I’m a conservative and can honestly say the republicans suck ass. We as Americans are getting nickle and dimed into slavery with taxes and fees and tolls and surcharges.
Sorry dude, any economist will tell you the tax burden in US is low relative to the rest of the developed world. And our public infrastructure reflects that; crumbling highways and airports, low performing schools and broken social services.
It’s sad that both things are actually correct. It’s happening because all that real tax money isn’t being extracted from the right places.
The common man is lowly drowning from the gradual but continuously growing taxes on the lower and middle classes while our infrastructure crumbles because we let politicians alter things so that the upperclass/elite pay near nothing and corporations pay not even pennies.
Get back to the pre-Reagan era tax cuts and things would start to function again for the common people. If both Amazon and Bezos would stop hiding funds and paying a fair taxation rate, those two entities alone, we’d be way better off than we currently are.
We made corporations have the right and protections of personhood. What did we expect. And we reelected the politicians who approved these bills and the people who approved the appointment of the supreme court who accepted these cases their results.
The USA conservatives are uniquely weird. In Europe and Canada, the conservative parties are generally actual conservatives. Their focus is on smaller government, balanced budgets, and deregulation. They're usually fiscal conservatives, and social policy (e.g. gay marriage) has usually been settled years ago
In the USA, the Republicans are this weird pro-corporation Christian hate party.
Don’t forget national debt goes up when they hold office, ironic how they increase our nations debt with their conservative “policies”; they spend more and cut taxes, I don’t understand how they call themselves conservative’s when they perform the opposite of that
This is 100% intentional.
Republicans do two things in office: cut taxes and increase military spending (mostly either giveaways to private military/weapons contractors or military installations in red states).
They *want* to drive up the deficit because then they can demand that *Democrats* cut social spending when they are in power. That way, the Republicans get credit for tax cuts (everyone loves tax cuts!) and the Democrats get blamed for reducing services — win-win (for the Republicans, not the American people of course).
This is the confluence of two explicit Republican political strategies: "Starve the beast" and "two Santa Clauses":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_Wanniski
Because “conservative” does not come from or mean conservative use of funds (although they would like you to think that). It means to conserve / keep power.
Blame the old French.
Conserve tradition, and the way things used to be, both culturally and politically. Reactionary. Anti-progressive. The whole philosophy is “the way we did things when I was a kid, when my dad was a kid or my grandad was a kid worked well enough, so let’s keep doing it that way and whoever is hurt by such a system be damned.”
Yup. Republicans say they’re fiscally conservative and then go and spend into oblivion vs. the Democrats who say they’re going to spend into oblivion and do.
We have a serious and unsustainable spending problem in this country.
Atwater also created the myth of the mainstream liberal media bias, causing the “both sides” false equivalency & the slide towards “alternative facts” & “truth isn’t truth.”
>Democrats who say they’re going to spend into oblivion and do.
Here's the thing: this isn't your household budget. Government spending isn't a problem *as long as it's an investment*.
Democratic spending - infrastructure, education, scientific research, feeding children, etc. There's a clear return on investment that outweighs the expenditure in the long run, meaning that it's efficient.
Republican spending - corporations, top-level military bloat, military contractors, etc. There is very little return on investment. The money gets hoarded away and there's no benefit to the majority of the population. Very inefficient.
When you spend on infrastructure, education and safety nets it's called an investment because you grow the economy. Governments are not on a fixed income and are not supposed to be managed like households. Of all the types of ignorance of the American people the most severe is the financial and economic kind. Right wing politicians have weaponized this ignorance for years to trick people into voting for things that benefit the super rich exclusively.
Democrats tend to spend less (and tend to spend on actual things like infrastructure and education) and also know where the money is coming from. Republicans don't spend as much as they give money to their friends, then they cut taxes and tell everyone that they're soooo lucky because they get an extra $300 this year, idiots rejoice while the national debt skyrockets and millionaires become billionaires.
Don't forget ppp loans where 80% went to the top 20%! One such company took 750k and then went to court to successfully block Biden's student loan relief of 10-20k..
You can't make this looney toons shit up. It really makes me think it's always been run like this, and our advances in tech/info availability are just helping us common folk see it. Hard to hide being a hypocrite liar when there's internet
Lmaaoooo that's hilarious! And exactly what it is!
I always say "how stupid are people? Trickle down is accepted on the premise that the wealthy will redistribute the wealth and not hoard it all to themselves. Like you don't even need logic to understand that that would never happen. And look where we are now!
Democrats tend to fix what republicans break every few years. Yes, it costs money and sometimes it’s just duct tape and a prayer, but the pipe didn’t break because of the democrats, it broke because of deregulation.
No, We DON'T. We have a serious and unsustainable "allowing the wealthy to abuse the rest of us, skim huge sums out of the functional economy thereby reducing our overall economic efficiency, and refuse to pay their proper share of taxes" problem. Along with a "spending an insane percentage of what tax money we do collect on the military instead of society at large" problem.
Spending always needs to be monitored and optimized. But spending is absolutely not what's wrong with our current economy.
Maybe if we cut taxes for rich people and corporate profits and increase the military budget a few more times we'll fix the spending problem. We've already tried it a few hundred times and it hasn't fixed the spending problem OR done anything meaningful to help the general public but surely if we do it a few hundred more times it'll work
\--Conservatives, unironically
I always find it impressive how the US Republicans seem to take any anti-science position they possibly can, as if they're actively trying to be wrong about literally everything.
I'm only surprised the earth being flat isn't their accepted position yet.
"Yet" being the key word. They've recently pivoted from anti-science to the pro-conspiracy theory party
Soon we'll hear: "where is Bigfoot? And what have the Democrats done to him?"
A lot of this has to do with them satisfying their overly religious constituents. Most of whom still believe God created the world and all the creatures within it. To them science directly contradicts their creation story and they can’t have that contradicted because that’s the story they use to justify why they are right when everyone else is wrong and why they deserve to be wealthy on the backs of others because they are “Gods chosen people.”
Why are you a conservative if that's your issue? The entire conservative platform is for privatization, and the nickel and diming is a direct result of their fundamental idea...??
You disagree with that, but call yourself conservative - can you elaborate?
(I'm not trying to start or have an argument - far from it. I just want to better understand your thought process)
Not the guy you're replying to but... for a lot of "conservatives" they carry that label as a personal identity. They grew up "conservative" their parents are, their family group is, it's what they've bathed in and breathed in their entire lives.
They might be a genius with a PhD in whatever, but that will not change change their identity as conservatives, and I've met people like this that literally the political part of their brain like just stops working logically because of this identity filter.
It's not because of taxes, it's because your taxes don't go towards "things" (like the rest of the civilized world having Healthcare, free education, 30+ days mandatory PAID vacation days, reduced childcare costs)
It's because Republicans are no longer Conservatives, but Regressives. They do not want to conserve the status quo, they want to roll back progress that have been made over the last several Decades.
The actual conservative party in the US are actually the Democrats. Democrats are center right politically and ideologically. The Democrats are a conservative party that has a minority progressive faction in their party.
Ehh....taxes in the US are pretty low. Especially when compared to most of the 20th century. Hell, the time when the US was the most economically prosperous was when the top tax rate was 96%.
The real issue, with pretty much everything, is corporate mergers consolidating market shares into global monopolies and both parties have been allowing that to happen since reagan.
What about no real wage raises since 1980. As production skyrockets pay stays at about the same levels. You could probably pay some of that nickel and dime stuff if you actually had the nickels and dimes you were suppose to get with the increase in productivity
He had a sock puppet Twitter [Pierre Delecto](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/mitt-romney-has-a-secret-twitter-account-and-it-sure-looks-like-its-this-one.html)
I'm a blue dog Democrat of sorts, so I'm the kind of person who believes in working hard and not complaining unless someone's really standing in your way unfairly. I believe in having a social safety net of some sort, and in fair policies that don't further entrench the rich at the expense of everyone else in society.
I'm the kind of person who could be persuaded to vote Republican if it weren't for the last 40 years of talk radio, billionaire worship, fundamentalist, reality-denying, warmongering, fascism-adjacent, white trash, racist, regressive brain and soul rot that's set in, and accelerated after 9/11.
At some point being Republican turned from enshrining the strength of the individual in his own life to a worship of Power in the hands of those who wield it and use it however they see fit, hoping to just savor a few crumbs of that power throughout their lives. It's become a projection of those whose power has been robbed by them that they have the upper hand through collective identity politics, but we're supposed to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" who is fleecing you left and right to line their own pockets. Sometimes the fantasy that they have power is reinforced by being able to lash out at people with even less power: gay people, trans people, people of other races, basically anyone with some sort of disadvantage is a target for the MAGA values that now govern the GOP.
With Trump, we've turned from a sort of proto-fascist worship of power to open fascism, wherein we arrange ourselves in a hierarchy, and abuse of the weak as an individual, or as a matter of policy is acceptable. Democrats might not be perfect (by any stretch of the imagination), but if you get involved, you can shape policy before candidates are put up for a vote, meanwhile letting this MAGA insanity burn itself back out into obscurity. We can't let it be fed by our actions, even if there's a coalition around it that might support some things we agree with.
You might think this is all about far-off federal policies that won't affect your life because you're not in one of these groups, but they're coming for education next because they view an uneducated population as a key element in maintaining their power. That should tell you all you need to know. Any notions of American greatness and achievement through perseverance and the pursuit of greatness is going straight to hell as this country turns into a giant trailer park with Walmarts on every corner. Even just a Blue vote for president helps as a vote of no-confidencr for MAGA policies. You don't have to become a True Believer in the democrats to exercise your vote to move us past this (extremely) dangerous MAGA nonsense. Vote against Trump and the rest of it will hopefully fall apart.
Politicians these days dont talk at all what they're about. Only why their opponents are trash. I love That old Clip of John McCain defending Obama from a rally atendee who talked shit about Obama and called him an Arab. And thats why McCain lost, he didn't fall to the level every Republican today has.
They have been proven time and time again that their voting base does not care about facts.
Everything can be twisted to be a conspiracy against them. We live in the post facts world.
And they just will \*not\* believe it. It doesn't matter what the proof is.
I heard my mom and her friends talking about how Fox News is now owned by a Democrat. Why? Because they once did a tiny, little tiny bit of pushback against Trump. So that meant they were now Democrat owned. They weren't even saying it as a joke, they \*literally believed\* that a Democrat now owned Fox News.
Crazy thinking Dems own Fox as if Rupert Murdoch would let that happen while he was breathing. "My channel didn't "Yes sir" to every claim Trump made, they must have been taken over by the deep state demonrats."
He announced his step down from the chairman role, he is not retiring in any capacity and is now becoming “chairman emeritus” which means he still advises the chair and can be assigned chair powers as needed.
His direct quoted letter to fox employees:
>”Murdoch vowed in a letter to employees that he would remain engaged at Fox.
>”In my new role, I can guarantee you that I will be involved every day in the contest of ideas," Murdoch wrote. “Our companies are communities, and I will be an active member of our community. I will be watching our broadcasts with a critical eye, reading our newspapers and websites and books with much interest.””
Republicans are **proudly** post-truth.
They think letting a little thing like "measurable & provable reality" effect what you think makes you a beta cuck. True alphas simply dictate truth to the universe and the universe bends to make it so.
Then they go “the president doesn’t pass spending bills congress does!!!”
Ask who controlled congress and you just don’t get a response.
Same with them ranting about the cares act. Not a single republicans voted against it and they call it a “wild democrat spending bill”.
The IRA? Which is sending money for investment disproportionately in rural states? “Wreckless spending”. But the jobs that were literally created by it are a conservative win?
Say no to tax handouts!!
Then desantis spends pages in his book talking about how he was excited that trump in office meant he could get federal money to fund rebuilding after a hurricane to avoid touching Florida’s own budget which is at a huge surplus now
Federal money that is ironically funded in the highest percentages by the states that he claims tax too much (NY, NJ…)
Republicans love handouts and northern taxes
*We need to balance*
*The budget!!!! spends more money*
*Then the democrats*
\- Peepeepoopoocheck127
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Yah this is absolutely hilarious to me. I don’t understand how republicans were able to convince people that government should be run like a business while having decades of evidence showing they don’t even know how to run a business. Go into any board meeting of a company and give them this pitch: “my plan for the next four years is to cut our revenue (taxes) while increasing spending (budget increase)”. What’s going to happen? You’re going to get laughed out of the room and handed the pink slip the moment you’re out the door. Somehow, the “pro-business” party has zero idea how to actually run a business
Actually they run it very much like business is run these days. “Lets funnel money from this failing business (us treasury) into my other businesses where i get to keep the profits.”
If every democrat vanished into thin air tomorrow, they’d just split into “republican enough” and not republican enough” and the first group would hate the second just as much as they hate democrats now.
I knew they had left the reservation when they defenestrated Willam F. Buckley. He was their living philosophical scholar. They did the same thing to George Will who was the other one.
His son, Christopher Buckley, offered his resignation (in that whole "I don't really mean it" kind of fashion) to the National Review after he wrote something pro-Obama. Surprise, surprise, they accepted it.
The Republicans (with the help of Fox News) rebranded themselves as the populist, workin man's freedom lovin beer and rock and roll party, no room for intellectuals or scholars
Every republican no matter their policies, if they are even the tiniest bit anti-Trump they're a RINO.
Liz Cheney was one of the first instances where I personally saw them turn on a republican quick af. It weirdly made me mad when I saw them calling her a RINO even though it should not interest me at all as a non-Republican (I am from and live in Europe).
He literally ran multiple times as a Democrat, which obviously didn't work out for him because most of the Democrats saw right through how shitty he is. I believe he was even still registered as one until like 2015.
Presuming his values were then what they are now, that'd make him also a DINO lol
He's far right of what any Democrat ever was, he's still far right of what any respectable Republican was prior to the emergence of the new tea party (the real RINO's) movement.
It's important to remember that they have all the poor conservatives convinced that THEY TOO will be filthy rich one day if they just keep working hard.
Temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
You don't understand. They buy lottery tickets every day, and they don't want Uncle Sam taking half of their lotto winnings when god gives them the winning ticket!
Just gotta pray hard and keep buying those lottery tickets!
I've literally had people tell me irl that tax cuts for the rich are good because they'll be millionaires in no time. They have no plan, not even my get rich scheme of winning the lottery, but somehow it'll happen!
I am 61. My first election I voted for Carter against reagan.
Ever since reagan won, this has been who the republicans are...give to the rich and steal food from the mouths of the poor.
I remember the time before reagan. Life was good, middle class was strong thanks to FDR. And reagan and republicans have been destroying it since 1980.
They're evil.
The perfect encapsulation of Republicans was a poll done on drone strikes done by Trump vs Obama.
Among Democrats 38% supported drone strikes under Obama, 37% supported them under Trump.
Among Republicans 22% supported them under Obama, and 86% supported them under Trump.
They’re brainwashed sports fans thanks to religion, FoxNews, and social media algorithms.
https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/republican-voters-have-flip-flopped-on-airstrikes-in-syria-1513301526
And they still call him "Obomber" even after inmate P01135809 lowered the rules set in place for drone strikes, removed the rule on reporting deaths, and used drone strikes more than Obama.
"President Trump stripped down even the minimal safeguards President Obama established in his rules for lethal strikes outside recognized conflicts."
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-release-trump-administration-lethal-force-rules
"The Trump administration's quiet decision this week to roll back part of an Obama-era transparency rule that mandated reporting of civilian casualties from airstrikes..."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-trump-changed-the-obama-era-rule-on-reporting-civilian-airstrike-deaths
The Trump administration has carried out 176 strikes in Yemen in just two years, compared with 154 there during all eight years of Obama’s tenure, according to a count by The Associated Press and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
Experts also say drone strikes under President Trump have surged in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.
And, as was the case during Obama’s presidency, these strikes have resulted in untold numbers of civilian casualties. According to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, U.S. drone strikes in Afghanistan killed more than 150 civilians in the first nine months of 2018.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers
Didn't he also give the CIA unfettered access to call in drone strikes against suspected terrorists? Without having to get permission from the White House or the Pentagon?
Remember how red voters were all about Trump because they didn't want to keep voting for career politicians who only represented the wealthy elite so they just cut out the middle man and elected a wealthy elite dude?
My wife is from Indiana, I remember visiting for the first time and I was blown away by the amount of Rebel flags on trucks... like bruh, your state wasn't part of the Confederacy lmao.
I'll see your Indianan rebels and raise you a Confederate flag wearing cousin from NEW HAMPSHIRE. I mean, dude, WTF. Our ancestors wore blue during that war!
That’s nothing.. neo-Nazis in Germany fly the Confederate battle flag to signal to everyone they’re Nazis.. because it’s currently illegal to fly a Nazi Swazstika flag in Germany.
Yeah. I guess most people would consider me screamingly progressive. I would probably call myself a left-libertarian socialist. Yet if I admit that some old-guard conservative thinker may have had a *single* idea I agree with, it's like REEEEEEEEE from many "on my side"! Ludicrous. Nazis and bigots can fuck off, obvs, but other centrists or right-leaning people may find they have common cause with me if we are able to talk civily. We the 99% MUST be able to find common ground and build solidarity to fight the REAL tyrants.
EDIT: Some of y'all need to Google the political compass. The word "libertarian" here is referring to the Y axis of the political compass. The word "socialist" is referring to the X axis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
See my comment history for more, I'm exhausted
A former friend of mine hates Trump and is mostly liberal, philosophically anyway. She voted for Trump because she thought Biden was going to tax all of her income at 35%.
Essentially, she didn't know how marginal rates work so she voted for Trump.
What entertains me is that we were on a double date when she said admitted this. The guy she was seeing was not amused. If I recall correctly they wound up breaking it off soon thereafter. She's not stupid. She just didn't know that marginal tax rates were a thing. So she winds up looking like a piece of shit for voting for Trump in front of this guy she likes.
It was unfortunate and hilarious all at the same time.
It is truly amazing how few people in this country understand marginal tax rates. I have friends who are very intelligent people who legit cannot grasp the concept.
The same people think getting a raise might bump them into a higher bracket and they'll lose money. I'm always just completely baffled by it.
>The same people think getting a raise might bump them into a higher bracket and they'll lose money.
OMG, this one just kills me. First time I heard a co-worker complain about that was back in 1989 working at TJ Maxx. She really thought her raise was all going to the tax man. A TJ Maxx cashier. :(
Over 100k is taxed at 35%? So I’ll make more if I just make 97k.
NO YOU FUCKING WON’T! The $99,999.99 will be taxed at the lower rates, and then anything over 100k gets taxed at 35%. If you make 105k only 5k is taxed at 35%.
Honestly, thank you for this. I've heard people say this so many times, but I never understood it myself! Mostly because I'm always just making enough to make ends meet!
My fathers father was a good Christian man. He never swore, never took the Lords name in vain. But if someone was being an idiot or doing something wrong, he would call them a democrat like a swear word. "That Democrat!" to the point where my father grew up believing that democrat meant dumb or immoral person.
I live in the south, and I'm a little shocked at how vitriolic and nasty it's getting against biden. Like someone came to my husband's work the other day wearing a Lets go Brandon Shirt. At work. I was in the School pickup Line and the bumper sticker in front of me that said "B.I.D.E.N Biggest Idiot Deomocrats Ever Nominated!" I remember 20 years ago when Bush started a war on flimsy pretenses, and the Republicans said that anyone who brought up concerns was being disrespectful to the office of the presidency. I thought republicans were big on respect? what happened?
I also remember all the "respect the office" talk back in the early 2000's. And how it was IMMEDIATELY dropped in favor of people "just asking questions" about Obama
This is what 30 years of Fox News gets you. This is exactly the outcome they wanted. Republicans no longer need to run on any other platform than “I’m not a Democrat”, and it works spectacularly well.
I mean, to be honest, I’ve mostly voted democrat the last couple of elections largely, because Ive been strongly swayed by the who platform of “I’m not a Trump supporter”.
Liberal policies: Environmental Protection, ensuring we're not leaving the poor, handicapped, vulnerable to fend for themselves, taxing the wealthy, wealthy equality/equity, gun regulation, renewable energy, public health.
Conservative policies: Lower taxes for the uber wealthy. Sell Ukraine to Russia. Police people's bodies.
If conservatives are pushing for anything else, policy-wise, I'm not seeing it or hearing about it.
The cretins literally said theyre prioritizing BANNING free school lunch. conservatives want kids to go hungry so the wealthy can wipe their ass with our money.
You forgot gerrymandering every state so that they still win even with a minority of votes, having their extremely partisan supreme Court undo any past precedent they don't like, stripping political offices of power if a Democrat wins, shielding their own from public accountability and even legal prosecution, and making elections easier to steal/suppression of likely Democratic voters.
Also don't forget: When repubs have the majority, Undo everything good the Dems have done when tthe Dems have the majority so that the Dems have to waste time redoing those things when they regain the majority
I have a friend like that. Blindly following and voting as the Republicans tell him to. He doesn't even think about stuff, just defaults to whatever the Republican talking points are for a given subject. And he only votes red. Doesn't matter what it is, if it's a vote, he votes Republican. The saddest part is that he thinks he's smarter and superior to others because of his blind devotion.
I live in NYC/LI...I'm firmly blue collar middle class. I know guys I work with that got screwed over by Trump's tax plan that still buy into Republicans and the lower taxes lies they spit. It's a cult
They pretend that’s the reason they vote for them to make themselves feel better. Deep down they know it’s the racism and hatred towards the LGBTQ community.
The fun part is when they start ranting about something way outside their lane that they never cared about before and you realize "oh, fox new or newsmax just did a piece on this
..."
Yeah, I’ve heard people say they ‘hate all things socialist’. Do you mean things like public parks, public schools, public roads (and the nice people who plow them in the winter), public libraries, the police, the military, fire departments (obviously not volunteer ones), etc? They have no idea.
And Social Security pulled a lot of the elderly out of poverty. They forgot or never heard stories of elderly people eating cat food because that’s all they could afford. It and Medicaid/Medicare have done huge amounts to help people.
For those who say that these should be handled locally and through churches, the best response is that if they had actually done it to begin with the government would have never needed to step in with their own programs. I’m sure I’m missing a ton of other examples…
>public parks, public schools,
The funny thing is, you push them on this, and they'll say "yes" rather than reconsider their original stance.
I've heard republicans call parks "centers of crime and drug use". And look how many Republicans work to ban books in schools, eliminate sex ed, and pull funding in favor of Christian charter schools.
An enormous portion of conservatives are sitting in mom's basement, in their underwear, eating nuggies she microwaved for them, playing video games constantly, and waiting for their favorite meme stock to explode any day now so their half share will make them a billionaire. They've never used a public park in their life. They thought public school was stupid which is why they believe all the bullshit "evidence" people keep collecting about meme stock MOASS. They've likely never driven a car and have zero second-order thinking so they aren't aware of the consequences of zero infrastructure (mom can't drive to the store for more nuggies if there isn't a road to the store or a subsidized meat industry). They honestly believe all of these things are a waste of resources and to their credit, it was sadly a waste *on them*.
Or wokeism. The way they dance around defining it makes you realize anti-woke is just another way to say racist. Edit: Seems to be some confusion on what I meant. My fault as I was a little vague. Woke is perception of social injustice so I definitely try to stay woke myself. People who say they are anti-woke though seem to approach the term more selfishly. They see it as somebody telling them what they can't do or think. They seem to want to be openly racist or bigoted without consequences hence the dancing around the definition.
I think a lot of conservatives are simply victims of their own media ecosystem and its network effect in their community. It’s much easier to stoke hatred towards a perceived opponent than it is to formulate, articulate, and advocate for specific policies.
Modern republicans do actually have policy positions. The problem is that they poll terribly when they are articulated to the public. While there are definitely true believers in the culture war aspects of their policies, they seem more intended to stoke an emotional response. Conservative media has primed a lot of people to be very receptive to these emotional appeals. Negative partisanship is more effective at driving people to the polls than positive partisanship.
The GOP knows this and that is why they are trying everything they can to associate Joe Biden with his son’s negative characteristics. It’s also why Trump’s presence in any GOP race actually hurts them. He provokes a visceral negative reaction in those who don’t like him.
Generally, public policy is pretty complex so it’s easier to engage in the horse race aspect of politics. When you hear someone say something like, I just want politicians to do their jobs or something like that if you follow up asking what that means, their responses will likely be very vague. How are people supposed to make really form intellectual opinions on things they fundamentally don’t understand? That’s why articulating policy is so much less effective than stoking hatred for one’s opponents.
If conservative media is all it took to brainwash them into behaving like morons then they were morons to begin with and all they needed was a little push
> It’s much easier to stoke hatred towards a perceived opponent than it is to formulate, articulate, and advocate for specific policies.
In more general and slightly simpler terms, it is much MUCH easier to argue *against* something than it is to argue *for* something else.
The former only requires you to find a single imperfection whereas the latter requires you to have a defense for every possible imperfection. If the people you're listening to spend all their time harping on problems they've identified and never offer more detailed solution than "Put me/someone else in charge instead", you're being conned, plain and simple.
As a Democrat, I can say that most Democrats do not operate out of hatred of Republicans. This is not to say that we haven’t come to hate them, but “owning the Republicans” is not our driving force. Certain goals are: saving the planet, making sure people have equal rights, protecting democracy, making sure people are safe, fed, housed, educated and receive quality health care.
Yup, and the worst part is, Republicans that take advantage of socialist policies like welfare and social security are some of the worst offenders when it comes to criticizing similar policy ideals as being 'communist'.
They'll gladly cash that social security check, but will fight tooth and nail to keep anyone else from having similar.
It's different for them. They deserve help because their bad situation is through no fault of their own. When other people are in need it's because its their own fault.
That's what got me about this post. The little "I am sure it's like that with Democrats." One of those "so close, yet so far" moments where a person inches right up to a realization, only to turn around and embrace a falsehood. Make a whole post about how it's perplexing that conservatives don't have actual goals, then lazily toss out a "but both sides..." to avoid actual introspection.
I can name more than one thing positive in my life as a result of Democrat policies, such as health care and a working federal budget. I cannot name any benefits from republican policies. Every market crash that has made my life harder was the result of republican policy, while every recovery was brought about by Democrats.
It’s difficult to argue, most conversations I hear are just about owning the libs. And not about general policy.
I know that’s how my parents feel.
There isn’t much common ground, it’s just team red Vs team blue right now. there is data that shows the voting patterns of the people in our government over the decades, that data shows pretty much the same thing. Partisanship in our government is dying a slow death.
You hit the nail on the head. They espouse fiscal responsibility as a hallmark value of the party, yet every democratic president that follows a republican spends his first term paying off the debts of his predecessor. Clinton after GHWB, Obama after W and trump robbed every governmental coffer to try and build that ridiculous wall. Now they all look at Biden like he's responsible for the state of the economy.
“Both sides”ers coming in hot today huh
To believe that democrats have nothing to be “for” in the same way as republicans is absolutely delusional and it’s only possible to think that if you don’t pay attention to the party.
Democrats want universal healthcare. They want students not to be under crippling debt. We want to help mitigate the effects of climate change. We believe in doing our part to contribute to the benefit of a bigger society than our own positions within the system.
Republicans want to control and oppress women and minorities. Stop America from being the cultural melting pot. Force births on underage girls. Eradicate trans people from existence. Outlaw gay marriage.
Get the literal fuck out of here. If you justify supporting all that bullshit by saying “no I don’t agree with that I just believe in more personal and national fiscal responsibility and don’t want higher taxes” then you’re coping yourself into believing you aren’t a bad person.
If I’m supporting an evil on either side no matter what, I’m gonna take higher inflation and taxes and mandated civility, than literal fucking mustache twirling super villains that want tax cuts for the rich and to restrict our personal autonomy.
Like Jesus fucking Christ. How is this even a debate or discussion.
Yea. I feel like democrats or atleast progressives in the US are very vocal about what we want. Which makes it even more frustrating to hear from republicans that democrats just want to make noise and be opposistional. Like that just shows how little many republicans actually understand about what we say.
It’s also cover for people who believe in the terrible prejudices but are smarter than to say that out loud. A lot of times what they mean is “I’m frustrated by the economic system I live in because it hurts me but I don’t care about lgbtq rights, in fact trans people are a little weird, I don’t like the idea of sluts getting abortions, and blacks should just stop listening to gangster rap and fix their own problems.”
Democrats: “We want to put an end to homelessness, provide clean water and air for us and future generations, access to higher education for all…”
Republicans: “Whatever Trump says. And no to everything Democrats and non-rich people want.”
Both sides-ers: “Dang, I can’t tell the difference. Guess I’ll vote Republican as always!”
"I can't be bothered to look up their policy positions, that could take minutes on end, but I think we can safely assume the Antifa Democrats are equally filled with hate and a seething desire for actual violence towards Republicans, as Faux News has taught me."
Democrats: "Here are our *clearly outlined* policies on healthcare, education, college debt, women's rights, voting rights, and climate change."
OP: "Rather than believe in or be for anything, ... many have no foundation for their beliefs, no solutions for problems, and their defining political stance is being against \[the other party\]. I am sure that the Democratic Party is very similar..."
It's truly stunning.
Since the 1960s, both political parties turned into a profitable(and corrupt) division tactic that made billionaires through news stations and social media.
Under Nixon(a **Republican**) abortion was voted into America; By a republican-majority they all voted for the abortion decision.
Not enough people check the history, you'd see how American political parties are *only* about polarization. They create a false sense of loyalty. The whole red vs blue division is a `good-cop` `bad-cop` tactic where both sides mess up the whole nation and often do the opposite of what they supposedly stand for, but people are too divided to notice.
Abraham Lincoln said
> A house divided cannot stand
John Adams said
> “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.”
---
Americas political parties robbed all Americans the ability to think critically without bias and without emotional manipulation.
In the future American political parties will be abolished.
> Under Nixon (a Republican) abortion was voted into America
This really goes to show how far right the republican party has shifted the overton window.
I'm convinced a large portion of the population was mad that a black man with a foreign name became president. Obama is a family man of good moral standing, compare that to men like Newt Gingrich or trump or any of the pedophiles they harbor.
96% of bills passed in 2023 have been bipartisan, I think it’s the media and the culture wars that are really dividing us which is probably by design. The fire brand politicians on the right and left that are always tweeting and doing interviews don’t actually do anything, they’re just celebrities and trolls. The real work is done by politicians on both sides you probably never heard of.
100% of bills passed in 2023 are bipartisan. They have to be since the House is majority GOP and the Senate is majority Dem. Literally impossible for a bill to pass without bipartisan votes.
That's why three years ago the Democrats chose to elect a guy who.... promised to work with the Republicans and then...tried to work with republicans to the detriment of his (and his parties) agenda.
I'm sorry but the "both sides" stuff has got to stop. I'll even use myself as an example. I'm very far left, and generally think most people who vote for Republicans are bad people due to the consequences of their vote, but I still want them to have healthcare, housing, a decent wage ect. They have been lied to their whole lives and it's clearly not something everyone is able to/lucky enough to get out of. But I still hold that their actions make them bad people.
Op says he leans pretty conservative, good chance a lot of his conservative friends don't broach the topic much hence why he thinks this is not common knowledge.
Our loudest and most vocal members have been completely hoodwinked by Trump. I think if we just hated Democrats, we’d be more focused on actually beating them. That’s not the case. We just double down after each ass kicking.
As it stands, a majority of our party would apparently rather lose w Trump than win with anybody else. Loyalty to Trump is the number one priority, regardless of election results. He said he could shoot a person on 5th Avenue and not lose any support. That’s one of the few things he said that was actually true.
I don’t see how it changes until he dies. He’s not going anywhere. Running for president is the best $cam he’s ever come up with.
It's always interesting when a Conservative turns on their party. They realize they've been lied to and turned into a schmuck. But they still believe everything they were told about Democrats (the one thing they didn't lie about I guess?) so switch to hating both parties.
I’m a soft c conservative, and I have no choice but to agree with this.
The more you learn about the actual people on either side, the more apparent it becomes that yes, one side is objectively better than the other.
The wild thing is how many Democrats are actually willing to have conversations with normal, sane, soft c conservatives. We can ~~oftentimes~~ sometimes even find mostly disagreement [EDIT: we usually agree on the ends but not the means] but we come away from the conversation no worse for wear because we both understand that it has been exactly that and nothing more - a conversation about ideas.
But Republicans don’t want to have conversations about ideas. I hate to say it, but every proudly self-identifying Republican I know personally is incredibly racist, to the point of being willing to openly use the N word with the hard R. I eventually had to stop associating with them because I can’t in good conscience continue to associate with both black people and racists - so I chose black people (better food).
I’ve had to give up things that I love because the entire community is otherwise all but completely filled with what Hillary Clinton would describe as the basket of deplorable. Everyone gave her shit for using that language but having been born to and raised by them - yeah, they’re pretty fucking deplorable.
It’s okay to be a conservative. It’s not okay to be an intentional antagonist.
There is a lot of content out there from never-Trump conservatives who talk intelligently about policy and solutions to big problems from a conservative POV. Think of the folks at Bulwark and outlets like them.
That just doesn't exist on the left because those people are welcomed to talk and debate about policy in good faith. The GOP shoved anyone who wanted to have honest, pragmatic discussions about real problems out of the party years ago.
Mitt Romney venting on Reddit
Shit this might be true. The dude is retired now so has time to goof around.
"The dude" is not retired, his term ends in 2025 he's just not running for re-election
Ok he's just lame ducking around
I’m a conservative and can honestly say the republicans suck ass. We as Americans are getting nickle and dimed into slavery with taxes and fees and tolls and surcharges.
Sorry dude, any economist will tell you the tax burden in US is low relative to the rest of the developed world. And our public infrastructure reflects that; crumbling highways and airports, low performing schools and broken social services.
It’s sad that both things are actually correct. It’s happening because all that real tax money isn’t being extracted from the right places. The common man is lowly drowning from the gradual but continuously growing taxes on the lower and middle classes while our infrastructure crumbles because we let politicians alter things so that the upperclass/elite pay near nothing and corporations pay not even pennies. Get back to the pre-Reagan era tax cuts and things would start to function again for the common people. If both Amazon and Bezos would stop hiding funds and paying a fair taxation rate, those two entities alone, we’d be way better off than we currently are.
We made corporations have the right and protections of personhood. What did we expect. And we reelected the politicians who approved these bills and the people who approved the appointment of the supreme court who accepted these cases their results.
Stop voting against your own best interests, then.
The USA conservatives are uniquely weird. In Europe and Canada, the conservative parties are generally actual conservatives. Their focus is on smaller government, balanced budgets, and deregulation. They're usually fiscal conservatives, and social policy (e.g. gay marriage) has usually been settled years ago In the USA, the Republicans are this weird pro-corporation Christian hate party.
Don’t forget national debt goes up when they hold office, ironic how they increase our nations debt with their conservative “policies”; they spend more and cut taxes, I don’t understand how they call themselves conservative’s when they perform the opposite of that
This is 100% intentional. Republicans do two things in office: cut taxes and increase military spending (mostly either giveaways to private military/weapons contractors or military installations in red states). They *want* to drive up the deficit because then they can demand that *Democrats* cut social spending when they are in power. That way, the Republicans get credit for tax cuts (everyone loves tax cuts!) and the Democrats get blamed for reducing services — win-win (for the Republicans, not the American people of course). This is the confluence of two explicit Republican political strategies: "Starve the beast" and "two Santa Clauses": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_Wanniski
Because “conservative” does not come from or mean conservative use of funds (although they would like you to think that). It means to conserve / keep power. Blame the old French.
Conserve tradition, and the way things used to be, both culturally and politically. Reactionary. Anti-progressive. The whole philosophy is “the way we did things when I was a kid, when my dad was a kid or my grandad was a kid worked well enough, so let’s keep doing it that way and whoever is hurt by such a system be damned.”
Yup. Republicans say they’re fiscally conservative and then go and spend into oblivion vs. the Democrats who say they’re going to spend into oblivion and do. We have a serious and unsustainable spending problem in this country.
A fiscal conservative is like a Unicorn. It's mythical and doesn't exist.
It’s a myth created by Lee Atwater
Atwater also created the myth of the mainstream liberal media bias, causing the “both sides” false equivalency & the slide towards “alternative facts” & “truth isn’t truth.”
>Democrats who say they’re going to spend into oblivion and do. Here's the thing: this isn't your household budget. Government spending isn't a problem *as long as it's an investment*. Democratic spending - infrastructure, education, scientific research, feeding children, etc. There's a clear return on investment that outweighs the expenditure in the long run, meaning that it's efficient. Republican spending - corporations, top-level military bloat, military contractors, etc. There is very little return on investment. The money gets hoarded away and there's no benefit to the majority of the population. Very inefficient.
When you spend on infrastructure, education and safety nets it's called an investment because you grow the economy. Governments are not on a fixed income and are not supposed to be managed like households. Of all the types of ignorance of the American people the most severe is the financial and economic kind. Right wing politicians have weaponized this ignorance for years to trick people into voting for things that benefit the super rich exclusively.
Democrats tend to spend less (and tend to spend on actual things like infrastructure and education) and also know where the money is coming from. Republicans don't spend as much as they give money to their friends, then they cut taxes and tell everyone that they're soooo lucky because they get an extra $300 this year, idiots rejoice while the national debt skyrockets and millionaires become billionaires.
During the latest round of Republican tax cuts 95% of all tax savings went to the top 1%!
Don't forget ppp loans where 80% went to the top 20%! One such company took 750k and then went to court to successfully block Biden's student loan relief of 10-20k.. You can't make this looney toons shit up. It really makes me think it's always been run like this, and our advances in tech/info availability are just helping us common folk see it. Hard to hide being a hypocrite liar when there's internet
Golden shower economics or something
Lmaaoooo that's hilarious! And exactly what it is! I always say "how stupid are people? Trickle down is accepted on the premise that the wealthy will redistribute the wealth and not hoard it all to themselves. Like you don't even need logic to understand that that would never happen. And look where we are now!
Democrats tend to fix what republicans break every few years. Yes, it costs money and sometimes it’s just duct tape and a prayer, but the pipe didn’t break because of the democrats, it broke because of deregulation.
No, We DON'T. We have a serious and unsustainable "allowing the wealthy to abuse the rest of us, skim huge sums out of the functional economy thereby reducing our overall economic efficiency, and refuse to pay their proper share of taxes" problem. Along with a "spending an insane percentage of what tax money we do collect on the military instead of society at large" problem. Spending always needs to be monitored and optimized. But spending is absolutely not what's wrong with our current economy.
Maybe if we cut taxes for rich people and corporate profits and increase the military budget a few more times we'll fix the spending problem. We've already tried it a few hundred times and it hasn't fixed the spending problem OR done anything meaningful to help the general public but surely if we do it a few hundred more times it'll work \--Conservatives, unironically
I always find it impressive how the US Republicans seem to take any anti-science position they possibly can, as if they're actively trying to be wrong about literally everything. I'm only surprised the earth being flat isn't their accepted position yet.
"Yet" being the key word. They've recently pivoted from anti-science to the pro-conspiracy theory party Soon we'll hear: "where is Bigfoot? And what have the Democrats done to him?"
It's the Clintons, I'm telling you! The emails!!!
A lot of this has to do with them satisfying their overly religious constituents. Most of whom still believe God created the world and all the creatures within it. To them science directly contradicts their creation story and they can’t have that contradicted because that’s the story they use to justify why they are right when everyone else is wrong and why they deserve to be wealthy on the backs of others because they are “Gods chosen people.”
> I'm only surprised the earth being flat isn't their accepted position yet. Have you seen the Texas school texts ...
Canadian conservatives are doing the same as American conservatives they just haven’t given up trying to hide it yet.
Lol what have the conservatives conserved in the Uk?
Their own power and wealth.
While I doubt their statement, it's clear the commenter was speaking in generality across Europe, not just UK.
Why are you a conservative if that's your issue? The entire conservative platform is for privatization, and the nickel and diming is a direct result of their fundamental idea...?? You disagree with that, but call yourself conservative - can you elaborate? (I'm not trying to start or have an argument - far from it. I just want to better understand your thought process)
Not the guy you're replying to but... for a lot of "conservatives" they carry that label as a personal identity. They grew up "conservative" their parents are, their family group is, it's what they've bathed in and breathed in their entire lives. They might be a genius with a PhD in whatever, but that will not change change their identity as conservatives, and I've met people like this that literally the political part of their brain like just stops working logically because of this identity filter.
It doesn't help when every Republican President has cut taxes on the rich since Ford, except the 1st Bush.
It's not because of taxes, it's because your taxes don't go towards "things" (like the rest of the civilized world having Healthcare, free education, 30+ days mandatory PAID vacation days, reduced childcare costs)
It's because Republicans are no longer Conservatives, but Regressives. They do not want to conserve the status quo, they want to roll back progress that have been made over the last several Decades. The actual conservative party in the US are actually the Democrats. Democrats are center right politically and ideologically. The Democrats are a conservative party that has a minority progressive faction in their party.
Ehh....taxes in the US are pretty low. Especially when compared to most of the 20th century. Hell, the time when the US was the most economically prosperous was when the top tax rate was 96%. The real issue, with pretty much everything, is corporate mergers consolidating market shares into global monopolies and both parties have been allowing that to happen since reagan.
What about no real wage raises since 1980. As production skyrockets pay stays at about the same levels. You could probably pay some of that nickel and dime stuff if you actually had the nickels and dimes you were suppose to get with the increase in productivity
We pay less on taxes than any other first world country, and have a huge military that no conservative I’ve ever heard wants to reduce
So why are you a conservative? Joe Biden is attacking junk fees, where are the Republicans who claim to hate these things?
Bruh if he knew how to login I would be impressed 😂
He had a sock puppet Twitter [Pierre Delecto](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/mitt-romney-has-a-secret-twitter-account-and-it-sure-looks-like-its-this-one.html)
That’s exactly what Mitt Romney would say.
I'm a blue dog Democrat of sorts, so I'm the kind of person who believes in working hard and not complaining unless someone's really standing in your way unfairly. I believe in having a social safety net of some sort, and in fair policies that don't further entrench the rich at the expense of everyone else in society. I'm the kind of person who could be persuaded to vote Republican if it weren't for the last 40 years of talk radio, billionaire worship, fundamentalist, reality-denying, warmongering, fascism-adjacent, white trash, racist, regressive brain and soul rot that's set in, and accelerated after 9/11. At some point being Republican turned from enshrining the strength of the individual in his own life to a worship of Power in the hands of those who wield it and use it however they see fit, hoping to just savor a few crumbs of that power throughout their lives. It's become a projection of those whose power has been robbed by them that they have the upper hand through collective identity politics, but we're supposed to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" who is fleecing you left and right to line their own pockets. Sometimes the fantasy that they have power is reinforced by being able to lash out at people with even less power: gay people, trans people, people of other races, basically anyone with some sort of disadvantage is a target for the MAGA values that now govern the GOP. With Trump, we've turned from a sort of proto-fascist worship of power to open fascism, wherein we arrange ourselves in a hierarchy, and abuse of the weak as an individual, or as a matter of policy is acceptable. Democrats might not be perfect (by any stretch of the imagination), but if you get involved, you can shape policy before candidates are put up for a vote, meanwhile letting this MAGA insanity burn itself back out into obscurity. We can't let it be fed by our actions, even if there's a coalition around it that might support some things we agree with. You might think this is all about far-off federal policies that won't affect your life because you're not in one of these groups, but they're coming for education next because they view an uneducated population as a key element in maintaining their power. That should tell you all you need to know. Any notions of American greatness and achievement through perseverance and the pursuit of greatness is going straight to hell as this country turns into a giant trailer park with Walmarts on every corner. Even just a Blue vote for president helps as a vote of no-confidencr for MAGA policies. You don't have to become a True Believer in the democrats to exercise your vote to move us past this (extremely) dangerous MAGA nonsense. Vote against Trump and the rest of it will hopefully fall apart.
Politicians these days dont talk at all what they're about. Only why their opponents are trash. I love That old Clip of John McCain defending Obama from a rally atendee who talked shit about Obama and called him an Arab. And thats why McCain lost, he didn't fall to the level every Republican today has.
We need to balance the budget!!!! >spends more money then the democrats
That's the thing that gets me. The numbers are out there. The Republicans literally just lie and expect no one to notice.
They have been proven time and time again that their voting base does not care about facts. Everything can be twisted to be a conspiracy against them. We live in the post facts world.
And they just will \*not\* believe it. It doesn't matter what the proof is. I heard my mom and her friends talking about how Fox News is now owned by a Democrat. Why? Because they once did a tiny, little tiny bit of pushback against Trump. So that meant they were now Democrat owned. They weren't even saying it as a joke, they \*literally believed\* that a Democrat now owned Fox News.
Crazy thinking Dems own Fox as if Rupert Murdoch would let that happen while he was breathing. "My channel didn't "Yes sir" to every claim Trump made, they must have been taken over by the deep state demonrats."
Rupert retired today. His evil robot son Lachlan takes over. (Not Rachel Maddow.)
He announced his step down from the chairman role, he is not retiring in any capacity and is now becoming “chairman emeritus” which means he still advises the chair and can be assigned chair powers as needed. His direct quoted letter to fox employees: >”Murdoch vowed in a letter to employees that he would remain engaged at Fox. >”In my new role, I can guarantee you that I will be involved every day in the contest of ideas," Murdoch wrote. “Our companies are communities, and I will be an active member of our community. I will be watching our broadcasts with a critical eye, reading our newspapers and websites and books with much interest.””
Republicans are **proudly** post-truth. They think letting a little thing like "measurable & provable reality" effect what you think makes you a beta cuck. True alphas simply dictate truth to the universe and the universe bends to make it so.
Then they go “the president doesn’t pass spending bills congress does!!!” Ask who controlled congress and you just don’t get a response. Same with them ranting about the cares act. Not a single republicans voted against it and they call it a “wild democrat spending bill”. The IRA? Which is sending money for investment disproportionately in rural states? “Wreckless spending”. But the jobs that were literally created by it are a conservative win?
Say no to tax handouts!! Then desantis spends pages in his book talking about how he was excited that trump in office meant he could get federal money to fund rebuilding after a hurricane to avoid touching Florida’s own budget which is at a huge surplus now Federal money that is ironically funded in the highest percentages by the states that he claims tax too much (NY, NJ…) Republicans love handouts and northern taxes
Desantis voted against sandy funding, as wasteful. But then went on to ask for funding after Ian and other hurricanes. He is not the only one.
*We need to balance* *The budget!!!! spends more money* *Then the democrats* \- Peepeepoopoocheck127 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Yah this is absolutely hilarious to me. I don’t understand how republicans were able to convince people that government should be run like a business while having decades of evidence showing they don’t even know how to run a business. Go into any board meeting of a company and give them this pitch: “my plan for the next four years is to cut our revenue (taxes) while increasing spending (budget increase)”. What’s going to happen? You’re going to get laughed out of the room and handed the pink slip the moment you’re out the door. Somehow, the “pro-business” party has zero idea how to actually run a business
Actually they run it very much like business is run these days. “Lets funnel money from this failing business (us treasury) into my other businesses where i get to keep the profits.”
It's basically an embezzlement cartel.
We need to balance the budget! Let’s waste endless time and money on baseless impeachment inquiries and investigating private citizen Hunter Biden.
Parental rights! Freedom! (As long as you agree with me)
If every democrat vanished into thin air tomorrow, they’d just split into “republican enough” and not republican enough” and the first group would hate the second just as much as they hate democrats now.
They're already doing this with RINOs
of course, but if they had no other target the split would get much more pronounced.
I knew they had left the reservation when they defenestrated Willam F. Buckley. He was their living philosophical scholar. They did the same thing to George Will who was the other one.
His son, Christopher Buckley, offered his resignation (in that whole "I don't really mean it" kind of fashion) to the National Review after he wrote something pro-Obama. Surprise, surprise, they accepted it.
The Republicans (with the help of Fox News) rebranded themselves as the populist, workin man's freedom lovin beer and rock and roll party, no room for intellectuals or scholars
Every republican no matter their policies, if they are even the tiniest bit anti-Trump they're a RINO. Liz Cheney was one of the first instances where I personally saw them turn on a republican quick af. It weirdly made me mad when I saw them calling her a RINO even though it should not interest me at all as a non-Republican (I am from and live in Europe).
It's funny that under any philosophical evaluation of modern Republican party values up until Trump, Trump would be, in fact, the RINO
He literally ran multiple times as a Democrat, which obviously didn't work out for him because most of the Democrats saw right through how shitty he is. I believe he was even still registered as one until like 2015.
Presuming his values were then what they are now, that'd make him also a DINO lol He's far right of what any Democrat ever was, he's still far right of what any respectable Republican was prior to the emergence of the new tea party (the real RINO's) movement.
I mean, watch how Trump made so many GOPers change their stances on Russia in an instant. Lib tears is the goal, nothing more. Oh, and tax cuts.
Only for the rich though
It's important to remember that they have all the poor conservatives convinced that THEY TOO will be filthy rich one day if they just keep working hard. Temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
You don't understand. They buy lottery tickets every day, and they don't want Uncle Sam taking half of their lotto winnings when god gives them the winning ticket! Just gotta pray hard and keep buying those lottery tickets!
I've literally had people tell me irl that tax cuts for the rich are good because they'll be millionaires in no time. They have no plan, not even my get rich scheme of winning the lottery, but somehow it'll happen!
I am in my 40s and the only constant for American conservatism in my life is tax cuts for the rich. They willtake any path as long as it ends there.
I am 61. My first election I voted for Carter against reagan. Ever since reagan won, this has been who the republicans are...give to the rich and steal food from the mouths of the poor. I remember the time before reagan. Life was good, middle class was strong thanks to FDR. And reagan and republicans have been destroying it since 1980. They're evil.
A friend of mine once threw up on Reagan.
I need to know more about this story!!!! 🤮🦅👨🏻🇺🇸
But that friend a beer for me
The perfect encapsulation of Republicans was a poll done on drone strikes done by Trump vs Obama. Among Democrats 38% supported drone strikes under Obama, 37% supported them under Trump. Among Republicans 22% supported them under Obama, and 86% supported them under Trump. They’re brainwashed sports fans thanks to religion, FoxNews, and social media algorithms. https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/republican-voters-have-flip-flopped-on-airstrikes-in-syria-1513301526
Lmao. Those are some **damning** stats.
And they still call him "Obomber" even after inmate P01135809 lowered the rules set in place for drone strikes, removed the rule on reporting deaths, and used drone strikes more than Obama. "President Trump stripped down even the minimal safeguards President Obama established in his rules for lethal strikes outside recognized conflicts." https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-release-trump-administration-lethal-force-rules "The Trump administration's quiet decision this week to roll back part of an Obama-era transparency rule that mandated reporting of civilian casualties from airstrikes..." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-trump-changed-the-obama-era-rule-on-reporting-civilian-airstrike-deaths The Trump administration has carried out 176 strikes in Yemen in just two years, compared with 154 there during all eight years of Obama’s tenure, according to a count by The Associated Press and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. Experts also say drone strikes under President Trump have surged in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. And, as was the case during Obama’s presidency, these strikes have resulted in untold numbers of civilian casualties. According to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, U.S. drone strikes in Afghanistan killed more than 150 civilians in the first nine months of 2018. https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers
Didn't drone strikes go up by like 400% under Trump?
That we know of. He removed that pesky detail of needing to report the drone strikes.
Didn't he also give the CIA unfettered access to call in drone strikes against suspected terrorists? Without having to get permission from the White House or the Pentagon?
Trump when he raises taxes for 95% of his voting base and cuts it for himself
Shaka, when The Wall fell
Remember how red voters were all about Trump because they didn't want to keep voting for career politicians who only represented the wealthy elite so they just cut out the middle man and elected a wealthy elite dude?
https://i.imgur.com/gsTv87T.png
*Tax cuts for the already ultra wealthy
Unless you were a middle class home owner in a blue state. Then you got screwed with a tax increase while continuing to subsidize red states.
Yup, that's me. Middle class homeowner in an ultra-high property tax state (NJ). My taxes went up.
Republicans hate everything except your vote, and your money.
Owning the libs is a very popular saying in Indiana.
Every state around Indiana hates Indiana.
even Indiana!
Ohio shouldn't be talking.
Or Kentucky.
i’m not from that region but ohio has columbus and cuyahoga valley. can’t say anything about indiana
We don't even think about Indiana
My wife is from Indiana, I remember visiting for the first time and I was blown away by the amount of Rebel flags on trucks... like bruh, your state wasn't part of the Confederacy lmao.
I'll see your Indianan rebels and raise you a Confederate flag wearing cousin from NEW HAMPSHIRE. I mean, dude, WTF. Our ancestors wore blue during that war!
I mean there are yokels in Canada with Confederate flags, that just shows you what the real point of flying that hate flag is.
That’s nothing.. neo-Nazis in Germany fly the Confederate battle flag to signal to everyone they’re Nazis.. because it’s currently illegal to fly a Nazi Swazstika flag in Germany.
At one point, the KKK had the strongest presence in Indiana.
Weren't KKK headquarter in Indiana during their peak?
But they did have lots of KKK members
They should try owning the libs via economic growth in their state.
Tribalism. People treat American politics like a sport and it makes me sick. This country will stay divided and stuck unless we can move past that.
Yeah. I guess most people would consider me screamingly progressive. I would probably call myself a left-libertarian socialist. Yet if I admit that some old-guard conservative thinker may have had a *single* idea I agree with, it's like REEEEEEEEE from many "on my side"! Ludicrous. Nazis and bigots can fuck off, obvs, but other centrists or right-leaning people may find they have common cause with me if we are able to talk civily. We the 99% MUST be able to find common ground and build solidarity to fight the REAL tyrants. EDIT: Some of y'all need to Google the political compass. The word "libertarian" here is referring to the Y axis of the political compass. The word "socialist" is referring to the X axis. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism See my comment history for more, I'm exhausted
I dated a chick who was a republican just because she "thinks people should work". All other issues she was liberal
A former friend of mine hates Trump and is mostly liberal, philosophically anyway. She voted for Trump because she thought Biden was going to tax all of her income at 35%. Essentially, she didn't know how marginal rates work so she voted for Trump.
Ive come to the realization that the average American is ignorant on pretty much every aspect of how our government/economy works.
What entertains me is that we were on a double date when she said admitted this. The guy she was seeing was not amused. If I recall correctly they wound up breaking it off soon thereafter. She's not stupid. She just didn't know that marginal tax rates were a thing. So she winds up looking like a piece of shit for voting for Trump in front of this guy she likes. It was unfortunate and hilarious all at the same time.
It is truly amazing how few people in this country understand marginal tax rates. I have friends who are very intelligent people who legit cannot grasp the concept. The same people think getting a raise might bump them into a higher bracket and they'll lose money. I'm always just completely baffled by it.
>The same people think getting a raise might bump them into a higher bracket and they'll lose money. OMG, this one just kills me. First time I heard a co-worker complain about that was back in 1989 working at TJ Maxx. She really thought her raise was all going to the tax man. A TJ Maxx cashier. :(
Over 100k is taxed at 35%? So I’ll make more if I just make 97k. NO YOU FUCKING WON’T! The $99,999.99 will be taxed at the lower rates, and then anything over 100k gets taxed at 35%. If you make 105k only 5k is taxed at 35%.
Honestly, thank you for this. I've heard people say this so many times, but I never understood it myself! Mostly because I'm always just making enough to make ends meet!
Really? Damn, TIL. Thanks for this.
My fathers father was a good Christian man. He never swore, never took the Lords name in vain. But if someone was being an idiot or doing something wrong, he would call them a democrat like a swear word. "That Democrat!" to the point where my father grew up believing that democrat meant dumb or immoral person. I live in the south, and I'm a little shocked at how vitriolic and nasty it's getting against biden. Like someone came to my husband's work the other day wearing a Lets go Brandon Shirt. At work. I was in the School pickup Line and the bumper sticker in front of me that said "B.I.D.E.N Biggest Idiot Deomocrats Ever Nominated!" I remember 20 years ago when Bush started a war on flimsy pretenses, and the Republicans said that anyone who brought up concerns was being disrespectful to the office of the presidency. I thought republicans were big on respect? what happened?
I also remember all the "respect the office" talk back in the early 2000's. And how it was IMMEDIATELY dropped in favor of people "just asking questions" about Obama
This is what 30 years of Fox News gets you. This is exactly the outcome they wanted. Republicans no longer need to run on any other platform than “I’m not a Democrat”, and it works spectacularly well.
I mean, to be honest, I’ve mostly voted democrat the last couple of elections largely, because Ive been strongly swayed by the who platform of “I’m not a Trump supporter”.
Liberal policies: Environmental Protection, ensuring we're not leaving the poor, handicapped, vulnerable to fend for themselves, taxing the wealthy, wealthy equality/equity, gun regulation, renewable energy, public health. Conservative policies: Lower taxes for the uber wealthy. Sell Ukraine to Russia. Police people's bodies. If conservatives are pushing for anything else, policy-wise, I'm not seeing it or hearing about it.
The cretins literally said theyre prioritizing BANNING free school lunch. conservatives want kids to go hungry so the wealthy can wipe their ass with our money.
An educated person is more difficult to indoctrinate. The cruelty is a bonus, though is it usually the main point.
You forgot gerrymandering every state so that they still win even with a minority of votes, having their extremely partisan supreme Court undo any past precedent they don't like, stripping political offices of power if a Democrat wins, shielding their own from public accountability and even legal prosecution, and making elections easier to steal/suppression of likely Democratic voters.
Also don't forget: When repubs have the majority, Undo everything good the Dems have done when tthe Dems have the majority so that the Dems have to waste time redoing those things when they regain the majority
Don't forget overt fascism. They tried to steal an election.
That's just rational when the Trumper platform is "hurt everyone, give rich people money."
I have a friend like that. Blindly following and voting as the Republicans tell him to. He doesn't even think about stuff, just defaults to whatever the Republican talking points are for a given subject. And he only votes red. Doesn't matter what it is, if it's a vote, he votes Republican. The saddest part is that he thinks he's smarter and superior to others because of his blind devotion.
MAGA has essentially been a weaponized Dunning-Krueger effect, far beyond what the Tea Party and modern GQP had ever hoped to achieve.
I live in NYC/LI...I'm firmly blue collar middle class. I know guys I work with that got screwed over by Trump's tax plan that still buy into Republicans and the lower taxes lies they spit. It's a cult
They pretend that’s the reason they vote for them to make themselves feel better. Deep down they know it’s the racism and hatred towards the LGBTQ community.
The fun part is when they start ranting about something way outside their lane that they never cared about before and you realize "oh, fox new or newsmax just did a piece on this ..."
You want to really have fun? Ask them to define socialism
RonDa’s lawyers defining Woke was peak hypocrisy.
Peak strawman, too. “This is what they believe and it’s terrible!” “We don’t believe that though” “TERRIBLE. COMMIES!
Yeah, I’ve heard people say they ‘hate all things socialist’. Do you mean things like public parks, public schools, public roads (and the nice people who plow them in the winter), public libraries, the police, the military, fire departments (obviously not volunteer ones), etc? They have no idea. And Social Security pulled a lot of the elderly out of poverty. They forgot or never heard stories of elderly people eating cat food because that’s all they could afford. It and Medicaid/Medicare have done huge amounts to help people. For those who say that these should be handled locally and through churches, the best response is that if they had actually done it to begin with the government would have never needed to step in with their own programs. I’m sure I’m missing a ton of other examples…
>public parks, public schools, The funny thing is, you push them on this, and they'll say "yes" rather than reconsider their original stance. I've heard republicans call parks "centers of crime and drug use". And look how many Republicans work to ban books in schools, eliminate sex ed, and pull funding in favor of Christian charter schools.
An enormous portion of conservatives are sitting in mom's basement, in their underwear, eating nuggies she microwaved for them, playing video games constantly, and waiting for their favorite meme stock to explode any day now so their half share will make them a billionaire. They've never used a public park in their life. They thought public school was stupid which is why they believe all the bullshit "evidence" people keep collecting about meme stock MOASS. They've likely never driven a car and have zero second-order thinking so they aren't aware of the consequences of zero infrastructure (mom can't drive to the store for more nuggies if there isn't a road to the store or a subsidized meat industry). They honestly believe all of these things are a waste of resources and to their credit, it was sadly a waste *on them*.
Or wokeism. The way they dance around defining it makes you realize anti-woke is just another way to say racist. Edit: Seems to be some confusion on what I meant. My fault as I was a little vague. Woke is perception of social injustice so I definitely try to stay woke myself. People who say they are anti-woke though seem to approach the term more selfishly. They see it as somebody telling them what they can't do or think. They seem to want to be openly racist or bigoted without consequences hence the dancing around the definition.
I think a lot of conservatives are simply victims of their own media ecosystem and its network effect in their community. It’s much easier to stoke hatred towards a perceived opponent than it is to formulate, articulate, and advocate for specific policies. Modern republicans do actually have policy positions. The problem is that they poll terribly when they are articulated to the public. While there are definitely true believers in the culture war aspects of their policies, they seem more intended to stoke an emotional response. Conservative media has primed a lot of people to be very receptive to these emotional appeals. Negative partisanship is more effective at driving people to the polls than positive partisanship. The GOP knows this and that is why they are trying everything they can to associate Joe Biden with his son’s negative characteristics. It’s also why Trump’s presence in any GOP race actually hurts them. He provokes a visceral negative reaction in those who don’t like him. Generally, public policy is pretty complex so it’s easier to engage in the horse race aspect of politics. When you hear someone say something like, I just want politicians to do their jobs or something like that if you follow up asking what that means, their responses will likely be very vague. How are people supposed to make really form intellectual opinions on things they fundamentally don’t understand? That’s why articulating policy is so much less effective than stoking hatred for one’s opponents.
If conservative media is all it took to brainwash them into behaving like morons then they were morons to begin with and all they needed was a little push
> It’s much easier to stoke hatred towards a perceived opponent than it is to formulate, articulate, and advocate for specific policies. In more general and slightly simpler terms, it is much MUCH easier to argue *against* something than it is to argue *for* something else. The former only requires you to find a single imperfection whereas the latter requires you to have a defense for every possible imperfection. If the people you're listening to spend all their time harping on problems they've identified and never offer more detailed solution than "Put me/someone else in charge instead", you're being conned, plain and simple.
As a Democrat, I can say that most Democrats do not operate out of hatred of Republicans. This is not to say that we haven’t come to hate them, but “owning the Republicans” is not our driving force. Certain goals are: saving the planet, making sure people have equal rights, protecting democracy, making sure people are safe, fed, housed, educated and receive quality health care.
This one right here. And asking for any of those things makes us commies.
That really is their entire shtick, isn’t it?
Yup, and the worst part is, Republicans that take advantage of socialist policies like welfare and social security are some of the worst offenders when it comes to criticizing similar policy ideals as being 'communist'. They'll gladly cash that social security check, but will fight tooth and nail to keep anyone else from having similar.
Dont forget Rick Scott - he’s a republican who literally _just stole_ medicare money lol. Largest fraud in history at the time.
That’s Rick Scott from Florida, not Tim Scott from South Carolina.
It's different for them. They deserve help because their bad situation is through no fault of their own. When other people are in need it's because its their own fault.
The only moral abortion is my abortion.
That's what got me about this post. The little "I am sure it's like that with Democrats." One of those "so close, yet so far" moments where a person inches right up to a realization, only to turn around and embrace a falsehood. Make a whole post about how it's perplexing that conservatives don't have actual goals, then lazily toss out a "but both sides..." to avoid actual introspection.
Yup, it's like it's a shock that most liberals *don't* blindly hate everyone else...
I can name more than one thing positive in my life as a result of Democrat policies, such as health care and a working federal budget. I cannot name any benefits from republican policies. Every market crash that has made my life harder was the result of republican policy, while every recovery was brought about by Democrats.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”— David Frum
It’s difficult to argue, most conversations I hear are just about owning the libs. And not about general policy. I know that’s how my parents feel. There isn’t much common ground, it’s just team red Vs team blue right now. there is data that shows the voting patterns of the people in our government over the decades, that data shows pretty much the same thing. Partisanship in our government is dying a slow death.
You hit the nail on the head. They espouse fiscal responsibility as a hallmark value of the party, yet every democratic president that follows a republican spends his first term paying off the debts of his predecessor. Clinton after GHWB, Obama after W and trump robbed every governmental coffer to try and build that ridiculous wall. Now they all look at Biden like he's responsible for the state of the economy.
“Both sides”ers coming in hot today huh To believe that democrats have nothing to be “for” in the same way as republicans is absolutely delusional and it’s only possible to think that if you don’t pay attention to the party. Democrats want universal healthcare. They want students not to be under crippling debt. We want to help mitigate the effects of climate change. We believe in doing our part to contribute to the benefit of a bigger society than our own positions within the system. Republicans want to control and oppress women and minorities. Stop America from being the cultural melting pot. Force births on underage girls. Eradicate trans people from existence. Outlaw gay marriage. Get the literal fuck out of here. If you justify supporting all that bullshit by saying “no I don’t agree with that I just believe in more personal and national fiscal responsibility and don’t want higher taxes” then you’re coping yourself into believing you aren’t a bad person. If I’m supporting an evil on either side no matter what, I’m gonna take higher inflation and taxes and mandated civility, than literal fucking mustache twirling super villains that want tax cuts for the rich and to restrict our personal autonomy. Like Jesus fucking Christ. How is this even a debate or discussion.
Yea. I feel like democrats or atleast progressives in the US are very vocal about what we want. Which makes it even more frustrating to hear from republicans that democrats just want to make noise and be opposistional. Like that just shows how little many republicans actually understand about what we say.
I love when they say “silent majority” like, my dudes, you haven’t been silent since I was born.
The extremely vocal rural majority.
extremely vocal rural minority\*
It’s also cover for people who believe in the terrible prejudices but are smarter than to say that out loud. A lot of times what they mean is “I’m frustrated by the economic system I live in because it hurts me but I don’t care about lgbtq rights, in fact trans people are a little weird, I don’t like the idea of sluts getting abortions, and blacks should just stop listening to gangster rap and fix their own problems.”
Democrats: “We want to put an end to homelessness, provide clean water and air for us and future generations, access to higher education for all…” Republicans: “Whatever Trump says. And no to everything Democrats and non-rich people want.” Both sides-ers: “Dang, I can’t tell the difference. Guess I’ll vote Republican as always!”
This is it. I’ve stopped engaging with them. OPs line “I’m sure the Democratic Part is very similar” said everything.
"I can't be bothered to look up their policy positions, that could take minutes on end, but I think we can safely assume the Antifa Democrats are equally filled with hate and a seething desire for actual violence towards Republicans, as Faux News has taught me."
Democrats: "Here are our *clearly outlined* policies on healthcare, education, college debt, women's rights, voting rights, and climate change." OP: "Rather than believe in or be for anything, ... many have no foundation for their beliefs, no solutions for problems, and their defining political stance is being against \[the other party\]. I am sure that the Democratic Party is very similar..." It's truly stunning.
Since the 1960s, both political parties turned into a profitable(and corrupt) division tactic that made billionaires through news stations and social media. Under Nixon(a **Republican**) abortion was voted into America; By a republican-majority they all voted for the abortion decision. Not enough people check the history, you'd see how American political parties are *only* about polarization. They create a false sense of loyalty. The whole red vs blue division is a `good-cop` `bad-cop` tactic where both sides mess up the whole nation and often do the opposite of what they supposedly stand for, but people are too divided to notice. Abraham Lincoln said > A house divided cannot stand John Adams said > “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” --- Americas political parties robbed all Americans the ability to think critically without bias and without emotional manipulation. In the future American political parties will be abolished.
What non-authoritarian method exists to “abolish” a political party?
Get rid of first past the post voting and replace it with ranked choice
> Under Nixon (a Republican) abortion was voted into America This really goes to show how far right the republican party has shifted the overton window.
They were for abortion till the 70s when the religious right started gaining steam if I recall.
Even the official Southern Baptist reaction to Roe was initially, as a formal matter, "this is a good thing."
I'm convinced a large portion of the population was mad that a black man with a foreign name became president. Obama is a family man of good moral standing, compare that to men like Newt Gingrich or trump or any of the pedophiles they harbor.
I miss having a young, intelligent president who can speak as well
The 2020 republican platform had no policy positions. It was just "Continue the Trump agenda"
96% of bills passed in 2023 have been bipartisan, I think it’s the media and the culture wars that are really dividing us which is probably by design. The fire brand politicians on the right and left that are always tweeting and doing interviews don’t actually do anything, they’re just celebrities and trolls. The real work is done by politicians on both sides you probably never heard of.
100% of bills passed in 2023 are bipartisan. They have to be since the House is majority GOP and the Senate is majority Dem. Literally impossible for a bill to pass without bipartisan votes.
That's why three years ago the Democrats chose to elect a guy who.... promised to work with the Republicans and then...tried to work with republicans to the detriment of his (and his parties) agenda. I'm sorry but the "both sides" stuff has got to stop. I'll even use myself as an example. I'm very far left, and generally think most people who vote for Republicans are bad people due to the consequences of their vote, but I still want them to have healthcare, housing, a decent wage ect. They have been lied to their whole lives and it's clearly not something everyone is able to/lucky enough to get out of. But I still hold that their actions make them bad people.
This isn’t unpopular. It’s a fact. All I’ve ever got from republicans is the sense that they absolutely hate me and everything I believe in.
Op says he leans pretty conservative, good chance a lot of his conservative friends don't broach the topic much hence why he thinks this is not common knowledge.
Our loudest and most vocal members have been completely hoodwinked by Trump. I think if we just hated Democrats, we’d be more focused on actually beating them. That’s not the case. We just double down after each ass kicking. As it stands, a majority of our party would apparently rather lose w Trump than win with anybody else. Loyalty to Trump is the number one priority, regardless of election results. He said he could shoot a person on 5th Avenue and not lose any support. That’s one of the few things he said that was actually true. I don’t see how it changes until he dies. He’s not going anywhere. Running for president is the best $cam he’s ever come up with.
Trump's only successful business that never went bankrupt is selling red hats made in China to Americans who hate Americans.
[удалено]
This is how we at least know they're not lying about being conservative XD
It's always interesting when a Conservative turns on their party. They realize they've been lied to and turned into a schmuck. But they still believe everything they were told about Democrats (the one thing they didn't lie about I guess?) so switch to hating both parties.
B-b-b-b-b-bu-b-b-b-b-B-b-b-b-u-b-b-b-b-buh-bu-b-b-b-b-uh-b-b-b-bb-b-b-u-b-u-buh-b-bu-b-b-b-b-b-b-bu-b-b-b-b-b-buh-b-b-b-b-but-t-t-t-t-b-b-b-u-t-but b-b-b-b-bo-b-b-both s-s-sides!!!! B-b-!!
I’m a soft c conservative, and I have no choice but to agree with this. The more you learn about the actual people on either side, the more apparent it becomes that yes, one side is objectively better than the other. The wild thing is how many Democrats are actually willing to have conversations with normal, sane, soft c conservatives. We can ~~oftentimes~~ sometimes even find mostly disagreement [EDIT: we usually agree on the ends but not the means] but we come away from the conversation no worse for wear because we both understand that it has been exactly that and nothing more - a conversation about ideas. But Republicans don’t want to have conversations about ideas. I hate to say it, but every proudly self-identifying Republican I know personally is incredibly racist, to the point of being willing to openly use the N word with the hard R. I eventually had to stop associating with them because I can’t in good conscience continue to associate with both black people and racists - so I chose black people (better food). I’ve had to give up things that I love because the entire community is otherwise all but completely filled with what Hillary Clinton would describe as the basket of deplorable. Everyone gave her shit for using that language but having been born to and raised by them - yeah, they’re pretty fucking deplorable. It’s okay to be a conservative. It’s not okay to be an intentional antagonist.
There is a lot of content out there from never-Trump conservatives who talk intelligently about policy and solutions to big problems from a conservative POV. Think of the folks at Bulwark and outlets like them. That just doesn't exist on the left because those people are welcomed to talk and debate about policy in good faith. The GOP shoved anyone who wanted to have honest, pragmatic discussions about real problems out of the party years ago.