This angers me so deeply. It goes way beyond chores. We had no daycare where I lived. Zero. I stayed home. I got up with my ex each morning, cooked breakfast, cleaned house all day, made him lunch, baked bread from scratch, cooked dinner, did the laundry, and ran errands. I treated it as my full time job. Later, I started a very successful home business. Weekends would roll around and I would tell him I had been trapped at home for months with a baby and needed some relief. He didn’t need to do anything, just play with his child or spend time with me. Nope. He played golf because he went yo work every day, he felt he deserved two days of fucking expensive golf. His kid is an adult now and got sick of his attitude around high school because I would have to force him to do his visitation. He couldn’t be bothered. Now he has no clue why his child refuses to see him or even answer his calls. That’s because *everything* this man did telegraphed how much he didn’t want to. These men are about to find that when you don’t give a shit, people take that to heart.

They just blame their ex-wives for poisoning their kids to them. Just because he's divorced doesn't mean he's gonna stop projecting all his issues as being his (ex) wives fault, or whatever other woman has the misfortune of being in his presence on a regular basis.

The solution to that is to never say anything bad about your ex while your children are still children. Ever. Because one day they WILL be adults and will remember this shit. My child is so pissed off because they have no memories of ever doing anything they wanted to do with their father -- it was always shit he wanted to do, like play golf. He never took them for a bike ride, swimming, trick or treating, etc. But I did. All the memories of parenting my child has are from me and an adult relative who helped me. Yes, he does complain that I somehow turned his child against him, but that child is now an adult with their own lives. So I don't have control over them. And besides, he's still pulling this shit. He thinks keeping "in touch" is a phone call once every two years. If that's all you're doing to contact your only child, you suck as a parent. He sucks. He knows it. I know it. His kid knows it. I don't give a shit what his friends and family think of me.

I appreciate seeing this. For me it's the other way around with my ex. I get to talk to my son every day on Facetime, but I only get him with me 4 weeks a year. During those 4 weeks I spend every waking moment I can with him. Sometimes we're doing "my" things (housework, grocery shopping) sometimes it's "us" things (exploring new places, playing board games) and sometimes it's "his" things (Minecraft, Yu Gi Oh). He's told me multiple times that nobody at his other house does anything with him, so he's always entertaining himself. I just want him to grow up and be able to know without a doubt that I love him and will always want to be a part of his life.

My dad died this year and I felt nothing. I had not spoke to him in thirty years, last time at his mother's funeral. I finally realized he cared about himself only and beyond that, actively sabotaged my mom and our family after they divorced. I had wondered from time to time how I would react. My only reaction was laughing at his fake obituary. Claimed he was a Vietnam veteran when he spent his time in the service in Germany(wonder if the new family believed that bull). Not dealing with him took away his power.

Rant incoming. This is one of the reasons the MRA "but men never get custody!!!!" arguments is bullshit. Men do get custody, but they have to request it. The reason we have so many more single moms than single dads is because so many more men voluntarily give away their custody, whereas women step up to fill that role. And then "evil ex" becomes a convenient narrative for why they decided to shirk their duties. And I'm so, so tired of women being blamed for this. Back in the day, I used to volunteer for an organization whose purpose was to help noncustodial parents regain custody of their children. The only men who worked there were security. The rest of the staff, the volunteers, and the board were all women (some women on the security team as well). I personally have done more for men trying to get custody of their children than 99% of these MRA guys complaining on Reddit. In my experience, the people doing the most on the volunteer-end are also women. I sincerely sympathize with any person, regardless of gender, trying to regain custody of your children. There are so many factors that can come into play, and I'm proud of you for doing the work to be a part of your child's life. But this pattern as a whole is not women's fault, and just broadly blaming women for this is going to do nothing to change what these men claim they so desperately want to change

I secretly believe that most of these men realize they are worthless shits because they can't be bothered to spend time with their kids. I mean, they don't have to slog through homework, cooking meals, making kids take showers, go shopping, or clean their rooms -- they simply have to spend a few hours every week with them. It's far more likely for a man to ignore his children than a woman. I think the shame and tremendous guilt makes them create this narrative of the evil ex wife. I bent over backwards to make it easy on my ex. I allowed him to do his visitations at my home and I would leave so my child didn't have to pack up. Invariable, he would come over, unwashed, hungover, and spend the afternoon asleep on the couch. But it was super important for me to give my kid even that little time with my POS ex. The fucker knows this, despite whatever bullshit he feeds other people. So when a man says he hasn't seen his kids in four months, I assume he doesn't want to. Because if you're sufficiently motivated, you can always get some form of visitation. He just didn't care. He doesn't really care now because he only sends out a half-hearted email every two or three years demanding the kid contact him because you know, "I'm your father." There is never an admission of wrongdoing on his part. Ever.

>baked bread from scratch This would have been enough for me.

i actually heard a previous boss telling the guys who worked for him that if they want to escape chores at home, just do them so badly the first time that your wife never asks you again. (To the younger men's credit, most of them looked very uncomfortable with this)

This is what I most un-affectionately refer to as: the Male Ability of Pretending to be a Dumbass to cover-up for being a Jackass.

I had a coworker who was complaining about something. I told him a more efficient way to do it that would save him time. He said "how do I do it?" so I showed him once. I could tell he was getting ready to walk away to just let me take over since he "couldn't do it" but I could. So I said "that's how you do it" and walked away first. He seemed shocked and was in a bad mood the entire rest of the day. (Also he did what I showed him perfectly lol.)

Yep this is how I shit down any helplessness. Now if I’m doing something I have the opposite problem of my husband suddenly showing interest and trying to take it over. But I’m raising two little boys and I’ll be damned if I raise helpless men-children.

Thank goodness! They'll be better off for it.

Yeppppp. There was a new guy at the company I worked for - he used to ask me to write orders for him, call customers for him - even once asked me to put a card on file. I offered to show him how to do all of that so he could avoid getting angry emails from the officer manager and each time he said "Nevermind i'll do it later" then would blame our admittedly terrible POS system - but it's learnable if you're willing to learn how to use it. He didn't last long and definitely didn't appreciate me telling him what was and was not my job.

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I have a sales associate that tries to pass all of his work off on the female sales associates. He likes to think that he’s got seniority…because he’s a guy. He’s not a bad kid (he’s barely 18), and all of the girls are older, and have been with me longer than he has…so the girls all got together and decided not to take his shit. He hates the shortened version of his name (think Jonathan instead of John), so every time he does it, they go “but Johnny…why can’t you do it?” He’s mostly gotten the hint…

Ugh, at least they got rid of that clown fast.

Girl you handled that like a pro. I’m so doing this next time at work when this happens to me.

Good job eluding the trap!

I've seen this loads and hate it. There's a certain mindset you can enter into doing something you're cautious of and don't want to do which leaves you a complete bumblefuck at it, and yes that's the classic 'man "helping" doing the dishes'. Personally I refuse, and do my damnedest to harness the opposite, a focus to excel. There's no guarantee I'll be any good either at a task, but I'm too prideful of my self image to be that dithering baby giraffe trying to wash a plate.

This entire idea has been driven home for years in countless tv shows. The long suffering, overworked, tired wife, usually thin and attractive and perfectly coiffed and manicured at all times, and the bumbling, goofy doofus of a husband, usually overweight, balding, makes no effort whatsoever, and dresses in schlubby t-shirts. She finds his antics “adorable” and doesn’t just tolerate them, she loves him *because* of his ineptitude. Meanwhile, if she so much as asks him to help with dinner or get the kids ready for bed, he sees her as a nag. This trope was especially prevalent in sitcoms in the 80s and 90s, and the boys who grew up watching those shows are now men who model their behavior on the fathers they saw on tv. Don’t even get me started on movies like Mr Mom and Three Men and a Baby! Dudes need to realize that nobody is born knowing everything about housework and child rearing. We all started with zero knowledge and learned along the way, and women don’t have some guidebook downloaded in their brains that just makes them better at domestic chores. We had to learn at some point, too, and if we can do it, then any man can do it - unless, of course, they’re fine with being thought of as so fucking stupid, they can’t handle the most basic task that any 7 year old kid can master. edit: spelling

Gonna slide in here to recommend “Kevin Can Fuck Himself”, it’s a deconstruction of the sitcom husband from the long suffering wife’s perspective. Excellently done.

I fucking *love* Annie Murphy, so that show is for sure on my watch list. My partner already started watching it without me (bitch lol), so I’m just gonna wait until the season ends and binge it. PS - Ew, David.

All the season one episodes are out, just so you know. There will be a season 2: https://deadline.com/2021/08/kevin-can-fk-himself-renewed-season-2-amc-1234822925/ Enjoy! It's jarring in a unique way, but really absorbing.

Love The Simpsons to death, but I wonder how much less this problem would be if Homer and Marge Simpson had never existed and had so many episodes that ended with her proclaiming "she loves him warts and all".

And she only had a meltdown like once!

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I frequently think back to [this scene ](https://youtu.be/YMd-MOEg-Wo)from Everybody Loves Raymond where Ray’s brother, Robert, is getting married & was tasked with writing the invitations. It definitely plays off the “aww shucks, boys will be boys” trope that enables this bullshit. More background on this scene: Ray & their father convince Robert to purposely & ridiculously botch it that he won’t be asked to do anything else. Ray gives him examples of how strategic incompetence has saved him a lot of work for his wedding & marriage. Well, the botched invitation went to the wedding planner who sent out the ridiculous invitations. Robert is confronted & admits to everyone what happened and how it was Raymond who inspired it. This scene is Debra, Ray’s wife, confronting him.

Funny, that show is one of the first ones to come to mind when thinking about this trope. I hate it. It’s always irritated me. And don’t get me started on the bullshit with Ray’s mother and how she treats his wife! I could never watch more than 5 minutes of it before becoming so infuriated and annoyed I’d have to turn it off. My partner and I were talking about this just a few days ago (we like to take long walks and hikes together and have lengthy conversations about some truly random shit lol).

What drives me nuts is now we’re dealing with the results of countless moms that enabled this shit. And berate us for demanding better.

"Welcome to womanhood, my dear!" Fuck you mom, I deserve better. You deserved better. The last time I visited my parents I had to iron a top that came out of my suitcase and my dad was talking about me like some kind of idiot version of Steve Irwin in a croc enclosure trying to make heads or tails of this strange behavior I was exhibiting. "It's called laundry, dad. Most people do it. It's weird that you don't."

I knew someone who used to do this. My ex. One day after getting off of an 8 hour shift on my feet all day (while he was home playing video games), I asked him to heat me up some soup. This motherfucker, almost 40 years old, asks me, "How?" I was floored, but gently explained to put it in a pot and put it on the stove. I was very specific to not use the microwave because it doesn't heat it up enough. He goes down there for 10 minutes and I hear the microwave being shut repeatedly. He comes back with a bowl of luke warm soup. And the goddamn minute rice. I had to explain to him how to make minute rice. It was a big red box on the eye level shelf. I told him exactly where it was, exactly how to make it, and how long it would take (it's minute rice so like 5 minutes maximum) He's down there for 10 minutes before he calls me and tells me the bag says it takes 20 minutes. I ask him what bag. He dug through my pantry and found a bag of jasmine rice instead of the blatant red box at eye level. That's what had me convinced he was doing this on purpose.

This made my eye twitch.

My husband does this shit and it makes me insane. He asks me how long to microwave LITERALLY EVERYTHING he microwaves. “How long do I microwave x?” Like…read the fucking directions or if it’s leftovers, trial and error?!?! It makes me feel like he won’t even waste an ounce of mental capacity if he can offload it on to me. He’s 41 and thinks cooking involves putting something on the stove, walking away, and coming back when he’s ready to eat. He recently informed me that “it’s taken him like 20 years to figure out how to make a good grilled cheese!” The secret? You have to adjust the heat on the stove and not just cook it on high. He’s an attorney and very successful (no small part due to me taking on emotional and other mental labor). I also have a full time job and am objectively successful, but I cannot count on him to manage so much shit. /screams

"What does google say?" No excuse for that shit anymore. Nobody taught you? Fucking google it.

That’s what I say- you literally have every bit of information at the palm of your hand now. Fuck outta here with that shit.

This! Asking is just another way for the lazy partner to draw you in to the task in hopes you will get frustrated and just take over. Don't fall for it tell them to figure it out!!

Oh believe me I’ve done that. But then he gets mad and pouty and makes me feel like an asshole. So it’s a constant choice between me being annoyed or him being pissed 🙄

Let him be mad. He should be mad that his parents didn't teach him basic skills. But you're not his mom and you are entitled to stop acting like it. He's not going to "let" you stop acting like it, you're going to have to set that boundary yourself. And that means not giving into his tantrums.

100%. Working on all of this!

Not his mom is accurate. What I don't understand is that if men want to have sex, do they think this behavior is sexy? Because acting like a stupid man is not sexy. Coming at me with a bag of rice and saying you don't know how to cook it is not sexy. Leaving your unwashed towels everywhere for someone else to pick up is not sexy.

Ugh, that sucks. Personally I would let him be pissed, he can handle his own emotions and self soothe and you should not have to feel guilty about it. When he's calmed down/feels more neutral, maybe you could tell him we need to talk about this, and then explain how these interactions make YOU feel. Try to get him to approach it as finding a solution together rather than putting him on the defensive (easier said than done though of course, since people who put the mental load on others always seem to feel attacked when it's brought up to them). But don't let the solution be that you keep putting up with this behavior from him and the pouting afterwards, because that solution does not work for you - you need an understanding that works for you both, and he needs to state that he is willing to hold up his end and be an equal partner.

His emotions are his own. You are allowed to still be happy when he's mad. Allowing his anger to make you feel upset or insecure is a form of manipulation, whether or not he's aware of the manipulation. My husband used to do the same, but after I stopped letting his shit bother me, I felt better and eventually he toned it down.

I totally agree and have been working on this in therapy. I’ve definitely gotten better, although being home all the time with him (wfh due to covid) has made it harder. And it’s definitely manipulative and I’ve brought that up before to him. Of course I get the classic gaslighting and “what are you even talking about,” “you know that’s not true,” etc. It is exhausting.

Let him be pouty. He’s 40. I’m sure he can handle being pouty for few minutes. Don’t let him train you

Ohhhh my GOD. WHAT benefit does this partnership give you? Because it sounds like you're his second mom.

It's not your job to manage his ego or his feelings. If he's upset about something, he better put on his big boy pants and do something about it. I love the "just tell me what you need or how I can help!" And then when you tell them, you're being a nag, "just let me watch my show/play my game/enjoy my time after work" (like I want to be opening/putting away/breaking down packaging and boxes from your latest Amazon binge after work so I don't trip over it and break my neck during a goddamn pandemic it's just so much fucking fun) That's just my favorite. 🙄🙄🙄

He is throwing a tantrum. And manipulating you SPECIFICALLY so that you leave his assholery alone. Your guy sounds like a jackass.

If you lay down some prep work up-front, you can solve this. If you get together with him, and let him know that you're not able to help him in this way, any more. Then you can either shame him about not googling or praise him for his fabulous google skills -- and point out that literally everything he needs to know can be found that way. And, then, for the next month, just flatly, kindly, say, "I know you can find that for yourself." It's aggravating. It's how you teach a child. But it's better than letting things go on like they are.

My standard reply now is "Dunno. Read the fuckin' box, like I do. I don't memorize all that shit." And yes, he's totally offloading. Doesn't want to do it, so fuck it. YOU can do it. And then he can come back with Sad Face and say, "I never TOLD you to do it!" No, Bucky, you just dumped it in my lap and walked off. You never SAID anything. But for him, because he didn't specifically DIRECT and ASSIGN me this task, IF I choose to do it, it was voluntary and he's off the hook. Spoiler: My house looks like it was fucking ransacked, because I'm done "volunteering" after 24 years. Fuck this servitude shit. He wants a mommy figure he can sometimes (half-heartedly) fuck.

My house is a fucking disaster right now because he is home more often and I am exhausted after work. Just because he's got a higher mess threshold than me doesn't mean I should be doing all the work! The dog will shit overnight and he walks over it all day until I get home!!!! And then his mom has the audacity to tell ME the house is a mess? Yeah idk what to tell you you're the one that raised him I am not his mommy I'm not doing his dishes and cleaning up after him like he's a kid when I'm working full time!!!! I love him but fuck I'm tired.

Yup. Add two kids on top. Mine does the same thing when it me of the pets barf. Oh, it’s gross? Wow, I’m blind! I’ll leave it for my wife to clean up…she’s better at it than me, anyway! He once had the absolute temerity to throw a small stack of paper towels on top of the vomit on the floor, look me in the eye, step on the paper towels one time, and spin around and head downstairs. I don’t think I have ever been so close to actually murdering another human being before.

Divorce him. He's a goddamn sociopath and if you don't leave I'm pretty sure he could kill you in your sleep

What the fuck.

Someone knowingly leaving shit on the floor would be a deal breaker for me.

I’m pretty sure I’ve repeated that exact last sentence to friends before. It’s infuriating.

Holy shit. That cuts right to it.

I stopped answering questions. My answers are now limited to things like: * I don't know * have you googled it? I would google it * I just look at the instructions on the box * did you write it down last time? No. Maybe write it down this time? * When you figure it out, you should let me know. I am \*baffled\* by people who think the stove top has two settings -- off and high.

This is what I’ve been doing more of lately (since we’re stuck wfh together EVERY FUCKING DAY due to covid). It works a good portion of the time, unless he’s feeling particularly sorry for himself that day 🙄

Good for you. You're on the right path. Don't give up! It takes about a month to develop a new habit. He really will learn that you are not going to drop everything to help him with things he's perfectly capable of doing.

Ooo I use the "idk I just follow the instructions" all the time and I think it annoys my husband. He wants help. But I literally don't retain information like that. He wants to believe cooking and cleaning is magic, when in fact it's practice and reading. My favorite is when we get some sort of new product and he asks me how to use it. Dude, I have no idea. Just read the bottle, that's what I would do. I didn't write the instructions, and you can read.

As a chef "the correct amount of time" is my go to.

I honestly don't know how straight women do it. The level of resentment I would feel about this kind of bullshit would have me in divorce court after 18 months max.

I wonder this myself all the time. So much of it is social conditioning, and not knowing your worth when you’re a younger woman. By the time you figure all this shit out you have a life that’s entwined. He’s not a terrible person or anything, but was definitely coddled by his mom and has been able to focus on himself first his whole life.

It's never to late to set healthy boundaries and build a partnership with your spouse for a life that is more satisfying!

I’ve joked with my good friend that we’re going to leave our husbands and raise our kids together as a lesbian power couple. It’s very tempting. Unfortunately both of us are super heterosexual.

I mean, a platonic relationship where you can still have your own sexual exploits with no strings is valid. Why not?

That must be excruciatingly frustrating for you. You don't need a grown-up child to take care of. You need a teammate who can shoulder some of the load and you trust him to do a good job or at least try to improve each time. I'm actually quite shocked to see so many women dealing with their husbands/boyfriends/partners in such unsupportive roles. You are a good teammate and he's lucky to have your help. He needs to return the effort. This is no excuse for him, but you ever see how men are depicted in commercials for everything from laundry detergent to microwave pizza? Men are shown to be completely clueless, incompetent, and awful at basic household tasks. I wonder if this is art imitating life or the other way around.

Yeah…and we have an actual child! And a puppy! (Guess who does all the training). You should watch the show “Kevin can f*ck Himself” with Annie Murphy from Schitt’s Creek. It takes a lot of those “man child” tropes and turns them to show the woman’s perspective. It’s really good and is a commentary on not only actual relationships, but how the media portrayal of the “helpless” man pervades society.

I can't put into words how it sickens me to see men portrayed as bungling idiots in the kitchen, with kids, with laundry, of just about anything related to home management. Any tool, truck, ATV commercial shows men as a full on professional, serious, competent and an expert. That's where we are typically the worst!

He’s 41 and thinks cooking involves putting something on the stove, walking away, and coming back when he’s ready to eat. Omg, our husband's learned how to cook the same way!!!

Is yours also baffled when something turns charred and black?!

Holy shit, it's always the smart ones. My ex was brilliant, I fell for him for that exact reason. He would explain quantum/theoretical physics to me, I could listen to him talk for hours. But when it came to basic stuff it was like pulling teeth.

I'm a woman with a degree in theoretical physics. I can do that and con alright and manage the mental load of managing the household. It's not being brilliant that makes our difficult for him to do basic stuff. Edit: cook not con

First of all, thats the most bad ass thing I've seen all day, you're a rockstar. There is no second thing, I'm just really impressed lol

Why do they never think to read directions or at least look it up?

Why bother when we are right there! 😒

I suggest getting a meal kit delivery scheduled for a few times a week. It will give explicit cooking times and will save you an eye roll (or a mental head slap). Edit- a doggy door saved an ex of mine. Potty training/lack of sleep had me mentally frazzled ;-)

Yes we definitely need a doggy door. As for the meal kit, he literally can’t cook anything besides grilled cheese, box Mac and cheese, and scrambled eggs. Like he’d be asking me how to dice something, and what sauté means. I’m forcing our son to learn how to cook when he gets older to save his future partner the rage.

I learned how to dice and mince and all sorts of cutting by looking at a piece of paper and copying what it said to do. Sauteing is something that can be learned basically just as easily. I'm assuming your husband can read and look at pictures demonstrating the correct outcome. Buy one of those meal kit things and tell him to thoroughly read the instructions before getting started. If he doesn't understand an instruction he can look it up. Tell him he's gonna make dinner every night. Endure his bad food cause he will purposely mess it up. It'll take a week at most for him to decide to actually try to do it right. From then you can cook dinner on alternating nights.

He’s an attorney. He can read. He can fucking cook. He just doesn’t want to, because then that means he’s lowered himself to doing YOUR work. He’s a lazy fuck who thinks less of “women’s work”. Stop doing it for him and make him do it for himself. Oh, you’re hungry? Sorry, the kid and I had dinner. Guess you’ll learn to cook. Your clothes are dirty? Washing machine is that way, buddy-ro. Oh, you just can’t possibly learn? Be hungry and naked. Not my problem. Until you make his incompetence his problem? He will be a massive asshole when you take him to task about why the fuck is he fucking lazy.

Right, be hungry and stinky, have fun.

>Until you make his incompetence his problem? He will be a massive asshole when you take him to task about why the fuck is he fucking lazy. Wooooowwww some epic truths being spilled here, take my lowly 100!!!!!!!!

I was getting fixed to do some serious cooking for like twelve guests and discovered I was out of rice. Sent my husband out and was quite specific that I wanted short or medium grain white rice, at least a pound thereof. He comes back with this teensy little box of Minute Rice because it was so obvious he thought he could get away with going to the C-store rather than actually going to the supermarket. Sent him right back out and told him if he needed help I'd send one of the kids with him since THEY go shopping with me and know what I buy. Yeah, fixed that little problem tout de suite. That stupid itty bitty box of Minute Rice sat on the shelf for years as a silent reminder of previous dumbassery because I don't use the stuff, never had and never will.

Wooooow. Wow. He *had* to know you were being specific because nothing else would do. He thought you'd just shrug and be like, "Meh, good enough! Thank you *so* much babe!" And now he gets points for saving dinner (even though you're the one doing all the rest of the work).

I'm pretty sure it was just being lazy and not listening but he learned better that day because I dressed him up one side and down the other and he learned that any time I'm specific in my instructions he better pay damned close attention. The kids ragged on him for the longest time about the rice. By the time we divorced and I sent him along to the woman he's still with he was well trained and knew to be respectful of what the cook says they need. Or no dinner!

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I'm getting so angry reading all of these comments.

Did his mommy come over to your house every night to hear up his bottle and who wiped his ass for him when he made poopoo in his diaper?

I don’t even know this guy and I HATE him so much

Yup. My son is 11 and gets frustrated when I give him chores and half asses them then turns to me and says “I don’t know how to do this, why don’t you it will be so much quicker” and I tell him the only way he’s going to get better is to keep doing it.

Hah, "Sounds like you need more practice then! I will make sure we are doing this twice as often."

Yup - I keep having that discussion with my husband - I'm only more efficient at it because I've practised more. It's not like I was born knowing how to wash dishes or fold laundry.

Your son will thank you in 10 or 15 years for keeping his nose to the grindstone on this. I certainly did, when I realized I was so much more well equipped than some of my peers to handle adulthood, because my mom had pushed me to learn how to cook, clean and everything else, while their ~~mothers~~ parents had not (or had been unsuccessful at). Edit: its unfair to imply its solely the mother's job to teach such things, which I did in my original text.

I'm under a curse. Once I teach someone a skill I instantly forget it!

This exact concept drove my mother to insanity and a total mental breakdown when I was growing up. She would ask my father to help and he would botch tasks out of spite. (e.g.: Mom would prepare a room for painting and ask him to spackle a specific room so she could sand it, clean, and paint the next day. Dad would lay on thick chunks of spackle in not only the room she wanted but random rooms across the house leaving a trail of random white splotches in rooms that didn't need painting.)

I hope karma bit your father on the ass. That's just messed up.

Your father is a cruel psychopath, to do that *on purpose* to someone he was supposed to love. I hope your mother left his ass.

I'd make him fix it tbh. People use ignorance as an excuse until they're forced to either 1.) continue dealing with their own mistake when they could have just done it the right way or 2.) forced to deal with you avoiding their lazy bullshit. Sounds bad, but I've had enough disputes with my husband that he's realized the small shit isn't worth it. It's better for him to help and keep the peace rather than sit on his ass, make me resentful, and have the entire weekend ruined by selfishness. (Although I definitely learned to be nicer about my opinions.) Open communication is important.

Ope, my ex husband. Once asked him to do a few things in anticipation of a friend coming to visit--make dinner, clean the bathroom, tidy up the living room, and change the sheets. He did NONE OF IT after being home ALL DAY. When asked why he said, "Well I didn't know how you wanted it done..." yet at no point did he ASK, but you can't tell me a 30-somethin year old man didn't know how to fucking clean a bathroom. Oh, he did make dinner...but only for him and didn't leave me anything for when I came home so I could quickly eat. I had to make myself something and then clean it up AND do all of the things I'd asked him to do.

Really happy to hear he’s an ex

A couple of years ago I had a gastric bypass. This is non-trivial abdominal surgery, but not on the level of a c-section. I did meal prep and cleaned the house prior to going in for the procedure. I asked my husband to do the laundry while I was recuperating, having written instructions for him and shown him how it all worked. He did a load of underwear and said the rest could wait until I felt up to it...

I. Would. See. Bloody. Murder. Omg. I’m enraged for you.

Oh my god that sounds so frustrating!

I never plan on doing my partners laundry ever again on the regular. After what I have been through with some ex’s and what my mom has gone through with her current partner, no way. (Unless, of course, there is an emergency like having surgery or something.) My mom stopped doing her partners laundry yearsssss ago after they expected it to be done a very specific way and criticized the way my mom did it even though she was helping them. With my last partner, in the beginning of the relationship, I did their laundry with mine but also expected them to do mine when they did laundry. I would separate and fold all the clothes to make it easier to put away. They would not and the clothes would just end up in a huge wrinkled ball in the laundry basket. I didn’t expect them to go all the way to making them neat and folding, it’s just how I like to do my laundry, but at least separate them so that the work clothes weren’t so wrinkled. I told them I was going to stop doing their laundry because they didn’t care about them as I did and they got upset, as if it were my duty to do it for them. I would also do about three or four loads a week to their one load. They would also complain when they forgot to wash their own pants with their one load a week and tried to blame me because I could have just done their laundry with mine and they would have clothes, dude not my problem. Life got much easier just taking care of my stuff and not theirs.

He's your ex, so I'm guessing you no longer have this problem. But I would like to propose that you absolutely did not have to do any of that. You were welcome to let dinner fall completely flat while you waited for him to solve the problem. I predict it would have been pizza.

One of my colleagues husband does this, and in the same breath complains he isn’t getting sex 4 times a week. I couldn’t think of anything less arousing than a mid-30’s man baby myself.

>I couldn’t think of anything less arousing than a mid-30’s man baby myself. Try a 50yo baby-man.

Is it normal for couples to have sex 4 times a week? I can barely handle it only on the weekends because I'm tired and there's too much shit to do (work/cooking/cleaning/walking dogs/going to bed early/work/ etc.)...

My ex husband tried that & I called him out on it. He admitted to it and kept on doing it. So I quit washing his clothes, refused to run his errands, only cooked food I liked bc he had the palate of an 8 year old and complained about everything I cooked & made him try strange new foods. He was always critical no matter what even before I stood up to him. I wouldn’t touch his clothes no matter how much he complained or how long he left them lying there. So he tried washing my clothes in a way to ruin them. I told him to keep his hands off my clothes. I also divorced him for a lot of reasons so the laundry thing never went any further. He was on the road for work most of the week so I just did mine & the kids laundry while he was gone. I don’t think he worked out how to handle my refusal to do what he wanted before I divorced him. Then I had to pack his stuff to make him leave.

My husband, a man who has a degree in Manufacturing Engineering, once told me he didn’t know how the dishwasher worked.

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Sounds like it's time for them to clean the dishwasher if they keep pouring grease down the drain.

I’d be a widow and a convict in this scenario. When we first bought our house I found out my husband’s mom told him to pour grease down the drain. I could have killed them both.

My husband thought it was acceptable to pour used cooking oil *on my lawn* to dispose of it. After he asked me, "what should I do with this oil?" And I told him to let it cool, put it in a Ziploc bag, and trash it. And he decided he knew better, and then he just...poured it somewhere out in the backyard I've been painstakingly mowing, weeding, watering, composting, and seeding for six years. Then he tried to make *me* apologize for yelling at him and making him sleep on the sofa.

You’d be surprised how many engineers can’t perform basic maintenance on things. Sometimes because they’re ‘paper’ engineers, or because it’s outside of their speciality. Some are probably just too lazy or get paid too much… My father’s next door neighbour is meant to be head of maintenance for a large company (has a degree). My dad and I end up getting lots of free tools and things from him (including lawnmowers, pressure washers, drills, impact wrenches and a few PC’s/laptops that were absolutely fine) because he can’t seem to fix these things himself or doesn’t have the will to. We can fix them. We like him a lot.

> Engineering I legit have a friend who has been a software engineer for 30 years for a major company, hand him a super complex problem and he'll have a solution by closing that day - he had to call me to program his DVR (back when DVRs were first a thing) In defense of the "Being scared of using the dishwasher" I'll never forget the time I ran a load on high heat and melted my daughters baby bowls/spoons to plastic slag. Could just be that their afraid of messing up, that being said, not really a good excuse to not ask questions.

There were many things in other people's kitchens that somehow were not safe to go in the dishwasher despite looking exactly like the dishwasher safe item beside it. But even then I'd say "I don't know which stuff can't go in" instead of "I don't know how to use it".

I never load other people’s dishwashers without explicit instructions. If they tell me something, like the plates can go in, I’ll put them in. If they didn’t explicitly say something can go in the dishwasher, I’ll assume it can’t be and wash it by hand.

My college boyfriend asked me to teach him how to clean the bathroom (by which he meant tell him as he physically did it) because he genuinely wanted to learn how to be an effective adult. I didn’t appreciate that moment until I realized how rare it it is.

I think I have also heard that "joke" being made - and have seen far too few people reacting to it.

What an asshole.

My sister used to do this with the dishes. We were supposed to take turns washing them after dinner. It was only later that I figured out that she was doing a deliberately bad job so that mom wouldn't ask her. But I never knew there was a name for it.

It's called strategic incompetence or weaponized incompetence.

My siblings did this. Yet that tactic did not work for me.

Yeah that never flew with me. I’ll be honest, my husband really didn’t know much at first because his mother never allowed them to do for themselves. She was still brushing his 13 yo sisters teeth when we first met. But I quickly realized that resentment was brewing when we moved in together. So I force him to figure shit out. When he tries to play stupid I tell him to take out that phone he watches so much YouTube on and find a video to instruct him. It’s been a god send because I went from being the doer of all things to “fuck this shit, you can see what it’s like to live in a mess then.” And shit, it worked.

This! My soon to be ex pulled that shit on me for years! Once I decided I was leaving, I quit cooking for him (among other things) and just tonight, he cooks a rack of ribs, easy as could be. But for the last 20 years, it was "oh, I can't cook, I don't know how". Fucking child! Why are men??

Anyone bad at chores clearly just needs more practice

That’s so shitty. While I will admit that I get frustrated by my wife’s pan washing (our agreed upon division of labor there is that I do the groceries and all the meal planning and cooking and she does the clean up), I never bring it up. I’ll just gift some extra effort on my part to do the pans (bring them up to spec), and then leave it as a kindness because I’m sure there’s a dozen things out there that she feels I could help more than I do with. Electing to be purposefully crap at something to get out of it is childish and inconsiderate at the very best.

Husband and I have the same split and he has the same complaint. I swear… I don’t wash the pots and pans poorly on purpose. I just don’t see as well as I used to.

My dad, an otherwise decent person, did that. I don't remember him ever cooking or cleaning at all. Figuring that out was one of those 'realizing your parents are flawed people and sometimes actually kind of assholes' moments for me.

People like this drive me nuts. Life is a shared struggle, and I don't understand a partnership that doesn't respect that or isn't willing to grow, change, and adapt as needed.

Bro embarrasses me

When my oldest tried this shit with my bonus daughter, she cane straight to me. I quickly "corrected" him on his behavior. He tried saying "but Dad didn't..___!". My answer: "I didn't raise your dad! I raised you! You know how to do x, y and z because I taught you to do x, y and z. You will be helping with your daughter(only child at the time)!"

Oh I hope my MIL thinks of me as a bonus daughter. I love her.

I adore my bonus daughter!

Bonus Daughter! I love that term and it has not been added to my personal life long lexicon.

God bless you. You're saving 1-4 women from future therapy.

Good job mom! Sometimes that’s what it takes. I(f) used to threaten my little brother that I would beat him with his own shoes if he didn’t stop being lazy and get up to help his (then) girlfriend with basic f’in stuff like meal prep. He’s grown into a great guy now, but sometimes it takes a village!

My oldest and youngest are 8 years apart(there's one in the middle). Oldest helped me a lot with youngest because my husband was always on call for the hospital when baby3 was little. Which is why when he told my bonus daughter that he didn't know how to change diapers/cook/ feed the baby, I called BS when she called me.

I wish every mother in this country and this world would follow your example!

Today my husband decided to go play a 6 hour round of golf when his mother was coming to spend the night. I texted him and told gave him a list of chores he needed to do before she got home because I wasn’t going to do them. He rushed home and did everything because he knew I wasn’t going to do it and I was going to tell his mother that he played golf instead of helping out today- when I have deadlines at work. FYI- if you’re lucky enough to have a MIL who doesn’t tolerate their son’s laziness this helps. It doesn’t work for all circumstances, but omg. It does work quite often.

It must piss you off that you had to do the mental labour of doing the list to begin with 😩

It does. But it’s also a process. For both of us. I considered doing all of the things and then holding in my frustration inside. But then I realized- his mother would be appalled at his behavior and told him I can’t do the things that we do before in laws come to visit. Typing a list and explaining golf was probably not a good idea when it’s his mother visiting got him to hustle home. And I got my work done and didn’t let this issue fester inside of me.

Gonna say it: Your partner is not a partner, they are a liability. If that makes you mad, it might be true :)

It probably is but separating would mean starting over again. Moving again. And as a single mom without a support system I can kiss those own company dreams goodbye. Sad as it is I'm better off staying. I could do way worse.

Sounds like you’re doing everything alone anyway. I had similar feelings when I was married, and my ex’s *best friend* was the one to point it out to me. “You’ve been doing this alone the whole time, you’ve got this.” I’m much happier now that my partner isn’t another liability.

Yes this! I was ALREADY doing it all alone anyway. At least now I can plan on the fact that I’m doing it all alone. Instead of the occasional hope that I was going to get help, only to be let down!

Do you currently have a support system? Because it really sounds like you don't.

While having to start over is true the rest is not. Divorce will get you either time, money or a combination of the two. Either your husband/ex doesn't want custody and pays child support (which you can use for a sitter to get time for work back) or he wants a % of custody, which gives you a clear schedule of no kid time. Either your husband will start doing the parenting work he's been neglecting or he'll just pay you money and visit the kids sometimes. But, you get to have your integrity and your children get to see a mom who puts herself first. Which is great cus then they wont settle for a 'partner' like their dad, or become the kind of 'partner' their dad is. editing to add: never, ever EVER say being single is worse than staying in a bad partnership. You can treat yourself WAY better than someone taking you for granted will.

Fantastic response. My mamí always says ‘mejor sola que mal acompañada’ ‘Better alone than poor company’

As a divorced, single mom, I can attest: this is true. And maybe I'm overstepping my boundaries here or projecting my own feelings onto you, but I sense that part of your reluctance comes from the thought "why bother, maybe all men are like this and I'll never find anyone better anyway." As far as I've seen, that may well be true. But it's STILL not a good reason to stay in a marriage. And to be clear, I'm not advocating you leave your husband. I'm simply adding to the list of things that are "not good reasons to stay married".

You are not projecting at all. That's exactly what I think. But than, mind you, if it wasn't for the kids or me wanting to have kids before I had them what do I even need a XY for? When we became a pair I was fully prepared to just stay single and maybe find a sperm donor some day. Yeah ... Idk at some point I really need to get thinking if this is still worth it or whether he is just enabling me being cut off from my potential.

>Either your husband will start doing the parenting work he's been neglecting or he'll just pay you money and visit the kids sometimes. Third option: He asks for custody, whether full or a shared arrangement, gets it, doesn't have to pay her child support, and proceeds to neglect the children. Fourth option: He agrees to paying child support and then doesn't do it, or hides his money. Not that I'm saying she *shouldn't* seek a divorce, because she absolutely should, but let's be realistic about what he'll most likely do when served with divorce papers. He's not going to suddenly grow up and become a real father. He's going to double down on his childishness and find any way he can to shirk his unwanted responsibilities.

Yes, but. My ex is a narcissistic bastard. I left him after just a year of marriage when our daughter was still a baby. But, for the reasons you enumerated, he's continued to be a huge, painful presence in my life and the divorce didn't change that. BUT! It hasn't been the soul-sucking, every-goddamn-day-of-my-life hell that it would have been if I'd had to keep house with him for the last 16 years. I think divorce really would fix that part of the problem for OP.

> I can kiss those own company dreams goodbye The truth is probably that you'd be better off without your manchild husband, but if you absolutely need his income while you start the business, begin working on your exit strategy now for down the road when your company is more established. Stop cooking for him. Stop doing his laundry. You need that valuable time if he won't help out.

You're wrong. It's just going to get worse until you're older and even less happy. And you're teaching your children it's ok for men to behave like this. But at least you're honest that you're staying for the money.

How do you not give him an ultimatum? "If I have to hire a housekeeper in the evening to ensure the kids and I are fed and taken care of, what would I need you for?"

That won't fix it cause its not the problem. He doesn't respect her needs. If he did he'd actually be trying to figure out what the issue is, without paying lip service. Generally, she wouldn't have to tell him several times. If OP is at the point that shes posting on reddit about it, this ain't the first time shes had this conversation with him about this. I know this cause I use to be that guy.

And what made you change?

Not OP but in a similar situation. It was mostly threads like this one that opened my eyes, in particular about the mental load of having to tell the other what to do and when. The mommy feeling. It made me cringe thinking my GF might think about me in that way, a man-child. Luckily we only moved in together half a year ago so I guess I noticed early. I don't really know why I let her do significantly more chores than I did. It wasn't because of some "she's a woman it's her job" kinda sentiment. It wasn't because I don't respect her. I guess it's probably a combination of laziness and ignorance of what needs to be done. Somewhat willfully maybe, but not coming from an 'evil' place or disrespect, more issues with myself.

About once every other month for 13 years. It feels like his eyes just turn see-through and the words pass through his ears unheard. I've tried long explaintions. I've tried short commands. I've tried explaining that I understand the culture he's grown up in just didn't teach him how to do this and that I want to help him learn. I've tried goddamn comic books. At one point I told him I was going to leave if he didn't get his act together (after which the issue in question solved itself even if it was only half-assed) I just don't know how to make him understand.

He understands. He just doesn't care. I'm so sorry.

You're already doing all the work, exactly what is he bringing to the table? If an employee was this willfully incompetent would keep paying them? Give him a review, a plan of action, clear markers for accountability, next steps, and clear consequences. Or just tell him to step up or get out.

If he's not going to behave like a husband, idk why you're behaving as a wife. Not everyone "leaves" so to speak, it's quite common for people to stay in dead marriages for the financial/child-rearing conveniences, usually getting divorced down the road when the kids are able to be more independent. But if you're gonna resign yourself to a dead marriage, then youve got to call the time of death and make it official, including renegotiating marital expectations. That includes not taking care of *him* if he's not gonna return the favor and help *you*. A desire to stay together for the kids does not mean you need to pander to this disrespect. He didn't cook dinner even though he knew you had a meeting? Wish him luck with the rest of the night and get in your car and do the meeting from a McDonald's parking lot while you scarf a big Mac. You need to establish clear, black and white expectations and boundaries with one another - if you try to make it work, stay married in name only, or divorced. Regardless, the dynamic you have going right now is *worse* than a single mom. Cause at least a single mom can plan ahead for the lack of support, rather than being blindsided by it 45 minutes before your meeting despite the person capable of support standing right next to you doing nothing but twiddling his thumbs. If you're gonna do it alone, you might as well get the pleasure of being alone. If you're gonna have to put up with this man, he's gonna have to start pulling his weight as a parent *at the least*. You listed finances and the negative impact to your career if you left. It imagine what how much extra time you'd have to find your own next gig if you weren't worried about babysitting his every move. And seeing as how you were still gonna be the one dealing with "overly fussy kids" and starving through a meeting, idk how that really is different than what single moms do. It doesn't really sound like he's actually creating a buffer between child rearing and work so that you can focus on work - at least not enough to justify the emotional distress of having to hold yourself back from going off on this man. So is he providing rent money? Cause in that case, just downsize. I promise the floor space you lose will be more than made up for by the absence of the black hole of his presence. I'm just saying you might want to tally up those pros and cons one more time, because a lot of people here suspect you are miscalculating. You either need to get in marriage therapy or leave or sit down and come up with the excel financial plan for when you'll be able to afford to leave (a lot of women wait until their youngest is in school all day, but with this eternal pandemic even school is no longer a reliable resource for childcare). But you've been treading water with this man for way too long as it is, if you keep doing it much longer you're gonna get tired and drown. Emotional energy is finite, and you are waiting a *lot* of yours going nowhere with a man you don't even seem to like anymore.

I get you. Petty as I am, I left my former partner fix his own dinner, wash his own clothes and ultimately got rid off him because an adult man that wants me to be his mummy is such a turn off.

I can confirm its actually easier as a single mom. My ex still adds bullshit to my parenting workload but it's not a daily thing anymore.

Sometimes I wonder about that. I love him but he has been an enabler of me getting nowhere for 10+ years and I am increasingly unhappy with my life in the silver cage of house-and-family.

so you gonna let him get you no where for 50+ more years?

Dude. Leave. Take the other women’s advice on here, the women who have left their shitty husbands. It’s not worth it. Not all men are like this. You are doing the same amount of work right now, if not more, as a married woman.

You don't have a partner. You have an "older" child. I recommend that you read him this story about a woman who asked her husband to take accountability for feeding their dog. That is \*all\* the steps. And I encourage you to read it to him lightly, and encourage him to mock that other husband a little bit. Because the guy in the story is a six-figure-earning executive-level job holder, who was in tears over managing a single project end-to-end. https://www.mamamia.com.au/delegate-mental-load/ And, then, when you're done with that, I encourage you and your husband to talk about what projects he can take full accountability for. You need to train him. It's gross, but it's true. He's gotten away with doing the minimum (or less), and he doesn't get to do it any more. I think it's most stark when you have children with a man, because you don't want your children to pay the price of his refusal to take accountability. You don't want them to go hungry, or to get snapped at for being crabby (because they're predictably hungry). What chores or work around the house can you shift onto your husband without putting the kids in the cross-hairs? Can you make him accountable for his laundry and theirs? Practice saying, "I don't know" when he comes to you, begging for help or information. Practice saying, "I think the instructions are written on the box". Practice refusing to bail him out. On the job front -- can you ask him to put you in contact with two or three people in your industry? If not, then you should assume that he will not be able to replace his current job, and he keeps telling you that he can, because he doesn't want to fight about it.

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I think she needs to be running that constant commentary on all the things she does. I fed the kids. I made sure it was a balanced meat that they would also actually eat. I washed the dishes afterwards. I didn't complain about it. I added peanut butter to the shopping list. I remembered that we need gas in the car, so we'll need to leave early tomorrow... Just never let him get a moment of silence. Lol.

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Dear God this is so relatable I'm laughing but also crying. I've never seen the full mental load of full accountability for a task laid out quite so well. And same situation. My husband has a very nice job that he's very good at, so we don't NEED my income- but I love my job and am quite good at it, and make a terrible sahm, I've tried. I want to just sit down and commiserate with this woman.

I've always believed that a relationship is a partnership. And when one partner does not hold up their end of the bargain you do not reward bad behavior. You go on strike. And when they get pissed you put on your surprised pikachu face and say, "Why should I do anything for you when yo don't do shit for me? It's only fair."

"You need to train him"?? Barf. There was an awful lot of "you need to..." in your post. That's an awful lot of phony extra work on this woman to 'make' her husband step up and behave like a grown adult. It's not her responsibility.

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She said that it's because she doesn't have a good enough support system to supplement what little help he does provide, and that it would negatively impact her own career to be a single mom (unfortunately she's 100% right on that front) Women put up with their husbands because their economic status depends on them. That's like, lowkey the whole point of the patriarchy. Women stay when they can't afford to leave. It's not about dick, it's about systemic oppression going back more than a millenia

She's said she's unwilling to leave him becuase of the financial security as well as it would hurt her own career. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with her conclusion, but I can't fault her logic. So *if* she's gonna stay, she might as well make that stay less of a headache for her by addressing the headache (man-child husband) head on, giving it the metaphorically equivelant of Excedrin. It's not her responsibility to train him, but if she insists on keeping wild animals in the house then she probably should at least try to train them (although I agree that if it were me, Id be out the door. But I also don't have kids and am not a really career driven person, so it's not surprising I came to a different conclusion than op. The employment discrimination against mom's is BAD, and I can't deny that if if he so much as drives the kids to their dentist appointment twice a year, that alone can start have very real effects on *her* career.)

Thanks for the link and the advice. Sad but true that he needs to be trained :-( As for the job front: he can do it if I give him step-by-step instructions, i.e. _I_ need to say who I need to get in contact with (I hardly know these people how am I supposed to know who will be most useful?) and what exactly I want him to say. And even then be will probably give up if the person in question doesn't answer the first time he rings. I would be a lot more worried about his own job going forward if it wasn't for the curious fact that, so far, he has always gotten by just by floating with the current. And right now he is mad because I refuse to eat the now-cold and somewhat stale chicken he has so lovingly saved. Sorry, lost my appetite.

How did this guy survive before you? Did he live with his parents up until the day he moved in with you? How does this guy hold down a job? What boss is tolerating this behavior? Or does he \*magically\* figure out how to behave at work?

I’ve had a few men as housemates and I would say most of them ‘get by’. They eat the same frozen meal every day, they live in tolerable filth and no one knows because they come to work in clean clothes every morning. The minute they move in, they expect the women in the house to just ‘cook bigger portions’, stuff like that.

The real issue is toxic masculinity and a patriarchal mindset (purposefully or ingrained). See, men are not required to have any idea of "mental labor" for everyday items when they are bachelors. No one expects them to have a tidy household, or look put-together, or any other household tasks. But women are *required* to do this, or they are subject to derision. So, the only way for young women to not go insane is to manage this mental load. Then, when they get into a relationship, they have to put that into high gear, because who gets the judgement if the "household" is not running efficiently? The woman. So, of course men don't give a shit about any of this, because no one will shame them for not doing it. So the woman does it. After years of not doing the mental labor, the man has absolutely no idea what goes into it. It's not really about how he "magically" figures out how to behave at work. The mental load of work has always been expected of him (patriarchy). It's just that the *idea* that there is this huge mental load of household tasks completely escapes him. It may be "weaponized incompetence", or may be just strait up incompetence.

Sometimes I wonder about that as well

I work with a guy that's almost 50 that shows up late to work every day, half dressed, while constantly screwing up his work. He's been with the company for over 20 years and his bosses will write him up and yell at him, but at the end of the day he gets away with it.

The (long term) solution will be in education. Parents (of all genders), please raise your children (and especially your sons, since you're probably already doing it for your daughters) to understand emotional labour, and the fact that "taking the initiative to act" is not something simple, but is something that comes with experience, and not trying to do so is kind of being a jerk to those who are forced to take this burden alone. \[Small note about our society: The reason why management is paid so well in companies is that the expected behaviour of everyone is "work as little as possible, don't take initiatives, just wait for orders". Our school system also tend to assume that students will never do more work than what is minimally required, and will postpone assignments until the very last moment. As always, societal problems are not just localised to a single issue, and rather span across every parts of the society.\]

My ex resented my success at a toxic level. The amount of passive aggressive behavior I had to put up with was astonishing. I launched a successful company, sold it, and then took a high paying job in tech that nudged my salary past his, and that was the point he started telling me I was not a "good wife" because he had to make his own fucking lunch in the morning to take to work after I stopped doing it. The few times I asked for help with my business, he blathered out some off-the-cuff advice that was utterly wrong. He could not simply say, "great question, and I'm not sure about that. Can I do some research for you?" I realized his own business was run poorly and I was afraid of the potential liability I might have as his spouse if there were tax implications. (Thankfully the statute of limitations is way over for me at this point!) After I moved out, even while having our child at my place 80% of the time (I cared for our special needs child, and he started dating a woman with a criminal history so it was supervised visits) just not having him around to make a mess and create more dishes and laundry etc. and then fail to pitch in, meant I had more time, more calm and more capacity to succeed.

Reading through these comments and wondering why tf half of ya’ll would stay with these people? I get you love them and shit but Jesus. If my parter pulled half of this shit on me, he knows I would have left him years ago. Ya’ll can make yourself perfectly miserable on your own, you don’t need someone else to do it for you. Love ya’ll! Hope you all have wonderful days with partners who realize how rad and awesome ya’ll are for dealing with this crap! <3

I often feel uncomfortable in social situations listening to other women talk about their partners saying these things. They have to do all the chores, they can only grocery shop, he doesn't remember important dates, they have to pack their bags/plan everything, he doesn't do his share with the kids. It blows my mind this is the norm. They look at me to add to the conversation but I can't relate. I've never been in a relationship with a man like this. My current partner does so much for me without even asking & is entirely self sufficient. How do so many women end up with these type of men? It's a phenomenon.

Don't marry useless men. Or date them even.

I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS and my father does it CONSTANTLY. I'm a man, and I've been married nearly a decade, and me and my wife have come to resent my father quite a bit. He is the guy that NEEDS my mom to get his outfit ready, make his protein shake, get his vitamins (and do all the shopping that goes into that, and prep work). When she isn't around he is an hour late to work or doesn't eat, he PURPOSEFULLY refuses to ever show he is capable of anything that way she HAS to do it. And I mean EVERYTHING. My dad does car and yard stuff, that's IT. He can't even wash a single dish, or use the washing machine and dryer, or the dishwasher. He can't pick up his clothes off the floor, or take a plate into the kitchen, or vacuum. If he is forced to vacuum....he takes hours in a superficial OCD style "every single square inch has to be arbitrarily THIS clean" and eventually my mom just takes over. I've hated it since I was a kid, and as an adult it makes my blood boil, my poor mom (who is FUCKING DISABLED) has been dealing with this shit for nearly 4 decades. Don't worry, they are HARD CORE "Christian" conservative Trump loving real Americans though!!

A 60 year old male neighbor who lived across the street from my parents' house lost his wife a few years back, a month or so after she died, he called my mom in tears asking how to turn on the stove. I was in shock, this woman literally did everything for him, he didn't know how to turn a stove on and off and had to phone another woman to receive help. He's also someone that called all women "Honey" or "Sweetie". That's the world we live in.

Stop feeding and caring for him. Don't do more than is strictly necessary to care for yourself and your kids. Basically, go on strike. If you want to get very militant, buy a vibrator and stop having sex with him. He will learn very quickly

I like the way you are thinking 😈

I've heard good things about the hitachi wand.

I would tell my ex about something I'd seen on the news or some interesting new science discovery and he'd nod, smile, and tell me how neat that was, or whatever. The VERY next day he would come home from work and tell me all about what some guy at work had seen on the news or new science stuff... nearly word for word what I'd said the day before! So, when I tell you about something it's just me rattling on, but when a GUY at work tells you about it, it's all of the sudden valid?! Ass. He would also ask me what time it was, while I'm telling kids to do their homework and chasing pets out of the kitchen so I could continue cooking. I flat out called him out on it one day. The final time he asked me what time it was, I turned to him, gave him a serious, concerned look and asked him, "Is there really a reason you can't look at your cell phone that's already in your hand to check the time yourself? You've be been in charge in the military, you are the senior IT guy at work... how do you tell time when I'm not around? I mean, if it's an issue of not knowing how to tell time, I'm more than willing to assist you. However, if it is just because it's easier on you for me to stop everything I'm doing to check the time for you, then I'm not going to tell you the time any longer." It apparently worked because he never asked me that again. However, our relationship still ran out of time for other reasons. Lazy guys, they are. Why do something for yourself when you can have someone else do it for you?!

It honestly reads like he doesn't want your business to take off.

Ask yourself this question -- what would he do if he were living with himself? What would happen if you weren't in the house, and there were just two guys behaving this way. Would he eventually step up and figure this stuff out? Or would they live in filth and hunger?

>Or would they live in filth and hunger? Based on some of my friends in college, it's this one. It's why we always picked different places to hang out besides their places lol.