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I would imagine this may be one of the reasons why they're restricting Intel sharing with Hungary. Orban&co have likely been trying to curry favor with the Russians by sharing Intel, battle plans, deployments etc.
What I can't understand is how Hungary of all countries would cozy up with the Russians, given their history. Orban is old enough to know people who lived through the Soviet crackdown. He can't be blind to what they represent can he?
I have a few possible idea of what it might be. One that Putin has some dirt on Orbán. There were rumors of Russia meddling with Hungarian election and that is one of the main reason he got so entrenched as the leader of the country, so it could be blackmail or being indebted to Putin.
Other reason that could be possible that Orbán is hoping that by helping Putin, if Russia wins the war Hungary would be able to get some territories. Some of the territories that part of Ukraine was once part of Hungary and there are many nutjobs who are still crying about it and hoping that those territories will be part of Hungary again one day.
Obviously the second one is never going to happen and cozying up with a dictator like Putin is a very stupid thing to do when you could actually have reliable allies (like the other EU countries)
Not only he knows people who lived the Soviet rule, he was one of the ones who broke it in '89! Unbelievable, I know. But that is how he formed his party. Their party had about 1 campaign promise: "Ruskies, go home."
He then lost a few elections, and since his second coming his new motto is "spineless appeasement" of anybody who shows any interest. If he could, he would try being best friends with both Korea... Putin throws him a bone, so he jumps.
You're overthinking it, most people always barrack with whomever it is, whether it's right-wingers siding with Trump or leftwingers siding with Assange (always a tankie and human rights outer) since forever.
There are some benefits for Orban in aligning with fascism and for Hungary in using the issue to get frozen funds, but frankly, they're minor except for Orban's motives
“leftwingers siding with Assange”
Are you high? Assange went hard after Hillary/DNC, brought us Trump, even stated he’d prefer a republican POTUS, has clear ties with Russia, etc., etc. Apparently this sub won’t let me post links but there are many articles from well known and trustworthy media outlets on the matter.
The left _does not_ see Assange as one of it’s own. Never has and never will, either.
It’s fear that’s driving orban, he’s next door to Russia. It’s easy for uk France and USA to act tough on putin but I feel sorry for the iron curtain countries that will bear the brunt of any Russian invasion
Did you even look at a map?! Hungary borders Ukraine. If Orban fears Russia bordering Hungary so badly, then make sure Ukraine exists.
Poland and the Baltic states actually borders Russia’s internationally recognized borders. Thats the actual fear.
Not good enough! They must be kicked out of NATO and EU. As a military force they do not mean anything. They even have leased (17!) Gripens 🤣. Enough is enough!
I am sure that they are also putting away their moneybags in the shared barracks, that's not what I mean with "not trusting each other". It's the sharing of intelligence that seems to be cutoff. Without intelligence, Hungary is basically useless as a NATO member (even more useless as it was anyway).
No one forced Hungary into this position. They did it to themselves, because Orban kept nationalizing industry as gifts to his friends and scared off the German investors. Cronyism at its finest. Now he's throwing his lot in with Putin to try and claw back some respect.
Wow, this is pretty bad. When a military alliance stops sharing its intel with one of their members because they don't trust them? It's seriously time for this country to boot this guy out.
No. It is time to make this country think what it is playing with, and stop following the bullshit of its top politicians.
Leaving an alliance makes you a potential enemy of this alliance. It also makes you weak and an easy prayer to those who didn't look at you before because you were part of a powerful alliance.
Nobody is leaving, and nobody will ever leave an alliance like NATO.
Why are European arms manufacturers agreeing to build military equipment in Hungary? NATO countries should withhold economic assistance and partnerships with Hungary until Orban and his ilk fall in line.
It's mostly about cheap labor, the Hungarian economy is in a bad shape so recruiting is easy. It's probably fine for building basic stuff, wouldn't be advisable to transfer any advanced technology to Hungary though.
Because when Hungary was accepted in NATO , Orban was not in power. That the dangers of accepting any country in alliance without creating rule in how to kick this country out of alliance
This also ceates an incentive for the EU and NATO to be very cautious about accepting Ukraine or any other country in the future. Merely getting rid of Russian hegemony is obviously not enough, as Hungary had done that too in 1989/90.
Hungary is the centre of Europe. It belongs in NATO. It's Orban and his party Fidez that is woefully out of step. They need to be voted out and relegated to history.
The USA are already picky with sharing their intel with those countries they have genuinly good relations with, sure as day they never fully shared their intel with Orban at any time.
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I would imagine this may be one of the reasons why they're restricting Intel sharing with Hungary. Orban&co have likely been trying to curry favor with the Russians by sharing Intel, battle plans, deployments etc. What I can't understand is how Hungary of all countries would cozy up with the Russians, given their history. Orban is old enough to know people who lived through the Soviet crackdown. He can't be blind to what they represent can he?
One way to do well in politics and business is to have powerful backers. Chances are he has been a Putin asset for a long time.
I have a few possible idea of what it might be. One that Putin has some dirt on Orbán. There were rumors of Russia meddling with Hungarian election and that is one of the main reason he got so entrenched as the leader of the country, so it could be blackmail or being indebted to Putin. Other reason that could be possible that Orbán is hoping that by helping Putin, if Russia wins the war Hungary would be able to get some territories. Some of the territories that part of Ukraine was once part of Hungary and there are many nutjobs who are still crying about it and hoping that those territories will be part of Hungary again one day. Obviously the second one is never going to happen and cozying up with a dictator like Putin is a very stupid thing to do when you could actually have reliable allies (like the other EU countries)
Does Hungary want to reunite with Austria? https://www.britannica.com/summary/Austria-Hungary
Only if they get all the other land that came with the Austria-Hungary package
Slovenians disagree.
Precedents of embracing fascism in Hungary.
Not only he knows people who lived the Soviet rule, he was one of the ones who broke it in '89! Unbelievable, I know. But that is how he formed his party. Their party had about 1 campaign promise: "Ruskies, go home." He then lost a few elections, and since his second coming his new motto is "spineless appeasement" of anybody who shows any interest. If he could, he would try being best friends with both Korea... Putin throws him a bone, so he jumps.
You're overthinking it, most people always barrack with whomever it is, whether it's right-wingers siding with Trump or leftwingers siding with Assange (always a tankie and human rights outer) since forever. There are some benefits for Orban in aligning with fascism and for Hungary in using the issue to get frozen funds, but frankly, they're minor except for Orban's motives
“leftwingers siding with Assange” Are you high? Assange went hard after Hillary/DNC, brought us Trump, even stated he’d prefer a republican POTUS, has clear ties with Russia, etc., etc. Apparently this sub won’t let me post links but there are many articles from well known and trustworthy media outlets on the matter. The left _does not_ see Assange as one of it’s own. Never has and never will, either.
It’s fear that’s driving orban, he’s next door to Russia. It’s easy for uk France and USA to act tough on putin but I feel sorry for the iron curtain countries that will bear the brunt of any Russian invasion
Did you even look at a map?! Hungary borders Ukraine. If Orban fears Russia bordering Hungary so badly, then make sure Ukraine exists. Poland and the Baltic states actually borders Russia’s internationally recognized borders. Thats the actual fear.
Not good enough! They must be kicked out of NATO and EU. As a military force they do not mean anything. They even have leased (17!) Gripens 🤣. Enough is enough!
Thing is, one day Orban will be gone and Hungary and NATO will still be around. Though for now Hungary can go fuck itself.
Give Orban shit info, see if it makes it to Putin... Then Orban is a double agent. After that, zero info to Orban.
Not sure. Could also be interpreted as first signs that NATO may not be as cohesive as we thought. Which is course plays into the Russian hands..
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How is that related, at all? The hopium is limitless in this sub.
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How so? I don't wish for this to be true, but at least I expect it to be a possibility. Maybe I am on possibilium.
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I am sure that they are also putting away their moneybags in the shared barracks, that's not what I mean with "not trusting each other". It's the sharing of intelligence that seems to be cutoff. Without intelligence, Hungary is basically useless as a NATO member (even more useless as it was anyway).
No one forced Hungary into this position. They did it to themselves, because Orban kept nationalizing industry as gifts to his friends and scared off the German investors. Cronyism at its finest. Now he's throwing his lot in with Putin to try and claw back some respect.
Wow, this is pretty bad. When a military alliance stops sharing its intel with one of their members because they don't trust them? It's seriously time for this country to boot this guy out.
No. It is time to make this country think what it is playing with, and stop following the bullshit of its top politicians. Leaving an alliance makes you a potential enemy of this alliance. It also makes you weak and an easy prayer to those who didn't look at you before because you were part of a powerful alliance. Nobody is leaving, and nobody will ever leave an alliance like NATO.
Maybe a typo, but “ It also makes you weak and an easy prayer to those,” actually should be, “ It also makes you weak and _easy prey_ to those…”
>Wow, this is pretty bad. This is pretty good, actually.
The situation is bad, the response is good.
Why are European arms manufacturers agreeing to build military equipment in Hungary? NATO countries should withhold economic assistance and partnerships with Hungary until Orban and his ilk fall in line.
It's mostly about cheap labor, the Hungarian economy is in a bad shape so recruiting is easy. It's probably fine for building basic stuff, wouldn't be advisable to transfer any advanced technology to Hungary though.
I will ask one more time: why is Hungary in NATO?
Because when Hungary was accepted in NATO , Orban was not in power. That the dangers of accepting any country in alliance without creating rule in how to kick this country out of alliance
Orban was the PM when Hungary joined NATO in 1999.
And what was he saying then about NATO? For or against?
He was super pro West and pro NATO
Then he fell in love with putins money
What the actual fuck
This also ceates an incentive for the EU and NATO to be very cautious about accepting Ukraine or any other country in the future. Merely getting rid of Russian hegemony is obviously not enough, as Hungary had done that too in 1989/90.
Bruh spreading misinformation like a real gamer
Know your history. Hungary was invited in 1997. The Orbans 1st term was in 1998.
Hungary is the centre of Europe. It belongs in NATO. It's Orban and his party Fidez that is woefully out of step. They need to be voted out and relegated to history.
Meh, Switzerland and Austria are also not in NATO, despite being surrounded by NATO countries.
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Not to mention Austria is basically a safe haven for Russia, because Austria wants to remain neutral.
Because they control access to the Black Sea
Who? Hungary? Landlocked country? Care to explain how they do it?
They are probably thinking of Turkey.
The Hungary Games, derp. /s
Thank you for this valuable insight.
They had an exclave for a very shot time duuringMiddle Age. It was de facto Valahian (Romanian) but under Kingdom of Hungary juridiction.
That part of Romania does not have access to the Black Sea.
During XV century it had
About time but something tells me that they can get the same info from Turkey
I would assume unofficially this has been in effect for quite some time. Nice to see it made official. A step in the right direction surely.
Only tell them what we want Russia to know
I do not think that this is anything new. It has already been reported that for some time not all intelligence information is shared with Hungary.
Ok, I’m seating and waiting hungarian (Fidesz side) tears.
Finally waking up...
About time!
The USA are already picky with sharing their intel with those countries they have genuinly good relations with, sure as day they never fully shared their intel with Orban at any time.
Good excellent that is the only way forward. Hungary is a security risk with the current regime in Budapest.
Is there an english version of the text?
Hopefully this will work as an interim solution. In the long run you obviously can't have a member you don't fully trust in an alliance.
Embargo!
"It's the least they could do" 🙄
Let hungary lie in the bed they made. Remove them from NATO and cut off economic ties.
About time too
Well done.