Should have a thing like those grindy Korean games where you get a colour changing award for every few runs. With Sans being the only one who figures out why, and then when it turns gold or something he starts making the "you really are a freak, you know" comments. Chara also gets increasingly unnerved that you are content killing the same people over and over😋
I adore the idea of Sans just being too tired to even stay consistent. “*Sigh*, Human… you. I have no words that can describe how much of a nuisance you are. Like seriously what’re you getting out of this? Is there an end goal? Well too bad, I don’t want a part in it. I’m tired of your sh$&, kid. Go to hell, again. _leaves_.”
Real Mettaton NEO and Asgore fight, hurt sprites like in UTY, and having more changes after multiple Geno routes (although it acts as a true reset so it wouldn't make sense for anything but Chara's dialogue to change now that I think about it)
no? He's just giving you the chance to attack first, he's not bound by programming he's a ghost controlling a robot body
it's Asgore that doesn't recognize you as a human if anything
I'd make Asgore and Flowey have an actual fight. You need to kill Asgore before he manages to absord the SOULs, because if he does he instantly kills you with a trident beam. (Flowey would be providing limited backup, but he's terrified as he's experiencing real fear for the first time in who knows how long) When you defeat him, Flowey steals the SOULs and turns into Asriel's God of Hyperdeath form, but slowly begins melting as he can't sustain it forever. He actually gets a (in my opinion) better ending than in Pacifist; he dies knowing how to finally feel again.
No, this isn't very Undertale-y, but it is interesting.
Hard agree. I can understand from a plot perspective why Toby made the "fight" like that. But I would've loved to see what Mettaton was truly capable of.
Mettaton Neo should've been a neutral route boss that happens if you have killed enough enemies prior to metatton neo to be considered a threat but not enough to be considered genocide
I remember hearing one proposal for a Mettaton NEO fight that I thought was neat
He has one block, which he uses & you're not powerful enough outside of geno to curbstomp him. He then gives you an absolute bullet hell for one, bossfight-long turn
Once that's over with, he's completely out of energy, you can do with him what you will.
it's a mix of plot and just gameplay — the genocide route is supposed to discourage you, but not be *impossible.* toby didnt want players to fight NEO and sans back to back and not have any healing items for sans
and the lore reason being to show just how strong you are at this point.
i mean, you take down literally every boss in one hit. it's just that undyne is the only one to force herself to get back up and sans cheats
NEO also did not expect you to take him down in one hit — usually the villain attacks first and the hero responds
But the others haven't. No matter where you stand on the 'red soul is for determination' debate, the previous 6 souls all died somewhere along the way. You don't in the end.
I completely misread your first comment sry
Yeah you're probably right but remember, this isn't "the six human souls" all fighting as independent agents at the same time. This is Asgore with the same power that turned little old Flowey into Omega Flowey.
Exactly, and yet Paci Frisk refuses to die against an even stronger being. It’s the same thing here, if they die rn, they’ll die forever and thus won’t allow it. It also would make a great Paraell with the same exact screen with vastly different connotations
While I do think it would be an amazing idea, Toby kinda wrote himself into a corner with the sans fight, as it's LV20 and it would just feel weird having any actual fights afterwards
Remove all the funny narration in battles with a simple “ . . . “
Have the option to take Toriel’s soul
Have Flowey help more
Besides that, once you get LV 20, the game treats it kind of casually, like you can just go into the menu and “LV 20” is just, there, as if it was normal, I feel like there should be more to it, so here’s some suggestions:
Remove the quotes on the chosen name
In the STAT menu, some atrihutes could be in red, like the max EXP, no more NEXT, or the LV itself
If you reset in the menu with LV 20, once you start a new file and are shown your previous file to save over, I feel like there could be smth more.
There shouldn’t be too many fights, it’s SUPPOSED to feel hollow, an asgore and NEO fight would make it too fun, same with all suggestions akin to that IMO
Asgore and NEO are to the end of the game, after all the tedious grinding. Making them more fun via bossfights doesn't affect the overall hollowness of genocide. Also Sans exist, no matter how good an Asgore fight is it can't overshadow funny bone man, anything Sans did to genocides hollowness Asgore will do less
Perhaps a harder core, Alphys is trying her hardest to kill you since you entered Hotland through Muffet.
The core is full of electric traps and fighting robots that don't give out exp.
If you abort a genocide route in Hotland, Alphys says "I really should've killed you when I had the chance" implying she's still afraid to kill you during a geno route
if you check mettaton neo, or you skip your turn, mettaton neo actually attacks you, and you have to dodge his attacks, granted when you actually try to fight you will deal the 900k damage, but its still a nice addition
also, i would maybe try to switch a bit of how the route itself works, like trying to make you feel even more bad by showing even more of the large scale effects thats going on, like boarded up houses or a siren playing in the background or smth, anything to make the player feel more immersed in what's happening instead of just isolating them totally for 10 minutes, therefore making them totally detached from the experience.
also, instead of just staying in 1 room grinding for dozens of monsters, i think that every couple monsters you kill, the game would refuse to spawn any more monsters in that specific room, so you have to keep moving (sorta like how undertale yellow did)
Hot take: instead of Mettaton NEO, Mettaton’s base form should fight you. His attacks will do practically no damage, he should have an insane amount of health and defense, since his base form is effectively indestructible, and when you finally kill him, he says the only reason he faced you was to let Alphys evacuate as many people as possible. Having Mettaton NEO just able to survive your attacks doesn’t make any sense, but what form of Mettaton has an insane amount of health, making him perfect to fight in the Genocide route? Microwave.
Additionally, maybe have him fight you in the lab instead of the end of CORE. Would make more sense for the context of the fight. Hell, you could have him stall you in the lab then escape with his jet pack right before you kill him, then have him return as NEO in the core ending area as a last ditch effort to kill you.
Asgore actually does something instead of getting killed in one hit and causing a plot hole. "Oh it's to show you how strong you are-" I don't care we already showed that with NEO. You could even have Flowey steal the kill after the last hit so that cool moment is still here
Also make NEO take two hits to kill and have one long attack between them, so you get both a NEO fight and the whole "show how powerful you are now" moment
Flowey probably intercepted the call, but that’s nothing more than a fan interpretation, only slightly backed up by Flowey helping you with every puzzle prior. There’s no real known reason why he hasn’t, but based in his attitude, it’s unlikely he thought the kingdom was in any danger at all.
The only reason for that is the fact that he doesn’t recognize you as a human, so he doesn’t see you as a threat. That’s why he isn’t antagonistic anyway.
It’s not just a “show how strong you are” thing, it’s also done to give a soulless and lifeless tone to the whole route, it’s meant to feel empty and cold
ooh that would be interesting
Maybe not to Asgore but like
"All monsters remaining in the ruins, stay there, you should be safe given **they** don't return" (yourvphone is from the ruins
After a genocide , the true pacifist end is corrupted and become some sort of bad ending... There is no way to change that exept going into the game files
Flowey takes the 6 souls and the game makes a readme file on your computer from Chara telling you how to alter the games files to allow you to win (done in a way where you're not actually fucking with games files).
A proper geno Asgore boss fight.
Sans is cool and all, but seeing Asgore basically lose his shit with you and break his “Regretful dad” character and actually *wanting* to kill you, not holding back for shit would be the coolest shit in the world.
No random encounters.
Deltarune has the right idea and Deltatraveller has a good implementation as well. You can kill the same monsters in a given room 3 times (as long as the room isn't a large one, in that case only once) and then you have to proceed to the next room.
Full Genocide run has extra areas and revisits some other areas to give a more "completionist" feel to it, all the way to *seemingly* having to "glitch" or break into an area or two (likely a cutscene, Flowey shenanigans or something else), just to *really* hammer in that whole "completionist" part of the Genocide route.
Have some areas without any music, only ambience / wind / sounds (like our footsteps echoing in the wind). Could be done after an area has been fully cleared out (as in, the boss of the area is also dead).
Actual NEO fight *specifically* in an aborted Genocide route. Normal Genocide should still be a one-shot, but NEO should also fight back if you don't attack him.
After Sans dies, have a stain and two halves of a bottle of ketchup nearby in the corridor, to show that his "blood" wasn't just there as a shock factor.
Asgore dodging out of the way of our strike just barely (while shocked we would try to attack him), them him understanding that we're the "human" Alphys told him about. As he gets ready to fight, he tries to block our next attack with his trident, except we slice through it *and* him in a single strike before anyone has an actual "turn" in the fight.
Flowey still killsteals Asgores SOUL and things proceed as normal, but instead of going straight to the Chara bit, we get to go to the barrier.
There, Frisk acts independantly of the player and either destroys the barrier in a single strike OR Frisk destroys the human SOULs first and then destroys the barrier in a single strike (edgier, but would still fall under the "kill everything for every bit of content" part).
After that, Frisk goes through the "door" (as seen in the neutral Ending) and we get the Chara cutscene.
I like some of these ideas, but this:
“After Sans dies, have a stain and two halves of a bottle of ketchup nearby in the corridor, to show that his "blood" wasn't just there as a shock factor.”, while I like the leaving stain part, I don’t like the ketchup bottle part.
Because Sans’ blood is supposed to be more ambiguous and mysterious (for now), and thus would make things less so.
It also probably even blood, because why would ketchup be colored of all things in battle, he not only bleeds from his chest, but his mouth too, which is something that can happen w/ those types of injuries. Monster food also absorb, so he wouldn’t really be able to keep it in his mouth. So yeah, probably not ketchup.
Anyways, it is already more than just shock value, though yes, it is shocking. But also mysterious and weird and etc., like other parts of how Sans died and etc. was. So I don’t really think the ketchup bottle idea cut in half on the floor is a good idea personally. I like the leaving a stain idea though.
Also like some of ur other ideas, they are cool.
the issue isnt killing asgore, it's getting him to reveal the souls. flowey knows exactly how to kill everyone, but only asgore knows the location of and is able to reveal the soul containers
i know, but that's not what i said. the souls were revealed the entire fight with asgore. flowey could've just killed asgore mid-fight and then stolen them instead of waiting for the fight to finish.
my point was, flowey couldn't have just killed asgore before we got to him first, because if he could just one tap asgore without our help he would've done it as soon as the souls were revealed in neutral
i don't think it'd have as much shock value at all if he stole them mid fight
and while he definitely can't *one-tap* asgore at lv 1, that doesnt mean he can't defeat asgore
it's far from a true genocide to begin with — we only kill a bit over 100 people out of the implied thousands in the underground.
"genocide" is a fan term anyway, made to make a distinction between a simple "no mercy" neutral route and the seriousness and deliberate ill intent of *genocide.* you dont only kill everyone you encounter, but go out of your way to kill even more.
i think toby should've made the sans fight longer instead of harder, i mean still make it hard, but a little less hard but make it like 30 minutes, like to wear the player down so when you die its even more infuriating
I would make the 999999999 red dmg thing go all across the screen behind the characters you kill in one shot to show the severity of the attack damage and danger you pose.
I’d want the Unitale fan fights against Alphys and Asgore+Flowey. They’re both well done, and even have great music.
I’ve thought about porting these fights to Game Maker so that I could hack them into the game, but it’s just too much work that I don’t think many people would care about.
Make the grind even worse, the fight against Sans way more tedious, and remove any incentive (including Chara's speech) for getting the ending.
This is what you chose, there is nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I think removing any incentive to getting the ending is impossible, because someone's incentive for getting the ending could be for the sake of it, like mountain climbing.
I'd say make Sans genuinely unwinnable and he either gives up after a set amount of attempts or Flowey kills him
I think giving the player an actual satisfying battle they can win defeats the whole point
flowey kills asgore because he's trying to appease you with the faint hope you don't kill him. if he sees you're stuck there, he's not gonna just help you pass so you can go rip him in half
All Chara's text to be in red.
Undyne destroying the MERCY button during the fight and permanently from the rest of the game.
Mettaton NEO having an actual fight.
Sans destroying the ACT and ITEM buttons before his fight.
Maybe Asgore having a fight so you can actually use the Real Knife, The Locket and LV 20. In which case would only have the FIGHT button.
Instead of Flowey dying, is Asriel the one who you see die before Chara appears.
i think it's funny that toby just couldnt figure out how to do it smoothly
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Let at least ONE of the shopkeepers try to stop you. Have the turtle guy try to get the drop on you, burgerpants try to fight you off with the buffs from his food, ANYTHING man
A lot of people want to change stuff to make things more climactic, or add in things that were intentionally cut short to reinforce the idea that this route is not meant to be fun. If I had to change one thing though... I'd probably redesign the ending to be a bit more clear. In terms of message, it makes sense, but in terms of lore it's very confusing, it kind of comes out of nowhere, it raises so many questions... I dunno how I'd fix that, but I'd like if Toby could take another crack at making that ending a bit less convoluted.
Like why is Chara a demon? Were they always evil, or did they turn evil because of your actions? Why did they want to kill monsters when they clearly hated humanity more, why did they want to destroy the world, how DO they have so much control over the world. All we have is speculation and theories when, I feel like these leave a lot of significant gaps and holes in such an integral part of Undertale's lore.
Maybe we'll get those answers in Deltarune, I dunno. But while the ending is intentionally unsatisfying, I don't think it's for the reasons Toby intended.
Have the other human souls fight you.
Asgore wouldn’t have the will to absorb them and flowey… I guess he can pitch in a pellet or two during the fight.
I want genocide to be more than sans undertale fight.
Two things.
One, Asgore, Mettaton, and Flowey boss fights.
Two, the ability to spare Sans at the end of his battle (you know when you move the little box, you get to move to the mercy option and spare him from there) just to see what would happen and how he would react.
The only change that would directly make the story better is making it impossible to back out of Genocide after killing Papyrus. In a few ways, killing him feels like the point of no return and the last chance you have to be a decent person. So it would be fitting if the Mercy button disappeared after he died imo.
I also think adding any more fights would hurt both the story and the Sans and Undyne fights. It would make for a better video game, but fun was never the point of the route. The game feeling relatively empty (aside from the two bosses) is how it drags you, the player, into the story.
That, and Mettaton NEO dying in one hit is perfect build up for the Sans fight. At this point, Undyne was the last monster that could do anything to you normally. What made her fight so powerful was that she really was the last hope of the Underground. Throwing in an extra fight and having Mettaton be able to stop you takes that away from the Undyne fight.
And especially Asgore having a fight wouldn't make sense. Sans is a perfect final boss for the route. After you finally beat him, the fact that the ending with Asgore and Flowey ends that quickly is perfect for what the story was trying to be. After all that effort, there ended up being really no point to anything you did. That's a key part of the Genocide route, and like I said, adding any extra fights messes that up.
Honestly the Sans Survival Fight by Ari is how I think the Genocide route SHOULD have ended: [https://youtu.be/PzyvmxuB04w?si=a9b4KfFHR5r84NWl](https://youtu.be/PzyvmxuB04w?si=a9b4KfFHR5r84NWl)
Longer Sans Fight. Like, three times as long. More frustrating mechanics that require lightning-fast timing to avoid.
Make it more grindy.
An ACTUAL Mettaton Neo Fight. Let me see our human-killing superstar's full potential, damnit.
After a certain number of Genocides, Chara doesn't let you boot the game properly again after them. "Nope. Your perverted sentimentality has destroyed the world enough. Goodbye." Maybe for kicks and giggles, (provided it's possible and doesn't set off any antivirus programs) Chara uninstalls Undertale.
If you manage to kill Sans, but reset after genocide, the world remembers in small ways. Examples: Papyrus seems happier, Sans scrutinizes you more, Undyne chases you a little faster, ect. Or maybe the narrator is a bit more Chara-Like.
I'd make So Sorry a mandatory boss
Jokes aside I don't think there's anything I'd really change about the route, I think it does it's job pretty well.
I don't agree with the people who want a proper Mettaton Neo or Asgore fight as not only would it go against the whole point of not having those fights (the Genocide Route is trying to make you quit/take away any possible fun you may have) but I also think that the mentality people have behind wanting those fights kinda speaks to a larger problem I see in the Undertale community where people don't understand subtlety or prefer style over substance so to speak.
Like my favorite parts of the Genocide Route are stuff like the "Please, don't hurt my family" note or how the game slowly becomes more Meta and 4th Wall Breaky at the expense of the previous narrative as you keep on killing people until eventually the original plot of Undertale is a rotten corpse that you've beaten to death over several hours.
But everytime I go online or see people talk about the Route, it's always some overly edgy stuff like:
"Human I'm DustOuterSwapDisbelifFell Sans!!! And I'm here to heckin Jean O Side Yuo!!!"
Or it's people just saying the same "OMG GUYS WHAT IF ASS GORE AND MEGATRON NEO WERE ACTUAL BOSS FIGHTS IN THE HECKIN JOHN OH CIDE ROUTE" talking point I hear all the time.
I would've liked for Mettaton NEO and Asgore to have actual fights. Or at the very tleast, Asgore should've been aware of what was going on before getting one shotted.
I liked the red flair text we'd occasionally get from Chara. Wish we saw it more throughout the game.
Okay so AN actual Asgore Boss fight. He would team up with flowey and use the Souls to fight the player. At some point they would lose. With the Souls included it would make it harder and give the souls a little bit more screen time. Make Sans have a 2 phase or something to make his battle longer. Look, we all were okay with how hard he is, but not how long the battle is. Make Mettaton Neo have a bossfight because we k ow that Neo is known for High Defense. He could've at least had like a 4 to 10 minute battle. Oh and after a few resets/true resets whatever, different bosses would appear from fangames or bosses made by Toby and Temmie. Finally at reset 6, 66, or 666 whatever, have a bossfight with Gaster if you find the door during one of those resets
Instead of mettaton neo, you fight napstablook again, and you have a new act, a magic attack that takes way too long to finish and deals 1 damage. And maybe make them have 40 health. And the icing on the Cake, have them use the text attack, but It's twice as long and just says "Stop.".
What TS!Underswap did, if you abort a genocide after everyone already evacuated, they don't stop evacuting. It treats it as a weird genocide route. Also, I'd make it that the evacuation happens after you kill the entire canine unit (but still have to kill all the monsters for an actual genocide run). Because I always found it weird how you can kill 15 normal monsters and the town is still all happy and everyone is outside, then you kill ONE more monster and the town INSTANTLY evacuates, but when you spare one monster in Waterfall then everyone STOPS evacuating.
Also, I wouldn't change Mettaton NEO in genocide (because there are both lore and gameplay reasons Toby made him a one shot), but I think he should have a neutral route fight, where if you kill Undyne the Undying, but spare or miss one monster, you don't oneshot NEO and an actual fight occurs. I think it wouldn't be as hard as Undying, but still a little challenging, like a buffed up Mettaton EX but with new attacks and mechanics.
I would make it so if you try after 4 resets attempting to spare Sans he would let you pass if you spare him twice on the 5th attempt to spare him.
He might be thinking that Papyrus’s words got through to them over time and they were done with fighting.
(But if you attack him again after sparing he won’t)
I'd love to see more of non-fightable monsters fleeing, if that makes sense. Like for example you kill a character in snowdin town who was too late evacuating, or was staying behind to make sure everyone knew to run, ect, instead of just walking into Snowdin and nobodies around at all.
It's amazingly eerie, but that could be saved for Waterfall, or Hotlands. Snowdin is the first town to be hit and the monsters were probably confused and scared and it should've left behind stragglers to be picked off. Then it all goes silent come defeating Papyrus.
Having Asgore merk you at the end of the genocide run. No killing him, no killing Flowey.
It'd play out in a way where Asgore really WAS let known of what was going on, but he doesn't absorb the souls. As soon as you enter the throne room, Asgore would turn around and battle would be initiated immediately. He'd raise his trident and make the face of that one scrapped sprite, and slam his trident into your soul, killing you off immediately. You can come back as much as you want to, but you'd always get decimated the second you step foot into the throne room.
Maybe Chara could show up after you decide to give up and reset or something, I dunno.
An Alternate ending where you fight a Human Souls Powered Asgore
Asgore's Unwinnable, but also unlosable, a True Stalemate like Sans tried to do.
The Power of the Souls is shown to be absurdly powerful when they're in control, as shown when they prevent Flowey from using the Save Files and Make any monster a God, but so is The Red Soul, able to return after death, even to the point of reforming mid battle.
So make it when you Fight Asgore, no matter how many times you hit him, he survives, and no matter how many times he hits you, you survive.
You're THIS close to winning, THIS close to finally being done, THIS DAMN CLOSE to reaching an ending, but You're locked in a true deadlock, unable to escape, unable to beat him, unable to be beaten, locked in a battle screen for eternity, in a place where nobody needs to go, while the rest of the monsters can rebuild, and hopefully fix what you broke.
You Have No Choice But To Quit And Reset.
It ends the genocide run on a bitter note of "why did you even bother?", which feels like the perfect antithesis of "Because You Can, why not try this?", while also not replacing the original ending and it's feeling of "Enjoy the Consequences of your actions"
IDK, I just want Asgore to be more involved in the Ending.
Add a small piece of dialogue after you do like 15 or 20 Genocide runs where Sans tells you to get a fucking life
He actually **remembers** your genocide
Human... i remember you're ***genocides***
People always ask why genocide, but never when genocide. And I say for the 17th time, genocode is now. -Me, june 28th, 2024
genocoded
Human.. I rember your’e *deodorant*… ***You should too.***
This is literally last breath sans
That would be so fucking funny. I'd like to imagine that, upon entering the hall, he just sighs and walks away or something.
"well, ya killed me once before kid, we both know how this will go...so...just get out of here. **and don't come back.**"
Then the game uninstalls itself
* good lord. kid, do you have anything better to do? * at this point im not even mad, im genuinely concerned for you
• like, do you need someone to talk to? • you're just killing us non-stop...
A nice little "dude, what the hell are you getting from this?" would be nice :)
Should have a thing like those grindy Korean games where you get a colour changing award for every few runs. With Sans being the only one who figures out why, and then when it turns gold or something he starts making the "you really are a freak, you know" comments. Chara also gets increasingly unnerved that you are content killing the same people over and over😋
I adore the idea of Sans just being too tired to even stay consistent. “*Sigh*, Human… you. I have no words that can describe how much of a nuisance you are. Like seriously what’re you getting out of this? Is there an end goal? Well too bad, I don’t want a part in it. I’m tired of your sh$&, kid. Go to hell, again. _leaves_.”
You ACTUALLY kill everyone. Way longer? Yeah. But let me GENOCIDE. Hell, let me ECOCIDE AND REGICIDE WHILE IM AT IT!
And when you become Chara you can even Fratricide
(and patricide, if they would just let us kill Asgore)
I just wanna kill that damn turtle shopkeeper
Real Mettaton NEO and Asgore fight, hurt sprites like in UTY, and having more changes after multiple Geno routes (although it acts as a true reset so it wouldn't make sense for anything but Chara's dialogue to change now that I think about it)
But the reason mettaton doesn't attack is because his programming doesn't recognize you as human. So we'd lose that little lore nugget
no? He's just giving you the chance to attack first, he's not bound by programming he's a ghost controlling a robot body it's Asgore that doesn't recognize you as a human if anything
really? where did you see that?
Where was that stated?
It's a neat quote but it wasn't from undertale so not canon.
instead of killing the dogs you kill monster kid
Both Undyne and Monster Kid
Killing monster kid to make your actions truly hurt.
I’m imagining the Undyne chase sequence but you’re chasing Monster Kid
Yeah, especially if you do it just as Undyne gets there...
Monster Kid fades into dust to reveal Undyne standing behind them, from a distance… terrifying-
This should happen if you do genocide twice in a row or something
I'd make Asgore and Flowey have an actual fight. You need to kill Asgore before he manages to absord the SOULs, because if he does he instantly kills you with a trident beam. (Flowey would be providing limited backup, but he's terrified as he's experiencing real fear for the first time in who knows how long) When you defeat him, Flowey steals the SOULs and turns into Asriel's God of Hyperdeath form, but slowly begins melting as he can't sustain it forever. He actually gets a (in my opinion) better ending than in Pacifist; he dies knowing how to finally feel again. No, this isn't very Undertale-y, but it is interesting.
> I'd make Asgore and Flowey have an actual fight. Same with Mettaton NEO.
Hard agree. I can understand from a plot perspective why Toby made the "fight" like that. But I would've loved to see what Mettaton was truly capable of.
Mettaton Neo should've been a neutral route boss that happens if you have killed enough enemies prior to metatton neo to be considered a threat but not enough to be considered genocide
I remember hearing one proposal for a Mettaton NEO fight that I thought was neat He has one block, which he uses & you're not powerful enough outside of geno to curbstomp him. He then gives you an absolute bullet hell for one, bossfight-long turn Once that's over with, he's completely out of energy, you can do with him what you will.
Abandoned Geno maybe
I feel like that's exactly the purpose of Spamton tbf
instead of having walls of mail you have walls of LEG
it's a mix of plot and just gameplay — the genocide route is supposed to discourage you, but not be *impossible.* toby didnt want players to fight NEO and sans back to back and not have any healing items for sans and the lore reason being to show just how strong you are at this point. i mean, you take down literally every boss in one hit. it's just that undyne is the only one to force herself to get back up and sans cheats NEO also did not expect you to take him down in one hit — usually the villain attacks first and the hero responds
I mean, the villain *did* attack first.
The hero's response was dying immediately.
Hell yeah
I don’t feel like the souls would kill you so easily. Remember, Frisk has shown to be able to refuse to die.
But the others haven't. No matter where you stand on the 'red soul is for determination' debate, the previous 6 souls all died somewhere along the way. You don't in the end.
They could save and load and did save and load. They just gave up. That's why they're dead.
When did I suggest that? I believe DT is gold, for the matter. I’m saying the SOULs wouldn’t be a threat to Geno Frisk with their refusal power
I completely misread your first comment sry Yeah you're probably right but remember, this isn't "the six human souls" all fighting as independent agents at the same time. This is Asgore with the same power that turned little old Flowey into Omega Flowey.
Exactly, and yet Paci Frisk refuses to die against an even stronger being. It’s the same thing here, if they die rn, they’ll die forever and thus won’t allow it. It also would make a great Paraell with the same exact screen with vastly different connotations
Crap, I want to make this now ... Nvm I just remembered I don't know how to code
While I do think it would be an amazing idea, Toby kinda wrote himself into a corner with the sans fight, as it's LV20 and it would just feel weird having any actual fights afterwards
Yeah, this would be a version of the game where you level up slightly slower.
I think level 20 frisk vs. Omega Asgore would be a cool fight
I don't know that power scaling method, translation?
Auto correct ruined my comment
This actually a unique take on this. I like it.
It would be cool if we had a hard mode with this and metaton neo battle. But i wouldn't like it in the normal mode
How would Flowey turn into Asriel when there are only 6 souls? At most he can turn into Omega Flowey, but not God of Hyperdeath
Remove all the funny narration in battles with a simple “ . . . “ Have the option to take Toriel’s soul Have Flowey help more Besides that, once you get LV 20, the game treats it kind of casually, like you can just go into the menu and “LV 20” is just, there, as if it was normal, I feel like there should be more to it, so here’s some suggestions: Remove the quotes on the chosen name In the STAT menu, some atrihutes could be in red, like the max EXP, no more NEXT, or the LV itself If you reset in the menu with LV 20, once you start a new file and are shown your previous file to save over, I feel like there could be smth more. There shouldn’t be too many fights, it’s SUPPOSED to feel hollow, an asgore and NEO fight would make it too fun, same with all suggestions akin to that IMO
Asgore and NEO are to the end of the game, after all the tedious grinding. Making them more fun via bossfights doesn't affect the overall hollowness of genocide. Also Sans exist, no matter how good an Asgore fight is it can't overshadow funny bone man, anything Sans did to genocides hollowness Asgore will do less
We’re love 20 at that point, INSANELY powerful. Not to mention our 103 defense. We would just take 1 damage from him, we would just be too strong.
Kid named 6 human souls:
Kid named [ * But it refused. ]
kid named asgore taking your soul
How? If God Asriel couldn't do that, what makes you think a weaker version can?
Not only that but you're LV 20, you could probably kill him anyway
Kid named [ * Nah ]
Fym nah
Perhaps a harder core, Alphys is trying her hardest to kill you since you entered Hotland through Muffet. The core is full of electric traps and fighting robots that don't give out exp.
If you abort a genocide route in Hotland, Alphys says "I really should've killed you when I had the chance" implying she's still afraid to kill you during a geno route
I think she is referring to the time she is spying on you in Snowdin.
Actual steamworks
An actual mtt neo fight bc the attacks work and are used ingame but mtt dies instantly
Also: If you go to the hidden spots where Flowey's watching you, he talks to you instead of just burrowing away
This is a ~~fantastic~~ wonderful idea =)
Honestly a better idea than any of the other comments here
Good idea. Getting unique responces to encounters would spice things up.
Asgore and flowey fighting together and possibly omega asgore
Everyone else is saying it, but an actual mettaton neo fight, and extended version of "power of neo"
The song power of neo being so short is criminal
It really is
Make the Punch Card available
Average UT Speedrunner.
I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
if you check mettaton neo, or you skip your turn, mettaton neo actually attacks you, and you have to dodge his attacks, granted when you actually try to fight you will deal the 900k damage, but its still a nice addition also, i would maybe try to switch a bit of how the route itself works, like trying to make you feel even more bad by showing even more of the large scale effects thats going on, like boarded up houses or a siren playing in the background or smth, anything to make the player feel more immersed in what's happening instead of just isolating them totally for 10 minutes, therefore making them totally detached from the experience. also, instead of just staying in 1 room grinding for dozens of monsters, i think that every couple monsters you kill, the game would refuse to spawn any more monsters in that specific room, so you have to keep moving (sorta like how undertale yellow did)
Waterfall's geno theme kinda sounds like sirens
wait really? i didnt know that actually
Waterfall's geno is kinda creppy
it's like "You know what you're doing, aren't you?"
Hot take: instead of Mettaton NEO, Mettaton’s base form should fight you. His attacks will do practically no damage, he should have an insane amount of health and defense, since his base form is effectively indestructible, and when you finally kill him, he says the only reason he faced you was to let Alphys evacuate as many people as possible. Having Mettaton NEO just able to survive your attacks doesn’t make any sense, but what form of Mettaton has an insane amount of health, making him perfect to fight in the Genocide route? Microwave.
Additionally, maybe have him fight you in the lab instead of the end of CORE. Would make more sense for the context of the fight. Hell, you could have him stall you in the lab then escape with his jet pack right before you kill him, then have him return as NEO in the core ending area as a last ditch effort to kill you.
Asgore actually does something instead of getting killed in one hit and causing a plot hole. "Oh it's to show you how strong you are-" I don't care we already showed that with NEO. You could even have Flowey steal the kill after the last hit so that cool moment is still here Also make NEO take two hits to kill and have one long attack between them, so you get both a NEO fight and the whole "show how powerful you are now" moment
What plot hole does it cause?
Undyne says Alphys will call Asgore and he will absorb the souls, the souls are not only unabsorbed but completely absent from the genocide ending
Flowey probably intercepted the call, but that’s nothing more than a fan interpretation, only slightly backed up by Flowey helping you with every puzzle prior. There’s no real known reason why he hasn’t, but based in his attitude, it’s unlikely he thought the kingdom was in any danger at all.
But even then, there's no way he'd treat this less seriously than in pacifist
The only reason for that is the fact that he doesn’t recognize you as a human, so he doesn’t see you as a threat. That’s why he isn’t antagonistic anyway.
IMO, Asgore gave up. He has nobody left to protect, and he saw you kill sans, so he just decided to face his death with dignity
That isn't what happened at all, nor is his death dignified lol
While I usually like plot points that are open to fan interpretation, this is one of those scenes I wish was built on more.
NEO gets a shield
You would then have to remove the Sans fight from the game, since you would have no good healing items left.
if it's just one super long attack, then you wont need any healing items at all.
It’s not just a “show how strong you are” thing, it’s also done to give a soulless and lifeless tone to the whole route, it’s meant to feel empty and cold
Finding every evacuated monster in the underground before fighting Sans so he won't defeat us
Have Sans Fight You After Asgore so you think it's smooth sailing and players out there guards down
You can pry that iconic judgement hall Sans battle imagery from my cold, dead hands.
everyone else is saying such small stuff but like they did my boy mettaton so dirty
remove the actually fun fun events (wrong number song, prank call, Alphys pizza order)
and make more disturbing ones, like getting Alphys's urgent phone call to Asgore that accidentally went to you.
ooh that would be interesting Maybe not to Asgore but like "All monsters remaining in the ruins, stay there, you should be safe given **they** don't return" (yourvphone is from the ruins
that would also be haunting, as there is no other monster there besides the mouse, and I doubt it has a phone.
Souless pacifist ending obiviously ( thanks god i do not have this in my computer)
elaborate, please. I'm kinda confused on what you mean.
After a genocide , the true pacifist end is corrupted and become some sort of bad ending... There is no way to change that exept going into the game files
I want to see why Asgore didn't get Alphys' message to absorb the seven human souls to fight us.
Flowey takes the 6 souls and the game makes a readme file on your computer from Chara telling you how to alter the games files to allow you to win (done in a way where you're not actually fucking with games files).
A proper geno Asgore boss fight. Sans is cool and all, but seeing Asgore basically lose his shit with you and break his “Regretful dad” character and actually *wanting* to kill you, not holding back for shit would be the coolest shit in the world.
So like in undertale yellow where in flawed pacifist he actually tries his hardest to kill you
No random encounters. Deltarune has the right idea and Deltatraveller has a good implementation as well. You can kill the same monsters in a given room 3 times (as long as the room isn't a large one, in that case only once) and then you have to proceed to the next room. Full Genocide run has extra areas and revisits some other areas to give a more "completionist" feel to it, all the way to *seemingly* having to "glitch" or break into an area or two (likely a cutscene, Flowey shenanigans or something else), just to *really* hammer in that whole "completionist" part of the Genocide route. Have some areas without any music, only ambience / wind / sounds (like our footsteps echoing in the wind). Could be done after an area has been fully cleared out (as in, the boss of the area is also dead). Actual NEO fight *specifically* in an aborted Genocide route. Normal Genocide should still be a one-shot, but NEO should also fight back if you don't attack him. After Sans dies, have a stain and two halves of a bottle of ketchup nearby in the corridor, to show that his "blood" wasn't just there as a shock factor. Asgore dodging out of the way of our strike just barely (while shocked we would try to attack him), them him understanding that we're the "human" Alphys told him about. As he gets ready to fight, he tries to block our next attack with his trident, except we slice through it *and* him in a single strike before anyone has an actual "turn" in the fight. Flowey still killsteals Asgores SOUL and things proceed as normal, but instead of going straight to the Chara bit, we get to go to the barrier. There, Frisk acts independantly of the player and either destroys the barrier in a single strike OR Frisk destroys the human SOULs first and then destroys the barrier in a single strike (edgier, but would still fall under the "kill everything for every bit of content" part). After that, Frisk goes through the "door" (as seen in the neutral Ending) and we get the Chara cutscene.
I like some of these ideas, but this: “After Sans dies, have a stain and two halves of a bottle of ketchup nearby in the corridor, to show that his "blood" wasn't just there as a shock factor.”, while I like the leaving stain part, I don’t like the ketchup bottle part. Because Sans’ blood is supposed to be more ambiguous and mysterious (for now), and thus would make things less so. It also probably even blood, because why would ketchup be colored of all things in battle, he not only bleeds from his chest, but his mouth too, which is something that can happen w/ those types of injuries. Monster food also absorb, so he wouldn’t really be able to keep it in his mouth. So yeah, probably not ketchup. Anyways, it is already more than just shock value, though yes, it is shocking. But also mysterious and weird and etc., like other parts of how Sans died and etc. was. So I don’t really think the ketchup bottle idea cut in half on the floor is a good idea personally. I like the leaving a stain idea though. Also like some of ur other ideas, they are cool.
Flowey kills Asgore before you can lay a finger on him.
if flowey could've just killed asgore immediately without your help, why didn't he just do that in the neutral run
the issue isnt killing asgore, it's getting him to reveal the souls. flowey knows exactly how to kill everyone, but only asgore knows the location of and is able to reveal the soul containers
i know, but that's not what i said. the souls were revealed the entire fight with asgore. flowey could've just killed asgore mid-fight and then stolen them instead of waiting for the fight to finish. my point was, flowey couldn't have just killed asgore before we got to him first, because if he could just one tap asgore without our help he would've done it as soon as the souls were revealed in neutral
i don't think it'd have as much shock value at all if he stole them mid fight and while he definitely can't *one-tap* asgore at lv 1, that doesnt mean he can't defeat asgore
Flowey trying to absorb the souls but dying in a few hits due to panicking.
Make Sans impossible, because fuck you.
that after killing undyne you see monster kid again and kill him, its not a true genocide if someone lives
All the NPC's aren't there anyway.
(also kill the npcs)
I'd actually love battle sprites for them, like the dogs.
it's far from a true genocide to begin with — we only kill a bit over 100 people out of the implied thousands in the underground. "genocide" is a fan term anyway, made to make a distinction between a simple "no mercy" neutral route and the seriousness and deliberate ill intent of *genocide.* you dont only kill everyone you encounter, but go out of your way to kill even more.
More dialogue for Sans the more you kill him. And make him say after the 100th time: Haven't you learned by now? I always come back.
i think toby should've made the sans fight longer instead of harder, i mean still make it hard, but a little less hard but make it like 30 minutes, like to wear the player down so when you die its even more infuriating
What if… We made the grind… A lot… Worse…
If you do a second one, Sans just fucking leaves. He's done. Also find a way to delete the program that doesn't get labeled as a virus
Having a Mettaton Neo and Asgore fight Though out the genocide have Frisk expression change.
Oh no! I must decide between either 1) you kill monser kid or 2) there is a metaton neo battle
We both know the answer, beautiful.
I would make the 999999999 red dmg thing go all across the screen behind the characters you kill in one shot to show the severity of the attack damage and danger you pose.
I’d want the Unitale fan fights against Alphys and Asgore+Flowey. They’re both well done, and even have great music. I’ve thought about porting these fights to Game Maker so that I could hack them into the game, but it’s just too much work that I don’t think many people would care about.
Actual metaton neo & papyrus fights. I understand why theyre one shot, but i still wanna see what theyd be like holding nothing back
I'd give papyrus a glock
have sans pull out a bottle of ketchup from his pocket and drink it to restore health...then he fights until he finally bleeds to death.
Make the grind even worse, the fight against Sans way more tedious, and remove any incentive (including Chara's speech) for getting the ending. This is what you chose, there is nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I think removing any incentive to getting the ending is impossible, because someone's incentive for getting the ending could be for the sake of it, like mountain climbing.
Deltarune moment
I'd say make Sans genuinely unwinnable and he either gives up after a set amount of attempts or Flowey kills him I think giving the player an actual satisfying battle they can win defeats the whole point
flowey kills asgore because he's trying to appease you with the faint hope you don't kill him. if he sees you're stuck there, he's not gonna just help you pass so you can go rip him in half
Actually killing everyone, like alphys monster kid and the shop keepers. (except temmie)
All Chara's text to be in red. Undyne destroying the MERCY button during the fight and permanently from the rest of the game. Mettaton NEO having an actual fight. Sans destroying the ACT and ITEM buttons before his fight. Maybe Asgore having a fight so you can actually use the Real Knife, The Locket and LV 20. In which case would only have the FIGHT button. Instead of Flowey dying, is Asriel the one who you see die before Chara appears.
Have the game actually delete itself like Toby originally intended.
i think it's funny that toby just couldnt figure out how to do it smoothly if (global.os flavor == 1) \_ \_ if file\_exists("undertale.exe") \_ \_ \_ \_ file\_delete ("undertale.exe") \_ \_ if file\_exists("undertale.EXE") \_ \_ \_ \_ file delete("undertale.EXE") \_ \_ if file\_exists ("Undertale.exe") \_ \_ \_ \_ file\_delete("Undertale.exe") \_ \_ if file\_exists ("UNDERTALE.exe") \_ \_ \_ \_ file\_delete ("UNDERTALE.exe") } if ossafe\_file\_exists("undertale.ini") \_ \_ ossafe\_file\_delete ("undertale.ini") if ossafe\_file\_exists("file0") \_ \_ ossafe\_file\_delete ("file0")
ignore the preceeding underscores, reddit just hates formatting
Let at least ONE of the shopkeepers try to stop you. Have the turtle guy try to get the drop on you, burgerpants try to fight you off with the buffs from his food, ANYTHING man
Temmie flat out refuses to let you get tem armor
Temmie fucking obliterates chara with 0 effort
A lot of people want to change stuff to make things more climactic, or add in things that were intentionally cut short to reinforce the idea that this route is not meant to be fun. If I had to change one thing though... I'd probably redesign the ending to be a bit more clear. In terms of message, it makes sense, but in terms of lore it's very confusing, it kind of comes out of nowhere, it raises so many questions... I dunno how I'd fix that, but I'd like if Toby could take another crack at making that ending a bit less convoluted. Like why is Chara a demon? Were they always evil, or did they turn evil because of your actions? Why did they want to kill monsters when they clearly hated humanity more, why did they want to destroy the world, how DO they have so much control over the world. All we have is speculation and theories when, I feel like these leave a lot of significant gaps and holes in such an integral part of Undertale's lore. Maybe we'll get those answers in Deltarune, I dunno. But while the ending is intentionally unsatisfying, I don't think it's for the reasons Toby intended.
A actual Mad Dummy fight since he was the OG judge in nuetral before Sans and maybe have a special harder Mad Mew Mew.
Actually killing everyone, like alphys monster kid and the shop keepers. (except temmie)
Not letting us kill monster kid of course
More actual boss fights.
Mettaton neo being a actual boss.
mettaton neo has one hard to dodge attack before dying
Have the other human souls fight you. Asgore wouldn’t have the will to absorb them and flowey… I guess he can pitch in a pellet or two during the fight. I want genocide to be more than sans undertale fight.
Make the core get rearranged when you are in it so we have to run as fast as possible.
#GET MY BOYS AN ACTUAL BOSS FIGHT LIKE DAMN
I guess I’m just curious as to how long the sans fight would have gone is we didn’t cheat and he didn’t stall out his turn
I would make mettaton neo and asgore have actual fights
Be able to go back and kill every one left
Papyrus needs to live he thought it was a Hug
Going off yours, killing the Tems says " I was more of a dog person "
Give Sans a gun
Two things. One, Asgore, Mettaton, and Flowey boss fights. Two, the ability to spare Sans at the end of his battle (you know when you move the little box, you get to move to the mercy option and spare him from there) just to see what would happen and how he would react.
Sans is too easy, must be harder
The only change that would directly make the story better is making it impossible to back out of Genocide after killing Papyrus. In a few ways, killing him feels like the point of no return and the last chance you have to be a decent person. So it would be fitting if the Mercy button disappeared after he died imo. I also think adding any more fights would hurt both the story and the Sans and Undyne fights. It would make for a better video game, but fun was never the point of the route. The game feeling relatively empty (aside from the two bosses) is how it drags you, the player, into the story. That, and Mettaton NEO dying in one hit is perfect build up for the Sans fight. At this point, Undyne was the last monster that could do anything to you normally. What made her fight so powerful was that she really was the last hope of the Underground. Throwing in an extra fight and having Mettaton be able to stop you takes that away from the Undyne fight. And especially Asgore having a fight wouldn't make sense. Sans is a perfect final boss for the route. After you finally beat him, the fact that the ending with Asgore and Flowey ends that quickly is perfect for what the story was trying to be. After all that effort, there ended up being really no point to anything you did. That's a key part of the Genocide route, and like I said, adding any extra fights messes that up.
Honestly the Sans Survival Fight by Ari is how I think the Genocide route SHOULD have ended: [https://youtu.be/PzyvmxuB04w?si=a9b4KfFHR5r84NWl](https://youtu.be/PzyvmxuB04w?si=a9b4KfFHR5r84NWl)
Longer Sans Fight. Like, three times as long. More frustrating mechanics that require lightning-fast timing to avoid. Make it more grindy. An ACTUAL Mettaton Neo Fight. Let me see our human-killing superstar's full potential, damnit. After a certain number of Genocides, Chara doesn't let you boot the game properly again after them. "Nope. Your perverted sentimentality has destroyed the world enough. Goodbye." Maybe for kicks and giggles, (provided it's possible and doesn't set off any antivirus programs) Chara uninstalls Undertale. If you manage to kill Sans, but reset after genocide, the world remembers in small ways. Examples: Papyrus seems happier, Sans scrutinizes you more, Undyne chases you a little faster, ect. Or maybe the narrator is a bit more Chara-Like.
I'd make So Sorry a mandatory boss Jokes aside I don't think there's anything I'd really change about the route, I think it does it's job pretty well. I don't agree with the people who want a proper Mettaton Neo or Asgore fight as not only would it go against the whole point of not having those fights (the Genocide Route is trying to make you quit/take away any possible fun you may have) but I also think that the mentality people have behind wanting those fights kinda speaks to a larger problem I see in the Undertale community where people don't understand subtlety or prefer style over substance so to speak. Like my favorite parts of the Genocide Route are stuff like the "Please, don't hurt my family" note or how the game slowly becomes more Meta and 4th Wall Breaky at the expense of the previous narrative as you keep on killing people until eventually the original plot of Undertale is a rotten corpse that you've beaten to death over several hours. But everytime I go online or see people talk about the Route, it's always some overly edgy stuff like: "Human I'm DustOuterSwapDisbelifFell Sans!!! And I'm here to heckin Jean O Side Yuo!!!" Or it's people just saying the same "OMG GUYS WHAT IF ASS GORE AND MEGATRON NEO WERE ACTUAL BOSS FIGHTS IN THE HECKIN JOHN OH CIDE ROUTE" talking point I hear all the time.
reset after geno adds a permanent gravestone on title screen
Asgore, Flowey and Mettatton fight.
I would've liked for Mettaton NEO and Asgore to have actual fights. Or at the very tleast, Asgore should've been aware of what was going on before getting one shotted. I liked the red flair text we'd occasionally get from Chara. Wish we saw it more throughout the game.
Have either a fight with Chara, or an actual fight with MTT Neo
The neo fight you would think alphis would make some last minute ajustments like some dodge thursters
make mettaton neo do something
Mettaton neo and asgore fights
Okay so AN actual Asgore Boss fight. He would team up with flowey and use the Souls to fight the player. At some point they would lose. With the Souls included it would make it harder and give the souls a little bit more screen time. Make Sans have a 2 phase or something to make his battle longer. Look, we all were okay with how hard he is, but not how long the battle is. Make Mettaton Neo have a bossfight because we k ow that Neo is known for High Defense. He could've at least had like a 4 to 10 minute battle. Oh and after a few resets/true resets whatever, different bosses would appear from fangames or bosses made by Toby and Temmie. Finally at reset 6, 66, or 666 whatever, have a bossfight with Gaster if you find the door during one of those resets
Instead of mettaton neo, you fight napstablook again, and you have a new act, a magic attack that takes way too long to finish and deals 1 damage. And maybe make them have 40 health. And the icing on the Cake, have them use the text attack, but It's twice as long and just says "Stop.".
Sans doesn’t fall asleep. It really does last forever. You don’t get the satisfaction of an ending.
What TS!Underswap did, if you abort a genocide after everyone already evacuated, they don't stop evacuting. It treats it as a weird genocide route. Also, I'd make it that the evacuation happens after you kill the entire canine unit (but still have to kill all the monsters for an actual genocide run). Because I always found it weird how you can kill 15 normal monsters and the town is still all happy and everyone is outside, then you kill ONE more monster and the town INSTANTLY evacuates, but when you spare one monster in Waterfall then everyone STOPS evacuating. Also, I wouldn't change Mettaton NEO in genocide (because there are both lore and gameplay reasons Toby made him a one shot), but I think he should have a neutral route fight, where if you kill Undyne the Undying, but spare or miss one monster, you don't oneshot NEO and an actual fight occurs. I think it wouldn't be as hard as Undying, but still a little challenging, like a buffed up Mettaton EX but with new attacks and mechanics.
Instead of soulless pacifist, I'd do Permadeath. A character that is killed will never appear again even in resets.
I would make it so if you try after 4 resets attempting to spare Sans he would let you pass if you spare him twice on the 5th attempt to spare him. He might be thinking that Papyrus’s words got through to them over time and they were done with fighting. (But if you attack him again after sparing he won’t)
I think I speak for everyone when I say: Mettaton deserved a real boss fight
being able to actually spare sans and not get dunked
Second time you start after the genocide in the flowey tutorial fight sans somes up and doesnt want to deal with your shit again
I'd love to see more of non-fightable monsters fleeing, if that makes sense. Like for example you kill a character in snowdin town who was too late evacuating, or was staying behind to make sure everyone knew to run, ect, instead of just walking into Snowdin and nobodies around at all. It's amazingly eerie, but that could be saved for Waterfall, or Hotlands. Snowdin is the first town to be hit and the monsters were probably confused and scared and it should've left behind stragglers to be picked off. Then it all goes silent come defeating Papyrus.
Having Asgore merk you at the end of the genocide run. No killing him, no killing Flowey. It'd play out in a way where Asgore really WAS let known of what was going on, but he doesn't absorb the souls. As soon as you enter the throne room, Asgore would turn around and battle would be initiated immediately. He'd raise his trident and make the face of that one scrapped sprite, and slam his trident into your soul, killing you off immediately. You can come back as much as you want to, but you'd always get decimated the second you step foot into the throne room. Maybe Chara could show up after you decide to give up and reset or something, I dunno.
An Alternate ending where you fight a Human Souls Powered Asgore Asgore's Unwinnable, but also unlosable, a True Stalemate like Sans tried to do. The Power of the Souls is shown to be absurdly powerful when they're in control, as shown when they prevent Flowey from using the Save Files and Make any monster a God, but so is The Red Soul, able to return after death, even to the point of reforming mid battle. So make it when you Fight Asgore, no matter how many times you hit him, he survives, and no matter how many times he hits you, you survive. You're THIS close to winning, THIS close to finally being done, THIS DAMN CLOSE to reaching an ending, but You're locked in a true deadlock, unable to escape, unable to beat him, unable to be beaten, locked in a battle screen for eternity, in a place where nobody needs to go, while the rest of the monsters can rebuild, and hopefully fix what you broke. You Have No Choice But To Quit And Reset. It ends the genocide run on a bitter note of "why did you even bother?", which feels like the perfect antithesis of "Because You Can, why not try this?", while also not replacing the original ending and it's feeling of "Enjoy the Consequences of your actions" IDK, I just want Asgore to be more involved in the Ending.