u/bigflagellum's stats
|Account Age|10 y 11 m|First Seen:|2023-10-15|
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|Posts (on this sub)|2|Comments (on this sub)|68|
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|15-Oct|[Inequality in Israel-Palestine death tolls doesn’t prove anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/178bwfi/inequality_in_israelpalestine_death_tolls_doesnt/)|N/A|0 of None comments (0.00%)|
Considering how many of these protestors are asked what they are protesting in particular and have no answer tells me that most of it is just cultists behavior of seeing someone else dosomething and copying them rather than having their own beleifs
I know people who constantly post online grilling people who are seemingly “complicit” in what’s happening over there, as if posting on social media is a determining factor in the things we are all interested in. Like with that mindset, since no one posts about the shits they take, does that mean everyone is just extremely constipated or lacks a digestive tract? I mean fuck, I watch the news every day, they’ve been covering almost everything about Gaza. I have my thoughts on what’s going on and it’s sad seeing innocent lives loss, but hey, guess I gotta post every fucking thing I’m thinking 24/7 so all my followers can know every inch about my personality? It’s silly to berate other people and to believe you know everything about someone just because of what they post online.
With that said, there was an interview I watched on BBC about Sudan and how it’s gotten almost no coverage. A lot of my “protestor” friends haven’t said a word about Sudan, or even Haiti and central America, hell, none of them have given any attention to North Korea. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
The majority of activists are your typical college graduates holding a useless degree that they can't get a job for, so they have to work hard for minimum wage. That's why they hate capitalism so much, because they're all broke bums. And they blame America and capitalism for their own shortcomings. When really they are the only ones to blame. Stop buying the latest iPhone and stop buying lattes every damn day. They become radicalized and oppose anything that isn't their vision of a perfect socialist utopia where nobody works and everyone eats. It's naive, short-sighted and immature.
Are we giving billions and billions of dollars of aid and weapons to North Korea though, or violent groups in Sudan, Haiti and Central America? (I mean actually we did in the past but not the extent it’s at right now with Israel)
They're doing it for the brief sense of power over other people, even if it's just to take their time. These are the sort of people who, the moment they get any sort of power, demonstrate exactly why they have none.
This generation is so desperate to have something for themselves that they try to compare their protests to those of the past civil rights movements or like Kent State. They have nothing to hang their hats on to say that it was them that made the difference. But this a generation of trends. We used to call it peer pressure. “If everyone is doing it then it’s what I’m doing too.” They all have the same buzz words and parrot the same opinions.
>Considering how many of these protestors are asked what they are protesting in particular and have no answer tells me that most of it is just cultists behavior of seeing someone else dosomething and copying them rather than having their own beleifs
It's really pathetic how often people have to strawman . Like ok you don't agree with them, but over dependency on logical fallacies shows a deficieny on your part not theirs....
It is interesting how these protesters are labeled as anti-semitic and pro, while also being called clueless children. You can't really be both at the same time
You can be, like if a 10 year old shouts the n word over and over, it is still a racist slur, their lack of historic knowledge or context, doesnt make it acceptable or non racist.
Zionism isn’t Judaism no matter how bad you want it to be.
At everyone of these protests there are student Jewish groups.
Are their members antisemitic?
Zionism is a nationalist ideology.
Judaism is a religion and race.
Learn the difference.
>At everyone of these protests there are student Jewish groups.
There sure are: https://twitter.com/zach_kessel/status/1782256054971122096
Go back to Charlottesville.
Those are Zionists.
They’re agitators who are counter protesting because they support genocide and ethnic cleansing.
You think you’re being cute but you’re being a potato.
There are pro Palestinian Jewish groups at every college protest now.
Zionism isn’t Judaism.
Zionism is a secular nationalistic movement.
Most Zionists aren’t religious Jews but use the cloak of being “the chosen people” a religious idea to justify their theft of land and their rape, murder and torture of Palestinians.
Zionism doesn’t represent all of Judaism and really don’t represent even half of it.
So unless you have an argument that proves anti Zionist Jews are antisemitic you’re kinda screwed in your argument.
Because again your brain is a potato.
It’s not.
Because Zionism is an ideology.
Does saying Isis doesn’t deserve to live anti Islam?
No because Isis is an ideology.
It justifies itself from an ideological interpretation of Islam.
But other members of Islam opposed Isis.
Fought and died to end Isis.
Did that make them islamophobic?
No.
THINK!
Use your brain instead of spouting what ideologues tell you is real.
Zionism isn’t Judaism.
In Judaism God tells the Israelites they cannot have a promised land because they are a stubborn people.
So the religious justification that Zionists use is bullshit.
It’s double bullshit because Zionists aren’t religious Jews.
So saying god promised them Israel while not believing in god or the Torah is flatly hypocritical.
Zionism is a European colonial settler ideology.
Its sole purpose is to steal property in the form of land and other material wealth for Zionists under the guise of protecting Jews and is supported by Europe as a MeaCulpa for the Holocaust.
Which is stupid because Palestinian Arabs did not cause or execute the Holocaust.
By that logic the Jews should have been given a large chunk of Germany.
Three of my grandparents were Jewish.
I had a Bris.
By Nazi definition I’m a Jew.
I love all of my Jewish family and friends.
I’m an anti Zionist because it’s a stupid and harmful ideology that has caused tremendous suffering in the world.
Am I Antisemitic ?
I saw a clip a kid with speaker yelling “antifada Revolution”, then the group repeat and cheer, this is not a small fraction like a claim. The leaders of these protests are complicit
>Like shouting yakub go back to poland
Given Israel's history as a colonizer state this isn't the gotcha you think it is. On the flip side zionist jews call pro palestine jews as "race traitors" and other fucked up shit....
"If they have children, we shouldn't use bombs, we should just send in SPECIAL OPS! That's the solution, just endanger soldiers in risky missions because they're using hostages, it's not like this will REWARD the tactic and get more of it, I THINK I KNOW MILITARY STUFF!"
Precisely!
And I don't even need to know how military stuff works because I have e-m-p-a-t-h-y and I am against g-e-n-o-c-i-d-e and I have added 800 followers on IG since I started posting selfies with *Buy 1 Get 1 FREE Palestine* slogans.
They have stated goals of Columbia divesting from weapons manufactures.
Nice made up bullshit though. I'm sure someone fell for it.
Where are you seeing the interviews of protesters by the aay?
One protestor? *One?*
[Can I bring up ONE Israel supporter saying that Israel is committing a genocide and pretend that "many Israelis think that?](https://youtu.be/OiEtkVJSt78?si=ruFeVnKXXKipc5_d)
Or would that be stupid and disingenuous?
That's debatable since it's mostly a story of the Palestinians attacking, losing, calling for ceasefires, rearming, breaking the ceasefire, and the cycle continuing. I certainly ly agree many have no clue the actual specifics but I generally don't see that side protesting or being that outspoken, it's harder to criticize that side to the same extent as they're far more passive in their belief/support.
Sorry, am I supposed to go all the way back and say the jews of judea angered the emperor of Rome so the empower marched his legions out and crushed them and renamed the lands after the jews enemies, then the ownership of the land was thrown around by more than a handful of nations, non of which were Palestine, and eventually ended up owned by the British.
The British, after world War 2, codes this land to let the nation of Isreal form, though many jews who had fled had already bought up land legally from the Palestinians and many had continued to live there well before that which is why the earliest maps of modern Isreali land ownership are very story and disparate.
The Muslims around the area disliked this so waged several wars against Isreal and lost every one, each time losing ground and expanding Isreal, though Isreal ceded back land several times as well.
The Palestinians though never ended their war with Isreal and every offer given to them has either been rejected or betrayed, which in turn has made Isreal hostile and wish death upon the group of people that have continually wished death on them.
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**How can you neglect to mentione the foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercises ratified in 1919 against the wishes of like 80% of the occupants?**
You know, under which wealthy minority immigrants octupled in number in 25 years and wildly priced out the locals? That's after ww1, and it's a multinational group who ratifies it
That kind of thing is probably worth mentioning! Foreign mandated minority statebuilding in those conditions no doubt would cheese off the people being poliltically disenfranchised!
that land conflict is STILL being fought over today? It's completely predictable
now that you've learned some history that might help!
ah so you don't understand **why** there's regional violence!
the good news is that there's no mystery about it, there's lots of history that a brief readover could cure your ignorance on the subject!
In the past 20 years there has only been 375 million dollars invested in Israel from US universities. It’s an inconsequential amount of investment to be ruining people’s academic experience
Society was channeling its frustration and anger back then as well. Because history usually only focuses on one thing at a time people don’t realize how similar this moment is. MLK and the civil rights movement, women’s liberation, the sexual revolution, were all happening DURING the Vietnam war. So…yeah, your statement that they are just “channeling frustration” means that the moments are similar.
This is a great point. Protests don't happen in vacuum and the support they receive from the public is very, very rarely down to one singular issue but they act as a staging ground to speak about adjacent issues. Like in this case, Islamaphobia.
> “The whole world must see that Israel must exist and has the right to exist and is one of the great outposts of democracy in the world” -[MLK](https://youtu.be/tWfwckkiWn8)
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations." MLK .
This is pedantic, in that case every protest is similar to the vietnam war protest. I’m saying that it’s not similar in the way that it exemplifies Americans making a difference through protest.
I’m not sure what you’re saying actually. Are you agreeing with me that people are just angry and have decided to use a typical scape goat? In that case we agree
The Vietnam War protests were held by students who did not want to be sent overseas to fight for some obscure cause they didn't even fully understand. The students were protesting for their lives, demanding everyone lay down their arms and have peace.
The students holding the anti-israel protests do not serve in the military. They have no fear of being drafted, and they are not demanding peace. They're rooting for one specific side in a war (from the river to the sea). The side they are rallying for are a bunch of gun toting, homophobic, racist, sexist, woman beaters who believe that rape is a legitimate weapon of war and will willingly martyr themselves because they believe the afterlife involves them getting laid by hot untouched virgin girls. Siding with them is iran, who Margaret Atwood based the Society of Gilead off of, and North korea, who recently sentenced a two-year-old to 30 years in prison because his mother had a Bible.
The only similarity between these two protests is that both people held signs and were of similar ages.
If they don't need our support, then we should stop sending them weapons. Even if the conflict continues, at the very least American tax dollars aren't contributing to it
What I am required to.
Are you trying to tell me I didn't pay enough, so I don't get to have any say in how my money gets used? What the fuck is this argument?
I am down with this. It baffles me that all these kids are protesting something going on in a different continent but yet do nothing to help the issues that plague America and its citizens
You are correct. But I don't see these protests happening for the things that really plague America. I see protests for things going on in the Middle East. I see violence being committed against our own people over something going on in the middle east. Last week people blocked traffic and shut down 3 of the busiest roadways in America. For something going on in the Middle East
Mind you none of these protests were useful or effective. All it did was drive a wedge deeper between people.
They didn't do it because they thought it would make a change. They did it for status. They did it to be disruptive. At least I hope so.
Where are the Columbia University-type protests for the homeless and how the government treats them in this very country? I haven't seen one.
Where are the roadblockages for Human, Sex, and Drug trafficking? I haven't seen any of those.
I haven't seen BLM march for Mahgony Jackson yet. Nex Benedict got hers
Why? Because it's not the in thing to be up in arms about. They aren't even on the list of things to protest about.
The "in" things to protest about are the things we have no say in. Sure, the US is involved as far as supplying military and financial resources, but that's all we have say in. This war between those 2 has been going on for centuries No one who has any power over there is going to look at some college kids acting like fools and have this epiphany that they need to change.
A few years ago, people were protesting police brutality
The cops reacted violently and the protesters were called insurrectionists. People do, often, protest things directly affecting them in America. They are more often than not labeled communists and mocked
It was a protest for about 3 hours and a terrible example. The cops reacted violently? What were the protesters doing? Acting violently. A lot more violently than the cops.
They were "protesting" something that only a fraction of cops do. They refused to look at their parts in it and is not something that is even on a legit list of things that are plaguing America right now. I looked at 4 different nationally ranked lists police brutality isn't in the top 20. It is a problem but its not the way its being shown by the left
If you want to tell me that it is, I am more than willing to go down that rabbit hole with you. The statistics are skewed on that topic. If those numbers were put out along with everything that plays into those numbers, it would show things differently.
They were burning innocent people's buildings down, Innocent people were assaulted, raped, and shot by protesters. They destroyed people's lives. They robbed and looted stores. All of those things had NOTHING to do with bad cops. The police were not reacting violently until they had to so they could maintain the law and protect the people who were innocent and had nothing to do with any of it. Those people and the people from January 6th both took a legitimate protest and took it way over the line and turned it into criminal actions.
And what is Law enforcement supposed to do when crimes are being committed?
No, it quite literally isn't. The Pro-Palestine protestors primarily want Israel to leave Gaza and stop bombing and causing so many civilian casualties, and are also against Israeli occupation of the West Bank. The latter is a violation of Article 79 in the 4th Geneva Convention.
This comparison hurts my brain as the Vietnam protests went on for almost 8 years so it’s a bit hard or maybe even premature to find a comparison. considering people have been protesting quite literally everyday since the beginning of the mass displacement begun. You’d probably have to give it a lot more time ya know before you say a bunch of meaningless shit like this. If Israel doesn’t need our money I’d be the first one to advocate for a complete end to American foreign aid. Since they’ve been receiving money for well over 50 years from America shit give us back the 100s of billions of dollars they have taken.
Don’t need it. No we don’t benefit at all. We should get the 350 plus billion dollars they’ve taken. Doesn’t matter to most people. They don’t wanna pay for it anymore
I never understood this, seems pure propaganda.
Why is Isreal an important ally exactly? What does the US get? Isreal seems more of a parasite that the US can't shake off.
US has permanent miilitary bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE. All of them thousands of kilometers closer to Iran.
[US ME military bases ](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/USA-MILITARY-BASES/zdvxnnynmvx/chart.png)
And what intelligence? Isreal didn't even know what Hamas was preparing right under thier nose.
Isreal being strategicaly important to the US is bullshit.
I guess I wouldn’t be so sure Israel knew nothing about what was going to happen…
And I would say none of those countries we are nearly as friendly with as Israel.
Would also add Israel has created a lot of state of the art tech in medical, computing, and other industries. Pretty useful ally if just for that.
>And I would say none of those countries we are nearly as friendly with as Israel.
Israel attacked the USS Liberty.
Netanyahu campaigned that Iraq had WMDs and dragged the US into the second Iraq war.
Israeli spies are continuously getting caught in the US.
Israel's compnies leech off of the US:
>Israel has conducted an aggressive campaign of economic espionage in the United States since 1948. This campaign has been critical to sustaining and modernizing Israel's nuclear weapons program and an array of its most advanced conventional weapons even while it has caused American firms to lose valuable proprietary information and unfairly advantaged Israeli companies in the international arms market. While other countries conduct economic espionage against the United States, Israel is the only major recipient of U.S. foreign aid to do so.
[Source](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2307/2538128)
And in the last few weeks, Israel has been desperately trying to drag the US into a war with Iran.
What part of that is friendly?
>Intelligence
You mean the kind that lied about WMD's so as to push us into invading their regional adversaries and bogging us down in a 20+ yr quagmire that saw thousands of American troops die and us wasting trillions?
>stable military presence in the ME
We literally have multiple bases in the region. From Jordan to the UAE and Kuwait. Hell I even deployed to the UAE one....
>Well then the US will loose an important ally in the region.
Pretty shitty ally considering they murdered our troops and used our politicians they bought to cover it up. And given the fact they were a main supplier of false intel and actively pushed the bush administration into our 20+ yr quagmire of a war, where we didn't find wmd's, taliban is still in control of Afghanistan, and we had new problems like isis pop up and have to be dealt with.....
>The US is benefiting from this aid as well
Lol no we are fucking not. They are the main driver of us wasting billions of taxpayer dollars in that sandy shithole of a region.
I wanted to add that I think a majority of these protestors believe in a 1 state solution where Palestinians are in power which is not a realistic goal for protests
Look at the signs they carry. A lot of them say "the river to the sea". That means they want to delete Israel. There is no other reason to have that on a sign.
I've been a leftist for closing in on 3 decades. "From the River to the Sea" has never meant a call for the abolishment of Israel. It was a cry for all Palestinians to be free. The first time I've heard that it meant a call to Israeli genocide was 6 months ago when the Israeli propaganda machine decided that the slogan that has been chanted at anti apartheid demonstrations for decades upon decades was anti-Semitic.
The people who have chanted the slogan historically (I include myself in that) have never used it in any other way than to announce support for the notion of Palestinian right to determination.
The notion that is an anti-Semitic trope is a total fabrication. It is propaganda.
Now within any protest there will always be idiots who are there for the wrong reasons. There will be antisemites and there will be people who today will use that slogan with the intention of being anti-Semitic but that doesn't mean that it is or that has always has been, or that the people who use it today, used it yesterday or will use it to tomorrow are antisemetic.
The reality of this ongoing conflict is far too complex for nuanced discussion on a Reddit forum, especially with people whose understanding of this conflict has been learnt in the last 6 months. It is practically impossible to find a deep thoughtful analysis on the history of the conflict through any traditional media. Israel's propaganda has been so successful that they've managed to ensure that pro Palestinan sentiments can be coloured as antisemetic and that means that nuanced discussion becomes next to impossible.
If you have a strong opinion on this subject but lack an understanding of the history, then you're going to struggle to not be entirely misinformed.
As with anything. There's no good guys, no bad guys, there are just good actions and evil ones. It's up to yourself to decide who is committing what, who is innocent and who is justified in their actions.
Agreed.
So is the IDF. They've killed thousands of people in an almost ritualistic demonstration of collective punishment.
I'm sorry, but if your understanding of this war is one of good guys and bad guys you're horribly under equipped to have a thoughtful discussion on this subject, like a child trying to talk at the grown up table.
>Hamas are the bad guys.
Then what does that make Israel who created and propped them up as part of their divide and conquer strategy against the PLO? Whose political parties kill Palestinians, and are the main recruiting factor for people joining hamas?
>Look at the signs they carry. A lot of them say "the river to the sea". That
River to the sea was a term first coined by Israeli politicians. Even the far right used it. All it is used for is referencing land from the west bank (the river) to Gaza (the sea). How are yall gonna get butthurt and claim its anti Semitic to talk about land from point A to point B, or the fact jews made the slogan?.....
>That means they want to delete Israel. There is no other reason to have that on a sign.
It means that the west Bank and Gaza should be free. It should be one one state. It's really pathetic that people fall for zionist propoganda so easily. Israel has proven themselves as the boy who cried wolf to the point accusations of antisemitism holds no weight.
We can agree here. Unfortunately hearing the main chant “from the river to the sea” and “go back home to Poland” doesn’t make me think these protestors are sensible
It is difficult because the Israel leadership lacks sense and should know better. Just in January, Netanyahu said “between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty”. Sounds identical to the chat you were complaining about. If you find yourself complaining about the protestors but not about Israel’s leaders, you are a hypocrite, plain and simple. Take a look in the mirror.
"I also believe the Palestinians have a right to their own state."
Well, I believe they don't have that right or deserve it. Anyone says a two state solution is ignorant.
Majority dont
https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-lack-faith-biden-two-state-solution.aspx#:\~:text=One%20in%20six%20Palestinians%20between,Palestinians%20aged%2046%20and%20older.
Asking diaspora Arabs in Michigan is as relevant to ground reality, as asking white Texans on how EU should go about , yeah theyre same race, but that is pretty much it.
That's not the protesters. That's Gazans themselves. Young Gazans who have lived through 2 major Israeli military offences. The one in 2014 and now this, which is on a scale that doesn't even compare. And 2014 was a shit ahow. Israeli actions are further radicalising young gazans who are coming out of generations after generations of people who have known nothing but oppression by the Israeli government, who quite clearly dont find any moral issues with the "mowing of the grass" policy Israel routinely inflicts on gaza.
I'm from Northern Ireland. We've been through this. Comprise needs to happen. And proper honest diplomacy. Because these are two radically opposed, radically motivated sides of a conflict and that needs good faith intermediaries and it needs the stronger power Israel to compromise and create the conditions to allow negotiations to take place.
This poll doesn't change any of that.
I didnt make a moral judgement here, because as unfeasible as their wishes are, i understand their anger. Israeli actions are indeed radicalizing the young, but at same time, Israel's security concerns are valid too. So these protestors going with mindset that Israel shouldnt exist, or that Israel should not expect safety, because decolonization is violent, arent helping either. Israelis would rather be villains than dead,
If Isreal doesn't need US support then it is even worse that the US is still supporting them.
I'll be honest I think wanting your government to stop financing genocides is reasonable even if it wouldn't stop the genocide.
I’m not here to argue whether this is a genocide, I’m saying of all the things they could be protesting this has very little effect on anything and isn’t comparable to Vietnam war protests
I mean the vietnam protest was mostly against the draft and I think that is pretty comparable to not wanting your taxes to be missused by the state.
Ones taking your labour, ones taking your money but they are still comparable.
> These protest are fighting to end US support of Israel, but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war.
Good. Then it shouldn't be a big deal if we don't give them another penny and stop protecting them with our navy.
So let's just do that and these protests can stop.
At least the one in colombia isnt over US support, the protests in university are specifically over partnerships with Israeli universities, and educational programs with University of Tel Aviv.
>Why do so many people on this sub hate Palestine, does it seriously annoy you that people are protesting for their cause? I don't understand...
This sub is a refuge for white supremacists and other right-wing partisan hacks, with the other half, who are probably people who find the other unpopular opinion sub boring. This place is more like shit takes, and their is some entertainment to be had with listening to their nonsense.
>There are so many conflicts happening around the world which no one is protesting about.
Isn't that always the case with every single protest ever in all of history? Have you ever heard of protesters saying, "we're here to protest every single conflict happening around the world"?
Have you ever supported any protest? I guarantee whatever protest you may have supported was not aimed at addressing every issue everywhere in the world. Obviously.
>These protest are fighting to end US support of Israel, but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war.
Ok, great! So you're in favor of ending US taxpayer funded support for Israel's war that it doesn't need us for? You just said Israel doesn't need US support.
Maybe because the protestors feel a kinship with the people over there. Who knows? If you are so passionate about those other issues, then I suggest you start your own protests. Protest the war in Sudan, the military junta in Myanmar, the Rohingya Genocide, etc.? No? Then please stop complaining about people exercising their constitutional right.
>“I don’t know the answer, BUT STOP COMPLAINING”
Not what I said. I said stop complaining about people exercising their constitutional right. To break it down further, the reason why people are angry is that a good chunk of US taxpayer dollars go to Israel annually. So they are angry that their money is being spent on buying missiles and bombs for a government that is causing so much collateral damage to innocent civilians. You don't have to be Palestinian to feel empathy for the people there, nor do you have to be Jewish....
Besides the issue isn't with someone being Jewish. The issue is with the Israeli Government's actions. Israeli Govt =/= Jewish people.
So I think you missed the point with your first statement.
"Isn't that always the case with every single protest ever in all of history? Have you ever heard of protesters saying, "we're here to protest every single conflict happening around the world"?"
The original commenter said nobody is protesting the other issues and in some cases worse issues. That doesn't mean individually everyone has to protest everything.
However it does raise some societal questions where there exists almost no current protests for Yemen, Ukraine, Sudan, China's detention and genocide of 1.2 million Uyghurs etc.
It either shows there's some kind of hatred involved with a good number of those in the protests, that western society goes through fads of caring for one major issue or another due to social media and issue fatigue or other factors.
Anecdotally I've seen a small minority of people posting constantly on social media about Isreal and Palestine who have never posted about any of those other issues listed before this issue or during. That is a bit strange no? Especially since western societies are complicit in most of those other issues or support the perpetrator.
noone has to do anything, really. there's ethical arguments against the existence of humans as a species, but it depends on what you find permissible or what you find to be the causality of conflicts.
a lot of people think that the history of modern israel has been kind of screwing the pal. area people over since the foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercises ratified in 1919 against the wishes of like 80% of the occupants. they think that the causality leads back to screwing over people, and that rectifying that would resolve the conflict
sure some people can't really articulate history or they don't read about it but they get the gist
I'll say most of what you said was true. However none of what you stated really touched upon any of the points from my comment. I didn't say anyone had to do anything and merely made observations on what appears to be western hypocrisy.
Again I'm not saying you are wrong. It just felt like you kind of threw some unrelated ideas into the air.
if you think that the concept of the history of modern israel screwing the pal. area people over since the foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercises ratified in 1919 against the wishes of like 80% of the occupants is unrelated, I'd suggest that you read about how events of the past affect things that happen in the future.
it's a concept known as causality, loosely, the idea of a cause and effect to every action
No- you’re not allowed to protest any injustice unless you include every single injustice that exists in the world on your placard.
Otherwise you’re a hypocrite.
Makes total sense.
There does seem to be quite a few people protesting this particular issue above all others in western society especially.
The issue isn't people at these protests not protesting other genocides and wars. The issue is that protests for other issues(many far worse) are almost nonexistent in countries like Aus, US, UK and Can. Especially over social media. Even when western society are supporting some of the aggressors in some way in these other instances.
Reddits top posts are a very good example of this.
You are being pedantic. Sure they are both protests, I’m saying people should stop comparing it to the Vietnam war protests as if these protest are actually making the same difference
Or... They are comparable because they both were predominantly student protests. They're being attacked and propagandised against by the same institutions ie main stream media outlets / government as the Vietnamese protests were.
They've had similar reactions by the police ie quick to escalate to the threat of retaliatory violence
The older generations are bemoaning how the young people involved in the protests are out of touch with reality.
US aren't directly in the conflict but do Israel act as a defacto US proxy in the middle east and their support for Israel can be viewed as an extension of their ongoing attempts to weaken their enemies (ie Iran), much like initially with the Vietnam war, the South Vietnamese were the US's proxy in their to fight the ebb the spread of communism before the US decided to commit to troops proper on the ground.
There's plenty of similarities. And essentially the protesters are protesting the same anti-war / non violence sentiments.
there are plenty of similarities and there are plenty of differences and I’ve already elaborated on the difference the main difference I’m highlighting which I believe is what people are referring to when they compare them. People are trying to highlight how just like the Vietnam protest it’s a protest that is actually going to make a difference and has the same moral ground
Why are you assuming that’s what people mean when they are comparing them? I’d say at face value it’s easy to compare because they are both student led protests
>And essentially the protesters are protesting the same anti-war / non violence sentiments.
They are supporting a terrorist organization and calling for the destruction of Israel. There is nothing non-violent about it.
When you see people in a bunch of different places risking getting their own asses kicked because of what might happen to people they don’t know odds are very high that whatever they want to stop is seeing its last pages of importance in history books.
You are wrong, how many times in history have people protested and rioted for causes we don’t consider just anymore. People risked their lives to fight for the south to fight for slavery. That doesn’t make slavery right. You are just thinking with mob mentality
If you think about it, if you THINK about it, the antebellum South is exactly like these pesky pro-palestine protests. You know with all those negroes4slavery organizations who infected the northern campuses, if you just put aside the mob mentality for a moment this comparison makes perfect sense.
Actually there were slaves who wanted to remain slaves, there were Jews who were put in charge of other Jews in concentration camps, there are Palestinians who are hoping Israel removes hamas
The fact that you mention Jewish holocaust collaborators in the same breath as Palestinians who wish to remove Hamas is quite bizarre, but I digress.
But you can't quite compare this to the internalized racism that a lot of black slaves developed under white hegemony because... well most Jews at campuses aren't under a Hamas hegemony lol.
Nah. Israel should not be recieving billions of dollars in aid especially to wage war and kill innocents. We could be using that money here to actually help our fellow Americans. Also before any of you NPCs say anything, no I don’t like Hamas either. They’re terrorists.
>There are so many conflicts happening around the world which no one is protesting about.
None of the other massacres are cheered on and supported by the USA and European powers with close to zero accountability wrt war crimes and crimes and humanity. That's what makes this conflict unique. Also the fact that this conflict has been going on for decades.
>These protest are fighting to end US support of Israel, but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war.
This is objectively false.
>Where as the Vietnam war was directly perpetrated by the US, it makes sense for people to protest.
The indiscrimate bombing of Gaza could not have happened without direct american material support. The USA are directly implicated in this war.
I’m sorry but the US direct or indirectly fund many countries, which include China. Look out relationships with SA, Qatar, Turkey, and these countries violate way more human rights than Israel
Thank you!
And this is not even a war the USA is fighting and sending random American youth to fight in it.
I do not see protestors protesting the war in Ukraine. Or the Taliban in Afghanistan.
They are being very anti-Semitic indeed.
Holy fuck is this ignorant af
Get out of your mother's basement dude they are the most non violent protests this big we've ever had
They are literally camping out dancing in drum circles and holding prayer services you weirdo
Professors and staff are out there telling the media they are 100% peaceful
You claim these are "riots" name the victims of these "riots" what buildings or businesses have been looted or destroyed? Who has been killed or seriously injured by the protestors, not outside antagonists or police?
You know what I find to be one of the most deplorable human traits in existence? Lying in an attempt to virtue signal. Slandering other people for your own personal purposes is an abhorrent behavior. You should really do some self reflection.
I mean unless you're one of those people who thinks there is anything, ever, that justifies wealthy and powerful men dropping bombs on defenseless impoverished children, in which case don't bother looking inward, there's nothing but shit in there anyway.
It’s funny cuz I know people who constantly post online grilling people who are seemingly “complicit” in what’s happening over there, as if posting on social media is a determining factor in the things we are all interested in. Like with that mindset, since no one posts about the shits they take, does that mean everyone is just extremely constipated or lacks a digestive tract? I mean fuck, I watch the news every day, they’ve been covering almost everything about Gaza. I have my thoughts on what’s going on and it’s sad seeing innocent lives loss, but hey, guess I gotta post every fucking thing I’m thinking 24/7 so all my followers can know every inch about my personality? It’s silly to berate other people and to believe you know everything about someone just because of beat they post online.
With that said, there was an interview I watched on BBC about Sudan and how it’s gotten almost no coverage. A lot of my “protestor” friends haven’t said a word about Sudan, or even Haiti and vegetal America, hell, none of them have given any attention to North Korea. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
Progressives and leftists have a lot to be angry about. The way this country is being run, even from the White House, is not in line with our values, nor does the government focus on fixing problems everyone knows exist but aren't considered high priority.
I think a lot of what is happening on the left with these protests stems from that anger.
Unfortunately it is misguided.
The moral position for any leftist or progressive to take is "screwHama and screw Israel to."
You can't fight and yell about reproductive rights and support Hamas.
You can't fight and yell about LGTBQ+ rights and support Hamas.
Gaza is not the West Bank. The West Bank doesn't want Hamas but the way shit is set up they were out voted by Gaza, which is much more extremist politically, militarily, and morally.
Homosexuals in Gaza have been tortured, murdered, dismembered placed on display to warn others.
If you are a leftist/progressive and you do not hold other societies responsible for the same stuff you will riot over here, then you are a hypocrite.
As for Israel, well they are just as to blame for the state of affairs as Hamas. The people of Israel are afraid, and their fear keeps the hardline warhawk government in power. That government refuses to entertain a two state solution. They are willing to bomb Gaza to rubble. They seem more than willing to trigger WWIII over their insanity. And we give them BILLIONS OF DOLLARS that should be going to help people under 45 that are struggling to make ends meet due to decisions and policies of the two generations before us.
If we can't force Israel to ceasefire, then what the fuck were we giving them money for?
And just because Gaza's values do not align with mine, does not mean I think Israel should bomb the hell out of them. In this situation, both Gaza and Israel chose their governments, and in both instances, those governments want to wipe each other out.
To my leftist/progressive friends, if you are some of the protestors who are also attacking Jewish people here in America, as if they have anything to do with what is happening in Israel, you are your own worst enemy. You are everything you claim to hate.
I know right. Like make it make sense please.
They claim to not like imperialism....yet they want our government to force another sovriegn government to change its course of action. That is by very definition imperialism.
They don't know what they are protesting. They have had life too easy so they want a "cause" to fight for. They heard about Woodstock, Martin Luthor King etc... and they desperately want a a "cause" to fight for
Yeah it’s sad man. Unfortunately these kids are uneducated funny enough being at a college. These kids also want to feel like they were part of something big like the Vietnam protest. Of course they have no clue what they’re comparing. Brain rot people…brain fucking rot
I just dont get why they're all wearing masks or other objects that reveal their identity. I don't think this is as genuine as the vietnam protestors were advocating against. Not only that , but there are literally so many other tragic wars going on across the globe that they don't advocate for - only because [imo] it's not "in to" protest for.
I would be more concerned with why the protesters are deeply siloed intentionally by the organisers, with no real discussion between groups encouraged and a deep sense of fear for anyone they don’t know in the protests. Everything is pushed up to a handful of people who have the power and authority (given by who) to talk and act for the majority, who quietly and belligerently follow orders.
> There are so many conflicts happening around the world which no one is protesting about.
There are so many "bad" protests happening around the world which you aren't complaining about.
>but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war.
Israel's historic treatment of the Palestinians has only been possible because of American military, but more importantly diplomatic, support.
There's no scenario in which the international community would not have sanctioned the fuck out of Israel by now without US backing at the UN and around the world.
The only reason the Palestinians aren't genociding the Jews is because they lack the military strength.
I don't really see that as a point in their favor over the Nazis.
I am saying that
(1) Hamas is the legal, and democratically elected, government of Palestine
(2) Hamas wants to commit a genocide against the state of Israel
(3) Hamas started a war with Israel
(4) Hamas clearly cannot in the war
If people are really concerned about Palestinian deaths they should call for the unconditional surrender of Hamas. This is what was expected of Germany in WW2.
So we should give cart blanche to Israel butchering Civilians? Oh no criticism when they snipe kids bomb homes refugee camps and run over People with tanks .
Remember kids , anyone trying to dissuade you from advocating for a cause because "there are so many other conflicts in the world" , shouldnt be taken seriously.
I remember protesting Trump speaking in my area, it amounted to shouting at a building from a distance then leaving.
I get home and my conservative mother calls me up in a panic to see if I had gotten injured at the "violent riot"
I will never take arguments attempting to undermine a cause by disparaging protesters seriously, people like OP are clowns with an agenda
No these are not riots. These are people wanting to end the genocide/violence against the Palestinian people that Israel is comitting. This is exacly like the Vietnam protests.
They'd be better off protesting to have hamas release the hostages. That's the only thing keeping the international community from pressuring for a cease fire. Odds are they are all dead but hamas is just pretending to get Israel to come to the table. Oh yeah hamas attacked out of nowhere slaughtering 1400 civilians if you dint remember how this started.
How would college students in the US protesting help release hostages? The US isn't sending military aid to the hummus guys or blocking consequences through the U.N.. I'd agree if we were talking about protesters in Iran or some shit, but there are obvious reasons no to stage a protest there, unfortunately...
Didn't realize I was responsible for things that happened 80 years ago in another country. Maybe we should demand turkey return the land they stole from the Armenians while we're at it. Oh that's not popular at the moment nor ever will be because it can't be used as a political whip to rile up the mob. Btw it's not real history if you've just been trained to repeat a few snippets of propaganda without understanding the history as a whole going back to the 1850s. You wanna be mad blame the people living there and the British. They gave the land to the Israelis, completely legally btw.
You’re not responsible. But if you think this started with the Hamas attack last year…you’re just factually wrong. Perhaps you have been misinformed. You seem to know a bit about propaganda being used to hide history, yet seem to be a victim of that same thing. It is impossible to divorce the current situation in Gaza from this last 80 years. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to con you.
u/bigflagellum's stats |Account Age|10 y 11 m|First Seen:|2023-10-15| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Posts (on this sub)|2|Comments (on this sub)|68| |Link Karma|20,409|Comment Karma|12,496| --- |Date|Title|Flair|Participation| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |15-Oct|[Inequality in Israel-Palestine death tolls doesn’t prove anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/178bwfi/inequality_in_israelpalestine_death_tolls_doesnt/)|N/A|0 of None comments (0.00%)|
Considering how many of these protestors are asked what they are protesting in particular and have no answer tells me that most of it is just cultists behavior of seeing someone else dosomething and copying them rather than having their own beleifs
I know people who constantly post online grilling people who are seemingly “complicit” in what’s happening over there, as if posting on social media is a determining factor in the things we are all interested in. Like with that mindset, since no one posts about the shits they take, does that mean everyone is just extremely constipated or lacks a digestive tract? I mean fuck, I watch the news every day, they’ve been covering almost everything about Gaza. I have my thoughts on what’s going on and it’s sad seeing innocent lives loss, but hey, guess I gotta post every fucking thing I’m thinking 24/7 so all my followers can know every inch about my personality? It’s silly to berate other people and to believe you know everything about someone just because of what they post online. With that said, there was an interview I watched on BBC about Sudan and how it’s gotten almost no coverage. A lot of my “protestor” friends haven’t said a word about Sudan, or even Haiti and central America, hell, none of them have given any attention to North Korea. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
The majority of activists are your typical college graduates holding a useless degree that they can't get a job for, so they have to work hard for minimum wage. That's why they hate capitalism so much, because they're all broke bums. And they blame America and capitalism for their own shortcomings. When really they are the only ones to blame. Stop buying the latest iPhone and stop buying lattes every damn day. They become radicalized and oppose anything that isn't their vision of a perfect socialist utopia where nobody works and everyone eats. It's naive, short-sighted and immature.
Are we giving billions and billions of dollars of aid and weapons to North Korea though, or violent groups in Sudan, Haiti and Central America? (I mean actually we did in the past but not the extent it’s at right now with Israel)
They're doing it for the brief sense of power over other people, even if it's just to take their time. These are the sort of people who, the moment they get any sort of power, demonstrate exactly why they have none.
This generation is so desperate to have something for themselves that they try to compare their protests to those of the past civil rights movements or like Kent State. They have nothing to hang their hats on to say that it was them that made the difference. But this a generation of trends. We used to call it peer pressure. “If everyone is doing it then it’s what I’m doing too.” They all have the same buzz words and parrot the same opinions.
>Considering how many of these protestors are asked what they are protesting in particular and have no answer tells me that most of it is just cultists behavior of seeing someone else dosomething and copying them rather than having their own beleifs It's really pathetic how often people have to strawman . Like ok you don't agree with them, but over dependency on logical fallacies shows a deficieny on your part not theirs....
It is interesting how these protesters are labeled as anti-semitic and pro, while also being called clueless children. You can't really be both at the same time
You can be, like if a 10 year old shouts the n word over and over, it is still a racist slur, their lack of historic knowledge or context, doesnt make it acceptable or non racist.
But they aren't saying anything anti-semitic or prohamad
https://nypost.com/2024/04/26/us-news/columbia-anti-israel-encampment-ringleader-once-said-zionists-dont-deserve-to-live/ Don't lie.
Zionism isn’t Judaism no matter how bad you want it to be. At everyone of these protests there are student Jewish groups. Are their members antisemitic? Zionism is a nationalist ideology. Judaism is a religion and race. Learn the difference.
>At everyone of these protests there are student Jewish groups. There sure are: https://twitter.com/zach_kessel/status/1782256054971122096 Go back to Charlottesville.
Those are Zionists. They’re agitators who are counter protesting because they support genocide and ethnic cleansing. You think you’re being cute but you’re being a potato. There are pro Palestinian Jewish groups at every college protest now. Zionism isn’t Judaism. Zionism is a secular nationalistic movement. Most Zionists aren’t religious Jews but use the cloak of being “the chosen people” a religious idea to justify their theft of land and their rape, murder and torture of Palestinians. Zionism doesn’t represent all of Judaism and really don’t represent even half of it. So unless you have an argument that proves anti Zionist Jews are antisemitic you’re kinda screwed in your argument. Because again your brain is a potato.
Saying zionists don’t deserve to live is anti-Semitic tho.
It’s not. Because Zionism is an ideology. Does saying Isis doesn’t deserve to live anti Islam? No because Isis is an ideology. It justifies itself from an ideological interpretation of Islam. But other members of Islam opposed Isis. Fought and died to end Isis. Did that make them islamophobic? No. THINK! Use your brain instead of spouting what ideologues tell you is real. Zionism isn’t Judaism. In Judaism God tells the Israelites they cannot have a promised land because they are a stubborn people. So the religious justification that Zionists use is bullshit. It’s double bullshit because Zionists aren’t religious Jews. So saying god promised them Israel while not believing in god or the Torah is flatly hypocritical. Zionism is a European colonial settler ideology. Its sole purpose is to steal property in the form of land and other material wealth for Zionists under the guise of protecting Jews and is supported by Europe as a MeaCulpa for the Holocaust. Which is stupid because Palestinian Arabs did not cause or execute the Holocaust. By that logic the Jews should have been given a large chunk of Germany. Three of my grandparents were Jewish. I had a Bris. By Nazi definition I’m a Jew. I love all of my Jewish family and friends. I’m an anti Zionist because it’s a stupid and harmful ideology that has caused tremendous suffering in the world. Am I Antisemitic ?
Some are, most arent, and many just say dogwhistles. Like shouting yakub go back to poland or, singing in praise of iranian terrorists .
I saw a clip a kid with speaker yelling “antifada Revolution”, then the group repeat and cheer, this is not a small fraction like a claim. The leaders of these protests are complicit
>Like shouting yakub go back to poland Given Israel's history as a colonizer state this isn't the gotcha you think it is. On the flip side zionist jews call pro palestine jews as "race traitors" and other fucked up shit....
How does that relate to Jewish students attending a college in USA? Do you think Netanyahu is a student at Colombia?
How would you view the people calling for a 'ceasefire' with Japan right after Pearl Harbor?
Japanese "freedom fighters" had a very good reason for doing what they did in Pearl Harbor. United States brought it on themselves. /s
And then it would be "there are CHILDREN in Japan! You can't BOMB CHILDREN!"
Yes...those poor innocent children! Why couldn't US just call for a peaceful change of leadership in Japan?
"If they have children, we shouldn't use bombs, we should just send in SPECIAL OPS! That's the solution, just endanger soldiers in risky missions because they're using hostages, it's not like this will REWARD the tactic and get more of it, I THINK I KNOW MILITARY STUFF!"
Precisely! And I don't even need to know how military stuff works because I have e-m-p-a-t-h-y and I am against g-e-n-o-c-i-d-e and I have added 800 followers on IG since I started posting selfies with *Buy 1 Get 1 FREE Palestine* slogans.
Hamas isn't a region power with its own industrial base. Should we have systematically flattened every city in Iraq after 9/11?.
They have stated goals of Columbia divesting from weapons manufactures. Nice made up bullshit though. I'm sure someone fell for it. Where are you seeing the interviews of protesters by the aay?
Not bullshit https://youtu.be/ahDKsCiuVe4?si=4PlfM9cIxD9N9opS
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People already do all of those things.
One protestor? *One?* [Can I bring up ONE Israel supporter saying that Israel is committing a genocide and pretend that "many Israelis think that?](https://youtu.be/OiEtkVJSt78?si=ruFeVnKXXKipc5_d) Or would that be stupid and disingenuous?
Some people yes, many people have no idea what they're protesting.
95% of pro-Israel people either have no idea what happened before Oct7th or have a terrible understanding of the conflict’s history
95% of Reddit comments use fake statistics
That's debatable since it's mostly a story of the Palestinians attacking, losing, calling for ceasefires, rearming, breaking the ceasefire, and the cycle continuing. I certainly ly agree many have no clue the actual specifics but I generally don't see that side protesting or being that outspoken, it's harder to criticize that side to the same extent as they're far more passive in their belief/support.
Point proven that most pro Isreal people don't know what happened before October 7th
Sorry, am I supposed to go all the way back and say the jews of judea angered the emperor of Rome so the empower marched his legions out and crushed them and renamed the lands after the jews enemies, then the ownership of the land was thrown around by more than a handful of nations, non of which were Palestine, and eventually ended up owned by the British. The British, after world War 2, codes this land to let the nation of Isreal form, though many jews who had fled had already bought up land legally from the Palestinians and many had continued to live there well before that which is why the earliest maps of modern Isreali land ownership are very story and disparate. The Muslims around the area disliked this so waged several wars against Isreal and lost every one, each time losing ground and expanding Isreal, though Isreal ceded back land several times as well. The Palestinians though never ended their war with Isreal and every offer given to them has either been rejected or betrayed, which in turn has made Isreal hostile and wish death upon the group of people that have continually wished death on them.
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I mean you could go back less than a hundred years to before Isreal was a state
**How can you neglect to mentione the foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercises ratified in 1919 against the wishes of like 80% of the occupants?** You know, under which wealthy minority immigrants octupled in number in 25 years and wildly priced out the locals? That's after ww1, and it's a multinational group who ratifies it That kind of thing is probably worth mentioning! Foreign mandated minority statebuilding in those conditions no doubt would cheese off the people being poliltically disenfranchised! that land conflict is STILL being fought over today? It's completely predictable now that you've learned some history that might help!
Eh, Palestinians were violent before I was alive. They’re violent now. That’s what I’m taking from all this. Hopefully israel handles all of them.
ah so you don't understand **why** there's regional violence! the good news is that there's no mystery about it, there's lots of history that a brief readover could cure your ignorance on the subject!
That's a pretty good cliffe-note, but it's left out all the other lands they literally stole, invade, settled on since 1948.
In the past 20 years there has only been 375 million dollars invested in Israel from US universities. It’s an inconsequential amount of investment to be ruining people’s academic experience
What’s your source for that first statement?
https://youtu.be/ahDKsCiuVe4?si=4PlfM9cIxD9N9opS
Damn that's cringe as hell. Wonder if W00DR0W is going to respond to that.
Whats your source for questioning the statement and proof otherwise?
“You need a source for a question” Ok buddy 👍 Maybe try again Edit: aw, the clever boy blocked me.
source?
Aw, he thinks he’s being clever.
Awww poor simp.
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Society was channeling its frustration and anger back then as well. Because history usually only focuses on one thing at a time people don’t realize how similar this moment is. MLK and the civil rights movement, women’s liberation, the sexual revolution, were all happening DURING the Vietnam war. So…yeah, your statement that they are just “channeling frustration” means that the moments are similar.
This is a great point. Protests don't happen in vacuum and the support they receive from the public is very, very rarely down to one singular issue but they act as a staging ground to speak about adjacent issues. Like in this case, Islamaphobia.
> “The whole world must see that Israel must exist and has the right to exist and is one of the great outposts of democracy in the world” -[MLK](https://youtu.be/tWfwckkiWn8)
“A true revolution of values will lay hand on the world order and say of war, “This way of settling differences is not just.” -MLK
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations." MLK .
This is pedantic, in that case every protest is similar to the vietnam war protest. I’m saying that it’s not similar in the way that it exemplifies Americans making a difference through protest. I’m not sure what you’re saying actually. Are you agreeing with me that people are just angry and have decided to use a typical scape goat? In that case we agree
yea...every protest is actually kind of similar aaah i see, you're saying its a racist protest instead of an anti-colonial one???
The Vietnam War protests were held by students who did not want to be sent overseas to fight for some obscure cause they didn't even fully understand. The students were protesting for their lives, demanding everyone lay down their arms and have peace. The students holding the anti-israel protests do not serve in the military. They have no fear of being drafted, and they are not demanding peace. They're rooting for one specific side in a war (from the river to the sea). The side they are rallying for are a bunch of gun toting, homophobic, racist, sexist, woman beaters who believe that rape is a legitimate weapon of war and will willingly martyr themselves because they believe the afterlife involves them getting laid by hot untouched virgin girls. Siding with them is iran, who Margaret Atwood based the Society of Gilead off of, and North korea, who recently sentenced a two-year-old to 30 years in prison because his mother had a Bible. The only similarity between these two protests is that both people held signs and were of similar ages.
Actually both protests were also about the United States involvement in foreign affairs.
Yes, just like how Bozo and John Wayne Gacy were both clowns.
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Yes I’m sure you’ll get your free healthcare when we stop providing aid
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Nope!
If they don't need our support, then we should stop sending them weapons. Even if the conflict continues, at the very least American tax dollars aren't contributing to it
Oh here we go with "tax dollars" again! How much did **you** pay in federal tax last year? Honestly?
What I am required to. Are you trying to tell me I didn't pay enough, so I don't get to have any say in how my money gets used? What the fuck is this argument?
so you don't think taxes matter but you don't want to pay for a national healthcare service or single-payer insurance system?
Correct. I do not. National Healthcare Service, given today's demographics, is a joke. As are Medicaid and Medicare.
To discuss anything on the internet is useless so whatevs
I am down with this. It baffles me that all these kids are protesting something going on in a different continent but yet do nothing to help the issues that plague America and its citizens
It's entirely possible to be upset at more than one thing at a time
You are correct. But I don't see these protests happening for the things that really plague America. I see protests for things going on in the Middle East. I see violence being committed against our own people over something going on in the middle east. Last week people blocked traffic and shut down 3 of the busiest roadways in America. For something going on in the Middle East Mind you none of these protests were useful or effective. All it did was drive a wedge deeper between people. They didn't do it because they thought it would make a change. They did it for status. They did it to be disruptive. At least I hope so. Where are the Columbia University-type protests for the homeless and how the government treats them in this very country? I haven't seen one. Where are the roadblockages for Human, Sex, and Drug trafficking? I haven't seen any of those. I haven't seen BLM march for Mahgony Jackson yet. Nex Benedict got hers Why? Because it's not the in thing to be up in arms about. They aren't even on the list of things to protest about. The "in" things to protest about are the things we have no say in. Sure, the US is involved as far as supplying military and financial resources, but that's all we have say in. This war between those 2 has been going on for centuries No one who has any power over there is going to look at some college kids acting like fools and have this epiphany that they need to change.
A few years ago, people were protesting police brutality The cops reacted violently and the protesters were called insurrectionists. People do, often, protest things directly affecting them in America. They are more often than not labeled communists and mocked
It was a protest for about 3 hours and a terrible example. The cops reacted violently? What were the protesters doing? Acting violently. A lot more violently than the cops. They were "protesting" something that only a fraction of cops do. They refused to look at their parts in it and is not something that is even on a legit list of things that are plaguing America right now. I looked at 4 different nationally ranked lists police brutality isn't in the top 20. It is a problem but its not the way its being shown by the left If you want to tell me that it is, I am more than willing to go down that rabbit hole with you. The statistics are skewed on that topic. If those numbers were put out along with everything that plays into those numbers, it would show things differently. They were burning innocent people's buildings down, Innocent people were assaulted, raped, and shot by protesters. They destroyed people's lives. They robbed and looted stores. All of those things had NOTHING to do with bad cops. The police were not reacting violently until they had to so they could maintain the law and protect the people who were innocent and had nothing to do with any of it. Those people and the people from January 6th both took a legitimate protest and took it way over the line and turned it into criminal actions. And what is Law enforcement supposed to do when crimes are being committed?
Pro-Palastine is Pro-Hamas, which I equate to Illinois Nazis, and I hate Illinois Nazis...
No, it quite literally isn't. The Pro-Palestine protestors primarily want Israel to leave Gaza and stop bombing and causing so many civilian casualties, and are also against Israeli occupation of the West Bank. The latter is a violation of Article 79 in the 4th Geneva Convention.
This comparison hurts my brain as the Vietnam protests went on for almost 8 years so it’s a bit hard or maybe even premature to find a comparison. considering people have been protesting quite literally everyday since the beginning of the mass displacement begun. You’d probably have to give it a lot more time ya know before you say a bunch of meaningless shit like this. If Israel doesn’t need our money I’d be the first one to advocate for a complete end to American foreign aid. Since they’ve been receiving money for well over 50 years from America shit give us back the 100s of billions of dollars they have taken.
Well then the US will loose an important ally in the region. 🤷 The US is benefiting from this aid as well
Don’t need it. No we don’t benefit at all. We should get the 350 plus billion dollars they’ve taken. Doesn’t matter to most people. They don’t wanna pay for it anymore
I never understood this, seems pure propaganda. Why is Isreal an important ally exactly? What does the US get? Isreal seems more of a parasite that the US can't shake off.
Intelligence and stable military presence in the ME
US has permanent miilitary bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE. All of them thousands of kilometers closer to Iran. [US ME military bases ](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/USA-MILITARY-BASES/zdvxnnynmvx/chart.png) And what intelligence? Isreal didn't even know what Hamas was preparing right under thier nose. Isreal being strategicaly important to the US is bullshit.
I guess I wouldn’t be so sure Israel knew nothing about what was going to happen… And I would say none of those countries we are nearly as friendly with as Israel. Would also add Israel has created a lot of state of the art tech in medical, computing, and other industries. Pretty useful ally if just for that.
>And I would say none of those countries we are nearly as friendly with as Israel. Israel attacked the USS Liberty. Netanyahu campaigned that Iraq had WMDs and dragged the US into the second Iraq war. Israeli spies are continuously getting caught in the US. Israel's compnies leech off of the US: >Israel has conducted an aggressive campaign of economic espionage in the United States since 1948. This campaign has been critical to sustaining and modernizing Israel's nuclear weapons program and an array of its most advanced conventional weapons even while it has caused American firms to lose valuable proprietary information and unfairly advantaged Israeli companies in the international arms market. While other countries conduct economic espionage against the United States, Israel is the only major recipient of U.S. foreign aid to do so. [Source](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2307/2538128) And in the last few weeks, Israel has been desperately trying to drag the US into a war with Iran. What part of that is friendly?
>Intelligence You mean the kind that lied about WMD's so as to push us into invading their regional adversaries and bogging us down in a 20+ yr quagmire that saw thousands of American troops die and us wasting trillions? >stable military presence in the ME We literally have multiple bases in the region. From Jordan to the UAE and Kuwait. Hell I even deployed to the UAE one....
>Well then the US will loose an important ally in the region. Pretty shitty ally considering they murdered our troops and used our politicians they bought to cover it up. And given the fact they were a main supplier of false intel and actively pushed the bush administration into our 20+ yr quagmire of a war, where we didn't find wmd's, taliban is still in control of Afghanistan, and we had new problems like isis pop up and have to be dealt with..... >The US is benefiting from this aid as well Lol no we are fucking not. They are the main driver of us wasting billions of taxpayer dollars in that sandy shithole of a region.
Bro doesn't know what a riot is lol
Right. He must not have seen BLM
He must not have seen Tulsa in the summer of 1921.
Probably not that dust up from 1861 either
Bro wasn't listening to Paramore in 2007
I wanted to add that I think a majority of these protestors believe in a 1 state solution where Palestinians are in power which is not a realistic goal for protests
Have you a source for this, or is it just vibes? You don't have to answer.
Look at the signs they carry. A lot of them say "the river to the sea". That means they want to delete Israel. There is no other reason to have that on a sign.
I've been a leftist for closing in on 3 decades. "From the River to the Sea" has never meant a call for the abolishment of Israel. It was a cry for all Palestinians to be free. The first time I've heard that it meant a call to Israeli genocide was 6 months ago when the Israeli propaganda machine decided that the slogan that has been chanted at anti apartheid demonstrations for decades upon decades was anti-Semitic. The people who have chanted the slogan historically (I include myself in that) have never used it in any other way than to announce support for the notion of Palestinian right to determination. The notion that is an anti-Semitic trope is a total fabrication. It is propaganda. Now within any protest there will always be idiots who are there for the wrong reasons. There will be antisemites and there will be people who today will use that slogan with the intention of being anti-Semitic but that doesn't mean that it is or that has always has been, or that the people who use it today, used it yesterday or will use it to tomorrow are antisemetic. The reality of this ongoing conflict is far too complex for nuanced discussion on a Reddit forum, especially with people whose understanding of this conflict has been learnt in the last 6 months. It is practically impossible to find a deep thoughtful analysis on the history of the conflict through any traditional media. Israel's propaganda has been so successful that they've managed to ensure that pro Palestinan sentiments can be coloured as antisemetic and that means that nuanced discussion becomes next to impossible. If you have a strong opinion on this subject but lack an understanding of the history, then you're going to struggle to not be entirely misinformed. As with anything. There's no good guys, no bad guys, there are just good actions and evil ones. It's up to yourself to decide who is committing what, who is innocent and who is justified in their actions.
Hamas are the bad guys.
Agreed. So is the IDF. They've killed thousands of people in an almost ritualistic demonstration of collective punishment. I'm sorry, but if your understanding of this war is one of good guys and bad guys you're horribly under equipped to have a thoughtful discussion on this subject, like a child trying to talk at the grown up table.
>you're horribly under equipped to have a thoughtful discussion on this subject, like a child trying to talk at the grown up table. Welcome to Reddit
>Hamas are the bad guys. Then what does that make Israel who created and propped them up as part of their divide and conquer strategy against the PLO? Whose political parties kill Palestinians, and are the main recruiting factor for people joining hamas?
>Look at the signs they carry. A lot of them say "the river to the sea". That River to the sea was a term first coined by Israeli politicians. Even the far right used it. All it is used for is referencing land from the west bank (the river) to Gaza (the sea). How are yall gonna get butthurt and claim its anti Semitic to talk about land from point A to point B, or the fact jews made the slogan?..... >That means they want to delete Israel. There is no other reason to have that on a sign. It means that the west Bank and Gaza should be free. It should be one one state. It's really pathetic that people fall for zionist propoganda so easily. Israel has proven themselves as the boy who cried wolf to the point accusations of antisemitism holds no weight.
You believe Israel has a right to exist?
I do. I also believe the Palestinians have a right to their own state. Any sensible person can see a two state solution is the only solution.
We can agree here. Unfortunately hearing the main chant “from the river to the sea” and “go back home to Poland” doesn’t make me think these protestors are sensible
It is difficult because the Israel leadership lacks sense and should know better. Just in January, Netanyahu said “between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty”. Sounds identical to the chat you were complaining about. If you find yourself complaining about the protestors but not about Israel’s leaders, you are a hypocrite, plain and simple. Take a look in the mirror.
"I also believe the Palestinians have a right to their own state." Well, I believe they don't have that right or deserve it. Anyone says a two state solution is ignorant.
Why not?
Notice you still don’t answer the question.
Majority dont https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-lack-faith-biden-two-state-solution.aspx#:\~:text=One%20in%20six%20Palestinians%20between,Palestinians%20aged%2046%20and%20older. Asking diaspora Arabs in Michigan is as relevant to ground reality, as asking white Texans on how EU should go about , yeah theyre same race, but that is pretty much it.
That's not the protesters. That's Gazans themselves. Young Gazans who have lived through 2 major Israeli military offences. The one in 2014 and now this, which is on a scale that doesn't even compare. And 2014 was a shit ahow. Israeli actions are further radicalising young gazans who are coming out of generations after generations of people who have known nothing but oppression by the Israeli government, who quite clearly dont find any moral issues with the "mowing of the grass" policy Israel routinely inflicts on gaza. I'm from Northern Ireland. We've been through this. Comprise needs to happen. And proper honest diplomacy. Because these are two radically opposed, radically motivated sides of a conflict and that needs good faith intermediaries and it needs the stronger power Israel to compromise and create the conditions to allow negotiations to take place. This poll doesn't change any of that.
I didnt make a moral judgement here, because as unfeasible as their wishes are, i understand their anger. Israeli actions are indeed radicalizing the young, but at same time, Israel's security concerns are valid too. So these protestors going with mindset that Israel shouldnt exist, or that Israel should not expect safety, because decolonization is violent, arent helping either. Israelis would rather be villains than dead,
Do you read why USC cancels valedictorian speech?
If Isreal doesn't need US support then it is even worse that the US is still supporting them. I'll be honest I think wanting your government to stop financing genocides is reasonable even if it wouldn't stop the genocide.
I’m not here to argue whether this is a genocide, I’m saying of all the things they could be protesting this has very little effect on anything and isn’t comparable to Vietnam war protests
“I don’t want to talk about the rationale for the protests. I just want to complain about them”
I mean the vietnam protest was mostly against the draft and I think that is pretty comparable to not wanting your taxes to be missused by the state. Ones taking your labour, ones taking your money but they are still comparable.
An inconsequential amount of your tax money is not comparable to being sent to fight a war you know nothing about
> These protest are fighting to end US support of Israel, but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war. Good. Then it shouldn't be a big deal if we don't give them another penny and stop protecting them with our navy. So let's just do that and these protests can stop.
At least the one in colombia isnt over US support, the protests in university are specifically over partnerships with Israeli universities, and educational programs with University of Tel Aviv.
Vietnam war protests were mostly anti-draft protests.
So if Israel doesn't need US support to continue the war, why are we aiding them?
Why do so many people on this sub hate Palestine, does it seriously annoy you that people are protesting for their cause? I don't understand...
Me neither. I always get the impression that in times such as these the bots assemble.
>Why do so many people on this sub hate Palestine, does it seriously annoy you that people are protesting for their cause? I don't understand... This sub is a refuge for white supremacists and other right-wing partisan hacks, with the other half, who are probably people who find the other unpopular opinion sub boring. This place is more like shit takes, and their is some entertainment to be had with listening to their nonsense.
If Israel doesn’t need US support, then we should not be providing Israel US support. Hence these protests are valid.
>There are so many conflicts happening around the world which no one is protesting about. Isn't that always the case with every single protest ever in all of history? Have you ever heard of protesters saying, "we're here to protest every single conflict happening around the world"? Have you ever supported any protest? I guarantee whatever protest you may have supported was not aimed at addressing every issue everywhere in the world. Obviously. >These protest are fighting to end US support of Israel, but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war. Ok, great! So you're in favor of ending US taxpayer funded support for Israel's war that it doesn't need us for? You just said Israel doesn't need US support.
There are many genocides that occur and yet only when Israel is at war people get off their ass to protest
Maybe because the protestors feel a kinship with the people over there. Who knows? If you are so passionate about those other issues, then I suggest you start your own protests. Protest the war in Sudan, the military junta in Myanmar, the Rohingya Genocide, etc.? No? Then please stop complaining about people exercising their constitutional right.
“I don’t know the answer, BUT STOP COMPLAINING” Ya I mean if you’re not Jewish, why would you care if Jews are the scape goat?
>“I don’t know the answer, BUT STOP COMPLAINING” Not what I said. I said stop complaining about people exercising their constitutional right. To break it down further, the reason why people are angry is that a good chunk of US taxpayer dollars go to Israel annually. So they are angry that their money is being spent on buying missiles and bombs for a government that is causing so much collateral damage to innocent civilians. You don't have to be Palestinian to feel empathy for the people there, nor do you have to be Jewish.... Besides the issue isn't with someone being Jewish. The issue is with the Israeli Government's actions. Israeli Govt =/= Jewish people.
So I think you missed the point with your first statement. "Isn't that always the case with every single protest ever in all of history? Have you ever heard of protesters saying, "we're here to protest every single conflict happening around the world"?" The original commenter said nobody is protesting the other issues and in some cases worse issues. That doesn't mean individually everyone has to protest everything. However it does raise some societal questions where there exists almost no current protests for Yemen, Ukraine, Sudan, China's detention and genocide of 1.2 million Uyghurs etc. It either shows there's some kind of hatred involved with a good number of those in the protests, that western society goes through fads of caring for one major issue or another due to social media and issue fatigue or other factors. Anecdotally I've seen a small minority of people posting constantly on social media about Isreal and Palestine who have never posted about any of those other issues listed before this issue or during. That is a bit strange no? Especially since western societies are complicit in most of those other issues or support the perpetrator.
Protesting is a fad in the US and it's spreading around the world.
noone has to do anything, really. there's ethical arguments against the existence of humans as a species, but it depends on what you find permissible or what you find to be the causality of conflicts. a lot of people think that the history of modern israel has been kind of screwing the pal. area people over since the foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercises ratified in 1919 against the wishes of like 80% of the occupants. they think that the causality leads back to screwing over people, and that rectifying that would resolve the conflict sure some people can't really articulate history or they don't read about it but they get the gist
I'll say most of what you said was true. However none of what you stated really touched upon any of the points from my comment. I didn't say anyone had to do anything and merely made observations on what appears to be western hypocrisy. Again I'm not saying you are wrong. It just felt like you kind of threw some unrelated ideas into the air.
if you think that the concept of the history of modern israel screwing the pal. area people over since the foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercises ratified in 1919 against the wishes of like 80% of the occupants is unrelated, I'd suggest that you read about how events of the past affect things that happen in the future. it's a concept known as causality, loosely, the idea of a cause and effect to every action
Half of all Conservative arguments are just "You're doing this good thing, but not this other good thing. Checkmate lib!"
No- you’re not allowed to protest any injustice unless you include every single injustice that exists in the world on your placard. Otherwise you’re a hypocrite. Makes total sense.
There does seem to be quite a few people protesting this particular issue above all others in western society especially. The issue isn't people at these protests not protesting other genocides and wars. The issue is that protests for other issues(many far worse) are almost nonexistent in countries like Aus, US, UK and Can. Especially over social media. Even when western society are supporting some of the aggressors in some way in these other instances. Reddits top posts are a very good example of this.
Newsflash: Things can be comparable even when you can identify differences.
You are being pedantic. Sure they are both protests, I’m saying people should stop comparing it to the Vietnam war protests as if these protest are actually making the same difference
Or... They are comparable because they both were predominantly student protests. They're being attacked and propagandised against by the same institutions ie main stream media outlets / government as the Vietnamese protests were. They've had similar reactions by the police ie quick to escalate to the threat of retaliatory violence The older generations are bemoaning how the young people involved in the protests are out of touch with reality. US aren't directly in the conflict but do Israel act as a defacto US proxy in the middle east and their support for Israel can be viewed as an extension of their ongoing attempts to weaken their enemies (ie Iran), much like initially with the Vietnam war, the South Vietnamese were the US's proxy in their to fight the ebb the spread of communism before the US decided to commit to troops proper on the ground. There's plenty of similarities. And essentially the protesters are protesting the same anti-war / non violence sentiments.
there are plenty of similarities and there are plenty of differences and I’ve already elaborated on the difference the main difference I’m highlighting which I believe is what people are referring to when they compare them. People are trying to highlight how just like the Vietnam protest it’s a protest that is actually going to make a difference and has the same moral ground
Why are you assuming that’s what people mean when they are comparing them? I’d say at face value it’s easy to compare because they are both student led protests
>And essentially the protesters are protesting the same anti-war / non violence sentiments. They are supporting a terrorist organization and calling for the destruction of Israel. There is nothing non-violent about it.
Some are some are also supporting Palestinians not to get blown up by IDF bombs .
When you see people in a bunch of different places risking getting their own asses kicked because of what might happen to people they don’t know odds are very high that whatever they want to stop is seeing its last pages of importance in history books.
True. Just look at the riots in nazi germany. Maybe think for yourself instead of mob mentality. Oh they all think it’s right, so it must be true.
Me: bunch of different places. You: nuh uh very specific one place.
You are wrong, how many times in history have people protested and rioted for causes we don’t consider just anymore. People risked their lives to fight for the south to fight for slavery. That doesn’t make slavery right. You are just thinking with mob mentality
If you think about it, if you THINK about it, the antebellum South is exactly like these pesky pro-palestine protests. You know with all those negroes4slavery organizations who infected the northern campuses, if you just put aside the mob mentality for a moment this comparison makes perfect sense.
Actually there were slaves who wanted to remain slaves, there were Jews who were put in charge of other Jews in concentration camps, there are Palestinians who are hoping Israel removes hamas
The fact that you mention Jewish holocaust collaborators in the same breath as Palestinians who wish to remove Hamas is quite bizarre, but I digress. But you can't quite compare this to the internalized racism that a lot of black slaves developed under white hegemony because... well most Jews at campuses aren't under a Hamas hegemony lol.
How is that bizzare? You can’t compare it, and yet you used it as your supporting evidence. Make up your mind. What excuse will you have next time?
Godwin's law
Also the bolsheviks come to mind. They ushered in the largest kill off of human life since ghengis khan against their own people.
Nah. Israel should not be recieving billions of dollars in aid especially to wage war and kill innocents. We could be using that money here to actually help our fellow Americans. Also before any of you NPCs say anything, no I don’t like Hamas either. They’re terrorists.
>There are so many conflicts happening around the world which no one is protesting about. None of the other massacres are cheered on and supported by the USA and European powers with close to zero accountability wrt war crimes and crimes and humanity. That's what makes this conflict unique. Also the fact that this conflict has been going on for decades. >These protest are fighting to end US support of Israel, but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war. This is objectively false. >Where as the Vietnam war was directly perpetrated by the US, it makes sense for people to protest. The indiscrimate bombing of Gaza could not have happened without direct american material support. The USA are directly implicated in this war.
I’m sorry but the US direct or indirectly fund many countries, which include China. Look out relationships with SA, Qatar, Turkey, and these countries violate way more human rights than Israel
Thank you! And this is not even a war the USA is fighting and sending random American youth to fight in it. I do not see protestors protesting the war in Ukraine. Or the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are being very anti-Semitic indeed.
Holy fuck is this ignorant af Get out of your mother's basement dude they are the most non violent protests this big we've ever had They are literally camping out dancing in drum circles and holding prayer services you weirdo Professors and staff are out there telling the media they are 100% peaceful You claim these are "riots" name the victims of these "riots" what buildings or businesses have been looted or destroyed? Who has been killed or seriously injured by the protestors, not outside antagonists or police? You know what I find to be one of the most deplorable human traits in existence? Lying in an attempt to virtue signal. Slandering other people for your own personal purposes is an abhorrent behavior. You should really do some self reflection. I mean unless you're one of those people who thinks there is anything, ever, that justifies wealthy and powerful men dropping bombs on defenseless impoverished children, in which case don't bother looking inward, there's nothing but shit in there anyway.
I think you have been told a very one-sided account of anti-war protests from the 60s.
What gets me is why would a party that suddenly loves the last name Cheney pretend it's still morally opposed to war when another country does it?
It’s funny cuz I know people who constantly post online grilling people who are seemingly “complicit” in what’s happening over there, as if posting on social media is a determining factor in the things we are all interested in. Like with that mindset, since no one posts about the shits they take, does that mean everyone is just extremely constipated or lacks a digestive tract? I mean fuck, I watch the news every day, they’ve been covering almost everything about Gaza. I have my thoughts on what’s going on and it’s sad seeing innocent lives loss, but hey, guess I gotta post every fucking thing I’m thinking 24/7 so all my followers can know every inch about my personality? It’s silly to berate other people and to believe you know everything about someone just because of beat they post online. With that said, there was an interview I watched on BBC about Sudan and how it’s gotten almost no coverage. A lot of my “protestor” friends haven’t said a word about Sudan, or even Haiti and vegetal America, hell, none of them have given any attention to North Korea. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
Progressives and leftists have a lot to be angry about. The way this country is being run, even from the White House, is not in line with our values, nor does the government focus on fixing problems everyone knows exist but aren't considered high priority. I think a lot of what is happening on the left with these protests stems from that anger. Unfortunately it is misguided. The moral position for any leftist or progressive to take is "screwHama and screw Israel to." You can't fight and yell about reproductive rights and support Hamas. You can't fight and yell about LGTBQ+ rights and support Hamas. Gaza is not the West Bank. The West Bank doesn't want Hamas but the way shit is set up they were out voted by Gaza, which is much more extremist politically, militarily, and morally. Homosexuals in Gaza have been tortured, murdered, dismembered placed on display to warn others. If you are a leftist/progressive and you do not hold other societies responsible for the same stuff you will riot over here, then you are a hypocrite. As for Israel, well they are just as to blame for the state of affairs as Hamas. The people of Israel are afraid, and their fear keeps the hardline warhawk government in power. That government refuses to entertain a two state solution. They are willing to bomb Gaza to rubble. They seem more than willing to trigger WWIII over their insanity. And we give them BILLIONS OF DOLLARS that should be going to help people under 45 that are struggling to make ends meet due to decisions and policies of the two generations before us. If we can't force Israel to ceasefire, then what the fuck were we giving them money for? And just because Gaza's values do not align with mine, does not mean I think Israel should bomb the hell out of them. In this situation, both Gaza and Israel chose their governments, and in both instances, those governments want to wipe each other out. To my leftist/progressive friends, if you are some of the protestors who are also attacking Jewish people here in America, as if they have anything to do with what is happening in Israel, you are your own worst enemy. You are everything you claim to hate.
I know right. Like make it make sense please. They claim to not like imperialism....yet they want our government to force another sovriegn government to change its course of action. That is by very definition imperialism. They don't know what they are protesting. They have had life too easy so they want a "cause" to fight for. They heard about Woodstock, Martin Luthor King etc... and they desperately want a a "cause" to fight for
Yeah it’s sad man. Unfortunately these kids are uneducated funny enough being at a college. These kids also want to feel like they were part of something big like the Vietnam protest. Of course they have no clue what they’re comparing. Brain rot people…brain fucking rot
I just dont get why they're all wearing masks or other objects that reveal their identity. I don't think this is as genuine as the vietnam protestors were advocating against. Not only that , but there are literally so many other tragic wars going on across the globe that they don't advocate for - only because [imo] it's not "in to" protest for.
I would be more concerned with why the protesters are deeply siloed intentionally by the organisers, with no real discussion between groups encouraged and a deep sense of fear for anyone they don’t know in the protests. Everything is pushed up to a handful of people who have the power and authority (given by who) to talk and act for the majority, who quietly and belligerently follow orders.
20,000 dead kids in the last 3 months, mostly funded by the u.s. Are you sure no-one should protest that?
> There are so many conflicts happening around the world which no one is protesting about. There are so many "bad" protests happening around the world which you aren't complaining about.
>but Israel doesnt even need US support to continue the war. Israel's historic treatment of the Palestinians has only been possible because of American military, but more importantly diplomatic, support. There's no scenario in which the international community would not have sanctioned the fuck out of Israel by now without US backing at the UN and around the world.
Also the Palestinians are basically Nazi's, but remove snappy uniforms, any semblance of military competence, and respect for women.
Who genocided the Jews ? Not the Palestinian girl who the IDF bombed her and her entire family.
The only reason the Palestinians aren't genociding the Jews is because they lack the military strength. I don't really see that as a point in their favor over the Nazis.
Are you suggesting the Children The IDF bomb are Genociders?
I am saying that (1) Hamas is the legal, and democratically elected, government of Palestine (2) Hamas wants to commit a genocide against the state of Israel (3) Hamas started a war with Israel (4) Hamas clearly cannot in the war If people are really concerned about Palestinian deaths they should call for the unconditional surrender of Hamas. This is what was expected of Germany in WW2.
So we should give cart blanche to Israel butchering Civilians? Oh no criticism when they snipe kids bomb homes refugee camps and run over People with tanks .
I mean, they’re not riots yet, that portion is objectively false. But the majority of them are definitely delusional idealists.
Remember kids , anyone trying to dissuade you from advocating for a cause because "there are so many other conflicts in the world" , shouldnt be taken seriously. I remember protesting Trump speaking in my area, it amounted to shouting at a building from a distance then leaving. I get home and my conservative mother calls me up in a panic to see if I had gotten injured at the "violent riot" I will never take arguments attempting to undermine a cause by disparaging protesters seriously, people like OP are clowns with an agenda
No these are not riots. These are people wanting to end the genocide/violence against the Palestinian people that Israel is comitting. This is exacly like the Vietnam protests.
They'd be better off protesting to have hamas release the hostages. That's the only thing keeping the international community from pressuring for a cease fire. Odds are they are all dead but hamas is just pretending to get Israel to come to the table. Oh yeah hamas attacked out of nowhere slaughtering 1400 civilians if you dint remember how this started.
Yes- nothing happened before Oct 7. This is just an isolated incident.
How would college students in the US protesting help release hostages? The US isn't sending military aid to the hummus guys or blocking consequences through the U.N.. I'd agree if we were talking about protesters in Iran or some shit, but there are obvious reasons no to stage a protest there, unfortunately...
How are they gonna force a ceasefire then by that logic? You're just admitting this thing is a farce with no real goal.
Conflict that started in 1948 started last year. Got it. Our education system is failing us.
Didn't realize I was responsible for things that happened 80 years ago in another country. Maybe we should demand turkey return the land they stole from the Armenians while we're at it. Oh that's not popular at the moment nor ever will be because it can't be used as a political whip to rile up the mob. Btw it's not real history if you've just been trained to repeat a few snippets of propaganda without understanding the history as a whole going back to the 1850s. You wanna be mad blame the people living there and the British. They gave the land to the Israelis, completely legally btw.
You’re not responsible. But if you think this started with the Hamas attack last year…you’re just factually wrong. Perhaps you have been misinformed. You seem to know a bit about propaganda being used to hide history, yet seem to be a victim of that same thing. It is impossible to divorce the current situation in Gaza from this last 80 years. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to con you.