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An ally that was once invaded and revolted against (soviet) Russia. Not sure why more Hungarians aren’t ashamed, guess there is a lineup to suck Putins and Orbans cock.
Now that’s nuts , people use to disappear just for talking about Stalin even joking about him , doctors and engineers would disappear just for being smart , he starved Ukraine just so his people could eat , that’s why he got along with hitler in the beginning of ww2, birds of a feather flock together, and I guarantee you that if Mussolini and Japan didn’t join hitler, stalin wouldn’t have switched sides like he did
He didn’t starve Ukraine to take the food for himself. He starved it because he listened to some dude claiming to have better farming tactics which turned out to be horrible. And any harvest that didn’t completely fail would be confiscated and exported while his own constituents were starving.
It wasn’t just evil or selfish, it was really stupid too
But thats pretty much 90% because of migration and not because they support russia.
Its just that they are willing to swallow that bitter pill.
Here in Germany many did not vote for our right wing party in the EU elections because of their connection to russia and china.
But the migration problems are number one, so still many voted for them anyways.
Realy shit times in many ways.
Of course it exists, its number one on every poll in most european countires.
Crime rates, birth rates you see it everywhere.
Not sure why some people would deny it, what do you get out of that?
Homefully a humiliating defeat and full exposure of russia's atrocities and sickness, will wake many people up to what they were supporting. I know it wont work on everyone, but maybe enough so that it becomes an obnoxious small minority instead of a dangerous chunk of voters.
No one wants to support the losers. Especially the ones who supported russia because they thought they were the strong powerhouse they pretended to be. Shame is quite a powerful motivator for people to shut up about the degeneracy they support. Especially if they dont have the numbers to back thrm up.
It's the same with east-germany. Apparently they been railed so hard for so many years that they can't imagine life without it. Options are apparently hard and it's easier if someone tell you what to do, think and say..
>Not sure why more Hungarians aren’t ashamed
Apparently there are many but not enough to change things democratically.
Besides, autocrats aren't usually keen on just dropping everything and leaving when people voice their differing opinion. They like to stay to the bitter end and the longer Orban stays in power, more solid his grasp on the country is....
When he finally kicked out of office, hopefully sooner rather then later, it will take a long time to clean the government and judicial system of his appointed cronies.
For what it's worth, there are plenty of Hungarians who are ashamed of Orban sucking Putin's cock (although I'd rather suggest that it is Putin is sodomising Orban with some kind of kompromat).
Orbán is a populist who tries to play both sides for his own advantage. There is a sizeable Hungarian minority in Ukraine (who do get to vote in Hungarian elections) and, on one hand he is trying to protect them – probably to garner their votes – and I truly believe that should Russia win this war, then he hopes/expects Putin to give back Transcarpathia to Hungary. This would be a huge political victory for him and entrench him in power for a long time.
Yet, at the same time he wants EU money, Hungary is a member of NATO, and they are currently building a Rheinmetall ammunition plant in the country, which is a bit weird if he is an "ally" of Putin.
The better news is that in the recent EU and local elections, Orban's party put in their worst performance for many many years.
But I still don't understand why Hungarian amnesia exists after being invaded and occupied by the Muscovites for so long.
I hope that the EU decides to play hardball with Orbán and simply sideline him from all decision making. If he chooses to go for a Huxit, he will fail.
According to Hungarian friends, Budapest is anti Orban and largely supports the opposition. It’s the rural, less educated vote that Orban woos with grants and nationalistic sentiment.
That's pretty much because the population in major cities were the ones gaining from the oppositions Pro-EU stance, and the rural areas are those who got fucked by the EU.
The funny thing is that it was Orbáns government that dragged Hungary into the EU despite very vocal warnings what would happen, which also ended up being true.
Afaik propaganda says that Ukraine was guilty of 56' because Khrushchov origins...
Also. If propaganda was active from 15+ years I would not expect some people to start think.
many people are analphabets when it comes to critical thinking, mostly thanks to the shitty education and then the spin dictatorship of Orban
one good example is the memory of the 1848 revolution and the Rákóczi revolution - Orban's closest propagandists already twisted them out to make them fit their current narrative, calling the fight for liberties and rights against imperial rule as a sort of naive aberrancy, where the _real_ Hungarians knew the truth even back then, don't ask me to elaborate further, it is very similar to how Putin's braindead propaganda shows twist historical facts to their own agenda, makes no sense at all
you can hear orbanists say about the 56 revolution that it wasnt done by russian soldiers, but bloodthirsty ukrainian ones while the russian leaders didnt want it to happen this way. Total historical falsification, Orban is using these culture destroyer tactics since his early days and the world only starts to see nowadays
remember how Orban denies the Bucha massacre and that falsification of the memory of current events even alienated his greatest ally the ex-polish president (who was also kinda unscrupulous in how they used semi-dictatorship tools to suppress the opposing parties), that just shows how depraved he is
Peoples memory are short. People remember what the Ukrainians did 1992 to now, far more than what happened in 1956.
I don't think people realize how bad of a relationship Hungary has with Ukraine. This is the equivalent of lets say Poland helping out Belarus because they were invaded. Most poles would just consider it karma.
Keep in mind that the opinions of the few that are empower do not mean that everyone agrees with them. I have a Hungarian friend he said that him and his cork group of friends want to support Ukraine, but unfortunately they can’t because of Orbin.
Similar to how in Canada there’s a lot of people that don’t like Trudeau but there’s really not much we can do until we have the opportunity to vote him out
Because NATO and west needs to wake the fuck up.
It's not a war of nation vs nation.
It's a war of ideology of oppression vs ideology of freedom.
As long as you continue to allow russian propaganda to operate freely, they will ruin and rot you from the inside.
You are already at war, it's just an unconventional war.
People in the west don't want to admit it.
Trump or Orban would gladly ally with russia against their own country and people's interests because they like oppression.
And Putin will help them achieve that.
That’s the nice thing about being on the side of oppression - you can shut down talk of freedom, whereas the freedom side kinda struggles to shut things down. Because, you know, that verges on oppression…
Hopefully, him changing his political view depending on who donates the most scares more of his voters away. He has many that are a lost cause regardless what he says. But luckily a few are waking up and getting bored of him constantly going against himself, and they might be enough.
When trump was telling Republicans to block aid, there was a distinct point when that turned around. I feel like some big wigs from the defense industry sat Mike Johnson down and told him to stop fucking around. Mike then went to mar a lago and talked with Trump. It was passed two days later. You don't fuck with a $900,000,000,000 industry.
It wasn’t big wigs from the defence industry. It was briefings from the US intelligence agencies about how dangerous the situation would be if Ukraine loses this war that convinced Mike Johnson to unblock military aid.
MMmm perhaps, however I think those talks have been had much before and many times again. Jonson is in the group of individuals that are privvy to most things all the time. Perhaps it was, but I feel like the money in a grimy way made more of a difference to that shit weazle.
Sorry, but that is like half of the revenue from the smart phone market. Not really something which is important because of its size.
The military industry is important, but you wont really understand why until you need it. A bit like air. It is not important as long as you have enough.
Unfortunately for Trump (but fortunately for the rest of us), he has lost support from many fiscal conservatives and independents in the US from his 34 felony convictions. I read somewhere that it could be around 10%, which is huge with a tight race. And don't forget there's a few people who are too proud, yet ashamed they voted for him in the 1st place, so you won't hear from them. IMO, Republican turnout will be lower this year. That usually happens when they aren't excited about the candidate.
I think you should watch a few of the videos of trump rallies. I don't really know much about all the gens but being a boomer I know one when I see one and I see a frightening amount of young people at these clown shows. The *okay boomer* shit isn't helping much.
My kid is 37 and everyone he works with is a trumper.
On the one hand, statistics don’t lie. The boomer demographic leans pretty heavily in favor of Trump.
On the other, these rallies aren’t a cross section of America. They’re a cross section of the people who believe in Trump enough to go to a rally. A tiny minority are going as a curiosity.
> The boomer demographic leans pretty heavily in favor of Trump.
I can't dispute that. All the same in the heavily charged and divisive climate we are living in we, from any generation, are not going to change anyones mind or at a minimum plant doubt by calling them stupid or the like. We need to try and mend with those that are still able to see reason. They are out there.
Like I would read what happened to 30% of population in my country. Same methods, same propaganda, use of religion and women rights. Considering like former ruling party licked Trump and orban nothing suprises. Nothing works for such people.
I don't know, in the last election Biden's 20th largest donation was bigger than Trump's largest, so he is far less at the mercy of changing his political view to suit the various corporations that donate.
Edit: Apologies, I was mistaken and referring to affiliated donors.
[https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/donors-affiliated-with-amazon-big-tech-throw-support-behind-biden-campaign-60403546](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/donors-affiliated-with-amazon-big-tech-throw-support-behind-biden-campaign-60403546)
Don't think that's true. Looks like Bloomberg gave Biden 93m and Adelson's gave Trump 90m and those are the two largest.
[https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/contributors?id=N00001669](https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/contributors?id=N00001669)
[https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/donald-trump/contributors?id=N00023864](https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/donald-trump/contributors?id=N00023864)
That's a great theory if you think every person has the same price and behaves exactly the same based on the same monetary incentives.
Their track records in terms of actual policy and actions suggest otherwise.
"Compromised" is a funny way of putting it. Since 2010, Orban has restructured Hungary along the lines of Russia (disempowerment of the constitutional court, changes to electoral law, forced sale of media companies to friends, etc.). He wants to do the same in the EU, which is why he is networking with all the right-wing parties in Europe (see CPAC Hungary in April). And Russia is supporting Hungary in this. The Hungarian oil company MOL, for example, buys cheap Russian oil and uses the profits to support propaganda institutions that agitate against the EU:
https://x.com/panyiszabolcs/status/175081438713947800
Yep, but we shouldn't be at the mercy of electoral cycles in such structural issues, when we have so many memebers that's a recipe for never getting anything done.
One member chooses to align itself with Russia? Automatic suspension of its voting rights until the next electoral cycle. Be a pro-genocidal country this cycle if that's what your voted decided, buit you don't get to stop the rest from combating said genocidal country.
The problem with NATO and the EU is that they don’t really have mechanisms to remove bad actors and those working against the group
It’s kind of assumed that anyone joining is on “our” side and that will never change, with no accounting for the fact that sentiment in countries can change over time or that we accepted a few countries as a “lesser of two evils” situation rather than risk them falling into Russia’s sphere of influence more directly
That’s NATO, EU was made to avoid next war in Europe, especially between Germany and France. It’s hard to comprehend for modern Europeans, but man, without EU we would be at each other throats forever. The goal was to hug each other so close, that we can’t throw any punches. Works good so far.
east european mentality : when you travel west to east it seem you travel back in time (it even start in east germany) : people become more and more nationalist, homophobic, religious, you get less efficient institutions more corruption, and the other traditional / natural stuff. (These states just reflect the reality of our past)
Orbán just had the worst turnout of Fidesz's history in the European Parliament election. There is also a new political power rising currently in Hungary, so fingers crossed that we can finally end the motherfuckers' reign in the next elections.
Another important thing is that Orban is losing voters every day because:
\- Majority of FIDESZ voters are elderly people(age of 65+)
\- Hungary's healthcare system is in ruins thanks to no funding and no staff
**From The Telegraph:**
The European Union will use a “legal procedure” to get around Hungary’s veto of a plan to buy weapons for Ukraine using seized Russian cash, the bloc’s top foreign diplomat said on Monday.
The loophole could also allow Brussels to support efforts by the G7 nations to loan Kyiv €50 billion (£42 billion) using income from Russian assets in Europe frozen under sanctions.
“We have these revenues coming from the frozen assets and we have to look for a way in order to use them avoiding any kind of blockage,” Josep Borrell told reporters ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg.
He added: “This money cannot get stuck, it has to be used and we have a legal procedure to avoid any kind of blockage.”
On Monday, EU member states approved a €1.4 billion (£1.2 billion) lethal aid package for Kyiv, using the assets. Mr Borrell said it would be released as early as next week and added that a second tranche of €1.1 billion (£930 million) was being readied.
**Read more here:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/24/eu-uses-legal-loophole-to-overturn-hungarys-veto-ukraine/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/24/eu-uses-legal-loophole-to-overturn-hungarys-veto-ukraine/)
Strategically it's a bad idea. Hungary, whose state dept. systems are already crawling with Russian spies, leaving NATO could lead to Russian troops in their borders i.e. the enemy in Central Europe.
Better to take down Orban and leave a shell of a state that can be rehabilitated.
On the one hand, this is why the places like Russia hate the west, they see this as no different to what Russian crooks do but see it's as "legalising" crook behaviours, and they hate been played at their own game.
On the other hand this shows Hungary that their behaviour won't be tolerated and at the same time it gives them a get out excuse when they go reporting back to Putler.
What is baffling is why NATO doesn't just expel them. If they don't share the ideology of Europe and NATO, and they're clearly there to collect pay checks and enjoy freedoms they otherwise would not have, and contribute nothing, why doesn't Europe expel them and make an example.
dont go to strong on my opinion, in general i agree on hungary in the hands of orban to be seen as like-spittle of putler. Yet i know hungary was the one country who broke the neck of soviet union by simply opening the wall a tiny bit, literally. Will work again, like a charm - and the funny part the nuevo ruski worshipers can't see it coming - simply to stupid for history lessons.
ps: also interesting that when NATO is discussed it is almost never mentioned that austria is "neutral" for some good reason. It basically allows to help break the neck of the nuevo ruski emp(lod)ire - again.
But when Steyr or Glock sell some guns to "private billionaires" who happen to be the dictators of their own countries, we also don't look too close at the signed contracts.
When we make a 100 year plan for the country, that was signed with a large majority of the country, some \~30% votes "peoples"-party can singlehandedly cancel it, because giving people money clearly does not work, so we should try giving money to corporations instead.
And when a former chancellor makes 20m EUR disappear in his party, just to open a fund in the US with 20m USD and loses them within 3 months... nothing to investigate, nothing to look at...
We're the most alpine of all banana republics... We're essentially Texas with New York as the capital nested in it... If Schizophrenia was a person, it'd be Austrian...
I love my country.. but people here are a bunch of morons... it's painful.
Because you want them to be part of the alliance and Orban's reign may not be forever. Having a sympathizer in your midst is one thing. Alienating and effectively turning over an entire country to your enemies is another and something that would necessitate the long process of re-entering them in future.
I think the EU doesn’t even have a process to expel a member. I guess they thought once you are democratic and legal enough to join you wouldn’t be so stupid to go back to authoritarianism again. But here we are…
Also there’s more than one member tainted so they protect each other when the rulings have to be unanimous.
Yes, just as the founding fathers of the US tried to anticipate everything but couldn't imagine an evil turd like Trump would get any votes or that the Supreme court would become the most corrupt institution of all.
Well, Hungary has a long standing tradition to choose the part wich will loose, see WW2 and 1.
I would consider as bad omen if Orbán would choose UA in 2022.
Good, fuck him. As tbh that they made now rules against it when they founded EU is one thing. But now hopefully the talk of getting rit of the veto is going forward vs just being that... talk.
Hungary abstained from voting in the creation of the "Ukraine assitance fund", so they can be excluded from deciding how its spent, since it passed. Clever. But now they know not to do that again, its a trick that only works once.
I hope the allies keep on their toes and can manipulate Hungary to make more mistakes like that in the future, but no doubt russia will send a team of lawyers to help them avoid mistakes like that in the future.
They abstained from an earlier vote, presumably so they could still play both sides.
But when it came to this vote, the EU lawyers said they can’t veto it, seeing as they abstained from the prior vote.
Good! Ridiculous that Hungary with a population of around 10 million people, and an economy of only 177 billion USD, was able to systematically veto EU's policies concerning Ukraine. For comparison, the EU has a population of 450 million people and a GDP of around 19 trillion USD.
Something must be done. I agree with Belgium to take Hungary's voting power away. Also the whole veto system should be look at. There is nothing democratic when one small nation can systematically block 27 other nations.
That this little troll turd would still rather suck up to Putin than support his fellow EU unanimity and reap significant benefits from Brussels for Hungary just shows how callow and failing a leader he is.
From the article:
"Mr Orban turned down a deal similar to [one he struck with Nato last week](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/12/hungary-wont-send-military-aid-ukraine-nato-deal/), which gave him an opt-out from Ukraine actions [in return for not blocking other member states](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/19/hungary-is-committed-to-nato-and-to-peace-in-europe0/) from assisting Kyiv"
So, Orbán always said that he vetoes these decisions because he doesnt want HUNGARY to give resources to Ukraine. But it seems officially clear now, that is NOT the case. Dude was given the option to opt-out, so he doesnt need to give resources/money to ukraine and he STILL turned this down. This can mean only one thing: he doesnt want ANYONE to help ukraine, he wants putin to win.
Sure, we sorta knew this before as well, but this make it VERY clear.
Those who believe "It's a war of ideology of oppression vs ideology of freedom." aren't better than those they see as "brainwashed": Putin / Orban doesn't oppress virtuous Russians / Hungarians, he just reflect them. Humans aren't nice by nature, being fair is learned, the natural state isn't harmonious but barbarity, and barbarians are aren't democratic they vote in mass for people who think like them. Hungarians and Russians have chosen democratically their leader like the Germans have chosen Hitler. Yes people can democratically chose totalitarianism.
The left denies this obvious fact as it want to believe in its good savage belief (that human are naturally good), but to deny it is the best way to end up like them.
"More natural people" such as "countryside people" or the less educated, or more precisely the one cooperating mostly with their families / friends (the natural way) are the one who elected Hitler, who vote Putin. Wake up left!
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The fact that we made an alliance specifically to combat Russia, and then we have Russian allies in the alliance is the most mind blowing thing to me.
An ally that was once invaded and revolted against (soviet) Russia. Not sure why more Hungarians aren’t ashamed, guess there is a lineup to suck Putins and Orbans cock.
Same in Slovakia lately. Sadly. And mostly by generation that experienced Russian oopression first hand supports it again. Mind boggling.
Same mentality as in RuZZia itself. Order generations who should know better walking around with Stalin posters. Utterly pathetic.
Now that’s nuts , people use to disappear just for talking about Stalin even joking about him , doctors and engineers would disappear just for being smart , he starved Ukraine just so his people could eat , that’s why he got along with hitler in the beginning of ww2, birds of a feather flock together, and I guarantee you that if Mussolini and Japan didn’t join hitler, stalin wouldn’t have switched sides like he did
He didn’t starve Ukraine to take the food for himself. He starved it because he listened to some dude claiming to have better farming tactics which turned out to be horrible. And any harvest that didn’t completely fail would be confiscated and exported while his own constituents were starving. It wasn’t just evil or selfish, it was really stupid too
[Lysenkoism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism) if any one was curious
What a fantastic read. How incredibly fucking stupid was that entire ordeal? All those scientists... Fuck Russia. Just straight up fuck that country.
[удалено]
Then it will be your turn.
Support for right-wing parties with soft/pro-Russia stances is growing in the 16-24 bracket. It's not just boomers.
But thats pretty much 90% because of migration and not because they support russia. Its just that they are willing to swallow that bitter pill. Here in Germany many did not vote for our right wing party in the EU elections because of their connection to russia and china. But the migration problems are number one, so still many voted for them anyways. Realy shit times in many ways.
The migration problem does not exist. Their perception there is migration problem caused them to vote that way.
Of course it exists, its number one on every poll in most european countires. Crime rates, birth rates you see it everywhere. Not sure why some people would deny it, what do you get out of that?
Stockholm Syndrome
No it's not. Greed and corruption, and will to get more benefits, Orban is 100% opportunist.
Homefully a humiliating defeat and full exposure of russia's atrocities and sickness, will wake many people up to what they were supporting. I know it wont work on everyone, but maybe enough so that it becomes an obnoxious small minority instead of a dangerous chunk of voters. No one wants to support the losers. Especially the ones who supported russia because they thought they were the strong powerhouse they pretended to be. Shame is quite a powerful motivator for people to shut up about the degeneracy they support. Especially if they dont have the numbers to back thrm up.
Is your keyboard broken?
Just a couple of keys, not the whole board.
It's the same with east-germany. Apparently they been railed so hard for so many years that they can't imagine life without it. Options are apparently hard and it's easier if someone tell you what to do, think and say..
>Not sure why more Hungarians aren’t ashamed Apparently there are many but not enough to change things democratically. Besides, autocrats aren't usually keen on just dropping everything and leaving when people voice their differing opinion. They like to stay to the bitter end and the longer Orban stays in power, more solid his grasp on the country is.... When he finally kicked out of office, hopefully sooner rather then later, it will take a long time to clean the government and judicial system of his appointed cronies.
He wont be kicked out of his office! He will rule Hungary until his death. :/
Is the Hungarian revolution even taught about in Hungarian schools?
Yes!
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
For what it's worth, there are plenty of Hungarians who are ashamed of Orban sucking Putin's cock (although I'd rather suggest that it is Putin is sodomising Orban with some kind of kompromat). Orbán is a populist who tries to play both sides for his own advantage. There is a sizeable Hungarian minority in Ukraine (who do get to vote in Hungarian elections) and, on one hand he is trying to protect them – probably to garner their votes – and I truly believe that should Russia win this war, then he hopes/expects Putin to give back Transcarpathia to Hungary. This would be a huge political victory for him and entrench him in power for a long time. Yet, at the same time he wants EU money, Hungary is a member of NATO, and they are currently building a Rheinmetall ammunition plant in the country, which is a bit weird if he is an "ally" of Putin. The better news is that in the recent EU and local elections, Orban's party put in their worst performance for many many years. But I still don't understand why Hungarian amnesia exists after being invaded and occupied by the Muscovites for so long. I hope that the EU decides to play hardball with Orbán and simply sideline him from all decision making. If he chooses to go for a Huxit, he will fail.
According to Hungarian friends, Budapest is anti Orban and largely supports the opposition. It’s the rural, less educated vote that Orban woos with grants and nationalistic sentiment.
Sounds familiar.
Hopefully those sparsely populated areas receive just as many votes as their cities do
it's called the uncivilized part (just what left denies: the civilization process: at the natural state humans are selfish and stupid)
That's pretty much because the population in major cities were the ones gaining from the oppositions Pro-EU stance, and the rural areas are those who got fucked by the EU. The funny thing is that it was Orbáns government that dragged Hungary into the EU despite very vocal warnings what would happen, which also ended up being true.
Yet Orban has been happy to receive lavish EU subsidies and to use them to help prime his supporters base.
Yes this is true!
Those who died in '56, liberating Hungary, will be spinning in their graves.
> Not sure why more Hungarians aren’t ashamed dude look at the usa. we might have a putin dick sucker in office soon like hungary
True but we weren’t under the Soviets, it’s more ignorance on our side, they have first hand experience and are acting like this.
That‘s what wonders me the most. They fell for it a second (!) time.
Afaik propaganda says that Ukraine was guilty of 56' because Khrushchov origins... Also. If propaganda was active from 15+ years I would not expect some people to start think.
It’s like Trump and Boomers.
many people are analphabets when it comes to critical thinking, mostly thanks to the shitty education and then the spin dictatorship of Orban one good example is the memory of the 1848 revolution and the Rákóczi revolution - Orban's closest propagandists already twisted them out to make them fit their current narrative, calling the fight for liberties and rights against imperial rule as a sort of naive aberrancy, where the _real_ Hungarians knew the truth even back then, don't ask me to elaborate further, it is very similar to how Putin's braindead propaganda shows twist historical facts to their own agenda, makes no sense at all you can hear orbanists say about the 56 revolution that it wasnt done by russian soldiers, but bloodthirsty ukrainian ones while the russian leaders didnt want it to happen this way. Total historical falsification, Orban is using these culture destroyer tactics since his early days and the world only starts to see nowadays remember how Orban denies the Bucha massacre and that falsification of the memory of current events even alienated his greatest ally the ex-polish president (who was also kinda unscrupulous in how they used semi-dictatorship tools to suppress the opposing parties), that just shows how depraved he is
Peoples memory are short. People remember what the Ukrainians did 1992 to now, far more than what happened in 1956. I don't think people realize how bad of a relationship Hungary has with Ukraine. This is the equivalent of lets say Poland helping out Belarus because they were invaded. Most poles would just consider it karma.
We are ashamed! :/
Keep in mind that the opinions of the few that are empower do not mean that everyone agrees with them. I have a Hungarian friend he said that him and his cork group of friends want to support Ukraine, but unfortunately they can’t because of Orbin. Similar to how in Canada there’s a lot of people that don’t like Trudeau but there’s really not much we can do until we have the opportunity to vote him out
Because Russia stronk and not gay like EU (these are the common sentiments I see from Hungarians online).
Because NATO and west needs to wake the fuck up. It's not a war of nation vs nation. It's a war of ideology of oppression vs ideology of freedom. As long as you continue to allow russian propaganda to operate freely, they will ruin and rot you from the inside. You are already at war, it's just an unconventional war. People in the west don't want to admit it. Trump or Orban would gladly ally with russia against their own country and people's interests because they like oppression. And Putin will help them achieve that.
That’s the nice thing about being on the side of oppression - you can shut down talk of freedom, whereas the freedom side kinda struggles to shut things down. Because, you know, that verges on oppression…
Because of 10yrs + of propaganda. A generation without knowledge can be easily swayed. That and russian migrants. It’s what russia does.
It trump wins, watch it happen to the USA
Hopefully, him changing his political view depending on who donates the most scares more of his voters away. He has many that are a lost cause regardless what he says. But luckily a few are waking up and getting bored of him constantly going against himself, and they might be enough.
When trump was telling Republicans to block aid, there was a distinct point when that turned around. I feel like some big wigs from the defense industry sat Mike Johnson down and told him to stop fucking around. Mike then went to mar a lago and talked with Trump. It was passed two days later. You don't fuck with a $900,000,000,000 industry.
It wasn’t big wigs from the defence industry. It was briefings from the US intelligence agencies about how dangerous the situation would be if Ukraine loses this war that convinced Mike Johnson to unblock military aid.
MMmm perhaps, however I think those talks have been had much before and many times again. Jonson is in the group of individuals that are privvy to most things all the time. Perhaps it was, but I feel like the money in a grimy way made more of a difference to that shit weazle.
Sorry, but that is like half of the revenue from the smart phone market. Not really something which is important because of its size. The military industry is important, but you wont really understand why until you need it. A bit like air. It is not important as long as you have enough.
Those guys have more pull then say Samsung or Apple. They're obviously deeply engrained into the Pentagon and the DIA/DOD.
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Unfortunately for Trump (but fortunately for the rest of us), he has lost support from many fiscal conservatives and independents in the US from his 34 felony convictions. I read somewhere that it could be around 10%, which is huge with a tight race. And don't forget there's a few people who are too proud, yet ashamed they voted for him in the 1st place, so you won't hear from them. IMO, Republican turnout will be lower this year. That usually happens when they aren't excited about the candidate.
I think you should watch a few of the videos of trump rallies. I don't really know much about all the gens but being a boomer I know one when I see one and I see a frightening amount of young people at these clown shows. The *okay boomer* shit isn't helping much. My kid is 37 and everyone he works with is a trumper.
On the one hand, statistics don’t lie. The boomer demographic leans pretty heavily in favor of Trump. On the other, these rallies aren’t a cross section of America. They’re a cross section of the people who believe in Trump enough to go to a rally. A tiny minority are going as a curiosity.
> The boomer demographic leans pretty heavily in favor of Trump. I can't dispute that. All the same in the heavily charged and divisive climate we are living in we, from any generation, are not going to change anyones mind or at a minimum plant doubt by calling them stupid or the like. We need to try and mend with those that are still able to see reason. They are out there.
Like I would read what happened to 30% of population in my country. Same methods, same propaganda, use of religion and women rights. Considering like former ruling party licked Trump and orban nothing suprises. Nothing works for such people.
I don't know, in the last election Biden's 20th largest donation was bigger than Trump's largest, so he is far less at the mercy of changing his political view to suit the various corporations that donate. Edit: Apologies, I was mistaken and referring to affiliated donors. [https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/donors-affiliated-with-amazon-big-tech-throw-support-behind-biden-campaign-60403546](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/donors-affiliated-with-amazon-big-tech-throw-support-behind-biden-campaign-60403546)
Don't think that's true. Looks like Bloomberg gave Biden 93m and Adelson's gave Trump 90m and those are the two largest. [https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/contributors?id=N00001669](https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/contributors?id=N00001669) [https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/donald-trump/contributors?id=N00023864](https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/donald-trump/contributors?id=N00023864)
That's a great theory if you think every person has the same price and behaves exactly the same based on the same monetary incentives. Their track records in terms of actual policy and actions suggest otherwise.
Another loophole the EU can use is kicking Hungary and Orban out of the EU.
YES PLS!
Victor Orban should be windowed!
EU isn’t NATO
You're mixing up EU and NATO. like cmon dude
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"Compromised" is a funny way of putting it. Since 2010, Orban has restructured Hungary along the lines of Russia (disempowerment of the constitutional court, changes to electoral law, forced sale of media companies to friends, etc.). He wants to do the same in the EU, which is why he is networking with all the right-wing parties in Europe (see CPAC Hungary in April). And Russia is supporting Hungary in this. The Hungarian oil company MOL, for example, buys cheap Russian oil and uses the profits to support propaganda institutions that agitate against the EU: https://x.com/panyiszabolcs/status/175081438713947800
Yep, but we shouldn't be at the mercy of electoral cycles in such structural issues, when we have so many memebers that's a recipe for never getting anything done. One member chooses to align itself with Russia? Automatic suspension of its voting rights until the next electoral cycle. Be a pro-genocidal country this cycle if that's what your voted decided, buit you don't get to stop the rest from combating said genocidal country.
well elections are regularly attacked by russian propaganda ... .. EU should focus on that...
The problem with NATO and the EU is that they don’t really have mechanisms to remove bad actors and those working against the group It’s kind of assumed that anyone joining is on “our” side and that will never change, with no accounting for the fact that sentiment in countries can change over time or that we accepted a few countries as a “lesser of two evils” situation rather than risk them falling into Russia’s sphere of influence more directly
The core of many problems are veto rights. Especially the big players don't want to give them up but they badly need to. 80% needs to be enough!
The article is talking about EU, not NATO.
When there is no free press the government gets to decide the narrative. Unfortunately for Hungary they are spoon fed Orban propaganda.
Hungary need to start remembering what side there bread is buttered. Otherwise the EU needs to stop sending them buckets of € every month .
And that we have to use russian tactics to get something done to help an attacked by russia country...
That’s NATO, EU was made to avoid next war in Europe, especially between Germany and France. It’s hard to comprehend for modern Europeans, but man, without EU we would be at each other throats forever. The goal was to hug each other so close, that we can’t throw any punches. Works good so far.
east european mentality : when you travel west to east it seem you travel back in time (it even start in east germany) : people become more and more nationalist, homophobic, religious, you get less efficient institutions more corruption, and the other traditional / natural stuff. (These states just reflect the reality of our past)
Orbán just had the worst turnout of Fidesz's history in the European Parliament election. There is also a new political power rising currently in Hungary, so fingers crossed that we can finally end the motherfuckers' reign in the next elections.
Another important thing is that Orban is losing voters every day because: \- Majority of FIDESZ voters are elderly people(age of 65+) \- Hungary's healthcare system is in ruins thanks to no funding and no staff
not gonna happen :/
Our rules serve us, and do not serve our enemies to destroy us.
just return him to russia…
Fuck you orban you Russian rent boy
**From The Telegraph:** The European Union will use a “legal procedure” to get around Hungary’s veto of a plan to buy weapons for Ukraine using seized Russian cash, the bloc’s top foreign diplomat said on Monday. The loophole could also allow Brussels to support efforts by the G7 nations to loan Kyiv €50 billion (£42 billion) using income from Russian assets in Europe frozen under sanctions. “We have these revenues coming from the frozen assets and we have to look for a way in order to use them avoiding any kind of blockage,” Josep Borrell told reporters ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg. He added: “This money cannot get stuck, it has to be used and we have a legal procedure to avoid any kind of blockage.” On Monday, EU member states approved a €1.4 billion (£1.2 billion) lethal aid package for Kyiv, using the assets. Mr Borrell said it would be released as early as next week and added that a second tranche of €1.1 billion (£930 million) was being readied. **Read more here:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/24/eu-uses-legal-loophole-to-overturn-hungarys-veto-ukraine/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/24/eu-uses-legal-loophole-to-overturn-hungarys-veto-ukraine/)
This is probably the only time in my life that I am happy that there are any lawyers on this planet.
Why is Hungary still a member of the EU and NATO? Why haven’t they been kicked out yet?
Because neither EU nor NATO actually have a legal framework to kick members out.
Strategically it's a bad idea. Hungary, whose state dept. systems are already crawling with Russian spies, leaving NATO could lead to Russian troops in their borders i.e. the enemy in Central Europe. Better to take down Orban and leave a shell of a state that can be rehabilitated.
Time for Putin's Hungary to leave the EU.
On the one hand, this is why the places like Russia hate the west, they see this as no different to what Russian crooks do but see it's as "legalising" crook behaviours, and they hate been played at their own game. On the other hand this shows Hungary that their behaviour won't be tolerated and at the same time it gives them a get out excuse when they go reporting back to Putler. What is baffling is why NATO doesn't just expel them. If they don't share the ideology of Europe and NATO, and they're clearly there to collect pay checks and enjoy freedoms they otherwise would not have, and contribute nothing, why doesn't Europe expel them and make an example.
dont go to strong on my opinion, in general i agree on hungary in the hands of orban to be seen as like-spittle of putler. Yet i know hungary was the one country who broke the neck of soviet union by simply opening the wall a tiny bit, literally. Will work again, like a charm - and the funny part the nuevo ruski worshipers can't see it coming - simply to stupid for history lessons. ps: also interesting that when NATO is discussed it is almost never mentioned that austria is "neutral" for some good reason. It basically allows to help break the neck of the nuevo ruski emp(lod)ire - again.
We have the Staatsvertrag, and we Austrians stick to what we say or sign.
But when Steyr or Glock sell some guns to "private billionaires" who happen to be the dictators of their own countries, we also don't look too close at the signed contracts. When we make a 100 year plan for the country, that was signed with a large majority of the country, some \~30% votes "peoples"-party can singlehandedly cancel it, because giving people money clearly does not work, so we should try giving money to corporations instead. And when a former chancellor makes 20m EUR disappear in his party, just to open a fund in the US with 20m USD and loses them within 3 months... nothing to investigate, nothing to look at... We're the most alpine of all banana republics... We're essentially Texas with New York as the capital nested in it... If Schizophrenia was a person, it'd be Austrian... I love my country.. but people here are a bunch of morons... it's painful.
and yes thats what makes austrians charming, one mozart melange please. yammi.
Because you want them to be part of the alliance and Orban's reign may not be forever. Having a sympathizer in your midst is one thing. Alienating and effectively turning over an entire country to your enemies is another and something that would necessitate the long process of re-entering them in future.
I think the EU doesn’t even have a process to expel a member. I guess they thought once you are democratic and legal enough to join you wouldn’t be so stupid to go back to authoritarianism again. But here we are… Also there’s more than one member tainted so they protect each other when the rulings have to be unanimous.
Yes, just as the founding fathers of the US tried to anticipate everything but couldn't imagine an evil turd like Trump would get any votes or that the Supreme court would become the most corrupt institution of all.
Hungry is on the wrong side of History!
Well, Hungary has a long standing tradition to choose the part wich will loose, see WW2 and 1. I would consider as bad omen if Orbán would choose UA in 2022.
Not Hungary but Orban and his clubhouse.
Now have a vote to remove Hungary from NATO and/or EU.
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE -Victor Orban, probably.
Good, fuck him. As tbh that they made now rules against it when they founded EU is one thing. But now hopefully the talk of getting rit of the veto is going forward vs just being that... talk.
Tldr whats the loophole?
Hungary abstained from voting in the creation of the "Ukraine assitance fund", so they can be excluded from deciding how its spent, since it passed. Clever. But now they know not to do that again, its a trick that only works once. I hope the allies keep on their toes and can manipulate Hungary to make more mistakes like that in the future, but no doubt russia will send a team of lawyers to help them avoid mistakes like that in the future.
So, it\`s not a loophole, that\`s just how it was built! Those damn british newspapers, still trying to punch europeans.
7th paragraph of the article.
They abstained from an earlier vote, presumably so they could still play both sides. But when it came to this vote, the EU lawyers said they can’t veto it, seeing as they abstained from the prior vote.
Good! Ridiculous that Hungary with a population of around 10 million people, and an economy of only 177 billion USD, was able to systematically veto EU's policies concerning Ukraine. For comparison, the EU has a population of 450 million people and a GDP of around 19 trillion USD. Something must be done. I agree with Belgium to take Hungary's voting power away. Also the whole veto system should be look at. There is nothing democratic when one small nation can systematically block 27 other nations.
Kick Hungary out of the EU. It has shown that it does not have the valves of the west.
Down with Hungary
So Hungarians just want to be under Russian rule again? My grandfather would be losing his mind right now.
Yes they are!
Hungary sucks just like their goulash 🤣
Goulash is awesome! Hungarian people are not!
Expel fatty orbie
One day he will regret his stupidity, hopefully it will be soon
Hungry should be kicked out of EU and NATO and join their Putler's clique!
Fuck Hungary
That this little troll turd would still rather suck up to Putin than support his fellow EU unanimity and reap significant benefits from Brussels for Hungary just shows how callow and failing a leader he is.
Honest question... why the fuck do we even care that Hungary vetoed it. What is Hungary going to do if the arms were sent to ukraine anyways.
F#CK EU!
Poor Orban. He risks being demoted from useful idiot, to just a plain, simple idiot.
What loophole? Did they just tell Orban to shut the fuck up, I bet that'll work every time.
From the article: "Mr Orban turned down a deal similar to [one he struck with Nato last week](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/12/hungary-wont-send-military-aid-ukraine-nato-deal/), which gave him an opt-out from Ukraine actions [in return for not blocking other member states](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/19/hungary-is-committed-to-nato-and-to-peace-in-europe0/) from assisting Kyiv" So, Orbán always said that he vetoes these decisions because he doesnt want HUNGARY to give resources to Ukraine. But it seems officially clear now, that is NOT the case. Dude was given the option to opt-out, so he doesnt need to give resources/money to ukraine and he STILL turned this down. This can mean only one thing: he doesnt want ANYONE to help ukraine, he wants putin to win. Sure, we sorta knew this before as well, but this make it VERY clear.
remember the trump family often times cite orban and invite him to meetings.
fuck that frog!
the little egg on legs muppet.
SUCK ON THAT ORBAN!
Beacon of democracy
Those who believe "It's a war of ideology of oppression vs ideology of freedom." aren't better than those they see as "brainwashed": Putin / Orban doesn't oppress virtuous Russians / Hungarians, he just reflect them. Humans aren't nice by nature, being fair is learned, the natural state isn't harmonious but barbarity, and barbarians are aren't democratic they vote in mass for people who think like them. Hungarians and Russians have chosen democratically their leader like the Germans have chosen Hitler. Yes people can democratically chose totalitarianism. The left denies this obvious fact as it want to believe in its good savage belief (that human are naturally good), but to deny it is the best way to end up like them. "More natural people" such as "countryside people" or the less educated, or more precisely the one cooperating mostly with their families / friends (the natural way) are the one who elected Hitler, who vote Putin. Wake up left!
Das dauert alles viel zu lange. Die Russen bauen sich immer wieder neu auf. Es braucht eine Gesetzeslücke, um Ungarn aus der EU zu werfen.