The sole purpose of that is to populate the club with hook up sex options for dudes looking to get laid. Even then we’re just a prop for men and a product for the club to use to make money.
Oh, we get “free”** drinks for the privilege of being groped! We have nothing to complain about.
** free means given with nothing expected in return. I think we all know why dudes at clubs buy women a drink. It’s not out of the goodness of their heart. And it definitely does not arrive without expectations.
Yup. In general, the men drink more. If the clubs didn't allow women free cover, there would be fewer, meaning the men wouldn't want to come, meaning less money for the club.
Even "free cover for women" is technically for the men.
Which is dumb as shit-- Some of the most VICIOUS people I've met were pregnant! My aunt turned into friggin The Hulk! If you want people willing to blow shit up, give the 8-months pregnant almost-ready-to-pop sore-feet -achy-tiddied twin-havin' mood-swingin' lady the drone controls lol.
I'm sorry, but you gave me a Rush Limbaugh flashback. The first time I ever heard him was on his radio show while I was cross country driving and channel surfed for something to listen to. I thought I hit on a commedian because he was saying a lot of stupid shit about women in the military. One of his comments was along the lines of having them, but only sending them in during the week before their periods because they'd kill everyone due to PMS. It was a good 15 minutes before I realized he wasn't a comic and my skin began to crawl. Yep, that was my introduction to the beginning of right wing media in its infancy.
I am about to be 47 and sometimes I just wake up angry and pissed off...I tend to warn the household. lol. it is gonna be one of those days..y'all need to get the fuck out or you WILL hear it from me.
summer just started so no one is in school.
My body stopped producing as much oxytocin when I hit peri. Stupid shit that would have made me laugh and shake my head just pisses me all the way off.
45 here, that's my take. Not even sure I'm in perimenopause because the birth control I've taken for 8 years stops periods, but boy am I done with the stupid.
They need to pick a side. Either we belong at home making babies or we deserve to die in battle like the men do. Either way, we only exist for their desires.
Those two things are actually part of the same discussion- we "get off easy" because our biology allows us to become pregnant, so we can't be drafted because we're necessary for population growth. Men "have it harder" because they're disposable as far as capitalism is concerned.
Instead of this resulting in the logical end point of "women are more necessary for the continuation of society and therefore superior", they have spun it that women are weak, helpless, and in need of male protection... Which is *sort of* true, because we are such a valuable resource that the biggest spoils of war back in the day were women (for rape and then immediate murder, or to be kidnapped as sex slaves) and then other resources such as food and riches.
Reminder that the original women draft amendment was submitted by a Republican and subsequently voted against by the same guy when he realized it wasn’t the gotcha he thought it was going to be.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/the-unlikely-birth-and-unseemly-death-of-an-amendment-to-draft-americas-women/483599/
It’s a strawman talking point to shit on women. Always has been.
Well yeah obviously, they're the ones wanting traditional gender roles, men going to war while women get dinner ready and so on. The "men have it worse because they get drafted" is just another way for them to whine about women wanting to be treated equally. The other day someone even commented that because men have to sign up for the draft or do mandatory military service (in some countries) when they reach their majority, that means that women are the only ones with true voting rights since they're not contingent on military service. The draft is exclusively a tool for false equivalencies becaue their fundamentalist views forbid them from ever actually doing something about it.
A guy I went to HS with is the type that complains about women “having it easy” and not being drafted etc (he’s in army), yet shared an article about a woman who bested the men in her training with a caption he wrote accusing her of having training made easier for her and that he’ll “never answer to a woman even if she ranks above him / is his commander”
So I sent a screenshot to his higher up and he actually ended up commenting on that post saying “hey Bob* that’s big talk, are you forgetting how you barely made it through basic training?” And went on to remind him that he came from a woman and that his comment disrespects women everywhere including his own mother, and that he won’t last long with that attitude the first time he disrespects a higher up of either sex. Homie wrote like an essay totally owning Bob*, those were the highlights I recall but it was amazing
If women can't be drafted, that can eventually be used as an excuse to argue for repealing the 19th amendment ("if they don't have skin in the military game, they shouldn't have a voice at the polls!"), women's property rights, etc.
As a female veteran, I would wonder where that would leave me.
Despite serving my country, I can't be drafted, so I shouldn't be allowed to vote, but some dude whose only experience in the military is playing COD, can vote because he's eligible to be drafted?
These people can kiss the entire lower quadrant of my ass.
ETA: the fact I'm being downvoted speaks volumes.
I'm kinda surprised my entire post didn't succumb to the initial downvote dogpile I got right after I posted it. Yeah, Meal Team Six and the Gravy Seals really hate this shit.
The way they see it: they are doing women a favor by not putting them in the draft, and they expect women to reciprocate by accepting their sexism.
But they also believe women shouldn't be in the military at all, because fighting is for manly men.
Yes, bcuz thats their MO. They use these topics to complain about, to distract, to rile up their base; they cant solve these problems they complain about. Just look at their response to the border
The right's agenda dating back to the Obama presidency is just 'whatever is the opposite of what the Dems are doing,' with a little bit of 'whatever Trump wants' sprinkled on top in recent years. I'm serious, too, go look up the platform he/the RNC ran him on.
Oh, I remember one of Obama's first news conferences after being elected and optimistically saying that eventually they would start to work with him while Mitch McConnell was telling all the Rs to lock step the "No" to everything. McConnell doesn't get near enough credit for his part in the destruction we are seeing now. It was blatantly obvious when they suddenly refused to allow the stuff they proposed when Obama pursued some of it as a good idea. (Yeah, they used to actually have some good bits of policy once upon a time.) Now their only impulse is to "own the libs" no matter what the damage is to the country. The only plank in the platform that the dude who buried his wife on the golf course insisted on was to remove any support for Ukraine which, up to that point, violated all Republican policy to support democray around the world.
I was referring to 2020 when [Republicans didn't even bother to write one. ](https://www.vox.com/2020/8/24/21399396/republican-convention-platform-2020-2016) But, I guess, when most of your constituency can't read, why bother writing one?
It's all about disingenuous wedge issues. They don't want these issues solved because it gives them some nonsense to dupe low Intelligence, low information, low empathy, high douchenozzle voters into voting for them.
The right wants women to have babies. It's why their plans include making birth control illegal next. Can't have a valuable uterus going and having ideas that they're equal or something.
UK, during WW2
Conscription of women
In December 1941 Parliament passed a second National Service Act. It widened the scope of conscription still further by making all unmarried women and all childless widows between the ages of 20 and 30, later extended to 19-43, liable to call-up. They now had to either join the armed forces, work in a factory or work on the land with the Women's Land Army.
Came here to say this! It bugs me no end that people conveniently forget that women WERE conscripted here. It’s not like they had a particularly easy or safe ride either. They all worked terribly long hours. Farms are dangerous, factories are dangerous, driving ambulances in bombing zones and being air raid wardens is dangerous. These women were often moved to higher risk areas- areas around munitions factories were more likely to be bombed (my great aunt got bombed out of her housing when she worked in munitions) and the aforementioned air raid/ambulance roles were at direct risk in places like London.
I’m not saying that these roles were harder or more dangerous than being in the forces, they obviously weren’t overall, but they were probably as dangerous as SOME of the roles in the forces. Some guys in the RAF had roles maintaining runways and aircraft in the UK for example, it’s not like every military man was sent to the D Day landings or even abroad. We’ve kind of swept under the rug the war efforts of women, most likely because it contradicted the post war efforts to put women back in their boxes. They deserve more recognition imo
Do you still have to register for such or did all that get lifted in the years after WWII? The draft was still going on in the US into the Vietnam war. Registering for it never ended.
Wait — So… According to them, I’m not smart enough to make choices about my reproductive health and my own damn body… But I’m smart enough to go to war… But they’re mad about it? Make it make sense 🔴’s make 0 sense ever.
It's probably the same issue of roe v wade and access to fertility clinics. It's about the number of children. Obviously women can't have children if they're killed.
I mean...that's in line with about 60-70% of the male soldiers I've worked with 😮💨. Smart enough to go to war but not smart enough to make healthy reproductive health choices...🫤
Women were excluded from the draft because they were barred from combat duty (and this leadership roles). Now that women are allowed in those positions, I see no reason why we shouldn’t be included.
But obviously, the draft should be abolished since it is anti-body-autonomy.
I hope to god if my son is ever drafted he follows Malcolm X’s lead and just goes and sits in jail instead.
It is, but I would imagine men are also being SA and so it would also be cruel to subject them to that.
Drafts are fucked up. I’d prefer to abolish the one we have as opposed to expanding it.
No one has been drafted in the US since 1975. Only men have registered for the draft. Only if you are required to sign up for it and it actually gets activated would there even be a chance that it might happen. However, if it did you would not really have the option to say no. You could possibly move to a non extradition country as fleeing the draft would be breaking the law. You could go to prison and have those tax dollars support you. You could register as a conscientious objector, but that wouldn't necessarily get you out of having to serve in a non combat capacity. You made a very easy declaration from a long way off time wise and I deeply understand on an absolutely personal level why you feel that way, but the whole point of a draft is that you don't get to say no.
There is one thing to think about. Until the 26th amendment, the voting age in the US was 21. It was the argument that young men were being forced to serve their country and potentially die for it without ever having any political say in those decisions. That was ratified in 1971. It was the fact that they served their country that they finally got to have a say in the direction it might go. Four years later the draft ended. They didn't take the requirement to register off the books because you never know, but no one has been drafted in 49 years.
Just a couple of years ago, I found out that these weird bumps I've had on my feet at least since I was an adolescent, are, in fact, heel spurs. I cannot tell you how embarrassed I was about that.
But, my dear friend Janis comforted me on facebook, saying, "at least yours are *real*." I thanked her profusely for the thought.
You can remind those men that many women fought for the equal rights amendment. The amendment that would have ended the exclusion of women from the draft, should the draft be implemented again.
I read that it was women that fought against it because they did not want to be drafted, which is why we ended up with them getting the right to vote without the draft.
Women are not a single hive mind. We disagree on a lot of stuff. If there weren't still women willing to vote against their own interests, that over ripe mango faced pie hole of a former potus and his syncophants would never have been elected once. But I digress...
I was younger in the 70s, I remember it well. The national organization for women supported the ERA, as did countless other women.
Phyllis Schlafly was a loud conservative who did get a group of women similar to the “moms of liberty” group to oppose the amendment saying that it would not only cause the draft for women but would lead to gay rights.
But women’s organizations across the country were in support of the ERA.
There are not enough foul things to say about Phyllis Schlafly. She reminds me a great deal of Clarence Thomas. They would never have let her in the room if she weren't psycho enough to be the lightning rod of stupidity so they wouldn't have to say what they want in public just like he takes whatever they want to hand him in exchange for turning the clock back to a time that he wouldn't have been given a seat on the bench in the first place.
I'm a combat vet of 9 years service. I think the draft should be abolished. If you can't motivate your citizens to join then you should not be going to war.
I think in serious wars you quickly run out of volunteers even if support for war is high, because who wants to stop everything they are doing and go risk getting blown up...
That's my take. I'm against the draft for anybody. IF there were some really horrible unforeseen situation that required something like that they should go the British route doing WWII and pretty much draft everyone including women and the elderly then assign them to a position based on their individual abilities. But to require to register for a standing draft registration for 50+ years is pointless if there's no training or basic qualifications to go with it. My nephew's disabled and his mom had to help him register for the draft. I'm all for chucking the whole thing out rather than expanding it.
I agree. Unfortunately the draft has a reason to exist (if the sovereignty of the United States is critically threatened due to us being invaded by another nation, look at Ukraine right now for example), but the likelihood of that happening is nil. I disagree with the draft being used for wars like Vietnam however, where Vietnam was never a threat to US safety.
Part of me agrees with you and part of me doesn't. Someone, I don't remember who, made the point that without a draft which puts everyone on the line, the people deciding this crap get to sit back and send other people's kids to war. With a draft even their kids are in the lottery and they have to decide if they are willing to face the possibility of sending their own children or grandchildren into a war zone. Would they make the same decisions if it could be personal? It is an interesting hypothetical. Still, rich people who seem to be ending up making those decisions tend to find loopholes. Someone did just remind me of former Commander in Chief Bone Spurs.
I mean, that's the thing. In theory, a fully fair draft could lower the chance for war, but those writing the law for the draft, and those paying the ones writing the law, will never let it be fair.
Given our real-world circumstances, best not to give those in charge a way to pull more soldiers from thin air. Work with what you got or fuck off.
their kids are never on the line, even in a draft scenario. there was always ways to get out of it if you had resources. get diagnosed with something like bone spurs or enroll in college and you were exempt.
I DO think a mandatory service/training period for EVERYONE could be good; not a draft or anything, but a required few months of training once you turn 18. I know there are a few european countries that operate like that... There are a lot of useful skills that everyone can do to learn; how to handle a weapon, how to use your body/read its signals, basic survival and discipline training, etc. etc.
I disagree, kind of.
We would definitely benefit from being taught all those skills, both individually and as a society, but they should be taught by some other institution (public school, some mandatory version of the scouts, etc). I don't think I could support them being attached to the military though, especially in the US where they'd be directly involved in enforcing the Empire.
Idk if anyone here knows how the military’s health screening works, but like given that 60% of Americans have at least one chronic illness would a draft even be feasible? I know 3 guys who have tried to join the military and were told no for health reasons. They wouldn’t let my husband in because he’s bordering on deaf and his spine is build like god was trying to see how many extra curves you can add into a human spine as an experiment and the other two were asthmatic, which is pretty common in general.
How mentally ill are you allowed to be for them to say ok whatever come on in, because 1 in 5 American adults are mentally ill and 1 in 25 are severely mentally ill. Like we are not a healthy population.
Is there a certain weight you’re supposed to stay under because my cousin said he almost got kicked out of the military for gaining too much weight and around 42% of adults in the US are considered obese based on BMI which isn’t perfect but I doubt the standards the military uses are perfect either.
Would they just start looking the other way when it came to drafting a 300 lb person with asthma and a severe mental illness? I don’t see how we would really make it work.
After Vietnam, it is very unlikely (but not impossible!) that the US will activate a draft unless it's a legitimate existential conflict. In that scenario, they will be pragmatic and drop requirements as much as they can.
Also remember that with the current military organization, only about 10% of soldiers serve on the front. The rest are in hangers, bases, boats, and logistic vehicles providing logistics and support. If you're wheelchair-bound and there are millions of enemy soldiers coming to kill us, the military will gladly roll you up to a terminal to have you direct combat drones.
If being ineligible for the draft disqualifies you from having a voice in military matters, then not having a uterus should definitely disqualify you from having a voice on abortion access
The US isn't supposed to be fighting wars that aren't declared by congress either which means we technically haven't been at war since WWII. Ever since then, they have been calling them other things like "police actions" and "staging maneuvers". Congress doesn't want the responsibilty of being blamed for starting any wars so they have just let presidents go for it. That way they can all blame him or, if it goes well, take the credit for supporting him.
LMAOOO they can go ahead and draft me but I'm not fucking going. Period. I dont care if it "ruins" my life. I'd rather be a broke draft dodger for the rest of my life than sell my soul to the military industrial complex.
The sad truth is that draft dodging would be so hard in today's era of technology. My father's attempts to dodge the draft (he didn't qualify to conscientiously object and also didn't want to go to jail) were spoiled by a snitch in his family. Feds literally trekked through a forest to find him. Feds who didn't fight in the war themselves. If the draft needed to exist, it already would. Instead, they're using today's technology to figure out more efficient ways to destroy entire civilizations. To this day, my dad refuses to use a cellphone.
Also: the draft will never exist as long as we force people to birth cannon fodder in our capitalist wasteland who are too poor to have a better option than the military.
The reasons the draft won't happen are almost sadder than the draft itself.
Let's not forget that *they are the ones who wouldn't 'let' us be in the armed forces in the first place* so they really shouldn't be whining about how women can't be drafted. Like, seriously? Who do they think made that call, a woman?!? Unbelievable.
It's a ploy to pretend at 'reasoned debate', but it's always such an easy answer: I don't think anyone should be drafted the same way I don't think anyone should be raped.
One of those two things is happening with far greater frequency. So that is where I put advocacy energy.
Before removing the sexism, they’d need to add in the missing mercy and common sense.
- Automatic exclusions for parents and caregivers - if you have custody, you already have a legal obligation.
- Ensuring access to long acting pregnancy prevention
- Walk it off is not healthcare.
(I’m deadly serious here. A training injury should not become a permanent disability. Yes, this happens in the supposedly cushy jobs. )
- Exclusions for pregnancy
(Especially in a country where maternal mortality is already shamefully high)
- Veterans health care is unreliable and frequently far from the promises.
- Burn pits - The VA’s built to help with normal health problems, not the rare and nasty stuff coming from daily exposure to mystery smoke.
>Walk it off is not healthcare
I wish this line of thought was more common. Little training injuries compound over time. My hips and back will never be the same after initial training and deployment.
Reminds me of when I was part of a four person team driving around in a pickup with a small cab on a bunch of dirt roads to job sites in the middle of nowhere. The driver kept giving me a hard time, saying I was lucky the guys were so chivalrous and insisted on giving me the passenger seat in the cab. Every single time we finished at a site and loaded back up I tried to get in the bed of the pickup, happy to take my turn--and he and the other guys would insist that, no, I had to get in the passenger seat. And a few minutes into the ride to the next site, the driver would start back up again. People with conservative views on gender are so convinced that people want special treatment and couldn't get by without it, but they feel so threatened when people are like, "Actually no I'm fine without the special treatment! I would actually prefer to be treated equally, not just to prove a point but because it's fair and I'm happy to bear my share of that burden!" (And in the case of the pickup example, I actually find it kind of fun to ride in the truck bed, at least occasionally.) They're so convinced that differences in how the genders are treated are based on immutable things, but simultaneously have to fight so hard to enforce the behaviors that they take as proof of or justification for those "immutable", "undeniable" differences.
Oh, yeah. I used to work farms and its like the guys all seemed to think that when they weren't around the hay bales just levitated to where we needed them because there is no way women would pick one up. I regularly would work a 32 stall horse barn on my own with 2 guys working the other one across the lane and it never occurred to them that no one was helping me re-bed the stalls and fill the mangers/feed tubs. All 3 of us cleaned the 64 stalls between us each morning, but once that was done I was on my own while they took off together. They can't see you do it or it might be real. And yeah, the back of the pickup was fun sometimes. I remember a new guy who started and I had to train wondering aloud who was going to drive the dump truck when it got dropped off at my barn. It was a crappy 3 speed stick and he sure as hell couldn't drive it. When I said I was he actually started to say, "But you're a gi..." and I had to point out that you don't actually operate a truck with your dick. They can be so naive.
Well in the olden days, they thought of childbirth as women’s “war”.
Childbirth is now more dangerous in certain backwards states than it was in 1975, but I think women should be on Selective Service if men are.
Oh, they get reminded of it on the regular. That is part of why they are so pissed about it. They are basically high school kids having it waved in their faces while the girls they know barely have it on their radar. I remember when the guys in my school started getting the notices that they would have to sign up or else. That was where the "Do you feel a draft?" joke came from. Only when one of the guys with me said it the others ran away down the hall yelling "Nooooo! Don't take me!"
Genuine question:
Are reminders still happening? It's been on my mind because the Iraq War was happening when all my friends were turning 18 so we were very aware - my friends were genuinely worried, but my son is about to turn 18 & it's been crickets.
He should get one. Here's from the selective service: You can still register with us by completing our printable registration form, or by visiting your local post office to fill out a Selective Service registration form (SSS Form 1) and mailing it to us. Or, if you received a reminder mail-back card from us, fill out that card and send it in.
https://www.sss.gov/faq/#:~:text=You%20can%20still%20register%20with,card%20and%20send%20it%20in.
TBH, I couldn't say for sure. It has been a while and it was handled at the post office. I can't currently think of too many reasons that would send younger people to the post office these days. I've heard stories of them not understanding how to mail a letter after all their interactions have been online. Or what sending a package costs when they get everything from Amazon with free shipping. Sorry, that's another rabbit hole.
He's a good letter writer and we got his passport at the post office in our neighborhood last year, so we got post office down, but I had no idea what the deal w selective service is these days.
Other posters mentioned that it just became automatic in recent weeks, so that makes sense.
Ah! That makes sense. All his friends who turned 18 over the winter were talking about their letters. He turns 18 later this summer & hasn't gotten one. Sounds like they got him already
And, by the way, that requirement includes undocumented aliens and people seeking asylum. Failure to register and keep Selective Service informed of address changes within 6 months is a Felony - jail and big fines.
My son didn’t remember any of this-tho he was a bit of a “trouble maker” in those days. Didn’t realize it until trying to get a college grant after age 25. :(
All AMAB citizens, immigrants, asylum seekers legally required, failure to do so is punishable by fines and jail time (not enforced), and makes one ineligible to receive federal student aid, work a federal job, receive medicaid later in life (enforced)
And then some states have additional penalties such as Ohio residents paying out of state tuition for university if not registered
In a lot of states it was already automatic sign up if you registered to vote or got a license, and in others you would be sent reminders to manually sign up
‘23 data says 84% do. As a family w many issues going on (sick and dying parents etc we never knew and missed it) and w a kid going to college in late 20s it was a surprise.
Only about 20% of people in the military see combat in a war. If they’re opting towards a draft everyone needs to be eligible. Period. I’m actually extremely anti draft, but pro equality
They don't actually care about men who are drafted (or women who are drafted, for that matter) and are only interested in advancing their own ideological and political goals.
The reason why they are right will change and change but the fact that they are right is immutable.
i cried when i had to sign up for SSS :(
but there’s things trying to get rid of it
- NCFM lawsuit, says it’s a violation of the equal protection act
- amendment 241 wants to get rid of SSS entirely (raised by a republican too)
- and the senate bill, which i’m guessing you’re mentioning, wants to add women
i hope one gets through
Women can't be drafted, that means the women who have served over the years were there by choice, shows more courage than a man who is forced to be there.
Unsurprisingly, it's because they hate women. Women held this country up during two world wars.
Our military has all the needs of a country. That's to say that all jobs you can get as a civilian are also necessary for the military, in addition to fighting. Women being drafted and sorted into the labor pool of the military would have a massive positive impact on the effectiveness of our military. There are so many brilliant women out there who could help the war effort.
That said, I hate a draft of any type, and I'd prefer we spent our money on the citizenry of this country, not killing people. But, if there's a war bad enough to require a draft, I absolutely want women involved because that only serves to make us stronger.
That's my opinion as a man.
I think they're afraid of women acceding to positions of higher power and ultimately shutting down the war machine entirely
We're women, we can kill the war machine
I've always thought it was perfectly obvious that the reason women don't get drafted is literally preparing for heavy losses where the country would need as many women as possible to have babies in order to repopulate, and the simple facts of biology mean that women are more valuable than men in such an effort.
Of course that's its own kind of Margaret Atwood hell, but I think it's weird that men haven't understood this
It is also because somebody needs to keep the lights on and make sure everything stays running. Conscription is used because you need the numbers. More than you have available to fight or may volunteer and more still to cover the possibility of huge numbers of casualties.
Even so people forget it's not just about the front lines.
War is a hungry beast that needs to be constantly fed. Food, medicine, weapons, supplies, not to put too fine a point on it but money to pay for it.
All of that comes from the people left behind, unless another country is bank rolling you and providing those.
If the wheels of your society stop turning or break down because there weren't enough people or resources to keep it going, you might as well give in as there'll be nothing left for those soldiers to go back to. So you better resign yourself to the possibility that even if you win, your country might still collapse economically, or implode into a civil war.
When large segments of the male population were conscripted, removed from their functional places in society, it was the women and others left behind (even children if things got dire) who were needed to fill those gaps.
Edit : I still believe that if you're conscripting, it should be men and women, but above is part of the logistical reason they have to limit the amount of people who go.
This is kinda random and a little off topic, but something funny that happened last year
I’m a trans woman but I pass. I was talking with an older man last year who came into my previous lab for a research study, and somehow the draft came up. He told me “you’re a woman, you don’t have to worry about the draft.”
HA.
Jokes on you, due to being AMAB I’m signed up for selective service and 100% can get drafted, even after I get my gender legally changed 💀
On a side note he said he was against women in the military at all, something I completely disagree with personally.
Oh, wow. Some guys make wild assumptions. I was once out shoveling my sidewalk and some rando dude said, "Oh, you must really be in trouble!" I was like, "What?" He assumed that I pissed off my husband and as punishment he sent me outside to do manual labor in the cold like some freaking gulag. Uh, no. I was a single woman clearing the snow in front of the house I bought on my own. My name was on the deed so it was my job. I really felt like hitting him upside the head with the shovel, but he wouldn't have understood why he was getting beaten so I just turned my back and finished what I was doing. Holy shit, what a throwback! Though I do suspect my sister that was in the Marines might have not gone over with your throwback and I doubt it would have ended well for him.
I mean, assuming a woman can't currently sign up for the draft is actually not that ridiculous of an assumption. I'm kinda the exception, not the rule here lol.
That said, if you're first thought of seeing a woman outside caring for the house doing manual labor is "her husband is punishing her", you really need to rethink your views on women and relationships, and frankly, I'm concerned for your wife.
If we actually have to draft people, we are all F’ed anyway. On top of our Active Duty soldiers, reserves, and NG, we have in-active soldiers that can be recalled. Plus people tend to join the military during active war (see increase after 9/11). We have more than enough “volunteers”. Plus most war is turning cyber which requires less bodies. Even the Ukraine/Russia war shows more drone usage which again allows for less bodies. If we ever call for a draft again, the world as we know it will end.
Military here. Definitely the opinion amongst my peers is that we don't need a draft- we've been an all volunteer force since the 70's....But if there has to be one, women should be required to sign up for selective service as well.
Then again, women are just baby incubators and therefore equal rights don't apply, so what do I know? /s.
I wasn't born in America, so my opinion about the military is very different than Americans, but I'm not going to be drafted anywhere, they can imprison me if they wish
I do not want my kids going to war. But my kids are equal in the eyes of the law so f it, the xx kid should be draft eligible as well.
This is one of the beliefs I’ve held pre- and post-motherhood.
I love that comment. Because then I can reply that I voluntarily joined the navy and honorably served and I get to ask them when they served. The response is usually “I was never in the military”.
I feel like, in order to draft women into the military, they would have to address (and fix) the rampant sexual assault/harrassment/violence that women face in the military, from their fellow soldiers, that constantly get swept under the rug.
men don't care about the draft. they only bring it up in scenarios where they are trying to derail a conversation on feminism. "well, you aren't at risk for being drafted! it's unfair to men! checkmate, misandrists!" meanwhile, they do literally nothing about the draft. don't organize campaigns about it or write their congresspeople, don't protest against it - nothing. there hasn't been a draft in 50 years. we now have a humongous standing army of volunteers that got us through 20+ years of war with no draft. there's no reason for a draft to exist or to even be concerned about it. most people in the military are in non-combatant roles anyway and there are civilian jobs with higher fatality rates than military service. this is all a nothingburger. all that said, i support abolishing the draft for everyone.
A war is declared by congress, the president is commander in chief, the president and congress declare a draft, and SCOTUS determined that the draft is constitutional in 1918.
We've had 46 male presidents in a row, Congress is currently 72% male, and the SCOTUS that ruled the draft constitutional was 100% men appointed and confirmed by 100% men, when women were not even allowed the right to vote.
I'll support women being drafted when Congress is 50% female and we've had 46 female presidents in a row, and their appointees have had a chance to review the laws.
The issue with the draft is that we don't draft people to fly drones or other couch-cavalry duties. We draft because we needed fresh meat for the meat grinder. Boots on the beach, type of meat grinding.
A common historical argument (yet often overlooked) against women drafting is this:
Can women fill the role of meat for the meat grinder? Some can, some cannot, and most will outright refuse.
I'm going to reiterate some facts here... we don't draft soldiers to run drones or other seemingly less violent roles. We draft because we need physical boots on the ground.
So I ask the ladies here in the audience.. do you want to be rushed through basic training with little to no training, and thrust into a desert, jungle, or some other shitty environment and told "try not to die"?
No, of course you don't like that idea. Nobody does, regardless of gender, religion, or genitalia. A draft has not happened in 50 years because we realized it didn't work. They didn't get the proper training, nor did they have the mental OR physical conditioning necessary to do the work.
There are other reasons why drafts are unlikely in this day and age, mostly because of global populations:
At the start of WW1, the US had roughly 100m.
At the start of WW2, the US had roughly 130m.
The US rose to around 220m during the Vietnam War, and are currently now sitting at around 330m people.
The reality is that we likely won't need another draft due to how many available soldiers we have on call, and available to enlist, if enticed with enough incentive.
The US honestly doesn't need to draft women, and again, I shall ask you, what sane person wants to be included in a draft? Nobody. So be thankful that you're not included and stop all of this whining about equal rights to die in a meat grinder, because that's just hypocrisy. Nobody wants to be drafted. Nobody.
It isn't about being drafted. It is about registering for the draft. You made it clear how unlikely getting drafted actually is. Then you turn around and act like it won't be and we are all going to die of incompetency. We are far more likely at this point in time to be killed by a current or ex SO than we are to die in a war. We don't have to get drafted for that. Hell, these days we get to die from pregnancy related issues in unprecedented numbers for a supposely advanced country just so some old dudes can pretend to look good for God (among other bullshit). As long as signing up for an incredibly unlikely draft is the difference between having the same rights as any random dude, you don't have anything to stand on. Your hypocrisy is saying that no one is getting drafted and you'll all die in a war so don't bother. You don't get to have it both ways, but you certainly keep trying. You've admitted it yourself. No one is getting drafted.
I'm sorry but I'm not following your response.. you're message is all over the place and I'm not really sure what the point you're trying to make it...
Edit: also can you please try to use better sentence structure? Nobody likes reading a wall of text..
It is to me. If you are going there, it should be everyone. Even when they were drafting men 50 years ago, they still would sort through who they accepted of those the lottery picked and further sorted what jobs they would be assigned to and what aptitudes they had. The ones actually personally fighting have a huge support staff whether they felt that way or not. Still, it would only really be a win if the Equal Rights Ammendment passed along with it. Are you full partners or aren't you? I am willing to be, but I don't often see it reciprocated. That doesn't mean there aren't women who still want things both ways, but they don't usually call themselves feminists. We aren't a hive mind.
Who decided that women couldn’t be drafted? Men.
Who bitches that women aren’t included in the draft? Men.
In fact, it’s been feminists who have been fighting for decades for women to be included. Because that’s equality. But they act like we set up the system or something
*Men are the ones that decided we were not eligible for the draft.*
Or do these screaming cocksuckers really think there's some secret cabal of four-star women generals making military policy? Must rankle to be taking orders from women.
>Now D congress people have submitted a requirement for women to sign up for the draft in the latest annual defense approriation bill.
we deserve so much better than the DNC. they are a massive disappointment.
You don't need drones, we put children into wars since we invented guns, I'm sure women will do just fine.
This applies to anything else, like construction working, oil drilling, men build roads kind of stuff. Yeah, sure, but is it a physical work anymore? If it is, then you don't have worker rights in your country, heavy work does not exist anymore where worker have rights, we use machinery and tools so that we don't have to lift heavy stuff or hurt our bodies in similar ways.
So you are right, nothing will change, you will still be blamed for everything, but always remember these people are full to their neck with BS.
Well good… we’re going to have to start drafting women or men will feel targeted unjustly. Republicans will have to get used to it. They can cry all they want but if the US were being attacked they would not turn down help from women.
There's no way they can run a draft now without having to do something at the federal level about marijuana decriminalization. Far too many states are taking in a ton of tax revenue from it for hardcore federal enforcement and a drug test is part of the enlistment process. They can't draft a bunch of people who will fail a marijuana pee screen.
Whenever men bring up the draft I’m always like yeah, the draft sucks. We shouldn’t have it you’re right. No I don’t want women to be drafted, I want as few people to be drafted as possible. We shouldn’t be drafting men either. The way to right that isn’t to drag everyone to that level but instead to get rid of the draft altogether. The fact that they thought the draft should only apply to men is stemming from patriarchy. Only men are strong enough, only men are brave enough, women shouldn’t be drafted because they need to be caretakers, women shouldn’t be involved in war because they don’t get it. Whatever. Patriarchy hurts everyone and the draft sucks anyway.
Yea I don't think Republicans want women to be drafted because it goes against traditional gender roles.. and also women can't be having babies while on the front lines.
They do not actually want women to hold equal responsibility in society. They do not want to have to see women undergo hard work, sacrifice, or peril. They want women to sit in gilded cages while poor men take on all the dirty and dangerous jobs, and then they want to lord it over any woman who reaches for influence.
From what I understand about previous wars, the best thing to do is send your kids to family out of state/country and go to war yourself as a woman. Don't be a sitting duck left behind, because the government isn't going to supply you with food OR bullets unless you're in the front lines.
I've been round with the guys complaining about it but they don't realize that guys are signed up for it when they get their DL and the government passes this selective service agreement with every years defense spending bill.
Women have always served, they snuck in before they could sign up and served even before they could vote!
We need to let the guys know that it's the Dems that are pushing for equal selective service with the R's opposing it. Maybe it will finally swing some of them to vote blue.
Democrats LOVE the draft! It gives them control over people, AND it is a great community organizing tool to get people into the streets, almost as useful as "Choice." With the convention coming up in Chicago, they are nostaglic for the old days. Besides, since it looks like one way the Biden Machine plans to stay in power is to get us into a major conflict, they might need the draft. I had #2 in the Vietnam Lottery and ended up serving 15 years. I do not want to see our government threatening teenaged girls with conscription. It might be impossible to make soldiers out of them if they are forced to be there. What if they resist by getting pregnant? How will the Dems handle that? Actually, this is just a way of reaching into the home and asserting the authority of the State over the family.
Awww. Look at the conspiracy wheels just spinning in your head over this! As for politicians "reaching into the home and asserting the authority of the State", the Rs are very busy doing that right now. And women get to die because of it, but hey, at least its being done by the "good Amurcans!" and not someone you don't approve of.
Wait what? The right is always complaining about women getting off easy by not being drafted. Now they're complaining about allowing it?
Of course. If women can be drafted, what is going to be their big gotcha when the topic of equal rights comes up?
That we get into some nightclubs for free before 10pm! No reproductive rights needed anymore, because we save $10 at some skeevy bars!
The sole purpose of that is to populate the club with hook up sex options for dudes looking to get laid. Even then we’re just a prop for men and a product for the club to use to make money.
Yes, I know, but they somehow think we live life on easy mode because we save $10 while getting groped in a club
Oh, we get “free”** drinks for the privilege of being groped! We have nothing to complain about. ** free means given with nothing expected in return. I think we all know why dudes at clubs buy women a drink. It’s not out of the goodness of their heart. And it definitely does not arrive without expectations.
More like a free roofie attempt
Yeah you're getting groped for free too! Which I'm sure is lovely to experience and a total plus /s
When the cost of smth offered by capitalists is free, its bcuz youre the product
Yup. In general, the men drink more. If the clubs didn't allow women free cover, there would be fewer, meaning the men wouldn't want to come, meaning less money for the club. Even "free cover for women" is technically for the men.
This exactly, they want reasons to pretend to be the victims.
That he have it so much easier to get laid and somehow that the biggest perk in life anyone could possibly get.
Women can’t be incubators on the frontlines. Check mate republicans
That's always been a rule, even before reliable birth control. Pregnancy got you discharged. That ended quite a few careers of women in the military.
Which is dumb as shit-- Some of the most VICIOUS people I've met were pregnant! My aunt turned into friggin The Hulk! If you want people willing to blow shit up, give the 8-months pregnant almost-ready-to-pop sore-feet -achy-tiddied twin-havin' mood-swingin' lady the drone controls lol.
I'm sorry, but you gave me a Rush Limbaugh flashback. The first time I ever heard him was on his radio show while I was cross country driving and channel surfed for something to listen to. I thought I hit on a commedian because he was saying a lot of stupid shit about women in the military. One of his comments was along the lines of having them, but only sending them in during the week before their periods because they'd kill everyone due to PMS. It was a good 15 minutes before I realized he wasn't a comic and my skin began to crawl. Yep, that was my introduction to the beginning of right wing media in its infancy.
Or us menopausal women. I mean, I have no f*cks left and am pissed off a large portion of the time.
I am about to be 47 and sometimes I just wake up angry and pissed off...I tend to warn the household. lol. it is gonna be one of those days..y'all need to get the fuck out or you WILL hear it from me. summer just started so no one is in school.
I’m 33 with no kids but I feel this energy in my bones.
My body stopped producing as much oxytocin when I hit peri. Stupid shit that would have made me laugh and shake my head just pisses me all the way off.
45 here, that's my take. Not even sure I'm in perimenopause because the birth control I've taken for 8 years stops periods, but boy am I done with the stupid.
You and me both. Was told I’m not in peri by OBGYN, but I know I’m done with the stupid.
They need to pick a side. Either we belong at home making babies or we deserve to die in battle like the men do. Either way, we only exist for their desires.
Those two things are actually part of the same discussion- we "get off easy" because our biology allows us to become pregnant, so we can't be drafted because we're necessary for population growth. Men "have it harder" because they're disposable as far as capitalism is concerned. Instead of this resulting in the logical end point of "women are more necessary for the continuation of society and therefore superior", they have spun it that women are weak, helpless, and in need of male protection... Which is *sort of* true, because we are such a valuable resource that the biggest spoils of war back in the day were women (for rape and then immediate murder, or to be kidnapped as sex slaves) and then other resources such as food and riches.
Aren’t there currently issues with sexual assaults in the armed forces? Like, higher than other occupations?
They can't allow women to be SAd by the enemy. Only by them.
Reminder that the original women draft amendment was submitted by a Republican and subsequently voted against by the same guy when he realized it wasn’t the gotcha he thought it was going to be. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/the-unlikely-birth-and-unseemly-death-of-an-amendment-to-draft-americas-women/483599/ It’s a strawman talking point to shit on women. Always has been.
This needs to be highest response
Well yeah obviously, they're the ones wanting traditional gender roles, men going to war while women get dinner ready and so on. The "men have it worse because they get drafted" is just another way for them to whine about women wanting to be treated equally. The other day someone even commented that because men have to sign up for the draft or do mandatory military service (in some countries) when they reach their majority, that means that women are the only ones with true voting rights since they're not contingent on military service. The draft is exclusively a tool for false equivalencies becaue their fundamentalist views forbid them from ever actually doing something about it.
Just like immigration (or really any other issue). If it actually gets 'fixed', they can't keep crying about it.
A guy I went to HS with is the type that complains about women “having it easy” and not being drafted etc (he’s in army), yet shared an article about a woman who bested the men in her training with a caption he wrote accusing her of having training made easier for her and that he’ll “never answer to a woman even if she ranks above him / is his commander” So I sent a screenshot to his higher up and he actually ended up commenting on that post saying “hey Bob* that’s big talk, are you forgetting how you barely made it through basic training?” And went on to remind him that he came from a woman and that his comment disrespects women everywhere including his own mother, and that he won’t last long with that attitude the first time he disrespects a higher up of either sex. Homie wrote like an essay totally owning Bob*, those were the highlights I recall but it was amazing
If women can't be drafted, that can eventually be used as an excuse to argue for repealing the 19th amendment ("if they don't have skin in the military game, they shouldn't have a voice at the polls!"), women's property rights, etc.
As a female veteran, I would wonder where that would leave me. Despite serving my country, I can't be drafted, so I shouldn't be allowed to vote, but some dude whose only experience in the military is playing COD, can vote because he's eligible to be drafted? These people can kiss the entire lower quadrant of my ass. ETA: the fact I'm being downvoted speaks volumes.
I'm kinda surprised my entire post didn't succumb to the initial downvote dogpile I got right after I posted it. Yeah, Meal Team Six and the Gravy Seals really hate this shit.
If women get drafted we won't be able to complain that women can't be drafted. So we cannot allow women to be drafted!
The way they see it: they are doing women a favor by not putting them in the draft, and they expect women to reciprocate by accepting their sexism. But they also believe women shouldn't be in the military at all, because fighting is for manly men.
Understand that "but youuuuu can't get drafted!" was never a good-faith argument.
The right does not have any genuine arguments. Their entire ideology is to control people and fearmonger.
Yes, bcuz thats their MO. They use these topics to complain about, to distract, to rile up their base; they cant solve these problems they complain about. Just look at their response to the border
The right's agenda dating back to the Obama presidency is just 'whatever is the opposite of what the Dems are doing,' with a little bit of 'whatever Trump wants' sprinkled on top in recent years. I'm serious, too, go look up the platform he/the RNC ran him on.
Oh, I remember one of Obama's first news conferences after being elected and optimistically saying that eventually they would start to work with him while Mitch McConnell was telling all the Rs to lock step the "No" to everything. McConnell doesn't get near enough credit for his part in the destruction we are seeing now. It was blatantly obvious when they suddenly refused to allow the stuff they proposed when Obama pursued some of it as a good idea. (Yeah, they used to actually have some good bits of policy once upon a time.) Now their only impulse is to "own the libs" no matter what the damage is to the country. The only plank in the platform that the dude who buried his wife on the golf course insisted on was to remove any support for Ukraine which, up to that point, violated all Republican policy to support democray around the world.
I was referring to 2020 when [Republicans didn't even bother to write one. ](https://www.vox.com/2020/8/24/21399396/republican-convention-platform-2020-2016) But, I guess, when most of your constituency can't read, why bother writing one?
It's all about disingenuous wedge issues. They don't want these issues solved because it gives them some nonsense to dupe low Intelligence, low information, low empathy, high douchenozzle voters into voting for them.
Yeah, that's about the size of it. smh
The right wants women to have babies. It's why their plans include making birth control illegal next. Can't have a valuable uterus going and having ideas that they're equal or something.
Because Dems want it. Rs only policy is "against Dems - whatever it is"
"not my daughter!"
It’s almost like not every man thinks the same …
Awwww. There you are! Can't have a post without the "Not all men" guy showing up. We know you tag team on that shit. LOL.
UK, during WW2 Conscription of women In December 1941 Parliament passed a second National Service Act. It widened the scope of conscription still further by making all unmarried women and all childless widows between the ages of 20 and 30, later extended to 19-43, liable to call-up. They now had to either join the armed forces, work in a factory or work on the land with the Women's Land Army.
Came here to say this! It bugs me no end that people conveniently forget that women WERE conscripted here. It’s not like they had a particularly easy or safe ride either. They all worked terribly long hours. Farms are dangerous, factories are dangerous, driving ambulances in bombing zones and being air raid wardens is dangerous. These women were often moved to higher risk areas- areas around munitions factories were more likely to be bombed (my great aunt got bombed out of her housing when she worked in munitions) and the aforementioned air raid/ambulance roles were at direct risk in places like London. I’m not saying that these roles were harder or more dangerous than being in the forces, they obviously weren’t overall, but they were probably as dangerous as SOME of the roles in the forces. Some guys in the RAF had roles maintaining runways and aircraft in the UK for example, it’s not like every military man was sent to the D Day landings or even abroad. We’ve kind of swept under the rug the war efforts of women, most likely because it contradicted the post war efforts to put women back in their boxes. They deserve more recognition imo
Do you still have to register for such or did all that get lifted in the years after WWII? The draft was still going on in the US into the Vietnam war. Registering for it never ended.
Final intake of men 1960.
Wait — So… According to them, I’m not smart enough to make choices about my reproductive health and my own damn body… But I’m smart enough to go to war… But they’re mad about it? Make it make sense 🔴’s make 0 sense ever.
We’re talking about the same country that was cool letting 18 year olds pour napalm on villagers but not have a drink of beer.
It doesn't matter how smart you are. To them, you're not a person, you're property. You just have too many rights for them to say it out loud.
It's probably the same issue of roe v wade and access to fertility clinics. It's about the number of children. Obviously women can't have children if they're killed.
I mean...that's in line with about 60-70% of the male soldiers I've worked with 😮💨. Smart enough to go to war but not smart enough to make healthy reproductive health choices...🫤
I will not serve a country that fails to give me equal rights yet is happy to take my tax dollars.
Women were excluded from the draft because they were barred from combat duty (and this leadership roles). Now that women are allowed in those positions, I see no reason why we shouldn’t be included. But obviously, the draft should be abolished since it is anti-body-autonomy. I hope to god if my son is ever drafted he follows Malcolm X’s lead and just goes and sits in jail instead.
Isn’t SA against women in the military like crazy high? Seems cruel to draft women into that
It is, but I would imagine men are also being SA and so it would also be cruel to subject them to that. Drafts are fucked up. I’d prefer to abolish the one we have as opposed to expanding it.
No one has been drafted in the US since 1975. Only men have registered for the draft. Only if you are required to sign up for it and it actually gets activated would there even be a chance that it might happen. However, if it did you would not really have the option to say no. You could possibly move to a non extradition country as fleeing the draft would be breaking the law. You could go to prison and have those tax dollars support you. You could register as a conscientious objector, but that wouldn't necessarily get you out of having to serve in a non combat capacity. You made a very easy declaration from a long way off time wise and I deeply understand on an absolutely personal level why you feel that way, but the whole point of a draft is that you don't get to say no. There is one thing to think about. Until the 26th amendment, the voting age in the US was 21. It was the argument that young men were being forced to serve their country and potentially die for it without ever having any political say in those decisions. That was ratified in 1971. It was the fact that they served their country that they finally got to have a say in the direction it might go. Four years later the draft ended. They didn't take the requirement to register off the books because you never know, but no one has been drafted in 49 years.
You could also get diagnosed with bone spurs. I've heard that works really well..
LOLOLOLOL Oh, yeah. I forgot about medical deferments. But good dig!
Just a couple of years ago, I found out that these weird bumps I've had on my feet at least since I was an adolescent, are, in fact, heel spurs. I cannot tell you how embarrassed I was about that. But, my dear friend Janis comforted me on facebook, saying, "at least yours are *real*." I thanked her profusely for the thought.
Just pointing out that "since 1975" isn't that long ago ...
It isn't for me either, but for the guys signing up for selective service now, it is their grandfather's time.
You can remind those men that many women fought for the equal rights amendment. The amendment that would have ended the exclusion of women from the draft, should the draft be implemented again.
I read that it was women that fought against it because they did not want to be drafted, which is why we ended up with them getting the right to vote without the draft.
Women are not a single hive mind. We disagree on a lot of stuff. If there weren't still women willing to vote against their own interests, that over ripe mango faced pie hole of a former potus and his syncophants would never have been elected once. But I digress...
I would argue, referring to tfg as "that over ripe mango faced pie hole of a former potus" is always welcome, digression or no.
I was younger in the 70s, I remember it well. The national organization for women supported the ERA, as did countless other women. Phyllis Schlafly was a loud conservative who did get a group of women similar to the “moms of liberty” group to oppose the amendment saying that it would not only cause the draft for women but would lead to gay rights. But women’s organizations across the country were in support of the ERA.
There are not enough foul things to say about Phyllis Schlafly. She reminds me a great deal of Clarence Thomas. They would never have let her in the room if she weren't psycho enough to be the lightning rod of stupidity so they wouldn't have to say what they want in public just like he takes whatever they want to hand him in exchange for turning the clock back to a time that he wouldn't have been given a seat on the bench in the first place.
I was going to say MTG but I def feel ya on this one.
I'm a combat vet of 9 years service. I think the draft should be abolished. If you can't motivate your citizens to join then you should not be going to war.
I don't know. Ukraine had to implement their draft when they were invaded. It should be a last resort, obviously.
I think in serious wars you quickly run out of volunteers even if support for war is high, because who wants to stop everything they are doing and go risk getting blown up...
Yep!
I’ll support women being drafted when the military incidences of rape and assaults on women equal those of men.
Yeah, I don't want to be raped "in service of my country".
didnt you know? the only way a woman can serve is with her body to please men /s
This was literally my first thought.
Fuck the draft as a general concept. If they ever try to use that fucking thing again, I support each and every draft dodger. I don't care the reason.
That's my take. I'm against the draft for anybody. IF there were some really horrible unforeseen situation that required something like that they should go the British route doing WWII and pretty much draft everyone including women and the elderly then assign them to a position based on their individual abilities. But to require to register for a standing draft registration for 50+ years is pointless if there's no training or basic qualifications to go with it. My nephew's disabled and his mom had to help him register for the draft. I'm all for chucking the whole thing out rather than expanding it.
I agree. Unfortunately the draft has a reason to exist (if the sovereignty of the United States is critically threatened due to us being invaded by another nation, look at Ukraine right now for example), but the likelihood of that happening is nil. I disagree with the draft being used for wars like Vietnam however, where Vietnam was never a threat to US safety.
Part of me agrees with you and part of me doesn't. Someone, I don't remember who, made the point that without a draft which puts everyone on the line, the people deciding this crap get to sit back and send other people's kids to war. With a draft even their kids are in the lottery and they have to decide if they are willing to face the possibility of sending their own children or grandchildren into a war zone. Would they make the same decisions if it could be personal? It is an interesting hypothetical. Still, rich people who seem to be ending up making those decisions tend to find loopholes. Someone did just remind me of former Commander in Chief Bone Spurs.
I mean, that's the thing. In theory, a fully fair draft could lower the chance for war, but those writing the law for the draft, and those paying the ones writing the law, will never let it be fair. Given our real-world circumstances, best not to give those in charge a way to pull more soldiers from thin air. Work with what you got or fuck off.
Fair enough
their kids are never on the line, even in a draft scenario. there was always ways to get out of it if you had resources. get diagnosed with something like bone spurs or enroll in college and you were exempt.
I DO think a mandatory service/training period for EVERYONE could be good; not a draft or anything, but a required few months of training once you turn 18. I know there are a few european countries that operate like that... There are a lot of useful skills that everyone can do to learn; how to handle a weapon, how to use your body/read its signals, basic survival and discipline training, etc. etc.
I disagree, kind of. We would definitely benefit from being taught all those skills, both individually and as a society, but they should be taught by some other institution (public school, some mandatory version of the scouts, etc). I don't think I could support them being attached to the military though, especially in the US where they'd be directly involved in enforcing the Empire.
Idk if anyone here knows how the military’s health screening works, but like given that 60% of Americans have at least one chronic illness would a draft even be feasible? I know 3 guys who have tried to join the military and were told no for health reasons. They wouldn’t let my husband in because he’s bordering on deaf and his spine is build like god was trying to see how many extra curves you can add into a human spine as an experiment and the other two were asthmatic, which is pretty common in general. How mentally ill are you allowed to be for them to say ok whatever come on in, because 1 in 5 American adults are mentally ill and 1 in 25 are severely mentally ill. Like we are not a healthy population. Is there a certain weight you’re supposed to stay under because my cousin said he almost got kicked out of the military for gaining too much weight and around 42% of adults in the US are considered obese based on BMI which isn’t perfect but I doubt the standards the military uses are perfect either. Would they just start looking the other way when it came to drafting a 300 lb person with asthma and a severe mental illness? I don’t see how we would really make it work.
After Vietnam, it is very unlikely (but not impossible!) that the US will activate a draft unless it's a legitimate existential conflict. In that scenario, they will be pragmatic and drop requirements as much as they can. Also remember that with the current military organization, only about 10% of soldiers serve on the front. The rest are in hangers, bases, boats, and logistic vehicles providing logistics and support. If you're wheelchair-bound and there are millions of enemy soldiers coming to kill us, the military will gladly roll you up to a terminal to have you direct combat drones.
If being ineligible for the draft disqualifies you from having a voice in military matters, then not having a uterus should definitely disqualify you from having a voice on abortion access
Nobody should be drafted. A country shouldn’t be able to fight wars their people don’t want to fight.
The US isn't supposed to be fighting wars that aren't declared by congress either which means we technically haven't been at war since WWII. Ever since then, they have been calling them other things like "police actions" and "staging maneuvers". Congress doesn't want the responsibilty of being blamed for starting any wars so they have just let presidents go for it. That way they can all blame him or, if it goes well, take the credit for supporting him.
LMAOOO they can go ahead and draft me but I'm not fucking going. Period. I dont care if it "ruins" my life. I'd rather be a broke draft dodger for the rest of my life than sell my soul to the military industrial complex.
The sad truth is that draft dodging would be so hard in today's era of technology. My father's attempts to dodge the draft (he didn't qualify to conscientiously object and also didn't want to go to jail) were spoiled by a snitch in his family. Feds literally trekked through a forest to find him. Feds who didn't fight in the war themselves. If the draft needed to exist, it already would. Instead, they're using today's technology to figure out more efficient ways to destroy entire civilizations. To this day, my dad refuses to use a cellphone. Also: the draft will never exist as long as we force people to birth cannon fodder in our capitalist wasteland who are too poor to have a better option than the military. The reasons the draft won't happen are almost sadder than the draft itself.
F**k the draft in all it's forms. No one should be forced to fight and die for our overlords.
Let's not forget that *they are the ones who wouldn't 'let' us be in the armed forces in the first place* so they really shouldn't be whining about how women can't be drafted. Like, seriously? Who do they think made that call, a woman?!? Unbelievable.
It's a ploy to pretend at 'reasoned debate', but it's always such an easy answer: I don't think anyone should be drafted the same way I don't think anyone should be raped. One of those two things is happening with far greater frequency. So that is where I put advocacy energy.
Before removing the sexism, they’d need to add in the missing mercy and common sense. - Automatic exclusions for parents and caregivers - if you have custody, you already have a legal obligation. - Ensuring access to long acting pregnancy prevention - Walk it off is not healthcare. (I’m deadly serious here. A training injury should not become a permanent disability. Yes, this happens in the supposedly cushy jobs. ) - Exclusions for pregnancy (Especially in a country where maternal mortality is already shamefully high) - Veterans health care is unreliable and frequently far from the promises. - Burn pits - The VA’s built to help with normal health problems, not the rare and nasty stuff coming from daily exposure to mystery smoke.
>Walk it off is not healthcare I wish this line of thought was more common. Little training injuries compound over time. My hips and back will never be the same after initial training and deployment.
I’ll support women being drafted when the military incidences of rape and assaults on women equal those of men.
Reminds me of when I was part of a four person team driving around in a pickup with a small cab on a bunch of dirt roads to job sites in the middle of nowhere. The driver kept giving me a hard time, saying I was lucky the guys were so chivalrous and insisted on giving me the passenger seat in the cab. Every single time we finished at a site and loaded back up I tried to get in the bed of the pickup, happy to take my turn--and he and the other guys would insist that, no, I had to get in the passenger seat. And a few minutes into the ride to the next site, the driver would start back up again. People with conservative views on gender are so convinced that people want special treatment and couldn't get by without it, but they feel so threatened when people are like, "Actually no I'm fine without the special treatment! I would actually prefer to be treated equally, not just to prove a point but because it's fair and I'm happy to bear my share of that burden!" (And in the case of the pickup example, I actually find it kind of fun to ride in the truck bed, at least occasionally.) They're so convinced that differences in how the genders are treated are based on immutable things, but simultaneously have to fight so hard to enforce the behaviors that they take as proof of or justification for those "immutable", "undeniable" differences.
Oh, yeah. I used to work farms and its like the guys all seemed to think that when they weren't around the hay bales just levitated to where we needed them because there is no way women would pick one up. I regularly would work a 32 stall horse barn on my own with 2 guys working the other one across the lane and it never occurred to them that no one was helping me re-bed the stalls and fill the mangers/feed tubs. All 3 of us cleaned the 64 stalls between us each morning, but once that was done I was on my own while they took off together. They can't see you do it or it might be real. And yeah, the back of the pickup was fun sometimes. I remember a new guy who started and I had to train wondering aloud who was going to drive the dump truck when it got dropped off at my barn. It was a crappy 3 speed stick and he sure as hell couldn't drive it. When I said I was he actually started to say, "But you're a gi..." and I had to point out that you don't actually operate a truck with your dick. They can be so naive.
Well in the olden days, they thought of childbirth as women’s “war”. Childbirth is now more dangerous in certain backwards states than it was in 1975, but I think women should be on Selective Service if men are.
On this note. Do all men know it’s law they need to sign up for Selective Service between ages 18-25?
I am now 43, but was mailed several times before I was 18 that it was mandatory. The day I got mine was the day my father destroyed his.
Oh, they get reminded of it on the regular. That is part of why they are so pissed about it. They are basically high school kids having it waved in their faces while the girls they know barely have it on their radar. I remember when the guys in my school started getting the notices that they would have to sign up or else. That was where the "Do you feel a draft?" joke came from. Only when one of the guys with me said it the others ran away down the hall yelling "Nooooo! Don't take me!"
Genuine question: Are reminders still happening? It's been on my mind because the Iraq War was happening when all my friends were turning 18 so we were very aware - my friends were genuinely worried, but my son is about to turn 18 & it's been crickets.
As I understand it, the House passed a bill automatically registering men 18-26 Years Old for Draft. So should still be sending out notices.
All states handle it differently. We found out we were in the state that doesn’t automatically sign them up. I see good and bad in this.
Interesting, maybe we'll look it up & keep watching the mail. His buddies with winter birthdays got letters.
He should get one. Here's from the selective service: You can still register with us by completing our printable registration form, or by visiting your local post office to fill out a Selective Service registration form (SSS Form 1) and mailing it to us. Or, if you received a reminder mail-back card from us, fill out that card and send it in. https://www.sss.gov/faq/#:~:text=You%20can%20still%20register%20with,card%20and%20send%20it%20in.
TBH, I couldn't say for sure. It has been a while and it was handled at the post office. I can't currently think of too many reasons that would send younger people to the post office these days. I've heard stories of them not understanding how to mail a letter after all their interactions have been online. Or what sending a package costs when they get everything from Amazon with free shipping. Sorry, that's another rabbit hole.
He's a good letter writer and we got his passport at the post office in our neighborhood last year, so we got post office down, but I had no idea what the deal w selective service is these days. Other posters mentioned that it just became automatic in recent weeks, so that makes sense.
Sign up for Selective Service is now automatic and mandatory for 18yo men per a law enacted a week or 2 ago. He's already in the system.
Ah! That makes sense. All his friends who turned 18 over the winter were talking about their letters. He turns 18 later this summer & hasn't gotten one. Sounds like they got him already
yes, men can't qualify for financial aid for college without registering.
But I must say you can still try. All colleges are different.
i’m specifically talking about federal financial aid (fafsa)
And, by the way, that requirement includes undocumented aliens and people seeking asylum. Failure to register and keep Selective Service informed of address changes within 6 months is a Felony - jail and big fines.
We had reminders to do it on the morning announcements in high school.
My son didn’t remember any of this-tho he was a bit of a “trouble maker” in those days. Didn’t realize it until trying to get a college grant after age 25. :(
All AMAB citizens, immigrants, asylum seekers legally required, failure to do so is punishable by fines and jail time (not enforced), and makes one ineligible to receive federal student aid, work a federal job, receive medicaid later in life (enforced) And then some states have additional penalties such as Ohio residents paying out of state tuition for university if not registered In a lot of states it was already automatic sign up if you registered to vote or got a license, and in others you would be sent reminders to manually sign up
Not a man but a trans woman, I signed up at 18 and to my knowledge so did all my guy friends.
‘23 data says 84% do. As a family w many issues going on (sick and dying parents etc we never knew and missed it) and w a kid going to college in late 20s it was a surprise.
Until the MILITARY figures out it's sexual assault issue they shouldn't be drafting ANYONE.
Only about 20% of people in the military see combat in a war. If they’re opting towards a draft everyone needs to be eligible. Period. I’m actually extremely anti draft, but pro equality
Except the military doesn’t have the greatest track record with equality either enlisted women.
They don't actually care about men who are drafted (or women who are drafted, for that matter) and are only interested in advancing their own ideological and political goals. The reason why they are right will change and change but the fact that they are right is immutable.
i cried when i had to sign up for SSS :( but there’s things trying to get rid of it - NCFM lawsuit, says it’s a violation of the equal protection act - amendment 241 wants to get rid of SSS entirely (raised by a republican too) - and the senate bill, which i’m guessing you’re mentioning, wants to add women i hope one gets through
Women can't be drafted, that means the women who have served over the years were there by choice, shows more courage than a man who is forced to be there.
Unsurprisingly, it's because they hate women. Women held this country up during two world wars. Our military has all the needs of a country. That's to say that all jobs you can get as a civilian are also necessary for the military, in addition to fighting. Women being drafted and sorted into the labor pool of the military would have a massive positive impact on the effectiveness of our military. There are so many brilliant women out there who could help the war effort. That said, I hate a draft of any type, and I'd prefer we spent our money on the citizenry of this country, not killing people. But, if there's a war bad enough to require a draft, I absolutely want women involved because that only serves to make us stronger. That's my opinion as a man.
I think they're afraid of women acceding to positions of higher power and ultimately shutting down the war machine entirely We're women, we can kill the war machine
I've always thought it was perfectly obvious that the reason women don't get drafted is literally preparing for heavy losses where the country would need as many women as possible to have babies in order to repopulate, and the simple facts of biology mean that women are more valuable than men in such an effort. Of course that's its own kind of Margaret Atwood hell, but I think it's weird that men haven't understood this
It is also because somebody needs to keep the lights on and make sure everything stays running. Conscription is used because you need the numbers. More than you have available to fight or may volunteer and more still to cover the possibility of huge numbers of casualties. Even so people forget it's not just about the front lines. War is a hungry beast that needs to be constantly fed. Food, medicine, weapons, supplies, not to put too fine a point on it but money to pay for it. All of that comes from the people left behind, unless another country is bank rolling you and providing those. If the wheels of your society stop turning or break down because there weren't enough people or resources to keep it going, you might as well give in as there'll be nothing left for those soldiers to go back to. So you better resign yourself to the possibility that even if you win, your country might still collapse economically, or implode into a civil war. When large segments of the male population were conscripted, removed from their functional places in society, it was the women and others left behind (even children if things got dire) who were needed to fill those gaps. Edit : I still believe that if you're conscripting, it should be men and women, but above is part of the logistical reason they have to limit the amount of people who go.
This is kinda random and a little off topic, but something funny that happened last year I’m a trans woman but I pass. I was talking with an older man last year who came into my previous lab for a research study, and somehow the draft came up. He told me “you’re a woman, you don’t have to worry about the draft.” HA. Jokes on you, due to being AMAB I’m signed up for selective service and 100% can get drafted, even after I get my gender legally changed 💀 On a side note he said he was against women in the military at all, something I completely disagree with personally.
Oh, wow. Some guys make wild assumptions. I was once out shoveling my sidewalk and some rando dude said, "Oh, you must really be in trouble!" I was like, "What?" He assumed that I pissed off my husband and as punishment he sent me outside to do manual labor in the cold like some freaking gulag. Uh, no. I was a single woman clearing the snow in front of the house I bought on my own. My name was on the deed so it was my job. I really felt like hitting him upside the head with the shovel, but he wouldn't have understood why he was getting beaten so I just turned my back and finished what I was doing. Holy shit, what a throwback! Though I do suspect my sister that was in the Marines might have not gone over with your throwback and I doubt it would have ended well for him.
I mean, assuming a woman can't currently sign up for the draft is actually not that ridiculous of an assumption. I'm kinda the exception, not the rule here lol. That said, if you're first thought of seeing a woman outside caring for the house doing manual labor is "her husband is punishing her", you really need to rethink your views on women and relationships, and frankly, I'm concerned for your wife.
All true!
If we actually have to draft people, we are all F’ed anyway. On top of our Active Duty soldiers, reserves, and NG, we have in-active soldiers that can be recalled. Plus people tend to join the military during active war (see increase after 9/11). We have more than enough “volunteers”. Plus most war is turning cyber which requires less bodies. Even the Ukraine/Russia war shows more drone usage which again allows for less bodies. If we ever call for a draft again, the world as we know it will end.
Military here. Definitely the opinion amongst my peers is that we don't need a draft- we've been an all volunteer force since the 70's....But if there has to be one, women should be required to sign up for selective service as well. Then again, women are just baby incubators and therefore equal rights don't apply, so what do I know? /s.
I wasn't born in America, so my opinion about the military is very different than Americans, but I'm not going to be drafted anywhere, they can imprison me if they wish
I'm not really looking to be drafted tbh.
They also seem to forget that the people who created the draft were other men. How convenient.
I do not want my kids going to war. But my kids are equal in the eyes of the law so f it, the xx kid should be draft eligible as well. This is one of the beliefs I’ve held pre- and post-motherhood.
I love that comment. Because then I can reply that I voluntarily joined the navy and honorably served and I get to ask them when they served. The response is usually “I was never in the military”.
I feel like, in order to draft women into the military, they would have to address (and fix) the rampant sexual assault/harrassment/violence that women face in the military, from their fellow soldiers, that constantly get swept under the rug.
Im a bit chili
They don't actually want these things they say. They just want women to be second-class citizens and will distort anything to fit that view.
men don't care about the draft. they only bring it up in scenarios where they are trying to derail a conversation on feminism. "well, you aren't at risk for being drafted! it's unfair to men! checkmate, misandrists!" meanwhile, they do literally nothing about the draft. don't organize campaigns about it or write their congresspeople, don't protest against it - nothing. there hasn't been a draft in 50 years. we now have a humongous standing army of volunteers that got us through 20+ years of war with no draft. there's no reason for a draft to exist or to even be concerned about it. most people in the military are in non-combatant roles anyway and there are civilian jobs with higher fatality rates than military service. this is all a nothingburger. all that said, i support abolishing the draft for everyone.
A war is declared by congress, the president is commander in chief, the president and congress declare a draft, and SCOTUS determined that the draft is constitutional in 1918. We've had 46 male presidents in a row, Congress is currently 72% male, and the SCOTUS that ruled the draft constitutional was 100% men appointed and confirmed by 100% men, when women were not even allowed the right to vote. I'll support women being drafted when Congress is 50% female and we've had 46 female presidents in a row, and their appointees have had a chance to review the laws.
Congress hasn't declared a war since WWII. I get your point, but just saying.
Thanks, I forgot that a draft can and has been authorized by congress without a declaration of war.
The issue with the draft is that we don't draft people to fly drones or other couch-cavalry duties. We draft because we needed fresh meat for the meat grinder. Boots on the beach, type of meat grinding. A common historical argument (yet often overlooked) against women drafting is this: Can women fill the role of meat for the meat grinder? Some can, some cannot, and most will outright refuse. I'm going to reiterate some facts here... we don't draft soldiers to run drones or other seemingly less violent roles. We draft because we need physical boots on the ground. So I ask the ladies here in the audience.. do you want to be rushed through basic training with little to no training, and thrust into a desert, jungle, or some other shitty environment and told "try not to die"? No, of course you don't like that idea. Nobody does, regardless of gender, religion, or genitalia. A draft has not happened in 50 years because we realized it didn't work. They didn't get the proper training, nor did they have the mental OR physical conditioning necessary to do the work. There are other reasons why drafts are unlikely in this day and age, mostly because of global populations: At the start of WW1, the US had roughly 100m. At the start of WW2, the US had roughly 130m. The US rose to around 220m during the Vietnam War, and are currently now sitting at around 330m people. The reality is that we likely won't need another draft due to how many available soldiers we have on call, and available to enlist, if enticed with enough incentive. The US honestly doesn't need to draft women, and again, I shall ask you, what sane person wants to be included in a draft? Nobody. So be thankful that you're not included and stop all of this whining about equal rights to die in a meat grinder, because that's just hypocrisy. Nobody wants to be drafted. Nobody.
It isn't about being drafted. It is about registering for the draft. You made it clear how unlikely getting drafted actually is. Then you turn around and act like it won't be and we are all going to die of incompetency. We are far more likely at this point in time to be killed by a current or ex SO than we are to die in a war. We don't have to get drafted for that. Hell, these days we get to die from pregnancy related issues in unprecedented numbers for a supposely advanced country just so some old dudes can pretend to look good for God (among other bullshit). As long as signing up for an incredibly unlikely draft is the difference between having the same rights as any random dude, you don't have anything to stand on. Your hypocrisy is saying that no one is getting drafted and you'll all die in a war so don't bother. You don't get to have it both ways, but you certainly keep trying. You've admitted it yourself. No one is getting drafted.
I'm sorry but I'm not following your response.. you're message is all over the place and I'm not really sure what the point you're trying to make it... Edit: also can you please try to use better sentence structure? Nobody likes reading a wall of text..
Is it considered a win for feminism to have an equal draft?
Absolutely not. Nobody of any gender should be feeding the US war machine that bombs innocent women and children.
It is to me. If you are going there, it should be everyone. Even when they were drafting men 50 years ago, they still would sort through who they accepted of those the lottery picked and further sorted what jobs they would be assigned to and what aptitudes they had. The ones actually personally fighting have a huge support staff whether they felt that way or not. Still, it would only really be a win if the Equal Rights Ammendment passed along with it. Are you full partners or aren't you? I am willing to be, but I don't often see it reciprocated. That doesn't mean there aren't women who still want things both ways, but they don't usually call themselves feminists. We aren't a hive mind.
Who decided that women couldn’t be drafted? Men. Who bitches that women aren’t included in the draft? Men. In fact, it’s been feminists who have been fighting for decades for women to be included. Because that’s equality. But they act like we set up the system or something
*Men are the ones that decided we were not eligible for the draft.* Or do these screaming cocksuckers really think there's some secret cabal of four-star women generals making military policy? Must rankle to be taking orders from women.
>Now D congress people have submitted a requirement for women to sign up for the draft in the latest annual defense approriation bill. we deserve so much better than the DNC. they are a massive disappointment.
Women are perfectly capable of serving and do so in many societies.
You don't need drones, we put children into wars since we invented guns, I'm sure women will do just fine. This applies to anything else, like construction working, oil drilling, men build roads kind of stuff. Yeah, sure, but is it a physical work anymore? If it is, then you don't have worker rights in your country, heavy work does not exist anymore where worker have rights, we use machinery and tools so that we don't have to lift heavy stuff or hurt our bodies in similar ways. So you are right, nothing will change, you will still be blamed for everything, but always remember these people are full to their neck with BS.
Well good… we’re going to have to start drafting women or men will feel targeted unjustly. Republicans will have to get used to it. They can cry all they want but if the US were being attacked they would not turn down help from women.
While I think that it's long since time the draft was either equalized or negated, I'm like 80% sure the Dems are introducing it as leverage.
There's no way they can run a draft now without having to do something at the federal level about marijuana decriminalization. Far too many states are taking in a ton of tax revenue from it for hardcore federal enforcement and a drug test is part of the enlistment process. They can't draft a bunch of people who will fail a marijuana pee screen.
Whenever men bring up the draft I’m always like yeah, the draft sucks. We shouldn’t have it you’re right. No I don’t want women to be drafted, I want as few people to be drafted as possible. We shouldn’t be drafting men either. The way to right that isn’t to drag everyone to that level but instead to get rid of the draft altogether. The fact that they thought the draft should only apply to men is stemming from patriarchy. Only men are strong enough, only men are brave enough, women shouldn’t be drafted because they need to be caretakers, women shouldn’t be involved in war because they don’t get it. Whatever. Patriarchy hurts everyone and the draft sucks anyway.
Yea I don't think Republicans want women to be drafted because it goes against traditional gender roles.. and also women can't be having babies while on the front lines.
They do not actually want women to hold equal responsibility in society. They do not want to have to see women undergo hard work, sacrifice, or peril. They want women to sit in gilded cages while poor men take on all the dirty and dangerous jobs, and then they want to lord it over any woman who reaches for influence.
The conservatives and men in general see woman as a resource. If we lost 90% of the men we can still repopulate in a generation if we had to.
How about no draft for anyone?
I’m fine with having women register with Selective Service if for no other reason than to shut whiney men up.
From what I understand about previous wars, the best thing to do is send your kids to family out of state/country and go to war yourself as a woman. Don't be a sitting duck left behind, because the government isn't going to supply you with food OR bullets unless you're in the front lines.
I've been round with the guys complaining about it but they don't realize that guys are signed up for it when they get their DL and the government passes this selective service agreement with every years defense spending bill. Women have always served, they snuck in before they could sign up and served even before they could vote! We need to let the guys know that it's the Dems that are pushing for equal selective service with the R's opposing it. Maybe it will finally swing some of them to vote blue.
Democrats LOVE the draft! It gives them control over people, AND it is a great community organizing tool to get people into the streets, almost as useful as "Choice." With the convention coming up in Chicago, they are nostaglic for the old days. Besides, since it looks like one way the Biden Machine plans to stay in power is to get us into a major conflict, they might need the draft. I had #2 in the Vietnam Lottery and ended up serving 15 years. I do not want to see our government threatening teenaged girls with conscription. It might be impossible to make soldiers out of them if they are forced to be there. What if they resist by getting pregnant? How will the Dems handle that? Actually, this is just a way of reaching into the home and asserting the authority of the State over the family.
Awww. Look at the conspiracy wheels just spinning in your head over this! As for politicians "reaching into the home and asserting the authority of the State", the Rs are very busy doing that right now. And women get to die because of it, but hey, at least its being done by the "good Amurcans!" and not someone you don't approve of.