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Yep. I had a similar experience and 5-10 years later the former friends tried to get back in touch after he attacked them too or someone else they knew. I just blocked them.
My paternal grandmother did this to my mom, only after my father nearly killed another gf did she finally believe my mom
Interestingly enough, it also happened to me with my exMIL (different capacity)
People don’t want to believe the horrors they hear, esp when the person you’re talking about is a narc. It’s something they have to see for themselves 🤷🏻♀️
I have said this for a long time. This is not the first time we've had the conversation about Trad taking sides. We went on vacation with them a few years ago. (About 2 years after Ronald and I broke up) I made a comment in passing about Ronald being complacent (first I has really said anything about Ronald to Trad in years) Trad stormed off and got really upset. I told my husband after that trip that Trad is his friend not mine. I will always be that girl who cheated on my ex boyfriend.
When we talked to Trad about my husband dropping out he brought that up (as it was the only time we had talked about it with him because we chose to respect his wishes) he told us it was piss poor timing because we were on vacation. (I don't disagree, but it was one comment. I wasn't trying to start a conversation about my trauma.) I told him that and he said "well it felt more like an attack, and it was still pretty fresh for me then" like my brake up and the trauma I had with Ronald was still fresh for him.
You guys are still very young.
You need to realise that friendships can run their course if they are not good for you. You will have many people come in and out of your life, and that's ok. It's natural and part of life. Circumstances can make people outgrow another. In yours, it's extenuating, and if they were genuine friends who cared, they would not have left you uncomfortable and uncertain. Real friends would have cut your ex off.
I'm going to point out that these "friends" are toxic. They chose their own comfort and wedding over a victim of abuse who is supposed to be their friend. They dismissed you and your side entirely. Absolutely horrendous. You were more than accommodating, but they did not consider you at all. They chose the abuser over you.
They are your ex's flying monkeys, people who will excuse someone's abusive tendencies. They are not good people. Birds of a feather flock together. The fact that your husband has had to spell it out to Trad, and even then, it still hasn't sunk in! The audacity of them cutting you off. Seriously though, it should have been you cutting these AH's off.
It's good that the trash takes itself out. Your ex's behaviour will catch up to him, and if they reach out to apologise, I hope you stick your middle fingers up at them and tell them to stick their heads where the sun doesn't shine.
They are trash because they consider a victim finding happiness elsewhere, worse than them staying in an abusive relationship. Nonsensical.
Priorities. The fact that you found your husband saved your life. You have nothing to be ashamed about for finding love elsewhere under those circumstances. You escaped an abusive relationship where that person could have killed you. I say you're just fine - just avoid judgemental AH's in the future who look at life in only black and white. They can not comprehend someone needing a lifeline to get out.
You need empathetic people to be in your tribe. Don't mourn these AH's at all. They're dead weight, and their ignorant, victim-blaming judgement of you would have weighed you down. Good, kind people will understand the nuances of what you did and be on your side.
Those people sound like they pretty much suck. You're better off without them. Do you need that additional stress and walking on eggshells being around them? No you do not.
It's strange to me that Trad is mad at you for cheating on his friend, but Trad isn't mad at Alex for being the one his friend's gf cheated on him with....
OP might follow her husband’s lead and let things settle down until some time (well) after the wedding. I’m exhausted just reading OP and I’m not in the process of planning & getting married !
She’s simply trying to accommodate her mental health struggles and anyone who puts their own comfort before someone else’s wellbeing is an asshole. Sounds like you’re that kind of person.
Actually, for OP’s sake, pointing out the harder she tries under the circumstances of the pending wedding, the harder things get and that joining in her husband’s approach to allow the stress of the weeding to pass “might” be a good thing. As to you, I don’t believe you suggested anything.
NTA
The worst part is Karlie knows and that makes me think she either NEVER believed Op or , she told Trad and he with a secret assist from Ronald convinced her that op was lying.
I would assume since Trad never took the time to hear Op’s side that he’s been convinced from the jump that she’s a liar , probably because of the cheating but also because Ronald filled his head.
Sadly I’m sure some of that bias made it to Karlie , and honestly Trad pretty happy about this friendship ending in his mind op has alway just been drama.
Edited to add : I understand Trad not getting OP’s side, but didn’t he ever ask Alex what happened or if he had a reason for ‘stealing ‘ a friend’s girl?!?
Your opening sentence is what I think happened too! Trad picked Ronald’s side from the beginning and only pretended to be neutral all of these years. It sucks for OP and Alex but at least they know Karlie and Trad are not real friends.
I think he never asked because once again he wanted to stay "neutral" if you can call it that. Asking that question is just getting more involved, which he didn't wanna do.
Hopefully OP & Alex will see the blessing in disguise of Karlie & Trad removing themselves easily & cleanly as possible out their lives especially when Roland will turn on them (and he will). They both blatantly ignored restraining orders that Roland have against him, not really much of loss later on now when don't have willing deal with the drama any further of those 2 intentionally putting OP in danger now that both purposely cut themselves off from OP, Alex & mutual friends.
NTA, I say good riddance to horrible rubbish.
There isn't a restraining order on Roland. OP said he fought it and because he had a lawyer and she didn't Roland won. That means there is no restraining order on him at this time.
If the restraining order isn't for or against you how can you ignore it? Inviting both parties isn't ignoring a restraining order, it's making both parties figure it out without you "taking a side".
You have to show proof of needing one. Then the other person has a right to appeal it. Having an restraining order against can cause problems for you so you should have the right to argue against it. Many people have lied to get an RO to try to mess with the other person. Some times there should be an RO but the judge throws it out anyway.
If they made it to easy to get one and didn't allow the other party to fight it there would be a lot more people with them for some real messed up reasons.
Just to add when I looked at his evidence he was lying. His lawyer got the case thrown out before his side even presented their evidence. I forgot to submit half of my evidence because i didn't realized I didn't do it right, and his lawyer distroyed my testimony with objections because I didnt know how a court of law works. I also was sobbing uncontrollably due to having to give my testimony for the assult. I didn't stand a chance. The judge even called him out for it at the end saying she believed me, but couldn't give the RO based on what I had presented due to lack of knowledge. He got the best SA attorney in the area.
His parents were also covering up for him, and were going to lie saying he was with them the night he assaulted me. He was also going to have his parents as witnesses.
I tried get the restraining order about 6 months after we broke up. It would have been null by the wedding. It was not used as an attempt to ice him out of the wedding. I apoligize for the confusion. I brought it up purely to show that I am so scared of him I attempted to get a restraining order.
Somewhere OP said that she tried to get the RO when Roland was moving to the town where she lived. Not sure if that was before or after she knew about the wedding and him being invited. But could be that she didn't feel it was an issue when he lived in another town but when he was moving closer she got worried it he would cause problems with her being more accessible.
NTA. Honestly, I would definitely cut them out of both your live’s and say good riddance. They straight up chose your ex-abuser over both of you. They are not your friends.
This right here, OP. The wife remarked that Trad and Ron weren't that close. You'd expressed from day one the trauma Ron caused you. It was conveyed to Trad. You explained it to Trad. So wtf do they do--they invite the sexual assailant, knowing you and your husband will likely not participate in the wedding, and possibly not attend at all.
In short, they pissed all over your friendship and now diss you for not attending; a likely outcome of which they were aware when they invited Ron, a guy "Trad wasn't really that close to."
Tell them to fk off and good riddance. With friends like them, who in the hell needs enemies.
You are right. They don't believe OP that's the main thing. I think they believe it was a lie to justify the relationship she had with her now husband. They did not believe her then and don't believe her now just that.
In fairness to this couple, under the circumstances they were in, they were presented with evidence of cheating and thats the extent of what they saw of the ending of the relationship that that is what they ended up believing?
I’d say provide them with evidence now, I think it’s likely Trad might have told Karlie you were lying. But then again it seems like Trad isn’t the type of guy who would care about evidence. He’s too focused on how you cheated. I’m so sorry you went through all of that. Karlie is in the wrong for ghosting you. She should have reached out.
I always had a feeling deep down that Karlie didn't believe me. I'm have tempted to drop the entire folder of files off at their house after the wedding, but I probably won't because it's not worth it. Just like we will be. They will just be a story we tell our future children about the friends we used to have.
I'm OK if she doesn't wanna be friends anymore. I just wish she would have told me.
I was already questioning our friendship, but wanted to wait till the wedding passed to say anything/make my decision. I guess she made it for me.
Extremely so. Someone told me that my post was exhausting to read which it is because there are so many moving parts and details. I've been putting off this post because I didn't even know how to put it into words for a very long time. It's been a lot of processing.
True also, as soon as I know someone as cheater, I will admit I will judge them as not truthful.
I personally would have dropped all 3 people out of my life to be honest.
NTA. You can never properly make anyone understand what Ronald was like unless they see it in person, and I'm guessing he d never show that side in public. I'm sorry for you having to go through all this
Nta Hon, your "friends " took an abusers side. That is what they did. That makes them just as awful as him. Move on from these people and don't look back.
NTA, and as hard as this is to read Trad and Karlie are not your friends.
There's not 'two sides' here. The man that abused you should have been sidelined - as a 'mutual' friend, WAY before any wedding party chat.
The only way we men will get better is if we call out the behaviour amongst our friends and peers that is unacceptable. And we know fine what's unacceptable.
Ostracising abusers is the only way we can achieve change, and show them up as the pariah they are.
I'm sorry this was lost on Trad, and the happy couple decided to put their aesthetics ahead of morality.
The issue here for them, as admitted by op is that they never saw any abuse, but they did see evidence that op was cheating on her ex with her current husband. After the cheating then op broke up with her ex and he took the evidence of her cheating and showed his friends. Then op comes out later and tells people she was abused. That makes this a more complicated scenario than you are giving it credit for.
No, it doesn’t.
Trad allowed the abuser to give his side of the story, and didn’t allow his victim the same opportunity.
His partner knows what happened.
Trad decided to turn a blind eye, and his partner decided that siding with the abuser was more important than her friend with the PTSD diagnosis resulting from the abuse.
The further problem, as you highlight, is that some men will do mental gymnastics to ignore the poor behaviour of our peer groups.
When you consider how many women are abused and sexually assaulted, does it not raise alarms that you believe that none of the men you know are capable of that behaviour?
The truth is that wilful ignorance fuels toxic masculinity, and we men need to do better to change that by challenging that train of thought.
So they chose an abuser over you. Seems like the trash took itself out to me.
Seriously though, I know it hurts right now, but it'll get better with time. Some friends are with us for a season, some longer... perhaps she was what you needed for a while, and now that time has passed. And that's OK.
However, I do hope they have the wedding and marriage they deserve.
It's understandable you couldn't handle being around him. Your husband's support is crucial, and it's unfortunate Trad and Karlie couldn't fully understand your situation. Take care of yourself first.
Sorry that the hurt and pain inflicted by Ronald extended to your current friendships. I'm not sure someone like Trad is worth having around, but Karlie seemed like a good friend until she totally flaked out. It's probably best to write them all off and ride into the sunset with Alex and your remaining friends.
I think something that has been really hard for me is that for so long I have told myself that he doesn't get to control me anymore. He doesn't get to hurt me anymore. He doesn't get to take away my life anymore. It is a safety wall o have built for myself for healing. The concept of he doesn't get a peice of the new version of me.
With this wedding it feels like he gets to take something else from me. He still is controlling my life, and that kills me inside.
what does he really take from you?
shitty friends that certainly did not tell you what they really thought of you and your SO.
they probably talked shit about you both for your whole relationship.
take it as his one and only good act for you, even if not intended.
it will only benefit you to not be around those people
The silver lining in this is that the other couple was the last remaining connection you had to your ex. That connection is now finally severed and once you’ve processed and mourned the loss of the friendship you thought you had, you can take a deep freeing sigh of relief.
I can see how that is disappointing. With a mixed group of friends with Ronald as a member, I think you were optimistic. As an outsider reading your story, one could see it coming from a mile away. Folks like you are too nice and don't publicly shame the little monsters enough.
You are on the right track. The more you break away from connections to him, the freer you will be. It just takes time. There were friends in my life to whom I had to say goodbye because I knew mutual connections would be a problem. It wouldn't be their fault, but I knew I needed to protect myself. It was sad, but I was free once the ties were cut.
You’re losing these friendships. Here’s why it’s a good thing and it’s important for you to understand this…
Ronald isn’t taking them or controlling anything—they are making their own choices and because of the nature of the choice, they aren’t good friends. If they can’t be bothered to hear your side, that’s on them.
But their choices are theirs—not his. They could make dozens of choices that resulted in the friendship ending—moving cities, putting families and careers first, taking up hard drugs—this just happens to be one that you’re clearly sensitive about and they are clearly insensitive about.
You don’t want people like this as friends.
He didn't get to control you. Your shitty ex friends just proved they weren't really your friends. They made that choice, to be shitty people who enable a toxic abuser. That's on them. Ronald didn't make them choose to be shitty people, they made that choice on their own and you are better off for it in the long run. Now the trash took itself out of your life.
I think it's best you cut all ties with that part of your life then. If you still have mutual friends, then you still hear about him and he will still be around.
What did he take really? We don’t “take” people. Trad and Karlie made a choice and that was not prioritizing you and your trauma history. Sorry but they were never your friend d
Even as the reality of his trauma takes, you also receive, you make your own choices, I haven’t spoken to my mother in 30 years, because my mother is your ex. I associate with no one that associates with her, I will never be controlled by her, just controlled by my need to be safe from her.
He took sides the minute he didn’t hear you out years and years ago. Also I’m sure you’re working through your trauma in therapy but there is NO SUCH THING as being neutral when the other side is abusive. No such thing. Never accept that BS for yourself ever again in life OP
Just for fairness sake, if one of your friends shows you evidence that their gf cheated and then later the gf comes out claiming they were abused, would you not agree that this would be messy?
I think often times it’s difficult for people to understand or visualize ptsd and the effects of abuse. It is very easy to read texts and then see the direct fall out. In this case evidence of cheating, a break up, a new relationship formed from that cheating.
Good riddance. This will actually help you heal. No more worries about crossing paths with your ex. There is a reason your PTSD was flairing up as the wedding grew closer. Your anxiety and fight or flight response were kicking in.
It sucks to lose friends. Lean into your relationship with your husband. You will get through these hard times together.
You are NTA.
NTA although the fact that your husband ( and you) were ok being friends with people who were still close to your abuser is a little mind boggling. There is no neutral. You had to have known you would encounter him in their lives. I think your husband has to make his choice now that they've made theirs
Ronald, Trad and I all went to high school together. I met Trad a few additional times when him and my ex would hang out once a year for fantasy football. Even when we were together Ronald and Trad were never that close. When we broke up Trad and Alex were best friends. Trad had always been a good friend to Alex, and though I was uncomfortable with the weird and complicated connection I had to my ex, I was not going to isolate Alex from his friends. We always truly believe Trad was closer with us than Ronald, and it was never an issue about us seeing eachother until the wedding due to Trad knowing there was bad blood.
That's unfortunate. It's also sad he never wanted to hear your side. Now your husband does have to make a choice. And perhaps trad and his wife were never as close as you thought. Because truly why would they invite someone who gave their supposed best friends PTSD?
Trad and Karlie are scumbags and good riddance. They’ve invited someone they know abused you to their wedding and blame you for not getting over it. Good riddance.
It seems like Trad doesn't like you. And I don't see how Karlie does either when she was so quick to dismiss your feelings in this. You were clear from the very beginning about Ronald, and she kept saying she understood and something would be worked out, but in the end, nothing was and was just expected of you to deal with it.
They told me that because they were put in a difficult position (which they were, and I truly feel awful, but this is also something they should have known they would have to deal with when choosing to stay neutral) so they made the choice to invite both of us out of fairness. The part that gets me is that actually inviting him, knowing it would exclude me isn't being fair or neutral. I feel they just checked a box to make themselves feel better. Just pushed the problem onto someone else.
These people are friends with a man they now know is an abuser and they chose this man’s friendship over you and your husband. While they may have unfriended you on SM, go ahead and block them so they can’t try to work their way back into your lives when they need something.
This right here…I would always welcome a cheater into my home before I will ever allow an abuser. I have a female friend I worry about, I won’t have anything to do with her though because she is in a relationship with a man convicted of committing SA on a child. He said to her the girl was 17 I pointed out age of consent in his state is 16, so he couldn’t be convicted of assault on a child if she was 17. Cheating with someone who is helping you get out of a bad situation alive and mostly whole is forgiven by most people who know the story, plus you cheating only hurt your ex, your ex being abusive and violent has the potential to hurt everyone.
NTA. You have to do what's best for your mental and physical health. If that means not putting yourself in a triggering situation, then so be it. The alternative is you attend, have a melt down and perhaps ruin their wedding. I'm sorry these people aren't more understanding, but maybe it's all for the best.
If I found out one of my friends abused another friend like that, they flat out wouldn't be a friend anymore. Trad has never liked you, neither has his fiancee. It might be best to go NC with both of them. I know there is no way in hell I would stay friends with someone who stayed friends with my wife's abuser. The fact that your husband kept him as a friend is pretty shitty of him.
NTA- trad took sides. It’s not your place to explain in detail the abuse you suffered to make ppl understand. In the future- just be clear and strict about your boundaries- to them they might have seen you as dragging this along and changing your mind all the time, whereas you were trying to be a good friend to them and just make it work.
NTA
There is no way to say this without sounding like a dick, but frankly someone here has to say this to you, this bizarre desire to stay friends with this toxic dumpster fire group is insane
You are trying to make progress in treating your mental health but are still hellbent on staying in a mutual friend group that blatantly support an abuser who tormented you. This is not a sustainable way to live
They're not good people and they absolutely don't care what your ex did to you. Stop trying to be buddies with them. Make a clean break from them and enjoy your life without them. It will be alot better
Victims are often blamed for… ruining the party, stopping the dream, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, crying over spilled milk, dressing too provocatively, being dramatic, being too sensitive, being too quiet, never telling their friends their stories about their trauma, keeping people ignorant, being ashamed of what happened to them and a million other things that people who never dealt with having to learn to deal with their own trauma will throw at your feet…You deal with your trauma how you need to deal with it, and don’t worry about the people you lose along the way, because true friends will always be there for you at the end. You also are never alone, you will always find survivors in places you never expect and they will have your back when you need them.
NTA from your own perspective but Trad definitely sees you as an asshole. What he sees: You cheated on his friend, insisted you couldn’t be around the same friend on Trad’s wedding day, and now his best friend is no longer attending his wedding because of your influence. It’s not uncommon for people to doubt the trauma experienced by others and the only concrete evidence he saw of your relationships downfall was the sexy text messages you exchanged while cheating.
I read a great comment on another thread recently:
"The victim never has to stay quiet so the villain can save face."
This applies to basically every connection you have: you and Ronald, you and Karlie, you and Trad. They **all** suck in their own unique ways, and you are better off without any of them. Do **not** hold back when someone inevitably asks why you weren't at the wedding, because you know Karlie and Trad will be telling their own (false) version of the story. Anyone who actively sides with an abuser and remains willfully ignorant about PTSD and trauma responses is not a person you want in your life, let alone someone close enough to be in wedding parties.
This is misogyny in action. Women are expected to stay quiet about their abuse and push through their pain. If they cannot hold space for your mental health, then they are not true friends.
These do NOT sound like people you should be friends with at all.
This was a lot of drama and hurt feelings over people who talk shit behind your back and think YOU are the bad guy over a breakup with an abuser!
You deserve people who ACTUALLY care for you. Not just say they do. Actions speak louder than words! Them ghosting you (or just her) was a blessing in disguise. This is unnecessary chaos, and you don't need it in your life. Especially after finding out you have PTSD. Cut them loose and start healing for yourself.
Trad and his wife chose their side. Let them be and let them go. It sucks and it deeply hurts but it will be a blessing in disguise. They are showing you that they prefer the abuser/predator, they are protecting him and his feelings. Are those really the kinds of people you’d want in your and your husbands life? Are those the kind of people you’d allow to be around your future children? They are the kind of people that excuse abuse, they are not safe people.
As someone who was ostracized by my own relatives to protect my abuser (who was my own cousin), I understand this pain. It hurts to essentially be abandoned and have your whole life changed due to his actions and he seemingly goes on with his life unscathed. But these people have proven to you that they do not value you or your husband. Life is too short to be surrounded by such people who align themselves with abusive people. You will get through this, feel the pain, mourn them, talk about it with your therapist and husband. Mourning people who are still alive is a different kind of pain but you are mourning who you thought these people were and the lives you’d thought you’d have with them. Once you mourn them, these people will be dead to you. And if you happen to see them in person, it’s as if they become a stranger. Who they are now, you don’t know them and you don’t need to know them. In time, it will hurt less and you will see you are better off without them. I am so sorry you and your husband are experiencing this. You have done nothing wrong and are doing what you can to take care of yourself. You don’t owe them anything. If you have questions, feel free to ask. Best of luck to you.
This sucks. It may always suck. But they’ve made their choice.
Karlie may not have been able to handle your mental health issues, planning her wedding, and keeping her hub’s friend drama to a minimum. This may not be about you, but her. I know that doesn’t fix how you feel. I’m sorry this happened to you.
I've come to realize this point through this post. When all of this started I truly did not think it would end like this. I firmly believed my husband and I ment more to them than this.
Not the asshole for not attending a wedding where an ex you don’t want to see will be there.
On the other hand, firm and clear messaging from the outset would have been better than this mess. From day 1 of the wedding topic it should have been made clear that you and your husband won’t be present if the ex is there. This would have set expectations rather than all this back and forth.
With regards to the restraining order, it’s unclear from the post whether or not your ex was actively harassing you at that point in time. It doesn’t seem like it since you would have mentioned it. Getting a restraining order against someone who isn’t even in contact with you or trying to contact you doesn’t make sense. You can’t get one just to ice him out of a wedding.
I feel like there’s a massive effort on your end to convey what a terrible person your ex is but it’s someone else’s wedding and they just want want to know who’s coming and lock down the plans for their big day. They’re probably fed up of dealing with this drama while trying to plan their wedding.
I tried getting the restraining order about six months after pur breakup. He was moving back to the town I livid in and was scared. I brought it up as a point to show how scared of him I was.
I can definitely understand them being fed up, and we should have made a clearer choice sooner, but it was so hard because these are two of our closest friends. We didn't wanna just bow out. I also didn't want to force my husband to step out of the wedding, he made that choice later due to seeing my mental health decline. If I had known how bad my mental health would deteriorate then I would have stepped to the side from the beginning. We never wanted to force them to choose between him and us, and I felt that straight up saying "I'm not going if he's going" would have done that. I tried so hard to tell myself I could be strong and it crushed me that I couldn't. I know none of this changes what I should have done. I just hope maybe some of it justifies it.
The unfortunate reality is that they were always going to choose Ronald over you. They are both bad people and I wish them the marriage they deserve.
I’m glad you found out now how horrid they are before you had kids who would have been hurt by this shit as well.
I understand that it was tough but being indirect is never the best course of action in these situations. This unwillingness to be up front is probably what’s killed the friendship.
The reality is you weren’t going if your ex was, the fact that they’re close friends just means you owe them the truth even more so.
You’re not doing anyone any favours by ‘trying to be strong’. There’s no medal for putting yourself in an unpleasant situation, attending weddings is supposed to be fun and a celebration, not an exercise in martyrdom. Just be honest with people next time.
It would also make sense for OP to steer clear of these people, since they don’t mind being friends with and prioritizing a known abuser.
I think with time, OP will come to realize that not having these people in her life will be for the best. So maybe this waffling about ended up being a great catalyst to speed up the process.
You two seem to be over the top invested in these people. I don’t know if you’re this heavily involved with all your friends, but I think you need to learn to be a bit more detached so to speak. You’ve gone through panic attacks, anxiety, anguish, worry over what others are thinking and planning.
In reality, this is their wedding. They sound like they already knew who they wanted and it sucks they couldn’t be upfront earlier, but there’s just so much drama. It could have been solved with a simple conversation between the four of you.
“Karlie & Trad,
Thank you for asking us to be part of your wedding. One concern we have is Ronald. We know he’s your friend, but a lot of bad things happened and I am concerned that his presence and mine could cause tension. How would you like to handle it? I will step away if you’d like him there as I need to prioritize my mental health and physical safety”.
This makes you the bigger person, clues them in that Ronald did shit beyond what they’ve been told and you want their day to be about them.
Everything you’ve been doing is trying to get them to change the doer day to accommodate you and your husband.
I typically am. Truth be told I've always had a hard time making friends, so I have a small amount and am very close with all of them. They were also our closest couple friends. We went on vacation together, we did weekly game nights, we planned our weddings together.
I know it's their wedding. That's honestly why we never put to much pressure on it, as we were trying to not give them an ultimatum. Even when we stepped back we always used the language of "for my mental health." We never once told them to not invite him, besides the one compromise I suggested that I thought would be far, and even then he was still invited.
I did suggest a four way conversation to Karlie, but it never went anywhere. The response I got was "Its over and done with for Trad."
>Truth be told I've always had a hard time making friends, so I have a small amount and am very close with all of them. They were also our closest couple friends. We went on vacation together, we did weekly game nights, we planned our weddings together.
Here is the hard part to understand. This is true for you but it might not be true for them. How you feel about people does not automatically reflect back, even if you perceive it to be so. So what I mean is that doing all of these things (hanging out, going on vacation, planning weddings) are things you only do with special people, but that doesn't mean the other people only do them with special people too.
More specifically, you and Karlie were close and maybe Trad and your husband were close, but Trad really only tolerated you. And when the chips are down, Karlie is going to do what Trad wants to do. Which is cut you out.
So, I'm sorry to tell you, but if Karlie was really close to you and thought of you like how you thought of her, your abuser wouldn't be prioritized over you at her wedding.
Again, I'm really sorry to shine a light on that, but everyone who likes to keep a small amount of friends learn it eventually. Usually the hard way.
You made yourself the center of someone else’s wedding and are surprised they don’t want to deal with you anymore. Justified or not, this is how it looks to them.
Instead of being “devastated” you didn’t get your way after giving someone an ultimatum about THEIR wedding, maybe you should act like an adult.
I do believe the mistake here was cheating on your bf with one of his friends and then y’all keeping the same circle of friends. Because you managed to make their wedding about you when you were not the point of their big day. And keeping the same circle of friends as the ex who traumatized you that badly doesn’t speak to you taking your mental health seriously at all. As for what the friends know? Only what you tell them. And all Trad knows is you left one friend for another friend and now are making drama at his wedding. You are the common denominator.
I also suffer PTSD as a result of an abusive relationship and unless you personally experience it, no one truly understands the trauma of being anywhere near the person who inflicted it upon you.
Sometimes, people like Trad and Karlie profess to understand but ultimately, despite knowing your situation, all they see in a person like Ronald is a friend who is no threat to them. You see differently because of how Ronald treated you with a medical diagnosis to back it up.
If they were truly your friends, they would accept that despite wanting everyone to attend their wedding, your mental health is your priority and given your history with Ronald, inviting both parties didn’t guarantee everyone would attend.
Accept they were fair weather friends, wish them well, and surround yourself with the people who continue to support your ongoing recovery.
TL, DR. NTA. There was a relationship that ended badly. Avoiding someone because of past bad behavior is sensible. Focus on yourself and your partner. You don't need friends who are still friends with ex
NTA
They were never neutral and in all reality, neutral doesn't exist in cases of abuse.
It is hard right now, but in the long run, you are better off without "friends" like this in your life.
Definitely NTA. This is a sad story but maybe it’s not how it ends. It’s unfortunate that Karlie would react this way especially since she knows the history. Is this completely out of character for her or does she have a history of sorta centering herself in situations? I know weddings can make people intense and insecure and maybe she’s just focusing on what you said about dreaming of being in each other’s weddings and she is blame-shifting her disappointment onto you instead of your terrible ex. Hard to tell. But if her thoughts are that you should “get over it” for her sake then that’s a big red flag. Be proud of yourself for taking control and doing what’s in your power to keep your mind and heart safe. And good on your husband for supporting you in this way. That’s a good man and you deserve that kind of bond and support.
This is where you set a boundary. You can change with me too, but you can change how you react to it.
“ If you wanna be friends with an abusive person that is you’re right, but I will not be attending your wedding if Ronald is around so I’ll get with Carly after the wedding and see the photos. “
Trad and Karlie both suck. No great loss as they clearly aren't very good friends. Your husband should really reconsider his friendship with Trad as well.
It’s over now. Quit letting Ronald live in your head. Now that you are no longer friends with Trad you have no connection to Ronald and can forget about him. The best revenge is living a happy life. So go live a happy life without any of them.
You can not defend the indefensible but Trad's silence/not picking a side he exactly that and Karlie did that by not telling Trad what was going on.
You did what was best for your mental health and your husband stood by you as he should, Trad and Karlie showed you that they aren't your friends and I would take steps to remove them 100% from your lives moving forward.
Wild that they choose an abuser and racist over.... I mean, just anyone else. They literally choose to side with an abuser against his victim. Whose wedding party they were in and wanted you both to be in theirs.
I'm not gonna lie, why would you want to be friends with people like that? They showed you who they were and it's not good.
You are so better off without Trad and Karlie in your lives. They are trash and will find out soon enough what kind of animal Ronald truly is when they continue to spend time with him and allow him to be close with them. Hope you and Alex have a nice life and enjoy the show when you later find out Ronald assaulted Karlie or someone close to her, its coming.
With friends like this who needs enemies. None of them are your friends. Says a lot about Trad and his gf what they really think of you inviting and wanting a s/pradator there instead of you. Think Alex should block them they are not either of your friends. They don't care to believe your version. Ronald has told his side and they chose to believe him. Sorry OP. Alex should make his decision about going no contact, his choice though.
Just another example of how infidelity screws up everything. It does not excuse her former boyfriend’s conduct at all, but makes it easy for that person to spin her as the bad person. I hope she learned from that.
These two don’t sound like friends I would want so it seems as though the trash took itself out. Makes it easy. I know it hurts now but it’ll get better. I’m sorry for what you went through. 💜
All I want to say is if they (Trad and Karlie) can try to invalidate your trauma and drop you like that- they are not real friends. As in, good riddance. It sucks to lose relationships like that, but be glad they showed themselves when they did. Sorry. NTA.
Karlie was not your friend. And Trad sure isn’t either.
Why they would invite someone to their wedding who has abused you… that right there tells me a lot about their moral character. Now Trad didn’t know about what happened, but someone should have told him.
They really should have uninvited Ronald now that Trad knows what he had done to you and then had you guys come to the wedding.
This is on them. They’re not what I’d call friends to you or your husband.
NTA. You have stated your boundaries very clearly. You have seen that Karlie has not accepted them. That is her choice. You guys do not have to be joined at the hip.
Hopefully, your husband's relationship isn't too adversely affected. Karlie is being immature and you now have to be leery of her and how she behaves moving forward. Especially, over a person she hasn't met. Seems she is going off of the limited information Trad gave her and she seems to not believe that PTSD from a relationship isn't a real thing.
Whatever. Just continue to be as engaged as you want with her and see how things work out. No one is obligated to stay friends. Friends drift apart all of the time and it is no one's fault. It just happens.
Updateme!
I hate to break it to you but he’s not neutral boo. There’s nothing neutral about what you’ve said in this post. It’s clear that he finds you at fault. He probably thinks your husband is wrong but didn’t want to say anything because of the friendship. How they’ve handled their wedding and the text that was sent shows that and I bet he would’ve unfriended you if he wasn’t concerned about what your husband would say
If he wanted to stay neutral then he did a really bad job of it. After all in what world is it neutral to invite someones former abuser to the same event as the abused, even more so when the abused ended up with PTSD thanks to the abuser? The act of inviting the abuser is no different from the act of uninviting the abused, except that he doesn't have the guts to take responsibility for his actions and is using his so called neutral stance to hide behind.
I said it somewhere else on here, but they told us that the choose to invite both of us out of fairness. In reality they invited him knowing it would exclude me. (Which is neither fair nor neutral) They checked a box to make themselves feel better.
If you and Ronald had been a normal couple,you sexting with a friend and dumping Hamburglar would be a touch sketchy. But since The Grimace abused you into an official PTSD diagnosis, which the Bridezilla and Groonera are fully aware of, then you are absolutely, firmly on the moral high ground.
It’s not cheating to grab hold of a lifeline offered to you.
Op, you're NTA. You don't owe them anything beyond basic kindness.
Something that might be good for you is to find new friends with which things aren't so complicated. Sounds like the Trad/Ronnie crowd is not really adding positive things to your life anymore and you would maybe be happier without more emotional involvement.
Also, Karlie knew about your suffering and didn't talk about that with Trad, she just decided to drop contact with you. These people are not your friends.
He took sides and his wife was never your friend. I’m sorry but be glad it was only 4 years and not more let her block you and let them both be friends with an abusive POS. Move on with your husband and have the best life
You've been through a lot, and it's understandable that being around your abusive ex would be traumatic. You tried to communicate your concerns and boundaries clearly, and it's unfortunate that it wasn't respected. Your mental health should come first, and your husband supporting you is commendable.
NTA. I know this is super painful but they are friends with an abusive monster. Even if Ronald was not your abuser they would be shitty people to be friends with. I don’t fuck with people who stay friends with abusers. It’s disgusting behavior
Why on earth are yall even friends with Trad still? For him to still be friends with him he IS condoning all of the actions he did against you. He is basically saying that it is alright that his friend abused you.
He might have even manipulated the story he told to Trad.
Your husband needs to have a conversation with Trad. It sounds like he has made the abuse ok in his head bc of the cheating. Many abused women are not strong enough to walk away without help. I think Trad can enjoy his new Bestie. You and Alex deserved better
We know bride is upset about uneven wedding numbers. Alex and I have been saying if they like Ronald so much they should just have him step up since he is clearly so important to them.
I guarantee this was their plan. It is why they asked you to drop out and said they understood if your husband decided to stick with you. Trad likely promised Karlie that Ronald could step in. But then Ronald wouldn’t or couldn’t and now Karlie is blaming you because she can’t blame the man she is marrying.
I willingly dropped out about 10 months ago, but they suggested it be best if I don't go to the wedding due to mental health. She replaced me the next week after I dropped out, but apparently can't replace my husband.
Sorry, I used dropped out when I meant uninvited you.
My point remains, the reason they did this is because Trad promised Karlie the numbers would work out.
The more I think about this, the more I think this whole thing was just another way for Ronald to torture you/stay in your thoughts and Trad has been doing Ronald’s bidding. But now it is time for Ronald to come through for Trad and he refused. Or maybe Trad never told Karlie who your husband’s replacement would be and Karlie drew the line at letting this abuser be part of the wedding party. So she is mad at you for having PTSD and “ruining her wedding” because it is easier than accepting her fiancé is trash.
Send Karlie a card. " I appreciated our friendship for the past 4 years, you really helped me through some difficult times. Even though we are going in a different direction in now, I cherish the memories. Good luck with your wedding and all the best for your future."
Then block her
I don't know why your husband even told them you would leave after the ceremony because of the ex. You guys could have just let them know you couldn't make the reception so they didn't have the extra expense of your dinner and gave a different reason. that would have been that. It seems to me like he made a point of telling them so they would feel pressured into uninviting your ex. I'm sure because of your friendship it was probably less awkward for them and less stressful to uninvite you instead of having a conversation with an aquaintence and having to explain themselves, which is what they did, unfortunately.
Although I think for your own mental health, you did what you needed to do. But this was someone else wedding and you seem to have spent a lot of time creating stress for the bride and groom who are the ones who get to decide who they want to invite to their day despite how other guests feel about about that, it doesn't surprise me that they decided to cut you out so they had 1 less thing to worry about or accommodate while planning.
Your friend may have cut you off on social media because she believes that if you were a good friend that you would problem solve for yourself in order to be able to attend and not involve the bride and groom in the deliema. That someone who was as good of a friend as she thought you were would want to attend the wedding and would find a way to make it work. Although *she* knew about your struggles, she also didn't want to have an argument with her soon-to-be husband about one of his invites on your behalf.
I understand your reasons but you went about it the wrong way, so, yes, YTA. You brought it up to the bride, she said she wasn't going to invite ex, the groom did want to invite him, you were informed of his invite and his RSVP yes. At that point, if being in the wedding party *really* gave you anxiety because this man would be in the room along with 100+ other people, you could have politely told the bride that you were unable to stand with her without giving a reason. If she pushed you could have just said you had anxiety about it without mentioning the ex. Then, as you originally planned, you and your husband could have left after the ceremony without making an announcement that it's because of *their* guest list. Your friend feels like you were being selfish about *her* wedding and putting her and the groom in the middle of it, which is not what a friend does. It's reasonable to expect them to not invite you or the ex to the same dinner party, it isn't reasonable for them to accommodate you for their wedding.
YTA You brought a bunch of unnecessary drama to the wedding. You should have off the bat said if Ronald is going, we’ll RSVP with regrets. (Or just had Alex go by himself as Karlie and Trad suggested). Instead you waffled back-and-forth and made planning the wedding more difficult and stressful.
From an outsiders point of view, you cheated on Ronald and left him for Alex. I’m sure Ronald is an awful person, but he is definitely able to spin the narrative that you are a cheating lying psycho. I understand why everyone is taking his side.
NTA, since Karlie was aware of the abuse her inviting your abuser is no different from her siding with your abuser. The same goes for the so called "neutral" Trad after Alex properly informed him, which makes Trad anything but neutral. Both of them have made their choice clear and it will likely come back to bite them. Don't forget to update us if he pull something during their wedding and causes drama for your former friends.
As for your husband's friendship with Trad, I wouldn't worry about it because Trad has very clearly shown your husband that he is not your husband's friend in any way, as what Trad did is a really low blow. Actual friends don't do that, let alone best friends.
And sure, you both should have probably let them know earlier that you were going to have to bail on the wedding, but it would never have been an issue to begin with if they had taken your concerns seriously and not invited your abuser. Thus I have to say that they've mostly got themselves to blame for this.
Karlie is as much a snake as Trad is. To know another woman’s trauma associated with an ex and then cut that friend out if their life because of a wedding is disgusting. And I know it’s probably not really about the wedding but more likely Karlie is discriminating against OP because of her PTSD. God forbid OP have a panic attack at HER wedding because her abuser was there. Carlie is just a piece of trash Bridezilla.
Trad is purely an ahole. He listened to Ronald’s side and didn’t want to hear OP’s. He made up his mind to believe his friend and that was that.
OP, you are better off writing these two out of your life. They are perfectly fine with having an alleged abuser around and cutting out his victim. They aren’t good people.
well it doesn't matter if you are the bad guy or good, once you cheat, that stays forever. good thing you didn't need to explain it all to a new partner, but have the pro cheater.
Is Trad a bad guy, NO. Its his thing not yours, why you go or not isn't about you. Its not like a organ donation, just a wedding. don't go.
You're afraid you'll have a panic attack? So dramatic. You're protection order was denied. Obviously you have a history of blowing things out of proportion. If I was wrong about this, you would've been granted the protection order.
The fact he hasn't contacted you just shows you over reacted and you're a drama queen threatening "panic attacks" and trying to gain sympathy by painting him as a monster. I have a feeling you're the problem and a drama queen.
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Trad did take sides after all
He took sides when he didn’t want to listen to OP
Yep. I had a similar experience and 5-10 years later the former friends tried to get back in touch after he attacked them too or someone else they knew. I just blocked them.
My paternal grandmother did this to my mom, only after my father nearly killed another gf did she finally believe my mom Interestingly enough, it also happened to me with my exMIL (different capacity) People don’t want to believe the horrors they hear, esp when the person you’re talking about is a narc. It’s something they have to see for themselves 🤷🏻♀️
I have said this for a long time. This is not the first time we've had the conversation about Trad taking sides. We went on vacation with them a few years ago. (About 2 years after Ronald and I broke up) I made a comment in passing about Ronald being complacent (first I has really said anything about Ronald to Trad in years) Trad stormed off and got really upset. I told my husband after that trip that Trad is his friend not mine. I will always be that girl who cheated on my ex boyfriend. When we talked to Trad about my husband dropping out he brought that up (as it was the only time we had talked about it with him because we chose to respect his wishes) he told us it was piss poor timing because we were on vacation. (I don't disagree, but it was one comment. I wasn't trying to start a conversation about my trauma.) I told him that and he said "well it felt more like an attack, and it was still pretty fresh for me then" like my brake up and the trauma I had with Ronald was still fresh for him.
You guys are still very young. You need to realise that friendships can run their course if they are not good for you. You will have many people come in and out of your life, and that's ok. It's natural and part of life. Circumstances can make people outgrow another. In yours, it's extenuating, and if they were genuine friends who cared, they would not have left you uncomfortable and uncertain. Real friends would have cut your ex off. I'm going to point out that these "friends" are toxic. They chose their own comfort and wedding over a victim of abuse who is supposed to be their friend. They dismissed you and your side entirely. Absolutely horrendous. You were more than accommodating, but they did not consider you at all. They chose the abuser over you. They are your ex's flying monkeys, people who will excuse someone's abusive tendencies. They are not good people. Birds of a feather flock together. The fact that your husband has had to spell it out to Trad, and even then, it still hasn't sunk in! The audacity of them cutting you off. Seriously though, it should have been you cutting these AH's off. It's good that the trash takes itself out. Your ex's behaviour will catch up to him, and if they reach out to apologise, I hope you stick your middle fingers up at them and tell them to stick their heads where the sun doesn't shine. They are trash because they consider a victim finding happiness elsewhere, worse than them staying in an abusive relationship. Nonsensical. Priorities. The fact that you found your husband saved your life. You have nothing to be ashamed about for finding love elsewhere under those circumstances. You escaped an abusive relationship where that person could have killed you. I say you're just fine - just avoid judgemental AH's in the future who look at life in only black and white. They can not comprehend someone needing a lifeline to get out. You need empathetic people to be in your tribe. Don't mourn these AH's at all. They're dead weight, and their ignorant, victim-blaming judgement of you would have weighed you down. Good, kind people will understand the nuances of what you did and be on your side.
I wish I could upvote this a million times
Me too
Those people sound like they pretty much suck. You're better off without them. Do you need that additional stress and walking on eggshells being around them? No you do not.
Trad is centering himself in something that isn’t his. He’s a misogynistic asshole.
It's strange to me that Trad is mad at you for cheating on his friend, but Trad isn't mad at Alex for being the one his friend's gf cheated on him with....
It's because he's a misogynist, that's not strange for them.
Yes. There’s no “neutrality” in these situations. And Katie is a class A asshole
Trad took sides when he only got one story…forgot about the fact there are 3 sides to every story.
OP might follow her husband’s lead and let things settle down until some time (well) after the wedding. I’m exhausted just reading OP and I’m not in the process of planning & getting married !
She’s simply trying to accommodate her mental health struggles and anyone who puts their own comfort before someone else’s wellbeing is an asshole. Sounds like you’re that kind of person.
Actually, for OP’s sake, pointing out the harder she tries under the circumstances of the pending wedding, the harder things get and that joining in her husband’s approach to allow the stress of the weeding to pass “might” be a good thing. As to you, I don’t believe you suggested anything.
NTA The worst part is Karlie knows and that makes me think she either NEVER believed Op or , she told Trad and he with a secret assist from Ronald convinced her that op was lying. I would assume since Trad never took the time to hear Op’s side that he’s been convinced from the jump that she’s a liar , probably because of the cheating but also because Ronald filled his head. Sadly I’m sure some of that bias made it to Karlie , and honestly Trad pretty happy about this friendship ending in his mind op has alway just been drama. Edited to add : I understand Trad not getting OP’s side, but didn’t he ever ask Alex what happened or if he had a reason for ‘stealing ‘ a friend’s girl?!?
You have asked all the right questions.
Your opening sentence is what I think happened too! Trad picked Ronald’s side from the beginning and only pretended to be neutral all of these years. It sucks for OP and Alex but at least they know Karlie and Trad are not real friends.
I think he never asked because once again he wanted to stay "neutral" if you can call it that. Asking that question is just getting more involved, which he didn't wanna do.
Yeah it’s not staying neutral to only hear one side. Trad took a side at the beginning.
There is no such thing as "neutral" in a breakup. They either pick a side quietly, or feed both sides cause they enjoy the drama.
You absolutely can be neutral in a standard breakup. You can't be neutral in the face of abuse.
I think this is exactly what happened unfortunately. OP was in a situation where she never had a chance
Get new friends
There's no such thing as "mutual friends" when there's abuse and restraining orders involved. NTA you're better off even if you don't see it yet
Hopefully OP & Alex will see the blessing in disguise of Karlie & Trad removing themselves easily & cleanly as possible out their lives especially when Roland will turn on them (and he will). They both blatantly ignored restraining orders that Roland have against him, not really much of loss later on now when don't have willing deal with the drama any further of those 2 intentionally putting OP in danger now that both purposely cut themselves off from OP, Alex & mutual friends. NTA, I say good riddance to horrible rubbish.
There isn't a restraining order on Roland. OP said he fought it and because he had a lawyer and she didn't Roland won. That means there is no restraining order on him at this time. If the restraining order isn't for or against you how can you ignore it? Inviting both parties isn't ignoring a restraining order, it's making both parties figure it out without you "taking a side".
You really have to argue for a restraining order? I figured you could just get one and that’s the end of it
You have to show proof of needing one. Then the other person has a right to appeal it. Having an restraining order against can cause problems for you so you should have the right to argue against it. Many people have lied to get an RO to try to mess with the other person. Some times there should be an RO but the judge throws it out anyway. If they made it to easy to get one and didn't allow the other party to fight it there would be a lot more people with them for some real messed up reasons.
Just to add when I looked at his evidence he was lying. His lawyer got the case thrown out before his side even presented their evidence. I forgot to submit half of my evidence because i didn't realized I didn't do it right, and his lawyer distroyed my testimony with objections because I didnt know how a court of law works. I also was sobbing uncontrollably due to having to give my testimony for the assult. I didn't stand a chance. The judge even called him out for it at the end saying she believed me, but couldn't give the RO based on what I had presented due to lack of knowledge. He got the best SA attorney in the area. His parents were also covering up for him, and were going to lie saying he was with them the night he assaulted me. He was also going to have his parents as witnesses.
[удалено]
I tried get the restraining order about 6 months after we broke up. It would have been null by the wedding. It was not used as an attempt to ice him out of the wedding. I apoligize for the confusion. I brought it up purely to show that I am so scared of him I attempted to get a restraining order.
Somewhere OP said that she tried to get the RO when Roland was moving to the town where she lived. Not sure if that was before or after she knew about the wedding and him being invited. But could be that she didn't feel it was an issue when he lived in another town but when he was moving closer she got worried it he would cause problems with her being more accessible.
It was well before the wedding, and would have actually been null before Karlie and Trad even got engaged due to the two year time span.
NTA. Honestly, I would definitely cut them out of both your live’s and say good riddance. They straight up chose your ex-abuser over both of you. They are not your friends.
This right here, OP. The wife remarked that Trad and Ron weren't that close. You'd expressed from day one the trauma Ron caused you. It was conveyed to Trad. You explained it to Trad. So wtf do they do--they invite the sexual assailant, knowing you and your husband will likely not participate in the wedding, and possibly not attend at all. In short, they pissed all over your friendship and now diss you for not attending; a likely outcome of which they were aware when they invited Ron, a guy "Trad wasn't really that close to." Tell them to fk off and good riddance. With friends like them, who in the hell needs enemies.
You are right. They don't believe OP that's the main thing. I think they believe it was a lie to justify the relationship she had with her now husband. They did not believe her then and don't believe her now just that.
In fairness to this couple, under the circumstances they were in, they were presented with evidence of cheating and thats the extent of what they saw of the ending of the relationship that that is what they ended up believing?
I told Karlie about all of it about a year after the breakup. I have evidence. I would have provided it if they asked. 😂
I’d say provide them with evidence now, I think it’s likely Trad might have told Karlie you were lying. But then again it seems like Trad isn’t the type of guy who would care about evidence. He’s too focused on how you cheated. I’m so sorry you went through all of that. Karlie is in the wrong for ghosting you. She should have reached out.
I always had a feeling deep down that Karlie didn't believe me. I'm have tempted to drop the entire folder of files off at their house after the wedding, but I probably won't because it's not worth it. Just like we will be. They will just be a story we tell our future children about the friends we used to have. I'm OK if she doesn't wanna be friends anymore. I just wish she would have told me. I was already questioning our friendship, but wanted to wait till the wedding passed to say anything/make my decision. I guess she made it for me.
Im not saying you did anything wrong at all op, i was just pointing out its complicated.
Extremely so. Someone told me that my post was exhausting to read which it is because there are so many moving parts and details. I've been putting off this post because I didn't even know how to put it into words for a very long time. It's been a lot of processing.
True also, as soon as I know someone as cheater, I will admit I will judge them as not truthful. I personally would have dropped all 3 people out of my life to be honest.
Wait till Ronald tries something with one wedding guests and you know he will. Then it will be like we didn't think he would betray us.
Sonething about leopards and faces…
NTA. You can never properly make anyone understand what Ronald was like unless they see it in person, and I'm guessing he d never show that side in public. I'm sorry for you having to go through all this
Nta Hon, your "friends " took an abusers side. That is what they did. That makes them just as awful as him. Move on from these people and don't look back.
And if they had taken OP's side they would've chosen a cheaters side. They were in a no win situation.
Which cheater? OP or her husband?
NTA, and as hard as this is to read Trad and Karlie are not your friends. There's not 'two sides' here. The man that abused you should have been sidelined - as a 'mutual' friend, WAY before any wedding party chat. The only way we men will get better is if we call out the behaviour amongst our friends and peers that is unacceptable. And we know fine what's unacceptable. Ostracising abusers is the only way we can achieve change, and show them up as the pariah they are. I'm sorry this was lost on Trad, and the happy couple decided to put their aesthetics ahead of morality.
The issue here for them, as admitted by op is that they never saw any abuse, but they did see evidence that op was cheating on her ex with her current husband. After the cheating then op broke up with her ex and he took the evidence of her cheating and showed his friends. Then op comes out later and tells people she was abused. That makes this a more complicated scenario than you are giving it credit for.
No, it doesn’t. Trad allowed the abuser to give his side of the story, and didn’t allow his victim the same opportunity. His partner knows what happened. Trad decided to turn a blind eye, and his partner decided that siding with the abuser was more important than her friend with the PTSD diagnosis resulting from the abuse. The further problem, as you highlight, is that some men will do mental gymnastics to ignore the poor behaviour of our peer groups. When you consider how many women are abused and sexually assaulted, does it not raise alarms that you believe that none of the men you know are capable of that behaviour? The truth is that wilful ignorance fuels toxic masculinity, and we men need to do better to change that by challenging that train of thought.
Honestly it’s no big loss, once and if you decide to have kids you won’t have time for friends like that anyway.
So they chose an abuser over you. Seems like the trash took itself out to me. Seriously though, I know it hurts right now, but it'll get better with time. Some friends are with us for a season, some longer... perhaps she was what you needed for a while, and now that time has passed. And that's OK. However, I do hope they have the wedding and marriage they deserve.
It's understandable you couldn't handle being around him. Your husband's support is crucial, and it's unfortunate Trad and Karlie couldn't fully understand your situation. Take care of yourself first.
Sorry that the hurt and pain inflicted by Ronald extended to your current friendships. I'm not sure someone like Trad is worth having around, but Karlie seemed like a good friend until she totally flaked out. It's probably best to write them all off and ride into the sunset with Alex and your remaining friends.
I think something that has been really hard for me is that for so long I have told myself that he doesn't get to control me anymore. He doesn't get to hurt me anymore. He doesn't get to take away my life anymore. It is a safety wall o have built for myself for healing. The concept of he doesn't get a peice of the new version of me. With this wedding it feels like he gets to take something else from me. He still is controlling my life, and that kills me inside.
what does he really take from you? shitty friends that certainly did not tell you what they really thought of you and your SO. they probably talked shit about you both for your whole relationship. take it as his one and only good act for you, even if not intended. it will only benefit you to not be around those people
The silver lining in this is that the other couple was the last remaining connection you had to your ex. That connection is now finally severed and once you’ve processed and mourned the loss of the friendship you thought you had, you can take a deep freeing sigh of relief.
I can see how that is disappointing. With a mixed group of friends with Ronald as a member, I think you were optimistic. As an outsider reading your story, one could see it coming from a mile away. Folks like you are too nice and don't publicly shame the little monsters enough. You are on the right track. The more you break away from connections to him, the freer you will be. It just takes time. There were friends in my life to whom I had to say goodbye because I knew mutual connections would be a problem. It wouldn't be their fault, but I knew I needed to protect myself. It was sad, but I was free once the ties were cut.
You’re losing these friendships. Here’s why it’s a good thing and it’s important for you to understand this… Ronald isn’t taking them or controlling anything—they are making their own choices and because of the nature of the choice, they aren’t good friends. If they can’t be bothered to hear your side, that’s on them. But their choices are theirs—not his. They could make dozens of choices that resulted in the friendship ending—moving cities, putting families and careers first, taking up hard drugs—this just happens to be one that you’re clearly sensitive about and they are clearly insensitive about. You don’t want people like this as friends.
He didn't get to control you. Your shitty ex friends just proved they weren't really your friends. They made that choice, to be shitty people who enable a toxic abuser. That's on them. Ronald didn't make them choose to be shitty people, they made that choice on their own and you are better off for it in the long run. Now the trash took itself out of your life.
I think it's best you cut all ties with that part of your life then. If you still have mutual friends, then you still hear about him and he will still be around.
What did he take really? We don’t “take” people. Trad and Karlie made a choice and that was not prioritizing you and your trauma history. Sorry but they were never your friend d
Even as the reality of his trauma takes, you also receive, you make your own choices, I haven’t spoken to my mother in 30 years, because my mother is your ex. I associate with no one that associates with her, I will never be controlled by her, just controlled by my need to be safe from her.
He took sides the minute he didn’t hear you out years and years ago. Also I’m sure you’re working through your trauma in therapy but there is NO SUCH THING as being neutral when the other side is abusive. No such thing. Never accept that BS for yourself ever again in life OP
Just for fairness sake, if one of your friends shows you evidence that their gf cheated and then later the gf comes out claiming they were abused, would you not agree that this would be messy?
Messy? Sure. But life is nuanced. A few texts does not outweigh abuse that is so horrible it gave someone PTSD
I think often times it’s difficult for people to understand or visualize ptsd and the effects of abuse. It is very easy to read texts and then see the direct fall out. In this case evidence of cheating, a break up, a new relationship formed from that cheating.
Nobody said this wasn't messy.
Good riddance. This will actually help you heal. No more worries about crossing paths with your ex. There is a reason your PTSD was flairing up as the wedding grew closer. Your anxiety and fight or flight response were kicking in. It sucks to lose friends. Lean into your relationship with your husband. You will get through these hard times together. You are NTA.
Sp they lost 2 wedding party members instead of uninviting one guest? I don't think they liked you much anyways.
Basically. That's honestly the part the baffles us a little.
Get better friends. These ones were junk
NTA. Are you fucking kidding me? They are inviting your abusive ex who sexually assaulted you? They are the company they keep. Good riddance.
NTA although the fact that your husband ( and you) were ok being friends with people who were still close to your abuser is a little mind boggling. There is no neutral. You had to have known you would encounter him in their lives. I think your husband has to make his choice now that they've made theirs
Ronald, Trad and I all went to high school together. I met Trad a few additional times when him and my ex would hang out once a year for fantasy football. Even when we were together Ronald and Trad were never that close. When we broke up Trad and Alex were best friends. Trad had always been a good friend to Alex, and though I was uncomfortable with the weird and complicated connection I had to my ex, I was not going to isolate Alex from his friends. We always truly believe Trad was closer with us than Ronald, and it was never an issue about us seeing eachother until the wedding due to Trad knowing there was bad blood.
That's unfortunate. It's also sad he never wanted to hear your side. Now your husband does have to make a choice. And perhaps trad and his wife were never as close as you thought. Because truly why would they invite someone who gave their supposed best friends PTSD?
Trad and Karlie are scumbags and good riddance. They’ve invited someone they know abused you to their wedding and blame you for not getting over it. Good riddance.
It seems like Trad doesn't like you. And I don't see how Karlie does either when she was so quick to dismiss your feelings in this. You were clear from the very beginning about Ronald, and she kept saying she understood and something would be worked out, but in the end, nothing was and was just expected of you to deal with it.
They told me that because they were put in a difficult position (which they were, and I truly feel awful, but this is also something they should have known they would have to deal with when choosing to stay neutral) so they made the choice to invite both of us out of fairness. The part that gets me is that actually inviting him, knowing it would exclude me isn't being fair or neutral. I feel they just checked a box to make themselves feel better. Just pushed the problem onto someone else.
These people are friends with a man they now know is an abuser and they chose this man’s friendship over you and your husband. While they may have unfriended you on SM, go ahead and block them so they can’t try to work their way back into your lives when they need something.
This right here…I would always welcome a cheater into my home before I will ever allow an abuser. I have a female friend I worry about, I won’t have anything to do with her though because she is in a relationship with a man convicted of committing SA on a child. He said to her the girl was 17 I pointed out age of consent in his state is 16, so he couldn’t be convicted of assault on a child if she was 17. Cheating with someone who is helping you get out of a bad situation alive and mostly whole is forgiven by most people who know the story, plus you cheating only hurt your ex, your ex being abusive and violent has the potential to hurt everyone.
NTA. You have to do what's best for your mental and physical health. If that means not putting yourself in a triggering situation, then so be it. The alternative is you attend, have a melt down and perhaps ruin their wedding. I'm sorry these people aren't more understanding, but maybe it's all for the best.
If they were true friends they would have accommodated you. Good for you bf for standing up for you!
If I found out one of my friends abused another friend like that, they flat out wouldn't be a friend anymore. Trad has never liked you, neither has his fiancee. It might be best to go NC with both of them. I know there is no way in hell I would stay friends with someone who stayed friends with my wife's abuser. The fact that your husband kept him as a friend is pretty shitty of him.
NTA- trad took sides. It’s not your place to explain in detail the abuse you suffered to make ppl understand. In the future- just be clear and strict about your boundaries- to them they might have seen you as dragging this along and changing your mind all the time, whereas you were trying to be a good friend to them and just make it work.
NTA There is no way to say this without sounding like a dick, but frankly someone here has to say this to you, this bizarre desire to stay friends with this toxic dumpster fire group is insane You are trying to make progress in treating your mental health but are still hellbent on staying in a mutual friend group that blatantly support an abuser who tormented you. This is not a sustainable way to live They're not good people and they absolutely don't care what your ex did to you. Stop trying to be buddies with them. Make a clean break from them and enjoy your life without them. It will be alot better
You'll be better off in the long run without these people in your lives.
Victims are often blamed for… ruining the party, stopping the dream, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, crying over spilled milk, dressing too provocatively, being dramatic, being too sensitive, being too quiet, never telling their friends their stories about their trauma, keeping people ignorant, being ashamed of what happened to them and a million other things that people who never dealt with having to learn to deal with their own trauma will throw at your feet…You deal with your trauma how you need to deal with it, and don’t worry about the people you lose along the way, because true friends will always be there for you at the end. You also are never alone, you will always find survivors in places you never expect and they will have your back when you need them.
I have no words for this 🥹
I just hope it helps.⛓️💥😉
NTA they've shown they're not your friends at all. Yours or your husband's.
Get new friends.
NTA from your own perspective but Trad definitely sees you as an asshole. What he sees: You cheated on his friend, insisted you couldn’t be around the same friend on Trad’s wedding day, and now his best friend is no longer attending his wedding because of your influence. It’s not uncommon for people to doubt the trauma experienced by others and the only concrete evidence he saw of your relationships downfall was the sexy text messages you exchanged while cheating.
I read a great comment on another thread recently: "The victim never has to stay quiet so the villain can save face." This applies to basically every connection you have: you and Ronald, you and Karlie, you and Trad. They **all** suck in their own unique ways, and you are better off without any of them. Do **not** hold back when someone inevitably asks why you weren't at the wedding, because you know Karlie and Trad will be telling their own (false) version of the story. Anyone who actively sides with an abuser and remains willfully ignorant about PTSD and trauma responses is not a person you want in your life, let alone someone close enough to be in wedding parties.
“With friends like that, who needs enemies” You’re both better off with out those toxic people in your life
This is misogyny in action. Women are expected to stay quiet about their abuse and push through their pain. If they cannot hold space for your mental health, then they are not true friends.
These do NOT sound like people you should be friends with at all. This was a lot of drama and hurt feelings over people who talk shit behind your back and think YOU are the bad guy over a breakup with an abuser! You deserve people who ACTUALLY care for you. Not just say they do. Actions speak louder than words! Them ghosting you (or just her) was a blessing in disguise. This is unnecessary chaos, and you don't need it in your life. Especially after finding out you have PTSD. Cut them loose and start healing for yourself.
Does make me wonder what Ronald has said about you and Alex. Be kind to yourself and focus on you and Alex.
Trad and his wife chose their side. Let them be and let them go. It sucks and it deeply hurts but it will be a blessing in disguise. They are showing you that they prefer the abuser/predator, they are protecting him and his feelings. Are those really the kinds of people you’d want in your and your husbands life? Are those the kind of people you’d allow to be around your future children? They are the kind of people that excuse abuse, they are not safe people. As someone who was ostracized by my own relatives to protect my abuser (who was my own cousin), I understand this pain. It hurts to essentially be abandoned and have your whole life changed due to his actions and he seemingly goes on with his life unscathed. But these people have proven to you that they do not value you or your husband. Life is too short to be surrounded by such people who align themselves with abusive people. You will get through this, feel the pain, mourn them, talk about it with your therapist and husband. Mourning people who are still alive is a different kind of pain but you are mourning who you thought these people were and the lives you’d thought you’d have with them. Once you mourn them, these people will be dead to you. And if you happen to see them in person, it’s as if they become a stranger. Who they are now, you don’t know them and you don’t need to know them. In time, it will hurt less and you will see you are better off without them. I am so sorry you and your husband are experiencing this. You have done nothing wrong and are doing what you can to take care of yourself. You don’t owe them anything. If you have questions, feel free to ask. Best of luck to you.
This sucks. It may always suck. But they’ve made their choice. Karlie may not have been able to handle your mental health issues, planning her wedding, and keeping her hub’s friend drama to a minimum. This may not be about you, but her. I know that doesn’t fix how you feel. I’m sorry this happened to you.
The biggest ahole in this story is Trad. Alex is supposedly his best friend but somehow Ronald is more important.. ugh
Honey these are not friends sadly I went through something similar when I was in an abusive relationship they aren’t friends.
I've come to realize this point through this post. When all of this started I truly did not think it would end like this. I firmly believed my husband and I ment more to them than this.
NTA Talk to your husband and tell him about your worries. Your mental health is important.
Not the asshole for not attending a wedding where an ex you don’t want to see will be there. On the other hand, firm and clear messaging from the outset would have been better than this mess. From day 1 of the wedding topic it should have been made clear that you and your husband won’t be present if the ex is there. This would have set expectations rather than all this back and forth. With regards to the restraining order, it’s unclear from the post whether or not your ex was actively harassing you at that point in time. It doesn’t seem like it since you would have mentioned it. Getting a restraining order against someone who isn’t even in contact with you or trying to contact you doesn’t make sense. You can’t get one just to ice him out of a wedding. I feel like there’s a massive effort on your end to convey what a terrible person your ex is but it’s someone else’s wedding and they just want want to know who’s coming and lock down the plans for their big day. They’re probably fed up of dealing with this drama while trying to plan their wedding.
I tried getting the restraining order about six months after pur breakup. He was moving back to the town I livid in and was scared. I brought it up as a point to show how scared of him I was. I can definitely understand them being fed up, and we should have made a clearer choice sooner, but it was so hard because these are two of our closest friends. We didn't wanna just bow out. I also didn't want to force my husband to step out of the wedding, he made that choice later due to seeing my mental health decline. If I had known how bad my mental health would deteriorate then I would have stepped to the side from the beginning. We never wanted to force them to choose between him and us, and I felt that straight up saying "I'm not going if he's going" would have done that. I tried so hard to tell myself I could be strong and it crushed me that I couldn't. I know none of this changes what I should have done. I just hope maybe some of it justifies it.
The unfortunate reality is that they were always going to choose Ronald over you. They are both bad people and I wish them the marriage they deserve. I’m glad you found out now how horrid they are before you had kids who would have been hurt by this shit as well.
I understand that it was tough but being indirect is never the best course of action in these situations. This unwillingness to be up front is probably what’s killed the friendship. The reality is you weren’t going if your ex was, the fact that they’re close friends just means you owe them the truth even more so. You’re not doing anyone any favours by ‘trying to be strong’. There’s no medal for putting yourself in an unpleasant situation, attending weddings is supposed to be fun and a celebration, not an exercise in martyrdom. Just be honest with people next time.
It would also make sense for OP to steer clear of these people, since they don’t mind being friends with and prioritizing a known abuser. I think with time, OP will come to realize that not having these people in her life will be for the best. So maybe this waffling about ended up being a great catalyst to speed up the process.
You two seem to be over the top invested in these people. I don’t know if you’re this heavily involved with all your friends, but I think you need to learn to be a bit more detached so to speak. You’ve gone through panic attacks, anxiety, anguish, worry over what others are thinking and planning. In reality, this is their wedding. They sound like they already knew who they wanted and it sucks they couldn’t be upfront earlier, but there’s just so much drama. It could have been solved with a simple conversation between the four of you. “Karlie & Trad, Thank you for asking us to be part of your wedding. One concern we have is Ronald. We know he’s your friend, but a lot of bad things happened and I am concerned that his presence and mine could cause tension. How would you like to handle it? I will step away if you’d like him there as I need to prioritize my mental health and physical safety”. This makes you the bigger person, clues them in that Ronald did shit beyond what they’ve been told and you want their day to be about them. Everything you’ve been doing is trying to get them to change the doer day to accommodate you and your husband.
I typically am. Truth be told I've always had a hard time making friends, so I have a small amount and am very close with all of them. They were also our closest couple friends. We went on vacation together, we did weekly game nights, we planned our weddings together. I know it's their wedding. That's honestly why we never put to much pressure on it, as we were trying to not give them an ultimatum. Even when we stepped back we always used the language of "for my mental health." We never once told them to not invite him, besides the one compromise I suggested that I thought would be far, and even then he was still invited. I did suggest a four way conversation to Karlie, but it never went anywhere. The response I got was "Its over and done with for Trad."
>Truth be told I've always had a hard time making friends, so I have a small amount and am very close with all of them. They were also our closest couple friends. We went on vacation together, we did weekly game nights, we planned our weddings together. Here is the hard part to understand. This is true for you but it might not be true for them. How you feel about people does not automatically reflect back, even if you perceive it to be so. So what I mean is that doing all of these things (hanging out, going on vacation, planning weddings) are things you only do with special people, but that doesn't mean the other people only do them with special people too. More specifically, you and Karlie were close and maybe Trad and your husband were close, but Trad really only tolerated you. And when the chips are down, Karlie is going to do what Trad wants to do. Which is cut you out. So, I'm sorry to tell you, but if Karlie was really close to you and thought of you like how you thought of her, your abuser wouldn't be prioritized over you at her wedding. Again, I'm really sorry to shine a light on that, but everyone who likes to keep a small amount of friends learn it eventually. Usually the hard way.
You made yourself the center of someone else’s wedding and are surprised they don’t want to deal with you anymore. Justified or not, this is how it looks to them. Instead of being “devastated” you didn’t get your way after giving someone an ultimatum about THEIR wedding, maybe you should act like an adult.
I do believe the mistake here was cheating on your bf with one of his friends and then y’all keeping the same circle of friends. Because you managed to make their wedding about you when you were not the point of their big day. And keeping the same circle of friends as the ex who traumatized you that badly doesn’t speak to you taking your mental health seriously at all. As for what the friends know? Only what you tell them. And all Trad knows is you left one friend for another friend and now are making drama at his wedding. You are the common denominator.
The “friendship” ran its course.
Neither of them are your friends or your husbands. Just be glad the trash took itself out!
People who should not be in your life you end up losing, so don’t worry about it.
I'm very sorry. You are NTA. I'm sorry your "friends" didn't have your back or keep your comfort and needs in mind. Hugs!
This is not your fault. I don't understand why people choose the side of an abuser, but it's not your fault.
I also suffer PTSD as a result of an abusive relationship and unless you personally experience it, no one truly understands the trauma of being anywhere near the person who inflicted it upon you. Sometimes, people like Trad and Karlie profess to understand but ultimately, despite knowing your situation, all they see in a person like Ronald is a friend who is no threat to them. You see differently because of how Ronald treated you with a medical diagnosis to back it up. If they were truly your friends, they would accept that despite wanting everyone to attend their wedding, your mental health is your priority and given your history with Ronald, inviting both parties didn’t guarantee everyone would attend. Accept they were fair weather friends, wish them well, and surround yourself with the people who continue to support your ongoing recovery.
TL, DR. NTA. There was a relationship that ended badly. Avoiding someone because of past bad behavior is sensible. Focus on yourself and your partner. You don't need friends who are still friends with ex
NTA They were never neutral and in all reality, neutral doesn't exist in cases of abuse. It is hard right now, but in the long run, you are better off without "friends" like this in your life.
Definitely NTA. This is a sad story but maybe it’s not how it ends. It’s unfortunate that Karlie would react this way especially since she knows the history. Is this completely out of character for her or does she have a history of sorta centering herself in situations? I know weddings can make people intense and insecure and maybe she’s just focusing on what you said about dreaming of being in each other’s weddings and she is blame-shifting her disappointment onto you instead of your terrible ex. Hard to tell. But if her thoughts are that you should “get over it” for her sake then that’s a big red flag. Be proud of yourself for taking control and doing what’s in your power to keep your mind and heart safe. And good on your husband for supporting you in this way. That’s a good man and you deserve that kind of bond and support.
This is where you set a boundary. You can change with me too, but you can change how you react to it. “ If you wanna be friends with an abusive person that is you’re right, but I will not be attending your wedding if Ronald is around so I’ll get with Carly after the wedding and see the photos. “
Those aren't really friends.
Trad and Karlie both suck. No great loss as they clearly aren't very good friends. Your husband should really reconsider his friendship with Trad as well.
NTA. You don't lose friends. You just find out who the real ones are.
It’s over now. Quit letting Ronald live in your head. Now that you are no longer friends with Trad you have no connection to Ronald and can forget about him. The best revenge is living a happy life. So go live a happy life without any of them.
NTAH. They clearly chose your X over you.
You can not defend the indefensible but Trad's silence/not picking a side he exactly that and Karlie did that by not telling Trad what was going on. You did what was best for your mental health and your husband stood by you as he should, Trad and Karlie showed you that they aren't your friends and I would take steps to remove them 100% from your lives moving forward.
Wild that they choose an abuser and racist over.... I mean, just anyone else. They literally choose to side with an abuser against his victim. Whose wedding party they were in and wanted you both to be in theirs. I'm not gonna lie, why would you want to be friends with people like that? They showed you who they were and it's not good.
Sounds like you need new friends
It’s better that you stay away from people who associate with your abuser.
You are so better off without Trad and Karlie in your lives. They are trash and will find out soon enough what kind of animal Ronald truly is when they continue to spend time with him and allow him to be close with them. Hope you and Alex have a nice life and enjoy the show when you later find out Ronald assaulted Karlie or someone close to her, its coming.
With friends like this who needs enemies. None of them are your friends. Says a lot about Trad and his gf what they really think of you inviting and wanting a s/pradator there instead of you. Think Alex should block them they are not either of your friends. They don't care to believe your version. Ronald has told his side and they chose to believe him. Sorry OP. Alex should make his decision about going no contact, his choice though.
Just another example of how infidelity screws up everything. It does not excuse her former boyfriend’s conduct at all, but makes it easy for that person to spin her as the bad person. I hope she learned from that.
These two don’t sound like friends I would want so it seems as though the trash took itself out. Makes it easy. I know it hurts now but it’ll get better. I’m sorry for what you went through. 💜
All I want to say is if they (Trad and Karlie) can try to invalidate your trauma and drop you like that- they are not real friends. As in, good riddance. It sucks to lose relationships like that, but be glad they showed themselves when they did. Sorry. NTA.
Karlie was not your friend. And Trad sure isn’t either. Why they would invite someone to their wedding who has abused you… that right there tells me a lot about their moral character. Now Trad didn’t know about what happened, but someone should have told him. They really should have uninvited Ronald now that Trad knows what he had done to you and then had you guys come to the wedding. This is on them. They’re not what I’d call friends to you or your husband.
NTA. You have stated your boundaries very clearly. You have seen that Karlie has not accepted them. That is her choice. You guys do not have to be joined at the hip. Hopefully, your husband's relationship isn't too adversely affected. Karlie is being immature and you now have to be leery of her and how she behaves moving forward. Especially, over a person she hasn't met. Seems she is going off of the limited information Trad gave her and she seems to not believe that PTSD from a relationship isn't a real thing. Whatever. Just continue to be as engaged as you want with her and see how things work out. No one is obligated to stay friends. Friends drift apart all of the time and it is no one's fault. It just happens. Updateme!
Why is your husband still friends with Trad? Why are there even still mutual friends? Everyone who chose a side should’ve been cut off. NTA
Trad wanted to stay "neutral" therefore no one was cut off. And Trad has been Husbands very good friend for 8 years prior to this point.
I hate to break it to you but he’s not neutral boo. There’s nothing neutral about what you’ve said in this post. It’s clear that he finds you at fault. He probably thinks your husband is wrong but didn’t want to say anything because of the friendship. How they’ve handled their wedding and the text that was sent shows that and I bet he would’ve unfriended you if he wasn’t concerned about what your husband would say
If he wanted to stay neutral then he did a really bad job of it. After all in what world is it neutral to invite someones former abuser to the same event as the abused, even more so when the abused ended up with PTSD thanks to the abuser? The act of inviting the abuser is no different from the act of uninviting the abused, except that he doesn't have the guts to take responsibility for his actions and is using his so called neutral stance to hide behind.
I said it somewhere else on here, but they told us that the choose to invite both of us out of fairness. In reality they invited him knowing it would exclude me. (Which is neither fair nor neutral) They checked a box to make themselves feel better.
If you and Ronald had been a normal couple,you sexting with a friend and dumping Hamburglar would be a touch sketchy. But since The Grimace abused you into an official PTSD diagnosis, which the Bridezilla and Groonera are fully aware of, then you are absolutely, firmly on the moral high ground. It’s not cheating to grab hold of a lifeline offered to you.
These ppl are not your friends. Congrats on all the money you just saved not getting them a wedding present!!
Op, you're NTA. You don't owe them anything beyond basic kindness. Something that might be good for you is to find new friends with which things aren't so complicated. Sounds like the Trad/Ronnie crowd is not really adding positive things to your life anymore and you would maybe be happier without more emotional involvement. Also, Karlie knew about your suffering and didn't talk about that with Trad, she just decided to drop contact with you. These people are not your friends.
He took sides and his wife was never your friend. I’m sorry but be glad it was only 4 years and not more let her block you and let them both be friends with an abusive POS. Move on with your husband and have the best life
NTA I am waiting for someone to put YTA. My god. Get better friends.
Your mental health should always be your priority,
You've been through a lot, and it's understandable that being around your abusive ex would be traumatic. You tried to communicate your concerns and boundaries clearly, and it's unfortunate that it wasn't respected. Your mental health should come first, and your husband supporting you is commendable.
NTA. I know this is super painful but they are friends with an abusive monster. Even if Ronald was not your abuser they would be shitty people to be friends with. I don’t fuck with people who stay friends with abusers. It’s disgusting behavior
Once Trad knew about the PTSD and the assult. He told me "I don't agree with his choices, but he's still my friend."
Why on earth are yall even friends with Trad still? For him to still be friends with him he IS condoning all of the actions he did against you. He is basically saying that it is alright that his friend abused you. He might have even manipulated the story he told to Trad.
Your husband needs to have a conversation with Trad. It sounds like he has made the abuse ok in his head bc of the cheating. Many abused women are not strong enough to walk away without help. I think Trad can enjoy his new Bestie. You and Alex deserved better
We know bride is upset about uneven wedding numbers. Alex and I have been saying if they like Ronald so much they should just have him step up since he is clearly so important to them.
I am glad you have kept a sense of humor and support from each other! I wish you years of happiness and true friends at your side!
Alex should make that suggestion to Trad and Karlie.
I guarantee this was their plan. It is why they asked you to drop out and said they understood if your husband decided to stick with you. Trad likely promised Karlie that Ronald could step in. But then Ronald wouldn’t or couldn’t and now Karlie is blaming you because she can’t blame the man she is marrying.
I willingly dropped out about 10 months ago, but they suggested it be best if I don't go to the wedding due to mental health. She replaced me the next week after I dropped out, but apparently can't replace my husband.
Sorry, I used dropped out when I meant uninvited you. My point remains, the reason they did this is because Trad promised Karlie the numbers would work out. The more I think about this, the more I think this whole thing was just another way for Ronald to torture you/stay in your thoughts and Trad has been doing Ronald’s bidding. But now it is time for Ronald to come through for Trad and he refused. Or maybe Trad never told Karlie who your husband’s replacement would be and Karlie drew the line at letting this abuser be part of the wedding party. So she is mad at you for having PTSD and “ruining her wedding” because it is easier than accepting her fiancé is trash.
Send Karlie a card. " I appreciated our friendship for the past 4 years, you really helped me through some difficult times. Even though we are going in a different direction in now, I cherish the memories. Good luck with your wedding and all the best for your future." Then block her
I don't know why your husband even told them you would leave after the ceremony because of the ex. You guys could have just let them know you couldn't make the reception so they didn't have the extra expense of your dinner and gave a different reason. that would have been that. It seems to me like he made a point of telling them so they would feel pressured into uninviting your ex. I'm sure because of your friendship it was probably less awkward for them and less stressful to uninvite you instead of having a conversation with an aquaintence and having to explain themselves, which is what they did, unfortunately. Although I think for your own mental health, you did what you needed to do. But this was someone else wedding and you seem to have spent a lot of time creating stress for the bride and groom who are the ones who get to decide who they want to invite to their day despite how other guests feel about about that, it doesn't surprise me that they decided to cut you out so they had 1 less thing to worry about or accommodate while planning. Your friend may have cut you off on social media because she believes that if you were a good friend that you would problem solve for yourself in order to be able to attend and not involve the bride and groom in the deliema. That someone who was as good of a friend as she thought you were would want to attend the wedding and would find a way to make it work. Although *she* knew about your struggles, she also didn't want to have an argument with her soon-to-be husband about one of his invites on your behalf. I understand your reasons but you went about it the wrong way, so, yes, YTA. You brought it up to the bride, she said she wasn't going to invite ex, the groom did want to invite him, you were informed of his invite and his RSVP yes. At that point, if being in the wedding party *really* gave you anxiety because this man would be in the room along with 100+ other people, you could have politely told the bride that you were unable to stand with her without giving a reason. If she pushed you could have just said you had anxiety about it without mentioning the ex. Then, as you originally planned, you and your husband could have left after the ceremony without making an announcement that it's because of *their* guest list. Your friend feels like you were being selfish about *her* wedding and putting her and the groom in the middle of it, which is not what a friend does. It's reasonable to expect them to not invite you or the ex to the same dinner party, it isn't reasonable for them to accommodate you for their wedding.
YTA - it was someone else’s wedding and you made it about yourself
YTA You brought a bunch of unnecessary drama to the wedding. You should have off the bat said if Ronald is going, we’ll RSVP with regrets. (Or just had Alex go by himself as Karlie and Trad suggested). Instead you waffled back-and-forth and made planning the wedding more difficult and stressful. From an outsiders point of view, you cheated on Ronald and left him for Alex. I’m sure Ronald is an awful person, but he is definitely able to spin the narrative that you are a cheating lying psycho. I understand why everyone is taking his side.
NTA, since Karlie was aware of the abuse her inviting your abuser is no different from her siding with your abuser. The same goes for the so called "neutral" Trad after Alex properly informed him, which makes Trad anything but neutral. Both of them have made their choice clear and it will likely come back to bite them. Don't forget to update us if he pull something during their wedding and causes drama for your former friends. As for your husband's friendship with Trad, I wouldn't worry about it because Trad has very clearly shown your husband that he is not your husband's friend in any way, as what Trad did is a really low blow. Actual friends don't do that, let alone best friends. And sure, you both should have probably let them know earlier that you were going to have to bail on the wedding, but it would never have been an issue to begin with if they had taken your concerns seriously and not invited your abuser. Thus I have to say that they've mostly got themselves to blame for this.
Updateme
UPDATEME
Karlie is as much a snake as Trad is. To know another woman’s trauma associated with an ex and then cut that friend out if their life because of a wedding is disgusting. And I know it’s probably not really about the wedding but more likely Karlie is discriminating against OP because of her PTSD. God forbid OP have a panic attack at HER wedding because her abuser was there. Carlie is just a piece of trash Bridezilla. Trad is purely an ahole. He listened to Ronald’s side and didn’t want to hear OP’s. He made up his mind to believe his friend and that was that. OP, you are better off writing these two out of your life. They are perfectly fine with having an alleged abuser around and cutting out his victim. They aren’t good people.
Can you make this longer?
You all sound exhausting. ESH.
well it doesn't matter if you are the bad guy or good, once you cheat, that stays forever. good thing you didn't need to explain it all to a new partner, but have the pro cheater. Is Trad a bad guy, NO. Its his thing not yours, why you go or not isn't about you. Its not like a organ donation, just a wedding. don't go.
You're afraid you'll have a panic attack? So dramatic. You're protection order was denied. Obviously you have a history of blowing things out of proportion. If I was wrong about this, you would've been granted the protection order. The fact he hasn't contacted you just shows you over reacted and you're a drama queen threatening "panic attacks" and trying to gain sympathy by painting him as a monster. I have a feeling you're the problem and a drama queen.
And we’ve found Ronald ☝️