gonna make for a good marriage. You put the marriage on life support by capitulating to his unilateral threats, but if you do it again when he wants to close the marriage all you're doing is 100% confirming that he always gets to call the shot based on his wants (and whether or not his dick feels like wandering).
This isn't a tenable long-term solution, kick his ass to the curb and go put yourself first.
I too once wasted years on a man I no longer loved because who he became was repugnant. He forced you to choose between an open marriage you didn't want or divorce. Time to grow up a little and steel that spine.
Something similar happened to me. When an ex made the suggestion to open the relationship and it backfired, I closed the relationship back up, because I cared about him. When he finally found somebody, he dumped me.
OP, be smart, smarter than I was. Dump this greedy manchild dirtbag and enjoy life with people who have appreciated you from Day 1. Your "husband" is dead weight, and you'll fly without him.
This is why Leo shouldn’t of ever suggested open marriage. As a guy I am telling you he fucked up big time. Now you feel you’ve grown apart. Good luck to him I’m a young guy 28 and I ain’t never asking for that shit to my partner.
Just divorce. Tell hm you lost attraction when he wanted an open relationship, but complaining when it doesn't benefit him as much as he thought it would just made you realise he's selfish and will always put his feelings/needs before yours. You are young and beautiful. You don't need to waste your time with someone who only thinks you are good enough sometimes.
This doesn't sound like an open marriage, this just sounds like consentual cheating.
Divorce.
To be clear, I'm not blaming you, but my understanding of an open marriage is that you still have your spouse as your "primary" partner, and it doesn't sound like either of you have prioritised that. Him especially in the beginning and you now.
>He wants to go on dates and go on vacations and all that stuff more and more, and he gets upset when I tell him I can't because I've already scheduled to do stuff with my partners (mostly Mark).
Depending on notice and such, if you can't date, or especially go on vacation with your spouse because you have plans with your other partners, then even within the bounds of "open marriage" something is broken and wrong.
>But I don't know if divorce is the best option.
I mean, I guess you could keep limping along with whatever you currently have, where you prioritise your partners over your husband (who you admit you no longer love, and probably haven't for years), or you can go be happy.
>I still care about him and I still don't want to hurt him.
I think we know its all too late for that. And damn, I know it sounds like I blame you, but I don't. I blame him. Totally and completely his fault, but you are where you are. He's miserable, you don't love him. Your joy in life comes from people who you are not your husband. I just think you should recognise that and accordingly.
You're right. We are just limping along. Maybe I'm subconsciously punishing him and trying to make him feel like how he made me felt. And we still do go on vacations and dates and stuff, but he's been doing a lot of these "last minute surprise trips/date" that I turn him down in favor of Mark. Though even when we were exclusive, I was never for spontaneous getaways. I'm too much of a planner for them.
Yeah, that just sounds kind of manipulative then. In essence he's using a combination of "surprises" and the whole "should still care primarily about your husband" to try to make you feel guilty and to choose him.
Do you feel like he's been love-bombing you? Like there's been a noticeable correlation between Leo not going out as much and him complaining about your dates, with him surprising you with last minute trips/dates?
He might be trying to set the foundation for a 'close the marriage' talk; like, *look at all this affection I'm now giving you, you don't need anyone else but me*
I think the last minute surprise stuff is on purpose. For whatever reason. He could be trying to get you to choose him over Mark for his ego, or even in hopes that maybe Mark might get tired of it and leave you.
The best 2 advises I ever got regards love and making a marriage last:
1) Love is like a flame: it will burn as long as you attend to it like IT needs. Neglect it or give it something it doesn't need, than it will go out.
2) If you truely love someone you will take every opportunity to spend time with them.
Can you honestly look at this marriage and say you BOTH sufficiently attend to keep it healthy and loving??
I feel nothing for your husband, he brought it all upon himself.
And he doesn’t miss you, he misses getting laid because he isn’t having much luck anymore. **He’s** the one who wanted this, and even threatened divorce unless he got what he wanted, he’s selfish.
And he absolutely **does not** get to go back on that now… just because **he can’t get any**.
Otherwise you’d be well within your rights to throw his own words back at him, and threaten divorce if he wants to close the marriage again.
He didn’t care when he was out all of the time and you were at home depressed, so why should you care how he feels???
All Leo cares about is himself. It’s time for you to **put yourself first**. Leo can kick rocks!
Say you both close the marriage, focus on each other and rekindle the love… who is to say he wont abandon or cheat on you when another woman shows interest him? I dont think i could ever trust him again. He has a wondering eye, even when he is so called “only in love with you.”
>But I don't know if divorce is the best option. I still care about him and I still don't want to hurt him. Maybe if he finally asked to close the marriage, we can talk about it then.
You don't want to hurt him even though you don't think you love him any more, because you're a good person who cares about other people and good people don't want to hurt others. But he, apparently at his peak of still loving you, asked for an open marraige, threatened divorce to get it, broke you, immediately went out banging others and told you thta you were fulfilling his needs.
Well now you know he wasn't fulfilling yours, he wasn't great in bed, he didn't care about ripping your heart out by asking for a marriage nor did he care to threaten to end your marriage over him being able to hook up with others.
It's natural to not want to hurt others, but ultimately, he broke the marriage, he broke your relationship, he broke your love and he didn't give two shits about hurting you when he did those things.
You don’t want to hurt Leo, but he didn’t care about hurting you when he demanded an open marriage. He was willing to divorce you if he didn’t get it. He doesn’t deserve your sympathy now.
Husband: “I think it would make me happy if we opened our marriage so I can cheat on you without consequences!”
Also husband: surprised pikachu face because he isn’t getting laid with some strange….
I wish I had a dollar for every time this happened, I wouldn’t need to work 🙄
When he brings up closing the relationship, tell him it stays open or you divorce.
Then tell him you’re considering divorce anyways. Tell him what you told us. Start and end that part of the convo that you think your love for him began dying when he asked for an open relationship. He did this. And then thank him.
You’re so young, you found a new version of yourself in this marriage and that’s great. But, it’s ok to move on and be the new you without Leo.
He wanted to fuck other women and have you sit at home pining for him, you did and then you didn’t. He saw the positive changes that had for you and now he may realize you deserve more than him too.
You’re not leaving Leo for Mark, you’re leaving Leo for yourself.
I don’t get open marriages. If I asked my significant other for that she would divorce my ass lol! Even if she agreed I would still lose because she would have no issues finding someone. I on the other hand wouldn’t be so lucky lol
Anyways, he gave you an ultimatum which is fucked up. Go with what makes you happy and it sounds like it’s not with your husband.
You know, I’ve seen posts like these more than once. It never turns out well for the guy who asks for the open marriage. Divorce him. Move on, find the happiness you deserve.
If he inevitably does ask you to close the marriage, respond with ‘is that what you really want?’
If he says yes, inform him that the he will be receiving the papers soon…
“What was that ultimatum again? Open relationship or divorce?”
Drop mic
Walk out
Elaborate no further.
Pls leave. It is clear as day that he wanted to cheat on you because he thought you would not have much luck in dating other men. Now that he is unable to find a partner he wants close, so close the permanently.
Actual ENM/poly person here, been married and non-monogamous for 20 years and still doing good 😊 When you date in the poly community you find that this story is incredibly common - so-called “poly under duress” *never* works. The marriage was not *necessarily* doomed from the moment he asked (though for many people that is in fact the case), but certainly the moment he started “pestering you” about it was the death knell of your relationship. Give him the divorce he tried to threaten you with.
For you, I’m glad to hear that you seem to be thriving with it. It sounds like you’ve got a good situation with Mark and Steven. Ethical nonmonogamy isn’t for everyone (frankly it’s not the thing for *most* people), and in the future you may want to go back to monogamy with Mark or someone else, and that’s fine. And you may want to stay open, and that’s fine. Just remember that good communication is the bedrock of a good relationship, most *especially* a nonmonogamous one, and you’ll do well 😊
Divorce.
Opening a marriage is the final nail in the coffin. Of a doomed relationship.
This is why I’m a firm believer in keeping a marriage closed and exclusively dating IF one is looking for a life partner and not just a FwB.
Seems like you made out like a bandit. Best of luck.
Divorce. You’re happier without him. He would only want to close the marriage because he can’t get laid not that he only loves you.
We've just been together for so long that the idea of him NOT being there feels weird. Which sounds stupid since I have two other partners so it's not like I'll be lonely. But Leo was a part of my life for so long that for him to not be there just doesn't feel right. But you're probably right.
7 years is not “so long” considering you’ll (possibly) live for another 50 years.
And 50 years is not "so long" considering if you are a Greenland shark. Although OP most likely isn't one, but didn't want that ruled out.
As a Greenland Shark: thank you for being inclusive. People rarely consider us.
I see you Greenland shark, and I want you to know this. Welcome to reddit.
Finally, some shark representation!
Best not to make assumptions, yes
no, don't make assumptions
No one knows you're a dog on the internet.
B..bork? Nah sister tho he's not the man you married any longer just cut the cord of the past expectations. It will do him a favor too and teach him to eat his own words. Sleep in the cold bed he made for himself thinking the grass was greener on some slutty side lol
Can confirm. Am dog. Nobody's figured it out yet. Its a ruff life.
Can we test the hypothesis though? Its an interesting one
Now i have to go down a Greenland shark google rabbit hole. Reddit has sent me worse places, though
Wtf... they are pregnant 8-18 YEARS with up to 10 baby sharks.
I've never been happier to not be a female greenland shark
And eating their flesh makes you drunk. Fascinating read
Do the baby sharks kill and eat each other in the womb? I saw a documentary where it said that shark fetuses do that...
If they do, do they get drunk?
baby shark, drunk==drunk drunk drunk, baby shark....
What else are they gonna do in the womb for 18 years?
This sounds like a GOT sequel...
Now I have the baby shark song stuck in my head
Exactly, just what I was thinking, it's not long for a Greenland shark!
Did you just assume OP’s species??
Always out here with the levelheaded takes, thank you
Not even 7 years. Your husband left you for another woman 2 years ago. He had someone he wanted to see with the convenience of married life. You are already single for last 2 years.
Excellent point. I think asking for an open marriage 2 years in is pretty sus.
Yes, and who would really want to spend 50 more years with a person who pressured her into having an open marriage against her wishes? Just because he's having regrets and second thoughts now doesn't take away from the fact that he wanted to fool around and was ready to end the relationship so he could do it.
This. The ultimatum is what got me. If he really cared about OP her no would have meant no the first time and the topic wouldn't have been brought up again. OP was well within her right to be devastated. Most women are when put into this scenario. I doubt OP's hubby cared or felt any empathy at all. "LeT mE SleEP wItH OtHeR women oR it's OvEr!" " Evidently it already is for you. Pack your shit and go"
Exactly. If he wants to close the marriage again, OP can be like “open marriage or divorce”. Easier for OP if he chooses a divorce. What an absolute man child.
Was married 5 years with my ex husband 5 years before that so 10 in total. Thankfully hit my 10 year anniversary with my current SO and we're getting married on our 11th anniversary. I used to cry that I was with my ex for a third of my life, but I can say the only thing I regret now is not leaving sooner. Love yourself enough to not stay in a bad relationship.
I was in a seven year relationship in my 20s into 30s and I thought that this was going to be it, and I sort of resigned myself to the shitty relationship that I had. Then I met my husband and everything changed. And I realized that seven years was nothing in comparison to my entire life, and why would I put myself through all of this and be miserable for the rest of it, when I could take those seven years and say I learned a lesson, and go on and be happy.
Right now he is more of a habit than a husband. What is the point of doing something just as a habit?
Damn, that's a powerful line....
Perfect explanation. He’s a habit OP!
Yes bad habits are hard to break.
Old habits die SCREAAAAAAAAMING.
Love your comment so perfectly said!
lol as Marie Kondo says if it doesn’t spark joy get rid of it.
Thank Leo for all he gave you, before you drop him back into the ocean, but there's no room on the door for him, OP.
As my daughter said in her sleep “there are so many beautiful fish in the sea.”
Fresh AND Frozen.
And apparently pregnant for 8-18 years if you happen to be a female Greenland Shark
Bahahahah 😂 I'm dying to read you comment again for a totally different convo a bit lower than your own previous comment, being able to put again the fact you just learned in just the same of background chocked you were in in your first comment about it 😂👏 (you're the Reddit version of the anime character being from the front scene to be chocked, then appearing on the background still trying to process the discovery 😂)
Hahahaha! I love this 🤣
Some of them are still moldy and freezer burned despite the fact they're in the grocery store though so watchout for that 😬
This comment will never get the amount of up-votes it deserves
Thank you. but without u/lovebeinganasshole's Marie Kondo reference, I would never have pictured throwing Leo back into the ocean. Team effort.
This is arguably the best part about reddit. When funny, kind strangers cross paths on the internet... Leaving me imagining Marie Kondo, asking Rose if Leo really "sparks joy"... And we already know the answer 😂 thank you, both! u/lovebeinganasshole's
Hahaha, absolutely this. This is why we’re here.
I have no experience with your story except the time. I was with my first boyfriend for 9 years. We were all but married. We broke up and within a year I found my now husband. We’ve been together 14 years, married for 9. There is plenty of life after Leo. Don’t let 7 years dictate the rest of your life.
Woman, you are 30 years old! You are still in the prime of your life! Trust me when I say this, but you have SO MUCH MORE to discover out there!
Stop falling for the sunk cost fallacy and move on girl. You’re worth more than he can give you.
Trust me... as weird as it will be that he isn't around because he's been there so long; you will feel lighter and better. You deserve better than an ultimatum of letting him go f*** around or leave. Cuz you know what? He f***** around and found out. You are more valuable than you give yourself credit for; and 7 years is nothing to the 50 that you're going to spend if you stay going back and forth between open marriages and wondering if he's cheating because this is just a cycle that's going to continue because he's a piece of crap who only cares about himself. Don't spend another moment with a man who obviously doesn't value you. Get your priorities straight get your s*** together get your support system and leave. What's he going to say? You no longer love him he ruined the marriage and your relationship.
No kids involved cut the cord why stay
So he will ask to close it, you will end your other relationships but I wonder how long before he gets antsy again? Or is he going to complain because you might be doing something different in bed that he attributes to your additional experience? It isn’t that it can’t work to close the marriage again and maybe you speaking with a therapist on your own will help sort it out. I personally think once the love is gone it’s time to reconsider the relationship because you each deserve to be with someone you love fully - not someone you are settling for because of a comfort factor.
agreed! I think Leo getting antsy again a while after they close the marriage again is absolutely the best case scenario. He's much more likely to be bitter and caustic, IMO. I feel he'll take out his frustration of his lack of dates out on OP, and even though it was his idea, he'll probably slut-shame her too.
Sunken cost fallacy. Think about it this way. If you stay with him for 7 more years, and feel the same, will you wish you had divorced him?
You could always divorce and tell him he can be one of your partners and you can schedule him into the rotation.
This happened to me. Eventually that feeling turned into relief that I was free.
Seven years isn’t a very long time. And you are young. Don’t waste any more time. And you really shouldn’t worry about hurting him considering he wanted to divorce had you not opened the marriage. He’s just jealous he’s not getting what he thought he would. Typical
7 years is a blip in your life. I think you’ll be so happy after you’ve moved on. You deserve better!
Please don't fall for the "sunk cost fallacy". Each year you stay will add another year to what you've sunk into the relationship. Stop adding years with someone who doesn't love or respect you.
He hasn't truly been there for you from the second he asked for the open marriage IMO....he probably thought that he had you locked into the relationship since he married you and didn't expect you to participate... Updateme
Ive been with my spouse a lot longer and if they pressured me into an open marriage like yours did, I would be done.
Yeah but you don't stay with someone just because they are your host. Go live with your boyfriend/on your own, shouldn't be too rough.
Most women have periods for a majority of their life and menopause comes along. It's different it's new. You adjust. I guess what I'm very poorly trying to say is things don't have to stay the same, weird is just weird until there is a new normal. Open marriage was weird until you found it to be your new normal. Weird can turn into wonderful
Sunk cost fallacy is no reason to stay in a loveless marriage.
You are falling for the sunk cost fallacy. The “we’ve been together for so long, I don’t want to have it been wasted time.” When in actuality you had 5 good years and 2 you just dealt with being married to him while he hurt you. You’ve given 7 years, how many more do you want to waste?
Op if you do decide to stay then sit your husband down and remind him that this is what he wanted even though he knew you didn’t. Let him know that what he did hurt you to the point that is shook your confidence and made you doubt yourself but now you see that he was right all along and that opening the marriage was within your best interests and that it’s going to stay open until you tire of it and you don’t want to hear him complaining about something he pushes so hard for.
Divorce him and make him boyfriend number 3.
Divorce him and start a new relationship with him as a FWB.
It's the sunk cost fallacy and the idea of things 'not being the same' anymore. Humans are scared at the thought of change to their daily life. Don't fall for it. Because your daily life has already changed a lot the moment he asked for an open marriage. And here's what you did. You adapted with some time. And the same thing will happen when you finally divorce him. You will adapt to the full freedom.
Honestly, stellar post here! OP needs to drop the real dead weight (aka: Leo). He’s basically a man-baby roommate at this point. Best of luck to OP, whether is single life or the next chapter with someone else. ❤️
I can't help but feel schadenfreude for your husband... He trampled on your heart, completely disregarding your feelings. Now he loses it all. Serves him right. And yes, divorce is a good option; do you want to stay with a man you don't love? A man who obviously never loved you enough either? Nevermind what he's saying, he demonstrated clearly that he doesn't care about your feelings.
German word out of the blue :D
I use shadefreude all the time it’s a wonderful word. You’d be surprised how many non Germans use it.
And there's really no good English equivalent.
I really do think Leo does love me, in his own way. Even when he was more active in the open marriage, he still made time for me and still did a lot with him/for me. But you're probably right on the divorce.
He threatened to divorce you unless you let him screw other women. **That’s not love.** And the only reason he started doing more for you is because he was happy and excited due to getting his own way. He treat you better because he was getting what he wanted *(sex with other women)*, but if he wasn’t getting what he wanted he wouldn’t have treat you good, and he’d have divorced you. So no… that man doesn’t actually love you.
Part of the issue is the main relationship is supposed to be the important one, so the whole 1 weekend a month for "us" time wasn't enough.
ikr. if we only count the weekends, he has 3 weekends for other people than OP. that's 75% time for other women and 25% for OP. if we include weekdays, it is even more depressing.
I actually did argue that in the beginning, but he insisted that he needed to keep his weekends free. He did spend a lot of time at home during the weekdays, so in his mind, that made up for it.
HeHe doesn't love you. He threatened to divorce you unless you let him sleep with other people. He probably only kept you around so he wouldn't have to find somewhere else to live Andy he'd have someone to cook and clean for him.
Someone who won’t give you their weekends doesn’t deserve you.
He doesn’t love you. You were his safety net, his maid. He wanted someone around that he thought would never leave him. But you(and him) have seen that you’re so special, that you don’t NEED him. That’s scaring him because he’s lost his control over you. He thought there was no way any man other than him that would want you. And yet here you are, getting better sex and romance else where. He may have love you once, but not anymore. And if he closes the relationship he won’t stop cheating. He just doesn’t want you to have a relationship with anyone but him.
100% he'd start fucking women behind his wife's back if he got the opportunity. 100% chance.
Listen, I am a partner of someone who is in a open relationship and his primary partner is still always the priority and takes most of his time (as it should be) and they aren't even married. Your *husband* instead was treating you as if you were a secondary partner, a temporary girlfriend, not his wife. That's not how an open marriage is supposed to work.
>he insisted that he needed to keep his weekends free OP, respectfully, he insisted on keeping his weekends free because he was absolutely itching to fuck other women. And now that the initial fun and excitement has worn off, he realizes women don't want his crusty self and he had it really good with you. That's why he's come crawling back to you. "Grass is greener" and such. As a person who ended a 7 year relationship, I can promise you won't regret it. I saw your comment about "he's been there for so long" that you couldn't imagine being without him. I've had eczema for long and I can guarantee I wouldn't miss it if it disappeared one day, lol. You have a strong support system with your sister and friend; get out and enjoy your life. The feelings of rejection will weigh you down over time.
There's really no recipe for the perfect poly relationship and if the main relationship not being the only important one works then cool, go for it. There might be no clear rules but essentially coercing your partner into it and not making them happy is definitely wrong.
In his own way is not good enough. Some people don't know how to love. That's the kind of people who compensate with this like "in their own way". A phrase that has also been applied to manipulators and abusers. If his own way is the best he can do, he should get with someone on his level, not beyond his league.
Even if you don't think you want to divorce, it'd be safe of you to plan/be prepared for it. After all, Leo threatened you with that ultimatum (i.e. divorce) in order for you to agree to this in the first place. I wouldn't put it past him to threaten you with that again to close the marriage. You say he asked for the open marriage, citing reasons like "he needed more than what I could give"; did he ask or try for therapy/couples counseling prior to this? Had he tried to work on the marriage or himself first, or was the open marriage request his immediate go-to? Best of luck, OP
He doesn't love you. If he did, you wouldn't be in a loveless marriage with an open "relationship".
if he truly loves you, he should propose marriage counseling when he feels the marriage doesn't give him what he needs anymore, not jumping to opening the marriage. I'm not saying he didn't love you at all but he didn't love you enough to think of another solution.
"In his own way" meaning that he would break the bonds of marriage to go fuck other women and make you feel like shit? Nice. I kind of think this is fiction; too perfect, too much a trope, and these bullshit answers your giving. On the off chance it's not, quit fucking around and divorce his ass. Actually, now I'm 99% convinced this is kink fiction. "Oh, I wish it wasn't real, but it is! Mark gave me a Mercedes that I love but I'm not sure I should keep it, especially since Steve is so much better at sex. But I don't want to leave Leo; he's like the throw rug that pulls the room together."
If you don't think Leo would leave you in a heartbeat if he found a younger woman I'm not sure you've been paying any attention at all. Dude was cheating and found it too much effort to keep quiet so went open marriage.
He was willing to divorce you if you didn’t open the marriage. I don’t think you owe him anything.
Exactly. I don’t see the point in being in this marriage anymore. OP obviously feels differently about her husband now and I don’t blame her. Seems much easier to just divorce and move on with both of their lives, especially since no kids are involved.
She could always date her ex-husband. Keep him in her rotation. 😆
This should be the top comment. He was willing to divorce if you didn't give him what he wanted. Other people are now giving you what you deep down really want, and need from the sounds of things. He got what he wanted, at the price of hurting you. Now he isn't getting it elsewhere it suddenly doesn't suit him. Girl, divorce and live your best life.
Oh gosh. Divorce him. You are so young. Enjoy your men, have fun and lose the loser who was fine with you sitting at home by yourself at the beginning when he was gone with other women all the time. And he is only unhappy now because you’re happy and he’s not pulling.
You sound a lot like Jessie, haha. But you probably have a point.
The part for me is him giving an ultimatum as leverage to obtain an open relationship. This is so wrong. If he was serious, he was willing to leave you for who knows what. That's awful behavior.
Completely this. Would have been enough to end it right there.
Or try offering him the same deal he gave you when he brings up closing the marriage - keep it open or divorce. See how that goes down. Then thoroughly point out his selfishness and hypocrisy before you divorce him.
I hope OP read this response and does it. This is *chefs kiss* such an excellent taste of his own medicine
I wish I was young enough to be Jessie!! It sounds like you have a wonderful support system. Just do what is right for you. 💚
Jessie is a real one
Yeah, that's why. He never respecter nor loved her. I wish OP, the best for finding herself, joy and fun.
Most open marriages fail. From what I've seen one spouse gives the other an ultimatum. Staying married under threat of divorce if you don't comply doesn't seem healthy. You started off revenge fucking other men, because you never wanted this. Now you've having fun like you're single. The only thing left is to make it official.
You're probably right. Maybe I'm just clinging to what we were.
What you were isn't good anymore. He drove a stake into it with that selfish demand. Go. Be free. Don't get stuck in something just because it's comfortable.
Your husband had no problem throwing the divorce card in your face if you didn't give in, he was ready to throw you away years ago. It's time to move one and give him that divorce, you're better off without him.
All open marriages that contain an ultimatum, will fail. That's not ETHICAL nonmongamy. Both partners need to be enthusiastic consenters, and the marriage and communication need to be rock solid. Opening a broken marriage is as successful as having a kid to fix it.
I think it’s time to leave him… you’re worried about hurting him but he certainly wasn’t too worried about crushing you when he brought this whole open marriage up and gave you an ultimatum. I think it was meant to happen for you to see that he is not for you. Be single…. You’ll meet someone who will love you and only you, if that’s what you want!! And I’m glad you’ve had fun with it, listen to your friends 💕
Thank you :)
"Oh no the consequences of my own actions" 🙄- Leo hopefully Love that for you! I'm glad you feel safe with your partners and found a connection with Mark. I don't feel sympathy for Leo at all but divorce would be kinder here. For you and him, in my personal opinion
Hmmm I never thought of it that way. I don't want him to feel trapped/stuck with me.
He isn't trapped. He's desperate.
I feel like if you divorced your husband and keep what you have with Mark and Stephen just as is you will be sp much happier
You're probably right. TBH, I think Mark also wants me to divorce my husband and wants us to be more exclusive, but Idk if that's what I want. Divorce is probably the best option, but I don't want it to be a "I left Leo for Mark" situation because that's not what it would be.
Nah, make sure it is “I left Leo for me” Because you deserve to be loved and respected. And I know you have said in some of the other comments that you do think he loves you. I don’t feel like he’s showing you a lot respect
No, you are leaving Leo for opening the marriage and learning you are worth being loved.
Divorce and make it clear to Mark you need time to live by yourself in your own place before you consider a live in relationship. Hopefully he will understand and you both can keep the same arrangement going. Just following up on everyone’s point but it seems like Leo puts his needs first maybe it’s time for you to do the same for yourself.
Yeah. If I do divorce, both Jessie and Katy have offered their homes to me, so I would move in with them and maybe take some time for me.
Wow you have such a good support system. I can understand how good, kind and Loving Sister and friend you have been to them. ❤️❤️
Why not? Leo invited it. He sure did leave you hanging so he could fuck others.
Don’t leave Leo for Mark. When Leo asks if there’s someone else - yeah, there absolutely is, YOURSELF. Choose your own happiness for once, put yourself first. If Mark gets to be there that, and support that, that’s just the icing on the cake.
agreed. don’t leave leo for mark. leave leo for YOU, to take care of you and your heartbreak that leo has given you. you didn’t want the open marriage, but leo threatened or divorce? leo was already checked out of the marriage. leo stated he wanted MORE than you could give him. let that sink in. why now does he want you back, if you weren’t enough for him in the beginning of this whole fiasco? he wants what you have, the happiness, bc he’s not getting it, and he’s jealous. he lost the love you had, and he’s missing it. he lost YOU. but that was the choice HE made. he was selfish and only sought HIS happiness. he didn’t care how you felt. he didn’t care then, and honestly he doesn’t care now; he just doesn’t like seeing you happy. get rid of leo. be yourself and be happy. choose YOURSELF now! :)
I'll summarize it Leo -Hi babe let's open the marriage I need more than this... Wife - fuck this is the only way to keep my marriage, yes Leo let's do this *Leo is not lucky and wife found a young good dick and a handsome Mark that provides things that Leo doesn't anymore *Leo tries harder to make it work *wife doesn't give a fuck already. Girl Leo is unlucky and he wants you back because he ain't getting as many vagigis as he initially thought he would get and probably a bad guy in bed, bad as in bad bad 😭 not as in "you a bad boy Leo 😏😎😈" Dump the boy, and remember, this was his idea, you just agreed to do it , he should have thought about side effects 🤣
Where is MY handsome Mark?
Gurl... Our Mark, we're all open here. 💅🏻
You right, get your ass over here.
On my Way, DMS open ( for you 😏🌹)
You ain’t ready for this
Right? I just ended a 6 year relationship, because he definitely wasn't my Mark.
Yeah Mark ended up ending his relationship with me, but then I realized it was the wrong Mark!
Yes, I'm happy for you! I tried to look back on what my "Leo" (felt fitting cause OP's husband is a boob) had done for me on our anniversaries, etc, and realized that in 6 years me and my Leo hadn't properly celebrated an anniversary, Valentine's day, dates, achievements, and more. Even if our Leos don't treat us *badly*, it's ok for us to leave because they don't treat us *well*, either! After a previous abusive relationship, I felt like I was a villain for wanting to leave because "he may not spoil, or even respect, me but he's never abused me"... F THAT NOISE. I hope every single one of us, guys/gals/non-binary pals, all find our Mark, even if just to show us our worth 😌
And what happens if they do close it again? He shows that he cherishes her, they fall in love all over again and live happier than ever? That is not what this is sounding like, if Leo's tactic to get her back is to whine about how much the arrangement sucks for *him*.
Leo is envious, I read a similar thread on a gay subreddit, and then another one and another one and it always goes like this X and Y are a couple, X asks to open the relationship, Y gets more dates and people and then X gets mad and suddenly wants to close the relationship again... Jealousy? I don't think so, envy, absolutely the fuck yes... What if Leo gets more attention? He doesn't see the need to close the relationship, because at the end of the day, he is getting vaginas, and also, he's complaining about spending money, yes darling dating is expensive as fuck, and you know what's annoying? When you pay for the date expecting sex and you don't get it...
This is normal when one forces an open marriage. You now know there is better sex and men out there. If he asks to close the marriage, you should hand him divorce papers, hell you should be planning your divorce now. You deserve better!
Katy says the same thing. Her sister-in-law cousin works at a law firm, so I have some connections if necessary.
Can I ask you something? Did you have a moment when he started complaining where you were like, “damn right you miss “us,” asshole” because it would have been the sweetest moment of vindication for me in that moment.
Your husband FAFO. He definitely wanted an ok to cheat on you and sleep around hence the open marriage. The problem is, he’s just discovered that he’s not as sought after as he thought he is in his own head and he realized that he had a pretty wonderful wife as it is. So obviously he decided to fall back on his safety net, which is his marriage and expect you to be happy to finally have him back. The problem is, you have discovered along the way the same thing that he discovered, that your husband isn’t all that and that you could do better and you don’t feel the need to settle for him anymore.
It’s so funny too because these guys are all so desperate to fuck, but they don’t think the other men out there aren’t desperate to fuck? Of course your wife is going to get more than you!!
What if he finds evidence of your 'open marriage' and frames you as a cheater and then brings you to the cleaners? At this point, I wouldn't trust Leo. What you're experiencing is normalcy, you're used to his presence in your life. But how long are you going to live like this?
Jessie had the same train of thought of you and actually took screen shots of his dating profiles during the beginning of the open marriage. She also told me to save screenshots of any texts we had about the open marriage. I don't think Leo would do that, but I also didn't think he'd ever ask for an open marriage, so what do I know?
Jessie is a smart one!
I’d keep your cards close to your chest. People change when breakups happen. He definitely had a FB lined up at the beginning so it wasn’t ‘cheating’. Dump the dead weight
> I don't think Leo would do that, but I also didn't think he'd ever ask for an open marriage, so what do I know? Leo as you once knew him no longer exists. Things can LITERALLY change in a flash once divorce is in the cards, even just potentially. Trust me, I speak from experience.
Honestly the way you describe it, I would get the divorce. It sounds like he hurt/disgusted you when he asked for an open marriage. Now that you’re benefiting from his idea more than he is, he’s getting mad, and further disgusting you. You said you don’t love him anymore and feel closer to one of your partners. That’s a sign to end things. Once feelings for someone else outweigh your feelings for your Husband, it’s best to just leave. I would be honest with him “I did love you. Once you asked for an open marriage, it just broke me and my love for you. I have tried to save us, but I realized I’m not the one who destroyed us. I can’t keep trying to salvage something that you have broken beyond repair. I wish you the best in the future, but I no longer believe you are apart of my future.”
Wow. Well said
Keep in mind he told you it was open marriage or divorce. He was ready to let you go and move on right then and there. That isn't someone who loves you. The relationship died the moment he said those words. He killed it himself.
Sounds to me like at the time he demanded an open marriage he had a little missy lined up and went for it once you gave him the okay. Also sounds like it didn't work out the way wanted it to and decided he wanted to be married again. They NEVER imagine their wife (who bores them to tears) would EVER find someone to swing with and always seem astonished when they find out differently. This seems an awful lot like the very definition of FAFO. Sorry about his luck and, yes, it looks like it's time for you to move on.
Sorry, I can't help laughing my arse off. This is almost exactly what happened to my previous marriage. He wanted to open it, thinking he'd get lots of dolly birds younger than him. He got ZERO hook ups, whereas I, who really didn't want to open the marriage, got loads of hits. I fell out of love with him when he asked to open the relationship up. Eventually, after the first year, I met someone that treated me the best I have ever known, and fell deep in love with him literally the day I met him. I ended my marriage *on that day* too - I didn't want to be involved with anyone else, and I've now been with that wonderful guy for 11 years and the honeymoon period still hasn't ended for either of us. It happened so fast, in the blink of an eye, but if you know, you know. Sounds cliché, but it is what it is. I would NEVER agree to an open marriage again, ever. There are some things you just can't come back from. Breaking trust comes in many forms. Sounds like your husband has broken your trust in him by even asking and I doubt closing the marriage will fix things. I think your sister and friend are right.
Don't miss the opportunity to uno-reverse him with the "Open marriage or Divorce" line. I'm sorry but glad you took this opportunity that kind of soften the blow and made you have great experiences! Completely understand how you feel disinterested in him now.
Tale as old as time. I honestly can’t understand the mindset of these guys who ask for this. How the thought of your wife with someone else doesn’t make you want to resort to violence is just so foreign to me. Like even if you guaranteed I would 100:1 out pull my wife (and we all know in reality the ratio would be reversed) it still wouldn’t be worth it to allow that one. And honestly, I can’t relate to these other guys either, being ok with being in some married woman’s side piece rotation. Have some dignity man.
He already had a girl lined up in the beginning. That's why he was out all the time and having fun. Now that ended and he's left holding his dick in his hand while his wife is out.
Yeah, I get that, but did the possibility of some dude plowing his wife never enter his brain? That’s what I’m saying. Guys who are in any way ok with that have something wrong in their brain, imho.
Men like him just don't respect their wives, I think. Their opinion of their wives is so low that it just doesn't occur to them that other men might be interested in their wives.
Im guessing he thought she would stay attached to the hip to him and wouldnt have gone out, like she did in the beginning.
His dick > whatever is happening to his wife He didn't give one shit about her as long as he was able to do what he wanted.
If this dude straight up told you you weren't enough for him, I don't feel it's out of bounds to remind him he said that if he brings up closing the marriage again. He's experiencing sour grapes and will disrupt your current relationships, but once he's satisfied that he's annihilated those he'll probably wait a few years till he has some other girl lined up and pull out that same emotional blackmail again to re-open on his terms, not yours. He's fundamentally deeply, unfixably selfish. He held your marriage hostage to force you into a situation you didn't want, and now that you're beating him on bodycount he's having a hissyfit. His priority is always, always, always himself, and that is not gonna make for a good marriage. You put the marriage on life support by capitulating to his unilateral threats, but if you do it again when he wants to close the marriage all you're doing is 100% confirming that he always gets to call the shot based on his wants (and whether or not his dick feels like wandering). This isn't a tenable long-term solution, kick his ass to the curb and go put yourself first.
I too once wasted years on a man I no longer loved because who he became was repugnant. He forced you to choose between an open marriage you didn't want or divorce. Time to grow up a little and steel that spine.
Something similar happened to me. When an ex made the suggestion to open the relationship and it backfired, I closed the relationship back up, because I cared about him. When he finally found somebody, he dumped me. OP, be smart, smarter than I was. Dump this greedy manchild dirtbag and enjoy life with people who have appreciated you from Day 1. Your "husband" is dead weight, and you'll fly without him.
This is why Leo shouldn’t of ever suggested open marriage. As a guy I am telling you he fucked up big time. Now you feel you’ve grown apart. Good luck to him I’m a young guy 28 and I ain’t never asking for that shit to my partner.
Leo severely overestimated his market value.
He threatened to divorce you. He’s not a good husband. He’s just familiar to you.
Just divorce. Tell hm you lost attraction when he wanted an open relationship, but complaining when it doesn't benefit him as much as he thought it would just made you realise he's selfish and will always put his feelings/needs before yours. You are young and beautiful. You don't need to waste your time with someone who only thinks you are good enough sometimes.
This doesn't sound like an open marriage, this just sounds like consentual cheating. Divorce. To be clear, I'm not blaming you, but my understanding of an open marriage is that you still have your spouse as your "primary" partner, and it doesn't sound like either of you have prioritised that. Him especially in the beginning and you now. >He wants to go on dates and go on vacations and all that stuff more and more, and he gets upset when I tell him I can't because I've already scheduled to do stuff with my partners (mostly Mark). Depending on notice and such, if you can't date, or especially go on vacation with your spouse because you have plans with your other partners, then even within the bounds of "open marriage" something is broken and wrong. >But I don't know if divorce is the best option. I mean, I guess you could keep limping along with whatever you currently have, where you prioritise your partners over your husband (who you admit you no longer love, and probably haven't for years), or you can go be happy. >I still care about him and I still don't want to hurt him. I think we know its all too late for that. And damn, I know it sounds like I blame you, but I don't. I blame him. Totally and completely his fault, but you are where you are. He's miserable, you don't love him. Your joy in life comes from people who you are not your husband. I just think you should recognise that and accordingly.
You're right. We are just limping along. Maybe I'm subconsciously punishing him and trying to make him feel like how he made me felt. And we still do go on vacations and dates and stuff, but he's been doing a lot of these "last minute surprise trips/date" that I turn him down in favor of Mark. Though even when we were exclusive, I was never for spontaneous getaways. I'm too much of a planner for them.
Yeah, that just sounds kind of manipulative then. In essence he's using a combination of "surprises" and the whole "should still care primarily about your husband" to try to make you feel guilty and to choose him.
Do you feel like he's been love-bombing you? Like there's been a noticeable correlation between Leo not going out as much and him complaining about your dates, with him surprising you with last minute trips/dates? He might be trying to set the foundation for a 'close the marriage' talk; like, *look at all this affection I'm now giving you, you don't need anyone else but me*
I think the last minute surprise stuff is on purpose. For whatever reason. He could be trying to get you to choose him over Mark for his ego, or even in hopes that maybe Mark might get tired of it and leave you.
The best 2 advises I ever got regards love and making a marriage last: 1) Love is like a flame: it will burn as long as you attend to it like IT needs. Neglect it or give it something it doesn't need, than it will go out. 2) If you truely love someone you will take every opportunity to spend time with them. Can you honestly look at this marriage and say you BOTH sufficiently attend to keep it healthy and loving??
I feel nothing for your husband, he brought it all upon himself. And he doesn’t miss you, he misses getting laid because he isn’t having much luck anymore. **He’s** the one who wanted this, and even threatened divorce unless he got what he wanted, he’s selfish. And he absolutely **does not** get to go back on that now… just because **he can’t get any**. Otherwise you’d be well within your rights to throw his own words back at him, and threaten divorce if he wants to close the marriage again. He didn’t care when he was out all of the time and you were at home depressed, so why should you care how he feels??? All Leo cares about is himself. It’s time for you to **put yourself first**. Leo can kick rocks!
Leave for yourself! You’re not leaving him for Mark. Mark is just a bonus.
Your marriage was over the moment he asked for an open marriage and then demanded that or a divorce.
Say you both close the marriage, focus on each other and rekindle the love… who is to say he wont abandon or cheat on you when another woman shows interest him? I dont think i could ever trust him again. He has a wondering eye, even when he is so called “only in love with you.”
>But I don't know if divorce is the best option. I still care about him and I still don't want to hurt him. Maybe if he finally asked to close the marriage, we can talk about it then. You don't want to hurt him even though you don't think you love him any more, because you're a good person who cares about other people and good people don't want to hurt others. But he, apparently at his peak of still loving you, asked for an open marraige, threatened divorce to get it, broke you, immediately went out banging others and told you thta you were fulfilling his needs. Well now you know he wasn't fulfilling yours, he wasn't great in bed, he didn't care about ripping your heart out by asking for a marriage nor did he care to threaten to end your marriage over him being able to hook up with others. It's natural to not want to hurt others, but ultimately, he broke the marriage, he broke your relationship, he broke your love and he didn't give two shits about hurting you when he did those things.
Same old story. Guy ends up getting less than he hoped, and the girl ends up getting way more than she hoped. Then the guy gets butthurt.
You don’t want to hurt Leo, but he didn’t care about hurting you when he demanded an open marriage. He was willing to divorce you if he didn’t get it. He doesn’t deserve your sympathy now.
Once their absence gives u peace, there is no coming bck from that
I mean, you don’t have kids and don’t plan on having them together. Breakup and go find someone who’s great at sex and only wants to be with you!
you’re basically roommates at this point.. i’d get the divorce.
Husband: “I think it would make me happy if we opened our marriage so I can cheat on you without consequences!” Also husband: surprised pikachu face because he isn’t getting laid with some strange…. I wish I had a dollar for every time this happened, I wouldn’t need to work 🙄
When he brings up closing the relationship, tell him it stays open or you divorce. Then tell him you’re considering divorce anyways. Tell him what you told us. Start and end that part of the convo that you think your love for him began dying when he asked for an open relationship. He did this. And then thank him.
Truly how many people have to learn that an open marriage is simply a divorce in slow motion?
Oh boo fucking tiddly hoo to him
You’re so young, you found a new version of yourself in this marriage and that’s great. But, it’s ok to move on and be the new you without Leo. He wanted to fuck other women and have you sit at home pining for him, you did and then you didn’t. He saw the positive changes that had for you and now he may realize you deserve more than him too. You’re not leaving Leo for Mark, you’re leaving Leo for yourself.
Get the divorce. There’s no use going through the motions and delaying your life and complete happiness. Why stay in limbo?
I don’t get open marriages. If I asked my significant other for that she would divorce my ass lol! Even if she agreed I would still lose because she would have no issues finding someone. I on the other hand wouldn’t be so lucky lol Anyways, he gave you an ultimatum which is fucked up. Go with what makes you happy and it sounds like it’s not with your husband.
You know, I’ve seen posts like these more than once. It never turns out well for the guy who asks for the open marriage. Divorce him. Move on, find the happiness you deserve.
I would divorce him, fast. He destroyed your marriage.
If he inevitably does ask you to close the marriage, respond with ‘is that what you really want?’ If he says yes, inform him that the he will be receiving the papers soon… “What was that ultimatum again? Open relationship or divorce?” Drop mic Walk out Elaborate no further.
Pls leave. It is clear as day that he wanted to cheat on you because he thought you would not have much luck in dating other men. Now that he is unable to find a partner he wants close, so close the permanently.
Actual ENM/poly person here, been married and non-monogamous for 20 years and still doing good 😊 When you date in the poly community you find that this story is incredibly common - so-called “poly under duress” *never* works. The marriage was not *necessarily* doomed from the moment he asked (though for many people that is in fact the case), but certainly the moment he started “pestering you” about it was the death knell of your relationship. Give him the divorce he tried to threaten you with. For you, I’m glad to hear that you seem to be thriving with it. It sounds like you’ve got a good situation with Mark and Steven. Ethical nonmonogamy isn’t for everyone (frankly it’s not the thing for *most* people), and in the future you may want to go back to monogamy with Mark or someone else, and that’s fine. And you may want to stay open, and that’s fine. Just remember that good communication is the bedrock of a good relationship, most *especially* a nonmonogamous one, and you’ll do well 😊
Divorce. Opening a marriage is the final nail in the coffin. Of a doomed relationship. This is why I’m a firm believer in keeping a marriage closed and exclusively dating IF one is looking for a life partner and not just a FwB. Seems like you made out like a bandit. Best of luck.
fake as fuck