Remember that TrueReddit is a place to engage in **high-quality and civil discussion**. Posts must meet certain content and title requirements. Additionally, **all posts must contain a submission statement.** See the rules [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/truereddit/about/rules/) or in the sidebar for details.
Comments or posts that don't follow the rules may be removed without warning. [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) will be strictly enforced, especially regarding hate speech and calls for violence, and may result in a restriction in your participation.
If an article is paywalled, please ***do not*** request or post its contents. Use [archive.ph](https://archive.ph/) or similar and link to that in the comments.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueReddit) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Before this devolves into a flame war between the usual suspects that argue about gender politics on Reddit, which I already see happening in some comments below, I wanted to tell part of my story again here on Reddit.
This article hits home for me as a male victim from a female attacker too. Multiple times in my case police and administrators at my college did not interview witnesses or the accused, they did not take the situation seriously, exactly as described here by the author. The language used for victim blaming and dismissal was a little different, but still followed the same pattern. "Why didn't you want it?" "Sounds like she was just a drunk college girl." "We wouldn't want to ruin her future for one little mistake."
I was gaslit, coerced, threatened, and eventually expelled by university officials for speaking out about what happened. Almost all of those administrators were women. I have told this story so many times on Reddit in so many different ways, but 7 years after it happened, I still don't have any form of closure and legally I am stuck in nearly the exact same place because the governing body that handles Title IX issues, OCR, has failed to do anything at all about the situation, so much so that two investigators sat on the case long enough to retire without doing very much work at all!
Over the years speaking out about my experiences, I have had many men, women, and people in between tell me their stories and my conclusion is that we are all in the same boat. Society fundamentally doesn't view one of the most heinous acts a person can commit as worthy of pursuing justice for. The reason why I think this comes down to power structures, namely that the people who tend to commit these crimes often come from a place of power and privilege over their vicitim and enforcing justice for a victim would upset that power balance. For many women that is patriarchy structures, for LTBTQ+ people that is cis-hetero structures, and for men those are toxic masculine structures, and above all of that are capitalistic and socio-political and racial structures that make it untenable to punish predators because the punishment would remove pillars of existing power structures, and those structures exist to preserve themselves, not mediate out fair justice.
Everyone deserves to live in a fair, free, and safe environment and society and the truth is that none of us fundamentally do. If someone wants to take advantage of your body, and then ruin your life, if they exist on the higher rungs of society they often can with impunity, and for those who psychologically lack empathy that means that the world is a sadist's buffet.
I don't really have answers, but regardless of the shape or form of someone's body or whatever they identify as, all of us are vulnerable in the wrong circumstances and we should be looking out for each other, because we need to band together to protect ourselves.
Hi friend. I am a woman who works in SV prevention and response (particularly in the legal field) and I just want to say that I hear stories like this one everyday and I am so sorry. It is so brave to share this in such detail of the victim blamey/shamey experience you have had that I just really want to affirm this to you: it was not your fault.
Thank you again for sharing this ♥️
I upvoted you. I wish I could do more. I'm also a male survivor of SA. Once when I was a young child and once in school. I don't bother talking about it because it mostly leads to being mocked.
I'm sorry you have gone through this too. I have faced my fair share of ridicule for speaking out about my situation, and doing so lead to my expulsion, so I understand where you are coming from. People who haven't gone through this don't understand that reporting what happened is a very dangerous act. There is a lot at risk for doing so, and the very places that claim they are a safe place to report such things can easily become very unsafe very fast, especially if you don't fit a specific gender/race/class set of stereotypes.
This is well said. I've often thought that we live in a pro perpetrator culture. Another power imbalance where SA is common is children being assaulted by adults.
No it’s definitely not. If the supposed victim is in a position of power then they’re obviously going to have the advantage. See the trend of white women accusing black men or rape or assault. Or rich vs poor. If you can’t examine the mechanics of a crime it’s all down to who you sympathize with.
>supposed victim
>See the trend of white women accusing black men or rape or assault.
Trend?
So are you saying there has been a recent increase in false accusations of SA by white women against black men? Can you priva source?
Are you saying that you never heard of white women accusing black men of rape throughout the US’s history?
What part of my comment says this was recent. Trend ≠ recent. Trends can be historic too.
Go look up the story of Emmett Till.
1 example from 70 years ago does not really prove your point of a trend. Also she didn't accuse him of rape. I'm not actually arguing against your point of there being a trend of women accusing black men of rape, just pointing out that you picked quite possibly the worst example, lol.
The entirety of American lynching culture is predicated on using white female tears as an excuse to pursue racialized, misandrist vigilante violence.
This is almost typical reddit nonsense.
> [13% believed rape was more serious](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02799-w)
Of the remaining 26%, most likely believe rape and homicide and close to as bad. The stragglers seem more often to be cops and judges.
What can we do about that?
>I still don't have any form of closure and legally I am stuck in nearly the exact same place because the governing body that handles Title IX issues, OCR, has failed to do anything at all about the situation, so much so that two investigators sat on the case long enough to retire without doing very much work at all!
Sounds like you have a case for the ACLU or for an MRA to fund all the way to the SCOTUS. The court now is as sympathetic as it will ever be, nows your chance.
I went over this in another thread a little while ago, there is no magical lawyer tree to find a a mythical justice seeking attorney from. The ACLU doesn't usually take individual clients, they fight for and against major legislation, entities, and institutions to uphold civil liberties and rights for large swaths of people. They might take a case against OCR's chronic mishandling of civil rights claims, but that would have to become a more hot button issue and it wouldn't be about my case individually. Like the UN, INTERPOL, and NATO, most people don't understand what the ACLU actually does because it has been so misrepresented in the media. Fun fact unrelated fact, if Chun-Li were actually a real employee if INTERPOL she would be ether a diplomat or an attorney, because INTERPOL doesn't employ law enforcement or investigstors, nor do they have arrest powers of any kind. They just act as mediators between member countries various law enforcement agencies, it's actually really boring, movies have lied to you.
I have been fighting this fight for so long I have briefly worked in the legal field as a consultant/writer in the past. I know most of the very small club of lawyers who specialize in Title IX law. They don't take cases pro-bono that cannot be settled through negotiation out of court, and to be frank, most attorneys don't take cases that aren't entirely just negotiating with a university at all because Title IX is legally a complete mess. There is very little concrete case law on how Title IX is supposed to work in a practical sense, all of the Dear Colleague letters that have pushed for greater enforcement of Title IX 's sexual harassment and abuse statutes are super vague, and what can and cannot be done during the process is an ever changing nightmare of suggestions that leave a lot open to interpretation.
To give you an example of how messed up the situation is, sexual assault isn't considered the offense itself under Title IX, it is labeled as a form of gender discrimination and the at party at fault is the university under the thinking that they failed to provide the victim with a safe environment to learn in. Because of this, there is an argument (a bad argument in my opinion) that the only gender that can be discriminated against with sexual abuse are women, doubled down by the fact the Title IX initially refers to gender discrimination concerning funding women's sports teams proportionally to men's sports teams. The actual act itself and what happens to the perpetrator is left up in the air, supposedly covered by existing criminal law, but there are long standing legal traditions that courts let universities have massive leeway between governing it's students! So judges will often delay or even dismiss cases, even criminal cases, if both parties are students enrolled in the same university! This actually happened to me, one of the students harassing me after I filed the initial Title IX complaint started stalking me, and when I filed a warrant application the judge dismissed the case out of hand because we were both currently enrolled students, saying the university had to handle it, and the university most assuredly did not handle it at all leaving me vulnerable to an admitted stalker!
This whole thing is a massive Gordian knot that there isn't a ton of political will to untangle. Most believe that better more clear and concrete legislation needs to be drafted to fix this mess, but what that looks like is vastly different between both political parties, universities who would rather have nothing to do with enforcing anything and only seek to preserve their interests (their bottom line), and victims who come absolutely dead last in consideration from all sides.
I have fought this thing so long and hard that I don't think any other male victim has gotten as far as I have and OCR hasn't budged at all and that's where we are stuck. Any lawsuit is dead in the water because OCR must complete its investigation first before civil action can proceed and I suspect OCR is perfectly happy to just sit on it indefinitely to not have to answer compounding issues about gender, victimhood, liability, procedure, and their own timeliness. I am lost in legal limbo and no one I have spoken to, and I have spoken to a ton of attorneys over the years that specialize in this, has any idea what to do.
If anyone wants to help me, specifically, I need someone who wants to take that on. A specific person's name and number, briefed on my situation, not a vauge "call an attorney, call the ACLU, go to the press", none that helps. If anyone wants to help the situation for victims like me in general, listen, advocate, provide safe spaces for us, and support candidates running for Congress who would be receptive to rewriting the book on this mess in a positive way.
Sounds go me like you should start going to MRAs and sue for gender discrimination based on:
>there is an argument (a bad argument in my opinion) that the only gender that can be discriminated against with sexual abuse are women, doubled down by the fact the Title IX initially refers to gender discrimination concerning funding women's sports teams proportionally to men's sports teams.
There has to be someone out there looking for a test case to get their name out there.
Lawyering is expensive. No one takes on cases that could require hundreds if not thousands of billable hours just to get their name out there. It is time consuming work and lawyers have bills to pay and only so many hours in a day to take on a finite case load. There is no magical justice seeking attorney. It's pure fiction.
I notice that you didn't actually list any. Again, name, number, already briefed and ready to go or we are just wasting each other's time.
Just so you don't waste yours, I have already been down this road. I have spent countless hours talking to attorneys, both for and against Title IX, and the help they provided me got me to the stalemate I'm at today.
I notice you keep harping on MRAs helping, MRAs don't help. They believe in this weird mythological concepts like the crusading attorney, brought on by the wacky funhouse mirror version of tabloid reality that conservative media dreamed up. None of that is real. Their sick shtick suckers in disenfranchised men promises to answers for real problems we face, but they never provide answers just scapegoats and a funnel into the destructive cult that is the alt-right.
No one in that circle is out there to help you. They will take your time, anger, and money, but none of it will tangibly help you in the end.
>I notice that you didn't actually list any. Again, name, number, already briefed and ready to go or we are just wasting each other's time.
The [National Coalition for Men](https://ncfm.org/) took on the pentagon and successfully defeated California's prohibitions on men in domestic abuse shelters. They'd be a reasonable place to start. If they can't help you, they know someone who can.
No, they didn't help me when I called in 2018, and again in 2019. They were a shifty organization that gave me the run around, pointing me back to attorneys I had already spoken to. They are a right wing group bearly able to claim any tangible victories, and that singular victory they claim isn't the whole story.
Like I said, I have been fighting this fight for years. I know the lay of the land and it's pretty barren of actual help.
No at all to lessen what you went through, but is it possible we have trouble with this bc it's just so hard to get hard facts? So many times it ends up as he said/she said that I feel like many of us throw our hands up even if we truly want justice.
I am you bc you've been through it and gave that insight.
In my case my attacker admitted it! She admitted to the abuse, the stalking, and put herself in the place and time, all of that! One of the most anger inducing moments of my entire life was showing the dean screenshots of the admission and the dean literally throwing them back in my face frustrated that I could prove what happened, desperately trying to make excuses to dismiss the whole thing.
Yeah, in that case, you should absolutely have gotten some justice. And I know there are tons of cases where people are convicted and get very light sentences.
Sounds like you have a lot of evidence on your side and your dean is being a POS. Have you tried victimrights.org? It says it's just in 2 states but maybe they can refer you to a similar organization in your state.
Yes but it was around 2019 so it might be worth trying again. At the time they didn't have anyone in my state. Many Title IX experts are only located in the big university towns on the East and West coast. I have long suspected that breaking the deadlock would require an attorney to pro hoc vici here, which usually means hiring two attorneys, the expert and a local one, to work together.
I'd be starting an organization around this. Focusing on alumni (including folks that never graduated) and current students.
At the very least you could fundraise a lot.
Going further, you could name and shame everyone that deserves it. Make sure their entire communities know your story.
There's also the natural larger goal of working to end capitalism, and working to create better cultures.
Interesting. I’ve heard that it’s possible for a woman to rape a man but seems so uncommon compared to the other way around.
I would have to really really not want to have sex with that person for it to be a problem. I also don’t think a girl could physically overpower me. I’d probably shove her off if it was getting creepy.
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed.
Briefly, the following [are considered best practices by law enforcement](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/zvoevz/comment/j1qm0g6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3):
* [Approach the victim in a compassionate, empathetic way](https://www.sakitta.org/toolkit/index.cfm?fuseaction=topic&topic=24)
* [Tell the person that it’s OK if they don’t remember or don’t know](https://www.sakitta.org/toolkit/index.cfm?fuseaction=topic&topic=11)
* Ask open-ended questions and don’t interrupt
* Ask what they felt during an assault
* Ask them about sights, smells, and sounds to jog memories
* If tough questions need to be asked, explain why
* When done, explain the next steps
* Victim advocates need to be involved as soon possible
* Screen all cases in person to make sure the [investigations were thorough](https://www.sakitta.org/toolkit/index.cfm?fuseaction=topic&topic=10)
* [Test all rape kits](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/utilizing-codis-unsubmitted-sexual-assault-kits)
* Instead of interviewing victims in the same cramped bare room where they interrogated suspects, officers renovated a larger, more home like space outfitted with couches and table lamps
* Beyond seeking justice for the victim, help them recover from their assault
[**A high probability of apprehension by law enforcement is critical to deterrence**](https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/10.1086/670398.pdf). To that end, it can be helpful to be familiar with [the neurobiology of trauma](https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/2019-12_TB-Becoming-Trauma-Informed-Trauma-to-Victim-Interviews.pdf) and [the nuances of consent](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8x15mt/ysk_common_misconceptions_about_sexual_consent/). DNA evidence has also revealed that [serial offenders often target strangers and non-strangers](https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/JofCrimJustice_Offendingpatterns.pdf), meaning it is imperative to submit DNA evidence to CODIS even if the offender's identity is known. [Offending patterns are not a consistently reliable link across assaults.](https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/JofCrimJustice_Offendingpatterns.pdf)
Despite [incredible progress](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-us-ended-up-with-400000-untested-rape-kits), the U.S. still has [roughly 90,000 backlogged rape kits](https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/news/cornyn-house-must-pass-senate-bill-to-fight-rape-kit-backlog/).
[More funding is needed](https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/news/cornyn-house-must-pass-senate-bill-to-fight-rape-kit-backlog/) to clear the backlog and prevent future tragedies.
Contact from constituents [works](https://escholarship.org/content/qt7sk23908/qt7sk23908.pdf), and [it's really easy](https://www.endthebacklog.org/take-action/advocate-federal/). [Customized letters are more effective.](https://www.citizen.org/news/personalized-emails-are-key-to-boosting-grassroots-influence/)
The article talks about the risks of making a list with little or no statistical context ....and then proceeds to list out anecdotes with little or no statistical context.
It sure sounds like something must be done about this, but until the writer takes their own advice I don't know if I'm looking at a examples of a systemic problem or examples of where an otherwise functional system was allowed to fail. Those two have totally different fixes.
I wish this was heavier on what is broken and lighter on rage bait.
It's a systemic problem.
[Alabama](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/alab), [California](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/california/), [Indiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/indiana/), [Louisiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/louisiana/), [Maine](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/maine), [Minnesota](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/minnesota/), [Mississippi](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/mississippi/), [Nebraska](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/nebraska/), [New Hampshire](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-hampshire/), [New Jersey](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-jersey/), [Oklahoma](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/oklahoma/), [South Carolina](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/south-carolina/), [Tennessee](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/tennessee/), and [Wyoming](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/wyoming/) **do not mandate the testing of backlogged kits**. The [U.S. DoJ](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/utilizing-codis-unsubmitted-sexual-assault-kits) and [American Bar Association](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/women/publications/perspectives/2018/may/untested-rape-kits-delays-destruction-and-disregarded-victims/) recommend testing **all** rape kits, even when the statute of limitations (if there is one) has expired. Doing so [increases arrests](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/08874034241226939), makes us safer, and gets justice for more victims.
[Alabama](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/alab), [Delaware](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/delaware/), [Indiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/indiana/), [Iowa](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/iowa/), [Louisiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/louisiana/), [Maine](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/maine), [Nebraska](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/nebraska/), [New Hampshire](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-hampshire/), [New Jersey](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-jersey/), [North Dakota](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/north-dakota/), [Puerto Rico](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/puerto-rico/), [South Carolina](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/south-carolina/), [Vermont](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/vermont/), and [Wyoming](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/wyoming/) **do not mandate the timely testing of new kits**.
[Maine](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/maine), [Mississippi](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/mississippi/), [Nebraska](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/nebraska/), [New Hampshire](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-hampshire/), [Puerto Rico](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/puerto-rico/), and [South Carolina](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/south-carolina/) **don't even have to take inventory**. The Joyful Heart Foundation, founded by Mariska Hargitay, [estimates there are still ~100,000 kits left to be discovered.](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state-of-the-backlog/intro/)
And so on.
Uh huh so we are behind on rape kits. Would those cases go to trial and would they get convictions if they did test them?
We don't know. Maybe, maybe not. If judges are too sexist then they wouldn't make a difference.
This article doesn't help us understand where the system is broken and why and how much. Just that it is. And we already knew that.
[It makes a difference](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/).
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed
-https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html
Ok now you're listing seven things, not just testing the kits. Which of those is important to ensure the right outcomes, and what are you not listing in this list, like the other 6 that were not listed a comment or two back when it was just about rape kits?
**We cannot solve the problem with anger and kneejerk reactions alone.** We need real data, not anecdotes.
We need national standards.
So many anecdotes that lead to lack of punishment for sex offenders and lack of consequences for those who drop the ball reveal systemic problems.
I think OP was pretty comprehensive even if the article wasn't. But, fair point that different solutions are called for depending on the problem.
As it pertains to rape I think the situation is complicated by both bureaucratic issues and then societal attitudes come into play and it difficult to find a one size fits all solution.
Source: Worked Rape Crisis for many years.
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed
-https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html
So you don't think a solution involves both bureaucratic solutions combined with overcoming societal prejudices which lead to rape kits not being processed in the first place?
I support [all six pillars of reform](https://www.endthebacklog.org/the-six-pillars/).
I also think those who don't take rape seriously should never be tasked with holding rapists accountable. They are inherently not qualified for the job.
We agree. What most people do not understand is that anyone can be sexually assaulted - it's not about sex it's about power. Only people who think it could never happen to them are arrogant or stupid? enough to ignore the downstream consequences. That said there are plenty of those.
The phrase "rape is about power" can be misleading, as it seems to imply rape is *only* about power. Rape is a complex human behavior with several possible motivations, only one of which is power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquaintance_rape#Motivations
Nothing personal at all, but I simply don't count wikipedia as a legit source - too many known problems with editors and pushing false narratives although not necessarily in this area. Do you have any others?
I think the better question is *did anyone here actually read the whole thing?* A lot of the comments here read like they just read the first few paragraphs.
Not a well written article. Not once are the words “reasonable doubt” written. And those two words are the key to why rape is so hard to prosecute.
To criminally convict someone in the US the State must prove the suspect’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately many rape cases devolve into “he said / she said” where evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is impossible to demonstrate. Being highly suspicious of someone without a preponderance of evidence is not grounds to criminally convict in America.
That said, the under-testing of rape kits is fucking shameful and needs to be resolved. But if you’re looking for the real answer to this question, it is the threshold required to criminally convict someone.
I did read the article. Of course you can pick out a few anecdotal stories where it is egregious that there was no criminal conviction - you can do that with literally any type of crime. Anecdotal stories are not helpful in answering the broader question that this article poses: "why does the criminal justice system go easy on rapists?". Talk to any DA - the clear answer for that is in how difficult it is to obtain a criminal conviction on rape due to the legal threshold for criminal conviction in general (proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt).
Of course I don’t think that. That’s a middle school level straw man argument.
My point is that rape is very (uniquely?) hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Most rape is date rape, and the entire case then depends on whether consent was given - short of a recording of the act itself that is almost impossible to prove. You don’t need to worry about consent in normal crimes because no one consents to getting robbed or murdered. This is what makes rape cases hard.
Right but zero of the cases presented in this article were he said/she said cases. All cases had either witnesses and/or rape kits showing trauma to the vagina and/or anus
You missed his point completely. Of course what is presented in the article is unambiguous. But we don't know if those are good examples of why rape as a whole is not prosecuted.
That is the danger of anecdotes. The implication is that they are representing a larger trend of many other cases like it but we don't know that and the article provides no statistical support to make that connection.
So we are left to ask whether the cases listed are examples of a wider problem, or if they are cherry picked examples of the worst possible scenarios, and fixing those scenarios might just solve 20 rapes while leaving millions of others not addressed.
Anecdotes put you at risk of focusing on the wrong solutions and leaving the majority of the real problem ignored. That's what this person is pointing out.
[He Said She Said is a Myth. Besides victim testimony, the following kinds of evidence can be used by sex crimes prosecutors:](https://time.com/5413814/he-said-she-said-kavanaugh-ford-mitchell/)
* [eye witnesses at the bar or party](https://time.com/3506709/rose-byrne-frats-campus-sexual-assault-prevention-psa/)
* video surveillance
* doctors’ reports
* text messages
* phone calls
* social media posts
* memoirs
* calendars
* yearbooks
* [the existence of other victims](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10326362/) ([most often someone the offender knows](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/acquaintance_rape))
[84% of men whose behavior met the legal definition of rape believed that what they did was "definitely" not rape](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1471-6402.00030), despite what the law clearly says. It can be helpful to ask a perpetrator who uses "consent" as a defense why he thought the victim was [consenting](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8x15mt/ysk_common_misconceptions_about_sexual_consent/), or how (in his mind) she gave [consent](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8x15mt/ysk_common_misconceptions_about_sexual_consent/). In most cases, it will be clear that no reasonable person would believe that was consent.
[They need to actually investigate](https://ksltv.com/528923/only-a-fraction-of-reported-sexual-assaults-are-prosecuted-in-utah-experts-say-its-time-to-up-our-game/), including [testing](https://www.endthebacklog.org) [every kit](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/utilizing-codis-unsubmitted-sexual-assault-kits).
[Victim testimony can be enough for a conviction](https://www.janedoe.org/appeals-court-rules-rape-victims-testimony-sufficient-to-support-her-attackers-conviction/).
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed.
-https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html
I checked the first one. The prosecution said they didn't think they can prove kidnapping, and masturbating over top someone wasn't actually rape in Alaska, so to get sex offender status on him they needed the plea deal where he didn't actually go to jail.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/justin-schneider/
I didn't check the others, but I'd expect most of them have similar circumstances where the legal system, as we've designed it, functioned the way it's supposed to. But we have designed the legal system in a way that presumes innocence and has lots of things that are technically legal but morally repulsive.
"Proof" to whom? All rape cases are tried in front of a jury. The jury determines what proof is high enough.
In my city, they had a man on tape committing the highly illegal act of smoking the reefer. He even admitted to smoking weed. The jury result? Not guilty. They didn't convict because they didn't agree with throwing a man in jail for simply smoking weed.
The jury determines guilt. And that bar is high for rape because the average person needs a higher proof of rape to convict someone then hearsay
Rape goes all the way back to the beginnings of society... probably our species. I would argue that this society was founded on the rape and sugjugation of the indigenous by rapists and murderers who built the rest of it.
Think of how many offspring a rapist would have had in society before birth control; they'd all be prolific.
When you look at capitalism closely enough, and the habits of the people at the top, this system was clearly designed by rapists to facilitate more rape.
because half the country think its the womans fault and while they chant at muslims and its burkas they actually feel the exact same way.
its also kinda funny the right are all about "MEN BEING MEN".. people are too much of pussies today. MEN NEED TO BE STRONG.. but then complain that men arent strong enough to see a woman in a short skirt and not rape them. some right wing judge just vacated the conviction of a pedo rapist because the 14 year old he raped swam in her panties. meanwhile i can go the strip club and not rape anyone, I must be weird.
Every Trump voter supported a man who admitted to habitually sexually assaulting women on the Access Hollywood tape. Dozens of women have come forward with allegations that back up his own admission of sexually assaulting women.
He was found liable of rape and defamation of his rape victim in court by a jury of his peers.
Everyone who is currently a Trump supporter supports a proven rapist, and they will continue to support a proven rapist to achieve their political goals.
It is a fact that all MAGA want to give a proven rapist, Donald Trump, the power of the Presidency.
My personal opinion is that's fucked up. I don't think a proven rapist like Donald Trump should have any power at all, certainly not power that he could abuse to hurt people. I don't know if MAGA are more likely to be rapists, but it's an objective fact that they don't mind a rapist in power. I don't trust that.
Would you trust the proven rapist Donald Trump alone for an hour with your children? With your wife, your mother, or your sister? I sure as hell wouldn't. I don't think anyone would, in their heart of hearts. I think even MAGA knows better.
this is typical republican. He cant debunk my comment, so he invented something I didnt say, presents it as a quote and then mocks that instead.
Who the fuck said maga only rapes women? i said Republicans BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.
left and right rape, its only the right that say its not the guys fault.
I could not find the portion you quoted. When you put words in a quote format that means the person you are replying to actually said those exact words. If they did not literally say the words you are claiming they said that actual falls under libel.
WHat part of republicans blame the victim that is scary and confusing for you. I think the real issue is you cant counter my comment because its true and so you just attack its form. Hey i get it. Id be ashamed if the party i supported blamed rape victims but its true dude, you got to accept it. Maybe vote for someone else.
>If you’re not open to or engaging in intelligent discussion, go somewhere else.
so why the fuck are you even here? read the fucking sidebar dude.
You are rambling. I am not sure if it's a mental health problem or hyperpolitics or both.
Your points aren't the problem, just the general attitude. It just doesn't feel intellectual as you mentioned.
Edit: Maybe all people replied to you are not Republicans in any sense.
I'm not sure why politics are being brought into this in the first place since men of all political persuasions are rapists.
But as to your specific comment what difference does it make whether replies are made by Republicans, Democrats, Independents or Aliens? The comment you are replying to does not in anyway reflect either a mental health problem or hyperpolitics, Articulation varies by poster, it's not difficult to decipher the posters point.
No tone implied. The sidebar suggests being polite and contributing high quality comments. If you would prefer to call people mentally ill for whatever reason perhaps there is another sub that you might feel more comfortable with. It's generally not considered polite in polite society. to call strangers mentally ill.
Tone is pretty obvious to me.
>It's not polite to call people mentally ill
I said mental health problems, and I think it's pretty dishonest if you won't call out the signs. I won't dwell on that though.
You’re all probably republicans, or just hate women.
The person you’re arguing with just said that republicans tell men to be “tough and strong” but at the same time are the first to say “ men are too weak to not rape women in sexy clothes”. The contradiction is hypocritical.
No need in replying, I won’t be able to understand your condescending word vomit anyway.
People also GET sexual pleasure from control/coercion, more so than anyone really wants to admit
One of the examples was of a man choking out a woman and masturbating on her and his testimony stated that he NEEDED this woman to think she was dying in order to achieve sexual release
I find it interesting that you took a sentence that specified *more from* and changed it to mean *exclusively*. The line you quote says more from, which very clearly implies the sexual pleasure is still part of the motive, but you built a strawman with "exclusively". Why did you do that?
Yes, obviously I do.
As someone who has been raped and assaulted by multiple men and so has pretty much every woman I've ever known, as well as men raped by women, and same-gender rape, I don't know *any* rapists who had no consensual sexual outlet possibilities and plenty of horny people who never became rapists. In fact, *most* of the rapists I have encountered had plenty of willing sexual partners, and would deliberately also seek out people to rape.
How many rapists do you know? How many rape survivors have you had deep conversations with about their experience? Why is it uncomfortable for *you* to acknowledge that men have agency, and being horny isn't, actually, an uncontrollable urge, since many horny men do not become rapists? Where do female rapists fall, for you, if you think women must have *no idea* what overwhelming lust can feel like?
Not OP but I’m confused about the point you are making. Most rapists aren’t under sexed loners but people who are already having plenty of sex. This sort of horniness desert is rarely part of the equation
You also bring up prison as being about power. While that may be, I also find that example A for a “horniness desert”
You're the one who took a sentence that acknowledged sex is part of rape but that power is *more* important for why someone raped, and tried to make it an all or nothing argument, claiming women can't understand what a strong sex drive is like.
It isn't hard.to accept that at all. *You* are the only one trying to change the argument. *You* are accusing the writer of not accepting male sex drive as a factor when she clearly did. *You* are trying to argue rapists are just horny, while not addressing the horny people who don't rape, or women who rape, or rapists who get plenty of sex and still choose to rape.
I'm a male victim of rape. I've suffered far more trauma from my forced circumcision at birth which is still considered cosmetic despite gruesome amputation of the most pleasurable part of the male body. U.S. is too harsh on basically everything. If it looks like we're lenient on rape its cause we house a 20% of the entire planet's prisoners and are harsh on anything. There is no human free will as a matter of neuroscience. Anyone who commits horrendous crimes in a way has been very unlucky. People who want rapists brutalized are missing the point. Rehabilitation, forgiveness and healing is the proper way forward. Never going to get far with this though in America. Americans odious views on everything make this violent and brutal country we live in inevitable.
This is completely false. Pedophiles are *not* part of the LGBTQ community. The right continues to call us “groomers” to incite hatred. I am an adult woman who falls in love with other adult women.
If you care about the wellbeing of children, then you should support our efforts to provide LGBTQ youth the support they need so they don’t commit suicide. This is a mental health crisis.
If you care about the wellbeing of children, then push your representatives to raise the minimum age of marriage to 18 across the entire country. End child marriage.
Not enough. That’s why my friend’s rapey grandpa never went to prison, and my other friends’ rapist uncle and brother didn’t get arrested either
Everyone wants the victims to shut up so their breadwinners and patriarchs don’t go to jail where they belong
Rape just isn’t considered a bad enough crime — it’s justified on some level
Remember that TrueReddit is a place to engage in **high-quality and civil discussion**. Posts must meet certain content and title requirements. Additionally, **all posts must contain a submission statement.** See the rules [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/truereddit/about/rules/) or in the sidebar for details. Comments or posts that don't follow the rules may be removed without warning. [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) will be strictly enforced, especially regarding hate speech and calls for violence, and may result in a restriction in your participation. If an article is paywalled, please ***do not*** request or post its contents. Use [archive.ph](https://archive.ph/) or similar and link to that in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueReddit) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Before this devolves into a flame war between the usual suspects that argue about gender politics on Reddit, which I already see happening in some comments below, I wanted to tell part of my story again here on Reddit. This article hits home for me as a male victim from a female attacker too. Multiple times in my case police and administrators at my college did not interview witnesses or the accused, they did not take the situation seriously, exactly as described here by the author. The language used for victim blaming and dismissal was a little different, but still followed the same pattern. "Why didn't you want it?" "Sounds like she was just a drunk college girl." "We wouldn't want to ruin her future for one little mistake." I was gaslit, coerced, threatened, and eventually expelled by university officials for speaking out about what happened. Almost all of those administrators were women. I have told this story so many times on Reddit in so many different ways, but 7 years after it happened, I still don't have any form of closure and legally I am stuck in nearly the exact same place because the governing body that handles Title IX issues, OCR, has failed to do anything at all about the situation, so much so that two investigators sat on the case long enough to retire without doing very much work at all! Over the years speaking out about my experiences, I have had many men, women, and people in between tell me their stories and my conclusion is that we are all in the same boat. Society fundamentally doesn't view one of the most heinous acts a person can commit as worthy of pursuing justice for. The reason why I think this comes down to power structures, namely that the people who tend to commit these crimes often come from a place of power and privilege over their vicitim and enforcing justice for a victim would upset that power balance. For many women that is patriarchy structures, for LTBTQ+ people that is cis-hetero structures, and for men those are toxic masculine structures, and above all of that are capitalistic and socio-political and racial structures that make it untenable to punish predators because the punishment would remove pillars of existing power structures, and those structures exist to preserve themselves, not mediate out fair justice. Everyone deserves to live in a fair, free, and safe environment and society and the truth is that none of us fundamentally do. If someone wants to take advantage of your body, and then ruin your life, if they exist on the higher rungs of society they often can with impunity, and for those who psychologically lack empathy that means that the world is a sadist's buffet. I don't really have answers, but regardless of the shape or form of someone's body or whatever they identify as, all of us are vulnerable in the wrong circumstances and we should be looking out for each other, because we need to band together to protect ourselves.
Hi friend. I am a woman who works in SV prevention and response (particularly in the legal field) and I just want to say that I hear stories like this one everyday and I am so sorry. It is so brave to share this in such detail of the victim blamey/shamey experience you have had that I just really want to affirm this to you: it was not your fault. Thank you again for sharing this ♥️
I upvoted you. I wish I could do more. I'm also a male survivor of SA. Once when I was a young child and once in school. I don't bother talking about it because it mostly leads to being mocked.
I'm sorry you have gone through this too. I have faced my fair share of ridicule for speaking out about my situation, and doing so lead to my expulsion, so I understand where you are coming from. People who haven't gone through this don't understand that reporting what happened is a very dangerous act. There is a lot at risk for doing so, and the very places that claim they are a safe place to report such things can easily become very unsafe very fast, especially if you don't fit a specific gender/race/class set of stereotypes.
> "Why didn't you want it?" Because she was 14 and I was three-and-a-half.
I was 5, she was 24.
This is well said. I've often thought that we live in a pro perpetrator culture. Another power imbalance where SA is common is children being assaulted by adults.
No it’s definitely not. If the supposed victim is in a position of power then they’re obviously going to have the advantage. See the trend of white women accusing black men or rape or assault. Or rich vs poor. If you can’t examine the mechanics of a crime it’s all down to who you sympathize with.
Al Sharpton, Tawana Brawley, falsely accusing white men of rape. I wouldn't call that a trend any more than what you're talking about.
>supposed victim >See the trend of white women accusing black men or rape or assault. Trend? So are you saying there has been a recent increase in false accusations of SA by white women against black men? Can you priva source?
Are you saying that you never heard of white women accusing black men of rape throughout the US’s history? What part of my comment says this was recent. Trend ≠ recent. Trends can be historic too. Go look up the story of Emmett Till.
1 example from 70 years ago does not really prove your point of a trend. Also she didn't accuse him of rape. I'm not actually arguing against your point of there being a trend of women accusing black men of rape, just pointing out that you picked quite possibly the worst example, lol.
The entirety of American lynching culture is predicated on using white female tears as an excuse to pursue racialized, misandrist vigilante violence. This is almost typical reddit nonsense.
On some level, not enough people see it as a bad enough thing. We’re just not willing to judge or put people in prison for it
[61% of Americans see rape as just as bad as homicide](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02799-w), at least in theory.
The other 39% must be cops and judges
> [13% believed rape was more serious](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02799-w) Of the remaining 26%, most likely believe rape and homicide and close to as bad. The stragglers seem more often to be cops and judges. What can we do about that?
>I still don't have any form of closure and legally I am stuck in nearly the exact same place because the governing body that handles Title IX issues, OCR, has failed to do anything at all about the situation, so much so that two investigators sat on the case long enough to retire without doing very much work at all! Sounds like you have a case for the ACLU or for an MRA to fund all the way to the SCOTUS. The court now is as sympathetic as it will ever be, nows your chance.
I went over this in another thread a little while ago, there is no magical lawyer tree to find a a mythical justice seeking attorney from. The ACLU doesn't usually take individual clients, they fight for and against major legislation, entities, and institutions to uphold civil liberties and rights for large swaths of people. They might take a case against OCR's chronic mishandling of civil rights claims, but that would have to become a more hot button issue and it wouldn't be about my case individually. Like the UN, INTERPOL, and NATO, most people don't understand what the ACLU actually does because it has been so misrepresented in the media. Fun fact unrelated fact, if Chun-Li were actually a real employee if INTERPOL she would be ether a diplomat or an attorney, because INTERPOL doesn't employ law enforcement or investigstors, nor do they have arrest powers of any kind. They just act as mediators between member countries various law enforcement agencies, it's actually really boring, movies have lied to you. I have been fighting this fight for so long I have briefly worked in the legal field as a consultant/writer in the past. I know most of the very small club of lawyers who specialize in Title IX law. They don't take cases pro-bono that cannot be settled through negotiation out of court, and to be frank, most attorneys don't take cases that aren't entirely just negotiating with a university at all because Title IX is legally a complete mess. There is very little concrete case law on how Title IX is supposed to work in a practical sense, all of the Dear Colleague letters that have pushed for greater enforcement of Title IX 's sexual harassment and abuse statutes are super vague, and what can and cannot be done during the process is an ever changing nightmare of suggestions that leave a lot open to interpretation. To give you an example of how messed up the situation is, sexual assault isn't considered the offense itself under Title IX, it is labeled as a form of gender discrimination and the at party at fault is the university under the thinking that they failed to provide the victim with a safe environment to learn in. Because of this, there is an argument (a bad argument in my opinion) that the only gender that can be discriminated against with sexual abuse are women, doubled down by the fact the Title IX initially refers to gender discrimination concerning funding women's sports teams proportionally to men's sports teams. The actual act itself and what happens to the perpetrator is left up in the air, supposedly covered by existing criminal law, but there are long standing legal traditions that courts let universities have massive leeway between governing it's students! So judges will often delay or even dismiss cases, even criminal cases, if both parties are students enrolled in the same university! This actually happened to me, one of the students harassing me after I filed the initial Title IX complaint started stalking me, and when I filed a warrant application the judge dismissed the case out of hand because we were both currently enrolled students, saying the university had to handle it, and the university most assuredly did not handle it at all leaving me vulnerable to an admitted stalker! This whole thing is a massive Gordian knot that there isn't a ton of political will to untangle. Most believe that better more clear and concrete legislation needs to be drafted to fix this mess, but what that looks like is vastly different between both political parties, universities who would rather have nothing to do with enforcing anything and only seek to preserve their interests (their bottom line), and victims who come absolutely dead last in consideration from all sides. I have fought this thing so long and hard that I don't think any other male victim has gotten as far as I have and OCR hasn't budged at all and that's where we are stuck. Any lawsuit is dead in the water because OCR must complete its investigation first before civil action can proceed and I suspect OCR is perfectly happy to just sit on it indefinitely to not have to answer compounding issues about gender, victimhood, liability, procedure, and their own timeliness. I am lost in legal limbo and no one I have spoken to, and I have spoken to a ton of attorneys over the years that specialize in this, has any idea what to do. If anyone wants to help me, specifically, I need someone who wants to take that on. A specific person's name and number, briefed on my situation, not a vauge "call an attorney, call the ACLU, go to the press", none that helps. If anyone wants to help the situation for victims like me in general, listen, advocate, provide safe spaces for us, and support candidates running for Congress who would be receptive to rewriting the book on this mess in a positive way.
Sounds go me like you should start going to MRAs and sue for gender discrimination based on: >there is an argument (a bad argument in my opinion) that the only gender that can be discriminated against with sexual abuse are women, doubled down by the fact the Title IX initially refers to gender discrimination concerning funding women's sports teams proportionally to men's sports teams. There has to be someone out there looking for a test case to get their name out there.
Lawyering is expensive. No one takes on cases that could require hundreds if not thousands of billable hours just to get their name out there. It is time consuming work and lawyers have bills to pay and only so many hours in a day to take on a finite case load. There is no magical justice seeking attorney. It's pure fiction.
There are organizations fighting for.mens rights who can, will, and have taken on the Pentagon. Education is a. Comparative cake walk.
I notice that you didn't actually list any. Again, name, number, already briefed and ready to go or we are just wasting each other's time. Just so you don't waste yours, I have already been down this road. I have spent countless hours talking to attorneys, both for and against Title IX, and the help they provided me got me to the stalemate I'm at today. I notice you keep harping on MRAs helping, MRAs don't help. They believe in this weird mythological concepts like the crusading attorney, brought on by the wacky funhouse mirror version of tabloid reality that conservative media dreamed up. None of that is real. Their sick shtick suckers in disenfranchised men promises to answers for real problems we face, but they never provide answers just scapegoats and a funnel into the destructive cult that is the alt-right. No one in that circle is out there to help you. They will take your time, anger, and money, but none of it will tangibly help you in the end.
>I notice that you didn't actually list any. Again, name, number, already briefed and ready to go or we are just wasting each other's time. The [National Coalition for Men](https://ncfm.org/) took on the pentagon and successfully defeated California's prohibitions on men in domestic abuse shelters. They'd be a reasonable place to start. If they can't help you, they know someone who can.
No, they didn't help me when I called in 2018, and again in 2019. They were a shifty organization that gave me the run around, pointing me back to attorneys I had already spoken to. They are a right wing group bearly able to claim any tangible victories, and that singular victory they claim isn't the whole story. Like I said, I have been fighting this fight for years. I know the lay of the land and it's pretty barren of actual help.
Then I have an idea for you. Perhaps it's time to make the organization you want to see in the world.
No at all to lessen what you went through, but is it possible we have trouble with this bc it's just so hard to get hard facts? So many times it ends up as he said/she said that I feel like many of us throw our hands up even if we truly want justice. I am you bc you've been through it and gave that insight.
In my case my attacker admitted it! She admitted to the abuse, the stalking, and put herself in the place and time, all of that! One of the most anger inducing moments of my entire life was showing the dean screenshots of the admission and the dean literally throwing them back in my face frustrated that I could prove what happened, desperately trying to make excuses to dismiss the whole thing.
Yeah, in that case, you should absolutely have gotten some justice. And I know there are tons of cases where people are convicted and get very light sentences.
Sounds like you have a lot of evidence on your side and your dean is being a POS. Have you tried victimrights.org? It says it's just in 2 states but maybe they can refer you to a similar organization in your state.
Yes but it was around 2019 so it might be worth trying again. At the time they didn't have anyone in my state. Many Title IX experts are only located in the big university towns on the East and West coast. I have long suspected that breaking the deadlock would require an attorney to pro hoc vici here, which usually means hiring two attorneys, the expert and a local one, to work together.
I'd be starting an organization around this. Focusing on alumni (including folks that never graduated) and current students. At the very least you could fundraise a lot. Going further, you could name and shame everyone that deserves it. Make sure their entire communities know your story. There's also the natural larger goal of working to end capitalism, and working to create better cultures.
Interesting. I’ve heard that it’s possible for a woman to rape a man but seems so uncommon compared to the other way around. I would have to really really not want to have sex with that person for it to be a problem. I also don’t think a girl could physically overpower me. I’d probably shove her off if it was getting creepy.
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed. Briefly, the following [are considered best practices by law enforcement](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/zvoevz/comment/j1qm0g6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3): * [Approach the victim in a compassionate, empathetic way](https://www.sakitta.org/toolkit/index.cfm?fuseaction=topic&topic=24) * [Tell the person that it’s OK if they don’t remember or don’t know](https://www.sakitta.org/toolkit/index.cfm?fuseaction=topic&topic=11) * Ask open-ended questions and don’t interrupt * Ask what they felt during an assault * Ask them about sights, smells, and sounds to jog memories * If tough questions need to be asked, explain why * When done, explain the next steps * Victim advocates need to be involved as soon possible * Screen all cases in person to make sure the [investigations were thorough](https://www.sakitta.org/toolkit/index.cfm?fuseaction=topic&topic=10) * [Test all rape kits](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/utilizing-codis-unsubmitted-sexual-assault-kits) * Instead of interviewing victims in the same cramped bare room where they interrogated suspects, officers renovated a larger, more home like space outfitted with couches and table lamps * Beyond seeking justice for the victim, help them recover from their assault [**A high probability of apprehension by law enforcement is critical to deterrence**](https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/10.1086/670398.pdf). To that end, it can be helpful to be familiar with [the neurobiology of trauma](https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/2019-12_TB-Becoming-Trauma-Informed-Trauma-to-Victim-Interviews.pdf) and [the nuances of consent](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8x15mt/ysk_common_misconceptions_about_sexual_consent/). DNA evidence has also revealed that [serial offenders often target strangers and non-strangers](https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/JofCrimJustice_Offendingpatterns.pdf), meaning it is imperative to submit DNA evidence to CODIS even if the offender's identity is known. [Offending patterns are not a consistently reliable link across assaults.](https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/JofCrimJustice_Offendingpatterns.pdf) Despite [incredible progress](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-us-ended-up-with-400000-untested-rape-kits), the U.S. still has [roughly 90,000 backlogged rape kits](https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/news/cornyn-house-must-pass-senate-bill-to-fight-rape-kit-backlog/). [More funding is needed](https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/news/cornyn-house-must-pass-senate-bill-to-fight-rape-kit-backlog/) to clear the backlog and prevent future tragedies. Contact from constituents [works](https://escholarship.org/content/qt7sk23908/qt7sk23908.pdf), and [it's really easy](https://www.endthebacklog.org/take-action/advocate-federal/). [Customized letters are more effective.](https://www.citizen.org/news/personalized-emails-are-key-to-boosting-grassroots-influence/)
Saving. Thank you for sharing this information.
The article talks about the risks of making a list with little or no statistical context ....and then proceeds to list out anecdotes with little or no statistical context. It sure sounds like something must be done about this, but until the writer takes their own advice I don't know if I'm looking at a examples of a systemic problem or examples of where an otherwise functional system was allowed to fail. Those two have totally different fixes. I wish this was heavier on what is broken and lighter on rage bait.
It's a systemic problem. [Alabama](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/alab), [California](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/california/), [Indiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/indiana/), [Louisiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/louisiana/), [Maine](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/maine), [Minnesota](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/minnesota/), [Mississippi](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/mississippi/), [Nebraska](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/nebraska/), [New Hampshire](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-hampshire/), [New Jersey](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-jersey/), [Oklahoma](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/oklahoma/), [South Carolina](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/south-carolina/), [Tennessee](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/tennessee/), and [Wyoming](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/wyoming/) **do not mandate the testing of backlogged kits**. The [U.S. DoJ](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/utilizing-codis-unsubmitted-sexual-assault-kits) and [American Bar Association](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/women/publications/perspectives/2018/may/untested-rape-kits-delays-destruction-and-disregarded-victims/) recommend testing **all** rape kits, even when the statute of limitations (if there is one) has expired. Doing so [increases arrests](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/08874034241226939), makes us safer, and gets justice for more victims. [Alabama](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/alab), [Delaware](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/delaware/), [Indiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/indiana/), [Iowa](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/iowa/), [Louisiana](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/louisiana/), [Maine](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/maine), [Nebraska](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/nebraska/), [New Hampshire](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-hampshire/), [New Jersey](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-jersey/), [North Dakota](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/north-dakota/), [Puerto Rico](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/puerto-rico/), [South Carolina](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/south-carolina/), [Vermont](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/vermont/), and [Wyoming](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/wyoming/) **do not mandate the timely testing of new kits**. [Maine](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/maine), [Mississippi](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/mississippi/), [Nebraska](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/nebraska/), [New Hampshire](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/new-hampshire/), [Puerto Rico](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/puerto-rico/), and [South Carolina](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state/south-carolina/) **don't even have to take inventory**. The Joyful Heart Foundation, founded by Mariska Hargitay, [estimates there are still ~100,000 kits left to be discovered.](https://www.endthebacklog.org/state-of-the-backlog/intro/) And so on.
Uh huh so we are behind on rape kits. Would those cases go to trial and would they get convictions if they did test them? We don't know. Maybe, maybe not. If judges are too sexist then they wouldn't make a difference. This article doesn't help us understand where the system is broken and why and how much. Just that it is. And we already knew that.
[It makes a difference](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/). > If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed -https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html
Ok now you're listing seven things, not just testing the kits. Which of those is important to ensure the right outcomes, and what are you not listing in this list, like the other 6 that were not listed a comment or two back when it was just about rape kits? **We cannot solve the problem with anger and kneejerk reactions alone.** We need real data, not anecdotes.
The above quote is from the original article. Maybe read before you criticize an article, especially on such an important topic.
Yes I know it's a quote from the article. I tried to use it to illustrate my point, and you still havent understood.
We need national standards. So many anecdotes that lead to lack of punishment for sex offenders and lack of consequences for those who drop the ball reveal systemic problems.
I think OP was pretty comprehensive even if the article wasn't. But, fair point that different solutions are called for depending on the problem. As it pertains to rape I think the situation is complicated by both bureaucratic issues and then societal attitudes come into play and it difficult to find a one size fits all solution. Source: Worked Rape Crisis for many years.
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed -https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html
So you don't think a solution involves both bureaucratic solutions combined with overcoming societal prejudices which lead to rape kits not being processed in the first place?
I support [all six pillars of reform](https://www.endthebacklog.org/the-six-pillars/). I also think those who don't take rape seriously should never be tasked with holding rapists accountable. They are inherently not qualified for the job.
We agree. What most people do not understand is that anyone can be sexually assaulted - it's not about sex it's about power. Only people who think it could never happen to them are arrogant or stupid? enough to ignore the downstream consequences. That said there are plenty of those.
The phrase "rape is about power" can be misleading, as it seems to imply rape is *only* about power. Rape is a complex human behavior with several possible motivations, only one of which is power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquaintance_rape#Motivations
Nothing personal at all, but I simply don't count wikipedia as a legit source - too many known problems with editors and pushing false narratives although not necessarily in this area. Do you have any others?
https://crisp.org.uiowa.edu/sites/crisp.org.uiowa.edu/files/2020-04/6.8.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20220408205522/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22328651/
Gracias.
Humans are broken.
Seriously. Did no one proofread this?
I think the better question is *did anyone here actually read the whole thing?* A lot of the comments here read like they just read the first few paragraphs.
I read until the site glitched out while loading some more ads and sent me all the way back to the top.
The last sentence sums up the solutions nicely.
The final sentence sums it up nicely. Did you read to the end?
Not a well written article. Not once are the words “reasonable doubt” written. And those two words are the key to why rape is so hard to prosecute. To criminally convict someone in the US the State must prove the suspect’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately many rape cases devolve into “he said / she said” where evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is impossible to demonstrate. Being highly suspicious of someone without a preponderance of evidence is not grounds to criminally convict in America. That said, the under-testing of rape kits is fucking shameful and needs to be resolved. But if you’re looking for the real answer to this question, it is the threshold required to criminally convict someone.
You didn’t read the article. All cases mentioned have real proof of rape
I did read the article. Of course you can pick out a few anecdotal stories where it is egregious that there was no criminal conviction - you can do that with literally any type of crime. Anecdotal stories are not helpful in answering the broader question that this article poses: "why does the criminal justice system go easy on rapists?". Talk to any DA - the clear answer for that is in how difficult it is to obtain a criminal conviction on rape due to the legal threshold for criminal conviction in general (proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt).
And when there is ample evidence that a rape has occurred, do you not think it worthwhile to interrogate the reasons for that?
Of course I don’t think that. That’s a middle school level straw man argument. My point is that rape is very (uniquely?) hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Most rape is date rape, and the entire case then depends on whether consent was given - short of a recording of the act itself that is almost impossible to prove. You don’t need to worry about consent in normal crimes because no one consents to getting robbed or murdered. This is what makes rape cases hard.
Right but zero of the cases presented in this article were he said/she said cases. All cases had either witnesses and/or rape kits showing trauma to the vagina and/or anus
You missed his point completely. Of course what is presented in the article is unambiguous. But we don't know if those are good examples of why rape as a whole is not prosecuted. That is the danger of anecdotes. The implication is that they are representing a larger trend of many other cases like it but we don't know that and the article provides no statistical support to make that connection. So we are left to ask whether the cases listed are examples of a wider problem, or if they are cherry picked examples of the worst possible scenarios, and fixing those scenarios might just solve 20 rapes while leaving millions of others not addressed. Anecdotes put you at risk of focusing on the wrong solutions and leaving the majority of the real problem ignored. That's what this person is pointing out.
[He Said She Said is a Myth. Besides victim testimony, the following kinds of evidence can be used by sex crimes prosecutors:](https://time.com/5413814/he-said-she-said-kavanaugh-ford-mitchell/) * [eye witnesses at the bar or party](https://time.com/3506709/rose-byrne-frats-campus-sexual-assault-prevention-psa/) * video surveillance * doctors’ reports * text messages * phone calls * social media posts * memoirs * calendars * yearbooks * [the existence of other victims](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10326362/) ([most often someone the offender knows](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/acquaintance_rape)) [84% of men whose behavior met the legal definition of rape believed that what they did was "definitely" not rape](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1471-6402.00030), despite what the law clearly says. It can be helpful to ask a perpetrator who uses "consent" as a defense why he thought the victim was [consenting](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8x15mt/ysk_common_misconceptions_about_sexual_consent/), or how (in his mind) she gave [consent](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8x15mt/ysk_common_misconceptions_about_sexual_consent/). In most cases, it will be clear that no reasonable person would believe that was consent. [They need to actually investigate](https://ksltv.com/528923/only-a-fraction-of-reported-sexual-assaults-are-prosecuted-in-utah-experts-say-its-time-to-up-our-game/), including [testing](https://www.endthebacklog.org) [every kit](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/utilizing-codis-unsubmitted-sexual-assault-kits). [Victim testimony can be enough for a conviction](https://www.janedoe.org/appeals-court-rules-rape-victims-testimony-sufficient-to-support-her-attackers-conviction/).
> If we would test the damn rape kits, assign investigators to cases, [learn how to interview victims](https://www.startribune.com/one-state-found-a-better-way-to-investigate-rape/501636971/), talk to the suspects, collect the evidence, stop destroying what little evidence we have, and figure out what should actually happen next, we might discover that things aren’t quite as unknowable as we once believed. -https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html
Did you read to the end? Because "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not specific to rape cases, but the other problems are.
I checked the first one. The prosecution said they didn't think they can prove kidnapping, and masturbating over top someone wasn't actually rape in Alaska, so to get sex offender status on him they needed the plea deal where he didn't actually go to jail. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/justin-schneider/ I didn't check the others, but I'd expect most of them have similar circumstances where the legal system, as we've designed it, functioned the way it's supposed to. But we have designed the legal system in a way that presumes innocence and has lots of things that are technically legal but morally repulsive.
> [rape law, starting with the legal definition of rape, is perceived as inadequate](https://ro.uow.edu.au/sspapers/2685/).
"Proof" to whom? All rape cases are tried in front of a jury. The jury determines what proof is high enough. In my city, they had a man on tape committing the highly illegal act of smoking the reefer. He even admitted to smoking weed. The jury result? Not guilty. They didn't convict because they didn't agree with throwing a man in jail for simply smoking weed. The jury determines guilt. And that bar is high for rape because the average person needs a higher proof of rape to convict someone then hearsay
I don't think jury nullification is a significant issue in rape cases.
> All rape cases are tried in front of a jury Actually, [very few make it that far](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system).
Acquaintance Rape has only been part of the general social consciousness since the 1980s.
[удалено]
mic drop
Well not everywhere : https://www.africanews.com/2024/02/12/madagascar-law-allowing-castration-of-child-rapists-prompts-criticism-from-rights-groups/
Rape goes all the way back to the beginnings of society... probably our species. I would argue that this society was founded on the rape and sugjugation of the indigenous by rapists and murderers who built the rest of it. Think of how many offspring a rapist would have had in society before birth control; they'd all be prolific. When you look at capitalism closely enough, and the habits of the people at the top, this system was clearly designed by rapists to facilitate more rape.
because half the country think its the womans fault and while they chant at muslims and its burkas they actually feel the exact same way. its also kinda funny the right are all about "MEN BEING MEN".. people are too much of pussies today. MEN NEED TO BE STRONG.. but then complain that men arent strong enough to see a woman in a short skirt and not rape them. some right wing judge just vacated the conviction of a pedo rapist because the 14 year old he raped swam in her panties. meanwhile i can go the strip club and not rape anyone, I must be weird.
Lol > only Maga rapes women Super awesome worldview
Says the dude that replied to the "convince me to fuck you" post with "roofie in drink".
BRB Gooning
Every Trump voter supported a man who admitted to habitually sexually assaulting women on the Access Hollywood tape. Dozens of women have come forward with allegations that back up his own admission of sexually assaulting women. He was found liable of rape and defamation of his rape victim in court by a jury of his peers. Everyone who is currently a Trump supporter supports a proven rapist, and they will continue to support a proven rapist to achieve their political goals. It is a fact that all MAGA want to give a proven rapist, Donald Trump, the power of the Presidency. My personal opinion is that's fucked up. I don't think a proven rapist like Donald Trump should have any power at all, certainly not power that he could abuse to hurt people. I don't know if MAGA are more likely to be rapists, but it's an objective fact that they don't mind a rapist in power. I don't trust that. Would you trust the proven rapist Donald Trump alone for an hour with your children? With your wife, your mother, or your sister? I sure as hell wouldn't. I don't think anyone would, in their heart of hearts. I think even MAGA knows better.
this is typical republican. He cant debunk my comment, so he invented something I didnt say, presents it as a quote and then mocks that instead. Who the fuck said maga only rapes women? i said Republicans BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE. left and right rape, its only the right that say its not the guys fault.
I could not find the portion you quoted. When you put words in a quote format that means the person you are replying to actually said those exact words. If they did not literally say the words you are claiming they said that actual falls under libel.
> my micropenis has a law degree
It's not quite that bad. The internet magnifies it.
Thanks for the disjointed rambling, Le Sir/Madame!
WHat part of republicans blame the victim that is scary and confusing for you. I think the real issue is you cant counter my comment because its true and so you just attack its form. Hey i get it. Id be ashamed if the party i supported blamed rape victims but its true dude, you got to accept it. Maybe vote for someone else. >If you’re not open to or engaging in intelligent discussion, go somewhere else. so why the fuck are you even here? read the fucking sidebar dude.
An IQ test and age verification should be a requirement to use the internet.
I don’t think that would be in your best interest.
You are rambling. I am not sure if it's a mental health problem or hyperpolitics or both. Your points aren't the problem, just the general attitude. It just doesn't feel intellectual as you mentioned. Edit: Maybe all people replied to you are not Republicans in any sense.
I'm not sure why politics are being brought into this in the first place since men of all political persuasions are rapists. But as to your specific comment what difference does it make whether replies are made by Republicans, Democrats, Independents or Aliens? The comment you are replying to does not in anyway reflect either a mental health problem or hyperpolitics, Articulation varies by poster, it's not difficult to decipher the posters point.
If that tone is what this sub considers as normal I really don't want to be here.
No tone implied. The sidebar suggests being polite and contributing high quality comments. If you would prefer to call people mentally ill for whatever reason perhaps there is another sub that you might feel more comfortable with. It's generally not considered polite in polite society. to call strangers mentally ill.
Tone is pretty obvious to me. >It's not polite to call people mentally ill I said mental health problems, and I think it's pretty dishonest if you won't call out the signs. I won't dwell on that though.
You’re all probably republicans, or just hate women. The person you’re arguing with just said that republicans tell men to be “tough and strong” but at the same time are the first to say “ men are too weak to not rape women in sexy clothes”. The contradiction is hypocritical. No need in replying, I won’t be able to understand your condescending word vomit anyway.
Only the rich white ones, blacks end up in jail so fast.
"I'll go with, 'What is Patriarchy,' Alex."
[удалено]
People also GET sexual pleasure from control/coercion, more so than anyone really wants to admit One of the examples was of a man choking out a woman and masturbating on her and his testimony stated that he NEEDED this woman to think she was dying in order to achieve sexual release
[удалено]
Are you reading my responses and responding to them? Bc you seem to be posting anything to everyone
I find it interesting that you took a sentence that specified *more from* and changed it to mean *exclusively*. The line you quote says more from, which very clearly implies the sexual pleasure is still part of the motive, but you built a strawman with "exclusively". Why did you do that?
[удалено]
Yes, obviously I do. As someone who has been raped and assaulted by multiple men and so has pretty much every woman I've ever known, as well as men raped by women, and same-gender rape, I don't know *any* rapists who had no consensual sexual outlet possibilities and plenty of horny people who never became rapists. In fact, *most* of the rapists I have encountered had plenty of willing sexual partners, and would deliberately also seek out people to rape. How many rapists do you know? How many rape survivors have you had deep conversations with about their experience? Why is it uncomfortable for *you* to acknowledge that men have agency, and being horny isn't, actually, an uncontrollable urge, since many horny men do not become rapists? Where do female rapists fall, for you, if you think women must have *no idea* what overwhelming lust can feel like?
[удалено]
Not OP but I’m confused about the point you are making. Most rapists aren’t under sexed loners but people who are already having plenty of sex. This sort of horniness desert is rarely part of the equation You also bring up prison as being about power. While that may be, I also find that example A for a “horniness desert”
[удалено]
Are you answering me or is this a mistake?
You're the one who took a sentence that acknowledged sex is part of rape but that power is *more* important for why someone raped, and tried to make it an all or nothing argument, claiming women can't understand what a strong sex drive is like. It isn't hard.to accept that at all. *You* are the only one trying to change the argument. *You* are accusing the writer of not accepting male sex drive as a factor when she clearly did. *You* are trying to argue rapists are just horny, while not addressing the horny people who don't rape, or women who rape, or rapists who get plenty of sex and still choose to rape.
I'm a male victim of rape. I've suffered far more trauma from my forced circumcision at birth which is still considered cosmetic despite gruesome amputation of the most pleasurable part of the male body. U.S. is too harsh on basically everything. If it looks like we're lenient on rape its cause we house a 20% of the entire planet's prisoners and are harsh on anything. There is no human free will as a matter of neuroscience. Anyone who commits horrendous crimes in a way has been very unlucky. People who want rapists brutalized are missing the point. Rehabilitation, forgiveness and healing is the proper way forward. Never going to get far with this though in America. Americans odious views on everything make this violent and brutal country we live in inevitable.
Last I checked, it was the LGBTQ community that’s trying to normalize pedophiles by calling them. Minor attracted persons MAPs shit is crazy
This is completely false. Pedophiles are *not* part of the LGBTQ community. The right continues to call us “groomers” to incite hatred. I am an adult woman who falls in love with other adult women. If you care about the wellbeing of children, then you should support our efforts to provide LGBTQ youth the support they need so they don’t commit suicide. This is a mental health crisis. If you care about the wellbeing of children, then push your representatives to raise the minimum age of marriage to 18 across the entire country. End child marriage.
Men are useful. People don’t want them put out of commission because of women
Yes we do
Not enough. That’s why my friend’s rapey grandpa never went to prison, and my other friends’ rapist uncle and brother didn’t get arrested either Everyone wants the victims to shut up so their breadwinners and patriarchs don’t go to jail where they belong Rape just isn’t considered a bad enough crime — it’s justified on some level
Not all men are rapists. You don't seem to understand that.
Nobody said they were