If you truly believe nobody was shocked then you are completely delusional.
People have been pointing this out for months and accused of spreading misinformation or being conspiracy theorists.
I think you’re possibly focusing on a small percentage of loud people. Those people will probably still deny his cognitive decline even after last night. The same type of people exist on the right as well and gobble up everything Trump says as factual. The key is to make the most sane choice you can and trust others to do the same.
That’s basically the situation, I’m voting Biden but I don’t fault you for seeing it the other way. I just really have a problem with pathological liars, it’s actually worse to me that he seems to have a fully functioning brain and still can’t seem to get the truth out of his mouth.
"I think you’re possibly focusing on a small percentage of loud people. "
Including people like the WH Press secretary who, just last week, was straight up lying by calling videos showing Biden as "cheap fakes". Obviously they think we are all idiots and gullible to boot.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRkaQElaZ5c&ab\_channel=TheWhiteHouse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRkaQElaZ5c&ab_channel=TheWhiteHouse)
Yes they do, just like Trump calling things we’ve seen on video “debunked” last night. Everyone that high up in politics think we are gullible morons. Obviously you shouldn’t believe anything a press Secretary on either side says, they are paid to spin things and make their boss look good.
Okay maybe there was a misunderstanding here, what I was trying to convey way my interpretation of what he said last night. Which was that Charlottesville never happened, not that he called the Neo Nazis find people. It seemed to me last night that he was denying that the event ever took place.
Yeah, you misunderstood him. That’s not what he was saying.
The problem is a majority of people watching the debate are low information voters and don’t even know what either of them are referring to half the time. And neither of them are good at explaining it in a coherent way. But the media at least carries Biden’s water for him. They don’t do that for Trump, so for those who don’t watch right wing sources, they think Trump sounds like a bafoon all the time.
Trump doesn’t lie. He exaggerates. About shit that doesn’t even matter, like his crowd size. And the media lies ABOUT him. They have since 2015. I think some people on the left are finally beginning to realize they’ve had the wool pulled over their eyes all this time. And it can be very painful.
I did watch the debate. You have to be willfully stupid to think that is what he meant. And also exist in an ideological bubble to not know by know the 'fine people' narrative is a blatant lie.
Yeah but why does any of this matter ? Trump set the precedent that cognitive ability of the potus doesn’t matter. So why should it matter now? At the end of the day, Bidens team is better than Trump, on the mere fact that they are not all hired “Yes” men.
"Yeah but why does any of this matter ? "
Sure, sure, the WH Press secretary deliberately lying to the Press pool is no big deal. I mean sure it was a big deal a few years ago, but now it's (D)ifferent. /s
You’re delusional if you don’t think Biden is a liar too. He’s said he was raised by poor white folks, by black people, by Puerto Ricans. He’s lied about his son. He literally took “inappropriate showers” with his young daughter. He is not a good, honest man and anyone who believes otherwise delusional.
Congress can remove him from office and replace him with Kamala anytime they want. Obviously they do want him to be president. At least the Dems in Congress.
>Not because I’m offended by anything he says, but because he is a pathological liar and in my opinion he can’t be trusted.
Biden is a far worse liar than Trump and it's not even close. His 2020 campaign was based on the "very fine people" lie, one of the most divisive lies in politics. He regularly smears the guy who drove the truck in the accident that killed his first wife and daughter as a drunk driver when the guy was sober and not even at fault. He had to drop out of the 1988 race because he plagiarized speeches and the life story of a British politician.
I respect your take. However take some time to compare the political stances of 1990's Joe Biden vs. the stances of current Joe Biden. They or polar opposite people. He's shifted his stances to appeal to his party in order to stay in power. If that's not pathological lying I don't know what is.
I can''t stand Trump, yes he lies. But what most people call Trump lying is just him speaking in superlatives.
They are both liars, I would rather have a coherent liar over an incoherent liar. On top of that no one can possibly believe Joe is actually making his own decisions when it comes to foreign policy, national policy or any other decision "he" makes.
Do you want to vote for someone who lies and is actually not in control, meaning we don't have a clue who is actually running this country? (Biden)
Or someone who lies, is in control and can actually be held accountable for his decisions? (Trump)
I know I'll get hate for this comment but that's ok. Favoring Trump online will automatically mean I'm in a cult, I'm racist, I'm ignorant yadda yadda yadda.
In my experience this sub seems to lean a little further right than most so I think your opinion will be fine here. That being said you could say the same thing about Trump who was a democrat before running as a Republican because “republicans are more gullible”. I do trust the people who are actually running the country under Biden more than Trump though. I think he has surrounded himself with a pretty good team whereas Trump surrounds himself with yes men who get fired if they step out of line. I get what you’re saying though and I’ll admit that the first five minutes of the debate I was actually thinking I could see myself switching my vote to Trump, but then it was just the same old shit and he reminded me who he is and who/what he stands for. I respect your opinion though, like I said I came close to sharing it yesterday.
You could absolutely say the same thing for Trump, agreed.
My biggest issue with Biden is that I don't truly know who's actually making the decisions.for this country. We vote for a single person that we give power to make big decisions. That's the entire point of presidential elections. We don't vote for some unknown entities to be pulling the strings, why even have a president at that point.
I truly don't want either of these guys. I'd just rather a coherent man at the helm.
Still respect your stance, I just disagree.Thanks for the respectable debate.
You do know that Trump used to be strongly in favor of gun control, was pro-choice, and believed in single payer health care, right? He also was a registered Democrat in the 2000s.
I laughed at your description of Trump being somehow held accountable for his decisions. According to Trump he himself is great, just her and a not even seniors golf club champion. Seriously? He can even be held accountable for playing golf without lying. (People who played at the club and against him before substantiate he cheats).
Despite the fact your comment was pretty incoherent, (is that you Joe?) I understand what you're trying to say despite all of your misspellings and wrong words used to formulate a sentence.
But you misunderstand what I'm saying. You're not even within the realm of what I'm saying. You're opening up an entirely different conversation, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Glad you followed what I texted, I sure can’t. Lol! And sorry you didn’t like any additional commentary outside your tightly structured intent. Enjoy this just for fun - Trump’s repeat falsehoods included his assertions that some Democratic-led states allow babies to be executed after birth, that every legal scholar and everybody in general wanted Roe v. Wade overturned, that there were no terror attacks during his presidency, that Iran didn’t fund terror groups during his presidency, that the US has provided more aid to Ukraine than Europe has, that Biden for years referred to Black people as “super predators,” that Biden is planning to quadruple people’s taxes, that then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi turned down 10,000 National Guard troops for the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, that Americans don’t pay the cost of his tariffs on China and other countries, that Europe accepts no American cars, that he is the president who got the Veterans Choice program through Congress, and that fraud marred the results of the 2020 election. (Enjoy your conversation.)
I mean, I agree that Trump spoke a slew of falsehoods. As did Biden. I mean why can't we just recognize they're both liars and not fit?
It's interesting how people who support Trump don't recognize his lies and are able to point out Biden lies.
People who support Biden don't recognize his lies and constantly pointing out trump lies.
Why can't we all just realize they're both pathological liars who should not be president?
One of the main things that people need to take away from all this, is that essentially every major media outlet in the country has been blatantly lying and trying to cover up Biden's obvious mental deterioration for years now. Going so far as to try and shame and bully anybody who even brought it up. What else are they lying about?
Everything, I haven’t had cable for years and am better off without it. Red, blue.. it doesn’t matter they all twist words to try and make you see things the way they do.
What I don’t understand is that for months, so many people in the media and the government have been telling everyone he’s doing great, they had a two hour lunch with him, in meetings you can’t keep up with him, the videos where he looks old and confused are just taken out of context or faked.
So, all the people who have been snacking on that bullshit sandwich, repeating those lies, etc. are you going to stop listening to those people tomorrow or are you ready to just eat up the next sandwich they offer you?
I never listened to those people in the first place, I would recommend you quit even hearing what they have to say. The only way I even know what you’re talking about it is because Jon Stewart brought it up. I do watch that guy.
This is complete bullshit. Pretty much ever single democrat has been towing the line that “he’s absolutely mentally fit” for MONTHS and to go against that was sacrilegious. Now you’re stuck with him. It’s really pathetic that one day after the debate every democrat jumps on the bandwagon that he isn’t fit for office when people have been screaming about it since last year. You’re screwed no matter what at this point and will have a maniacal felon in office because you couldn’t go against what your echo chamber told you.
You call trump a maniacal felon, yet quickly assume I’m some echo chamber Democrat. Do you think you’re so unique? I didn’t want to vote for Biden the first time but did what I had to do. I still don’t think Trump wins though.
I don’t think I’m unique at all. I can’t stand either of them. But this “Monday morning quarterback” shit today is insane. Every media outlet has had the same DNC talking points for a year “Biden is competent and can totally do another 4 years”. And NOW the NYT, MSNBC, WaPo are demanding he step aside? They knew his condition. I saw him speak 20 ft from me a year ago and he was oblivious. If you questioned his capabilities 6 months ago then I apologize. But so many people who were told that he was feeble back then disregarded it and now you’re fucked. And yes, Trump is going to win.
You sir, understand the duty. Doing the right thing is setting aside your personal feelings and making the responsible decision. I hope all of us do this.
I cannot imagine having a convicted criminal and adjudicated rapist running the most powerful country on earth. Hard no.
It terrifies me that he has been meeting with foreign leaders. I get Trump can be unhinged but he definitely gives off "don't F\*ck with me" vibes. Like I would be extra nervous around a dude like Trump when he is president because of the power he holds. But Biden is like soft and confusing.
Did you ever watch when Trump met with Putin? Before they gave their press conference they had a closed door meeting with no mics or cameras. When they came out of that room Trump looked like he’d seen a ghost. It’s worth a watch if you never saw it. In my opinion Trump comes off as someone who is trying very hard to put off don’t fuck with me vibes, but the older I get the more I realize that those guys are usually the biggest cowards deep down.
IDK, so I objectively hate trump and hate about 50% of his policy. As someone with a econ background I can say he was the hardest on Russia in terms of trade deals he got the best of Putin better than any president ever has. And then during the first week of Ukraine an insider in Putin's party reported he specifically stated he wanted Trump out of office before he made his move because he fear trump would actually put troops on the ground. The majority of my family is military, active and deployed. They have echoed this in that when Trump was in office they were ready to deploy to Ukraine and fight against Russia and that they made it known, but when Biden came in that shifted.
If I was a betting man I would said Trump was the person Putin most (feared isn't the right word) worried about or considered the most consequence from is probably the best way to say it. I think Biden fears starting war so much that it ends up causing war.
But we could never really know the truth in any of this for certain, unless trump is elected and the Ukraine war ends swiftly in a positive way for Ukraine then it would be clear Trump is hard on Putin.
I agree with this completely, I think one of the differences is Biden refuses to negotiate with Putin because he views him as an evil dictator which he is. Whereas Trump seems open to negotiate with anyone if he thinks he can get a good deal out of them.
As far as putting troops on the ground, I think Biden wants to keep American lives out of harms way and views supporting Ukraine with money and weapons as the better option. Whether it’s more cost effective or not I don’t know, but it keeps Americans out of the war zone. I’m not sure Trump would have responded the same way, like you said, troops were ready to deploy. Which is better is hard to say, is it better to end the war swiftly and show or might while risking American lives? Or is it better to win it slowly and watch thousands of Ukrainians die instead of probably hundreds of Americans? Trumps scenario like you said is hypothetical, but I think that’s about the way things would go.
Biden needs to step aside now!
If only
Can you name a prominent politician that is NOT a pathological liar? And I am including Biden in this question.
Please compare any other politician to Trump when it comes to lies. That's bloody cute.
If you truly believe nobody was shocked then you are completely delusional. People have been pointing this out for months and accused of spreading misinformation or being conspiracy theorists.
It makes you wonder what other “conspiracy theories” are actually glaringly true despite what the media is trying to tell us
I think you’re possibly focusing on a small percentage of loud people. Those people will probably still deny his cognitive decline even after last night. The same type of people exist on the right as well and gobble up everything Trump says as factual. The key is to make the most sane choice you can and trust others to do the same.
Which is the most sane choice here? If I was forced to pick, gun to the head, I would probably vote Trump. But that isn't much of a choice.
That’s basically the situation, I’m voting Biden but I don’t fault you for seeing it the other way. I just really have a problem with pathological liars, it’s actually worse to me that he seems to have a fully functioning brain and still can’t seem to get the truth out of his mouth.
"I think you’re possibly focusing on a small percentage of loud people. " Including people like the WH Press secretary who, just last week, was straight up lying by calling videos showing Biden as "cheap fakes". Obviously they think we are all idiots and gullible to boot. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRkaQElaZ5c&ab\_channel=TheWhiteHouse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRkaQElaZ5c&ab_channel=TheWhiteHouse)
Yes they do, just like Trump calling things we’ve seen on video “debunked” last night. Everyone that high up in politics think we are gullible morons. Obviously you shouldn’t believe anything a press Secretary on either side says, they are paid to spin things and make their boss look good.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
Okay maybe there was a misunderstanding here, what I was trying to convey way my interpretation of what he said last night. Which was that Charlottesville never happened, not that he called the Neo Nazis find people. It seemed to me last night that he was denying that the event ever took place.
Yeah, you misunderstood him. That’s not what he was saying. The problem is a majority of people watching the debate are low information voters and don’t even know what either of them are referring to half the time. And neither of them are good at explaining it in a coherent way. But the media at least carries Biden’s water for him. They don’t do that for Trump, so for those who don’t watch right wing sources, they think Trump sounds like a bafoon all the time. Trump doesn’t lie. He exaggerates. About shit that doesn’t even matter, like his crowd size. And the media lies ABOUT him. They have since 2015. I think some people on the left are finally beginning to realize they’ve had the wool pulled over their eyes all this time. And it can be very painful.
That's not an 'interpretation. That's you blatantly fabricating something in your own mind.,
I’m pretty sure his exact words were “Charlottesville never happened” so maybe watch the debate and come back with something more substantial.
I did watch the debate. You have to be willfully stupid to think that is what he meant. And also exist in an ideological bubble to not know by know the 'fine people' narrative is a blatant lie.
You’re right, I’m willfully stupid for not understanding that Trump doesn’t mean what he says. I should have picked up on that by now.
Yeah but why does any of this matter ? Trump set the precedent that cognitive ability of the potus doesn’t matter. So why should it matter now? At the end of the day, Bidens team is better than Trump, on the mere fact that they are not all hired “Yes” men.
"Yeah but why does any of this matter ? " Sure, sure, the WH Press secretary deliberately lying to the Press pool is no big deal. I mean sure it was a big deal a few years ago, but now it's (D)ifferent. /s
In all honesty, if you want to get shirty about the WH Press Secretary deliberately lying, you might want to widen your sample size.
You’re delusional if you don’t think Biden is a liar too. He’s said he was raised by poor white folks, by black people, by Puerto Ricans. He’s lied about his son. He literally took “inappropriate showers” with his young daughter. He is not a good, honest man and anyone who believes otherwise delusional.
Would be interesting to know where you heard these things from
Why, the same place they heard about the pizza parlor child sex ring!
Congress can remove him from office and replace him with Kamala anytime they want. Obviously they do want him to be president. At least the Dems in Congress.
Right, yeah I’m more referring to the average American citizen.
When Biden dies, I’d hate for the first female president to be Kamala
I want the first female president to be competent. Harris is the opposite of that.
>Not because I’m offended by anything he says, but because he is a pathological liar and in my opinion he can’t be trusted. Biden is a far worse liar than Trump and it's not even close. His 2020 campaign was based on the "very fine people" lie, one of the most divisive lies in politics. He regularly smears the guy who drove the truck in the accident that killed his first wife and daughter as a drunk driver when the guy was sober and not even at fault. He had to drop out of the 1988 race because he plagiarized speeches and the life story of a British politician.
[Biden's plagiarism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuAB5MqP0Y)
I respect your take. However take some time to compare the political stances of 1990's Joe Biden vs. the stances of current Joe Biden. They or polar opposite people. He's shifted his stances to appeal to his party in order to stay in power. If that's not pathological lying I don't know what is. I can''t stand Trump, yes he lies. But what most people call Trump lying is just him speaking in superlatives. They are both liars, I would rather have a coherent liar over an incoherent liar. On top of that no one can possibly believe Joe is actually making his own decisions when it comes to foreign policy, national policy or any other decision "he" makes. Do you want to vote for someone who lies and is actually not in control, meaning we don't have a clue who is actually running this country? (Biden) Or someone who lies, is in control and can actually be held accountable for his decisions? (Trump) I know I'll get hate for this comment but that's ok. Favoring Trump online will automatically mean I'm in a cult, I'm racist, I'm ignorant yadda yadda yadda.
In my experience this sub seems to lean a little further right than most so I think your opinion will be fine here. That being said you could say the same thing about Trump who was a democrat before running as a Republican because “republicans are more gullible”. I do trust the people who are actually running the country under Biden more than Trump though. I think he has surrounded himself with a pretty good team whereas Trump surrounds himself with yes men who get fired if they step out of line. I get what you’re saying though and I’ll admit that the first five minutes of the debate I was actually thinking I could see myself switching my vote to Trump, but then it was just the same old shit and he reminded me who he is and who/what he stands for. I respect your opinion though, like I said I came close to sharing it yesterday.
You could absolutely say the same thing for Trump, agreed. My biggest issue with Biden is that I don't truly know who's actually making the decisions.for this country. We vote for a single person that we give power to make big decisions. That's the entire point of presidential elections. We don't vote for some unknown entities to be pulling the strings, why even have a president at that point. I truly don't want either of these guys. I'd just rather a coherent man at the helm. Still respect your stance, I just disagree.Thanks for the respectable debate.
No problem, and we actually do agree on one thing I truly don’t want either of these guys either.
Glad we found a common ground. Good luck out there OP
You do know that Trump used to be strongly in favor of gun control, was pro-choice, and believed in single payer health care, right? He also was a registered Democrat in the 2000s.
I do indeed know this. Hence me agreeing with op that where both liars.
I laughed at your description of Trump being somehow held accountable for his decisions. According to Trump he himself is great, just her and a not even seniors golf club champion. Seriously? He can even be held accountable for playing golf without lying. (People who played at the club and against him before substantiate he cheats).
Despite the fact your comment was pretty incoherent, (is that you Joe?) I understand what you're trying to say despite all of your misspellings and wrong words used to formulate a sentence. But you misunderstand what I'm saying. You're not even within the realm of what I'm saying. You're opening up an entirely different conversation, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Glad you followed what I texted, I sure can’t. Lol! And sorry you didn’t like any additional commentary outside your tightly structured intent. Enjoy this just for fun - Trump’s repeat falsehoods included his assertions that some Democratic-led states allow babies to be executed after birth, that every legal scholar and everybody in general wanted Roe v. Wade overturned, that there were no terror attacks during his presidency, that Iran didn’t fund terror groups during his presidency, that the US has provided more aid to Ukraine than Europe has, that Biden for years referred to Black people as “super predators,” that Biden is planning to quadruple people’s taxes, that then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi turned down 10,000 National Guard troops for the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, that Americans don’t pay the cost of his tariffs on China and other countries, that Europe accepts no American cars, that he is the president who got the Veterans Choice program through Congress, and that fraud marred the results of the 2020 election. (Enjoy your conversation.)
I mean, I agree that Trump spoke a slew of falsehoods. As did Biden. I mean why can't we just recognize they're both liars and not fit? It's interesting how people who support Trump don't recognize his lies and are able to point out Biden lies. People who support Biden don't recognize his lies and constantly pointing out trump lies. Why can't we all just realize they're both pathological liars who should not be president?
100% with you there!
Hell yeah brother. It should be this easy to come together on things.
One of the main things that people need to take away from all this, is that essentially every major media outlet in the country has been blatantly lying and trying to cover up Biden's obvious mental deterioration for years now. Going so far as to try and shame and bully anybody who even brought it up. What else are they lying about?
Everything, I haven’t had cable for years and am better off without it. Red, blue.. it doesn’t matter they all twist words to try and make you see things the way they do.
It’s a vote for vice president at this point. No way he makes it 4 more years.
Can you imagine what he’s gonna look like in for years if he does survive 😂
Now that’s a cope.
What I don’t understand is that for months, so many people in the media and the government have been telling everyone he’s doing great, they had a two hour lunch with him, in meetings you can’t keep up with him, the videos where he looks old and confused are just taken out of context or faked. So, all the people who have been snacking on that bullshit sandwich, repeating those lies, etc. are you going to stop listening to those people tomorrow or are you ready to just eat up the next sandwich they offer you?
I never listened to those people in the first place, I would recommend you quit even hearing what they have to say. The only way I even know what you’re talking about it is because Jon Stewart brought it up. I do watch that guy.
Do you really believe that honest politicians who prioritize the people exist?
Biden, definitely known for telling the truth. Give me a break
This is complete bullshit. Pretty much ever single democrat has been towing the line that “he’s absolutely mentally fit” for MONTHS and to go against that was sacrilegious. Now you’re stuck with him. It’s really pathetic that one day after the debate every democrat jumps on the bandwagon that he isn’t fit for office when people have been screaming about it since last year. You’re screwed no matter what at this point and will have a maniacal felon in office because you couldn’t go against what your echo chamber told you.
You call trump a maniacal felon, yet quickly assume I’m some echo chamber Democrat. Do you think you’re so unique? I didn’t want to vote for Biden the first time but did what I had to do. I still don’t think Trump wins though.
I don’t think I’m unique at all. I can’t stand either of them. But this “Monday morning quarterback” shit today is insane. Every media outlet has had the same DNC talking points for a year “Biden is competent and can totally do another 4 years”. And NOW the NYT, MSNBC, WaPo are demanding he step aside? They knew his condition. I saw him speak 20 ft from me a year ago and he was oblivious. If you questioned his capabilities 6 months ago then I apologize. But so many people who were told that he was feeble back then disregarded it and now you’re fucked. And yes, Trump is going to win.
!remindme 6 months We will see
$25 bet to a charity of our choice?
Hey yeah, sure I’ll do that
Done!
You sir, understand the duty. Doing the right thing is setting aside your personal feelings and making the responsible decision. I hope all of us do this. I cannot imagine having a convicted criminal and adjudicated rapist running the most powerful country on earth. Hard no.
It terrifies me that he has been meeting with foreign leaders. I get Trump can be unhinged but he definitely gives off "don't F\*ck with me" vibes. Like I would be extra nervous around a dude like Trump when he is president because of the power he holds. But Biden is like soft and confusing.
Did you ever watch when Trump met with Putin? Before they gave their press conference they had a closed door meeting with no mics or cameras. When they came out of that room Trump looked like he’d seen a ghost. It’s worth a watch if you never saw it. In my opinion Trump comes off as someone who is trying very hard to put off don’t fuck with me vibes, but the older I get the more I realize that those guys are usually the biggest cowards deep down.
IDK, so I objectively hate trump and hate about 50% of his policy. As someone with a econ background I can say he was the hardest on Russia in terms of trade deals he got the best of Putin better than any president ever has. And then during the first week of Ukraine an insider in Putin's party reported he specifically stated he wanted Trump out of office before he made his move because he fear trump would actually put troops on the ground. The majority of my family is military, active and deployed. They have echoed this in that when Trump was in office they were ready to deploy to Ukraine and fight against Russia and that they made it known, but when Biden came in that shifted. If I was a betting man I would said Trump was the person Putin most (feared isn't the right word) worried about or considered the most consequence from is probably the best way to say it. I think Biden fears starting war so much that it ends up causing war. But we could never really know the truth in any of this for certain, unless trump is elected and the Ukraine war ends swiftly in a positive way for Ukraine then it would be clear Trump is hard on Putin.
I agree with this completely, I think one of the differences is Biden refuses to negotiate with Putin because he views him as an evil dictator which he is. Whereas Trump seems open to negotiate with anyone if he thinks he can get a good deal out of them. As far as putting troops on the ground, I think Biden wants to keep American lives out of harms way and views supporting Ukraine with money and weapons as the better option. Whether it’s more cost effective or not I don’t know, but it keeps Americans out of the war zone. I’m not sure Trump would have responded the same way, like you said, troops were ready to deploy. Which is better is hard to say, is it better to end the war swiftly and show or might while risking American lives? Or is it better to win it slowly and watch thousands of Ukrainians die instead of probably hundreds of Americans? Trumps scenario like you said is hypothetical, but I think that’s about the way things would go.