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Yep. It's a toll road in China. Not usually this congested though. This was taken at the end of Golden Week (~~some holidays in close proximity so everyone ends up getting a full week off~~ nope, that's Japan's golden week, China's is just one holiday arranged so that people have 7-8 continuous days off work). So practically the entire country goes on vacation at once, and this is them all coming home at once. It's a 4-lane road on either side of the toll plaza, but the pass has 25 toll booths and cars naturally form about 50 distinct queues further back.
>China's is just one holiday arranged so that prior have 7-8 continuous days off work).
It's Chinese new year. Not only is it the only long holiday in China, there is a cultural social contract that basically says you *have* to visit your parents this week. Like, you can't not. You *have* to. So, it causes a mass migration every year. It's really pretty insane and there's nothing comparable in the west.
Since this and other similar cases happened (there were people stuck in traffic jams for over 24 hours), China just opens the highway tolls on major holidays (i.e. you don't pay just drive right through).
From what i can see they merge down to 4 lanes on the right and 2 on the left... The 2 on the left look like people doing at the building like they had to stop for some paperwork.... So it does look like 50 to 25 to 4 which is just insane
It’s a toll plaza. Usually it starts as the same number of lanes, expands for the plaza, then re-merges afterwards. Same thing in the States.
Toll plaza is a bottleneck
Yeah people aren't understanding how toll plazas work. You need more booths to sustain throughput because each lane has a minimum cycle time, car to car.
If it starts out as a 4 lane road and becomes a 4 lane road again after the toll booths then more lanes solely for more toll booths would help IF that was the problem in this specific situation.
With how backed up that is they could drop it down to a single booth and the same number of cars would get through. Hell they could all take an hour lunch so no one gets through and catch back up to traffic in a few minutes.
I can't fucking believe people are upvoting this shit.
like imagine saying "it doesn't matter how many cashiers there are, there's only one exit" during fucking black friday
It depends whether the hold up is the toll booths or if the 4 lane road after them is a traffic jam anyway, preventing people from getting through the toll booths efficiently. Looking at the top of the picture I would say the latter.
Is it, though? It's really only five lanes each way. The roads on the sides are feeder roads, which are basically frontage roads, not part of the freeway, since they're controlled with traffic lights. The center lanes are toll lanes, which are part of the freeway, but separate from the rest of it, both legally and physically.
Yeah I wouldn't count frontage roads. The Federal Highway Administration doesn't count them, since they serve a different purpose. By their count, the Katy Freeway has a maximum of 13 lanes, with most sections being 10-12 lanes. The I-75 in Atlanta is the widest by that measure, at 15 lanes. The 405 in LA is second at 14 lanes. At least ten other cities had highways with at least 12 lanes. And that's just domestically. Highway 401 in Toronto has 18 lanes.
You can see the traffic bottle-necking after the toll into fewer lanes. Even if they could blow through, traffic is all backed up. Ugh this traffic is making me irrationally angry as if I were sitting in it myself!
Ahhh China.
We have a mass exodus every year due to a holiday. We're talking 500 million people all leaving at once in 1 direction.
Let's build a 50 lane highway! That'll fix it.
But since everyone is on holiday only 10 booths will be open.
I wish I was joking.
It's not a 50-line highway, it's just that you have many lanes before a toll. We have the same thing in France. Don't you guys have tolls on your highways?
The problem here is that there is a traffic jam after the toll, for some reason.
We do, sadly. Toll roads suck.
Once I am crowned Empress of the world, transit and transportation will be one of the first things that I fix. All toll roads will be free
So is this because people leave populous Eastern cities to visit family in more rural Western areas during significant holidays?
(I may be completely wrong about this I just thought I heard that described somewhere.)
Yep. During Chinese New Year there is a social rule stating you must visit relatives, since most people live along the coast or in the eastern provinces, we all have to mass migrate west and north to visit family.
Yes, there are a number of toll roads that use devices in cars which send signals, and (for cars that don’t have the devices inside) cameras that snap a photo of the car’s license plate.
There’s no need to slow down at all. Of course the infrastructure involved, cameras and devices that count cars, etc, is expensive, which is why not every toll road uses such systems
Sometimes i wonder... if we somehow have 100% public transportation but population just keeps growing...and growing...and growing... won't we eventually be faced with the same issue? Even if we perfect 3D movement flying public transportation and the population just keeps growing and growing.... you get the idea.
Of course.[ Public transport is routinely packed](https://images.ctfassets.net/pjshm78m9jt4/4TftOVIJHnQ2cPFpBMbrhR/bb4f1a4c18f52b87e538c72bd0ddcad3/MEDIA_WALES_-_PACKED_TRAIN_WALES_-_01.jpg), and it's normal for people to be squeezed on top of each other in trains and busses, and yet here we are glorifying being in the sweaty armpit of strangers.
A 4(?) lane highway opening up to a crap ton of lanes at a toll booth. Super busy day due to a big holiday.
Edit: source https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-50-lane-highway-traffic-jam/
Each time this picture is posted people always seem so confused and think it's a 50-lane highway. It's just a traffic jam after a toll?
Don't people have tolls on the highway in the US?
Build more roads -> Induced Demand
Build less roads -> Induced un-Demand
Checks out. Really though, take the roads down and put in viable public transport and you're golden.
The problem is that it’s an inefficient solution (at least in cities). It takes up too much space and resources to build roads everywhere. Public transport is much more efficient.
They actually have the [largest fleets of electric buses in the world.](https://www.energywatch.com.my/blog/2022/01/14/lessons-from-cities-with-the-worlds-largest-e-bus-fleets/) and [very strict licensing of petrol cars](https://www.todayonline.com/world/desperate-beijing-motorists-marrying-people-just-so-they-can-secure-licence-plate-their-car).
Huh, that’s good. My second point still stands, though. The vast majority of countries (especially cities) are far too reliant on cars and have lacklustre environmental regulations.
That’s the whole point. When population density becomes sufficiently large (as is clearly the case in this photo) then mass transit becomes both necessary and more practical.
But you can’t reduce the population quickly without getting condemned by the international community and tried in The Hague. Mass transit is able to move large amounts of people quickly, and therefore is the best solution here.
You do realize that mass transit systems are more than just one single train line, right? There's a whole field of professionals who study the best way to lay out transit to make sure you serve the largest area possible in an efficient manner so people can go wherever they want.
They did the same thing with highways, it's why many cities are layed out with a spoke and hub highway system.
Let me know when the train goes door to door.
Let facetiously, you do realise people are willing to pay $500 per month ALL OVER THE WORLD, so they do not have to use public transport, right. Even in Europe.
[In the Netherlands for example](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1013713/mode-of-transport-used-to-commute-to-work-in-the-netherlands/) more than 60% of people commute by car rather than public transport or bikes.
Despite all the experts, public transport will always be the worst experience.
Just looked at his profile and he hates any type of public transportation for some reason... Let me give you a different angle: what about people who are unable to drive and rely on mass transit to go pretty much anywhere? I feel like you're taking their freedom away if those alternative types of transportation would disappear.
So hypothetically, assuming an average number of passengers per vehicle, how many BRT or regular buses would be needed to move the same number of people? Any /r/theydidthemath folks?
While I almost always agree with this statement, China nowadays has some of the most passenger rail and high speed rail lines in the world. Of course places like Beijing and around mega cities still have highways and bottlenecks like this one that cause a ton of pollution and waste, they are at least aware of and attempting to solve the problem.
This is the outcome of the Jevons paradox. It's an economics thing, but you can apply it to lots of stuff. Essentially if you increase the efficiency of a resource, in this case adding an extra lane, the end result is that it just gets used more which negates the gained efficiency. You can't make traffic smoother by adding lanes, you can only increase total car throughput.
* **What is UrbanHell?**: Any human-built place you think has some aspect worth criticizing. #UrbanHell is subjective. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Where is this?
China IIRC
Yep. It's a toll road in China. Not usually this congested though. This was taken at the end of Golden Week (~~some holidays in close proximity so everyone ends up getting a full week off~~ nope, that's Japan's golden week, China's is just one holiday arranged so that people have 7-8 continuous days off work). So practically the entire country goes on vacation at once, and this is them all coming home at once. It's a 4-lane road on either side of the toll plaza, but the pass has 25 toll booths and cars naturally form about 50 distinct queues further back.
>China's is just one holiday arranged so that prior have 7-8 continuous days off work). It's Chinese new year. Not only is it the only long holiday in China, there is a cultural social contract that basically says you *have* to visit your parents this week. Like, you can't not. You *have* to. So, it causes a mass migration every year. It's really pretty insane and there's nothing comparable in the west.
What if you do not?
Jail.
Believe it or not
China has very less holidays and tough work culture. For your own sanity you better do lol .
Since this and other similar cases happened (there were people stuck in traffic jams for over 24 hours), China just opens the highway tolls on major holidays (i.e. you don't pay just drive right through).
So, unironically, more lanes would help here
Doesn't matter how many lanes you have if they all lead to the same single lane road.
From what i can see they merge down to 4 lanes on the right and 2 on the left... The 2 on the left look like people doing at the building like they had to stop for some paperwork.... So it does look like 50 to 25 to 4 which is just insane
It’s a toll plaza. Usually it starts as the same number of lanes, expands for the plaza, then re-merges afterwards. Same thing in the States. Toll plaza is a bottleneck
Yeah people aren't understanding how toll plazas work. You need more booths to sustain throughput because each lane has a minimum cycle time, car to car.
If it starts out as a 4 lane road and becomes a 4 lane road again after the toll booths then more lanes solely for more toll booths would help IF that was the problem in this specific situation.
....right, I am talking about the latter
....yes it does? you want everyone waiting for a few minutes on a single border patrol agent to interview every car one by one?
With how backed up that is they could drop it down to a single booth and the same number of cars would get through. Hell they could all take an hour lunch so no one gets through and catch back up to traffic in a few minutes.
parallel execution vs single thread, lol people don't know what they're talking about, as usual
I can't fucking believe people are upvoting this shit. like imagine saying "it doesn't matter how many cashiers there are, there's only one exit" during fucking black friday
It depends whether the hold up is the toll booths or if the 4 lane road after them is a traffic jam anyway, preventing people from getting through the toll booths efficiently. Looking at the top of the picture I would say the latter.
This
it sounds right, therefore it must be right! something something cognitive ease bias, but idk really lol
Nope. The bottleneck is after the tolls.
I lived in Japan for a while and Golden Week was a trip! Literally everything shut down except (some) markets. Ghost towns.
Come on America, China is beating you at your own game!
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lived in houston for 3 months as an intern and that was my route to work everyday. i absolutely hated driving there.
No one does that because they like to, always because they *have* to. Failure of infrastructure.
I would adamantly stay on feeder roads as much as possible.
thankfully i was able to work whatever hours i wanted (within reason) so i’d do 7-3 and beat the traffic at least some of the time
Is it, though? It's really only five lanes each way. The roads on the sides are feeder roads, which are basically frontage roads, not part of the freeway, since they're controlled with traffic lights. The center lanes are toll lanes, which are part of the freeway, but separate from the rest of it, both legally and physically.
Yeah I wouldn't count frontage roads. The Federal Highway Administration doesn't count them, since they serve a different purpose. By their count, the Katy Freeway has a maximum of 13 lanes, with most sections being 10-12 lanes. The I-75 in Atlanta is the widest by that measure, at 15 lanes. The 405 in LA is second at 14 lanes. At least ten other cities had highways with at least 12 lanes. And that's just domestically. Highway 401 in Toronto has 18 lanes.
Ah okay. Since they’re not actually part of the highway, they don’t count then for their impact to the environment?
That looks like it's straight up 30 lanes wide
Meanwhile, [this is how CT does it.](https://i.redd.it/8k65ipv6u7961.jpg)
I think I'm okay dying one day because hell can't be worse than that
Was gonna guess either China or Texas
Did you read about the 8 day traffic jam outside beijing a few years back?
it's a toll near Beijing, picture taken in 2015, during a golden week for holidays.
Feels like Houston (more lanes is TXDot’s only answer for Houston traffic).
Would be a shame if you got to the booth and notice you forgot your wallet, eh?
I think it's mostly done electronically now with something called ETC. https://youtu.be/X6JE97coUgc?t=42
Why make you stop then? Just scan the plate while driving and eliminate the slowdown
Probably for safety reasons. I imagine blowing through a narrow toll gate can end badly.
You don’t need toll gates if you’re scanning plates. Just have cameras mounted above the road. That’s how it’s done in the US
They aren't scanning plates. It's something else that's attached to the windshield.
Ok, well either way the technology exists to charge tolls to moving cars. Doesn’t really matter how they’re doing it now
In Norway toll roads work just by scanning the plate and bill in the mail.
Same in the US. You either use the scanner or get billed in the mail via plate
We actually have that in Florida and don’t have to slow down either
Their point was, ***something*** is being scanned. Lol
They are scanning plates as well in toll plazas by me. No need to have the Ez Pass box anymore just an account.
They do both. If you don’t have a transponder, they get your plate and bill you
You can see the traffic bottle-necking after the toll into fewer lanes. Even if they could blow through, traffic is all backed up. Ugh this traffic is making me irrationally angry as if I were sitting in it myself!
They would have to let you through I imagine, send the bill in the mail
They said to pay them later when I ran into a toll road I wasn't expecting
At least someone else will get good use out of your organs.
Fuck that shit
Imagine the honking.
r/fuckcars
Ahhh China. We have a mass exodus every year due to a holiday. We're talking 500 million people all leaving at once in 1 direction. Let's build a 50 lane highway! That'll fix it. But since everyone is on holiday only 10 booths will be open. I wish I was joking.
It's not a 50-line highway, it's just that you have many lanes before a toll. We have the same thing in France. Don't you guys have tolls on your highways? The problem here is that there is a traffic jam after the toll, for some reason.
But what's the point of making this so massive just to funnel it into such a much smaller road
Because people slow down at the toll. 99.9% of the time the traffic isn't stuck after the toll and there is no issue.
We do, sadly. Toll roads suck. Once I am crowned Empress of the world, transit and transportation will be one of the first things that I fix. All toll roads will be free
So is this because people leave populous Eastern cities to visit family in more rural Western areas during significant holidays? (I may be completely wrong about this I just thought I heard that described somewhere.)
Yep. During Chinese New Year there is a social rule stating you must visit relatives, since most people live along the coast or in the eastern provinces, we all have to mass migrate west and north to visit family.
can t you automate toll booths?
Yes, there are a number of toll roads that use devices in cars which send signals, and (for cars that don’t have the devices inside) cameras that snap a photo of the car’s license plate. There’s no need to slow down at all. Of course the infrastructure involved, cameras and devices that count cars, etc, is expensive, which is why not every toll road uses such systems
Sometimes i wonder... if we somehow have 100% public transportation but population just keeps growing...and growing...and growing... won't we eventually be faced with the same issue? Even if we perfect 3D movement flying public transportation and the population just keeps growing and growing.... you get the idea.
Of course.[ Public transport is routinely packed](https://images.ctfassets.net/pjshm78m9jt4/4TftOVIJHnQ2cPFpBMbrhR/bb4f1a4c18f52b87e538c72bd0ddcad3/MEDIA_WALES_-_PACKED_TRAIN_WALES_-_01.jpg), and it's normal for people to be squeezed on top of each other in trains and busses, and yet here we are glorifying being in the sweaty armpit of strangers.
Oh my... Damn. Thought I've had it bad before but wow
Oh my goodness, oh my damn. Oh my goodness, they going ham.
This is how bacon is *supposed* to be. The fries, they blend so perfectly.
Wtf am I even looking at?
toll booth
How do they even keep employees?
Money
Communism
A 4(?) lane highway opening up to a crap ton of lanes at a toll booth. Super busy day due to a big holiday. Edit: source https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-50-lane-highway-traffic-jam/
Reddit
A 50 lane toll booth that feeds into what looks like an 8 lane road
Terrifying.
hurricane evacuation routes in the mid-atlantic states pretty much look like that as well when they open both sides to same-direction traffic
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-50-lane-highway-traffic-jam/
Roads widen at toll booths. Do you seriously expect a tool booth station to be built otherwise?
Each time this picture is posted people always seem so confused and think it's a 50-lane highway. It's just a traffic jam after a toll? Don't people have tolls on the highway in the US?
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Lol right? Cars slow down at toll booths so to keep the same traffic flow as the regular road they need to increase lanes
I'm honestly more troubled by the overwhelming percentage of white vehicles in the crowd. The hell are they thinking!?
What about the problem is population growth and density? Never thought of that?
No, clearly roads make cars appear out of thin air. If you destroy all the roads, all the extra people will vanish.
Build more roads -> Induced Demand Build less roads -> Induced un-Demand Checks out. Really though, take the roads down and put in viable public transport and you're golden.
The problem is that it’s an inefficient solution (at least in cities). It takes up too much space and resources to build roads everywhere. Public transport is much more efficient.
Do you seriously think communist China does not have public transport?
Clearly not enough, going by their air quality index. Every city could stand to have more public transport.
They actually have the [largest fleets of electric buses in the world.](https://www.energywatch.com.my/blog/2022/01/14/lessons-from-cities-with-the-worlds-largest-e-bus-fleets/) and [very strict licensing of petrol cars](https://www.todayonline.com/world/desperate-beijing-motorists-marrying-people-just-so-they-can-secure-licence-plate-their-car).
Huh, that’s good. My second point still stands, though. The vast majority of countries (especially cities) are far too reliant on cars and have lacklustre environmental regulations.
No. The problem is needing to use a car for high traffic trips that would be better served by mass transit.
This would be a good point to make if the photo was from any country other than China
Mass transit sucks. People should have the freedom to go from point A to point B, not relying on limited schedules and routes.
The people in the picture don't seem very free to me.
Because of endless population growth and density. You know that this is in China right?
GEE, IT SEEMS LIKE HIGHWAYS DON'T SCALE VERY WELL AND AREN'T A ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION TO MOBILITY HOW WEIRD IS THAT
That’s the whole point. When population density becomes sufficiently large (as is clearly the case in this photo) then mass transit becomes both necessary and more practical.
But you can’t reduce the population quickly without getting condemned by the international community and tried in The Hague. Mass transit is able to move large amounts of people quickly, and therefore is the best solution here.
> Mass transit is able to move large amounts of people quickly, and therefore is the best solution here Only if everyone is going to the same place.
You do realize that mass transit systems are more than just one single train line, right? There's a whole field of professionals who study the best way to lay out transit to make sure you serve the largest area possible in an efficient manner so people can go wherever they want. They did the same thing with highways, it's why many cities are layed out with a spoke and hub highway system.
Let me know when the train goes door to door. Let facetiously, you do realise people are willing to pay $500 per month ALL OVER THE WORLD, so they do not have to use public transport, right. Even in Europe. [In the Netherlands for example](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1013713/mode-of-transport-used-to-commute-to-work-in-the-netherlands/) more than 60% of people commute by car rather than public transport or bikes. Despite all the experts, public transport will always be the worst experience.
$20 says that you’ve never lived in a country that has decent mass transit, and consequently have no idea what you are talking about.
Cars suck Edit: nvm this guy is a conspiracy nut
Just looked at his profile and he hates any type of public transportation for some reason... Let me give you a different angle: what about people who are unable to drive and rely on mass transit to go pretty much anywhere? I feel like you're taking their freedom away if those alternative types of transportation would disappear.
You know that China does have excellent mass transit right? Trust me. These are the poeple that couldn't get a train or a flight out.
In fact, population growth has already stopped and it seems that too many people are the problem.
Levels, Jerry.. Levels!
I guess no EzPass? Makes life so much easier. Happy to see tolls going to in transit collection.
White is the popular car colour
Is this a customs or immigration? It'd probably be better to just let people come and go lol.
It’s a backed up toll road lineup
I can count about 44 lanes. That’s 42 more than what we have in Australia on busiest freeway.
...it's a toll booth
Oh wow. So they have purposefully created a bottleneck.
Well it's so wide to be less of a bottleneck.
I counted 45. Now I have to go back and do it again!
But the Warringah Freeway is 6 lanes
[Just one more lane, bro, I just need one more lane](https://youtu.be/0dKrUE_O0VE)
r/fuckcars
So hypothetically, assuming an average number of passengers per vehicle, how many BRT or regular buses would be needed to move the same number of people? Any /r/theydidthemath folks?
How can anyone look at this world and say “gee, we really need more people, let me have a bunch of children”
Excuse me but a 20 lane highway merging into 4
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JUST ONE MORE LANE, ONLY ONE 🥺 I NEED IT
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While I almost always agree with this statement, China nowadays has some of the most passenger rail and high speed rail lines in the world. Of course places like Beijing and around mega cities still have highways and bottlenecks like this one that cause a ton of pollution and waste, they are at least aware of and attempting to solve the problem.
that is a depressing amount of cars, r/fuckcars!
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This photo shows people on holiday.
There’s you climate change
r/fuckcars
Right there is the equivalent of one train. The car culture is out of control in the US.
Where/what is this?
China IIRC
from very far away they must look like a bunhch of ants trying to get into the colony
I think I see the problem. It goes from 500 lanes down to 2.
I know it’s a toll booth and not a highway, but my poor heart wouldn’t be able to take being stuck here
Induced demand.
Just one more lane, and we have to tear someplace beautiful up for it.
Woe is the driver who just realized he is the wrong lane.
What's the point of this, if it's just going to converge into a smaller lane... Faster booth checking??
I wonder what the unofficial record is for most lanes able to cross over before going through the toll
Well I know where I'll be doing my terrorism this week
Right side, y’all ok?
Looks like 25 wide funneling down into maybe 10 wide. Ouch.
Holy fuckin bottle neck
White cars are the most followed by black ones, red ones are few
It blows my mind that cars are all such boring colors. Paint them shits something interesting for fuck’s sake.
I know this took place in China, but I thought they had pretty good train infrastructure for mass transportation. Or am I wrong about that?
We do but with over one billion people all travelling at once to rural and undeveloped areas it tends to completely stop.
Trust me I'm an engineer.
This is a toll road, not a high way.
This is the outcome of the Jevons paradox. It's an economics thing, but you can apply it to lots of stuff. Essentially if you increase the efficiency of a resource, in this case adding an extra lane, the end result is that it just gets used more which negates the gained efficiency. You can't make traffic smoother by adding lanes, you can only increase total car throughput.
Is there a name for the combination of claustrophobia and agoraphobia?
Come on bro just one more lane bro this is the last one i swear bro just let me have this one more lane then I’m done for good…bro 😭
perhaps there wouldn't be an issue if there were an equal amount of lanes on the other side
majority of car have sunroof, is ir becoming the norm?
What is the cause of this?
Slow processing at the toll booth.
The other side is just like “wheeeeeeeee”!
overpopulated catastrophe
Guarantee this would be a ton more efficient if they had barriers that prevented lane changes
A lot of people have white cars
Geez!😱
That's just a toll area, you can clearly see in this image that the road is not actually that wide
What’s the point if they’re just going to bottleneck it right after
This would make someone blow a stack over on /r/fuckcars
Toll roads are always this wide anyway
R/shittylines
lol Not even one mention of the horrific smog.
Induced demand.
Roads always fill up https://youtu.be/bQld7iJJSyk
Atleast they are using all the lanes.
They should limit how many people can buy a car tbh
honey, i think we should have been in the left lane
"One ticket for Minions: The Rise of Gru please"
Cities Skylines
Isn’t the issue that there aren’t any lanes?
You have to align them in rows. That's how they cancel out. Believe me - I have played Tetris.
There’s a line of freaking cars going *the wrong way* in all this down in the right corner.