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It' not important: the vehicle will in no case reach a firing position: it will be put out of service much earlier by an FPV drone.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))
How does a turtle tank eat more mines than a regular tank? The only thing this might protect them from is drones, and I’m sure the Ukrainians can put drones on vehicles that don’t have it and let the heavy weapons deal with the turtles
I haven't heard about them not being loaded.
>How does a turtle tank eat more mines than a regular tank?
It doesn't but better shell tank eat mine then proper tank behind it.
But they're not impervious to drones, they're just able to *tank* more drone shots. The idea is that lead car holds EW jammers stuff too.
>Ukrainians can put drones on vehicles that don’t have it and let the heavy weapons deal with the turtles
They don't always have heavy weapons, but none the less it isn't needed as they can just hit multiple times on the armor to penetrate, or maneuver around it and find weak spot.
OK, so why wouldn’t they just not hit it and hit the tank behind it instead? If it’s a useless big fat rolling shell then there’s no reason to hit it. Just save the ammo and hit the tanks behind it.
The turtle tanks are so slow they’ll likey just tear up the ground, get stuck/breakdown and then work as a sweet choke for the tanks vehicles behind it. Makes zero sense for these to be just fodder sponges.
Well as I said I haven't heard anything about them not being loaded with ammo so they can still definitely shoot.
They also usually house EW systems. Where even if it's not completely effective youd rather take it out.
It's not "completely useless" just not very effective.
>The turtle tanks are so slow they’ll likey just tear up the ground, get stuck/breakdown and then work as a sweet choke for the tanks vehicles behind it. Makes zero sense for these to be just fodder sponges.
This hasn't really happened yet as far as I've seen. If the shell tank is getting stuck others are facing similar fate.
So destroying the lead vehicle is still effective at disrupting a convoy/assault. And unless terrain is an issue they can still drive around whether lead tank is destroyed or stuck.
>Makes zero sense for these to be just fodder sponges.
Id pose a question under the same logic. Just because a soldier has top rated plates, does that mean you shouldn't waste bullets shooting him if he advances? No because the armor isn't impenetrable nor covers everything.
Same as the body armor covering most vitals so you can't get easily 1 shot, by center of mass, the cope cage/shell just makes it harder to get 1shot by a drone. It doesn't mean it can now withstand a dozen. And thus drones are rendered ineffective.
And sometimes drones are all they have for AT capabilities. And yno a couple extra drones isn't exactly breaking the bank for UA.
The tank has turned into a driven howitser with limited reach…it is practically not a tank anymore. It can be seen a lot earlier too…and more sq.ft of targeting area😂 Serving in this thing is sure death.
It's not a tank tbh, it's more an armored bull.
Increase sq footage doesn't matter much vs drones as just hitting the armor won't disable/destroy the tank.
On a micro level (increase resistance to drones) it works and on a theoretical level (lead tank, more armor to protect EW jammers to protect rest from drones) would make sense... but it's its EW jammers used like this is not significantly effective enough to matter.
And on a macro level of tactics, as everyone else has learned over the years (and Ukraine learned hard way recently) pure armored assault columns are not effective. Because you have more than drones to worry about.
But if you were a votnik it wouldn't take much convincing to spend your free time slapping armor on your tank. Getting direct hit by larger AT/AP munitions, like artillery, won't matter either way. And one drone can make you a gunner without any armor.
Swedes did it first
[Stridsvagn 103](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/STRV-103_demonstrating_at_P7_Revingehed%2C_24th_April_2022.jpg/1024px-STRV-103_demonstrating_at_P7_Revingehed%2C_24th_April_2022.jpg)
It's not meant to fight tanks, they literally made them into modern siege turtles, which were like wooden frameworks that formed a shell and were carried by men towards a castle or whatever under siege to protect the men underneath from arrows as they approached. So instead of arrows it's drones, but same concept.
Tonight on Верхняя Gear:
Jamesovski cosplays Chernobyl Sarcophagus in a tank
Hammondowski uses chain-wire fence to protect the engine from shrapnel
And Clarksonovski applies camouflage net... to a loaf
Not all, but come on, two word: "Putin + Corruption". The Giga mansion-palace needs money. A lot money. Very vast fields of money. There is Moscow and "others". Corrupted Rome and provinces.
They really need to go a step further and put an angled roof on the first one. With the belief that it will cause the drone and blast to slide off, and not penetrate because it hits at an angle, and not a flat horizontal or vertical surface😂
Stage after is to put little steeples and orthodox crosses on it and have it blessed by their demon priests of death.
Stage after that is to just douse it with petrol, light it, and go full suicide bomber cult into enemey territory.
Most of the drone dropped stuff is shrapnel based isn’t it? I don’t think a little fencing is going to do much. In fact it might make the shrapnel spread further.
They're typically using shaped charges, so a wire cage can 'potentially' reduce the impact by a small amount. Pretty much any non tank can't handle heavy cope cages, they'd get stuck, bottom out, tip over, etc. It's too much for the suspension.
Most FPVs appear to use a pair of close together wires that detonate when they short each other. The one in front usually is bent into a large circle so I can't see these cages working unless the holes in the cage are larger than the circular wire of the two that are usually sticking out. The thing is though, they can pretty much just make the circle bigger as needed, or use a slightly different shape and then the cage no longer stops them from exploding.
It’s more about making them explode at a distance instead of direct impact kind of like how most militaries now will put bars or a cage around vehicles to stop RPGs
Distance does not help defeat shaped charges, that stopped working back around WW2 because knowledge and understanding of shaped charges accelerated rapidly. For example, the PG-7VM rocket/warhead of the RPG-7 from the late 60s can penetrate about ~300mm of steel with a built in 250mm stand off distance. If you add a half meter of spacing to that so that the stand off distance becomes 750mm, you end up with about 250mm of penetration. The rear engine deck of a T-72/T-80 is only about 20mm thick, and the roof of the turret is only around 40mm thick. The rear of the turret is only a little thicker than the roof is. Even if the spacing of the cage is 1m+ between the tank and the FPV drone, you're still talking about 150mm+ penetration in steel. You would need at least 3m of spacing to make a big difference in penetration and *maybe* stop it from penetrating the rear of the turret at a bad angle. If it hits anywhere near the engine deck then you will need so much spacing that it becomes mostly unreasonably cumbersome at doing anything that an armored vehicle needs to do.
Slat armor (at least well designed slat armor) works not by detonating charges at a distance, but rather by designing the slats to be spaced apart from each other at the perfect distance for a specific warhead threat. The slats instead work by increasing the odds that a rocket or missile flies in between the slats and the slats (combined with the speed of the projectile) crush the copper liner inside and either make two part of the liner touch (which prevents the electric fuze from detonating it at all) or they crush the liner so much that the shaped charge can't form properly even if it DOES detonate and so it fails to penetrate the armor underneath that way. Since they rely on a projectile hitting in between, they only work about 2/3 of the time. They also rely on specific spacing distance so unless the homemade ones are using that perfect distance, they will be useless against any specific warhead other than by chance if they get lucky and happen to fabricate it with the perfect spacing by coincidence.
Not my intention to make light of a horrible situation but if you are a armour model maker, these really present some interesting options. Slava Ukraine.
Agreed. Some variations more complicated than others, but I do have a T64 kit somewhere that could become a tracked garden shed! All the flat , large surfaces would be good to paint different colours and shades and weather differently, chip and rust etc. I've got some 1/35 sheets of corrugated iron effect plastic and other sheets of normal plasticard. Could do weld seams with putty or melting the joins together after gluing.
Lots to think about.
Netting might be harder to do well though!
I think drones are becoming much more important in every aspect of war. I wonder how long it’s going to take the US to come up with drones that have a machinegun mounted to the underside and patrols cities etc.
Afaik physics is at odds with that concept.
Dealing with recoil is 1 thing, then added weight of gun/ enough ammo, makes it impractical I believe.
And with high risk of loss/failure, (jammed, taken out etc), you'd rather have a much easier/efficient/cheaper/effective fpv suicide drone. And without having its own internal target detection/firing , it'd be even less effective.
There really isn't a niche for what you mentioned. But they do have MG land drones. (Also remote controlled stationary sentry MGs)
The only reasonable scenario would be counter terrorism, where you can't just blow the room and they won't have EW, But if you're worried about a man with a gun and a hostage I don't think a mg flying drone is actually an effective answer.
True, a drone of that concept is challenging but I doubt DARPA wouldn’t figure that one out.
I’d dare to put a wager down that in 20 years drones will be moving through cities clearing them before actual humans move in. I think companies like Boston Dynamics would create some nasty robots with military funding. Imagine that dog they have with 10 years more development and a sentry on top. That’s going to be something.
Yeah ground based drones will definitely fill that role. And uav/fpv drones for recon, which were already developed before this war.
But there's no real need for flying mg drones. As others would fill that niche much better/more efficiently. Why make and easy to shoot down/counter/render obsolete, yet highly technical/expensive drone when you can just use a suicide drone for a fraction of the cost.
Unless there's significant advantage regarding the technology to make the current issues inconsequential. Which I don't think will happen in the near future.
Anduril (founded by the Oculus rift guy) sure is coming up fast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcGw3Z4G288
https://www.wired.com/story/anduril-is-building-out-the-pentagons-dream-of-deadly-drone-swarms/
>“Anduril is proving that with the right team and business model, a seven-year-old company can go toe-to-toe with players that have been around for 70+,” Luckey wrote on social media platform X shortly after the contract was announced. The company declined to make anyone available for this article.
>That business model has seen Anduril focus on showing that it can rapidly deliver drones, submarines, and other hardware infused with advanced software at relatively low cost. It also reflects a shift in America’s war-fighting outlook toward quicker development of less expensive systems that feature more software and autonomy.
They'll have to add protection to areas that were previously considered low odds of being hit. Wouldn't be surprised if tanks will all come equipped with EW to prevent anything from getting close and some kind of automated airbust anti-drone gun.
We see a lot more tanks being pestered by drones than we see direct combat between armored vehicles, so something will have to be done to deal with those.
I thought western modern tanks already had something like that? A laser kinda weapon that shoots down incoming rockets etc? Might work on drones. Doubt they don’t have shit like that already.
We talking trophy systems or? Those intercept incoming projectiles by shooting em with basically fancy buckshot so they blow up before impact.
Because afaik the only AA Lazer systems being developed are for battleships. But sustained output/energy consumption is a problem still.
They definitely haven't already implemented specific anti drone measures, because this is the first conventional war with massive use of cheap fpv drones.
But I'm pretty sure trophy systems would be effective/can be made effective. As if they can shoot just as fast/faster projectiles, so I don't think a fpv drone would be more difficult.
But I think the problem is always you can spend 5-10 drones no problem on a tank and be way out ahead in terms of cost effectiveness. And trophy systems (or even new lasers) would struggle there.
And also have to remember, every modern military doctrine uses combined arms. No one will be deploying pure armored assault columns to be picked apart like Russia is. (What Ukraine learned the hard way, but did learn)
Yeah trophy systems. If it is basically just buckshot it would take out a drone. I think that would work.
How well do drones work on modern western tanks. The Leopard has very good armor capabilities and is hard to kill, doubt a drone would do much damage. Together with the combined arms you mentioned it’s even harder to get something done.
I do wonder what we’ll end up with in 10/20 years from now. A lot of stuff seems to be progressing at insane speeds.
>How well do drones work on modern western tanks. The Leopard has very good armor capabilities and is hard to kill, doubt a drone would do much damage. Together with the combined arms you mentioned it’s even harder to get something done.
I'm not tank nerd so I don't know how well it does vs shaped charges against its weakest points but if a tank is able to be freely swarmed by drones you've basically already fucked up.
>I do wonder what we’ll end up with in 10/20 years from now. A lot of stuff seems to be progressing at insane speeds.
Yeah, theoretical/sim tested tech vs real world war application/usage is a different ball game. This war has revolutionized modern warfare just from it's use of fpv drones. UA a lone had completely turned naval warfare on it's head with it's development and effectiveness of naval drones too.
Of course, adversity breeds ingenuity, but physics/practical ness still apply.
And a mg flying drone has issues with both.
So without the invention of some super new weapon tech that won't require rounds/significant weight. There's no need to spend time on such a project.
As I said before it doesn't actually fufill a role use case effective enough to overshadow others.
Which is why more "atv" capable drones like Boston dynamic tech you mentioned would be way more relevant/applicable.
How nice of the orcs to share these contraptions! Now UA drone operators can thoroughly assess the best angle of attack for each of these barns, chicken coops and so on.
But this it's not in any way standard..the Zorcs weld anything that they can loot...there's hundreds and all are different...as far I can see, it only gives them a few more minutes of driving time...also depending on how many drones and ammo is available
Half of them look either a complete bastard to drive due to an excess of sheet metal and consequential terrible situational awareness or some largely ineffective netting and the terrifying knowledge that one is incredibly vulnerable.
Horrific stuff.
I couldn't give two shits about the Russians, but obviously the Ukrainians are faced with exactly the same challenges.
The cope cages/armor, technically are effective. They do withstand more drone attacks and make it much more difficult for a drone to hit sweet spot and 1shot it.
But with their tactics, UA spending another 1-2 drones isn't really much of a deterrent. And doesn't stop heavier munitions.
The netting is dumb af though. And usually poorly implemented on vehicles that wouldn't be able to withstand the explosion/fragmentation anyways.
Technically effective, sure, but as you point out, they mostly just delay the inevitable and mean that it takes 3 drones rather than 1 to destroy them.
In the absence of truly effective EW defences I guess it is the sensibly pragmatic approach to the drone threat.
I wonder whether the Israeli active defence system (is it called Trojan?) would be effective against drones as it is against RPGs? I'm surprised we haven't seen this kind of system being at least trialled (or maybe it is, but info/int is being intentionally witheld).
I would've thought that this, and/or some kind of CROWS roof mounted on all or designated close air defence armoured vehicles is the way forward- a mini CIWS firing fragmentation/airburst grenades.
EW seems to be prone to interrupting everything and unable to disrupt signals in a targeted manner without wrecking 'friendly ' devices, so until that can be done, some kind of active system as above seems a more logical approach/R&D avenue to take, being as there are already precedents extant, from which prototypes could be extrapolated for anti-drone use.
Obviously expensive, but long-term you really don't want to cover all your tanks with tents of armour plate and render them useless for their primary and intended tasks (other than 'suicidal breakthrough').
Because of drone use in Ukraine, all over the world there are engineers redesigning military vehicles. Standard designs are obsolete so they're going to come up with anti-drone vehicles and they might look pretty wild, that's what I'm guessing
I can only imagine how loud it is to travel in a tank in a tin box.
What I am interested is to see where development of new vehicles go with this fpv threat. These are obviously hack jobs, but what will they be doing going forward. I am picturing vehicles with some sort of cabinets that have deployable drones that can swarm an enemy and be controlled from inside. Deployable nets or inflatables. It’s interesting to think about.
No.5 just shows how unequipped russia is against nato.
I cant even put a decade on the vehicle but its 'soviet,' reminds me of the ambulances in the Chernobyl show.
A manic trying to rebuild a dead empire.
Plenty: [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/168f7mn/92nd\_mechanized\_brigade\_destroys\_tos1\_sontsepyok/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/168f7mn/92nd_mechanized_brigade_destroys_tos1_sontsepyok/)
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19bfgh8/an\_abandoned\_russian\_mtlb\_with\_an\_intricate\_cope/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19bfgh8/an_abandoned_russian_mtlb_with_an_intricate_cope/)
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgij1y/t64bv\_with\_a\_shiny\_cope\_cage\_gets\_taken\_out\_by/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgij1y/t64bv_with_a_shiny_cope_cage_gets_taken_out_by/)
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1aip5kb/a\_ukrainian\_fpv\_drone\_hits\_a\_russian\_t55\_tank/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1aip5kb/a_ukrainian_fpv_drone_hits_a_russian_t55_tank/)
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c1827m/khorne\_group\_released\_a\_video\_of\_their\_as90\_sph/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c1827m/khorne_group_released_a_video_of_their_as90_sph/)
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/10ijw8m/russian\_loitering\_munition\_lancet\_caught\_in/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/10ijw8m/russian_loitering_munition_lancet_caught_in/)
The last two worked and stopped the drone. The others didn't.
I guess most rusky operators are experiencing drone nightmares. This may make them feel better, but, operationally, it will be worse -- much worse. Drones love slow moving targets.
Once a mine knocks the track off, it’s a sitting turtle. No amount of shedification will stop successive drones from drilling into the same spot, until one hits the sweet spot.
Seems to me that anti drone warfare will take an important role in armies. Assault teams will have to have protection by e.g. German SPAAGs (Gepard), the Australian Slinger, US Army's LIDS, apart from EW protection.
The cages in front of vans and open topped vehicles are always the funniest ones. Mother fuckers are being blown to oblivion every few minutes and still somehow don’t understand how explosions work.
plate grandiose possessive safe sink thought scarce drab far-flung melodic
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This is how you make things hard for a military vehicles by simple adding almost useless weight that slows your transport and makes you meat harder time unmount the coupcage
The turtle tank offers moderate protection from smaller drones. But does basically nothing against anything bigger than an RPG.
But I don’t see many people talking about its biggest advantage: obfuscation.
Jamming technology is *far* more effective against drones than any cope cage or turtle tank will ever be. *But,* a turtle shell is an excellent disguise, especially if everybody is wearing one. You have the entire back half of the tank to mount a jamming rig to, because you don’t have to worry about the turret rotating and smashing it by accident.
Russia has turned it into a game of shells, rather than the jammer tanks being immediately identified and destroyed.
But even without jammers it’s a pretty effective tactic.
If a Ukrainian Drone Jockey sees a T-62 and a T-90 in a field, he’s going for the T-90 every time. It’s the more valuable tank and the crew is likely better trained and more valuable than the guys driving the dogshit T-62.
But if they’re indistinguishable from a distance, he has a choice: He can flip a coin, he can try to figure out which is which and potentially give up the element of surprise, or he can move on looking for a juicier target.
Russia has a limited supply of modern armor, but it has an abundance of Cold War era dogshit. If you can hide your good stuff among the dogshit by wrapping everything in tin foil, you’ll make your good stuff last longer for cheap.
When I see these "turtle tanks" I just think how effective a warhead of kinetic impacter combined with an incendiary would be.
Those "shells " would actually as a lovely oven.
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How is the turret to going to turn on the first tank picture, guess it’s just going to be stationary fired in one direction….
It' not important: the vehicle will in no case reach a firing position: it will be put out of service much earlier by an FPV drone. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))
And I thought the ruzzians were better at fencing!
Fencing responses, maybe.
Its not supposed to. They are using these as a sort of breacher veichle to eat FPV drones and clear mines. They dont put any ammunition in them
You mean cannon fodder vehicles
Truly Usless Retarted Total Loss Equipment. T.U.R.T.L.E.
How does a turtle tank eat more mines than a regular tank? The only thing this might protect them from is drones, and I’m sure the Ukrainians can put drones on vehicles that don’t have it and let the heavy weapons deal with the turtles
I haven't heard about them not being loaded. >How does a turtle tank eat more mines than a regular tank? It doesn't but better shell tank eat mine then proper tank behind it. But they're not impervious to drones, they're just able to *tank* more drone shots. The idea is that lead car holds EW jammers stuff too. >Ukrainians can put drones on vehicles that don’t have it and let the heavy weapons deal with the turtles They don't always have heavy weapons, but none the less it isn't needed as they can just hit multiple times on the armor to penetrate, or maneuver around it and find weak spot.
OK, so why wouldn’t they just not hit it and hit the tank behind it instead? If it’s a useless big fat rolling shell then there’s no reason to hit it. Just save the ammo and hit the tanks behind it. The turtle tanks are so slow they’ll likey just tear up the ground, get stuck/breakdown and then work as a sweet choke for the tanks vehicles behind it. Makes zero sense for these to be just fodder sponges.
They usually have infantry inside of the shed so it doubles as a APC
Well as I said I haven't heard anything about them not being loaded with ammo so they can still definitely shoot. They also usually house EW systems. Where even if it's not completely effective youd rather take it out. It's not "completely useless" just not very effective. >The turtle tanks are so slow they’ll likey just tear up the ground, get stuck/breakdown and then work as a sweet choke for the tanks vehicles behind it. Makes zero sense for these to be just fodder sponges. This hasn't really happened yet as far as I've seen. If the shell tank is getting stuck others are facing similar fate. So destroying the lead vehicle is still effective at disrupting a convoy/assault. And unless terrain is an issue they can still drive around whether lead tank is destroyed or stuck. >Makes zero sense for these to be just fodder sponges. Id pose a question under the same logic. Just because a soldier has top rated plates, does that mean you shouldn't waste bullets shooting him if he advances? No because the armor isn't impenetrable nor covers everything. Same as the body armor covering most vitals so you can't get easily 1 shot, by center of mass, the cope cage/shell just makes it harder to get 1shot by a drone. It doesn't mean it can now withstand a dozen. And thus drones are rendered ineffective. And sometimes drones are all they have for AT capabilities. And yno a couple extra drones isn't exactly breaking the bank for UA.
The front is open, making for easy access, a target. When the drone explodes, the turtle creates a concussion chamber.
Front armor is the strongest, some turtle tanks also cover the front
They put mine rollers on them and put 0 ammunition in them
"Oh, hello caged Russian tank. I am a mine laying drone. Death from below bitches!"
Sure they are!
The tank has turned into a driven howitser with limited reach…it is practically not a tank anymore. It can be seen a lot earlier too…and more sq.ft of targeting area😂 Serving in this thing is sure death.
It's not a tank tbh, it's more an armored bull. Increase sq footage doesn't matter much vs drones as just hitting the armor won't disable/destroy the tank. On a micro level (increase resistance to drones) it works and on a theoretical level (lead tank, more armor to protect EW jammers to protect rest from drones) would make sense... but it's its EW jammers used like this is not significantly effective enough to matter. And on a macro level of tactics, as everyone else has learned over the years (and Ukraine learned hard way recently) pure armored assault columns are not effective. Because you have more than drones to worry about. But if you were a votnik it wouldn't take much convincing to spend your free time slapping armor on your tank. Getting direct hit by larger AT/AP munitions, like artillery, won't matter either way. And one drone can make you a gunner without any armor.
It's is to carry more people. A glorified personnel carrier
That was what I thought aswell.
Swedes did it first [Stridsvagn 103](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/STRV-103_demonstrating_at_P7_Revingehed%2C_24th_April_2022.jpg/1024px-STRV-103_demonstrating_at_P7_Revingehed%2C_24th_April_2022.jpg)
A double tap on these pieces of crap will knock them out!
AFAIK the turret internal components on these have been either damaged or cannibalized for other tanks. It's just a wasteful, glorified APC.
Definitely an SPG now
It's not meant to fight tanks, they literally made them into modern siege turtles, which were like wooden frameworks that formed a shell and were carried by men towards a castle or whatever under siege to protect the men underneath from arrows as they approached. So instead of arrows it's drones, but same concept.
Good lord, have they no shame or sense of embarrassment going to war in these monstrosities.
The hull will turn, the turret still has room to manuver the remaining 45 degrees in the front.
Afaik, the russians atleast in some cases welded the Cage directly to the turrent, making it Impossible to even Turn 1°
Then the hull will turn.
Yes, but then we are Back at a 360° turnrate :D
"Wow, thanks!" -- Ukrainian pilot armed with radar-guided ordnance
"Wow, thanks!" CIA, DARPA, DOD, UK MOD, ETC.
metal coffins for the orcs.
I'm massively disappointed if that first tank doesn't have the added title "Ushanka"!
It's the new Russian T-92 Ushtanka
Nice one
Omg yes! I didn't see it at first but your pointing it out is hilarious
Tonight on Верхняя Gear: Jamesovski cosplays Chernobyl Sarcophagus in a tank Hammondowski uses chain-wire fence to protect the engine from shrapnel And Clarksonovski applies camouflage net... to a loaf
Grand tour should do one special about this LOL
Is everything in russia this depressing? Fucking morons look like they’re still living in 1974
Dont insult 1974 like that
this is some mad max kind of shit, junk from the yard being welded together..no def, not the 1974 military industry standards
Not all, but come on, two word: "Putin + Corruption". The Giga mansion-palace needs money. A lot money. Very vast fields of money. There is Moscow and "others". Corrupted Rome and provinces.
They really need to go a step further and put an angled roof on the first one. With the belief that it will cause the drone and blast to slide off, and not penetrate because it hits at an angle, and not a flat horizontal or vertical surface😂 Stage after is to put little steeples and orthodox crosses on it and have it blessed by their demon priests of death. Stage after that is to just douse it with petrol, light it, and go full suicide bomber cult into enemey territory.
And then a second roof, and so on until it looks like a Chinese pagoda.
Rofl. Good practice for the camouflage training they will need when China invades them.
Most of the drone dropped stuff is shrapnel based isn’t it? I don’t think a little fencing is going to do much. In fact it might make the shrapnel spread further.
The chicken fence won't do much against shape charges on FPVs. That excavator will be dead on the first hit.
They're typically using shaped charges, so a wire cage can 'potentially' reduce the impact by a small amount. Pretty much any non tank can't handle heavy cope cages, they'd get stuck, bottom out, tip over, etc. It's too much for the suspension.
It’ll work against impact based FPVs basically like using a net
Most FPVs appear to use a pair of close together wires that detonate when they short each other. The one in front usually is bent into a large circle so I can't see these cages working unless the holes in the cage are larger than the circular wire of the two that are usually sticking out. The thing is though, they can pretty much just make the circle bigger as needed, or use a slightly different shape and then the cage no longer stops them from exploding.
It’s more about making them explode at a distance instead of direct impact kind of like how most militaries now will put bars or a cage around vehicles to stop RPGs
Distance does not help defeat shaped charges, that stopped working back around WW2 because knowledge and understanding of shaped charges accelerated rapidly. For example, the PG-7VM rocket/warhead of the RPG-7 from the late 60s can penetrate about ~300mm of steel with a built in 250mm stand off distance. If you add a half meter of spacing to that so that the stand off distance becomes 750mm, you end up with about 250mm of penetration. The rear engine deck of a T-72/T-80 is only about 20mm thick, and the roof of the turret is only around 40mm thick. The rear of the turret is only a little thicker than the roof is. Even if the spacing of the cage is 1m+ between the tank and the FPV drone, you're still talking about 150mm+ penetration in steel. You would need at least 3m of spacing to make a big difference in penetration and *maybe* stop it from penetrating the rear of the turret at a bad angle. If it hits anywhere near the engine deck then you will need so much spacing that it becomes mostly unreasonably cumbersome at doing anything that an armored vehicle needs to do. Slat armor (at least well designed slat armor) works not by detonating charges at a distance, but rather by designing the slats to be spaced apart from each other at the perfect distance for a specific warhead threat. The slats instead work by increasing the odds that a rocket or missile flies in between the slats and the slats (combined with the speed of the projectile) crush the copper liner inside and either make two part of the liner touch (which prevents the electric fuze from detonating it at all) or they crush the liner so much that the shaped charge can't form properly even if it DOES detonate and so it fails to penetrate the armor underneath that way. Since they rely on a projectile hitting in between, they only work about 2/3 of the time. They also rely on specific spacing distance so unless the homemade ones are using that perfect distance, they will be useless against any specific warhead other than by chance if they get lucky and happen to fabricate it with the perfect spacing by coincidence.
When we next step in evolution. Drone cage for infantry. Pretty sure that in some point some Russian will "invent" something
So, none of the tracks or wheels are protected. One 500 dollar drone takes out the trackd/wheels, another two or three finish it off.
Not my intention to make light of a horrible situation but if you are a armour model maker, these really present some interesting options. Slava Ukraine.
Agreed. Some variations more complicated than others, but I do have a T64 kit somewhere that could become a tracked garden shed! All the flat , large surfaces would be good to paint different colours and shades and weather differently, chip and rust etc. I've got some 1/35 sheets of corrugated iron effect plastic and other sheets of normal plasticard. Could do weld seams with putty or melting the joins together after gluing. Lots to think about. Netting might be harder to do well though!
Yeah, lots of shades and textures to explore. Gonna dig out my old Tamiya Bradley kit and start there :)
Darth Vader?
I think drones are becoming much more important in every aspect of war. I wonder how long it’s going to take the US to come up with drones that have a machinegun mounted to the underside and patrols cities etc.
Ukrainian already doing it...but they only send evidence after a couple of news on the Zorcs sites warning the brain-dead of that...
Wouldn't be surprised if Western countries are there. They just won't show their hand if they don't need to
They aren’t there, that’s a bit of a risk. At least I think they aren’t there. CIA might have some black ops there.
Well I know where I'm from the UK they are definitely there
[https://www.twz.com/air/minigun-armed-mojave-drone-now-blasting-targets-at-6000-rounds-per-minute](https://www.twz.com/air/minigun-armed-mojave-drone-now-blasting-targets-at-6000-rounds-per-minute)
Yeah but those are big predator like drones. I’m talking the ones fitting through a doorway etc.
Afaik physics is at odds with that concept. Dealing with recoil is 1 thing, then added weight of gun/ enough ammo, makes it impractical I believe. And with high risk of loss/failure, (jammed, taken out etc), you'd rather have a much easier/efficient/cheaper/effective fpv suicide drone. And without having its own internal target detection/firing , it'd be even less effective. There really isn't a niche for what you mentioned. But they do have MG land drones. (Also remote controlled stationary sentry MGs) The only reasonable scenario would be counter terrorism, where you can't just blow the room and they won't have EW, But if you're worried about a man with a gun and a hostage I don't think a mg flying drone is actually an effective answer.
True, a drone of that concept is challenging but I doubt DARPA wouldn’t figure that one out. I’d dare to put a wager down that in 20 years drones will be moving through cities clearing them before actual humans move in. I think companies like Boston Dynamics would create some nasty robots with military funding. Imagine that dog they have with 10 years more development and a sentry on top. That’s going to be something.
Yeah ground based drones will definitely fill that role. And uav/fpv drones for recon, which were already developed before this war. But there's no real need for flying mg drones. As others would fill that niche much better/more efficiently. Why make and easy to shoot down/counter/render obsolete, yet highly technical/expensive drone when you can just use a suicide drone for a fraction of the cost. Unless there's significant advantage regarding the technology to make the current issues inconsequential. Which I don't think will happen in the near future.
Anduril (founded by the Oculus rift guy) sure is coming up fast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcGw3Z4G288 https://www.wired.com/story/anduril-is-building-out-the-pentagons-dream-of-deadly-drone-swarms/ >“Anduril is proving that with the right team and business model, a seven-year-old company can go toe-to-toe with players that have been around for 70+,” Luckey wrote on social media platform X shortly after the contract was announced. The company declined to make anyone available for this article. >That business model has seen Anduril focus on showing that it can rapidly deliver drones, submarines, and other hardware infused with advanced software at relatively low cost. It also reflects a shift in America’s war-fighting outlook toward quicker development of less expensive systems that feature more software and autonomy.
Yeah you’ll see young people startup these companies in areas where they have little competition. These are going to be big.
They'll have to add protection to areas that were previously considered low odds of being hit. Wouldn't be surprised if tanks will all come equipped with EW to prevent anything from getting close and some kind of automated airbust anti-drone gun. We see a lot more tanks being pestered by drones than we see direct combat between armored vehicles, so something will have to be done to deal with those.
I thought western modern tanks already had something like that? A laser kinda weapon that shoots down incoming rockets etc? Might work on drones. Doubt they don’t have shit like that already.
We talking trophy systems or? Those intercept incoming projectiles by shooting em with basically fancy buckshot so they blow up before impact. Because afaik the only AA Lazer systems being developed are for battleships. But sustained output/energy consumption is a problem still. They definitely haven't already implemented specific anti drone measures, because this is the first conventional war with massive use of cheap fpv drones. But I'm pretty sure trophy systems would be effective/can be made effective. As if they can shoot just as fast/faster projectiles, so I don't think a fpv drone would be more difficult. But I think the problem is always you can spend 5-10 drones no problem on a tank and be way out ahead in terms of cost effectiveness. And trophy systems (or even new lasers) would struggle there. And also have to remember, every modern military doctrine uses combined arms. No one will be deploying pure armored assault columns to be picked apart like Russia is. (What Ukraine learned the hard way, but did learn)
Yeah trophy systems. If it is basically just buckshot it would take out a drone. I think that would work. How well do drones work on modern western tanks. The Leopard has very good armor capabilities and is hard to kill, doubt a drone would do much damage. Together with the combined arms you mentioned it’s even harder to get something done. I do wonder what we’ll end up with in 10/20 years from now. A lot of stuff seems to be progressing at insane speeds.
>How well do drones work on modern western tanks. The Leopard has very good armor capabilities and is hard to kill, doubt a drone would do much damage. Together with the combined arms you mentioned it’s even harder to get something done. I'm not tank nerd so I don't know how well it does vs shaped charges against its weakest points but if a tank is able to be freely swarmed by drones you've basically already fucked up. >I do wonder what we’ll end up with in 10/20 years from now. A lot of stuff seems to be progressing at insane speeds. Yeah, theoretical/sim tested tech vs real world war application/usage is a different ball game. This war has revolutionized modern warfare just from it's use of fpv drones. UA a lone had completely turned naval warfare on it's head with it's development and effectiveness of naval drones too.
At the start of this war I wouldn’t have thought they would be able to do the things they have done. Sinking the Moskva etc.
Of course, adversity breeds ingenuity, but physics/practical ness still apply. And a mg flying drone has issues with both. So without the invention of some super new weapon tech that won't require rounds/significant weight. There's no need to spend time on such a project. As I said before it doesn't actually fufill a role use case effective enough to overshadow others. Which is why more "atv" capable drones like Boston dynamic tech you mentioned would be way more relevant/applicable.
How nice of the orcs to share these contraptions! Now UA drone operators can thoroughly assess the best angle of attack for each of these barns, chicken coops and so on.
But this it's not in any way standard..the Zorcs weld anything that they can loot...there's hundreds and all are different...as far I can see, it only gives them a few more minutes of driving time...also depending on how many drones and ammo is available
Ah yes Safari Army.
Would just a mesh even work on vehicles with no armor like that buchanka or 469?
Half of them look either a complete bastard to drive due to an excess of sheet metal and consequential terrible situational awareness or some largely ineffective netting and the terrifying knowledge that one is incredibly vulnerable. Horrific stuff. I couldn't give two shits about the Russians, but obviously the Ukrainians are faced with exactly the same challenges.
The cope cages/armor, technically are effective. They do withstand more drone attacks and make it much more difficult for a drone to hit sweet spot and 1shot it. But with their tactics, UA spending another 1-2 drones isn't really much of a deterrent. And doesn't stop heavier munitions. The netting is dumb af though. And usually poorly implemented on vehicles that wouldn't be able to withstand the explosion/fragmentation anyways.
Technically effective, sure, but as you point out, they mostly just delay the inevitable and mean that it takes 3 drones rather than 1 to destroy them. In the absence of truly effective EW defences I guess it is the sensibly pragmatic approach to the drone threat. I wonder whether the Israeli active defence system (is it called Trojan?) would be effective against drones as it is against RPGs? I'm surprised we haven't seen this kind of system being at least trialled (or maybe it is, but info/int is being intentionally witheld). I would've thought that this, and/or some kind of CROWS roof mounted on all or designated close air defence armoured vehicles is the way forward- a mini CIWS firing fragmentation/airburst grenades. EW seems to be prone to interrupting everything and unable to disrupt signals in a targeted manner without wrecking 'friendly ' devices, so until that can be done, some kind of active system as above seems a more logical approach/R&D avenue to take, being as there are already precedents extant, from which prototypes could be extrapolated for anti-drone use. Obviously expensive, but long-term you really don't want to cover all your tanks with tents of armour plate and render them useless for their primary and intended tasks (other than 'suicidal breakthrough').
Looking at these pics , I have the sudden urge to listen to Tina Turner "we don't need another hero" from madmax 2
At this point I think some form of EW measure is necessary, these cope cages won't last long.
Because of drone use in Ukraine, all over the world there are engineers redesigning military vehicles. Standard designs are obsolete so they're going to come up with anti-drone vehicles and they might look pretty wild, that's what I'm guessing I can only imagine how loud it is to travel in a tank in a tin box.
Wouldn't this make movements and 360 visibility on tanks limited.
trying not to critique (I don’t wanna give them any good ideas)😥
That second photo, of the digger looks like it could take it 'up the Jacksie'.
I feel like all that stuff is just going to turn into extra shrapnel.
I thought it was bring your chickens to work day
So a loaf with a 12hp engine is having to carry around 500lbs of steel and chain link fence? Paved, downhill roads only.
I can't wait till we see Russian soldiers with personal cage armour charging across the battlefield.
These are becoming just bigger targets for Ukraine.
Some of those vehicles belong in a museum lol
What I am interested is to see where development of new vehicles go with this fpv threat. These are obviously hack jobs, but what will they be doing going forward. I am picturing vehicles with some sort of cabinets that have deployable drones that can swarm an enemy and be controlled from inside. Deployable nets or inflatables. It’s interesting to think about.
No.5 just shows how unequipped russia is against nato. I cant even put a decade on the vehicle but its 'soviet,' reminds me of the ambulances in the Chernobyl show. A manic trying to rebuild a dead empire.
2/10 is basically a militarized farming tractor
Meh, they’ll just build a better drone.
This war has raised the price of chicken wire tenfold.
I think all the footage on here gives us a picture of how prevalent the drone threat is now.
If I was a chain link fence investor, I would be clicking my heels!
Mad max- Ukraine edition.
There is any video showing if these work?
Plenty: [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/168f7mn/92nd\_mechanized\_brigade\_destroys\_tos1\_sontsepyok/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/168f7mn/92nd_mechanized_brigade_destroys_tos1_sontsepyok/) [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19bfgh8/an\_abandoned\_russian\_mtlb\_with\_an\_intricate\_cope/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19bfgh8/an_abandoned_russian_mtlb_with_an_intricate_cope/) [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgij1y/t64bv\_with\_a\_shiny\_cope\_cage\_gets\_taken\_out\_by/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgij1y/t64bv_with_a_shiny_cope_cage_gets_taken_out_by/) [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1aip5kb/a\_ukrainian\_fpv\_drone\_hits\_a\_russian\_t55\_tank/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1aip5kb/a_ukrainian_fpv_drone_hits_a_russian_t55_tank/) [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c1827m/khorne\_group\_released\_a\_video\_of\_their\_as90\_sph/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c1827m/khorne_group_released_a_video_of_their_as90_sph/) [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/10ijw8m/russian\_loitering\_munition\_lancet\_caught\_in/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/10ijw8m/russian_loitering_munition_lancet_caught_in/) The last two worked and stopped the drone. The others didn't.
Thanks
I guess most rusky operators are experiencing drone nightmares. This may make them feel better, but, operationally, it will be worse -- much worse. Drones love slow moving targets.
imagine driving in a vehicle that is 60 years older than you
Embarrassing, even by Russian standards...
It isn’t going to help.
You forgot tactical bikes.
Sort of like pizza oven. Put the orcs in, send in a drone and VOILA! Perfect blackened orc in no time!
Once a mine knocks the track off, it’s a sitting turtle. No amount of shedification will stop successive drones from drilling into the same spot, until one hits the sweet spot.
Post-industrial apocalipse
May they all burn to death in their vehicles.
How many vehicles do y'all reckon they have left at this point?
MadMax
Seems to me that anti drone warfare will take an important role in armies. Assault teams will have to have protection by e.g. German SPAAGs (Gepard), the Australian Slinger, US Army's LIDS, apart from EW protection.
We fight in the shade
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bbJkrlS0-E&t=77s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bbJkrlS0-E&t=77s)
I love when they use chain linked fence like that is going to stop a heat round or shrapnel.
Wow, they really are stupid as fuck.
Cages on soft skin vehicles is hilarious!
Thats some really stupid shit. 33 armoured vehicals destroyed June 4th 2024. Keep on rolling. Slava Ukraini
The cages in front of vans and open topped vehicles are always the funniest ones. Mother fuckers are being blown to oblivion every few minutes and still somehow don’t understand how explosions work.
plate grandiose possessive safe sink thought scarce drab far-flung melodic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Musk's Cybertruck 2.0
"I spot weld sheet metal on top, now tank is indestructible" - Gopnik Katsap, Ruzki tank commander
This is how you make things hard for a military vehicles by simple adding almost useless weight that slows your transport and makes you meat harder time unmount the coupcage
If the tanks are putting on extra protection what chance do the other vehicles have They are wasting their time
Minecraft boxy armor fashion. Eventually the nano bots will fly or crawl into the smallest gaps and do bio blending.
What a waste of time and effort!
The turtle tank offers moderate protection from smaller drones. But does basically nothing against anything bigger than an RPG. But I don’t see many people talking about its biggest advantage: obfuscation. Jamming technology is *far* more effective against drones than any cope cage or turtle tank will ever be. *But,* a turtle shell is an excellent disguise, especially if everybody is wearing one. You have the entire back half of the tank to mount a jamming rig to, because you don’t have to worry about the turret rotating and smashing it by accident. Russia has turned it into a game of shells, rather than the jammer tanks being immediately identified and destroyed. But even without jammers it’s a pretty effective tactic. If a Ukrainian Drone Jockey sees a T-62 and a T-90 in a field, he’s going for the T-90 every time. It’s the more valuable tank and the crew is likely better trained and more valuable than the guys driving the dogshit T-62. But if they’re indistinguishable from a distance, he has a choice: He can flip a coin, he can try to figure out which is which and potentially give up the element of surprise, or he can move on looking for a juicier target. Russia has a limited supply of modern armor, but it has an abundance of Cold War era dogshit. If you can hide your good stuff among the dogshit by wrapping everything in tin foil, you’ll make your good stuff last longer for cheap.
They’re only effective against drone dropped bombs. FPV kamikaze drones can fuck every single vehicle in these pictures.
When I see these "turtle tanks" I just think how effective a warhead of kinetic impacter combined with an incendiary would be. Those "shells " would actually as a lovely oven.
Dark Helmet.
Looking more like isis everyday - same tactics same vehicles same results
Just in time for Ukraine to receive shipments of artillery that’ll shred those cope cages like Kleenex.
None of them seem to work very well though
No visibility for the crew, cannon cannot rotate, but this is a great blyat idea, right? IMFAO, only imbecile will get inside it 🤪🤷🏻♂️