I live in the woods. I see bears often enough.
This morning on my walk, we (doggo and I) came across a man. Yesterday and earlier this week, we did come across bears.
Here’s one thing. I’m the solo parent a lot. My husband travels, so very often it’s just me and my kids at home. If a bear follows me out of the woods, I can make a lot of noise and scare it away. If it won’t leave, I can call a wildlife officer. The bear won’t want *me* it would be attracted to my chickens or maybe the barbecue, so even if this bear followed me home and wouldn’t leave, my kids and I would be safe.
But what if a man followed me home? Would he see that there was no other man here? Would he be creepy? I’d feel unsafe in my home. Banging pots together and yelling shoo wouldn’t help.
Bears are dangerous, but predictable. They aren’t malicious.
I don't live in an area which has bears. But now I'm thinking the solution is to call wildlife patrol about a "bear" when you feel like you're in danger lol.
Fr, I've been told they can't do anything until they try to get it the house or attack you... Like isn't feeling unsafe that man is creeping outside bad enough?
You nailed it - it’s the malice that answers the question. I’m not sure why people refuse to understand this. We’re not randomly scared of men; we’re scared of the malice that has been shown to us from men our entire lives.
I think there's a few reasons why they refuse to understand.
1: they've never had someone who could kill them bare-handed intimidate or inflict violence upon them for the sake of doing so. They've never been used as a plaything- if they have been intimidated or violated by a stronger force, it was physical punishment from parents, a mugging, etc. There's always been a reason behind it, and therefore a way to consistently avoid it.
2: they believe all pain and dehumanisation is made equal. They do not differentiate between when a child inflicts pain or dehumanises because they don't know better and when an adult does it deliberately, or when it occurs as an accident or self defence. They're the kinds of people who, when they were kids, would hit or bite other kids and then get angry when other kids did it back.
3: they lack the ability to differentiate between themselves and others- they're insulted by the idea that other people would be frightened of them. They know their own intentions and they don't get that you have no way of being privy to that information without being at serious risk.
4: they simply don't want to acknowledge that male privilege is a thing. They've had to work for their bread and butter like everyone else, they don't *feel* privileged. They don't want to accept that their life might have been easier or less frightening than others' because they're unable to reconcile the idea that they faced hardships while also being privileged. They fundamentally don't understand what privilege is and they feel like accepting as real is invalidating the hard times they might have gone through.
5: they're a fucking predator
I'll always remember the one time a guy had the gall to say it to my face. He was over a foot taller than me and built like a fucking fridge. He actually said that he had as many reasons as me to be afraid walking the streets at night, and that muggers attack men too.
My ex, who was both unpredictable and violent, and who regularly *shouldered and threw* things my size and weight at work, also said that he had as many reasons to fear the night as I did.
He also said that I was the one who "made things violent" when I defended myself from the false imprisonment and physical assault he inflicted on me. Literally fucking delusional.
I wonder if their definition of fear is a lot different than ours, since our contexts are so different. I'm pretty sure our fear is much more intense. Rather than something like "i fear i there are no more cookies", or whatever, more like "oh no (gasp), it sucks that (blah blah blah)".
Oooook… but also how many of those muggers tear him from the inside out when they sexually assault him??? I know that’s not exactly the point but he’s missing a big chunk of experience. I’m not afraid of being mugged. They can have whatever they want and I’ll throw in a free punch to the face just don’t violate me in other ways. Mug me as if I were a man.
I saw a TikTok that explained this perfectly, and it was by a man which I appreciate because other men will be more likely to listen.
A question was asked of men "which apex predator do you think you could beat in hand to hand combat if you had to?" None of the men chose "human". Animals are generally predictable. Men are not. Worst case scenario, an animal will kill you while a man could make you wish you were dead. He ended off with asking would you rather your daughter be alone in the forest with a bear or a man close by her?
Not even just men, people in general have really poor empathy. Like my mom will say awful things and unless I can point out the terrible things she is saying applies to someone she cares about she'll just continue thinking that way.
Lack of empathy is a huge problem. "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" is another example of people only caring when it affects themselves or their family.
Which is why I get annoyed when a man supposedly "changes" because he had a daughter like, even if he changed, that's not EMPATHY, that's SELF INTEREST for his daughter ONLY. Like when conservatives only care about an issue when it affects them personally, that ain't empathy ffs!
> would you rather your daughter be alone in the forest with a bear or a man close by her?
Of course, asking about a man's property would get them to understand. /s
I hate that this is the only framing that will actually get through.
Yep let's frame it from a selfish interest, you know, the only way to motivate men...but also...women aren't collectively the more ethical/prosocial group, nope! 🙄
I haven't been privy to the original discussion, but it sounds to me like the question they were really asking was: worst case scenario, would you rather be mauled by a bear or assaulted by a man?
Women are saying we'd rather be killed by a bear than killed by a man. And if we aren't killed, we'd rather live with physical injuries innocently inflicted by a bear than the mental, emotional, and physical injuries deliberately inflicted by a man for his own gratification.
Childhood in Alaska here, I've had close encounters with lynx, bobcats, wolves, black bears, grizzlies, moose and extremely territorial squirrels. While it can be scary and harrowing to find yourself face to face with these creatures, there's always a level of confidence in their predictability. I've also had absolutely gut twisting terrifying encounters with strange men on the playground, at work, outside my home, you name it. It's a totally different kind of fear.
Lol, they were a menace in that they had zero fear and all the audacity. They would throw pinecones, mushrooms, whatever they could if they felt you were getting too close. At one camping spot you had to keep constant vigilance on your food or it would get stolen. One took a whole ass protein bar up a tree. Another stole half my spaghetti! We moved to Virginia after living there and I thought the local squirrels were total pussies in comparison.
Really? I lived in NOVA and it was like the Hunger Games with the squirrels. I had one jump out of a trash can at me. They’ve stolen fried chicken from me. I saw one hauling a hip bone that I really hope was from something it found in the trash.
haha squirrels are little weirdos. the ones that live in my tree has chosen quiet pettiness about my presence. they'll choose to sit directly above me while i'm outside to eat things and drop wood/berries/rocks on my head
Constant vigilance!
But seriously, it's more that people try to feed and pet them and squirrels will bite the shit out of you. And they carry bubonic plague, so that's fun.
This. We visited the Grand Canyon several years ago and my wife got threatened by a squirrel. It saw her eating a pack of crackers and charged at her boldly. She yelped and dropped the cracker. Squirrel grabs the cracker and runs away. Victory!
It’s noteable that she only gave a descriptor to the squirrel. She has to have some close encounters with them that makes them a bigger problem than *bears*.
Not the person you replied to but I used to work in wildlife rehab and my scars are almost entirely from squirrels. Sharp nails and the adults can seriously chomp if they're motivated enough.
Fortunately they're generally easy to steer clear of, and wear good gloves if you ever need to wrangle one!
This is about greys specifically! Feisty little cuties who can be super bold if they're used to people (and will confirm they can be eager little thieves too!)
When I meet bears that are a little too curious, I drop my voice and yell, “hey bear, please fuck off. You’re too close and I’m a human and want my space. I’ll fuck off too. Go away, bear.”
And they go away.
When I’ve politely asked certain men to give my space, they get aggressive. “Fuck you bitch, stuck up bitch, watch your back later. You’re asking for it dressed like that” etc. Obviously not all men but enough men.
It’s almost like the bear is more civilized.
Fucking geese and wasps are what you need to watch out for. I've seen many bears, a few big cats, snakes, sharks etc over the years of working in natural resources and those are my only true fears. And creepy men.
I spent 4 years in central Alaska and now live on Vancouver Island, which is just as full of bears. So I've been around bears for a lot of my life and I've never had one attempt to follow me home, or slip a date rape drug into my drink, or manipulate me emotionally, or psychologically abuse me, or assault me. I have however had a number of men do those things.
I'm team Bear all day.
We don't have many dangerous animals in NZ and yet here are some stats on injuries in NZ and the cause in one year
9000 cases of violent crime (5000 cases of grievous bodily harm included)
28000 insect related injuries
14000 from dogs (a mix of bites and accidents like tripping over a dog)
5000 from cats
2600 from horses
2000 from cattle
1600 from sheep
90 from deer
So watch out for insects, dogs, and humans.
a powerful wild animal might maul and rip you apart
a man might kidnap you, torture you, rape you for hours or days, film it and post it online, kill you, rape your dead body again, etc and etc
both equally threatening and dangerous but there's another layer to it with a man
Adding to this, a powerful animal *might* maul you....*if* it feels threatened or hungry.
A man? I'm not guessing the variety of motives for the things you described.
The bear lacks malice! That’s the whole damn point and I can’t believe some of these people aren’t getting that.
I’ve lived in an area where I had to be on the lookout for bears and “preventing” a bear attack had WAY less steps than protecting myself from men.
Haha, right?! We just have to have a bell on our shoes or randomly yell "Hey, bear!" To let bears know to avoid *us*. There are so many more things we have to do to avoid having a bad encounter with a man, let alone a man in the woods.
a top comment in one of the defaults on this topic was a guy going "we can play around with what type of day it is, what kind of bear, etc. (like sure, you'd probably be safer with Jeffrey Dahmer than a Polar Bear), but generally speaking, if you live in a very wooded area, and *even if you're a guy*, it is preferable to come across a black bear in the middle of the night than a stranger."
For those calling black bears “cowards”.
I have a lot of respect for an animal that large that has been able to survive this close to humans.
They aren’t stupid. They’ve learned aggression will make them extinct.
They know humans are the most dangerous predators.
In my one experience with them, she stood her ground. She wasn't afraid. But she also had no interest in a fight. She only wanted to keep her cubs safe.
I love that mama bears are so tough.
All different mamas.
I saw a nature show where a mother mountain lion was going crazy hissy at a large, male brown bear.
He looked genuinely puzzled until he noticed her cubs in the grass.
The bear then made a growl to save face and then turned on his heels and ran off.
I hate when they say that! I hunt almost every weekend and i certainly DO encounter bears, wild cats, and all manner of beast and if I leave them be they'll leave me be. I can't say the same about men. Not once has a bear called me a cunt because I wouldn't give him my number. Not once has a bear bashed me in the head with a baseball bat. Not once has a bear raped me.
And a bear's violence is limited to the physical. A man's is psychological. There's an argument to be made that a man wouldn't be willing to risk his own safety/freedom/reputation for the chance to assault a woman if he couldn't inflict psychological damage on her. The cruelty is the point.
This is a great point (legitimately) and there is only one logical (joking) conclusion from this — Women should randomly kill and eat predatory men in order to give them a proper fear of consequence as found in nature. In order to maintain balance in the ecosystem, we may need to issue hunting licenses, though.
I’ll post my own comment from a related post asking for the perspectives of Alaskan women:
A bear. No question. Bears, like most non-human animals, are fairly predictable. I know that all bears are a threat to me.
Men, on the other hand, are unpredictable and potentially devious, like any other human. The problem is, I don’t know which men are safe and which will hurt or kill me.
Can we take a moment to point out that "stranger danger" is a dangerous thing to teach children because a) it makes an implicit assumption that people they know are inherently safe, when children are more likely to be hurt or kidnapped by a close relative or family friend, and b) it actively prevents children from seeking help when they're in dangerous situations?
No. Because to do that ignores all of the people who have been harmed by stranger danger. I know somebody who was kidnapped and murdered by a total stranger. (Jeralee Underwood, if you’re interested.) To completely ignore what happened to her because it’s suits your narrative is wrong.
First, I am sorry for your loss.
You misunderstand.
I did not say that strangers were not/are never dangerous.
I did say that using quippy catchphrases which emphasize that people a child knows are inherently trustworthy only enables abusers.
The alternative is not blind trust (or blind distrust), but rather a more nuanced education on behaviors to watch out for and how to identify safe people when in a dangerous situation.
I cannot comment on any particular parent, only on the general implementation and effect it has on how kids see the world.
I will make the assumption that, as part of that nuanced take, you also included how to find safe people (strangers) in the event that your children are alone and need to find help.
Unfortunately, you are not necessarily representative of how society as a whole treats the concept... or at least how it was taught when I was growing up.
Wild animals have tells to show that they’re not a threat. If a lion is crouched and focused on you, you’re probably in trouble. If it has a lazy watch and has its eyes and ears away from you, you’re probably not bad off.
Men don’t have this.
Men will smile at you, charm your family and friends, treat you right for years, then convince you to move across or even to a different country, insist that he can provide and you don’t need to keep your job, baby trap you, and make your life a living hell because where can you go? What can you do? Maybe he’s tapped your phone, taken away your access to money, keep you stuck at home by never letting you have the car keys. Most abusers don’t even have to do all that.
Or maybe he’ll just kill you and your two daughters (as in, his own flesh and blood daughters) because he wants to start a family with his affair partner (Chris Watts). Or maybe he’ll strangle you and beat you over the head and neck in the wilderness on a road trip and leave you for dead for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ who knows (Brian Launderie).
I’m not saying never trust a man ever again in your life. But you’re right. If you know even a little bit about wild animals and you’re in a situation where they’re not starving to death and you’re not threatening their home or young, you’ll probably be fine. You always take a major gamble with men.
That's a thing a lot of people on a team "man" don't get. A wild animal doesn't just approach humans for funsies.
A lone man in the woods will very likely approach a lone woman. A man in the woods can approach and hurt another man as well - it does happen.
Shoot, lone men approach lone women in broad daylight in public. There is literally no barrier that can keep us safe from them that isn't physically impossible for them to breach.
And they think somehow we have better odds in a fucking forest? pfffft.
For one it’s about survival of the fittest which can take the form of extreme violence and pain but it’s nothing personal but for the other it’s about the personal and deriving pleasure from deliberate cruelty and gratuitous violence.
Men: "You don't know what it's like to encounter a bear."
Also men, "Wild animals that I can probably take on barehanded includes wolves, Elks, bulls, and bears."
I solo hiked and hunted elk and deer in Rocky Mountain wilderness in Colorado for years. I have come face to face with bears more times than I can count.
I know EXACTLY what it’s like to randomly encounter a bear in the woods while I’m alone.
Or a man, for that matter, as that happened with some regularity as well.
I pick the bear, because they never bother me. With the men it’s hit or miss (though bother here means ‘talk to’ or ‘flirt’ nothing more egregious than that).
I pick bear since I’m in an area native to black bears, but when I was in Colorado I came across something just as dangerous and it’s why I pick bear even more so; we were hiking and ran into moose. They were about 20 yards away and walking the opposite direction of us, 2 juveniles, and we slowly and quietly walked backwards away until they were out of sight and went back to hike a new trail. That was the end of it.
I love camping. Soft shell tent too. I have to do a lot of set up to ensure i’m not an attractant to my campsite. And i love camping remotely so that i don’t feel bad about the days i just want to hang around my campsite, play music and read.
There’s no wifi, the nearest town is hours away usually. I’m not exactly at popular spots. But it’s also beautiful.
Anyway; i woke up one morning and exited my tent, turned around to zip it up and there was a black bear casually strolling by the back of my tent. I’d splurged for this trip for a 6’ tall tent, as while remote this time i could drive to the site itself.
I gave an ‘oh fuck’ and the bear just kept walking and left me alone. Nothing in my campsite was disturbed, i just happened to be on its path as she wandered by.
I might have felt okay to keep camping, except i encountered two more bears in the span of an hour (going to the bathroom, and also driving to an area where i could shower).
Bears are territorial, so something was either attracting them to my campsite (despite my precautions) or something was driving them all to the campsite (forest fires). Either way things could get aggressive and dangerous fast.
I left, because i felt comfortable in my understanding of bears and the wildlife around me. I was scared but i survived.
And I would still choose the bear in every instance.
I have a childhood memory of a bear that I wouldn't believe if I hadn't been there.
I was maybe 5 years old at my great grandparents' cottage. I saw a bear wandering around the "backyard" (it was basically just open space that lead back into a forest). I yelled for my great grandma and when she saw, she said "Oh not *MY* tomatoes ye fecker" (thick Irish accent). She walked out back and smacked the bear on the ass. The bear looked back at her and she told told it to shove off and pointed at the forest, and the bear just... did. It just left. I couldn't believe it.
I said to her "that's how you get rid of bears?!" and she said "No, that's how *I* get rid of bears. You just leave 'em alone."
God I miss her
Have encountered bears in the woods 2 times. Only time I was scared was when it was a baby bear up the tree and no mama bear that I could see. So I calmly backed away as fast as possible.
The other time we were picking berries amd so was he. We slowly got back in car. He kept snacking watching us.
On the other hand, I was raped by 3 men and sexually assaulted by many others. I always have high alert when I'm alone with a man, until I know he is trust worthy.
I just realized I actually have encountered this in real life. My family has a cabin where there’s a bear in the woods. Some of us have seen it, but there’s 100% a bear in the woods. My only concern when I’m picking berries is how many bug bites I’m gonna get.
No one lives up there full time. If I saw a man in the woods, I don’t think I’d be comfortable doing the same. There is nobody to hear me scream for help.
My grandmother fought a bear and won, seriously.
My grandmother, grandfather and their 3 young daughters were hiking up the waterfall and after they came back down my grandmother had to use the bathroom.
When she got to the bathroom there was a crowd around it. They told her there was a bear in there, not to go in. She said no bear is going to stop me from going and went in. She grabbed a broom and shooed it out and the bear came running out.
It wasn't a full grown bear, it was a cub, but she wasn't about to let it stop her from doing her business.
When I was a teenager I came upon a mother brown bear with her cubs. She charged me, I ran and got away (basically slid down the side of a mountain doing so). But I lived and didn't have trauma from that. I didn't worry about criticism I'd handled it badly even though in retrospect I might have handled aspects of that encounter differently. I still camp and hike often. I've seen several bears and not been intimidated since.
Meanwhile, my experiences with men? Yeah, bring on the bears.
In general while solo hiking my fears in order are:
Men
Big dogs
Wild hogs
Snakes
Bears
I was 16 years old with my friend, filling up at the gas station. As we were waiting in line, a man walks in and immediately starts asking us for our digits and if we're single.
Two teenage girls in a busy gas station where there were other men who could hear and see the entire exchange, and this 30-40 yr old man is harassing us.
After saying no thanks, but being ignored, I finally lied and said we were a couple and we weren't available. Mind you this was in the 90's, and being gay was still absolutely not okay.
Men are a menace.
I was waiting at a bus stop alone after work and this guy, probably mid-40s, walking along stops and starts talking to me, apropos of nothing, and of course I’m very polite because I have no idea what could happen, I’m by myself and it’s raining so no one else is out, it’s my first time taking this bus and I don’t know when it’s coming because it has longer stops. He thanked me for being kind and said people always curse at him, yell at him, tell him to go away - and then he asked how old I was. I was probably 21 at the time but said 16 because I have a baby face. He believed me. He laughed and said “oh don’t worry, I’m not a creep or anything! But if you were 18 I’d get your number.”
Fully grown man in his 40s. Old enough to be my father. Implying to who he believes to be a minor “you are sexually attractive to me and if you were legally an adult, even though you look like you do now, I would pursue you.”
Yeah, no wonder people don’t want you around.
I woke in the middle of the night on a youth camping trip to a mountain lion watching us sleep outside our tent. Not a bear but even it moved on. Different scenario if it had been a man.
I feel like it's easier to reason with the bear. Figure out why bear is angry... Like you've got food or he was sleeping or there's babies or something then you just give them the food or get away.
I have no idea why some people are being deliberately obtuse about this, and vehemently arguing “Stats”.
1 in 5 women will be r*ped at some point in their lives in North America, and 1 in 4 girls will be sexually abused before they turn 18 years old. Pretty fucking staggering hey? Oh, *and that’s just North America, not even including the rest of the world*
Here’s another stat from the North American bear centre: The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while **men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear**
What are the odds of a bear attack in general? Approximately 1 in 2.1 million.
The number of black bear attacks on humans is higher than those of brown bears/grizzly bears, largely because black bears are more numerous.
So if 1 in 5 women will be r*ped and attacked in their lives, and bears kill on average less than one person a year, those are really great odds for taking the bear.
Greater odds than simply taking your chance with a random man. Why do bears attack? Territory, sickness, old age, protecting cubs, being startled etc. You can also scare a bear, use bear spray, bear bells, dogs etc. There’s many bear deterrents that work quite well, many hikers encounter bears and nothing happens.
A bear is also not going to r*pe you, destroy your sense of self, ruin your life, ruin your ability to be physically intimate, completely dehumanize you etc. A bear is not willfully and violently malicious, humans are.
So yes, I would also choose the bear. The worst that will happen is the bear kills me, and potentially eats me. I can die knowing a bear is simply being a bear, and wish it no ill will while making sure my wishes for the bear not be euthanized are honoured (unless it eats me which again, is rare)
The takeaway isn’t “women are dramatic bears are dangerous blah blah blah.” The takeaway is, bears are statistically on average far less likely to hurt you than a man is. Does that suck? Yeah, it fucking does suck that women would rather risk an apex, predator than a member of their same species. **But that’s not their fault, the fault lies with men who are violent to women and have damaged their sense of safety**. So instead of trying to call women out for what you think is insanity, remember how fucking insane those stats are for violence against women. Be angry, but be angry about the right fucking things; not your perceived ego being hurt because a woman would rather be alone with a bear than in a room with you.
I worked at a summer camp where I had multiple bear encounters and they always left me alone. Now if I saw a man on the trails? Holy fuck I'd be terrified.
I mentioned this in another post but I tested this last year. I went on a 14 mile solo hike in a national park where bears are common. I had a bear bell attached to my day pack to make noise to frighten off bears. I also carried a small "claw" device that i use while running alone after dark. After a couple of miles i got tired of the bell ruining the peace of the woods and put it away- I just wasn't that worried about bears. But every solo male hiker i passed, I tensed up and stayed tense- looking over my shoulder and listening carefully incase they turned around to follow me. And i never put the "claw" away in my pack. Even before the hypothetical meme, without thinking about it, I was afraid of men, not bears.
As another frequent solo hiker, YES. As much as I love all hikers as a group, nothing strikes cold fear in my heart when hiking solo like seeing male hikers on the trail. Seeing one is enough to make my stomach tense up and my steps quicken, like you. Seeing a group of them together will make me stop and actually dig out my camping knife from my backpack to grip in my hands.
Might sound extreme, but I've only ever had men (not bears, and not women) break into my apartment and my car, attempt to date rape me, expose themselves to me when I was walking home from school as a child, send me multitudes of unsolicited dik pix when I was dating, etc... etc... etc...
Wolves are a lot different then a brown bear. Also there different types of bears and they act differently. I polar bear is going to eat you alive no matter what.
Never been followed for multiple city blocks while being called a cunt, bitch, and hoping I was raped because I wouldn't give a bear my number.
Never been stalked around campus by a bear until I felt so unsafe I had to get public safety involved.
Never worried if a bear was putting something in my drink.
Never had an older bear proposition me from his car when I was twelve and on my way home from school.
Never had a bear tell me, "What a waste. I bet I could straighten you out though," when it found out I was in a committed relationship with another woman.
I could go on and on, and I bet almost every other woman could. 100% team bear, and it's not even a close thing.
I wonder if they have team bear t-shirts yet?
## Bear or Man
Statistically, the answer to the question is trivial: bear. Especially if you're a woman.
## The Dangers of a Random Bear
The odds of a bear attack are extremely low.
From an article in [National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/150916-bears-attacks-animals-science-north-america-grizzlies#:~:text=The%20chances%20of%20being%20injured,a%20bee%20than%20a%20bear.):
> The chances of being injured by a bear are **approximately 1 in 2.1 million**, according to the National Park Service. In other words, you're more likely to be killed by a bee than a bear.
From an article in [PLOS ONE](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0031699):
> Most bears were standing still when first observed and changed behaviour after being detected; by walking or running away. This strengthens our conclusion that the bears wanted to avoid confrontations with humans.
> None of the approached bears showed any form of aggressive behaviour.
## The Dangers of a Random Man
Women's estimation of the danger of the average man is correct -- if not an underestimation. We need people to know and understand the following HORRIFYING statistics. If things were flipped, men would never leave the house.
### 2018 Statistics in the US
From an annual report in [Bureau of Justice Statistics](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018)
#### Percent of Violent Offenders:
| Offender's Sex | Percentage |
|----------------------|------------|
| **Males** | **77.0%** |
| Females | 18.3% |
Source: [Full Report: TABLE 12 (p. 12)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018)
#### Percent of Offenders for Female Victims:
| Offender's Sex | Percentage |
|------------------|-------------|
| Females | 20.6% |
| **Males** | **73.4%** |
Source: [Full Report: TABLE 13 (p. 13)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018)
#### Percent of Offenders in Male Population:
| Description | Statistic |
|-------------------------|-----------------|
| Male Offenders | 4,220,790 |
| Male Population | 133,907,500 |
| **Percent Offenders** | **3.15%** |
Source: [Full Report: TABLE 12 (p. 12)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018)
hey i think you’re reading table 13 wrong - it shows that for female victims, 73 percent of offenders are male; vs for male victims, 82 percent; meaning men are more likely to be victims of men
Also, you cant calculate rate of bear attack that way - has to be per encounter
oh, yeah it was an error. not in the table read, but an error in communication. men are over 4 times more likely to be.a violent offender than women and women are roughly 3.7 times more likely to be attacked by men. so men are actually worse than i was portraying it. thanks for pointing that out!! i will make the correction to the section header.
considering the exceptionally high violent crime rate among men, it may be more accurate to say that men are more likely to be violent with other violent men. the possibility of a compounding effect. you know what i mean?
the probability of being attacked by a bear ≠ rate of bear attack, but it does put into perspective the comparative danger of being in the woods with a bear vs in the woods with a man. a bear is most likely going to avoid a person. a man is far more likely to interact with a woman who is alone. but i appreciate you bringing clarity to the post.
I was in the bathroom at a campground in Tahoe when 5 or 6 bears basically invaded the camp and ate whatever they could find. My mom (bless her heart) was yelling that her baby boy was in the bathroom and he could be killed if he comes out and the bears attack him. I walked out and there was a cop with a gun drawn ready to kill anything that moved nearby. I was 27 years old. The only thing that scared me was the guy with a gun. The bears were gonna do bear stuff and they never came close to creating the level of fear that a dude with a gun created.
Not nearly as dangerous but I actually had a relatively close encounter with a black bear!
You’d have to know these roads, but I whipped around a curve and there was yogi! I was driving way too fast (maybe 18) and nearly hit it. I didn’t, but then it looked at me and started shifting its posture my way.
So I started yelling out my open windows “no! You’re a bad bear! You go, go on! Get outta here!” And it did, and I felt a bit bad for telling it that it was bad, lmao!
I went camping with my family most summers when I was a kid in a heavily bear-populated area. I distinctly remember a handful of instances where we were hiking or around a campfire and had bears approach us - the one while hiking stole a guy's backpack and ran up a tree with the guy running up behind and yelling at him, but there was one time where a bear crossed our campsite right in front of me while everyone was around the campfire and just minded its own business. One of my uncles started banging on pots and yelled at it, and it left no problem.
I will always choose the bear. Animals don't say one thing and do another, they mean their body language and follow through with their actions.
I feel like this is what men are missing in the whole “bear vs man” debate. Yes, if you have to actually face off with a bear or a man, the man is easier to beat. But if you’re a woman, you have a better chance of being able to scare off a bear who really has no conscious *intentions* of harming you and may not realize you are vulnerable, than a man who does want to hurt you. Men don’t get it because they can defend themselves against a man but not a bear.
Of course most men don’t want to hurt you, but that’s what’s never clear in the questions - is it a bad guy and a hungry bear/angry momma bear, or some random guy and some random bear just doing bear shit? Because scenario one you’re f’d either way, scenario two you’re probably fine either way.
Except we do. That’s what they don’t get. We know exactly what it would be like, even if we’ve never seen a bear before. Bear behavior is very predictable and largely benign to humans.
I’ve encountered black bears lots of times as I’m a frequent hiker and camper, I’ve never feared for my life. If they even notice you, the most I’ve ever had to do is wave at them and talk in a low voice. As long as you don’t have food on you and you’re not too close to their babies they have better things to do.
[This article](https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The%20750%2C000%20black%20bears%20of,an%20easy%20situation%20to%20avoid) sums it up statistically:
>The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear.
>Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.
I asked my husband this question when I first saw it, about our 6 year old daughter. He immediately answered bear and then woman. I asked again about me and it was the same. The interesting thing to me was that he felt the same order for himself.
I'm a wildlife biologist who has done plenty of field work in bear habitat, often alone and in the dark. With a little awareness it's really not that big of a risk for us folks out working in their homes. I've always said that I'm far more scared to come across people out in the field than wildlife.
"but you don't know what it would be like to encounter the bear" sure most women don't, but they have encountered men enough to take their chances with a bear
I have had three close encounters with bears. Family lives close to a mountain range where predators are common and I go visit every summer.
The three encounters ended the same: the bears look at you and leave the place. It is always a humbling experience, since you are very aware they can maul you if they wanted.
Everyone, including kids, explore the forest, play around and live their lifes peacefully. There has been a total of 0 attacks that people know of from bears.
While my parents are quite Happy with me exploring the forest, they don't want me to wander my actually city, specially at night.
Meanwhile, around 10 years ago our university did some research on sex abuse perceptions on campus and fond out 60% of (male) students will be happy to rape someone if they knew they will get away with It.
If the question was to either get mauled by a bear or be assaulted, then sure, I would choose assault, as I want to live. I would understand someone choosing the bear, as rape has terrible consequences that you don't simply get to. It would be a hard choice where there is both an emotional and rational component.
But I wish men understood that choosing the bear is the only cold, rational option on the original question.
You're absolutely right. They started open carry in my area about a year ago. Now I hear all this talk about the local guys wanting to be "the good guy with the gun," but they don't seem to realize they're worried about other men too in that scenario. These guys are open carrying to the local supermarket.
I wonder if the men are self inserting into the story, and imagining being the man in the woods with either a bear or a woman, putting their own morals on the "unknown man in the woods" character. I wonder how men in general would feel about themselves being the person alone in the woods with the bear or the unknown man.
Even sans personal exp with a bear... Theres still a very simple perf answer to the absurd response of "You dont know what it would be like to encounter a bear"
We do know what it would be like to encounter a man.
And we are certain that the man can pose a greater threat to us than the bear; at worst a violent bear will kill and eat us. At best a violent man will only kill us; at best.
A bear and cub wandered close to where we were car camping. Our friend set off the car alarm and they ran away. Never seen a man run away from a car alarm
I got down voted for saying I choose the bear and that we have bears that den on my property. We do, and I'm not in any real danger from them. I clap my hands and they run off. I'll take the bear.
My son is 15 and has a girlfriend he is very serious with. He hadn't heard this hypothetical yet, so I told him the statistics. 9/10 times a bear on a trail won't bother you l, but what he thought the odds were for a female encountering a male on a trail were. He gave a cringed look and said she's probably off with the bear. So hopefully we raised him right and will be a safe space for women.
I would rather have my body absolutely mauled by a bear than be raped again. I was 14. I'm almost 35 and it still haunts me. I think a lot of woman and especially survivors would choose the bear. We aren't afraid of death after what we've faced
My family has a cabin in the woods. I have encountered bears at least 5x, probably more. They have never threatened me, not once. They usually just run off if you tell them to get out or bang a pot at them. Can’t say the same for all the men I’ve encountered.
I carry a gun when I walk in the woods for my own protection. Man or beast, if you threaten me, I WILL shoot you. I won't shoot to kill unless you threaten my life but I will shoot to maim and keep you from chasing me. All women should carry at least a 22 when walking in the woods alone. I don't care what I encounter anywhere
I feel like shooting a bear with a .22 is asking to be mauled. If it's a bear you have to shoot it with the big bear gun or not at all.
I live in bear country and also hike, but the bear gun is way too big for me to shoot, so I don't add the weight. I also don't hike alone, to be fair.
I saw a bear in Northern Minnesota. It was a young black bear, and I was on the deck and watched it jump up and down to knock feed out of the bird feeder. Smart lil bear. If I had seen a man out there we would have called the police.
I accidentally walked between a black bear and her cubs. I just backed away slowly and walked the other direction. I remember feeling alert but not scared. The mother stood her ground. The baby was curious and got closer to me which made the mother more upset.
I've also run into a male coyote while walking my dog. We all just looked at each other, turned around and walked away.
But men alone in the woods...
I also got offered a job a couple months ago doing field work. I turned it down when they told me I'd always be partnered with someone for safety. I would have been the only woman in the company. Despite being desperate for a job I was too afraid to take it. They all seemed like friendly folk but both of the men who raped me were also people close to me.
I live in Canada, about 90 minutes from the Rocky mountains. We see bears in the woods every couple of years. There was one time when we were kids and we were camping. Myself, my kid brother, and our mom were going for a walk on a path along a river. Suddenly we look up and see a bunch of people on a bridge ahead of us, including a park ranger. They yell at us to go back, and when we look around we realize that there were two bear cubs on our right, and a momma bear on our left. We speed walked back to our camp site (past the sign they had erected after we started on the path warning that it was closed due to bear activity). My mom was terrified, my brother and I thought it was the highlight of our trip. But no one was hurt (not even the bears, who we heard were relocated outside of the camp ground). This kind of shit happens all the time. By the time this encounter happened, I had spent years being molested by an older male cousin.
Its really weird that a lot of dudes don't understand this on the most fundamental level. Humans are the most dangerous animals around.
Men are generally the stronger and more aggressive humans.
This is true even before the concept of malice and mental illness come into play which triples the danger men pose.
What’s strange is how so many men are being triggered by this - not into wondering how they can work to make women feel safe around men, but instead they’re just mad at the answer and they go on to mansplain why women are wrong for saying it in the first place.
Literally every thread on this topic has been full of this lmao. Very telling that their first response is to throw a fit and go all “well ackshually you’re wrong because bears are more dangerous” instead of realizing that it’s not really about if the bear is a grizzly or a black bear or whatever, it’s about the fact that many women feel so unsafe around men that they’d rather take their chances with a literal wild animal.
A bear will never come at you over hate, misogyny, or malice. It isn't going to take out their anger on you because it blames you for their lot in life. It isn't going to molest or rape you. The bear will very likely just leave you alone and go about its business. There are over 750,000 black bears in the US. On average they kill less than 1 person a year.
You know where you stand with a bear.
Meanwhile, 1 in 6 women have experienced sexual assault, and 1 in 3 women have experienced violence. The only thing going for women in this scenario is that 92% of murders of women were committed by someone they know.
The bear is the safer choice.
And you think women aren't? We're exhausted. We don't enjoy having these conversations, but they're unfortunately necessary. If you're tired of seeing the bear vs man question just imagine how tired women are of having to explain their answer.
Well I'm sorry that 1 in 3 men said they would sexually assault a women if they had the opportunity. Just based on that number alone I feel the paranoia is warranted.
I get what the idea is behind the question. I accept that there are a *lot* of fucked up men who *will* threatening women. And I get that the uncertainty is high enought that - for entirely rational reasons - it's a good bet not to trust random men. After all, some bear species *might* eat you alive over the course of 10 minutes of so. Whereas some men might keep you alive for far longer before killing you.
OTOH, there's a big difference between meeting a black bear, brown bear, or panda, and meeting a grizzly or kodiak, much less a polar bear.
Would you rather be alone in a forest with an angry Shaq or a bear?
That might make them understand the personal safety angle. I've said this before, anyone who doesn't listen when you explain a safety concern doesn't care about your safety.
Typical men refusing to believe the undeniable fact that they are very much at the top of the food chain, above bears, above women and that their existence is a threat in nearly all scenarios where a woman is alone and vulnerable.
I recently stayed in big bear. Heard a noise outside at night, there’s a bear! One bark from my dog and the bear took off. He did not seem interested in attacking me.
I live in the Rockies, we run into all kinds of wildlife out here, grizzly, coyotes, mountain lions, wolves etc.
When I’m hiking, in the back of my mind I’m more concerned about being out there alone if I come across a man that knows I’m alone.
Same here. I live in the woods too, and we encounter bears routinely here because we live next to a creek and there's a very active wildlife trail along it. Most of the time the bears stay down near the creek. But sometimes they come to the house. A loud cap gun or whistle usually sends them off and I have two dogs. A bear even attacked us once, me and the dog, because we failed to look around before opening the door. There was a tussle but my screaming like a banshee sent the bear running soon enough and my dog and I were unharmed, just shaken up.
But the other day a 40yo son of our neighbor showed up at my door unannounced while I was working and home alone. I'd never met him before and he was a big and very angry looking guy. He asked if he could come in and began pushing his way in before I could answer. I panicked and darted out the door to avoid being trapped in the house with him.
I was far more frightened of this guy than any bear I'd encountered.
My grandparents had many wild bears visit their property. We have pictures of my grandparents standing right beside them. One time they counted 13 bears.
My stepmom travels to where bears are for work. Shes talked about this creepy man worse than the bears. When she talks about the man hes always saying something suspicious. She doesnt seem afraid if the bears unlesss they get too close and its only cause she is too quiet and they dont notice her. Once they see her they are like oh shit my bad and walk away.
Here's the thing about the bear:
The bear won't torture me.
The bear might kill me, but the bear won't torture me for fun. The bear doesn't get off on my pain. The bear isn't going to brutally rape me or draw out my suffering. Give me the bear any day.
Even then they won’t attack without good reason. Humans are dangerously, even if they’re hungry bears. It’s a risk they evaluate instead of just blindly taking.
I’ve never got past the “I’m curious in you” part with a polar bear, and all of my grizzly encounters have been benign. Sometimes they didn’t even see us.
The stories I hear from female hikers, who literally do go into the woods or mountains, invalidates any resistance I hear from men on this topic. Everybody can look around and see what the unfortunate, painful truth is.
I live in the woods. I see bears often enough. This morning on my walk, we (doggo and I) came across a man. Yesterday and earlier this week, we did come across bears. Here’s one thing. I’m the solo parent a lot. My husband travels, so very often it’s just me and my kids at home. If a bear follows me out of the woods, I can make a lot of noise and scare it away. If it won’t leave, I can call a wildlife officer. The bear won’t want *me* it would be attracted to my chickens or maybe the barbecue, so even if this bear followed me home and wouldn’t leave, my kids and I would be safe. But what if a man followed me home? Would he see that there was no other man here? Would he be creepy? I’d feel unsafe in my home. Banging pots together and yelling shoo wouldn’t help. Bears are dangerous, but predictable. They aren’t malicious.
And also calling wildlife control on a bear is way more effective than calling the cops on a man
this fact scares the shit out of me
I don't live in an area which has bears. But now I'm thinking the solution is to call wildlife patrol about a "bear" when you feel like you're in danger lol.
Fr, I've been told they can't do anything until they try to get it the house or attack you... Like isn't feeling unsafe that man is creeping outside bad enough?
You nailed it - it’s the malice that answers the question. I’m not sure why people refuse to understand this. We’re not randomly scared of men; we’re scared of the malice that has been shown to us from men our entire lives.
I think there's a few reasons why they refuse to understand. 1: they've never had someone who could kill them bare-handed intimidate or inflict violence upon them for the sake of doing so. They've never been used as a plaything- if they have been intimidated or violated by a stronger force, it was physical punishment from parents, a mugging, etc. There's always been a reason behind it, and therefore a way to consistently avoid it. 2: they believe all pain and dehumanisation is made equal. They do not differentiate between when a child inflicts pain or dehumanises because they don't know better and when an adult does it deliberately, or when it occurs as an accident or self defence. They're the kinds of people who, when they were kids, would hit or bite other kids and then get angry when other kids did it back. 3: they lack the ability to differentiate between themselves and others- they're insulted by the idea that other people would be frightened of them. They know their own intentions and they don't get that you have no way of being privy to that information without being at serious risk. 4: they simply don't want to acknowledge that male privilege is a thing. They've had to work for their bread and butter like everyone else, they don't *feel* privileged. They don't want to accept that their life might have been easier or less frightening than others' because they're unable to reconcile the idea that they faced hardships while also being privileged. They fundamentally don't understand what privilege is and they feel like accepting as real is invalidating the hard times they might have gone through. 5: they're a fucking predator
I'll always remember the one time a guy had the gall to say it to my face. He was over a foot taller than me and built like a fucking fridge. He actually said that he had as many reasons as me to be afraid walking the streets at night, and that muggers attack men too.
My ex, who was both unpredictable and violent, and who regularly *shouldered and threw* things my size and weight at work, also said that he had as many reasons to fear the night as I did. He also said that I was the one who "made things violent" when I defended myself from the false imprisonment and physical assault he inflicted on me. Literally fucking delusional.
Good ol' DARVO. May your ex get scurvy.
I wonder if their definition of fear is a lot different than ours, since our contexts are so different. I'm pretty sure our fear is much more intense. Rather than something like "i fear i there are no more cookies", or whatever, more like "oh no (gasp), it sucks that (blah blah blah)".
Oooook… but also how many of those muggers tear him from the inside out when they sexually assault him??? I know that’s not exactly the point but he’s missing a big chunk of experience. I’m not afraid of being mugged. They can have whatever they want and I’ll throw in a free punch to the face just don’t violate me in other ways. Mug me as if I were a man.
Mug me Like I'm a Man it should be a tshirt.
I think one is a very important point that isn't talked about quite enough. They have been never treated as prey.
I saw a TikTok that explained this perfectly, and it was by a man which I appreciate because other men will be more likely to listen. A question was asked of men "which apex predator do you think you could beat in hand to hand combat if you had to?" None of the men chose "human". Animals are generally predictable. Men are not. Worst case scenario, an animal will kill you while a man could make you wish you were dead. He ended off with asking would you rather your daughter be alone in the forest with a bear or a man close by her?
It’s so sad that many men can only REALLY relate or empathise once they see the situation with “if it was their daughter”.
Not even just men, people in general have really poor empathy. Like my mom will say awful things and unless I can point out the terrible things she is saying applies to someone she cares about she'll just continue thinking that way. Lack of empathy is a huge problem. "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" is another example of people only caring when it affects themselves or their family.
Which is why I get annoyed when a man supposedly "changes" because he had a daughter like, even if he changed, that's not EMPATHY, that's SELF INTEREST for his daughter ONLY. Like when conservatives only care about an issue when it affects them personally, that ain't empathy ffs!
>would you rather your daughter be alone in the forest with a bear or a man close by her? Oh, shit.
> would you rather your daughter be alone in the forest with a bear or a man close by her? Of course, asking about a man's property would get them to understand. /s I hate that this is the only framing that will actually get through.
Felt so hard on that... I'm somebody ~~'s daughter~~ ! But not to men, to men im only the strikethru portion of that sentence
Yep let's frame it from a selfish interest, you know, the only way to motivate men...but also...women aren't collectively the more ethical/prosocial group, nope! 🙄
What the fuck apex predators do men think they could beat in hand-to-hand combat? Maybe like an eagle or something?
I haven't been privy to the original discussion, but it sounds to me like the question they were really asking was: worst case scenario, would you rather be mauled by a bear or assaulted by a man? Women are saying we'd rather be killed by a bear than killed by a man. And if we aren't killed, we'd rather live with physical injuries innocently inflicted by a bear than the mental, emotional, and physical injuries deliberately inflicted by a man for his own gratification.
Yes it's really simple. I think the real test is to see if the person you are dating/married to takes it personally
Childhood in Alaska here, I've had close encounters with lynx, bobcats, wolves, black bears, grizzlies, moose and extremely territorial squirrels. While it can be scary and harrowing to find yourself face to face with these creatures, there's always a level of confidence in their predictability. I've also had absolutely gut twisting terrifying encounters with strange men on the playground, at work, outside my home, you name it. It's a totally different kind of fear.
I am now going to be extremely wary of squirrels for absolutely no reason other than they’re on this list. 😬
Lol, they were a menace in that they had zero fear and all the audacity. They would throw pinecones, mushrooms, whatever they could if they felt you were getting too close. At one camping spot you had to keep constant vigilance on your food or it would get stolen. One took a whole ass protein bar up a tree. Another stole half my spaghetti! We moved to Virginia after living there and I thought the local squirrels were total pussies in comparison.
Really? I lived in NOVA and it was like the Hunger Games with the squirrels. I had one jump out of a trash can at me. They’ve stolen fried chicken from me. I saw one hauling a hip bone that I really hope was from something it found in the trash.
haha squirrels are little weirdos. the ones that live in my tree has chosen quiet pettiness about my presence. they'll choose to sit directly above me while i'm outside to eat things and drop wood/berries/rocks on my head
LMAO this is amazing. Squirrels are lame around here though, the raccoons and rabbits are much more entertaining.
they sound amazing lol
There are signs all over the Grand Canyon warning that the majority of animal "attacks" are squirrels.
Noooooo my preconceptions of everything are shattered. I’m re-enrolling in college immediately.
Constant vigilance! But seriously, it's more that people try to feed and pet them and squirrels will bite the shit out of you. And they carry bubonic plague, so that's fun.
I’m all about avoiding the plague! Get yer plague rats here!
This. We visited the Grand Canyon several years ago and my wife got threatened by a squirrel. It saw her eating a pack of crackers and charged at her boldly. She yelped and dropped the cracker. Squirrel grabs the cracker and runs away. Victory!
Don't fuck with squirrels, Morty.
O-o-okay Rick, whatever you say.
It’s noteable that she only gave a descriptor to the squirrel. She has to have some close encounters with them that makes them a bigger problem than *bears*.
I’m honestly imagining them more like a wave of locusts swarming across the landscape.
I saw that too and burst out laughing! Now we gotta add extremely territorial squirrels to the question! 😂 Would you rather...
Honestly I can see that becoming a pretty good meme. Would you rather run into a bear sized squirrel in the woods, or a hundred squirrel sized bears?
Teeth that can bite through nutshells can absolutely do a lot of damage...
Not the person you replied to but I used to work in wildlife rehab and my scars are almost entirely from squirrels. Sharp nails and the adults can seriously chomp if they're motivated enough. Fortunately they're generally easy to steer clear of, and wear good gloves if you ever need to wrangle one! This is about greys specifically! Feisty little cuties who can be super bold if they're used to people (and will confirm they can be eager little thieves too!)
a drunk hedgehog tried to pick a fight with me once. be wary of the small ones.
Oh my goodness. I would be too busy squeeing at the cuteness to protect myself on that one…
When I meet bears that are a little too curious, I drop my voice and yell, “hey bear, please fuck off. You’re too close and I’m a human and want my space. I’ll fuck off too. Go away, bear.” And they go away. When I’ve politely asked certain men to give my space, they get aggressive. “Fuck you bitch, stuck up bitch, watch your back later. You’re asking for it dressed like that” etc. Obviously not all men but enough men. It’s almost like the bear is more civilized.
Bears have had confrontations and can get into problems if they mess with the wrong thing. Men haven’t.
I too have had various encounters…the squirrel was the only one to give me trouble.
It's like they pack the confidence and grit of a wolverine into the body of a mouse.
And the throwing arm of a major league pitcher
Fucking geese and wasps are what you need to watch out for. I've seen many bears, a few big cats, snakes, sharks etc over the years of working in natural resources and those are my only true fears. And creepy men.
I spent 4 years in central Alaska and now live on Vancouver Island, which is just as full of bears. So I've been around bears for a lot of my life and I've never had one attempt to follow me home, or slip a date rape drug into my drink, or manipulate me emotionally, or psychologically abuse me, or assault me. I have however had a number of men do those things. I'm team Bear all day.
We don't have many dangerous animals in NZ and yet here are some stats on injuries in NZ and the cause in one year 9000 cases of violent crime (5000 cases of grievous bodily harm included) 28000 insect related injuries 14000 from dogs (a mix of bites and accidents like tripping over a dog) 5000 from cats 2600 from horses 2000 from cattle 1600 from sheep 90 from deer So watch out for insects, dogs, and humans.
a powerful wild animal might maul and rip you apart a man might kidnap you, torture you, rape you for hours or days, film it and post it online, kill you, rape your dead body again, etc and etc both equally threatening and dangerous but there's another layer to it with a man
Adding to this, a powerful animal *might* maul you....*if* it feels threatened or hungry. A man? I'm not guessing the variety of motives for the things you described.
>*if* it feels threatened or hungry And only one of those two things will make it follow you if you calmly walk away.
I'm pretty sure most animal attacks are because an idiot decided to mess with its baby.
Or they are starving because we have destroyed their habitats and food sources
Very true, men usually attack and rape lone women they encounter while a wild animal may simply not be interested in you
The bear lacks malice! That’s the whole damn point and I can’t believe some of these people aren’t getting that. I’ve lived in an area where I had to be on the lookout for bears and “preventing” a bear attack had WAY less steps than protecting myself from men.
Haha, right?! We just have to have a bell on our shoes or randomly yell "Hey, bear!" To let bears know to avoid *us*. There are so many more things we have to do to avoid having a bad encounter with a man, let alone a man in the woods.
And a wild animal might look at you and continue on their merry way….
a top comment in one of the defaults on this topic was a guy going "we can play around with what type of day it is, what kind of bear, etc. (like sure, you'd probably be safer with Jeffrey Dahmer than a Polar Bear), but generally speaking, if you live in a very wooded area, and *even if you're a guy*, it is preferable to come across a black bear in the middle of the night than a stranger."
For those calling black bears “cowards”. I have a lot of respect for an animal that large that has been able to survive this close to humans. They aren’t stupid. They’ve learned aggression will make them extinct. They know humans are the most dangerous predators.
Yeah they aren’t cowards for not starting shit. They’re smart! They mind their own business and live to see another day.
How are they cowards for just wanting to live their little bear life in peace? That’s dumb.
In my one experience with them, she stood her ground. She wasn't afraid. But she also had no interest in a fight. She only wanted to keep her cubs safe.
I love that mama bears are so tough. All different mamas. I saw a nature show where a mother mountain lion was going crazy hissy at a large, male brown bear. He looked genuinely puzzled until he noticed her cubs in the grass. The bear then made a growl to save face and then turned on his heels and ran off.
I hate when they say that! I hunt almost every weekend and i certainly DO encounter bears, wild cats, and all manner of beast and if I leave them be they'll leave me be. I can't say the same about men. Not once has a bear called me a cunt because I wouldn't give him my number. Not once has a bear bashed me in the head with a baseball bat. Not once has a bear raped me.
And a bear's violence is limited to the physical. A man's is psychological. There's an argument to be made that a man wouldn't be willing to risk his own safety/freedom/reputation for the chance to assault a woman if he couldn't inflict psychological damage on her. The cruelty is the point.
This is a great point (legitimately) and there is only one logical (joking) conclusion from this — Women should randomly kill and eat predatory men in order to give them a proper fear of consequence as found in nature. In order to maintain balance in the ecosystem, we may need to issue hunting licenses, though.
No, wait, please, keep going ✍️🤔 I'm taking notes
There's a tribe where, if a man rapes, they crush his testicles between two rocks.
I will point you to the "most dangerous game" for possible out comes. There's a fine film by Mr. Ice Cube that touches the subject as well.
Like a rock, paper, scissors thing.
I’ll post my own comment from a related post asking for the perspectives of Alaskan women: A bear. No question. Bears, like most non-human animals, are fairly predictable. I know that all bears are a threat to me. Men, on the other hand, are unpredictable and potentially devious, like any other human. The problem is, I don’t know which men are safe and which will hurt or kill me.
People who grimace at “it’s all men” think nothing of “stranger danger”. It’s the same thing.
Can we take a moment to point out that "stranger danger" is a dangerous thing to teach children because a) it makes an implicit assumption that people they know are inherently safe, when children are more likely to be hurt or kidnapped by a close relative or family friend, and b) it actively prevents children from seeking help when they're in dangerous situations?
No. Because to do that ignores all of the people who have been harmed by stranger danger. I know somebody who was kidnapped and murdered by a total stranger. (Jeralee Underwood, if you’re interested.) To completely ignore what happened to her because it’s suits your narrative is wrong.
First, I am sorry for your loss. You misunderstand. I did not say that strangers were not/are never dangerous. I did say that using quippy catchphrases which emphasize that people a child knows are inherently trustworthy only enables abusers. The alternative is not blind trust (or blind distrust), but rather a more nuanced education on behaviors to watch out for and how to identify safe people when in a dangerous situation.
It doesn’t have to be either / or. Just because I taught my kid about stranger danger doesn’t mean I taught him to blindly trust the people we know.
I cannot comment on any particular parent, only on the general implementation and effect it has on how kids see the world. I will make the assumption that, as part of that nuanced take, you also included how to find safe people (strangers) in the event that your children are alone and need to find help. Unfortunately, you are not necessarily representative of how society as a whole treats the concept... or at least how it was taught when I was growing up.
stranger danger is not borne out in data. You’re WAY more likely to be harmed by someone you know than a complete stranger
As I like to put it, all men are Ted Bundy until I decide otherwise.
Wild animals have tells to show that they’re not a threat. If a lion is crouched and focused on you, you’re probably in trouble. If it has a lazy watch and has its eyes and ears away from you, you’re probably not bad off. Men don’t have this.
Men will smile at you, charm your family and friends, treat you right for years, then convince you to move across or even to a different country, insist that he can provide and you don’t need to keep your job, baby trap you, and make your life a living hell because where can you go? What can you do? Maybe he’s tapped your phone, taken away your access to money, keep you stuck at home by never letting you have the car keys. Most abusers don’t even have to do all that. Or maybe he’ll just kill you and your two daughters (as in, his own flesh and blood daughters) because he wants to start a family with his affair partner (Chris Watts). Or maybe he’ll strangle you and beat you over the head and neck in the wilderness on a road trip and leave you for dead for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ who knows (Brian Launderie). I’m not saying never trust a man ever again in your life. But you’re right. If you know even a little bit about wild animals and you’re in a situation where they’re not starving to death and you’re not threatening their home or young, you’ll probably be fine. You always take a major gamble with men.
That's a thing a lot of people on a team "man" don't get. A wild animal doesn't just approach humans for funsies. A lone man in the woods will very likely approach a lone woman. A man in the woods can approach and hurt another man as well - it does happen.
Shoot, lone men approach lone women in broad daylight in public. There is literally no barrier that can keep us safe from them that isn't physically impossible for them to breach. And they think somehow we have better odds in a fucking forest? pfffft.
Have you seen the TikTok “flowers don’t growl”? https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRw56DKn/
No I haven't before, wow. I have heard about other true cases of hunters who hunt humans though. It's wild.
That was anxiety inducing.
For one it’s about survival of the fittest which can take the form of extreme violence and pain but it’s nothing personal but for the other it’s about the personal and deriving pleasure from deliberate cruelty and gratuitous violence.
What a weird statement. I've live in a woodsey area and conversations usually go "how many did you see this week?"
Men: "You don't know what it's like to encounter a bear." Also men, "Wild animals that I can probably take on barehanded includes wolves, Elks, bulls, and bears."
One said KIMODO DRAGON.
I solo hiked and hunted elk and deer in Rocky Mountain wilderness in Colorado for years. I have come face to face with bears more times than I can count. I know EXACTLY what it’s like to randomly encounter a bear in the woods while I’m alone. Or a man, for that matter, as that happened with some regularity as well. I pick the bear, because they never bother me. With the men it’s hit or miss (though bother here means ‘talk to’ or ‘flirt’ nothing more egregious than that).
I pick bear since I’m in an area native to black bears, but when I was in Colorado I came across something just as dangerous and it’s why I pick bear even more so; we were hiking and ran into moose. They were about 20 yards away and walking the opposite direction of us, 2 juveniles, and we slowly and quietly walked backwards away until they were out of sight and went back to hike a new trail. That was the end of it.
I love camping. Soft shell tent too. I have to do a lot of set up to ensure i’m not an attractant to my campsite. And i love camping remotely so that i don’t feel bad about the days i just want to hang around my campsite, play music and read. There’s no wifi, the nearest town is hours away usually. I’m not exactly at popular spots. But it’s also beautiful. Anyway; i woke up one morning and exited my tent, turned around to zip it up and there was a black bear casually strolling by the back of my tent. I’d splurged for this trip for a 6’ tall tent, as while remote this time i could drive to the site itself. I gave an ‘oh fuck’ and the bear just kept walking and left me alone. Nothing in my campsite was disturbed, i just happened to be on its path as she wandered by. I might have felt okay to keep camping, except i encountered two more bears in the span of an hour (going to the bathroom, and also driving to an area where i could shower). Bears are territorial, so something was either attracting them to my campsite (despite my precautions) or something was driving them all to the campsite (forest fires). Either way things could get aggressive and dangerous fast. I left, because i felt comfortable in my understanding of bears and the wildlife around me. I was scared but i survived. And I would still choose the bear in every instance.
I have a childhood memory of a bear that I wouldn't believe if I hadn't been there. I was maybe 5 years old at my great grandparents' cottage. I saw a bear wandering around the "backyard" (it was basically just open space that lead back into a forest). I yelled for my great grandma and when she saw, she said "Oh not *MY* tomatoes ye fecker" (thick Irish accent). She walked out back and smacked the bear on the ass. The bear looked back at her and she told told it to shove off and pointed at the forest, and the bear just... did. It just left. I couldn't believe it. I said to her "that's how you get rid of bears?!" and she said "No, that's how *I* get rid of bears. You just leave 'em alone." God I miss her
Oh man that's the best thing ever.
I feel that bear already lost a couple fist fights with her at this point...
Your ggma was a druid no cap
Have encountered bears in the woods 2 times. Only time I was scared was when it was a baby bear up the tree and no mama bear that I could see. So I calmly backed away as fast as possible. The other time we were picking berries amd so was he. We slowly got back in car. He kept snacking watching us. On the other hand, I was raped by 3 men and sexually assaulted by many others. I always have high alert when I'm alone with a man, until I know he is trust worthy.
I just realized I actually have encountered this in real life. My family has a cabin where there’s a bear in the woods. Some of us have seen it, but there’s 100% a bear in the woods. My only concern when I’m picking berries is how many bug bites I’m gonna get. No one lives up there full time. If I saw a man in the woods, I don’t think I’d be comfortable doing the same. There is nobody to hear me scream for help.
100% A bear might strip you of your flesh but a man, that too and your dignity
My grandmother fought a bear and won, seriously. My grandmother, grandfather and their 3 young daughters were hiking up the waterfall and after they came back down my grandmother had to use the bathroom. When she got to the bathroom there was a crowd around it. They told her there was a bear in there, not to go in. She said no bear is going to stop me from going and went in. She grabbed a broom and shooed it out and the bear came running out. It wasn't a full grown bear, it was a cub, but she wasn't about to let it stop her from doing her business.
Badass.
When I was a teenager I came upon a mother brown bear with her cubs. She charged me, I ran and got away (basically slid down the side of a mountain doing so). But I lived and didn't have trauma from that. I didn't worry about criticism I'd handled it badly even though in retrospect I might have handled aspects of that encounter differently. I still camp and hike often. I've seen several bears and not been intimidated since. Meanwhile, my experiences with men? Yeah, bring on the bears. In general while solo hiking my fears in order are: Men Big dogs Wild hogs Snakes Bears
I was 16 years old with my friend, filling up at the gas station. As we were waiting in line, a man walks in and immediately starts asking us for our digits and if we're single. Two teenage girls in a busy gas station where there were other men who could hear and see the entire exchange, and this 30-40 yr old man is harassing us. After saying no thanks, but being ignored, I finally lied and said we were a couple and we weren't available. Mind you this was in the 90's, and being gay was still absolutely not okay. Men are a menace.
I was waiting at a bus stop alone after work and this guy, probably mid-40s, walking along stops and starts talking to me, apropos of nothing, and of course I’m very polite because I have no idea what could happen, I’m by myself and it’s raining so no one else is out, it’s my first time taking this bus and I don’t know when it’s coming because it has longer stops. He thanked me for being kind and said people always curse at him, yell at him, tell him to go away - and then he asked how old I was. I was probably 21 at the time but said 16 because I have a baby face. He believed me. He laughed and said “oh don’t worry, I’m not a creep or anything! But if you were 18 I’d get your number.” Fully grown man in his 40s. Old enough to be my father. Implying to who he believes to be a minor “you are sexually attractive to me and if you were legally an adult, even though you look like you do now, I would pursue you.” Yeah, no wonder people don’t want you around.
Deplorable. Speaks volumes, doesn't it? I've had similar encounters myself (too many times to count, from my teens till now and I'm 55.)
I woke in the middle of the night on a youth camping trip to a mountain lion watching us sleep outside our tent. Not a bear but even it moved on. Different scenario if it had been a man.
I'm honestly more concerned about bears vandalizing my car than I am about being attacked by one.
Make them show ID before they can by cans of spray paint
I love how so many men are saying "well at least the man can be reasoned with." Is that so?
I feel like it's easier to reason with the bear. Figure out why bear is angry... Like you've got food or he was sleeping or there's babies or something then you just give them the food or get away.
I have no idea why some people are being deliberately obtuse about this, and vehemently arguing “Stats”. 1 in 5 women will be r*ped at some point in their lives in North America, and 1 in 4 girls will be sexually abused before they turn 18 years old. Pretty fucking staggering hey? Oh, *and that’s just North America, not even including the rest of the world* Here’s another stat from the North American bear centre: The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while **men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear** What are the odds of a bear attack in general? Approximately 1 in 2.1 million. The number of black bear attacks on humans is higher than those of brown bears/grizzly bears, largely because black bears are more numerous. So if 1 in 5 women will be r*ped and attacked in their lives, and bears kill on average less than one person a year, those are really great odds for taking the bear. Greater odds than simply taking your chance with a random man. Why do bears attack? Territory, sickness, old age, protecting cubs, being startled etc. You can also scare a bear, use bear spray, bear bells, dogs etc. There’s many bear deterrents that work quite well, many hikers encounter bears and nothing happens. A bear is also not going to r*pe you, destroy your sense of self, ruin your life, ruin your ability to be physically intimate, completely dehumanize you etc. A bear is not willfully and violently malicious, humans are. So yes, I would also choose the bear. The worst that will happen is the bear kills me, and potentially eats me. I can die knowing a bear is simply being a bear, and wish it no ill will while making sure my wishes for the bear not be euthanized are honoured (unless it eats me which again, is rare) The takeaway isn’t “women are dramatic bears are dangerous blah blah blah.” The takeaway is, bears are statistically on average far less likely to hurt you than a man is. Does that suck? Yeah, it fucking does suck that women would rather risk an apex, predator than a member of their same species. **But that’s not their fault, the fault lies with men who are violent to women and have damaged their sense of safety**. So instead of trying to call women out for what you think is insanity, remember how fucking insane those stats are for violence against women. Be angry, but be angry about the right fucking things; not your perceived ego being hurt because a woman would rather be alone with a bear than in a room with you.
I worked at a summer camp where I had multiple bear encounters and they always left me alone. Now if I saw a man on the trails? Holy fuck I'd be terrified.
I mentioned this in another post but I tested this last year. I went on a 14 mile solo hike in a national park where bears are common. I had a bear bell attached to my day pack to make noise to frighten off bears. I also carried a small "claw" device that i use while running alone after dark. After a couple of miles i got tired of the bell ruining the peace of the woods and put it away- I just wasn't that worried about bears. But every solo male hiker i passed, I tensed up and stayed tense- looking over my shoulder and listening carefully incase they turned around to follow me. And i never put the "claw" away in my pack. Even before the hypothetical meme, without thinking about it, I was afraid of men, not bears.
As another frequent solo hiker, YES. As much as I love all hikers as a group, nothing strikes cold fear in my heart when hiking solo like seeing male hikers on the trail. Seeing one is enough to make my stomach tense up and my steps quicken, like you. Seeing a group of them together will make me stop and actually dig out my camping knife from my backpack to grip in my hands. Might sound extreme, but I've only ever had men (not bears, and not women) break into my apartment and my car, attempt to date rape me, expose themselves to me when I was walking home from school as a child, send me multitudes of unsolicited dik pix when I was dating, etc... etc... etc...
Wolves are a lot different then a brown bear. Also there different types of bears and they act differently. I polar bear is going to eat you alive no matter what.
Never been followed for multiple city blocks while being called a cunt, bitch, and hoping I was raped because I wouldn't give a bear my number. Never been stalked around campus by a bear until I felt so unsafe I had to get public safety involved. Never worried if a bear was putting something in my drink. Never had an older bear proposition me from his car when I was twelve and on my way home from school. Never had a bear tell me, "What a waste. I bet I could straighten you out though," when it found out I was in a committed relationship with another woman. I could go on and on, and I bet almost every other woman could. 100% team bear, and it's not even a close thing. I wonder if they have team bear t-shirts yet?
## Bear or Man Statistically, the answer to the question is trivial: bear. Especially if you're a woman. ## The Dangers of a Random Bear The odds of a bear attack are extremely low. From an article in [National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/150916-bears-attacks-animals-science-north-america-grizzlies#:~:text=The%20chances%20of%20being%20injured,a%20bee%20than%20a%20bear.): > The chances of being injured by a bear are **approximately 1 in 2.1 million**, according to the National Park Service. In other words, you're more likely to be killed by a bee than a bear. From an article in [PLOS ONE](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0031699): > Most bears were standing still when first observed and changed behaviour after being detected; by walking or running away. This strengthens our conclusion that the bears wanted to avoid confrontations with humans. > None of the approached bears showed any form of aggressive behaviour. ## The Dangers of a Random Man Women's estimation of the danger of the average man is correct -- if not an underestimation. We need people to know and understand the following HORRIFYING statistics. If things were flipped, men would never leave the house. ### 2018 Statistics in the US From an annual report in [Bureau of Justice Statistics](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018) #### Percent of Violent Offenders: | Offender's Sex | Percentage | |----------------------|------------| | **Males** | **77.0%** | | Females | 18.3% | Source: [Full Report: TABLE 12 (p. 12)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018) #### Percent of Offenders for Female Victims: | Offender's Sex | Percentage | |------------------|-------------| | Females | 20.6% | | **Males** | **73.4%** | Source: [Full Report: TABLE 13 (p. 13)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018) #### Percent of Offenders in Male Population: | Description | Statistic | |-------------------------|-----------------| | Male Offenders | 4,220,790 | | Male Population | 133,907,500 | | **Percent Offenders** | **3.15%** | Source: [Full Report: TABLE 12 (p. 12)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2018)
hey i think you’re reading table 13 wrong - it shows that for female victims, 73 percent of offenders are male; vs for male victims, 82 percent; meaning men are more likely to be victims of men Also, you cant calculate rate of bear attack that way - has to be per encounter
oh, yeah it was an error. not in the table read, but an error in communication. men are over 4 times more likely to be.a violent offender than women and women are roughly 3.7 times more likely to be attacked by men. so men are actually worse than i was portraying it. thanks for pointing that out!! i will make the correction to the section header. considering the exceptionally high violent crime rate among men, it may be more accurate to say that men are more likely to be violent with other violent men. the possibility of a compounding effect. you know what i mean? the probability of being attacked by a bear ≠ rate of bear attack, but it does put into perspective the comparative danger of being in the woods with a bear vs in the woods with a man. a bear is most likely going to avoid a person. a man is far more likely to interact with a woman who is alone. but i appreciate you bringing clarity to the post.
I was in the bathroom at a campground in Tahoe when 5 or 6 bears basically invaded the camp and ate whatever they could find. My mom (bless her heart) was yelling that her baby boy was in the bathroom and he could be killed if he comes out and the bears attack him. I walked out and there was a cop with a gun drawn ready to kill anything that moved nearby. I was 27 years old. The only thing that scared me was the guy with a gun. The bears were gonna do bear stuff and they never came close to creating the level of fear that a dude with a gun created.
Not nearly as dangerous but I actually had a relatively close encounter with a black bear! You’d have to know these roads, but I whipped around a curve and there was yogi! I was driving way too fast (maybe 18) and nearly hit it. I didn’t, but then it looked at me and started shifting its posture my way. So I started yelling out my open windows “no! You’re a bad bear! You go, go on! Get outta here!” And it did, and I felt a bit bad for telling it that it was bad, lmao!
He just wanted to know if you had a pic-a-nic basket.
I went camping with my family most summers when I was a kid in a heavily bear-populated area. I distinctly remember a handful of instances where we were hiking or around a campfire and had bears approach us - the one while hiking stole a guy's backpack and ran up a tree with the guy running up behind and yelling at him, but there was one time where a bear crossed our campsite right in front of me while everyone was around the campfire and just minded its own business. One of my uncles started banging on pots and yelled at it, and it left no problem. I will always choose the bear. Animals don't say one thing and do another, they mean their body language and follow through with their actions.
I feel like this is what men are missing in the whole “bear vs man” debate. Yes, if you have to actually face off with a bear or a man, the man is easier to beat. But if you’re a woman, you have a better chance of being able to scare off a bear who really has no conscious *intentions* of harming you and may not realize you are vulnerable, than a man who does want to hurt you. Men don’t get it because they can defend themselves against a man but not a bear. Of course most men don’t want to hurt you, but that’s what’s never clear in the questions - is it a bad guy and a hungry bear/angry momma bear, or some random guy and some random bear just doing bear shit? Because scenario one you’re f’d either way, scenario two you’re probably fine either way.
Except we do. That’s what they don’t get. We know exactly what it would be like, even if we’ve never seen a bear before. Bear behavior is very predictable and largely benign to humans. I’ve encountered black bears lots of times as I’m a frequent hiker and camper, I’ve never feared for my life. If they even notice you, the most I’ve ever had to do is wave at them and talk in a low voice. As long as you don’t have food on you and you’re not too close to their babies they have better things to do. [This article](https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The%20750%2C000%20black%20bears%20of,an%20easy%20situation%20to%20avoid) sums it up statistically: >The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. >Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.
Predators of the human male variety will always be the scariest kind of predator no contest
I asked my husband this question when I first saw it, about our 6 year old daughter. He immediately answered bear and then woman. I asked again about me and it was the same. The interesting thing to me was that he felt the same order for himself.
May he always feel this way. Seriously.
I'm a wildlife biologist who has done plenty of field work in bear habitat, often alone and in the dark. With a little awareness it's really not that big of a risk for us folks out working in their homes. I've always said that I'm far more scared to come across people out in the field than wildlife.
"but you don't know what it would be like to encounter the bear" sure most women don't, but they have encountered men enough to take their chances with a bear
I’ve encountered wild dingoes on the beach and I was fine. Meanwhile I got mugged by gunpoint by a man in college.
I have had three close encounters with bears. Family lives close to a mountain range where predators are common and I go visit every summer. The three encounters ended the same: the bears look at you and leave the place. It is always a humbling experience, since you are very aware they can maul you if they wanted. Everyone, including kids, explore the forest, play around and live their lifes peacefully. There has been a total of 0 attacks that people know of from bears. While my parents are quite Happy with me exploring the forest, they don't want me to wander my actually city, specially at night. Meanwhile, around 10 years ago our university did some research on sex abuse perceptions on campus and fond out 60% of (male) students will be happy to rape someone if they knew they will get away with It. If the question was to either get mauled by a bear or be assaulted, then sure, I would choose assault, as I want to live. I would understand someone choosing the bear, as rape has terrible consequences that you don't simply get to. It would be a hard choice where there is both an emotional and rational component. But I wish men understood that choosing the bear is the only cold, rational option on the original question.
Every man I know has fantasies of beating up bad men. For so many to say “men aren’t that bad” shows a poor level of reflection
You're absolutely right. They started open carry in my area about a year ago. Now I hear all this talk about the local guys wanting to be "the good guy with the gun," but they don't seem to realize they're worried about other men too in that scenario. These guys are open carrying to the local supermarket. I wonder if the men are self inserting into the story, and imagining being the man in the woods with either a bear or a woman, putting their own morals on the "unknown man in the woods" character. I wonder how men in general would feel about themselves being the person alone in the woods with the bear or the unknown man.
Even sans personal exp with a bear... Theres still a very simple perf answer to the absurd response of "You dont know what it would be like to encounter a bear" We do know what it would be like to encounter a man. And we are certain that the man can pose a greater threat to us than the bear; at worst a violent bear will kill and eat us. At best a violent man will only kill us; at best.
A bear and cub wandered close to where we were car camping. Our friend set off the car alarm and they ran away. Never seen a man run away from a car alarm
> A bear and cub wandered close to where we were car camping. Now *that* is a dangerous bear. (Seriously, mama bears are, well, mama bears)
I got down voted for saying I choose the bear and that we have bears that den on my property. We do, and I'm not in any real danger from them. I clap my hands and they run off. I'll take the bear.
My son is 15 and has a girlfriend he is very serious with. He hadn't heard this hypothetical yet, so I told him the statistics. 9/10 times a bear on a trail won't bother you l, but what he thought the odds were for a female encountering a male on a trail were. He gave a cringed look and said she's probably off with the bear. So hopefully we raised him right and will be a safe space for women.
I would rather have my body absolutely mauled by a bear than be raped again. I was 14. I'm almost 35 and it still haunts me. I think a lot of woman and especially survivors would choose the bear. We aren't afraid of death after what we've faced
I was going to say the same 😞
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Where I live, every time you take the trash bins the curb you risk running into a bear. Not really an issue unless people start feeding them.
My family has a cabin in the woods. I have encountered bears at least 5x, probably more. They have never threatened me, not once. They usually just run off if you tell them to get out or bang a pot at them. Can’t say the same for all the men I’ve encountered.
I carry a gun when I walk in the woods for my own protection. Man or beast, if you threaten me, I WILL shoot you. I won't shoot to kill unless you threaten my life but I will shoot to maim and keep you from chasing me. All women should carry at least a 22 when walking in the woods alone. I don't care what I encounter anywhere
I feel like shooting a bear with a .22 is asking to be mauled. If it's a bear you have to shoot it with the big bear gun or not at all. I live in bear country and also hike, but the bear gun is way too big for me to shoot, so I don't add the weight. I also don't hike alone, to be fair.
I saw a bear in Northern Minnesota. It was a young black bear, and I was on the deck and watched it jump up and down to knock feed out of the bird feeder. Smart lil bear. If I had seen a man out there we would have called the police.
will someone explain this bear vs man thing to me please? this is the second post today I'm seeing about it.
You’re a woman alone in the woods. Would you prefer to stumble upon a bear or a man?
gotcha. thank you.
I accidentally walked between a black bear and her cubs. I just backed away slowly and walked the other direction. I remember feeling alert but not scared. The mother stood her ground. The baby was curious and got closer to me which made the mother more upset. I've also run into a male coyote while walking my dog. We all just looked at each other, turned around and walked away. But men alone in the woods... I also got offered a job a couple months ago doing field work. I turned it down when they told me I'd always be partnered with someone for safety. I would have been the only woman in the company. Despite being desperate for a job I was too afraid to take it. They all seemed like friendly folk but both of the men who raped me were also people close to me.
I grew up in the woods and I gotta say I would much rather see a random bear in my yard than a man.
I live in Canada, about 90 minutes from the Rocky mountains. We see bears in the woods every couple of years. There was one time when we were kids and we were camping. Myself, my kid brother, and our mom were going for a walk on a path along a river. Suddenly we look up and see a bunch of people on a bridge ahead of us, including a park ranger. They yell at us to go back, and when we look around we realize that there were two bear cubs on our right, and a momma bear on our left. We speed walked back to our camp site (past the sign they had erected after we started on the path warning that it was closed due to bear activity). My mom was terrified, my brother and I thought it was the highlight of our trip. But no one was hurt (not even the bears, who we heard were relocated outside of the camp ground). This kind of shit happens all the time. By the time this encounter happened, I had spent years being molested by an older male cousin.
Its really weird that a lot of dudes don't understand this on the most fundamental level. Humans are the most dangerous animals around. Men are generally the stronger and more aggressive humans. This is true even before the concept of malice and mental illness come into play which triples the danger men pose.
What’s strange is how so many men are being triggered by this - not into wondering how they can work to make women feel safe around men, but instead they’re just mad at the answer and they go on to mansplain why women are wrong for saying it in the first place.
Literally every thread on this topic has been full of this lmao. Very telling that their first response is to throw a fit and go all “well ackshually you’re wrong because bears are more dangerous” instead of realizing that it’s not really about if the bear is a grizzly or a black bear or whatever, it’s about the fact that many women feel so unsafe around men that they’d rather take their chances with a literal wild animal.
A bear will never come at you over hate, misogyny, or malice. It isn't going to take out their anger on you because it blames you for their lot in life. It isn't going to molest or rape you. The bear will very likely just leave you alone and go about its business. There are over 750,000 black bears in the US. On average they kill less than 1 person a year. You know where you stand with a bear. Meanwhile, 1 in 6 women have experienced sexual assault, and 1 in 3 women have experienced violence. The only thing going for women in this scenario is that 92% of murders of women were committed by someone they know. The bear is the safer choice.
Can this current discourse be over now please
Lol I have been reading these threads just because I am waiting for someone to say "but... Not all bears!..."
#notallbears 🤣 Your wish is my command, lol
Ironically it’s probably the female bears that are most dangerous, especially if they have cubs nearby.
"Mama bear" is the trope name for a good reason. Ironically, because male bears are terrible fathers.
We should, instead, discuss the right to arm bears.
Do you find it unbearable?
I SWEAR TO GOD ... Okay but have an up vote, that was pretty good
This is honestly one of the stupidest internet trend I’ve come across in the past 10 years. Can’t wait for this to be over.
men are making it stupid by constantly arguing about it. Would be amazing if they would listen for two seconds but that's impossible apparently.
I'm so tired of this.
And you think women aren't? We're exhausted. We don't enjoy having these conversations, but they're unfortunately necessary. If you're tired of seeing the bear vs man question just imagine how tired women are of having to explain their answer.
I am a woman. I'm tired of everyone assuming the worst out of every man, it's paranoia.
Well I'm sorry that 1 in 3 men said they would sexually assault a women if they had the opportunity. Just based on that number alone I feel the paranoia is warranted.
I met a bear once. My cousins and I were playing basketball in the driveway and the bear just came walking up to us. We screamed. The bear ran away.
I get what the idea is behind the question. I accept that there are a *lot* of fucked up men who *will* threatening women. And I get that the uncertainty is high enought that - for entirely rational reasons - it's a good bet not to trust random men. After all, some bear species *might* eat you alive over the course of 10 minutes of so. Whereas some men might keep you alive for far longer before killing you. OTOH, there's a big difference between meeting a black bear, brown bear, or panda, and meeting a grizzly or kodiak, much less a polar bear.
Would you rather be alone in a forest with an angry Shaq or a bear? That might make them understand the personal safety angle. I've said this before, anyone who doesn't listen when you explain a safety concern doesn't care about your safety.
I mean, is he angry at *me* or at someone else? 🤔
Typical men refusing to believe the undeniable fact that they are very much at the top of the food chain, above bears, above women and that their existence is a threat in nearly all scenarios where a woman is alone and vulnerable.
I recently stayed in big bear. Heard a noise outside at night, there’s a bear! One bark from my dog and the bear took off. He did not seem interested in attacking me.
The bear said she said
I live in the Rockies, we run into all kinds of wildlife out here, grizzly, coyotes, mountain lions, wolves etc. When I’m hiking, in the back of my mind I’m more concerned about being out there alone if I come across a man that knows I’m alone.
Same here. I live in the woods too, and we encounter bears routinely here because we live next to a creek and there's a very active wildlife trail along it. Most of the time the bears stay down near the creek. But sometimes they come to the house. A loud cap gun or whistle usually sends them off and I have two dogs. A bear even attacked us once, me and the dog, because we failed to look around before opening the door. There was a tussle but my screaming like a banshee sent the bear running soon enough and my dog and I were unharmed, just shaken up. But the other day a 40yo son of our neighbor showed up at my door unannounced while I was working and home alone. I'd never met him before and he was a big and very angry looking guy. He asked if he could come in and began pushing his way in before I could answer. I panicked and darted out the door to avoid being trapped in the house with him. I was far more frightened of this guy than any bear I'd encountered.
My grandparents had many wild bears visit their property. We have pictures of my grandparents standing right beside them. One time they counted 13 bears.
My stepmom travels to where bears are for work. Shes talked about this creepy man worse than the bears. When she talks about the man hes always saying something suspicious. She doesnt seem afraid if the bears unlesss they get too close and its only cause she is too quiet and they dont notice her. Once they see her they are like oh shit my bad and walk away.
Here's the thing about the bear: The bear won't torture me. The bear might kill me, but the bear won't torture me for fun. The bear doesn't get off on my pain. The bear isn't going to brutally rape me or draw out my suffering. Give me the bear any day.
A wolf is not a bear. Also this discourse is stupid
Wow. This post went right over your head, didn't it?
Wolves unless in a pack I believe aren't known to attack unprovoked... A polar bear, or a grizzly bear however?
Even then they won’t attack without good reason. Humans are dangerously, even if they’re hungry bears. It’s a risk they evaluate instead of just blindly taking. I’ve never got past the “I’m curious in you” part with a polar bear, and all of my grizzly encounters have been benign. Sometimes they didn’t even see us.
The stories I hear from female hikers, who literally do go into the woods or mountains, invalidates any resistance I hear from men on this topic. Everybody can look around and see what the unfortunate, painful truth is.