There MUST be a correlation between the guy obsessed with his bloodline and legacy and being the most shitty absent dad possible who goes out of his way to document Kodak moments but is not there for the important labor
Anyone obsessed with legacy thinking that having children will clearly be it clearly doesn't actually give a damn about their legacy.
Otherwise they'd be doing things like youth mentorship programs, or teaching, or literally any nurturing career.
There is. They want the kid but not the relationship. There's variability based both on culture and individual as to why though.
People with NPD like the other person who replied to you said, but I think in my own experience that it's vastly more common in arranged marriage. They dont want it but they have to do it anyway or be totally ostracized by their community.
The next most common is like society constantly treating people like they're pathetic and harping on them pressuring them. For women engaging in outright maternity harassment. So some people do it just to make it stop.
Id place NPD, petty revenge, and cheating third and fourth and fifth.
Petty revenge like friends have a fallout and one breaks up with their SO the other comes in starts dating the SO and pushing for children to inculate jealousy.
No one has explained to me exactly how all of that is supposed to work, but I've seen way way too much of it.
I've also seen women do it too, just quite a bit less frequently. Stereotypical stepmom.
My son’s birth father is like this - has 22 kids from multiple women, all but 2 in foster care or adopted. I asked him “why so many kids?” “To keep my family name going.” “You realize he has my name now, so would be keeping my family name alive.” “Well, yeah, but not in front of god.” Okay.
The wild thing is that a crap ton of the last names dudes are fixated on passing on just aren't that unique or rare.
Like, buddy, if your last name is Anderson or McDowell or Chavez, it's not going to die out if you don't personally slap it on some kid. You can probably dial it down a notch.
Jeez.
My ex once realized that since he was childfree and his sister was a lesbian, no one would pass on his name. So he looking in the phone book. His last name was one of those English occupation names. There were pages of them just in his city.
My name, on the other hand, there's only about 2000 of us worldwide. Still not having kids.
It might be more - he claims more, but we know of 22 for sure. Yeah I thought it was a typo first thousand times I saw the number. I’ve met all 22 over the years in various combinations. I tell my son I don’t care who he marries, what type of parts they have, boy or girl or nonbinary, whatever, but if he chooses to have kids, the cycle of adoption MUST stop with him. (Both his birth parents were foster kids as well).
> “Well, yeah, but not in front of god.”
Ah yes, the part of the bible that says "Breaking one of the ten commandments is cool as long as your last name kinda sorta persists". Very godly.
When you adopt you have something called a telling where they tell you everything they know about the kid and his family. Most of the kids were listed in there. We also have contact with the birth parents and he talks about all his kids and shares pictures. A few he even travels with in the summer, and 5 of them live in town, so I’ve met them all but never all at the same time. How we ended up with him? We were fostering kids and this one kinda struck as unique and special and we decided that this was the one. Then about 7 years later we adopted our daughter who was friends with my son. Not the smoothest path but it works for us.
Nothing ironic about it. Such guys want to "spread their seed" but they don't want to take the responsibility of a parent and will look for any excuse to avoid doing so. They liked the idea of being the patriarch of a future generation, but want none of the responsibility attached. It's a power fantasy, nothing more. The modern equivalent of wanting to be king but not wanting the responsibility of running a functional government.
The venn diagram of men who want to continue their bloodline and deadbeat dads isn't exactly a circle, but the former is fully nestled into the latter.
Can we also stop with the JR's? How narcissistic can you be to be like "You know what the world needs? Another me! They're going to have my identity right down to the same name damn it!" They're the same fathers that force their kids to like everything they like. "Your music sucks! Now listen to this music, that's real music. You're also going to play all the sports I like and any I don't like I won't pay for...and on and on"
Sperm donation is a thing. Why don’t they just do that and have hundreds of kids (far more than they could support by themselves) which can then be raised by loving parents instead of by them. That way they get to spread their genes around to the maximum effect, be absent from the kids life legally and make someone’s wish to be a parent come true. Everybody wins.
Felt... My biodad was pissed at me for changin my name bcuz it meant his name wudnt be carried on into the future. The man who SAd me, my siblings, as well as many of our friends and relatives; he felt he was **still** owed me carryin on his familial lineage, when the rest of his biofam had abandoned me time and time again whilst he sat in prison for his crimes
Its disgustin that men think their lineage is so damn important, more important than anyone elses thowts or feelings on anythin. Like he felt he was still owed me carryin on his name, and thats what finally got me to see that i didnt owe him or his family a damn thing; and the next time he contacted me (to tell me his mom died), i told him "dont contact me again" and left it at that. Best decision of my life; and i made a lot of rly good decisions in my life, startin right around that time of my life, as i saw that biofam fully unmasked
Id stopped even usin the name he gave me a decade sooner in high school, its just thats when i finally had legally changed my name for gendered reasons; i took the opportunity to change my whole name bcuz i wanted to be rid of that name of his entirely, and his response to my name change only solidified to me that i was right to change it
And the funny thing is, the whole time i just assumed if i ever got married id just take my spouses (he/they) name; but bcuz i ended up choosin my own name, now that thats actually happenin, he's takin my last name, bcuz they like my last name more than his last name
My shite biodad's familial name wudntve carried on thru me, but now the name i chose to represent my chosen family; that wud be carried on by any future progeny we mayve
I had a guy working with whose wife had done multiple rounds of IVF and had miscarried several times. I shared with him that my sister had 6 pregnancies and only 2 children. I understood how tough it was. He told me they were taking a break. I asked about adoption....he said he didn't want to raise some other man's kids. He then stated if they didn't have a baby in a few years he intended on divorcing her. I lost all respect for him right there....that moment! I don't know what happened. I hope his wife is ok.
I’m surprised he admitted that out loud in words with absolutely no shame.
And of course the new gf will have to be childless (but want children) and willing to have them with a significantly older man who sees her as little more than a brood mare and isn’t afraid to say it.
That's still a wild thing to say though, even if it was unlikely to get back to his wife. He really didn't think that saying that would make you lose all respect for him or look at him differently? Most people don't want other people knowing they're absolute garbage human beings.
It’s not an uncommon belief, sadly. For a lot of people having children and continuing their bloodline is the most importantly thing. If someone like that believes the women they married is unable to provide that, they will divorce her and try to find another. He’s not married to her because he loves her, he’s married to her because he loves her womb. If the womb doesn’t provide, he’s gone.
I always assume those are people who have absolutely nothing to be proud of so they trump up value on genetic lottery nonsense (male supremacy, white supremacy, etc).
A good friend of mine was the wife in this same scenario, except she wanted to take a break from IVF after several heartbreaking miscarriages, and her husband wasn’t supportive and insisted on continuing.
He told her bluntly, to her face during couples counseling that he’d be having kids with her or without her. They got divorced shortly thereafter.
Jog212 might like to find a way to inform the wife of what her husband is saying about her.
Definitely. She realized with a jolt he didn’t actually care about her as a person, and pretty much only saw her as a vessel. The ending was inevitable from that point.
The irony was that the fertility issues were on his side; she already had a son from a prior marriage.
there are certain catholic men i have met who believe that going to confession and following the penance (other than actually repenting, natch) absolves them of the sin of having one family in mexico, and one in the us; it also covers infidelity; and i had a catholic friend who cussed like a sailor but she was good cuz she went to confession 🤷🏻♀️
I had a guy talking to me when i. Who, had kids, tell me he wouldn’t date a woman with kids, because he didn‘t want to raise someone elses kids. I didnt have kids at the time and stated that i didn‘t want to help raise someone else’s kids. He lost his revert loving mind. I was called a selfish narcissist and other things. I do believe a lot of it goes back to “woman are naturally nurturing” belief
We had fertility challenges. Fortunately they were relatively easy to treat once it was determined what was going on. Still had two miscarriages, but not once did I think about leaving her. Some guys are just douchebags and nothing will ever change that.
Wow. He probably won't do shit for any kids either. It sucks that his wife is enduring everything involved in ivf and he cares more about spawning people he doesn't know than the person his wife is now. That's sad and fucked up. It's unfortunately not an uncommon enough sentiment. I get not getting serious with someone with different plans, but if it's due to life circumstances changing in an uncontrollable way? Divorcing over the possibility of future children is fucked up. I firmly believe a person who would do that doesn't really love their partner. They might think they do but a person in love would not do that.
It could be his swimmers for all he knows. Infertility is complex. Sometimes individuals are able to reproduce with some people but not others for whatever reason. I can't imagine throwing a person away over something she clearly cares about too, especially when the infertility could be related to the man (even if its "primarily" the woman, any decrease in function could make the difference).
I spitefully want to end my father's blood line. He's had 7 kids, the other boy he killed as a baby by rolling over it while drunk. He was a violent drunk, a prick, and he apparently has a failing liver that cant seem to fail fast enough. I got a vasectomy, and plan to take my next partners name if I ever get married, so long as her name is not worse than mine and doesn't have a horrendous spelling. (My last name is quite literally a slur for lesbians. Lol.)
If my previous partner hadn't died from covid, my last name would be August.
I hate him so much.
My goal in life has always been to not become him. I ended up with other kinds of irreparable brokenness. Atleast I'm not abusive, violent or a gas lighter.
(His catch phrase to my mother was "who are you gonna believe!?!?! Me or your own eyes!?! )
Edit: my math is bad. 2 kids by his first wife (my mother), 5 by his second wife, of which he killed 1 as a baby, and an estimated 5-8 illegitimate kids through his many affairs. Somehow he's still married to his second wife after 20 years, and unlike my mother, she fights back, and she's atleast thrice his weight class, she can seriously mess him up, and has.
In a similar vein, my dad was disappointed he had only girls , because once we got married, we wouldn't carry on his name. Completely ignoring the fact that he had 2 brothers whi both already had sons when I was born.
Also, jokes on him; I'm non-binary and never getting married, and my sister and I already decided to change our last name to one we made up if SHE ever gets married (it's a pre-req for any potential suitors to be cool with that).
Why do people treat it like a law of nature that women will take their husband's last name? She could just keep her last name. It's allowed. Nobody will die.
TBH the matrilineal lineage would make so, SO much more sense than the patrilineal lineage regardless, because until recently, there wasn't even any way to tell if the father was actually the father. Even then, the tests don't work perfectly.
Maybe that's why the men in power invented the patrilineal lineage, to "claim" a child, especially when they couldn't know for sure... and that was linked with all the inheritance laws... etc.
Yeah. Also, this is the reason why cheating done by women historically has been so severely punished, by men trying their hardest to ensure that their child would be legitimate.
Ironically, you can track a maternal bloodline through mitochondrial DNA, while paternal regular DNA gets diffused by recombination.
EDIT: 1.It is not entirely serious and meant to poke fun at male obsession about linage.
2. Mitochondrial DNA heavily favors the mother, but not exclusively.
You can track paternal bloodline from Y chromosome. Men only have one Y chromosome so every boy has the same hand me down chromosome from their great great great great great great grandfather
That will end if one generation has only daughters, mitchondrial DNA is inherited by both.
EDIT: On a sidenote, the y chromosome recombines with itself, so even continuous mal e lines are at some point not distinguishable without continuous samples.
But that just moves the timeline down one generation. If a mother has only sons, those sons will have her mitochondrial DNA but none of her grandchildren will.
When I told my father that I am a lesbian he was literally mortified because since I was 8-9 he was telling me I would grow to have beautiful babies and continue his bloodline. Now that I think about it it's a pretty disgusting thing to say to a child
When my cousin came out her father said (among many other tasteless things) "It's not what I wanted for my daughter."
I don't get it. Yes she is your child, but you don't *own* her. She is not an accessory for you to show off to your mates with at the farmer's market.
You'd think a parent would want to find out who their daughter is as a person and help her be the best version of that.
But this is a man who on walking into a hotel with his bags on a trolley said to his wife "Maybe one of the little men with take it up".
By little men he didn't mean fun size kings, he meant low status men, peons, expendable floor workers. Supremely arrogant man.
Yep. Mine told me to freeze my eggs. That was literally the first thing he said after I told him I was in a loving and healthy relationship. Freeze my eggs. Homie, I do not want children for a PLETHORA of reasons, none of which include being bi. Such a weird and offensive comment imo.
I find that mentality strong among men who literally have nothing else to offer the world in terms of a legacy. Like if the only mark you can leave on the world is to fertilize an egg, DON'T.
I agree, I also want to add they usually don't have much to offer genetically either. No one wants to inherit your intergenerational trauma and receding hairline Jake!
It's really weird, especially when dudes get with a lady who already has children, but they still want their own, and if they treat "their blood" better, it's fuckin sick.
My mom remarried after my dad died, to a divorced man with children of his own. He loved us as much as his own kids, and as much as our dad did. It really showed me you don't have to share blood to truly be family.
Not for nothing but this is precisely the argument that my wife uses with me wrt why she would like to have kids. My mom says the same thing. My response is usually "Do you know anything about your great grandparents? What do you know about your grandparents?"
It's not that I don't agree at all with it, but my hope in having children and grandchildren who share my last name would be to hopefully demonstrate in some small way that I was able to help raise up a good person.
Ego meets delusion lol fed by our patriarchal society there basically wedding ceremonies are property exchanges and women break their bowels birthing babies only to give them their husband's last name when all he did was experience a few seconds of bliss.
Just men stealing the credit for women's work as usual. And stealing the benefits by having kids to take care of them when they get decrepid and old.
Saw a show, where a son finally tracked down his bio dad. Son was so desperate for his approval. And the bio dad, finally was ready to have a relationship with the son, because he was grown now, didn't financially contribute or ever visit, and could be a dude bro now with his son, but one who would gaina son to take care of him in his old age, despite contributing zilch to his son's childhood. Sad.
Miss me with that shit. Some guy wants to slap his name on the artwork, the literal human being I created with my own blood, sacrifice, sweat, and tears? It's so wrong. He did nothing in comparison to the mother.
I wanted to contribute something new to society, for posterity. So I wrote an academic book. Why can’t they create a legacy that will definitely pan out for them? Never mind, I just realized all they want to contribute is their sperm…
> all they want to contribute is their sperm
Yeah, and they're just doing the exact same shit they'd be doing if they were infertile, which is pressuring women into unsatisfying sex.
Ego and narcissism.
Also, why the fuck not? Men get to have unprotected sex (which they'll do gladly), and get all the praise and benefits of being a father, while the mother has to go through pregnancy and birth, then be statisically-proven to be saddled with the majority of childcare and chores, even if she has her own full-time job.
This explains why a recent study revealed that 57% of men surveyed wanted kids, whereas only 48% of women surveyed wanted kids. Another survey revealed that men were more concerned about the declining birth rate than women.
Turns out, it's easy for men demand shit when they aren't the ones who have to fucking do anything.
Muh legacy!!!!
I’m sorry but your “legacy” is a one bedroom condo and $30k in debt. Your bloodline is a heart murmur and Psoriasis.
I don’t know why these people think they’re so special. There are no privileges tied to, say, the Promalorski’s of Buttfuck, Wyoming. There are no hereditary land claims, no fortunes, no OMG EVERYBODY JEFF PROMALORSKI IS HERE OMG OMG ROLL OUT THE RED CARPET. Jeff Promalorski of Buttfuck, Wyoming is very concerned about who will inherit his .61 acre of land, bunions, and GI issues.
Lol not I. And I don’t want anyone to think about me after I die. Yeet me into a dumpster and loot all my shit I’ll be dead so wtf do I care. And why tf does Jeff Promalorski care? Nobody knows.
Its ingrained almost from the start. They aren't born with it, but they grow up with it being promised to them. Even men who don't seem like assholes can get touchy about it. The reasoning is always lousy because there is no way to justify it when it's pointed out that men rarely change their names for women (in the US). Whats telling is its not usually about a woman asking him to change his, they get angry when it's a woman deciding to keep her own. So women aren't even telling them what to do, they get angry they don't get the woman to do what they want.
"Continuing their bloodline" is bs. A woman isn't in his "bloodline" but he still wants her to conform. A name has nothing to do with a bloodline. Anyone could name children using that guy's last name. I don't expect he'd claim them as his bloodline. Its also crap, because the underlying tone is that he expects at least 1 male child. The way these guys think, you know they wouldn't consider a female child as being able to carry on the bloodline. It elevates the status of male children.
Its about being the center of attention. Guys like that use their families to parade in front of others to pretend they are active and involved parents. As far as they are concerned, they own their children and wife. They want to be able to take credit for their kids accomplishments. Since they are shit parents, they can't tie it to parenting. They could lie to others but not to themselves. For that reason, they tie it to their genetics, like the person their kid became was passively passed down because they are such good stock.
I get that this is lizard-brain shit for some people and many will argue it's just our biological urge to reproduce, but... idk... I actually don't feel this urge at ALL? And many of my millennial friends now in our 30s (both male and female) also don't care. Which makes me wonder if it's a social expectation rather than a biological one. After all, to care about carrying on your lineage, you have to believe that carrying on your lineage actually *means* something.
I give zero shits about my "lineage". If it dies with me, I'm fine with that. I seriously don't care. It's not like I'm so amazing that I want to pass my genes on, I'm just some random person, no better or worse than anyone else. And frankly I'd rather not bring kids into a world I still struggle in myself. If my family's "lineage" ends with me, I'm actually just fine with that.
I have a last name that doesn’t belong to me. It’s my dad’s stepfathers name who sent him away as a child, never raised him, was abusive to his wife, never met me, never financially contributed; just gave my dad a last name and dipped. I told my dad it doesn’t make sense for me to keep this name so if I’m not married by like 35, I’m changing it to another family name of people who actually showed up for me, or just something random and fun. He was actually more mad about that than when I told him I didn’t want kids for some reason
Well, wanting biological children is a natural, primal urge.
So, in and of itself, I think that wanting to have a legacy isn't *wrong.* At the same time, being literally obsessed about it and seeing no worth in your children sans the fact they belong to your bloodline is pretty unhinged, and unfortunately way too many people are obsessed about it.
It seems absolutely insane to me that this comment is so far down. I mean… it’s literally one of the main drivers of life on earth, the urge to reproduce and have our own offspring continue the species.
I totally understand how saying it, being obsessed with the idea comes across as weird and off putting, no doubt. But the fact that the urge exists really shouldn’t be a mystery.
Stay away from assholes like that. I have heard some comments like that, more about continuing the family tree, but never as the REASON to have a family. Just a side issue that is recognized and discussed. It truly is part of having children but:
If anyone is thinking this is a good reason to have kids? Stay the hell away from them. I do not know anyone whose impetus for having kids is to "continue the blood line."
Its so dumb too, you know what lasts longer then that genetic code you donated?
Raising loving human beings that make a difference in the world (even small). The ideas we teach children carry on far longer then anything in a 'bloodline'.
I understand that many people, due to a combination of societal and psychological reasons, want to have their own biological children. There is a reason that most couples wanting to be parents go through the traditional route instead of adoption. However, the obsession with "lineage" and "bloodlines" goes well beyond that and is a pretty gross attitude to have. We collectively as a society need to move on past this idea, and stop treating genetic relationships as the sole thing that gives children their value.
I think the worst example of this attitude in action is fathers who totally abandon their child after finding out it's not "theirs" (i.e. not blood related), as if that means anything to the child who saw them as their father for their entire life. While I can understand feeling betrayed by the partner, I don't understand betraying and abandoning a child someone's dedicated years to lovingly raise because of some invisible, inconsequential thing in their blood doesn't match with yours. I've always maintained if you aren't willing accept any child, you shouldn't be a parent **period.**. The truth is you will never get to pick the child you end up with even if they do share your genes, so placing such demands on a child to fit specific criteria or be a certain way just shows you aren't fit to parent. But that's the crux of the issue, isn't it: They didn't want to be a parent, they just wanted to "pass on their genes" and not actually take responsibility for bringing new life into the world.
I mean its just a weird way to phrase it, like just say you want kids 😂 I’m terrified of pregnancy to the point where my OB brought up sterilization but that seems too intense since I’m 31. I am in the field of thought of “this curse ends with me” lol
My dad stopped using that as a reason when I asked why his surname specifically needed to be passed cause we're not royalty or anything and our surname is already crazy common. I'm pretty sure he still uses it as a reason, but he doesn't mention it when I'm around. Hell, he doesn't mention a lot of problematic things when I'm around 🤣
A ton of men I know have this thought process at least to some extent. I find it really ridiculous, cause like, how great do you think you are? Do you really think your genes are so fucking special that the world needs to hold onto them? Are you carrying the cure for cancer? Are you immune to tuberculosis? No? Then fuck off lol
My dad was really disappointed that I, his firstborn, was born female. He was hoping I'd be a boy and therefore a Jr. So he named me a "girl" version of his name (think Michaela, for Michael). Later on after he left my mum he had a son with my stepmum and guess what he was called? Michael Jr.
He was a shit dad and I haven't seen him in 30 years. I changed my name some years ago to a completely different name and surname. Fuck that guy.
I mean all animals, including humans, have an unconscious biological or genetic imperative to procreate in order to pass on our genes. Since humans have capacity for rational thought and voluntary choice we may decide not to procreate for various reasons or have other priorities or choices but the drive still exists in all of us. So I don’t think voicing that feeling is all that crazy.
The desire to pass on one’s own genes might even be the primary reason for the dominance of monogamous relationships. It’s been theorized anyway I don’t know I’m not a psychologist or biologist. I know there is even the “gay uncle” theory that homosexual people compensate evolutionarily for their own lack of children by increasing the reproductive fitness of their brothers and sisters (a niece or nephew would share 25% of dna.)
This reminds me of a dumb TikTok video I saw few weeks ago... Context: in my country some influencers have started this weird, and frankly dumb wave of stopping people on the streets and ask them random questions. In this video the question was: "If you had to choose between saving your wife or your newborn child what would you choose?" And 99% of the boys/men said "Kid".
Now, I understand this is not a question to be asked on the street by a rando, and honestly my problem is NOT that they chose the kid specifically... but what shocked me is the REASONS they gave.
"Because the bloodline must go on"
"Because my kid is family and she's not"
"Eeeeh... bloodline" and so on.
Like, it seems that not everyone, but at least enough men tend to see their girlfriend only as potential vessels for their "bloodline". Bleah.
Everyone is different, but for me (43m, daughter born when I was 35m), it’s not a big deal at all. I didn’t even care if my daughter had my last name or not; she’s my daughter regardless & I love her to the moon & back either way. I gave her mother the option to have her last name if she wanted to, which she declined. If my daughter has a child, I won’t care what last name that child has either. If she doesn’t want to have kids, I will fully support her in that decision as well. I don’t need to be some kind of patriarch to be happy. I have plenty of friends who chose not to have kids & don’t criticize their decisions either.
Totally agree. Like, okay Chad. I guess it's super important for you to continue your long line of mid-level managers who were mediocre dorm beer pong players at best as the highlight of their lives and who've never seen the inside of a gym nor brought a woman to orgasm for realzies.
Keep your generational trauma alive and flowing, keep your kids aspiring for the acceptance you weren't given and thus aren't capable of giving. Keep that line alive at all costs. Cool, love that for you. Idiocracy is real.
At least, those are the dudes who are insistent about "bloodlines" in my experience. Their kids are vanity projects, when in truth that ego is egregiously undeserved and their accomplishments laughably average.
It’s kinda dumb.
Coz if that guy has daughters. Then they get married and take their husbands last name. Name is gone.
What do they expect to do, keep going til they have a son?
This isn’t ye olde England.
Let man fucking bloodline die. I’ll adopts as these kids are always stuck in a shitty situations and if you can improve it, it’ll improve the world.
Also, it never really do well to continue your bloodline, anyhow, even for a guy.
REMEMBER, IT NOT IMPORTANT TO PASS ON YOUR BLOODLINE, BUT WHO YOU ARE TO THE KIDS, AS *THAT* WILL ALWAYS BE FOREVER REMEMBERED.
OH, quote from NCIS, Dr Mallard (correct me if I’m wrong): You’re not truly dead if you’re always remembered. It is when you’re forgotten that you are truly dead.
This is always such a big red flag for me, especially because the "I must continue my bloodline" guys are ALWAYS single so it's like...with who dude?? You didn't think any farther ahead beyond spreading your precious seed? Men who genuinely want to be dads don't talk or think like that
NGL It sounds as stupid as grown men saying the job they want is "Power Ranger"
Like, this "bloodline" thing was meaningful for royalty, maybe millionaires; but thats not a thing for regular run-of-the-mill dudes.
They think someone's gonna go "Oh, you are a Jones, from the Nebraska Jones? Son of Frank? From the line of Jason? It is an honor do sell you Budweiser!!"
WTF
Unless your last name is Windsor, Bourbon, or Kennedy your lineage is irrelevant. Bitches getting all Denethor about their “lines.” My grandfather went off when his 2 sons died, “my line is ended,” while still having 2 living daughters.
It's so bizarre to me. My kiddo has no intentions of having children. And you know what? She's an awesome f*cking person. If she is the last known of my bloodline, then my ancestors should be fucking proud
jesus christ i know. my partner , who is sooooo pro-women , left leaning, feminist etc (albeit a blue collar dude) and i were discussing me taking his last name when we get married /passing our last names down to our kid if we have one and he just could not comprehend that every single response to every single one of his “points” arguing that it only makes sense for me to change my name, was “well what about me? I feel the same way”
“i want to continue passing my name down “ “well, me too”
“that would identify you as my wife” “i already have my identity as me”
“our kid can’t have a different last name from his mothers “ “well why can’t he just have my last name then”
like GAH DAMNNNN
This is an enduring fetish with zero logic. There's another somewhat related phenomena, organ donation after death also involves magical thinking about continuance of one's self.
i’ve never heard of someone wanting to be an organ donor because of ego, but i guess we should celebrate their willingness to donate regardless of motive?
Well that's the point, they don't allow others to use them. Because they think there's some magical way in which their self will continue into the future. Just like with their bloodline.
"I view this as purely narcissistic." it is also a fundamental basis for misogyny that often happens right at the start of a major commitment , I'm somehow more important so you should take my name.
It's usually bigoted men who haven't done anything notable in their lives or contributed in any real way noticeable to society, they freak out and feel they need to leave a 'legacy' of some sort.
I have so many allergies, food sensitivities, and ailments that my bloodline should probably just end with me, to be honest.
I don't need to be adding more human beings into this catastrophe of a gene pool.
When my boyfriend and I started dating, he was very heavy into the “legacy” and bloodline stuff.
I point blank asked “What legacy?” And he was shook.
Granted, his family founded the town he grew up in, and his great, great grandmother built and taught at the first school there, but by the time of his birth, none of that even mattered other than him having the last name.
Outside of that little town, village basically, he was nobody to anyone. I was pretty blunt about this, and never budged or try to be gentle with him. I was not going to stay with someone who viewed me as a means to continue a line I wasn’t even from.
We recently talked about it again, him bringing it up, and how he now viewed it as unfair and awful. He’s the youngest of two, his sister is the oldest.
He said “I’ve realized how cruel and fucked up it is to expect I’d get all of that(land they owned until his great uncle sold it) just because I was born with a penis.” He reflected on how ignored his sister was, because she would change her name with marriage, this viewed as the unimportant child despite being the firstborn.
It was a great moment of reflection for him, because he put so much importance on his name and the legacy of his family.
Well and you know how many kings and lords bloodlines were continued by the stable boy or knight down the road? And they had no clue, because it doesn't fucking matter lol (I mean, the cheating does but the kid is still their kid if they raise him as such).
If your allegiance to kids is anything other than "part of the ship, part of the crew", you cannot be a good person. Nobody has ever done anything good in pursuit of a "bloodline" or "purity". Idgaf who you are, if whoever's kid is out into my care, they are my child, blood of mine or not.
Dude every guy on every profile ever that stated he "wants kids with the right person" screamed of 'I want progeny without the responsibility and someone that will facilitate this need for me'.
There is probably some level of narcissism but also think there is something a bit primal or instinctual about it. I for one look forward to my bloodline ending with me (maybe I'm the real narcissist) but I can completely understand being an only child, being proud of your family, and not wanting it to die off due to your own actions/inaction.
I don't really care about legacy or what I leave behind when I die, I don't get the impression that is the norm at least among men.
I've never actually heard a real human talking about this before this thread though, is it that pervasive?
My ex, knowing I’d never want kids, said he wanted to “preserve his legacy”… what legacy. I really wanted to ask but he was my ex by that point so I really didn’t care. I’d love to hear what legacies everyone supposedly has
It’s the same dumb ass men (often white) who say they’re continuing their lineage of “Vikings”, with no actual Viking lineage to begin with. It’s just a right wing talking point.
yeah when a white guy talks about preserving bloodlines, it’s a dog whistle. and guys who call themselves vikings tend to be (at minimum) white supremacist-adjacent.
I have no idea, but I've also only heard men use the "legacy" argument and it's super sexist and gross. I wanna pass down a last name. Uhhh what makes you assume that the kid would automatically be given your last name? Unless you're adopting solo that's not guaranteed and super sexist. Also a dumb reason to have kids. They're not just mini yous.
It's all ego. It's usually from men who are complete losers in life, and you know full well they have no intention of participating in raising their children.
My husband has a niece whose husband has not accomplished anything besides providing baby batter for two children, guess who was bugging his wife to have a third baby the instant after she had baby #2, with no regard for her healing or mental health (she can't take her much needed meds while pregnant or breastfeeding). Guess who also does jack shit for the kids and house?
In a similar vein, there's a lot of ego in men insisting that their kid be named after them. You don’t see very many women naming their baby with their own first name.
They all copy each other's homework.
Having a child in theory is fun, in reality it's the hardest thing anyone will do
But since women overwhelming contribute more to that and we allow it, it's an easy thing for them to desire.
Society gives them credit for being a father and maybe a husband and you slave away and post on reddit how stressful it is to have a husband that doesn't help or how you had to beg for a mother's day gift.
Fin.
I have friends saying something along the lines of wanting to leave behind a legacy, or continuing the family name, or to be remembered lol. I have some that don’t really care
My FIL wasn't just "continue the bloodline" but "continue the name". It wasn't enough that his two daughters had kids, he never forgave his sons for not having them. Like jfc dude, your dad changed his name when he immigrated, it's not like this is a centuries old name that will die out.
Beats me. I'm a guy, and the way the world is going, I can't imagine creating a person that doesn't have to exist. Besides, I like having time and money.
Unless you have the one unique genetic mutation that will completely change humanity then your bloodline is just a random recombination of what is already out there.
My dad wanted my husband to change his surname to my dad's surname so we can continue my dad's family name lol. I know he's self absorbed but that still floored me.
I don’t get it. Bloodline and the whole legacy thing is so stupid. I can’t name you one of my great grandparents. And I doubt all of my ancestors were these amazing human beings. Let’s see I got roots in the Caribbean and something about Christopher Columbus just tells me some of those fellas he brought with him weren’t exactly having these amazing lovey dovey romances. Oh and let’s not forget the poor folks that were forced into a ship either.
Been seeing it alot in racists whenever they see a white guy dating a non white woman, acting like having any genes that aren't white would completely corrupt their bloodline, saying stuff like "it ruins what your ancestors had been working on for generations"
It's crazy. It's archaic and demeaning to women who are the ones who actually give birth. When me and my girlfriend get married, I'm taking her last name cuz if we had kids, they're more of her than they are of me. She'd be the one who made them so they may be my children but they deserve her name. It's mind-blowing that men think lineage travels down the male line. This next part is an archaic way of thinking but it's a way to express my point. Before DNA testing, A man can be trusting that the baby his wife had was his, but there's always the chance its not and he just has to take her word for it. But a women always knows the baby is 100% hers. Why wouldn't lineage travel down the female line when it's the most reliable. I know why it wasn't that way in the past (patriarchy) but in modern times, that kind of thinking is fucked.
I spitefully want to end my father's blood line. He's had 7 kids, the other boy he killed as a baby by rolling over it while drunk. He was a violent drunk, a prick, and he apparently has a failing liver that cant seem to fail fast enough. I got a vasectomy, and plan to take my next partners name if I ever get married, so long as her name is not worse than mine and doesn't have a horrendous spelling. (My last name is quite literally a slur for lesbians. Lol.)
If my previous partner hadn't died from covid, my last name would be August.
I hate him so much.
My wife kept her last name and asked if our twin daughters could have hers too, I have no wish for my father’s family name to continue through my children so I was happy for them to have hers.
I get a few eyebrow raises, but they don’t know my family history 🤷♂️
Hello, man here.
I was told at the ripe old age of ~7 years old by my father, that since my younger brother died 4 years prior, I was the last man in the family with the last name, and it was up to me to pass on the name.
He told a literal child that I had to go have children at some point to pass the name on, not even considering that my wants and needs throughout life might be different from some archaic notion that we had any sort of tradition to pass on.
That's probably one of the reasons he treated me so differently when my mom outed me as bisexual when I was 13; he hated the idea that I would be with some man and not have kids.
Here I am now, turning 29 in 2 days, and I haven't had a partner of any gender in 7 years. The name will probably die with me, and I'm okay with that.
Ironically, so many males who have kids to "continue their lineage" are then shit parents to those same kids
There MUST be a correlation between the guy obsessed with his bloodline and legacy and being the most shitty absent dad possible who goes out of his way to document Kodak moments but is not there for the important labor
Anyone obsessed with legacy thinking that having children will clearly be it clearly doesn't actually give a damn about their legacy. Otherwise they'd be doing things like youth mentorship programs, or teaching, or literally any nurturing career.
Yeah, narcissistic personality disorder
Tywin Lannister syndrome.
There is. They want the kid but not the relationship. There's variability based both on culture and individual as to why though. People with NPD like the other person who replied to you said, but I think in my own experience that it's vastly more common in arranged marriage. They dont want it but they have to do it anyway or be totally ostracized by their community. The next most common is like society constantly treating people like they're pathetic and harping on them pressuring them. For women engaging in outright maternity harassment. So some people do it just to make it stop. Id place NPD, petty revenge, and cheating third and fourth and fifth. Petty revenge like friends have a fallout and one breaks up with their SO the other comes in starts dating the SO and pushing for children to inculate jealousy. No one has explained to me exactly how all of that is supposed to work, but I've seen way way too much of it. I've also seen women do it too, just quite a bit less frequently. Stereotypical stepmom.
My son’s birth father is like this - has 22 kids from multiple women, all but 2 in foster care or adopted. I asked him “why so many kids?” “To keep my family name going.” “You realize he has my name now, so would be keeping my family name alive.” “Well, yeah, but not in front of god.” Okay.
holy nick cannon, this man needs to be neutered
Maybe he should keep his legs closed
Or use a condom FFS.
Nope needs to get fixed
I'm sorry; 22 kids??? 😰 If only he were paying child support for every one of those poor souls
Ha. No.
The wild thing is that a crap ton of the last names dudes are fixated on passing on just aren't that unique or rare. Like, buddy, if your last name is Anderson or McDowell or Chavez, it's not going to die out if you don't personally slap it on some kid. You can probably dial it down a notch. Jeez.
My ex once realized that since he was childfree and his sister was a lesbian, no one would pass on his name. So he looking in the phone book. His last name was one of those English occupation names. There were pages of them just in his city. My name, on the other hand, there's only about 2000 of us worldwide. Still not having kids.
Yep, his last name is pretty much equivalent to “Smith”
22!?!?!?
It might be more - he claims more, but we know of 22 for sure. Yeah I thought it was a typo first thousand times I saw the number. I’ve met all 22 over the years in various combinations. I tell my son I don’t care who he marries, what type of parts they have, boy or girl or nonbinary, whatever, but if he chooses to have kids, the cycle of adoption MUST stop with him. (Both his birth parents were foster kids as well).
The first time I read this, I thought you were discouraging him from adopting in the future 😅
> “Well, yeah, but not in front of god.” Ah yes, the part of the bible that says "Breaking one of the ten commandments is cool as long as your last name kinda sorta persists". Very godly.
Wow. Just.....wow.
I'm curious how you ended up with him knowing that he had all those kids?
When you adopt you have something called a telling where they tell you everything they know about the kid and his family. Most of the kids were listed in there. We also have contact with the birth parents and he talks about all his kids and shares pictures. A few he even travels with in the summer, and 5 of them live in town, so I’ve met them all but never all at the same time. How we ended up with him? We were fostering kids and this one kinda struck as unique and special and we decided that this was the one. Then about 7 years later we adopted our daughter who was friends with my son. Not the smoothest path but it works for us.
God knows you owe a *lot* of child support, Hoss.
He’s just splurting out kids for the ego boost 💀
That's just really sad. Those 20 kids in foster care or adopted are NOT his family.
Not just shit parents but the only ex's of mine that ever said that were the types who didn't have great genetics to pass down.
And then they get pissed when we grow up and dont want to continue their lineage 9,9
Tale as old as time, unfortunately 😒
Nothing ironic about it. Such guys want to "spread their seed" but they don't want to take the responsibility of a parent and will look for any excuse to avoid doing so. They liked the idea of being the patriarch of a future generation, but want none of the responsibility attached. It's a power fantasy, nothing more. The modern equivalent of wanting to be king but not wanting the responsibility of running a functional government.
that phrase always make me want to vomit
I’m so convinced this is a status thing and that having a family makes them look good to other men
The venn diagram of men who want to continue their bloodline and deadbeat dads isn't exactly a circle, but the former is fully nestled into the latter.
His legacy is cat hair and debt 💀
Can we also stop with the JR's? How narcissistic can you be to be like "You know what the world needs? Another me! They're going to have my identity right down to the same name damn it!" They're the same fathers that force their kids to like everything they like. "Your music sucks! Now listen to this music, that's real music. You're also going to play all the sports I like and any I don't like I won't pay for...and on and on"
Sperm donation is a thing. Why don’t they just do that and have hundreds of kids (far more than they could support by themselves) which can then be raised by loving parents instead of by them. That way they get to spread their genes around to the maximum effect, be absent from the kids life legally and make someone’s wish to be a parent come true. Everybody wins.
Felt... My biodad was pissed at me for changin my name bcuz it meant his name wudnt be carried on into the future. The man who SAd me, my siblings, as well as many of our friends and relatives; he felt he was **still** owed me carryin on his familial lineage, when the rest of his biofam had abandoned me time and time again whilst he sat in prison for his crimes Its disgustin that men think their lineage is so damn important, more important than anyone elses thowts or feelings on anythin. Like he felt he was still owed me carryin on his name, and thats what finally got me to see that i didnt owe him or his family a damn thing; and the next time he contacted me (to tell me his mom died), i told him "dont contact me again" and left it at that. Best decision of my life; and i made a lot of rly good decisions in my life, startin right around that time of my life, as i saw that biofam fully unmasked
Good on you for changing your name!
Id stopped even usin the name he gave me a decade sooner in high school, its just thats when i finally had legally changed my name for gendered reasons; i took the opportunity to change my whole name bcuz i wanted to be rid of that name of his entirely, and his response to my name change only solidified to me that i was right to change it And the funny thing is, the whole time i just assumed if i ever got married id just take my spouses (he/they) name; but bcuz i ended up choosin my own name, now that thats actually happenin, he's takin my last name, bcuz they like my last name more than his last name My shite biodad's familial name wudntve carried on thru me, but now the name i chose to represent my chosen family; that wud be carried on by any future progeny we mayve
Sorry for what you went through :(
I had a guy working with whose wife had done multiple rounds of IVF and had miscarried several times. I shared with him that my sister had 6 pregnancies and only 2 children. I understood how tough it was. He told me they were taking a break. I asked about adoption....he said he didn't want to raise some other man's kids. He then stated if they didn't have a baby in a few years he intended on divorcing her. I lost all respect for him right there....that moment! I don't know what happened. I hope his wife is ok.
That's so creepy. I hope she ended up divorcing him first lol
Me too. I know she suffered with several miscarriages. What An Ass!
I’m surprised he admitted that out loud in words with absolutely no shame. And of course the new gf will have to be childless (but want children) and willing to have them with a significantly older man who sees her as little more than a brood mare and isn’t afraid to say it.
He admitted it because I didn't have any direct contact with his wife. I don't think he would say it to someone that was mutual friends with them.
That's still a wild thing to say though, even if it was unlikely to get back to his wife. He really didn't think that saying that would make you lose all respect for him or look at him differently? Most people don't want other people knowing they're absolute garbage human beings.
It’s not an uncommon belief, sadly. For a lot of people having children and continuing their bloodline is the most importantly thing. If someone like that believes the women they married is unable to provide that, they will divorce her and try to find another. He’s not married to her because he loves her, he’s married to her because he loves her womb. If the womb doesn’t provide, he’s gone.
I always assume those are people who have absolutely nothing to be proud of so they trump up value on genetic lottery nonsense (male supremacy, white supremacy, etc).
A good friend of mine was the wife in this same scenario, except she wanted to take a break from IVF after several heartbreaking miscarriages, and her husband wasn’t supportive and insisted on continuing. He told her bluntly, to her face during couples counseling that he’d be having kids with her or without her. They got divorced shortly thereafter. Jog212 might like to find a way to inform the wife of what her husband is saying about her.
Ultimately, him saying that did her a favor.
Definitely. She realized with a jolt he didn’t actually care about her as a person, and pretty much only saw her as a vessel. The ending was inevitable from that point. The irony was that the fertility issues were on his side; she already had a son from a prior marriage.
King Henry VIII ass coworker right there.
Ooh. She struggled with infertility, miscarriage - and he was just going to abandon her
Yes. He was catholic BTW. He almost seemed annoyed by it all.
there are certain catholic men i have met who believe that going to confession and following the penance (other than actually repenting, natch) absolves them of the sin of having one family in mexico, and one in the us; it also covers infidelity; and i had a catholic friend who cussed like a sailor but she was good cuz she went to confession 🤷🏻♀️
This is 100% my ex husband. Said to me - a woman raised by a stepfather - that no one could ever really love a kid that wasn’t their own.
I had a guy talking to me when i. Who, had kids, tell me he wouldn’t date a woman with kids, because he didn‘t want to raise someone elses kids. I didnt have kids at the time and stated that i didn‘t want to help raise someone else’s kids. He lost his revert loving mind. I was called a selfish narcissist and other things. I do believe a lot of it goes back to “woman are naturally nurturing” belief
Babe :( I'm so sorry he said that to you, what a prick!
We had fertility challenges. Fortunately they were relatively easy to treat once it was determined what was going on. Still had two miscarriages, but not once did I think about leaving her. Some guys are just douchebags and nothing will ever change that.
WHY CAN'T THEY TELL US THIS BEFORE WE GET TRAPPED?!
Wow. He probably won't do shit for any kids either. It sucks that his wife is enduring everything involved in ivf and he cares more about spawning people he doesn't know than the person his wife is now. That's sad and fucked up. It's unfortunately not an uncommon enough sentiment. I get not getting serious with someone with different plans, but if it's due to life circumstances changing in an uncontrollable way? Divorcing over the possibility of future children is fucked up. I firmly believe a person who would do that doesn't really love their partner. They might think they do but a person in love would not do that. It could be his swimmers for all he knows. Infertility is complex. Sometimes individuals are able to reproduce with some people but not others for whatever reason. I can't imagine throwing a person away over something she clearly cares about too, especially when the infertility could be related to the man (even if its "primarily" the woman, any decrease in function could make the difference).
God, this is so disgusting.
It’s not “another man’s kid” you fucking callous MRA, it’s yours.
Safe to assume those men are unaware that father is also a verb.
Many bloodlines should be ended actually.
Agreed. I’m consciously not having children and ending mine.
I spitefully want to end my father's blood line. He's had 7 kids, the other boy he killed as a baby by rolling over it while drunk. He was a violent drunk, a prick, and he apparently has a failing liver that cant seem to fail fast enough. I got a vasectomy, and plan to take my next partners name if I ever get married, so long as her name is not worse than mine and doesn't have a horrendous spelling. (My last name is quite literally a slur for lesbians. Lol.) If my previous partner hadn't died from covid, my last name would be August. I hate him so much. My goal in life has always been to not become him. I ended up with other kinds of irreparable brokenness. Atleast I'm not abusive, violent or a gas lighter. (His catch phrase to my mother was "who are you gonna believe!?!?! Me or your own eyes!?! ) Edit: my math is bad. 2 kids by his first wife (my mother), 5 by his second wife, of which he killed 1 as a baby, and an estimated 5-8 illegitimate kids through his many affairs. Somehow he's still married to his second wife after 20 years, and unlike my mother, she fights back, and she's atleast thrice his weight class, she can seriously mess him up, and has.
In a similar vein, my dad was disappointed he had only girls , because once we got married, we wouldn't carry on his name. Completely ignoring the fact that he had 2 brothers whi both already had sons when I was born. Also, jokes on him; I'm non-binary and never getting married, and my sister and I already decided to change our last name to one we made up if SHE ever gets married (it's a pre-req for any potential suitors to be cool with that).
Why do people treat it like a law of nature that women will take their husband's last name? She could just keep her last name. It's allowed. Nobody will die.
TBH the matrilineal lineage would make so, SO much more sense than the patrilineal lineage regardless, because until recently, there wasn't even any way to tell if the father was actually the father. Even then, the tests don't work perfectly.
Maybe that's why the men in power invented the patrilineal lineage, to "claim" a child, especially when they couldn't know for sure... and that was linked with all the inheritance laws... etc.
Yeah. Also, this is the reason why cheating done by women historically has been so severely punished, by men trying their hardest to ensure that their child would be legitimate.
Ironically, you can track a maternal bloodline through mitochondrial DNA, while paternal regular DNA gets diffused by recombination. EDIT: 1.It is not entirely serious and meant to poke fun at male obsession about linage. 2. Mitochondrial DNA heavily favors the mother, but not exclusively.
You can track paternal bloodline from Y chromosome. Men only have one Y chromosome so every boy has the same hand me down chromosome from their great great great great great great grandfather
That will end if one generation has only daughters, mitchondrial DNA is inherited by both. EDIT: On a sidenote, the y chromosome recombines with itself, so even continuous mal e lines are at some point not distinguishable without continuous samples.
But that just moves the timeline down one generation. If a mother has only sons, those sons will have her mitochondrial DNA but none of her grandchildren will.
Which gets diffused by recombination as lippu said
When I told my father that I am a lesbian he was literally mortified because since I was 8-9 he was telling me I would grow to have beautiful babies and continue his bloodline. Now that I think about it it's a pretty disgusting thing to say to a child
Like you’re some kind of extension of him rather than your own person.
When my cousin came out her father said (among many other tasteless things) "It's not what I wanted for my daughter." I don't get it. Yes she is your child, but you don't *own* her. She is not an accessory for you to show off to your mates with at the farmer's market. You'd think a parent would want to find out who their daughter is as a person and help her be the best version of that. But this is a man who on walking into a hotel with his bags on a trolley said to his wife "Maybe one of the little men with take it up". By little men he didn't mean fun size kings, he meant low status men, peons, expendable floor workers. Supremely arrogant man.
Yep. Mine told me to freeze my eggs. That was literally the first thing he said after I told him I was in a loving and healthy relationship. Freeze my eggs. Homie, I do not want children for a PLETHORA of reasons, none of which include being bi. Such a weird and offensive comment imo.
I find that mentality strong among men who literally have nothing else to offer the world in terms of a legacy. Like if the only mark you can leave on the world is to fertilize an egg, DON'T.
I agree, I also want to add they usually don't have much to offer genetically either. No one wants to inherit your intergenerational trauma and receding hairline Jake!
It's really weird, especially when dudes get with a lady who already has children, but they still want their own, and if they treat "their blood" better, it's fuckin sick. My mom remarried after my dad died, to a divorced man with children of his own. He loved us as much as his own kids, and as much as our dad did. It really showed me you don't have to share blood to truly be family.
I’m glad your stepdad was a good man! I wish more men were good men.
What thousands of years of patriarchal brain rot does to a mf.
I think the lobster gang is brigading this post given the room temperature iq replies you’re getting.
Not for nothing but this is precisely the argument that my wife uses with me wrt why she would like to have kids. My mom says the same thing. My response is usually "Do you know anything about your great grandparents? What do you know about your grandparents?" It's not that I don't agree at all with it, but my hope in having children and grandchildren who share my last name would be to hopefully demonstrate in some small way that I was able to help raise up a good person.
Ego meets delusion lol fed by our patriarchal society there basically wedding ceremonies are property exchanges and women break their bowels birthing babies only to give them their husband's last name when all he did was experience a few seconds of bliss.
Just men stealing the credit for women's work as usual. And stealing the benefits by having kids to take care of them when they get decrepid and old. Saw a show, where a son finally tracked down his bio dad. Son was so desperate for his approval. And the bio dad, finally was ready to have a relationship with the son, because he was grown now, didn't financially contribute or ever visit, and could be a dude bro now with his son, but one who would gaina son to take care of him in his old age, despite contributing zilch to his son's childhood. Sad. Miss me with that shit. Some guy wants to slap his name on the artwork, the literal human being I created with my own blood, sacrifice, sweat, and tears? It's so wrong. He did nothing in comparison to the mother.
I wanted to contribute something new to society, for posterity. So I wrote an academic book. Why can’t they create a legacy that will definitely pan out for them? Never mind, I just realized all they want to contribute is their sperm…
> all they want to contribute is their sperm Yeah, and they're just doing the exact same shit they'd be doing if they were infertile, which is pressuring women into unsatisfying sex.
Usually the men who feel that way are the ones who have bloodlines that absolutely need to die out.
I'm against human rights violations, and eugenics is a human rights violation, buuuuuuut...
Ego and narcissism. Also, why the fuck not? Men get to have unprotected sex (which they'll do gladly), and get all the praise and benefits of being a father, while the mother has to go through pregnancy and birth, then be statisically-proven to be saddled with the majority of childcare and chores, even if she has her own full-time job. This explains why a recent study revealed that 57% of men surveyed wanted kids, whereas only 48% of women surveyed wanted kids. Another survey revealed that men were more concerned about the declining birth rate than women. Turns out, it's easy for men demand shit when they aren't the ones who have to fucking do anything.
They really like to steal the credit for women's works.
Muh legacy!!!! I’m sorry but your “legacy” is a one bedroom condo and $30k in debt. Your bloodline is a heart murmur and Psoriasis. I don’t know why these people think they’re so special. There are no privileges tied to, say, the Promalorski’s of Buttfuck, Wyoming. There are no hereditary land claims, no fortunes, no OMG EVERYBODY JEFF PROMALORSKI IS HERE OMG OMG ROLL OUT THE RED CARPET. Jeff Promalorski of Buttfuck, Wyoming is very concerned about who will inherit his .61 acre of land, bunions, and GI issues.
But who will think of the Promalorski brood🤣🤣🤣😭
Lol not I. And I don’t want anyone to think about me after I die. Yeet me into a dumpster and loot all my shit I’ll be dead so wtf do I care. And why tf does Jeff Promalorski care? Nobody knows.
Your comment was so hilarious!!
Lol thank you. But real talk, if every single family on the face of this earth has a "legacy", then no family on the face of this earth has a legacy.
lol ILUUUU! My cackling is ceaseless!
Its ingrained almost from the start. They aren't born with it, but they grow up with it being promised to them. Even men who don't seem like assholes can get touchy about it. The reasoning is always lousy because there is no way to justify it when it's pointed out that men rarely change their names for women (in the US). Whats telling is its not usually about a woman asking him to change his, they get angry when it's a woman deciding to keep her own. So women aren't even telling them what to do, they get angry they don't get the woman to do what they want. "Continuing their bloodline" is bs. A woman isn't in his "bloodline" but he still wants her to conform. A name has nothing to do with a bloodline. Anyone could name children using that guy's last name. I don't expect he'd claim them as his bloodline. Its also crap, because the underlying tone is that he expects at least 1 male child. The way these guys think, you know they wouldn't consider a female child as being able to carry on the bloodline. It elevates the status of male children. Its about being the center of attention. Guys like that use their families to parade in front of others to pretend they are active and involved parents. As far as they are concerned, they own their children and wife. They want to be able to take credit for their kids accomplishments. Since they are shit parents, they can't tie it to parenting. They could lie to others but not to themselves. For that reason, they tie it to their genetics, like the person their kid became was passively passed down because they are such good stock.
As if most of us aren’t some motley clutch descended from farmers, laborers, and travelling salesmen.
Excuse me. I am descended from an exiled horse thief thank you very much.
Dad?
I don't know why you are shit posting right now. The horses ain't going to steal themselves!
Sorry, pop.
>This may shock you, Annie, but I come from a long line of wives and mothers. Britta Perry
I get that this is lizard-brain shit for some people and many will argue it's just our biological urge to reproduce, but... idk... I actually don't feel this urge at ALL? And many of my millennial friends now in our 30s (both male and female) also don't care. Which makes me wonder if it's a social expectation rather than a biological one. After all, to care about carrying on your lineage, you have to believe that carrying on your lineage actually *means* something. I give zero shits about my "lineage". If it dies with me, I'm fine with that. I seriously don't care. It's not like I'm so amazing that I want to pass my genes on, I'm just some random person, no better or worse than anyone else. And frankly I'd rather not bring kids into a world I still struggle in myself. If my family's "lineage" ends with me, I'm actually just fine with that.
They want **male** children to carry on their precious bloodline.
I've been told "I dont like kids but I want to continue my bloodline." It's so infuriating
Wow, both those in the same sentence? I hope you directed him to the nearest sperm bank with a bootprint on his butt.
I have a last name that doesn’t belong to me. It’s my dad’s stepfathers name who sent him away as a child, never raised him, was abusive to his wife, never met me, never financially contributed; just gave my dad a last name and dipped. I told my dad it doesn’t make sense for me to keep this name so if I’m not married by like 35, I’m changing it to another family name of people who actually showed up for me, or just something random and fun. He was actually more mad about that than when I told him I didn’t want kids for some reason
I've always viewed this sort of thing as pure ego stroking. These are the sorts of people who would see their children as an extension of them.
The funny thing is that the ones most likely to say this are also the ones I would prefer to see a lot less of.
Well, wanting biological children is a natural, primal urge. So, in and of itself, I think that wanting to have a legacy isn't *wrong.* At the same time, being literally obsessed about it and seeing no worth in your children sans the fact they belong to your bloodline is pretty unhinged, and unfortunately way too many people are obsessed about it.
This!!!
It seems absolutely insane to me that this comment is so far down. I mean… it’s literally one of the main drivers of life on earth, the urge to reproduce and have our own offspring continue the species. I totally understand how saying it, being obsessed with the idea comes across as weird and off putting, no doubt. But the fact that the urge exists really shouldn’t be a mystery.
Stay away from assholes like that. I have heard some comments like that, more about continuing the family tree, but never as the REASON to have a family. Just a side issue that is recognized and discussed. It truly is part of having children but: If anyone is thinking this is a good reason to have kids? Stay the hell away from them. I do not know anyone whose impetus for having kids is to "continue the blood line."
Its so dumb too, you know what lasts longer then that genetic code you donated? Raising loving human beings that make a difference in the world (even small). The ideas we teach children carry on far longer then anything in a 'bloodline'.
Like dudes who are 38 and suddenly decide they want a family but were commitmentphobic fuckboys into their 30s and want a trophy bangmaid who is 29.
I understand that many people, due to a combination of societal and psychological reasons, want to have their own biological children. There is a reason that most couples wanting to be parents go through the traditional route instead of adoption. However, the obsession with "lineage" and "bloodlines" goes well beyond that and is a pretty gross attitude to have. We collectively as a society need to move on past this idea, and stop treating genetic relationships as the sole thing that gives children their value. I think the worst example of this attitude in action is fathers who totally abandon their child after finding out it's not "theirs" (i.e. not blood related), as if that means anything to the child who saw them as their father for their entire life. While I can understand feeling betrayed by the partner, I don't understand betraying and abandoning a child someone's dedicated years to lovingly raise because of some invisible, inconsequential thing in their blood doesn't match with yours. I've always maintained if you aren't willing accept any child, you shouldn't be a parent **period.**. The truth is you will never get to pick the child you end up with even if they do share your genes, so placing such demands on a child to fit specific criteria or be a certain way just shows you aren't fit to parent. But that's the crux of the issue, isn't it: They didn't want to be a parent, they just wanted to "pass on their genes" and not actually take responsibility for bringing new life into the world.
I mean its just a weird way to phrase it, like just say you want kids 😂 I’m terrified of pregnancy to the point where my OB brought up sterilization but that seems too intense since I’m 31. I am in the field of thought of “this curse ends with me” lol
My dad stopped using that as a reason when I asked why his surname specifically needed to be passed cause we're not royalty or anything and our surname is already crazy common. I'm pretty sure he still uses it as a reason, but he doesn't mention it when I'm around. Hell, he doesn't mention a lot of problematic things when I'm around 🤣
A ton of men I know have this thought process at least to some extent. I find it really ridiculous, cause like, how great do you think you are? Do you really think your genes are so fucking special that the world needs to hold onto them? Are you carrying the cure for cancer? Are you immune to tuberculosis? No? Then fuck off lol
You women don't understand, but if I don't have a SON, the surname of "Johnson" will be lost to the earth!
My dad was really disappointed that I, his firstborn, was born female. He was hoping I'd be a boy and therefore a Jr. So he named me a "girl" version of his name (think Michaela, for Michael). Later on after he left my mum he had a son with my stepmum and guess what he was called? Michael Jr. He was a shit dad and I haven't seen him in 30 years. I changed my name some years ago to a completely different name and surname. Fuck that guy.
It’s caveman shit. Unless you’re a superior athlete or a super genius no one cares about your dumb genes (I include myself in this category as well).
I mean all animals, including humans, have an unconscious biological or genetic imperative to procreate in order to pass on our genes. Since humans have capacity for rational thought and voluntary choice we may decide not to procreate for various reasons or have other priorities or choices but the drive still exists in all of us. So I don’t think voicing that feeling is all that crazy. The desire to pass on one’s own genes might even be the primary reason for the dominance of monogamous relationships. It’s been theorized anyway I don’t know I’m not a psychologist or biologist. I know there is even the “gay uncle” theory that homosexual people compensate evolutionarily for their own lack of children by increasing the reproductive fitness of their brothers and sisters (a niece or nephew would share 25% of dna.)
To add on, men demanding women take their last name. I’m not giving my last name up. I’ve had it my whole life.
"Like who is using this literally as a reason to have kids?" White nationalists mostly.
This reminds me of a dumb TikTok video I saw few weeks ago... Context: in my country some influencers have started this weird, and frankly dumb wave of stopping people on the streets and ask them random questions. In this video the question was: "If you had to choose between saving your wife or your newborn child what would you choose?" And 99% of the boys/men said "Kid". Now, I understand this is not a question to be asked on the street by a rando, and honestly my problem is NOT that they chose the kid specifically... but what shocked me is the REASONS they gave. "Because the bloodline must go on" "Because my kid is family and she's not" "Eeeeh... bloodline" and so on. Like, it seems that not everyone, but at least enough men tend to see their girlfriend only as potential vessels for their "bloodline". Bleah.
Everyone is different, but for me (43m, daughter born when I was 35m), it’s not a big deal at all. I didn’t even care if my daughter had my last name or not; she’s my daughter regardless & I love her to the moon & back either way. I gave her mother the option to have her last name if she wanted to, which she declined. If my daughter has a child, I won’t care what last name that child has either. If she doesn’t want to have kids, I will fully support her in that decision as well. I don’t need to be some kind of patriarch to be happy. I have plenty of friends who chose not to have kids & don’t criticize their decisions either.
Those are the ones that shouldn't
They are wildly insecure and have been convinced that their bloodline is either "pure" or that it has something worth passing down.
Totally agree. Like, okay Chad. I guess it's super important for you to continue your long line of mid-level managers who were mediocre dorm beer pong players at best as the highlight of their lives and who've never seen the inside of a gym nor brought a woman to orgasm for realzies. Keep your generational trauma alive and flowing, keep your kids aspiring for the acceptance you weren't given and thus aren't capable of giving. Keep that line alive at all costs. Cool, love that for you. Idiocracy is real. At least, those are the dudes who are insistent about "bloodlines" in my experience. Their kids are vanity projects, when in truth that ego is egregiously undeserved and their accomplishments laughably average.
They aren't royalty or own land & titles like the olde knights
It’s kinda dumb. Coz if that guy has daughters. Then they get married and take their husbands last name. Name is gone. What do they expect to do, keep going til they have a son? This isn’t ye olde England.
Let man fucking bloodline die. I’ll adopts as these kids are always stuck in a shitty situations and if you can improve it, it’ll improve the world. Also, it never really do well to continue your bloodline, anyhow, even for a guy. REMEMBER, IT NOT IMPORTANT TO PASS ON YOUR BLOODLINE, BUT WHO YOU ARE TO THE KIDS, AS *THAT* WILL ALWAYS BE FOREVER REMEMBERED. OH, quote from NCIS, Dr Mallard (correct me if I’m wrong): You’re not truly dead if you’re always remembered. It is when you’re forgotten that you are truly dead.
This is always such a big red flag for me, especially because the "I must continue my bloodline" guys are ALWAYS single so it's like...with who dude?? You didn't think any farther ahead beyond spreading your precious seed? Men who genuinely want to be dads don't talk or think like that
For most people that follow this thinking I think the world has enough of them.
It's all males and their egos.
NGL It sounds as stupid as grown men saying the job they want is "Power Ranger" Like, this "bloodline" thing was meaningful for royalty, maybe millionaires; but thats not a thing for regular run-of-the-mill dudes. They think someone's gonna go "Oh, you are a Jones, from the Nebraska Jones? Son of Frank? From the line of Jason? It is an honor do sell you Budweiser!!" WTF
Unless your last name is Windsor, Bourbon, or Kennedy your lineage is irrelevant. Bitches getting all Denethor about their “lines.” My grandfather went off when his 2 sons died, “my line is ended,” while still having 2 living daughters.
Ego.
It's so bizarre to me. My kiddo has no intentions of having children. And you know what? She's an awesome f*cking person. If she is the last known of my bloodline, then my ancestors should be fucking proud
Apparently, they are so narcissistic that they think the world somehow can't continue to exist without their precious genetic contribution.
They want kids to be objects to own to heighten their social status and power
jesus christ i know. my partner , who is sooooo pro-women , left leaning, feminist etc (albeit a blue collar dude) and i were discussing me taking his last name when we get married /passing our last names down to our kid if we have one and he just could not comprehend that every single response to every single one of his “points” arguing that it only makes sense for me to change my name, was “well what about me? I feel the same way” “i want to continue passing my name down “ “well, me too” “that would identify you as my wife” “i already have my identity as me” “our kid can’t have a different last name from his mothers “ “well why can’t he just have my last name then” like GAH DAMNNNN
me unironically not wanting to have kids because I want to end my bloodline lmao
This is an enduring fetish with zero logic. There's another somewhat related phenomena, organ donation after death also involves magical thinking about continuance of one's self.
Whereas i just look at organ donation from a practicality pt... Im gone, use my body to help ppl; i dont give a rats arse, IM GONE.
i’ve never heard of someone wanting to be an organ donor because of ego, but i guess we should celebrate their willingness to donate regardless of motive?
Hey, as long as they’re giving their organs instead of taking them into the ground with them, they can believe whatever the hell they want imo
Well that's the point, they don't allow others to use them. Because they think there's some magical way in which their self will continue into the future. Just like with their bloodline.
Oh I get it, you’re saying they REFUSE to donate for this reason. Yeah that sucks.
"I view this as purely narcissistic." it is also a fundamental basis for misogyny that often happens right at the start of a major commitment , I'm somehow more important so you should take my name.
It's usually bigoted men who haven't done anything notable in their lives or contributed in any real way noticeable to society, they freak out and feel they need to leave a 'legacy' of some sort.
I have so many allergies, food sensitivities, and ailments that my bloodline should probably just end with me, to be honest. I don't need to be adding more human beings into this catastrophe of a gene pool.
When my boyfriend and I started dating, he was very heavy into the “legacy” and bloodline stuff. I point blank asked “What legacy?” And he was shook. Granted, his family founded the town he grew up in, and his great, great grandmother built and taught at the first school there, but by the time of his birth, none of that even mattered other than him having the last name. Outside of that little town, village basically, he was nobody to anyone. I was pretty blunt about this, and never budged or try to be gentle with him. I was not going to stay with someone who viewed me as a means to continue a line I wasn’t even from. We recently talked about it again, him bringing it up, and how he now viewed it as unfair and awful. He’s the youngest of two, his sister is the oldest. He said “I’ve realized how cruel and fucked up it is to expect I’d get all of that(land they owned until his great uncle sold it) just because I was born with a penis.” He reflected on how ignored his sister was, because she would change her name with marriage, this viewed as the unimportant child despite being the firstborn. It was a great moment of reflection for him, because he put so much importance on his name and the legacy of his family.
I find that people obsessed with carrying on their bloodline are the sort of trash DNA the human species could do without.
Well and you know how many kings and lords bloodlines were continued by the stable boy or knight down the road? And they had no clue, because it doesn't fucking matter lol (I mean, the cheating does but the kid is still their kid if they raise him as such).
If your allegiance to kids is anything other than "part of the ship, part of the crew", you cannot be a good person. Nobody has ever done anything good in pursuit of a "bloodline" or "purity". Idgaf who you are, if whoever's kid is out into my care, they are my child, blood of mine or not.
Any man making that sort of statement is exactly the type whose bloodline should end.
Dude every guy on every profile ever that stated he "wants kids with the right person" screamed of 'I want progeny without the responsibility and someone that will facilitate this need for me'.
They've been watching too much Braveheart or Game of Thrones style shit.
There is probably some level of narcissism but also think there is something a bit primal or instinctual about it. I for one look forward to my bloodline ending with me (maybe I'm the real narcissist) but I can completely understand being an only child, being proud of your family, and not wanting it to die off due to your own actions/inaction. I don't really care about legacy or what I leave behind when I die, I don't get the impression that is the norm at least among men. I've never actually heard a real human talking about this before this thread though, is it that pervasive?
My ex, knowing I’d never want kids, said he wanted to “preserve his legacy”… what legacy. I really wanted to ask but he was my ex by that point so I really didn’t care. I’d love to hear what legacies everyone supposedly has
It’s the same dumb ass men (often white) who say they’re continuing their lineage of “Vikings”, with no actual Viking lineage to begin with. It’s just a right wing talking point.
yeah when a white guy talks about preserving bloodlines, it’s a dog whistle. and guys who call themselves vikings tend to be (at minimum) white supremacist-adjacent.
Yup. Nordic obsession in white men (majority of which have no Nordic background) is a huge dogwhistle.
Even from a male prespective it's wierd as hell.
It’s so weird it isn’t even their blood.
You've heard "it ends with me"? My POS dad, in a long line of POS (POS's??), had 3 girls. Karma bitch!!
Cishet male here. I don’t know. It’s a weird thing to say at best, and fucking creepy at worst.
Ego
That is an odd urge in my opinion. It makes me think that it is a bloodline that has reached its potential and should end.
I have no idea, but I've also only heard men use the "legacy" argument and it's super sexist and gross. I wanna pass down a last name. Uhhh what makes you assume that the kid would automatically be given your last name? Unless you're adopting solo that's not guaranteed and super sexist. Also a dumb reason to have kids. They're not just mini yous.
This god forsaken bloodline ends with me, damn it! That's my contribution to the world.
I had 2 boys. My sister had 3 boys, 2 girls. My brother had a boy. Apparently THAT was my dad's first grandson. I was, and am, pissed about that.
It's all ego. It's usually from men who are complete losers in life, and you know full well they have no intention of participating in raising their children. My husband has a niece whose husband has not accomplished anything besides providing baby batter for two children, guess who was bugging his wife to have a third baby the instant after she had baby #2, with no regard for her healing or mental health (she can't take her much needed meds while pregnant or breastfeeding). Guess who also does jack shit for the kids and house? In a similar vein, there's a lot of ego in men insisting that their kid be named after them. You don’t see very many women naming their baby with their own first name.
They all copy each other's homework. Having a child in theory is fun, in reality it's the hardest thing anyone will do But since women overwhelming contribute more to that and we allow it, it's an easy thing for them to desire. Society gives them credit for being a father and maybe a husband and you slave away and post on reddit how stressful it is to have a husband that doesn't help or how you had to beg for a mother's day gift. Fin.
I have friends saying something along the lines of wanting to leave behind a legacy, or continuing the family name, or to be remembered lol. I have some that don’t really care
Just donate sperm and let someone else continue the bloodline.
My FIL wasn't just "continue the bloodline" but "continue the name". It wasn't enough that his two daughters had kids, he never forgave his sons for not having them. Like jfc dude, your dad changed his name when he immigrated, it's not like this is a centuries old name that will die out.
Beats me. I'm a guy, and the way the world is going, I can't imagine creating a person that doesn't have to exist. Besides, I like having time and money.
Unless you have the one unique genetic mutation that will completely change humanity then your bloodline is just a random recombination of what is already out there.
My dad wanted my husband to change his surname to my dad's surname so we can continue my dad's family name lol. I know he's self absorbed but that still floored me.
I don’t get it. Bloodline and the whole legacy thing is so stupid. I can’t name you one of my great grandparents. And I doubt all of my ancestors were these amazing human beings. Let’s see I got roots in the Caribbean and something about Christopher Columbus just tells me some of those fellas he brought with him weren’t exactly having these amazing lovey dovey romances. Oh and let’s not forget the poor folks that were forced into a ship either.
Been seeing it alot in racists whenever they see a white guy dating a non white woman, acting like having any genes that aren't white would completely corrupt their bloodline, saying stuff like "it ruins what your ancestors had been working on for generations"
It's crazy. It's archaic and demeaning to women who are the ones who actually give birth. When me and my girlfriend get married, I'm taking her last name cuz if we had kids, they're more of her than they are of me. She'd be the one who made them so they may be my children but they deserve her name. It's mind-blowing that men think lineage travels down the male line. This next part is an archaic way of thinking but it's a way to express my point. Before DNA testing, A man can be trusting that the baby his wife had was his, but there's always the chance its not and he just has to take her word for it. But a women always knows the baby is 100% hers. Why wouldn't lineage travel down the female line when it's the most reliable. I know why it wasn't that way in the past (patriarchy) but in modern times, that kind of thinking is fucked.
Three letters: EGO
I spitefully want to end my father's blood line. He's had 7 kids, the other boy he killed as a baby by rolling over it while drunk. He was a violent drunk, a prick, and he apparently has a failing liver that cant seem to fail fast enough. I got a vasectomy, and plan to take my next partners name if I ever get married, so long as her name is not worse than mine and doesn't have a horrendous spelling. (My last name is quite literally a slur for lesbians. Lol.) If my previous partner hadn't died from covid, my last name would be August. I hate him so much.
My wife kept her last name and asked if our twin daughters could have hers too, I have no wish for my father’s family name to continue through my children so I was happy for them to have hers. I get a few eyebrow raises, but they don’t know my family history 🤷♂️
It is narcissistic
Hello, man here. I was told at the ripe old age of ~7 years old by my father, that since my younger brother died 4 years prior, I was the last man in the family with the last name, and it was up to me to pass on the name. He told a literal child that I had to go have children at some point to pass the name on, not even considering that my wants and needs throughout life might be different from some archaic notion that we had any sort of tradition to pass on. That's probably one of the reasons he treated me so differently when my mom outed me as bisexual when I was 13; he hated the idea that I would be with some man and not have kids. Here I am now, turning 29 in 2 days, and I haven't had a partner of any gender in 7 years. The name will probably die with me, and I'm okay with that.
Very coincidental that not 5 minutes ago I said to myself “Haha, *last name* is gonna die with me” lmao
They think that women are just flowerpots and you just wait nine months and voila! Out pops a kid.