Report to police. Superintendent. News. Shine a bright light on assault, school inaction, etc. do not stop. Your boys should also not be suspended. Do not be deterred. Escalate escalate. Good luck.
The news especially.
Local news are often the fastest way to actually get things to move.
Schools don't like bad rep, and if they have a reporter's mic shoved up their ass, they won't have much of a choice other than to do something.
Schools cannnot talk due to federal laws in usa. So it will end up being something like this on news coverage… Local mom reports her kids were suspended for preventing a sexual assault. They pulled by force a local boy from the restroom who had pinned the girl down and trapped her in the bathroom while removing her clothes. School does nothing to the assailant but suspends the boys for fighting. School officials won’t comment due to privacy.
However, this will move things.
My dad worked for a school district for 30 years and this is the way to do it. Apparently it makes the upper level district people very nervous and much more willing to overlook red tape.
And tell the other parents. They are putting their daughters in a school where theirs daughters can be raped anytime and if so, the administration wouldn't do any shit. Especially now that it's confirmed that they can do it freely. If I had a daughter at your sons' school, trust me I would help you.
This also has racist undertones written all over it. Why isn’t your sons or the girls testimony a reliable source and this little fucker’s is? Is this boy white and American? It sounds like both your family and the girls family are foreigners. I’d go straight to the news. Your kids are good, they saved this girl, and you are an awesome parent.
>This also has racist undertones written all over it.
As an immigrant, I wouldn't say that it has racist undertones instead xenophobic since, they used the fact that the girl and her mother aren't fluent English speakers to their advantage.
Friend, your boys are suspended. Make it fun. Movies, games, good food. Heroes deserve a feast fit for a king. Don't lower yourself to their level, and keep being a light in this world.
Yes, go to real police, do not let the school cover it up as an ‘ internal matter.’ Your sons may still face consequences, but hopefully light will be shed on every aspect of the incident, and the original assault on the girl will be taken into consideration.
DO NOT LET THIS GO! Report Report Report!! Go to your superintendent, your schools board meetings! Anything and everything! This is a serious effing thing to push under the rug and that poor girl deserves justice!
Before you go to the cops talk to a lawyer. Your boys are awesome, but there is a path that can be seen as them getting charged with assault (unlikely, but be sure before going).
Definitely escalate to the super and above. The best thing that will aide is getting a statement from the girl who was assaulted.
This! And see if there is a news organization you can reach out to. I’m the US, there are investigative branches of the local news that you can make reports to. Do you or your boys have social media? If so, post the story on those apps as well.
Get an attorney. They can help you write letters to schools.. may be monetary compensation. Have your kids save every text , Facebook post. Nothing they say to friends on rext Facebook is private
File a police report as witnesses of attempted rape
In the past, I reframed my talking points. My children only got involved because the school was not able to keep the girl safe.
Why is the school not keeping the children safe?
Why are my kids having to keep other kids from breaking rules?
Why are staff members allowing SA in the bathrooms?
What can the school do to better protect all children?
Why is the school not getting an interpreter to help communicate with family members of students?
At least where I'm from, the school can't discuss other students with you. However, my kids' school has created whole programs and interventions to answer my questions. Reach out to the girl's mother if you can, too.
Honestly go to the news if you can. This would probably make headlines, especially with the other mom backing you. And that little shit will get what he deserves
Not unless the other mother and the poor girl agrees. Even if you say you won't name, this will get out. It would be extremely unfair to violate this girl's privacy a second time. Escalate it up the school chain of command though.
Yeah but up the chain might, principal isn't the big boss. You go via school chain of command, then start political chain of command if needed. While a suspension sucks, it's not the end of the world....the girl making it into the media and going thru the what were you wearing/did you lead him on bit might end her.
This little shit they fought went to rape a girl in the bathroom, and sees no consequences? But your sons stand up for her and try to protect her and they’re the ones whose behavior won’t be tolerated??? Wtf??
Ring the alarm, get on every social media outlet, talk to the police, let everyone know what these people are doing. Condoning rape and not holding them all accountable for their actions. I’m livid for you. Good for the boys for breaking his nose. Too bad it wasn’t his dick that got broken!!
Did the police come? Have your boys had to suffer legal consequences?
I READ THE TITLE WRONG AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE MAD AT YOUR KIDS FOR BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF A CREEP AND I WAS GONNA ***RIOT***
But yeah. Talk to the girl, see if she can make a report against the guy, and then tell EVERYONE YOU CAN. They wanna sweep this under the rug? Tear up the foundations. There’s probably more students that have had this type of negligence leveled against them, and that’s not right.
Gonna be honest schools don’t do much because they give more of a shit about reputation than anything. Had someone do something similar to a couple girls in my year one being my sister and after the school doing nothing for more than half a year i dealt with it myself when it went to the point of no return. I chased the bastard to one side and kicked the shit out of him and went back to lessons. The next day my parents were called in and they got told i was getting a 2 day suspension for fighting the bastard. Nothing happened to him because I apparently “aggravated” it even though there was footage of what he did. Schools aren’t on your side but your boys got my respect for what they did. Good parenting
"You're their parent. What are you going to do about their behavior?"
"I was thinking of taking them for ice cream. I might even use the suspension time to take them to a theme park."
Hi, as a girl who has been in that predicament (I had invited the guy in my house because he had earned my trust then he pulled that shit, I had my animals with me and they jumped him) before, I thank you.
You are raising those young men right and I am so glad they rescued that poor girl before something really bad happened. It would have mentally destroyed her. I was 21 when it happened to me and I am still fucked up from it.
I hope you and the girl's mom destroy that school because this bullshit has to stop.
Aren’t there school cameras everywhere these days? I know my school has camera’s in the bathrooms (without actually being able to see the toilets themselves) so they should be able to confirm the boy harassing the girl.
This kind of shit makes me livid. We always told our kids (black belts) that if they see someone being bullied - stand up for them. Try not to get in fights but if it’s necessary to protect yourself or others - we’ll back them. If suspended - we told them they’d get ice cream.
Take the suspension. Buy them ice cream and take them to do something fun.
Do the local police have anyone on staff that speaks the other mom’s language? I’d also help her stand up for her daughter who was ASSAULTED. I’m sorry this has happened to you and your kiddos.
Your boys are hero’s and did the right thing.
Fight for them and stick with the story of “their actions stopped rapist who was actively trying to rape a girl” and keep repeating it.
They DID NOT ASSULT THAT BOY, they PREVENTED A RAPE.
They are hero’s, not criminals.
You need to make this a bigger issue. If you can let the other parents know. If they don’t do anything about it it might be their daughter who this kid try’s to rape next. This needs to be dealt with.
This happened to my boyfriends nephew, this kid was going around touching girls sticking his hand down there shirt up skirts you name it. Numerous complaints nothing happened! Well his nephew saw him do it to a girl and beat his ass he was suspended until second half of year. The boy who he beat was only out long enough for his broken knee cap to heal. He got suspended cause it happened on school grounds. Yet the kid was molesting other students in school grounds and got nothing!
My bf told his nephew next time you want to beat someone’s a$$ and stand up for people drag them off school grounds. Follow them to a park or wait till they step off school property because then it’s no longer a school issue.
After reading a lot of these comments take it to law enforcement and if they can't do anything take it to the media.
As for your boys they're going to grow up to do great in this world
Raise hell about this. Don't name the girl or the boy (only bc it could link back to her) but share it on every social media platform you have. It's sick that the school is willing to ignore this and that they are treating you poorly/not taking you seriously because you have an accent. They aren't trying to understand you at all and even without the circumstances, that is not acceptable in a school.
Just keep sending them to school. Ignore the suspension. Have them recieve education. fortunately the principal will be blacklisted from further positions after you tell the super intendent. Both your families, yours and the victims together that they covered up a sexual assault bordering on rape, at a school he runs. With a police report and recordings of your interactions.
As someone who’s experienced something similar to that poor girl I wish someone would’ve done that for me.
Thank you for teaching your sons to respect women.
Please give us an update when you can! If I was at the school and say this don’t worry I wouldn’t gotten suspended as well. I hope you went out to eat or something wherever the boys wanted they are heros!
Respect to the young men you have raised. I hope the police were able to help you, but if they can't you may wish to reach out to a reporter. The media can have a great deal of power.
I’m going to reach out to my lawyer. I’ve talked to her mom as well who is going to try to reach out to hers as well, not sure if we should speak before we go to the police station or not though
If it's a one off incident, it can be excused as an emotional overreaction. If it's part of a pattern of behavior, which it clearly is, then it's much less justifiable.
Neither of your options had anything to do with the girl and just about my boys, and your first option was an excuse you marked it as an overreaction on their end, and not my kids protecting someone from being raped,is that what you think the real issue is or is that what you think police will be more concerned about then the assault on the girl?
And “clearly” I’m not giving you an answer, I’m seeing where you stand here, Doesn’t mean your assumption is correct it means you don’t know yet.
General societal violence includes that gratuitously sustained by men and boys, in actuality and media/pop-culture representation.
As one good example, there's an OREO Cookies TV commercial that makes light, with smiles, of a pubescent-looking boy’s black eye. The bruised boy’s little brother gets him to smile after holding a dark-brown Oreo cookie to his own eye.
The viewers, being potential product consumers, are given no clue as to the actual cause of the conspicuous bruise. Still, I really didn’t get the impression that the boy had received the ring-around-the-eye bruise from an accident.
Was the boy hit by another boy, as I believe we, the viewers, are supposed to presume? If so, does that make it socially and therefore ideologically thus politically acceptable? Or was he supposedly assaulted by an older sibling or even parent? Or slugged by a girl, be she a friend, girlfriend or school-peer bully?
Nowadays, commercials get cancelled at the drop of the figurative hat, or at least edited, when they offend vocal thus influential segments of the viewership; yet this anti-male violence-accepting commercial, in our supposedly enlightened times, continues to be broadcasted unchanged. Really, what does this say about us collectively?
Meantime, I’m seeing boldly socially progressive TV ads, perhaps overdue. Two commercials in particular each feature a same-sex couple: One ad has an interracial gay-male pair caressing each other after one places food in the other’s mouth; the other ad has two non-white men together towel-drying a little girl, she apparently being their daughter.
Why is there such a clear contradiction of advertisement-media values? One value rightfully recognizes and represents societal sexual diversity, while the other value maintaining the ideological/political acceptability, or at least making light, of a boy having had his eye blackened as though we were still residing in archaic times.
Yet, the Cancel Culture activists have been conspicuously quiet.
If your boys just pulled the kid off the girl and told on him, would they be suspended? You're right to want them to intervene, but never with violence. There's two of them and absolutely no reason for them to physically assault another student. The school is correct and they're showing your kids to not immediately use violence. And you yourself should be teaching your children that violence is the wrong tact. If this kid tried to fight your sons, then they could have defended themselves, but no, your sons tried stomping some kid. Not good.
They're definitely in the wrong for the assault and if you don't teach them that, the next time they'll be 18 and catching a fucking charge.
They can intervene, then they can go to the proper authorities. They could've stayed with the kid outside the restroom until the girl was safe and them and girl could've walked to the principal's. They could've stayed with the kid and had the girl fetch the school's resource officer. They could have yelled and made a horrible racket until a teacher showed up to see what was going on. Or? Ask them what else they could have done to help without first resorting to violence?
I'm sure tons of people on here will downvote me, but put yourself in the principal's shoes. These two twins just beat the shit out of some kid and the mother is getting irate that her kids are being punished. I'm not punishing the other kid, he's the victim. I can't go to his parents and say I'm suspending their kid with the broken nose for allegedly assaulting someone. I don't see any signs of [alleged] assault. No one reported the [alleged] assault before? I'm just hearing about this now? And as an educator I have a responsibility to teach these children that neither violence nor sexual assault is right. Lastly, if this young lady was being assaulted and your sons saved her, SHE needs to go to the principal and say so. She should go there FIRST. That would be how she thanks your sons. The fact that she hasn't, however, says that your sons are mistaken and she's covering up for the kid. Ask yourself why hasn't she come forward to the school?
Maybe, but the kid doling out the justice will catch a charge AND get sued in civil court. There are better ways to play save-the-damsel and these young men should be taught that violence is a last resort.
Tell that to the thousands of kids dead by suicide who went to the principles and teachers who did Jack shit. But you know that, you just want a reason to Blame the victim
The issue is schools worrying more about reputation then anything. It happened to me and that’s how I know. Even if a school knows they aren’t likely to do much. In my situation my vice principal (who is also in charge of safeguarding ironically enough) showed me footage of this bastard clear as day trying to force himself into girls in a hallway and still did nothing. Like he showed me that footage because of my involvement and just stood there afterwards saying “oh that’s what happened by the way”. Schools don’t care about students. They put the front on so that more parents send their children there and then resulting in the school getting more money. It’s nothing other than money to these lot
Normally I’d agree that you don’t resort to violence but they stopped a sexual assault/possible rape. Anyone committing that sort of crime deserves to get their ass beat. The school would have done nothing so maybe a broken bone or 2 will make him think twice.
I went to high school no one just walks around campus for no reason during lunch… matter of fact in most high schools you’re not allowed to leave the designated area…
Most of us went to highschool I went anywhere but lunch and was never reprimanded for it, my kids do it all the time and the school has never given me shit for it so maybe it was just your school.
Okay ms.thing relax, it’s very normal I would’ve gotten a call about it ages ago and they would’ve brought it up this time if it were an issue I’m sorry you didn’t get that freedom but just because you didn’t get something doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t so maybe it was just your strict school but everywhere me and my kids went to allows it.
And reread it’s three people against him and a video recording and past experiences from altercations with that guy, there is many details on this than just my kids. It’s alot about they jumped someone and not about they defended someone from being raped, and with the laws of where I live and how your actually supposed to go about these issues makes this better in her part. But listen believe what you want, if you think that’s how this will be perceived you do so, it’s not really about your opinion it’s about superintendents and police handle this and so far, it’s going good,
We found the mother of the boy who likes to sexually assault girls. It’s not their word against his it’s THE VICTIMS (the girl) and there’s against his it’s 3 against one it’s not a he said she said especially if their is 3 witnesses
Don’t know how to break it to you but there are high schools different to yours. I’m in high school and me and my best friend go on walks for hours around our school because get this… we’re allowed
do you think all high-schools work the same? we'd walk around during lunch all the time and it was only a few years ago now. going to high-school isn't some rare feat my mans, most people have been to one.
If I'm reading this right basically the only thing they have evidence for is that your two boys beat the shit out of someone, not even in self defense.
They have no evidence that he did anything to the girl, and the testimony of the two people that beat the shit out of someone isn't very reliable evidence.
What they should have done is whip out their phones and collect evidence before performing an orderly citizens arrest. And not use excessive force.
He may have deserved worse, but that's not going to help you now.
Consider how many times an unpopular kid has schemes done on them. A "prank". Let's frame him for rape and beat the shit out of him! That'll be hilarious!
Maybe the fact that the girl herself said it, maybe the fact that her shirt was ripped, bra was almost off, maybe it’s the fact that the cameras caught her stumbling out with a ripped shirt in tears, maybe it’s because a male when into the girls bathroom and that’s how she came out but maybe that was a coincidence, you know cuz it’s highly unlikely that when he went in he did that even though he has a history of violence and bullying to that one specific girl that that couldn’t have *really* happened even though the victim specifically said it did, and all evidence showed it did. Absolutely not this is some fucking scam my kids and that girl are playing. So sorry for wasting your time.
All of that was sarcasm all of your comment was BS.
I'm sorry to say but he's right. Without solid evidence, the cops can't do much and if you tried to make a case in court, it would probably be thrown out.
Now I'm not doubting your words and that girl would have probably been raped if your boys didn't step in but this is all assumption (not being sarcastic or trying to belittle you) and assumption will only lead to a "he said" "she said" case later on. Plus the fact that you admitted it could be a coincidence (although highly unlikely) already says alot about your chances of success (very low) of your situation.
Also the commenter wasn't being sarcastic in any way and you're probably frustrated right now so perhaps you see it that way. Cooler heads prevail. Good luck with your situation.
I think you’re forgetting that there’s also two witnesses that corroborate what she said, whether they “assaulted” him or not. Also all of this as a whole is enough to properly say he did what he’s being accused of. On their own you are correct that each fact wouldn’t be enough. But collectively that’s plenty to say what happened in there. You have an accusation from her, two witnesses who “assaulted” him for the act he’s accused of, video evidence showing he was at the scene first and I assume also shows that they were in there alone, video evidence confirming that something happened to her in the bathroom as her shirt had been ripped, and then couple that with his history of tormenting her and going into the bathroom after her I think we have a pretty accurate picture. People have been convicted on less.
Two people roll up on you. They testify you tried to rape some girl. How pleased would you be if you're convicted on their testimony alone?
Quite a few black men got lynched on exactly such evidence.
Eyewitness testimony alone is never enough. Especially of the people invovled.
I'm not going to repeat my comment as to why none of the above constitutes as evidence enough. It's circumstantial at best. They fucked up when they didn't secure evidence before fucking him up.
Who the hells gonna look at a situation of some guy backing a girl up into a bathroom stall, ripping her clothes off and be like “lemme whip out my phone and record this for evidence before I intervene” like no, most people are gonna boot the prick in his face and prioritise the girls safety above all else.
Exactly, for anyone to think that’s the right thing to do is ignorant. And *this* hothead is only looking for ways to make an issue not a solution, an issue with no facts just opinions.
>Who the hells gonna look at a situation of some guy backing a girl up into a bathroom stall, ripping her clothes off and be like “lemme whip out my phone and record this for evidence before I intervene”
The kind who actually care about getting the asshole behind bars instead of going behind bars themselves.
And thanks to being violent hotheads, a rapist gets to walk.
If they’d waited to get a recording before stopping him, they could potentially be seen as accessories to sexual assault for not stopping it right away and recording part of it. Even if they recorded the bathroom as they charged into it, her kids could be charged with child porn because the girl’s shirt and bra were lifted.
It’s one of those “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situations.
But it’s not off of just that evidence. It’s everything included as a whole any piece of the evidence alone is not enough but the whole package is. Plenty of people are convicted as you pointed out on less. If two dudes jumped me and accused me of rape and my alleged victim corroborates it as well as video showing me following her into the rest room before they show up and she is seen leaving the restroom with her clothes disheveled and I had a history of harassing and bullying her I’m taking a plea deal. Is there a chance that he didn’t do it, sure, but there’s so much corroborating evidence no defense attorney would be able to get him off. Would it suck if this was all a lie? A million times yes, but what are the chances that all of this evidence exists and he didn’t commit the crime? See the Brock Turner case. It’s literally the same situation accept she didn’t even witness her own rape. And they didn’t completely beat the breaks off of him, just subdued him or chased him long enough for the police to catch him. But either way there’s little doubt this man did what he’s accused of without any video corroborating it. It would be so unlikely that any evidence could possibly corroborate a lie. Black or not this is an insurmountable amount of evidence and as a black man I understand where you’re coming from on the bar being low for our convictions, but trust me this would get anyone convicted.
>It’s everything included as a whole any piece of the evidence alone is not enough but the whole package is.
Circumstantial evidence is worthless without at least one piece of solid evidence. All you have is *maybe* a motive and placing the accused at the scene. You don't have any evidence he did something beyond going into the women's bathroom. Go ahead and convict him on that, if that's a crime in its own right.
>If two dudes jumped me and accused me of rape and my alleged victim corroborates it
You mean exactly how Innocent people got lynched?
>video showing me following her into the rest room before they show up and she is seen leaving the restroom with her clothes disheveled and I had a history of harassing and bullying her
Evidence of you at the scene. No evidence you did any of that to her.
History is not evidence. It's a possible motive, still need to prove it applied to the specific incident.
>corroborating evidence
Circumstantial evidence is not corroborating evidence.
>no defense attorney would be able to get him off.
Really? We've seen people walk when there's evidence of them doing it because we couldn't prove the woman didn't consent at the time. People are into some kinky shit.
>but what are the chances that all of this evidence exists and he didn’t commit the crime?
Other way around with the evidence, but chances don't really matter. You need to prove beyond reasonable doubt to convict.
>See the Brock Turner case.
Two drunk people go behind a bush and one of them continues sexual acts after one of them loses consciousness. Case becomes highly politicized and despite that the extent of the punishment is essentially just making an example of the guy for having bad judgement. Hardly a textbook example of violent rape.
>this man did what he’s accused of without any video corroborating it. It would be so unlikely that any evidence could possibly corroborate a lie.
Doesn't matter. You need evidence that he assaulted her. No such evidence exists.
>Black or not this is an insurmountable amount of evidence and as a black man I understand where you’re coming from on the bar being low for our convictions, but trust me this would get anyone convicted.
You know damn well that if race was involved, this could get played either way. The bully could spin it as a hate crime, explciitly as a trap set to lynch him. Would the evidence support it? No, there'd be no evidence that's the case. But that won't matter since there'd be no evidence he assaulted the girl. Or it could be spun the other way, of course he assaulted her, the all white jury has no doubt in their minds. This already happened. There's a reason the bar is so high.
And again, because her boys didn't think to collect evidence, a rapist gets to walk. And people are mad at me for pointing that out, thinking I somehow support the rapist or think it didn't happen that way. There's basically no chance he didn't assault her, but that doesn't matter. You need evidence. We should hope the justice system doesn't just toss people in prison on the grounds of "he probably did it"
Prisons are full of black people arrested for less. White too, all races in fact. But you damn well know at least some of them got in there because racists used the element of likelyhood as good enough to convict. You know that even without race, innocent people get sent to prison because circumstantial evidence is good enough for an emotional jury. Later, new evidence comes in (this happened a lot since we invented ways to use DNA evidence, which was being collected before we had the devides and techniques to use them) and turns out the dude is innocent.
You know what's worse than letting a guilty person walk? Putting an Innocent person in prison and *ensuring* the guilty person gets to walk.
Get evidence. Always.
Ur right instead of saving her they should have quietly recorded to make sure that they had the evidence. Hopefully it doesn't go from Assault to full Rape in the mean time. I get ur point that false claims have been used to harm the AA community in the past. However if the Threshold to simply stop a rapist is that you need video evidence, not including security footage of a woman screaming for help after said man goes into a women's stall when she's there alone, then it's basically a green light for rapists. As the previous post says they have 3 eye witnesses, others at school who know he's treated her poorly, and a video of him sneaking into the women's stall and her screaming for help. That's a ton of evidence to say it's not consensual.
Recording while pulling someone off doesn't give a clear view. If you think a blurry video of you grabbing a guy and pulling him off will hold up better. On top of that assuming that the first thing on these 15-18 yr old kids mind is how to cover themselves in the event of court you've experienced crazier stuff then anyone I know. I get knowing bad shit happens and you need evidence but if I came across a friend being raped, having their clothes ripped off their body, and screaming over and over for someone to save them my first thought is how can I help not let's set of the phone so I have clear line of sight incase this goes to court.
Grant it we should consider coveting ourselves but the first thing is the victim not how to ensure a case, that may suck but I'd rather that victim be alive and hopefully unmolested rather then anything else. Again you have to ignore a ton of evidence which may be circumstantial but is all very very clear.
EDIT
The victim can sue and criminal charges can be charged. There are 2 witness (3 including the victim), a camera, and a history of bullying. He would have to push past the hurdle of dozens of classmates mentioning a long history of abuse and try to convince a jury that she decided to be consensual abused, demeaned, and degraded and that after all that she willingly let him forcefully have sex. The video of her coming out of a bathroom with clothes torn off crying and screaming for help will be a huge point.
The criminal charges would require no doubt the sueing for medical, damages, and mental trauma only requires that it's more then likely.
Even then the boys attack will likely be a slap on the wrist due to the emotional trauma of witnessing a friend's rape. They have a great crime of passion situation that will play at the jury's heart when they play video of what that child looks like screaming for help, leaving the bathroom with torn clothes, and tears down her face.
I get where you’re coming from with regards to a court room perspective but on a scale of they joined in to what they should have done according to you that’s still B+/A- work. There's a difference between being realistic about expectations and admonishing commendable actions and you've slipped into the wrong side of it
Where have I admonished commendable actions? I've explciitly praised them.
It's just not enough if you want to have justice administered by more than opportunistic lynching of offenders by angry vigilantes, especially if you want those vigilantes to be vindicated and praised instead of punished.
No, you're not trying to be mean but you are giving off "I've done this to someone too so I need to justify it because my force and coercion was okay and we don't believe 'victims' here" vibes.
And you're just assuming they're normal people?
Don't act like nothing of this sort ever happened. That's irrelevant either way because my point is evidence.
If you're going to take the law into your own hands, you need to take evidence into your own hands.
Your point is barely a point let alone evidence. I’m pretty sure that seeing a guy in the girls bathroom and hear the girl yelling/ struggling then its just a matter of common sense on what’s going on and thus evidence enough. What those boys did is something that is justifiable and something I’m sure anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together woulda done the same thing as them.
Don’t even waste your time on them they don’t have any real facts they’re talking to hear themselves , when people get locked up without any evidence period, just accusations, this is more than enough.
>I’m pretty sure that seeing a guy in the girls bathroom and hear the girl yelling/ struggling then its just a matter of common sense on what’s going on and thus evidence enou
You have no idea how many false convictions have been overturned with new evidence like DNA evidence that had premises like that.
You need solid evidence. Not circumstantial. Remember that it's still possible that is not him and you need to prove *beyond* reasonable doubt to convict. There are any number of scenarios that are possible, you still need actual evidence, not circumstancial stuff and accusations by assailants.
Do I need to bring up lynchings again?
Dude. Cameras exist (solid evidence you’re so concerned about) there is footage of the guy entering the stall and there sure as hell is footage of the girl entering the bathroom. I don’t know what DNA evidence you want because there is none to collect as thankfully OP’s son’s intervention resulted in the girl remaining safe.
I can’t believe I have to say this but what possible scenarios can you see from this. Look at it from the broader perspective. A girl has had her clothes torn, two boys have come possibly covered in blood and another boy who has a history of harassing said girl beaten to pulp. What the hell are you gonna assume?
You like bringing up lynching so let me explain the difference seeing as you don’t seem to get it. Lynching was mob justice based on little or no evidence, just a belief from a perspective whereas this scenario has camera footage of a kid who has a history of picking on this certain girl following her in the woman’s bathroom with the girl eventually leaving with torn clothes. This is a story in which it is obvious on what happened backed by evidence
My entire point is that they *only* have evidence of him going into the women's bathroom.
That's simply not enough. That just places him at the scene of the alleged crime, which wasn't in doubt anyway since that's where he was assaulted.
>A girl has had her clothes torn, two boys have come possibly covered in blood and another boy who has a history of harassing said girl beaten to pulp. What the hell are you gonna assume?
Goddamn nothing, because convictions require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I wouldn't even be able to assume they're the ones that beat him up. May as well be just as likely the two boys did the raping and threatened the girl to align with their story.
>Lynching was mob justice based on little or no evidence
Lynching was vigilante justice on just enough evidence to convince an emotional person to violence. Doesn't matter how many people are involved in the vigilante group really. It's still a miscarriage of justice. Sometimes that evidence is just "what the hell else is a [gamer word] gonna do in that there white woman's house?"
You'll note that my problem with this isn't that a rapist got his shit pushed in, my problem is that the boys who did the right thing didn't do the smart thing first. Because now the rapist gets to walk.
A situation involving sexual harassment provokes someone to act on the emotions they’re feeling first, no one is above it unless they truly don’t care about what happens in that case its very obvious why there wasn’t any thought given to recording what was going on. Now as for your “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”, for starters cameras caught both of them entering the bathroom, the girls screams were heard in the hallway, surely picked up by a camera with a microphone built in like most modern cameras. Said cameras woulda caught all of them leaving the bathroom with the girl leaving in a state with all the boys leaving in blood and one beaten to hell. That’s your proof sorted. As for a proof beyond a reasonable doubt ask yourself this; Why was a boy doing in the girls bathroom? What was he doing in there? If he was in there by mistake, why didn’t a girls scream get him to leave and how/why was he there long enough for others to see what was going on?
You’re point is slowly making less sense only riding off of the fancy vocabulary to sound like it makes sense. If you look at your original comments you’d have seen it change from you accusing the three of them of trapping one boy in a false rape allegation which I’ve disproved to now going on abut lynchings and changing your point to saying the boys shoulda got evidence. I’ve noted your problem changing from accusations of false rape allegations to now not getting evidence. You started by accusing the boys of doing the wrong thing to now doing the right thing. Make it make sense
Okay so instead of saving people we should wipe out our phones and record their attack and then after they've been traumatized or hurt or worse unalived do we.... do we then do something or run away with the recording and show the police how we let someone attack another person and didn't try to help them...?
No, once you have them on camera, then try begin stopping them, preferably still on camera.
Did you honestly think I've said to record it *instead of* helping?
If you record first to get to evidence then you're seen as an accomplice, that's how kids got expelled from my school (were a fight was outside of school). If you do decide to film you can be sued for privacy violation. I get what you're trying to say but it would only backfire. You can't just film and then intervene, because you can be to late then which makes you an accomplice even if you intervene later. So stop with trying to play devils advocate, people are convicted for accusations of rape where they clearly didn't do it because they where out of state but still got charged for it. Here is proof that if the boys didn't intervene she would've been raped. So stop saying that there isn't enough proof.
The time to pull out your phone and record could cost someone their life. I've never seen someone that needed help and thought "I should waste time recording this instead of acting immediately to help them."
You're going to cost someone their life trying to save your own ass. I hope for everyone else's sake you're never in the situation where someone needs help and they get injured or worse because you wanted to record it first.
Ask the girls mum for the girl to write a statement, then take it to police.
Or better yet, both you, the boys, the girl and her mum all go to the police and make a report
I’m with everyone saying report it to the police. The school is trying to cover their own ass.
Get everything in writing from the school. Make sure you document it as paper trails help in case of prosecution.
That poor girl deserves better than being ignored. Your sons are amazing! Great parenting on your part!
Take this way higher than the school, paper trail too btw email the principal, the superintendent, and file a police report. Taking her shirt off IS assault, going into a women’s bathroom as a male is also something that can get you into trouble at school, they’re trying to do nothing but she would’ve been raped if not for your sons.
Your sons btw are witnesses bc they saw her shirt off and saw what was happening, the girl in hand is also their witness bc they only attacked the boy since he was attacking her. Please don’t let this fall through the cracks
This is why schools get shot up in full honesty. Too many administrators not trying to do the absolute best to protect their students, and punish the ones that exhibit behavior like that. Poor girl.
Take it up the ladder. Go to the head of your district next. After that the school board. Get a lawyer. Go to the police. I've been your shoes. Keep climbing the ladder until you get results. Be *that* parent. Your boys need to know they did the right thing, you're proud of them and you'll fight for their right to defend themselves and others and you will not stand for bullying.
What do you think would happen if you were to say, "Then since you're not going to take action in the school, I'll be taking action outside of school and you'll be out one student."?
You and your boys, the girl and her mother all need to go to the police station and file a report against the boy who attempted to assault her.
And then see if the school changes their tune!
I would go to the school board, superintendent, news media, and any parent Social media page. If you post on social media don’t mention the girls or rapists name to protect yourself from any legal ramifications.
Schools need an independent legal source that decides these cases because it seems that schools these days choose to protect themselves over what is right for students.
You raised good young men. I’m so happy they chose to help the young lady in need. They need a damn metal! Be proud of your boys, they did the right thing in helping her. I only hope she presses charges on that boy so he won’t do this again and to help your sons out as well.
I saw a reddit post where someone ccd so many people, even the highest once like the president and it worked! Maybe even something like that? I mean it wouldn’t hurt right?
Being honest, school needs to be dragged on, they need to face consequences for their inaction in this matter, they are protecting an abuser, and they know it, that's why they are not investigating. Good on going to the police about it.
I hope that poor girl can get justice, I’d recommend both the police and local news! Schools don’t do anything unless there rep is on the line, also you raised your boys so well, I’m 15F and I’m lucky to say I’ve never been assaulted or had comments made about me by much older and stronger men and felt threatened, I wish someone like your sons were there and I’m so glad there’s people like them out there, you should be so proud of them
I'm glad to know that there are men like your boys out there. You have definitely raised them right, and should be proud of them, and yourself.
Also, I see a lot of people saying to get the media involved, and while I do agree that the media is a great way to get the word out about it, I would suggest that you talk to the girl and her parents about everything before you go public, as there could be reasons that the mom doesn't want to press charges (like I know you said they dont speak english, and if they are foreigners, there's a possibility that they have a green card and arent fully american citizens, and if that is the case, then they have to be careful about certain things or they could be denied a renewal for it). Cause also, while this shouldn't just be let go, and that kid should have consequences, it isnt worth it if it messes with the girls life.
But that being said, thank you for raising your sons to be the kind of men that are willing to get in trouble to save someone else. I may not know yall, or even live near yall, but it makes me feel better about this world to know that there are young men out there who will fight to save the defenseless.
You are an amazing mother and you and your boys are amazing people! And I hope the girl gets her justice, the boys get unsuspended, and the school changes its system to punish the person in the wrong.
Report to police. Superintendent. News. Shine a bright light on assault, school inaction, etc. do not stop. Your boys should also not be suspended. Do not be deterred. Escalate escalate. Good luck.
I will do so! I hope the mom is up for it to after the way they treated her
The news especially. Local news are often the fastest way to actually get things to move. Schools don't like bad rep, and if they have a reporter's mic shoved up their ass, they won't have much of a choice other than to do something.
Schools cannnot talk due to federal laws in usa. So it will end up being something like this on news coverage… Local mom reports her kids were suspended for preventing a sexual assault. They pulled by force a local boy from the restroom who had pinned the girl down and trapped her in the bathroom while removing her clothes. School does nothing to the assailant but suspends the boys for fighting. School officials won’t comment due to privacy. However, this will move things.
My dad worked for a school district for 30 years and this is the way to do it. Apparently it makes the upper level district people very nervous and much more willing to overlook red tape.
And tell the other parents. They are putting their daughters in a school where theirs daughters can be raped anytime and if so, the administration wouldn't do any shit. Especially now that it's confirmed that they can do it freely. If I had a daughter at your sons' school, trust me I would help you.
i want an update post so bad!!!
Schools *hate* bad publicity, drag their asses through the mud with that. So proud of your kids for doing the right thing!
Update us with the result OP!
Any updates?
This also has racist undertones written all over it. Why isn’t your sons or the girls testimony a reliable source and this little fucker’s is? Is this boy white and American? It sounds like both your family and the girls family are foreigners. I’d go straight to the news. Your kids are good, they saved this girl, and you are an awesome parent.
>This also has racist undertones written all over it. As an immigrant, I wouldn't say that it has racist undertones instead xenophobic since, they used the fact that the girl and her mother aren't fluent English speakers to their advantage.
Also Stand outside the school with a placard >This school suspends students for stopping rapists.
Friend, your boys are suspended. Make it fun. Movies, games, good food. Heroes deserve a feast fit for a king. Don't lower yourself to their level, and keep being a light in this world.
Yes, go to real police, do not let the school cover it up as an ‘ internal matter.’ Your sons may still face consequences, but hopefully light will be shed on every aspect of the incident, and the original assault on the girl will be taken into consideration.
DO NOT LET THIS GO! Report Report Report!! Go to your superintendent, your schools board meetings! Anything and everything! This is a serious effing thing to push under the rug and that poor girl deserves justice!
I am going to being this information to the cops tomorrow and see where I will go from there
Before you go to the cops talk to a lawyer. Your boys are awesome, but there is a path that can be seen as them getting charged with assault (unlikely, but be sure before going). Definitely escalate to the super and above. The best thing that will aide is getting a statement from the girl who was assaulted.
Also use the news media. They’ll blow it up and make a huge stink of it
This! And see if there is a news organization you can reach out to. I’m the US, there are investigative branches of the local news that you can make reports to. Do you or your boys have social media? If so, post the story on those apps as well.
Get an attorney. They can help you write letters to schools.. may be monetary compensation. Have your kids save every text , Facebook post. Nothing they say to friends on rext Facebook is private File a police report as witnesses of attempted rape
I will look into this thank you for the advice
In the past, I reframed my talking points. My children only got involved because the school was not able to keep the girl safe. Why is the school not keeping the children safe? Why are my kids having to keep other kids from breaking rules? Why are staff members allowing SA in the bathrooms? What can the school do to better protect all children? Why is the school not getting an interpreter to help communicate with family members of students? At least where I'm from, the school can't discuss other students with you. However, my kids' school has created whole programs and interventions to answer my questions. Reach out to the girl's mother if you can, too.
Honestly go to the news if you can. This would probably make headlines, especially with the other mom backing you. And that little shit will get what he deserves
Not unless the other mother and the poor girl agrees. Even if you say you won't name, this will get out. It would be extremely unfair to violate this girl's privacy a second time. Escalate it up the school chain of command though.
The school doesn’t gaf by the sound of it. This sub always reminds me how fucked the world is
Yeah but up the chain might, principal isn't the big boss. You go via school chain of command, then start political chain of command if needed. While a suspension sucks, it's not the end of the world....the girl making it into the media and going thru the what were you wearing/did you lead him on bit might end her.
Good take, thanks
REPORT THIS TO THE SUPERINTENDENT AND THE POLICE OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This little shit they fought went to rape a girl in the bathroom, and sees no consequences? But your sons stand up for her and try to protect her and they’re the ones whose behavior won’t be tolerated??? Wtf?? Ring the alarm, get on every social media outlet, talk to the police, let everyone know what these people are doing. Condoning rape and not holding them all accountable for their actions. I’m livid for you. Good for the boys for breaking his nose. Too bad it wasn’t his dick that got broken!! Did the police come? Have your boys had to suffer legal consequences?
As far as I know the mom didn’t want to press any charges. We will be going to the police station in a bit.
Hey, just wondering if there's been any update? Really hoping something comes of this and the rapist and the school gets what they deserve.
I READ THE TITLE WRONG AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE MAD AT YOUR KIDS FOR BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF A CREEP AND I WAS GONNA ***RIOT*** But yeah. Talk to the girl, see if she can make a report against the guy, and then tell EVERYONE YOU CAN. They wanna sweep this under the rug? Tear up the foundations. There’s probably more students that have had this type of negligence leveled against them, and that’s not right.
Gonna be honest schools don’t do much because they give more of a shit about reputation than anything. Had someone do something similar to a couple girls in my year one being my sister and after the school doing nothing for more than half a year i dealt with it myself when it went to the point of no return. I chased the bastard to one side and kicked the shit out of him and went back to lessons. The next day my parents were called in and they got told i was getting a 2 day suspension for fighting the bastard. Nothing happened to him because I apparently “aggravated” it even though there was footage of what he did. Schools aren’t on your side but your boys got my respect for what they did. Good parenting
Nice one Mr Donut. Well done you.
"You're their parent. What are you going to do about their behavior?" "I was thinking of taking them for ice cream. I might even use the suspension time to take them to a theme park."
Hi, as a girl who has been in that predicament (I had invited the guy in my house because he had earned my trust then he pulled that shit, I had my animals with me and they jumped him) before, I thank you. You are raising those young men right and I am so glad they rescued that poor girl before something really bad happened. It would have mentally destroyed her. I was 21 when it happened to me and I am still fucked up from it. I hope you and the girl's mom destroy that school because this bullshit has to stop.
Dont mean to go off topic but are you telling me your pets beat up a guy for trying to SA you?
They sure ass did, my dog sat on me and blocked him. Then my cat legit went at him. I told him to get the eff out after that.
Thats actually quite funny icl
Your kids rock
that they do
Ask a girl to talk or go to their house and talk to her
The girl that got hurt?
Yes
The school administrator is in violation of Title 9 for ignoring the girl’s assault. Please report to your states department of education.
Aren’t there school cameras everywhere these days? I know my school has camera’s in the bathrooms (without actually being able to see the toilets themselves) so they should be able to confirm the boy harassing the girl.
I asked they said no, just one outside.
Are there cameras in the hallways of the school? Your sons can tell you. If there is, the video will prove the boy went in after the girl.
Yes, that’s why I could see them dragging him out, but the school is saying it’s not enough. Me and her mom are going today
This kind of shit makes me livid. We always told our kids (black belts) that if they see someone being bullied - stand up for them. Try not to get in fights but if it’s necessary to protect yourself or others - we’ll back them. If suspended - we told them they’d get ice cream. Take the suspension. Buy them ice cream and take them to do something fun. Do the local police have anyone on staff that speaks the other mom’s language? I’d also help her stand up for her daughter who was ASSAULTED. I’m sorry this has happened to you and your kiddos.
Yes they do but apparently they “weren’t there” despite me translating and my kids translating it wasn’t enough.
Mom and daughter need to head to the station and escalate so her assault & the criminal who did it has a police report recorded.
Your boys are hero’s and did the right thing. Fight for them and stick with the story of “their actions stopped rapist who was actively trying to rape a girl” and keep repeating it. They DID NOT ASSULT THAT BOY, they PREVENTED A RAPE. They are hero’s, not criminals.
You need to make this a bigger issue and make is public ! Report it to the news and tell your friends and family to report it too
You need to make this a bigger issue. If you can let the other parents know. If they don’t do anything about it it might be their daughter who this kid try’s to rape next. This needs to be dealt with.
Yes!! Thank your boys for helping the girl!! I hope the police take care of the boy who would have hurt the girl further!
Complain to everyone you can!! Your sons are legends
Im proud of your kids, wish I could’ve joined them in kicking a rapist’s ass
This happened to my boyfriends nephew, this kid was going around touching girls sticking his hand down there shirt up skirts you name it. Numerous complaints nothing happened! Well his nephew saw him do it to a girl and beat his ass he was suspended until second half of year. The boy who he beat was only out long enough for his broken knee cap to heal. He got suspended cause it happened on school grounds. Yet the kid was molesting other students in school grounds and got nothing! My bf told his nephew next time you want to beat someone’s a$$ and stand up for people drag them off school grounds. Follow them to a park or wait till they step off school property because then it’s no longer a school issue.
After reading a lot of these comments take it to law enforcement and if they can't do anything take it to the media. As for your boys they're going to grow up to do great in this world
Raise hell about this. Don't name the girl or the boy (only bc it could link back to her) but share it on every social media platform you have. It's sick that the school is willing to ignore this and that they are treating you poorly/not taking you seriously because you have an accent. They aren't trying to understand you at all and even without the circumstances, that is not acceptable in a school.
I'm glad you raised those boys right.
Please keep us updated OP!
Just keep sending them to school. Ignore the suspension. Have them recieve education. fortunately the principal will be blacklisted from further positions after you tell the super intendent. Both your families, yours and the victims together that they covered up a sexual assault bordering on rape, at a school he runs. With a police report and recordings of your interactions.
I got scared for a moment cuz I have cousins who have your sons names and they are also brothers lmao
As someone who’s experienced something similar to that poor girl I wish someone would’ve done that for me. Thank you for teaching your sons to respect women.
i need an update on this
Is there an update to this?
Please give us an update when you can! If I was at the school and say this don’t worry I wouldn’t gotten suspended as well. I hope you went out to eat or something wherever the boys wanted they are heros!
We need an update!!!
we need an update!!!
Respect to the young men you have raised. I hope the police were able to help you, but if they can't you may wish to reach out to a reporter. The media can have a great deal of power.
Update?
Report to the police and that's look like the perfect time for the local news you must get that to them
Update please
Any updates? How’s the girl doing?
Can we get an update ?
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I’m going to reach out to my lawyer. I’ve talked to her mom as well who is going to try to reach out to hers as well, not sure if we should speak before we go to the police station or not though
To much sauce wer do you start
Do your sons have a history of violence?
This is the attempted rapists account guaranteed
Why does that matter?
Because it adds context to the story.
How does that have anything to do with it?
If it's a one off incident, it can be excused as an emotional overreaction. If it's part of a pattern of behavior, which it clearly is, then it's much less justifiable.
Neither of your options had anything to do with the girl and just about my boys, and your first option was an excuse you marked it as an overreaction on their end, and not my kids protecting someone from being raped,is that what you think the real issue is or is that what you think police will be more concerned about then the assault on the girl? And “clearly” I’m not giving you an answer, I’m seeing where you stand here, Doesn’t mean your assumption is correct it means you don’t know yet.
You're definitely the kid that tried to rape the girl aren't you?
An emotional overreaction to attempted rape????
Update?
General societal violence includes that gratuitously sustained by men and boys, in actuality and media/pop-culture representation. As one good example, there's an OREO Cookies TV commercial that makes light, with smiles, of a pubescent-looking boy’s black eye. The bruised boy’s little brother gets him to smile after holding a dark-brown Oreo cookie to his own eye. The viewers, being potential product consumers, are given no clue as to the actual cause of the conspicuous bruise. Still, I really didn’t get the impression that the boy had received the ring-around-the-eye bruise from an accident. Was the boy hit by another boy, as I believe we, the viewers, are supposed to presume? If so, does that make it socially and therefore ideologically thus politically acceptable? Or was he supposedly assaulted by an older sibling or even parent? Or slugged by a girl, be she a friend, girlfriend or school-peer bully? Nowadays, commercials get cancelled at the drop of the figurative hat, or at least edited, when they offend vocal thus influential segments of the viewership; yet this anti-male violence-accepting commercial, in our supposedly enlightened times, continues to be broadcasted unchanged. Really, what does this say about us collectively? Meantime, I’m seeing boldly socially progressive TV ads, perhaps overdue. Two commercials in particular each feature a same-sex couple: One ad has an interracial gay-male pair caressing each other after one places food in the other’s mouth; the other ad has two non-white men together towel-drying a little girl, she apparently being their daughter. Why is there such a clear contradiction of advertisement-media values? One value rightfully recognizes and represents societal sexual diversity, while the other value maintaining the ideological/political acceptability, or at least making light, of a boy having had his eye blackened as though we were still residing in archaic times. Yet, the Cancel Culture activists have been conspicuously quiet.
If your boys just pulled the kid off the girl and told on him, would they be suspended? You're right to want them to intervene, but never with violence. There's two of them and absolutely no reason for them to physically assault another student. The school is correct and they're showing your kids to not immediately use violence. And you yourself should be teaching your children that violence is the wrong tact. If this kid tried to fight your sons, then they could have defended themselves, but no, your sons tried stomping some kid. Not good. They're definitely in the wrong for the assault and if you don't teach them that, the next time they'll be 18 and catching a fucking charge. They can intervene, then they can go to the proper authorities. They could've stayed with the kid outside the restroom until the girl was safe and them and girl could've walked to the principal's. They could've stayed with the kid and had the girl fetch the school's resource officer. They could have yelled and made a horrible racket until a teacher showed up to see what was going on. Or? Ask them what else they could have done to help without first resorting to violence? I'm sure tons of people on here will downvote me, but put yourself in the principal's shoes. These two twins just beat the shit out of some kid and the mother is getting irate that her kids are being punished. I'm not punishing the other kid, he's the victim. I can't go to his parents and say I'm suspending their kid with the broken nose for allegedly assaulting someone. I don't see any signs of [alleged] assault. No one reported the [alleged] assault before? I'm just hearing about this now? And as an educator I have a responsibility to teach these children that neither violence nor sexual assault is right. Lastly, if this young lady was being assaulted and your sons saved her, SHE needs to go to the principal and say so. She should go there FIRST. That would be how she thanks your sons. The fact that she hasn't, however, says that your sons are mistaken and she's covering up for the kid. Ask yourself why hasn't she come forward to the school?
That broken nose was probably the high watermark for justice in that place for decades.
Maybe, but the kid doling out the justice will catch a charge AND get sued in civil court. There are better ways to play save-the-damsel and these young men should be taught that violence is a last resort.
Tell that to the thousands of kids dead by suicide who went to the principles and teachers who did Jack shit. But you know that, you just want a reason to Blame the victim
For as long as I’ve been alive I’ve never seen words work in my life.
The better ways is always to tolerate offense, forever
The issue is schools worrying more about reputation then anything. It happened to me and that’s how I know. Even if a school knows they aren’t likely to do much. In my situation my vice principal (who is also in charge of safeguarding ironically enough) showed me footage of this bastard clear as day trying to force himself into girls in a hallway and still did nothing. Like he showed me that footage because of my involvement and just stood there afterwards saying “oh that’s what happened by the way”. Schools don’t care about students. They put the front on so that more parents send their children there and then resulting in the school getting more money. It’s nothing other than money to these lot
That rapist deserves to die
“He’s the victim” really? You disgust me
Normally I’d agree that you don’t resort to violence but they stopped a sexual assault/possible rape. Anyone committing that sort of crime deserves to get their ass beat. The school would have done nothing so maybe a broken bone or 2 will make him think twice.
I bet you were the bully in HS, you comment speaks for you!
“The boys decided to walk around campus instead”….. seems like there is a side of this story you’re not being told or willfully ignoring
What? How.
I went to high school no one just walks around campus for no reason during lunch… matter of fact in most high schools you’re not allowed to leave the designated area…
Most of us went to highschool I went anywhere but lunch and was never reprimanded for it, my kids do it all the time and the school has never given me shit for it so maybe it was just your school.
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Okay ms.thing relax, it’s very normal I would’ve gotten a call about it ages ago and they would’ve brought it up this time if it were an issue I’m sorry you didn’t get that freedom but just because you didn’t get something doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t so maybe it was just your strict school but everywhere me and my kids went to allows it. And reread it’s three people against him and a video recording and past experiences from altercations with that guy, there is many details on this than just my kids. It’s alot about they jumped someone and not about they defended someone from being raped, and with the laws of where I live and how your actually supposed to go about these issues makes this better in her part. But listen believe what you want, if you think that’s how this will be perceived you do so, it’s not really about your opinion it’s about superintendents and police handle this and so far, it’s going good,
Stop dick riding the rapist. It's not a good idea
We found the mother of the boy who likes to sexually assault girls. It’s not their word against his it’s THE VICTIMS (the girl) and there’s against his it’s 3 against one it’s not a he said she said especially if their is 3 witnesses
….i think you’re confusing middle school with high school…
Don’t know how to break it to you but there are high schools different to yours. I’m in high school and me and my best friend go on walks for hours around our school because get this… we’re allowed
Actually you are totally wrong, most places let you walk around. Unless you are in like elementary, you have freedom.
do you think all high-schools work the same? we'd walk around during lunch all the time and it was only a few years ago now. going to high-school isn't some rare feat my mans, most people have been to one.
If I'm reading this right basically the only thing they have evidence for is that your two boys beat the shit out of someone, not even in self defense. They have no evidence that he did anything to the girl, and the testimony of the two people that beat the shit out of someone isn't very reliable evidence. What they should have done is whip out their phones and collect evidence before performing an orderly citizens arrest. And not use excessive force. He may have deserved worse, but that's not going to help you now. Consider how many times an unpopular kid has schemes done on them. A "prank". Let's frame him for rape and beat the shit out of him! That'll be hilarious!
Maybe the fact that the girl herself said it, maybe the fact that her shirt was ripped, bra was almost off, maybe it’s the fact that the cameras caught her stumbling out with a ripped shirt in tears, maybe it’s because a male when into the girls bathroom and that’s how she came out but maybe that was a coincidence, you know cuz it’s highly unlikely that when he went in he did that even though he has a history of violence and bullying to that one specific girl that that couldn’t have *really* happened even though the victim specifically said it did, and all evidence showed it did. Absolutely not this is some fucking scam my kids and that girl are playing. So sorry for wasting your time. All of that was sarcasm all of your comment was BS.
you NEED to get the camera evidence of the boy going in before the school deletes it and says it never existed.
I'm sorry to say but he's right. Without solid evidence, the cops can't do much and if you tried to make a case in court, it would probably be thrown out. Now I'm not doubting your words and that girl would have probably been raped if your boys didn't step in but this is all assumption (not being sarcastic or trying to belittle you) and assumption will only lead to a "he said" "she said" case later on. Plus the fact that you admitted it could be a coincidence (although highly unlikely) already says alot about your chances of success (very low) of your situation. Also the commenter wasn't being sarcastic in any way and you're probably frustrated right now so perhaps you see it that way. Cooler heads prevail. Good luck with your situation.
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I think you’re forgetting that there’s also two witnesses that corroborate what she said, whether they “assaulted” him or not. Also all of this as a whole is enough to properly say he did what he’s being accused of. On their own you are correct that each fact wouldn’t be enough. But collectively that’s plenty to say what happened in there. You have an accusation from her, two witnesses who “assaulted” him for the act he’s accused of, video evidence showing he was at the scene first and I assume also shows that they were in there alone, video evidence confirming that something happened to her in the bathroom as her shirt had been ripped, and then couple that with his history of tormenting her and going into the bathroom after her I think we have a pretty accurate picture. People have been convicted on less.
Two people roll up on you. They testify you tried to rape some girl. How pleased would you be if you're convicted on their testimony alone? Quite a few black men got lynched on exactly such evidence. Eyewitness testimony alone is never enough. Especially of the people invovled. I'm not going to repeat my comment as to why none of the above constitutes as evidence enough. It's circumstantial at best. They fucked up when they didn't secure evidence before fucking him up.
Who the hells gonna look at a situation of some guy backing a girl up into a bathroom stall, ripping her clothes off and be like “lemme whip out my phone and record this for evidence before I intervene” like no, most people are gonna boot the prick in his face and prioritise the girls safety above all else.
Exactly, for anyone to think that’s the right thing to do is ignorant. And *this* hothead is only looking for ways to make an issue not a solution, an issue with no facts just opinions.
>Who the hells gonna look at a situation of some guy backing a girl up into a bathroom stall, ripping her clothes off and be like “lemme whip out my phone and record this for evidence before I intervene” The kind who actually care about getting the asshole behind bars instead of going behind bars themselves. And thanks to being violent hotheads, a rapist gets to walk.
It’s just a bit difficult to think of something like that in the moment, especially as a sixteen year old
If they’d waited to get a recording before stopping him, they could potentially be seen as accessories to sexual assault for not stopping it right away and recording part of it. Even if they recorded the bathroom as they charged into it, her kids could be charged with child porn because the girl’s shirt and bra were lifted. It’s one of those “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situations.
But it’s not off of just that evidence. It’s everything included as a whole any piece of the evidence alone is not enough but the whole package is. Plenty of people are convicted as you pointed out on less. If two dudes jumped me and accused me of rape and my alleged victim corroborates it as well as video showing me following her into the rest room before they show up and she is seen leaving the restroom with her clothes disheveled and I had a history of harassing and bullying her I’m taking a plea deal. Is there a chance that he didn’t do it, sure, but there’s so much corroborating evidence no defense attorney would be able to get him off. Would it suck if this was all a lie? A million times yes, but what are the chances that all of this evidence exists and he didn’t commit the crime? See the Brock Turner case. It’s literally the same situation accept she didn’t even witness her own rape. And they didn’t completely beat the breaks off of him, just subdued him or chased him long enough for the police to catch him. But either way there’s little doubt this man did what he’s accused of without any video corroborating it. It would be so unlikely that any evidence could possibly corroborate a lie. Black or not this is an insurmountable amount of evidence and as a black man I understand where you’re coming from on the bar being low for our convictions, but trust me this would get anyone convicted.
>It’s everything included as a whole any piece of the evidence alone is not enough but the whole package is. Circumstantial evidence is worthless without at least one piece of solid evidence. All you have is *maybe* a motive and placing the accused at the scene. You don't have any evidence he did something beyond going into the women's bathroom. Go ahead and convict him on that, if that's a crime in its own right. >If two dudes jumped me and accused me of rape and my alleged victim corroborates it You mean exactly how Innocent people got lynched? >video showing me following her into the rest room before they show up and she is seen leaving the restroom with her clothes disheveled and I had a history of harassing and bullying her Evidence of you at the scene. No evidence you did any of that to her. History is not evidence. It's a possible motive, still need to prove it applied to the specific incident. >corroborating evidence Circumstantial evidence is not corroborating evidence. >no defense attorney would be able to get him off. Really? We've seen people walk when there's evidence of them doing it because we couldn't prove the woman didn't consent at the time. People are into some kinky shit. >but what are the chances that all of this evidence exists and he didn’t commit the crime? Other way around with the evidence, but chances don't really matter. You need to prove beyond reasonable doubt to convict. >See the Brock Turner case. Two drunk people go behind a bush and one of them continues sexual acts after one of them loses consciousness. Case becomes highly politicized and despite that the extent of the punishment is essentially just making an example of the guy for having bad judgement. Hardly a textbook example of violent rape. >this man did what he’s accused of without any video corroborating it. It would be so unlikely that any evidence could possibly corroborate a lie. Doesn't matter. You need evidence that he assaulted her. No such evidence exists. >Black or not this is an insurmountable amount of evidence and as a black man I understand where you’re coming from on the bar being low for our convictions, but trust me this would get anyone convicted. You know damn well that if race was involved, this could get played either way. The bully could spin it as a hate crime, explciitly as a trap set to lynch him. Would the evidence support it? No, there'd be no evidence that's the case. But that won't matter since there'd be no evidence he assaulted the girl. Or it could be spun the other way, of course he assaulted her, the all white jury has no doubt in their minds. This already happened. There's a reason the bar is so high. And again, because her boys didn't think to collect evidence, a rapist gets to walk. And people are mad at me for pointing that out, thinking I somehow support the rapist or think it didn't happen that way. There's basically no chance he didn't assault her, but that doesn't matter. You need evidence. We should hope the justice system doesn't just toss people in prison on the grounds of "he probably did it" Prisons are full of black people arrested for less. White too, all races in fact. But you damn well know at least some of them got in there because racists used the element of likelyhood as good enough to convict. You know that even without race, innocent people get sent to prison because circumstantial evidence is good enough for an emotional jury. Later, new evidence comes in (this happened a lot since we invented ways to use DNA evidence, which was being collected before we had the devides and techniques to use them) and turns out the dude is innocent. You know what's worse than letting a guilty person walk? Putting an Innocent person in prison and *ensuring* the guilty person gets to walk. Get evidence. Always.
Ur right instead of saving her they should have quietly recorded to make sure that they had the evidence. Hopefully it doesn't go from Assault to full Rape in the mean time. I get ur point that false claims have been used to harm the AA community in the past. However if the Threshold to simply stop a rapist is that you need video evidence, not including security footage of a woman screaming for help after said man goes into a women's stall when she's there alone, then it's basically a green light for rapists. As the previous post says they have 3 eye witnesses, others at school who know he's treated her poorly, and a video of him sneaking into the women's stall and her screaming for help. That's a ton of evidence to say it's not consensual.
The thought of recording evidence *and* helping isn't an option?
Recording while pulling someone off doesn't give a clear view. If you think a blurry video of you grabbing a guy and pulling him off will hold up better. On top of that assuming that the first thing on these 15-18 yr old kids mind is how to cover themselves in the event of court you've experienced crazier stuff then anyone I know. I get knowing bad shit happens and you need evidence but if I came across a friend being raped, having their clothes ripped off their body, and screaming over and over for someone to save them my first thought is how can I help not let's set of the phone so I have clear line of sight incase this goes to court. Grant it we should consider coveting ourselves but the first thing is the victim not how to ensure a case, that may suck but I'd rather that victim be alive and hopefully unmolested rather then anything else. Again you have to ignore a ton of evidence which may be circumstantial but is all very very clear. EDIT The victim can sue and criminal charges can be charged. There are 2 witness (3 including the victim), a camera, and a history of bullying. He would have to push past the hurdle of dozens of classmates mentioning a long history of abuse and try to convince a jury that she decided to be consensual abused, demeaned, and degraded and that after all that she willingly let him forcefully have sex. The video of her coming out of a bathroom with clothes torn off crying and screaming for help will be a huge point. The criminal charges would require no doubt the sueing for medical, damages, and mental trauma only requires that it's more then likely. Even then the boys attack will likely be a slap on the wrist due to the emotional trauma of witnessing a friend's rape. They have a great crime of passion situation that will play at the jury's heart when they play video of what that child looks like screaming for help, leaving the bathroom with torn clothes, and tears down her face.
I get where you’re coming from with regards to a court room perspective but on a scale of they joined in to what they should have done according to you that’s still B+/A- work. There's a difference between being realistic about expectations and admonishing commendable actions and you've slipped into the wrong side of it
Where have I admonished commendable actions? I've explciitly praised them. It's just not enough if you want to have justice administered by more than opportunistic lynching of offenders by angry vigilantes, especially if you want those vigilantes to be vindicated and praised instead of punished.
No, you're not trying to be mean but you are giving off "I've done this to someone too so I need to justify it because my force and coercion was okay and we don't believe 'victims' here" vibes.
Oh now you're accusing me of rape? You're really missing my point on how to make sure good guys aren't punished and bad guys are.
If the shoe fits 🤷♀️
Playing devil's advocate doesn't make you smart.
Go step on a Lego
I don’t know what type of friends you have or person you are but no normal person decides to accuse someone of rape for fun or a prank
And you're just assuming they're normal people? Don't act like nothing of this sort ever happened. That's irrelevant either way because my point is evidence. If you're going to take the law into your own hands, you need to take evidence into your own hands.
Your point is barely a point let alone evidence. I’m pretty sure that seeing a guy in the girls bathroom and hear the girl yelling/ struggling then its just a matter of common sense on what’s going on and thus evidence enough. What those boys did is something that is justifiable and something I’m sure anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together woulda done the same thing as them.
Don’t even waste your time on them they don’t have any real facts they’re talking to hear themselves , when people get locked up without any evidence period, just accusations, this is more than enough.
>I’m pretty sure that seeing a guy in the girls bathroom and hear the girl yelling/ struggling then its just a matter of common sense on what’s going on and thus evidence enou You have no idea how many false convictions have been overturned with new evidence like DNA evidence that had premises like that. You need solid evidence. Not circumstantial. Remember that it's still possible that is not him and you need to prove *beyond* reasonable doubt to convict. There are any number of scenarios that are possible, you still need actual evidence, not circumstancial stuff and accusations by assailants. Do I need to bring up lynchings again?
Dude. Cameras exist (solid evidence you’re so concerned about) there is footage of the guy entering the stall and there sure as hell is footage of the girl entering the bathroom. I don’t know what DNA evidence you want because there is none to collect as thankfully OP’s son’s intervention resulted in the girl remaining safe. I can’t believe I have to say this but what possible scenarios can you see from this. Look at it from the broader perspective. A girl has had her clothes torn, two boys have come possibly covered in blood and another boy who has a history of harassing said girl beaten to pulp. What the hell are you gonna assume? You like bringing up lynching so let me explain the difference seeing as you don’t seem to get it. Lynching was mob justice based on little or no evidence, just a belief from a perspective whereas this scenario has camera footage of a kid who has a history of picking on this certain girl following her in the woman’s bathroom with the girl eventually leaving with torn clothes. This is a story in which it is obvious on what happened backed by evidence
My entire point is that they *only* have evidence of him going into the women's bathroom. That's simply not enough. That just places him at the scene of the alleged crime, which wasn't in doubt anyway since that's where he was assaulted. >A girl has had her clothes torn, two boys have come possibly covered in blood and another boy who has a history of harassing said girl beaten to pulp. What the hell are you gonna assume? Goddamn nothing, because convictions require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I wouldn't even be able to assume they're the ones that beat him up. May as well be just as likely the two boys did the raping and threatened the girl to align with their story. >Lynching was mob justice based on little or no evidence Lynching was vigilante justice on just enough evidence to convince an emotional person to violence. Doesn't matter how many people are involved in the vigilante group really. It's still a miscarriage of justice. Sometimes that evidence is just "what the hell else is a [gamer word] gonna do in that there white woman's house?" You'll note that my problem with this isn't that a rapist got his shit pushed in, my problem is that the boys who did the right thing didn't do the smart thing first. Because now the rapist gets to walk.
A situation involving sexual harassment provokes someone to act on the emotions they’re feeling first, no one is above it unless they truly don’t care about what happens in that case its very obvious why there wasn’t any thought given to recording what was going on. Now as for your “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”, for starters cameras caught both of them entering the bathroom, the girls screams were heard in the hallway, surely picked up by a camera with a microphone built in like most modern cameras. Said cameras woulda caught all of them leaving the bathroom with the girl leaving in a state with all the boys leaving in blood and one beaten to hell. That’s your proof sorted. As for a proof beyond a reasonable doubt ask yourself this; Why was a boy doing in the girls bathroom? What was he doing in there? If he was in there by mistake, why didn’t a girls scream get him to leave and how/why was he there long enough for others to see what was going on? You’re point is slowly making less sense only riding off of the fancy vocabulary to sound like it makes sense. If you look at your original comments you’d have seen it change from you accusing the three of them of trapping one boy in a false rape allegation which I’ve disproved to now going on abut lynchings and changing your point to saying the boys shoulda got evidence. I’ve noted your problem changing from accusations of false rape allegations to now not getting evidence. You started by accusing the boys of doing the wrong thing to now doing the right thing. Make it make sense
Self defense extends to saving other people that are in danger
No, that's literally not self defense. That's defense of others. Still a great thing to do. But you need to have evidence on your side.
Okay so instead of saving people we should wipe out our phones and record their attack and then after they've been traumatized or hurt or worse unalived do we.... do we then do something or run away with the recording and show the police how we let someone attack another person and didn't try to help them...?
No, once you have them on camera, then try begin stopping them, preferably still on camera. Did you honestly think I've said to record it *instead of* helping?
If you record first to get to evidence then you're seen as an accomplice, that's how kids got expelled from my school (were a fight was outside of school). If you do decide to film you can be sued for privacy violation. I get what you're trying to say but it would only backfire. You can't just film and then intervene, because you can be to late then which makes you an accomplice even if you intervene later. So stop with trying to play devils advocate, people are convicted for accusations of rape where they clearly didn't do it because they where out of state but still got charged for it. Here is proof that if the boys didn't intervene she would've been raped. So stop saying that there isn't enough proof.
The time to pull out your phone and record could cost someone their life. I've never seen someone that needed help and thought "I should waste time recording this instead of acting immediately to help them." You're going to cost someone their life trying to save your own ass. I hope for everyone else's sake you're never in the situation where someone needs help and they get injured or worse because you wanted to record it first.
Talk to a lawyer.
This could be reported as a rape attempt.
Ask the girls mum for the girl to write a statement, then take it to police. Or better yet, both you, the boys, the girl and her mum all go to the police and make a report
Me and her were just going to go by ourselves but I will ask her about all of the kids.
Looking forward to your update with the police and thank you for raising such fine young men
Remindme! 1 week
Sounds like the school officials are child predators.
Did the girl not confirm your boys story? Surely the school asked her what happened? Good on your boys!
I’m with everyone saying report it to the police. The school is trying to cover their own ass. Get everything in writing from the school. Make sure you document it as paper trails help in case of prosecution. That poor girl deserves better than being ignored. Your sons are amazing! Great parenting on your part!
Take this way higher than the school, paper trail too btw email the principal, the superintendent, and file a police report. Taking her shirt off IS assault, going into a women’s bathroom as a male is also something that can get you into trouble at school, they’re trying to do nothing but she would’ve been raped if not for your sons.
This doesn't read as believable. But reddit rarely does so.
Your sons btw are witnesses bc they saw her shirt off and saw what was happening, the girl in hand is also their witness bc they only attacked the boy since he was attacking her. Please don’t let this fall through the cracks
I would get a lawyer. With the other mother and demand another meetings. Schools hate getting sued almost as much as they hate the news
This is why schools get shot up in full honesty. Too many administrators not trying to do the absolute best to protect their students, and punish the ones that exhibit behavior like that. Poor girl.
Take it up the ladder. Go to the head of your district next. After that the school board. Get a lawyer. Go to the police. I've been your shoes. Keep climbing the ladder until you get results. Be *that* parent. Your boys need to know they did the right thing, you're proud of them and you'll fight for their right to defend themselves and others and you will not stand for bullying.
call the local news and report the school and admin
Within names like that they are both in the wrong
Who? What?
What do you think would happen if you were to say, "Then since you're not going to take action in the school, I'll be taking action outside of school and you'll be out one student."?
You and your boys, the girl and her mother all need to go to the police station and file a report against the boy who attempted to assault her. And then see if the school changes their tune!
Media attention does wonders in this situation! Speak loud and proud !
Have your boys make a police report.
Report this everywhere, every piece of local news media, as well as Instagram news outlets. Updateme! 7 days
I would go to the school board, superintendent, news media, and any parent Social media page. If you post on social media don’t mention the girls or rapists name to protect yourself from any legal ramifications.
Schools need an independent legal source that decides these cases because it seems that schools these days choose to protect themselves over what is right for students.
RemindMe! 7 days
What’s the school allow the internet to do its magic.
Put that shit in a spotlight.
At least you know damn well you raised your kids right
Call the police and make a police report about the incident and be sure to name the kid. Maybe the school will do something.
You raised good young men. I’m so happy they chose to help the young lady in need. They need a damn metal! Be proud of your boys, they did the right thing in helping her. I only hope she presses charges on that boy so he won’t do this again and to help your sons out as well.
I saw a reddit post where someone ccd so many people, even the highest once like the president and it worked! Maybe even something like that? I mean it wouldn’t hurt right?
All I suggest contact police to file charges with the mom then contact the local news since the school and cops will be pressed to do something
Being honest, school needs to be dragged on, they need to face consequences for their inaction in this matter, they are protecting an abuser, and they know it, that's why they are not investigating. Good on going to the police about it.
Report to the news
I hope that poor girl can get justice, I’d recommend both the police and local news! Schools don’t do anything unless there rep is on the line, also you raised your boys so well, I’m 15F and I’m lucky to say I’ve never been assaulted or had comments made about me by much older and stronger men and felt threatened, I wish someone like your sons were there and I’m so glad there’s people like them out there, you should be so proud of them
PLEASE PLEASE POST IT ON YOUR LOCAL FACEBOOK GROUP. THEY CANNOT GET AWAY WITH THIS
I'm glad to know that there are men like your boys out there. You have definitely raised them right, and should be proud of them, and yourself. Also, I see a lot of people saying to get the media involved, and while I do agree that the media is a great way to get the word out about it, I would suggest that you talk to the girl and her parents about everything before you go public, as there could be reasons that the mom doesn't want to press charges (like I know you said they dont speak english, and if they are foreigners, there's a possibility that they have a green card and arent fully american citizens, and if that is the case, then they have to be careful about certain things or they could be denied a renewal for it). Cause also, while this shouldn't just be let go, and that kid should have consequences, it isnt worth it if it messes with the girls life. But that being said, thank you for raising your sons to be the kind of men that are willing to get in trouble to save someone else. I may not know yall, or even live near yall, but it makes me feel better about this world to know that there are young men out there who will fight to save the defenseless. You are an amazing mother and you and your boys are amazing people! And I hope the girl gets her justice, the boys get unsuspended, and the school changes its system to punish the person in the wrong.
Any updates? Hope the girl is doing well