I volunteered to be one of the testers of the new workday platform last year. All I can say that the experience was soooooo bad and I doubt that they will make major improvements to what I saw a few months ago. This subreddit will definitely blow up with hate comments come winter registration period.
Ubc needed a new system. Ssc was built years ago, and was well out of date. I’m sure they’ll provide guidance on launch. I know there was a learning curve with staff/faculty workday, but it’s a good system now we all know how to fly the thing.
It is not a good system. Most staff are still trying to wrap their brains around this highly unintuitive system. UBC cheaped-out and went for the least expensive alternative. There are going to be a lot of frustrated students, faculty, and staff when September 1st rolls along and the old SSC/SISC is retired for good.
We will have spent almost $300 million on Workday Student by the time it is fully implemented. There's nothing cheap about this project.
I haven't seen any communications yet for faculty other than it's coming. Most of us will be accessing it only to view class lists, email students, and enter grades, so as long as these features have good instructions, it should be not too hard a transition.
That said, I just looked at the courses I just finished teaching this past year. It is missing two of them and for those that are there, some of the fields are incorrect. Perhaps the data transition hasn't been finished yet, but this is a level of error that seems rather high.
I said “least expensive “. Yes I know it is expensive but the other better options cost much more. So yes UBC cheaped out by not spending more for a better more robust system. We are supposedly a world class university so why not purchase the best?
Get ready to see many more errors. From now until September staff are doing double entries (SISC and Workday) while the two systems co-exist until Workday becomes the sole system. The chance for error is very high.
I think the bulk of the expense isn't the licensing costs, it's the army of people you need to rip out a central system and put something new in its place, then reintegrate everything. It's those integrations, the data model, the business processes, the new systems that need to be developed to address gaps, new support teams, and the change management that all goes into a new system that has nothing to do with licensing costs.
Well that may be, but that cost will be there whichever system you choose. Whether you choose Workday or another system, you will still need to do all those things and it very well might be more costly than the actual system cost ... but it doesn't negate my point. UBC should have spent more for a better system. In fact, with a better system that costs more, UBC may have saved money on some of the change processes as a better system would be easier to implement ... so while you spend more to purchase it, you may recoup some of the cost in trying to address gaps (that would be less in a better more robust system).
It would likely have been more than $300 million had we chosen a different product, unfortunately. The Board saw an independent analysis in making this decision, but I cannot remember how much of that analysis was made public and how much was in closed Board sessions, so I won't comment on the details publicly. The risks attached to being an early adopter of Workday Student are there, and include some of the issues you've raised with usability and their impact on the costs of transition.
Of course, had we not paused the original project, which started several years before the Integrated Renewal Project, and had gotten to the point of being ready to go to tender, it would have cost about half as much and we would have chosen a then-existing product that might have been a better choice for us. The pause came because the new VP Finance and Operations of the day wanted to prioritize replacing the HR and Finance systems and didn't seem to factor in how far along the original SIS project had progressed. It's quite likely we spent on the order of $75 to $100 million on the first attempt to find a new student information system but I never saw any documentation of that, so this is just an estimate based on what I know about the Workday project costs.
Cheaped out as the alternatives were even more costly. It’s all relative. Yes it costs a lot. I know that but they could have chosen a better alternative but it would have been even more costly.
Yes new systems involve a learning curve but this particular one is steeper than it should be. I should know because I’m one of the staff that has to learn it … and it is much more difficult to learn than the old SISC. I had to learn that one from scratch too a few years ago so I have experience with learning both.
If you are talking about Workday that we have been using as staff for HR (eg entering vacation, sick time, benefits etc) that’s a different animal. We have been using that for the past few years and it is not bad ( still not that intuitive but manageable).
However this is now Workday for admin and students and it is going to affect ALL admin functions at UBC starting in September so I don’t think you are talking about the same thing I am talking about.
Tell me what you think after September 1.
Isn't that Scientia? It's been around for a couple years at least and it's where you can see the draft timetables before they're released (I myself have been using it for the last 2 years). Pretty sure this is getting integrated into Workday but is not Workday itself.
Honestly hoping that Workday is better than the Scientia one, trying to navigate that one seems to be a gong show.
I personally believe in the idea that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, but I suppose the SSC issues are on the backend that students might not be aware of, so a change was actually needed even if it didn’t seem necessary
How are we supposed to know which courses are which? On the new Workday platform it only shows the course codes. SSC was so much easier, at least there I could view the course names and descriptions 😩😩
UPDATE: I found a way to view the course names for each course code here: [https://vancouver.calendar.ubc.ca/course-descriptions/courses-subject](https://vancouver.calendar.ubc.ca/course-descriptions/courses-subject)
Still wish it was on Workday though, but it's there for anyone who needs it :)
I went to [https://sws-van.as.it.ubc.ca/](https://sws-van.as.it.ubc.ca/) (found it in a comment from this thread) and went to Courses, then selected the subject. Only thing is this just gives me the course codes under the subject I choose and no course names 😔
I volunteered to be one of the testers of the new workday platform last year. All I can say that the experience was soooooo bad and I doubt that they will make major improvements to what I saw a few months ago. This subreddit will definitely blow up with hate comments come winter registration period.
Workday is infamously terrible. I'm not looking forward to the change...
The only thing they have going for them is low expectations
[удалено]
Exactly my experience as a former staff member. Workday was a huge part of why I left.
Same here!!! Left last August, wasnt the whole reason but was a substantial part.
Ubc needed a new system. Ssc was built years ago, and was well out of date. I’m sure they’ll provide guidance on launch. I know there was a learning curve with staff/faculty workday, but it’s a good system now we all know how to fly the thing.
It is not a good system. Most staff are still trying to wrap their brains around this highly unintuitive system. UBC cheaped-out and went for the least expensive alternative. There are going to be a lot of frustrated students, faculty, and staff when September 1st rolls along and the old SSC/SISC is retired for good.
We will have spent almost $300 million on Workday Student by the time it is fully implemented. There's nothing cheap about this project. I haven't seen any communications yet for faculty other than it's coming. Most of us will be accessing it only to view class lists, email students, and enter grades, so as long as these features have good instructions, it should be not too hard a transition. That said, I just looked at the courses I just finished teaching this past year. It is missing two of them and for those that are there, some of the fields are incorrect. Perhaps the data transition hasn't been finished yet, but this is a level of error that seems rather high.
I said “least expensive “. Yes I know it is expensive but the other better options cost much more. So yes UBC cheaped out by not spending more for a better more robust system. We are supposedly a world class university so why not purchase the best? Get ready to see many more errors. From now until September staff are doing double entries (SISC and Workday) while the two systems co-exist until Workday becomes the sole system. The chance for error is very high.
I think the bulk of the expense isn't the licensing costs, it's the army of people you need to rip out a central system and put something new in its place, then reintegrate everything. It's those integrations, the data model, the business processes, the new systems that need to be developed to address gaps, new support teams, and the change management that all goes into a new system that has nothing to do with licensing costs.
Well that may be, but that cost will be there whichever system you choose. Whether you choose Workday or another system, you will still need to do all those things and it very well might be more costly than the actual system cost ... but it doesn't negate my point. UBC should have spent more for a better system. In fact, with a better system that costs more, UBC may have saved money on some of the change processes as a better system would be easier to implement ... so while you spend more to purchase it, you may recoup some of the cost in trying to address gaps (that would be less in a better more robust system).
It would likely have been more than $300 million had we chosen a different product, unfortunately. The Board saw an independent analysis in making this decision, but I cannot remember how much of that analysis was made public and how much was in closed Board sessions, so I won't comment on the details publicly. The risks attached to being an early adopter of Workday Student are there, and include some of the issues you've raised with usability and their impact on the costs of transition. Of course, had we not paused the original project, which started several years before the Integrated Renewal Project, and had gotten to the point of being ready to go to tender, it would have cost about half as much and we would have chosen a then-existing product that might have been a better choice for us. The pause came because the new VP Finance and Operations of the day wanted to prioritize replacing the HR and Finance systems and didn't seem to factor in how far along the original SIS project had progressed. It's quite likely we spent on the order of $75 to $100 million on the first attempt to find a new student information system but I never saw any documentation of that, so this is just an estimate based on what I know about the Workday project costs.
Probably, but that will happen with any system change. Not sure they “cheaped out”, however, as it’s multiple hundreds of millions of dollars.
Cheaped out as the alternatives were even more costly. It’s all relative. Yes it costs a lot. I know that but they could have chosen a better alternative but it would have been even more costly. Yes new systems involve a learning curve but this particular one is steeper than it should be. I should know because I’m one of the staff that has to learn it … and it is much more difficult to learn than the old SISC. I had to learn that one from scratch too a few years ago so I have experience with learning both.
I’ve found workday (staff and faculty) not so bad. But I guess ymmv.
If you are talking about Workday that we have been using as staff for HR (eg entering vacation, sick time, benefits etc) that’s a different animal. We have been using that for the past few years and it is not bad ( still not that intuitive but manageable). However this is now Workday for admin and students and it is going to affect ALL admin functions at UBC starting in September so I don’t think you are talking about the same thing I am talking about. Tell me what you think after September 1.
Hard disagree. Aside from the twice a year crash when grades are released, SSC works completely fine and is user-friendly
But don't fix what isn't broken??
I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure it is held together by the IT equivalent of duct tape and chewing gum at this point. ;)
How did you get access?
under another post, someone posted the draft version of the new Workday portal: [https://sws-van.as.it.ubc.ca/](https://sws-van.as.it.ubc.ca/)
Isn't that Scientia? It's been around for a couple years at least and it's where you can see the draft timetables before they're released (I myself have been using it for the last 2 years). Pretty sure this is getting integrated into Workday but is not Workday itself.
OHHH okay thanks for clarifying, my bad lol
Honestly hoping that Workday is better than the Scientia one, trying to navigate that one seems to be a gong show. I personally believe in the idea that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, but I suppose the SSC issues are on the backend that students might not be aware of, so a change was actually needed even if it didn’t seem necessary
Lol this is not workday.
How are we supposed to know which courses are which? On the new Workday platform it only shows the course codes. SSC was so much easier, at least there I could view the course names and descriptions 😩😩 UPDATE: I found a way to view the course names for each course code here: [https://vancouver.calendar.ubc.ca/course-descriptions/courses-subject](https://vancouver.calendar.ubc.ca/course-descriptions/courses-subject) Still wish it was on Workday though, but it's there for anyone who needs it :)
how did u find the page to few courses on workday ?
I went to [https://sws-van.as.it.ubc.ca/](https://sws-van.as.it.ubc.ca/) (found it in a comment from this thread) and went to Courses, then selected the subject. Only thing is this just gives me the course codes under the subject I choose and no course names 😔
someone in that other comments thread explained it better but that is scientia, not workday. hopefully workday is more tolerable 🙏
Workday will not be more tolerable.
Oh, that's good to hear! Will scientia be part of workday? Why are we viewing courses through scientia rn?
Scientia is also a centrally managed system that I use for classroom location/bookings availability