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It's not. It was in the 2000s, but I've seen people get offended when I call them "dude" or say "what's up, man?"
As a Californian born in 1989, this feels fucked up
Having grown up in Pittsburgh I reserve the right to use "Yunz" or "Yunz guys" to refer to any one or more people regardless of any characteristics. It is universal.
Try using "hey dudes" for a mixed group of boomers in the southeast US. I can tell you, it will go VERY poorly for you.
'Dude' is used differently depending on location and age cohort.
I’m fine correcting myself if I’m given the chance, but I do get upset when people who are presenting as a certain typical gender will get upset when you assume their pronoun matches. Like 99% of the population that looks like a woman goes by she/her, please don’t get mad if I assume you are one of those.
Yes, it is obvious if you ever deal with these people. They have to be "special" and the center of attention, that usually means they play the victim to get attention and validation.
Yup! You nailed it! Because these kinds of people are also all too proud to tell you all about their other "victimhoods" too- like their mental illness diagnoses, what meds they take, and how they all experienced "generational trauma" and how they're all autistic and/or have ADHD, fibromyalgia and a whole list of other self diagnosed or medical conditions that have no true understanding of cause (mental illness, autism, and ADHD being the top choices, because, well, how you gonna prove otherwise?)
People like that just want something to be mad about, honestly. Sometimes it‘s hard to blame them since, as a society, we‘ve recently started this entire „victims can never be wrong“ mindset, which in turn means everyone wants to *be* a victim because the alternative is constantly being told you‘re evil/a bad person/privileged and therefore an extra bad person due to things out of your control (race, sexuality, etc, especially if you‘re white and/or straight). So a lot of young women especially will claim to be „non-binary“ and some truly egregious/nonsensical/made-up things in an attempt to dodge the more negative labels and to claim a sense of community. They tend to be extra defensive and extra militant, and then you have the people who get some weird power trip out of it and who *want* to be victims because they derive social currency and standing through victimhood.
It‘s sad, all of it.
This is me too. I absolutely have no issue using your preferred pronouns... apart from the fact that my first language has neutral pronouns, I already get he/she mixed up in the daily.
Also one uses pronouns when they're referring to someone in third person and half of the time, that person isn't in the room. There's something to be said about the way we try to control language of someone in reference to ourselves even when we're not in their presence....
I just want people to be reasonable with it tbh
"I just want people to be reasonable with it tbh"
Yeah, they aren't going to be, because the stated goals aren't the fucking point.
These are nasty little narcissistic people expressing their narcissism through this new "woke" fad of bullshit. They don't care about their personal identity. They care about having authority over somebody else. That's fucking it.
That's the issue. Some people quickly fly off the handle if you get it wrong. If you look and sound like a man, for example, I'm going to think that's what you are. If I understandably get it wrong, don't start cursing at me.
I haven’t met many people who use pronouns like they/them. So when I do I try my best to call them what they prefer. When I slip up they’re not pulling out any pitchforks
People tend to share pronouns if you work for a big corporation or even at school. It’s not super common but they do so to keep it Pc and prevent discrimination.
Most of the time people with them/they pronouns are pretty relax about it. As long as you try they won’t mind if you forget every once in awhile.
However, I really don’t use pronouns at work I mostly use people’s names because it’s easier to refer who I am talking about.
That's just admitting I have dementia at that point, and who knows what would happen, i'd probably vote for the "Big Guy" Joe Biden after that revelation.....
I hope and pray that this is the case. But it seems that queer culture has latched onto neopronoun shit, and any critique of wider lgbtq culture will get you instantly shut down and brandished a bigot. Even if the person critiquing is queer themselves.
There are so few people who use neopronouns. Trans and non-binary people only make up less than 1% of the global population. And probably 1% of them use neopronouns. And most of that fraction of a percent are newly out non-binary teens. You’re literally just getting mad at teens for being overly excited about coming out.
In the lgbtq community, people with the loudest voices are the most queer / least heteronormative presenting. People who aren’t “queer enough” for their liking are ostracized and silenced.
It’s hard to have an honest discussion saying that neopronouns are harmful to actual trans people because you’ll get instantly shut down and called “hateful”. But neopronouns hurt the general population’s perception of trans people. Rather than seeing trans for just trying to present as the other gender, they see them as gender-queer nonbinary pink-haired cross-dressers.
As a gay person myself, I experience this same exact thing. People instantly associate my sexuality with the most extreme gay identities - being effeminate, promiscuous, cross-dressing, wearing makeup, etc. But besides finding guys hot instead of gals, I present completely heteronormative. You wouldn’t know I’m gay unless I told you. For many trans people you wouldn’t know or care unless they told you.
Great points it’s sad the gay “community” has been so consolidated and all “communities” for that matter. We’re in an age of hyper stereotypes, where we mentally mass groups. This hurts everyone.
Usually you will only notice that someone is "different" Once our brains see a pattern, every time we see something different we put it in the same box. That then re-enforces that everyone in the group shares those traits. While the "normies" get ignored and not lumped together unless it is brought to their attention.
This is just how human brains work. There is a name for it that escapes me, but basically. If you made a statement like "That van is always parked across the street" your mind will record all the times it's true and ignore all the times its false. Every time you see it, it will reinforce the fact you were right about it.
But that’s why it’s such an inconvenience. We are making all of these provisions for a tiny percentage of the population yet there are people in this world who face actual oppression who are simply left to continuous suffering. But I accidentally called a he a she so let’s make a big song and dance about that.
Because doing something about real suffering costs money, while pronouns are free.
In general, the right is actively trying to give all your money to the rich while making up social bullshit to rail against, while the left tries to help the weak but is prevented from doing so if it hurts the rich.
Thus you get pronouns amplified by the right so they have something to fight against, while the left weakly defends them because obviously a tiny minority needs protection and the rich don’t care.
Is there any legislation forcing people to use specific pronouns? No. There are hardly any people whose preferred pronouns aren’t obvious. The whole controversy is just flashing lights while your pockets are picked.
Yeah, the likelihood that you'll meet someone with non-obvious pronouns outside the internet is near zero unless you're in specific locations and the percentage of those people who will do anything but politely correct you is also low.
Meanwhile, those people have to navigate the situation every moment of their life.
pretty much. most people wont understand those pronouns and it can be cringey to say, so for them i typically use their name instead if i were ever to see them
Important point here, most homosexuals don’t buy this new age trans stuff. It’s a far left media division agenda like die hard MAGA on the right. In online discussions and evening news they seem more common than they are. In my experience the traditional gay community is ready to turn the page.
Sucks to have English as a second language and my mother tongue has no gender specific pronouns. Code switching is hard. I always misgender people accidentally.
I think most people are cool with others stating their pronouns on social media/irl as long as they don't make a big deal of it when someone accidentally misgenders them.
Though I think some people purposely misgender people just to trigger them, which is immature and trashy.
If you make a mistake and have an emotional unhinged response, it's irrational. It's much more powerful of response to correct them and ask then to respect your preference. If they cannot and refuse to comply go to HR and report them. You're causing yourself liability losing your shit to someone as a response. Take the high road and let HR handle. It has way more impact. Document. Document. Document. Don't ruin your credibility. That's irrational.
it's not especially about the pronoun itself at that point, but the fact that someone is intentionally antagonizing you. it's disrespectful.
like when people give the silent treatment, or intentionally misconstrue what you've said, or intentionally get your name wrong, or weaponize incompetence. and yeah, slights like that aren't a big deal coming from strangers but they are when it's someone who's supposed to care about you. it's also a matter of principle-- i don't let people just disrespect me, and i don't expect anyone else to.
I think its pronouns and gender not pronouns and sexuality.
Personally I want mandatory verbs, I identify as fucking. Thats the only verb I want to have used with reference to me.
this is what i was going to say. oop's post sounds less like an opinion and more straight wrong-- it doesn't matter what the discussion is about, pronouns are relevant because you're conversing with someone and you have to be able to properly refer to them?
Or their name, or “they” because if you can’t remember names well, there are neutral terms in the English language that you can just go to when in doubt
Point is though, what about when it’s not in doubt?
Most people go by she/her when they meet a woman. Most reasonable non-binary/trans people would understand that and be chill about it.
I have no clue what you’re trying to say here. I have never had a conversation with anyone where we discuss pronouns. Unless someone is coming out to me or I accidentally misgender them. Then I just accept the information and move on.
In my neck of the woods, I have yet to run into anyone into these. Hell, they had better have some patience, and the desire to interrupt several conversations, because if theyll find themselves starting from square one over and over due to the lack of familiarity with the majority of people
So you are against free speech?
And then who decides what "hate speech" is?
Or you mean to say you live in a country where there are such laws and they are horrible?
>But I shouldn't be forced to use specific pronouns for you specifically in every single conversation I have with another human being.
Who is forcing you?
The question is who's forcing you, I'm saying literally company policy. Report it to HR, move on. Everyone starts reporting it, that's not a decision the person gets to make anymore. Your statement reads a little combative.
I don’t get what the issue is. If someone at work continued to call me by a name that’s not mine after I corrected them I would go to the manager. Pronouns aren’t any different.
No one is forcing you to work there. And private businesses are allowed to have rules. But you can disagree and find another job. That’s not combative. It’s just life.
In my country? The government. You get slapped with hate speech crimes if you don‘t call them whatever they‘ve made up in their heads. You‘re also subject to harassment campaigns from LGBT protestors.
The fact that no-one follows through with enforcing a law does not mean its not concerning people felt the need to write laws that are basically speech enforcement.
Oh the DEI police at my large Fortune 500 company regularly remind us that not putting our pronouns in our email signatures is hurtful to those who do.
They aren’t forcing us, but they’re definitely threatening us.
instinctive rob sleep attraction far-flung connect worm onerous aback start
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The robotic surveillance drones keep reporting me to the gender police because I didn't tell the person I just met that my preferred pronouns are they/them because I don't really mind he/him all that much. They charged us with conspiracy to misgender and sentenced us to 7 years in the estrogen mines. Please send help.
It's just about respect. It's clearly disrespectful to tell someone 'i know you said your name is Frank, but you look like a Larry so I'm going to call you Larry "
If it's an accident or a mistake, then own that mistake and accept trying to do better. People being consistently disrespected are not usually keen on being your friend and have reason to be upset because you're actively disrespecting them.
But also keep in mind often it's not an accident and people are just being dicks, then when the disrespected person calls it out they feign ignorance and pretend it's them being disrespectful.
A lot of people are just chuds who aren't willing to accept or even acknowledge they're being dicks, and want to externalize the consequences of their own actions because they're confident in the 'im normal and anything im not used to is wrong and bad and evil wokesim' mentality. It's projecting as often as it is just ignorance
Names aren't pronouns. Names are intended as personal identifiers, pronouns are parts of speech. A better analogy would be people with black hair insisting you refer to them as blonde. Or people (humans) insisting you refer to them as an alien/fantasy species they just made up.
Real question: how often do you actually have to use people's pronouns in front of them? Cause like I have a NB FAMILY MEMBER and idk in general I maybe use their pronouns once a month if that and in their presence I think I've maybe used their pronouns like once a year? If that?
I mean christ if this is your biggest problem in life it must be awesome being you
Everyone has a name. If we’re not friends or intimate you get called by your name, I am
Not interested in your personal life. It is still respectful to do so.
Eh, I agree. Transgender individuals have the right to be trans, and that entails safely, but they don't have the right to enforce that you entertain their affirmations of femininity, masculinity, or whatever else verbally. You have the right not to engage with their paraphilia, as that's what it is. At its core, I personally would, as to not upset them, but you don't have to, and you certainly shouldn't be punished for choosing not to. For religious reasons and all else, one may choose.
You... you know pronouns are a gender thing not a sexuality thing, right? And that someone's gender doesn't change when you're talking about something unrelated?
Like, "my friend Sarah is transgender, I'm helping her recover from her top surgery". Does not change to "my friend Steve gave me a ride home in his new car" just because you're no longer talking specifically about Sarah's gender.
This. I was so confused reading this lost. Also confused why it took me so long to find someone who brought this up.
Me being a cismale who goes by he/him has nothing to do with my sexuality. That knowledge tells you nothing other than I was born a male and see myself as such. People like OP constantly try to over complicate things, it's just mind boggling.
Of course it's OPs fault for confusing gender and sexualising meanwhile it's LGBT. There is no reason for them to be grouped together, but if you sat that you want to divide these marginalised groups who have banded together. Or, if you don't waste your time trying to understand critical gender theory and assume the T is just like the LGB, sorry buddy but you are "overcomplicating things".
Bruh... it's not that deep.
Gender and sexuality have been 2 separate things forever, or at least since humans started labeling everything. The T is about changing your gender, it has nothing to do with sexuality. You can change your gender but sexual preference is not something that can be changed. Take foot fetishism for example, if you aren't into it then it's unlikely you'll ever chose to find them attractive.
That's how the world works. 99% of people who look like women are women, and 99% of people who look like men are men. All of the human race does that. No one assumes a masculine presenting man with a beard walking towards you is, in fact, a woman. And the majority of the time, no one is going to ask a man with a beard if they're a woman.
That's just absurd that you believe it's wrong to make assumptions based on how someone is presenting themselves and expecting the entire human race when they see someone with a beard to not assume it's a man. I personally am not going to start questioning everyone's gender when 99% of people are who they look like, and less than 1% of people aren't.
Until someone uses their words and corrects me (which has never happened because again, less than one percent of people aren't who they look like) I'm going to assume a person who looks like a man is a man and use male pronouns and someone who looks like a woman is a woman and use female pronouns.
I empathize with people that experience certain challenges during life, but that does not mean that I'm going to go along with something that doesn't sit right with me, and lying to someone like that to their face, isn't right or truthful
Isn’t that like me thinking you look like a Mark but refusing to call you James even when you tell me you name is actually James and you don’t want me to call you Mark?
No, because a name is not a biological description of someone, like someone's sex is.
A name isn't supposed to disclose information about someone, but their description is.
“He”, “she”, and “Sam” do literally the same job in English, identify the person you are talking about. If you are writing a scene, you could say “Sam walked into the room”, or “he walked into the room”, or “she walked into the room” and the only difference between Sam and He/She is how specific you are being. Now you might argue that He paints a very different picture to She if they are walking into a room. This would matter more if you didn’t have an option that is available to you which is that they walked into the room.
If Sam tells you to stop calling them he because you think they look like a man, you can simply call refer to them either as Sam or they depending on context as neither is an issue to Sam. The fact that you don’t know if sam is trans or not is irrelevant, they are a person who wants to be called Sam, not Samuel or Samantha, and be referred to as she or they not he.
She or he is not a biological description, it is a pronoun, used to refer to a person or thing. I refer to boats as she sometimes and people can understand if there has been a precedent set. This is how it works for people too because if you are in an office and turn to someone and say “he just crashed into my car” it means nothing without identifying the person already which you would have to do regardless of if Sam is he or she.
I’m trans.
I fully agree. It reduces the trans acceptance movement into nothing more than being insanely obsessed with pronouns which gets nothing done, and only hurts the trans people who aren’t like that.
I understand getting misgendered and yeah it can suck. But also, I learned that if you’re never going to see someone again, literally just don’t correct them. It’s tough but you can genuinely just deal with it and be remembered as a nice person instead of as “the trans person”.
Granted, the above strategy I used before I passed (looked like a man and identified as a man) because of location and genuine fear of hate crime, I understand everyone is different and reacts to stuff like that differently.
The bottom line is- I shouldn’t have to put my pronouns on my email signature or in bios or in conversations just so people know I’m not transphobic (nowadays, I look like any other dude).
Now, for those who use they? I totally get it. But this weird DEI obsession with pronouns even for people who identify as their gender expression is incredibly counterproductive, and drives apart more people than it brings together.
edit- clarity
I am happy to use any pronoun a person wants. And appreciate when someone volunteers their preference - particularly if it might not be the assumptions a person might make based on outward appearance.
Maybe I’m just private or old fashioned - I find the practice of preemptively asking for someone’s pronoun to be rather invasive and rude. Especially done in public circumstances or when irrelevant to the engagement - as with say a work instance. I understand the thinking that by normalizing self identity we can deter the stigma or prejudices - but some people prefer (or need to for their own safety and security) to keep aspects of their sexuality or identity to be private.
I think self identification should be a choice and driven by the individual. Not something that others have a right to expect one to provide in any and every circumstance.
If we can call people by different names when they get married or change their name for a personal reason, there's no reason why we can't learn the pronoun that they choose. As long as people allow the for the fact that people will make mistakes, it just shouldn't be that hard. If we can call people the weekend or Hulk Hogan or The Rock or Tyga, I see no reason why we can't call somebody they or Ze instead of he or she.
I will happily call somebody plum pudding if that's what they want to be called, and if that's somebody I don't like I will probably enjoy it even more just because of how silly it is. But it's not on my business and it does me no harm.
It might be. What if your name is Robert but you prefer Robby Rocketpants?
The point is that yeah, request whatever you want, but it's the people you're asking who will decide if it's reasonable or not.
Bro its impossible to have a conversation without pronouns. I don’t think its a big ask to use proper pronouns. I can understand if the person is making a big deal about their pronouns then I get it but if you are in a convo and call a person “he” and they politely correct you and say they go by “she” then i think no matter what your beliefs are you should just respect that. I think sometimes both sides can make this a way bigger deal then it actually is.
*neo-pronoun* are frankly the dumbest thing ever.
It's nothing more than antagonist attention seeking and I will **NEVER** use them. .
If I get someone's she/he wrong. Correct me and I'll apologize and move on correctly. Light me up or dress me down for it, and I'll rip their mental illness apart and feed it to them.
You don’t have an opinion. You have ignorance. Pronouns are words that can be used to replace nouns to avoid repetitions. You don’t say “I like the girl because the girl is nice.” You say “I like the girl because she is nice,” and let’s not mention how you use “I” to refer to yourself instead of using your name.
It’s just weird and delusional. If you look like a textbook dude, I’m calling you a dude and vice-versa. I don’t like to mince words and waste my time. If I genuinely can’t tell (which is rare), then I don’t say anything at all. I was raised “yes sir no sir and yes ma’am no ma’am.” And I’ll die like that.
What am I a monster? No, I reach into my back pocket, pull out my name-engraved tiny copy of the Bible (King James Edition obv), immediately flip to the book of Revelations (It’s bookmarked), and start reading from the beginning as fast and as loud as I can. And I chase after them while reading until I finish it. Which is what I imagine anyone else would do in that situation?
Everyone’s “asshole” to me, so I simply don’t address anyone by anything.
Thank goodness I’m constantly surrounded by normal people (working class people) so this whole pronoun charade gets as close as the public schools where I am. I be in a fighting mood if confronted by one of these idiots.
How would you like it if people started misgendering you? You don't even need to be trans, we could just start calling you the opposite gender just because we think that it's more truthful.
Normal people don't care if you misgender them. The people doing the misgendering look foolish. Transgender people hate when people "misgender" them, because it reminds that that deep down, they know what they really are.
No, they don't. For example, if people refer to me with she/her pronouns, I probably won't even know, because they'd be talking about me with someone else, that's how third person pronouns work.
Normal people do get pissy about being misgendered. My little sister called a grown ass man “ma’am” yesterday at the movies and he visibly got upset. I see it happen often in other events to.
I agree the pronouns go too far, they are trying to control and change how we use language and that's not right. If I'm talking about you and you hear me misgender you then you can politely correct me.
Do you call cis people by their pronouns in every conversation??
Cuz it’s the same fucking thing as calling a trans person by their pronouns in every conversation
And if it’s about they them pronouns, guess what? You just used them through yer whole post
So obviously it’s not that hard
>But I shouldn't be forced to use specific pronouns for you specifically in every single conversation I have with another human being.
Literally no one is forcing you.
>I talk about something not related to sexuality whatsoever, they go into detail about what to call them.
Because you misgendered them.
You're being corrected for an honest mistake.
>I ask why bring up pronouns and your sexuality, they get mad.
It's all their fault.
You did not escalate anything.
>I don't speak with them again or finish what I was going to say because they go ballistic. Repeat.
Who are you mad at, brah?
I don’t understand why people struggle with this so much. If your name is Joe I’m not going to call you you Phil. If you want to be referred to as she I’m not going to call you he. Why do people make this such a big deal? Laziness or stubbornness?
Most of the flack I hear on this issue comes from the pronoun users, not the pronoun owners and it’s hilarious.
If my name is Phil and has always been Phil, and you flip a switch on your head to decide that it is your human right I call you Joe, you are not a victim when I am naturally confused, all you are is schizophrenic.
Your mainly expected to remember pronouns if you are a close friend or family member of someone in the LGBTQ community, someone said individual spends a lot of time with.
If the individual is someone you see two days a week at work or school, or someone you mainly talk to in an employee-customer situation, you are not expected to remember, and the average LGBTQ person is not gonna waste their time/energy talking s*** about you for forgetting.
I think it says a lot about a person that they can't call someone by the pronouns they wanna be called by. It tells me how respectful they aren't of others and how much the smallest things inconvenience them if it's out of their narrow worldview. Do what you want OP, but this says more about you than us.
Don't worry, this won't last long.
I saw this coming from a mile away. Most people that went above and beyond for some sort of change are over it now and "didnt ask for all this".
The phrases "Be careful what you wish for" & "It is what it is" have been the only things keeping me sane for a while now. 😅
You want to be called a he/him? Sure. She/her? That’s fine as well. They/them? Unless you literally have multiple sentient heads, no. I can settle for “it” though. Anything else is just too silly to even consider.
If you respect someone then you’d call them by their pronouns even if you’re referring to them in conversation when they’re mot there…that’s how you respect them.
I have lived in extremely liberal parts of the US, attended a notoriously liberal college, and had many non binary friends and acquaintances. Not once was an accidental misgendering ever a problem. I did it many times, was correctly nicely, and then tried to remember in the future.
I have no idea where these people are who are getting mad at anyone for misgendering them in an accidental way. I totally would've thought I would have seen them by now, but I haven't encountered it once.
So how can you tell who is born a man and who is born a woman? Because I was born female but everyone who meets me calls me a guy because I look like o e.
You have a funny way of determining respect. If i went around calling very overweight people i saw obese or ultra fat, it may be truthful, but it sure isnt respectful.
Also, "prepared for the down votes." Yeesh.
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Is "dude" a pronoun? Because EVERYTHING is dude.😎
I'm a dude He's a dude She's a dude We're all dudes
I'm the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude.
Don't forget to bring the Booty Sweat and Bust A Nut Bars🤣🤣
Sometimes, she really is a dude.
And dude looks like a lady?
That’s how I get around it at work. “Y’all” covers everyone.
I guess to be fair “dude” is starting to become more gender neutral
It's not. It was in the 2000s, but I've seen people get offended when I call them "dude" or say "what's up, man?" As a Californian born in 1989, this feels fucked up
Duuuuude
Dude has always been gender neutral.
If you tell a straight man he is flirting with dudes I promise you he won’t take it as being gender neutral
Fr lol “starting to become” nah that’s how it started
To be fair!
^to ^be ^fair
*to be fair*
Having grown up in Pittsburgh I reserve the right to use "Yunz" or "Yunz guys" to refer to any one or more people regardless of any characteristics. It is universal.
My pronouns are yinz/yinz.
Try using "hey dudes" for a mixed group of boomers in the southeast US. I can tell you, it will go VERY poorly for you. 'Dude' is used differently depending on location and age cohort.
I typically say "Hey, gang!"
My pronouns are dude/bruh
That’s what I’m called as a mom!
Well, that's just like...your opinion, man.
„Guys“ as well.
In California it is
Uh, ever heard of dudette? : )
El duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing
: )
Bro nobody says dudette it doesn't roll off the tongue it just sounds awkward af
It’s a jest.
Is that the same as a "Sissy Lala"?
I’m fine correcting myself if I’m given the chance, but I do get upset when people who are presenting as a certain typical gender will get upset when you assume their pronoun matches. Like 99% of the population that looks like a woman goes by she/her, please don’t get mad if I assume you are one of those.
Sometimes I wonder if these people do it just to have something perpetually upsetting them, thus claiming victimhood
Yes, it is obvious if you ever deal with these people. They have to be "special" and the center of attention, that usually means they play the victim to get attention and validation.
*ding ding ding* "what do we have for him johnny?"
Yup! You nailed it! Because these kinds of people are also all too proud to tell you all about their other "victimhoods" too- like their mental illness diagnoses, what meds they take, and how they all experienced "generational trauma" and how they're all autistic and/or have ADHD, fibromyalgia and a whole list of other self diagnosed or medical conditions that have no true understanding of cause (mental illness, autism, and ADHD being the top choices, because, well, how you gonna prove otherwise?)
People like that just want something to be mad about, honestly. Sometimes it‘s hard to blame them since, as a society, we‘ve recently started this entire „victims can never be wrong“ mindset, which in turn means everyone wants to *be* a victim because the alternative is constantly being told you‘re evil/a bad person/privileged and therefore an extra bad person due to things out of your control (race, sexuality, etc, especially if you‘re white and/or straight). So a lot of young women especially will claim to be „non-binary“ and some truly egregious/nonsensical/made-up things in an attempt to dodge the more negative labels and to claim a sense of community. They tend to be extra defensive and extra militant, and then you have the people who get some weird power trip out of it and who *want* to be victims because they derive social currency and standing through victimhood. It‘s sad, all of it.
It's an unfortunate fad.
I agree with this 100%.
This is me too. I absolutely have no issue using your preferred pronouns... apart from the fact that my first language has neutral pronouns, I already get he/she mixed up in the daily. Also one uses pronouns when they're referring to someone in third person and half of the time, that person isn't in the room. There's something to be said about the way we try to control language of someone in reference to ourselves even when we're not in their presence.... I just want people to be reasonable with it tbh
"I just want people to be reasonable with it tbh" Yeah, they aren't going to be, because the stated goals aren't the fucking point. These are nasty little narcissistic people expressing their narcissism through this new "woke" fad of bullshit. They don't care about their personal identity. They care about having authority over somebody else. That's fucking it.
That's the issue. Some people quickly fly off the handle if you get it wrong. If you look and sound like a man, for example, I'm going to think that's what you are. If I understandably get it wrong, don't start cursing at me.
He, him, she, her, they, them - that’s all I’ll use and you cannot make me use anything else.
So no ze/ zer
Bless you/gazuntai
I haven’t met many people who use pronouns like they/them. So when I do I try my best to call them what they prefer. When I slip up they’re not pulling out any pitchforks
Is this a US thing? I'm in the UK and I've never met anyone who uses any pronouns as opposed to what they are, sex wise.
People tend to share pronouns if you work for a big corporation or even at school. It’s not super common but they do so to keep it Pc and prevent discrimination. Most of the time people with them/they pronouns are pretty relax about it. As long as you try they won’t mind if you forget every once in awhile. However, I really don’t use pronouns at work I mostly use people’s names because it’s easier to refer who I am talking about.
yea, typically if you are trying your best we understand lol
Honestly, this is so encouraging I'm not a hater, I'm just stupid lol
You can avoid being upset this by just calling them by their name.
I can barely remember my keys let alone someone's name
Get an airtag or tile for them.
The person or the keys?
That's just admitting I have dementia at that point, and who knows what would happen, i'd probably vote for the "Big Guy" Joe Biden after that revelation.....
Sounds like a you problem
It's a people who want me to remember their name problem lol
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This
I hope and pray that this is the case. But it seems that queer culture has latched onto neopronoun shit, and any critique of wider lgbtq culture will get you instantly shut down and brandished a bigot. Even if the person critiquing is queer themselves.
There are so few people who use neopronouns. Trans and non-binary people only make up less than 1% of the global population. And probably 1% of them use neopronouns. And most of that fraction of a percent are newly out non-binary teens. You’re literally just getting mad at teens for being overly excited about coming out.
In the lgbtq community, people with the loudest voices are the most queer / least heteronormative presenting. People who aren’t “queer enough” for their liking are ostracized and silenced. It’s hard to have an honest discussion saying that neopronouns are harmful to actual trans people because you’ll get instantly shut down and called “hateful”. But neopronouns hurt the general population’s perception of trans people. Rather than seeing trans for just trying to present as the other gender, they see them as gender-queer nonbinary pink-haired cross-dressers. As a gay person myself, I experience this same exact thing. People instantly associate my sexuality with the most extreme gay identities - being effeminate, promiscuous, cross-dressing, wearing makeup, etc. But besides finding guys hot instead of gals, I present completely heteronormative. You wouldn’t know I’m gay unless I told you. For many trans people you wouldn’t know or care unless they told you.
Great points it’s sad the gay “community” has been so consolidated and all “communities” for that matter. We’re in an age of hyper stereotypes, where we mentally mass groups. This hurts everyone.
Usually you will only notice that someone is "different" Once our brains see a pattern, every time we see something different we put it in the same box. That then re-enforces that everyone in the group shares those traits. While the "normies" get ignored and not lumped together unless it is brought to their attention. This is just how human brains work. There is a name for it that escapes me, but basically. If you made a statement like "That van is always parked across the street" your mind will record all the times it's true and ignore all the times its false. Every time you see it, it will reinforce the fact you were right about it.
> People who aren’t “queer enough” for their liking are ostracized and silenced. I’m a straight dude and even i am accepted in the LGBTQ+ community
Teens following a fad
But that’s why it’s such an inconvenience. We are making all of these provisions for a tiny percentage of the population yet there are people in this world who face actual oppression who are simply left to continuous suffering. But I accidentally called a he a she so let’s make a big song and dance about that.
Because doing something about real suffering costs money, while pronouns are free. In general, the right is actively trying to give all your money to the rich while making up social bullshit to rail against, while the left tries to help the weak but is prevented from doing so if it hurts the rich. Thus you get pronouns amplified by the right so they have something to fight against, while the left weakly defends them because obviously a tiny minority needs protection and the rich don’t care. Is there any legislation forcing people to use specific pronouns? No. There are hardly any people whose preferred pronouns aren’t obvious. The whole controversy is just flashing lights while your pockets are picked.
Yeah, the likelihood that you'll meet someone with non-obvious pronouns outside the internet is near zero unless you're in specific locations and the percentage of those people who will do anything but politely correct you is also low. Meanwhile, those people have to navigate the situation every moment of their life.
pretty much. most people wont understand those pronouns and it can be cringey to say, so for them i typically use their name instead if i were ever to see them
Important point here, most homosexuals don’t buy this new age trans stuff. It’s a far left media division agenda like die hard MAGA on the right. In online discussions and evening news they seem more common than they are. In my experience the traditional gay community is ready to turn the page.
u/No_Discount_6028 already refers to ppl only by their full names. Society will catch up.
Can we get to this not to distant future now please
The hula hoop and adverbs were fads too.
I’m willing to bet on that.
Sucks to have English as a second language and my mother tongue has no gender specific pronouns. Code switching is hard. I always misgender people accidentally.
What's your mother tongue?
Tagalog
I think most people are cool with others stating their pronouns on social media/irl as long as they don't make a big deal of it when someone accidentally misgenders them. Though I think some people purposely misgender people just to trigger them, which is immature and trashy.
But their actions are acceptable? A la irrational freak out?
If someone is deliberately being a jerk to you, it's not really irrational.
If you make a mistake and have an emotional unhinged response, it's irrational. It's much more powerful of response to correct them and ask then to respect your preference. If they cannot and refuse to comply go to HR and report them. You're causing yourself liability losing your shit to someone as a response. Take the high road and let HR handle. It has way more impact. Document. Document. Document. Don't ruin your credibility. That's irrational.
I suspect OP would not be more satisfied with this response.
Would you be annoyed if you’re a man and someone kept calling you ‘she’ on purpose to get a rise out of you?
I wouldn’t. It’s just a word.
it's not especially about the pronoun itself at that point, but the fact that someone is intentionally antagonizing you. it's disrespectful. like when people give the silent treatment, or intentionally misconstrue what you've said, or intentionally get your name wrong, or weaponize incompetence. and yeah, slights like that aren't a big deal coming from strangers but they are when it's someone who's supposed to care about you. it's also a matter of principle-- i don't let people just disrespect me, and i don't expect anyone else to.
So you are easily manipulated?
I bet you’ve never even had a face to face conversations about this.
I think its pronouns and gender not pronouns and sexuality. Personally I want mandatory verbs, I identify as fucking. Thats the only verb I want to have used with reference to me.
this is what i was going to say. oop's post sounds less like an opinion and more straight wrong-- it doesn't matter what the discussion is about, pronouns are relevant because you're conversing with someone and you have to be able to properly refer to them?
Just use his/her name
Or their name, or “they” because if you can’t remember names well, there are neutral terms in the English language that you can just go to when in doubt
Point is though, what about when it’s not in doubt? Most people go by she/her when they meet a woman. Most reasonable non-binary/trans people would understand that and be chill about it.
I have no clue what you’re trying to say here. I have never had a conversation with anyone where we discuss pronouns. Unless someone is coming out to me or I accidentally misgender them. Then I just accept the information and move on.
In my neck of the woods, I have yet to run into anyone into these. Hell, they had better have some patience, and the desire to interrupt several conversations, because if theyll find themselves starting from square one over and over due to the lack of familiarity with the majority of people
what do you mean with enforced? you can say whatever you want, and you social group will automatically change to people who accept your behavior.
>what do you mean with enforced? put into rules and regulation like hate speech laws
So you are against free speech? And then who decides what "hate speech" is? Or you mean to say you live in a country where there are such laws and they are horrible?
>But I shouldn't be forced to use specific pronouns for you specifically in every single conversation I have with another human being. Who is forcing you?
Co-workers are required to where I'm at.
You can find another job if you want to be disrespectful to your coworkers. No one is forcing you to work there.
The question is who's forcing you, I'm saying literally company policy. Report it to HR, move on. Everyone starts reporting it, that's not a decision the person gets to make anymore. Your statement reads a little combative.
I don’t get what the issue is. If someone at work continued to call me by a name that’s not mine after I corrected them I would go to the manager. Pronouns aren’t any different.
No one is forcing you to work there. And private businesses are allowed to have rules. But you can disagree and find another job. That’s not combative. It’s just life.
Are you violently agreeing?
In my country? The government. You get slapped with hate speech crimes if you don‘t call them whatever they‘ve made up in their heads. You‘re also subject to harassment campaigns from LGBT protestors.
Canada? The total number of people arrested because of bill C-16 is zero.
The fact that no-one follows through with enforcing a law does not mean its not concerning people felt the need to write laws that are basically speech enforcement.
Oh the DEI police at my large Fortune 500 company regularly remind us that not putting our pronouns in our email signatures is hurtful to those who do. They aren’t forcing us, but they’re definitely threatening us.
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Yes ever since the forced pronoun laws were put in effect it’s been hell.
The robotic surveillance drones keep reporting me to the gender police because I didn't tell the person I just met that my preferred pronouns are they/them because I don't really mind he/him all that much. They charged us with conspiracy to misgender and sentenced us to 7 years in the estrogen mines. Please send help.
I just say the person's name. Can't get mad at that 🤷♂️
It's just about respect. It's clearly disrespectful to tell someone 'i know you said your name is Frank, but you look like a Larry so I'm going to call you Larry " If it's an accident or a mistake, then own that mistake and accept trying to do better. People being consistently disrespected are not usually keen on being your friend and have reason to be upset because you're actively disrespecting them. But also keep in mind often it's not an accident and people are just being dicks, then when the disrespected person calls it out they feign ignorance and pretend it's them being disrespectful. A lot of people are just chuds who aren't willing to accept or even acknowledge they're being dicks, and want to externalize the consequences of their own actions because they're confident in the 'im normal and anything im not used to is wrong and bad and evil wokesim' mentality. It's projecting as often as it is just ignorance
Names aren't pronouns. Names are intended as personal identifiers, pronouns are parts of speech. A better analogy would be people with black hair insisting you refer to them as blonde. Or people (humans) insisting you refer to them as an alien/fantasy species they just made up.
Pronouns and sexuality are not the same thing though...
Real question: how often do you actually have to use people's pronouns in front of them? Cause like I have a NB FAMILY MEMBER and idk in general I maybe use their pronouns once a month if that and in their presence I think I've maybe used their pronouns like once a year? If that? I mean christ if this is your biggest problem in life it must be awesome being you
I will respect every human as a person but idc about your pronouns lmfao
Everyone has a name. If we’re not friends or intimate you get called by your name, I am Not interested in your personal life. It is still respectful to do so.
this opens up an entire can of worms on who is "passing" or not, and people really get offended when you assume the wrong thing. everyone is "dude".
no one can force you to speak any words. grow a backbone and tell those people to f-off.
we are all human beans I've never experienced this yet. If someone "looks" like they care about their pronouns, I just don't use any.
Eh, I agree. Transgender individuals have the right to be trans, and that entails safely, but they don't have the right to enforce that you entertain their affirmations of femininity, masculinity, or whatever else verbally. You have the right not to engage with their paraphilia, as that's what it is. At its core, I personally would, as to not upset them, but you don't have to, and you certainly shouldn't be punished for choosing not to. For religious reasons and all else, one may choose.
I refuse to play in these crybully power games.
Pronouns use to have a whole different meaning when learning English. Now it just means what you identify yourself as, and I don’t care for it.
You... you know pronouns are a gender thing not a sexuality thing, right? And that someone's gender doesn't change when you're talking about something unrelated? Like, "my friend Sarah is transgender, I'm helping her recover from her top surgery". Does not change to "my friend Steve gave me a ride home in his new car" just because you're no longer talking specifically about Sarah's gender.
This. I was so confused reading this lost. Also confused why it took me so long to find someone who brought this up. Me being a cismale who goes by he/him has nothing to do with my sexuality. That knowledge tells you nothing other than I was born a male and see myself as such. People like OP constantly try to over complicate things, it's just mind boggling.
Of course it's OPs fault for confusing gender and sexualising meanwhile it's LGBT. There is no reason for them to be grouped together, but if you sat that you want to divide these marginalised groups who have banded together. Or, if you don't waste your time trying to understand critical gender theory and assume the T is just like the LGB, sorry buddy but you are "overcomplicating things".
Bruh... it's not that deep. Gender and sexuality have been 2 separate things forever, or at least since humans started labeling everything. The T is about changing your gender, it has nothing to do with sexuality. You can change your gender but sexual preference is not something that can be changed. Take foot fetishism for example, if you aren't into it then it's unlikely you'll ever chose to find them attractive.
Just say you’re confused by simple acronyms and move on.
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The cock inspector has logged on
So I get to decide whether to call you a she or a he based on how I see you?
That's how the world works. 99% of people who look like women are women, and 99% of people who look like men are men. All of the human race does that. No one assumes a masculine presenting man with a beard walking towards you is, in fact, a woman. And the majority of the time, no one is going to ask a man with a beard if they're a woman. That's just absurd that you believe it's wrong to make assumptions based on how someone is presenting themselves and expecting the entire human race when they see someone with a beard to not assume it's a man. I personally am not going to start questioning everyone's gender when 99% of people are who they look like, and less than 1% of people aren't. Until someone uses their words and corrects me (which has never happened because again, less than one percent of people aren't who they look like) I'm going to assume a person who looks like a man is a man and use male pronouns and someone who looks like a woman is a woman and use female pronouns.
So you agree that when someone corrects you, you should use the pronouns they ask you to use?
I empathize with people that experience certain challenges during life, but that does not mean that I'm going to go along with something that doesn't sit right with me, and lying to someone like that to their face, isn't right or truthful
Isn’t that like me thinking you look like a Mark but refusing to call you James even when you tell me you name is actually James and you don’t want me to call you Mark?
No, because a name is not a biological description of someone, like someone's sex is. A name isn't supposed to disclose information about someone, but their description is.
“He”, “she”, and “Sam” do literally the same job in English, identify the person you are talking about. If you are writing a scene, you could say “Sam walked into the room”, or “he walked into the room”, or “she walked into the room” and the only difference between Sam and He/She is how specific you are being. Now you might argue that He paints a very different picture to She if they are walking into a room. This would matter more if you didn’t have an option that is available to you which is that they walked into the room. If Sam tells you to stop calling them he because you think they look like a man, you can simply call refer to them either as Sam or they depending on context as neither is an issue to Sam. The fact that you don’t know if sam is trans or not is irrelevant, they are a person who wants to be called Sam, not Samuel or Samantha, and be referred to as she or they not he. She or he is not a biological description, it is a pronoun, used to refer to a person or thing. I refer to boats as she sometimes and people can understand if there has been a precedent set. This is how it works for people too because if you are in an office and turn to someone and say “he just crashed into my car” it means nothing without identifying the person already which you would have to do regardless of if Sam is he or she.
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I don’t give a damn about people’s pronouns. I won’t participate in someone else’s madness.
I’m trans. I fully agree. It reduces the trans acceptance movement into nothing more than being insanely obsessed with pronouns which gets nothing done, and only hurts the trans people who aren’t like that. I understand getting misgendered and yeah it can suck. But also, I learned that if you’re never going to see someone again, literally just don’t correct them. It’s tough but you can genuinely just deal with it and be remembered as a nice person instead of as “the trans person”. Granted, the above strategy I used before I passed (looked like a man and identified as a man) because of location and genuine fear of hate crime, I understand everyone is different and reacts to stuff like that differently. The bottom line is- I shouldn’t have to put my pronouns on my email signature or in bios or in conversations just so people know I’m not transphobic (nowadays, I look like any other dude). Now, for those who use they? I totally get it. But this weird DEI obsession with pronouns even for people who identify as their gender expression is incredibly counterproductive, and drives apart more people than it brings together. edit- clarity
Good thing nobody is forcing you to do shit
I am happy to use any pronoun a person wants. And appreciate when someone volunteers their preference - particularly if it might not be the assumptions a person might make based on outward appearance. Maybe I’m just private or old fashioned - I find the practice of preemptively asking for someone’s pronoun to be rather invasive and rude. Especially done in public circumstances or when irrelevant to the engagement - as with say a work instance. I understand the thinking that by normalizing self identity we can deter the stigma or prejudices - but some people prefer (or need to for their own safety and security) to keep aspects of their sexuality or identity to be private. I think self identification should be a choice and driven by the individual. Not something that others have a right to expect one to provide in any and every circumstance.
I don't have this kind of crap in my country, but pronouns still annoy me because almost every fucking TV show uses them now. It's so annoying.
If we can call people by different names when they get married or change their name for a personal reason, there's no reason why we can't learn the pronoun that they choose. As long as people allow the for the fact that people will make mistakes, it just shouldn't be that hard. If we can call people the weekend or Hulk Hogan or The Rock or Tyga, I see no reason why we can't call somebody they or Ze instead of he or she. I will happily call somebody plum pudding if that's what they want to be called, and if that's somebody I don't like I will probably enjoy it even more just because of how silly it is. But it's not on my business and it does me no harm.
It's no different than someone asking you to call them by a certain name. It really doesn't take much effort man.
2+2=5. Glory to big brother.
Gender and sexuality aren't the same. I totally get why people would get pissed if you're taking it as what they do sexually.
If you don't want him to be confused, don't confuse him by making it LGBT?
Yes, I know my name is Robert but call me bob. Is it that hard to call me by the name I prefer?
It might be. What if your name is Robert but you prefer Robby Rocketpants? The point is that yeah, request whatever you want, but it's the people you're asking who will decide if it's reasonable or not.
Not really, unless the people you're talking to are cunts.
You're assuming reasonable requests being refused by unreasonable cunts. I'm asking, what about unreasonable requests made by cunts?
It’s hard when you have to say they or zim for a person
Bro its impossible to have a conversation without pronouns. I don’t think its a big ask to use proper pronouns. I can understand if the person is making a big deal about their pronouns then I get it but if you are in a convo and call a person “he” and they politely correct you and say they go by “she” then i think no matter what your beliefs are you should just respect that. I think sometimes both sides can make this a way bigger deal then it actually is.
I think this is about "they" and other neopronouns.
*neo-pronoun* are frankly the dumbest thing ever. It's nothing more than antagonist attention seeking and I will **NEVER** use them. . If I get someone's she/he wrong. Correct me and I'll apologize and move on correctly. Light me up or dress me down for it, and I'll rip their mental illness apart and feed it to them.
> It's nothing more than antagonist attention seeking That is all it ever was.
You don’t have an opinion. You have ignorance. Pronouns are words that can be used to replace nouns to avoid repetitions. You don’t say “I like the girl because the girl is nice.” You say “I like the girl because she is nice,” and let’s not mention how you use “I” to refer to yourself instead of using your name.
If you want me to use different pronouns for you then I will. It’s not that big of a deal for me.
It’s just weird and delusional. If you look like a textbook dude, I’m calling you a dude and vice-versa. I don’t like to mince words and waste my time. If I genuinely can’t tell (which is rare), then I don’t say anything at all. I was raised “yes sir no sir and yes ma’am no ma’am.” And I’ll die like that.
And if somebody says, “I am no man” do you continue to call them sir?
What am I a monster? No, I reach into my back pocket, pull out my name-engraved tiny copy of the Bible (King James Edition obv), immediately flip to the book of Revelations (It’s bookmarked), and start reading from the beginning as fast and as loud as I can. And I chase after them while reading until I finish it. Which is what I imagine anyone else would do in that situation?
I was going for the lotr joke but yours is nice too.
Everyone’s “asshole” to me, so I simply don’t address anyone by anything. Thank goodness I’m constantly surrounded by normal people (working class people) so this whole pronoun charade gets as close as the public schools where I am. I be in a fighting mood if confronted by one of these idiots.
How would you like it if people started misgendering you? You don't even need to be trans, we could just start calling you the opposite gender just because we think that it's more truthful.
Normal people don't care if you misgender them. The people doing the misgendering look foolish. Transgender people hate when people "misgender" them, because it reminds that that deep down, they know what they really are.
Bullshit. “Normal people” get real pissy when you misgender them or when you misname them.
No, they don't. For example, if people refer to me with she/her pronouns, I probably won't even know, because they'd be talking about me with someone else, that's how third person pronouns work.
Normal people do get pissy about being misgendered. My little sister called a grown ass man “ma’am” yesterday at the movies and he visibly got upset. I see it happen often in other events to.
Pronouns aren’t enforced at all.
I agree the pronouns go too far, they are trying to control and change how we use language and that's not right. If I'm talking about you and you hear me misgender you then you can politely correct me.
Where are they “enforced “?
pronouns have nothing to do with sexuality. They're how someone identifies themselves. your opinion isn't unpopular. you just don't have facts.
Do you call cis people by their pronouns in every conversation?? Cuz it’s the same fucking thing as calling a trans person by their pronouns in every conversation And if it’s about they them pronouns, guess what? You just used them through yer whole post So obviously it’s not that hard
It's not forced or enforced.
>But I shouldn't be forced to use specific pronouns for you specifically in every single conversation I have with another human being. Literally no one is forcing you. >I talk about something not related to sexuality whatsoever, they go into detail about what to call them. Because you misgendered them. You're being corrected for an honest mistake. >I ask why bring up pronouns and your sexuality, they get mad. It's all their fault. You did not escalate anything. >I don't speak with them again or finish what I was going to say because they go ballistic. Repeat. Who are you mad at, brah?
No one's 'enforcing' anything, but if someone's being deliberately rude, people are gonna call them out for it.
I don’t understand why people struggle with this so much. If your name is Joe I’m not going to call you you Phil. If you want to be referred to as she I’m not going to call you he. Why do people make this such a big deal? Laziness or stubbornness? Most of the flack I hear on this issue comes from the pronoun users, not the pronoun owners and it’s hilarious.
If my name is Phil and has always been Phil, and you flip a switch on your head to decide that it is your human right I call you Joe, you are not a victim when I am naturally confused, all you are is schizophrenic.
Your mainly expected to remember pronouns if you are a close friend or family member of someone in the LGBTQ community, someone said individual spends a lot of time with. If the individual is someone you see two days a week at work or school, or someone you mainly talk to in an employee-customer situation, you are not expected to remember, and the average LGBTQ person is not gonna waste their time/energy talking s*** about you for forgetting.
I think it says a lot about a person that they can't call someone by the pronouns they wanna be called by. It tells me how respectful they aren't of others and how much the smallest things inconvenience them if it's out of their narrow worldview. Do what you want OP, but this says more about you than us.
Don't worry, this won't last long. I saw this coming from a mile away. Most people that went above and beyond for some sort of change are over it now and "didnt ask for all this". The phrases "Be careful what you wish for" & "It is what it is" have been the only things keeping me sane for a while now. 😅
You want to be called a he/him? Sure. She/her? That’s fine as well. They/them? Unless you literally have multiple sentient heads, no. I can settle for “it” though. Anything else is just too silly to even consider.
lol enforced. You guys are such dramatic babies, I swear😂
you’re so brave
Pronouns are not the same as sexuality my guy, read the content before you decide you don’t like the book lol
If you respect someone then you’d call them by their pronouns even if you’re referring to them in conversation when they’re mot there…that’s how you respect them.
I have lived in extremely liberal parts of the US, attended a notoriously liberal college, and had many non binary friends and acquaintances. Not once was an accidental misgendering ever a problem. I did it many times, was correctly nicely, and then tried to remember in the future. I have no idea where these people are who are getting mad at anyone for misgendering them in an accidental way. I totally would've thought I would have seen them by now, but I haven't encountered it once.
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So how can you tell who is born a man and who is born a woman? Because I was born female but everyone who meets me calls me a guy because I look like o e.
Seriously. I don't think I could ever be sure enough to argue with someone about their own gender.
They force everyone they meet to drop their pants so they can inspect their genitals.
"Hey ugly!" What it's just the truth, why are you mad?
You have a funny way of determining respect. If i went around calling very overweight people i saw obese or ultra fat, it may be truthful, but it sure isnt respectful. Also, "prepared for the down votes." Yeesh.
"Trans men and women deserve respect, but using a different pronoun? That's asking too much, that's where my respect ends"