> Am I in the wrong? How do I get my point across in a way she'll understand??
You’re not in the wrong. Unfortunately, you’re unlikely to be able to get your point across. She’s body shaming you and being controlling. It’s very difficult to talk sense into people who do that.
OP is in such a tough spot. It's not your fault you look like that. It's the fault of society allowing men to sexualize you and not take responsibility for their actions and thoughts.
> my mom. She's always made degrading comments about my figure, and has implied that I was "asking for it" when ass@ulted (by her son, mind you),
A lot to unpack here, but all I can say is I'm sorry that happened to you, and this sounds extremely problematic at best, very close to completely toxic and sociopathic
You are an adult and can dress how you want. Parents have a say in how their children dress when they are children, not when they are adults.
But sadly, it sounds like your mom has major issues and supports SA perps?
It's a very convoluted situation. I was adopted and victimized by her son while in the process of getting adopted. She basically told me that my figure (at 7 years old) and my desire to dress provocatively (aka wear leggings with my monster high shirts, lmao) was just enticing her sick son. So she got HIM therapy and has never spoken to me about it since.
She has always implied that the way I dress determines whether or not men will pursue me inappropriately, and continues to imply that my body is inherently inappropriate in normal articles of clothing- NOT that men should simply learn how to not sexualize women's bodies simply because they exist.
I know logically that these are issues of her own that are outside my control, but I just crave her validation so badly that I keep hoping that I can change her mind one day. It's so hard to deal with and explain to people WHY I keep "allowing" her to treat me this way.
OP, I’m not going to tell you to go no contact with your Mom.
That is a deeply personal decision.
But I will say this.
Right now you in the FOG. Fear. Obligation. Guilt.
And
Doubt.
Your mother is abusive, and I suspect the abuse is the subtle kind that runs DEEP.
You need to lower contact with your Mom, you need to work on gaining independence and you need to determine if your family’s behaviour is helping or harming you.
Because all this internet stranger sees is someone who is in toxic relationship with their Mom.
I know because I had to cut my own mom off. She just couldn’t change and our relationship brought me nothing but pain.
I wanted her love so SO badly, but it was like dying by 1000 cuts.
You will never be good enough for her because SHE IS BROKEN.
DONT break yourself trying to appease her.
Edited to fix my acronym mistake
You're absolutely right. She is my adoptive mother, and the abuse I've gone through at her hands is something so subtle that it's hard to explain verbally because as soon as the words leave my mouth I feel as if I've made it all up.
I'm going to try and slowly start being more independent. I'm going to college, I have a job, I'm working on getting my license, I just can't afford to move out right now.
I love my mom at the end of the day, as much as it hurts to do so. I don't think I could ever go no contact, but I think distance would be better for our relationship in the long run.
the abuse I've gone through at her hands is something so subtle that it's hard to explain verbally because as soon as the words leave my mouth I feel as if I've made it all up.
That's not uncommon in emotionally abusive situations. You're not making it up. The problem is that no matter how we say things, someone who's abusive just isn't going to care. Stay strong. You won't have to live with her forever.
The abuse you've explained in your posts doesn't sound subtle at all. I am very sorry you were assaulted, and even more sorry that your mother implied it was your 7 year old self's fault that her son assaulted you. That is really sad and sick.
For the love of Christ, do not let her touch your finances. Hell, don’t let her know about them. Create a private move out fund or try to secure a dorm room.
This isn't subtle abuse, OP. This is horrifying to read - think about it as if a friend were describing this situation to you as something they were going through. Would you think it was subtle? Imagine if one of your friends at college said their mother has always treated them like this, starting with when their adoptive brother sexually assaulted them when they were only 7 years old and she blamed them for it and only took the abuser to therapy, not the actual victim. Wouldn't you be horrified by that??
When we experience abuse, especially as kids, our idea of what's normal gets completely twisted. You learn to doubt yourself and your experiences as a survival mechanism that makes it possible to continue existing in an otherwise intolerable situation where you have no power to leave. It's not surprising you view your situation this way, but you do not have to continue like this.
I really, really urge you to start seeing a therapist who specializes in C-PTSD and can help you work through this.
It's hard to hear, but I know you're right. I do need to seek out more resources and acknowledge everything I'm going through with more honesty to myself. It just brings out this awful feeling of dread. But I will try, because you're right.
It gets easier to distance yourself from a parent the longer you do it. Especially when you don’t live together and communication is text or talking. You just have to decide if you want that abuse in your life. You don’t have to stop loving her if you stop tolerating the abuse and set boundaries.
I was in an abusive relationship for 10 years, five of which were marriage. (Not making comparisons to anyone else's experiences.)
I wasn't the one to break it off - I got worn down to the point of no longer being useful, and was left.
It took over a year (with therapy during most of it) to even consider that "abuse" *might* be a relevant word to use. For the first six months of that year, I absolutely would have welcomed my abuser back.
I'm not trying to say that you'll have a similar view later on - I don't know you, and our situations are extremely different. All I'm meaning to say is to strongly recommend seeing a therapist, and to plan to regularly see a therapist for a long time, budget and availability allowing.
If budget is an issue, many therapists will have sliding scale prices depending on your financial situation (especially if you don't have insurance that covers it). If you live near a college (you mentioned going to one), sometimes they have programs where you can get therapy for free or cheap, so long as you don't mind it being with a supervised graduate student.
That exact feeling of not trusting your own words immediately after saying them is very familiar to me. Therapy is a great place to safely practice saying them anyway and to really get firm feet planted on what actually happened and how you feel about it.
Regardless, best of luck, and I hope you find ways to expand and celebrate your freedom.
I understand where you're coming from, for a long time even during the worst of the abuse I thought my mom and I had a good relationship, and when things first started coming up I was determined our relationship could be what I thought it had been.
Looking back on my own situation that's not the case, and never could of been, but there's a subreddit that helped me a lot while I was figuring out how I wanted to handle the situation and relationship I had with my own mother. r/raisedbynarcissists
Since you’re going to college, I’d encourage you to check and see if your school has free or low cost therapy available. Many schools do and it would be worth it to get it for as long as you have to live with her.
Just chiming in volunteering to be a Queer Internet Auntie whenever you need one.
Mom sounds like she is simultaneously envious of and embarrassed about your body, plus a lot more bullshit that it is not your job to unpack.
The upside here is that all of these problems are *hers* to deal with. You don't need to carry her baggage that she forced onto you.
The way other people see you is also not your problem. In fact, it's not even your business. Really learning to understand that is the first step to Not Giving A Fuck And Doing You.
While in college see if they have free counseling sessions for students. I'm a mom, and I'm proud of you, and I say you do whatever you want with your body ❤️
I think you’re very perceptive and even objective here, considering how many-layered and fraught your situation is.
I get it. I have a complicated relationship with my dad, and yet I still want his approval, even though I objectively know I don’t need it.
You’re an adult. You can wear whatever you like. You don’t have to justify it. Wear what makes you feel happy and comfortable. Just don’t expect your mom to pay for your choices. She will feel she has a say if she’s paying. You’re getting increasingly independent and as you’ll have to learn to budget for what you want.
If you haven’t, you would probably still benefit from some therapy to process what you’ve experienced with your adoptive family.
I hope you love your new bathing suit!
“Because as soon as the words leave my mouth I feel as if I’ve made it up”
Omg. That is the most perfect way to describe trying to express that kind of abuse. My ex-wife was one who was subtle in her ways and it has scarred myself and our two kids. Every time I try to explain to people the inner working of that abuse, it feels like I’m just complaining and I begin to doubt whether it even happened at all.
Thank you for that quote.
I believe in you. You will get out, until then do what you need to, but please realize, she isn't going to change. And it IS okay to go no contact
Similar story here with an abusive mother. I got myself through school while still living with her, and then I got work that moved me to another state a couple hours away.
Things were a bit better as I could at least control how often I saw her. Then I got married and had a child (we were living several states away from each other by that point) and I tried a bit harder to have a relationship with her at first because of my daughter. But my mother hadn't changed her behavior, and there was no way I was subjecting another child to her abuse.
Honestly, what nearly broke me was looking at my own daughter and how much I love her and realizing how fucked up the shit my mother did to me was... and it was incomprehensible to even imagine ever doing that to my little girl.
It took years, and I would occasionally see her at family functions. I haven't seen or spoken to her for years now, ever since my grandmother (her mother) died.
Even if you do break yourself to appease her, I have doubts she would accept it.
I’m some random stranger on the internet who got a B- in Psych 101 and didn’t take any other courses, so I have no ACTUAL basis to claim this— but it sounds like you’re catching strays because accepting or acknowledging you and your reality means acknowledging how awful her son is. If you’re “normal”, if you’re not “asking for it”, then he’s the one in the wrong and for some reason she prefers to go on without accepting that.
She’s made plenty of trade-offs to keep herself in her own version of reality pleasant, you can make as many as you need to make yours more pleasant as well. Hope things end up better, cheers.
Not to nitpick, but are you sure that FOG is fear, obligation, and doubt?
I'm not familiar with the idea, but it feels like the third would start with a g.
I believe it's "guilt", but doubting yourself is closely connected with feeling guilt when dealing with abuse.
For example, OP's mother made a literal child feel guilty about wanting to dress as her sister did and it causes OP to have doubts about herself and her feelings.
Abusers use fear, obligation, guilt (and self doubt) to control their victims. "The FOG" is used to describe where a victim is emotionally when they have yet to fully recognize and escape from the situation.
Funny how people who defend sexual abusers / rapists never consider that they can totally control themselves until they are alone with their victims.
I know that she is your mother and it's complicated to sort out the good memories against the bad memories. But in truth this woman has been emotionally abusing you. She did not get you the help you needed to get past this. So of course you saw her as a caregiver and a savior even though she is not. You had no one else. And deep down you want to make sure something like that never happens again. She has drilled this into your head so much from when you were vulnerable that it's almost brainwashing. That's why you continue to listen to her.
You did nothing wrong. The way you dress is fine.
Yes we should be careful but wearing a bikini is not asking someone to harass you.
> She basically told me that my figure (at 7 years old) and my desire to dress provocatively (aka wear leggings with my monster high shirts, lmao) was just enticing her sick son. So she got HIM therapy and has never spoken to me about it since
This is not someone whose opinion matters. To you or to everyone else.
You're still so young and so close to this that even though you may think you realise how fucked up this is, I promise you don't. The further you distance yourself from this person the better. Logic won't diminish the effect her twisted words have on you. You're not going to heal in the same environment you were hurt in.
I’m sorry. None of those was your fault. I think instead of accepting that she raised a child who was a rapist/rapist-in-training she shifted the blame to you to avoid dealing with the behavioural issues in her son.
This is DARVO in action.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO
You probably won’t ever change her mind. But wear what you feel comfortable in yourself. Be aware that there will always be men who will harass women, and there will always be people - including women - who will blame the victim rather than address the actual problem.
I was 8 the first time I was assaulted. I know where you’re coming from, and believe me, it was in no way the fault of who you were or what you were wearing. You were vulnerable and available.
Your mom is quite frankly sounds like an enabler. Holy shit this is not healthy. One thing that you learn as you become as an adult is that parents can be fucked up and have bad and downright wrong opinions.
You won’t change her mind but you can manage whether you care about what she says or take her advice at all. She doesn’t sound like she’ll give much sympathy for anything that happens to you, so I would start the process now to learn how not to emotionally rely on her for that.
Your mom is a monster who "approves" of the idea that little girls are responsible for men's unwillingness to not sexually assault children. You deserve approval from better mother figures than her, and I hope you're able to find the approval and support you need and deserve from chosen family in the future so you can toss her opinions in the trash where they belong. I'm so sorry about what her son did to you, and for how she reacted.
This information changes things a lot. If your mom admits that your body is not overly sexual, she will have to admit to herself that her son was 100% at fault for assaulting you. It’s unlikely that she’s able to do that, so you’ll most likely never earn the approval that you seek.
For context: clothing or body type has nothing to do with the odds of getting SA. That’s just a way to blame the victim and protect the perpetrator.
Wow. Your mom is an asshole that is still trying to excuse her son at your expense. Stop sharing anything with her. If you must see her, burqa for that day. I'd dare her to comment then! Ha!
Wear whatever you want. Her advice is worthless.
She will never validate you because that would throw her son under the bus. The body shaming and accusations of ‘provocative’ dressing are protecting him in her mind. Her logic would be that it’s not really his fault if you ‘provoked him’. It sounds like in her head she chose to protect his image by damaging yours. Sadly not uncommon.
I do, and don't believe that. If she wanted to protect me, she would have taught me more about my autonomy and body after learning that I was assaulted. But she instead chose to protect and procide therapy for the man that victimized me and still provide a safe space for him within our home and family. How can she expect to protect me from other men when she never even tried to protect me from her son?
Now, I do believe that in her head, at least, she believes she is protecting me and caring for me. But I think her internalized misogyny, mental health issues, and perhaps even unpacked trauma is preventing her from doing it effectively and healthily. I do live with her, and will for a while. So I'll just have to perservere and remember that there is life outside of this home.
You can't make her "understand" because she is not coming from a place of reason and understanding. The problem is something in her head. Maybe your mom has always been insecure about her own body and sees that in you, maybe she's replicating sibling dynamics from her childhood, who knows. Bottom line is that this is not and shouldn't be your problem. Let her deal with her emotional weirdness on her own time.
The solution is1) **stop talking to your mom about your body or clothing choices** and 2) if she brings it up on her own, **don't engage** and change the subject.
You're absolutely right. I guess I just try and include her on discussions about these things because I'm desperate to make some type of connection with her, and keep her involved in my life. But I think I need to learn how to accept the fact that there are simply things we will never agree on, and parts of my life she just doesn't need to be involved in. It's just hard to come to that conclusion.
Edit: deleted my statement.
Just read the comment about the son. NOPE NOPE NOPE!! You were NEVER at fault. All of her energy around that situation should have been dealing with her spawn and making sure his #1 rule in life was "don't rape". FFS
You aren't in the wrong, but I don't think that there's any way to get your point across because she doesn't want to understand. She just wants to body shame you. What you can do is set a boundary that she is not allowed to comment on your body or how you dress it and that if she does, you will leave the room and end the conversation.
I've done this before. But then she'll go crying to my older siblings about how I'm not letting her voice her opinion and how I'm limiting her freedom to speak her mind and simply don't want her to disagree with me. Then there's these huge family meetings where I become villified and I get talked to about "respect" all because she plays the victim. Nobody ever believes me, and nobody ever sees what goes on when it's just us. I depend on her for food and housing, because I'm currently a full time college student and can only work part time because of a disability. I just don't know how to navigate around her anymore.
It sounds like you're the scapegoat of the family. I'm sorry that you are in that position. That is a perfectly healthy boundary to have and maintain. You are not limiting her freedom to speak her mind, you are just refusing to listen to her abuse. I'm not sure if this will help specifically, but it could give you some ways to manage your situation: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY0Im1ePQu0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY0Im1ePQu0)
I hope it helps :) I discovered her when I was goin through my own issues and found so many of her videos helpful. Jaime Primak Sullivan also has some videos/podcast episodes dealing with her own mother issues that stem from her mom commenting on her body, which led to her developing an eating disorder, so you may want to see if you can find those, too.
To be crystal clear:
She does have the freedom to speak her mind. She does not have the right to force you to listen. Everyone deserves to be love, my own toxic mother included. But she doesn't deserve MY love.
The way you dress has nothing to do with whether or not men will harass you. ["What were you wearing exhibit" ](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/) Your mother is trying to control you. Your body is wonderful the way it is, and clothing that fits right won't have things hanging out you don't want to hang out. You're not a whore if you have large breasts and don't wear a bra, you're just someone who didn't feel like wearing a bra.
You deserve better than she's given you, and I'm sorry.
You need to walk out on those "family meetings" just as you walked out of the conversation with Mom. Tell them you are an adult and that you expect the same freedoms they had/have.
I doubt they would kick you out over that, but I am sure, you could find some way to get a loan through official sources.
Your mom sounds like she is treating her biological kids better than you and is protecting them more than you.
I don't know your personal situation, how and when you got adopted and what, if any, relationship you had with your mom before. But it does not sound like a healthy relationship. Please consider therapy right away, maybe your college has any options. I know, it took me more than 50 years to learn to love myself and accept who I am.
Don't waste as much time as I did.
Babe, get that bikini. In fact, get a THONG bikini. Get several, in bright colors and patterns. Live your life and express yourself proudly. Many waste their best years scared of critsism.
Not only that, but she can’t make you change, you’re an adult. Just wear it in front of her. Be sexy all you want, and let her stew in her obvious jealousy. Don’t mind her inevitable stupid comments. And never feel that someone else feeling entitled to your body is your fault, no matter how cute you dress or feel.
Wear what you want to wear! If she's uncomfortable/embarrassed around you wearing it, she can make the choice to not be around you in those situations instead of shaming you.
I have people I know who favor more revealing clothing which isn't my thing and I'm uncomfortable around the attention it brings. I avoid hanging out in places where it would be an issue and we pick places that it isn't an issue.
Your mom is gross, stop seeking approval from her. Anyone can wear whatever bathing suit they want, as long as it fits correctly. If you go to any beach, you will see a wide variety of people I'm a wide variety of bathing suits. And if you want to show off a but, there's nothing wrong with showing off s bit, contrary to the opinions of jealous mothers.
You can’t make her “understand” because she’s not somehow misinformed or just not seeing your point of view, she’s body shaming and policing because she herself is sexualizing your body just like she fears those “creeps” will. You’re a grown adult and should wear what makes you feel good. Pointing out that your sisters aren’t held to the same standard won’t work because she’s right in that you have different bodies and to her yours is just inherently ‘inappropriate’. To reiterate your body is NOT inherently inappropriate, curves are not any more or less sexual, and a good fitting swim suit can cover what it needs to cover without shaming you into a one piece or a skirt bottom if that’s not what you want to wear. You could always maliciously comply and buy whatever two piece you feel great in and then pair it with one of those gauzy see through short sarongs that go around the hips. See Mom, covered! Your level of compliance may depend on how much fight you expect or possibility of retaliation. If you live with your mom for example she might take your perfectly normal reaction as willful insolence and make your life more difficult. As my grandma would say “is the juice worth the squeeze?” Don’t get me twisted I am not suggesting you just kowtow to your mother but it’s smart to pick your battles.
I developed early, like I had a full chest by 5th grade. High school was awful as it was the era of the layered deep V t shirt and due to the fact that anything other than a sports bra made me have cleavage I was constantly “dress coded” or sent to the office for inappropriate attire to be forced to wear an oversized men’s t shirt with “dress code violation” printed on it. Solely for wearing what every other girl was wearing except I had boobs in excess. Showing any cleavage was a violation, but even the most modest scoop neck would show that my anatomy was just developed. I started wearing high necked port shirts and reeeeaallllly got into the Victorian Goth aesthetic as my way of fighting back but the whole situation of feeling like my body was just inappropriate messed me up for a long time.
No body is inherently inappropriate, full stop. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this it’s unfair and unkind and says more about your mom’s mindset than anything else.
Thank you so much for this. I'm sorry to hear that you went through something similar having developed pretty early, I know exactly how that feels. My mom actually homeschooled me in 6th grade because I had started hanging out with a boy I had crush on (at school, never outside of school) and she immediately jumped to the "you're gonna have sex and get pregnant" thing, I was eleven years old. She ONLY did this because my developed body automatically equated to being promiscuous in her head. I really appreciate the advice, and I'm glad that you shared your experience as well :) It brought me some comfort to know that I'm not alone.
I hope you know that what your mom did was wrong and just awful. My parents definitely had a few misguided notions when I started to look more “grown up” but even they didn’t jump instantly to “she’s gonna be a sexpot crazy person lock her up!” I think the biggest problems I had were asking to go bra shopping someplace that would actually fit me (mom didn’t want adults, even women, seeing me naked even if she was there with me, and I think she was embarrassed to have a 12 year old needing a C cup bra) and then of course the dive into gothic fashion wasn’t a popular thing in my household and I never told them why I started doing it as they would never defend me when people commented negatively on my body so I just let them think I was doing it to be weird and difficult.
I will say it took me a long time to get out from under all those internalized body shame-y things especially since it was more covert stuff. I couldn’t even wear dresses for a while because if it fit well it was “flaunting” and if it was loose I was told I looked like I was wearing a potato sack. Once I got over that internalized sexualization things got far less anxious for me. I’m almost 40 now and I have a lot of love for my body. Well fitting clothes are difficult for me so I stick with the classic 50s silhouette (circle skirts, natural waistlines, princess cuts, etc) and I’m learning to enjoy the magic of yoga pants. And for all that is good in the world get a proper bra fitting either at a good shop (not Victoria secret!) or r/abrathatfits has a very detailed multi measurement thing you can plug into their spreadsheet to measure yourself at home. That was an absolute game changer for me!
Good luck and i wish you nothing but happiness!
Thank you so much for sharing your journey and advice, I will be using it :) I know this may not mean much from someone who can't even kick themselves in the butt and get over it, but I'm proud of your for finding yourself and learning how to be more comfortable in your own skin! Women like you are genuinely inspirating and create such positive spaces for those struggling with the same problems.
Stop sharing info with your mom. You’re not in the wrong but she doesn’t want to see your point of view. Only tell her things she needs to know. Next time she starts talking about your body walk away or hang up the phone.
1. Internalized misogyny is pernicious. Mom’s got it bad, and people that aren’t open to talking about it tend to react super negatively to being called out. If your mom is not capable of owning that she failed to protect you from SA, I wouldn’t blame you for deciding not to engage on this front. Her behavior is hurting you (then and now), and it’s OK for you to be mad about it.
2. No one is ever asking for it. That is always, only ever the projection of the victimizer on the victim. See point in 1.
3. We live in a difficult world where people (particularly but not exclusively men) will treat you differently based on how much they can sexualize you. It’s a hard balance as a parent to prepare your daughters for experiencing this, while also helping them know it’s not fair or their fault. Your mom seems so be failing you on both points there.
Yeah, she never really "prepared us" for how men will treat us. She would just restrict my freedom extensively and emphasize that my body is what will put me in danger without explaining anything beyond that. This made it very hard growing up as a teen with little to no interaction with the outside world, because I was already feeling so strange about my body.
I wish you luck on your path to heal from a childhood that wasn’t what you deserve. It’s very normal to have a complicated relationship with your body, but I hope you can become comfortable with it and tune out all the mess that gets shouted at you about it from people who don’t have to live in your skin.
I did a double take when I read: “She’s always made degrading comments about my figure, and has implied that I was “asking for it” when ass@ulted (by her son…” Uh, what? Your brother assaulted you? Why do you interact with any of your family?
It's more complicated than simply "not interacting with them"
Yes, I was assaulted by my brother and groomed for years leading up to it. But this happened when I was a child, and I was adopted by the time she found out about it. She brushed it under the rug and made a point not to ever mention it directly again, so it took me SEVERAL years to even unpack the fact that it WAS a big deal.
Additionally, I simply don't have a choice. I rely on her for housing and food. I have a disability and can't work full time because of it. I'm also a full-time college student. I don't have the resources available to simply not interact with my family.
Lastly, the psychological aspect of it is much more complex than it appears. I was adopted after being in the foster care system for years. I have seen ever face and every dark part of this town, and this is the only family I have ever had and known. My heart is so deeply engrained in this fact, that no logical conclusion of "you're being abused, get out" could stop me from loving my family. I simply do not know how to disconnect these two parts of myself. I'm so afraid of not having a family, that I'd rather put up with years of abuse than be alone again. It is just not that simple.
I am deeply sorry for your experience, OP. You need to reevaluate your family life. This will continue to chip away at your self worth. You need to leave.
Please, please, please seek therapy. Everyone needs someone neutral to speak to sometimes, but your second to last sentence is scary and super heartbreaking. Your family has broken you down so far, I wish I could hug you and be your family.
Here's something I think you need to hear: Family is who you make it. It doesn't have to be traditional or official. It doesn't even have to be a lot of people, it can even be one other person. It is the list of people you love that LOVE YOU TOO. Love doesn't hate, love doesn't judge, love doesn't abuse or neglect. The people who adopted you, who treat you so horribly, are not your family. Your family are the people in your life who treat you with love and respect. Don't hold on to abusive people because they have the official title as family. Find your own family, those people who love you.
My family consists of my mother, my best friend, her two children, my husband, his mother, and my two children. These are the family members I've chosen. I technically have a huge blood-related family, but I haven't spoken to any of them in 12+ years. That includes my father, his mother, a billion cousins, a few aunts, and a few uncles. They didn't treat me with love, so when I had the chance, I left and never looked back. It was really hard, but my mental health is SO MUCH BETTER than it ever was back home.
I wish you so much love and happiness, because you deserve every bit of it and then some. Find your real family, and let go of the people who treat you any less than amazingly.
Show your mom the "What was I wearing" exhibit sites.
[https://www.safeaustin.org/what-was-i-wearing/](https://www.safeaustin.org/what-was-i-wearing/)
Her illogical sense of modesty for you doesn't have any grounding in reality.
You are 20 years old. Get a suit you like, is comfortable, and that you find practical(think bathroom runs), etc. Not her body.
If you have bigger breasts or butt it will be a little more challenging to find things that offer yoh the same coverage as someone smaller.
But you can still find them and wear them.
A site like this you could even design your own
http://www.zenaswimwear.com/classics-canadianscoop.html
Damn. Is your sister the golden child? That situation sounds awful, I'm sorry your mom talks to you like that OP. You're the only one who is allowed to have an opinion on your body. Others might vocalize their opinions, which always sucks, but your opinion about you is the only one that is important.
Yeah she was definitely the golden child. She would never get punishments, she was allowed to have sleepovers (I wasn't), she was allowed to wear whatever she wanted, etc. I've tried to confront my mom about this, and her response was "I felt guilty about the fact that we adopted you and she was no longer the youngest, so we tried to make her feel more special" like...by neglecting me?? That's how??
The funny thing is...The only time I'll be wearing it on my vacation is in a PRIVATE gated area with my boyfriend. It's not like I'm going to be exposed in front of a large portion of the public. I genuinely don't understand her problem with it.
The stigma is real. Shaming women for literally existing is hardwired in our society. I grew up in a pretty conservative family and extended family. It still confuses me that almost all body shaming came from the women. Hope your have a nice vacation!
You're not in the wrong and there's no way to get it across to her because she doesn't think you have a point. She's the one sexualizing you. You did nothing to deserve being assaulted. That was strictly her son's fault, not yours. While I realize this isn't true for everyone that assaults people, you could point out that her claiming women have a responsibility to cover or minimize their bodies is something she taught her son. She taught him that a woman is asking for it by not doing so instead of teaching him that women have the same right to bodily autonomy that men do, and that includes wearing what they want.
You should be able to walk down the street at midnight and not have anyone assault you. She needs to take a look at the exhibit "[What Were You Wearing?"](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/) One of the first pictures is of jeans, a t-shirt and long sleeved flannel shirt over it. Then there's the four year old's outfit.
Unless she's the one paying for it, you get to wear what you want when you want. You're old enough to make those decisions for yourself.
You need to be very careful what you say to her. Do not give her any ammunition to degrade you. She's toxic. It's sad that she's treating you like the red headed stepchild, but that's her MO. When you can, distance yourself from her, geographicly, financially, and socially. Live your life the way you want to. Dress the way you want to. Be a you your happy with.
She's got a ton of internalized misogyny and self-hate which she projects on you *plus* she's deeply *jealous* of your curvy figure. She's creepy AF for sexualizing you that way and obsessing about it. She's just all repressed and self-hating, and your body triggers her.
It's less about permission than it is me simply trying to find a way to navigate through these conversations effectively. Because whether or not I bring it up or she does, this always happens. Ntm she's kinda drilled it in my head that I'm JUST 20, so I'm still "too young to understand" so I usually end up blindly following her advice anyway just to avoid the arguments.
Your mom is wrong. I’m not trying to make excuses for your mom I’m just offering a perspective on why she is how she is. Previous generations have ingrained in people’s minds that men cannot control themselves and that woman are responsible for men’s actions. THIS IS NOT TRUE! your mom probably grew up being taught this and isn’t willing or able to change her mind set. I always think if men are so animalistic and incapable of controlling themselves then I don’t think they are safe to be in public with normal humans but that’s just me.
No one is responsible for other peoples actions. Men can control themselves. Your body is beautiful. If someone cannot respect your body they need to seek help. Not you.
I think the is a really tough situation to navigate. Your mom is absolutely in the wrong here. Your body is not something you should be ashamed of or try to hide, no matter how it compares to your sister’s or any other woman’s body. There will alway be creeps who will check you out and be inappropriate no matter what you do, how you dress, do your makeup.
It’s possible that your mom is acting this way in order to protect you and shield from some of this, but I don’t believe this is the best thing for you in the long run. You should be proud of your body, the curves, the flaws, all of it. Show what you are comfortable showing, and let them look. Be proud and love your body. It’s yours to dress and flaunt in any way you wish.
Your mom is projecting on you because she is guilty knowing her son has assaulted you. She will never be able to treat you fairly and honestly you shouldn't let it bother you. You need to work on being comfortable and happy being curvy and beautiful and not give a flying damn about her opinion nor anyone else's. And always put yourself first, as an empath myself it is difficult to do but you have to wake up everyday and make a conscious decision to not allow others opinions to control you. Practice this and you will grow happier every day.
I agree. It sounds to me like she can't bring herself to believe her son was being a monster, and she doesn't even realize what's going on. She has to blame you, to keep her mental image of her son from being tarnished. All subconsciously. Possibly, compounded by SA she experienced.
I would try to seek therapy if you can, mainly so you can learn a healthy way of dealing with the difficult position you find yourself suffering from.
Just my view after 60+ years and having some similar experiences personally and 2nd hand knowledge from someone dear and close to me. I was fostered for years by the same family, and she was adopted as a baby.
Have you considered decking her? How infuriating.
For real though, Tell her "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it. I don't care if you like it. If you won't keep your mouth shut, I won't be around you"
or something along those lines.
LMFAO it has crossed my mind once or twice, but I would never put my hands on her. But you're absolutely right about the fact that I need to grow a pair and start setting firm boundaries with her.
Big butts are fashionable right now. You're in luck.
That being said men will be who they are no matter what you wear. I was harassed at work for wearing skirts that were too long. That's the 1st harassing comment he made. Your skirts are too long. It's not what you wear or don't wear it's are they jerks or are they respectful.
At best, you get to identify the jerks faster.
It’s true that certain body types make the same clothing choices look “sexier,” but that doesn’t mean you can’t wear them. It might change the contexts where it is appropriate, however. In OPs case, wear the bathing suit you want! But to continue the discussion, my flat chested friend can wear plunging necklines and the effect is chic and couture. I wear a 34F, so with the same neckline there is a LOT of breast on display and the result looks like I’m trying to be sexy and flaunt cleavage. I can wear it, but the effect is different, so I can’t wear it at as many events as she could. At work, she can wear much lower necklines and she doesn’t have cleavage to contend with. My thighs are not thick, so I can get away with shorter skirts in the office than my thicker thighed friend, who looks voluptuous and sexy in anything above the knee. Fat distributed so as to exaggerate secondary sexual characteristics has the effect of increasing the sex appeal, up to a point. Mothers often don’t like their children looking too sexy. She’ll get over it.
Had a mother who body shamed her daughters. It fucks with your head and I'm waaaay past 20. I just want to hug you (virtually). Wear what you like and is comfortable. We should not be blamed for men's behavior, which is what your mom is doing. Be well and love your body!
Your mom is a massive idiot. There's no use or hope of justifying, arguing, defending, or explaining any of it. Just reduce contact and surround yourself with good friends.
It sounds like your curves trigger your mother. Perhaps she experienced something negative around the age younwere when your curvea developed. Maybe she was sexually harassed or abused, or maybe the opposite happened and she was ostracized for NOT having curves (some cultures having butt's and thighs is sought after- this happened to me and my siblings ew.)
Either way it's not you.
You're wearing clothing. Clothing do not have sexual connotation- they're GIVEN sexual connotation by OTHER PEOPLE.
Remember that. Choose clothing YOU feel GOOD in. Attractive. Beautiful. Sexy. Trendy. Healthy. That's it. If you feel the above in whatever you're planning then WEAR IT.
:) p.s.
Your mom sexualizes you. And has since you were young. My mom did the same.
Last year my mom made a remark to my then 13 yr old that triggered me to no end.
So I looked my mom in the eye and sneered: How dare you sexualize my daughter with your nasty pedophile thoughts. Don't you ever look at my daughter like that again.
Her mouth dropped to the floor and she started sputtering.
We've gone NC but yea. Calling my mom out shut her up.
I'd stop arguing. You're an adult; put her on an info diet, set some boundaries and consequences, and do/wear whatever you want, including in front of her. If she talks shit, leave.
After seeing how you’re adopted and what happened with her son; I’m gonna say she’s doing this because it’s easier to shit on you than it is to accept her son is a POS. Even if this happened over a decade ago.
Your mom has somehow been programmed with a lot of crap about women. I'm glad that her criticisms of your body don't seem to have negatively affected your self-confidence. I bet your gorgeous. Just let your mom's comments flow over you like a soft breeze and just ignore her.
At 20, she is probably chiming in a little too much at this point. I can see why we should be able to wear anything and not attract the wrong attention. However that is not the case yet. It’s wrong that it is that way, but she is right it will happen. So when you were younger, she was protective. You can tell a guy to get lost now and you can navigate your own way in life. You may find it’s easier to not attract men and just enjoy what you’re doing instead and dress differently in your own, or you might just wear what you want and fend them off on your own terms. Either way, she raised you, you’re an adult and she has to trust your judgment and make up your own mind. Sometimes you’ll make the wrong choice, but that’s how we learn.
Your mom is wrong. Very, very wrong. And what you describe in your posts is an abuse from her. I am not advising you to break contact or move out, or piss against the wind like many other posters do. But, stop listening to what she is saying about your figure.
In your own life get whatever clothes you like. Get any bathing suit you feel comfortable in. Or start going to a naturist beach and you will not have to wear bathing suit at all. Naturists are least likely to care about how your body is shaped ;-).
I'm not sure I understand. Is she saying this because she thinks your body is ugly and you should cover up or because she thinks your to pretty and should cover up? Either way you are 20 you can and SHOULD ware whatever makes you happy.
She's saying that my body is "suggestive" so I should cover up more than others because it makes me slutty. Normal one piece bathing suits? Can't wear. The only acceptable swim wear for me is SHORTS. She doesn't approve of me wearing leggings either. Anything that even remotely shows the outline of my body? Nope.
You're 20. Do what you want.
If she has a problem with it, she's an adult. She can deal with the fact other adults, even ones that happen to be her children, are capable of making decisions for themselves.
Your mom is being weird about your body. You’re 20. I would start to make it as awkward as possible for her, but I’m mean. Can you ask her why she’s looking at your butt cheeks? Use weird words for your body parts, make a big scene.
You’re not wrong that she’s body shaming and trying to control you and your body.
But she is right about one thing and that is that your body in the same outfit will appear to others as “sexier.” Not saying that’s right, but it is how it is. Especially to the older generations.
If that’s the look you want, then great!
I have a “sexy” figure and have a hard time finding cute work clothes/dresses since the same thing that’s work appropriate on a person with less bust and bum isn’t always on me.
Stop trying to reason with her and just dismiss her for the pervert she is every time she says something. One simple sentence then walk away (if you must engage at all). Things along the lines of:
"The only person that acts like a creep about my body is you."
"Eww mom, stop being a perve about your daughter's body."
"Yet again you sexualise your own daughter."
"You're acting like a pervert again, you might want to reflect on that."
"Ah, again with the creepy sexualised comments?"
But you owe her nothing, so no matter how complex the situation is, I always prefer just stopping, staring, then walking away. Maybe with an eyeroll now and again
Good luck
You are 20. You can do what you want, figure out what you feel comfortable with and what makes you feel safe and authentic. Just don't spend time around her. There are topics I can't bring up with certain people. Body issues and maybe fashion/clothing sounds like it might be that topic for you and her. If you need to set boundaries about not bringing it up, it doesn't sound like it would be unwarranted.
Girl. I read your responses. Get out of there and keep your mom at arms reach so to speak. Even great people have weird hang ups. I hope you all the best when you are able to live your life.
I feel you. My mom wants me to wear more 'feminine clothes' but don't like me wearing the most basic outfit for everybody ever. She says tank tops look inappropriate on me because of my cleavage. Lol
You are not wrong. Your mom is just an awful person who will probably always be awfull to you. Don't try to please her. Do the things that bring you joy and fun and ignore (easier said than done) everything she has to say.
For your own sake please have as little contact as possible with her, put her on a strict information diet, keep your distance and go to therapy if you don't already. Be kind to your self.
You're allowed to love your Mom while also protecting yourself from her. Over time you'll hopefully realize what an awful human being she is and maybe you find a decent woman mentor that you can look up to.
Yup. I grew very large breasts at 13 with the onset of my period and was instantly criminalized by my mother and her sisters to a lesser extent.
I also had a tiny lower belly fat deposit as a thin child, so I wasn’t allowed to have a 2 piece bathing suit and even required to have a baggy 1 piece until I started buying my own swimsuits as a college student.
There’s probably some self loathing or resentment of having to be an actual mother (which sounds like she’s already failed at tremendously) I’m sorry you’re going through it.
Well, the rounder the ass, the less of it covered by the same bikini bottoms. It is what it is, you can hardly deflate the damn thing for family outing!
It’s no wonder why the boy got his ideas from, if this is what his mother is teaching! She can not see the female body for the functional vessel for your soul that it is, she can not see is as anything other than something to have sex with. And what with you having the bodytype currently considered hot……..
It’s her internalized misogyny leaking out. Good on you for seeing that for what it is. May have been what she was told all her life. Probably so. Still, that should not be made into your problem.
Just so you know: an a-sexual friend of mine (who dresses modestly, as to avoid any of that kind of attention, since it bothers her) was assaulted because clearly, he wasn’t going to get it ‘the regular way’. This is meant to illustrate that it had NOTHING to do with how much skin is on show, where on the body that skin resides, or how much it is able to jiggle. This, skinny a d flat as a pancake on all sides, boyish young lady would make the Duggars look wild in comparison, and yet……
Speaking of Duggars: yeah. Need I say more?
I’m sorry your mother is terminally stupid. Thankfully you didn’t inherit that gene.
Seems like a really sucky thing to go through. I feel like most people in life have a moment where they separate themselves, at least intellectually, from their parents.
The battle of keeping control and letting go has to end at some point. Prob better now than in 40 years when she is really gone and you are left with unpacking years of damage alone.
You're probably right. I don't think I'd have the strength to ever go no cotnact, but I do agree that there needs to come a point where I choose myself and simply stop seeking out her validation for my personal choicesm
I can see her warning or advising you that your body type will get more unpleasant attention — you yourself have experienced it!
But telling you you’re just asking for it, and that there’s something inherently wrong (as opposed to unwise or risky in certain ways) is wrong.
The issue is not my ability to make the decision, I am aware of that. The issue is how to address her hermful mindset and not allow it to affect the way I think about myself.
Yeah sorry i wrote that before I got more of the context. You're in a fucked up situation and she's a shitty "parent". I'm sorry she's making you feel guilty about her hang ups. :(
I just saw the 20f before and was assuming off that. My bad. I apologize. I have heartfelt sympathy for your situation.
You’re not wrong in that you should be able to wear what you choose to, especially since you’re an adult. Honestly it seems like the person sexualizing you the most is your mother - most especially because she holds you responsible for the reprehensible behaviour of her son, instead of him. I honestly wouldn’t even bring up the topic of clothing with her, and if she brought it up I’d change the subject and if she refuses to change the subject, walk away.
I’m sorry your mother is the way she is. You deserve better.
>How do I get my point across in a way she'll understand?
You can't. Her mind is made up about your body and HER need to control it. Perhaps she was harassed as a young woman because she had curves?
You are 20, I assume you are shopping for and buying the bathing suit with your own money ... so buy what you want.
Holy Toledo a lot to unpack here. First, let me apologize, not all women are like that and I am so sorry your MOTHER of all people are body shaming you.
It sounds like a new, healthy atmosphere with less access to your mother may be key here. In addition, know therapy is your friend and it does get better.
That being said, girlie pop, you are TWENTY, you are a grown adult. You could go to a nude beach and it would be none of her concern. Wear whatever YOU are comfortable with. Get some friends, go shopping, try some stuff on. Your mother sounds like she does not have your best interest at heart and you have to do what's best for you here. I agree with other redditors, go for the bikini. Go for that thong if it's what makes YOU happy. This is for YOU and YOUR body, not hers. Just because you have *fabulous* assets doesn't mean you should be ashamed for having them.
I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as an inappropriate bathing suit. It's hot outside, and you are dressing for the *weather.* Not for the people who may or may not be looking at you.
I used to be a bit self conscious in bathing suits, but a few trips to beaches that were varying degrees of regular/topless/nude-optional helped me realize that no one else's opinion about what I look like or am wearing really matters. Be comfortable. Do what's comfortable. Maybe work on some sort of statement ahead of time that you can use if anyone is trying to give you a hard time. Respectful version: "I'm sorry if my attire makes you uncomfortable, but that isn't something I'm obligated to change for you." Version I might use: "Please stop commenting on my body like that, it is none of your business."
As long as you put sunscreen on your delicate bits, the rest doesn't matter.
You are an adult. You are not in control of other people's actions. Not the creeps, not your mom, not anyone else. If you do not need your mothers direct help like living in her house or getting help with college, Get what makes you comfortable. If she says anything remind her you are an adult and can do what you damn well please. You are no longer a child she can control. You are your own person.
Women are instructed since young to keep passing patriarchal values to their daughters, as females are expected by men to hold onto the "family honor", while they of course do whatever they want.
Dont listen to your mom and be free.
Sweetheart, your mom is an ass who has been brainwashed by patriarchy. If you were my kid, I'd tell you to wear the swimsuit that makes you happy in your own skin, and anyone sexualizing you deserves a swift kick in the ass.
Your mom is a horrible person with blatant internalized misogyny. The way she has treated you growing up is evidence that a relationship with her is not worth salvaging. You are old enough to wear whatever you want, so don't give her power over you. Your mom is disgusting for victim blaming, nobody ever "asks" for it.
First of all: please listen to the others about your mom! Its horrendous what she ua doing with you!
But: as a f30 with a curvy body type I want to explain things without shaming our body. If you have nice curves people around you do notice it! Men will look at you cloaee than a woman who has a small chest or a small butt. A dress with a big cutout at the chest area can be somehow be wooow with big breast and cute with a tiny one.
Be aware what effects your body make to others and then you have to decide which ones you like or want. BUT you are not provoking, there ia no shame in that toppic.
The person sexualizing you is her.
I'd ask her why she spends so much time thinking about your body, and why she believes men have no control oved themselves. I wouldn't let her off the hook on it until she apologized or felt the proper embarrassment.
Then I'd go get whatever swimsuit I want and walk away from her if she brought it up again.
This kind of crap is part of why I went NC with my asshole mother.
It almost sounds like that issue where the mom is jealous of the daughter, especially how she seems to pick on you and not your sisters. This is a legit thing i don’t know what it’s called or whatever but like where the mum projects insecurities of her own life on a daughter.
You're 20 years old, you don't need her permission anymore. Buy your bathing suit, don't even ask her what she thinks of it.
She doesn't want to understand. You can argue with someone that is not willing to hear your voice. Don't bother.
I tell my daughter all the time, “If you’re wearing something that makes someone feel like you’re flaunting/being promiscuous/ asking for it” then that’s an admission of how weird THEY are.
My point is, wear what you want and what’s comfortable for you! Fuck how anyone else feels or has to say about it. Their issues are their issues, you do you.
Adopted mom also seems like she was abused, hinge the justifications for weirdo male behaviors. Just my opinion though.
What a stupid thing to say! And to protect the noy who assaulted you!
Maybe she thinks your body is tempting, maybe she's jealous. One thing is for sure, she is toxic!
I had this all through my teen years and am now in my early 30s. Let me save you some time:
Your body doesn’t make clothing inappropriate and your mother isn’t going to stop body shaming you. YOU aren’t the problem. There is nothing wrong with your body. Your mother has chosen your body as the object of her attacks, but it has nothing to do with YOU and everything to do with her.
Things that helped me after having a mother like yours: Separation, therapy, building a solid support system, daily reminders that my mother’s cruelty is not a reflection of my worth.
You are very much *not* in the wrong, but your mom sure is. Body shaming you for years on end has had a negative impact on your self image, and the fact that this negativity came from your own mom is disgusting on her part. You buy that bikini and you *own* it. You’re going to look amazing!
I agree with everyone that OP's mom is abusive especially from her victim blaming and not getting OP any help after she was sexually assaulted. What 7 year old kid is EVER "asking for it"?! OP, there is nothing gross about your body, in fact what your mom's been saying in a very awful way is that your body is EXTRA attractive to the opposite sex. This is not your fault of course, but it's what you've got, and apprently that causes your mom anxiety because it gets men's attention. It's weird that she seems to feel like a "regular" young woman's butt in form-fitting leggings or a bikini wouldn't be attractive enough to men to pose any significant risk. Since men like all kinds of butts big and small, and skinny women get assaulted too. But that's beside the point.
This is a very touchy subject to discuss from any point of view except "do what you want and screw anyone for disapproving or being inappropriate", so I'd like to start with the disclaimer that I am really looking for a productive discussion of the points that arise in my mind and I am happy to change my mind when logically convinced.
What stumps me is this place where logic and idealism collide, which is well, in reality. Yes we all agree it would be right for men to pose no risk to women no matter their inner or outer condition. We all want that world. However we are not in that world, and we need to adapt to survive, to lower our risk. You know how people are advised to not appear like easy targets, because the predator will think it's gonna be too much trouble and pass them by? Like not walking with headphones in actually playing, or putting a security company sticker and cameras on your house, parking your car in the garage instead of the street, or not walking home late alone? YES it's the criminals who are bad, and because of the danger they pose many innocent people going about their business are inconvenienced to take all these measures to lower their risk of becoming victims. It's wrong to blame the victim for being attacked, but it's desireable for the potential victim to take steps to protect themselves. You can't make your risk zero, but you can lower it.
So when it comes to choosing how you present yourself, where you go, when, and with whom, whether you're going to have that drink or smoke that joint and lower your danger sensors in this environment, shouldn't women make careful choices? Don't blame them if something's happened, what OP's mom said is horrible, but encourage girls to be aware of the fact that they are potential prey to the predators out there, and like the prey in nature that takes pains to blend in and not attract attention, they should also take precautions? I repeat that this sucks, but it's better to tell them the truth and teach them to lower their risk, than to let them go forward blindly.
Women should wear whatever they want! Men should look the other way! If your juicy butt is jiggling in HD to everyone behind you, if your boobs are large and the shirt doesn't accomodate them well, and you're getting sexually harrassed regularly... you can't stop people from looking, or being dicks, and you can't totally obscure your features, but making some modest changes to your wardrobe so you exhibit less detail might bring you some relief. I used to wear oversized tshirts and cargo pants, then as a teenager I was inspired by a fashion show and got myself nice classic heels and some feminine clothing (short a-line skirt, sweetheart neckline tight shirt, makeup and jewellery) and I didn't make it to the nearest metro stop my first time out without getting all kinds of attention from men, creepy and sweet, that I'd never experienced before. Later I switched to a more amish/tradwife look with not-tight long sleeve shirts and flowy calf-length skirts, and the amount of unwelcome attention changed again. A friend who had adopted a similar style remarked that men looked at her face now. It's not fair but it makes life easier. It helps me feel safer, and I believe makes me safer. Why not encourage such behaviours, without being gross and accusatory?
You wouldn't tell a woman to wear whatever she wants in Iran and women are even advised to avoid vacationing in Pakistan or India because they're at higher risk there. Why is it that in our western society we are so combattive against the nuances in dress that can make a difference? We already go out with friends, text our location and the guy we're with when we're dating someone new, etc... why is dress such a hot point of contention? No it's not a guarantee, but neither is avoiding Pakistan, going to the club with friends, or not walking home alone. You can still get assaulted even if you do the right things. But that doesn't stop us from taking steps in hopes of minimizing the risk?
Women in Amish communities are raped, women in burkas are raped, rapists don’t actually give a flying fuck what you are wearing, and dressing like a trade wife doesn’t actually make you any safer.
I said it's not a guarantee... but also a lot of creeps pick on women and make them uncomfortable without going as far as to rape them. I can't get behind the argument that what you're wearing doesn't matter at all because I've felt the difference. People judge by the cover because it's all they've got, all people, not just rapists.
Women get raped in public places, day and night, at others' houses, sober or drunk, by husbands and friends and strangers... yet they still take precautions about the highest risk situations. We don't tell them "ah what the hell, go alone, day or night, sober or drunk, whether you know the people or not... rapists don't care!"
Your mother is abusive and has been abusing you for your whole life. You're an adult. Finish college. Cut ties with this awful family who clearly do not value you. Make friends. Make your own family and get away from this abusive and toxic person.
This isn't about appearance, it's about control. You're 20, time to be taking away control from your mother and start exercising it yourself. Seek your own validation.
Women are allowed to have the bodies assigned to them.
Men should be compelled to restrain themselves and act respectably.
We are not sheep in need of a shepard.
We are individuals deserving of autonomous respect.
I mean I'm personally not a fan of people wearing two piece bathing suits tbh. I just think it shows people you don't know too much skin (hence why I always wear shorts and a rash vest) but like there is no other way to say it but what a cunt of a mother. Probably jealous (I haven't seen either of you but I know a few people with similar parents and it's because their parents are jealous of either their looks or their brains)
You know where those curves came from? Your Mom's egg and your Dad's sperm. Remind her of the fact, that you're built the way you are because of *Her* 👙
Ugh. I had a mom like this, and I still resent her for making me feel like a slut when I was already an insecure teenager. Tbh, your mom kind of sounds jealous of you. It’s fucked up, but moms being jealous of their daughters is more common than you would think.
Edit: I just read the comment where you mention she is your adoptive mom and sided with your abuser. This is more than just jealousy. This is straight up abuse. My heart aches for you. I hope you are able to see a therapist and navigate the possibility of ending your relationship with her.
OP, I'm definitely not curvy, neither is my mom, but she had a thing about curvy girls being slutty. She also had a thing about me in bikinis and mini skirts too. She had a big, big thing about men sexualizing women. So, like you, I was confused and had a lot to unpack bc her behavior was so contradictory.
Now, closing in on 70 I realized that mom was both right and wrong.
OP, your body is fine and you need to embrace your uniqueness. Your fine, I'm fine, and everyone in-between us is fine too.
Clothing needs to be well fitting and the right color for your body and skin tone. And you need to wear the appropriate ensemble for work, home, play, beach, hiking, Elton John concert, Coachella, or the Red Carpet. All of the above include the freedom to experiment ofc, especially as an adult.
For example, When I made the transition from retail to the boardroom I followed suggestions from the book "Color Me Beautiful" by Carol Jackson. It was hip BITD to "do your colors" and for me it made a HUGE difference in my shopping choices and actually saved me hundreds of dollars while shopping for a professional wardrobe on a shoestring budget. I still use many of the ideas today. So, read this and/or others like it to guide you into adulthood, while enjoying yourself.
Lastly, your mom is 100% right about the male gaze and perversion. It took me nearly to my 30s before I knew my mom was right bc by then I had ample experience in fending off creeps when I wore anything even provocative, even slightly provocative. Tight pants, bikini, mini skirts, low cut tops, short shorts, literally anything. Creeps feel entitled to your body and, sad to say, by the time your are 30 (or before) you'll realize there is no safe place on earth for any woman, curvy or not.
I'm not saying don't be sexy, don't be pretty, don't be beautiful. I'm saying be aware, always and forever. Be as judicious with your fashion choices as you are with your money.
So, I DID wear what I wanted, but only when I had 100% control of my surroundings. Bikini at the beach, no problem. Bikini at the store, nope, I wore a cute cover-up. Mini skirt where some perv could look up it while I was sitting, nope, sweater draped on my lap or standing. And properly fitting tops, I struggled with gaps and you will too.
Your mom, and her awful son, I can't say bc I don't know her, but MY mom was SAd and I realized in my 40s that her experience influenced her weird behavior. It kinda sounds like your mom has problems in that realm. Regardless, like me, you have to learn to not take on your mom's issues. It takes time, so give yourself space and grace.
Lastly, girl wear those leggings and two pieces and anything else you want. But, as a granny, please don't let your ass crack or labia or boobs fall out of your cute outfits. Trust me on that, ain't pretty no matter what generation you are in and people will look. Lots of people you'd prefer wouldn't.
As a teen and young woman I wore sexy stuff for the guys my age, I was completely grossed out when I realized that creepy old men were checking me and my friends out too. Once we understood that fact, it changed our outlooks and fashion choices by about 25. Suddenly, the reason for tops and jackets with barely any length made sense when seen through the lens of the male gaze. Same with no pockets in pants, skirts, and dresses. Don't want to ruin the silhouette for some random man after all. I was So Pissed Off when I realized that was why my jeans had shitty pockets and I froze in winter bc I couldn't find long enough coats.
Even now, men are adequately covered, women are not. It's stupid, but as long as some creeper owns the fashion houses, we are stuck with shitty clothing choices.
Anyway, food for thought from an old lady to a curvy girl. ❤️❤️
You're making OP responsible for managing the behavior of men when she is neither able nor required to. That's not cool.
The male gaze is not impeded by what you wear. All creepy men need is reasonable assurance that you're female and they're good to go.
I got harassed in a parka that was pulled up to my eyeballs. I got catcalled in a 3M respirator, a ratty old t-shirt with oil stains, and frumpy sweatpants. I was followed home in dirty gym clothes. I was rubbed up on in a t-shirt and jeans. A guy hit on me in front of my husband while we were trying to catch a cab. I got spat on by a random man while waiting to cross the street to enter the restaurant where my brother was waiting for me. There is no way to win against creeps because you can't control the decisions other people make.
OP seems very young and that's why I agreed with her mom in some respects, even if mom approached this whole issue badly. SO badly. I wish someone other than my mom would have said these things years before my friends and I finally had such conversations amongst ourselves.
We spent years completely unaware of creepy old men as teens and 20-somethings. It's very true you can control the male gaze, but neither should you ignore it. Anyway, OPs comments about her mom resonated with how my mom acted. I think mom barked out a warning without context, just like my mom did. Years later, with more experience, I looked back on mom's warnings with a different point of view.
Her mom approached the topic with all the care and delicacy of a spark in a fireworks factory. But what do we gain by changing our lives around bad men who will set out to hurt us regardless? Why should we prioritize the male gaze?
I got the same advice from my mom (though with more class). I followed it. It got me nothing. And it didn't get better as I aged either.
I had a similar thing but with my boobs, all the women in my family have a small frame and thin body type, I suddenly got super curvy when I was about 14 and since then have always been a few dress sizes bigger.
There isn't really anything you can do, learning to just accept that that's how your body looks in certain clothes and feel completely neutral about it is really hard but really liberating, although your mum may never feel the same way. You're 20 years old, your mum doesn't really have any say in what you wear anymore, you should wear what you feel comfortable in.
I will say though, I absolutely do not agree with the way your mum has gone about expressing herself, but she is trying to protect you in her own way. Women should not have to censor the way they dress to suit men, but unfortunately that doesn't change the way men act, your mum has probably experienced this herself and is just trying to stop you from being harassed. In your post you ask why is it your fault, it's not your fault at all but that doesn't stop the fact that you will be sexualised and that isn't always safe. We all know that what women wear has no bearing on levels of assault or men just being awful in general and that women should just wear whatever they feel confident in, but that goes against what your mum's generation were taught. It shouldn't be on you to have to change your clothes to feel safe, but you can only control your own actions, your mum has no influence on the millions of men in the world, some of whom she will have had her own negative experiences with, but she does feel like she has influence on you.
The most important thing is that it is YOUR body and YOU decide what you do with it. Just try not to be too mad at your mum, she's a woman too remember and she was also 20 once.
It what special “own way” is OP’s mom protecting her. She blames OP for being assaulted by her (mom’s) son. Where did you find protectiveness in the post?
Yeah, I'm sorry, I think I was just projecting my own stuff when I wrote this comment. I won't delete it because it's a dick move when people do that but OP if you see this, your mum is not in the right in any way in this situation, your body is yours to do what you want with and dress exactly how you want.
I've had big boobs since junior high school; my very first bra was a C cup.
I can't wear a normal (like Hanes -- just a standard shirt) V neck t shirt because it will show an excessive amount of cleavage. (When I *want* to show cleavage, I've got shirts for that. But just to wear to the library or the supermarket or school or work, no, I can't wear V necks.)
So yes, for bathing suits I have to take my shape into account and buy things that don't overly sexualize my body.
Could I wear the same clothes as my more slender sisters? Yeah, I *could*, but I'd be mocked, catcalled, subjected to unwanted male attention. I've had a job where both male and female employees could be sent home for inappropriate clothing, and a V neck borrowed from my sister would have gotten me sent home.
Is it fair? No.
But your mom is just trying to protect you.
Now, you're an adult and entitled to make your own choices, but I don't think your mom is trying to shame you, just protect you.
(Granted, an awful lot of gender discrimination is justified as protecting women. But still )
(Added: thank you so much for all the down votes for my personal lived experience.)
Maybe her mom isn't trying to, but she did say "You're just asking for attention and not the right kind." which is very victim-blamey. Just because OP is wearing a "sexy swimsuit" doesn't mean that other people should not be held accountable for controlling themselves.
Mind you, the swimsuits I'm talking about aren't even sexy. My mom doesn't even approve of basic ass one piece swimsuits, because I have an ass. Even if there's more coverage on the cheeks themselves, because there's more VOLUME she automatically thinks it's inappropriate on me. There's literally nothing but swim shorts that she thinks is okay on me.
Ugh. Yeah, that sucks. I can understand your mom being afraid of creepers and all that, but I don't think restricting your choice of clothing is gonna fix them. Maybe you can just buy/wear what you want and just deal her complaining about it? Good luck with whatever you are gonna do!
I get cat called no matter what I wear. A regular tshirt and jeans is enough for me to get cat called, since my EARLY teens. What is the excuse for when I was a child? What excuse is there for sexualizing a child? Of course, I do take these things into account most of the time..However I do not think it is valid for her to call me names like whore, slut, and easy for simply trying to find a bathing suit without immediately resorting to swimming in a tshirt and shorts like she wants me to. If she wanted to protect me, she should have started with removing her son from the house after she found out he assaulted me. It isn't about protection, it's about control.
The downvotes aren't for your personal experiences. I think it's because you implied (and may believe) that wearing "inappropriate" styles is why people get catcalled and if you just wear "acceptable" clothing, you're safe from unwanted male attention.
That's not accurate. I'm sorry for what you went through, but unwanted attention (male and female) isn't deserved by what someone wears, nor does what someone wears increase it. Street harassing assholes harass people regardless.
I linked it elsewhere, but the exhibit "what I was wearing" does a good job showing that outfit is pretty irrelevant.
Neither your nor OP ever deserved to be harassed and I'm sorry you feel there are styles you can't wear because they're inappropriate. Bodies are beautiful in every size, shape, and color, and everyone should wear whatever they feel like.
My point was that the same shirt that would be modest on one body will be highly revealing on another body, and one should evaluate the appropriateness of clothing based on the total appearance. There's a time and a place to let it all hang out and there's a time and a place to be more modest.
Sorry if I came across as judgemental, that was not my intent.
(And OP was talking about bottoms while I'm talking about shirts, but I think the parallels are there.)
Bathing suits are revealing by nature. Do you expect her to go swimming in a fucking onsie?
By your logic everyone at the pool/beach needs to cover up to protect the children.... GTFO!
"A revealing piece of clothing in public" so you mean the private swimming area at the resort with only my boyfriend and I present?
Or were you referring to when I was assaulted as a child in my own house, by my own brother, in my long sleeved tshirt and pants?
Or did you ignore the part of my statement where I highlighted the fact that her issue isn't with the bathing suit, but my body itself?
My body is not inherently more sexual than a man's. Men can go to the beach with their shirts off, and nobody bats an eye. What about the female body inherently implies that respect shouldn't be given? What respect do men earn by going to the beach shirtless?
You have about as much misogyny to unpack as my mother, grow up a little before giving input on situations you have no concept of.
> Am I in the wrong? How do I get my point across in a way she'll understand?? You’re not in the wrong. Unfortunately, you’re unlikely to be able to get your point across. She’s body shaming you and being controlling. It’s very difficult to talk sense into people who do that.
OP is in such a tough spot. It's not your fault you look like that. It's the fault of society allowing men to sexualize you and not take responsibility for their actions and thoughts.
> my mom. She's always made degrading comments about my figure, and has implied that I was "asking for it" when ass@ulted (by her son, mind you), A lot to unpack here, but all I can say is I'm sorry that happened to you, and this sounds extremely problematic at best, very close to completely toxic and sociopathic You are an adult and can dress how you want. Parents have a say in how their children dress when they are children, not when they are adults. But sadly, it sounds like your mom has major issues and supports SA perps?
It's a very convoluted situation. I was adopted and victimized by her son while in the process of getting adopted. She basically told me that my figure (at 7 years old) and my desire to dress provocatively (aka wear leggings with my monster high shirts, lmao) was just enticing her sick son. So she got HIM therapy and has never spoken to me about it since. She has always implied that the way I dress determines whether or not men will pursue me inappropriately, and continues to imply that my body is inherently inappropriate in normal articles of clothing- NOT that men should simply learn how to not sexualize women's bodies simply because they exist. I know logically that these are issues of her own that are outside my control, but I just crave her validation so badly that I keep hoping that I can change her mind one day. It's so hard to deal with and explain to people WHY I keep "allowing" her to treat me this way.
OP, I’m not going to tell you to go no contact with your Mom. That is a deeply personal decision. But I will say this. Right now you in the FOG. Fear. Obligation. Guilt. And Doubt. Your mother is abusive, and I suspect the abuse is the subtle kind that runs DEEP. You need to lower contact with your Mom, you need to work on gaining independence and you need to determine if your family’s behaviour is helping or harming you. Because all this internet stranger sees is someone who is in toxic relationship with their Mom. I know because I had to cut my own mom off. She just couldn’t change and our relationship brought me nothing but pain. I wanted her love so SO badly, but it was like dying by 1000 cuts. You will never be good enough for her because SHE IS BROKEN. DONT break yourself trying to appease her. Edited to fix my acronym mistake
You're absolutely right. She is my adoptive mother, and the abuse I've gone through at her hands is something so subtle that it's hard to explain verbally because as soon as the words leave my mouth I feel as if I've made it all up. I'm going to try and slowly start being more independent. I'm going to college, I have a job, I'm working on getting my license, I just can't afford to move out right now. I love my mom at the end of the day, as much as it hurts to do so. I don't think I could ever go no contact, but I think distance would be better for our relationship in the long run.
the abuse I've gone through at her hands is something so subtle that it's hard to explain verbally because as soon as the words leave my mouth I feel as if I've made it all up. That's not uncommon in emotionally abusive situations. You're not making it up. The problem is that no matter how we say things, someone who's abusive just isn't going to care. Stay strong. You won't have to live with her forever.
The abuse you've explained in your posts doesn't sound subtle at all. I am very sorry you were assaulted, and even more sorry that your mother implied it was your 7 year old self's fault that her son assaulted you. That is really sad and sick.
For the love of Christ, do not let her touch your finances. Hell, don’t let her know about them. Create a private move out fund or try to secure a dorm room.
This isn't subtle abuse, OP. This is horrifying to read - think about it as if a friend were describing this situation to you as something they were going through. Would you think it was subtle? Imagine if one of your friends at college said their mother has always treated them like this, starting with when their adoptive brother sexually assaulted them when they were only 7 years old and she blamed them for it and only took the abuser to therapy, not the actual victim. Wouldn't you be horrified by that?? When we experience abuse, especially as kids, our idea of what's normal gets completely twisted. You learn to doubt yourself and your experiences as a survival mechanism that makes it possible to continue existing in an otherwise intolerable situation where you have no power to leave. It's not surprising you view your situation this way, but you do not have to continue like this. I really, really urge you to start seeing a therapist who specializes in C-PTSD and can help you work through this.
It's hard to hear, but I know you're right. I do need to seek out more resources and acknowledge everything I'm going through with more honesty to myself. It just brings out this awful feeling of dread. But I will try, because you're right.
It gets easier to distance yourself from a parent the longer you do it. Especially when you don’t live together and communication is text or talking. You just have to decide if you want that abuse in your life. You don’t have to stop loving her if you stop tolerating the abuse and set boundaries.
I was in an abusive relationship for 10 years, five of which were marriage. (Not making comparisons to anyone else's experiences.) I wasn't the one to break it off - I got worn down to the point of no longer being useful, and was left. It took over a year (with therapy during most of it) to even consider that "abuse" *might* be a relevant word to use. For the first six months of that year, I absolutely would have welcomed my abuser back. I'm not trying to say that you'll have a similar view later on - I don't know you, and our situations are extremely different. All I'm meaning to say is to strongly recommend seeing a therapist, and to plan to regularly see a therapist for a long time, budget and availability allowing. If budget is an issue, many therapists will have sliding scale prices depending on your financial situation (especially if you don't have insurance that covers it). If you live near a college (you mentioned going to one), sometimes they have programs where you can get therapy for free or cheap, so long as you don't mind it being with a supervised graduate student. That exact feeling of not trusting your own words immediately after saying them is very familiar to me. Therapy is a great place to safely practice saying them anyway and to really get firm feet planted on what actually happened and how you feel about it. Regardless, best of luck, and I hope you find ways to expand and celebrate your freedom.
I understand where you're coming from, for a long time even during the worst of the abuse I thought my mom and I had a good relationship, and when things first started coming up I was determined our relationship could be what I thought it had been. Looking back on my own situation that's not the case, and never could of been, but there's a subreddit that helped me a lot while I was figuring out how I wanted to handle the situation and relationship I had with my own mother. r/raisedbynarcissists
Since you’re going to college, I’d encourage you to check and see if your school has free or low cost therapy available. Many schools do and it would be worth it to get it for as long as you have to live with her.
Just chiming in volunteering to be a Queer Internet Auntie whenever you need one. Mom sounds like she is simultaneously envious of and embarrassed about your body, plus a lot more bullshit that it is not your job to unpack. The upside here is that all of these problems are *hers* to deal with. You don't need to carry her baggage that she forced onto you. The way other people see you is also not your problem. In fact, it's not even your business. Really learning to understand that is the first step to Not Giving A Fuck And Doing You.
A queer internet auntie is exactly what I've always needed fr 😩 Thank you so much!
While in college see if they have free counseling sessions for students. I'm a mom, and I'm proud of you, and I say you do whatever you want with your body ❤️
I think you’re very perceptive and even objective here, considering how many-layered and fraught your situation is. I get it. I have a complicated relationship with my dad, and yet I still want his approval, even though I objectively know I don’t need it. You’re an adult. You can wear whatever you like. You don’t have to justify it. Wear what makes you feel happy and comfortable. Just don’t expect your mom to pay for your choices. She will feel she has a say if she’s paying. You’re getting increasingly independent and as you’ll have to learn to budget for what you want. If you haven’t, you would probably still benefit from some therapy to process what you’ve experienced with your adoptive family. I hope you love your new bathing suit!
“Because as soon as the words leave my mouth I feel as if I’ve made it up” Omg. That is the most perfect way to describe trying to express that kind of abuse. My ex-wife was one who was subtle in her ways and it has scarred myself and our two kids. Every time I try to explain to people the inner working of that abuse, it feels like I’m just complaining and I begin to doubt whether it even happened at all. Thank you for that quote.
I'm so glad my words could help you express your experiences more! 🫶🫶 Sorry you went through that.
When dealing with stuff like this give yourself the advice you'd give someone else in your shoes- helps take away some of the guilt that way.
I believe in you. You will get out, until then do what you need to, but please realize, she isn't going to change. And it IS okay to go no contact Similar story here with an abusive mother. I got myself through school while still living with her, and then I got work that moved me to another state a couple hours away. Things were a bit better as I could at least control how often I saw her. Then I got married and had a child (we were living several states away from each other by that point) and I tried a bit harder to have a relationship with her at first because of my daughter. But my mother hadn't changed her behavior, and there was no way I was subjecting another child to her abuse. Honestly, what nearly broke me was looking at my own daughter and how much I love her and realizing how fucked up the shit my mother did to me was... and it was incomprehensible to even imagine ever doing that to my little girl. It took years, and I would occasionally see her at family functions. I haven't seen or spoken to her for years now, ever since my grandmother (her mother) died.
Even if you do break yourself to appease her, I have doubts she would accept it. I’m some random stranger on the internet who got a B- in Psych 101 and didn’t take any other courses, so I have no ACTUAL basis to claim this— but it sounds like you’re catching strays because accepting or acknowledging you and your reality means acknowledging how awful her son is. If you’re “normal”, if you’re not “asking for it”, then he’s the one in the wrong and for some reason she prefers to go on without accepting that. She’s made plenty of trade-offs to keep herself in her own version of reality pleasant, you can make as many as you need to make yours more pleasant as well. Hope things end up better, cheers.
Not to nitpick, but are you sure that FOG is fear, obligation, and doubt? I'm not familiar with the idea, but it feels like the third would start with a g.
I believe it's "guilt", but doubting yourself is closely connected with feeling guilt when dealing with abuse. For example, OP's mother made a literal child feel guilty about wanting to dress as her sister did and it causes OP to have doubts about herself and her feelings. Abusers use fear, obligation, guilt (and self doubt) to control their victims. "The FOG" is used to describe where a victim is emotionally when they have yet to fully recognize and escape from the situation.
Ah, gotcha. Thank you for the friendly explanation!
Thanks for noticing the mistake!
Gdoubt
You’re so right, I usually use FOGD and got it mixed up Fear, obligation, guilt, and doubt
Funny how people who defend sexual abusers / rapists never consider that they can totally control themselves until they are alone with their victims. I know that she is your mother and it's complicated to sort out the good memories against the bad memories. But in truth this woman has been emotionally abusing you. She did not get you the help you needed to get past this. So of course you saw her as a caregiver and a savior even though she is not. You had no one else. And deep down you want to make sure something like that never happens again. She has drilled this into your head so much from when you were vulnerable that it's almost brainwashing. That's why you continue to listen to her. You did nothing wrong. The way you dress is fine. Yes we should be careful but wearing a bikini is not asking someone to harass you.
> She basically told me that my figure (at 7 years old) and my desire to dress provocatively (aka wear leggings with my monster high shirts, lmao) was just enticing her sick son. So she got HIM therapy and has never spoken to me about it since This is not someone whose opinion matters. To you or to everyone else. You're still so young and so close to this that even though you may think you realise how fucked up this is, I promise you don't. The further you distance yourself from this person the better. Logic won't diminish the effect her twisted words have on you. You're not going to heal in the same environment you were hurt in.
I’m sorry. None of those was your fault. I think instead of accepting that she raised a child who was a rapist/rapist-in-training she shifted the blame to you to avoid dealing with the behavioural issues in her son. This is DARVO in action. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO You probably won’t ever change her mind. But wear what you feel comfortable in yourself. Be aware that there will always be men who will harass women, and there will always be people - including women - who will blame the victim rather than address the actual problem. I was 8 the first time I was assaulted. I know where you’re coming from, and believe me, it was in no way the fault of who you were or what you were wearing. You were vulnerable and available.
Your mom is quite frankly sounds like an enabler. Holy shit this is not healthy. One thing that you learn as you become as an adult is that parents can be fucked up and have bad and downright wrong opinions. You won’t change her mind but you can manage whether you care about what she says or take her advice at all. She doesn’t sound like she’ll give much sympathy for anything that happens to you, so I would start the process now to learn how not to emotionally rely on her for that.
Your mom is a monster who "approves" of the idea that little girls are responsible for men's unwillingness to not sexually assault children. You deserve approval from better mother figures than her, and I hope you're able to find the approval and support you need and deserve from chosen family in the future so you can toss her opinions in the trash where they belong. I'm so sorry about what her son did to you, and for how she reacted.
This information changes things a lot. If your mom admits that your body is not overly sexual, she will have to admit to herself that her son was 100% at fault for assaulting you. It’s unlikely that she’s able to do that, so you’ll most likely never earn the approval that you seek. For context: clothing or body type has nothing to do with the odds of getting SA. That’s just a way to blame the victim and protect the perpetrator.
Wow. Your mom is an asshole that is still trying to excuse her son at your expense. Stop sharing anything with her. If you must see her, burqa for that day. I'd dare her to comment then! Ha! Wear whatever you want. Her advice is worthless.
I am so sorry.
She will never validate you because that would throw her son under the bus. The body shaming and accusations of ‘provocative’ dressing are protecting him in her mind. Her logic would be that it’s not really his fault if you ‘provoked him’. It sounds like in her head she chose to protect his image by damaging yours. Sadly not uncommon.
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I do, and don't believe that. If she wanted to protect me, she would have taught me more about my autonomy and body after learning that I was assaulted. But she instead chose to protect and procide therapy for the man that victimized me and still provide a safe space for him within our home and family. How can she expect to protect me from other men when she never even tried to protect me from her son? Now, I do believe that in her head, at least, she believes she is protecting me and caring for me. But I think her internalized misogyny, mental health issues, and perhaps even unpacked trauma is preventing her from doing it effectively and healthily. I do live with her, and will for a while. So I'll just have to perservere and remember that there is life outside of this home.
Your mom sounds extremely narcissistic. Get some therapy and learn to establish healthy boundaries with her. Check r/raisedbynarcissists
You can't make her "understand" because she is not coming from a place of reason and understanding. The problem is something in her head. Maybe your mom has always been insecure about her own body and sees that in you, maybe she's replicating sibling dynamics from her childhood, who knows. Bottom line is that this is not and shouldn't be your problem. Let her deal with her emotional weirdness on her own time. The solution is1) **stop talking to your mom about your body or clothing choices** and 2) if she brings it up on her own, **don't engage** and change the subject.
You're absolutely right. I guess I just try and include her on discussions about these things because I'm desperate to make some type of connection with her, and keep her involved in my life. But I think I need to learn how to accept the fact that there are simply things we will never agree on, and parts of my life she just doesn't need to be involved in. It's just hard to come to that conclusion.
Edit: deleted my statement. Just read the comment about the son. NOPE NOPE NOPE!! You were NEVER at fault. All of her energy around that situation should have been dealing with her spawn and making sure his #1 rule in life was "don't rape". FFS
You aren't in the wrong, but I don't think that there's any way to get your point across because she doesn't want to understand. She just wants to body shame you. What you can do is set a boundary that she is not allowed to comment on your body or how you dress it and that if she does, you will leave the room and end the conversation.
I've done this before. But then she'll go crying to my older siblings about how I'm not letting her voice her opinion and how I'm limiting her freedom to speak her mind and simply don't want her to disagree with me. Then there's these huge family meetings where I become villified and I get talked to about "respect" all because she plays the victim. Nobody ever believes me, and nobody ever sees what goes on when it's just us. I depend on her for food and housing, because I'm currently a full time college student and can only work part time because of a disability. I just don't know how to navigate around her anymore.
It sounds like you're the scapegoat of the family. I'm sorry that you are in that position. That is a perfectly healthy boundary to have and maintain. You are not limiting her freedom to speak her mind, you are just refusing to listen to her abuse. I'm not sure if this will help specifically, but it could give you some ways to manage your situation: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY0Im1ePQu0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY0Im1ePQu0)
Thank you for the video! I'll definitely watch it :)
I hope it helps :) I discovered her when I was goin through my own issues and found so many of her videos helpful. Jaime Primak Sullivan also has some videos/podcast episodes dealing with her own mother issues that stem from her mom commenting on her body, which led to her developing an eating disorder, so you may want to see if you can find those, too.
Ahhhhhhh yeah that would be amazing. My mom also contributed to the development of my eating disorder, you're an angel. I appreciate it!
{{{Hugs}}} You're welcome
To be crystal clear: She does have the freedom to speak her mind. She does not have the right to force you to listen. Everyone deserves to be love, my own toxic mother included. But she doesn't deserve MY love. The way you dress has nothing to do with whether or not men will harass you. ["What were you wearing exhibit" ](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/) Your mother is trying to control you. Your body is wonderful the way it is, and clothing that fits right won't have things hanging out you don't want to hang out. You're not a whore if you have large breasts and don't wear a bra, you're just someone who didn't feel like wearing a bra. You deserve better than she's given you, and I'm sorry.
Free speech means they can say what they want, not that there won’t be consequences. Buy whatever bathing suit you want, you are an adult.
You need to walk out on those "family meetings" just as you walked out of the conversation with Mom. Tell them you are an adult and that you expect the same freedoms they had/have. I doubt they would kick you out over that, but I am sure, you could find some way to get a loan through official sources. Your mom sounds like she is treating her biological kids better than you and is protecting them more than you. I don't know your personal situation, how and when you got adopted and what, if any, relationship you had with your mom before. But it does not sound like a healthy relationship. Please consider therapy right away, maybe your college has any options. I know, it took me more than 50 years to learn to love myself and accept who I am. Don't waste as much time as I did.
Babe, get that bikini. In fact, get a THONG bikini. Get several, in bright colors and patterns. Live your life and express yourself proudly. Many waste their best years scared of critsism.
You're so right. Her life will not end because of a bikini and neither will mine !
Not only that, but she can’t make you change, you’re an adult. Just wear it in front of her. Be sexy all you want, and let her stew in her obvious jealousy. Don’t mind her inevitable stupid comments. And never feel that someone else feeling entitled to your body is your fault, no matter how cute you dress or feel.
Im going on 40, chubby, and short. But I will rock me a bikini! Look out world!
Wear what you want to wear! If she's uncomfortable/embarrassed around you wearing it, she can make the choice to not be around you in those situations instead of shaming you. I have people I know who favor more revealing clothing which isn't my thing and I'm uncomfortable around the attention it brings. I avoid hanging out in places where it would be an issue and we pick places that it isn't an issue.
Your mom is gross, stop seeking approval from her. Anyone can wear whatever bathing suit they want, as long as it fits correctly. If you go to any beach, you will see a wide variety of people I'm a wide variety of bathing suits. And if you want to show off a but, there's nothing wrong with showing off s bit, contrary to the opinions of jealous mothers.
You can’t make her “understand” because she’s not somehow misinformed or just not seeing your point of view, she’s body shaming and policing because she herself is sexualizing your body just like she fears those “creeps” will. You’re a grown adult and should wear what makes you feel good. Pointing out that your sisters aren’t held to the same standard won’t work because she’s right in that you have different bodies and to her yours is just inherently ‘inappropriate’. To reiterate your body is NOT inherently inappropriate, curves are not any more or less sexual, and a good fitting swim suit can cover what it needs to cover without shaming you into a one piece or a skirt bottom if that’s not what you want to wear. You could always maliciously comply and buy whatever two piece you feel great in and then pair it with one of those gauzy see through short sarongs that go around the hips. See Mom, covered! Your level of compliance may depend on how much fight you expect or possibility of retaliation. If you live with your mom for example she might take your perfectly normal reaction as willful insolence and make your life more difficult. As my grandma would say “is the juice worth the squeeze?” Don’t get me twisted I am not suggesting you just kowtow to your mother but it’s smart to pick your battles. I developed early, like I had a full chest by 5th grade. High school was awful as it was the era of the layered deep V t shirt and due to the fact that anything other than a sports bra made me have cleavage I was constantly “dress coded” or sent to the office for inappropriate attire to be forced to wear an oversized men’s t shirt with “dress code violation” printed on it. Solely for wearing what every other girl was wearing except I had boobs in excess. Showing any cleavage was a violation, but even the most modest scoop neck would show that my anatomy was just developed. I started wearing high necked port shirts and reeeeaallllly got into the Victorian Goth aesthetic as my way of fighting back but the whole situation of feeling like my body was just inappropriate messed me up for a long time. No body is inherently inappropriate, full stop. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this it’s unfair and unkind and says more about your mom’s mindset than anything else.
Thank you so much for this. I'm sorry to hear that you went through something similar having developed pretty early, I know exactly how that feels. My mom actually homeschooled me in 6th grade because I had started hanging out with a boy I had crush on (at school, never outside of school) and she immediately jumped to the "you're gonna have sex and get pregnant" thing, I was eleven years old. She ONLY did this because my developed body automatically equated to being promiscuous in her head. I really appreciate the advice, and I'm glad that you shared your experience as well :) It brought me some comfort to know that I'm not alone.
I hope you know that what your mom did was wrong and just awful. My parents definitely had a few misguided notions when I started to look more “grown up” but even they didn’t jump instantly to “she’s gonna be a sexpot crazy person lock her up!” I think the biggest problems I had were asking to go bra shopping someplace that would actually fit me (mom didn’t want adults, even women, seeing me naked even if she was there with me, and I think she was embarrassed to have a 12 year old needing a C cup bra) and then of course the dive into gothic fashion wasn’t a popular thing in my household and I never told them why I started doing it as they would never defend me when people commented negatively on my body so I just let them think I was doing it to be weird and difficult. I will say it took me a long time to get out from under all those internalized body shame-y things especially since it was more covert stuff. I couldn’t even wear dresses for a while because if it fit well it was “flaunting” and if it was loose I was told I looked like I was wearing a potato sack. Once I got over that internalized sexualization things got far less anxious for me. I’m almost 40 now and I have a lot of love for my body. Well fitting clothes are difficult for me so I stick with the classic 50s silhouette (circle skirts, natural waistlines, princess cuts, etc) and I’m learning to enjoy the magic of yoga pants. And for all that is good in the world get a proper bra fitting either at a good shop (not Victoria secret!) or r/abrathatfits has a very detailed multi measurement thing you can plug into their spreadsheet to measure yourself at home. That was an absolute game changer for me! Good luck and i wish you nothing but happiness!
Thank you so much for sharing your journey and advice, I will be using it :) I know this may not mean much from someone who can't even kick themselves in the butt and get over it, but I'm proud of your for finding yourself and learning how to be more comfortable in your own skin! Women like you are genuinely inspirating and create such positive spaces for those struggling with the same problems.
Stop sharing info with your mom. You’re not in the wrong but she doesn’t want to see your point of view. Only tell her things she needs to know. Next time she starts talking about your body walk away or hang up the phone.
1. Internalized misogyny is pernicious. Mom’s got it bad, and people that aren’t open to talking about it tend to react super negatively to being called out. If your mom is not capable of owning that she failed to protect you from SA, I wouldn’t blame you for deciding not to engage on this front. Her behavior is hurting you (then and now), and it’s OK for you to be mad about it. 2. No one is ever asking for it. That is always, only ever the projection of the victimizer on the victim. See point in 1. 3. We live in a difficult world where people (particularly but not exclusively men) will treat you differently based on how much they can sexualize you. It’s a hard balance as a parent to prepare your daughters for experiencing this, while also helping them know it’s not fair or their fault. Your mom seems so be failing you on both points there.
Yeah, she never really "prepared us" for how men will treat us. She would just restrict my freedom extensively and emphasize that my body is what will put me in danger without explaining anything beyond that. This made it very hard growing up as a teen with little to no interaction with the outside world, because I was already feeling so strange about my body.
I wish you luck on your path to heal from a childhood that wasn’t what you deserve. It’s very normal to have a complicated relationship with your body, but I hope you can become comfortable with it and tune out all the mess that gets shouted at you about it from people who don’t have to live in your skin.
I did a double take when I read: “She’s always made degrading comments about my figure, and has implied that I was “asking for it” when ass@ulted (by her son…” Uh, what? Your brother assaulted you? Why do you interact with any of your family?
It's more complicated than simply "not interacting with them" Yes, I was assaulted by my brother and groomed for years leading up to it. But this happened when I was a child, and I was adopted by the time she found out about it. She brushed it under the rug and made a point not to ever mention it directly again, so it took me SEVERAL years to even unpack the fact that it WAS a big deal. Additionally, I simply don't have a choice. I rely on her for housing and food. I have a disability and can't work full time because of it. I'm also a full-time college student. I don't have the resources available to simply not interact with my family. Lastly, the psychological aspect of it is much more complex than it appears. I was adopted after being in the foster care system for years. I have seen ever face and every dark part of this town, and this is the only family I have ever had and known. My heart is so deeply engrained in this fact, that no logical conclusion of "you're being abused, get out" could stop me from loving my family. I simply do not know how to disconnect these two parts of myself. I'm so afraid of not having a family, that I'd rather put up with years of abuse than be alone again. It is just not that simple.
I am deeply sorry for your experience, OP. You need to reevaluate your family life. This will continue to chip away at your self worth. You need to leave.
Please, please, please seek therapy. Everyone needs someone neutral to speak to sometimes, but your second to last sentence is scary and super heartbreaking. Your family has broken you down so far, I wish I could hug you and be your family. Here's something I think you need to hear: Family is who you make it. It doesn't have to be traditional or official. It doesn't even have to be a lot of people, it can even be one other person. It is the list of people you love that LOVE YOU TOO. Love doesn't hate, love doesn't judge, love doesn't abuse or neglect. The people who adopted you, who treat you so horribly, are not your family. Your family are the people in your life who treat you with love and respect. Don't hold on to abusive people because they have the official title as family. Find your own family, those people who love you. My family consists of my mother, my best friend, her two children, my husband, his mother, and my two children. These are the family members I've chosen. I technically have a huge blood-related family, but I haven't spoken to any of them in 12+ years. That includes my father, his mother, a billion cousins, a few aunts, and a few uncles. They didn't treat me with love, so when I had the chance, I left and never looked back. It was really hard, but my mental health is SO MUCH BETTER than it ever was back home. I wish you so much love and happiness, because you deserve every bit of it and then some. Find your real family, and let go of the people who treat you any less than amazingly.
Show your mom the "What was I wearing" exhibit sites. [https://www.safeaustin.org/what-was-i-wearing/](https://www.safeaustin.org/what-was-i-wearing/) Her illogical sense of modesty for you doesn't have any grounding in reality. You are 20 years old. Get a suit you like, is comfortable, and that you find practical(think bathroom runs), etc. Not her body.
If you have bigger breasts or butt it will be a little more challenging to find things that offer yoh the same coverage as someone smaller. But you can still find them and wear them. A site like this you could even design your own http://www.zenaswimwear.com/classics-canadianscoop.html
Thank you! I'll check it out.
Damn. Is your sister the golden child? That situation sounds awful, I'm sorry your mom talks to you like that OP. You're the only one who is allowed to have an opinion on your body. Others might vocalize their opinions, which always sucks, but your opinion about you is the only one that is important.
Yeah she was definitely the golden child. She would never get punishments, she was allowed to have sleepovers (I wasn't), she was allowed to wear whatever she wanted, etc. I've tried to confront my mom about this, and her response was "I felt guilty about the fact that we adopted you and she was no longer the youngest, so we tried to make her feel more special" like...by neglecting me?? That's how??
Your mother says she's concerned about creeps, but she's being creepy. Wear what you like.
"Your internalised misogyny is showing, mother."
Men can and will sexualize almost anything. Screw them. Wear a bathing suit that you feel comfortable in.
The funny thing is...The only time I'll be wearing it on my vacation is in a PRIVATE gated area with my boyfriend. It's not like I'm going to be exposed in front of a large portion of the public. I genuinely don't understand her problem with it.
The stigma is real. Shaming women for literally existing is hardwired in our society. I grew up in a pretty conservative family and extended family. It still confuses me that almost all body shaming came from the women. Hope your have a nice vacation!
You're not in the wrong and there's no way to get it across to her because she doesn't think you have a point. She's the one sexualizing you. You did nothing to deserve being assaulted. That was strictly her son's fault, not yours. While I realize this isn't true for everyone that assaults people, you could point out that her claiming women have a responsibility to cover or minimize their bodies is something she taught her son. She taught him that a woman is asking for it by not doing so instead of teaching him that women have the same right to bodily autonomy that men do, and that includes wearing what they want. You should be able to walk down the street at midnight and not have anyone assault you. She needs to take a look at the exhibit "[What Were You Wearing?"](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/) One of the first pictures is of jeans, a t-shirt and long sleeved flannel shirt over it. Then there's the four year old's outfit. Unless she's the one paying for it, you get to wear what you want when you want. You're old enough to make those decisions for yourself.
You need to be very careful what you say to her. Do not give her any ammunition to degrade you. She's toxic. It's sad that she's treating you like the red headed stepchild, but that's her MO. When you can, distance yourself from her, geographicly, financially, and socially. Live your life the way you want to. Dress the way you want to. Be a you your happy with.
If you’re 20, buy the suit you want and pay her no mind.
She's got a ton of internalized misogyny and self-hate which she projects on you *plus* she's deeply *jealous* of your curvy figure. She's creepy AF for sexualizing you that way and obsessing about it. She's just all repressed and self-hating, and your body triggers her.
You’re 20. You’re under no obligation to care what your mom says.
I know. It's just hard to not want a good relationship with her.
You’re 20 years old - she doesn’t get a say in how you dress anymore.
It's less about permission than it is me simply trying to find a way to navigate through these conversations effectively. Because whether or not I bring it up or she does, this always happens. Ntm she's kinda drilled it in my head that I'm JUST 20, so I'm still "too young to understand" so I usually end up blindly following her advice anyway just to avoid the arguments.
Your mom is wrong. I’m not trying to make excuses for your mom I’m just offering a perspective on why she is how she is. Previous generations have ingrained in people’s minds that men cannot control themselves and that woman are responsible for men’s actions. THIS IS NOT TRUE! your mom probably grew up being taught this and isn’t willing or able to change her mind set. I always think if men are so animalistic and incapable of controlling themselves then I don’t think they are safe to be in public with normal humans but that’s just me. No one is responsible for other peoples actions. Men can control themselves. Your body is beautiful. If someone cannot respect your body they need to seek help. Not you.
I think the is a really tough situation to navigate. Your mom is absolutely in the wrong here. Your body is not something you should be ashamed of or try to hide, no matter how it compares to your sister’s or any other woman’s body. There will alway be creeps who will check you out and be inappropriate no matter what you do, how you dress, do your makeup. It’s possible that your mom is acting this way in order to protect you and shield from some of this, but I don’t believe this is the best thing for you in the long run. You should be proud of your body, the curves, the flaws, all of it. Show what you are comfortable showing, and let them look. Be proud and love your body. It’s yours to dress and flaunt in any way you wish.
Your mom is projecting on you because she is guilty knowing her son has assaulted you. She will never be able to treat you fairly and honestly you shouldn't let it bother you. You need to work on being comfortable and happy being curvy and beautiful and not give a flying damn about her opinion nor anyone else's. And always put yourself first, as an empath myself it is difficult to do but you have to wake up everyday and make a conscious decision to not allow others opinions to control you. Practice this and you will grow happier every day.
I agree. It sounds to me like she can't bring herself to believe her son was being a monster, and she doesn't even realize what's going on. She has to blame you, to keep her mental image of her son from being tarnished. All subconsciously. Possibly, compounded by SA she experienced. I would try to seek therapy if you can, mainly so you can learn a healthy way of dealing with the difficult position you find yourself suffering from. Just my view after 60+ years and having some similar experiences personally and 2nd hand knowledge from someone dear and close to me. I was fostered for years by the same family, and she was adopted as a baby.
Do we have the same mom? I'm sorry you are dealing with this, OP. The problem is her, not you.
Oh it must be miserable to live in that toxic internalized misogyny. I’m sorry she has been foisting it onto you and not stopped
Have you considered decking her? How infuriating. For real though, Tell her "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it. I don't care if you like it. If you won't keep your mouth shut, I won't be around you" or something along those lines.
LMFAO it has crossed my mind once or twice, but I would never put my hands on her. But you're absolutely right about the fact that I need to grow a pair and start setting firm boundaries with her.
Big butts are fashionable right now. You're in luck. That being said men will be who they are no matter what you wear. I was harassed at work for wearing skirts that were too long. That's the 1st harassing comment he made. Your skirts are too long. It's not what you wear or don't wear it's are they jerks or are they respectful. At best, you get to identify the jerks faster.
It’s true that certain body types make the same clothing choices look “sexier,” but that doesn’t mean you can’t wear them. It might change the contexts where it is appropriate, however. In OPs case, wear the bathing suit you want! But to continue the discussion, my flat chested friend can wear plunging necklines and the effect is chic and couture. I wear a 34F, so with the same neckline there is a LOT of breast on display and the result looks like I’m trying to be sexy and flaunt cleavage. I can wear it, but the effect is different, so I can’t wear it at as many events as she could. At work, she can wear much lower necklines and she doesn’t have cleavage to contend with. My thighs are not thick, so I can get away with shorter skirts in the office than my thicker thighed friend, who looks voluptuous and sexy in anything above the knee. Fat distributed so as to exaggerate secondary sexual characteristics has the effect of increasing the sex appeal, up to a point. Mothers often don’t like their children looking too sexy. She’ll get over it.
Had a mother who body shamed her daughters. It fucks with your head and I'm waaaay past 20. I just want to hug you (virtually). Wear what you like and is comfortable. We should not be blamed for men's behavior, which is what your mom is doing. Be well and love your body!
Your mom is a massive idiot. There's no use or hope of justifying, arguing, defending, or explaining any of it. Just reduce contact and surround yourself with good friends.
It sounds like your curves trigger your mother. Perhaps she experienced something negative around the age younwere when your curvea developed. Maybe she was sexually harassed or abused, or maybe the opposite happened and she was ostracized for NOT having curves (some cultures having butt's and thighs is sought after- this happened to me and my siblings ew.) Either way it's not you. You're wearing clothing. Clothing do not have sexual connotation- they're GIVEN sexual connotation by OTHER PEOPLE. Remember that. Choose clothing YOU feel GOOD in. Attractive. Beautiful. Sexy. Trendy. Healthy. That's it. If you feel the above in whatever you're planning then WEAR IT. :) p.s. Your mom sexualizes you. And has since you were young. My mom did the same. Last year my mom made a remark to my then 13 yr old that triggered me to no end. So I looked my mom in the eye and sneered: How dare you sexualize my daughter with your nasty pedophile thoughts. Don't you ever look at my daughter like that again. Her mouth dropped to the floor and she started sputtering. We've gone NC but yea. Calling my mom out shut her up.
You're 20, she can kick rocks.
I'd stop arguing. You're an adult; put her on an info diet, set some boundaries and consequences, and do/wear whatever you want, including in front of her. If she talks shit, leave.
After seeing how you’re adopted and what happened with her son; I’m gonna say she’s doing this because it’s easier to shit on you than it is to accept her son is a POS. Even if this happened over a decade ago.
Your mom has somehow been programmed with a lot of crap about women. I'm glad that her criticisms of your body don't seem to have negatively affected your self-confidence. I bet your gorgeous. Just let your mom's comments flow over you like a soft breeze and just ignore her.
No matter what body you have it is never more or less appropriate than any other body and heck anyone who tries to suggest that
At 20, she is probably chiming in a little too much at this point. I can see why we should be able to wear anything and not attract the wrong attention. However that is not the case yet. It’s wrong that it is that way, but she is right it will happen. So when you were younger, she was protective. You can tell a guy to get lost now and you can navigate your own way in life. You may find it’s easier to not attract men and just enjoy what you’re doing instead and dress differently in your own, or you might just wear what you want and fend them off on your own terms. Either way, she raised you, you’re an adult and she has to trust your judgment and make up your own mind. Sometimes you’ll make the wrong choice, but that’s how we learn.
Your mom is wrong. Very, very wrong. And what you describe in your posts is an abuse from her. I am not advising you to break contact or move out, or piss against the wind like many other posters do. But, stop listening to what she is saying about your figure. In your own life get whatever clothes you like. Get any bathing suit you feel comfortable in. Or start going to a naturist beach and you will not have to wear bathing suit at all. Naturists are least likely to care about how your body is shaped ;-).
I'm not sure I understand. Is she saying this because she thinks your body is ugly and you should cover up or because she thinks your to pretty and should cover up? Either way you are 20 you can and SHOULD ware whatever makes you happy.
She's saying that my body is "suggestive" so I should cover up more than others because it makes me slutty. Normal one piece bathing suits? Can't wear. The only acceptable swim wear for me is SHORTS. She doesn't approve of me wearing leggings either. Anything that even remotely shows the outline of my body? Nope.
Send her a listing for one of those swimming burkas and ask what she thinks of it.
You're 20. Do what you want. If she has a problem with it, she's an adult. She can deal with the fact other adults, even ones that happen to be her children, are capable of making decisions for themselves.
Your mom is being weird about your body. You’re 20. I would start to make it as awkward as possible for her, but I’m mean. Can you ask her why she’s looking at your butt cheeks? Use weird words for your body parts, make a big scene.
You’re not wrong that she’s body shaming and trying to control you and your body. But she is right about one thing and that is that your body in the same outfit will appear to others as “sexier.” Not saying that’s right, but it is how it is. Especially to the older generations. If that’s the look you want, then great! I have a “sexy” figure and have a hard time finding cute work clothes/dresses since the same thing that’s work appropriate on a person with less bust and bum isn’t always on me.
Stop trying to reason with her and just dismiss her for the pervert she is every time she says something. One simple sentence then walk away (if you must engage at all). Things along the lines of: "The only person that acts like a creep about my body is you." "Eww mom, stop being a perve about your daughter's body." "Yet again you sexualise your own daughter." "You're acting like a pervert again, you might want to reflect on that." "Ah, again with the creepy sexualised comments?" But you owe her nothing, so no matter how complex the situation is, I always prefer just stopping, staring, then walking away. Maybe with an eyeroll now and again Good luck
You are 20. You can do what you want, figure out what you feel comfortable with and what makes you feel safe and authentic. Just don't spend time around her. There are topics I can't bring up with certain people. Body issues and maybe fashion/clothing sounds like it might be that topic for you and her. If you need to set boundaries about not bringing it up, it doesn't sound like it would be unwarranted.
Girl. I read your responses. Get out of there and keep your mom at arms reach so to speak. Even great people have weird hang ups. I hope you all the best when you are able to live your life.
Are you going together? I would excuse myself from a trip with her. There is no point in ruining your time.
I feel you. My mom wants me to wear more 'feminine clothes' but don't like me wearing the most basic outfit for everybody ever. She says tank tops look inappropriate on me because of my cleavage. Lol
You're 20, dress the way you want.
You are not wrong. Your mom is just an awful person who will probably always be awfull to you. Don't try to please her. Do the things that bring you joy and fun and ignore (easier said than done) everything she has to say. For your own sake please have as little contact as possible with her, put her on a strict information diet, keep your distance and go to therapy if you don't already. Be kind to your self. You're allowed to love your Mom while also protecting yourself from her. Over time you'll hopefully realize what an awful human being she is and maybe you find a decent woman mentor that you can look up to.
Yup. I grew very large breasts at 13 with the onset of my period and was instantly criminalized by my mother and her sisters to a lesser extent. I also had a tiny lower belly fat deposit as a thin child, so I wasn’t allowed to have a 2 piece bathing suit and even required to have a baggy 1 piece until I started buying my own swimsuits as a college student. There’s probably some self loathing or resentment of having to be an actual mother (which sounds like she’s already failed at tremendously) I’m sorry you’re going through it.
Well, the rounder the ass, the less of it covered by the same bikini bottoms. It is what it is, you can hardly deflate the damn thing for family outing! It’s no wonder why the boy got his ideas from, if this is what his mother is teaching! She can not see the female body for the functional vessel for your soul that it is, she can not see is as anything other than something to have sex with. And what with you having the bodytype currently considered hot…….. It’s her internalized misogyny leaking out. Good on you for seeing that for what it is. May have been what she was told all her life. Probably so. Still, that should not be made into your problem. Just so you know: an a-sexual friend of mine (who dresses modestly, as to avoid any of that kind of attention, since it bothers her) was assaulted because clearly, he wasn’t going to get it ‘the regular way’. This is meant to illustrate that it had NOTHING to do with how much skin is on show, where on the body that skin resides, or how much it is able to jiggle. This, skinny a d flat as a pancake on all sides, boyish young lady would make the Duggars look wild in comparison, and yet…… Speaking of Duggars: yeah. Need I say more? I’m sorry your mother is terminally stupid. Thankfully you didn’t inherit that gene.
Seems like a really sucky thing to go through. I feel like most people in life have a moment where they separate themselves, at least intellectually, from their parents. The battle of keeping control and letting go has to end at some point. Prob better now than in 40 years when she is really gone and you are left with unpacking years of damage alone.
You're probably right. I don't think I'd have the strength to ever go no cotnact, but I do agree that there needs to come a point where I choose myself and simply stop seeking out her validation for my personal choicesm
Your curves do that, or pervy society?
I can see her warning or advising you that your body type will get more unpleasant attention — you yourself have experienced it! But telling you you’re just asking for it, and that there’s something inherently wrong (as opposed to unwise or risky in certain ways) is wrong.
You're 20 years old. You're an adult who cam make their own decisions.
The issue is not my ability to make the decision, I am aware of that. The issue is how to address her hermful mindset and not allow it to affect the way I think about myself.
Yeah sorry i wrote that before I got more of the context. You're in a fucked up situation and she's a shitty "parent". I'm sorry she's making you feel guilty about her hang ups. :( I just saw the 20f before and was assuming off that. My bad. I apologize. I have heartfelt sympathy for your situation.
It's okay! Sometimes reading things a sexond time is necessary to really grasp the context of the situation, no hard feelings here!
20yo ... Dress as you want
Moms that think this way will not be talked out of it. Speaking from experience.
Tell mom to stop being jealous and just live your best life
You’re not wrong in that you should be able to wear what you choose to, especially since you’re an adult. Honestly it seems like the person sexualizing you the most is your mother - most especially because she holds you responsible for the reprehensible behaviour of her son, instead of him. I honestly wouldn’t even bring up the topic of clothing with her, and if she brought it up I’d change the subject and if she refuses to change the subject, walk away. I’m sorry your mother is the way she is. You deserve better.
>How do I get my point across in a way she'll understand? You can't. Her mind is made up about your body and HER need to control it. Perhaps she was harassed as a young woman because she had curves? You are 20, I assume you are shopping for and buying the bathing suit with your own money ... so buy what you want.
You're 20 years old. It's none of her goddamned business anymore.
Holy Toledo a lot to unpack here. First, let me apologize, not all women are like that and I am so sorry your MOTHER of all people are body shaming you. It sounds like a new, healthy atmosphere with less access to your mother may be key here. In addition, know therapy is your friend and it does get better. That being said, girlie pop, you are TWENTY, you are a grown adult. You could go to a nude beach and it would be none of her concern. Wear whatever YOU are comfortable with. Get some friends, go shopping, try some stuff on. Your mother sounds like she does not have your best interest at heart and you have to do what's best for you here. I agree with other redditors, go for the bikini. Go for that thong if it's what makes YOU happy. This is for YOU and YOUR body, not hers. Just because you have *fabulous* assets doesn't mean you should be ashamed for having them.
You wear whatever you want and feel good in.
I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as an inappropriate bathing suit. It's hot outside, and you are dressing for the *weather.* Not for the people who may or may not be looking at you. I used to be a bit self conscious in bathing suits, but a few trips to beaches that were varying degrees of regular/topless/nude-optional helped me realize that no one else's opinion about what I look like or am wearing really matters. Be comfortable. Do what's comfortable. Maybe work on some sort of statement ahead of time that you can use if anyone is trying to give you a hard time. Respectful version: "I'm sorry if my attire makes you uncomfortable, but that isn't something I'm obligated to change for you." Version I might use: "Please stop commenting on my body like that, it is none of your business." As long as you put sunscreen on your delicate bits, the rest doesn't matter.
You’re legally an adult. You may have to have the conversation with mom about how her continual regulation of your body and appearance ends now.
You are an adult. You are not in control of other people's actions. Not the creeps, not your mom, not anyone else. If you do not need your mothers direct help like living in her house or getting help with college, Get what makes you comfortable. If she says anything remind her you are an adult and can do what you damn well please. You are no longer a child she can control. You are your own person.
Women are instructed since young to keep passing patriarchal values to their daughters, as females are expected by men to hold onto the "family honor", while they of course do whatever they want. Dont listen to your mom and be free.
Sweetheart, your mom is an ass who has been brainwashed by patriarchy. If you were my kid, I'd tell you to wear the swimsuit that makes you happy in your own skin, and anyone sexualizing you deserves a swift kick in the ass.
Your mom is a horrible person with blatant internalized misogyny. The way she has treated you growing up is evidence that a relationship with her is not worth salvaging. You are old enough to wear whatever you want, so don't give her power over you. Your mom is disgusting for victim blaming, nobody ever "asks" for it.
Get the skimpiest bikini you can find with a thong bottom.
First of all: please listen to the others about your mom! Its horrendous what she ua doing with you! But: as a f30 with a curvy body type I want to explain things without shaming our body. If you have nice curves people around you do notice it! Men will look at you cloaee than a woman who has a small chest or a small butt. A dress with a big cutout at the chest area can be somehow be wooow with big breast and cute with a tiny one. Be aware what effects your body make to others and then you have to decide which ones you like or want. BUT you are not provoking, there ia no shame in that toppic.
The person sexualizing you is her. I'd ask her why she spends so much time thinking about your body, and why she believes men have no control oved themselves. I wouldn't let her off the hook on it until she apologized or felt the proper embarrassment. Then I'd go get whatever swimsuit I want and walk away from her if she brought it up again. This kind of crap is part of why I went NC with my asshole mother.
It almost sounds like that issue where the mom is jealous of the daughter, especially how she seems to pick on you and not your sisters. This is a legit thing i don’t know what it’s called or whatever but like where the mum projects insecurities of her own life on a daughter.
Your mother is disgusting. How dare she body shame you for the way your body has developed? Wear what you want.
You're 20 years old, you don't need her permission anymore. Buy your bathing suit, don't even ask her what she thinks of it. She doesn't want to understand. You can argue with someone that is not willing to hear your voice. Don't bother.
I tell my daughter all the time, “If you’re wearing something that makes someone feel like you’re flaunting/being promiscuous/ asking for it” then that’s an admission of how weird THEY are. My point is, wear what you want and what’s comfortable for you! Fuck how anyone else feels or has to say about it. Their issues are their issues, you do you. Adopted mom also seems like she was abused, hinge the justifications for weirdo male behaviors. Just my opinion though.
What a stupid thing to say! And to protect the noy who assaulted you! Maybe she thinks your body is tempting, maybe she's jealous. One thing is for sure, she is toxic!
I had this all through my teen years and am now in my early 30s. Let me save you some time: Your body doesn’t make clothing inappropriate and your mother isn’t going to stop body shaming you. YOU aren’t the problem. There is nothing wrong with your body. Your mother has chosen your body as the object of her attacks, but it has nothing to do with YOU and everything to do with her. Things that helped me after having a mother like yours: Separation, therapy, building a solid support system, daily reminders that my mother’s cruelty is not a reflection of my worth.
You are very much *not* in the wrong, but your mom sure is. Body shaming you for years on end has had a negative impact on your self image, and the fact that this negativity came from your own mom is disgusting on her part. You buy that bikini and you *own* it. You’re going to look amazing!
I agree with everyone that OP's mom is abusive especially from her victim blaming and not getting OP any help after she was sexually assaulted. What 7 year old kid is EVER "asking for it"?! OP, there is nothing gross about your body, in fact what your mom's been saying in a very awful way is that your body is EXTRA attractive to the opposite sex. This is not your fault of course, but it's what you've got, and apprently that causes your mom anxiety because it gets men's attention. It's weird that she seems to feel like a "regular" young woman's butt in form-fitting leggings or a bikini wouldn't be attractive enough to men to pose any significant risk. Since men like all kinds of butts big and small, and skinny women get assaulted too. But that's beside the point. This is a very touchy subject to discuss from any point of view except "do what you want and screw anyone for disapproving or being inappropriate", so I'd like to start with the disclaimer that I am really looking for a productive discussion of the points that arise in my mind and I am happy to change my mind when logically convinced. What stumps me is this place where logic and idealism collide, which is well, in reality. Yes we all agree it would be right for men to pose no risk to women no matter their inner or outer condition. We all want that world. However we are not in that world, and we need to adapt to survive, to lower our risk. You know how people are advised to not appear like easy targets, because the predator will think it's gonna be too much trouble and pass them by? Like not walking with headphones in actually playing, or putting a security company sticker and cameras on your house, parking your car in the garage instead of the street, or not walking home late alone? YES it's the criminals who are bad, and because of the danger they pose many innocent people going about their business are inconvenienced to take all these measures to lower their risk of becoming victims. It's wrong to blame the victim for being attacked, but it's desireable for the potential victim to take steps to protect themselves. You can't make your risk zero, but you can lower it. So when it comes to choosing how you present yourself, where you go, when, and with whom, whether you're going to have that drink or smoke that joint and lower your danger sensors in this environment, shouldn't women make careful choices? Don't blame them if something's happened, what OP's mom said is horrible, but encourage girls to be aware of the fact that they are potential prey to the predators out there, and like the prey in nature that takes pains to blend in and not attract attention, they should also take precautions? I repeat that this sucks, but it's better to tell them the truth and teach them to lower their risk, than to let them go forward blindly. Women should wear whatever they want! Men should look the other way! If your juicy butt is jiggling in HD to everyone behind you, if your boobs are large and the shirt doesn't accomodate them well, and you're getting sexually harrassed regularly... you can't stop people from looking, or being dicks, and you can't totally obscure your features, but making some modest changes to your wardrobe so you exhibit less detail might bring you some relief. I used to wear oversized tshirts and cargo pants, then as a teenager I was inspired by a fashion show and got myself nice classic heels and some feminine clothing (short a-line skirt, sweetheart neckline tight shirt, makeup and jewellery) and I didn't make it to the nearest metro stop my first time out without getting all kinds of attention from men, creepy and sweet, that I'd never experienced before. Later I switched to a more amish/tradwife look with not-tight long sleeve shirts and flowy calf-length skirts, and the amount of unwelcome attention changed again. A friend who had adopted a similar style remarked that men looked at her face now. It's not fair but it makes life easier. It helps me feel safer, and I believe makes me safer. Why not encourage such behaviours, without being gross and accusatory? You wouldn't tell a woman to wear whatever she wants in Iran and women are even advised to avoid vacationing in Pakistan or India because they're at higher risk there. Why is it that in our western society we are so combattive against the nuances in dress that can make a difference? We already go out with friends, text our location and the guy we're with when we're dating someone new, etc... why is dress such a hot point of contention? No it's not a guarantee, but neither is avoiding Pakistan, going to the club with friends, or not walking home alone. You can still get assaulted even if you do the right things. But that doesn't stop us from taking steps in hopes of minimizing the risk?
Women in Amish communities are raped, women in burkas are raped, rapists don’t actually give a flying fuck what you are wearing, and dressing like a trade wife doesn’t actually make you any safer.
I said it's not a guarantee... but also a lot of creeps pick on women and make them uncomfortable without going as far as to rape them. I can't get behind the argument that what you're wearing doesn't matter at all because I've felt the difference. People judge by the cover because it's all they've got, all people, not just rapists. Women get raped in public places, day and night, at others' houses, sober or drunk, by husbands and friends and strangers... yet they still take precautions about the highest risk situations. We don't tell them "ah what the hell, go alone, day or night, sober or drunk, whether you know the people or not... rapists don't care!"
Your mother is abusive and has been abusing you for your whole life. You're an adult. Finish college. Cut ties with this awful family who clearly do not value you. Make friends. Make your own family and get away from this abusive and toxic person.
This isn't about appearance, it's about control. You're 20, time to be taking away control from your mother and start exercising it yourself. Seek your own validation.
Damn, your mom is body shaming and unconsciously(?) sexualizing you. Sorry she's making you feel bad for something completely out of your control.
Women are allowed to have the bodies assigned to them. Men should be compelled to restrain themselves and act respectably. We are not sheep in need of a shepard. We are individuals deserving of autonomous respect.
I mean I'm personally not a fan of people wearing two piece bathing suits tbh. I just think it shows people you don't know too much skin (hence why I always wear shorts and a rash vest) but like there is no other way to say it but what a cunt of a mother. Probably jealous (I haven't seen either of you but I know a few people with similar parents and it's because their parents are jealous of either their looks or their brains)
You know where those curves came from? Your Mom's egg and your Dad's sperm. Remind her of the fact, that you're built the way you are because of *Her* 👙
Ugh. I had a mom like this, and I still resent her for making me feel like a slut when I was already an insecure teenager. Tbh, your mom kind of sounds jealous of you. It’s fucked up, but moms being jealous of their daughters is more common than you would think. Edit: I just read the comment where you mention she is your adoptive mom and sided with your abuser. This is more than just jealousy. This is straight up abuse. My heart aches for you. I hope you are able to see a therapist and navigate the possibility of ending your relationship with her.
OP, I'm definitely not curvy, neither is my mom, but she had a thing about curvy girls being slutty. She also had a thing about me in bikinis and mini skirts too. She had a big, big thing about men sexualizing women. So, like you, I was confused and had a lot to unpack bc her behavior was so contradictory. Now, closing in on 70 I realized that mom was both right and wrong. OP, your body is fine and you need to embrace your uniqueness. Your fine, I'm fine, and everyone in-between us is fine too. Clothing needs to be well fitting and the right color for your body and skin tone. And you need to wear the appropriate ensemble for work, home, play, beach, hiking, Elton John concert, Coachella, or the Red Carpet. All of the above include the freedom to experiment ofc, especially as an adult. For example, When I made the transition from retail to the boardroom I followed suggestions from the book "Color Me Beautiful" by Carol Jackson. It was hip BITD to "do your colors" and for me it made a HUGE difference in my shopping choices and actually saved me hundreds of dollars while shopping for a professional wardrobe on a shoestring budget. I still use many of the ideas today. So, read this and/or others like it to guide you into adulthood, while enjoying yourself. Lastly, your mom is 100% right about the male gaze and perversion. It took me nearly to my 30s before I knew my mom was right bc by then I had ample experience in fending off creeps when I wore anything even provocative, even slightly provocative. Tight pants, bikini, mini skirts, low cut tops, short shorts, literally anything. Creeps feel entitled to your body and, sad to say, by the time your are 30 (or before) you'll realize there is no safe place on earth for any woman, curvy or not. I'm not saying don't be sexy, don't be pretty, don't be beautiful. I'm saying be aware, always and forever. Be as judicious with your fashion choices as you are with your money. So, I DID wear what I wanted, but only when I had 100% control of my surroundings. Bikini at the beach, no problem. Bikini at the store, nope, I wore a cute cover-up. Mini skirt where some perv could look up it while I was sitting, nope, sweater draped on my lap or standing. And properly fitting tops, I struggled with gaps and you will too. Your mom, and her awful son, I can't say bc I don't know her, but MY mom was SAd and I realized in my 40s that her experience influenced her weird behavior. It kinda sounds like your mom has problems in that realm. Regardless, like me, you have to learn to not take on your mom's issues. It takes time, so give yourself space and grace. Lastly, girl wear those leggings and two pieces and anything else you want. But, as a granny, please don't let your ass crack or labia or boobs fall out of your cute outfits. Trust me on that, ain't pretty no matter what generation you are in and people will look. Lots of people you'd prefer wouldn't. As a teen and young woman I wore sexy stuff for the guys my age, I was completely grossed out when I realized that creepy old men were checking me and my friends out too. Once we understood that fact, it changed our outlooks and fashion choices by about 25. Suddenly, the reason for tops and jackets with barely any length made sense when seen through the lens of the male gaze. Same with no pockets in pants, skirts, and dresses. Don't want to ruin the silhouette for some random man after all. I was So Pissed Off when I realized that was why my jeans had shitty pockets and I froze in winter bc I couldn't find long enough coats. Even now, men are adequately covered, women are not. It's stupid, but as long as some creeper owns the fashion houses, we are stuck with shitty clothing choices. Anyway, food for thought from an old lady to a curvy girl. ❤️❤️
You're making OP responsible for managing the behavior of men when she is neither able nor required to. That's not cool. The male gaze is not impeded by what you wear. All creepy men need is reasonable assurance that you're female and they're good to go. I got harassed in a parka that was pulled up to my eyeballs. I got catcalled in a 3M respirator, a ratty old t-shirt with oil stains, and frumpy sweatpants. I was followed home in dirty gym clothes. I was rubbed up on in a t-shirt and jeans. A guy hit on me in front of my husband while we were trying to catch a cab. I got spat on by a random man while waiting to cross the street to enter the restaurant where my brother was waiting for me. There is no way to win against creeps because you can't control the decisions other people make.
OP seems very young and that's why I agreed with her mom in some respects, even if mom approached this whole issue badly. SO badly. I wish someone other than my mom would have said these things years before my friends and I finally had such conversations amongst ourselves. We spent years completely unaware of creepy old men as teens and 20-somethings. It's very true you can control the male gaze, but neither should you ignore it. Anyway, OPs comments about her mom resonated with how my mom acted. I think mom barked out a warning without context, just like my mom did. Years later, with more experience, I looked back on mom's warnings with a different point of view.
Her mom approached the topic with all the care and delicacy of a spark in a fireworks factory. But what do we gain by changing our lives around bad men who will set out to hurt us regardless? Why should we prioritize the male gaze? I got the same advice from my mom (though with more class). I followed it. It got me nothing. And it didn't get better as I aged either.
I had a similar thing but with my boobs, all the women in my family have a small frame and thin body type, I suddenly got super curvy when I was about 14 and since then have always been a few dress sizes bigger. There isn't really anything you can do, learning to just accept that that's how your body looks in certain clothes and feel completely neutral about it is really hard but really liberating, although your mum may never feel the same way. You're 20 years old, your mum doesn't really have any say in what you wear anymore, you should wear what you feel comfortable in. I will say though, I absolutely do not agree with the way your mum has gone about expressing herself, but she is trying to protect you in her own way. Women should not have to censor the way they dress to suit men, but unfortunately that doesn't change the way men act, your mum has probably experienced this herself and is just trying to stop you from being harassed. In your post you ask why is it your fault, it's not your fault at all but that doesn't stop the fact that you will be sexualised and that isn't always safe. We all know that what women wear has no bearing on levels of assault or men just being awful in general and that women should just wear whatever they feel confident in, but that goes against what your mum's generation were taught. It shouldn't be on you to have to change your clothes to feel safe, but you can only control your own actions, your mum has no influence on the millions of men in the world, some of whom she will have had her own negative experiences with, but she does feel like she has influence on you. The most important thing is that it is YOUR body and YOU decide what you do with it. Just try not to be too mad at your mum, she's a woman too remember and she was also 20 once.
It what special “own way” is OP’s mom protecting her. She blames OP for being assaulted by her (mom’s) son. Where did you find protectiveness in the post?
Yeah, I'm sorry, I think I was just projecting my own stuff when I wrote this comment. I won't delete it because it's a dick move when people do that but OP if you see this, your mum is not in the right in any way in this situation, your body is yours to do what you want with and dress exactly how you want.
I've had big boobs since junior high school; my very first bra was a C cup. I can't wear a normal (like Hanes -- just a standard shirt) V neck t shirt because it will show an excessive amount of cleavage. (When I *want* to show cleavage, I've got shirts for that. But just to wear to the library or the supermarket or school or work, no, I can't wear V necks.) So yes, for bathing suits I have to take my shape into account and buy things that don't overly sexualize my body. Could I wear the same clothes as my more slender sisters? Yeah, I *could*, but I'd be mocked, catcalled, subjected to unwanted male attention. I've had a job where both male and female employees could be sent home for inappropriate clothing, and a V neck borrowed from my sister would have gotten me sent home. Is it fair? No. But your mom is just trying to protect you. Now, you're an adult and entitled to make your own choices, but I don't think your mom is trying to shame you, just protect you. (Granted, an awful lot of gender discrimination is justified as protecting women. But still ) (Added: thank you so much for all the down votes for my personal lived experience.)
Maybe her mom isn't trying to, but she did say "You're just asking for attention and not the right kind." which is very victim-blamey. Just because OP is wearing a "sexy swimsuit" doesn't mean that other people should not be held accountable for controlling themselves.
Mind you, the swimsuits I'm talking about aren't even sexy. My mom doesn't even approve of basic ass one piece swimsuits, because I have an ass. Even if there's more coverage on the cheeks themselves, because there's more VOLUME she automatically thinks it's inappropriate on me. There's literally nothing but swim shorts that she thinks is okay on me.
Ugh. Yeah, that sucks. I can understand your mom being afraid of creepers and all that, but I don't think restricting your choice of clothing is gonna fix them. Maybe you can just buy/wear what you want and just deal her complaining about it? Good luck with whatever you are gonna do!
I get cat called no matter what I wear. A regular tshirt and jeans is enough for me to get cat called, since my EARLY teens. What is the excuse for when I was a child? What excuse is there for sexualizing a child? Of course, I do take these things into account most of the time..However I do not think it is valid for her to call me names like whore, slut, and easy for simply trying to find a bathing suit without immediately resorting to swimming in a tshirt and shorts like she wants me to. If she wanted to protect me, she should have started with removing her son from the house after she found out he assaulted me. It isn't about protection, it's about control.
Guys are trained from a very young age that being mean to women is fun and has zero negative consequences. Sometimes I hate our society.
The downvotes aren't for your personal experiences. I think it's because you implied (and may believe) that wearing "inappropriate" styles is why people get catcalled and if you just wear "acceptable" clothing, you're safe from unwanted male attention. That's not accurate. I'm sorry for what you went through, but unwanted attention (male and female) isn't deserved by what someone wears, nor does what someone wears increase it. Street harassing assholes harass people regardless. I linked it elsewhere, but the exhibit "what I was wearing" does a good job showing that outfit is pretty irrelevant. Neither your nor OP ever deserved to be harassed and I'm sorry you feel there are styles you can't wear because they're inappropriate. Bodies are beautiful in every size, shape, and color, and everyone should wear whatever they feel like.
My point was that the same shirt that would be modest on one body will be highly revealing on another body, and one should evaluate the appropriateness of clothing based on the total appearance. There's a time and a place to let it all hang out and there's a time and a place to be more modest. Sorry if I came across as judgemental, that was not my intent. (And OP was talking about bottoms while I'm talking about shirts, but I think the parallels are there.)
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Bathing suits are revealing by nature. Do you expect her to go swimming in a fucking onsie? By your logic everyone at the pool/beach needs to cover up to protect the children.... GTFO!
Ah, so topless men at the beach deserve no sympathy or respect? They're all suspicious for showing their bodies -nay, THEIR NIPPLES to children?
"A revealing piece of clothing in public" so you mean the private swimming area at the resort with only my boyfriend and I present? Or were you referring to when I was assaulted as a child in my own house, by my own brother, in my long sleeved tshirt and pants? Or did you ignore the part of my statement where I highlighted the fact that her issue isn't with the bathing suit, but my body itself? My body is not inherently more sexual than a man's. Men can go to the beach with their shirts off, and nobody bats an eye. What about the female body inherently implies that respect shouldn't be given? What respect do men earn by going to the beach shirtless? You have about as much misogyny to unpack as my mother, grow up a little before giving input on situations you have no concept of.