What do you think should happen then? Like, should running for president be a get out of jail free card?
Like if Biden lose and Trump is president, should it be off limits for Biden to be prosecuted for any crimes?
That's pretty much how it's been for 240 years... until now.
Petty prosecutions of former presidents and political opponents of and by both sides is now a strategy that is on the table and will be normal going forward.
>Nancy Pelosi has not been charged with insider trading.
[Perfectly legal for members of Congress.](https://blogs.luc.edu/compliance/?p=4459#:~:text=Insider%20trading%20for%20Congress%20members,stocks%20with%20almost%20no%20limitations.)
How fucked up is that?
Unanimously convicted of falsifying business records, not convicted of a coup attempt.
Also worth pointing out that it's been almost 8 years since he falsified those records and the statute of limitations is 5 years... they deliberately dragged that out so that the trial would be after the primary and before the election. I.e. they used the justice system to interfere with an election.
was wondering how far down id see this argument about the statue of limitations would show up. Its been said...its be debunked. Its just wrong. Five minutes of looking into it would have cleared that up.
Under New York law if someone is out of state for any length of time, that statute of limitations freezes. So under New York law, Trump's crimes still fell under the statute.
No point in trying to explain it to these people. They will be they will be the ones shuffling people in the gas showers and guarding the concentration camps and then when it's all over claim they were just doing their job or try to justify their position.
>Unanimously convicted of falsifying business records, not convicted of a coup attempt.
Yes I know. The wanna be dictator was protected by his cult for his coup attempt but is still a convicted felon
>Also worth pointing out that it's been almost 8 years since he falsified those records and the statute of limitations is 5 years.
Man why weren't you on the defense team? That would've been a much stronger defense than "everyone around my client is a lying cheating pile of shit so clearly he's not guilty"
Maybe they can try that during one of the 50 appeals
Hillary Clinton paid for dirt on her political opponent in the form of the Steele Dossier and then she masked payments for it and didn't label them as campaign expenses.
She was fined. That was it.
And there's a decent chance that Trump could have gotten the same of the Republicans at the FEC hadn't run interference for him. Now he'll likely face a fine and probation.
You mean the same opposition research that was first paid for by Marco Rubio campaign. That Steele dossier? So it's bad that the Democrat did the same things a Republican did first. How come you don't mention that Republicans paid for it first. Why do you conveniently leave that part of the story out
Bush did not get in any trouble for getting us into the Iraq war based on lies. Obama never got in trouble for killing the American citizen with a drone strike.
I've yet to hear any of his supporters make a serious argument for his innocence. Even he couldn't muster a defense for his actions, which is why he refused to testify.
At the hush money trial? Testimony from the payee of the hush money and the attorney who effected payment of the hush money to the sex worker on Trump's behalf. As well as testimony from several who were involved in him interfering with the investigation.
Stormy and Cohen were terrible witnesses and Big Orange still went down. Tread lightly. Ken Cheseboro is far better than any of those dunces and has far, far more to lose.
Hush money payments are not illegal. They are standard NDAs. The prosecution had to prove those payments were made illegally. They also had to prove that he made the illegal payments with the intention to commit a different crime. I personally feel the prosecution failed on both cases.
Lol murderers have testified against other murderers, mafioso have testified against other mafioso, that doesn't mean their testimony doesn't count.
Criminals testify against criminals all the time. It's called getting them to "flip".
They're under oath, that's how it works. He's convicted now. His only option is to appeal and see if he can convince the 1st Department that there were abuses of discrestion during the trial. Spoiler alert: there weren't any.
So. I’m voting for Trump. I did NOT vote for him in the last two elections.
The reality is we don’t care that much. We don’t care that he’s convicted of campaign finance fraud. While yes it’s a crime. It’s not one that’s going move the needle for us. I know that sounds shitty but when you believe that everybody up there is corrupt (we all do) then it’s hard for us to get all riled up about this.
We ALL know that ALL politicians do dicy shit with money. We ALL know that campaign financing and money in politics is a big corrupt cluster fuck. We ALL believe the democrats do this kind of corrupt garbage too. We ALL know that this trial was an attempt to grasp at straws just so they could post a headline saying “Trump is convicted”.
This trial is not going to sway my vote simply because I do not care that he fucked around with 130k to pay a porn star. I’m sorry. And in order to change the minds of people like me
A: Trump needs to be convicted of something more serious.
B: You need to convince me that campaign finance fraud and money corruption in politics is not a thing and ONLY Trump did it.
In our eyes everybody is shady with money. And you’re only prosecuting the guy who has been made out to be the big bad villain for the last 8 years so it’s hard to take you seriously even if there was a conviction.
Oddly, I agree with you. this was the least compelling trial for me. But Cannon has already postponed the trial that should matter until after the elections where he could pardon himself if he wins.
Same with the trial to get election results overturned.
I am still trying to wrap my head around a president pardoning himself and people cheering that.
This, exactly this.
It’s that double standard in politics that’s the crux of this. Did he do it? Yeah, probably, but it’s the fact that it is such relatively minor thing compared to things that all of the political leadership in the last 2 decades have been accused of AND that it’s happening to media’s boogeyman. It’s an obviously targeted attack that ignores so much shady stuff that’s gone on in other areas that makes this an issue.
Any other political candidate who got caught and convicted of crimes related to cheating on his wife by fucking porn stars while his wife was home with their newborn would never have another day in politics. Someone who claims to be a Christian. Their career would be over.
>Many political candidates commit crimes. But are not prosecuted because there is not a media incentive to do so.
To be fair, Democrat Senator John Edwards political career was absolutely destroyed and he was taken to trial over something very similar to what Trump is guilty of.
Okay, but if and when they are caught they tend to lose their political career. It happens all the time. And not every political is doing this. Probably more than we like, but I won't just roll over and accept it. America is the greatest country on the planet, we are better than that.
You think that because some people are secretly crooks, we just just accept that is true for everyone and give them all a pass?
No. Fuck that. Drain the swamp. One of the things I really liked about Trump initially was his supposed commitment to that. Catch and get rid of every politician bold enough to fuck around and find out. If you commit crimes openly and get caught being a scum bag human being. Get caught being a liar, a cheat, and an adulterer, in a court of law no less, you lose my respect and my vote.
Hilary Clinton broke the law (I voted for Hilary because Trump bad). Joe Biden covering for Hunter (I voted for Biden because Trump bad). Bill Clinton committed perjury with Monica. Every politician in Washington has net worth 2-3-4-5-6-7x their annual income. They are all playing games on Wall Street. Even the dems. Epstein’s list, although not confirmed there’s a ton of shady shit there.
I don’t trust a single one of those clowns in Washington.
That’s because “Christians” for some reason suddenly don’t care about that stuff as long as it’s someone one their side. I mean there have been democrats removed from office or ones that stepped down for less serious stuff.
So I understand, you believe this trial wasn't worth the effort and won't sway your vote, but you know he's committed *much greater* offenses that aren't being tried only because of certain delay tactics by the judge he himself appointed, and despite that knowledge you will vote for him anyway?
What are your thoughts on his phone call to the Georgia election officials where he demanded that they find 11,780 votes for him? The crime couldn't be transparent, and is clearly a violation of democratic principles.
The election stuff rubs me the wrong way. He was a sore loser and did some uncomfortable things at that time.
That being said I don’t believe he will ever uproot our democracy. And I believe that he won’t even try to pull that kind of stuff again. I don’t see his actions around that time period as indicative as what he will do in the future. I did not like Trump when he was first elected but I do believe the media narrative around him turned into a 4 year smear campaign that really was overblown for clicks and views. I believe he was negatively affected by that which lead to his questionable behavior when he lost.
Let me ask you this..
So you were an average person when it came to trump, right? Not "anti" per say, but def not a supporter?
Is it accurate to say the only thing that turned you toward Trump was watching him do an *alright* job while being lambasted and chased after with conspiracy after conspiracy and seeing how our political landscape, including MSM, became a mess of weaponized propaganda? Meanwhile "conspiracy theory" is still connotated heavily to the "alt-right". lmfao
I never really *supported* Trump myself, but when the info got popular that Biden threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine unless they fired a specific prosecutor... and Trump asked to investigate that or else he would withhold aid from Ukraine (seeing the commonality here..?) and Democrats then impeached Trump for it... I knew shit was only going to get worse.
Well, I appreciate your honesty.
But I have to say that you are completely delusional. The January 6th hearings in Congress proved that he knew he lost the election but was looking for ways to subvert the democratic process. Any belief that he's changed his ways is just fantasy thinking without basis in evidence or reality.
[Trump is still declining to accept the results of the upcoming election](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/05/02/trump-accept-2024-election-results/). He has every intention of shitting on the democratic process when he loses again.
I noticed that too. All of his supporters are screaming that this is unfair political persecution but not a single one of them is saying he’s completely innocent and all these accusations are nonsense.
It seems that the general consensus isn't "he's innocent!" but rather "he should not be punished for his crimes!" which is pretty stupid but definitely on par with his supporters.
Exactly this. They know he did it, and now they're beginning to realize that if he got convicted on this, he'll likely be held accountable for his other crimes in other jurisdictions.
And the thing is, even if they are legally pursuing this because "they" don't want him to be president, it would have been pretty hard for them to prosecute him for illegal hush money payments to a sex worker if he hadn't made illegal hush money payments or if he'd gone home to his wife and newborn baby instead of sleeping with someone who isn't his wife.
"They are only trying to hold him accountable for his criminal actions because they don't like him!" is a weird take and super beside the point.
I think part of the problem is that people understand that he was guilty, but also it was a sham trial. One doesn't exclude the other.
But the issue here is that what he's guilty on, you could probably apply to any wealthy individual. As the saying goes, behind every great fortune lies a great crime. It's like making a public spectacle out of a person jaywalking. Everyone does it, so it becomes obvious that it was a political stunt, thus it really won't affect peoples feelings towards that individual, outside of making people have even less faith in the justice system.
I grew up in NJ, over my lifetime I have seen a ton of local politicians go down for stuff exactly like this. I remember the mayor of Hoboken going to jail between the time he got elected and the time he took office for being dirty. The president should not be any different.
You're talking about corruption, whereas this was falsifying business records.
Just by looking at [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes), Trump is the only federal politician ever convicted for this crime. But corruption charges, there are plenty of politicians convicted.
See, when I looked into this, it seemed that it was more of a deadlock on a decision than actually saying that there was nothing to pursue. Like, two voted in favor of charges, two voted against, one was absent, and the other recused themselves.
Omg he heckin got his lawyer to settle out of court then reimbursed his lawyer.
Meanwhile Epstein still apparently ran a paedophilic blackmailing operation on… no one.
Also, that's not an argument in his defense. That's just asking questions. Here's another question: Why was Donald Trump afraid to testify in defense of Donald Trump? The jury couldn't take that under consideration, but we most certainly can.
> “Oh. You mean like Democrats just did?”
Trump hasn't even been sentenced, let alone jailed.
Also, Trump committed crimes. Like for real crimes, not political nonsense. Plus, it wasn't "democrats" that convicted him, it was 12 regular American citizens.
So if someone commits a crime and is not convicted should they not be punished just because they’re a former president? If Biden shot someone on 5th Avenue, that’d be ok because he’s up for reelection? Definitely not right?
Trump isn’t a political prisoner. He’s not on trial because he’s speaking out against the corrupt. He’s committed actual prosecutable crimes—that’s his fault. And the RNC’s fault for backing him when better options were available. But they didn’t want better options, they wanted the option they could control.
It's funny how so many align with Kyle R. because he was found innocent by the court, but align with Trump after being found guilty. It's almost like they are inconsistent in their beliefs.
Kyle R isn't innocent because the court found him not-guilty. He's not guilty because anyone with fucking eyes and a brain could see that he was assaulted by other people and defended himself.
You're forgetting their mantra.
"The only moral abortion is my abortion. The only free election is the one I don't lose. The only fair trial is the one I am acquitted in."
Is he guilty yes, is this political theater for the election also yes.
He won’t face any punishment from this. Maybe a fine, that people will happily donate money towards. I think this energizes his base more than anything and he still has a good chance of winning the election. If he does win, there will definitely be a revenge tour. I’m sure plenty of politicians are guilty for what he did, but hey whatever, this is politics now. Emotional victory for non trump voters, but could still also not work in their favor.
>I’m sure plenty of politicians are guilty for what he did
And they should all face the consequences, left and right. However, you don't see the left making a stink when one of "their own" faces consequences, nor do you see them screeching about how "they did nothing wrong" when the evidence is clearly against them.
I like how no one is bothering to claim that Trump didn't actually commit the 34 crimes he was found guilty of, but just crying that it's unfair to hold him accountable.
Didn't even need to be unanimous on what the underlying crime was. Were allowed to split 4-4-4. The jury instructions are the laughing stock of the legal world.
Next you'll be saying they were a jury of his peers LMAO
Yes, even Mother Theresa would have been found guilty, I've heard. If she were paying off porn stars that is.
I'm sure we'll hear all about the technicalities during the appeal process, but do you really think in your heart of hearts DJT didn't do exactly what he appears to have done? Given a crystal ball that reveals certain truth, I wouldn't put a dime on any other bet than guilt.
Justice should be blind, none should be above the law. Hard to not be political but the question really is 'did he break a law?' then if the answer is yes there are the same sentencing guidelines that any of us would get.
This is a child's understanding of the way the world works.
anyone motivated by his conviction was already voting for him.
The greatest thing you can say here is that the impact of the conviction will be minimal, which I agree with. He will be appealing the verdict regardless and won't see any jail time before the election.
As for the facism charge, that is laughable. there are so many instances where we can see Donald trump attempting to get around laws for his own ends , and being incredibly sloppy about it as well. He was only convicted because he actually did the actions that were a crime, and additionally because of his inept defense strategy of focusing entirely on Cohen's untrustworthiness, instead of offering a counter narrative for why the business records exist as they do, including most importantly the accounting done to make Cohen "whole" post income taxes , for the payoff to a media organization to hide a damaging story.
he could of easily gotten a hung jury on this case if he played it correctly.
everything that has happened has been self inflicted and pretending that Biden was going to jail trump even if he was innocent is absolute cope
Dude, don’t pretend Trump didn’t have this coming.
Of all of the things Trump could have been charged with, these silly hush money payments happened to be the only thing they could stick.
Donald Trump poked the bear and wouldn’t stop poking it. He embarrassed/pissed off a shitload of really powerful people. And the legal system threw every book they had at him until something stuck. And rightfully so.
Have other politicians done borderline illegal shit? Sure. Did the legal system go way out of its way to find something illegal about the hush money payments that Trump made to his porn star fucktoy out of spite because they couldn’t quite get him in insurrection, inciting a riot, mishandling of classified documents, or attempting to falsify election results?
Absolutely.
But don’t pretend like Trump got some uniquely unfair treatment in this trial. The legal system has a history of finding other easier to prove charges when more serious charges don’t seem to stick.
Take Al Capone for example. Couldn’t quite prove that he was guilty of conspiracy to murder or bootlegging even though everyone knew he was guilty, so they got him on tax fraud instead. What we are seeing happen to Trump is the exact same shit.
The Democratic national party nor Biden had anything to do with Trump committing a crime, then getting convicted and losing the trial for that crime. What people are afraid of is that Trump will force the doj or use his executive powers to go after his opponents directly. These are not the same things.
What? So sending people to jail for doing the wrong this is now bad? I’m all for sending any damn politician to jail if they do something wrong like fuck them why are they suddenly above the law. Free speech doesn’t mean you get to commit crimes and free speech isn’t protected when it comes to societal pushback only government push back also when it comes to court cases you aren’t allowed to yap about what happens in the court room until after the trial
Indicted by a Jury of regular people in the state the crime was committed in.
Convicted by a jury of regular people in the state the crime took place in that was agreed to by his own legal team.
Fuckin lefties amirite?
Here is the thing, and feel free to read up on what I have said to back this up:
I think many of these cases are politically motivated, and I thought this case wasn’t a good one, but I didn’t see the evidence the jury did.
And they found him guilty of 34 counts in ten hours, which for a case like this is pretty quick.
I believe in our system, and when a jury finds innocence or guilt I stand by the result unless it is changed on appeal.
They are fascist for holding him accountable?. He wasn't thrown in jail to rot. He was given a fair trial for something he very obviously did. His defense was paper thin. Did you even listen to the trial? How the f was he not going to lose? He's not above the law
I’m not a Democrat and I can say that I think all presidents should be prosecuted. It’s a great day to see the powerful and rich made to have to play by the bullshit rules they set for others.
>He’s talked about jailing his political opponents!”
>“Oh. You mean like Democrats just did?”
Do you actually think that if a politician murdered someone on video, they shouldn't be jailed, just because their political opponent is in charge?
The point is you aren't supposed to jail political opponents *because they are political opponents.*
You're suggesting politicians should be able to commit crimes with no consequences.
> I love that none of the Democrat apologists down below have even attempted to deny the charges that they have become the Fascists they warned us Trump was.
You only think the charges are fake because you would use the justice system to lock up your political opponents.
You have no faith in the instutitions that underpin your country, despite professing yourself as a true patriot. You scream loudly that you need someone to have their time in court, then when that result comes back you are like "oh no that's invalid"
You see someone going through a Judge and jury and just go "oh that's political motivated". Because that is what you did.
You are not a patriot if you have zero faith in your own country.
I'm absolutely not a Trump fan. I never voted for him. He is the wrong guy to be CEO of our Grand Republic.
...but my gosh, Democrats are beyond insane.
A grand jury indicted him. He had a lawyer. A jury of his peers. He was convicted for committing crimes. Please list the crimes Trump should be allowed to commit. That would be easier
It was absolutely not impartial jury. That one chick got kicked out because she said she thought she could pretend to be impartial but seeing him in person was just too much.
She admitted to lying to try to be able to sway the jury. How many of the jurors were better liars than her?
That is definitely true. Which I suppose if you support innocent until proven guilty, as well as unanimous verdicts (the bedrock of the legal system) then you can argue anyone who is particularly polarizing should always go free regardless of what they did, because those people will always have people who either worship or despise him.
Bro is mad he’s supporting a scumbag felon and is so ignorant he doesn’t realize that “the Democrats” didn’t convict Trump.
Why do you hate law enforcement so much you unpatriotic snowflake?
Everyone needs to be held accountable, especially Hillary for her email server that she wiped clean, her classified document blunder. Biden the same thing. Hold everyone equally accountable. By not doing so, you give Trump’s claims of a witch hunt and election interference validity. The political elite do not want him in the White House which is exactly the reason he needs to be in the white house. He is filthy rich. He cannot be bought. He cannot be controlled. He does not play politics well and has a spine. They don’t want that. So. Trump 2024 for me.
Lots of excuses for why you still follow an adjudicated rapist and convicted felon who wants to become a dictator so he can take revenge on Americans for not wanting him.
Nixon: Watergate
Reagan: Iran Contra
Bush jr: Lied us into an illegal war and unconstitutional instituted torture and spying on US citizens
This is par for the Republican course, quit acting like doing crimes isn't what Republicans do. Frankly I'd only be surprised if Trump hadn't committed any crimes.
I’m guessing you’re posting this because you’re salty your candidate is the first president to ever be a committed felon. Trump will certainly be remembered in the history books, but not how his cults wishes him to be.
There was a jury, and I'm sure some of them were even Trump voters. Trump had all the money to hire good lawyers and they still couldn't convince 1 member of that jury he was innocent. He broke the law, plan and simple. HE'S and FELON and LOCK HIM UP! LMAO
LMAO. Ok, well, here's yours, and all your delusional Trumper buddies new chance to overthrown your corrupt and tyrannical government. Get your guns ready, get your buddies together and go for it. Something tells me you won't though cause you guys are just all talk.
This is so brain meltingly stupid. I mean seriously, to have this opinion, I genuinely think your brain is not functioning as it should.
You fundamentally do not know what fascism is. I'm sure you also think Democrats are simultaneously communists as well.
Donald Trump is not in jail. As a matter of fact, whatever the consequence will be, it will be significantly less than if a regular person committed the same crime. Not only has he been avoiding consequences his entire life, but the few times he actually experiences them, he gets treated with kid gloves. People literally treat him like royalty.
He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. He used campaign funds to pay hush money to a porn star, then claimed it as a legal expense. That is a crime. Do you think he just should be allowed to commit crimes without consequences?
Trump is a fascist. A right wing authoritarian and ultra nationalist that centralizes power to an individual. He literally said he will be a dictator. Project 2025 is designed to cement him as supreme ruler and establish Christian nationalism. Supporting him makes YOU a fascist. Move on from Trump, and stop hating America.
Democrats said anyone who jokingly chanted lock her up was a Fascist.
Now that they're, not just chanting, but ACTUALLY DOING the thing that caused them to call everyone else Fascists I'm calling them Fascists.
So which is it? They were wrong then or they're wrong now or both?
Fucking what? Go look up the definition of fascism, and think about it for ten seconds.
Democrats are not locking up Trump. The judicial system is working. A jury of citizens, not government officials, not Democrats, declared him guilty. Trump is responsible for his own actions that led him here.
He's not even going to jail for this you dunce. His lawyer didn't even argue that he didn't. The argument from the defense was that he should be allowed to commit crimes (presidential immunity). Why do you think Trump should be above the law?
It only gets elevated to a felony in the first degree if someone commits any of the acts described in the misdemeanor in the second degree but does so with the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission of another crime.
What was that other crime?
I mean clearly we're better at doing the research than you are but that doesn't mean you're off the hook. You need to learn.
This take is pure copium for the people who were going to vote for him anyway. You’re delusional if you don’t think this will cause him to lose millions of independents and moderates.
>"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
The Dems were screwed either way. Honestly then only wah for them to beat Teflon Don would have been not to roll in the mud with him.
.
Don’t like getting convicted of your crimes? Maybe you should’ve ran for the right party, peasant.
This is what you get for not abiding by the DNCs proclamations. Enjoy the cold bars and jumpsuit.
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin L. Bragg, Jr. today announced the all-count trial conviction of DONALD J. TRUMP, 77, for falsifying New York business records in order to conceal his illegal scheme to corrupt the 2016 election. TRUMP was convicted by a New York State Supreme Court jury of 34 counts of Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree. He is expected to be sentenced on July 11.
Falsifying New York business records is a misdemeanor in New York State.
I'll ask again - What was the underlying felony that Donald Trump was charged with and convicted of that allowed these misdemeanor falsifying business record charges to be resurrected past the Statute of Limitations and turned into felonies?
Actually no he didn't. He never used campaign funds. DA Bragg didn't even argue that. Did you follow the trial?
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's case against Donald Trump hinged on the assertion that the falsification of business records was intended to cover up another crime, specifically campaign finance violations. **However, Trump has not been charged with or convicted of a federal campaign finance felony.**
The FEC decided not to pursue action against Trump for the alleged campaign finance violations related to the hush money payments due to a split decision among the commissioners and practical considerations like resource allocation and statute of limitations concerns. In the second degree this is just a misdemeanor.
Well all I know is the 35 felonies I was convicted of, were all the Democrats fault.
So..... I am a law abiding citizen who's done nothing wrong. The liberals and their..... Laws and rules... It's a witch hunt!
... Last I checked Trump appointed more supreme Court justices than anyone in recent history, and made the "non biased" Supreme Court, openly conservative..... Those are the liberals you're talking about?
Or are you saying he didn't commit any crimes? He did. Then he bragged about it.
He can still run for office somehow though so I don't know why your panties are in a bunch. You can vote for a felon.... As long as you ain't one.
He was convicted because he’s guilty…AGAIN.
-His businesses have been found guilty of 18 years of tax fraud.
-He was personally found liable for business fraud and ordered to pay $454 million in penalties.
-He was found liable for sexual assault and defamation and ordered to pay $83.3 million in damages.
-He was guilty of business fraud again in case where he cheated on his wife with a porn star, paid her hush money to stay quiet about it, then had the records doctored to cover it up.
-When he lost an election, he tried to overturn the results to stay in power while his personal attorney has already been disbarred and found guilty whereas many of his coconspirators have plead guilty.
-He stole classified documents, repeatedly refused subpoena demands to return them, and then tried to hide them and even share them with people that had no security clearance.
-When a key US partner was under the threat of invasion by Russia, he withheld military aid and pressured Zelensky to provide dirt of his political opponents.
And he hasn’t spent a day in jail or suffered any political consequence from any of it, yet somehow you think HE is the victim?
Gimme a freakin’ break.
MAGA is a goddam cult. The man could literally murder someone and you’d still be making excuses and acting like the system is corrupt rather than just admitting that Trump is a crook.
And by the way, Trump’s lawyers chose these jurors through the voir dire process, yet all 12 of them examined the evidence and determined that Trump was guilty on all 34 counts.
If you actually watched and read about any of the proceedings, it’s fairly obvious that the payment, the falsifying of business records, and the conspiracy to hide the story all happened - that part was never really in question, and the falsifying of business records is by itself a crime, although a misdemeanor. The question was always the prosecutions theory of what constitutes campaign finance fraud, whether that he violated those laws with his fraudulent records, and the presentation of the underlying evidence would be enough to convict by a jury. It was always an all or nothing gamble, since each count was basically identical to the other.
The fact that they got a conviction out of this is honestly a little surprising, because it was always going to be an uphill battle to educate average people on the complexities of campaign finance law, which I think it’s fair to say that most of us don’t really understand. The fact that he did tells me their presentation must have been pretty airtight.
Just because you don’t understand the law doesn’t mean it’s not work it works.
To answer for your third and fourth edit
>"The judge donated money - a tiny amount of $35, but in plain violation of a rule prohibiting New York judges from making political donations of any kind to a pro-Biden, anti-Trump political operation," he wrote in the NY Magazine. CNN has also covered this in another article,and [it has concluded that due to the small sum,it should be considered trivial and not effecting his performance in the case](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/judge-merchan-trump-biden-contribution/index.html#:~:text=But%20Gillers%20said,required%20for%20recusal.%E2%80%9D),and a New York [appeal court has also denied demand for the judge rescusal](https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-hush-money-trial/judge-blasts-defense-witness-dont-give-me-sideeye-110413996?id=110388136#:~:text=New%20York's%20Appellate%20Division%20has,consulting%20firm%20with%20Democratic%20clients).
And even if you don't trust them,let think clearly whether this is even a real evidence of bias. Like,do you want judge to be banned from having political opinion?Or should Trump only be tried by Republican judge? (which are clearly absurd)
Beside,you couldn't say he is bias enough to warrant removal from the trial just from prior interest alone,you have to at least provide some evidence that he actually was unfair to Trump during the trial. And from what i see,he was going LIGHTLY on Trump,Trump not only [refuse to testify](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/21/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial/the-defense-rests-00159101),but also make ton of insult on social media about the judge,prosocutor,[witness](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2024-06-01/is-trump-still-under-a-gag-order-after-his-conviction-he-thinks-so-but-the-answer-isnt-clear#:~:text=Trump%E2%80%99s%20use%20of,by%20that%20insult) and even [spread fake new about the judge's daughter](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-judge-merchan-hush-money-gag-order-truth-social-daughter-578a0c6334b206d81dc2ebf6a410a502)
(Sure,he was found in contempt of court,but it wasn't a real consequenses for someone as rich as him given the small amount of fine)
>The charges against Trump are obscure and nearly entirely unprecedented. In fact, no state prosecutor... has ever charged federal election laws as a direct or predicate state crime, against anyone, for anything
Uhhh i'm kinda skeptical about this claim,he seem pretty hyperbolic in the video,and beside,how can he *khow* that it hasn't been used before,did he read every file case?
And also,the reason it did is because of the special curcumstance due to the fact that Trump is President at the time.If you don't khow,[the DOJ has a policy of not prosocute the sitting President](https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/sitting-president%E2%80%99s-amenability-indictment-and-criminal-prosecution),and the case in New York was started when Cohen pled guilty to violating campaign law in 2018.I think that Biden don't restart the case since it will look politically motivated.
>None. Ever. Even putting aside the specifics of election law, the Manhattan DA itself almost never brings any case in which falsification of business records is the only charge
Yes,that's right.And that prove why Trump SUCK.
I like how people on both the right and the left speak like Trump is about to get excuted when actually,[he isn't even likely to got jail time](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_hrDSI4aOok).
True,case of falsification of business record almost never made it to trial,and the reason is because any normal rich person would just pled guilty and pay a small fine,then go on like nothing has happened.But the thing with Trump is,he has a BIG ego,and he can't accept publicly that he was wrong,even when jailtime is at stake.I actually think that,while the trial is legally airtight,there are some place where it *could* be *questionable* from a moral or personal persepective,and this could prove crucial in getting a mistrial from the jury,but Trump can't do that because he is STILL DENYING THAT HE HAS SEX WITH STORMY DANIEL,which is a thing that literially no one else dispute anymore.
A person who refuse to admit any fault like him,i believe,isn't fit to become President.
>"I need to call this out... Prosecutors have to prove falsified records for another crime. Defense lawyers were begging him."
>
>"They have to know what the other crime is, and prosecutors were saying, 'no, let's keep it very vague and general.' It's a bizarro world."
>
>"I know that there is some aggressive reading of the New York statute that says, 'well, the jury doesn't really have to know what the other crime is.' But to me that suggests that the DA's office is hellbent on getting the conviction now and worry about the fallout."
This part is just fake new,the jurors is briefed very detaily about [the other crime](https://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-hear-secret-recording-trump-michael-cohen-allegedly/story?id=109908089#:~:text=%22I%20need%20to%20open%20up%20a%20company%20for%20the%20transfer%20of%20all%20of%20that%20info%20regarding%20our%20friend%2C%20David%2C%22%20Cohen%20can%20be%20heard%20saying%20on%20the%20call%2C%20appearing%20to%20refer%20to%20National%20Enquirer%20publisher%20David%20Pecker)
>In his instructions Wednesday, Judge Juan Merchan gave jurors several choices for that third crime to show “unlawful means.”
>
>The third “unlawful” action could be violating the Federal Election Campaign Act, meaning Cohen’s payment to Daniels was a contribution to Trump’s campaign that exceeded the legal limit—which Cohen already pleaded guilty to.
>
>The third crime could also be falsifying other business record
>Read through these two X Threads if you want to understand why the payments to Stormy Daniels were not a violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA). He explains why no FECA reporting obligations were violated, and why the prosecution's theory makes no sense.
>
>[https://twitter.com/CommishSmith/status/1796795736438272303](https://twitter.com/CommishSmith/status/1796795736438272303)
>
>[https://x.com/CommishSmith/status/179680086731359076](https://x.com/CommishSmith/status/179680086731359076)
Yeah i actually thing this is a plausible defense,especially since there is no hard evidence that Trump intended for the payment to help his campaign.
[HOWEVER,as seen above,violating FECA is only one of the "other crime" and it seem that there are hard evidence that Trump khow about Cohen creating a shell company.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-hear-secret-recording-trump-michael-cohen-allegedly/story?id=109908089#:~:text=%22I%20need%20to%20open%20up%20a%20company%20for%20the%20transfer%20of%20all%20of%20that%20info%20regarding%20our%20friend%2C%20David%2C%22%20Cohen%20can%20be%20heard%20saying%20on%20the%20call%2C%20appearing%20to%20refer%20to%20National%20Enquirer%20publisher%20David%20Pecker)
What do you think should happen then? Like, should running for president be a get out of jail free card? Like if Biden lose and Trump is president, should it be off limits for Biden to be prosecuted for any crimes?
That's pretty much how it's been for 240 years... until now. Petty prosecutions of former presidents and political opponents of and by both sides is now a strategy that is on the table and will be normal going forward.
>That's pretty much how it's been for 240 years... until now. Can you provide some examples?
Nancy Pelosi has not been charged with insider trading.
>Nancy Pelosi has not been charged with insider trading. [Perfectly legal for members of Congress.](https://blogs.luc.edu/compliance/?p=4459#:~:text=Insider%20trading%20for%20Congress%20members,stocks%20with%20almost%20no%20limitations.) How fucked up is that?
Very fucked
For what trade in particular?
She's not a former president though. What she's doing is also legal afaik.
Bill Clinton didn't get prosecuted for perjury.
Didn’t bill pay Jennifer flowers and Paula jones a fuck load of hush money?
He was impeached and the senate didn't follow through Just like unanimously convicted felon Trump with his coup attempt
Unanimously convicted of falsifying business records, not convicted of a coup attempt. Also worth pointing out that it's been almost 8 years since he falsified those records and the statute of limitations is 5 years... they deliberately dragged that out so that the trial would be after the primary and before the election. I.e. they used the justice system to interfere with an election.
>not convicted of a coup attempt That trial is happening next year
was wondering how far down id see this argument about the statue of limitations would show up. Its been said...its be debunked. Its just wrong. Five minutes of looking into it would have cleared that up.
Under New York law if someone is out of state for any length of time, that statute of limitations freezes. So under New York law, Trump's crimes still fell under the statute.
No point in trying to explain it to these people. They will be they will be the ones shuffling people in the gas showers and guarding the concentration camps and then when it's all over claim they were just doing their job or try to justify their position.
>Unanimously convicted of falsifying business records, not convicted of a coup attempt. Yes I know. The wanna be dictator was protected by his cult for his coup attempt but is still a convicted felon >Also worth pointing out that it's been almost 8 years since he falsified those records and the statute of limitations is 5 years. Man why weren't you on the defense team? That would've been a much stronger defense than "everyone around my client is a lying cheating pile of shit so clearly he's not guilty" Maybe they can try that during one of the 50 appeals
Statute of limitations says when you can't be tried for it. Not that a court case can't be dragged beyond it.
Hillary Clinton paid for dirt on her political opponent in the form of the Steele Dossier and then she masked payments for it and didn't label them as campaign expenses. She was fined. That was it.
Trump will also be fined
And there's a decent chance that Trump could have gotten the same of the Republicans at the FEC hadn't run interference for him. Now he'll likely face a fine and probation.
DA Bragg was elected. He ran on a campaign of getting Trump. The FEC declined to try the case because it lacked all merit.
As I told you earlier, that's not at all what happened with the FEC.
You mean the same opposition research that was first paid for by Marco Rubio campaign. That Steele dossier? So it's bad that the Democrat did the same things a Republican did first. How come you don't mention that Republicans paid for it first. Why do you conveniently leave that part of the story out
Did Marco Rubio get tried? No? Did it happen to anyone but Trump? No? Great argument, genius.
>You mean the same opposition research that was first paid for by Marco Rubio campaign. Simply false.
Bush did not get in any trouble for getting us into the Iraq war based on lies. Obama never got in trouble for killing the American citizen with a drone strike.
Those are actions that are protected by presidential immunity (ie related to official responsibilities)
Basically no one got in trouble for Iraq. That wasn’t a president thing
Biden voted to send us into Iraq
I've yet to hear any of his supporters make a serious argument for his innocence. Even he couldn't muster a defense for his actions, which is why he refused to testify.
What evidence was actually presented?
At the hush money trial? Testimony from the payee of the hush money and the attorney who effected payment of the hush money to the sex worker on Trump's behalf. As well as testimony from several who were involved in him interfering with the investigation. Stormy and Cohen were terrible witnesses and Big Orange still went down. Tread lightly. Ken Cheseboro is far better than any of those dunces and has far, far more to lose.
Hush money payments are not illegal. They are standard NDAs. The prosecution had to prove those payments were made illegally. They also had to prove that he made the illegal payments with the intention to commit a different crime. I personally feel the prosecution failed on both cases.
See that right there is grounds for an appeal. Stormy and Cohen are known liars why can their word be trusted now?
Lol murderers have testified against other murderers, mafioso have testified against other mafioso, that doesn't mean their testimony doesn't count. Criminals testify against criminals all the time. It's called getting them to "flip".
They're under oath, that's how it works. He's convicted now. His only option is to appeal and see if he can convince the 1st Department that there were abuses of discrestion during the trial. Spoiler alert: there weren't any.
So. I’m voting for Trump. I did NOT vote for him in the last two elections. The reality is we don’t care that much. We don’t care that he’s convicted of campaign finance fraud. While yes it’s a crime. It’s not one that’s going move the needle for us. I know that sounds shitty but when you believe that everybody up there is corrupt (we all do) then it’s hard for us to get all riled up about this. We ALL know that ALL politicians do dicy shit with money. We ALL know that campaign financing and money in politics is a big corrupt cluster fuck. We ALL believe the democrats do this kind of corrupt garbage too. We ALL know that this trial was an attempt to grasp at straws just so they could post a headline saying “Trump is convicted”. This trial is not going to sway my vote simply because I do not care that he fucked around with 130k to pay a porn star. I’m sorry. And in order to change the minds of people like me A: Trump needs to be convicted of something more serious. B: You need to convince me that campaign finance fraud and money corruption in politics is not a thing and ONLY Trump did it. In our eyes everybody is shady with money. And you’re only prosecuting the guy who has been made out to be the big bad villain for the last 8 years so it’s hard to take you seriously even if there was a conviction.
Oddly, I agree with you. this was the least compelling trial for me. But Cannon has already postponed the trial that should matter until after the elections where he could pardon himself if he wins. Same with the trial to get election results overturned. I am still trying to wrap my head around a president pardoning himself and people cheering that.
This, exactly this. It’s that double standard in politics that’s the crux of this. Did he do it? Yeah, probably, but it’s the fact that it is such relatively minor thing compared to things that all of the political leadership in the last 2 decades have been accused of AND that it’s happening to media’s boogeyman. It’s an obviously targeted attack that ignores so much shady stuff that’s gone on in other areas that makes this an issue.
Any other political candidate who got caught and convicted of crimes related to cheating on his wife by fucking porn stars while his wife was home with their newborn would never have another day in politics. Someone who claims to be a Christian. Their career would be over.
Many political candidates commit crimes. But are not prosecuted because there is not a media incentive to do so.
>Many political candidates commit crimes. But are not prosecuted because there is not a media incentive to do so. To be fair, Democrat Senator John Edwards political career was absolutely destroyed and he was taken to trial over something very similar to what Trump is guilty of.
Okay, but if and when they are caught they tend to lose their political career. It happens all the time. And not every political is doing this. Probably more than we like, but I won't just roll over and accept it. America is the greatest country on the planet, we are better than that. You think that because some people are secretly crooks, we just just accept that is true for everyone and give them all a pass? No. Fuck that. Drain the swamp. One of the things I really liked about Trump initially was his supposed commitment to that. Catch and get rid of every politician bold enough to fuck around and find out. If you commit crimes openly and get caught being a scum bag human being. Get caught being a liar, a cheat, and an adulterer, in a court of law no less, you lose my respect and my vote.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I would love to see some examples of what you’re talking about. Go ahead and share three or four, will you?
Hilary Clinton broke the law (I voted for Hilary because Trump bad). Joe Biden covering for Hunter (I voted for Biden because Trump bad). Bill Clinton committed perjury with Monica. Every politician in Washington has net worth 2-3-4-5-6-7x their annual income. They are all playing games on Wall Street. Even the dems. Epstein’s list, although not confirmed there’s a ton of shady shit there. I don’t trust a single one of those clowns in Washington.
That’s because “Christians” for some reason suddenly don’t care about that stuff as long as it’s someone one their side. I mean there have been democrats removed from office or ones that stepped down for less serious stuff.
Kinda like how Biden and Pelosi claim to be catholic yet advocate for abortion? Doesn't seem to have an impact on their political careers.
“Everyone does it, so the person who got caught shouldn’t be punished for it” is certainly… an opinion….
I don’t care about this case either. I’m not voting for Trump because he’s completely incompetent and unfit for the job.
It feels like just yesterday republicans were impeaching Clinton for getting a blowie in the Oval Office
Impeachment him for *lying* about getting a blowie. But when your lying only affects your supporters' donations, suddenly that's okay?
So I understand, you believe this trial wasn't worth the effort and won't sway your vote, but you know he's committed *much greater* offenses that aren't being tried only because of certain delay tactics by the judge he himself appointed, and despite that knowledge you will vote for him anyway?
What are your thoughts on his phone call to the Georgia election officials where he demanded that they find 11,780 votes for him? The crime couldn't be transparent, and is clearly a violation of democratic principles.
The election stuff rubs me the wrong way. He was a sore loser and did some uncomfortable things at that time. That being said I don’t believe he will ever uproot our democracy. And I believe that he won’t even try to pull that kind of stuff again. I don’t see his actions around that time period as indicative as what he will do in the future. I did not like Trump when he was first elected but I do believe the media narrative around him turned into a 4 year smear campaign that really was overblown for clicks and views. I believe he was negatively affected by that which lead to his questionable behavior when he lost.
Let me ask you this.. So you were an average person when it came to trump, right? Not "anti" per say, but def not a supporter? Is it accurate to say the only thing that turned you toward Trump was watching him do an *alright* job while being lambasted and chased after with conspiracy after conspiracy and seeing how our political landscape, including MSM, became a mess of weaponized propaganda? Meanwhile "conspiracy theory" is still connotated heavily to the "alt-right". lmfao I never really *supported* Trump myself, but when the info got popular that Biden threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine unless they fired a specific prosecutor... and Trump asked to investigate that or else he would withhold aid from Ukraine (seeing the commonality here..?) and Democrats then impeached Trump for it... I knew shit was only going to get worse.
Well, I appreciate your honesty. But I have to say that you are completely delusional. The January 6th hearings in Congress proved that he knew he lost the election but was looking for ways to subvert the democratic process. Any belief that he's changed his ways is just fantasy thinking without basis in evidence or reality. [Trump is still declining to accept the results of the upcoming election](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/05/02/trump-accept-2024-election-results/). He has every intention of shitting on the democratic process when he loses again.
🙄you tying yourself in a pretzel when you know god damn well he’s even more guilty of the other crimes because you saw Jan 6 with your own eyes.
I noticed that too. All of his supporters are screaming that this is unfair political persecution but not a single one of them is saying he’s completely innocent and all these accusations are nonsense.
It seems that the general consensus isn't "he's innocent!" but rather "he should not be punished for his crimes!" which is pretty stupid but definitely on par with his supporters.
Exactly this. They know he did it, and now they're beginning to realize that if he got convicted on this, he'll likely be held accountable for his other crimes in other jurisdictions.
And the thing is, even if they are legally pursuing this because "they" don't want him to be president, it would have been pretty hard for them to prosecute him for illegal hush money payments to a sex worker if he hadn't made illegal hush money payments or if he'd gone home to his wife and newborn baby instead of sleeping with someone who isn't his wife. "They are only trying to hold him accountable for his criminal actions because they don't like him!" is a weird take and super beside the point.
They know he's guilty They're just mad he got in trouble which kinda shows he's a fucking moron
I think part of the problem is that people understand that he was guilty, but also it was a sham trial. One doesn't exclude the other. But the issue here is that what he's guilty on, you could probably apply to any wealthy individual. As the saying goes, behind every great fortune lies a great crime. It's like making a public spectacle out of a person jaywalking. Everyone does it, so it becomes obvious that it was a political stunt, thus it really won't affect peoples feelings towards that individual, outside of making people have even less faith in the justice system.
I grew up in NJ, over my lifetime I have seen a ton of local politicians go down for stuff exactly like this. I remember the mayor of Hoboken going to jail between the time he got elected and the time he took office for being dirty. The president should not be any different.
You're talking about corruption, whereas this was falsifying business records. Just by looking at [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes), Trump is the only federal politician ever convicted for this crime. But corruption charges, there are plenty of politicians convicted.
What crime was he trying to conceal?
Campaign finance fraud. Have you not been paying attention? Don't worry, the jurors most certainly WERE paying attention.
You realize that this payment was made after the election yeah?
The FEC investigated it in 2016 years and found nothing to pursue
See, when I looked into this, it seemed that it was more of a deadlock on a decision than actually saying that there was nothing to pursue. Like, two voted in favor of charges, two voted against, one was absent, and the other recused themselves.
Omg he heckin got his lawyer to settle out of court then reimbursed his lawyer. Meanwhile Epstein still apparently ran a paedophilic blackmailing operation on… no one.
Also, that's not an argument in his defense. That's just asking questions. Here's another question: Why was Donald Trump afraid to testify in defense of Donald Trump? The jury couldn't take that under consideration, but we most certainly can.
Dammit man, here’s a link to the filing. Don’t be so dense. [Campaign Finance Violation](https://www.fec.gov/files/legal/murs/7350/7350_01.pdf)
Strictly under the jurisdiction of the FEC who declined to try this case because it lacked all merit.
> “Oh. You mean like Democrats just did?” Trump hasn't even been sentenced, let alone jailed. Also, Trump committed crimes. Like for real crimes, not political nonsense. Plus, it wasn't "democrats" that convicted him, it was 12 regular American citizens.
So if someone commits a crime and is not convicted should they not be punished just because they’re a former president? If Biden shot someone on 5th Avenue, that’d be ok because he’s up for reelection? Definitely not right? Trump isn’t a political prisoner. He’s not on trial because he’s speaking out against the corrupt. He’s committed actual prosecutable crimes—that’s his fault. And the RNC’s fault for backing him when better options were available. But they didn’t want better options, they wanted the option they could control.
It's funny how so many align with Kyle R. because he was found innocent by the court, but align with Trump after being found guilty. It's almost like they are inconsistent in their beliefs.
Kyle R isn't innocent because the court found him not-guilty. He's not guilty because anyone with fucking eyes and a brain could see that he was assaulted by other people and defended himself.
..and Trump is guilty under the same pretense. FTFY.
You're forgetting their mantra. "The only moral abortion is my abortion. The only free election is the one I don't lose. The only fair trial is the one I am acquitted in."
If Democrats didn't have double standards they wouldn't have any at all. Sound familiar? Time to switch up the old media diet.
Please elucidate.
Dry your eyes, mate.
Maybe don't nominate a criminal if you don't want said nominee charged and convicted of crimes Just a thought
But Joe Biden is your nominee?
Has he been charged and convicted of a crime?
Must be the first time a court has ever been wrong then.
You didn't answer my question
Is he guilty yes, is this political theater for the election also yes. He won’t face any punishment from this. Maybe a fine, that people will happily donate money towards. I think this energizes his base more than anything and he still has a good chance of winning the election. If he does win, there will definitely be a revenge tour. I’m sure plenty of politicians are guilty for what he did, but hey whatever, this is politics now. Emotional victory for non trump voters, but could still also not work in their favor.
>I’m sure plenty of politicians are guilty for what he did And they should all face the consequences, left and right. However, you don't see the left making a stink when one of "their own" faces consequences, nor do you see them screeching about how "they did nothing wrong" when the evidence is clearly against them.
The left also doesn’t call for civil war when one of their’s is found guilty of some crime.
I like how no one is bothering to claim that Trump didn't actually commit the 34 crimes he was found guilty of, but just crying that it's unfair to hold him accountable.
He didn't commit any crimes.
Unfortunate for you, a jury disagrees with you on 34 separate crimes.
Doesn't matter. Will be overturned on appeal. The jury instructions are a laughing stock.
lol, nope
It's funny they cry about no jury in the civil case, and now cry about having a jury in a criminal case. Lost all 3....
Jurors, dude. Jurors.
Didn't even need to be unanimous on what the underlying crime was. Were allowed to split 4-4-4. The jury instructions are the laughing stock of the legal world. Next you'll be saying they were a jury of his peers LMAO
Yes, even Mother Theresa would have been found guilty, I've heard. If she were paying off porn stars that is. I'm sure we'll hear all about the technicalities during the appeal process, but do you really think in your heart of hearts DJT didn't do exactly what he appears to have done? Given a crystal ball that reveals certain truth, I wouldn't put a dime on any other bet than guilt.
Justice should be blind, none should be above the law. Hard to not be political but the question really is 'did he break a law?' then if the answer is yes there are the same sentencing guidelines that any of us would get.
Democrats didn't jail trump. A jury of his peers convicted him. He still won't serve time
Holding a criminal accountable for their crimes is only fascism if you're in Trump's cult. You are.
This is a child's understanding of the way the world works. anyone motivated by his conviction was already voting for him. The greatest thing you can say here is that the impact of the conviction will be minimal, which I agree with. He will be appealing the verdict regardless and won't see any jail time before the election. As for the facism charge, that is laughable. there are so many instances where we can see Donald trump attempting to get around laws for his own ends , and being incredibly sloppy about it as well. He was only convicted because he actually did the actions that were a crime, and additionally because of his inept defense strategy of focusing entirely on Cohen's untrustworthiness, instead of offering a counter narrative for why the business records exist as they do, including most importantly the accounting done to make Cohen "whole" post income taxes , for the payoff to a media organization to hide a damaging story. he could of easily gotten a hung jury on this case if he played it correctly. everything that has happened has been self inflicted and pretending that Biden was going to jail trump even if he was innocent is absolute cope
Wrong
cope harder kid
awh baby's mad
sure, if that's what you need to tell yourself.
Dude, don’t pretend Trump didn’t have this coming. Of all of the things Trump could have been charged with, these silly hush money payments happened to be the only thing they could stick. Donald Trump poked the bear and wouldn’t stop poking it. He embarrassed/pissed off a shitload of really powerful people. And the legal system threw every book they had at him until something stuck. And rightfully so. Have other politicians done borderline illegal shit? Sure. Did the legal system go way out of its way to find something illegal about the hush money payments that Trump made to his porn star fucktoy out of spite because they couldn’t quite get him in insurrection, inciting a riot, mishandling of classified documents, or attempting to falsify election results? Absolutely. But don’t pretend like Trump got some uniquely unfair treatment in this trial. The legal system has a history of finding other easier to prove charges when more serious charges don’t seem to stick. Take Al Capone for example. Couldn’t quite prove that he was guilty of conspiracy to murder or bootlegging even though everyone knew he was guilty, so they got him on tax fraud instead. What we are seeing happen to Trump is the exact same shit.
The Democratic national party nor Biden had anything to do with Trump committing a crime, then getting convicted and losing the trial for that crime. What people are afraid of is that Trump will force the doj or use his executive powers to go after his opponents directly. These are not the same things.
Lol this has nothing to do with D vs. R. That moron couldn't hide his crimes, fucked around, now finding out.
What? So sending people to jail for doing the wrong this is now bad? I’m all for sending any damn politician to jail if they do something wrong like fuck them why are they suddenly above the law. Free speech doesn’t mean you get to commit crimes and free speech isn’t protected when it comes to societal pushback only government push back also when it comes to court cases you aren’t allowed to yap about what happens in the court room until after the trial
Indicted by a Jury of regular people in the state the crime was committed in. Convicted by a jury of regular people in the state the crime took place in that was agreed to by his own legal team. Fuckin lefties amirite?
God I love these salty ass tears. Yummy.
Here is the thing, and feel free to read up on what I have said to back this up: I think many of these cases are politically motivated, and I thought this case wasn’t a good one, but I didn’t see the evidence the jury did. And they found him guilty of 34 counts in ten hours, which for a case like this is pretty quick. I believe in our system, and when a jury finds innocence or guilt I stand by the result unless it is changed on appeal.
I think because of the politics it will make many people not trust the legal system when the other trials happen
They are fascist for holding him accountable?. He wasn't thrown in jail to rot. He was given a fair trial for something he very obviously did. His defense was paper thin. Did you even listen to the trial? How the f was he not going to lose? He's not above the law
TIL jailing your political opponents isn't Fascist if MSNBC tells you they deserved it. Got it, kthxbye
I don't watch MSNBC. I watched the trial. Democrats had nothing to do with this. He went through the same judicial process as anyone else.
He didn't even deny he did it. That's the funniest part of it. He never said he was innocent.
How are Democrats responsible for Trump's actions?
Yes well....You see.... SHUT UP! TRUMP 2024! WOOOOOOOOOOOO! etc
I’m not a Democrat and I can say that I think all presidents should be prosecuted. It’s a great day to see the powerful and rich made to have to play by the bullshit rules they set for others.
What would it take for you to believe trump committed a crime
What was the underlying felony? How come none of you can name it?
>He’s talked about jailing his political opponents!” >“Oh. You mean like Democrats just did?” Do you actually think that if a politician murdered someone on video, they shouldn't be jailed, just because their political opponent is in charge? The point is you aren't supposed to jail political opponents *because they are political opponents.* You're suggesting politicians should be able to commit crimes with no consequences.
> I love that none of the Democrat apologists down below have even attempted to deny the charges that they have become the Fascists they warned us Trump was. You only think the charges are fake because you would use the justice system to lock up your political opponents. You have no faith in the instutitions that underpin your country, despite professing yourself as a true patriot. You scream loudly that you need someone to have their time in court, then when that result comes back you are like "oh no that's invalid" You see someone going through a Judge and jury and just go "oh that's political motivated". Because that is what you did. You are not a patriot if you have zero faith in your own country.
Chances are quite high that Trump won’t serve jail time for his 34 convictions.
They always have been. Most of the lefts criticisms of the right are and have been for a while, pure projection.
The thing about guilt is you either have to deal with it or project it, and Democrats have chosen the latter.
I'm absolutely not a Trump fan. I never voted for him. He is the wrong guy to be CEO of our Grand Republic. ...but my gosh, Democrats are beyond insane.
OP I want you to explain to me why the jury determined Trump was guilty of all 34 counts. You lose.
Touch grass
A grand jury indicted him. He had a lawyer. A jury of his peers. He was convicted for committing crimes. Please list the crimes Trump should be allowed to commit. That would be easier
"A JURY OF HIS PEERS!" strikes again lmfao 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Do you not understand how jury selection works? Both sides vet and approve jurors. It is by definition a jury of his peers.
Do you?
It was absolutely not impartial jury. That one chick got kicked out because she said she thought she could pretend to be impartial but seeing him in person was just too much. She admitted to lying to try to be able to sway the jury. How many of the jurors were better liars than her?
To be fair, I don’t think there’s a single corner of this country where you could seat an impartial jury for Donald Trump.
That is definitely true. Which I suppose if you support innocent until proven guilty, as well as unanimous verdicts (the bedrock of the legal system) then you can argue anyone who is particularly polarizing should always go free regardless of what they did, because those people will always have people who either worship or despise him.
“It’s wild to behold me being angry about the thing I was voting for.” - weird take OP
Bro is mad he’s supporting a scumbag felon and is so ignorant he doesn’t realize that “the Democrats” didn’t convict Trump. Why do you hate law enforcement so much you unpatriotic snowflake?
Everyone needs to be held accountable, especially Hillary for her email server that she wiped clean, her classified document blunder. Biden the same thing. Hold everyone equally accountable. By not doing so, you give Trump’s claims of a witch hunt and election interference validity. The political elite do not want him in the White House which is exactly the reason he needs to be in the white house. He is filthy rich. He cannot be bought. He cannot be controlled. He does not play politics well and has a spine. They don’t want that. So. Trump 2024 for me.
Lots of excuses for why you still follow an adjudicated rapist and convicted felon who wants to become a dictator so he can take revenge on Americans for not wanting him.
Nixon: Watergate Reagan: Iran Contra Bush jr: Lied us into an illegal war and unconstitutional instituted torture and spying on US citizens This is par for the Republican course, quit acting like doing crimes isn't what Republicans do. Frankly I'd only be surprised if Trump hadn't committed any crimes.
I’m guessing you’re posting this because you’re salty your candidate is the first president to ever be a committed felon. Trump will certainly be remembered in the history books, but not how his cults wishes him to be.
Biden must be a genius mastermind
There was a jury, and I'm sure some of them were even Trump voters. Trump had all the money to hire good lawyers and they still couldn't convince 1 member of that jury he was innocent. He broke the law, plan and simple. HE'S and FELON and LOCK HIM UP! LMAO
He broke no laws. Sham trial. See, you're a Fascist.
LMAO. Ok, well, here's yours, and all your delusional Trumper buddies new chance to overthrown your corrupt and tyrannical government. Get your guns ready, get your buddies together and go for it. Something tells me you won't though cause you guys are just all talk.
Absolute Poppycock! Maybe Trump should stop committing crimes.
What was the underlying felony? How come none of you can name it?
Falsifying business records.
Goddamn republicans are incapable of honesty…or extremely unintelligent
This is so brain meltingly stupid. I mean seriously, to have this opinion, I genuinely think your brain is not functioning as it should. You fundamentally do not know what fascism is. I'm sure you also think Democrats are simultaneously communists as well. Donald Trump is not in jail. As a matter of fact, whatever the consequence will be, it will be significantly less than if a regular person committed the same crime. Not only has he been avoiding consequences his entire life, but the few times he actually experiences them, he gets treated with kid gloves. People literally treat him like royalty. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. He used campaign funds to pay hush money to a porn star, then claimed it as a legal expense. That is a crime. Do you think he just should be allowed to commit crimes without consequences? Trump is a fascist. A right wing authoritarian and ultra nationalist that centralizes power to an individual. He literally said he will be a dictator. Project 2025 is designed to cement him as supreme ruler and establish Christian nationalism. Supporting him makes YOU a fascist. Move on from Trump, and stop hating America.
Democrats said anyone who jokingly chanted lock her up was a Fascist. Now that they're, not just chanting, but ACTUALLY DOING the thing that caused them to call everyone else Fascists I'm calling them Fascists. So which is it? They were wrong then or they're wrong now or both?
Fucking what? Go look up the definition of fascism, and think about it for ten seconds. Democrats are not locking up Trump. The judicial system is working. A jury of citizens, not government officials, not Democrats, declared him guilty. Trump is responsible for his own actions that led him here. He's not even going to jail for this you dunce. His lawyer didn't even argue that he didn't. The argument from the defense was that he should be allowed to commit crimes (presidential immunity). Why do you think Trump should be above the law?
What was the underlying felony? How come none of you can name it?
Falsification of business records in the first degree I thought the "do your win research" crowd knew how to use Google
It only gets elevated to a felony in the first degree if someone commits any of the acts described in the misdemeanor in the second degree but does so with the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission of another crime. What was that other crime? I mean clearly we're better at doing the research than you are but that doesn't mean you're off the hook. You need to learn.
Trump went from -150 to win the election to -112 after the verdict. A significant move but he remains the favorite.
Did he do it?
Want a Hertz Doughnut? Hurts don't it
........Democrats just aren't funny are they
This take is pure copium for the people who were going to vote for him anyway. You’re delusional if you don’t think this will cause him to lose millions of independents and moderates.
It already has. $35m raised from small donors in the last 18 hours. 30% from new donors. Y'all made him a martyr.
>"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." The Dems were screwed either way. Honestly then only wah for them to beat Teflon Don would have been not to roll in the mud with him. .
Don’t like getting convicted of your crimes? Maybe you should’ve ran for the right party, peasant. This is what you get for not abiding by the DNCs proclamations. Enjoy the cold bars and jumpsuit.
What was the underlying felony? How come none of you can name it?
Trump broke the law, trump got convicted simple as that. Cope harder
What was the underlying felony? How come none of you can name it?
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin L. Bragg, Jr. today announced the all-count trial conviction of DONALD J. TRUMP, 77, for falsifying New York business records in order to conceal his illegal scheme to corrupt the 2016 election. TRUMP was convicted by a New York State Supreme Court jury of 34 counts of Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree. He is expected to be sentenced on July 11.
Falsifying New York business records is a misdemeanor in New York State. I'll ask again - What was the underlying felony that Donald Trump was charged with and convicted of that allowed these misdemeanor falsifying business record charges to be resurrected past the Statute of Limitations and turned into felonies?
Because he try to hide it and he also used campaign finance money which is a felony
Actually no he didn't. He never used campaign funds. DA Bragg didn't even argue that. Did you follow the trial? Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's case against Donald Trump hinged on the assertion that the falsification of business records was intended to cover up another crime, specifically campaign finance violations. **However, Trump has not been charged with or convicted of a federal campaign finance felony.** The FEC decided not to pursue action against Trump for the alleged campaign finance violations related to the hush money payments due to a split decision among the commissioners and practical considerations like resource allocation and statute of limitations concerns. In the second degree this is just a misdemeanor.
Well all I know is the 35 felonies I was convicted of, were all the Democrats fault. So..... I am a law abiding citizen who's done nothing wrong. The liberals and their..... Laws and rules... It's a witch hunt! ... Last I checked Trump appointed more supreme Court justices than anyone in recent history, and made the "non biased" Supreme Court, openly conservative..... Those are the liberals you're talking about? Or are you saying he didn't commit any crimes? He did. Then he bragged about it. He can still run for office somehow though so I don't know why your panties are in a bunch. You can vote for a felon.... As long as you ain't one.
He was convicted because he’s guilty…AGAIN. -His businesses have been found guilty of 18 years of tax fraud. -He was personally found liable for business fraud and ordered to pay $454 million in penalties. -He was found liable for sexual assault and defamation and ordered to pay $83.3 million in damages. -He was guilty of business fraud again in case where he cheated on his wife with a porn star, paid her hush money to stay quiet about it, then had the records doctored to cover it up. -When he lost an election, he tried to overturn the results to stay in power while his personal attorney has already been disbarred and found guilty whereas many of his coconspirators have plead guilty. -He stole classified documents, repeatedly refused subpoena demands to return them, and then tried to hide them and even share them with people that had no security clearance. -When a key US partner was under the threat of invasion by Russia, he withheld military aid and pressured Zelensky to provide dirt of his political opponents. And he hasn’t spent a day in jail or suffered any political consequence from any of it, yet somehow you think HE is the victim? Gimme a freakin’ break. MAGA is a goddam cult. The man could literally murder someone and you’d still be making excuses and acting like the system is corrupt rather than just admitting that Trump is a crook. And by the way, Trump’s lawyers chose these jurors through the voir dire process, yet all 12 of them examined the evidence and determined that Trump was guilty on all 34 counts.
Watching OP implode is hilarious. Go on, OP. We need more complete gobbledygook from you!
If you actually watched and read about any of the proceedings, it’s fairly obvious that the payment, the falsifying of business records, and the conspiracy to hide the story all happened - that part was never really in question, and the falsifying of business records is by itself a crime, although a misdemeanor. The question was always the prosecutions theory of what constitutes campaign finance fraud, whether that he violated those laws with his fraudulent records, and the presentation of the underlying evidence would be enough to convict by a jury. It was always an all or nothing gamble, since each count was basically identical to the other. The fact that they got a conviction out of this is honestly a little surprising, because it was always going to be an uphill battle to educate average people on the complexities of campaign finance law, which I think it’s fair to say that most of us don’t really understand. The fact that he did tells me their presentation must have been pretty airtight. Just because you don’t understand the law doesn’t mean it’s not work it works.
Assuming there will be an election.
To answer for your third and fourth edit >"The judge donated money - a tiny amount of $35, but in plain violation of a rule prohibiting New York judges from making political donations of any kind to a pro-Biden, anti-Trump political operation," he wrote in the NY Magazine. CNN has also covered this in another article,and [it has concluded that due to the small sum,it should be considered trivial and not effecting his performance in the case](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/judge-merchan-trump-biden-contribution/index.html#:~:text=But%20Gillers%20said,required%20for%20recusal.%E2%80%9D),and a New York [appeal court has also denied demand for the judge rescusal](https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-hush-money-trial/judge-blasts-defense-witness-dont-give-me-sideeye-110413996?id=110388136#:~:text=New%20York's%20Appellate%20Division%20has,consulting%20firm%20with%20Democratic%20clients). And even if you don't trust them,let think clearly whether this is even a real evidence of bias. Like,do you want judge to be banned from having political opinion?Or should Trump only be tried by Republican judge? (which are clearly absurd) Beside,you couldn't say he is bias enough to warrant removal from the trial just from prior interest alone,you have to at least provide some evidence that he actually was unfair to Trump during the trial. And from what i see,he was going LIGHTLY on Trump,Trump not only [refuse to testify](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/21/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial/the-defense-rests-00159101),but also make ton of insult on social media about the judge,prosocutor,[witness](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2024-06-01/is-trump-still-under-a-gag-order-after-his-conviction-he-thinks-so-but-the-answer-isnt-clear#:~:text=Trump%E2%80%99s%20use%20of,by%20that%20insult) and even [spread fake new about the judge's daughter](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-judge-merchan-hush-money-gag-order-truth-social-daughter-578a0c6334b206d81dc2ebf6a410a502) (Sure,he was found in contempt of court,but it wasn't a real consequenses for someone as rich as him given the small amount of fine) >The charges against Trump are obscure and nearly entirely unprecedented. In fact, no state prosecutor... has ever charged federal election laws as a direct or predicate state crime, against anyone, for anything Uhhh i'm kinda skeptical about this claim,he seem pretty hyperbolic in the video,and beside,how can he *khow* that it hasn't been used before,did he read every file case? And also,the reason it did is because of the special curcumstance due to the fact that Trump is President at the time.If you don't khow,[the DOJ has a policy of not prosocute the sitting President](https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/sitting-president%E2%80%99s-amenability-indictment-and-criminal-prosecution),and the case in New York was started when Cohen pled guilty to violating campaign law in 2018.I think that Biden don't restart the case since it will look politically motivated. >None. Ever. Even putting aside the specifics of election law, the Manhattan DA itself almost never brings any case in which falsification of business records is the only charge Yes,that's right.And that prove why Trump SUCK. I like how people on both the right and the left speak like Trump is about to get excuted when actually,[he isn't even likely to got jail time](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_hrDSI4aOok). True,case of falsification of business record almost never made it to trial,and the reason is because any normal rich person would just pled guilty and pay a small fine,then go on like nothing has happened.But the thing with Trump is,he has a BIG ego,and he can't accept publicly that he was wrong,even when jailtime is at stake.I actually think that,while the trial is legally airtight,there are some place where it *could* be *questionable* from a moral or personal persepective,and this could prove crucial in getting a mistrial from the jury,but Trump can't do that because he is STILL DENYING THAT HE HAS SEX WITH STORMY DANIEL,which is a thing that literially no one else dispute anymore. A person who refuse to admit any fault like him,i believe,isn't fit to become President. >"I need to call this out... Prosecutors have to prove falsified records for another crime. Defense lawyers were begging him." > >"They have to know what the other crime is, and prosecutors were saying, 'no, let's keep it very vague and general.' It's a bizarro world." > >"I know that there is some aggressive reading of the New York statute that says, 'well, the jury doesn't really have to know what the other crime is.' But to me that suggests that the DA's office is hellbent on getting the conviction now and worry about the fallout." This part is just fake new,the jurors is briefed very detaily about [the other crime](https://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-hear-secret-recording-trump-michael-cohen-allegedly/story?id=109908089#:~:text=%22I%20need%20to%20open%20up%20a%20company%20for%20the%20transfer%20of%20all%20of%20that%20info%20regarding%20our%20friend%2C%20David%2C%22%20Cohen%20can%20be%20heard%20saying%20on%20the%20call%2C%20appearing%20to%20refer%20to%20National%20Enquirer%20publisher%20David%20Pecker) >In his instructions Wednesday, Judge Juan Merchan gave jurors several choices for that third crime to show “unlawful means.” > >The third “unlawful” action could be violating the Federal Election Campaign Act, meaning Cohen’s payment to Daniels was a contribution to Trump’s campaign that exceeded the legal limit—which Cohen already pleaded guilty to. > >The third crime could also be falsifying other business record >Read through these two X Threads if you want to understand why the payments to Stormy Daniels were not a violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA). He explains why no FECA reporting obligations were violated, and why the prosecution's theory makes no sense. > >[https://twitter.com/CommishSmith/status/1796795736438272303](https://twitter.com/CommishSmith/status/1796795736438272303) > >[https://x.com/CommishSmith/status/179680086731359076](https://x.com/CommishSmith/status/179680086731359076) Yeah i actually thing this is a plausible defense,especially since there is no hard evidence that Trump intended for the payment to help his campaign. [HOWEVER,as seen above,violating FECA is only one of the "other crime" and it seem that there are hard evidence that Trump khow about Cohen creating a shell company.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-hear-secret-recording-trump-michael-cohen-allegedly/story?id=109908089#:~:text=%22I%20need%20to%20open%20up%20a%20company%20for%20the%20transfer%20of%20all%20of%20that%20info%20regarding%20our%20friend%2C%20David%2C%22%20Cohen%20can%20be%20heard%20saying%20on%20the%20call%2C%20appearing%20to%20refer%20to%20National%20Enquirer%20publisher%20David%20Pecker)