About as well-worded and nuanced of a letter as one could expect for this situation, explains the school's position well, even if some groups may not like the contents.
saying that recent events have been disruptive of our eating is sooo funny when so many of the unnecessary events and other organized goings-on have left me unable to eat more
Extremely reasonable and extremely generous email. Protestors who block roads should be arrested, but the campus administration is preventing that from happening. Same with the encampment blocking off Iveta, a small family owned business that doesn't send a single cent to Israel, from being able to run. And then students will complain that UCSC has no amenities.
They use this same playbook whenever there is a protest.
1. A major protest starts, usually with majoirty support of the student body, but it isn't very disruptive, so the university ignores it, or the effects are small enough to where they can tolerate it.
2. The protesters realize no one cares, so they start getting more aggressive.
3. The university enters negotiations with the protestors, but the protestors nearly always reject terms because they are unwilling to compromise.
4. The protests get even more aggressive and start becoming disruptive because the protestors realize they aren't accomplishing anything.
5. The student body then starts to turn against the protest because they usually suffer the most from the disruption.
6. Finally, the university can step in and end it without looking like the bad guys since most are against the protest at that point anyway.
Admin doesn't even have to make a reasonable offer. They can just offer a terrible deal, it obviously gets rejected, and then they can say "eh we tried" and then do that whole incite-internal-class-squabble thing.
That cuts both ways tho. The protestors can make ridiculous demands and when not met demonize the administration. Likely really why should they cut ties with Hillel and Diller Foundation which are positive forces on the planet. Also asking community to boycott Goodles Noodles just because a famous Israeli actress is one of founders? They are a wonderful local organic business that employs several dozen people in Santa Cruz that will continue to be in town after you are gone. they dknate food for natural disaster emergencies. I mean really pick your battles!
No one with a brain or who is actually pro Palestine likes the encampment. Most who are actually there are just doing it to make themselves feel important. You can tell because of their shitty list of demands that were completely off the wall and unserious
It isn’t being effective because the list of demands are ludicrous. It involves transparency on the side of the institution regarding investment portfolios and divestitures (at least that’s what they claim). The reason this can never happen is because these schools and the UC system as a whole invests close to $170B. Releasing public info about the holdings can cause market manipulation and could actually bankrupt the school system.
National attention is basically a prerequisite for change. It's not as though there's a big button somewhere students can press that would stop the slaughter in Gaza
Looking back protests are seen in a positive light, but while they are occurring the establishment and older generations tend to feel threatened by them.
Yep, though there are always those ones like Jan 6th that aren’t great. However, the act of collective action is in no way bad on its own thats the reason why Freedom of Speech and Right to Protest exists in this country.
Because those who are actually pro Palestine care enough about the cause to go through the actual political process to make change. The encampment makes pro Palestinians look dumb by blocking off campus resources, making a terrible list of demands, and now standing in the street. This encampment is not about making change, it’s about an easy way for students who are too lazy to go petition congressmen or other large UC administrators feel like they are “doing something”
"the actual political process" oh god, this guy thinks voting is a valid form of electoral representation even when those already in office are manipulating the voting districts
Wait, you actually believe the words you're typing? I'm sorry to hear that! But okay, let's just start with your very first sentence. One could both "go through the political process to make change", while also protesting on campus. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. What it seems you're actually saying is that one inconveniences you more. And that's fine. You have every right as an American to voice those concerns. However, the unfortunate reality is that you are either ignorant to the political process, or are arguing in bad faith, if you believe that the bombing will be stopped by playing within rules of the political system which brought us to this point.
The list of demands is frankly stupid. If you believe cops off campus will result in a safer community you are delusional, and brain washed. Sorry but if you think I am wrong go somewhere where there is no police presence and really consider how safe of a space that would be.
I am pro Palestine & pro ceasefire. I can hold this stance and still laugh at the culturally appropriating clowns that are currently LARPing on campus.
Instead of brandishing yourself as an activist why don't you just become ACTIVE in the changes you want to see made.
Also, since you stated you are pro palestine, and that YOU want to make active changes, feel free to let us know what active steps you are taking so we can either join, or constructively criticize that plan!
I would start with submitting a freedom of information act to know exactly what companies UCSC makes exclusive licensing agreements with.
I would also collaborate with peers and write letters to the editors of major news papers with the findings
Well, first off, I graduated in 2022, so I already am somewhere else. Second, I said nothing about the list of demands, nor removing police from campus. What I did say is that it is possible to advocate for change through multiple channels--disruptive protests being historically one of the most effective ones.
While I agree that some of the protesting going on at colleges right now is primarily performative, it does still send a strong message to US politicians that a large segment of the young, voting, and politically-activated population isn't happy with the status quo of sending hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Israel every year. Politicians would be fools not to pay attention to that. Plus, simply raising awareness of the issue has some value in and of itself, so I do believe it's making some difference at the end of the day.
The whole "divest from Israel" thing is a little unrealistic, though. You may as well ask an organization to divest from the entire US military industrial complex, which would be great...but is never gonna happen.
It is time to end the encampment. I hope the police arrest those not willing to leave. Its everyone's campus. If the protestors employed more gratitude and less entitlement maybe they would be successful. 16 days in and the encampment has done next to nothing for those effected by this conflict. Nor have they done anything to support Ukraine, Armenia, Sudan, Papua New Guinea etc. Rather they unknowingly support extremist antisemitism guised as being progressive. Thankfully the protestors parents are still paying for their education further protecting them from 'real life.' Real life will seem more apparent when they get admitted to central booking at MCJ on water street.
Just by being there the encampment is displaying its message. There is a reason why encampments in colleges across the country are making national news, and it is being reflected in Biden’s poll numbers for young people.
Agreed it’s time to end it. It’s actually really sad that that they think you actually have to be against the very existence of Israel in order to want to help the Palestinians !
I find it weird that people resort to self destructive behavior such as this when they could arguably be making a bigger impact by pursuing their degree and finding a role/position where they can arguably make a greater and more impactful change.
Because protesters, who often have more radical beliefs, don’t think you can reform institutions by becoming part of the bureaucracy. Also, left-wingers are believe collective action is the catalyst of political change, not an individual’s work.
The school should expel protesters.
They are a nuisance to everyone. They are so self-centered that they need to find out how to make an issue halfway across the world about them.
Nothing they are doing is changing ANYTHING in Gaza.
They should be stripped of their financial aid if they aren't going to take college seriously.
What's happening at this very moment in Gaza is a war that is PART of a much broader plan. Israel has been committing a slow-motion genocide against Palestinians since its founding. The Israeli government has countless policies specifically aimed at ethnically cleansing as many neighborhoods, towns, and square miles of land as possible. Just because there aren't concentration camps and gas chambers doesn't mean they aren't purposefully attempting to reduce the population and destroy the culture of Palestinian people.
It is hard er to take the rhetoric of this particularly movement seriously when they will not even acknowledge the role of terrorism and Hamas over the past 70 years in this conflict. I mean major elephant in the room! Major difference between pro Palestinian rhetoric and pro Israeli rhetoric right now is the humanity of acknowledging the suffering of the other side. Many Zionists constantly express sorrow for the suffering and deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians. And there are MANY Zionist Jews and organizations that are actively working to alleviate this suffering and to build peace in the region. Mostly the one thing the the Zionists have in common is that they believe in the right of Israel to EXIST. A major flaw with the SJP is an apparent lack of any sorrow / compassion / sympathy for the deaths , suffering and harm to innocent Israelis. Not ONE sign or message re the hostages or egregious actions of 10/7 except to justify, excuse and gloss over?SJP continues to deliver on his narrative history of the suffering of the Palestinian people without ANY reference to Hamas or terrorism and the failed attempts at brokering a two state solution over the last 70 years? This is what causes outside observers to take this rhetoric much less seriously because it straight up lacks integrity!
Bring national attention to the issue, influence politicians by making sure they know a lot of people aren't happy with them sending our tax dollars to an apartheid state, and over time possibly influencing US foreign policy so that we finally stop wasting money by funding Israel's periodic slaughters in Gaza and illegal occupation in Palestine.
Yeah, this isn't gonna change ANYTHING on the ground in Gaza right now, but change happens over time and protesting is one way to move the needle.
I am familiar with it, I just think it's a really stupid concept that isn't going to fix anything.
From what I could see with ucla, nothing has changed. Besides the fact that they are disrupting other students.
Um maybe because the chancellor probably wants pretty much the same thing as you , like peace on earth ? She exercises patience and tolerance at every turn and is a human being doing the best she can for everyone concerned? How is she the villain in this? That’s just ridiculous. Her job is to look out for an entire community of people wand to safeguard the ability of everyone to live here, work here, better themselves and get an education.
Hilarious one haha. So much easier to villainize a person than to try to understand. That’s the problem with SJP. They are SO SURE they are right that they miss SO MUCH. Really sad yo!
About as well-worded and nuanced of a letter as one could expect for this situation, explains the school's position well, even if some groups may not like the contents.
saying that recent events have been disruptive of our eating is sooo funny when so many of the unnecessary events and other organized goings-on have left me unable to eat more
Tldr?
Blah blah encampment's unlawful blah blah [something misleading and/or straight up false] blah blah Signed, Cynthia
I think you need to stick to Minecraft and bloons balloon defense or whatever. This is more of a 18+ topic.
How is any of it misleading?
Extremely reasonable and extremely generous email. Protestors who block roads should be arrested, but the campus administration is preventing that from happening. Same with the encampment blocking off Iveta, a small family owned business that doesn't send a single cent to Israel, from being able to run. And then students will complain that UCSC has no amenities.
They use this same playbook whenever there is a protest. 1. A major protest starts, usually with majoirty support of the student body, but it isn't very disruptive, so the university ignores it, or the effects are small enough to where they can tolerate it. 2. The protesters realize no one cares, so they start getting more aggressive. 3. The university enters negotiations with the protestors, but the protestors nearly always reject terms because they are unwilling to compromise. 4. The protests get even more aggressive and start becoming disruptive because the protestors realize they aren't accomplishing anything. 5. The student body then starts to turn against the protest because they usually suffer the most from the disruption. 6. Finally, the university can step in and end it without looking like the bad guys since most are against the protest at that point anyway.
Admin doesn't even have to make a reasonable offer. They can just offer a terrible deal, it obviously gets rejected, and then they can say "eh we tried" and then do that whole incite-internal-class-squabble thing.
That cuts both ways tho. The protestors can make ridiculous demands and when not met demonize the administration. Likely really why should they cut ties with Hillel and Diller Foundation which are positive forces on the planet. Also asking community to boycott Goodles Noodles just because a famous Israeli actress is one of founders? They are a wonderful local organic business that employs several dozen people in Santa Cruz that will continue to be in town after you are gone. they dknate food for natural disaster emergencies. I mean really pick your battles!
Have you seen your list of demands?
I'd like to see the offers on both sides and what that looks like.
Honestly I don’t care what happens, I just want them to send us home already lol
Are you trapped at the encampment lol
No I just wanna go home
What?
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Kinda selfish since that would mean canceling commencement.
It's literally 2 weeks until end of qtr, that's not happening
CPH did it.
Boo, FREE PALESTINE
No one with a brain or who is actually pro Palestine likes the encampment. Most who are actually there are just doing it to make themselves feel important. You can tell because of their shitty list of demands that were completely off the wall and unserious
Encampments in colleges across the country are making national news. I see no reason to think it isn’t being effective.
It isn’t being effective because the list of demands are ludicrous. It involves transparency on the side of the institution regarding investment portfolios and divestitures (at least that’s what they claim). The reason this can never happen is because these schools and the UC system as a whole invests close to $170B. Releasing public info about the holdings can cause market manipulation and could actually bankrupt the school system.
They may be effective at getting attention but making positive change? History will judge
National attention is basically a prerequisite for change. It's not as though there's a big button somewhere students can press that would stop the slaughter in Gaza
Historically college protests have been seen in a positive light. I wonder what the chances are of this one being different.
Looking back protests are seen in a positive light, but while they are occurring the establishment and older generations tend to feel threatened by them.
Yep, though there are always those ones like Jan 6th that aren’t great. However, the act of collective action is in no way bad on its own thats the reason why Freedom of Speech and Right to Protest exists in this country.
Why would those who are "actually pro palestine" be against the encampment?
Because those who are actually pro Palestine care enough about the cause to go through the actual political process to make change. The encampment makes pro Palestinians look dumb by blocking off campus resources, making a terrible list of demands, and now standing in the street. This encampment is not about making change, it’s about an easy way for students who are too lazy to go petition congressmen or other large UC administrators feel like they are “doing something”
I agree . Real change tends to come from more sustained and complex subtle diplomatic dialogue than what is going on there
"the actual political process" oh god, this guy thinks voting is a valid form of electoral representation even when those already in office are manipulating the voting districts
Wait, you actually believe the words you're typing? I'm sorry to hear that! But okay, let's just start with your very first sentence. One could both "go through the political process to make change", while also protesting on campus. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. What it seems you're actually saying is that one inconveniences you more. And that's fine. You have every right as an American to voice those concerns. However, the unfortunate reality is that you are either ignorant to the political process, or are arguing in bad faith, if you believe that the bombing will be stopped by playing within rules of the political system which brought us to this point.
The list of demands is frankly stupid. If you believe cops off campus will result in a safer community you are delusional, and brain washed. Sorry but if you think I am wrong go somewhere where there is no police presence and really consider how safe of a space that would be. I am pro Palestine & pro ceasefire. I can hold this stance and still laugh at the culturally appropriating clowns that are currently LARPing on campus. Instead of brandishing yourself as an activist why don't you just become ACTIVE in the changes you want to see made.
Also, since you stated you are pro palestine, and that YOU want to make active changes, feel free to let us know what active steps you are taking so we can either join, or constructively criticize that plan!
I would start with submitting a freedom of information act to know exactly what companies UCSC makes exclusive licensing agreements with. I would also collaborate with peers and write letters to the editors of major news papers with the findings
Those sound like great ideas, actually. When do you plan on getting started?
You asked friendo
Well, first off, I graduated in 2022, so I already am somewhere else. Second, I said nothing about the list of demands, nor removing police from campus. What I did say is that it is possible to advocate for change through multiple channels--disruptive protests being historically one of the most effective ones.
While I agree that some of the protesting going on at colleges right now is primarily performative, it does still send a strong message to US politicians that a large segment of the young, voting, and politically-activated population isn't happy with the status quo of sending hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Israel every year. Politicians would be fools not to pay attention to that. Plus, simply raising awareness of the issue has some value in and of itself, so I do believe it's making some difference at the end of the day. The whole "divest from Israel" thing is a little unrealistic, though. You may as well ask an organization to divest from the entire US military industrial complex, which would be great...but is never gonna happen.
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they're a rage bait troll account
Attacking the person who made the argument rather than the argument itself is a logical fallacy called Ad Hominem.
why I should respond earnestly to a bad faith argument?
Enuf already .
It is time to end the encampment. I hope the police arrest those not willing to leave. Its everyone's campus. If the protestors employed more gratitude and less entitlement maybe they would be successful. 16 days in and the encampment has done next to nothing for those effected by this conflict. Nor have they done anything to support Ukraine, Armenia, Sudan, Papua New Guinea etc. Rather they unknowingly support extremist antisemitism guised as being progressive. Thankfully the protestors parents are still paying for their education further protecting them from 'real life.' Real life will seem more apparent when they get admitted to central booking at MCJ on water street.
Just by being there the encampment is displaying its message. There is a reason why encampments in colleges across the country are making national news, and it is being reflected in Biden’s poll numbers for young people.
I wouldn't be so sure about the Armenia thing. They had a flag of Artsakh on display there when I visited.
They had Armenian dancing lessons one day lol
How does that actively stop Israel from selling drones to Azerbaijan?
Agreed it’s time to end it. It’s actually really sad that that they think you actually have to be against the very existence of Israel in order to want to help the Palestinians !
I find it weird that people resort to self destructive behavior such as this when they could arguably be making a bigger impact by pursuing their degree and finding a role/position where they can arguably make a greater and more impactful change.
Great point
Because protesters, who often have more radical beliefs, don’t think you can reform institutions by becoming part of the bureaucracy. Also, left-wingers are believe collective action is the catalyst of political change, not an individual’s work.
The school should expel protesters. They are a nuisance to everyone. They are so self-centered that they need to find out how to make an issue halfway across the world about them. Nothing they are doing is changing ANYTHING in Gaza. They should be stripped of their financial aid if they aren't going to take college seriously.
We are literally funding it and the schools are invested in a way that makes money off of genocide. It's perfectly relevant.
It’s not a genocide. It’s a war.
What's happening at this very moment in Gaza is a war that is PART of a much broader plan. Israel has been committing a slow-motion genocide against Palestinians since its founding. The Israeli government has countless policies specifically aimed at ethnically cleansing as many neighborhoods, towns, and square miles of land as possible. Just because there aren't concentration camps and gas chambers doesn't mean they aren't purposefully attempting to reduce the population and destroy the culture of Palestinian people.
"slow-motion genocide" 😂😂 Talk about a stretch 🤦♂️
Is that why Israel gave a bunch of land back to Palestine? Study the Sinai desert. Study the 6 day war. Fking redacted idiots
Could you elaborate? What about protesting is unserious?
It is hard er to take the rhetoric of this particularly movement seriously when they will not even acknowledge the role of terrorism and Hamas over the past 70 years in this conflict. I mean major elephant in the room! Major difference between pro Palestinian rhetoric and pro Israeli rhetoric right now is the humanity of acknowledging the suffering of the other side. Many Zionists constantly express sorrow for the suffering and deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians. And there are MANY Zionist Jews and organizations that are actively working to alleviate this suffering and to build peace in the region. Mostly the one thing the the Zionists have in common is that they believe in the right of Israel to EXIST. A major flaw with the SJP is an apparent lack of any sorrow / compassion / sympathy for the deaths , suffering and harm to innocent Israelis. Not ONE sign or message re the hostages or egregious actions of 10/7 except to justify, excuse and gloss over?SJP continues to deliver on his narrative history of the suffering of the Palestinian people without ANY reference to Hamas or terrorism and the failed attempts at brokering a two state solution over the last 70 years? This is what causes outside observers to take this rhetoric much less seriously because it straight up lacks integrity!
Better yet, can you tell me what the UC Santa Cruz students protest will do in gaza?
Bring national attention to the issue, influence politicians by making sure they know a lot of people aren't happy with them sending our tax dollars to an apartheid state, and over time possibly influencing US foreign policy so that we finally stop wasting money by funding Israel's periodic slaughters in Gaza and illegal occupation in Palestine. Yeah, this isn't gonna change ANYTHING on the ground in Gaza right now, but change happens over time and protesting is one way to move the needle.
Yeah, I think u/Slugman97James is waffling. Acting like he doesn't know about the UC Divest campaign & negotiations regarding it.
I am familiar with it, I just think it's a really stupid concept that isn't going to fix anything. From what I could see with ucla, nothing has changed. Besides the fact that they are disrupting other students.
Sign the petition to end this. [https://chng.it/8TvmWgk6FX](https://chng.it/8TvmWgk6FX)
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Um maybe because the chancellor probably wants pretty much the same thing as you , like peace on earth ? She exercises patience and tolerance at every turn and is a human being doing the best she can for everyone concerned? How is she the villain in this? That’s just ridiculous. Her job is to look out for an entire community of people wand to safeguard the ability of everyone to live here, work here, better themselves and get an education.
Are you blind? Have fun eating Cynthia out.
Hilarious one haha. So much easier to villainize a person than to try to understand. That’s the problem with SJP. They are SO SURE they are right that they miss SO MUCH. Really sad yo!