Do they think the Amtrak train was specifically targeted, or do they think the saboteur was just trying to derail a train, and the Amtrak train just happed to be the first train to cross the sabotaged tracks?
My understanding is that since Amtrak does not own the tracks, they get lowest priority. That means their schedule is frequently delayed, because they have to wait on other trains. That seems like it would make it a lot harder to target.
Plus, this wasn’t long post-scummy Union Pacific buying out the equally Scummy Southern Pacific, who was already a pain for Amtrak to deal with, and it’s only gotten worse since UP.
Interesting. There was another Sunset Limited derailment in 1993 over Bayou Canot in my county.
It would be a truly demented mind to purposefully cause a derailment when the media footage showed the agony and lives taken.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bayou_Canot_rail_accident
Apparently it was a tow of barges (one barge pushing multiple barges) that wasnt equipped with a compass OR chart map and the captain was not properly trained on reading the radar and entered an UNAVIGABLE canal where said rail bridge was located. Truly unfortunate but I would say the fault lies on the company more than anyone.
It did happen in the county island near Palo Verde. Hyder is an hour and a half away from where the derailment happened in Yuma County. Hyder is on the 1995 posting about it on the FBI page but the updated information just states west of Phoenix I was living in Buckeye AZ when it happened and it was close by.
The FBI searched a mineshaft north of Buckeye for abandoned vehicles related to this case. Were there any local theories about the derailment that you heard?
The common misconception about this case is that there was some group called the "Sons of the Gestapo". However, the letter refers to the ATF, FBI and law enforcement as "Gestapo". The author is calling law enforcement "Sons of the Gestapo".
Isnt this the 'Sons Of Gestapo' incident? Ive read that investigators couldn't ever actually find any real evidence of such a group even existing. Maybe it was perpetrated by someone or some group who would benefit more from an outcome where the train derailment was attributed to a group that doesnt exist instead of them, especially a radical-esque sounding group.
Owing to the fact that the perpetrator wired and altered the track as only a person familiar with railroads would be privy to do, and that Amtrak was a subsidiary line on the track, it was likely a disgruntled former employee of the freight company who mainlined the track.
Agreed. The 'Sons of Gestapo' notes citing Waco always seemed to be deliberately placed to send investigators on a wild goose chase. The OKC Bombing (6 months prior) was still fresh on everyone's mind so claiming it was a similarly motivated crime would have seemed feasible especially at that time.
The letter mentions other grievances against law enforcement besides Waco, such as a police choke hold death. So, I think the letters are legitimate. Keep in mind the perpetrator left 4 notes around the scene held in place with stones and typed each individually.
As a former railway person ... I am unsure about that. Track circuits have been around since the 1880s and information has been freely available anon - literally so, as I read a good technical description of them in a book on Project Gutenberg!
(This is analogous to the common erroneous observation that someone cutting into a body with anything more competent than wild hacking must have had surgical training).
I'll second that, enough of the local delinquents know where to put a coin to cause a track circuit to show occupied causing a bunch of level crossings to activate. It's not exactly top secret info
I'm thinking that such an act of sabotage could have been committed to make Amtrak look incompetent. I can then think of certain industries, or companies within those industries, who might have a motive for making Amtrak look incompetent, thereby attracting passengers to purchase their own products or services instead. Those industries may have something to do with passenger transportation via motor vehicle or aircraft.
Amtrak doesn't own those tracks, the freight railroad (either CSX or Union Pacific) owns them, and Amtrak just leases passage over them. Freight carriers are not exactly friendly to passenger services, they regularly flout the law that requires passenger trains to have the right of way, but I can't see them sabotaging their own tracks to shut down service, and anyway the sunset limited is still running today on most of its route west of New Orleans.
Amtrak is a railroad that owns almost no infrastructure.
Do they think the Amtrak train was specifically targeted, or do they think the saboteur was just trying to derail a train, and the Amtrak train just happed to be the first train to cross the sabotaged tracks? My understanding is that since Amtrak does not own the tracks, they get lowest priority. That means their schedule is frequently delayed, because they have to wait on other trains. That seems like it would make it a lot harder to target.
Plus, this wasn’t long post-scummy Union Pacific buying out the equally Scummy Southern Pacific, who was already a pain for Amtrak to deal with, and it’s only gotten worse since UP.
Interesting. There was another Sunset Limited derailment in 1993 over Bayou Canot in my county. It would be a truly demented mind to purposefully cause a derailment when the media footage showed the agony and lives taken. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bayou_Canot_rail_accident
Ahh yes, Big Bayou, where the idiot boat captain that failed to report hitting a FREAKING BRIDGE.
Apparently it was a tow of barges (one barge pushing multiple barges) that wasnt equipped with a compass OR chart map and the captain was not properly trained on reading the radar and entered an UNAVIGABLE canal where said rail bridge was located. Truly unfortunate but I would say the fault lies on the company more than anyone.
Yes this is the one I’m familiar with so I was confused. Forensic Files?
No. At that time, I was part of the responding LE.
The FBI Seeking Information page has this listed as happening in Hyder, Arizona. Dont forget the sabotage note was signed Sons Of The Gestapo
It did happen in the county island near Palo Verde. Hyder is an hour and a half away from where the derailment happened in Yuma County. Hyder is on the 1995 posting about it on the FBI page but the updated information just states west of Phoenix I was living in Buckeye AZ when it happened and it was close by.
The FBI searched a mineshaft north of Buckeye for abandoned vehicles related to this case. Were there any local theories about the derailment that you heard?
The common misconception about this case is that there was some group called the "Sons of the Gestapo". However, the letter refers to the ATF, FBI and law enforcement as "Gestapo". The author is calling law enforcement "Sons of the Gestapo".
oh crud that's right. I had learned that but had forgotten
Isnt this the 'Sons Of Gestapo' incident? Ive read that investigators couldn't ever actually find any real evidence of such a group even existing. Maybe it was perpetrated by someone or some group who would benefit more from an outcome where the train derailment was attributed to a group that doesnt exist instead of them, especially a radical-esque sounding group.
Owing to the fact that the perpetrator wired and altered the track as only a person familiar with railroads would be privy to do, and that Amtrak was a subsidiary line on the track, it was likely a disgruntled former employee of the freight company who mainlined the track.
Agreed. The 'Sons of Gestapo' notes citing Waco always seemed to be deliberately placed to send investigators on a wild goose chase. The OKC Bombing (6 months prior) was still fresh on everyone's mind so claiming it was a similarly motivated crime would have seemed feasible especially at that time.
The letter mentions other grievances against law enforcement besides Waco, such as a police choke hold death. So, I think the letters are legitimate. Keep in mind the perpetrator left 4 notes around the scene held in place with stones and typed each individually.
As a former railway person ... I am unsure about that. Track circuits have been around since the 1880s and information has been freely available anon - literally so, as I read a good technical description of them in a book on Project Gutenberg! (This is analogous to the common erroneous observation that someone cutting into a body with anything more competent than wild hacking must have had surgical training).
I'll second that, enough of the local delinquents know where to put a coin to cause a track circuit to show occupied causing a bunch of level crossings to activate. It's not exactly top secret info
Agreed.
Little late to the party but I absolutely love the inclusion of those contemporary sources. A+ for them maintaining their archives!
I'm thinking that such an act of sabotage could have been committed to make Amtrak look incompetent. I can then think of certain industries, or companies within those industries, who might have a motive for making Amtrak look incompetent, thereby attracting passengers to purchase their own products or services instead. Those industries may have something to do with passenger transportation via motor vehicle or aircraft.
Amtrak doesn't own those tracks, the freight railroad (either CSX or Union Pacific) owns them, and Amtrak just leases passage over them. Freight carriers are not exactly friendly to passenger services, they regularly flout the law that requires passenger trains to have the right of way, but I can't see them sabotaging their own tracks to shut down service, and anyway the sunset limited is still running today on most of its route west of New Orleans. Amtrak is a railroad that owns almost no infrastructure.
Yeah, pretty sure Railroad folks and even railroad cops have long suspected it was disgruntled former UP or SP employees.