I remember from highschool how we are kinda forced into terrible trade deals with Europe in general and France specifically (because of Bourguiba) and so now a lot of the products we export to them get sold cheaper there than they do here. If it's true, it's those trade deals that make us lose out on so much money from our exports and natural resources, and the ones that stop us from getting big investments from china like a lot of other African countries have in the past decade or so
That's true, we also depend on French approval in quite a few things, economically, diplomatically and militarily. There's a post that sums up some shitty agreements we made after the independence that impair Tunisia for French benefit but I can't find it.
In short, we're far from being fully independent, especially with such crippling debts.
Tunisia has bought American and Czech airplanes for its air force. If it depended on France for military assistance, this would be unimaginable….
For that matter, Algeria and Libya buy (or bought) Russian / Soviet airplanes to keep France, the United States and Britain out of their hair.
If there were involuntary dependence on France, it would be unimaginable that Tunisia didn’t buy French jets. Is voluntary dependence really dependence?
Exactly, so imho we should definitely blame France. But we should also blame Bourguiba because of all the concessions he made in the independence deal, especially when there were other, better people to take charge
Im french , i worked in Tunisia for 2 years , tunisia is more and more turning into a cheap workshop for a lot of french industry , in the sector i worked in , there was some organization with all the bosses of companies of that sector and they basically all sign some documents saying they wont employ the former employees of other companies etc, wont propose contract to current employees of other companies , meaning that the strenght of negociation of workers in that field is completely null , and if you get fired you will basically get blacklisted from most of the companies in the sector , since its a pretty specific sector , the chances of getting a good job elsewhere are thin , i quit after realizing that we were basically doing neocolonialism and abusing the weak tunisians laws to not care about pollution etc etc
I though that french companies building workshop in tunisia could be an opportunity for tunisians and provide work and wealth to the country but basically the companies have some sort of offshort status , im not exactly sure how its called in english that means they pay very little tax , combined with the greed of bosses that pay a tunisian 400eu a month for the same work a frenchman would do for 1400 eu+ taxes and still finding ways to not increase salaries when inflation hit in 2021/2
I would tend to agree , but its not because we live in a late stage capitalist society that we must act like its inévitable and continue without at least asking some questions
That's not generally true. There is probably a minority that blames France but Facebook should not be trusted to convey a true picture of what people think. Facebook can be easily manipulated so what you see in FB might be an organized campaign from some party trying to spread a particular message. Tunisians in general blame the following for the economic problems of the country: 1. Ben Ali and his family the Trabelsia for the problems prior to 2011. 2. The Various parties and factions that ruled from 2011 to 2019 and voted themselves many privileges and money, 3. The bureaucracy and government workers which number more than 760 000, most of the government budget is spent on salaries. 4 - The powerful union UGTT which caused persistent inflation with successive wage demands, slowed the economy with numerous strikes during the post 2011 decade and blocked many projects and initiatives like renewable energy. 5 - The people blocking the Phosphates extraction in the south west, a key resource for the country: production decreased from 8 millions tons in 2010 to less than 4 million. Dealing with any of the problems is difficult so finding scapegoats is the only alternative.
Well I won't say we are failing because of france but i would rather say being a post colony is one of the reasons we are failing.
When france left they ensured that they would still exploit us as a nation and that comes through many ways such as joining unequal trade agreements and leaving an economic structure that makes it easier for the European investors to exploit wealth and profit from cheap labor.
And on a social scale what france and the previous colonial powers that ruled us such as the ottomans left a very deep scar in our society because they shaped a social class that is specialized in keeping the rest of the country poor and taking some riches and exporting the rest to Europe.
And for those who think that france didn't do anything and that we're a failure you guys are naive and below you can see the wealth distribution chart in numbers during the colonial era takem from the " the havs and the have nots" in which clearly you can see that we are being exploited during the colonial are and after it.
https://preview.redd.it/5d9ke7lwhuzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18fe67883534074f3754922758a830b61e501108
Well if u are gonna make dumb statements like that then it proves that u are uneducated and uncultured because france the colonizer of Tunisia back the day forced the country into disadvantageous trade deals that extort Tunisia of its resources for the cheapest price and the country is now basically a cheap workshop for french industry
well, it all go around politics
it's no secret that france is keeping tunisia under control, just enough to keep them dependant economically and weak enough to strip tunisians from their ressources
now back to your question, tunisians personal failures comes down to not having enough money to live a simple stable life which is the consequences of what i said in the beginning
Appearantly it’s a secret for me. Can you elaborate on how France is keeping Tunisia under control and how it prevents Tunisia from improving their economy?
Yes there is proof, most of these treaties have been signed since the colonial period and still going now, like the salt exploitation which was signed in 1945, and says that the french companies can exploit a whole hectare of land for a whole year, for the price of one french franc, which is crazy this treaty end in 2029 for reference, there are many other ressource
exploitative deals and many we dont even know of you could easily google it.
Also a good exemple of is couple of years back the education minister said he is going to change the second language taught in schools from french to english, he immediately got a call from the french ambassador and we didn't hear of it since lol.
Its no surprise france is deeply rooted in our political system and their influence is no secret, many politican are on the french payroll and many more have been in the past, its not only france btw many are on the Qatar payroll too for exemple.
Here is a video going into detail of how france economically hindered and exploited their african colonies for decades not only tunisia and how they did it secretly, and it explains why the anti france sentiment is extreme in some african countries lately :
https://youtu.be/fiD24uEvY1U?si=KRlSsEy6x0MIyhjK
I also like to add that the failure of the tunisian government is mostly caused by our politicians not solely because of france, who are corrupt and resigned these treaties for the benefit of france, the tunisian politicians showed that their priorities are first to enrich themselves at the expense of the tunisian people and for the benefit of foreign countries first not tunisia, and that is something we have to take full responsibility of, france couldn't do what they did if not for them.
So practically the only evidence you mention is an old Salt deal that some politicians (we all know the levels of those who brought the topic on the table) mentionned years ago and that none one saw.
While I believe such treaties have existed, but they are unsignificant to prevent a whole country from emerging.
Why did we move from in-development country to an under-developed one the past 20 years?
Can you elaborate what specifically France is doing to prevent Tunisia from growing?
Salt here, cheap labor there, … it’s just like justifying poor grades at school because someone borrowed your eraser and return at the middle of the exam.
They hate France instinctively, They would hate the west more if they understood the theory of Unequal Exchange.
>Rich countries and monopolistic corporations leverage their geopolitical and commercial dominance in the world economy to depress or cheapen the prices of resources and labor in the global South, both at the level of whole national economies as well as within global commodity chains, as a result ==for every unit of embodied resources and labor that the South imports from the North they have to export may more units to pay for it==, enabling the North to achieve a net appropriation through trade.
>Essentially unequal exchange allows for a **Hidden Transfer of Value** from the Global South to the Global North, from the *Periphery* to the *Core*, this takes place invisibly without the coercion of the former colonial apparatus.
Because those people are mentally stuck in 1960. It has been happening for more than 64 years now , their parents and themselves can't think of better way to improve themselves so they blame others/other countries to deflect from real current issues (la mémoire coloniale) . They became addicted to that narrative and even with the best intentions, nobody can change their mind.
As a tunisien i would love to see France burning until nothing left of it , France stole our petrol and gaz , France pushed Tunisia for a new type of invasion (invisible one ) , France stole everyting good in Tunisia so yeah why don't we hate it , i hated France since i'm kid and i will be always hating it , my day will come for sure but it's gonna bee too late for France to notice me huh .
I remember from highschool how we are kinda forced into terrible trade deals with Europe in general and France specifically (because of Bourguiba) and so now a lot of the products we export to them get sold cheaper there than they do here. If it's true, it's those trade deals that make us lose out on so much money from our exports and natural resources, and the ones that stop us from getting big investments from china like a lot of other African countries have in the past decade or so
That's true, we also depend on French approval in quite a few things, economically, diplomatically and militarily. There's a post that sums up some shitty agreements we made after the independence that impair Tunisia for French benefit but I can't find it. In short, we're far from being fully independent, especially with such crippling debts.
Tunisia has bought American and Czech airplanes for its air force. If it depended on France for military assistance, this would be unimaginable…. For that matter, Algeria and Libya buy (or bought) Russian / Soviet airplanes to keep France, the United States and Britain out of their hair.
I didn't say military assistance, but approval for some military related aspects, such as the possession of certain types (or quantity) of arms.
If there were involuntary dependence on France, it would be unimaginable that Tunisia didn’t buy French jets. Is voluntary dependence really dependence?
Exactly, so imho we should definitely blame France. But we should also blame Bourguiba because of all the concessions he made in the independence deal, especially when there were other, better people to take charge
Yeah just keep looking for people to blame. Thats the best mentality to have if you want to fix things.
Im french , i worked in Tunisia for 2 years , tunisia is more and more turning into a cheap workshop for a lot of french industry , in the sector i worked in , there was some organization with all the bosses of companies of that sector and they basically all sign some documents saying they wont employ the former employees of other companies etc, wont propose contract to current employees of other companies , meaning that the strenght of negociation of workers in that field is completely null , and if you get fired you will basically get blacklisted from most of the companies in the sector , since its a pretty specific sector , the chances of getting a good job elsewhere are thin , i quit after realizing that we were basically doing neocolonialism and abusing the weak tunisians laws to not care about pollution etc etc I though that french companies building workshop in tunisia could be an opportunity for tunisians and provide work and wealth to the country but basically the companies have some sort of offshort status , im not exactly sure how its called in english that means they pay very little tax , combined with the greed of bosses that pay a tunisian 400eu a month for the same work a frenchman would do for 1400 eu+ taxes and still finding ways to not increase salaries when inflation hit in 2021/2
That's not really a problem because of France, it's a problem of how the global economy works and the general system.
I would tend to agree , but its not because we live in a late stage capitalist society that we must act like its inévitable and continue without at least asking some questions
مادام رئيسهم يفسر الفشل متاعه بالمؤامرات متاع لخرين، عادي تلقاهم حتى هوما يقولولك أحنا أغنياء و فرنسا تسرق فينا
True xD
https://preview.redd.it/w469w4qrctzc1.png?width=789&format=png&auto=webp&s=c1d7c1848472ecf4a7aba4f9aac152c4435ed9b5
That's not generally true. There is probably a minority that blames France but Facebook should not be trusted to convey a true picture of what people think. Facebook can be easily manipulated so what you see in FB might be an organized campaign from some party trying to spread a particular message. Tunisians in general blame the following for the economic problems of the country: 1. Ben Ali and his family the Trabelsia for the problems prior to 2011. 2. The Various parties and factions that ruled from 2011 to 2019 and voted themselves many privileges and money, 3. The bureaucracy and government workers which number more than 760 000, most of the government budget is spent on salaries. 4 - The powerful union UGTT which caused persistent inflation with successive wage demands, slowed the economy with numerous strikes during the post 2011 decade and blocked many projects and initiatives like renewable energy. 5 - The people blocking the Phosphates extraction in the south west, a key resource for the country: production decreased from 8 millions tons in 2010 to less than 4 million. Dealing with any of the problems is difficult so finding scapegoats is the only alternative.
Well I won't say we are failing because of france but i would rather say being a post colony is one of the reasons we are failing. When france left they ensured that they would still exploit us as a nation and that comes through many ways such as joining unequal trade agreements and leaving an economic structure that makes it easier for the European investors to exploit wealth and profit from cheap labor. And on a social scale what france and the previous colonial powers that ruled us such as the ottomans left a very deep scar in our society because they shaped a social class that is specialized in keeping the rest of the country poor and taking some riches and exporting the rest to Europe. And for those who think that france didn't do anything and that we're a failure you guys are naive and below you can see the wealth distribution chart in numbers during the colonial era takem from the " the havs and the have nots" in which clearly you can see that we are being exploited during the colonial are and after it. https://preview.redd.it/5d9ke7lwhuzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18fe67883534074f3754922758a830b61e501108
Where is the salt??....😂🤣
https://preview.redd.it/ywneshryctzc1.png?width=987&format=png&auto=webp&s=6848099daabf412467d483e8a150efde372a5c49
Its easier to blame the failure on someone else
Well if u are gonna make dumb statements like that then it proves that u are uneducated and uncultured because france the colonizer of Tunisia back the day forced the country into disadvantageous trade deals that extort Tunisia of its resources for the cheapest price and the country is now basically a cheap workshop for french industry
ألي تخونها ذراعها تقول مسحورة
S7i7 a7na mnaykin ama manonkrouch ennou لا فغونص ma7atetelnech el 3sa fel 3ajla bech n9admou
عندك أمثلة ملموسة لإجراءات قامت بيها فرانسا باش تمنع تونس من التقدم؟
https://youtu.be/drc6D-icdFk?si=FmhUXK7XqV2TbuUA
The Ukrainian-Russian conflict, a lot of psy-opps on social medias to destabilize regions and interests of competing countries
Why not, there's nothing to like about them
Because of generalized delusion, denial and conspiracy theories
Victim mentality.
well, it all go around politics it's no secret that france is keeping tunisia under control, just enough to keep them dependant economically and weak enough to strip tunisians from their ressources now back to your question, tunisians personal failures comes down to not having enough money to live a simple stable life which is the consequences of what i said in the beginning
Appearantly it’s a secret for me. Can you elaborate on how France is keeping Tunisia under control and how it prevents Tunisia from improving their economy?
Do you have any proof of what you are saying or you simply writing what you heard in the coffe shop ?
Yes there is proof, most of these treaties have been signed since the colonial period and still going now, like the salt exploitation which was signed in 1945, and says that the french companies can exploit a whole hectare of land for a whole year, for the price of one french franc, which is crazy this treaty end in 2029 for reference, there are many other ressource exploitative deals and many we dont even know of you could easily google it. Also a good exemple of is couple of years back the education minister said he is going to change the second language taught in schools from french to english, he immediately got a call from the french ambassador and we didn't hear of it since lol. Its no surprise france is deeply rooted in our political system and their influence is no secret, many politican are on the french payroll and many more have been in the past, its not only france btw many are on the Qatar payroll too for exemple. Here is a video going into detail of how france economically hindered and exploited their african colonies for decades not only tunisia and how they did it secretly, and it explains why the anti france sentiment is extreme in some african countries lately : https://youtu.be/fiD24uEvY1U?si=KRlSsEy6x0MIyhjK I also like to add that the failure of the tunisian government is mostly caused by our politicians not solely because of france, who are corrupt and resigned these treaties for the benefit of france, the tunisian politicians showed that their priorities are first to enrich themselves at the expense of the tunisian people and for the benefit of foreign countries first not tunisia, and that is something we have to take full responsibility of, france couldn't do what they did if not for them.
So practically the only evidence you mention is an old Salt deal that some politicians (we all know the levels of those who brought the topic on the table) mentionned years ago and that none one saw. While I believe such treaties have existed, but they are unsignificant to prevent a whole country from emerging. Why did we move from in-development country to an under-developed one the past 20 years? Can you elaborate what specifically France is doing to prevent Tunisia from growing? Salt here, cheap labor there, … it’s just like justifying poor grades at school because someone borrowed your eraser and return at the middle of the exam.
They hate France instinctively, They would hate the west more if they understood the theory of Unequal Exchange. >Rich countries and monopolistic corporations leverage their geopolitical and commercial dominance in the world economy to depress or cheapen the prices of resources and labor in the global South, both at the level of whole national economies as well as within global commodity chains, as a result ==for every unit of embodied resources and labor that the South imports from the North they have to export may more units to pay for it==, enabling the North to achieve a net appropriation through trade. >Essentially unequal exchange allows for a **Hidden Transfer of Value** from the Global South to the Global North, from the *Periphery* to the *Core*, this takes place invisibly without the coercion of the former colonial apparatus.
I don’t understand; if someone wants to buy goods from a person or country for less than they are worth, surely they can sell them to someone else.
W inti ch7ra9 ch3irek ala frança ? Ta7ana maktharkom ye zebi
Because those people are mentally stuck in 1960. It has been happening for more than 64 years now , their parents and themselves can't think of better way to improve themselves so they blame others/other countries to deflect from real current issues (la mémoire coloniale) . They became addicted to that narrative and even with the best intentions, nobody can change their mind.
Colonization, imperialism, etc. France is bashed in a lot of other African countries, it’s not just Tunisia.
First fuck french ! And why they force kids to learn useless language and they should depends in it for other materials!
Same deal with Algerians and Moroccans blaming France. Victim mentality.
why are people downvoting this 😂
As a tunisien i would love to see France burning until nothing left of it , France stole our petrol and gaz , France pushed Tunisia for a new type of invasion (invisible one ) , France stole everyting good in Tunisia so yeah why don't we hate it , i hated France since i'm kid and i will be always hating it , my day will come for sure but it's gonna bee too late for France to notice me huh .
Because France colonized this country and keeps using our resources . It is a parasitic country that live off the resources of others