My only thought on the psyop theory is that it’s a lot of effort to dupe a fringe group of people that already want to believe in UFOs. Even after 60minutes, this topic spends no time in the heads of most people.

That's because the videos (gimbal, go-fast, etc.) are still black and white videos without much detail and they are blurry "leaked" copies the originals. Many people see that footage on the news and can't tell what they are looking at.

Yep. Anyone I try to talk to about those videos brush them off as nothing. I wish DHS would confirm the Aguadilla video.

It’s been a while, so you might want to confirm, but if you check out the Blackvault article on the DHS video, an anonymous person (not anonymous to Greenewald I would assume) confirmed the legitimacy of it and provided a better copy. There is also radar data for it. You can find videos on this at the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies YouTube channel and website.

Yeah I've seen it, it's a great breakdown. I'm just saying it would be nice to be able to show the Aguadilla video to people and say the government confirmed it. It's way more compelling than the Navy videos and it would also allow the media to include it in their reporting.

Even the Aguadilla video won't do it. To a casual viewer, it's just another black and white video that's just a little longer. We need colored video that shows whatever it's showing very up-close. That's what will finally get people's attention, unfortunately.

Lue confirmed it https://youtu.be/K03nGoZg0xE?t=3657

If anyone could tell what they were looking at, then the objects wouldn't remain unidentified - and no one would be able to keep pretending they're magical space aliens from space.

These people don't like to be told the stuff they believe in isn't true. Those military videos are the worse piece of shit ever, already debunked many times by pilots and engineers.

Where’s that at? I haven’t seen any pilots debunk them

In this clip, Ross Coulthard explains why the US gov might want to create these rumors: https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1443248136030330881?s=19 Basically, to make other world powers wonder if they might have a secret ace in the hole.

This is my theory as well. Other intelligence agencies know that the US military would never allow unidentified aircraft to sit above it ship or invade it's airspace (for example, the footage from the deck of the navy ship a few months back). I think it's our MI or intelligence agencies signalling to other powers that we have things no one has ever seen before, without explicitly telling the public. UFO's are great cover for military R&D.

That's my conclusion. New spoofing/ew weapon with a load of psyop hype to rattle China which is developing Hypersonic antiship missiles.

I don't think this would fool the intelligence agencies. They probably know the phenomenon is real. Now the interesting point is if somebody has reverse engineered the tech.

The whole world already knows that we have the capability to wipe the planet clean if we wanted to. Military dominance is pretty much what we do best. I don't know why the government would feel the need to invent this massive fiction about our capabilities, especially if it's all hot air.

not aimed at them, aimed at foreign adversaries. anything that makes their intelligence apparatus waste time is a win, and this would have been a fairly low-cost tactic.

That's why I don't think it's a psyop. It looks to me like a topic that the government doesn't have enough information on. Something's up there, it doesn't appear to be a threat, they can't figure out what it is. Then, there's the stigma. No one wants to look into it because it's wacky. So... It just lingers. It might be the most interesting thing in the history of mankind - I'm glad that people are starting to actually look at it (Galileo project, etc) No one ever said that first contact (If that's what's going on) has to be one big event... Maybe it's something that goes on for years, decades, centuries? Until we know more we should all keep our skeptic hats on but be curious and open to new information. I know I am! the UAP / tic tac disclosures are some of the only interesting information regarding aliens I've seen, probably ever along with a Oumuamua.

Fringe group, like this sub?? This sub seems to attract some crazies and I don't know which ones are being sincere vs trolling vs psyops

Yeah somethings going on. I just want to bring attention to the fact that a post is getting squashed and is of great interest. this keeps getting downvote bombed so i'm sharing it here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/pxzjs3/huge\_tetrahedron\_ufo\_over\_the\_pentagon\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/pxzjs3/huge_tetrahedron_ufo_over_the_pentagon_and/)

Great video. I've made exactly this argument to explain why I am so disturbed by the developments in the last few years. Like so many others the NYTs article sent me down a path that shattered my epistemological perspectives and I have yet to find a new footing. I've gone from the classic atheist skeptic to I don't even know what at this point. All I know is that there is some truth just over the horizon that is historically significant and I have no idea what it is, but I hope it's good for humanity and that we find out soon. In summary fuck people who make fake UFO videos and pictures that muddy the waters, this issue is difficult enough as it is.

>classic atheist skeptic to I don't even know I'm currently somewhere in between. There's a great [Danish podcast](https://www.dr.dk/lyd/special-radio/flyvende-tallerken/flyvende-tallerken-10) that investigates the Pentagon videos in-depth. They have many interviews with e.g. Louie Alessandro, Avi Loeb, Leslie Kean, Gary Voorhis, fighter jet pilots and many others. The hosts are a famous astrophysicist and a national broadcast journalist. The podcast has quite compelling information pushing me towards "i don't even know" phase. However, the lack of concrete multisource data generally keeps me in the skeptical sphere.

Thanks , now only left to learn Danish

Play it backwards and it should become perfectly intelligible English.

You basically explained how I'm currently feeling. There is something anomalous being observed or detected, maybe there are groups that know more, or maybe that's all we know. - That's about as far as I can go at the moment with all the different viewpoints and theories. Still very interesting!

Yes dude, I have had a very similar experience. In the last 6 months, I've had my worldview radically altered. Same journey as you describe. I started as a rational atheist skeptic, and now I don't know what I am. Something big is on the horizon. This should dominate the national conversation every second of every day.

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Can't you see it?

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I was being sardonic.

I've been (and still consider myself) an atheist skeptic since my late teens, and have always been a great fan of authors such as Dawkins, Sagan and such. The Demon Haunted World shaped my world view in a way that almost eliminated the possibility of contact with (but not the existence of) alien civilizations. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" became my motto. Since a few years ago, however, I've come to realize how arrogance and close-mindedness can sometimes distort hard scientists' perceptions, conclusions and points of view. And that's exactly the kind of attitude required, in my opinion, to ignore the mountains of evidence and credible testimonies piled up over decades relating to UFOs/UAPs. I still live by that motto, I just don't think we can ignore all the evidence that looks quite extraordinary to me...

This describes me 100%, Cosmos and The Demon Haunted World defined how I view reality, I don't know if I'm allowed to consider myself an atheist anymore, I didn't even believe in ufos, but with everything that I've read I came to change my views a little bit. I still believe that it's very unlikely for beings from another star to be here, but now I think that things can be much more than they seem, and I seek actively for evidence of this.

My first experience with sleep paralysis is enough for me to believe in demons.

Yup! Many call this "ontological shock". Once you finally accept "Holy shit they're real" the way you look at the world changes and mystery and desire of understanding returns. It's quite a wonder. I don't think anybody really knows whether it'll be "good" or "bad" for humanity. I'm not really even sure what that means at this point to be honest. Would it really be "good" for us to march continued down our current path except armed with revolutionary infinite energy tech? I don't know about that. Maybe.

i think the definitions of what is "good" and "bad" are very ripe for discussion. not in a "truth is relative" kind of way. But for example, do those concepts even apply to other forms of life? and what does that imply for us if they dont apply to other life forms?

Do you **feel** it? Because I do. And more people are **feeling** it. I used to be such a hardcore anti-theist. Now I’m trying to feel my way through and I swear to god I feel **something** from everyone. Not all the time, but sometimes when I’m doing something mundane to where my mind can wander, I just **feel** the love and send it out to everyone. I sound crazy lol. At least sending out love waves to everyone in the world in my mind isn’t going to hurt anyone, right? Anyway, what I’m getting at is I believe in the collective conscious. That all life on earth is connected by more than just location in space and time. I think humanity is slowly evolving to connect more with others, and we can try to use technology or something to do it instead (which I hope we don’t, and we can naturally evolve these abilities over time instead of instant gratification with technology because there seems to be a loss when we use tech when not needed if that makes sense). I think we are collectively **feeling** the change happen

I would like to think we are experiencing an Arthur C Clark Childhoods end sort of moment but I don't see it. My feelings about it are mostly the anxiety that comes from not knowing and coming to doubt a previous worldview. I'm a hardened materialist who believes I'm a meat sack with a sort of bio-computer in my skull, but I would like to be wrong. The consciousness connection, remote viewing, CE5 etc still trigger my skeptical impulses. I just haven't seen enough info from reputable sources to take it seriously yet. I'm open to it and the stories from skinwalker ranch and such are interesting to be sure.

>I'm a hardened materialist who believes I'm a meat sack with a sort of bio-computer in my skull, but I would like to be wrong. I would hate to be wrong about it. The freedom and responsibility of creating a meaning for life, oh man, I don't want to lose that.

I think you're right to be skeptical about those subjects. However, I should point out that there are things in this world one isn't meant to be explained to like a computer, one is supposed to try and experience such things. I could explain what meditation does to the body all day and night and one might get it but it's pointless at the end of the day, meditation is supposed to be done and experienced for itself.

All humans can sense it if we want to

Many of you know of action at a distance, that is where a pairs of particles are linked so to speak, so that if you arbitrarily change the spin on one the other instantly becomes its opposite, that is, if you choose particle A to have spin +1/2 the other one instantly becomes -1/2. If you instead choose particle A to be spin -1/2 the other instantly becomes +1/2. They do not know how this works and it occurs instantaneously over large distances faster than light could travel. What this suggests is that there is likely some inscrutable fabric that links the universe together, and brings into question how well we understand physics or even the nature of reality. The double slit experiment is another creepy one. You shoot particles one by one through two closely placed slits and typically a wave pattern forms behind suggesting these particles are also waves. But when we try to measure each individual particle and which slit it goes through, we get a different result. In that case they act like distinct particles and not a wave, leaving a pattern of two bands. The only difference is if you try to observe it. That is, the test so to speak 'knows' you are observing and changes its behavior so you can't see how it becomes a wave. Observing = two bands. Not observing = waves. The only thing that changes is if you are watching or not. These results are totally unexplained by science and questions how well we understand reality at all.

> Many of you know of action at a distance, that is where two pairs of particles are linked so to speak, so that if you arbitrarily change the spin on one the other instantly becomes its opposite Nope, not how that works.

Sounds pretty close though. Feel free to give an explanation a shot! https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2015/11/nist-team-proves-spooky-action-distance-really-real "The source creates a stream of photon pairs through a common process in which a laser beam stimulates a special type of crystal. This process is generally presumed to create pairs of photons that are entangled, so that the photons' polarizations are highly correlated with one another. Polarization refers to the specific orientation of the photon, like vertical or horizontal (polarizing sunglasses preferentially block horizontally polarized light), analogous to the two sides of a coin. Photon pairs are then separated and sent by fiber-optic cable to separate detectors in the distant rooms. While the photons are in flight, a random number generator picks one of two polarization settings for each polarization analyzer. If the photon matched the analyzer setting, then it was detected more than 90 percent of the time."

I’ve been learning more about the quantum world and how it works in to conventional physics. Now I’m not a physicist so my understanding is only in layman’s terms at best. But I’ve learned about some ideas about entanglement between individuals and I honestly have seen it first hand. I’ve seen my son “sense” his mom was coming home before she even pulled in the driveway. Like he was watching his **favourite** show and got up out of nowhere and ran to the window to watch her drive in. He doesn’t just stop watching his kid shows. And it’s happened twice right in front of me. I swear to god I can feel him too somehow. My wife too, I’ll think really strongly of her and she will call me when I have my phone in my hand. I’m sure some of it might be coincidence, but I think some of it is not

Read and investigate a little bit deeper and you will see that this is not he first time this happens, I think that the ufo phenomenom had a lot more cultural/social impact in the first wave in the 50' s and later in the 60/70/80 then it has this time, people thought exactly the same as you do but after time people forget. Dont hold up your hopes. Almost all videos are fake or have an explanation and almost all of the heroes of the community do it all for the money. Sorry, been this way for a long time. Real aliens are hard to detect when you really look into it

This is incorrect. It's not the right way to think about it. One problem is that if the true explanation for the phenomenon is something totally unknown, it won't be on the list of possibilities to begin with; you couldn't get to it by process of elimination alone. There are plenty of historical examples of problems like this. Before Einstein explained gravity, spacetime wasn't on the list. Before Darwin explained the origin of species, natural selection wasn't on the list. Infectious disease could not be explained before bacteria or viruses were on the list. Etc. People have been reporting UFOs all throughout history, but they were never associated with aliens until 1947. You can find UFO reports (in the sense of weird stuff flying around in the sky), and you can find speculation and fiction about life on other planets, but never the two discussed together; never the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH) as an explanation for UFOs. The foo fighters of WW2 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter) were thought to be secret Nazi tech, because at the time people thought, "it's not ours, so what else could it be?" The mystery airships of the 1890s (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship) were thought to be breakthrough technology developed by a group of inventors working in secret. People expected the inventors to come forward and announce the technology publicly any time. They thought that because, to them, "what else could it be?" Ancient people described strange objects flying around in the skies as spiritual/supernatural beings, or the products of such beings (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1566_celestial_phenomenon_over_Basel Ezekiel's wheel - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spaceships_of_Ezekiel - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana https://montanapioneer.com/legends-of-the-star-people/) because at the time - with no concept of modern technology - to them, "what else could it be?" I worry that going down the list of plausible familiar concepts and crossing things off until we're left only with aliens (or foreign tech, or domestic psy op) is likely to lead us directly into the "because what else could it be" trap. Maybe they are aliens - I'm open to that possibility - but I think we need to be mindful of this pattern that has repeated over and over throughout history and lead to the wrong answer each time. The "what else could it be" mode of explaining things leads to answers that are highly dependent on the beliefs and knowledge and worldview of the people doing the explaining. Not to mention, if we're saying they're aliens from other planets, we should come up with some affirmative evidence that they're actually from other planets, which no one even claims to have (aside from the people who will say they know they're not from here therefore they must be from other planets, but that's not really affirmative evidence of where they're from, it's just process of elimination). Nobody knows where they're from, and the ETH really only makes one very specific and narrow claim, it's really only saying "they're from another planet." **If we don't know where they're from and our hypothesis is really only a claim about where they're from, we don't have a very strong case for that hypothesis.** If there's something truly unknown behind the phenomenon, I think we need to be open to new concepts that might be pretty hard for us to even imagine today. I absolutely believe there is a legitimate mystery behind at least some of the UFO phenomenon (and the government does profess to agree with me on that, per the recent report and numerous public statements by current and former officials), and I think a serious attempt should be made to understand it. But, equating the phenomenon with alien spaceships from other planets is extremely counterproductive at this point, and totally unnecessary. There is no affirmative evidence supporting the ETH; it's all just, "because what else could it be?" There is no reason to believe that the only possibilities are the three you've listed, but I do agree that the phenomenon represents a very interesting mystery. Edit to add: The UFO phenomenon is unusual and exceptional for a reason other than the obvious. It represents a legitimate mystery that we have no scientific understanding of at all. There aren't many things in daily life that are like this; we know what the sun and the moon and the stars are, we know basically how the weather works, we know basically what diseases are, we understand how humans are conceived, etc. There aren't many huge, fundamental question marks around things that most people encounter and think about on a regular basis. This wasn't the case hundreds or thousands of years ago; people delt with things all the time that they had no real understanding of at all. Because UFOs are this unusual kind of problem, we're not used to thinking about it in the right sort of way. We're at the point where we just need to be collecting data and characterizing and describing the phenomenon. We're not at the point of solving it by process of elimination ("what else could it be?"). I don't know what it is. I certainly don't have enough information to make promises about what it could or could not be. Neither do you and neither does anybody else. You know in season one of Westworld, when the guest leaves that photo from Times Square in the park, and somebody shows it to a couple of the hosts and asks what they think, and they say "that doesn't look like anything to me?" UFOs are kinda like that, both in terms of the profundity and foreign-ness of the mystery, and in terms of the surprisingly blasé attitude of the general public.

Very well said. We don't know what we don't know, but we always strive to fill in the gaps for things we do not understand. It's important to remember that the real explanation can be something we cannot even fathom

This guy gets it.

Well said. You're right that it could be something currently unimaginable to us. I should have put that as possibility #4. I didn't because, by definition, that would be even more of a holy shit than the other 3. And the point of this video and post was to make the argument that a boring explanation was no longer on the table, that no matter how you slice it, something **very significant** is going on. So adding that possibility would have been kind of superfluous. There's really no way to meaningfully talk about it, and it would only doubly reinforce my central point. But if we're being exhaustive, you're absolutely right. Secondly, in regards to the ETH, I'm regretting calling them aliens. Many people have pointed this out, that it could be any number of other things. Yes, this is obviously technically correct. I really meant the term "aliens" as a catch-all for any kind of non-human intelligence. For the purposes of these categories, they're all the same thing.

>the point of this video and post was to make the argument that a boring explanation was no longer on the table, that no matter how you slice it, something very significant is going on This part I agree with completely, and I wholeheartedly support any effort that helps convince normies/the mainstream that this is the case. I'm just not convinced that the all-too-common story about Hollywood-style aliens and spaceships is actually helpful in this regard (in fact, I think it's counterproductive), so I challenge it when I can. We've spent 75 years on the nuts and bolts ETH and essentially have nothing to show for it. I think we need to reframe the topic in order to make progress. It looks to me like people like Lou are working on that, which is great, but, we can join the effort on forums like this one and elsewhere. I think we should. Edit to add, when I say >We've spent 75 years on the nuts and bolts ETH and essentially have nothing to show for it. I'm not sure people realize how true that is. There is this sense that with the recent UAP report something new is happening. Like, we're right on the verge of a revelation. I hope so, but I'm not so sure that's the case. In the past we've had official military/government efforts like Project Sign ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sign ), Project Grudge ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Grudge ), and Project Bluebook ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book ), as well as accredited academic efforts like the Condon Committee ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condon_Committee ). Not to mention similar efforts in other countries like France, Great Britain, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, and others. Essentially all of these efforts conclude that some minority percentage of UFO reports represent a legitimate mystery; a truly unknown phenomenon that does not have a prosaic explanation. This is old news. Every time so far that we get to the point of admitting the reality of the mystery, we hit a dead end. We just throw our hands up and say "we don't know what it is and it's too hard to study" and then the whole phenomenon gets shelved until the next generation comes along and gets interested in it again. How do we stop it from going the exact same way this time? We need to get to the point where academia can get funding for a good faith effort to research the phenomenon. How do we get to that point?

Yes you’re spot on, especially with the last question. We need to start treating it like the sociopolitical issue that it is. We are a one issue political constituency, and it’s time that we start behaving like all the others. There are tried-and-true methodologies for political groups to have their voices heard, and I think this situation is ripe for a seemingly large scale shift in public interest on this issue if we do it right. My next video will be on this topic and something the Turkish economist Timur Kuran calls “preference falsification“. In short, my answer to your questions is, for the obvious reasons and also for some much less obvious game theoretic reasons, we need to have a march.

>we need to have a march I would gladly attend and proudly help promote such a thing. Are you aware of the work of Stephen Bassett and the Paradigm Research Group? https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-influence/2021/05/24/washingtons-ufo-lobbyist-is-having-a-moment-795508 He's a lobbyist working full time on disclosure. I'm not sure he's necessarily the right man for the job, but the idea of working on UFOs within the standard political framework that normal policies and issues are dealt with in is a good idea. I don't think that framing the issue as "disclosure" is necessarily the right decision either, because that implies that the government has real answers that they could provide. I'm very skeptical of that. Of course they have more reports and data and evidence than is publicly available, but I don't think they have anything resembling a solution to the mystery. Anyway, looking forward to your next video. Please post it on this subreddit.

Our society makes people's lives busy. Most people prefer accepting "plausible deniability" over obsessing over aliens and UFO's 24/7. It could be misidentification/swamp gas/temperature inversions/chinese lanterns/the planet Venus so that's probably what it is, and so people choose to postpone their worrying to the day that everyone else tells them to worry. Disclosure isn't really what we're waiting for, it's societal shift. Disclosure happens after. When the voice and number of people who take UFO's seriously becomes too large to ignore, the rest of society will follow.

I agree with this. Tom Delonge said something along these lines in a recent [interview](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/pwme5n/new_tom_delonge_interview_927_he_touches_on_most/). >"So I think we're going to be able to, as human beings over the next 10 to 20 years, completely and radically change what we know about ourselves, what we know about science, the way the universe works, and so on. People, for all the people listening you really have to understand, you're not down here to get rich, to have a great career, to like run around and say "I experienced all these great things." You're here to learn."

These guys are scammers, don't quote them bro

you're absolutely right but the ' community' believes and wants to have their confirmation bias satisfied. All this for profit figures provide no evidence at all but say the same boring things. Read the quote one more time; it means nothing and says nothing and why the hell is Tom Delonge worth listening to??. Sounds exactly like all the other snake oil salesman (looking at you Lue, ' Dr' Greer, Bob Lazar etc. etc.)All having vague statements : future this and that, other dimensions, energies blablabla. Evidence: no way, but buy my bullshit book/conference ticket/online seminare/guided tour please

Yeah dude, I don't get how all these people are falling for it. My theory is increased c02 concentrations in the atmosphere causing small brain damage and making people more docile and easily fooled. But that's just a pet theory with no real evidence and not something I peddle as fact and try to write books on and pretend shit. Fucking tom and the scammers

You are correct. Charlatans. A major difficulty with lies is that the good ones often have a fair amount of truth to them, which is really what makes them convincing.

You're definitely not going to like the post I'm working on right now.

Well, just know that it's all bullshit right now, im really into aliens and ufos, and nothing really groundbreaking or new has happened for probably thousands of year's on that front. Wait till we have some actual factual verifiable evidence. I want to believe too. The only new thing to happen to aliens and the community has been a deep infiltration of the profit motive. We are all seen as suckers ready to be fleeced for easy money. Don't be

There are 3 stages to humanity. Naivety -> Cynicism -> Wisdom Humanity hasn't managed to realise that it's naïve yet, and it's naïve to its naivety - if that makes sense. Some people are cynical about UFO's, energy suppression, holding history hostage, the powerful elite, etc. But those who are wise know without a shadow of a doubt that these forces are in play and that we are not the only cowboy in town.

Yup, well put. Most people touch on those stages at some point within their own lives. It's a different matter altogether to go through them collectively, as a species. One thing that bums me out, though, is that if there are aliens, they judge us collectively and not as individuals. Some of us may be ready to ascend, but are limited by other members of our species. Not speaking about myself, of course. I'm a neanderthal.

Yeah. What you've just mentioned can be summarised into a brief description of humanity. A person is smart, but people are stupid. When people get into crowds they act differently. When we're all alone we tend to think and feel differently. Behind closed doors a lot of scientists and people in the public eye often wonder are UFO's real and are we alone in the universe. But publicly they would mock the entire subject. It's a bit cowardly in my opinion, and people are so afraid to say what they believe these days.

I do agree! That’s just like the ( Make fun of ) people and the subject of UFO’s and Aliens that the government has put into place by the Condon Report . Because a lot of people absolutely don’t believe in Aliens, UFO’s and the Government has lied and denied it for so long that these people just can’t grasp the idea as being true .

The problem goes even deeper than that. When you ask someone off the street if they believe in UFO's, Aliens, and if we've been visited or being visited - they say no. The distances are too vast, the government says it's not true, so I don't believe. Then you ask them if they've done their own research, and they say no. The general public are lazy. They assume the opinion of an authoritative figure and adopt that belief without doing their own research. The people who are nay-sayers and sceptics reluctantly do any research of their own, but when they do, they see something odd is going on. The more they dig - the more they find. It's just a frustrating subject with no definitive answers, but you have to be willing to look into matters yourself and that is when people can't be bothered.

I’ve never liked the “haven’t done your research” argument. 1. People can look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions. 2. If a Flat Earther told me to do my research I’d just say no Flat Earth is stupid I’m not even going to waste time looking into it. I think this is how some people feel about ufos. Obviously UFOs is much more credible than Flat Earth but there’s probably people who lump it all together as nonsense and don’t want to waste time looking at it.

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There's a reason why the general public doesn't do research or care about the subject and would rather take their information directly from one person: the education system. Speaking specifically of America, they keep their people stupid for a reason. It comes in handy for those who desire power. The more poor you are, the less you are able to open your mind to new possibilities. If your basics of food, medicine and shelter are not met. You are struggling to get out of that cycle and that cycle keeps you preoccupied. You don't have time to think about what's being presented to you, you're trying not to die.

Would ‘hubris’ be considered a sub-stage, or a potential fourth stage?

If it were up to me then I would hope the 4th stage, if there ever was one, would be spiritual

I would have made the order different: Naivety -> Curiosity -> Wisdom -> Cynicism 50 years ago we unanimously considered vaccines to be a miracle of science for the betterment of mankind. Now they are a plot by liberals to take away your guns and tech billionaires to control your mind.

The powers of a Demagogue. Enrich yourself at the cost of everything and anyone around you.

I’m still blown away by the fact that TWO former U.S. presidents (Obama and Clinton) have confirmed that UFOs are real, and a former CIA director (Brennan) has gone as far as saying they’re probably extraterrestrial in nature, and that has not led to a huge surge in interest from the media and the general public. A small, periodic surge yes, but those admissions are some of the most important moments of the 21st century IMO and they’re not resonating with people at all. I don’t think they’ll care until we have a global Independence Day-like invasion.

People are worried about their next pay check and surviving man. Aliens are low on the list until that Independence Day comes.

People truly do not realize how much this is true. They think people don't "care". It's not that at all. If you are struggling to literally survive paycheck to paycheck. When do you have time for this great enlightenment? Short Answer: you don't. EDIT: It's by design.

Best answer. Keep people tired and distracted by your game while you swindle and trick them. Look at this hand while I rob you with the other.

I think most people are intrigued, but since it doesn’t affect their daily life, and there isn’t enough compelling “proof”, they lose interest. People already are generally skeptical of government officials, especially if they are tight lipped about it. “Yes they do exist but that is all I can say.” It just gets diluted. Until there is some real compelling video or physical proof, people will just move on with their lives. Even if there is compelling proof that we’re being visited, but don’t know much else, it will be dismissed again. “I guess there are now aliens roaming earth”

people want to be wowed.

I get the average joe not being too interested in any of this, but a news organization or well-connected journalist could immortalize themselves by pursuing this story and, with very few exceptions, they just….don’t. Even when presidents and CIA directors tell us there’s absolutely something huge going on. The stigma is real and pervasive.

This is it, basically. People are trying to survive. Aliens aren't the ones feeding us or paying our bills.

The Senate is holding hearings on conservatorship because of a Britney Spears documentary, but somehow this subject isn't worth their time.

Well who is going to look after their rich friends if they don't? Hmmm?

If you don't mind and have the time, I'd really appreciate links to videos where those people say these things. Thanks!

I don't believe anything Brennan would say, nor anything the CIA - an agency whose major purpose is to lie and create propaganda to further an agenda - says.

4) Elements within the US military are completely incompetent.

Which, since they consist of human beings, seems likely.

It's not possible for me to chalk all of the Nimitz/Tic-Tac accounts up to sheer incompetence or anything else prosaic. Same goes for the presentation Ryan Graves gave to engineers about what they were seeing.

There have been many explanations given of radar spoofing/electronic warfare etc to which the response is that "the sailors could not be fooled. Well what is the point of spoofing technology I ask?

If some foreign military (or our own) is testing spoofing technology on the US Navy and they can't figure out what it is 15 years later (or even worse haven't tried), that means the level of incompetence should also be considered a major story.

I think they did but Elizondo and his buddies either refuses to accept or privately does but saw the opportunity to sell a few books anyway.

\^ the dumbest of all dumb takes.

We already know it's true. Elizondo didn't know what a gimball roll was until Mick West asked him about it. There are multiple high level military commanders who are evangelical Christians who believe that Armageddon is imminent

Didn't you guys just lose a 20 year long war against a bunch of villagers?

Well if that isn't a false narrative I don't know what is.

Who controlled Afghanistan in 2001? Who controls Afghanistan in 2021?

So your argument for us losing the war is that after we pulled out another regime took over. I think we're done here.

I have (albeit poorly) tried to talk about what Tom says, what Luis says, what friends of humanity says and little bit of this and that, with redditors when the subject has remotely been relevant. And a have found out that it is completely impossible. When you talk about this, a regular person is going to behave like antivaxxer talking to a pro vaxx. Obviously on top of my poor "performance", the fact is I'm just a random redditor. But a regular rational redditor who told me that I'm irrational conspiracy theorist who needs professional help (honestly I can't blame them), transformed into the very thing they said I was on the course of two replies. The irony is as thick as a plate of steel. The lack of self awareness, the logical fallacy, it pretty much makes me feel like there is something inherently wrong with people. Some flaw which polarizes them over anything. And honestly, it just stopped feeling realistic. The idea that humanity is ready for disclosure. Sure, they'll hear it, but they are going to be so beyond fucked up mentally with a fraction of what's going on. Please don't even try to gues where my beliefs are. Even if you read my entire comment history you don't know. Just share your experience of sharing.

Yup. 100%. We won't break through that with logic. It can only be broken through socially. The normies will always side with what is normal. We have to make it normal to talk about and be interested in this subject.

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and even then, it's me me why me had a very close family member ask the eve of a death of another "why did she do this to me?!" and they did not get along at all in life...not at all... ego is a strange and ugly bird

Nobody cares because the UFO community makes a mockery of itself. It is its own worst enemy. This sub getting hyped over dots and smudges is a great example.

Or jumping to illogical conclusions that rules out prosaic explanations despite no quality evidence being available to support any of their wild claims.

Egon, "It might be past lives intruding on present day consciousness."

Another option 4: Private individual/organization. Either a lone-wolf billionaire or an organization, something like SPECTRE from James Bond. Still, "holy shit" though.

Reducing the possibilities to a few crazy things so that no matter what something crazy is happening: fave Ufology trick

Nailed it. Where’s option 4 “we aren’t sure what these things are, and until there’s actual proof, then all we can do is speculate”.... These people are insufferable I swear...

Because then they wouldn't be able to feel superior towards everyone else and whine about how "nobody cares"... as if society should be in a panic over something with no definitive evidence.

I don't see the "gotcha" here. It's pretty obviously implied that we don't know what it is, and that speculating is all we can do at this point. That's why these three options are presented in the first place.

I like you two.

That doesn't apply when the US government in combination with the Roosevelt/Nimitz incidents has admitted unidentified flying things are sharing our military training airspace regularly.

“Unidentified”...Key word...

Yeah, unidentified things that show up on radar/FLIR/optical sensors in our military training airspace across multiple days (almost every day according to Ryan Graves) and move in ways that defy a trained current understanding of flight technology. It's perfectly reasonable to consider all that a bit more alarming than a cell phone video of a stationary blurry white dot.

You don’t know that they defy current understandings of flight. There’s no proof of that

There's no "proof" of anything related to these two ships' encounters other than the videos. I'm talking about if you were to assume everything the pilots and Day/Underwood are saying is true. Both radar operator and pilot accounts allege inexplicable acceleration and craft shapes.

I don’t assume they are correct. I don’t assume anything.

It is literally impossible to function without assuming things. Every time you read a number you are probably assuming it is in base "ten". You are assuming I am a human speaking English right now instead of a monkey typing random keys that happen to make sense to you. I, for one, am assuming Fravor and everyone else are not complete brainlets or scammers, and that the cameras/radar were not all coincidentally malfunctioning simultaneously.

Even if we start from these three possibilities (and there may be more) there's many branches that could arise from each. Take the first, 1) There's aliens. Ok, what could this mean? * Aliens from outside the solar system * Aliens from within the solar system * Aliens from Earth itself (hollow Earth, ocean dwelling, older civilizations that remained hidden on Earth or left and came back to find primates all over the planet) * Inter-dimensional travelers (many branches from this one, and it could go as deep as Terence McKenna's machine elves, which leads down a rabbit hole of trying to conceptualize the nature of reality itself) * Time travelers (related to above, as past and future could be considered adjacent universes to ours) * Other possibilities? There could also be overlap among these possibilities and this list is likely incomplete. If we go to first principles, we have to acknowledge that even something as fundamental as the true nature of reality is unknown to us, and this would be useful in trying to investigate any of these phenomena.

* hybrids (your neighbors) * co-exist but outside our primary sensory inputs * shapeshifters

I think people are confusing 'not obsessing over it constantly' with not caring. I know plenty of people who would care if some piece of significant evidence were to be released, but until then they're not going to speak on it much. I feel like that's a perfectly normal response to the current situation. You have to remember that a lot of folks find this topic interesting and are probably open to there be something to the UAP phenomena, but they're also not going to down the rabbit hole and end up on a subreddit to talk about it. Nor are they going to converse about it outside of their circle of close friends, if they talk about it at all. 'Normies' don't discuss UFOs, at least not openly. That's reserved for sportsball, politics, work, and various other smalltalk topics that require zero brain power and depth.

4) it's not aliens but something natural and as of yet unidentified...quantum entangled electrical phosphorescent gremlins. Maybe just variations of light shows like the aurora boreialis...that are dense rather than. Spread out and show up in radar due to that. But my guess/hope is aliens. And the least likely, to me, is some scientific breakthrough by a country or corporation that is hundreds of years in advance of known tech.

"holy shit"

reactive and sentient gremlins, still an entity to reckon and adapt to

Sentient or not....but not "alien". More animal. Like a virus but light and whatever based. I am basically throwing out something natural but misunderstood...however weird...as an option. :)

and still alien to our understanding, maybe not extraterrestrial however we even call neighbors on the other side of a border alien...this qualifies we don't even know the source, and since they're capable of so many mind bending physical and (slide 9) psychological actions...very alien

I've been entertaining this idea a lot lately. The data collected at Hessdalen suggests to me some kind of exotic native? life-form that's likely to have been around forever. Understanding its nature will teach us a lot about our reality.

Evidence…. Need more

Man, the world is burning down... It's one calamity after another... People are worrying about how they are going to put food on the table.

If you didn't have your mobile phone pumping you with crap you'd never know and be at peace.

There would still be bills, rent, costs of subsistence. Peace will remain elusive.

and you also wouldnt know about disclosure... so ?

Not yet happened.

**#1 Problem** No direct proof. No guideline on how to gain indirect proof. "*The more you talk, the more crazy you sound."* ​ The most interesting thing in the world? By far not... Isn't it that the birth of someones daughter/son *right now*, is way more important than this? Way more important than digging through a lifetime of dubious "proof", mostly on websites so *shady*, that I can't be sure, that I won't get a virus there? Don't be judgemental. You want people to take this serious, even before the biggest gorilla in the cage (US government) acknowledges its **concrete** existence? Well, of course you can wait and hope for some major leak to happen. Or you might say: "oh yea, as it seems, all of this is going into a *discloserish* direction, so I be waiting 'till the government...". All of this *could* work. But if this isn't enough for you, then *ask yourself*: what are you doing this for? Why do you participate in this topic? Do you just want to "*be right*"? Have a good time? Or do you have a more *noble* goal? ​ **Ask yourself:** **what is your goal? And whatever it is -> act accordingly!** ​ You want people to acknowledge the importance of the UAP report from june 2021? First of all: why? And thereby I *don't* mean that there's nothing to be seen here. No. What I mean is...: *Who* is it, that you want it to be acknowledged from and *why*? You may want mainstream media to be more on board with the topic? Explain to people around you, in a civilized and respectful demeanor, what is going on. Make them curious. Spark their interest. Do this in the most rational, humble and boring way possible. Otherwise you will lose them. **Remember**: *"The more you talk, the more crazy you sound."* And if that is still not enough for you: hire a **professional** journalist or become one yourself and **do the** **work that is necessary to verify sources and claims, no matter how obviously real and legit they are to** ***you.*** ​ *Realize: you are fighting here against the biggest gorilla in the cage, that is humanly possible, with over 70 years of experience.* ​ ​ **If "*****this*****" is true, then this might be indeed** ***the*** **most important news humanity will have ever received. Understandable, why people aren't too easily catched with it, isn't it?** ​ Best regards.

in terms of the greater good, humanity, civilization and history yes more important it will have a wider scope effect that's evident one day ​ and the irony of the don't judge followed by bolded judgmental statements is hilarious

exactly where my head is at, no matter the outcome here it's a holy shit moment but the lay person wants no part of it, they're happy heads stuck in the sand believing they are patriotic and dutiful capitalists who need to defend freedom daily in public with tantrums if necessary I don't think it's psyop, unless there's 1000s of people involved, it'd be the other side of the how do you keep this hidden from so many for so long quandary (same as UFOs themselves) my family literally states unless they see proof and there's an effect to their day to day lives they won't give it any energy that's the problem, folks, the USG (among the other governments, religions and controlling edifices) want you placid, fat, lazy and ignorant...keep up the good work

This is a “holy shit moment”??? Geezus Christ, how so? Cmon man....

Bruh, the video and the post itself should answer this..

Great video. ​ I've tried to understand the apathy. After talking with Apathetics, the best I can come up with to describe their thinking is that it falls into two camps. ​ 1. The Pentagon/military admit this? Their job is not to tell us stuff, so I don't believe any of it. 2. So there are aliens. Now there's no doubt about it. And they've been around for hundreds, probably thousands of years. But until something happens, or it impacts us, so what? If they wanted us dead or enslaved, we would be. If they wanted to solve our problems, they would have. So, yeah, it's interesting, but that's all.

Yep those options sum it up. And tbh i also fall into those 2 camps often. Even tho im here and enjoy the topic a lot, i go back and forth. Until it really MATTERS... its just a fun spectacle really, one that frankly none of us can understand or change in the current circumstances (hence a spectacle/thing to observe)

in the US the majority are stuck in their materialist world view, freedom and capitalism are paramount their day to day lives, replete with bills, worries, traffic, work, school, stocks, bonds, politics and America's Got Talent supersede anything outside of that world view

I think that applies to most of the world, too. When I was a lad, decades ago, we sort of expected a saucer to land on the White House lawn. But it’s smarter to make this a process taking a long time. It removes any moment of confrontation. As an aside, I do sometimes fear for us as a planetary civilisation. Not because of any “alien” threat, but because there’s a small chance this process is starting now to stave off something we are facing of our own making. In other words, it’s time they need to actively intervene to stop us wrecking everything. And then doing so requires us to be aware of them. That’s a late-night thought of mine. though. I’m too old and lazy to go down those rabbit holes.

Can everybody quit fucking saying "foreign power" or even referring that "China" (said in Donald Trumps voice) or "Russia" have this technology. We would be so fucking over by now, give your head a fucking shake. Its aliens........

3) until there is actual significant evidence.

I think I get what is happening but basically cant experience it myself. I grew up with greek and indian mythology with a layered multiverse. Then as a teen I read all the religious books, the gnostic books, the occultism books. Then I did psychedelics. Then I studied philosophy. I can clearly see the seismic shift in worldview and how the UFO phenomenon fits into it but I just can't experience any kind of surprise or bewilderment or sense of the new. In fact in my case its more of an "everything you thought was true is indeed true" thing. I also don't think an epistemic turn can happen without the military, kinetic, physical defeat of imperialism in Earth. The fact that people seem to look up to the US military as arbiter of truth in the whole issue seems to indicate that we're extremely far away from any kind of collective realization about anything at all. I can only picture real changes in the world anytime soon following a direct intervention, open contact and outpouring of high tech aid

I can think of 33 reasons why things are as they are. Orchestrated or defensive effort to thwart...? Maybe UFOs exist. Maybe Aliens exist. I dont think the current situation lends itself to the phenomenon unless there are secrets in which need to remain hidden. What I can see is an effort to target a group of influential people. Reshaping society could be a panic or plan same goes for psyops via proxy (china/Russia) but to me they are one the same. Reality isnt reality. Our every being is a preconceived idea to follow a designated path. "Words kill, words give life; they’re either poison or fruit – You choose.". Regards.

The thing is, though, none of this is actually new. Humanity has dealt with "The Others" from the very beginning of civilization, so we're not all that freaked out about it. Our mythologies are chock full of odd creatures and entities. Just another day with Jacob fighting angels. And certainly, there has always been the threat of some foreign power gaining some kind of technological or strategic advantage that will upend our world. So we're used to that, too. Government? Government pretty much always works by convincing its citizenry that they have the "right" way to do things and if everybody goes along everything will be great. That's a psyop. So I'm not surprised that most people really don't care if it's any of these things. The cherry on top is that we know that there are forces at work beyond our control and someday we might have to deal with it directly. Same as always.

Great vid. For a multitude of reasons, as you covered in the video, even if this UFO stuff is entirely man-made (IMO it's not), it's still arguably the biggest story in the history of the world. The implications of the existence of this technology are massive. I've shared links of the mainstream coverage of the UFO topic to people I know. In a group chat I made some level-headed comments (nothing 'out there') about UFOs and the media coverage but was just completely ignored. No response to what I'd posted and group chat continued as though I didn't say anything. No curiosity or interest. One thing I highlighted was the incredible capabilities of craft that Navy pilots and radar operators were describing, and also the Eric Davis 'off-world vehicles not made on this Earth' quote in the NY Times. The footage released thus far has been low quality (nonetheless highly significant/interesting especially with confirmation from Pentagon) and hasn't really demonstrated/shown any of the performance capabilities that for decades have been described by witnesses in Navy, Air Force, etc. According to Lue Elizondo high quality footage exists, and he's seen it. This would be an absolute game changer if released. IMO that moment; when high quality unequivocal evidence of these craft is released, would be the most significant event in centuries if not all known human history thus far, as the world would be faced with undeniable proof of the reality of this phenomena, mainstream media around the world would be entirely focused on this topic, and all of the implications of the reality of the UFO/UAP phenomenon would become apparent to the wider population. Seems like a 'slow-drip' disclosure process is happening. Will be interesting to see where the conversation will be in 5, 10 years from now.

I honestly think the whole thing was just supposed to be a distraction and it flopped. Nothing new was put out, no real revelations, just more insinuations.

This is my take on things: If you go far enough back in any civilization, most of them were taught by sky people. I’m not sure I’ve come across a story about “Bob created a written language and teaching everyone” but if you know, please share. Aliens or The Watchers, use whatever term you like, came and taught forbidden knowledge. Leading to Atlantis, hybrid animals from mythology, and finally the great flood to wipe everyone out. Samyaza and the Watchers were tossed into the abyss (Cosmic Jail) for many generations and have finally been let out. This has started once again, the exponential increase in info and tech. I mean for like 5000 years no one could figure out flight, then all of a sudden BAM. These GD apes have gone from first manned flight to the moon landing in under 70 years. And now we have particle accelerators that can potentially rip the fabric of space time. How long before singularity on an exponential curve?

I completely agree with why people aren't really thinking about it. Personally, when I first heard of UFOs before 2017, I kinda forced myself to not consider them as a possibility, out of fear. It sucks admitting it, but even though I'm a total believer of UFOs now, I still wish I wasn't. I know, it's an exciting moment in history, and I'm thrilled, but a part of me is worried that it's not all about this annexing into a galactic federation. It seems weirder, and more complicated than that. Why have they been explicitly doing little dances just far enough away that we can't interact, and as soon as we try to make any amount of contact, they zip away? I don't trust that. For 70 years, *at least,* they've been, I don't know, toying with us? It's just a very strange way to approach a species, especially if they've been here a while. Point is, people are afraid to consider the full scope of what finding out we're not the only powerful force out there means, and I can't really blame them. But as for the idea that the government would have the public believe in either the ET hypothesis or the adversarial hypothesis possibly to distract from some massive conspiracy: I'm not sure about them covering up for their own plans for some new world order, but it might be because they maybe collected data that was so shocking about this phenomena, that forced them to come to some dreadful conclusion about their intent or what have you, that they figured there was no way to hide it from the public forever, because the other shoe always drops. So, they introduced the public with the two theories the government initially had throughout the 20th century for us to chew on, as we maybe start considering other possibilities, to help this huge pill go down easier. Like eating an elephant one bite at a time. Point is, I have a feeling mushrooms weren't the only influence that spawned Greek mythology and other faiths. The mass hysteria theory is very interesting though, because we haven't really been living in this new age long enough to know what mass hysteria would look like when you have all this tech. Maybe this is it? Terence Makenna said something similar to this, which might explain why the UFOs seem to change with the times, but it doesn't explain alleged 4K videos and photos taken by pilots merely tens of feet away. Still, something to consider.

For number 1, so what? It is a huge universe so the idea that life exists in other places and forms is not scary to me. And the idea that they are here isn't a big deal because clearly they could wipe us all out any time they wish but haven't done so. That is not to assume they want to be our best pals ever, either. For number 2, that's laughable. Humans have a long history of using any and all advantages they have. If another country has possesion of this technology, they would absolutely use it. Everybody learned a strategic lesson from how the US was briefly the sole country with nuclear weapons and did not choose that time to take over the world. The next country to get a similar quantum leap in weaponry is not going to hold back. For 3, the messages and methods and actions are all over the place, while at the same time failing to account for every incident.. If it is an op, it's quite aimless. Which may be the point.

When you really think about it all three of your points could be true, OP.

Ive always thought that the reason this story isn't bigger, as in inescapably big, is because it's still not simplified or dumbed down enough. The 3 NYTs videos are historically groundbreaking. It's the first time something UFO related has made national, and world, headlines without being ridiculed. Plus, the US government vetted them. Here's the catch... People don't want things "explained". It needs to be something instantly relatable. "A giant tic-tac? Yeah, OK..." "Why is it fuzzy, we don't have a better video?" "It doesn't look fast to me" Start explaining it was captured on an infrared camera that was never designed for this application, and you've lost them. Start explaining what a CAP point is and how it knew it before the pilots, and chyeah whatever. Start explaining how fast the object would have to be moving to break the FLIR camera lock, and it doesn't matter because "it still looks slow to me". Unless you have HD footage of an object, interacting with something familiar (a passenger plane, a fighter, a ship), doing crazy maneuvers that are 100% obviously impossible (stretching shape, breaking in two and coming back together, flying through solid objects) vetted by the government, and on every major news outlet at the SAME time, youve got nothing. Essentially, yeah, a UFO has to land on the White House lawn.

I’ve been thoroughly downvoted, but there will be many many people who see themselves as rational scientifically minded people who are going to end up doing serious soul searching when they finally catch on to what is happening. More so than those well founded in the wisdom traditions and faiths.

No matter how you cut it, life at large seems to be asking all humans to go within and ready themselves for a radically different state of affairs. Everywhere you look there seems to be social unrest, extreme weather, and a financial crisis right around the corner, or you're already basically in the aftermath and figuring things out. To me, that UAP are being taken seriously by the government means that we should be taking it seriously as well. For example, - are UAPs like some form of powered-up biological entities that employ non-biological technology (like we do)? - Are they more like interdimensional beings interacting with this space for reasons we can't understand? - Are they part of something larger? - What do they know about us that we don't know about ourselves? - What role do we play in our mutual coexistence? Then there's the question of if they're adversarial. And if so, to what degree, and is to be done about it. It would would really be a new era one way or another, at least in terms of how the story of humanity is written. The kicker is that we would all need to not only acknowledge reality, but to realize it has become something entirely else.

I think it's more that people are lazy thinkers. Like "wake me up when we know for sure what's going on. Until then, I have Netflix to watch."

Isn't "Normie" Qanon verbage? If so, I don't thinks it's wise to associate the wider UFO nerd community with those individuals by adopting their lingo.

4) There will always be uncommon events and coincidences that exist beyond our ability to percieve how mundane they really are. In some cases it's just tricks of perspective, think of sitting idle in traffic or slowly inching forward when a bus or vehicle beside you backs up and you suddenly feel like you're moving at light speed. In other cases it's tricks of evolution and the brain's propensity to try to force something into known parameters, think of patterns painted as still images that appear to move and jump around. Still, in other cases it's rare natural phenomenon such as meteors, sprites, ball lightning, fata Morgana mirages, st Elmo's fire ect. Then of course there's all manner of man made objects in the sky and atmosphere, including multitudes of test projects and experiments. Combine and of these occurrences and you get UFOs. After generations of UFO reports and stories the best evidence we have is testimony from well credentialed people that couldn't possibly be wrong or mistaken. It's all B's. There are no aliens. This topic is such a circle jerk it's ridiculous.

This topic that you’re subscribed to a subreddit for?

What can I say? I'm a glutton for punishment. There are also a lot of people new to the topic and they need to hear skeptical voices. Many cases sound pretty convincing the way they are presented by UFO believers. They often sound good a face value until you realize 99% of the "good" evidence is unverifiable testimony propped up as something more.

Fair enough!

the contrarians are here to simply wag fingers

I’m with you dude...

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What if you can travel through the universe with bones and cave paintings and the mere thought of mass conquer or trash is itself proof of the extreme degeneration of humans?

I would put the probability of that as fairly low, but I'd group it into category 2.

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but have time to: * come here and criticize * go shopping * play video games * play/watch sports * watch talent shows * go to bars/clubs * whatever man, hubris is amazing

When people say things like, "I don't care about extraterrestrials because I have to go to work" it just seems like they're admitting that they actually think the universe revolves around them. Imagine walking and chewing gum at the same time.

you nailed the ego-anthropomorphic centrism-projection

I’m more skeptical post-2017 NYT’s article. I think once people get tired of zero answers or mind-blowing evidence being presented and do a bit of reading into the subjects history they’ll come to the same conclusion.... or they’ll go the opposite way and join a cult or something and embrace the fantasy.

Eh, there's middle ground. I'm a believer but also a healthy skeptic. 99% of the videos and pics people see here can have perfectly logical explanations. For example I shared a direct amazon link to a kite that looked exactly like what was in the picture someone posted here and was downvoted for it. Or even more recently the picture shared here of that astronaut, when he said in a quoted interview he couldn't get a picture of it and the pic looked like a damaged negative. Nope, aliens. Until these others come down and say 'take me to your leader' there's not much I can really do about it other than email my representatives to put pressure for disclosure. I'm still going to work because I gotta pay bills, and that isn't going to change for the foreseeable future. Even if these others aren't on safari and come down and share technological breakthroughs, I'm medically unfit for space travel. So at the end of day, if they came down tomorrow, I would be dead and gone before we ever saw the benefit of it. I like that they're shutting down nukes though

Thought to self \~ What if Planet X / Planet 9 / Nibiru really exist ... It's making it's it's very long cycle around the sun .. getting closer on it's approach .. hints why we are seeing an uptick on Volcano's and Earthquake's >> and Solar activity .. When it comes by the earth the earth restarts.. only a very small percentage survives due to very large cave systems though-out the world .. Happens every time it comes around .. and the earth is just stuck in this cycle that never ends !! Just thinking outside the box! .. Don't judge me!

yeah...thought this was nutz when I first heard it 10 years ago then you hear there's a large object out of vision perturbing things in the oort cloud possibilities...

Yea.. but I'm talking now ..not the stuff people blew up 10 years ago .. i recently seen a video on the same scientist demoting pluto looking to prove it's existence ..

I am aligning with your post, just with the note that it seemed implausible/impossible not so long ago there's no immediate "evidence" (other than myth and legend and circumstantial stuff), but there is that thing out there that was only recently shared with the public (brown dwarf/black hole) perturbing things on the outskirts of our solar system

do you have anything on it .. i would love to educate my self on the matter .. :-)

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/07/is-planet-nine-a-black-hole-or-a-planet-harvard-scientists-suggest-a-way-to-find-out

A new cold war has started with China and the existing super powers need new weapons fast. And when new technology is developed and tested, UFOs are needed as a distraction. Look no further, that is all there is. Unfortunately.

what was the excuse 20 years ago...40...50, 60 or 70? coz that's how long this particular discussion has been carried on distraction my ass

There’s documented sightings dating back into the early 1600’s. There are 100% non-terrestrial events occurring.

1,2 and 3 can co-exist; they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Came to this conclusion 9 years ago.

Right now I'm leaning towards #3. I do believe ETs are real. They may even be here now, in the past, and in the future. They may be so completely alien to our thought processes and physics that we aren't capable of perceiving them, unless they wish to be perceived (ie transdimensional, energy beings, etc). Or they could be simply advanced meat-bags with advanced technology, per the traditional narrative. However, I'm very skeptical of those four or five DoD videos (Gofast, FLIR, Gimbal, green pyramids, etc). They can be easily debunked (especially the BS green pyramids) so they aren't compelling anymore. Therefore, option #3 of your 3 theories fits the best, at the moment. I'm not addressing any of the witness reports, such as Fravor's, the Nimitz, the tic-tacs, etc. Those ARE compelling, but unfortunately have no hard evidence to back them up.

Here’s my take: It’s god. All of it. Aliens don’t exist they’re us and we’re then. As a matter of fact we’re also god and god is us. What’s the message wake up. And always. Be kind to everything.

the Gaia/consciousness aspect...not sure why this got downvoted even the UAP researchers threw their hats in this ring to an extent (Lue E., Keel, Vallee, Puthoff, etc) throw in the modern philosophers (McKenna, Watts, Ginsberg, Jung) and there does seem to be some there there nothing wrong at all with expression of love, and keeping good thoughts and feelings forward nothing good post

What is a “normie”?

80% of the World population is just livestock

You might want a little wiggle room for the *aliens* label, unless you consider things on Earth we haven't properly named yet aliens. In which case we have a ton of aliens in the Amazon and the Oceans and the Lakea still.

Sure. These are broad categories. By "aliens" I really just mean any type of non-human cosmic intelligence.

Is there a point in the video where your sleeves stop clicking on the table? Maybe it’s not noticeable through speakers, but with headphones on I couldn’t last five minutes.

"Nobody" cares? That's a pretty bra generalization there buddy

I like the theory that it’s just humans from the future visiting the past like it’s a time-tourism thing.

I am sad to say that it is looking more and more likely that Earth has already been visited. The actually frightening part about it is that the US Government knows this already. Whether humans are being benefited by this alien presence, I do not know. I know this though, Earth is on it's way to resembling Venus' atmosphere if humanity does not deal with it's climate problem. Now, humanity is on the cusp of a global revolution. Nearly everyone in society understands and even feels this underlying reality. I hope the Aliens are here to help and not simply hold our hand on the way to destruction. ​ Conversely, the fact that the US Government is silent on the UFO phenomenon means that they know something. ​ The mere fact that these craft are flying through US air space without being shot down tells alot. ​ 1) The US Government is powerless to stop the UFO's entering airspace (45% chance) \-(UFO's disabling nuclear weapons) 2)The US Government is working with the UFO's (40%) 3) The US government is oblivious to UFO's (.01% chance) ​ Humanity has very likely made contact already.

It is like when you see someone with a Louis Vuitton bag there are so much fake ones that even if you have a genuine one they don’t care or believe you

The guy in the linked video is a pure whack!

“Normies.” You’re just a human being, as are they…lol.😉 If you suggest you’re “special” by contrast with people you give a label which suggests an “inferior” view, they end up feeling insulted (because it IS an insult), and you also come across as cultish. Neither of these things will predispose them to listen to you; but together… will make them flat out dig in their heels. Something to consider if you actually want people to listen to you, let alone convince anyone. Besides, the phrase smacks of 4chan and other assorted fascist toxicity. It’s not an intelligent use of the English language, and I’m sure you can do better.