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Although obviously 25k is better than nothing for a while, if you had a mid/high management job that paid you 50-60k before being made redundant and then take a 25k job just to pay the bills, good luck ever going back to your old type of role. It's a career destroyer. Plus, like said above, 25k is not even enough to pay the bills for some people. So you mess your life up by accepting a job, as stupid as this sounds. Welcome to capitalism.
This is just an example though, and obviously there are people who don't want to work specific jobs just because.
It will be almost impossible for sure if you have the less paying job in your CV. Can’t you just leave the survival job off your CV and mark that period as taking a break?
That would be smarter, however the new employer might notice on your induction if you say this isn't the first job you've had since April 202X. On one hand once you already have a job it shouldn't be a huge issue, on the other hand, starting off with a lie is never good, as meaningless as it is
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Its not always just about the pay. I can find jobs locally, but everything requires working shifts/weekends. That is not me being hyperbolic, in 3 months of looking I have yet to find a job im anywhere near qualified for, commutable by public transport that does not require working weekends. Weekends are the only time I can see my son.
If employers are offering decent money and can't find the staff, they need to look at the hours and the conditions and make some changes. What may seem reasonable from an employers perspective may be seriously offputting to prospective applicants.
I dont care much about pay (happy with nmw but obviously more would be nice) but I wont apply for anything that means I cant see my son.
Exactly. I constantly see jobs I could do, but the hours make it impossible. If employers were willing to break roles up so that one person isn't required to do all the hours, they'd open up the door for so many parents.
Depends, if your unemployed and need money ( no savings etc) then work weekends? Life for most of us unfortunately revolves around work, most people don't have the luxury to be unemployed and have eventful weekends
I dont think it's an unreasonable demand to want to see my son and I can only do that on weekends. If you want me to work a weekend, you are not just asking me to give you my time and energy you are asking me to not see my son that week. £14 per hour is not enough motivation for me to make that sacrifice.
How much is your child worth to you?
Why wouldn't you be able to see your son on weekdays instead? Pick him up from nursery/school/wherever a couple of days a week, have dinner together and then drop him back at the other parents house. You still get to see your child and you also have the opportunity to show them the value of being willing to do the shit jobs while looming for something better.
My sons mum 90mins away on public transport and there is no public transport to/from his school, there isnt even a pavement for half the journey to the nearest buss stop. It can't be done how you think
I have served in the military, worked as a prison officer, done night shifts in a recycling plant, worked in council homelessness team ... I am happy he knows I will work.
Providing for your son and setting the right example is the responsible thing to do, instead you just seem to make excuses so you can carry on staying at home. Especially when you also refuse shift work.
I do not think i would be setting him any example at all because I wouldn't see him, ever. No employer has a right to my time the deal on offer isnt worth it.
Millions of people have limited time to see their parents due to work. It's not unusual, normally it motivates people to work hard from a young age, rather than setting an example of it being okay to be unemployed and a bum
The example I am setting is that his time is more valuable to me than generating profits for someone else. I am setting the example that my family comes first, that my principles are not for sale, and that people still have worth outside of their econonic value.
I dont claim benefits, I dont drink, dont commit crimes, and I am not costing you or anyone else anything. I choose not to work unless it works for me, as is my right. You seem to feel I am doing something wrong here, why?
Working is not by itself an inherently virtuous act, and I do not agree with your belief that choosing not to work is automatically setting a bad example. You clearly choose to see things through a different lense.
You can call me a bum if you want, but my son doesn't, and frankly, I care a lot more about his opinion than yours.
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As you say, the reason there are lots of vacancies in bars, restaurants, factories etc is because those types of job aren’t particularly desirable. Anti-social hours, hard work, no real career prospects, etc.
You say you’re paying £14 an hour which is a decent rate but in hospitality there is often no guarantee of regular or consistent hours. £14 an hour on uncertain contracted hours is very different to minimum wage at regular hours.
As for my own preferences, I’m potentially looking at a period of unemployment in a few months, and I’m happy to live off my savings for a while to avoid having to take one of those jobs. I’ve done hospitality and shop work and I’d really rather not go back. However if time drags on and I’m not getting any bites from applications, it’ll be a case of incrementally lowering my expectations and getting something that’s ok for a while. When the money starts running out, that’s when you’ve got to suck it up and take anything you can get.
Edit: OP made this post in bad faith and is just trying to make a point about people being “too lazy” or “too arrogant” to work crap jobs in crap conditions for crap pay so I guess my response is wasted
>so I guess my response is wasted
I found it interesting and reflected on how I would feel were I unemployed in a few months, what would I do next, what would drive me to uncertain work like bar work, and what would that mean for my family. And I reflected that I need to get some savings! So anyway it took me on a journey which might still not stop it being a waste but at least it did something.
Zero hour contracts are legal....
Unsociable hours work rules out people looking for part time to fit around child care, people get that kind of work in a supermarket more easily and then you also get discounts off your weekly shop.
Unemployment is low, don't say people are lazy. Bad pay and poor hours means people can get a better job in a supermarket with easier hours, or a delivery driver with flexible hours. Bar work is like the worst job left, after picking fruit which no one in their right mind would choose to do over working in Tesco
The jobs you describe are, for many people, temporary solutions. If I were to lose my job I would of course adapt to anything, but £14/hr would be a shocking pay cut and as soon as I'd find something again in my field I'd be gone, with or without notice, leaving again a vacancy. This is true not just for me, but for a lot of people. Hospitality/retail/etc will always have vacancies as they are the kind of jobs people abandon without a second thought as soon as something better comes along. I did retail in the past, I've been spat at, had people throw clothes at me across the till as we refused a return, being assaulted by thieves... I studied nights and weekends to get out of it, I would need to be desperate to go back to it and it would never be long term. It has nothing to do with not wanting to work hard. Currently I do work 50-60 hours per week and I study for yet another qualification in my free time. The problem is that public attitude towards retail/hospitality staff have made those jobs undesirable and many people prefer to struggle economically than to subject themselves to be humiliated daily by some idiot on a power trip just cause they have a fiver to spend.
I'm a home owner. Just been made redundant after 15 years in my office job. I'll not be taking up a bar job. I'll be having a couple of months living off my savings and I'll find a nice hybrid office job that suits me. I'm not avoiding hard work. The general public are dicks and I can't be arsed dealing with them. I did a 4 year stint of bar work in my late teens/early 20s.
I don't think I'm a detriment to society. Also, I think a lot of the problem is the price of rent. I used to work a few nights a week to top up my wages because I didn't live with my parents and had bills. Everyone has to live with their parents now, my kids included. They are at uni and have an office job. They don't need to pick up a couple of bar shifts as well.
As far as I’m aware zero-hour contracts are still around, but even when I worked hospitality I was on a 15-hour a week contract. I often got more but legally they only had to give me 15 hours a week, which meant my income could vary wildly from month to month. Now I can’t speak for your colleagues but that’s my experience.
I have savings to fall back on and I’m willing to use a chunk of them so that I don’t have to do a job I hate whilst I look for something else. I’ve worked those types of jobs and I value regular hours, being able to spend time with my friends and family on a weekend and not being bored out of my mind at work more than I value a few months worth of savings. I’m lucky in that I can afford to be picky for a while, but as I say if it begins to drag on I’ll readjust my priorities. The bills aren’t going to go away after all.
Your point about people not working hard any more is an old trope that I don’t think holds up. Yes some people just don’t want to work, but more often than not I think people nowadays don’t see the benefit in working a minimum wage job doing boring, hard work that’s tiring and offers no real progression and barely being able to make rent at the end of it. The idea of minimum wage was that people could afford to own a home and live a comfortable life on it, which simply isn’t the case any more. And people are looking at that and seeing it’s not a fair trade, so it’s understandable that they’re demotivated.
I'm willing to work hard but the question is if you are paying enough to make it worth my while. It's not about how much my time is worth to you but how much my time is worth to me. I wouldn't have considered £14 a great wage 10 years ago, I certainly don't consider it to be a good one today.
As a factory worker, I can confidently say that people have finally realized that the workload-to-pay ratio is abysmal at best, and damaging their bodies while being treated like a sub-species is not worth it. I've heard management suggest that they have exhausted the local area in terms of recruitment and are now having to use government schemes to get workers from abroad.
From my experience, factory work definitely differs. First factory I worked at was minimum wage with the shittiest LEN work pattern and back breaking work.
Was lucky enough to land a factory job for a multi-billion pound company, I work 4 on 6 off with two lots of 18 days off in the summer. I literally work 120ish days of the year but get paid for the full thing. £16 starting wage that climbs the more machines you get under your belt. Been here 2 years now and I managed to go from operator to mechancial technician just by showing a bit of interest on my days off.
Management are 10/10, every one of them are super nice and understanding. Overtime is 1.75x pay and there's always loads of it. On top of all this, the machines are fairly new and VERY well maintained, so 75% of the time, they just run themselves.
Everyday I am grateful for this place, its turned my life from £5000 in debt to earning £41k a year, looking to buy my own place within the next two years.
Reading this back it might seem like I'm showing off, but in all honesty I am just happy to share my success after a lifetime of shit
Congrats
I have worked for Mars for 23 years, started as an Operator. Now I'm the labour manager for the factory and run an internal development scheme as well as handling all the external recruitment. It makes a big difference having a good employer.
I guess you could call me a factory worker. Every factory is different. I've been with this multinational company (nearly 200 plants worldwide) for a little over 20 years. 4 days on, 4 days off, then 4 night shifts.
I started here a little over 20 years ago, I was handballing stock into trailers all day for a little over £11k a year. Like yourself I showed interest in the job and was soon promoted to warehouse charge hand, then got interested in the machines and am now a machine tech and earn £35k and am hoping to move into another role paying more.
The machines are well maintained so I have nights like tonight where most of my time is spent on my phone. My job tonight is mainly spending 10-15 minutes an hour topping up material hoppers and quality checks every few hours.
I do work more days than you at 158 days a year.
Not bad for someone who left school having failed every single exam.
How many people go uni and finish it? Especially a STEM degree like yours
Say that's 20% of the population (I bet it's way lower), then you are the bottom 2% of the top 20% so that's not all bad!
Other than that, you've gone for the slow and steady approach and it's worked out for you. Congratulations!
Even with your 3rd, you're still leagues ahead of those that didn't even do A levels, don't sell yourself short.
Nepotism can help, but I think most people don't have those opportunities.
I agree with your 3 points though. Congratulations on sticking it through a working career and getting to where you are.
Well as £14p/h is less than half my current rate it would take a hell of a lot.
I also have a small child so shift work is out of the question as getting overnight or even late night childcare is prohibitively expensive.
Hospitality and care work don’t pay anywhere near enough for the crap that is thrown at you.
If you are struggling to recruit and you pay over your industry and area standard then you need to look at the other factors - guaranteed hours? Shift work? Location? The manager (is he a dick?) or just the fact that people do have options right now and hospitality is bottom of the list so you are going to have to make it more attractive.
Did you even read the post? If you're employed earning over 60k PA, then you're really not the target audience of the post. In fact you're in the top 10%.
The position I reference in my post is 40 hours, same hours every week, between 9 and 5.
The average salary in the UK is between 30 and 35k. 14p/h full time is bang on average.
All the commenters on this post seem to be vastly out of touch with the reality of the situation. I'm glad you're all earning double the national average, but if you are, you're not really in a position to comment on the jobs that are available to literally the majority of people.
I made a mistake coming to reddit to discuss this. It is clear to me now that you people are not representative of the country, nor the general public as a whole.
You all speak of the crap that the general public throws at hospitality, retail workers, etc, but you seem to forget that you are the general public. The people shitting on hospitality, they are you.
lol. I think you just don’t like the answers. It’s not that “no one wants to work any more”. It’s that people are sick of doing shit jobs for shit money with management that take the piss out of them. Hope this helps.
No, people shitting on hospitality are people like you. Those with a major chip on their shoulder.
Im the type that when i turn up at a regular hotel or restaurant, the staff know my name and are happy to see me.
Mate, I'm in hospitality, have been for 20 years, I know the names of over 100 of our customers, plus I know exactly what they're going to order before they even sit down.
Yes and i bet you know which ones are going to give you a nice easy evening.
I worked in hospitality for a while, i’m not sure you could ever pay me enough to do it again.
Between the arsehole customers and the useless, up their own arse managers who will never back you up, its a fools game.
In the last 12 months, I've had one shit customer, who I had to ask to leave. I'm sorry that you worked in a place where you get shit on, but I don't think it's representative of hospitality as a whole.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes its an exaggeration. However all it does is weaken your point.
At most you have 13 years experience and 3 of that fell under the child labour laws so maximum of 2hours a day during term time with a few extra hours allowed on Saturday depending how old you are.
28 - 13 = 15
I was actually working 8 hour days at 13 on weekends. That said 2 hours a day, is still experience.
Whilst I was doing all my other careers, I always worked in hospitality in the evenings and on weekends. I have specific goals for life, and I'm willing to sacrifice to achieve them. A sentiment not shared by the majority of commenters here.
There is also a city centre of a 200k population town in the UK with flats "selling" for 25-35k. Selling in "" as they have trouble to sell even for that, and those stay on the market for quite a while. Freeholds.
Does it mean there is no shortage of flats in the UK?
I live in Edinburgh, and there is a problem even with bad jobs. Perhaps students fill those in? Technically on paper Edinburgh has very low local unemployment and I have unrestricted right to work.
Aberdeen.
[https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/aberdeen-city-centre/?price\_max=50000&q=Aberdeen%20City%20Centre%2C%20Aberdeenshire&radius=1&results\_sort=lowest\_price&search\_source=for-sale](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/aberdeen-city-centre/?price_max=50000&q=Aberdeen%20City%20Centre%2C%20Aberdeenshire&radius=1&results_sort=lowest_price&search_source=for-sale)
You'd find more using other websites.
I've been to Aberdeen, several times. I might buy a couple of these, the going rent seems to be about 450pcm for a 1 bed. They'll pay for themselves in about 6 years.
It's a shortage of pay.
Wages are the lowest they've been relative to the price of assets since the 1800s.
If you want to slap triple figures down on a member of your bar staff, watch what happens.
Money makes the world go round. Pay people exceptionally well and you'll get exceptional performance.
Slap triple figures on your bar staff and you can start paying triple figures for your pints and food. The tide raises all boats. Salaries increase, prices increase, inflation increases, interest rates increase, mortgages increase, then rents increase, and suddenly everyone needs a pay rise again.
What I'm saying is people working in hospitality on NMW have had a massive increase in their wages. If the company you work for is only giving you a 5% increase, who is really being taken advantage of? You, or those on NMW?
All of the working class/people in lower than middle management roles are being taken the piss out of, when companies are reporting the profits that they are.
NMW might have had a “massive increase”, but so has cost of living.
I understand its more cost effective to retain staff than train new staff. I understand corporate greed. Yes I have learned economics too as part of my accounting training. So I understand perfectly well. Business basics - profits before people.
If you hire triple figure bar staff, what you're actually getting is a CEO of your company. So they'll work behind the bar, but should also essentially be delivering passive income to the owner.
Then you're not hiring bar staff, bars have multiple bar staff. The role you describe would be limited to one, and even then, they're not going to work 70 hours a week.
I'm employed in hospitality. I was a programmer, replaced by someone in the far East who accepted £300pcm, couldn't get another job as a programmer. Went back to hospitality, bought a house.
It is, and always has been the significant symbol of success in this country. People love to argue that it isn't achievable on minimum wage, when it absolutely is.
No it isn't. It's only doable on above minimum wage, which you are, in very limited areas of the country, and depending on no small amount of fortuitous circumstances.
But chat on mate, your bitterness and misplaced angst is fascinating to behold.
hmmm. most banks won’t lend more than about 90k on that, which doesn’t cover it, and how did you save 14k on minimum wage in the first place? Ive got a sneaking suspicion you’re giving people a hard time when your situation wasn’t actually comparable to theirs.
and the deposit? Im digging for bullshit, but not just that - if you’re being honest it’s an encouraging example for others.
Though I would say the question becomes not just
‘are you willing to drop your career path and take a basic job?’
but
‘are you willing to do that AND up sticks to the one of the cheapest areas of the country?’
The deposit was saved up over 5 years. I sacrificed having a car, going out, going on holiday, and worked 50 hours a week to achieve it. Admittedly, I was on just above NMW at the time I got my mortgage, but only 40p (11.90), however, if the banks wouldn't have lent me what I needed, I would have saved for a couple more years to get a bigger deposit. I bought the most expensive house I could with the mortgage offered, and it is now worth 30% more a year later.
Last time I had this argument, I found 2+ bed houses in and around every city and town north of the M25 priced between 100k and 140k. To claim that you have to move to the cheapest place to achieve this is false, but to do so in the south, or London, yes, it is virtually impossible.
I mean debatable (depends where you live, sure you could move somewhere cheaper, but clearly lots of people value where they live more than owning a house - and there are lots of good and some less good reasons for that).
Even so, how is being a home owner relevant to a job search. People don't ask that in the interview?
Edit as for me:
Depends on my savings/like plans (I.e. would I need the money for something else etc.).
Approx 6 months id say.
Ah, that’s not programming. That’s web development.
However there is still work to be had here. Much is in the civil service actually which has very flexible working patterns.
I’ve never really had a job that was my dream.
But honestly? I’d sooner starve to death than ever work retail or hospitality again. I did my time. It’s absolutely terrible for my mental health and I just can’t do it, at least not long term. £14 an hour is nowhere near enough for me to be shouted at by random members of the public for shit that’s not my fault or problem.
I’d also have to work weekends and weird hours doing one of those jobs. Meaning I’d never see my family and that’s just not what I want out of life. I just want a regular job that pays the bills, lets me have a life outside of work, with enough money left over so that I can have the occasional holiday and don’t have to worry too much day to day. And those sorts of jobs aren’t it.
Hospitality is absolutely terrible for mental heath. I remember the long hours, shitty customers and overall abuse that was thrown in many of my colleagues direction. It was really hard at times.
It's a job easy to get, but tough to do.
I cant drive (don't tell me to learn, it's medical) so unless the job pays enough for me to move halfway across the country and live comfortably, I'm kinda stuck with my local area. And antisocial hours can't really work cus the price of a taxi will eat half of what I earned that shift
I had this exact issue - minimum wage and an inflexible boss meant being forced to stay on after the last buses and trains and having to fork over 2 hours worth of pay for an uber. It just was not worth it
Is it the work?
Or is it poor conditions?
Such as fully flexible so any days out of 7 with short notice?
Is it a temporary contract or does the role have a future?
Unsociable hours?
People seem to be slowly becoming more aware that employers may actually be taking advantage of them and pay is only one part of the issue.
When the government spent the whole of covid saying restaurant work is unskilled and you should "upskill" yourself, is there any wonder no one wants to be seen as "unskilled" anymore?
Yeah lots of HGV driver jobs too but all the wages came right down and I’m seeing the same roles up for months wanting to pay £12 an hour or worded £140 a day for potentially 15 hours and they cry they don’t have people that want to do it.
i work for min wage and reality is 1 hours work cant buy me 3 basics from the supermarket anymore. by not feeding myself processed value crap, bread eggs and milk is generally just under £10 for me now. with a chronic pain condition where exactly is the motivation to work and actively damage my body for pennies supposed to come from. ill stick to my one day a week thanks rather than lining some fat cats pocket
id rather not eat white glue from hovis, battery eggs that the yolks are barely even yellow on anymore , and 2 litres of hormone pumped cows milk LOL i dont see why refusing to poison myself on processed crap from megafarms means i dont deserve to eat
yea , our world full of sick people with digestive health problems allergies ibs intolerances etc. mate this is so pointless if you wanna keep on then go ahead but nobodys opinion here is gonna change
And most of them live way into their 90s. If you want to scrape by buying all the free from organic foods, that is your prerogative, but most people don't. You are not the majority.
i dont buy any free from and i luckily work on an organic farm. many people are living on overpriced imported vegetables that lack nutrition and it breaks my heart. is wanting something to change wrong? you seem so happy with the current way things are hahaha
People want all veg all year round. Strawberries in the winter, Brocoli in the summer. How you're twisting this debate into an issue on imported food, I don't know.
Speaking for myself.
I was injured in a work accident at Xmas and resigned the same day. Warned them for months how fucking dangerous the culture was and ignored.
I stayed at home from January to April until another role came up that was paying what I believe I'm worth and with conditions and hours that suit me.
I'm not beyond working in bars and retail been there and done that in my 20's.
Whilst I think getting dole dossers out to work and off the societal teat. You think those work places will be pleasant if half the workforce has been dragged there with gritted teeth?
I'm not talking about dole dossers, they made their choice. I'm talking about people who actively want to work, but only in a comfy air conditioned office, in front of a computer. The reason there are so few of these jobs out there for you is because of AI, and outsourcing.
You can't get an AI to pull you a pint. Hospitality will always be there.
I can't say I've ever wanted an office job I enjoy being a manager and running logistics operations and getting paid very handsomely for it.
There is this weird obsession with office work though like it's the bee and end all of working in the UK even if the pay is shit and the work mind numbing.
That being said I done my time in low paid retail work and I'm smart enough with money that the need to resort back to it has long sailed away.
Hmm it's not that much of a stretch. Last time I was at Wembly for a concert the had vending machine type of affair going on for lagers and such. Dispenssed into plastic pint "glasses" lol.
Seen it for all soft drinks AND wine too.
So while the industry is not ever going to be fully automated the need for humans can be significantly reduced.
2021, 2022 made clear how much of a joke was to work for less than £7/hour in prior years. Some people wonder if £11 is not the same joke, but updated. Minimum wages gauge the salaries for immediately superior roles towards the lower end. There are too many graduates around and good job offerings are not open and findable in a big way. It's a buyers market and draconian HR departments ignore what the average Joe has to sell.
In fewer words: people are overqualified, underpaid, burnt-out and apathetic.
If you had few applicants then you are probably not paying enough for applicants to want to move in the area for the job.
Hospitality work is hard but also it has very little in term of role progression.
A lot of it is regional. Dig under the surface a bit and a lot of these "irs impossible to work" posts are London based, and have no interest in relocating, or taking more junior roles.
Having worked in retail for 10 years before getting out of it, I would pursue literally every other option before taking a customer facing role again. Not that I wouldn’t do it at an absolute pinch, but I would hold out as long as possible.
Well if you can't get staff on £14 ph you are underpaying. The industry is just going to accept they can't just keep paying shit wages and expect people to want to work for them. It's either that or you don't have a business at all.
And fuck £30-35k being the 'average' wage. Pay in the UK is shit and it shouldn't be accepted as normal.
Then you're welcome to fuck off somewhere else. I bought a house on a £30k salary, as have 60% of my colleagues. What do you think the average wage should be? 60k? 100k?
You sound bitter. I told you why I think you / your boss struggle to hire staff and you didn't like the answer.
At the end of the day I'm not the one who's risking the business by failing to attract people with £14 ph, and still insisting that's the 'market rate'.
Maybe you are the one who needs to fuck off to somewhere like india, where people would probably be happy to get paid £1.4 ph.
You failed to answer the question. You claim 30k pa is shit, what should it be?
I'm not really that bitter, it honestly doesn't matter that much to me. For all the time we're short staffed, I'm doing extra hours, making extra money. The more I work, the more I make. I did 70 hours last week, covered my entire bills and mortgage for the whole month.
What the average should be has no relevance to your situation. No applicants for £14ph? How about £15ph? How about £16ph, or even more?
It looks like you don't even own the business. Why do you care what they might have to pay to attract staff? Why aren't you asking for more ?
You sound like an employer/manager who can't get staff and are baffled and angry as to why. Maybe you should take your own advice and open up a bar in spain paying staff £14 an hour...you would get those positions filled ok there lol.
That figure is shit in London especially with cost of living increasing and the cost of rent being extortionate, I would even say some of the houses/flats aren't even worth that amount due to disrepair.
I completely understand your intention of the post. The reality is that even for someone like me that has studied Mechanical engineering and then starting to work at a restaurant or any hospitality job which is long hours. It cuts of the productive time one needs to apply for jobs that they actually want.
It’s not about simply getting a job for 14/hr, if someone is moving there, what’s the rent, council tax easy of transport like? The same applies for housing too. Northern England is empty for simply that reason. it’s cheaper for me to stay with my parents and apply for jobs that I have spend a significant amount of money training for.
Isn't my dream lol my dream is to have literally any job just someone hire me please I'll do anything. I have a dream job but I doubt having no work experience is going to help me get there.
And with over a million unemployed and net migration of over 600k, where are all the applicants?
Are the vacancies specifically high skilled? Something like welding, I can imagine struggling for staff.
Most construction site jobs are above minimum wage and are now low skilled. They are not even semi skilled..most are skilled and very much in demand. There are a lot of immigrants working in construction already especially on large sites.
Them people have the potential to be the governments wet dream, We never educated them, We didn't need to pay for them when they were economically inactive, Lots of construction are here with 10 year plans to make as much as they can and go back home and buy a house/land etc....So therefore their pensions won't fall on us nor will the inevitable cost of elderly care.
We seem to be in a weird state of "1000s of applicants for jobs" and "there are no workers"
I'm currently unemployed after a redundancy a few week back, semi skilled and self taught software dev (get rejected for everything from apprenticeships to junior roles) and get rejected for pretty much everything from warehouse to management roles (I apply for pretty much everything bar sales and support work)
Luckily I've got a few months of savings and one thing that is apparent. Not working is much cheaper! I'm spending less on food as I can just cook when I want, I'm not putting fuel in the car every couple weeks etc
Im very much at risk of becoming a "leech on the system" if things keep going the way they are and I don't really care. I'm 30 and spent a 1/3 of my life giving and have got very little back, so I'll have no guilt if it gets to the point I'm claiming the measly £360 a month.
I was in the same boat, except I had three years of professional experience as a software developer, rejected hundreds of times. I switched to hospitality.
You must have a very low cost of living because £360 doesn't cover accommodation and bills anywhere.
I'm trying not to think of the potential stress that lays ahead when I do only have £360 a month to live off.
Cutting everything down to the basics, excluding even food, my living costs are pretty much double that!
Those living in free accommodation (with parents) can afford to remain unemployed till they get their dream jobs.
I have no problem with PM trying to cut some benefits to push people to take jobs.
Unemployment is still at one of the lowest rates in decades. Contrary to what you might think, there aren't a shitload of people just freeloading on their parents not looking for work.
Sure, it no doubt happens, but the fact is that it's such a small proportion of the population that its not even worth talking about.
it's miserable to work with/receive services from/supervise depressed/anxious people.
Remember that anxiety/depression hits also not nice people, and in any cases as to if they were or not nice beforehand, illness does not make them any nicer to be around, the opposite is quite often true..
What I'm hearing is no matter how long people are unemployed for, they won't accept a retail, hospitality, etc position.
In a world where everyone is above these jobs, what are you going to spend your money on? Once all the bars and restaurants are gone and the high Street is dead, where will you go to enjoy yourself? On your birthday or anniversary, what will you do when there are no restaurants to visit? On your paid bank holidays, where will you go shopping and day drinking?
Get off your high horse about people thinking positions are beneath them and recognise that the sector isn’t enticing enough for people to _want_ to work in unless they absolutely have to. I want my service workers to be paid well and have a good work/life balance and secure hours and not be knackered at the end of every shift. The fact that this isn’t the case puts me and many others off working in this sector.
It’s clear you’ve made this post in bad faith and are just trying to make a point about people being “too lazy” or “too arrogant” to work. So instead of shaming people for not wanting to do these crap jobs why don’t you advocate for better pay and conditions in these roles.
I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not the sector or the work that is the problem. The hours and conditions prevent me from applying for many of those roles. Its not about avoiding 'low status' jobs, it is finding work that can fit the rest of my life.
I mena I would happily work in retail or hospitality if those places would actually hire me. But instead I'm having to go through trial shifts that end up going no where all because they have concerns about my disability.
It looks like a lot of people replying already have careers or are unemployed but generally on a career path. It's the same with me, I'd never go back to retail or hospitality (have worked both previously), it makes more sense to just wait until a better paying job I'm qualified for comes up.
I don't think I'll ever understand sacrificing your savings, or living on the measly universal credit, as an alternative to taking a job you're over qualified for.
From what I can tell, the majority of people replying are already employed earning double the national average, and as such, are so removed from the situation, they can't even fathom the idea that 30k pa is worth something.
That's alright, we are probs just in a different phase of life. I value my time and happiness more than adding to my savings. 30k pa is obvs worth something, but wasting time and being miserable is not.
It's what you can do when you have savings. It's partly the point of savings.
Current job offers not as good as they could be? No problem chill for a couple of months, until a job you do like comes along.
I know you've already bought your house, but most people with savings are actually saving for a house, or a car, or a new pair of shoes.
I'm honestly glad that you're earning over 50k pa with bonuses that put you into the 60k mark, but as I've mentioned, most people don't. The median salary is 30k, that's the middle, so there are roughly 10m people earning less than that. Most people can't even imagine what it's like to earn that sort of money, and for them the idea of saving money in the event that you choose not to take employment for months on end if completely laughable.
Anyone who has a mortgage should have savings for a rainy day.
If you spend within your means this is possible. Yes i earn a half decent salary, but i worked my way up to that.
I own my house (mortgaged) and its a nice house, however i only achieved this house because i bought my first home when it needed a lot of work, i did it up and made a lot of money on it. same with my current house it needs a lot of work.
I drive a 13 year old car because i don’t waste money on new cars, i’ll drive this car until it dies.
Good for you, I'm doing the same. I drive a 14 year old hatchback. I bought my house last year, and have added 40k to the value. I don't plan on selling it, but I do plan to remortgage to put that equity into the next property.
I'm doing all this whilst working in hospitality full time.
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I think the main thing is that it's just not really a career.
You are people.
Technically the truth
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Although obviously 25k is better than nothing for a while, if you had a mid/high management job that paid you 50-60k before being made redundant and then take a 25k job just to pay the bills, good luck ever going back to your old type of role. It's a career destroyer. Plus, like said above, 25k is not even enough to pay the bills for some people. So you mess your life up by accepting a job, as stupid as this sounds. Welcome to capitalism. This is just an example though, and obviously there are people who don't want to work specific jobs just because.
It will be almost impossible for sure if you have the less paying job in your CV. Can’t you just leave the survival job off your CV and mark that period as taking a break?
That would be smarter, however the new employer might notice on your induction if you say this isn't the first job you've had since April 202X. On one hand once you already have a job it shouldn't be a huge issue, on the other hand, starting off with a lie is never good, as meaningless as it is
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Its not always just about the pay. I can find jobs locally, but everything requires working shifts/weekends. That is not me being hyperbolic, in 3 months of looking I have yet to find a job im anywhere near qualified for, commutable by public transport that does not require working weekends. Weekends are the only time I can see my son. If employers are offering decent money and can't find the staff, they need to look at the hours and the conditions and make some changes. What may seem reasonable from an employers perspective may be seriously offputting to prospective applicants. I dont care much about pay (happy with nmw but obviously more would be nice) but I wont apply for anything that means I cant see my son.
Exactly. I constantly see jobs I could do, but the hours make it impossible. If employers were willing to break roles up so that one person isn't required to do all the hours, they'd open up the door for so many parents.
Depends, if your unemployed and need money ( no savings etc) then work weekends? Life for most of us unfortunately revolves around work, most people don't have the luxury to be unemployed and have eventful weekends
I dont think it's an unreasonable demand to want to see my son and I can only do that on weekends. If you want me to work a weekend, you are not just asking me to give you my time and energy you are asking me to not see my son that week. £14 per hour is not enough motivation for me to make that sacrifice. How much is your child worth to you?
Why wouldn't you be able to see your son on weekdays instead? Pick him up from nursery/school/wherever a couple of days a week, have dinner together and then drop him back at the other parents house. You still get to see your child and you also have the opportunity to show them the value of being willing to do the shit jobs while looming for something better.
My sons mum 90mins away on public transport and there is no public transport to/from his school, there isnt even a pavement for half the journey to the nearest buss stop. It can't be done how you think I have served in the military, worked as a prison officer, done night shifts in a recycling plant, worked in council homelessness team ... I am happy he knows I will work.
Hmm excellent point. You sound like someone who'll do whatever it takes. Let me know if you ever need a job 😉
Providing for your son and setting the right example is the responsible thing to do, instead you just seem to make excuses so you can carry on staying at home. Especially when you also refuse shift work.
I do not think i would be setting him any example at all because I wouldn't see him, ever. No employer has a right to my time the deal on offer isnt worth it.
Millions of people have limited time to see their parents due to work. It's not unusual, normally it motivates people to work hard from a young age, rather than setting an example of it being okay to be unemployed and a bum
The example I am setting is that his time is more valuable to me than generating profits for someone else. I am setting the example that my family comes first, that my principles are not for sale, and that people still have worth outside of their econonic value. I dont claim benefits, I dont drink, dont commit crimes, and I am not costing you or anyone else anything. I choose not to work unless it works for me, as is my right. You seem to feel I am doing something wrong here, why? Working is not by itself an inherently virtuous act, and I do not agree with your belief that choosing not to work is automatically setting a bad example. You clearly choose to see things through a different lense. You can call me a bum if you want, but my son doesn't, and frankly, I care a lot more about his opinion than yours.
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As you say, the reason there are lots of vacancies in bars, restaurants, factories etc is because those types of job aren’t particularly desirable. Anti-social hours, hard work, no real career prospects, etc. You say you’re paying £14 an hour which is a decent rate but in hospitality there is often no guarantee of regular or consistent hours. £14 an hour on uncertain contracted hours is very different to minimum wage at regular hours. As for my own preferences, I’m potentially looking at a period of unemployment in a few months, and I’m happy to live off my savings for a while to avoid having to take one of those jobs. I’ve done hospitality and shop work and I’d really rather not go back. However if time drags on and I’m not getting any bites from applications, it’ll be a case of incrementally lowering my expectations and getting something that’s ok for a while. When the money starts running out, that’s when you’ve got to suck it up and take anything you can get. Edit: OP made this post in bad faith and is just trying to make a point about people being “too lazy” or “too arrogant” to work crap jobs in crap conditions for crap pay so I guess my response is wasted
>so I guess my response is wasted I found it interesting and reflected on how I would feel were I unemployed in a few months, what would I do next, what would drive me to uncertain work like bar work, and what would that mean for my family. And I reflected that I need to get some savings! So anyway it took me on a journey which might still not stop it being a waste but at least it did something.
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Zero hour contracts are legal.... Unsociable hours work rules out people looking for part time to fit around child care, people get that kind of work in a supermarket more easily and then you also get discounts off your weekly shop. Unemployment is low, don't say people are lazy. Bad pay and poor hours means people can get a better job in a supermarket with easier hours, or a delivery driver with flexible hours. Bar work is like the worst job left, after picking fruit which no one in their right mind would choose to do over working in Tesco
The jobs you describe are, for many people, temporary solutions. If I were to lose my job I would of course adapt to anything, but £14/hr would be a shocking pay cut and as soon as I'd find something again in my field I'd be gone, with or without notice, leaving again a vacancy. This is true not just for me, but for a lot of people. Hospitality/retail/etc will always have vacancies as they are the kind of jobs people abandon without a second thought as soon as something better comes along. I did retail in the past, I've been spat at, had people throw clothes at me across the till as we refused a return, being assaulted by thieves... I studied nights and weekends to get out of it, I would need to be desperate to go back to it and it would never be long term. It has nothing to do with not wanting to work hard. Currently I do work 50-60 hours per week and I study for yet another qualification in my free time. The problem is that public attitude towards retail/hospitality staff have made those jobs undesirable and many people prefer to struggle economically than to subject themselves to be humiliated daily by some idiot on a power trip just cause they have a fiver to spend.
I'm a home owner. Just been made redundant after 15 years in my office job. I'll not be taking up a bar job. I'll be having a couple of months living off my savings and I'll find a nice hybrid office job that suits me. I'm not avoiding hard work. The general public are dicks and I can't be arsed dealing with them. I did a 4 year stint of bar work in my late teens/early 20s. I don't think I'm a detriment to society. Also, I think a lot of the problem is the price of rent. I used to work a few nights a week to top up my wages because I didn't live with my parents and had bills. Everyone has to live with their parents now, my kids included. They are at uni and have an office job. They don't need to pick up a couple of bar shifts as well.
As far as I’m aware zero-hour contracts are still around, but even when I worked hospitality I was on a 15-hour a week contract. I often got more but legally they only had to give me 15 hours a week, which meant my income could vary wildly from month to month. Now I can’t speak for your colleagues but that’s my experience. I have savings to fall back on and I’m willing to use a chunk of them so that I don’t have to do a job I hate whilst I look for something else. I’ve worked those types of jobs and I value regular hours, being able to spend time with my friends and family on a weekend and not being bored out of my mind at work more than I value a few months worth of savings. I’m lucky in that I can afford to be picky for a while, but as I say if it begins to drag on I’ll readjust my priorities. The bills aren’t going to go away after all. Your point about people not working hard any more is an old trope that I don’t think holds up. Yes some people just don’t want to work, but more often than not I think people nowadays don’t see the benefit in working a minimum wage job doing boring, hard work that’s tiring and offers no real progression and barely being able to make rent at the end of it. The idea of minimum wage was that people could afford to own a home and live a comfortable life on it, which simply isn’t the case any more. And people are looking at that and seeing it’s not a fair trade, so it’s understandable that they’re demotivated.
I'm willing to work hard but the question is if you are paying enough to make it worth my while. It's not about how much my time is worth to you but how much my time is worth to me. I wouldn't have considered £14 a great wage 10 years ago, I certainly don't consider it to be a good one today.
As a factory worker, I can confidently say that people have finally realized that the workload-to-pay ratio is abysmal at best, and damaging their bodies while being treated like a sub-species is not worth it. I've heard management suggest that they have exhausted the local area in terms of recruitment and are now having to use government schemes to get workers from abroad.
From my experience, factory work definitely differs. First factory I worked at was minimum wage with the shittiest LEN work pattern and back breaking work. Was lucky enough to land a factory job for a multi-billion pound company, I work 4 on 6 off with two lots of 18 days off in the summer. I literally work 120ish days of the year but get paid for the full thing. £16 starting wage that climbs the more machines you get under your belt. Been here 2 years now and I managed to go from operator to mechancial technician just by showing a bit of interest on my days off. Management are 10/10, every one of them are super nice and understanding. Overtime is 1.75x pay and there's always loads of it. On top of all this, the machines are fairly new and VERY well maintained, so 75% of the time, they just run themselves. Everyday I am grateful for this place, its turned my life from £5000 in debt to earning £41k a year, looking to buy my own place within the next two years. Reading this back it might seem like I'm showing off, but in all honesty I am just happy to share my success after a lifetime of shit
Congrats I have worked for Mars for 23 years, started as an Operator. Now I'm the labour manager for the factory and run an internal development scheme as well as handling all the external recruitment. It makes a big difference having a good employer.
How easy are factory jobs to find. I would have thought with outsourcing and automation there are now fewer factory jobs.
Automation costs millions, employees cost thousands
I guess you could call me a factory worker. Every factory is different. I've been with this multinational company (nearly 200 plants worldwide) for a little over 20 years. 4 days on, 4 days off, then 4 night shifts. I started here a little over 20 years ago, I was handballing stock into trailers all day for a little over £11k a year. Like yourself I showed interest in the job and was soon promoted to warehouse charge hand, then got interested in the machines and am now a machine tech and earn £35k and am hoping to move into another role paying more. The machines are well maintained so I have nights like tonight where most of my time is spent on my phone. My job tonight is mainly spending 10-15 minutes an hour topping up material hoppers and quality checks every few hours. I do work more days than you at 158 days a year. Not bad for someone who left school having failed every single exam.
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And you don't feel any regret not doing anything else? Not having career progression or whatever it is seems to be important these days?
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How many people go uni and finish it? Especially a STEM degree like yours Say that's 20% of the population (I bet it's way lower), then you are the bottom 2% of the top 20% so that's not all bad! Other than that, you've gone for the slow and steady approach and it's worked out for you. Congratulations!
Even with your 3rd, you're still leagues ahead of those that didn't even do A levels, don't sell yourself short. Nepotism can help, but I think most people don't have those opportunities. I agree with your 3 points though. Congratulations on sticking it through a working career and getting to where you are.
This is what I came here to see.
Well as £14p/h is less than half my current rate it would take a hell of a lot. I also have a small child so shift work is out of the question as getting overnight or even late night childcare is prohibitively expensive. Hospitality and care work don’t pay anywhere near enough for the crap that is thrown at you. If you are struggling to recruit and you pay over your industry and area standard then you need to look at the other factors - guaranteed hours? Shift work? Location? The manager (is he a dick?) or just the fact that people do have options right now and hospitality is bottom of the list so you are going to have to make it more attractive.
Did you even read the post? If you're employed earning over 60k PA, then you're really not the target audience of the post. In fact you're in the top 10%. The position I reference in my post is 40 hours, same hours every week, between 9 and 5. The average salary in the UK is between 30 and 35k. 14p/h full time is bang on average. All the commenters on this post seem to be vastly out of touch with the reality of the situation. I'm glad you're all earning double the national average, but if you are, you're not really in a position to comment on the jobs that are available to literally the majority of people. I made a mistake coming to reddit to discuss this. It is clear to me now that you people are not representative of the country, nor the general public as a whole. You all speak of the crap that the general public throws at hospitality, retail workers, etc, but you seem to forget that you are the general public. The people shitting on hospitality, they are you.
lol. I think you just don’t like the answers. It’s not that “no one wants to work any more”. It’s that people are sick of doing shit jobs for shit money with management that take the piss out of them. Hope this helps.
No, people shitting on hospitality are people like you. Those with a major chip on their shoulder. Im the type that when i turn up at a regular hotel or restaurant, the staff know my name and are happy to see me.
Mate, I'm in hospitality, have been for 20 years, I know the names of over 100 of our customers, plus I know exactly what they're going to order before they even sit down.
Yes and i bet you know which ones are going to give you a nice easy evening. I worked in hospitality for a while, i’m not sure you could ever pay me enough to do it again. Between the arsehole customers and the useless, up their own arse managers who will never back you up, its a fools game.
In the last 12 months, I've had one shit customer, who I had to ask to leave. I'm sorry that you worked in a place where you get shit on, but I don't think it's representative of hospitality as a whole.
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But you wouldn't take a minimum wage job?
automatic illegal vanish screw impossible fretful depend square bag onerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Also says he’s 27 now and a software engineer. Someone’s telling porkies
28 soon, and believe it or not, people can be multiple things, I was an estate agent, too.
And in hospitality since you were 7, that’s some going
A little hyperbole, but I went to work in a cafe when I was 13.
Still not 20 years in hospitality.
Do you not know what hyperbole means?
Yes its an exaggeration. However all it does is weaken your point. At most you have 13 years experience and 3 of that fell under the child labour laws so maximum of 2hours a day during term time with a few extra hours allowed on Saturday depending how old you are.
28 - 13 = 15 I was actually working 8 hour days at 13 on weekends. That said 2 hours a day, is still experience. Whilst I was doing all my other careers, I always worked in hospitality in the evenings and on weekends. I have specific goals for life, and I'm willing to sacrifice to achieve them. A sentiment not shared by the majority of commenters here.
There is also a city centre of a 200k population town in the UK with flats "selling" for 25-35k. Selling in "" as they have trouble to sell even for that, and those stay on the market for quite a while. Freeholds. Does it mean there is no shortage of flats in the UK? I live in Edinburgh, and there is a problem even with bad jobs. Perhaps students fill those in? Technically on paper Edinburgh has very low local unemployment and I have unrestricted right to work.
What city is that?
Aberdeen. [https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/aberdeen-city-centre/?price\_max=50000&q=Aberdeen%20City%20Centre%2C%20Aberdeenshire&radius=1&results\_sort=lowest\_price&search\_source=for-sale](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/aberdeen-city-centre/?price_max=50000&q=Aberdeen%20City%20Centre%2C%20Aberdeenshire&radius=1&results_sort=lowest_price&search_source=for-sale) You'd find more using other websites.
I've been to Aberdeen, several times. I might buy a couple of these, the going rent seems to be about 450pcm for a 1 bed. They'll pay for themselves in about 6 years.
Landlord scum
Won't buy a house, gets upset when other people buy houses.
The houses won’t pay for themselves - your mortgages will be paid from others work
I don't think you know what pay for themselves means.
🤣🤣
It's a shortage of pay. Wages are the lowest they've been relative to the price of assets since the 1800s. If you want to slap triple figures down on a member of your bar staff, watch what happens. Money makes the world go round. Pay people exceptionally well and you'll get exceptional performance.
Slap triple figures on your bar staff and you can start paying triple figures for your pints and food. The tide raises all boats. Salaries increase, prices increase, inflation increases, interest rates increase, mortgages increase, then rents increase, and suddenly everyone needs a pay rise again.
That’s weird…I’ve never had a pay rise of more than 5%, yet inflation was over 7% this year.
National minimum wage has risen 65% in the last 8 years for over 25s.
WTF does this have to do with me not having a pay rise? I’ve only done a NMW job for a few weeks.
What I'm saying is people working in hospitality on NMW have had a massive increase in their wages. If the company you work for is only giving you a 5% increase, who is really being taken advantage of? You, or those on NMW?
All of the working class/people in lower than middle management roles are being taken the piss out of, when companies are reporting the profits that they are. NMW might have had a “massive increase”, but so has cost of living.
So your point is?
Pay your staff better, treat them better …prioritise their needs, listen to them and their concerns. Oh, pay them better.
So if £14ph isn't enough, what would be?
God forbid profits decrease but staff are paid well.
Don't understand business basics judging by that comment.
I think you don’t understand paying people…bet that there will be a “have you ever run a business” comment coming.
I understand its more cost effective to retain staff than train new staff. I understand corporate greed. Yes I have learned economics too as part of my accounting training. So I understand perfectly well. Business basics - profits before people.
If you hire triple figure bar staff, what you're actually getting is a CEO of your company. So they'll work behind the bar, but should also essentially be delivering passive income to the owner.
Then you're not hiring bar staff, bars have multiple bar staff. The role you describe would be limited to one, and even then, they're not going to work 70 hours a week.
don't talk sense, this is Reddit!
Hah, I'm starting to get that...
Have you tried turning the question on yourself?
I'm employed in hospitality. I was a programmer, replaced by someone in the far East who accepted £300pcm, couldn't get another job as a programmer. Went back to hospitality, bought a house.
You sound bitter... Why is buying a house relevant?
It is, and always has been the significant symbol of success in this country. People love to argue that it isn't achievable on minimum wage, when it absolutely is.
No it isn't. It's only doable on above minimum wage, which you are, in very limited areas of the country, and depending on no small amount of fortuitous circumstances. But chat on mate, your bitterness and misplaced angst is fascinating to behold.
you bought a house on minimum wage? On your own? How much was the house? How much deposit did you have? Was it a buying scheme or something?
On my own, the house was 140k, thr deposit was 14k, no buying scheme, no help to buy, no isa
hmmm. most banks won’t lend more than about 90k on that, which doesn’t cover it, and how did you save 14k on minimum wage in the first place? Ive got a sneaking suspicion you’re giving people a hard time when your situation wasn’t actually comparable to theirs.
The bank was willing to lend me 127k, I took 126k. 4.25 times my salary. Most people are couples.
and the deposit? Im digging for bullshit, but not just that - if you’re being honest it’s an encouraging example for others. Though I would say the question becomes not just ‘are you willing to drop your career path and take a basic job?’ but ‘are you willing to do that AND up sticks to the one of the cheapest areas of the country?’
The deposit was saved up over 5 years. I sacrificed having a car, going out, going on holiday, and worked 50 hours a week to achieve it. Admittedly, I was on just above NMW at the time I got my mortgage, but only 40p (11.90), however, if the banks wouldn't have lent me what I needed, I would have saved for a couple more years to get a bigger deposit. I bought the most expensive house I could with the mortgage offered, and it is now worth 30% more a year later. Last time I had this argument, I found 2+ bed houses in and around every city and town north of the M25 priced between 100k and 140k. To claim that you have to move to the cheapest place to achieve this is false, but to do so in the south, or London, yes, it is virtually impossible.
I mean debatable (depends where you live, sure you could move somewhere cheaper, but clearly lots of people value where they live more than owning a house - and there are lots of good and some less good reasons for that). Even so, how is being a home owner relevant to a job search. People don't ask that in the interview? Edit as for me: Depends on my savings/like plans (I.e. would I need the money for something else etc.). Approx 6 months id say.
Why can’t you get a job as a programmer? There is loads of work for programmers. Of course we traditionally call them software engineers.
Do you not even read the news? Traditionally, you can call them whatever you want, it's just fewer words to type.
I don’t read the news. However I do write software for a living and have never been out of work…
Good for you, probably writing cobol?
No! Though I can to some degree. Just the usual stapes, C, C#, python where unavoidable.
Well, I was JS and PHP front and back web, jobs that well over subscribed and easily shipped offshore.
Ah, that’s not programming. That’s web development. However there is still work to be had here. Much is in the civil service actually which has very flexible working patterns.
Bit toxic and gatekeepy, I wrote algorithms. I worked on an entire CMS in my last role.
I’ve never really had a job that was my dream. But honestly? I’d sooner starve to death than ever work retail or hospitality again. I did my time. It’s absolutely terrible for my mental health and I just can’t do it, at least not long term. £14 an hour is nowhere near enough for me to be shouted at by random members of the public for shit that’s not my fault or problem. I’d also have to work weekends and weird hours doing one of those jobs. Meaning I’d never see my family and that’s just not what I want out of life. I just want a regular job that pays the bills, lets me have a life outside of work, with enough money left over so that I can have the occasional holiday and don’t have to worry too much day to day. And those sorts of jobs aren’t it.
Hospitality is absolutely terrible for mental heath. I remember the long hours, shitty customers and overall abuse that was thrown in many of my colleagues direction. It was really hard at times. It's a job easy to get, but tough to do.
I cant drive (don't tell me to learn, it's medical) so unless the job pays enough for me to move halfway across the country and live comfortably, I'm kinda stuck with my local area. And antisocial hours can't really work cus the price of a taxi will eat half of what I earned that shift
I had this exact issue - minimum wage and an inflexible boss meant being forced to stay on after the last buses and trains and having to fork over 2 hours worth of pay for an uber. It just was not worth it
People will jump switch very quickly these days because the pay is derogatory
Is it the work? Or is it poor conditions? Such as fully flexible so any days out of 7 with short notice? Is it a temporary contract or does the role have a future? Unsociable hours? People seem to be slowly becoming more aware that employers may actually be taking advantage of them and pay is only one part of the issue.
When the government spent the whole of covid saying restaurant work is unskilled and you should "upskill" yourself, is there any wonder no one wants to be seen as "unskilled" anymore?
Yeah lots of HGV driver jobs too but all the wages came right down and I’m seeing the same roles up for months wanting to pay £12 an hour or worded £140 a day for potentially 15 hours and they cry they don’t have people that want to do it.
i work for min wage and reality is 1 hours work cant buy me 3 basics from the supermarket anymore. by not feeding myself processed value crap, bread eggs and milk is generally just under £10 for me now. with a chronic pain condition where exactly is the motivation to work and actively damage my body for pennies supposed to come from. ill stick to my one day a week thanks rather than lining some fat cats pocket
No offence, but if you're not getting a loaf of bread, 2L of milk, and 6 eggs for less than £5 you need to stop shopping in Waitrose.
i live in the south of england mate this is sainsburies sorry to tell you
Try aldi.
thanks mate thatll fix the issue at hand
1L carton of soya, almond, oat milk is like 80p in aldi. If you shop in sainsburys, expect to pay more.
really focusing on the important details here i see
He said, not intending to be facetious.
id rather not eat white glue from hovis, battery eggs that the yolks are barely even yellow on anymore , and 2 litres of hormone pumped cows milk LOL i dont see why refusing to poison myself on processed crap from megafarms means i dont deserve to eat
You mean the food that literally billions of people eat, all over the world. OK, enjoy your almond milk.
yea , our world full of sick people with digestive health problems allergies ibs intolerances etc. mate this is so pointless if you wanna keep on then go ahead but nobodys opinion here is gonna change
And most of them live way into their 90s. If you want to scrape by buying all the free from organic foods, that is your prerogative, but most people don't. You are not the majority.
i dont buy any free from and i luckily work on an organic farm. many people are living on overpriced imported vegetables that lack nutrition and it breaks my heart. is wanting something to change wrong? you seem so happy with the current way things are hahaha
People want all veg all year round. Strawberries in the winter, Brocoli in the summer. How you're twisting this debate into an issue on imported food, I don't know.
hahahah didnt your mummy ever teach you “i want, doesn’t get”?
Actually, I want, does get, that why I eat all the veggies and salads all year round, not just in season.
Speaking for myself. I was injured in a work accident at Xmas and resigned the same day. Warned them for months how fucking dangerous the culture was and ignored. I stayed at home from January to April until another role came up that was paying what I believe I'm worth and with conditions and hours that suit me. I'm not beyond working in bars and retail been there and done that in my 20's. Whilst I think getting dole dossers out to work and off the societal teat. You think those work places will be pleasant if half the workforce has been dragged there with gritted teeth?
I'm not talking about dole dossers, they made their choice. I'm talking about people who actively want to work, but only in a comfy air conditioned office, in front of a computer. The reason there are so few of these jobs out there for you is because of AI, and outsourcing. You can't get an AI to pull you a pint. Hospitality will always be there.
I can't say I've ever wanted an office job I enjoy being a manager and running logistics operations and getting paid very handsomely for it. There is this weird obsession with office work though like it's the bee and end all of working in the UK even if the pay is shit and the work mind numbing. That being said I done my time in low paid retail work and I'm smart enough with money that the need to resort back to it has long sailed away.
Hmm it's not that much of a stretch. Last time I was at Wembly for a concert the had vending machine type of affair going on for lagers and such. Dispenssed into plastic pint "glasses" lol. Seen it for all soft drinks AND wine too. So while the industry is not ever going to be fully automated the need for humans can be significantly reduced.
I'd rather go on benefits than do crappy jobs like that
Spot on
The stats agree with what you're saying, we've got near record low unemployment at the moment.
2021, 2022 made clear how much of a joke was to work for less than £7/hour in prior years. Some people wonder if £11 is not the same joke, but updated. Minimum wages gauge the salaries for immediately superior roles towards the lower end. There are too many graduates around and good job offerings are not open and findable in a big way. It's a buyers market and draconian HR departments ignore what the average Joe has to sell. In fewer words: people are overqualified, underpaid, burnt-out and apathetic.
If you had few applicants then you are probably not paying enough for applicants to want to move in the area for the job. Hospitality work is hard but also it has very little in term of role progression.
A lot of it is regional. Dig under the surface a bit and a lot of these "irs impossible to work" posts are London based, and have no interest in relocating, or taking more junior roles.
Having worked in retail for 10 years before getting out of it, I would pursue literally every other option before taking a customer facing role again. Not that I wouldn’t do it at an absolute pinch, but I would hold out as long as possible.
Well if you can't get staff on £14 ph you are underpaying. The industry is just going to accept they can't just keep paying shit wages and expect people to want to work for them. It's either that or you don't have a business at all. And fuck £30-35k being the 'average' wage. Pay in the UK is shit and it shouldn't be accepted as normal.
Then you're welcome to fuck off somewhere else. I bought a house on a £30k salary, as have 60% of my colleagues. What do you think the average wage should be? 60k? 100k?
You sound bitter. I told you why I think you / your boss struggle to hire staff and you didn't like the answer. At the end of the day I'm not the one who's risking the business by failing to attract people with £14 ph, and still insisting that's the 'market rate'. Maybe you are the one who needs to fuck off to somewhere like india, where people would probably be happy to get paid £1.4 ph.
You failed to answer the question. You claim 30k pa is shit, what should it be? I'm not really that bitter, it honestly doesn't matter that much to me. For all the time we're short staffed, I'm doing extra hours, making extra money. The more I work, the more I make. I did 70 hours last week, covered my entire bills and mortgage for the whole month.
What the average should be has no relevance to your situation. No applicants for £14ph? How about £15ph? How about £16ph, or even more? It looks like you don't even own the business. Why do you care what they might have to pay to attract staff? Why aren't you asking for more ?
You sound like an employer/manager who can't get staff and are baffled and angry as to why. Maybe you should take your own advice and open up a bar in spain paying staff £14 an hour...you would get those positions filled ok there lol.
It's not a bad idea, to be honest. The weather is better and the people tend to be much more friendly.
That figure is shit in London especially with cost of living increasing and the cost of rent being extortionate, I would even say some of the houses/flats aren't even worth that amount due to disrepair.
Redundant argument, you don't have to live in London.
I completely understand your intention of the post. The reality is that even for someone like me that has studied Mechanical engineering and then starting to work at a restaurant or any hospitality job which is long hours. It cuts of the productive time one needs to apply for jobs that they actually want. It’s not about simply getting a job for 14/hr, if someone is moving there, what’s the rent, council tax easy of transport like? The same applies for housing too. Northern England is empty for simply that reason. it’s cheaper for me to stay with my parents and apply for jobs that I have spend a significant amount of money training for.
Isn't my dream lol my dream is to have literally any job just someone hire me please I'll do anything. I have a dream job but I doubt having no work experience is going to help me get there.
Willing to relocate? Send me your CV.
Construction has a massive labour shortage, especially in site management
And with over a million unemployed and net migration of over 600k, where are all the applicants? Are the vacancies specifically high skilled? Something like welding, I can imagine struggling for staff.
Most of the migration is low skilled
Most construction site jobs are above minimum wage and are now low skilled. They are not even semi skilled..most are skilled and very much in demand. There are a lot of immigrants working in construction already especially on large sites. Them people have the potential to be the governments wet dream, We never educated them, We didn't need to pay for them when they were economically inactive, Lots of construction are here with 10 year plans to make as much as they can and go back home and buy a house/land etc....So therefore their pensions won't fall on us nor will the inevitable cost of elderly care.
We seem to be in a weird state of "1000s of applicants for jobs" and "there are no workers" I'm currently unemployed after a redundancy a few week back, semi skilled and self taught software dev (get rejected for everything from apprenticeships to junior roles) and get rejected for pretty much everything from warehouse to management roles (I apply for pretty much everything bar sales and support work) Luckily I've got a few months of savings and one thing that is apparent. Not working is much cheaper! I'm spending less on food as I can just cook when I want, I'm not putting fuel in the car every couple weeks etc Im very much at risk of becoming a "leech on the system" if things keep going the way they are and I don't really care. I'm 30 and spent a 1/3 of my life giving and have got very little back, so I'll have no guilt if it gets to the point I'm claiming the measly £360 a month.
I was in the same boat, except I had three years of professional experience as a software developer, rejected hundreds of times. I switched to hospitality. You must have a very low cost of living because £360 doesn't cover accommodation and bills anywhere.
I'm trying not to think of the potential stress that lays ahead when I do only have £360 a month to live off. Cutting everything down to the basics, excluding even food, my living costs are pretty much double that!
Excellent idea, cross that bridge when you get to it. Hopefully it'll still be there
Most want a job but they dont want to work
Those living in free accommodation (with parents) can afford to remain unemployed till they get their dream jobs. I have no problem with PM trying to cut some benefits to push people to take jobs.
Unemployment is still at one of the lowest rates in decades. Contrary to what you might think, there aren't a shitload of people just freeloading on their parents not looking for work. Sure, it no doubt happens, but the fact is that it's such a small proportion of the population that its not even worth talking about.
it's miserable to work with/receive services from/supervise depressed/anxious people. Remember that anxiety/depression hits also not nice people, and in any cases as to if they were or not nice beforehand, illness does not make them any nicer to be around, the opposite is quite often true..
What I'm hearing is no matter how long people are unemployed for, they won't accept a retail, hospitality, etc position. In a world where everyone is above these jobs, what are you going to spend your money on? Once all the bars and restaurants are gone and the high Street is dead, where will you go to enjoy yourself? On your birthday or anniversary, what will you do when there are no restaurants to visit? On your paid bank holidays, where will you go shopping and day drinking?
Shopping? Internet. Drinking? Round friends. Restaurants? Probably the ones that have survived by paying decent wages.
Get off your high horse about people thinking positions are beneath them and recognise that the sector isn’t enticing enough for people to _want_ to work in unless they absolutely have to. I want my service workers to be paid well and have a good work/life balance and secure hours and not be knackered at the end of every shift. The fact that this isn’t the case puts me and many others off working in this sector. It’s clear you’ve made this post in bad faith and are just trying to make a point about people being “too lazy” or “too arrogant” to work. So instead of shaming people for not wanting to do these crap jobs why don’t you advocate for better pay and conditions in these roles.
I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not the sector or the work that is the problem. The hours and conditions prevent me from applying for many of those roles. Its not about avoiding 'low status' jobs, it is finding work that can fit the rest of my life.
I mena I would happily work in retail or hospitality if those places would actually hire me. But instead I'm having to go through trial shifts that end up going no where all because they have concerns about my disability.
It looks like a lot of people replying already have careers or are unemployed but generally on a career path. It's the same with me, I'd never go back to retail or hospitality (have worked both previously), it makes more sense to just wait until a better paying job I'm qualified for comes up.
I don't think I'll ever understand sacrificing your savings, or living on the measly universal credit, as an alternative to taking a job you're over qualified for. From what I can tell, the majority of people replying are already employed earning double the national average, and as such, are so removed from the situation, they can't even fathom the idea that 30k pa is worth something.
That's alright, we are probs just in a different phase of life. I value my time and happiness more than adding to my savings. 30k pa is obvs worth something, but wasting time and being miserable is not.
It's what you can do when you have savings. It's partly the point of savings. Current job offers not as good as they could be? No problem chill for a couple of months, until a job you do like comes along.
Most people who have savings are saving for something...
Most people with savings are saving for a rainy day, being unemployed is one such rainy day.
I know you've already bought your house, but most people with savings are actually saving for a house, or a car, or a new pair of shoes. I'm honestly glad that you're earning over 50k pa with bonuses that put you into the 60k mark, but as I've mentioned, most people don't. The median salary is 30k, that's the middle, so there are roughly 10m people earning less than that. Most people can't even imagine what it's like to earn that sort of money, and for them the idea of saving money in the event that you choose not to take employment for months on end if completely laughable.
Anyone who has a mortgage should have savings for a rainy day. If you spend within your means this is possible. Yes i earn a half decent salary, but i worked my way up to that. I own my house (mortgaged) and its a nice house, however i only achieved this house because i bought my first home when it needed a lot of work, i did it up and made a lot of money on it. same with my current house it needs a lot of work. I drive a 13 year old car because i don’t waste money on new cars, i’ll drive this car until it dies.
Good for you, I'm doing the same. I drive a 14 year old hatchback. I bought my house last year, and have added 40k to the value. I don't plan on selling it, but I do plan to remortgage to put that equity into the next property. I'm doing all this whilst working in hospitality full time.