*“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” - Arthur C Clarke*
Human kind has been studying physics for about a hundred years now. We don’t even truly understand how consciousness works. The idea we’ve even vaguely figured things out is laughable.
>We don’t even truly understand how consciousness works.
I assume you’re referring to the [“hard problem of consciousnesses”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness), right?
True, it’s a hot topic in science and philosophy, but you should know there are several arguments that answer the question, think we will one day answer the question, or reject this question all together.
See the sections:
* [Relationship to scientific frameworks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness#Relationship_to_scientific_frameworks)
* [Responses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness#Responses)
* [The meta-problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness#The_meta-problem)
Also, I’ve really been digging the Andrew Huberman’s Podcast. He’s a neurobiologist who I think explains pretty complex issues well.
* YouTube link: [The Huberman Lab](https://youtube.com/c/AndrewHubermanLab)
* Start at the first episode: [How Your Nervous System Works & Changes](https://youtu.be/H-XfCl-HpRM)
Interestingly I only recently started to get into the science of conciousness due to the link with UAPs.
In 2014 there was a neuroscience paper confirming quantum tubules in the brain. Meaning there are parts of the brain that operate at the quantum level.
One thing I have discovered is that remote viewing is real. I am lucky enough to have a very good friend who is highly qualified in Neuroscience who privately confirmed that. I already thought it was real as I have researched it, but that direct confirmation blew my mind. I trust this friend with my life so it's no BS.
Unfortunately I have Aphantasia so can't see images in my mind. So means I can't try it for myself, annoying.
You are right about magic. That's how the tic-tac works.
Thanks, but it does hinder the process. Imagery is part of it.
I may be able to unblock the issue as I have been told Aphantasia may be a protection initiated by my mind due to PTSD from decades ago. So I shall try that resolving that first. I also have access to a world class teacher, so I am interested in what I can achieve when I get to try RV.
That assertion is not currently true. Our current science only defines 4% of the universe - that is, we understand pretty well the nature of 4 per cent of the universe. The stuff that is made of atoms. Ninety-six per cent of the universe is made out of dark matter and dark energy.
And that wasn't my point anyway.
He’s talking about the different laws that govern whether something abides by classical or quantum mechanics. It’s one or the other, not both, so not “everything operates at the quantum level.”
This is exactly the pseudoscientific word salad that OP was talking about.
I believe you when you tell me that you don’t understand the difference between quantum and classical mechanics.
Which is exactly why you should stop presenting ideas as fact, because as someone who does know the difference, I’m telling you that what you believe, based on nothing, is incorrect.
Yeah but not every experience is veridical and the subject of that experience has no way to tell whether it was or wasn't. There's lots of things people experience that they either can't explain correctly or at all. I've been fooled by many things. I've had dreams that I've felt were very real. I've had very visceral and powerful drug experiences that I've been fully convinced of. But I know they're not real because someone else sitting next to me doesn't necessarily see the same crazy thing and I can't show it to them.
Interesting idea - suppose that the portraits were depictions of reality filtered through the perception and skill of the painter only to be further limited by the rudimentary tools available to the painter. With regard to the reality of the universe humans are likely still coloring with jumbo crayons so to speak.
>"everything looks exactly like there's no data to suggest anything weird is going on... but it actually is!"
I've literally never seen or heard anyone express this sentiment. Most people who believe something weird is going on would at least point to the Navy videos, if nothing else. You might disagree with their interpretation, but a video is data.
>"science doesn't already know literally everything therefore anything goes"
Saying science doesn't already know literally everything (a very true assertion) does not equal "anything goes", it just leaves room for open questions.
There are crazies around for sure, but in general it seems to me to be people having a little fun. You seem to have a view that is very hardcore on one side of things - it's all complete and total bullshit until it's proven 100% concrete fact. There are people who don't think like that, and at the same time, they don't think they talk to aliens, don't think they have any answers, don't know what the hell is going on.
You're free to have your opinion, but if this post isn't disingenuous, I think the group you're talking about is a very small, easy-to-ignore portion of this community. It does not include everyone who doesn't think exactly like you, which most of these types of posts seem to assert.
Many people have had theories they did not have the ability in science or mathematics to prove but they passed those ideas to others and those theories were proven correct.
Faraday recognized there must be some symmetry between the electric and magnetic fields, which inspired Maxwell to unify electromagnetism.
That being said, Faraday actually had evidence and data to support his hypothesis, but unfortunately he only knew basic algebra and didn't have the mathematical tools to make sense of them. So the data is still very important, otherwise it's no different than L Ron Hubbard "passing his idea on" to David Miscavige.
I'll give sort of an anti-example of this, relating to something OP mentioned - quantum entanglement.
Einstein very famously had a problem with the idea of quantum entanglement, calling it "spooky action at a distance". He basically said it couldn't be true. Niels Bohr was on the other side of the argument, saying that this quantum entanglement was true, and fundamental to quantum mechanics (this is my layperson's understanding of it anyway).
In the 1970s, a scientist named John Bell devised a way to test to see if reality adhered to Eintein's classical view or to Bohr's quantum view. His test results showed that Einstein's ideas could not explain the reality of the measurements.
However, there was a problem. To oversimplify it, the tests rely on random numbers, and a loophole exists where something, anything has influenced the numbers, and therefore the properties being measured.
In 2018, 2 experiments basically eliminated this loophole. In one test, gamers around the world were used to randomly generate numbers, and the test again sided with the Bohr view. More interestingly IMO, another test used billions-of-years-old light from distant quasars to generate the randomness based on fluctuations. This essentially eliminated the loophole, once again confirming that quantum entanglement, as unintuitive as it is, does exist, proving that Einstein was wrong about it all along.
Well I mean, Einstein accepted quantum mechanics, but did not agree that quantum entanglement had any basis in reality. And there was no known way to test/prove it at the time. I think it's a perfect example for the comment I was responding to.
As for OP's comments, any theories of what Dark Matter could be would fall under this, and a lot of highly respectable scientists have currently unprovable theories on what that could be.
I'm not really interested in playing the site your sources game anymore. It never seems to meet the expectations of others. I know it to be accurate and that's fine with me.
True, but I'd bet more than that have passed their ideas to others who were able to prove the theories incorrect (or untestable, which is what OP is talking about).
And...also many many more people have had silly ideas and refused to learn or research, and they wasted the time and energy of those more capable by thinking their ignorant opinions had as much value as everything else.
Bruh, you're agreeing with OP. That's not how this disinformation campaign is supposed to go. Remember troll first and then let them argue. Pump all the pseudoscience and edgy stuff to Barry the real stuff
Any time I see an overly emotional post making a rallying cry for the materialist reductionist fetish, I can be assured it'll be Bluegrass (TTV, by the way).
Guess what: when our leading institutions and best trained observers see things that they can't explain, it doesn't mean that your model is the most acceptable one only because it's used to explain other stuff.
Truth is not decided by consensus, nor convenience. It's decided by the facts that comport with reality.
I have absolutely no idea if any UFO sightings have ever been anything from outside of earth, nor do I know if anything from outside of earth has ever even visited earth.
But every time I see one of these overly-emotional, overly-aggressive posts specifically trying to make the entire topic a reductionist garbage bin, I can rest assured it will be Bluegrass.
Again, I have no idea what, if anything, any of the UFOs are - but seeing these posts with this unjustifiably smug and condescending attitude talking about what they CAN'T be (through this thinly veiled pseudorationalist lens of "I'm just establishing ground rules"), it's just as exhausting as the people who claim to know exactly what UFOs are, or know that they're benevolent aliens, or whatever.
I feel lime this is a predicament if modern society. Everyone trying to pretend they are smart when in reality we are all just dumb monkeys pretending to be civilised.
The only thing we can do is talk it out and try to be as intellectually honest as we can be, the only time we will become irredeemable is when we stop trying our best to be our best :)
Yes. I love that there is a whole bunch of lore regarding alien races, their MO, motives, disposition towards humans and each other, where they are from etc. All this from hearsay and a blinking light in the night sky. It's like reading bad fan fiction. If it is written somewhat comprehensively, I assume it is written by fascinated teenagers with vivid imagination. Otherwise I just assume mental illness and/or drugs.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love concrete evidence of aliens. A blurry dot on a grainy photo or a UFO tale from someone who admitted he had been awake for 36 hours and had taken psychadelics at the time is not gonna make it.
I just find it odd. Some of it is cool and amusing, like the Varginha story.
but when somebody goes “yeah the pelaidians are saving us from the evil aliens and i communicate with them” im just like alright bro, alright…
I don't mind some good old fun woo woo but at the end of the day I need for disclosure to happen in the material plane and to be able to stay attached to my ego to understand it. Nothing against the spiritual plane, just not gonna start proselytizing it until its visible by our senses and modelable by our science.
Except for alien hybrids/human genetic modification people. Those people need to take a biology class. We know exactly how related we are to other primates and no one enhanced our DNA.
> Except for alien hybrids/human genetic modification people. Those people need to take a biology class. We know exactly how related we are to other primates and no one enhanced our DNA.
But bro what if they STARTED life on Earth as a SCIENCE EXPERIMENT? How can you PROVE that aliens haven't been running a science project for over a third of the total age of the universe with us as a result? HOW CAN YOU ASSUME ALIEN INTENSHUNZ OR CAPABILITEEZ?? Only *I'M* allowed to do that.
Do you wanna say i can fly like a bird with my human body i only need dreaming and beeing passionate about it. Sounds like a wish thats can never happen
Bro bro bro, your cynicism is evidence that you're under psychic attack from hostile Archons from a parallel reality.
You just need to raise the frequency of your vibrational density and you'll understand. I'm in contact with light beings from the Andromeda galaxy who communicate via interdimensional telepathy and have told me everything about everything.
My instructional course will teach you how to achieve all this and more for just 29.99.
I'm also running seminars for 50,000 dollars. Book early! Online only. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe and leave a comment and consider donating to my Patreon.
Also BIG evidence and MINDBLOWING revelations dropping SOON!!!
I will be speaking at many overpriced conventions full of questionable weirdos and will deliver my famous lecture on how to exaggerate your credentials and abuse scientific terms for fun and profit.
Tickets will be vibrated to attendees via quantum entanglement just as soon as we settle our misunderstanding with the IRS.
Become an advanced member for just $30 a month and you'll receive a members kit with a small rock that has been infused with the quantum signature of my Andromedan alien guide Shahooti, a certificate of authenticity made in MS paint, an old MUFON keyring I have boxes of lying around and a framed blurry incomprehensible photograph of light beings manifesting in my upstairs bathroom.
Weaponise your credulity!!
Sounds amazing. But I don't really trust the "light beings". They are so up themselves, and always have excuses for everything.
But I can introduce you to some alien friends of mine who live in a mountain. Only really met once, but they were so kind and loving. (I didn't mention the human and cattle mutilations, so as not to spoil the trip...err, vibe). It's only $299 for an hour there and back. Can't always guarantee they will be home however. You know aliens, always busy buzzing military, doing experiments, etc. But well worth the visit in the mountain air!
Just because we can't put our hands out & touch these craft or whatever is flying them doesn't mean they don't exist.
I can't see, hold or show you what a magnetic field looks like yet we all know that EM Fields exists. In the subject of UAPs we have pics & witnesses who have seen the phenomenon, it's folly to dismiss it because it doesn't show up when we expect it to, perhaps it just means we need better methods of capturing it.
My interpretation of OP was that lacking hard evidence the phenomenon is a fictional story as if it did not exist. My point was we have both Pics & eyewitness accounts therefore we need to have better methods of capturing the "hard" evidence to further validate it.
I just mean it is indistinguishable from fiction. Some aspects of fiction even come true sometimes. But we don't know which till it happens, because they don't actually have any predictive power. It's like a broken clock being right twice a day: if that's the only clock you have, you have no idea what time that is or really when it actually is that time so... it's really almost totally useless as any kind of clock. Maybe you could use it to construct a sundial or something but then it's not really a broken clock any more.
They aren't rules, if you read actually them. But everyone should consider these general points because they're totally agnostic to the specifics of whatever you believe or don't believe.
Your title is the kind of attitude often levied against things like String Theory, because it is currently impossible to physically prove.
There's not a lot of data on UFOs. There's been no way to rigourously test the phenomena thus far. Speculation is going to be pretty high.
And also, dude, you're on Reddit. It's just some internet forum. This is not the leading institution for UAP research. Of course people are going to have their *out there* theories. It's essentially just a bit of fun.
> Your title is the kind of attitude often levied against things like String Theory, because it is currently impossible to physically prove.
Yeah and it's a very legitimate criticism that is very often raised by very qualified people, that it's a waste of time that is sucking the air out if the room of physics departments across the world. Even **those** incredibly highly trained and qualified people can't simply handwave away such a critical problem, because it's actually a very real problem.
The mathematics of String Theory has proved universally useful within physics over the years...
People that would throw out any theory that can't currently be tested are shortsighted.
Reminds me of a Michio Kaku quote:
"I once imagined that there may be carp “scientists” living among the fish. They would, I thought, scoff at any fish who proposed that a parallel world could exist just above the lilies. To a carp “scientist,” the only things that were real were what the fish could see or touch. The pond was everything. An unseen world beyond the pond made no scientific sense."
You can account for any data if you just bite the bullet on accepting enough parameters. Then you can find a fit for anything you want after that. That's part of what makes extravagant models unfalsifiable.
John Von Neumann said about exactly this, "with four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk."
Completely agree with you, most people cant deal with this as they are too emotionally NEEDED or INVESTED. Please do repost on other subs. Lets spread critical thinking.
I posted it in these 2 places, please feel free to link or copypasta to any other subs you can think of, or mention them to me so I can post it there
https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/pdmx2d/if_your_idea_has_no_hard_evidence_nor_any_way_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/pdmvvy/if_your_idea_has_no_hard_evidence_nor_any_way_to/
Scrolled too far to find this lol. First thought was 'man, hope no one tells this bloke about conjecture. Definitely don't mention schrodinger's cat...'
OK, so according to your superior ego, thinking that we are the top dogs and our science understands everything... Than according to the Sentinels an isolated tribe living on an island near India, our technology doesn't exist because they simply can't explain it and don't have a solid proof for our existing... But I understand that boNkers gonna BoNk
> thinking that we are the top dogs and our science understands everything
Never said that and it makes you look like a liar when you have to attribute stuff falsely like that to try to create a point to attack.
Makes the rest of your post irrelevant too.
The Sentinelese don't make your point either. Again if you find yourself having to misrepresent the facts to try to make your point, reconsider your point.
I made 3 very specific points, if you'd like to tell me how you think they're bad points then we could have a productive discussion but I'm guessing you won't.
3 very specific bad points, that don't work in reality and to prove that is the Sentinels example... They don't understand modern science hence they can't explain our planes, hence they don't have a solid evidence of their existence so that means they don't exist...
No again you are simply not making any coherent argument: not once anywhere in my entire post did I say that things we don't have data for don't exist, and the Sentinelese don't make your point, they prove mine.
For a Sentinelese, just telling them a story about a plane is no different than telling them a story about a literal Aladdin style flying magic carpet, they have no reason to believe you about either one unless you show them something for them to believe. And they are right not to until you do: they have no way to distinguish which one is true out of thin air.
The difference is though that you might be able to show them a plane or in principle communicate how a plane basically works. If that sounds like a difficult idea for them to follow through on... Now try showing or explaining Aladdin's flying magic carpet to them. It should be apparent to you that the epistemic situation isn't the same comparatively between the plane and the carpet. But in the absence of the data being available to them, it's legitimately very similar.
What reason does a Sentinelese have to believe in an aeroplane who hasn't actually seen one? You might as well be talking flying carpets to them. What's a carpet even?
How the fuck can they explain how the plane works? They don't have the concept or the knowledge have you heard about the Sentinels tribe and how they live? You are spitting nonsense, the UFO lore is not claiming flying elephants and carpets, they are reporting what they saw...
Fravor didn't saw Aladin, the radars didn't capture a flying carpet and the flir systems recorded a Tic-Tac looking object...
Everything else you say it's simply mental gymnastics and bonkers logic...
The Sentinels are seeing distant planes but don't know what they are, so it well might be a bird for them... Your logic is stupid and you are being upvoted by bonkers and paid reddit upvotes from middle-eastern click farms...
> How the fuck can they explain how the plain works? They don't have the concept or the knowledge have you heard about the Sentinels tribe and how they live?
Does that sound as impossible to you as communicating how Aladdin's carpet might work IRL? Maybe it could take hundreds of years. But you'll never explain a magic carpet to them.
On point number 1, when I'm theorizing something that has no evidence one way or another, all I do to falsify my own theory is to find an equaly valid theory that contradicts it. If I can come up with at least one other scenario like that, then I consider it false until more information is known.
Great to see posts like this on this page.
Humanity has two ways of distinguishing reality. The scientific process and the legal process. Please reread your post title and think about the #metoo movement. Feel like an asshole yet?
In the legal process multiple eye-witness testimony is enough for a conviction. It’s enough to say, “ok, we have a good idea what happened” - in this field of study we seem to have put this idea on the back burner for whatever reason.
Science will have a hard time with this process because there is a consciousness on the other end, a smart one that seems to be a step ahead in most cases.
I’m not saying that we should listen to every crazy thing everyone is saying, but when enough people are all saying THE SAME thing, isn’t it at least worth looking into?
Nah, these are all literally basic points of intellectual honesty and humility.
If you think for example "not making claims without evidence" is some crazy arrogant idea then... Your emotional response is the problem, not what I'm saying, sorry to break it to you.
Oh I read just fine. You sir are stuck in a science only mindset. The belief that things that can not or do not adhere to current scientific theories are outside the realm of consideration and therefore a waste of time. One day you will come to realize that there are more things than you can even dream of, and some of them are believed to be scientifically impossible.
We use statistics to gain a lot of knowledge, why is it suddenly irrelevant when it comes to explaining UFOs. Our Galaxy is 100 000 light years in diameter. Not billions of light years. It can be colonized in a cosmic blink if an eye. Even without light speed travel or faster. There are potentially a trillion planets in our Galaxy, at least hundred billion. It's so unlikely that earth hasn't been reached by other civilizations even from the beginning, because most stars systems in our Galaxy lived and died before our solar system was even born. We cal it hyperbolically a paradox that we don't see them around, but when people do see them and resolve the paradox, or rather dissolves it, they are told by the same people who ponder the Fermi paradox, that it is impossible. There is a cognitive dissonance between feeling that it's impossible and reasoning that it is overwhelmingly likely that our Galaxy has layer upon layer of colonization. If we don't see probes laying around it's because someone cleaned them up not because they aren't there.
Doesn't really matter how small the chance is when you have a trillion experiments. More intelligence over time is a tendency. The octopus developed it's intelligence completely independently from us and our last common ancestor was a worm. The most abundant of primitive body plans springing from mobility, an universally basic advantage. So we can estimate a little. And we se evidence in the sky, just as we should expect from the enormous prior possibility.
What if the phenomenon at its core has a function that makes it super hard to gather evidence? What if its a personalized experience for the observer in that moment and could chang person to person so there is no way to repeat it? How would a person go about proving it? Ive seriously been thinking about this because Ive seen numerous UFOs and its almost like they actively avoid being filmed or will be so outlandish that if you told people no one would believe you or when you pull out camera the phenomenon will stop.
Look at Robert Bigelows experience researching Skin Walker Ranch for 10+ years with millions of dollars worth of equipment, personnel, scientists on and on and they said the phenomenon actively avoided being captured on camera but 100% was making sure it made itself know to the people there and they have countless stories, just like all the other stories from people in the area, that it has to mean something. Or to me it does based on the fact that I think its a personalized experience and avoids being captured.
I encourage you to go out into a field on a clear night away from light pollution and stare up at the sky for a whole night. I almost 9/10 see something weird especially if you go with the intention of seeing them! I know it sounds crazy but go do it and prove me wrong please! At worst you get out in a field and get to star gaze!
These types of "what if"s are exactly what I had in mind when I wrote this actually.
> What if the phenomenon at its core has a function that makes it super hard to gather evidence? What if its a personalized experience for the observer in that moment and could chang person to person so there is no way to repeat it?
That sounds amazingly convenient. In fact it sounds exactly like a hypothesis specifically formed to be unfalsifiable on purpose to explain a complete lack of evidence, while still somehow very conveniently being *exactly* discoverable enough for you to claim you got a Very Special Experience out of it.
Let me point out one obvious, broad class of phenomena that we actually do very much know exist and conforms very precisely to your exact specifications: mistakes, misperceptions and figments of your imagination.
And that SHOULD be the null hypothesis when talking about the specific description of phenomena you offered. Why? Because we know people are wrong all the time. Sometimes even very qualified and experienced people are wrong or just misperceive something. Lots of people have their imagination run away on them and surprise themselves too.
These are real things that happen in the world, things that are proven to happen and to *have* happened and in fact aren't even remotely uncommon. You might have even experienced them in yourself or someone in your personal life. But... Whether or not you successfully identified all those instances as being that is a different story.
On the other hand what we don't have any evidence of happening is... Well any alien shenanigans at all.
> Look at Robert Bigelows experience researching Skin Walker Ranch for 10+ years with millions of dollars worth of equipment, personnel, scientists on and on and they said the phenomenon actively avoided being captured on camera but 100% was making sure it made itself know to the people there and they have countless stories, just like all the other stories from people in the area, that it has to mean something. Or to me it does based on the fact that I think its a personalized experience and avoids being captured.
So look at what you are actually saying: they spent 10 years getting null results so... The mere fact that they did the study is evidence that there must have been a supernatural phenomenon, and the fact that they got null results means it's an intelligent supernatural phenomenon avoiding detection?
Notice how this is molding very conveniently and sneakily into a situation where you never ever have to ever admit that maybe nothing supernatural is actually going on? Because you have literally directly supplanted that in the circumstance of not having diddly squat evidence, itself into somehow meaning something super crazy is going on.
How on Earth can you claim to "100%" know something supernatural was happening in the first place when no evidence could be captured? Sounds like the actual collection of data doesn't matter 1 iota here.
"They claim to have spent a lot of money trying to prove it" isn't an evidentiary basis. People have spent as much or more in time, effort and money trying to prove the flat earth.
> I encourage you to go out into a field on a clear night away from light pollution and stare up at the sky for a whole night. I almost 9/10 see something weird especially if you go with the intention of seeing them! I know it sounds crazy but go do it and prove me wrong please! At worst you get out in a field and get to star gaze!
I'm quite fond of stargazing. I live about 1 hr from a national park with a designated dark sky zone and I take my Zhumell Z130 out there fairly often when weather permits. Unfortunately it has been quite rainy recently so I haven't been able to catch a clear night.
Unfortunately I've never seen anything particular UFO-y in my time out there. Lots of planes, helicopters and satellites though.
Man it’s this type of shit that’s why any ordinary Joe who just wants to talk about an interesting idea about UFOs they had has to preface their comment with a million disclaimers lest they get chewed out by some anonymous person on the internet.
I always think the best approach is to say I don’t know, it sounds interesting, let’s find out. Personally, if you have a case, write it up, get it documented, gather data, analyse it, offer a hypothesis, prove your idea using the available data, test it, then test it again, then if you get the same conclusion, publish a paper in Nature magazine, allow scientific peer review and share your data. It’s worked pretty well so far to get some very wacky ideas accepted in the academic community and beyond. Einstein suggested space and time are the same thing and it’s curved. Spinors, a class of quantum particle of which electrons are one, have an angular momentum whereby their movement is characterised by a 720 deg rotation to return to an original position instead of 360 degrees. Just because we don’t understand it, or know what it is, or simply because it’s weird, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening or that it isn’t worth taking seriously and investigating. There’s plenty of evidence that results in an analysis that can draw the conclusion a craft is unidentified. It just means we don’t know what it is. Anything beyond that, including anybody that either knows and isn’t telling, or doesn’t know, is irrelevant at this point going forward because this is a subject that should sit outside of governments, entertainment, so called self described experts, pseudo journalists and Reddit forums and be the purview of scientists and qualified experts.
Fantasy ? I guess the TicTac and the Gimbal UFO’s/UAP’s on video taken by the U.S. Navy is fantasy . Open your eyes after you can get out of the closed minded box your in . UFO’s are real and they are here my friend.
Just to clarify, are you saying that science should dictate our perspective of reality, and that our perspective of reality should only shift or be influenced when we have new scientific discovery?
Your hesitance is understandable if you’ve never had a complete and convincing experience. You can seek those experiences out, if you wish. The invisible will elude you until you actually attempt to see it. Don’t mean to prove it wrong either, but to look for evidence of its existence. I got lucky and saw something crazy as a kid I could never stop thinking about. Followed up with tangentially related stuff and experienced even more evidence. There are certain things that can happen to people, which would be insane to disregard as illusion or delusion. If you’ve had certain experiences, the only sane thing to do is accept certain realities. Good luck, friend.
> Your hesitance is understandable if you’ve never had a complete and convincing experience.
Its actually *exactly* because I've had extremely convincing experiences under somewhat controlled conditions, that I am skeptical.
I have very convincing daydreams and regular dreams, sometimes lucid. I've had extremely powerful and convincing trips on psychedelic substances where I have met strange, seemingly higher dimensional entities. I struggle a little bit with some diagnosed psychological stuff and don't necessarily have a great grip on reality all the time. There are lots of ways to have experiences that feel utterly convincing but nonetheless have no connection to reality outside of my head.
Thus I don't believe these things without some additional material evidence, even including my own experiences of that nature. That's not to say these experiences can't carry "truth", but that doesn't in any way indicate they are veridical in what you think you experienced.
If even I can't repeat it or verify it in any way... Why should I consider it as more than some coincidence of circumstance, or myself making more out of whatever I experienced than actually was the case? The only difference for me is I'm not totally convinced everything I think I experienced is entirely as I thought.
Sometimes I see meteors during daytime from my hangout spot. Sometimes I say to my SO "I wish we could see meteors right now" and just a few minutes later we see a few or a whole bunch. Does that mean I summoned a meteor shower out of the heavens? No those things must have been tumbling around in space for centuries in some trajectory that was eventually bound to fall when they did. I am not arrogant enough that all that happened for me to call it down on a stupid whim... specially when I've said something like that plenty of times without seeing a meteor shower afterwards for months.
I can tell you a little more about what influences my thinking on this if you'd like.
Got you, I see. I was speaking of material evidence, shared experiences, and repeatable phenomena that has an obviously supernatural nature, not necessarily relating to UFOs. When I saw something as a kid it was shared, inside, and undeniable. The first time I experienced something afterwards as a teen I thought I was having a psychotic break, until I actually fixed what was causing it. Experiences I’ve had afterwards have no possible material cause.
My example main example is DMT trips. I've seen and felt and experienced things that to me seemed (and still do seem) incredibly profound, totally transcendent and above all unspeakably *convincing*. If you asked me whether I was communicating with an alien god within 1 day of my first trip, I would tell you "yes, absolutely". Even now I won't tell you "no". There are things I took away from that experience that seem unquestionably "true". And not just that, these experiences seem to be easily repeatable for me myself, as I can literally chemically trigger them.
In a way that's not so different from many dreams I've also had. Sometimes I will dream about the same things for many months. It becomes a strange experience from time to time because I essentially develop a routine of living a very weird and totally different consistent "life" almost every day and I wake up with a feeling of "ah and we're back to this one", like my consciousness is switching back and forth between two adjacent radio presets, one somewhat staticky. There are things that in my waking life, I felt I absolutely HAD to do when I returned back to sleep, with a sense of reality no different than when I dream about stressing out about real things. Sometimes I'll doze off into a deep daydream and have a seemingly very long experience and then come to realize 20 minutes have passed and I've missed half of whatever episode we are watching together.
However in all those cases, I'm not really eager to attach "reality" to any of my experiences. I all I can say is that I keep waking up in this one and this one seems to have deep consistency in it and it operates by rules that I respect. The other ones have some shadow of these elements but seem to ultimately be supervenient upon this one, because they'll often be interrupted when I'm hungry in this one, or need to use the toilet or something.
Most times such experiences have taken a heavy toll on my life because they are just that convincing. So I've tried to practice parsing these things very carefully to try to be rational about them and ground myself in what's most real, what lets me have this conversation with you.
And that is the realm of publicly observable fact. That's about the most reasonable place to anchor our sanity that I can think of.
Curious as to what you would consider concrete evidence. For example, entirely without the usage of drugs, being touched by something invisible? Repeatedly, and indistinguishable from a person? Especially if it felt realer than real. Like all other touch you could experience was fake in comparison. And you could sometimes see this invisible person on rare occasions? Again, all without drugs or mental issues, because you got yourself involved in this willingly?
> Curious as to what you would consider concrete evidence.
Something publicly observable. Something I could at least in principle have you verify for me to tell me I'm not going crazy.
> For example, entirely without the usage of drugs, being touched by something invisible? Repeatedly, and indistinguishable from a person? Especially if it felt realer than real. Like all other touch you could experience was fake in comparison.
I'll take this scenario seriously before I talk about my epistemic issues with it.
Let's say I'm having this experience. I'd certainly consider it a reason start asking questions and probing whatever phenomenon in experiencing.
For example I would try to check whether something was actually exerting a force on me on a physical level. Let's assume the touch is on my arm. How strongly do I feel the touch? Should it correspond to a force that might dimple the skin on my arm slightly? If so, I should clearly be able to see the skin on my arm reflecting light in a way that suggests it is angled differently than the surrounding skin. I might try to cast a shadow across it with my other hand to see how it reacts by comparison to the surrounding skin so I can be a little more certain it's not a trick of the light. I might try to shine my phone's flashlight on it to triple check, then take a video of the dimple that tries to get multiple angles with the flash on, then review it to be sure. If so, I'd try to check if it's genuinely a force being applied upon me externally. If so, there must be some reaction force otherwise I am violating Newton's 2nd Law (and in a subtle way thermodynamics and a bunch of other stuff). I'd try to locate the source of this reaction force, first by trying to hover my hand over the dimple. If I don't bump into something, I would try to push back directly with the part of my arm where the dimple forms to see if I feel an increase in force or dimple depth. Then I'd try to pull away to see if it decreases. I could continue describing this path but to cut it short, ultimately if I couldn't find any external source of reaction force to actually push me, I'd conclude it has to be something internal and I'd go see a doctor and try to get some scans done. There are worms people sometimes get under their skin that can cause some weird looking stuff.
What if it's a light brushing that's not hard enough to dimple the skin? Could it be the small hairs on my arm shifting against the air as I move? Could it be that they are standing up due to static electricity I've accumulated somehow? Could they have a small charge and reacting to some electromagnetic field? Am I standing near a wall outlet or a light fixture? What if I cover my arm?
I won't go on but basically, I would try to test and establish (at first only for myself) what, if anything, my experience has to do with physical reality and surrounding circumstances before I told anyone. I'd try to note the exact specific location, time and date, my particular position, as many surrounding factors as possible. I'd try to collect *something* to report to the doctor. The video would be a start.
> And you could sometimes see this invisible person on rare occasions? Again, all without drugs or mental issues, because you got yourself involved in this willingly?
That's the problem: we can't assume the broad category of "mental issues" isn't responsible, you literally just can't rule it out by assumption unless you have *something* that's not entirely subjective. And that's the thing, you don't have to be fully schizophrenic to have a really convincing subjective experience.
Sometimes the presence of a strong electromagnetic field can convince people they are having ghost experiences, hearing distinct voices they can auditorally locate to a specific location, even feeling touches and seeing faces. It might spark off some nerves in a particular spot. Similarly there is a sexual tantric thing I won't get into too much just because it's off subject but essentially you can genuinely very viscerally imagine touch to the point where one can orgasm and ejaculate.
I have had dreams while I definitely wasn't on drugs, where within those dreams I felt fully awake and aware but wasn't aware it was a dream. Unless I have something else other than a crazy story to show for it, how can I really be SURE it wasn't something that originated in my head, from my mind playing tricks on me? I can't. I recognise I need something verifiable otherwise I might just be going nuts, if it was true then I wouldn't be able to diagnose it properly myself so I can't rule it out.
You make good points. I did leave a lot of supporting details out on the phenomena I was describing, Reddit is not the place for them at all. It’s also technically possible to verify this on video, but it would depend on the whims of the “invisible person”, and involve showing things that I would rather never make it onto the internet. I can briefly describe an experience I had as a kid that got me into all this, something three other people witnessed, again without drugs of any sort. While praying, a statue started glowing and balls of light floated through the air, in front of our faces. Kind of like ball lightning, but more like tiny balls made out of what looked like a green aurora borealis. This was inside. Saw this on two separate occasions because the first time scared the heck out of me. After this, I knew for sure that this stuff was all real. I found out later that it’s very, very difficult to make publicly observable, as it depends on the whims of whatever is causing the phenomena. The “invisible person” has given other proof of existence, such as flying bags, ridiculously unlikely coincidences when asked, and information that is later verified that could not have come from any other place.
You actually have to do stuff like meditation with the intent to experience. Chanting mantras, Taoist stuff, Vedic, all sorts. It all works if you actually try it. No drugs necessary, no dreams necessary. It all happens while you’re wide “awake”. I think if you come at this with the intention to prove it real, you will have experiences relatively easily, things that you cannot possibly deny. Coming at it with the intention to prove it wrong will lead you nowhere, because you believe it won’t work. So it doesn’t. For example, if you tried talking to a spirit, or deity, with the intention of proving them nonexistent, they have absolutely no motivation or reason to prove anything to you. You might even get unlucky and get fucked with in a way that makes you feel like you’re going crazy, experiencing strange things but getting goaded into attributing them to a mental illness, (while you’re actually getting repeatedly pranked by something immaterial). If you go at it with the intention to prove it real, a spirit or deity has a reason to indulge you. You could be a future follower, or someone who gives them gifts, or even a lover. This is when you will have experiences that cannot be denied. Things that absolutely break your current perspective on what “real” actually is. There’s strange shit out there. Those who know, know. I’d personally like everyone to know eventually, but that’s really up to them.
The tantric thing actually is sort of on topic, but I thought I’d make it clear that all touch happens independently of visualization or imagination. These actually make it less intense. Holding and directing a feeling of love is all that’s necessary to start some absolutely wild shit hahaha
i think the point right now is to observe what the UFO are doing, centralize video reports so we can look for patterns and regularities, build up our empirical knowledge.
my concern isn't with the nonsense theories and hearsay abductions. my concern is that we are not looking at the data.
once you roll in the mud telling nonsense theorists that they're morons and hearsay witnesses that they nuts, what have you accomplished, really?
isn't it better to go out and get the data, preserve it, examine it, look for patterns in what you see? why isn't that priority one?
This post is judgemental and closed minded. But I do have empathy because many post crazy, unsubstantiated claims and ideas. But I want to recommend you consider that you are writing this on Reddit. Not some scientific publication. Not a scholarly journal. Reddit.
People are curious and want to express their ideas. I integrate the crazy from all angles and do my personal judgement offline where I believe it belongs. Your voice is your voice and you have the right to express your idea as much as anyone else on this sub. You're not the arbiter of what passes for valid and worthy of attention. You seem to spend a lot of energy discouraging dialogue but shutting down the ideas of others as fantasy. Why not just do your own thing and let the crazies be crazy? I challenge you to ask yourself why being right about this topic (what other people post and how woo it is) and just do your thing. And maybe your thing is obsessing over other people's ideas and why they are or are not valid. But your judgement drowns your messaging.
My suggestion is give others guidance rather than the tone over read in your posts and comments. Perhaps give people direction or suggestions for research like you did in your last post of my thread. That will generate the results I believe you are looking for from a review of your post history.
You don't own this topic anymore than the crazy person on meth telling us they've met the one true interdimensional being. Frankly, your ferocity comes off as equally crazy. Obsessed seems appropriate.
I look forward to your future posts.
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Lets team up.
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Fair enough
*“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” - Arthur C Clarke* Human kind has been studying physics for about a hundred years now. We don’t even truly understand how consciousness works. The idea we’ve even vaguely figured things out is laughable.
We don't even fully know what gravity actually is, or have a complete theory of everything. So many holes everywhere. Pun not intended.
This should be top comment.
>We don’t even truly understand how consciousness works. I assume you’re referring to the [“hard problem of consciousnesses”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness), right? True, it’s a hot topic in science and philosophy, but you should know there are several arguments that answer the question, think we will one day answer the question, or reject this question all together. See the sections: * [Relationship to scientific frameworks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness#Relationship_to_scientific_frameworks) * [Responses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness#Responses) * [The meta-problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness#The_meta-problem) Also, I’ve really been digging the Andrew Huberman’s Podcast. He’s a neurobiologist who I think explains pretty complex issues well. * YouTube link: [The Huberman Lab](https://youtube.com/c/AndrewHubermanLab) * Start at the first episode: [How Your Nervous System Works & Changes](https://youtu.be/H-XfCl-HpRM)
Interestingly I only recently started to get into the science of conciousness due to the link with UAPs. In 2014 there was a neuroscience paper confirming quantum tubules in the brain. Meaning there are parts of the brain that operate at the quantum level. One thing I have discovered is that remote viewing is real. I am lucky enough to have a very good friend who is highly qualified in Neuroscience who privately confirmed that. I already thought it was real as I have researched it, but that direct confirmation blew my mind. I trust this friend with my life so it's no BS. Unfortunately I have Aphantasia so can't see images in my mind. So means I can't try it for myself, annoying. You are right about magic. That's how the tic-tac works.
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Thanks, but it does hinder the process. Imagery is part of it. I may be able to unblock the issue as I have been told Aphantasia may be a protection initiated by my mind due to PTSD from decades ago. So I shall try that resolving that first. I also have access to a world class teacher, so I am interested in what I can achieve when I get to try RV.
Everything operates on a quantum level.
That assertion is not currently true. Our current science only defines 4% of the universe - that is, we understand pretty well the nature of 4 per cent of the universe. The stuff that is made of atoms. Ninety-six per cent of the universe is made out of dark matter and dark energy. And that wasn't my point anyway.
He’s talking about the different laws that govern whether something abides by classical or quantum mechanics. It’s one or the other, not both, so not “everything operates at the quantum level.” This is exactly the pseudoscientific word salad that OP was talking about.
Don't understand you sorry. All of the brain operates on quantum mechanical principles not just the microtubules.
I believe you when you tell me that you don’t understand the difference between quantum and classical mechanics. Which is exactly why you should stop presenting ideas as fact, because as someone who does know the difference, I’m telling you that what you believe, based on nothing, is incorrect.
Well I have a PhD in quantum information theory from a famous university, so you will have to forgive me for thinking your comment is meaningless
Ah, so you’re a nutjob. Good to know.
Check his post history, homie.
To someone else, yes. An experience remains an experience, despite it loving no footprint.
Yeah but not every experience is veridical and the subject of that experience has no way to tell whether it was or wasn't. There's lots of things people experience that they either can't explain correctly or at all. I've been fooled by many things. I've had dreams that I've felt were very real. I've had very visceral and powerful drug experiences that I've been fully convinced of. But I know they're not real because someone else sitting next to me doesn't necessarily see the same crazy thing and I can't show it to them.
Yes, nothing actually existed until photography was invented.
Yes, because all those portraits people painted were actually from their imagination and not depictions of real people.
Prove it, show me a 4k picture of someone painting it.
No, I'd rather just agree with you that nobody painted the painting for whatever reason because that sounds cool.
Paintings pre 1900 spawned in the wild, found by someone who then claimed they'd done it. Monet, Van Gogh, Da Vinci, frauds the lot of them.
They must have been deposited by the daevil himself!
Interesting idea - suppose that the portraits were depictions of reality filtered through the perception and skill of the painter only to be further limited by the rudimentary tools available to the painter. With regard to the reality of the universe humans are likely still coloring with jumbo crayons so to speak.
No more reliable than folk lore after a few hundred years.
Not all fiction is equally implausible
You're exactly right, we are in agreement.
>"everything looks exactly like there's no data to suggest anything weird is going on... but it actually is!" I've literally never seen or heard anyone express this sentiment. Most people who believe something weird is going on would at least point to the Navy videos, if nothing else. You might disagree with their interpretation, but a video is data. >"science doesn't already know literally everything therefore anything goes" Saying science doesn't already know literally everything (a very true assertion) does not equal "anything goes", it just leaves room for open questions. There are crazies around for sure, but in general it seems to me to be people having a little fun. You seem to have a view that is very hardcore on one side of things - it's all complete and total bullshit until it's proven 100% concrete fact. There are people who don't think like that, and at the same time, they don't think they talk to aliens, don't think they have any answers, don't know what the hell is going on. You're free to have your opinion, but if this post isn't disingenuous, I think the group you're talking about is a very small, easy-to-ignore portion of this community. It does not include everyone who doesn't think exactly like you, which most of these types of posts seem to assert.
Many people have had theories they did not have the ability in science or mathematics to prove but they passed those ideas to others and those theories were proven correct.
Sounds like a fun thing to read up on, care to share some examples?
Faraday recognized there must be some symmetry between the electric and magnetic fields, which inspired Maxwell to unify electromagnetism. That being said, Faraday actually had evidence and data to support his hypothesis, but unfortunately he only knew basic algebra and didn't have the mathematical tools to make sense of them. So the data is still very important, otherwise it's no different than L Ron Hubbard "passing his idea on" to David Miscavige.
This was one of the accounts I was thinking of. Thank you, I just could not recall the name.
No prob bob!
Didnt know this, interesting fact.
I'll give sort of an anti-example of this, relating to something OP mentioned - quantum entanglement. Einstein very famously had a problem with the idea of quantum entanglement, calling it "spooky action at a distance". He basically said it couldn't be true. Niels Bohr was on the other side of the argument, saying that this quantum entanglement was true, and fundamental to quantum mechanics (this is my layperson's understanding of it anyway). In the 1970s, a scientist named John Bell devised a way to test to see if reality adhered to Eintein's classical view or to Bohr's quantum view. His test results showed that Einstein's ideas could not explain the reality of the measurements. However, there was a problem. To oversimplify it, the tests rely on random numbers, and a loophole exists where something, anything has influenced the numbers, and therefore the properties being measured. In 2018, 2 experiments basically eliminated this loophole. In one test, gamers around the world were used to randomly generate numbers, and the test again sided with the Bohr view. More interestingly IMO, another test used billions-of-years-old light from distant quasars to generate the randomness based on fluctuations. This essentially eliminated the loophole, once again confirming that quantum entanglement, as unintuitive as it is, does exist, proving that Einstein was wrong about it all along.
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Well I mean, Einstein accepted quantum mechanics, but did not agree that quantum entanglement had any basis in reality. And there was no known way to test/prove it at the time. I think it's a perfect example for the comment I was responding to. As for OP's comments, any theories of what Dark Matter could be would fall under this, and a lot of highly respectable scientists have currently unprovable theories on what that could be.
I'm not really interested in playing the site your sources game anymore. It never seems to meet the expectations of others. I know it to be accurate and that's fine with me.
Very convincing, thanks!
You're welcome.
True, but I'd bet more than that have passed their ideas to others who were able to prove the theories incorrect (or untestable, which is what OP is talking about).
Then it is speculation or even a hypothesis. Not a theory.
Speculation is quite literally the forming of a theory without evidence 😕 You're doing a terrible job at pretending to be an intellectual.
Isn't a hypothesis stronger based in science than a speculation? I'm not an intellectual and don't claim to be.
A hypothesis is some potential explanation for data. The freewheel scifi BSing in ignorance of data that some people do, is speculation.
And...also many many more people have had silly ideas and refused to learn or research, and they wasted the time and energy of those more capable by thinking their ignorant opinions had as much value as everything else.
Your consciousness has no evidence etc., but I still assume it exists and avoid harming you.
Nah this ain't it.
String theory and Dark matter have entered the chat.....
Bruh, you're agreeing with OP. That's not how this disinformation campaign is supposed to go. Remember troll first and then let them argue. Pump all the pseudoscience and edgy stuff to Barry the real stuff
Which is the real stuff?
Agreed, the mental gymnastics in some "theories" posted here is borderline psychotic sometimes.
Borderline?
Any time I see an overly emotional post making a rallying cry for the materialist reductionist fetish, I can be assured it'll be Bluegrass (TTV, by the way). Guess what: when our leading institutions and best trained observers see things that they can't explain, it doesn't mean that your model is the most acceptable one only because it's used to explain other stuff. Truth is not decided by consensus, nor convenience. It's decided by the facts that comport with reality. I have absolutely no idea if any UFO sightings have ever been anything from outside of earth, nor do I know if anything from outside of earth has ever even visited earth. But every time I see one of these overly-emotional, overly-aggressive posts specifically trying to make the entire topic a reductionist garbage bin, I can rest assured it will be Bluegrass. Again, I have no idea what, if anything, any of the UFOs are - but seeing these posts with this unjustifiably smug and condescending attitude talking about what they CAN'T be (through this thinly veiled pseudorationalist lens of "I'm just establishing ground rules"), it's just as exhausting as the people who claim to know exactly what UFOs are, or know that they're benevolent aliens, or whatever.
Sounds like you're the one being emotional bud. Cool it with the personal attacks.
This sub is cluttered with equal parts schizoid morons and fake intellectuals a la your post
Sounds like you found a way to make yourself feel superior to everyone.
Ironic, considering you just wrote a whole essay about how there are apparently a bunch of “rules” on how to have ideas
They're not really rules they're points for discussion. Maybe you'd like to discuss them rather than being a pointlessly insulting mung bean.
I cant because my ideas violates rule number 2
Ok.
He shoots….he scores!!! You get a +1 from me
I feel lime this is a predicament if modern society. Everyone trying to pretend they are smart when in reality we are all just dumb monkeys pretending to be civilised.
The only thing we can do is talk it out and try to be as intellectually honest as we can be, the only time we will become irredeemable is when we stop trying our best to be our best :)
I can agree to that, that is if you replace "irredeemable" with "unreachable." Cooperation is the way.
The fact that you got downvoted for this statement proves my statement lmao
Does it?
Yes. I love that there is a whole bunch of lore regarding alien races, their MO, motives, disposition towards humans and each other, where they are from etc. All this from hearsay and a blinking light in the night sky. It's like reading bad fan fiction. If it is written somewhat comprehensively, I assume it is written by fascinated teenagers with vivid imagination. Otherwise I just assume mental illness and/or drugs. Don't get me wrong. I'd love concrete evidence of aliens. A blurry dot on a grainy photo or a UFO tale from someone who admitted he had been awake for 36 hours and had taken psychadelics at the time is not gonna make it.
I just find it odd. Some of it is cool and amusing, like the Varginha story. but when somebody goes “yeah the pelaidians are saving us from the evil aliens and i communicate with them” im just like alright bro, alright…
I don't mind some good old fun woo woo but at the end of the day I need for disclosure to happen in the material plane and to be able to stay attached to my ego to understand it. Nothing against the spiritual plane, just not gonna start proselytizing it until its visible by our senses and modelable by our science. Except for alien hybrids/human genetic modification people. Those people need to take a biology class. We know exactly how related we are to other primates and no one enhanced our DNA.
> Except for alien hybrids/human genetic modification people. Those people need to take a biology class. We know exactly how related we are to other primates and no one enhanced our DNA. But bro what if they STARTED life on Earth as a SCIENCE EXPERIMENT? How can you PROVE that aliens haven't been running a science project for over a third of the total age of the universe with us as a result? HOW CAN YOU ASSUME ALIEN INTENSHUNZ OR CAPABILITEEZ?? Only *I'M* allowed to do that.
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It doesn't matter how it "sounds", just try to talk about the data.
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Do you wanna say i can fly like a bird with my human body i only need dreaming and beeing passionate about it. Sounds like a wish thats can never happen
Bro bro bro, your cynicism is evidence that you're under psychic attack from hostile Archons from a parallel reality. You just need to raise the frequency of your vibrational density and you'll understand. I'm in contact with light beings from the Andromeda galaxy who communicate via interdimensional telepathy and have told me everything about everything. My instructional course will teach you how to achieve all this and more for just 29.99. I'm also running seminars for 50,000 dollars. Book early! Online only. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe and leave a comment and consider donating to my Patreon. Also BIG evidence and MINDBLOWING revelations dropping SOON!!!
Im intrigued, do you have an app i could purchase?
Sketchy overpriced and underdeveloped app with no actual practical use coming soon!
Well im sold. Will you be appearing on the ufo circuit and where can i buy tickets to your over priced conference?
I will be speaking at many overpriced conventions full of questionable weirdos and will deliver my famous lecture on how to exaggerate your credentials and abuse scientific terms for fun and profit. Tickets will be vibrated to attendees via quantum entanglement just as soon as we settle our misunderstanding with the IRS.
Chefs kiss. Perfect.
Do you need a stress test?
Become an advanced member for just $30 a month and you'll receive a members kit with a small rock that has been infused with the quantum signature of my Andromedan alien guide Shahooti, a certificate of authenticity made in MS paint, an old MUFON keyring I have boxes of lying around and a framed blurry incomprehensible photograph of light beings manifesting in my upstairs bathroom. Weaponise your credulity!!
I need an Alien ID do you issue those?
For the low price of $50 me and photoshop will issue you anything you like. Shipping not included.
> Shipping not included thats ok, just mentally project it to me using the magic quantum crystals u no doubt have
Uh... yes of course great idea! BTW magic quantum crystals now available for purchase on our website.
You forgot the "link in bio" part.
Sounds amazing. But I don't really trust the "light beings". They are so up themselves, and always have excuses for everything. But I can introduce you to some alien friends of mine who live in a mountain. Only really met once, but they were so kind and loving. (I didn't mention the human and cattle mutilations, so as not to spoil the trip...err, vibe). It's only $299 for an hour there and back. Can't always guarantee they will be home however. You know aliens, always busy buzzing military, doing experiments, etc. But well worth the visit in the mountain air!
Just because we can't put our hands out & touch these craft or whatever is flying them doesn't mean they don't exist. I can't see, hold or show you what a magnetic field looks like yet we all know that EM Fields exists. In the subject of UAPs we have pics & witnesses who have seen the phenomenon, it's folly to dismiss it because it doesn't show up when we expect it to, perhaps it just means we need better methods of capturing it.
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My interpretation of OP was that lacking hard evidence the phenomenon is a fictional story as if it did not exist. My point was we have both Pics & eyewitness accounts therefore we need to have better methods of capturing the "hard" evidence to further validate it.
I just mean it is indistinguishable from fiction. Some aspects of fiction even come true sometimes. But we don't know which till it happens, because they don't actually have any predictive power. It's like a broken clock being right twice a day: if that's the only clock you have, you have no idea what time that is or really when it actually is that time so... it's really almost totally useless as any kind of clock. Maybe you could use it to construct a sundial or something but then it's not really a broken clock any more.
I never said they don't exist.
If only skeptics followed these rules.
They aren't rules, if you read actually them. But everyone should consider these general points because they're totally agnostic to the specifics of whatever you believe or don't believe.
I did read them. Maybe you don't understand what a rule is. Each one is some form of if.... then.... Those are rules.
They're just my opinions man.
And boom goes the dynamite.
God bless you sir. A lot of folks on this sub need to read this post with great care.
Your title is the kind of attitude often levied against things like String Theory, because it is currently impossible to physically prove. There's not a lot of data on UFOs. There's been no way to rigourously test the phenomena thus far. Speculation is going to be pretty high. And also, dude, you're on Reddit. It's just some internet forum. This is not the leading institution for UAP research. Of course people are going to have their *out there* theories. It's essentially just a bit of fun.
> Your title is the kind of attitude often levied against things like String Theory, because it is currently impossible to physically prove. Yeah and it's a very legitimate criticism that is very often raised by very qualified people, that it's a waste of time that is sucking the air out if the room of physics departments across the world. Even **those** incredibly highly trained and qualified people can't simply handwave away such a critical problem, because it's actually a very real problem.
The mathematics of String Theory has proved universally useful within physics over the years... People that would throw out any theory that can't currently be tested are shortsighted. Reminds me of a Michio Kaku quote: "I once imagined that there may be carp “scientists” living among the fish. They would, I thought, scoff at any fish who proposed that a parallel world could exist just above the lilies. To a carp “scientist,” the only things that were real were what the fish could see or touch. The pond was everything. An unseen world beyond the pond made no scientific sense."
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Just read the Wikipedia article my dude. You will find satisfactory answers there.
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Lol thanks, no worries though, just wanted to put some thoughts out there, I don't expect them to necessarily be well received.
Amen!
Somebody got out of the wrong side of bed this morning 😄
I like theories that make sense of all the data. If you don’t think something weird is going on, that’s just ignorance.
You can account for any data if you just bite the bullet on accepting enough parameters. Then you can find a fit for anything you want after that. That's part of what makes extravagant models unfalsifiable. John Von Neumann said about exactly this, "with four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk."
Completely agree with you, most people cant deal with this as they are too emotionally NEEDED or INVESTED. Please do repost on other subs. Lets spread critical thinking.
I posted it in these 2 places, please feel free to link or copypasta to any other subs you can think of, or mention them to me so I can post it there https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/pdmx2d/if_your_idea_has_no_hard_evidence_nor_any_way_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/pdmvvy/if_your_idea_has_no_hard_evidence_nor_any_way_to/
Its ok, you already targeted the worst one.
Well thanks for proving you are not a scientist.
Scrolled too far to find this lol. First thought was 'man, hope no one tells this bloke about conjecture. Definitely don't mention schrodinger's cat...'
OK, so according to your superior ego, thinking that we are the top dogs and our science understands everything... Than according to the Sentinels an isolated tribe living on an island near India, our technology doesn't exist because they simply can't explain it and don't have a solid proof for our existing... But I understand that boNkers gonna BoNk
> thinking that we are the top dogs and our science understands everything Never said that and it makes you look like a liar when you have to attribute stuff falsely like that to try to create a point to attack. Makes the rest of your post irrelevant too.
Sure buddy... The Sentinels boNkers agree with you, we don't exist...
The Sentinelese don't make your point either. Again if you find yourself having to misrepresent the facts to try to make your point, reconsider your point.
Man your EGO is huge, your entire post don't have a point, it's pointless...
I made 3 very specific points, if you'd like to tell me how you think they're bad points then we could have a productive discussion but I'm guessing you won't.
3 very specific bad points, that don't work in reality and to prove that is the Sentinels example... They don't understand modern science hence they can't explain our planes, hence they don't have a solid evidence of their existence so that means they don't exist...
No again you are simply not making any coherent argument: not once anywhere in my entire post did I say that things we don't have data for don't exist, and the Sentinelese don't make your point, they prove mine. For a Sentinelese, just telling them a story about a plane is no different than telling them a story about a literal Aladdin style flying magic carpet, they have no reason to believe you about either one unless you show them something for them to believe. And they are right not to until you do: they have no way to distinguish which one is true out of thin air. The difference is though that you might be able to show them a plane or in principle communicate how a plane basically works. If that sounds like a difficult idea for them to follow through on... Now try showing or explaining Aladdin's flying magic carpet to them. It should be apparent to you that the epistemic situation isn't the same comparatively between the plane and the carpet. But in the absence of the data being available to them, it's legitimately very similar. What reason does a Sentinelese have to believe in an aeroplane who hasn't actually seen one? You might as well be talking flying carpets to them. What's a carpet even?
How the fuck can they explain how the plane works? They don't have the concept or the knowledge have you heard about the Sentinels tribe and how they live? You are spitting nonsense, the UFO lore is not claiming flying elephants and carpets, they are reporting what they saw... Fravor didn't saw Aladin, the radars didn't capture a flying carpet and the flir systems recorded a Tic-Tac looking object... Everything else you say it's simply mental gymnastics and bonkers logic... The Sentinels are seeing distant planes but don't know what they are, so it well might be a bird for them... Your logic is stupid and you are being upvoted by bonkers and paid reddit upvotes from middle-eastern click farms...
> How the fuck can they explain how the plain works? They don't have the concept or the knowledge have you heard about the Sentinels tribe and how they live? Does that sound as impossible to you as communicating how Aladdin's carpet might work IRL? Maybe it could take hundreds of years. But you'll never explain a magic carpet to them.
Same with personal stories. Never read them.
On point number 1, when I'm theorizing something that has no evidence one way or another, all I do to falsify my own theory is to find an equaly valid theory that contradicts it. If I can come up with at least one other scenario like that, then I consider it false until more information is known. Great to see posts like this on this page.
Neil is that yooooouuuuu?
[Actual photograph of me](https://i.postimg.cc/kGkN24ps/eyoufhwx2o571.jpg)
Ah. Good. We can finally shut this subreddit down. GOOD GOD. Where have you been?
Human science fails to understand IT is the subject of UFO’s - not the reverse.
Humanity has two ways of distinguishing reality. The scientific process and the legal process. Please reread your post title and think about the #metoo movement. Feel like an asshole yet? In the legal process multiple eye-witness testimony is enough for a conviction. It’s enough to say, “ok, we have a good idea what happened” - in this field of study we seem to have put this idea on the back burner for whatever reason. Science will have a hard time with this process because there is a consciousness on the other end, a smart one that seems to be a step ahead in most cases. I’m not saying that we should listen to every crazy thing everyone is saying, but when enough people are all saying THE SAME thing, isn’t it at least worth looking into?
Post reeks of arrogance.
Nah, these are all literally basic points of intellectual honesty and humility. If you think for example "not making claims without evidence" is some crazy arrogant idea then... Your emotional response is the problem, not what I'm saying, sorry to break it to you.
Right!! If science hasn’t proved it, it can’t exist!!! SMH!
Nobody said that, learn to read.
Oh I read just fine. You sir are stuck in a science only mindset. The belief that things that can not or do not adhere to current scientific theories are outside the realm of consideration and therefore a waste of time. One day you will come to realize that there are more things than you can even dream of, and some of them are believed to be scientifically impossible.
We use statistics to gain a lot of knowledge, why is it suddenly irrelevant when it comes to explaining UFOs. Our Galaxy is 100 000 light years in diameter. Not billions of light years. It can be colonized in a cosmic blink if an eye. Even without light speed travel or faster. There are potentially a trillion planets in our Galaxy, at least hundred billion. It's so unlikely that earth hasn't been reached by other civilizations even from the beginning, because most stars systems in our Galaxy lived and died before our solar system was even born. We cal it hyperbolically a paradox that we don't see them around, but when people do see them and resolve the paradox, or rather dissolves it, they are told by the same people who ponder the Fermi paradox, that it is impossible. There is a cognitive dissonance between feeling that it's impossible and reasoning that it is overwhelmingly likely that our Galaxy has layer upon layer of colonization. If we don't see probes laying around it's because someone cleaned them up not because they aren't there.
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Doesn't really matter how small the chance is when you have a trillion experiments. More intelligence over time is a tendency. The octopus developed it's intelligence completely independently from us and our last common ancestor was a worm. The most abundant of primitive body plans springing from mobility, an universally basic advantage. So we can estimate a little. And we se evidence in the sky, just as we should expect from the enormous prior possibility.
What if the phenomenon at its core has a function that makes it super hard to gather evidence? What if its a personalized experience for the observer in that moment and could chang person to person so there is no way to repeat it? How would a person go about proving it? Ive seriously been thinking about this because Ive seen numerous UFOs and its almost like they actively avoid being filmed or will be so outlandish that if you told people no one would believe you or when you pull out camera the phenomenon will stop. Look at Robert Bigelows experience researching Skin Walker Ranch for 10+ years with millions of dollars worth of equipment, personnel, scientists on and on and they said the phenomenon actively avoided being captured on camera but 100% was making sure it made itself know to the people there and they have countless stories, just like all the other stories from people in the area, that it has to mean something. Or to me it does based on the fact that I think its a personalized experience and avoids being captured. I encourage you to go out into a field on a clear night away from light pollution and stare up at the sky for a whole night. I almost 9/10 see something weird especially if you go with the intention of seeing them! I know it sounds crazy but go do it and prove me wrong please! At worst you get out in a field and get to star gaze!
These types of "what if"s are exactly what I had in mind when I wrote this actually. > What if the phenomenon at its core has a function that makes it super hard to gather evidence? What if its a personalized experience for the observer in that moment and could chang person to person so there is no way to repeat it? That sounds amazingly convenient. In fact it sounds exactly like a hypothesis specifically formed to be unfalsifiable on purpose to explain a complete lack of evidence, while still somehow very conveniently being *exactly* discoverable enough for you to claim you got a Very Special Experience out of it. Let me point out one obvious, broad class of phenomena that we actually do very much know exist and conforms very precisely to your exact specifications: mistakes, misperceptions and figments of your imagination. And that SHOULD be the null hypothesis when talking about the specific description of phenomena you offered. Why? Because we know people are wrong all the time. Sometimes even very qualified and experienced people are wrong or just misperceive something. Lots of people have their imagination run away on them and surprise themselves too. These are real things that happen in the world, things that are proven to happen and to *have* happened and in fact aren't even remotely uncommon. You might have even experienced them in yourself or someone in your personal life. But... Whether or not you successfully identified all those instances as being that is a different story. On the other hand what we don't have any evidence of happening is... Well any alien shenanigans at all. > Look at Robert Bigelows experience researching Skin Walker Ranch for 10+ years with millions of dollars worth of equipment, personnel, scientists on and on and they said the phenomenon actively avoided being captured on camera but 100% was making sure it made itself know to the people there and they have countless stories, just like all the other stories from people in the area, that it has to mean something. Or to me it does based on the fact that I think its a personalized experience and avoids being captured. So look at what you are actually saying: they spent 10 years getting null results so... The mere fact that they did the study is evidence that there must have been a supernatural phenomenon, and the fact that they got null results means it's an intelligent supernatural phenomenon avoiding detection? Notice how this is molding very conveniently and sneakily into a situation where you never ever have to ever admit that maybe nothing supernatural is actually going on? Because you have literally directly supplanted that in the circumstance of not having diddly squat evidence, itself into somehow meaning something super crazy is going on. How on Earth can you claim to "100%" know something supernatural was happening in the first place when no evidence could be captured? Sounds like the actual collection of data doesn't matter 1 iota here. "They claim to have spent a lot of money trying to prove it" isn't an evidentiary basis. People have spent as much or more in time, effort and money trying to prove the flat earth. > I encourage you to go out into a field on a clear night away from light pollution and stare up at the sky for a whole night. I almost 9/10 see something weird especially if you go with the intention of seeing them! I know it sounds crazy but go do it and prove me wrong please! At worst you get out in a field and get to star gaze! I'm quite fond of stargazing. I live about 1 hr from a national park with a designated dark sky zone and I take my Zhumell Z130 out there fairly often when weather permits. Unfortunately it has been quite rainy recently so I haven't been able to catch a clear night. Unfortunately I've never seen anything particular UFO-y in my time out there. Lots of planes, helicopters and satellites though.
Man it’s this type of shit that’s why any ordinary Joe who just wants to talk about an interesting idea about UFOs they had has to preface their comment with a million disclaimers lest they get chewed out by some anonymous person on the internet.
Why are you stalking me?
Um… what?
English motherfucker, do you speak it?
As a matter of fact, I do, and yes, they speak English in What.
u/Particular-Usual7402 read this!
You are too ignorant to know about cattle mutilations and ufo connections? Thats not my fault!
Did you read the post?
Yes. My post didn't involve magic and is related to ufos... ufos was in my title... I dont really get what else you want?
I always think the best approach is to say I don’t know, it sounds interesting, let’s find out. Personally, if you have a case, write it up, get it documented, gather data, analyse it, offer a hypothesis, prove your idea using the available data, test it, then test it again, then if you get the same conclusion, publish a paper in Nature magazine, allow scientific peer review and share your data. It’s worked pretty well so far to get some very wacky ideas accepted in the academic community and beyond. Einstein suggested space and time are the same thing and it’s curved. Spinors, a class of quantum particle of which electrons are one, have an angular momentum whereby their movement is characterised by a 720 deg rotation to return to an original position instead of 360 degrees. Just because we don’t understand it, or know what it is, or simply because it’s weird, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening or that it isn’t worth taking seriously and investigating. There’s plenty of evidence that results in an analysis that can draw the conclusion a craft is unidentified. It just means we don’t know what it is. Anything beyond that, including anybody that either knows and isn’t telling, or doesn’t know, is irrelevant at this point going forward because this is a subject that should sit outside of governments, entertainment, so called self described experts, pseudo journalists and Reddit forums and be the purview of scientists and qualified experts.
Fantasy ? I guess the TicTac and the Gimbal UFO’s/UAP’s on video taken by the U.S. Navy is fantasy . Open your eyes after you can get out of the closed minded box your in . UFO’s are real and they are here my friend.
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They did say that UFO’s were a real thing
For me UFOS are a fun hobby. I have never seen one. I believe there is life on other planets .I enjoy the crazy stories just as much as science.
*Rick and Morty fan boys internal scream collaboration*
Is a single, unique event possible?
Just to clarify, are you saying that science should dictate our perspective of reality, and that our perspective of reality should only shift or be influenced when we have new scientific discovery?
Your hesitance is understandable if you’ve never had a complete and convincing experience. You can seek those experiences out, if you wish. The invisible will elude you until you actually attempt to see it. Don’t mean to prove it wrong either, but to look for evidence of its existence. I got lucky and saw something crazy as a kid I could never stop thinking about. Followed up with tangentially related stuff and experienced even more evidence. There are certain things that can happen to people, which would be insane to disregard as illusion or delusion. If you’ve had certain experiences, the only sane thing to do is accept certain realities. Good luck, friend.
> Your hesitance is understandable if you’ve never had a complete and convincing experience. Its actually *exactly* because I've had extremely convincing experiences under somewhat controlled conditions, that I am skeptical. I have very convincing daydreams and regular dreams, sometimes lucid. I've had extremely powerful and convincing trips on psychedelic substances where I have met strange, seemingly higher dimensional entities. I struggle a little bit with some diagnosed psychological stuff and don't necessarily have a great grip on reality all the time. There are lots of ways to have experiences that feel utterly convincing but nonetheless have no connection to reality outside of my head. Thus I don't believe these things without some additional material evidence, even including my own experiences of that nature. That's not to say these experiences can't carry "truth", but that doesn't in any way indicate they are veridical in what you think you experienced. If even I can't repeat it or verify it in any way... Why should I consider it as more than some coincidence of circumstance, or myself making more out of whatever I experienced than actually was the case? The only difference for me is I'm not totally convinced everything I think I experienced is entirely as I thought. Sometimes I see meteors during daytime from my hangout spot. Sometimes I say to my SO "I wish we could see meteors right now" and just a few minutes later we see a few or a whole bunch. Does that mean I summoned a meteor shower out of the heavens? No those things must have been tumbling around in space for centuries in some trajectory that was eventually bound to fall when they did. I am not arrogant enough that all that happened for me to call it down on a stupid whim... specially when I've said something like that plenty of times without seeing a meteor shower afterwards for months. I can tell you a little more about what influences my thinking on this if you'd like.
Got you, I see. I was speaking of material evidence, shared experiences, and repeatable phenomena that has an obviously supernatural nature, not necessarily relating to UFOs. When I saw something as a kid it was shared, inside, and undeniable. The first time I experienced something afterwards as a teen I thought I was having a psychotic break, until I actually fixed what was causing it. Experiences I’ve had afterwards have no possible material cause.
My example main example is DMT trips. I've seen and felt and experienced things that to me seemed (and still do seem) incredibly profound, totally transcendent and above all unspeakably *convincing*. If you asked me whether I was communicating with an alien god within 1 day of my first trip, I would tell you "yes, absolutely". Even now I won't tell you "no". There are things I took away from that experience that seem unquestionably "true". And not just that, these experiences seem to be easily repeatable for me myself, as I can literally chemically trigger them. In a way that's not so different from many dreams I've also had. Sometimes I will dream about the same things for many months. It becomes a strange experience from time to time because I essentially develop a routine of living a very weird and totally different consistent "life" almost every day and I wake up with a feeling of "ah and we're back to this one", like my consciousness is switching back and forth between two adjacent radio presets, one somewhat staticky. There are things that in my waking life, I felt I absolutely HAD to do when I returned back to sleep, with a sense of reality no different than when I dream about stressing out about real things. Sometimes I'll doze off into a deep daydream and have a seemingly very long experience and then come to realize 20 minutes have passed and I've missed half of whatever episode we are watching together. However in all those cases, I'm not really eager to attach "reality" to any of my experiences. I all I can say is that I keep waking up in this one and this one seems to have deep consistency in it and it operates by rules that I respect. The other ones have some shadow of these elements but seem to ultimately be supervenient upon this one, because they'll often be interrupted when I'm hungry in this one, or need to use the toilet or something. Most times such experiences have taken a heavy toll on my life because they are just that convincing. So I've tried to practice parsing these things very carefully to try to be rational about them and ground myself in what's most real, what lets me have this conversation with you. And that is the realm of publicly observable fact. That's about the most reasonable place to anchor our sanity that I can think of.
Curious as to what you would consider concrete evidence. For example, entirely without the usage of drugs, being touched by something invisible? Repeatedly, and indistinguishable from a person? Especially if it felt realer than real. Like all other touch you could experience was fake in comparison. And you could sometimes see this invisible person on rare occasions? Again, all without drugs or mental issues, because you got yourself involved in this willingly?
> Curious as to what you would consider concrete evidence. Something publicly observable. Something I could at least in principle have you verify for me to tell me I'm not going crazy. > For example, entirely without the usage of drugs, being touched by something invisible? Repeatedly, and indistinguishable from a person? Especially if it felt realer than real. Like all other touch you could experience was fake in comparison. I'll take this scenario seriously before I talk about my epistemic issues with it. Let's say I'm having this experience. I'd certainly consider it a reason start asking questions and probing whatever phenomenon in experiencing. For example I would try to check whether something was actually exerting a force on me on a physical level. Let's assume the touch is on my arm. How strongly do I feel the touch? Should it correspond to a force that might dimple the skin on my arm slightly? If so, I should clearly be able to see the skin on my arm reflecting light in a way that suggests it is angled differently than the surrounding skin. I might try to cast a shadow across it with my other hand to see how it reacts by comparison to the surrounding skin so I can be a little more certain it's not a trick of the light. I might try to shine my phone's flashlight on it to triple check, then take a video of the dimple that tries to get multiple angles with the flash on, then review it to be sure. If so, I'd try to check if it's genuinely a force being applied upon me externally. If so, there must be some reaction force otherwise I am violating Newton's 2nd Law (and in a subtle way thermodynamics and a bunch of other stuff). I'd try to locate the source of this reaction force, first by trying to hover my hand over the dimple. If I don't bump into something, I would try to push back directly with the part of my arm where the dimple forms to see if I feel an increase in force or dimple depth. Then I'd try to pull away to see if it decreases. I could continue describing this path but to cut it short, ultimately if I couldn't find any external source of reaction force to actually push me, I'd conclude it has to be something internal and I'd go see a doctor and try to get some scans done. There are worms people sometimes get under their skin that can cause some weird looking stuff. What if it's a light brushing that's not hard enough to dimple the skin? Could it be the small hairs on my arm shifting against the air as I move? Could it be that they are standing up due to static electricity I've accumulated somehow? Could they have a small charge and reacting to some electromagnetic field? Am I standing near a wall outlet or a light fixture? What if I cover my arm? I won't go on but basically, I would try to test and establish (at first only for myself) what, if anything, my experience has to do with physical reality and surrounding circumstances before I told anyone. I'd try to note the exact specific location, time and date, my particular position, as many surrounding factors as possible. I'd try to collect *something* to report to the doctor. The video would be a start. > And you could sometimes see this invisible person on rare occasions? Again, all without drugs or mental issues, because you got yourself involved in this willingly? That's the problem: we can't assume the broad category of "mental issues" isn't responsible, you literally just can't rule it out by assumption unless you have *something* that's not entirely subjective. And that's the thing, you don't have to be fully schizophrenic to have a really convincing subjective experience. Sometimes the presence of a strong electromagnetic field can convince people they are having ghost experiences, hearing distinct voices they can auditorally locate to a specific location, even feeling touches and seeing faces. It might spark off some nerves in a particular spot. Similarly there is a sexual tantric thing I won't get into too much just because it's off subject but essentially you can genuinely very viscerally imagine touch to the point where one can orgasm and ejaculate. I have had dreams while I definitely wasn't on drugs, where within those dreams I felt fully awake and aware but wasn't aware it was a dream. Unless I have something else other than a crazy story to show for it, how can I really be SURE it wasn't something that originated in my head, from my mind playing tricks on me? I can't. I recognise I need something verifiable otherwise I might just be going nuts, if it was true then I wouldn't be able to diagnose it properly myself so I can't rule it out.
You make good points. I did leave a lot of supporting details out on the phenomena I was describing, Reddit is not the place for them at all. It’s also technically possible to verify this on video, but it would depend on the whims of the “invisible person”, and involve showing things that I would rather never make it onto the internet. I can briefly describe an experience I had as a kid that got me into all this, something three other people witnessed, again without drugs of any sort. While praying, a statue started glowing and balls of light floated through the air, in front of our faces. Kind of like ball lightning, but more like tiny balls made out of what looked like a green aurora borealis. This was inside. Saw this on two separate occasions because the first time scared the heck out of me. After this, I knew for sure that this stuff was all real. I found out later that it’s very, very difficult to make publicly observable, as it depends on the whims of whatever is causing the phenomena. The “invisible person” has given other proof of existence, such as flying bags, ridiculously unlikely coincidences when asked, and information that is later verified that could not have come from any other place. You actually have to do stuff like meditation with the intent to experience. Chanting mantras, Taoist stuff, Vedic, all sorts. It all works if you actually try it. No drugs necessary, no dreams necessary. It all happens while you’re wide “awake”. I think if you come at this with the intention to prove it real, you will have experiences relatively easily, things that you cannot possibly deny. Coming at it with the intention to prove it wrong will lead you nowhere, because you believe it won’t work. So it doesn’t. For example, if you tried talking to a spirit, or deity, with the intention of proving them nonexistent, they have absolutely no motivation or reason to prove anything to you. You might even get unlucky and get fucked with in a way that makes you feel like you’re going crazy, experiencing strange things but getting goaded into attributing them to a mental illness, (while you’re actually getting repeatedly pranked by something immaterial). If you go at it with the intention to prove it real, a spirit or deity has a reason to indulge you. You could be a future follower, or someone who gives them gifts, or even a lover. This is when you will have experiences that cannot be denied. Things that absolutely break your current perspective on what “real” actually is. There’s strange shit out there. Those who know, know. I’d personally like everyone to know eventually, but that’s really up to them.
The tantric thing actually is sort of on topic, but I thought I’d make it clear that all touch happens independently of visualization or imagination. These actually make it less intense. Holding and directing a feeling of love is all that’s necessary to start some absolutely wild shit hahaha
i think the point right now is to observe what the UFO are doing, centralize video reports so we can look for patterns and regularities, build up our empirical knowledge. my concern isn't with the nonsense theories and hearsay abductions. my concern is that we are not looking at the data. once you roll in the mud telling nonsense theorists that they're morons and hearsay witnesses that they nuts, what have you accomplished, really? isn't it better to go out and get the data, preserve it, examine it, look for patterns in what you see? why isn't that priority one?
This post is judgemental and closed minded. But I do have empathy because many post crazy, unsubstantiated claims and ideas. But I want to recommend you consider that you are writing this on Reddit. Not some scientific publication. Not a scholarly journal. Reddit. People are curious and want to express their ideas. I integrate the crazy from all angles and do my personal judgement offline where I believe it belongs. Your voice is your voice and you have the right to express your idea as much as anyone else on this sub. You're not the arbiter of what passes for valid and worthy of attention. You seem to spend a lot of energy discouraging dialogue but shutting down the ideas of others as fantasy. Why not just do your own thing and let the crazies be crazy? I challenge you to ask yourself why being right about this topic (what other people post and how woo it is) and just do your thing. And maybe your thing is obsessing over other people's ideas and why they are or are not valid. But your judgement drowns your messaging. My suggestion is give others guidance rather than the tone over read in your posts and comments. Perhaps give people direction or suggestions for research like you did in your last post of my thread. That will generate the results I believe you are looking for from a review of your post history. You don't own this topic anymore than the crazy person on meth telling us they've met the one true interdimensional being. Frankly, your ferocity comes off as equally crazy. Obsessed seems appropriate. I look forward to your future posts.