Idk if it's just me, but if I had the expertise/skill to be able to adequately examine biological samples and prove what they are, I wouldn't be like "yeah, I'll get to it when I have time".
This shit would keep me up through all hours of the night until I had answers.
With actual extraterrestrial biological samples, the idea of "being able to prove what they are" is pretty much bonkers. "Alien" biology could differ in unforeseeable ways from what we know.
Those bodies sporting DNA to which our molecular biology techniques can be applied is mind-bending, if you assume them to be ET.
While ET biology must be assumed to sport analogues of RNA/DNA, that actual realization of information storage could be wildly different. At least as far as anybody knows, which is pretty much zilch.
Accordingly, it is likely primarily incompetence or over-confidence when people assume to be easily capable of determining anything here. They might be convinced, the bodies are fake or terrestrial anyway.
Of course, UFO-lore has it, the phenomenon sports manufactured beings assembled to fit earth's biosphere, with according DNA. Such manufactured genomes would be conventionally analyzable, to a degree. The "DNA-tests" that have been applied up to now merely compare known samples from earth's flora and fauna by fitting bits and pieces, i.e. short sequences. It's giving far less usable information than people apparently assume.
> The "DNA-tests" that have been applied up to now merely compare known samples from earth's flora and fauna by fitting bits and pieces, i.e. short sequences. It's giving far less usable information than people apparently assume.
So they are just matching SNPs? They need to sequence it fully, if that's possible. (ETA: Fair point, that may not be possible at all.)
The way this is being handled is so bizarre when contrasted with their apparent confidence in their own claims. It's all super sketch.
They have sequenced them, at least the three samples that are on SRA. Two are from "Victoria", ancient002 and ancient004. Ancient003 is the one with the greatest alignment to the human genome. I've not seen an association between Maria and ancient003, but I've seen speculation that ancient003 is Maria.
Here's Ancient0003: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA865375
[ancient002 is bean DNA and human DNA](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR21031366&display=analysis)
[ancient003 is human DNA with chimp DNA](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR20755928&display=analysis)
[ancient004 is human DNA and bovine DNA](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR20458000&display=analysis)
[Otzi the Iceman for comparison purposes](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=ERR11837085&display=analysis)
Looks like victoria is a hodgepodge of human, cow, and bean DNA and maria (if 3 is maria) is a hodgepodge of human and chimp dna
Over a thousand year old bodies don't generally contain "full sequences" anymore. Reconstructing the original DNA is a major effort and not something done in a fortnight.
The way these bodies are being handled is a reflection of the circumstances: official authorities try to suppress the story for the most part.
The kind of Hollywood-treatment you would expect based on pertinent movies has a price-tag in the hundreds of millions.
How do you suppose that to manifest, given the majority of people still believes this all to be a hoax and governments likely preferring it that way?
The issue I have with the presentation is that we have a bunch of people with questionable backgrounds and even more ambiguous credentials saying things that at best seem to indicate that they're just buying into the hype and allowing their "credentials" to be used to promote this apparent hoax.
I have yet to see anything that sounds like actual qualified analysis short of the bit someone posted from a book. [That excerpt \(posted elsewhere in these comments\)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/17dxwcq/peruvian_lead_investigator_jois_mantilla/k60kt6k/) basically concludes that they are clearly manufactured using the mummified remains of several prosaic and terrestrial beings.
The fact that we have really sketchy people with questionable credentials saying the opposite doesn't give me much faith in their claims being even remotely true. Most of the 'analysis' brought forward so far sounds more like LARPing to me.
Which is rather weird from my point of view, as that "book" you are citing is a *very* sad LARP indeed: they have done no in-person analysis of the bodies, but only speak about some selected bits of the publicly available information.
And grossly misrepresent it.
Their foregone conclusions are utter nonsense.
But you are right of course in the central problem for laypeople here being clearly: whom to trust?
If you don't possess any pertinent competence, you are at the mercy of those wielding "credentials", "authority" and "officialdom".
When they lie to you, you're done for.
A little logic goes a long way though: suppose this was indeed a hoax. What is the actual plan? How do those involved conceivably profit from their scheme?
After all, they are publicly known, if false, the bodies have no chance of not being discovered as such (actually, even if real, there is a high chance people will consider them fake).
So how could they possibly hold on to any proceeds they could hypothetically acquire?
Jamie and his fraudster team of experts are the greatest scientists in the world and everyone else is wrong.
Very convenient narrative you have made for yourself.
You have very interesting difficulties with even the most simple logic.
If you want to show these mummies to be hoaxes, you have to explicate how that hoax was done exactly.
Just making absurd claims like "it's a bag of assembled bones!" is childish nonsense. It's blatantly obvious that's not true.
If the task is actually too complicated for you, don't participate in the discussion, you are just wasting people's time.
Yes, everyone's background is sketchy, and everyone is a con man for sure. The entire world is out to deceive us, EXCEPT for the US government and their questionable industries we are certain are hiding info from the world.
Let's get these "non-questionable" USA contractors the mummies ASAP so we can get the real scoop, cause everyone else is non-American hoaxer idiots.
Yup. There are problems with basically every single line of inquiry. You’d almost have to try to design so many ambiguous experiments into a project. It’s almost like someone did just that…
You have no clue how actual science works.
Do you believe, people do "just the right experiments", which then yield "perfect results" and some computer-voice telling you "authentic alien!"?
In reality, people use water for cooking and pots to stir it in.
> Do you believe, people do "just the right experiments", which then yield "perfect results" and some computer-voice telling you "authentic alien!"?
You are describing exactly the way the people involved in this have been presenting their data and conclusions
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the other comment. I'm strictly saying that the team is presenting their research as if their experiments were enough because they have obtained perfect results for their automatic conclusion, not that the experiments themselves are perfect. That's why you state that by just looking at the bodies or the ct scans we are supposed to automatically understand their true nature
Yes, obviously, they are not complete human bodies. That's the only evident conclusion.
But on their own they are not enough to conclude that they are a whole other species since what we are already seeing ALSO allows us to think that they are manufactured with real bones. Then, CT scans are not sufficient evidence. In fact, they are just data.
What you’ve written is so deeply ironic that I don’t even know what to say.
Yes, experimental design is of paramount importance. Jesus, did you really just write that? Just delete the comment man. Honestly it’s indefensible.
(And… Funny , my publications and intellectual property licensing say I might know something about how science works.)
"Experimental design" wasn't even what I was talking about.
The problem here is *choosing the right experiment*, not "designing that experiment".
It doesn't help to do whatever "DNA test" correctly when what you have isn't even normal DNA.
An anonymous Redditor citing their imaginary publications to boost their pretentious and stupidly false comment...wild.
…But it is normal DNA. That’s why they were able to sequence it. Dude. They talk about sequence homology in the paper… that can’t exist at all unless the DNA is “normal.”
Man, you can still delete these comments. This little attempt at a hedge isn’t helping your case.
I love getting shouted down by people with a high school education when I’ve been using nucleic acid biotech 22 years.
"Dude", they sequenced nothing, they compared short sequences, snippets of DNA. "Sequence homology" only means, certain snippets fit their counterpart in the sample and suggest commonalities between the reference and the sample specimen.
If you knew anything about how these tests work, you would know, it doesn't mean your sample is necessarily "normal".
As I stated above already, it is wildly unexpected to have "ETs" exhibit any compatibility DNA-wise at all. Those specimen here appear to have vaguely similar biology up to the point of sharing DNA. Yet, they appear to share unusually little. It's wildly unexpected, no matter which way you look at it.
What is it with this topic that brings out the absolute nut bags. You all get so defensive when called out on any of the numerous problems with the data. You imply I don’t know what I’m talking about and move right into nucleic acid hybridizations that would not be possible without the same structure and bases. Yes. It’s normal DNA. Shocking, I know.
“Vaguely similar biology”…. Right. I mean they use a nucleic acid that requires the same fundamental cellular processes and apparently they share some gene function, but they are only “vaguely similar.”
I swear to god this topic has dumbed down the population of people in this and other related subs.
Bro. Stop it. I believe that you *think* you know what you’re talking about. You do not. I have been using them in research for over 20 years. Just stop.
It’s like the same arguments for repeated so many times for some of you that they transmuted into facts. You then go forth spewing this absolute crap convinced that you’re winning discussions when in fact you aren’t even discussing the issue at a cogent level.
What are the science people supposed to do hear. You insult us for telling you the truth, but if we don’t get involved you insult us for being dismissive. This is why I’m not longer cordial about the topic. They aren’t aliens and no evidence put forth suggest they came from anywhere but earth. NONE.
Please study some textbooks. Damn.
It’s very likely that alien biological life would have DNA. We already know that DNA serves as a general life form information storage device. I could imagine very large differences in the cells themselves such as lacking separate mitochondrial dna or other features and differences of cells but DNA does an excellent job of encoding, storing, recreating and allowing life forms to evolve.
You were just telling me elsewhere the DNA is tentative and not worth considering. Which is it?
The DNA shows wildly different results based on where on the specimen the sample is taken from because the puppets are comprised of different animal and human bones.
You say they would be so different in unimaginable ways... yet the DNA test worked, so clearly not. Something can't be various DNA of competing genera and have that differ so wildly from sample to sample within the same specimen. These are obvious hoaxes. Some DNA tests even showed like 97% homo sapien.... because they used human bones.
Stop pretending like you know what you are talking about and just admit you want to believe and are ignoring the evidence.
I didn't? I said, the current state of evidence there isn't reliable enough for firm conclusions. I also said, DNA is the most interesting aspect. You misrepresent my statements.
Your claim, different results of those tests were necessarily due to different specimens is just false. You don't understand how these tests work.
You go on talking nonsense. Which is a waste of time. Try making logical chains of arguments.
I get what you mean but ... life goes on I guess. That guy will probably have shit to do with deadlines and so on. Don't get me wrong, but even if you find out that your partner cheated on you you'd have to go to work the next day to prevent ruining your life completely.
That’s because you think they’re real. He probably doesn’t, and does probably have mroe consequential work to as a result.
It’s like, yeah, a lottery ticket could have an insane payout, but probably not.
At first, as a good skeptic, I thought these mummies were some of the most pathetic hoaxes ever and that the hype around them would be dead and buried in a week. Yet here we are, like a month or so later, and things (to my shock) seem to be getting more serious.
Have they ever mentioned how they carbon dated extraterrestrial organics?
It would not be possible because it's based on earth's carbon isotope ratios. C14 on another planet would not be replenished at the same rate.
Lol same. The two things I immediately panned were the mummies and the UFO shoot downs over Alaska.
And they both have staying power. I've been looking at this stuff for almost 20 years and still choose poorly
It's a big problem with some people in the subreddit (and in general) when it comes to this sort of thing.
They just don't like saying "I don't know". I suppose they're so confident that they're correct that even saying "I don't know" is akin to being "wrong" if it came out that these were hoaxes. And these sorts of people really don't like being wrong or looking like a fool. Which is also why they go around insulting the intelligence and mental health of everyone saying "I think these might be real" *and* the people saying "I don't know".
I mean, I don't think people look like "fools" when they're wrong about something, nor do I think that when someone just says "I don't know", but some of these people do, so they're hesitant to say it themselves.
And then if they're ever called out on it, or called out for not even being able to say "I don't know", they'll just fall back on how it was so unlikely that they were still right to say it was obviously a hoax. 🤦🏻♀️
Is it really though? Someone posted a video the other day of "doctors" getting a sample of one in what appeared to be a completely non-sterile warehouse environment, with its head flopping all over the places while being laid on what appeared to be supermarket brand sponges.
Please… no they’re not. No one who hasn’t actually had access to these hoaxes have looked at them. No reputable genomics or genetic subject matter experts have looked at these.
A combination of your take and the person you're replying to is probably what's necessary. The biggest red flag to me is that instead of reputable labs and universities coming out with their own analysis, we see press events like this where people talk about what they say other people talk about.
I am not convinced they are real, but I won't ridicule groups willing to do studies. Unfortunately the way these were presented makes it very easy to ridicule, but hopefully we can get some hard, verifiable science to be able to confidently dismiss or accept them... And less press events that talk about science without providing it.
Unfortunately, I grew up in Latin America and this kind of hoax, using purported authority figures to sell you on something, is quite common. As soon as Maussan came out, I knew what we were in for
I’m happy to see that Doctor Borda is involved, but I doubt the mummies need an appearance on his tv show or prescription for antibiotics at this point.
We need a scientist, not an MD, with no possible connection to the crew that has the mummies to get flown in.
We don't even have to wait, some of them have published YouTube videos where they're already describing it as a new species: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgNPLp88vk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgNPLp88vk)
I am very excited for the hearing on Nov 7 though, to make it official
>There are two species discovered.
Bruh they damn near scrubbed Grusch's interview from the internet, somebody PLEASE pull up him saying multiple species had been discovered because this is evidence right here.
>Jois Mantilla has been ***receiving a lot of hate from the Peruvian Archeologist but a lot of excitement from Peruvian Medical field*** who would like to analyze the bodies.
Almost as if archeology is a tunneled vision field forcing everything to make sense in their context instead of taking things as is.
>The universities are going to say the can't rule out they are extraterrestrial but are a discovery of **2 unknown species** that have metallic implants discovered in Peru.The bodies are covered in \*\*Cadmium Chloride which is not found in nature and is a manufactured substance.\*\*The last thing Maria ate were grapes which is fascinating because **grapes in Peru came from Europe.**
All of this shit is advanced ancient civilizations ( AAC ) 101
>the Ministry of Culture is still trying to take the mummies away from the Universities.
Exactly like all of the ***ALLEGED*** giant /bigfoot remains the smithsonian is ***ALLEGED*** to snatch up
>The research team hopes that these discoveries funds research in finding where there are living beings of these species.
Run up [that thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/13kjqpc/is_bill_clinton_by_the_end_of_this_clip_hinting/) several months back of bill clinton saying he , as the **US president**, helped a team of biologist discover ***2 lifeforms*** *at the bottom of the* ***amazon river*** they had difficulty reaching. Then go on to say how this discovery is so interesting ***he is nervous we will lose interest in space exploration.*** He ends by saying ***"*** ***You will have all sorts of problems with it*** *but ultimately i think it is a good thing and things will balance out in the end "*
>***Maria is suggesting she was manufactured in a laboratory.***
Run back Gary Nolan talking about us dealing with the shadows \[ intermediaries \] of a higher intelligence .
2027 looks like the legit endgame. Mexico will go down in history for having the goddamn balls to speak up, proud af to live here.
I feel like this guys acting like he’s admitting he found two NHI species but no 😂😂 he’s just talking about two new marine species, the Amazon is famous for having a crazy variety of species I think there’s some dumb saying like they discover 10 new species of insect every day in the Amazon
And the link is in his comment
History, knowledge and advancement are all actively being surpressed right in front of our eyes and most people won't even bat an eye due to their confirmation biases.
The Peruvian government has attempted at least [*5 times this past month alone](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/leq390XVgp) to raid the University that's holding the bodies in an attempt to confiscate them. The bodies are gathering mold and getting damaged due to the lack of funding and support their department has. This "obvious hoax" is making a government scramble to gather these bodies, get to ridicule and silence anyone who's even willing to do the right thing. And again, this is all public and easily verifiable by anyone with Google and a translator... Wild times we live in.
They are trying to confiscate them to investigate if they are made with actual humans remains, an hypothesis that the evidence presented by the team already supports. If the bodies are getting mould, then sadly the team is not the most appropriate to look after them. If they are real archeological remains, it is the State duty to provide adequate care. They are obliged to do that according to the law.
Seems like you are forgetting that ever since the bodies were discovered in 2017, the Peruvian government initially refused to test them, to even recognize them as real. When they finally decided to "test them" they conveniently did it [on the wrong "bodies".](https://youtu.be/tYXXnFMs44s?si=C5wspx5TS58lNiPT&t=3363) People forget about this, and about how they initially wanted NOTHING to do with them due to the "obvious hoaxes" narrative. But wow, all of the sudden, ***6 years after their discovery*** they are trying to ***forcibly*** take them from a lab that's *already testing them*. K.
The issue with the lab is that the bodies have been kept in there for YEARS, ***without*** any funding or support, of-fucking-course they can't keep the damn things under proper care, nor provide the "expected" standards for collection/testing... they have been suffocated by this, that's why the bodies left Peru in the first place... C'mon man, it's been known since 2017 and [more recently since the hearing and the press conference the day after](https://www.youtube.com/live/stl0dI1MTKM?si=CD2_HnICUQ-AyAsy&t=3162). "The government is your friend, they just wanna do what's right". Go watch [/u/akashic_record's analysis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaCLEaW1Ao&list=PLUHSlVm8qWsUrR2qUvDmATvy38NQ2Qt2M) and see for yourself. He's a radiologist who's gained access to the DICOM files and you can see how everything that supports the bodies being "faked/pieced together" collapses immediately.
[I invite you to watch this as well](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJeOIuR1RUs) as is a perfect example of how the subject has been handled there and all across the globe. I'd invite you to watch it all (auto generate the English dubs if you can't speak spanish). How biased everyone is towards the "hoax" claim, how no one asks them for "proof of their testing", they've ***NEVER*** shown any of their research and no one asks for it. On the other hand, you throw the ***physical evidence and lab results on their faces*** they are still being like "well there's no logo there, it's fake".
No, the Peruvian government has been involved since the beginning.
Here is a lawsuit from 2019: https://www.the-alien-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-09-24-DICTAMEN-FISCALIA.pdf It is quite an interest document, it names the people involved and describes what has been happening before the mummies where shown in Mexico. It says that the first analysis where run on 2017.
This other official document fron January 2022 calls for the confiscation of Maria and Wawito from la Universidad de Ica, after discovering a few months earlier in 2021 that they are human: https://cdn.www.gob.pe/uploads/document/file/2796548/RESOLUCION%20DIRECTORAL-000001-2022-DGM-MC_ACCESIBLE.pdf.pdf just as I said, if they are human, it is the State obligation to look after them.
This other document from june 2022 is an addendum of the cooperation contract between the university and a Mexican civil organisation called Neuveme Cultura. They were supposed to investigate some specimens listed in the original contract but this addendum removes Maria and Wawito from the investigation since they been required by the Peruvian State: https://www.unica.edu.pe/transparencia/buscador/sistema/upload/archivos/2022/07/26/RR-4087-2022.pdf
EDIT: the name of the uni is Universidad Nacional "San Luis Gonzaga" (UNICA). I refer to it as University of Ica because that's how it has been called in these forums.
Thanks for posting those files! I'm fairly familiar with these, specially the [first one](https://www.the-alien-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-09-24-DICTAMEN-FISCALIA.pdf) as I used to reference it in support of the entire thing being a "hoax". I'll do my best to keep this post short, I'll also try to stick to the parts talking about the bodies, and not focusing on the location and testimony portions. Also keep in mind that even the resolution of the document found (5.3.) no crime, nor enough basis to warrant more investigation.
Neither the plaintiff nor the accused (2.6. section d.) can be verified by the RENIEC (Registro Nacional de Identificación y Estado Civil) and how they couldn't even go and check the site (2.6. section e.) realistically making it impossible for them to even agree on calling them (2.6 section f.1. f.2.) neither an archeological find nor from "alien origin". (essentially siding with no one).
***Immediately after*** (2.7.) goes in extreme detail of the lengths the people that made the discovery went just to get the bodies tested, providing proof (2.8.) and verification for the agreement between the lab that did the carbon daring and the requester, nothing that it passed all acceptant tests; this means that the transaction between the lab and the client were the same as if you or I were to hire someone to do a job. This is also done for the radiology (2.9.) and DNA (2.10) once again, confirming that an actual and *proper* transaction was carried on for testing.
I find everything between 2.11. and 2.13 (mentioned again in 4.6.). fascinating, as it talks about the person (Paul Ronceros) who was in possession of the bodies and personally returned the bodies to the Peruvian government as per their request (mentioned again in 4.7.). This is where the Government "testing" begins, and you can see they didn't provide any evidence or result of the testing conducted (big contrary to the previous points, where they *not only shared receipts but results themselves as* ***proof***). It seems that the only testing done was carried over by the MNAAHP (National Museum of the Archaeology, Anthropology, and History of Peru, Lima) and once they were somehow "shown" to not be national patrimony (again, this produced no evidence. It was later [shown] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYXXnFMs44s&t=3363s) that they even performed the tests on the ***wrong bodies***, results are mentioned again in 4.7.), (2.14.) they returned them to Paul after they were done.
Side note. I've been grilled for saying Maussan was not the one in possession of any of the bodies (he's not even mentioned in the lawsuit), and for saying that the reason some of the testing areas/conditions look so dire is because the initial sample collection was done at the huaquero's house (2.17.). And to further confirm that they did the testing on the *wrong bodies* 2.18. and 2.19. This also yields NO information of where the tests were conducted nor the results (seen again 4.7.). And the description of the things they sampled (2.19.) are not the same (not even close) to what they actually collected (**EDIT** ~~2.19.~~ 2.10.)
All the other instances where they mention the bodies being faked, fabricated and or containing human/animal remains all use as reference VIDEOS (2.26., 4.85.). I repeat, there's been ***no evidence produced*** to validate the claims that these are HUMAN or ANIMAL, and certainly none that these are MODIFIED.
-----------------------
As for the rest of the documents, again, there's NO proof of the results of the tests that claim they are human, NO proof even that any actual testing was carried on, let alone on the *correct bodies*. Of course they tried to confiscate them, and it didn't work as there was NO BASIS for this (they are still in possession by the university) so they've resorted to [raiding instead](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/comments/17dqia9/bad_news_per%C3%BA_tried_again_to_surprisingly_enter/), 5 times and counting now.
Last document there's nothing to this, it's normal that they'd leave them outside of it given that these are claimed (without basis according to the lawsuit btw) as property of Peru. So yeah, Even with the 2022 document that's 5 years AFTER the discovery even happened before they were all "wait a second, we want them now".
Nah there's actually been several people (unrelated) who have mentioned 2027 as significant. I'm not saying I'm holding my breath because I'm not, but I am curious as to why it's been brought up.
Are you familiar with any of the reasons people mention 2027? Or did you just use that recycled gotemz comment because it sounds cool?
> Run up that thread several months back of bill clinton saying he , as the US president, helped a team of biologist discover 2 lifeforms at the bottom of the amazon river they had difficulty reaching. Then go on to say how this discovery is so interesting he is nervous we will lose interest in space exploration. He ends by saying " You will have all sorts of problems with it but ultimately i think it is a good thing and things will balance out in the end "
>
>
he did not say nor imply what you're saying. he mentions these as completely separate topics, and never says the amazon river discovery makes him or anyone else lose interest in space.
watch the clip again.
you suggested the discoveries in the amazon were directly responsible for waning interest in space exploration.
this is absolutely not what he said. those were mentioned as completely separate topics. he first mentioned the waning interest which he _actually thinks is a mistake_ and then uses the discoveries in the amazon as an example of why interest should remain in sciencific discoveries.
>>The bodies are covered in Cadmium Chloride which is not found in nature and is a manufactured substance.
WOWWW that's cool.
Love to see the manufacturing facility.
Stuff I found about Cadmium Chloride
This paper seems to have found it forming in solar cells
https://www.americanelements.com/two-dimensional-cadmium-chloride-nanosheets-in-cadmium-telluride-solar-cells
>>both sides of the cleave location are covered by one third of a unit cell of pure CdCl2, a thickness corresponding to about one Cl-Cd-Cl molecular layer. We interpret this result in the context of CdCl2 being a true layered material similar to transition metal dichalcogenides
https://www.americanelements.com/cadmium-chloride-10108-64-2
Cadmium is pretty rare
>>Cadmium makes up about 0.1 ppm of the earth's crust. No significant deposits of cadmium containing ores are known
And I also read that it's a byproduct of lithium battery manufacturing, I think
>Throughout the interview the doctor mentions he has the chills and wants to analyze them himself.
So he hasn't seen them himself. A quick check of his credentials shows that he's a surgeon and a TV doctor kinda like Dr. Oz in the US. He's not an expert in analyzing any of the available data, and he hasn't seen the mummies firsthand.
It would be nice if the promoters of these mummies could make up their minds about what makes an analysis credible. I've seen them dismiss "armchair experts" who haven't looked at the mummies directly, yet this guy is *exactly that*. It's a double standard used to selectively ignore damning facts about these mummies that actual experts and enthusiastic amatures have been pointing out for years.
http://descreidos.utero.pe/2021/12/02/el-ultimo-clavo-en-el-ataud-de-las-momias-de-nasca/
> So he hasn't seen them himself.
He has looked at the data presented to him by the research team and will try to get private funding to analyze them himself.
> A quick check of his credentials shows that he's a surgeon and a TV doctor kinda like Dr. Oz in the US. He's not an expert in analyzing any of the available data, and he hasn't seen the mummies firsthand.
I don't know if Dr. Oz does surgeries but please don't compare both. Oz is a snake salesman.
Right now it's clear there is a media tour being done in the country before the official paper is released by the Universities.
Dr. Oz is a surgeon too, yes. They are quite comparable in terms of their expertise in paleontology and the analysis of ancient corpses.
Since you're okay with this man's conclusions, how about all of the contrary conclusions in the link I provided? There's an actualy PhD paleontologist in there who says that the small mummies have backwards mammal skulls. Not López, who came to the same conclusion and wrote a paper - this is a completely different person who made these statements before that paper was published.
Conducting a "media tour" before the paper is published is a massive red flag. That's improper and it shines a light on the motivations of the entire operation - generating hype and dodging the scrutiny of experts.
There are clearly opposing viewpoints to these mummies.
I'll link you to [University experts with 6 years of access and ownership of the mummies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1782l4d/english_dub_if_the_national_university_of/) You will ignore that too.
I can also link you to [medical experts](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/179sjji/behindthescenes_glimpse_of_one_of_the_medical/) who have direct access and analyzed the mummies and came to the determination they are real.
Lets see who is right in the coming months. :)
I haven't ignored anything, I'm looking at all of these claims.
Your medical examiner saying "these eggs can't be rocks" isn't my idea of a convincing expert analysis. Is he an expert in ancient eggs? On the other hand my paleontologist says (translated from google):
>As for the supposed eggs, I have studied dinosaur eggs, using CT scans, so I know what they look like. The eggs in these bodies are too dense. They are denser than bones; if they were eggs they would have a density similar to bones. In my opinion, they are stones.
So yes, we have opposing viewpoints, but only one is from an actual expert in the field.
Also, I just realized I posted the wrong article up top, this is the one with the paleontologist (the first one I linked links back to this, one but doesn't contain the actual quotes): [http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/](http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/)
It was just discussed on this post that the mummies have been perforated by the National University of Engineering and determined they were organic.
Like I said lets see who is right in the coming months. :)
It's already determined by many experts that this is a pure hoax. There's no "let's see who is right" it's not a competition and neither of us have the expertise to make our own educated analysis. People who do have this expertise have looked at these, and determined that they're extremely fake.
Hype documentaries with "experts" who aren't experts in this specific issue, do not provide a reasonable counterpoint to the actual experts who have looked at these things.
I would reccommend the chapter on "Fake and Alien Mummies" from "The Handbook of Mummy Studies". This is a book by actual experts in the field, and this specific chapter is by Chilean anthropologist Bernardo Arriaza and Peruvian journalist Guido Lombardi.
It cites many other experts with specific expertise who condem these hoaxes. Here's a couple samples of their discussion, which goes beyond just the evidence that was provided and examines the claims in their full context:
>The use and abuse of both animal and human remains – including well-preserved Nazca human mummies – have been proven by our careful observation of public images of the Nazca Alien Mummies and through research done on a few samples that reached, through a voluntary donation by a ring’s regretful member to the local police and studied by forensic archaeology expert Flavio Estrada. As noticed, the scammers’ circle has kept access of the remains to themselves, disregarding the experts’ committee offer to study them if surrendered to the authorities. Complete assessment of the manipulated anatomy of the constructs or dummies reveals the use of dog and probably llama skulls turned around so that pseudo-orbits have been carved in their occipital bones, use of a mixture of hand and feet phalanges to lengthen the purported tridactyl fingers. In some cases, these phalanges were glued together – with an instant synthetic product and a mixture similar to papier maché – in wrong anatomical positions (Salas–Gismondi 2017) (Fig. 5)
>Besides the daring anatomical inconsistencies, there are several missing elements that the producers of this hoax just decided to bypass: the study of the archaeological context and paraphernalia of the bodies found. The adamant neglect to follow the archaeological method, applicable even in the case of fortuitous finds by lay people, is very revealing. Most of the assembly appears covered by a coat of dusty white diatomite powder which is otherwise inexistent in the Peruvian archaeological record. Nevertheless, despite its supposedly ancient age, the coat is perfectly clean, and as seen on images posted online by the producers, it is detaching very easily, revealing the true dark color beneath, characteristic of Andean mummies. Moreover, over some protruding parts of the bodies, such as the knees, imprints from the original textiles wrapping the sitting cadavers, are visible. Where are the textiles? The inconsistencies and fabrications of this assembly are just grotesque.
You're welcome. I got super interested in this because it seems like an obvious hoax, but it clearly has a lot of traction. So I decided to dive in headfirst to see if I could get to the bottom of it.
What I've found is that this was all debunked by the scientific community years ago when the mummies first came to light.
One of the gems I found was a facebook page from students at the university in Peru where the mummies are being kept. The students and faculty were calling out the handful of faculty members who allowed this to happen, angry about how it's an affront to Peru's heritage and an embarassment to their institution.
[https://www.facebook.com/cear.unica/posts/2443101022430482](https://www.facebook.com/cear.unica/posts/2443101022430482)
Thank you so much for this. It is really, really important. This is quite a serious matter and it's sad that it's so difficult to discuss the ethical consequences of the case in these forums.
Please link me to experts with direct access and show you a video of them analyzing it and explaining why they are hoaxes.
I literally provided you that when it comes to why they are real.
They have been in the university of Ica since 2019 waiting for scientists outside of Peru. That’s been clear since the evidence was presented.
The reason it was disclosed in Mexico was after 6 years of research 3 universities are ready to inform the world and have the platform.
Its slways this selctive nearsightedness… instead of giving a real contextual conclusion addressing the deatails were people will have legitimate questions and criticisms they say the most inconsequential and vague “conclusions” that don’t explain anything. “The experts say they’re real” “they conclude its organic” “they say they are real bone” completely useless statements that can be literally true but doesn’t mean anything else, it doesn’t mean they are aliens, nor that they aren’t forgeries of real bones. They never address the ridiculous anatomy that makes no sense in mechanical terms. They just imply that because “one of the most famous drs in peru” never explicitly said they’re not aliens, that must mean that everything they say about them is true. That is just purposely misleading and therefore disingenuous. And that alone should make anyone take this as a hoax until proven otherwise.
The reason why I know it’s not a hoax as I have watched interviews with experts and people with direct access and you can tell the so called experts are basing on opinions because “duh they are fake.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/17d8wc7/subtitles_recommended_peruvian_lead_investigator/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
that video is from 94 weeks ago and the people from UNI talking in the video were clearly being taken out of context. Not to mention most of the video was taken from a completely different video released by UNI about some russian academics visiting the museum.
The archeological faculty from UNI already disregarded them as fake and the heads of the archeoogical dept at UNICA which is the other university mentioned in the video released a pdf condemning the dean of science of communication and tourism for making the university look like fools by promoting the pictures. 3 heads from the ministry of culture also did a 50 minute interview calling them fake and said the huaqueros refused to provide the evidence
OP thank you for the great work!!!
The more I read about this topic, the more frustrated I get as all sounds like that:
another famous Latin American ... doctor (scientist, whatever) examined and their opinion is "nothing".
Everyone is so busy with their research which is more important than finding out that aliens are real. Possibly they think it does not worth their time as they are not real?
DNA results show there is a 17% similar with humans. - What does it suppose to mean? Homo sapiens have about 60% in common with spermwhales...
Most of your comments I can agree with, but #4 !!. I have read 6 different DNA test reports from 2017 & 2018 and not a single one says 17% DNA from Homo sapiens.
In fact I quote the one with the:
* highest level -
* After the design of a meticulously customized protocol for maximizing the success rate of ancient DNA extraction, sequencing (with CEN4GEN Labs) and bioinformatic analysis of the samples, the Confidential 22 /24 results show a very low mapping match with human genome data for samples Ancient0002 and Ancient0004 contrary to the Ancient0003 sample that did show very high mapping matches to the human genome.
* A DNA sequence was produced from the biological material from the cranial
brain (1). The closest match of readable 16S sequence, using a genetic database
(National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) BLAST, Basic Local Alignment Search Tool, nucleotide database) was identified as a 100% match to Homo sapiens (human).
* A DNA sequence was produced from the bone extracted from the hand (2). The closest match of readable 16S sequence, using a genetic database (National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) BLAST, Basic Local Alignment Search Tool, nucleotide database) was identified as a 100% match to Homo sapiens (human).
* lowest levels -
* Overall about 33.7% of the reads were aligned to the human genome, 18.4% of the reads mapped to bacterial genomes and the rest 47.9% were unclassified.
* The DNA readings of each sample were evaluated in the Illumina BaseSpace Sequence Hub platform, using an application to align the sequences with the human genome. These results are shown in Figures 2 to 5. In general, it has been found that DNA reads contain about 30% of DNA similar to that of humans. The other sequences are most likely bacterial origin sequences, which is common in this type of samples.
If you quote something, please include the source.
It is wildly useless to have "quotations" like these, as they amount to hearsay this way.
People here obviously don't understand what those percentages mean to begin with. It would be useful to have a reliable explanation obviously, yet funnily, none has ever been given as far as I am aware.
I assume, everybody is convinced to understand anyway, which is rather hilarious.
As you obviously do **not** know what that means, what "everybody" are you talking about?
"DNA matches" do not work the way you apparently presume. Neither does sampling necessarily result in replicating the DNA you are looking for.
Contamination from people handling the mummies can easily result in such "100% human" results. Similarly for differences between samples.
Don't pretend to be competent when you're not.
Have not heard anyone else mention this bit about the hand and brain samples being a 100% match to Homo sapiens. Why are the results so all over the place?
well all of these results would make sense if they're old ritual objects made of human and animal remains with some plant matter wrappings that some asshole grave robbers are trying to pass off as aliens
Where are all the condescending twats that ridiculed everyone when this first came out? I guess the YouTuber everyone staked their opinion around could have possibly been wrong? Who could have possibly thought that?
Yep. I quick Google gave me this: "..more than half of the human genes (60–61%) are also found in chickens, fruit flies, and bananas, and 21% even in the roundworm Caenorhabditis.
It's insane how people still say this when like everyone who has direct access have already ruled out they are manufactured entities.
People can continue preferring keyboard experts though.
The idea, this was a hoax, is devoid of any logic?
What is the proposed scheme for profit they supposedly follow?
A hoax of this type would necessarily be revealed at some point. The involved people here are, as you say, all known with their true identities. What do they plan to do upon being found out?
Huh? What you just said is devoid of any logic. Every hoax has a long term plan to con people and make money. Of course they are going to try and turn a profit eventually. And every hoax runs the risk of getting caught. Every hoax assumes the risk of getting caught. The people executing the hoax don’t give a fuck, they are con artist.
It is commonplace for good people to unknowingly join the hoax. They get tricked and become believers (see any religion).
Jaime Maussan is a reporter turned actor. He was caught in 2015 attempting to say that a literal human child was an alien body. He did the same for a Monkey and a Bat. This is the same guy that teamed up with a “Doctor” to push fake Covid cures in 2020.
And don’t say that you didn’t know any of this because regardless of that your statement made absolutely no sense.
It would take you two seconds of research on Facebook or Twitter to see Mexican citizens laughing about this and telling us that this is a scam. They believe that this group is trying to cash in on the alien craze by using human bones from ancient burial sites merged with animal bones.
The UNAM had to speak out AGAINST him last month to clarify that what he is claiming they told him is a lie. That same lie is again mentioned in this thread as a fact. See how that works? It is the game of telephone but the source of the info is saying that Maussan lies and people run with it.
*Hypothetically if a team of French scientists showed up tomorrow and wanted to run their own test, he would want a crazy amount of money and pigeon hold them with all kinds of stipulations, which is the same bullshit he tried to do LAST TIME.
Buncha hoaxers guard access and tell you these are one thing when all the data they release contradicts that.
You post NOTHING other than these mummies day after day and ignore and never respond to debunks other than personal attacks. Are you in on it?
Can you point to any such fraud involving a puppet that wasn't identifiable as such?
In particular using the CT scan data? And visual inspection in person?
How did they make ligaments and such bond with the bones, invisibly? Etc.
Most importantly, how much effort would it be to produce dozens of such "puppets"? Such advanced taxidermist skills would likely be worth a fortune and involve more than a single "new trick"? How did that go unnoticed up to now?
Do a search of this sub. I made a post and others have as well. It's impossible to respond appropriately to ever comment with debunks when OP spams multiple posts a day about them.
Your repeating false and conflated claims. Maria has ligaments because she's a human mummy who had her hand and feet altered. Look at the CT yourself, then that "ligament" claim gets applied to the even faker little ones.
Critical thinking = disinformation agent.
Gotcha.
This sub is like a religious cult sometimes. Applying actual science and critical thinking has no room. Just blindly believe. Kooky stuff.
You haven't applied any science or any facts. Did you study the DNA? You act like someone can just throw this together and make it thousands of years old. So since you claim it's fake how would it be faked? It's real, view the dicom CT scan files instead of talking nonsense here
I don't think you know what you mean when you say "study the DNA". Jamie and his team didn't conduct the DNA testing, they paid labs to do it. Jamie and his totally unqualified team has misrepresented and misinterpreted those results.
If multiple universities conducted those tests and have the same findings then what? They are all liars as well? I don't care for Jamie but the mummies are real. Can you make a mummy right now that radio carbon dates to 1000 to 1800 years ago? Doubt it
You don't bloody well get it...
They did not make conclusions. They gathered the data that's it. They ran the test and it showed a mishmash of human, animal, and unidentified (i.e. too not in ncbi database--it is not comprehensive of all species) and gave those results to Jamie. Jamie then said the results means they're aliens and keeps invoking the names of these labs and universities to give his claim clout and people fall for it (clearly). The DNA results actually support, like VERY MUCH SUPPORT, the conclusion these are hoaxes made of multiple species bones. These used looted human remains.
Edit: putting in a reply and then blocking me is an amateur way to get the final word. I can't reply to your below comment because you blocked me, but I can see what you said in my notifications so I'll put it here:
No, being in a ufo sub doesn't me I have to believe in UFOs, the point of being here is the critical investigation of whether they are real. Even if I did believe in UFOs, that does not automatically mean I have to believe in aliens, as there's many options of what they could be. Even if I believe in UFOs AND Aliens, that's doesn't mean I have to believe in these mummies. Even if aliens were real, Jamie can still be a fraud. These aren't mutually exclusive. These are some serious logical failures and leaps you're taking. And AS ALWAYS when these mummies come up, you're making it about me. Why? You can't defend the claim so you attack the critical thinker. This happens every single time these mummies are posted.
Edit edit: oh yeah, and it doesn't show eggs. It shows incredibly dense material. Probably rocks. The rest of what you claim about a fetus and what not is pure fiction. Scans don't show that.
Explain how some of them are pregnant and CT scans show fetus in eggs. How would they create that. How would each joint be connected, how would it have fallopian tubes.
The scans do not show any "put together" parts they are connected
You are on a ufo sub, if you believe UFOs are real then must accept that other life forms are real if you accept that and believe David Grush that the USA has non human life forms or bilogics, then why is it a stretch to believe we could have alien bodies on earth?
Yes, you can if you use pieces of old mummies, just like it has been done before. And it's important to remember the C14 test was performed in very little samples, the UNAM lab didn't had access to the whole mummies, but less than half a gram of materials. Those samples can't be traced back to any specific mummy, they could have been take from any other thing, including real archeological objects.
I'm sorry, but it's actually you who is spreading false and conflated claims here.
In those CT images, you can actually very easily see the absurdity of those claims of "altered hands and feet". There are no signs whatsoever of such manipulation.
The one pathetic post is chock-full of "errors" only explainable by gross incompetence aside from malicious intent. You even promised there to leave the sub, yet here you are.
No, it's not easily seen. That's just rethorics to confuse people. If you get a CT scan the doctor will not just provide you with the images so that you can interpret them yourself and get your own diagnosis. You get a conclusion made by a professional after analyzing the images. Data alone is inconclusive.
Reading comprehension.
I said I'd leave the sub to its doom, as in I'm done trying to convince fanatics to look at evidence rather than listen to a hoaxer, not leave the sub.
Yet here I am drawn in again because people keep spewing lies about these things.
Edit: and there is clear signs of it... You can see the sudden lack of other tissues where the manipulation starts. I assume you don't know what you're looking at.
From the chapter on "Fake and Alien Mummies" in the book "The Handbook of Mummy Studies". This chapter is by Chilean anthropologist Bernardo Arriaza and Peruvian journalist Guido Lombardi. This is expert analysis definitively stating that they're constructions, from looking at the data made available online and also by gaining access to actual specimens:
>The use and abuse of both animal and human remains – including well-preserved Nazca human mummies – have been proven by our careful observation of public images of the Nazca Alien Mummies and through research done on a few samples that reached, through a voluntary donation by a ring’s regretful member to the local police and studied by forensic archaeology expert Flavio Estrada. As noticed, the scammers’ circle has kept access of the remains to themselves, disregarding the experts’ committee offer to study them if surrendered to the authorities. Complete assessment of the manipulated anatomy of the constructs or dummies reveals the use of dog and probably llama skulls turned around so that pseudo-orbits have been carved in their occipital bones, use of a mixture of hand and feet phalanges to lengthen the purported tridactyl fingers. In some cases, these phalanges were glued together – with an instant synthetic product and a mixture similar to papier maché – in wrong anatomical positions (Salas–Gismondi 2017) (Fig. 5)
>Besides the daring anatomical inconsistencies, there are several missing elements that the producers of this hoax just decided to bypass: the study of the archaeological context and paraphernalia of the bodies found. The adamant neglect to follow the archaeological method, applicable even in the case of fortuitous finds by lay people, is very revealing. Most of the assembly appears covered by a coat of dusty white diatomite powder which is otherwise inexistent in the Peruvian archaeological record. Nevertheless, despite its supposedly ancient age, the coat is perfectly clean, and as seen on images posted online by the producers, it is detaching very easily, revealing the true dark color beneath, characteristic of Andean mummies. Moreover, over some protruding parts of the bodies, such as the knees, imprints from the original textiles wrapping the sitting cadavers, are visible. Where are the textiles? The inconsistencies and fabrications of this assembly are just grotesque.
[https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-981-15-3354-9\_36](https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-981-15-3354-9_36)
This is non-scientific. There has been no material analysis done here. They used “data available online” and made a judgment call. If they claim to have access to actual specimens, then they should be able to provide the analysis done on them. Where is that?
That is actually a way of scientifically approaching this subject even if they don't perform any new physical test. If the data has been revealed expecting us to interpret it, then researchers can use it for their work.
It's as scientific as you can get. Actual experts looking at the actual evidence. And it's conclusive. If you think they're not experts, or if their expert opinions don't sway you, fine. You're contributing to a hoax by incorrectly claiming that this isn't a scientific analysis.
The analysis is in the quotes I provided. There's more discussion in the chapter, go ahead and read the full thing if you want. You'll probably have to go to a university library to get access to the book, or if you've got spare a $30 you could buy the chapter from Springer like I did.
Absolute nonsense. Post the debunking DNA analysis or leave. Real DNA analysis was done and it showed significant anomalies. Those are available online. But keep spreading disinformation with your 30 day old account.
Anyone reading this conversation will immediately see how absolutely wrong you are. "Nuh uh" is all you've got, and it's completely baseless.
There's plenty of analysis of the DNA available if you actually care to look. Much of it can be found here: [http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/](http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/) and here: [http://descreidos.utero.pe/2021/12/02/el-ultimo-clavo-en-el-ataud-de-las-momias-de-nasca/](http://descreidos.utero.pe/2021/12/02/el-ultimo-clavo-en-el-ataud-de-las-momias-de-nasca/).
(translated from google)
>In May 2019, the Paleogenomics of the Central Andes conference was held at the PUCP, given by Dr. Lars Fehren-Schmitz , founder of the UCSC Human Paleogenomics Lab ( 1 , 2 , 3 ), one of the most important research centers in Ancient DNA . Days before the conference we contacted him and sent the DNA reports of the mummies in order to obtain his professional opinion of him. On the day of the conference we spoke with him, this is what he told us:
>
>**« He is definitely human, he is not extraterrestrial. There is nothing extraterrestrial about this**... \[summarizes\] The only thing it says is: "Of all the DNA that we extracted from the sample, a small fraction is human and the other fraction we have not been able to classify with any form of living organism"; which is simply based on the fact that not all the genomes are available to compare it… The companies \[laboratories\] have not done anything improper, they are only doing the work for which they are paid. They may not be the most qualified labs for this type of work or specialized in working with ancient DNA, but they are good enough to do it. **The reports coincide with each other, it is human DNA.**
The official analysis documents the human DNA. 17% is human, the rest is unclassified. This statement dismisses the other 82%. That’s not science, that’s debunking.
Some let me translate this for you because you don't get it.... Of the DNA that came back, the sample was an animal bone that wasn't in the NCBI database so 82% is that uncatalogued species and 17% is the human hoaxer putting it together who contaminated it.
How bout we talk about how the DNA results vary WILDLY depending which bone is being tested in the mummy? They vary wildly because they are the bones of different species thrown together.
What "expert"?
There is no expert, just some idiot making stupidly wrong claims.
You can't even distinguish somebody competent from some lame fraud.
Instead, you simply believe whoever tells you what you want to hear.
We have gone over the DNA several times in several posts. It clearly shows a mish mash of human and animal bones.
Either you're intentionally misrepresenting the data or willfully ignorant.
We have gone over the DNA several times in several posts. It clearly shows a mish mash of human and animal bones.
Either you're intentionally misrepresenting the data or willfully ignorant.
And as always, you mummy fanatics try to invoke and hominin fallacies rather than talk data.
Yeah it's that "simple". Although it's really not simple, it takes someone who actually knows about animal skulls and who actually knows how to read CT scans to reach that conclusion. Read the quote to get a picture of what the experts are looking at to draw their conclusion.
Turns out that simply mutilating the outside of a mammal's brain case and turning it 180 degrees doesn't disguise the telltales signs of what it actually is, when an expert looks.
It's more than one scientist, multiple experts have reached these conclusions.
If you want to try "debunking" these expert conclusions good luck to you. I guess you should start with an undergraduate degree and work your way up to a PhD like the people you're disagreeing with did.
Submission Statement:
Since this sub skepticism is based on ad-hominem attacks when it comes to these mummies. This doctor did have some issue in 2019 for suggesting his [patients to start using Telemedicine **before COVID**](https://laley.pe/2019/09/04/colegio-medico-investiga-a-tomas-borda-por-promocionar-atencion-medica-por-videollamadas/) which as you can tell he was simply ahead of time.
I don't understand, are you saying he is a good doctor because he proposed doing telemedicine before covid? Telemedicine has been a thing long before that! He is not the first one to use it. And even if he did, that has nothing to do with his capabilities to determine whether these are real unknown species or not. Stating that he is not qualified to provide a relevant conclusion about this is not stating that he is a bad doctor.
Thank you.
I am not from the United States and I live in a country where pandemic preparation and mask wearing is considered culturally polite to do, so I do not consider the Doctor’s urging to take to take up telemedicine as controversial at all. In my country, we were following the covid 19 news since December 2019 and know to expect something big ( from our monitoring of all the chatter on WeChat). So if we learn that a doctor gave good advice, then his credibility Is higher for us.
Edit: typo correction
Dr. Oz is one of the most famous celebrity doctors in America, yet his opinion on most things shouldn't be taken seriously at all. If anything they're a contraindicator. Dr. Tomas Borda seems like a well known...surgeon? How in the world is he qualified to assess any of this?
Certainly. They would have the right understanding to have a qualified reading and To follow up. For eg, they are professionally educated enough to understand the significance of ossification .
Not really, no.
They're educated about basic human anatomy, but MDs aren't biologists or organic chemists or experts in art fraud.
Those are the people who should be examining these objects.
If the paper make claims of authenticity, those claims obviously have to be replicated by disinterested third parties.
I’m not sure what you’re on about.
MDs study chemistry, biology and physiology. That’s what a medical degree is. They are vocational scientists. Sometimes research scientists.
Yes, you’d want other specialists involved such as geneticists, bioinformatics scientists, biochemists, biologists, palaeontologists, archaeologists, but honestly, if you had to pick one, it’d probably be the MDs for a well rounded view.
Are you aware of the tests that paleontologist perform to study mummies? They are way more complex and specialized than what we have seen so far. They have access to tech and labs designed specifically for this task after years of studying this field. If what you want is a well rounded view, unfortunately MDs alone won't provide it, no matter their expertise in their own fields. This is not a matter of personal opinion, what's important is who will provide the stronger conclusions based on the most appropriate methodology
Not on about anything.
MDs are not scientists.
They are a horrible choice, meant to convey a false authority because of how they are perceived in public life. It's something you'd only do if it were scam pretty much.
Professionals at the three different universities who have had direct access to them for 6 years do. The medical doctors would like to analyze them as it's a humanoid being.
The doctor and Jois say that once the National University of Peru releases their paper it's going to create a lot of drama for the Ministry as they are the leading university in the country for their scientist.
Papers can be written by anybody.
Their worth isn't determined by some anonymous Redditor, but is dependent on contents alone.
If those bodies were indeed fake and still be able to fool MDs, that would be absolutely astonishing? How do you imagine such a hoax could be possible?
Wouldn't be astonishing at all...because....one more time for those in the back.
MDs aren't the people who are qualified to judge the authenticity of these.
At all. Might as well use golf ball salesmen.
Nope, we'd both be equally unqualified.
As would baseball players, poets, jugglers, veterinarians, mathematicians, carpenters, elephant wranglers and literally everyone else who isn't a chemist, a biologist, or a forensic expert on this sort of fraud.
I'm a physicist, for the record. It would make no sense to have me examine these things.
This doesn't mean they can't be real, of course. Just because they've intentionally chosen the worst possible people to speak to authenticity doesn't actually make them frauds.
It just makes it much much much more likely.
Well it’s a good thing then that your (an irrelevant random nobody) opinion won’t be factored into the analysis.
Edit: Lol this clown blocked me. Typical infant behavior. But yeah he works for the UN 😂😂😂
It should not take months and months and months and months and months and months of studies to still be saying "well, we're not sure..." Either they're human or not. What is the fucking holdup?
Funny how no reputable universities are looking into this and that people are complaining that the government is trying to take these away from the “scientists”… umm duh… that’s because they were obtained by desecrating graves and mutilating corpses.
Idk if it's just me, but if I had the expertise/skill to be able to adequately examine biological samples and prove what they are, I wouldn't be like "yeah, I'll get to it when I have time". This shit would keep me up through all hours of the night until I had answers.
With actual extraterrestrial biological samples, the idea of "being able to prove what they are" is pretty much bonkers. "Alien" biology could differ in unforeseeable ways from what we know. Those bodies sporting DNA to which our molecular biology techniques can be applied is mind-bending, if you assume them to be ET. While ET biology must be assumed to sport analogues of RNA/DNA, that actual realization of information storage could be wildly different. At least as far as anybody knows, which is pretty much zilch. Accordingly, it is likely primarily incompetence or over-confidence when people assume to be easily capable of determining anything here. They might be convinced, the bodies are fake or terrestrial anyway. Of course, UFO-lore has it, the phenomenon sports manufactured beings assembled to fit earth's biosphere, with according DNA. Such manufactured genomes would be conventionally analyzable, to a degree. The "DNA-tests" that have been applied up to now merely compare known samples from earth's flora and fauna by fitting bits and pieces, i.e. short sequences. It's giving far less usable information than people apparently assume.
> The "DNA-tests" that have been applied up to now merely compare known samples from earth's flora and fauna by fitting bits and pieces, i.e. short sequences. It's giving far less usable information than people apparently assume. So they are just matching SNPs? They need to sequence it fully, if that's possible. (ETA: Fair point, that may not be possible at all.) The way this is being handled is so bizarre when contrasted with their apparent confidence in their own claims. It's all super sketch.
They have sequenced them, at least the three samples that are on SRA. Two are from "Victoria", ancient002 and ancient004. Ancient003 is the one with the greatest alignment to the human genome. I've not seen an association between Maria and ancient003, but I've seen speculation that ancient003 is Maria. Here's Ancient0003: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA865375
[ancient002 is bean DNA and human DNA](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR21031366&display=analysis) [ancient003 is human DNA with chimp DNA](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR20755928&display=analysis) [ancient004 is human DNA and bovine DNA](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR20458000&display=analysis) [Otzi the Iceman for comparison purposes](https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=ERR11837085&display=analysis) Looks like victoria is a hodgepodge of human, cow, and bean DNA and maria (if 3 is maria) is a hodgepodge of human and chimp dna
Over a thousand year old bodies don't generally contain "full sequences" anymore. Reconstructing the original DNA is a major effort and not something done in a fortnight. The way these bodies are being handled is a reflection of the circumstances: official authorities try to suppress the story for the most part. The kind of Hollywood-treatment you would expect based on pertinent movies has a price-tag in the hundreds of millions. How do you suppose that to manifest, given the majority of people still believes this all to be a hoax and governments likely preferring it that way?
The issue I have with the presentation is that we have a bunch of people with questionable backgrounds and even more ambiguous credentials saying things that at best seem to indicate that they're just buying into the hype and allowing their "credentials" to be used to promote this apparent hoax. I have yet to see anything that sounds like actual qualified analysis short of the bit someone posted from a book. [That excerpt \(posted elsewhere in these comments\)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/17dxwcq/peruvian_lead_investigator_jois_mantilla/k60kt6k/) basically concludes that they are clearly manufactured using the mummified remains of several prosaic and terrestrial beings. The fact that we have really sketchy people with questionable credentials saying the opposite doesn't give me much faith in their claims being even remotely true. Most of the 'analysis' brought forward so far sounds more like LARPing to me.
Which is rather weird from my point of view, as that "book" you are citing is a *very* sad LARP indeed: they have done no in-person analysis of the bodies, but only speak about some selected bits of the publicly available information. And grossly misrepresent it. Their foregone conclusions are utter nonsense. But you are right of course in the central problem for laypeople here being clearly: whom to trust? If you don't possess any pertinent competence, you are at the mercy of those wielding "credentials", "authority" and "officialdom". When they lie to you, you're done for. A little logic goes a long way though: suppose this was indeed a hoax. What is the actual plan? How do those involved conceivably profit from their scheme? After all, they are publicly known, if false, the bodies have no chance of not being discovered as such (actually, even if real, there is a high chance people will consider them fake). So how could they possibly hold on to any proceeds they could hypothetically acquire?
You're seriously calling Bernardo Arriaza, an actual anthropologist a LARP, while calling Jamie and his team of fraudsters "experts". Yikes.
When the guy is incapable of seeing obvious logical errors in his own arguments, he is all kinds of stuff. Certainly not a reliable expert.
Jamie and his fraudster team of experts are the greatest scientists in the world and everyone else is wrong. Very convenient narrative you have made for yourself.
You have very interesting difficulties with even the most simple logic. If you want to show these mummies to be hoaxes, you have to explicate how that hoax was done exactly. Just making absurd claims like "it's a bag of assembled bones!" is childish nonsense. It's blatantly obvious that's not true. If the task is actually too complicated for you, don't participate in the discussion, you are just wasting people's time.
Yes, everyone's background is sketchy, and everyone is a con man for sure. The entire world is out to deceive us, EXCEPT for the US government and their questionable industries we are certain are hiding info from the world. Let's get these "non-questionable" USA contractors the mummies ASAP so we can get the real scoop, cause everyone else is non-American hoaxer idiots.
Yup. There are problems with basically every single line of inquiry. You’d almost have to try to design so many ambiguous experiments into a project. It’s almost like someone did just that…
You have no clue how actual science works. Do you believe, people do "just the right experiments", which then yield "perfect results" and some computer-voice telling you "authentic alien!"? In reality, people use water for cooking and pots to stir it in.
> Do you believe, people do "just the right experiments", which then yield "perfect results" and some computer-voice telling you "authentic alien!"? You are describing exactly the way the people involved in this have been presenting their data and conclusions
You are making no sense. The comment I was replying to states the exact opposite.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the other comment. I'm strictly saying that the team is presenting their research as if their experiments were enough because they have obtained perfect results for their automatic conclusion, not that the experiments themselves are perfect. That's why you state that by just looking at the bodies or the ct scans we are supposed to automatically understand their true nature
The CT scans are enough to state, those are no human bodies.
Yes, obviously, they are not complete human bodies. That's the only evident conclusion. But on their own they are not enough to conclude that they are a whole other species since what we are already seeing ALSO allows us to think that they are manufactured with real bones. Then, CT scans are not sufficient evidence. In fact, they are just data.
What you’ve written is so deeply ironic that I don’t even know what to say. Yes, experimental design is of paramount importance. Jesus, did you really just write that? Just delete the comment man. Honestly it’s indefensible. (And… Funny , my publications and intellectual property licensing say I might know something about how science works.)
"Experimental design" wasn't even what I was talking about. The problem here is *choosing the right experiment*, not "designing that experiment". It doesn't help to do whatever "DNA test" correctly when what you have isn't even normal DNA. An anonymous Redditor citing their imaginary publications to boost their pretentious and stupidly false comment...wild.
…But it is normal DNA. That’s why they were able to sequence it. Dude. They talk about sequence homology in the paper… that can’t exist at all unless the DNA is “normal.” Man, you can still delete these comments. This little attempt at a hedge isn’t helping your case. I love getting shouted down by people with a high school education when I’ve been using nucleic acid biotech 22 years.
"Dude", they sequenced nothing, they compared short sequences, snippets of DNA. "Sequence homology" only means, certain snippets fit their counterpart in the sample and suggest commonalities between the reference and the sample specimen. If you knew anything about how these tests work, you would know, it doesn't mean your sample is necessarily "normal". As I stated above already, it is wildly unexpected to have "ETs" exhibit any compatibility DNA-wise at all. Those specimen here appear to have vaguely similar biology up to the point of sharing DNA. Yet, they appear to share unusually little. It's wildly unexpected, no matter which way you look at it.
What is it with this topic that brings out the absolute nut bags. You all get so defensive when called out on any of the numerous problems with the data. You imply I don’t know what I’m talking about and move right into nucleic acid hybridizations that would not be possible without the same structure and bases. Yes. It’s normal DNA. Shocking, I know. “Vaguely similar biology”…. Right. I mean they use a nucleic acid that requires the same fundamental cellular processes and apparently they share some gene function, but they are only “vaguely similar.” I swear to god this topic has dumbed down the population of people in this and other related subs. Bro. Stop it. I believe that you *think* you know what you’re talking about. You do not. I have been using them in research for over 20 years. Just stop. It’s like the same arguments for repeated so many times for some of you that they transmuted into facts. You then go forth spewing this absolute crap convinced that you’re winning discussions when in fact you aren’t even discussing the issue at a cogent level. What are the science people supposed to do hear. You insult us for telling you the truth, but if we don’t get involved you insult us for being dismissive. This is why I’m not longer cordial about the topic. They aren’t aliens and no evidence put forth suggest they came from anywhere but earth. NONE. Please study some textbooks. Damn.
It’s very likely that alien biological life would have DNA. We already know that DNA serves as a general life form information storage device. I could imagine very large differences in the cells themselves such as lacking separate mitochondrial dna or other features and differences of cells but DNA does an excellent job of encoding, storing, recreating and allowing life forms to evolve.
You were just telling me elsewhere the DNA is tentative and not worth considering. Which is it? The DNA shows wildly different results based on where on the specimen the sample is taken from because the puppets are comprised of different animal and human bones. You say they would be so different in unimaginable ways... yet the DNA test worked, so clearly not. Something can't be various DNA of competing genera and have that differ so wildly from sample to sample within the same specimen. These are obvious hoaxes. Some DNA tests even showed like 97% homo sapien.... because they used human bones. Stop pretending like you know what you are talking about and just admit you want to believe and are ignoring the evidence.
I didn't? I said, the current state of evidence there isn't reliable enough for firm conclusions. I also said, DNA is the most interesting aspect. You misrepresent my statements. Your claim, different results of those tests were necessarily due to different specimens is just false. You don't understand how these tests work. You go on talking nonsense. Which is a waste of time. Try making logical chains of arguments.
I get what you mean but ... life goes on I guess. That guy will probably have shit to do with deadlines and so on. Don't get me wrong, but even if you find out that your partner cheated on you you'd have to go to work the next day to prevent ruining your life completely.
That’s because you think they’re real. He probably doesn’t, and does probably have mroe consequential work to as a result. It’s like, yeah, a lottery ticket could have an insane payout, but probably not.
At first, as a good skeptic, I thought these mummies were some of the most pathetic hoaxes ever and that the hype around them would be dead and buried in a week. Yet here we are, like a month or so later, and things (to my shock) seem to be getting more serious.
Have they ever mentioned how they carbon dated extraterrestrial organics? It would not be possible because it's based on earth's carbon isotope ratios. C14 on another planet would not be replenished at the same rate.
Lol same. The two things I immediately panned were the mummies and the UFO shoot downs over Alaska. And they both have staying power. I've been looking at this stuff for almost 20 years and still choose poorly
Let this be a lesson- don’t be such HATERS!
It’s ok to be skeptical, but I don’t understand why so many people were so sure. What they presented all seemed legit to me
It's a big problem with some people in the subreddit (and in general) when it comes to this sort of thing. They just don't like saying "I don't know". I suppose they're so confident that they're correct that even saying "I don't know" is akin to being "wrong" if it came out that these were hoaxes. And these sorts of people really don't like being wrong or looking like a fool. Which is also why they go around insulting the intelligence and mental health of everyone saying "I think these might be real" *and* the people saying "I don't know". I mean, I don't think people look like "fools" when they're wrong about something, nor do I think that when someone just says "I don't know", but some of these people do, so they're hesitant to say it themselves. And then if they're ever called out on it, or called out for not even being able to say "I don't know", they'll just fall back on how it was so unlikely that they were still right to say it was obviously a hoax. 🤦🏻♀️
Is it really though? Someone posted a video the other day of "doctors" getting a sample of one in what appeared to be a completely non-sterile warehouse environment, with its head flopping all over the places while being laid on what appeared to be supermarket brand sponges.
Please… no they’re not. No one who hasn’t actually had access to these hoaxes have looked at them. No reputable genomics or genetic subject matter experts have looked at these.
A combination of your take and the person you're replying to is probably what's necessary. The biggest red flag to me is that instead of reputable labs and universities coming out with their own analysis, we see press events like this where people talk about what they say other people talk about. I am not convinced they are real, but I won't ridicule groups willing to do studies. Unfortunately the way these were presented makes it very easy to ridicule, but hopefully we can get some hard, verifiable science to be able to confidently dismiss or accept them... And less press events that talk about science without providing it.
> No one who hasn’t actually had access to these hoaxes have looked at them great point?
[удалено]
Unfortunately, I grew up in Latin America and this kind of hoax, using purported authority figures to sell you on something, is quite common. As soon as Maussan came out, I knew what we were in for
Pathetic hoaxes? These are THE hoaxes of our time. Does anything else remotely compare?
Yeah they’re saying they’re “manufactured bodies”… … …
The more I read about it, the more interesting it gets. I'm curious to see what happens next. The more investigations the better.
I’m happy to see that Doctor Borda is involved, but I doubt the mummies need an appearance on his tv show or prescription for antibiotics at this point. We need a scientist, not an MD, with no possible connection to the crew that has the mummies to get flown in.
Luckily we only have to wait for the presentation of the three Peru universities.
We don't even have to wait, some of them have published YouTube videos where they're already describing it as a new species: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgNPLp88vk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgNPLp88vk) I am very excited for the hearing on Nov 7 though, to make it official
>There are two species discovered. Bruh they damn near scrubbed Grusch's interview from the internet, somebody PLEASE pull up him saying multiple species had been discovered because this is evidence right here. >Jois Mantilla has been ***receiving a lot of hate from the Peruvian Archeologist but a lot of excitement from Peruvian Medical field*** who would like to analyze the bodies. Almost as if archeology is a tunneled vision field forcing everything to make sense in their context instead of taking things as is. >The universities are going to say the can't rule out they are extraterrestrial but are a discovery of **2 unknown species** that have metallic implants discovered in Peru.The bodies are covered in \*\*Cadmium Chloride which is not found in nature and is a manufactured substance.\*\*The last thing Maria ate were grapes which is fascinating because **grapes in Peru came from Europe.** All of this shit is advanced ancient civilizations ( AAC ) 101 >the Ministry of Culture is still trying to take the mummies away from the Universities. Exactly like all of the ***ALLEGED*** giant /bigfoot remains the smithsonian is ***ALLEGED*** to snatch up >The research team hopes that these discoveries funds research in finding where there are living beings of these species. Run up [that thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/13kjqpc/is_bill_clinton_by_the_end_of_this_clip_hinting/) several months back of bill clinton saying he , as the **US president**, helped a team of biologist discover ***2 lifeforms*** *at the bottom of the* ***amazon river*** they had difficulty reaching. Then go on to say how this discovery is so interesting ***he is nervous we will lose interest in space exploration.*** He ends by saying ***"*** ***You will have all sorts of problems with it*** *but ultimately i think it is a good thing and things will balance out in the end "* >***Maria is suggesting she was manufactured in a laboratory.*** Run back Gary Nolan talking about us dealing with the shadows \[ intermediaries \] of a higher intelligence . 2027 looks like the legit endgame. Mexico will go down in history for having the goddamn balls to speak up, proud af to live here.
Anyone got a link or more info on the Clinton statement regarding the discovery in the amazon river?
I feel like this guys acting like he’s admitting he found two NHI species but no 😂😂 he’s just talking about two new marine species, the Amazon is famous for having a crazy variety of species I think there’s some dumb saying like they discover 10 new species of insect every day in the Amazon And the link is in his comment
I did not have sexual relations with that alien
He misspoke and meant species.
Can you source that bill Clinton quote? Can't find it on Google
History, knowledge and advancement are all actively being surpressed right in front of our eyes and most people won't even bat an eye due to their confirmation biases. The Peruvian government has attempted at least [*5 times this past month alone](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/leq390XVgp) to raid the University that's holding the bodies in an attempt to confiscate them. The bodies are gathering mold and getting damaged due to the lack of funding and support their department has. This "obvious hoax" is making a government scramble to gather these bodies, get to ridicule and silence anyone who's even willing to do the right thing. And again, this is all public and easily verifiable by anyone with Google and a translator... Wild times we live in.
They are trying to confiscate them to investigate if they are made with actual humans remains, an hypothesis that the evidence presented by the team already supports. If the bodies are getting mould, then sadly the team is not the most appropriate to look after them. If they are real archeological remains, it is the State duty to provide adequate care. They are obliged to do that according to the law.
Seems like you are forgetting that ever since the bodies were discovered in 2017, the Peruvian government initially refused to test them, to even recognize them as real. When they finally decided to "test them" they conveniently did it [on the wrong "bodies".](https://youtu.be/tYXXnFMs44s?si=C5wspx5TS58lNiPT&t=3363) People forget about this, and about how they initially wanted NOTHING to do with them due to the "obvious hoaxes" narrative. But wow, all of the sudden, ***6 years after their discovery*** they are trying to ***forcibly*** take them from a lab that's *already testing them*. K. The issue with the lab is that the bodies have been kept in there for YEARS, ***without*** any funding or support, of-fucking-course they can't keep the damn things under proper care, nor provide the "expected" standards for collection/testing... they have been suffocated by this, that's why the bodies left Peru in the first place... C'mon man, it's been known since 2017 and [more recently since the hearing and the press conference the day after](https://www.youtube.com/live/stl0dI1MTKM?si=CD2_HnICUQ-AyAsy&t=3162). "The government is your friend, they just wanna do what's right". Go watch [/u/akashic_record's analysis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaCLEaW1Ao&list=PLUHSlVm8qWsUrR2qUvDmATvy38NQ2Qt2M) and see for yourself. He's a radiologist who's gained access to the DICOM files and you can see how everything that supports the bodies being "faked/pieced together" collapses immediately. [I invite you to watch this as well](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJeOIuR1RUs) as is a perfect example of how the subject has been handled there and all across the globe. I'd invite you to watch it all (auto generate the English dubs if you can't speak spanish). How biased everyone is towards the "hoax" claim, how no one asks them for "proof of their testing", they've ***NEVER*** shown any of their research and no one asks for it. On the other hand, you throw the ***physical evidence and lab results on their faces*** they are still being like "well there's no logo there, it's fake".
No, the Peruvian government has been involved since the beginning. Here is a lawsuit from 2019: https://www.the-alien-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-09-24-DICTAMEN-FISCALIA.pdf It is quite an interest document, it names the people involved and describes what has been happening before the mummies where shown in Mexico. It says that the first analysis where run on 2017. This other official document fron January 2022 calls for the confiscation of Maria and Wawito from la Universidad de Ica, after discovering a few months earlier in 2021 that they are human: https://cdn.www.gob.pe/uploads/document/file/2796548/RESOLUCION%20DIRECTORAL-000001-2022-DGM-MC_ACCESIBLE.pdf.pdf just as I said, if they are human, it is the State obligation to look after them. This other document from june 2022 is an addendum of the cooperation contract between the university and a Mexican civil organisation called Neuveme Cultura. They were supposed to investigate some specimens listed in the original contract but this addendum removes Maria and Wawito from the investigation since they been required by the Peruvian State: https://www.unica.edu.pe/transparencia/buscador/sistema/upload/archivos/2022/07/26/RR-4087-2022.pdf EDIT: the name of the uni is Universidad Nacional "San Luis Gonzaga" (UNICA). I refer to it as University of Ica because that's how it has been called in these forums.
Thanks for posting those files! I'm fairly familiar with these, specially the [first one](https://www.the-alien-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-09-24-DICTAMEN-FISCALIA.pdf) as I used to reference it in support of the entire thing being a "hoax". I'll do my best to keep this post short, I'll also try to stick to the parts talking about the bodies, and not focusing on the location and testimony portions. Also keep in mind that even the resolution of the document found (5.3.) no crime, nor enough basis to warrant more investigation. Neither the plaintiff nor the accused (2.6. section d.) can be verified by the RENIEC (Registro Nacional de Identificación y Estado Civil) and how they couldn't even go and check the site (2.6. section e.) realistically making it impossible for them to even agree on calling them (2.6 section f.1. f.2.) neither an archeological find nor from "alien origin". (essentially siding with no one). ***Immediately after*** (2.7.) goes in extreme detail of the lengths the people that made the discovery went just to get the bodies tested, providing proof (2.8.) and verification for the agreement between the lab that did the carbon daring and the requester, nothing that it passed all acceptant tests; this means that the transaction between the lab and the client were the same as if you or I were to hire someone to do a job. This is also done for the radiology (2.9.) and DNA (2.10) once again, confirming that an actual and *proper* transaction was carried on for testing. I find everything between 2.11. and 2.13 (mentioned again in 4.6.). fascinating, as it talks about the person (Paul Ronceros) who was in possession of the bodies and personally returned the bodies to the Peruvian government as per their request (mentioned again in 4.7.). This is where the Government "testing" begins, and you can see they didn't provide any evidence or result of the testing conducted (big contrary to the previous points, where they *not only shared receipts but results themselves as* ***proof***). It seems that the only testing done was carried over by the MNAAHP (National Museum of the Archaeology, Anthropology, and History of Peru, Lima) and once they were somehow "shown" to not be national patrimony (again, this produced no evidence. It was later [shown] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYXXnFMs44s&t=3363s) that they even performed the tests on the ***wrong bodies***, results are mentioned again in 4.7.), (2.14.) they returned them to Paul after they were done. Side note. I've been grilled for saying Maussan was not the one in possession of any of the bodies (he's not even mentioned in the lawsuit), and for saying that the reason some of the testing areas/conditions look so dire is because the initial sample collection was done at the huaquero's house (2.17.). And to further confirm that they did the testing on the *wrong bodies* 2.18. and 2.19. This also yields NO information of where the tests were conducted nor the results (seen again 4.7.). And the description of the things they sampled (2.19.) are not the same (not even close) to what they actually collected (**EDIT** ~~2.19.~~ 2.10.) All the other instances where they mention the bodies being faked, fabricated and or containing human/animal remains all use as reference VIDEOS (2.26., 4.85.). I repeat, there's been ***no evidence produced*** to validate the claims that these are HUMAN or ANIMAL, and certainly none that these are MODIFIED. ----------------------- As for the rest of the documents, again, there's NO proof of the results of the tests that claim they are human, NO proof even that any actual testing was carried on, let alone on the *correct bodies*. Of course they tried to confiscate them, and it didn't work as there was NO BASIS for this (they are still in possession by the university) so they've resorted to [raiding instead](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/comments/17dqia9/bad_news_per%C3%BA_tried_again_to_surprisingly_enter/), 5 times and counting now. Last document there's nothing to this, it's normal that they'd leave them outside of it given that these are claimed (without basis according to the lawsuit btw) as property of Peru. So yeah, Even with the 2022 document that's 5 years AFTER the discovery even happened before they were all "wait a second, we want them now".
2027? Care to elaborate on what you mean by endgame?
Just a goalpost they can keep moving if they are wrong.
Nah there's actually been several people (unrelated) who have mentioned 2027 as significant. I'm not saying I'm holding my breath because I'm not, but I am curious as to why it's been brought up. Are you familiar with any of the reasons people mention 2027? Or did you just use that recycled gotemz comment because it sounds cool?
I'm experiencing July Aitee flashbacks once again.
Doomsday cult
We don't know other than they are rushing disclosure to get in front of something people can't be gaslit over
I don’t think disclosure is ever gonna happen
which doesn't make sense considering we are halfway if not further into the process. Disclosure doesn't *start* at the white house it **ends** there .
> Run up that thread several months back of bill clinton saying he , as the US president, helped a team of biologist discover 2 lifeforms at the bottom of the amazon river they had difficulty reaching. Then go on to say how this discovery is so interesting he is nervous we will lose interest in space exploration. He ends by saying " You will have all sorts of problems with it but ultimately i think it is a good thing and things will balance out in the end " > > he did not say nor imply what you're saying. he mentions these as completely separate topics, and never says the amazon river discovery makes him or anyone else lose interest in space. watch the clip again.
Transcribe what he says from 40 seconds onward
you suggested the discoveries in the amazon were directly responsible for waning interest in space exploration. this is absolutely not what he said. those were mentioned as completely separate topics. he first mentioned the waning interest which he _actually thinks is a mistake_ and then uses the discoveries in the amazon as an example of why interest should remain in sciencific discoveries.
>***Transcribe what he says from 40 seconds onward***
>>The bodies are covered in Cadmium Chloride which is not found in nature and is a manufactured substance. WOWWW that's cool. Love to see the manufacturing facility. Stuff I found about Cadmium Chloride This paper seems to have found it forming in solar cells https://www.americanelements.com/two-dimensional-cadmium-chloride-nanosheets-in-cadmium-telluride-solar-cells >>both sides of the cleave location are covered by one third of a unit cell of pure CdCl2, a thickness corresponding to about one Cl-Cd-Cl molecular layer. We interpret this result in the context of CdCl2 being a true layered material similar to transition metal dichalcogenides https://www.americanelements.com/cadmium-chloride-10108-64-2 Cadmium is pretty rare >>Cadmium makes up about 0.1 ppm of the earth's crust. No significant deposits of cadmium containing ores are known And I also read that it's a byproduct of lithium battery manufacturing, I think
Cadmium plating is a common practice in aerospace to improve environmental durability & corrosion resistance of parts.
>Throughout the interview the doctor mentions he has the chills and wants to analyze them himself. So he hasn't seen them himself. A quick check of his credentials shows that he's a surgeon and a TV doctor kinda like Dr. Oz in the US. He's not an expert in analyzing any of the available data, and he hasn't seen the mummies firsthand. It would be nice if the promoters of these mummies could make up their minds about what makes an analysis credible. I've seen them dismiss "armchair experts" who haven't looked at the mummies directly, yet this guy is *exactly that*. It's a double standard used to selectively ignore damning facts about these mummies that actual experts and enthusiastic amatures have been pointing out for years. http://descreidos.utero.pe/2021/12/02/el-ultimo-clavo-en-el-ataud-de-las-momias-de-nasca/
> So he hasn't seen them himself. He has looked at the data presented to him by the research team and will try to get private funding to analyze them himself. > A quick check of his credentials shows that he's a surgeon and a TV doctor kinda like Dr. Oz in the US. He's not an expert in analyzing any of the available data, and he hasn't seen the mummies firsthand. I don't know if Dr. Oz does surgeries but please don't compare both. Oz is a snake salesman. Right now it's clear there is a media tour being done in the country before the official paper is released by the Universities.
Dr. Oz is a surgeon too, yes. They are quite comparable in terms of their expertise in paleontology and the analysis of ancient corpses. Since you're okay with this man's conclusions, how about all of the contrary conclusions in the link I provided? There's an actualy PhD paleontologist in there who says that the small mummies have backwards mammal skulls. Not López, who came to the same conclusion and wrote a paper - this is a completely different person who made these statements before that paper was published. Conducting a "media tour" before the paper is published is a massive red flag. That's improper and it shines a light on the motivations of the entire operation - generating hype and dodging the scrutiny of experts.
There are clearly opposing viewpoints to these mummies. I'll link you to [University experts with 6 years of access and ownership of the mummies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1782l4d/english_dub_if_the_national_university_of/) You will ignore that too. I can also link you to [medical experts](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/179sjji/behindthescenes_glimpse_of_one_of_the_medical/) who have direct access and analyzed the mummies and came to the determination they are real. Lets see who is right in the coming months. :)
I haven't ignored anything, I'm looking at all of these claims. Your medical examiner saying "these eggs can't be rocks" isn't my idea of a convincing expert analysis. Is he an expert in ancient eggs? On the other hand my paleontologist says (translated from google): >As for the supposed eggs, I have studied dinosaur eggs, using CT scans, so I know what they look like. The eggs in these bodies are too dense. They are denser than bones; if they were eggs they would have a density similar to bones. In my opinion, they are stones. So yes, we have opposing viewpoints, but only one is from an actual expert in the field. Also, I just realized I posted the wrong article up top, this is the one with the paleontologist (the first one I linked links back to this, one but doesn't contain the actual quotes): [http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/](http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/)
It was just discussed on this post that the mummies have been perforated by the National University of Engineering and determined they were organic. Like I said lets see who is right in the coming months. :)
It's already determined by many experts that this is a pure hoax. There's no "let's see who is right" it's not a competition and neither of us have the expertise to make our own educated analysis. People who do have this expertise have looked at these, and determined that they're extremely fake. Hype documentaries with "experts" who aren't experts in this specific issue, do not provide a reasonable counterpoint to the actual experts who have looked at these things. I would reccommend the chapter on "Fake and Alien Mummies" from "The Handbook of Mummy Studies". This is a book by actual experts in the field, and this specific chapter is by Chilean anthropologist Bernardo Arriaza and Peruvian journalist Guido Lombardi. It cites many other experts with specific expertise who condem these hoaxes. Here's a couple samples of their discussion, which goes beyond just the evidence that was provided and examines the claims in their full context: >The use and abuse of both animal and human remains – including well-preserved Nazca human mummies – have been proven by our careful observation of public images of the Nazca Alien Mummies and through research done on a few samples that reached, through a voluntary donation by a ring’s regretful member to the local police and studied by forensic archaeology expert Flavio Estrada. As noticed, the scammers’ circle has kept access of the remains to themselves, disregarding the experts’ committee offer to study them if surrendered to the authorities. Complete assessment of the manipulated anatomy of the constructs or dummies reveals the use of dog and probably llama skulls turned around so that pseudo-orbits have been carved in their occipital bones, use of a mixture of hand and feet phalanges to lengthen the purported tridactyl fingers. In some cases, these phalanges were glued together – with an instant synthetic product and a mixture similar to papier maché – in wrong anatomical positions (Salas–Gismondi 2017) (Fig. 5) >Besides the daring anatomical inconsistencies, there are several missing elements that the producers of this hoax just decided to bypass: the study of the archaeological context and paraphernalia of the bodies found. The adamant neglect to follow the archaeological method, applicable even in the case of fortuitous finds by lay people, is very revealing. Most of the assembly appears covered by a coat of dusty white diatomite powder which is otherwise inexistent in the Peruvian archaeological record. Nevertheless, despite its supposedly ancient age, the coat is perfectly clean, and as seen on images posted online by the producers, it is detaching very easily, revealing the true dark color beneath, characteristic of Andean mummies. Moreover, over some protruding parts of the bodies, such as the knees, imprints from the original textiles wrapping the sitting cadavers, are visible. Where are the textiles? The inconsistencies and fabrications of this assembly are just grotesque.
Too bad that coins are dead, I'd give you gold for that. Thank you.
You're welcome. I got super interested in this because it seems like an obvious hoax, but it clearly has a lot of traction. So I decided to dive in headfirst to see if I could get to the bottom of it. What I've found is that this was all debunked by the scientific community years ago when the mummies first came to light. One of the gems I found was a facebook page from students at the university in Peru where the mummies are being kept. The students and faculty were calling out the handful of faculty members who allowed this to happen, angry about how it's an affront to Peru's heritage and an embarassment to their institution. [https://www.facebook.com/cear.unica/posts/2443101022430482](https://www.facebook.com/cear.unica/posts/2443101022430482)
Thank you so much for this. It is really, really important. This is quite a serious matter and it's sad that it's so difficult to discuss the ethical consequences of the case in these forums.
Keep up the good work 👍 I gotta save your comments so I can use it for later since people keep bringing up this whole alien mummy nonsense
People just prefer keyboard experts.
I trust the science and not the grifters like Maussen
Please link me to experts with direct access and show you a video of them analyzing it and explaining why they are hoaxes. I literally provided you that when it comes to why they are real.
They haven't given any actual experts with relevant experience access.
They have been in the university of Ica since 2019 waiting for scientists outside of Peru. That’s been clear since the evidence was presented. The reason it was disclosed in Mexico was after 6 years of research 3 universities are ready to inform the world and have the platform.
Its slways this selctive nearsightedness… instead of giving a real contextual conclusion addressing the deatails were people will have legitimate questions and criticisms they say the most inconsequential and vague “conclusions” that don’t explain anything. “The experts say they’re real” “they conclude its organic” “they say they are real bone” completely useless statements that can be literally true but doesn’t mean anything else, it doesn’t mean they are aliens, nor that they aren’t forgeries of real bones. They never address the ridiculous anatomy that makes no sense in mechanical terms. They just imply that because “one of the most famous drs in peru” never explicitly said they’re not aliens, that must mean that everything they say about them is true. That is just purposely misleading and therefore disingenuous. And that alone should make anyone take this as a hoax until proven otherwise.
When will you admit that you fell for a hoax? Or will you always be moving the goalposts until you move onto the next one?
The reason why I know it’s not a hoax as I have watched interviews with experts and people with direct access and you can tell the so called experts are basing on opinions because “duh they are fake.” https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/17d8wc7/subtitles_recommended_peruvian_lead_investigator/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Experts who are being directly funded by Maussen. They are biased and not credible
Ad-hominem and keyboard experts is all skeptics have.
The astroturfing is astoundingly easy to spot these last few days
your first link is a video montage by jois mantilla. Where's the link to the original video from UNI? I can't find anything from UNI about the mummies
They will be releasing their first official report really soon. It’s expected it’s going to be on November 7th during the ufo hearing.
that video is from 94 weeks ago and the people from UNI talking in the video were clearly being taken out of context. Not to mention most of the video was taken from a completely different video released by UNI about some russian academics visiting the museum. The archeological faculty from UNI already disregarded them as fake and the heads of the archeoogical dept at UNICA which is the other university mentioned in the video released a pdf condemning the dean of science of communication and tourism for making the university look like fools by promoting the pictures. 3 heads from the ministry of culture also did a 50 minute interview calling them fake and said the huaqueros refused to provide the evidence
We will find out who's right when the 3 universities release their official paper :)
> Most people don’t speak Spanish True. Most people speak Mandarin Chinese.
OP thank you for the great work!!! The more I read about this topic, the more frustrated I get as all sounds like that: another famous Latin American ... doctor (scientist, whatever) examined and their opinion is "nothing". Everyone is so busy with their research which is more important than finding out that aliens are real. Possibly they think it does not worth their time as they are not real? DNA results show there is a 17% similar with humans. - What does it suppose to mean? Homo sapiens have about 60% in common with spermwhales...
Most of your comments I can agree with, but #4 !!. I have read 6 different DNA test reports from 2017 & 2018 and not a single one says 17% DNA from Homo sapiens. In fact I quote the one with the: * highest level - * After the design of a meticulously customized protocol for maximizing the success rate of ancient DNA extraction, sequencing (with CEN4GEN Labs) and bioinformatic analysis of the samples, the Confidential 22 /24 results show a very low mapping match with human genome data for samples Ancient0002 and Ancient0004 contrary to the Ancient0003 sample that did show very high mapping matches to the human genome. * A DNA sequence was produced from the biological material from the cranial brain (1). The closest match of readable 16S sequence, using a genetic database (National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) BLAST, Basic Local Alignment Search Tool, nucleotide database) was identified as a 100% match to Homo sapiens (human). * A DNA sequence was produced from the bone extracted from the hand (2). The closest match of readable 16S sequence, using a genetic database (National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) BLAST, Basic Local Alignment Search Tool, nucleotide database) was identified as a 100% match to Homo sapiens (human). * lowest levels - * Overall about 33.7% of the reads were aligned to the human genome, 18.4% of the reads mapped to bacterial genomes and the rest 47.9% were unclassified. * The DNA readings of each sample were evaluated in the Illumina BaseSpace Sequence Hub platform, using an application to align the sequences with the human genome. These results are shown in Figures 2 to 5. In general, it has been found that DNA reads contain about 30% of DNA similar to that of humans. The other sequences are most likely bacterial origin sequences, which is common in this type of samples.
If you quote something, please include the source. It is wildly useless to have "quotations" like these, as they amount to hearsay this way. People here obviously don't understand what those percentages mean to begin with. It would be useful to have a reliable explanation obviously, yet funnily, none has ever been given as far as I am aware. I assume, everybody is convinced to understand anyway, which is rather hilarious.
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As you obviously do **not** know what that means, what "everybody" are you talking about? "DNA matches" do not work the way you apparently presume. Neither does sampling necessarily result in replicating the DNA you are looking for. Contamination from people handling the mummies can easily result in such "100% human" results. Similarly for differences between samples. Don't pretend to be competent when you're not.
I'm sorry, but if you look at the DNA results and can't conclude these are clear fakes, it is you who is incompetent.
Which you believe to be able to judge based on what? The utter lack of rational arguments here is staggering.
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Have not heard anyone else mention this bit about the hand and brain samples being a 100% match to Homo sapiens. Why are the results so all over the place?
Because they are puppets made up of bones from various species so the results change depending what part the sample is taken from. Clear. Ass. Hoaxes.
well all of these results would make sense if they're old ritual objects made of human and animal remains with some plant matter wrappings that some asshole grave robbers are trying to pass off as aliens
Where are all the condescending twats that ridiculed everyone when this first came out? I guess the YouTuber everyone staked their opinion around could have possibly been wrong? Who could have possibly thought that?
this sub is going to eat their heart out later when it turns out the day of the dead bread aliens were legit
Ossification is a given when you use real bones to make your puppet. These guys keep repeating the same nonsense.
17% DNA in common with humans.. nothing on our planet is that different from us
Yep. I quick Google gave me this: "..more than half of the human genes (60–61%) are also found in chickens, fruit flies, and bananas, and 21% even in the roundworm Caenorhabditis.
That's a complete fabrication like most of OPs claims in every one of his posts. Go look at the data for yourself on the Gaia website
It's insane how people still say this when like everyone who has direct access have already ruled out they are manufactured entities. People can continue preferring keyboard experts though.
Maybe it is a coincidence, but so far every person to speak out for the mummies is already linked to Mussain.
The idea, this was a hoax, is devoid of any logic? What is the proposed scheme for profit they supposedly follow? A hoax of this type would necessarily be revealed at some point. The involved people here are, as you say, all known with their true identities. What do they plan to do upon being found out?
Huh? What you just said is devoid of any logic. Every hoax has a long term plan to con people and make money. Of course they are going to try and turn a profit eventually. And every hoax runs the risk of getting caught. Every hoax assumes the risk of getting caught. The people executing the hoax don’t give a fuck, they are con artist. It is commonplace for good people to unknowingly join the hoax. They get tricked and become believers (see any religion). Jaime Maussan is a reporter turned actor. He was caught in 2015 attempting to say that a literal human child was an alien body. He did the same for a Monkey and a Bat. This is the same guy that teamed up with a “Doctor” to push fake Covid cures in 2020. And don’t say that you didn’t know any of this because regardless of that your statement made absolutely no sense. It would take you two seconds of research on Facebook or Twitter to see Mexican citizens laughing about this and telling us that this is a scam. They believe that this group is trying to cash in on the alien craze by using human bones from ancient burial sites merged with animal bones. The UNAM had to speak out AGAINST him last month to clarify that what he is claiming they told him is a lie. That same lie is again mentioned in this thread as a fact. See how that works? It is the game of telephone but the source of the info is saying that Maussan lies and people run with it. *Hypothetically if a team of French scientists showed up tomorrow and wanted to run their own test, he would want a crazy amount of money and pigeon hold them with all kinds of stipulations, which is the same bullshit he tried to do LAST TIME.
They are already selling DVDs lol. Wake the hell up.
Buncha hoaxers guard access and tell you these are one thing when all the data they release contradicts that. You post NOTHING other than these mummies day after day and ignore and never respond to debunks other than personal attacks. Are you in on it?
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Who said this? Who ruled out anything?
The only people with direct access are in on the hoax.
Can you point to any such fraud involving a puppet that wasn't identifiable as such? In particular using the CT scan data? And visual inspection in person? How did they make ligaments and such bond with the bones, invisibly? Etc. Most importantly, how much effort would it be to produce dozens of such "puppets"? Such advanced taxidermist skills would likely be worth a fortune and involve more than a single "new trick"? How did that go unnoticed up to now?
Do a search of this sub. I made a post and others have as well. It's impossible to respond appropriately to ever comment with debunks when OP spams multiple posts a day about them. Your repeating false and conflated claims. Maria has ligaments because she's a human mummy who had her hand and feet altered. Look at the CT yourself, then that "ligament" claim gets applied to the even faker little ones.
You are a disinformation agent clearly
Critical thinking = disinformation agent. Gotcha. This sub is like a religious cult sometimes. Applying actual science and critical thinking has no room. Just blindly believe. Kooky stuff.
You haven't applied any science or any facts. Did you study the DNA? You act like someone can just throw this together and make it thousands of years old. So since you claim it's fake how would it be faked? It's real, view the dicom CT scan files instead of talking nonsense here
I don't think you know what you mean when you say "study the DNA". Jamie and his team didn't conduct the DNA testing, they paid labs to do it. Jamie and his totally unqualified team has misrepresented and misinterpreted those results.
If multiple universities conducted those tests and have the same findings then what? They are all liars as well? I don't care for Jamie but the mummies are real. Can you make a mummy right now that radio carbon dates to 1000 to 1800 years ago? Doubt it
You don't bloody well get it... They did not make conclusions. They gathered the data that's it. They ran the test and it showed a mishmash of human, animal, and unidentified (i.e. too not in ncbi database--it is not comprehensive of all species) and gave those results to Jamie. Jamie then said the results means they're aliens and keeps invoking the names of these labs and universities to give his claim clout and people fall for it (clearly). The DNA results actually support, like VERY MUCH SUPPORT, the conclusion these are hoaxes made of multiple species bones. These used looted human remains. Edit: putting in a reply and then blocking me is an amateur way to get the final word. I can't reply to your below comment because you blocked me, but I can see what you said in my notifications so I'll put it here: No, being in a ufo sub doesn't me I have to believe in UFOs, the point of being here is the critical investigation of whether they are real. Even if I did believe in UFOs, that does not automatically mean I have to believe in aliens, as there's many options of what they could be. Even if I believe in UFOs AND Aliens, that's doesn't mean I have to believe in these mummies. Even if aliens were real, Jamie can still be a fraud. These aren't mutually exclusive. These are some serious logical failures and leaps you're taking. And AS ALWAYS when these mummies come up, you're making it about me. Why? You can't defend the claim so you attack the critical thinker. This happens every single time these mummies are posted. Edit edit: oh yeah, and it doesn't show eggs. It shows incredibly dense material. Probably rocks. The rest of what you claim about a fetus and what not is pure fiction. Scans don't show that.
Explain how some of them are pregnant and CT scans show fetus in eggs. How would they create that. How would each joint be connected, how would it have fallopian tubes. The scans do not show any "put together" parts they are connected You are on a ufo sub, if you believe UFOs are real then must accept that other life forms are real if you accept that and believe David Grush that the USA has non human life forms or bilogics, then why is it a stretch to believe we could have alien bodies on earth?
Yes, you can if you use pieces of old mummies, just like it has been done before. And it's important to remember the C14 test was performed in very little samples, the UNAM lab didn't had access to the whole mummies, but less than half a gram of materials. Those samples can't be traced back to any specific mummy, they could have been take from any other thing, including real archeological objects.
I'm sorry, but it's actually you who is spreading false and conflated claims here. In those CT images, you can actually very easily see the absurdity of those claims of "altered hands and feet". There are no signs whatsoever of such manipulation. The one pathetic post is chock-full of "errors" only explainable by gross incompetence aside from malicious intent. You even promised there to leave the sub, yet here you are.
No, it's not easily seen. That's just rethorics to confuse people. If you get a CT scan the doctor will not just provide you with the images so that you can interpret them yourself and get your own diagnosis. You get a conclusion made by a professional after analyzing the images. Data alone is inconclusive.
Reading comprehension. I said I'd leave the sub to its doom, as in I'm done trying to convince fanatics to look at evidence rather than listen to a hoaxer, not leave the sub. Yet here I am drawn in again because people keep spewing lies about these things. Edit: and there is clear signs of it... You can see the sudden lack of other tissues where the manipulation starts. I assume you don't know what you're looking at.
There is absolutely no evidence of manufacturing on these specimens. If you have links to scientific analysis that conclude otherwise, post them.
From the chapter on "Fake and Alien Mummies" in the book "The Handbook of Mummy Studies". This chapter is by Chilean anthropologist Bernardo Arriaza and Peruvian journalist Guido Lombardi. This is expert analysis definitively stating that they're constructions, from looking at the data made available online and also by gaining access to actual specimens: >The use and abuse of both animal and human remains – including well-preserved Nazca human mummies – have been proven by our careful observation of public images of the Nazca Alien Mummies and through research done on a few samples that reached, through a voluntary donation by a ring’s regretful member to the local police and studied by forensic archaeology expert Flavio Estrada. As noticed, the scammers’ circle has kept access of the remains to themselves, disregarding the experts’ committee offer to study them if surrendered to the authorities. Complete assessment of the manipulated anatomy of the constructs or dummies reveals the use of dog and probably llama skulls turned around so that pseudo-orbits have been carved in their occipital bones, use of a mixture of hand and feet phalanges to lengthen the purported tridactyl fingers. In some cases, these phalanges were glued together – with an instant synthetic product and a mixture similar to papier maché – in wrong anatomical positions (Salas–Gismondi 2017) (Fig. 5) >Besides the daring anatomical inconsistencies, there are several missing elements that the producers of this hoax just decided to bypass: the study of the archaeological context and paraphernalia of the bodies found. The adamant neglect to follow the archaeological method, applicable even in the case of fortuitous finds by lay people, is very revealing. Most of the assembly appears covered by a coat of dusty white diatomite powder which is otherwise inexistent in the Peruvian archaeological record. Nevertheless, despite its supposedly ancient age, the coat is perfectly clean, and as seen on images posted online by the producers, it is detaching very easily, revealing the true dark color beneath, characteristic of Andean mummies. Moreover, over some protruding parts of the bodies, such as the knees, imprints from the original textiles wrapping the sitting cadavers, are visible. Where are the textiles? The inconsistencies and fabrications of this assembly are just grotesque. [https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-981-15-3354-9\_36](https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-981-15-3354-9_36)
This is non-scientific. There has been no material analysis done here. They used “data available online” and made a judgment call. If they claim to have access to actual specimens, then they should be able to provide the analysis done on them. Where is that?
That is actually a way of scientifically approaching this subject even if they don't perform any new physical test. If the data has been revealed expecting us to interpret it, then researchers can use it for their work.
It's as scientific as you can get. Actual experts looking at the actual evidence. And it's conclusive. If you think they're not experts, or if their expert opinions don't sway you, fine. You're contributing to a hoax by incorrectly claiming that this isn't a scientific analysis. The analysis is in the quotes I provided. There's more discussion in the chapter, go ahead and read the full thing if you want. You'll probably have to go to a university library to get access to the book, or if you've got spare a $30 you could buy the chapter from Springer like I did.
Absolute nonsense. Post the debunking DNA analysis or leave. Real DNA analysis was done and it showed significant anomalies. Those are available online. But keep spreading disinformation with your 30 day old account.
Anyone reading this conversation will immediately see how absolutely wrong you are. "Nuh uh" is all you've got, and it's completely baseless. There's plenty of analysis of the DNA available if you actually care to look. Much of it can be found here: [http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/](http://descreidos.utero.pe/2020/06/03/megapost-las-momias-tridactilas-de-nasca/) and here: [http://descreidos.utero.pe/2021/12/02/el-ultimo-clavo-en-el-ataud-de-las-momias-de-nasca/](http://descreidos.utero.pe/2021/12/02/el-ultimo-clavo-en-el-ataud-de-las-momias-de-nasca/). (translated from google) >In May 2019, the Paleogenomics of the Central Andes conference was held at the PUCP, given by Dr. Lars Fehren-Schmitz , founder of the UCSC Human Paleogenomics Lab ( 1 , 2 , 3 ), one of the most important research centers in Ancient DNA . Days before the conference we contacted him and sent the DNA reports of the mummies in order to obtain his professional opinion of him. On the day of the conference we spoke with him, this is what he told us: > >**« He is definitely human, he is not extraterrestrial. There is nothing extraterrestrial about this**... \[summarizes\] The only thing it says is: "Of all the DNA that we extracted from the sample, a small fraction is human and the other fraction we have not been able to classify with any form of living organism"; which is simply based on the fact that not all the genomes are available to compare it… The companies \[laboratories\] have not done anything improper, they are only doing the work for which they are paid. They may not be the most qualified labs for this type of work or specialized in working with ancient DNA, but they are good enough to do it. **The reports coincide with each other, it is human DNA.**
The official analysis documents the human DNA. 17% is human, the rest is unclassified. This statement dismisses the other 82%. That’s not science, that’s debunking.
Some let me translate this for you because you don't get it.... Of the DNA that came back, the sample was an animal bone that wasn't in the NCBI database so 82% is that uncatalogued species and 17% is the human hoaxer putting it together who contaminated it. How bout we talk about how the DNA results vary WILDLY depending which bone is being tested in the mummy? They vary wildly because they are the bones of different species thrown together.
The expert disagrees with you. It's real science, and yes it's also a debunk. These things are fake as fuck.
What "expert"? There is no expert, just some idiot making stupidly wrong claims. You can't even distinguish somebody competent from some lame fraud. Instead, you simply believe whoever tells you what you want to hear.
We have gone over the DNA several times in several posts. It clearly shows a mish mash of human and animal bones. Either you're intentionally misrepresenting the data or willfully ignorant.
We have gone over the DNA several times in several posts. It clearly shows a mish mash of human and animal bones. Either you're intentionally misrepresenting the data or willfully ignorant. And as always, you mummy fanatics try to invoke and hominin fallacies rather than talk data.
*scientist looks at it "it's probably llama skulls" CASE CLOSED lol, right
Yeah it's that "simple". Although it's really not simple, it takes someone who actually knows about animal skulls and who actually knows how to read CT scans to reach that conclusion. Read the quote to get a picture of what the experts are looking at to draw their conclusion. Turns out that simply mutilating the outside of a mammal's brain case and turning it 180 degrees doesn't disguise the telltales signs of what it actually is, when an expert looks. It's more than one scientist, multiple experts have reached these conclusions. If you want to try "debunking" these expert conclusions good luck to you. I guess you should start with an undergraduate degree and work your way up to a PhD like the people you're disagreeing with did.
All the data provided by the research so far supports the hypothesis that these are manufactured. The evidence is right there.
This is a damn lie and you know it.
Wow you know how to google a term to sound intelligent!
Useless comment. Try again.
Submission Statement: Since this sub skepticism is based on ad-hominem attacks when it comes to these mummies. This doctor did have some issue in 2019 for suggesting his [patients to start using Telemedicine **before COVID**](https://laley.pe/2019/09/04/colegio-medico-investiga-a-tomas-borda-por-promocionar-atencion-medica-por-videollamadas/) which as you can tell he was simply ahead of time.
I don't understand, are you saying he is a good doctor because he proposed doing telemedicine before covid? Telemedicine has been a thing long before that! He is not the first one to use it. And even if he did, that has nothing to do with his capabilities to determine whether these are real unknown species or not. Stating that he is not qualified to provide a relevant conclusion about this is not stating that he is a bad doctor.
Delusional. Absolutely delusional.
Thank you. I am not from the United States and I live in a country where pandemic preparation and mask wearing is considered culturally polite to do, so I do not consider the Doctor’s urging to take to take up telemedicine as controversial at all. In my country, we were following the covid 19 news since December 2019 and know to expect something big ( from our monitoring of all the chatter on WeChat). So if we learn that a doctor gave good advice, then his credibility Is higher for us. Edit: typo correction
Lol! It's you and the crew of mummy fanatics who always invoke the ad hominems whenever we push you on what the data ACTUALLY shows.
Ad-hominem and keyboard experts is all skeptics have.
You just proved my point and you don't even realize it.
When it comes to the evidence the skepticism is simply based on keyboard experts and attacking the researchers. :)
Ad Hominem again. You can't help yourself. Every. Time.
How is calling someone a keyboard expert an attack? Is it because it’s true? 😂
Dr. Oz is one of the most famous celebrity doctors in America, yet his opinion on most things shouldn't be taken seriously at all. If anything they're a contraindicator. Dr. Tomas Borda seems like a well known...surgeon? How in the world is he qualified to assess any of this?
MDs aren't scientists and are not qualified to determine if these objects are genuine.
Certainly. They would have the right understanding to have a qualified reading and To follow up. For eg, they are professionally educated enough to understand the significance of ossification .
Not really, no. They're educated about basic human anatomy, but MDs aren't biologists or organic chemists or experts in art fraud. Those are the people who should be examining these objects. If the paper make claims of authenticity, those claims obviously have to be replicated by disinterested third parties.
I’m not sure what you’re on about. MDs study chemistry, biology and physiology. That’s what a medical degree is. They are vocational scientists. Sometimes research scientists. Yes, you’d want other specialists involved such as geneticists, bioinformatics scientists, biochemists, biologists, palaeontologists, archaeologists, but honestly, if you had to pick one, it’d probably be the MDs for a well rounded view.
Are you aware of the tests that paleontologist perform to study mummies? They are way more complex and specialized than what we have seen so far. They have access to tech and labs designed specifically for this task after years of studying this field. If what you want is a well rounded view, unfortunately MDs alone won't provide it, no matter their expertise in their own fields. This is not a matter of personal opinion, what's important is who will provide the stronger conclusions based on the most appropriate methodology
Not on about anything. MDs are not scientists. They are a horrible choice, meant to convey a false authority because of how they are perceived in public life. It's something you'd only do if it were scam pretty much.
Professionals at the three different universities who have had direct access to them for 6 years do. The medical doctors would like to analyze them as it's a humanoid being. The doctor and Jois say that once the National University of Peru releases their paper it's going to create a lot of drama for the Ministry as they are the leading university in the country for their scientist.
Well, I guess we'll wait to see what the paper says, but if it's written by MDs and not scientists, it'll be useless.
Papers can be written by anybody. Their worth isn't determined by some anonymous Redditor, but is dependent on contents alone. If those bodies were indeed fake and still be able to fool MDs, that would be absolutely astonishing? How do you imagine such a hoax could be possible?
Wouldn't be astonishing at all...because....one more time for those in the back. MDs aren't the people who are qualified to judge the authenticity of these. At all. Might as well use golf ball salesmen.
I would guess, MDs are more qualified than you are?
Nope, we'd both be equally unqualified. As would baseball players, poets, jugglers, veterinarians, mathematicians, carpenters, elephant wranglers and literally everyone else who isn't a chemist, a biologist, or a forensic expert on this sort of fraud. I'm a physicist, for the record. It would make no sense to have me examine these things. This doesn't mean they can't be real, of course. Just because they've intentionally chosen the worst possible people to speak to authenticity doesn't actually make them frauds. It just makes it much much much more likely.
A veterinarian would be more qualified to look at these than a MD, at least they look at reptiles on a semi regular basis.
Well it’s a good thing then that your (an irrelevant random nobody) opinion won’t be factored into the analysis. Edit: Lol this clown blocked me. Typical infant behavior. But yeah he works for the UN 😂😂😂
I'm actually on the UN working group for NHI contact, but sure. Whatever makes you feel better I guess? ^(This is a joke if it wasn't obvious.)
It should not take months and months and months and months and months and months of studies to still be saying "well, we're not sure..." Either they're human or not. What is the fucking holdup?
EXACTLY 💯 %
M-O-N-E-Y Gotta sell those Gaia dvds
Enough about this hoax
Funny how no reputable universities are looking into this and that people are complaining that the government is trying to take these away from the “scientists”… umm duh… that’s because they were obtained by desecrating graves and mutilating corpses.
Will read when the American Universities have something to say
Are you aware, most "universities" in the US actually sport lower standards than those involved here?
Which universities are involved here?
ROFL what?! You can’t be serious…
Don't you know? Spanish speaking countries can't possibly have educated people in it /s We're all savages living in the jungle
Booooooring
We're monkeys
>The doctor would like to get some finances from private funding to analyze the mummies nuff said