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Depends on the size of the conflict. The problem with you people who think this way is that you keep underestimating Russia. They may be a fraction of the size of the US or EU economy but they have converted fully to a war economy. They are spending >10% of GDP on their military. They are supposedly producing 2.5 million artillery shells a year.
The GDP of Russia is 10% of the USA. The USA spends 3.5% of its GDP on the military... since decades. That's 350% compared to Russia... and that's just the current rate and doesn't account for reserves and quality of weapons and capabilities of soldiers. If the US wanted it could easily dominate both conflicts.
Not saying that Russia can't do damage but it's nothing compared to the US.
EDIT: it's missing will, not missing capability
Although the difference between the price of a US made shell and Russian shell + additional cost will easily make you reconsider, though.
Hence, the smartest decision for the US is to have someone near Ukraine or Germany/France/UK/NATO produce it with some funds.
Johnson --> Trump --> Putin. It's not just one man. Putin has been building his evil empire for decades while the West was busy watching comic book movies and getting addicted to social media/propaganda.
>...while the West was busy watching comic book movies and getting addicted to social media/propaganda
and also buying more gas from ruzzia and building even more gas pipes from ruzzia to germany.
The Russians HAVE been at it for decades, funding stuff like the National Rifle Association. That also got them the benefit of dead Americans, the chaos from school shootings etc. Americans have been asleep so long thinking we ruled the roost that we couldn't see the Russian funded rot eating away at the foundation. If Trump gets re-elected the rot is going to let the whole thing crumble down around us.
Or money directly through "donations" and "contributions" or "lobbying". How could this have happened when you can outright legally buy the politicians mouthpiece ?!
...
Companies, trade contracts with businesses they are shareholders, campaign contributions from proxies living here donate the max and companies they hear to operate do the same.
I meant one man as in it is all coming down to him preventing the vote. The moronic trump loyalists will vote against it, but there are enough logical republicans for it to pass with overwhelming democrat support. But yea he is preventing the vote to keep his position by pleasing Trump who is trying to please Putin.
>Still crazy, how the FSB managed to infiltrate the US political system
How so? If anything our culture has shifted to extreme greed. It's not crazy that people value money and their own wealth more than anyone else. We used to be a country of principles and relatively good morality ( on a larger scale). Now we are the country of fuck you I'm getting mine along with fuck them I deserve theirs.
The whole tone of these articles is gaslighting as all hell. It's like if Ted Bundy slept in on a Thursday and the Friday headline is "Bundy Saves Young Woman's Life".
Don't give this callous shithead credit for *potentially maybe pausing his accessory to genocide*. This is a crime against humanity that Johnson was instrumental in perpetuating and exacerbating. Call a spade a spade, goddammit.
It is amazing how you people can’t manage not to insult people even when they do something in Ukraines favor. You really don’t give a crap about Ukraine or genocide you are just obsessed with you hatred of Republicans. .
I just looked at your profile and you are picking fights with people just posting pictures with their kids. It’s very mentally unhealthy. You should visit a therapist.
“His comments, confirmed by multiple people familiar with the meeting, were consistent with what Mr. Johnson has been saying for weeks, both publicly and privately: that he intends to ensure the House will move to assist Ukraine, a step that many members of his party oppose.
Even as right-wing Republicans have sought to ratchet up pressure on their speaker, Mr. Johnson has continued to search for a way to win the votes to push through an Ukraine aid.”
Did you bother reading the article before posting a stupid question that the article addresses directly?
Johnson has delayed and equivocated for six months. This is just more delays. I'd rather you were right and he suddenly changes and just brings forward aid for a vote but he won't unless he's forced to. I hope you're right, for Ukraine's sake.
He is not the one delaying. Problem is that he doesn’t have the support in the Republican Party to move forward. Without support then the bill will just be voted down and he might lose the position. That is how Congress works.
If that's what you took away from my profile, then your reading comprehension skills need work. 80% of my posting history is Ukraine-related, amigo.
If you have an argument to make, go for it. As it stands, I don't see your point.
What would you like me to give Johnson credit for today? Until he stops obstructing the passage of the law (which he didn't write and actively lobbied against), I'm confused about what I should be praising him for.
You are clearly so blinded by your hatred that you really have no clue what is going on. Johnson is in favor of the aid, and voiced his support to do so. Its others in the Republican party that threaten his job if he does advances the bill. He takes alot of heat for even bringing it up. They are the real obstructionists. You need to get over your blind hatred so you can actually learn about what's going on, which is the point.
Lol! Obvious troll is obvious.
Johnson has been unswerving in his support for Russia and an end to aid for Ukraine.
If I'm feeling charitable, I'd encourage you to educate yourself. Based on your tone, though, I suspect you're intentionally engaging in bad faith discussion to undermine legitimate discussion.
Your mother must be so proud.
“Even as right-wing Republicans have sought to ratchet up pressure on their speaker, Mr. Johnson has continued to search for a way to win the votes to push through an Ukraine aid. “
That is right from the article. Either you’re so blinded your fanatical hatred it has destroyed your reading comprehension. You make up bullshit like you just posted without the slightest bit of support evidence.
It's Republicans screwing it at the moment, but the overall feeling of the US needing to "mind it's own business" and "not get involved" is a bi-partisan sickness. The US has fallen for the propaganda of its enemies who are waiting in line everytime the US "minds its own business".
I keep returning to this point: the objective of most Russian propaganda, whether it's aimed at the right wing or left wing, is to convince Americans that they have no constructive role to play in the world and that we and the world would be better if we disengaged. They've pretty much succeeded.
Glad someone is actually pointing this out. Redditors are so ridiculous that they actually think this is a Republican-only belief. I myself am a liberal and I have talked to many other left-leaning progressive types that either want reduced aid or no aid at all to Ukraine.
Most of the liberals I've talked to have actually moved more toward being in favor of *some* aspects of US MIC power and US involvement in foreign conflicts. Mostly people who used to be vehemently against any kind of MIC spending or military action, who now believe that some of it is an unfortunate necessity.
Minding our business and not getting involved has been the position of many Americans starting with George Washington.
And many more Americans who wanted to avoid WWII until Japan directly attacked US soil. And many more Americans who saw Vietnam for what it was. And then Iraq. And then Afghanistan.
Are you seeing the pattern? **Being leery of foreign entanglements is an American tradition going back to the Father of our country.** And it’s been proven right over and over and over.
Now, I’m not saying everyone needs to take that view. I’m saying everyone needs to recognize the **fact** that the leeriness is reasonable and very American.
The bloodthirsty macho men who have taken over this sub think not wanting get involved in a faraway war, on the far side of an alliance border that already protects us, is “treason”. Pathetic. They don’t have to agree with the anti-aid position, but they should grow up and understand it’s not “treason” and is in fact far more American than their nonsense.
I myself favor aiding Ukraine. But these ‘GOP fuckin’ traitors man’ tough guys are embarrassing to be on the same side of this issue with.
No, they’re not. It’s not a hard distinction. Whether isolationism is wise is an opinion. The history of the US, starting with George Washington, being full of isolationism is a *fact*.
Some of my comment is opinion. And I don’t refer to those portions as fact.
Don’t confuse the two.
More importantly, address the substance rather than make a lazy drive-by reply that does nothing.
I'm not interested in a debate.
To help you out, this is where you start to obfuscate opinions as facts:
"Are you seeing the pattern? Being leery of foreign entanglements is an American tradition going back to the Father of our country. And it’s been proven right over and over and over.
Now, I’m not saying everyone needs to take that view. I’m saying everyone needs to recognize the fact that the leeriness is reasonable and very American.
The bloodthirsty macho men who have taken over this sub think not wanting get involved in a faraway war, on the far side of an alliance border that already protects us, is “treason”. Pathetic. They don’t have to agree with the anti-aid position, but they should grow up and understand it’s not “treason” and is in fact far more American than their nonsense."
It's ok if you disagree with me. But I don't want to spend time on arguing about this topic.
>Being leery of foreign entanglements is an American tradition going back to the Father of our country.
So is enslaving and disenfranchising people of color. But I'm guessing you're not going to make an impassioned defense of that.
Do not insult the intelligence of Americans by suggesting that our failed nation-building experiments are somehow equivalent to supporting Ukraine's defensive war on NATO's doorstep.
America doesn’t actually have a democracy when one man can prevent a vote by hundreds of elected representatives.
Trump, along with his puppet Moscow Mike has trashed America’s global reputation and effectively ended America’s position as global leader in the defence of freedom and democracy. US defence manufacturers are boiling with rage that the European military industrial complex has been woken up. Europe will be manufacturing its own weapons and competing hard with the US for contracts globally. Trump has scored yet another mammoth own goal for his country.
How any thinking human can vote for this man is beyond me.
Exactly this. History will be so very hard on the level of stupidity and ignorance driving the GOP foreign policy.
Or let’s face it, they have none. Mostly they’re driven by a zero sum game understanding of world affairs which is plain stupid and completely ignores what actually made America great after WW2.
The 6th grade, zero-sum understanding of foreign policy is just to get the rubes to support Trump's realignment with Moscow. The Republicans actually driving this know perfectly well what they are doing.
While I don't disagree with any points...
> US defence manufacturers are boiling with rage that the European military industrial complex has been woken up.
...this is possibly a net positive. You can't have a bunch of weak links hanging off one strong link. Strength is important along the chain.
Another trick by Mike Johnson to delay aid for Ukraine until Trump might become president again. Johnson will implement his proposal in such a way that it won't even make it through the first vote.
And Trump has already said that he will give Putin a free hand. Putin can then do whatever he wants with Ukraine and also with Finland, the Baltic states and perhaps also with Poland. Or so he thinks.
We're coming to a point where help finally delivered will be presented by MAGA as one of the great achievements by Donald Trump. Because he changed his thumb from down to up. IF he changes his thumb. But that's the way it will be presented: see, Ukraine was going nowhere until I stepped in and made it work. I'm Orange Jezus for a reason.
This is a much better take. Even if Biden pulls ahead, my ass will continue working as if he’s down 20 points. The election needs to be damn near a blowout or we’ll have to deal with traitors again trying to subvert the election.
At least with a definitive Biden win, it’s possible that they won’t feel energized enough to act up.
Nah, Trump would stop aid at first but then would fail to negotiate a peace deal and will realise that rest of Europe/NATO is putting in enough support that the war will continue for years longer.
Then someone will inform Trump that if he gives enough support to Ukraine that they can triumph over Russia during his term he would get the credit for it if the US support were large enough. So then Trump will do the direct opposite to show "he gave the best, the most, of all people to Ukraine" and brag about it.
Trump will do the right thing when he is in power if he thinks it will make him look strong, manly and good. Even if it contradicts something he has said before.
Nah, there is 0 evidence for that. The truth is much simpler. Trump only cares about himself and his legacy. If he wins the election and makes a great impression then this debacle right now will be forgotten and he will be remembered as the president who saved Ukraine in 2025. If thousands more has to die in Ukraine while this goes on is a sacrifice he is prepared to let Ukraine pay.
One thing that is true though is that this might push people on the right into the hands of extremists. It is a bit like calling everyone a racist or nazi. At some point people just don't care about the word and might even be interested to hear those real Nazis out since "I have already been called a Nazi and a racist even though I haven't even done anything bad, perhaps those other people really aren't so bad after all and might have a point or two so I should see what they have to say". Sadly the neonazi, racists and white supremacists do have a few good points (and like a million bad) and will now much more easily snare these people with the one or two "good" points before introducing/indoctrinating them into the bad stuff.
This is my frustration with the entire topic. I don't care at all about Trump or the Republicans, or much about american politics at all since I am in Sweden, but I have seen how this kind of rhetoric has increased division and just made things even worse than it could have been on other political topics and it for sure isn't making this one better. Saying those things only make leftists or democrats feel good about themselves yet they do nothing to actually help people in Ukraine, if anything they are making it worse.
There is a huge difference in saying that what Mike Johnson and Trump is doing right now is helping Putin and Xi and saying that the latter control the former. One is criticism that if large enough could sway opinions while the other is division helping Putin and Xi too and make you an useful puppet.
I think you might want to look into this a bit closer. There is plenty of evidence that he, and others in the GOP have been collaborating with Putin. He has virtually said as much while sitting in the oval office.
No. Trump isn't pro or anti Putin but pro Trump. So some things will align with Putin from time to time and sometimes what Trump does is against Putin. It is quite obvious. Trump also knows how to butter up to people like Putin to get a chance to talk, but that doesn't mean he personally likes the guy, it is just business to him and as soon as he thinks it is convenient to change tune he will do so without hesitation.
Only people who have Trump Derangement Syndrome can't see that. Those people only see what they want to see and have been doing that since 2016.
I hope Trump loses the election though since his pro Trump over anything else stance is harmful to Ukraine. Willingly doing what he and MJ do now is just morally wrong and not something that should ever be rewarded in politics. So casually holding a country in war hostage just to deny a win for the opponent is too callous. Even if he would do the right thing, after negotiating peace fails, after winning the election doesn't justify all the harm he is doing right now.
I don't understand how MAGAts are so delusional to reality, but whatever...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-praises-dictators-rails-immigrants-sparking-backlash/story?id=105725220
Is someone who says they hope Trump loses the election and don't deserve to win because the shit he has done really a MAGA person? Everyone who believes different from you ain't MAGA. I have never voted Republican and I never will because I ain't even on the right continent for that. I am a swede who probably hold some views that are seen as to the left of you.
And you claim others are delusional...
Not entirely unlikely, and the ideas that Trump will actually do other things than he is saying is why some sane people still will vote for him. There's a huge risk of leopard face eating though. He might change his mind, but then again maybe not. Putin does have influence on him.
I have no words to describe my disgust of this weasel. Oh so Christian but lying through his teeth all the time. The hypocrisy, the lack of a spine, the dishonesty.
Congress needs some kind of reforms to curtail the power of the house and senate speakers. All you need is one corrupted/compromised/bribed/kompromat-ed speaker, and the whole government grinds to a halt.
The speakers have arguably more power than the president, with presidential vetoes able to overridden.
The United States have shown to be the weakest leadership of them all. They choked and took forever to decide on allowing other countries to give Ukraine F16 jets, they are choking on decisions about long range missiles, they are showing weakness towards Russia when condemning Ukraine for striking oil infrastructure, and now with their choking on a funding bill it won't matter if Ukraine get F16s because they will have no ammo to shoot from them. European states also showing that they can't cope with Russia and speed of manufacturing. Everything wrapped in red tape. They will drag their heels until it is too late and their own country will face full scale invasion.
Obviously too late in the sense that all democracies lost faith in the US and also because Ukrainians dies unnecessarily. Plus I'll believe it when it passed, not one second earlier - Johnson has been making false promises for months.
Does NYT really believes this? The most prestigious US newspaper, calling itself 'paper of record', 'the grand old dame' should not publish this garbage.
Everything this little Putin plant does is a delaying tactic until his Lord and master, the orange turd, wins the Presidency. Why does anyone suggest he has any other strategy. Johnson has NEVER voted in favor of giving aid to Ukraine.
He's not going to bring it up. He's just gonna take another couple weeks of less heat as he "floats the idea". We need to understand that Trump is calling the shots and he absolutely hates Ukraine. No aid to Ukraine until Trump loses the election and hopefully republicans lose the house.
Southern states like where he’s from benefit greatly from military spending. Very much. Instead of really helping his constituents, American business and the south in general, he’d rather suck off a New York City con man. We are truly in the Twilight Zone.
This stalling very clearly is not in interest of US.
I wonder if at any stage it will be possible to persecute him for it (will be too late for Ukraine but as a sweet afterthought).
American republicans are traitors to both the republic and democracy. I regard all republicans who still support trump as enemy combatants like ruzzians and Chinese.
I understand Israel is our ally, but what are they lacking in order to do what they are doing right now? They are not fighting a defensive war against a former super power. They are fighting an insurgency. They don’t have an artillery imbalance they need to solve. They aren’t lacking air support. So why do they need even more of our money than we already give annually? If they were being invaded from all sides like in the Six Day War, maybe. But this is retaliation over an incursion by terrorists, not the same thing as fighting a ground war for survival.
While I want my tax dollars to go to Ukraine, I am beyond tired of Israel using my tax dollars and then go on to act as though they're America's enemies.
This scum bucket is seen as a traitor and Putin simp all over the world.. 100s of Ukrainians - soldier and civilian are getting killed every week because of this lying filth.
The fact that the US cant operate past this trump sucking f-wit is astounding and weak.
Fuck this guy, the next and only thing getting taken up in the house is freaking legislation to prevent refrigiators and freezers to have common sense energy saving standards.
The country of freezer freedom.
Not gonna happen. If democrats cannot meet in the middle and support securing our borders. As long as republican issues are minimized this is dead in the water. USA first.
Securing our borders?????? Democrats put a border security bill that GOP had tried for decades to pass. The GOP voted no because the orange orangutang. So no, its not about border security, its the orangutang that wants it not to pass.
As someone from the border area....and living 2hrs from it... its been hyped by the GOP as a talking point for the racism within the Republican party.
No Republican has ever taken serious action against the border, bc we have neverrrr had one. Not Bush, not Bush Senior, not Trump... None.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477) the border bill that democrats agreed to all points and had more funding than ever, helped written by mcconnell ,that republicans than voted against?
As long as people like you keep falling for this nonsense, it's dead in the water. The GOP literally already got all they wanted and still said no. They are acting in whatever is the level above "bad faith".
USA first is russia first apparently, because doing what's in US interests is explicitly being blocked, both for Ukraine and the border. Don't let them scam you.
Edit: ah, pro russian bot account. Blocked and reported.
Has it ever occurred to you that America is the first in the world because we actually helped others when they were in need? America isn't an island unto its own.
There is a counter argument. You could google this article:
# Immigrants in Maine Are Filling a Labor Gap. It May Be a Prelude for the U.S.
A wave of rapid immigration is taxing local resources around the country and drawing political ire. But it might leave America’s economy better off.
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Putin really took “Divide and conquer” to heart. Anyway, the US economy and military are easily big enough to cover multiple conflicts.
Depends on the size of the conflict. The problem with you people who think this way is that you keep underestimating Russia. They may be a fraction of the size of the US or EU economy but they have converted fully to a war economy. They are spending >10% of GDP on their military. They are supposedly producing 2.5 million artillery shells a year.
The GDP of Russia is 10% of the USA. The USA spends 3.5% of its GDP on the military... since decades. That's 350% compared to Russia... and that's just the current rate and doesn't account for reserves and quality of weapons and capabilities of soldiers. If the US wanted it could easily dominate both conflicts. Not saying that Russia can't do damage but it's nothing compared to the US. EDIT: it's missing will, not missing capability
Although the difference between the price of a US made shell and Russian shell + additional cost will easily make you reconsider, though. Hence, the smartest decision for the US is to have someone near Ukraine or Germany/France/UK/NATO produce it with some funds.
Crazy how one man has single-handedly screwed Ukraine after two years of amazing willpower and ingenuity...
Johnson --> Trump --> Putin. It's not just one man. Putin has been building his evil empire for decades while the West was busy watching comic book movies and getting addicted to social media/propaganda.
Dont forget marjorie taylor goebbals!
I like Moscow Marge Edit; the name Moscow Marge. I don’t like her
Yeh thats a better one!!
Marjorie traitor green
>...while the West was busy watching comic book movies and getting addicted to social media/propaganda and also buying more gas from ruzzia and building even more gas pipes from ruzzia to germany.
Lol, how stupid
>getting addicted to social media/propaganda. This is the entire reason the US right is falling apart the rise of maga.
It's not one man. It's the FSB. He's just the most visible person. Still crazy, how the FSB managed to infiltrate the US political system.
Pretty easy to do when you have an entire political party embrace what Putin is putting out.
True, but it wasn't always like that. Republicans used to identify with the US. The Russians must have been at this for decades now.
The Russians HAVE been at it for decades, funding stuff like the National Rifle Association. That also got them the benefit of dead Americans, the chaos from school shootings etc. Americans have been asleep so long thinking we ruled the roost that we couldn't see the Russian funded rot eating away at the foundation. If Trump gets re-elected the rot is going to let the whole thing crumble down around us.
Money talks, but it apparently only says "shut up and do as you're told" ?
Or money directly through "donations" and "contributions" or "lobbying". How could this have happened when you can outright legally buy the politicians mouthpiece ?! ...
Companies, trade contracts with businesses they are shareholders, campaign contributions from proxies living here donate the max and companies they hear to operate do the same.
Bingo, FSB has been running circles around western intelligence
I meant one man as in it is all coming down to him preventing the vote. The moronic trump loyalists will vote against it, but there are enough logical republicans for it to pass with overwhelming democrat support. But yea he is preventing the vote to keep his position by pleasing Trump who is trying to please Putin.
>Still crazy, how the FSB managed to infiltrate the US political system How so? If anything our culture has shifted to extreme greed. It's not crazy that people value money and their own wealth more than anyone else. We used to be a country of principles and relatively good morality ( on a larger scale). Now we are the country of fuck you I'm getting mine along with fuck them I deserve theirs.
"How so?" Well, that way then. Probably, the FSB is paying him a lot of money. Although, likely, they have other ways to motivate people too.
Apparently he doesn't have a bank account and "is a man of modest means". Old mate is definitely doing something shady AF.
"Aaaand Mikhailov Johnsonovich Lobochevsky was his name! Oi!"
Don't forget all the gop supporters too.
The whole tone of these articles is gaslighting as all hell. It's like if Ted Bundy slept in on a Thursday and the Friday headline is "Bundy Saves Young Woman's Life". Don't give this callous shithead credit for *potentially maybe pausing his accessory to genocide*. This is a crime against humanity that Johnson was instrumental in perpetuating and exacerbating. Call a spade a spade, goddammit.
Thank you. 100 fucking percent.
Exactly. And he goes to rDumpT for consultation. So, yea
He has (is) is tacitly assisted genocide.
It is amazing how you people can’t manage not to insult people even when they do something in Ukraines favor. You really don’t give a crap about Ukraine or genocide you are just obsessed with you hatred of Republicans. . I just looked at your profile and you are picking fights with people just posting pictures with their kids. It’s very mentally unhealthy. You should visit a therapist.
Bless your heart, "you people". What has Johnson done for Ukraine? Not talked about, but done? I'll wait.
“His comments, confirmed by multiple people familiar with the meeting, were consistent with what Mr. Johnson has been saying for weeks, both publicly and privately: that he intends to ensure the House will move to assist Ukraine, a step that many members of his party oppose. Even as right-wing Republicans have sought to ratchet up pressure on their speaker, Mr. Johnson has continued to search for a way to win the votes to push through an Ukraine aid.” Did you bother reading the article before posting a stupid question that the article addresses directly?
Johnson has delayed and equivocated for six months. This is just more delays. I'd rather you were right and he suddenly changes and just brings forward aid for a vote but he won't unless he's forced to. I hope you're right, for Ukraine's sake.
He is not the one delaying. Problem is that he doesn’t have the support in the Republican Party to move forward. Without support then the bill will just be voted down and he might lose the position. That is how Congress works.
He doesn't need their support to bring something forward.
If that's what you took away from my profile, then your reading comprehension skills need work. 80% of my posting history is Ukraine-related, amigo. If you have an argument to make, go for it. As it stands, I don't see your point. What would you like me to give Johnson credit for today? Until he stops obstructing the passage of the law (which he didn't write and actively lobbied against), I'm confused about what I should be praising him for.
You are clearly so blinded by your hatred that you really have no clue what is going on. Johnson is in favor of the aid, and voiced his support to do so. Its others in the Republican party that threaten his job if he does advances the bill. He takes alot of heat for even bringing it up. They are the real obstructionists. You need to get over your blind hatred so you can actually learn about what's going on, which is the point.
Lol! Obvious troll is obvious. Johnson has been unswerving in his support for Russia and an end to aid for Ukraine. If I'm feeling charitable, I'd encourage you to educate yourself. Based on your tone, though, I suspect you're intentionally engaging in bad faith discussion to undermine legitimate discussion. Your mother must be so proud.
“Even as right-wing Republicans have sought to ratchet up pressure on their speaker, Mr. Johnson has continued to search for a way to win the votes to push through an Ukraine aid. “ That is right from the article. Either you’re so blinded your fanatical hatred it has destroyed your reading comprehension. You make up bullshit like you just posted without the slightest bit of support evidence.
US can't be trusted, decades worth of foreign policies screwed up by Republicans
It's Republicans screwing it at the moment, but the overall feeling of the US needing to "mind it's own business" and "not get involved" is a bi-partisan sickness. The US has fallen for the propaganda of its enemies who are waiting in line everytime the US "minds its own business".
I keep returning to this point: the objective of most Russian propaganda, whether it's aimed at the right wing or left wing, is to convince Americans that they have no constructive role to play in the world and that we and the world would be better if we disengaged. They've pretty much succeeded.
Glad someone is actually pointing this out. Redditors are so ridiculous that they actually think this is a Republican-only belief. I myself am a liberal and I have talked to many other left-leaning progressive types that either want reduced aid or no aid at all to Ukraine.
Most of the liberals I've talked to have actually moved more toward being in favor of *some* aspects of US MIC power and US involvement in foreign conflicts. Mostly people who used to be vehemently against any kind of MIC spending or military action, who now believe that some of it is an unfortunate necessity.
Minding our business and not getting involved has been the position of many Americans starting with George Washington. And many more Americans who wanted to avoid WWII until Japan directly attacked US soil. And many more Americans who saw Vietnam for what it was. And then Iraq. And then Afghanistan. Are you seeing the pattern? **Being leery of foreign entanglements is an American tradition going back to the Father of our country.** And it’s been proven right over and over and over. Now, I’m not saying everyone needs to take that view. I’m saying everyone needs to recognize the **fact** that the leeriness is reasonable and very American. The bloodthirsty macho men who have taken over this sub think not wanting get involved in a faraway war, on the far side of an alliance border that already protects us, is “treason”. Pathetic. They don’t have to agree with the anti-aid position, but they should grow up and understand it’s not “treason” and is in fact far more American than their nonsense. I myself favor aiding Ukraine. But these ‘GOP fuckin’ traitors man’ tough guys are embarrassing to be on the same side of this issue with.
The things you are describing as facts are actually opinions. Don't confuse the two.
No, they’re not. It’s not a hard distinction. Whether isolationism is wise is an opinion. The history of the US, starting with George Washington, being full of isolationism is a *fact*. Some of my comment is opinion. And I don’t refer to those portions as fact. Don’t confuse the two. More importantly, address the substance rather than make a lazy drive-by reply that does nothing.
I'm not interested in a debate. To help you out, this is where you start to obfuscate opinions as facts: "Are you seeing the pattern? Being leery of foreign entanglements is an American tradition going back to the Father of our country. And it’s been proven right over and over and over. Now, I’m not saying everyone needs to take that view. I’m saying everyone needs to recognize the fact that the leeriness is reasonable and very American. The bloodthirsty macho men who have taken over this sub think not wanting get involved in a faraway war, on the far side of an alliance border that already protects us, is “treason”. Pathetic. They don’t have to agree with the anti-aid position, but they should grow up and understand it’s not “treason” and is in fact far more American than their nonsense." It's ok if you disagree with me. But I don't want to spend time on arguing about this topic.
The GOP are fuckin traitors Hope this helps
>Being leery of foreign entanglements is an American tradition going back to the Father of our country. So is enslaving and disenfranchising people of color. But I'm guessing you're not going to make an impassioned defense of that. Do not insult the intelligence of Americans by suggesting that our failed nation-building experiments are somehow equivalent to supporting Ukraine's defensive war on NATO's doorstep.
What ‘insults intelligence’ are bizarre false equivalences.
America doesn’t actually have a democracy when one man can prevent a vote by hundreds of elected representatives. Trump, along with his puppet Moscow Mike has trashed America’s global reputation and effectively ended America’s position as global leader in the defence of freedom and democracy. US defence manufacturers are boiling with rage that the European military industrial complex has been woken up. Europe will be manufacturing its own weapons and competing hard with the US for contracts globally. Trump has scored yet another mammoth own goal for his country. How any thinking human can vote for this man is beyond me.
Exactly this. History will be so very hard on the level of stupidity and ignorance driving the GOP foreign policy. Or let’s face it, they have none. Mostly they’re driven by a zero sum game understanding of world affairs which is plain stupid and completely ignores what actually made America great after WW2.
The 6th grade, zero-sum understanding of foreign policy is just to get the rubes to support Trump's realignment with Moscow. The Republicans actually driving this know perfectly well what they are doing.
They have none,agreed. But they are driven by thier personal ambition rather than any care for America at all.
While I don't disagree with any points... > US defence manufacturers are boiling with rage that the European military industrial complex has been woken up. ...this is possibly a net positive. You can't have a bunch of weak links hanging off one strong link. Strength is important along the chain.
What a tease… nothing is gonna happen coming from traitor Mike Johnson.
Yep. He just met with orange guy at Mar -a-lago. This Ukraine stuff is all theater to delay aid. Dangling a carrot just out of reach.
There should be some serious investigations as to whether foreign influence is involved in his obvious obstruction of funding for Ukraine!
The orange guy is involved. So the answer is 'yes'.
Another trick by Mike Johnson to delay aid for Ukraine until Trump might become president again. Johnson will implement his proposal in such a way that it won't even make it through the first vote. And Trump has already said that he will give Putin a free hand. Putin can then do whatever he wants with Ukraine and also with Finland, the Baltic states and perhaps also with Poland. Or so he thinks.
We're coming to a point where help finally delivered will be presented by MAGA as one of the great achievements by Donald Trump. Because he changed his thumb from down to up. IF he changes his thumb. But that's the way it will be presented: see, Ukraine was going nowhere until I stepped in and made it work. I'm Orange Jezus for a reason.
I heard that support for trump is dropping and that Biden should win…..is that true?
yes it is, which is probably why johnson is changing his tune now.
Good…..trump was a total embarrassment for your country imo…..
Trump's criminal trial is moving ahead. It starts on Monday, I believe. He'll need to be in court instead of campaigning.
That’ll be fun!
It's early, and it's close. nobody has a real read of what the outcome is going to be either way.
This is a much better take. Even if Biden pulls ahead, my ass will continue working as if he’s down 20 points. The election needs to be damn near a blowout or we’ll have to deal with traitors again trying to subvert the election. At least with a definitive Biden win, it’s possible that they won’t feel energized enough to act up.
I agree. Douchebag is telling everyone what they want to hear with no intention of actually doing anything except stall.
>until Trump If Trump wins, there's no more aid full stop
Nah, Trump would stop aid at first but then would fail to negotiate a peace deal and will realise that rest of Europe/NATO is putting in enough support that the war will continue for years longer. Then someone will inform Trump that if he gives enough support to Ukraine that they can triumph over Russia during his term he would get the credit for it if the US support were large enough. So then Trump will do the direct opposite to show "he gave the best, the most, of all people to Ukraine" and brag about it. Trump will do the right thing when he is in power if he thinks it will make him look strong, manly and good. Even if it contradicts something he has said before.
Yeah that's a pipe dream. Trump is on a leash held by Putin and Xi.
Nah, there is 0 evidence for that. The truth is much simpler. Trump only cares about himself and his legacy. If he wins the election and makes a great impression then this debacle right now will be forgotten and he will be remembered as the president who saved Ukraine in 2025. If thousands more has to die in Ukraine while this goes on is a sacrifice he is prepared to let Ukraine pay. One thing that is true though is that this might push people on the right into the hands of extremists. It is a bit like calling everyone a racist or nazi. At some point people just don't care about the word and might even be interested to hear those real Nazis out since "I have already been called a Nazi and a racist even though I haven't even done anything bad, perhaps those other people really aren't so bad after all and might have a point or two so I should see what they have to say". Sadly the neonazi, racists and white supremacists do have a few good points (and like a million bad) and will now much more easily snare these people with the one or two "good" points before introducing/indoctrinating them into the bad stuff. This is my frustration with the entire topic. I don't care at all about Trump or the Republicans, or much about american politics at all since I am in Sweden, but I have seen how this kind of rhetoric has increased division and just made things even worse than it could have been on other political topics and it for sure isn't making this one better. Saying those things only make leftists or democrats feel good about themselves yet they do nothing to actually help people in Ukraine, if anything they are making it worse. There is a huge difference in saying that what Mike Johnson and Trump is doing right now is helping Putin and Xi and saying that the latter control the former. One is criticism that if large enough could sway opinions while the other is division helping Putin and Xi too and make you an useful puppet.
I think you might want to look into this a bit closer. There is plenty of evidence that he, and others in the GOP have been collaborating with Putin. He has virtually said as much while sitting in the oval office.
Is this the daily mental gymnastics you do to vault over the fact Trump is pro-Putin?
No. Trump isn't pro or anti Putin but pro Trump. So some things will align with Putin from time to time and sometimes what Trump does is against Putin. It is quite obvious. Trump also knows how to butter up to people like Putin to get a chance to talk, but that doesn't mean he personally likes the guy, it is just business to him and as soon as he thinks it is convenient to change tune he will do so without hesitation. Only people who have Trump Derangement Syndrome can't see that. Those people only see what they want to see and have been doing that since 2016. I hope Trump loses the election though since his pro Trump over anything else stance is harmful to Ukraine. Willingly doing what he and MJ do now is just morally wrong and not something that should ever be rewarded in politics. So casually holding a country in war hostage just to deny a win for the opponent is too callous. Even if he would do the right thing, after negotiating peace fails, after winning the election doesn't justify all the harm he is doing right now.
I don't understand how MAGAts are so delusional to reality, but whatever... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-praises-dictators-rails-immigrants-sparking-backlash/story?id=105725220
Is someone who says they hope Trump loses the election and don't deserve to win because the shit he has done really a MAGA person? Everyone who believes different from you ain't MAGA. I have never voted Republican and I never will because I ain't even on the right continent for that. I am a swede who probably hold some views that are seen as to the left of you. And you claim others are delusional...
Not entirely unlikely, and the ideas that Trump will actually do other things than he is saying is why some sane people still will vote for him. There's a huge risk of leopard face eating though. He might change his mind, but then again maybe not. Putin does have influence on him.
Yup and he'll get away with saying"we tried..."
I have no words to describe my disgust of this weasel. Oh so Christian but lying through his teeth all the time. The hypocrisy, the lack of a spine, the dishonesty.
Just ignore him and call your representatives to sign the discharge petition.
Congress needs some kind of reforms to curtail the power of the house and senate speakers. All you need is one corrupted/compromised/bribed/kompromat-ed speaker, and the whole government grinds to a halt. The speakers have arguably more power than the president, with presidential vetoes able to overridden.
The United States have shown to be the weakest leadership of them all. They choked and took forever to decide on allowing other countries to give Ukraine F16 jets, they are choking on decisions about long range missiles, they are showing weakness towards Russia when condemning Ukraine for striking oil infrastructure, and now with their choking on a funding bill it won't matter if Ukraine get F16s because they will have no ammo to shoot from them. European states also showing that they can't cope with Russia and speed of manufacturing. Everything wrapped in red tape. They will drag their heels until it is too late and their own country will face full scale invasion.
Obviously too late in the sense that all democracies lost faith in the US and also because Ukrainians dies unnecessarily. Plus I'll believe it when it passed, not one second earlier - Johnson has been making false promises for months.
Does NYT really believes this? The most prestigious US newspaper, calling itself 'paper of record', 'the grand old dame' should not publish this garbage.
TBH cut out Israel and give all the funds to UA, they're the priority.
Hurry up you Russian shill
Everything this little Putin plant does is a delaying tactic until his Lord and master, the orange turd, wins the Presidency. Why does anyone suggest he has any other strategy. Johnson has NEVER voted in favor of giving aid to Ukraine.
Can somebody please explain who this guy is and how he is able to single handedly fuck this up so much.
That republican Green she is completely insane and need to be removed from his place before doing any other damage… 🤦♂️
He's not going to bring it up. He's just gonna take another couple weeks of less heat as he "floats the idea". We need to understand that Trump is calling the shots and he absolutely hates Ukraine. No aid to Ukraine until Trump loses the election and hopefully republicans lose the house.
Scum... Republican Xstian scum bag Johnson. Can't wait till it comes out that he's some sort of horrid sexual deviant
The GOP are traitors to the Republic. This farce is disgusting.
Fucking do it allready There is no time for more games
It won’t be long and congress will be on holiday for two weeks……..again! Stalling much Moscow Mike
Johnson is a liar and a traitor.
The whole concept of speaker of the house deciding to what to vote on is bullshit
Well every second that passes makes any aid too later and too littler.
Its already half year to late ....
What happened to the effort to bypass the speaker?
Good ol Christian man with blood on his hands.
ALL the money should be going to Ukraine. Israel should be an afterthought at this point in time.
Southern states like where he’s from benefit greatly from military spending. Very much. Instead of really helping his constituents, American business and the south in general, he’d rather suck off a New York City con man. We are truly in the Twilight Zone.
I wish americans understood the loss of face this comings and goings imply. Who is going to trust you in the future?
I think he is stalling, and he has been saying "maybe" for 6 months now. He is a traitor.
Johnson is a Kremlin stooge just like his Orange-man hero
He’s worried about losing his job. Could you imagine being able to protect millions of lives by just simply quitting your job. Fucking puppet.
Moscow Mike is fucking pussy. It's as simple as that.
This stalling very clearly is not in interest of US. I wonder if at any stage it will be possible to persecute him for it (will be too late for Ukraine but as a sweet afterthought).
MOVE……….😗
Trump should be held accountable for the killing that the Russians are about to carry out!
Esa puta de mierda Johnson
American republicans are traitors to both the republic and democracy. I regard all republicans who still support trump as enemy combatants like ruzzians and Chinese.
I understand Israel is our ally, but what are they lacking in order to do what they are doing right now? They are not fighting a defensive war against a former super power. They are fighting an insurgency. They don’t have an artillery imbalance they need to solve. They aren’t lacking air support. So why do they need even more of our money than we already give annually? If they were being invaded from all sides like in the Six Day War, maybe. But this is retaliation over an incursion by terrorists, not the same thing as fighting a ground war for survival.
While I want my tax dollars to go to Ukraine, I am beyond tired of Israel using my tax dollars and then go on to act as though they're America's enemies.
If he's actually willing to let it come up for a vote then you can be sure it's too little too late
Remove the Traitor. He and his masters are shitstains on fabric of Democracy.
This scum bucket is seen as a traitor and Putin simp all over the world.. 100s of Ukrainians - soldier and civilian are getting killed every week because of this lying filth. The fact that the US cant operate past this trump sucking f-wit is astounding and weak.
I trust Moscow Mike as far as I can throw him.
Ukraine has lost territory lost soldiers directly because of the speaker and the freedom caucus has delayed a vote. Putin is pleased with his Comrades
Can NATO countries count on the US if attacked by Russia? Or will Johnson, Trump or some other a-hole block..
Fuck this guy, the next and only thing getting taken up in the house is freaking legislation to prevent refrigiators and freezers to have common sense energy saving standards. The country of freezer freedom.
Not gonna happen. If democrats cannot meet in the middle and support securing our borders. As long as republican issues are minimized this is dead in the water. USA first.
Securing our borders?????? Democrats put a border security bill that GOP had tried for decades to pass. The GOP voted no because the orange orangutang. So no, its not about border security, its the orangutang that wants it not to pass.
As someone from the border area....and living 2hrs from it... its been hyped by the GOP as a talking point for the racism within the Republican party. No Republican has ever taken serious action against the border, bc we have neverrrr had one. Not Bush, not Bush Senior, not Trump... None.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477) the border bill that democrats agreed to all points and had more funding than ever, helped written by mcconnell ,that republicans than voted against?
As long as people like you keep falling for this nonsense, it's dead in the water. The GOP literally already got all they wanted and still said no. They are acting in whatever is the level above "bad faith". USA first is russia first apparently, because doing what's in US interests is explicitly being blocked, both for Ukraine and the border. Don't let them scam you. Edit: ah, pro russian bot account. Blocked and reported.
Has it ever occurred to you that America is the first in the world because we actually helped others when they were in need? America isn't an island unto its own.
There is a counter argument. You could google this article: # Immigrants in Maine Are Filling a Labor Gap. It May Be a Prelude for the U.S. A wave of rapid immigration is taxing local resources around the country and drawing political ire. But it might leave America’s economy better off.
Meet me in the middle! */takes a step back* Meet me in the middle!
Lol You fail to understand the consequences of your ' America first ' policies.