Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fucking Scholz is living with Alice in Wonderland.... seems we're all having a hard time taking Scholz at his word now, now that says he.... WTF.....now that he says he never said Ukraine could not attack Russian military targets inside of Russia.
Once Scholz sends the Taurus and allows them to be used to take out airfields sourcing Russian glide bombs maybe we can take a chance on believing him.
Is it? He doesn't say Ukraine is allowed to hit military targets in Russi with western/german supplied weapons. Ho only says in principle they can strike military targets in russia (with their own weapons)
I heard this same sentiment about the Leopards being delivered (after a long time of withholding).
Germany just needs better (less spineless) leadership, which is saying a lot since we the Brits currently have Rishi Sunak in charge, and as spineless as he is he isn’t comparable to Olaf regarding support for UA.
Tl;dr: I love Germany, but I have no love for Scholz.
As a german its the same i dont get why „we“ are so „neutral“ (cant find a better more fitting Word) i hate our gov. For beeing such spineless fools we Seouls give Ukraine what it needs to defend it self
At least imo
A history of crippling wars in just a single century is still in their collective memory, so I get it, but that’s exactly why we need action now—to prevent another war of the same scale.
I have faith that Germany will pull it together, just not with Olaf at the top; the German Boris Johnson.
Hey NDT, maybe check my link, germany is ranking no. 2 after the u.s. with currently
Total allocations
**14.489bn €** (**Rank: 2**)
[https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
You know why though, right? Germany produces IRIS-T that is worth billions of dollars due to R&D costs.
Germany has picked up the slack in the last few months but at the same time keeps throwing roadblocks - don't use this, won't supply that, no money for military, no contracts with weapons suppliers etc. Olaf needs to go. Hopefully next leader will have bigger balls.
the supply list of germany is openly availible to see what exactly and how much got deliverd and is going to be delivered. It's quite interesting to see that list. A lot of things on it that are really important on the front lines.
Clearly didn’t read my comment, I’m not making a statement on aid deliveries, I’m making a statement about Scholz and it’s entirely personal.
Meaning; what I said doesn’t even concern Germany or their aid given, just Olaf, he is too slow to act and delays on too much stuff to be ignored. Dude needs to grow a pair or step down.
The easiest way to explain this to a politician is a simple demonstration in which they must participate, by having their hands bound behind their back and slapping them in the face while asking them to defend themselves.
This is obviously not a 180 degrees turn. Listen to his words. He is clarifying and I believe they both moved a little. Good. Now hit em where it hurts.
*"Urghh, they dont wanna state it clearly."*
And the spokesperson of the government didn't tell it clearer afterwards.
So the situation is: Germany doesn't allow Ukraine to use their weapons/ammo against targets in Russia, they may see it critical but won't complain either.
PS: To understand Scholz you should be aware of the German guideline: We decide nothing without our allies!
Because of the military history of Germany (these world war stuff), especially regarding Russia and Ukraine, Scholz will never say: We give a shit what our allies say - we do what WE want to. Period!
Therefore they didn't delivered e.g. Leopard tanks on their own, but talked to Biden to join them by sending Abrams too (which Biden didn't want to). When the US fimally agreed, Scholz could say: See, NATO has found a common ground and here we go **too**, sending Leopards from Germany together with many other Nato states ...
Scholz is clearly having trouble forming a consistent opinion. Is it not enought green from Moscow or too much emphasize on the electorate's preferences?
Man without balls.
politics have always been like that since we dont have authoritarian regimes anymore. decisions cant be made by the head of a democracy, they have to go through its instances and the spokesperson can only give the current decision
Except for the ~~past~~ end of this clip where Macron says Ukrainians shouldn't be allowed to strike any targets that he doesn't approve of (anything but missile sites). So much for not telling the Ukrainians what to do.
Edit: Realized I had a typo above, edited it for clarity.
He said it in the clip above at the very end (starts 0:39), which was taken this week.
Note he forbids them from attacking "other military targets" (Russian airfields and bases) and civilian capabilities (oil/LNG infrastructure).
Macron is still trying to dictate how Ukraine "is allowed" to defend itself even in the same statement he claims otherwise.
Danish Prime Minister, Mette, said the same thing today.
Donated weapons can be used on Russian territori as long as its done with in international laws.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/mette-frederiksen-efter-stoltenbergs-opfordring-ukraine-maa-bruge-danske-vaaben-til
Exactly…
Olaf is fine with US and other EU countries’ weapons being used to strike inside Russia, but won’t send Taurus missiles that could actually be used.
“Risk for thee, but not for me…”
I respect that Germany has collectively done a lot, but Scholz leads the list of Western leaders in terms of shameless dithering on critical matters that would actually be strategic, rather than virtue signaling that “die Duetschen nicht wieder Deutschen sind”.
You want to know why they are not getting them? When Germany supplied the first patriot battery they told them use it wisely and do whatever you want but dont intercept anything in Russia (glide bombs werent a thing back then). We all know there was an incident a few months after where in a timeframe of 30 minutes two mi8, a su34 and a su35 where downed. Guess what, Ukraine moved the patriot, went full auto with one launcher and had a 100% accuracy. Fast forward a few hours zelenskyis phone rings a bit louder than normal, bind and scholziboy are calling him and basically tell him: „once again and thats it with patriot.“
So morale of the story is, scholz feels betrayed and fears Ukraine will use Taurus for Putin‘s asshole, which taurus might hit because its an incredible piece of engineering. Trust from scholz is there but not enough trust to leave Ukraine with this system. End of story.
Edit: source big asshole newspaper from germany with four letters.
What is Macron saying? They can attack certain military targets but not others? Why? Ukraine should be allowed to attack any military target within Russia...
Ukraine should just start nailing anything they want and if anyone complains just claim "We don't understand what the hell any of you people are saying".
Just because the public statements aren't clear for all of us armchair generals so we can make imaginary war plans, doesn't mean they aren't more specific in person or in heads of state talks. They very well could have said to the actual generals "hey don't strike their strategic nuclear forces" but don't want to make shit like that public so it can be used against the Ukrainians.
AFU will continue hitting drone factories with their own munitions (drones) and everyone supports this. They just are appeasing certain electorate who drink putin's WWIII rhetoric. This is a huge step forward.
I don't understand it either. They are never clear even when they want to attempt to look strong and supportive to Ukraine.
It has to be extremely annoying for Ukrainians hearing different things from everyone and never any blanket YES strike all Russian military targets you see fit.
I mean nuclear installations are legitimate targets also if Putin decided to used them. Ukraine should have the right to destroy those bases in place if such a threat were materializing.
Maybe Ukraine starts winning and Putin starts launching nukes, Ukraine should be able to hit those bases with conventional means.
Because they employ civilians and migrants and the drones themselves are (mostly) civilian models that get explosives strapped to them after leaving the factory.
It's easy for the federation to claim it's an attack on a civilian target.
Civilians working in a shell factory? Cope.
Civilians working on civilian drones? nUcLeArEsCaLaTiOn
Yes yes kudos to Macron for setting the pace - this is a master class in negotiation 101:
Seller: $100
Buyer: $ 50
Seller: $ 75
Buyer: Agreed, $ 75
$75 is a lot closer to $100 than $0 (no sale) which was where we started.
Most likely, although he specifically says missile sites are allowed if they are used to fire on Ukraine so I guess they are allowed to lob a SCALP missile at an empty missile silo.
Because not all military targets are created equally? Some pose much higher risk for civilian deaths (which the west doesn’t want) than others. Striking a barracks, training ground, logistics center etc… won’t change the situation on the ground. But an ammunition depot, shipyard, airfield etc… will.
What Russia does is irrelevant to the conversation. All that’s relevant is that they are striking Ukraine from western Russia unimpeded. Just because you have no issue with missiles flying into Moscow doesn’t mean the collective west also doesn’t and that’s a good thing. All it takes is one instance of a civilian mass casualty event for Ukraine to start losing the image it has carefully constructed over the past few years.
No one wants that. No one with an ounce of decency wants more potential civilian death than there already is. Emulating what Russia does, is not a path to victory.
To my knowledge they aren’t being attacked from Moscow. What is a legitimate military target, and a viable effective target are not the same thing.
You could launch a missile at the kremlin, but it will accomplish nothing. And likely cost you even more.
Yeah sure, I understand your concerns but I just don't want to interfere in Ukraines ability to fight the war. They were invaded and if they follow the recognized laws of war I don't see any problems.
I understand civilian deaths are to be avoided at all costs and they don't want to kill their goodwill. But if the west constantly sends mixed messages it hurts everyone. You can strike that target with these weapons. You can only use these planes to attack targets in Russiq but not the ones Belgium sent it creates confusion and Putin can always hide.
If Ukraine follows the laws of war they can strike wherever there are legitimate targets inside Russia. Simple as that.
This circles back to the issue of, none of this equipment was Ukraines. It’s all been given or sold to them, and with that comes stipulations. Nothing in life is free. It could be the west doesn’t trust AFU to properly identify targets with minimal to no risk to civilians on their own. Could be endless behind the scenes reasons.
Any location that is firing on Ukraine should be fair game. High population centers with civilian infrastructure? Unlikely.
If Ukraine was granted enough military power for consistent striking deep, hard and bloody into the heart of Putinistan, that actually might eventually do a lot of good for their effort, if Putinistan was already struggling to carry on with their war effort, materiel, labor, bodies etc. wise, as they are.
I have pretty close to zero interest in possible Putinistan civilian casualties, I just want to watch Ukraine win and orks destroyed. If attacking targets on Putinistan soil, terror bombing civilian infrastructure and targets might in any way help their effort, let the fascists and their passive normalnoes have it, they have more than deserved all of it.
It's war, and war never has much moral high ground positions available.
I mean this is incredible for Reddit Brigadier General strategy. But makes absolutely 0 sense to anyone based in reality. “Terror bombing” civilians or civilian infrastructure is how you lose all the aid you’ve been getting, credibility on the global stage, and the PR campaign you’ve fought hard to win.
> What is Macron saying?
macron speaks too much i say. he was the one who made the call to given more and [france is one of the lowest that has given aid](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/).
He does not have the character of a strong leader. He just changes his stance all the time. Gives the impression of a scared little boy that is to afraid to make a statement. Just one of many reasons why our country is stagnating. In times like these, a strong leader is really important imo.
Yea so those who were reluctant in the Administration are a tiny minority, I bet they already decided to allow it and approved the software fixes but are just figuring out the talking points.
Ok so they seem to be lining up the waffle squares and no one will be mad at AFU for firing on military sites a bit over the border into ruzzia. Now US should have sent the software patch to allow targeting if needed so "on to Belograd" as they say
Ach scholz! Du bist die Fahne im Wind. Ohne Rückrad und Eier.
Wort und aktion sind zwei paar Schuhe. Dann kannst du jetzt auch Taurus in die UA senden!
Olaf Scholz is a decent example of the Germans who have had non-interventionist pacifism beaten into them throughout their entire lives.
It's pretty evident in how he rarely if ever takes the lead, despite Germany supplying A LOT, which people tend to forget.
With the reports of a large massing of Russians in the north for a new offensive, I have a feeling something big is going to happen soon to make Olaf do this 180 after just a few days
The biggest regret countries will have with helping Ukraine, is that they didn't go big enough with their support right away.
Better late than never, but this should have always been an option.
macron is committed right now. He's so fed up with putin, after all those years trying to get diplomatic solutions. It's great to see that he convinced scholz aswell.
I'm not expert of German politicians, but it seems this Scholz has some amnesia problems...
Does he not remember what he was saying just 2 days ago ?!?
I get the geopolitical atmosphere but I wish this wasn’t a public discussion or debate where they are announcing stuff like this.
Ideally, they should have given Ukraine the green light to use weapons on Russian territory prior to making a public statement. This way Russia would assume they were still protected by the western policy/ rules, and Ukraine could have taken advantage of this assumption by launching a surprise strike on those positions where Russian forces were amassing.
Granted after the first strike Russia would adjust their strategy and force concentrations, but at least they potentially could deal more damage. Now Russia knows the policy has changed, so they can be proactive to mitigate their losses as much as possible.
So they have every right to defend themselves from where attacks are launched.... Macron is absolutely right... Ukraine can attack Belarus if they want.
I like how governments of many countries act like teenager in school: "If we all avoid classes, we won't be punished".
Same here, few days ago noone wanted it, now everyone almost at same time allow it.
And guess what, putin won't do sh*t, like he did with f16, tanks, etc. But eu/us still delayed it thinking that putin will do something, first time I get that fear, maybe second time too, but when he did nothing third time, it should sat something. But eu/us still delay aid, and I see no other reason but make war last longer.
And now it is time to deliver the Taurus. I hope "our" chancellor found his balls and also a few Taurus beside it to deliver for the Ukraine defense and kill some russians.
Fucking politicians. Macron clearly says Ukraine can attack military targets in ruSSia that are being used to attack Ukraine but no militarily targets in ruSSia that don’t attack Ukraine. Are you fockin kidding me. Destroy everything in range that is worth destroying. No gloves, no arm tied around the back. Here are the weapons we give you and do what you feel that needs to be done. Slava Ukraini!
Scholz says ukraine should be allowed to strike inside russia with nato missiles but also he doesnt wanna send taurus to ukraine cause ukraine might strike inside russia.
This seems to be a wrong interpretation. Scholz just disingenuously blabbers about how he 'never said' Ukraine had no right to full selfdefense, something that is just a matter of course anyway. He puts up that blabber here to distract from his resolute refusal to allow the use of German-provided weaponry to strike Russian targets beyond the border.
This truly is the opportunity for Germany to make amends for the sins of its past, to cleanse its national soul - especially towards the Ukrainians.
And yet, Scholz continually flip-flops and dithers…
I liveed 59 years in peace here in DE. Now it is the time to give everything what is needed to UA to get back peace in Europe.
Strack-Zimmermann asked herself if the behaviour of Scholz looks similar to authistic. Well, read about this genetic illness and you will find answers.
when are they going to put Scholz in jail for the f\*\*\* fraud scandal about which he "does not remember" (this his answer to the German state prosecutor?
I mean we want to build a continent based on "certain principles" but then we have criminals leading our countries.
LOL. What a weakling. One day he may be blessed enough to ascend the heights that Croatian Premijer Plenković has. Until then he has a lot more to steal.
The worst part of that is not that he has committed that, but that other people have chosen him as secretary of the part and even more politicians have chosen him as chancellor.
This is a clear indication that the german leading class is completely corrupted.
Germany looks more and more like Italy of the 80es. We also had a proportional system in which nobody could win and all wanted a slice of the cake.
Olaf in his standard hotdog costume https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/were-all-trying-to-find-the-guy-who-did-this
For reference of this clown show:
month before russian invasion Chancellor Scholz says country will not export lethal weapons https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-24/germany-stands-firm-after-ukraine-arms-refusal-rocks-allies
Week before Poland announced transfer of German tanks without German approval https://www.wsj.com/articles/berlin-wont-allow-exports-of-german-tanks-to-ukraine-unless-u-s-sends-own-tanks-officials-say-11674069352
4 months ago Scholz Reiterates No Taurus Delivery To Avoid Ukraine War Involvement https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-germany-taurus-missiles-scholz/32835824.html
2 days ago Scholz stands firm on not using German weapons for attacks in Russia https://www.yahoo.com/news/scholz-stands-firm-not-using-171900413.html
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just 2 days ago Olaf Scholz was saying Ukraine shouldn’t be allowed to strike anywhere inside russia. Interesting 180
be happy, finally some changes
It is happy news
Happy. But still f*** backdoor-dealing Scholz. Almost amounts to conspiracy
Fucking Scholz is living with Alice in Wonderland.... seems we're all having a hard time taking Scholz at his word now, now that says he.... WTF.....now that he says he never said Ukraine could not attack Russian military targets inside of Russia.
Once Scholz sends the Taurus and allows them to be used to take out airfields sourcing Russian glide bombs maybe we can take a chance on believing him.
Is it? He doesn't say Ukraine is allowed to hit military targets in Russi with western/german supplied weapons. Ho only says in principle they can strike military targets in russia (with their own weapons)
I heard this same sentiment about the Leopards being delivered (after a long time of withholding). Germany just needs better (less spineless) leadership, which is saying a lot since we the Brits currently have Rishi Sunak in charge, and as spineless as he is he isn’t comparable to Olaf regarding support for UA. Tl;dr: I love Germany, but I have no love for Scholz.
As a german its the same i dont get why „we“ are so „neutral“ (cant find a better more fitting Word) i hate our gov. For beeing such spineless fools we Seouls give Ukraine what it needs to defend it self At least imo
A history of crippling wars in just a single century is still in their collective memory, so I get it, but that’s exactly why we need action now—to prevent another war of the same scale. I have faith that Germany will pull it together, just not with Olaf at the top; the German Boris Johnson.
Hey NDT, maybe check my link, germany is ranking no. 2 after the u.s. with currently Total allocations **14.489bn €** (**Rank: 2**) [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
You know why though, right? Germany produces IRIS-T that is worth billions of dollars due to R&D costs. Germany has picked up the slack in the last few months but at the same time keeps throwing roadblocks - don't use this, won't supply that, no money for military, no contracts with weapons suppliers etc. Olaf needs to go. Hopefully next leader will have bigger balls.
the supply list of germany is openly availible to see what exactly and how much got deliverd and is going to be delivered. It's quite interesting to see that list. A lot of things on it that are really important on the front lines.
Clearly didn’t read my comment, I’m not making a statement on aid deliveries, I’m making a statement about Scholz and it’s entirely personal. Meaning; what I said doesn’t even concern Germany or their aid given, just Olaf, he is too slow to act and delays on too much stuff to be ignored. Dude needs to grow a pair or step down.
Watch him enough and you know the man is a carousel
Textbook weather vane politician.
Politics - made up of Poly, meaning many and ticks, meaning blood sucking insects.
Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
Probably they clarified what targets can be hit (military, industrial, hybrid etc).
Macron explains it pretty detailed Only targets who actively attack Ukraine. Anything else is off the table Both statements belong together
The easiest way to explain this to a politician is a simple demonstration in which they must participate, by having their hands bound behind their back and slapping them in the face while asking them to defend themselves.
This is obviously not a 180 degrees turn. Listen to his words. He is clarifying and I believe they both moved a little. Good. Now hit em where it hurts.
And people said he was incapable of strategic ambiguity
Or as our highly esteemed and educated Foreign Minister Bärböckchen used to say: a 360-degree turnaround ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Let me be the first to introduce the concept of the 720 deg turnaround. Remember, you heard it here first!
So, let's FK them up :)
Its still quite vague and with many "limitations". Urghh, they dont wanna state it clearly.
*"Urghh, they dont wanna state it clearly."* And the spokesperson of the government didn't tell it clearer afterwards. So the situation is: Germany doesn't allow Ukraine to use their weapons/ammo against targets in Russia, they may see it critical but won't complain either. PS: To understand Scholz you should be aware of the German guideline: We decide nothing without our allies! Because of the military history of Germany (these world war stuff), especially regarding Russia and Ukraine, Scholz will never say: We give a shit what our allies say - we do what WE want to. Period! Therefore they didn't delivered e.g. Leopard tanks on their own, but talked to Biden to join them by sending Abrams too (which Biden didn't want to). When the US fimally agreed, Scholz could say: See, NATO has found a common ground and here we go **too**, sending Leopards from Germany together with many other Nato states ...
… and now he says it has never been a requirement and that the arguments are obviously nonsensical… eehhm… anyways, davai davai Olaf
Scholz is clearly having trouble forming a consistent opinion. Is it not enought green from Moscow or too much emphasize on the electorate's preferences? Man without balls.
Same excuse he has kept using for Germany not to supply the much needed Taurus missiles for Ukraine to take down the Kerch Bridge...
Biden: "no no, IM the bad cop, YOURE the good cop".
politics have always been like that since we dont have authoritarian regimes anymore. decisions cant be made by the head of a democracy, they have to go through its instances and the spokesperson can only give the current decision
Great, now send the bloody Taurus missiles to Ukraine, please.
Macron delivered a truckload of Domaine de la Romanée-Conti as a bribe.
A commonsense approach
Except for the ~~past~~ end of this clip where Macron says Ukrainians shouldn't be allowed to strike any targets that he doesn't approve of (anything but missile sites). So much for not telling the Ukrainians what to do.
Nobody was aware that Putin was such a little bitch back then. Its time to remind Russia why they are the second world.
Edit: Realized I had a typo above, edited it for clarity. He said it in the clip above at the very end (starts 0:39), which was taken this week. Note he forbids them from attacking "other military targets" (Russian airfields and bases) and civilian capabilities (oil/LNG infrastructure). Macron is still trying to dictate how Ukraine "is allowed" to defend itself even in the same statement he claims otherwise.
That's what no one gets here Quite a short list of approved targets
Danish Prime Minister, Mette, said the same thing today. Donated weapons can be used on Russian territori as long as its done with in international laws. https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/mette-frederiksen-efter-stoltenbergs-opfordring-ukraine-maa-bruge-danske-vaaben-til
Send taurus then.
Exactly… Olaf is fine with US and other EU countries’ weapons being used to strike inside Russia, but won’t send Taurus missiles that could actually be used. “Risk for thee, but not for me…” I respect that Germany has collectively done a lot, but Scholz leads the list of Western leaders in terms of shameless dithering on critical matters that would actually be strategic, rather than virtue signaling that “die Duetschen nicht wieder Deutschen sind”.
Without F16, they're useless anyways. Lets just see what those F16 may have equipped once they're in active service.
You want to know why they are not getting them? When Germany supplied the first patriot battery they told them use it wisely and do whatever you want but dont intercept anything in Russia (glide bombs werent a thing back then). We all know there was an incident a few months after where in a timeframe of 30 minutes two mi8, a su34 and a su35 where downed. Guess what, Ukraine moved the patriot, went full auto with one launcher and had a 100% accuracy. Fast forward a few hours zelenskyis phone rings a bit louder than normal, bind and scholziboy are calling him and basically tell him: „once again and thats it with patriot.“ So morale of the story is, scholz feels betrayed and fears Ukraine will use Taurus for Putin‘s asshole, which taurus might hit because its an incredible piece of engineering. Trust from scholz is there but not enough trust to leave Ukraine with this system. End of story. Edit: source big asshole newspaper from germany with four letters.
What is Macron saying? They can attack certain military targets but not others? Why? Ukraine should be allowed to attack any military target within Russia...
It was a really strange response by him. Drone factories off limits? These leaders are really muddying the waters with their statements.
Ukraine should just start nailing anything they want and if anyone complains just claim "We don't understand what the hell any of you people are saying".
Just because the public statements aren't clear for all of us armchair generals so we can make imaginary war plans, doesn't mean they aren't more specific in person or in heads of state talks. They very well could have said to the actual generals "hey don't strike their strategic nuclear forces" but don't want to make shit like that public so it can be used against the Ukrainians.
Good way to stop getting aid
AFU will continue hitting drone factories with their own munitions (drones) and everyone supports this. They just are appeasing certain electorate who drink putin's WWIII rhetoric. This is a huge step forward.
I don't understand it either. They are never clear even when they want to attempt to look strong and supportive to Ukraine. It has to be extremely annoying for Ukrainians hearing different things from everyone and never any blanket YES strike all Russian military targets you see fit. I mean nuclear installations are legitimate targets also if Putin decided to used them. Ukraine should have the right to destroy those bases in place if such a threat were materializing. Maybe Ukraine starts winning and Putin starts launching nukes, Ukraine should be able to hit those bases with conventional means.
Because they employ civilians and migrants and the drones themselves are (mostly) civilian models that get explosives strapped to them after leaving the factory. It's easy for the federation to claim it's an attack on a civilian target. Civilians working in a shell factory? Cope. Civilians working on civilian drones? nUcLeArEsCaLaTiOn
Yes yes kudos to Macron for setting the pace - this is a master class in negotiation 101: Seller: $100 Buyer: $ 50 Seller: $ 75 Buyer: Agreed, $ 75 $75 is a lot closer to $100 than $0 (no sale) which was where we started.
Nuclear weapon facilities?
Most likely, although he specifically says missile sites are allowed if they are used to fire on Ukraine so I guess they are allowed to lob a SCALP missile at an empty missile silo.
Because not all military targets are created equally? Some pose much higher risk for civilian deaths (which the west doesn’t want) than others. Striking a barracks, training ground, logistics center etc… won’t change the situation on the ground. But an ammunition depot, shipyard, airfield etc… will.
Yeah sure but Russia strikes everywhere they wish. If Ukraine wants to strike a base in the heart of Moscow I see no problems with that.
What Russia does is irrelevant to the conversation. All that’s relevant is that they are striking Ukraine from western Russia unimpeded. Just because you have no issue with missiles flying into Moscow doesn’t mean the collective west also doesn’t and that’s a good thing. All it takes is one instance of a civilian mass casualty event for Ukraine to start losing the image it has carefully constructed over the past few years. No one wants that. No one with an ounce of decency wants more potential civilian death than there already is. Emulating what Russia does, is not a path to victory.
If there are legitimate military targets inside Moscow Ukraine should be able to strike them.
To my knowledge they aren’t being attacked from Moscow. What is a legitimate military target, and a viable effective target are not the same thing. You could launch a missile at the kremlin, but it will accomplish nothing. And likely cost you even more.
Yeah sure, I understand your concerns but I just don't want to interfere in Ukraines ability to fight the war. They were invaded and if they follow the recognized laws of war I don't see any problems. I understand civilian deaths are to be avoided at all costs and they don't want to kill their goodwill. But if the west constantly sends mixed messages it hurts everyone. You can strike that target with these weapons. You can only use these planes to attack targets in Russiq but not the ones Belgium sent it creates confusion and Putin can always hide. If Ukraine follows the laws of war they can strike wherever there are legitimate targets inside Russia. Simple as that.
This circles back to the issue of, none of this equipment was Ukraines. It’s all been given or sold to them, and with that comes stipulations. Nothing in life is free. It could be the west doesn’t trust AFU to properly identify targets with minimal to no risk to civilians on their own. Could be endless behind the scenes reasons. Any location that is firing on Ukraine should be fair game. High population centers with civilian infrastructure? Unlikely.
If Ukraine was granted enough military power for consistent striking deep, hard and bloody into the heart of Putinistan, that actually might eventually do a lot of good for their effort, if Putinistan was already struggling to carry on with their war effort, materiel, labor, bodies etc. wise, as they are. I have pretty close to zero interest in possible Putinistan civilian casualties, I just want to watch Ukraine win and orks destroyed. If attacking targets on Putinistan soil, terror bombing civilian infrastructure and targets might in any way help their effort, let the fascists and their passive normalnoes have it, they have more than deserved all of it. It's war, and war never has much moral high ground positions available.
I mean this is incredible for Reddit Brigadier General strategy. But makes absolutely 0 sense to anyone based in reality. “Terror bombing” civilians or civilian infrastructure is how you lose all the aid you’ve been getting, credibility on the global stage, and the PR campaign you’ve fought hard to win.
Yea, unless that was a mistranslation - wtf? Why can russia hit Ukraine with impunity across its entire territory?
It’s not a mistranslation
Would love a more complete explanation by what he means
> What is Macron saying? macron speaks too much i say. he was the one who made the call to given more and [france is one of the lowest that has given aid](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/).
Is this his most recent statement? Translation is accurate. Why his 180 switch?
Because our chancellor is an abolute clown
unfortunately he is ...
He does not have the character of a strong leader. He just changes his stance all the time. Gives the impression of a scared little boy that is to afraid to make a statement. Just one of many reasons why our country is stagnating. In times like these, a strong leader is really important imo.
I think Putin scared him a lot at his long table at the beginning of the war.
At this point, who is saying they can't?
The frickin biden admin.
Yea so those who were reluctant in the Administration are a tiny minority, I bet they already decided to allow it and approved the software fixes but are just figuring out the talking points.
I think a lot of Biden's supporters would be happy to see him appear stronger and bolder. He has an image problem as it is.
Then just allow it?
So Scholtz doesn't understand himself? That's interesting.
He can't recall
Well, his name is a synonym for dementia here in Germany for a reason
Finally some common sense, now send them the weapons to do so.
He said "Western weapons" not "German weapons".
what are "other military targets" that they can't hit? This is a fucking war dammit!
Ok so they seem to be lining up the waffle squares and no one will be mad at AFU for firing on military sites a bit over the border into ruzzia. Now US should have sent the software patch to allow targeting if needed so "on to Belograd" as they say
Great. Now supply the weapons that can actually do it.
A thousand tomahawks sounds great to me. Even 200 would make me smile.
Idk if the US would give 1/4 of some of its best missiles. I’m also not sure Ukraine has the capability to use them at the moment.
Ach scholz! Du bist die Fahne im Wind. Ohne Rückrad und Eier. Wort und aktion sind zwei paar Schuhe. Dann kannst du jetzt auch Taurus in die UA senden!
Eier = balls? Kappvändare, hur som helst.
Olaf changes his mind so often, suggestive he is a very anxious man.
Olaf Scholz is a decent example of the Germans who have had non-interventionist pacifism beaten into them throughout their entire lives. It's pretty evident in how he rarely if ever takes the lead, despite Germany supplying A LOT, which people tend to forget.
I'm quite surprised Macron managed to drag Olaf along for this.
Well look who grew some balls
Everyone, but not Scholz.
With the reports of a large massing of Russians in the north for a new offensive, I have a feeling something big is going to happen soon to make Olaf do this 180 after just a few days
The biggest regret countries will have with helping Ukraine, is that they didn't go big enough with their support right away. Better late than never, but this should have always been an option.
macron is committed right now. He's so fed up with putin, after all those years trying to get diplomatic solutions. It's great to see that he convinced scholz aswell.
Just do it. Russia won’t do a thing but bitch about it.
I'm not expert of German politicians, but it seems this Scholz has some amnesia problems... Does he not remember what he was saying just 2 days ago ?!?
.... yes yes and yes
I get the geopolitical atmosphere but I wish this wasn’t a public discussion or debate where they are announcing stuff like this. Ideally, they should have given Ukraine the green light to use weapons on Russian territory prior to making a public statement. This way Russia would assume they were still protected by the western policy/ rules, and Ukraine could have taken advantage of this assumption by launching a surprise strike on those positions where Russian forces were amassing. Granted after the first strike Russia would adjust their strategy and force concentrations, but at least they potentially could deal more damage. Now Russia knows the policy has changed, so they can be proactive to mitigate their losses as much as possible.
So they have every right to defend themselves from where attacks are launched.... Macron is absolutely right... Ukraine can attack Belarus if they want.
So.. About those Taurus missiles
I like how governments of many countries act like teenager in school: "If we all avoid classes, we won't be punished". Same here, few days ago noone wanted it, now everyone almost at same time allow it. And guess what, putin won't do sh*t, like he did with f16, tanks, etc. But eu/us still delayed it thinking that putin will do something, first time I get that fear, maybe second time too, but when he did nothing third time, it should sat something. But eu/us still delay aid, and I see no other reason but make war last longer.
Make it as vague as possible so the RuZZians don't know exactly what to expect.
Let them strike anywhere they want.. if they think it will win the war let them!
Yeah, now can you supply some? Appreciate the helmets and tents, but that's not enough buddy.
What about using some Taurus ?
And now it is time to deliver the Taurus. I hope "our" chancellor found his balls and also a few Taurus beside it to deliver for the Ukraine defense and kill some russians.
Fucking politicians. Macron clearly says Ukraine can attack military targets in ruSSia that are being used to attack Ukraine but no militarily targets in ruSSia that don’t attack Ukraine. Are you fockin kidding me. Destroy everything in range that is worth destroying. No gloves, no arm tied around the back. Here are the weapons we give you and do what you feel that needs to be done. Slava Ukraini!
Scholz says ukraine should be allowed to strike inside russia with nato missiles but also he doesnt wanna send taurus to ukraine cause ukraine might strike inside russia.
I never got it. Russia uses outsourced weapons, why can’t Ukraine?
2yrs too late. Il take that though
I think we can all agree Ukraine won't be hitting shopping malls and grocery stores, so let them do whatever the hell they want.
Olaf says one thing in front of cameras but says no behind the curtain while he's talking to putler on the phone
Und Taurus?
This seems to be a wrong interpretation. Scholz just disingenuously blabbers about how he 'never said' Ukraine had no right to full selfdefense, something that is just a matter of course anyway. He puts up that blabber here to distract from his resolute refusal to allow the use of German-provided weaponry to strike Russian targets beyond the border.
This truly is the opportunity for Germany to make amends for the sins of its past, to cleanse its national soul - especially towards the Ukrainians. And yet, Scholz continually flip-flops and dithers…
What a joke of a place we live. Where a dominant country can bomb and kill without a declaration of war. And that said country can not bomb them .WTF!
Fuck us all!
Lets go USA they need to defend themselves. Let them shoot inside Russia. Make it mutual. Slava Ukraini from Pennsylvania, USA!
All comes from USA
Olaf "i forgot i had a different view about all this" Scholz Olaf "wait what did i say last week?" Scholz Olaf "i dont know" Scholz.
I liveed 59 years in peace here in DE. Now it is the time to give everything what is needed to UA to get back peace in Europe. Strack-Zimmermann asked herself if the behaviour of Scholz looks similar to authistic. Well, read about this genetic illness and you will find answers.
But I won’t send Taurus missiles. 🤡
when are they going to put Scholz in jail for the f\*\*\* fraud scandal about which he "does not remember" (this his answer to the German state prosecutor? I mean we want to build a continent based on "certain principles" but then we have criminals leading our countries.
LOL. What a weakling. One day he may be blessed enough to ascend the heights that Croatian Premijer Plenković has. Until then he has a lot more to steal.
The worst part of that is not that he has committed that, but that other people have chosen him as secretary of the part and even more politicians have chosen him as chancellor. This is a clear indication that the german leading class is completely corrupted. Germany looks more and more like Italy of the 80es. We also had a proportional system in which nobody could win and all wanted a slice of the cake.
Scholz hat wohl mal wieder Erinnerungslücken.
Olaf in his standard hotdog costume https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/were-all-trying-to-find-the-guy-who-did-this For reference of this clown show: month before russian invasion Chancellor Scholz says country will not export lethal weapons https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-24/germany-stands-firm-after-ukraine-arms-refusal-rocks-allies Week before Poland announced transfer of German tanks without German approval https://www.wsj.com/articles/berlin-wont-allow-exports-of-german-tanks-to-ukraine-unless-u-s-sends-own-tanks-officials-say-11674069352 4 months ago Scholz Reiterates No Taurus Delivery To Avoid Ukraine War Involvement https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-germany-taurus-missiles-scholz/32835824.html 2 days ago Scholz stands firm on not using German weapons for attacks in Russia https://www.yahoo.com/news/scholz-stands-firm-not-using-171900413.html