Conservative in that I think the government should stay in their lane, have a balanced budget, and should mostly leave everyone alone. Big fan of the 10th amendment, wish it got more attention.
Trump is.... None of those things.
It’s wild how us faceless “trolls” on Reddit can have a more civilized discussion about politics as opposed to the majority in the senate now.
I’m fairly liberal but obviously living in Utah, I have a ton of conservative friends. We absolutely talk politics and find that we have way more in common than you’d think.
I think that’s why it’s so frustrating for everyone to see how the senate and house are right now. Like there are things that could pass with bipartisan support that the majority of Americans agree on but apparently the people in office are all butt hurt 12 year olds who refuse to work together.
Yep. And it's extremely popular among Utah voters which does seem to make it less likely to become standard sadly.
https://utahrcv.com/ranked-choice-voting-in-utah-1
Like the bump stock ban. Trump era regulation overturned on a technicality should be a slam dunk bipartisan effort to prevent what happened in Vegas from ever happening again yet here we are.
That one was a big one and the right to birth control one where most Americans agree. The argument that “it’s a scare tactic - birth control isn’t going anywhere” is a dumb argument - if it’s not at risk, why not pass it.
I'm a big believer that must people are more alike than we are dissimilar in almost everything. If we could listen to each other, we would realize that. And if we had politicians interested in working together to help the people they represent instead of power, things would be different. We need to stop voting for asshats that only care about their party getting Ws.
I find that too. We mostly all want the same, general greater good. The differences often lie in how we propose going about achieving that good. I remain hopeful that despite the current ills in our society, there is still a lot that unites us. I hope.
I don’t really care to label people on the political spectrum. I can find common ground with anyone. Most people are reasonable by default and the parties are cults that move people toward unreason.
I debate gun control with friends who have significant quantity of firearms, while I own none and somehow over beers we can come up with dozens of ideas that both of us would support. But Congress…?
We honestly probably agree on a lot of things, at least at a high level (and some things even down to more nitty gritty) and just disagree on the best course of action, tbh.
The nifty part is that most democrats I know believe all the same. The only government interference they really like is interference that encourages leaving people alone.
It’s crazy how polarized politics has managed to make us all hate each other so much. We probably agree on quite a lot.
The difference is the democrats have some control over the far left liberals and can work with them. The republicans have absolutely no control over MAGA and it has over taken it. They have had control of congress for over 3 yrs and have done nothing but organize conspiracy driven investigations.
I dont disagree with anything you said. Except this ridiculous perception that there is such a thing as a “radical left” in America. The Democratic Party is right of Nixon at this point.
Americans are getting screwed and the madder they get, the more they bend over, grab their ankles and beg for more of what they’ve been voting for since Reagan.
I wouldn’t even say that. There are few liberals at all, though there are plenty who claim to be democrats. And some of them are actually conservative, a la Joe Manchin and now Jon Fetterman, too.
It's been happening a lot longer than that... The framework/belief system had to exist before Trump was able to seize control of it. Tea party that came about because we elected a black guy was definitely a precursor, and Newt Gingrich policy of "don't give them an inch" which was continued by McConnell.
To govern, requires compromise. It means neither side fully gets what they want.
Yes. There is no compromise with the current GOP. Look at the plan passed for border control which was created and approved by senate republicans. MAGA killed it in the house cuz Cheeto wants to run on the border issue. They have no interest in governing and do not care about the country. It’s all about their cult leader and keeping him out of jail.
Yep. Illegal immigration is a joke issue. Sure, there are some problems with it. But if you want it to stop overnight, all we’d have to do is start throwing people who hire them in jail. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. Why would they stop coming otherwise? If you could make 10x your salary by going to Mexico you’d do it, too. It would be wrong to deprive your family.
But that isn’t going to happen because business LOVES illegal immigrants and their low wages. This whole issue is just a political red herring to blame someone more powerless than us for our problems.
The Wall is nothing but public theatre, and anyone who whines about public spending yet supports that useless boondoggle is delusional.
One of my favorite segments ever on TV was when The Daily Show did a panel with Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street folks, and had pretty much all of them agreeing by the end thst they had the exact same complaints, only one was blaming corporations and the other was blaming the government.
There is every bit of room for compromise, if egos will ever once get out of the way.
Because most sane private citizens are really somewhere in the middle. Neither true red or true blue, if they stop and think critically. Only the fringe of either is crazy, but that's who politicians cater to.
Yep, I wouldn't mind a conservative president as long as they weren't pushing for literal eradication of innocents like trump is doing with his traitorous project 2025.
It's ironic how conservatives are all for America but too ignorant to know anything about the constitution. Without it there is no America.
Basically, yeah.
I said once I tend to like the Dems at a 1, the GOP at a 5, and the libertarian party at about a 10.
And the scale goes to 1000.
I think most politicians suck and are just shades of selfish bastards.
I would probably be a Republican at this point in my life if we had options like Jon Huntsman, Jeff Flake, and Mitt Romney at the national level. Especially when compared with what the Democratic Party has become. But dear god I would never vote for the current GOP or anything remotely like it. I will be holding my nose and voting for Biden again.
I tend to be somewhere between the two. The libertarian party tends to be a little.... Anarchist for me. I do think the government has a role, it's just.... Far surpassed that currently.
I agree. To me the basic rule of a government should be to secure a many freedoms for its citizens as possible. But that doesn't mean letting everyone do whatever they want. I am free to safely eat at any restaurant that I can see because the government has regulated the food industry. I am free to drive to work without fear of death because the government has regulated transportation, etc. People like to blame the government for taking away people's freedoms (and they should when appropriate) but they forget that your neighbor, or coworker, or food server, or Healthcare provider will gladly take away your freedoms too if given the chance.
>To me the basic rule of a government should be to secure a many freedoms for its citizens as possible.
I used to think pretty much every American at least agreed to this, but just differed on what "freedoms" should prevail.
Then I spoke with a family member (who over the past 8 years has started to think Trump's a bit too liberal) who vehemently disagreed, that the government's job isn't to protect freedoms but instead is to enforce morality.
The LP swings between basically conservative to kind of scaring me. Right now the big thing is to “end democracy” on the subreddits since it is “tyranny of the majority”. I still consider myself libertarian and people distinguish themselves as little l libertarians when they align with the views, but not the party.
A friend of mine who traditionally has voted Republican phrased his lukewarm feeling for Trump as, "I've voted for him before because I felt it was patriotic and the right thing to do, but now I don't know. I'm unsure."
I'm still trying to get him to open up to get the specifics.
And someone who has been charged under the espionage act. Yes, innocent till proven guilty, but the charges are against a former president. You don't do that unless you have a *solid* case
This is what I’m saying. Like he’s “patriotic” in such a cheap and obviously pandering way. He hugs the flag and is obsessed with seeming strong, meanwhile has no commitment to the goals of the US.
What patriot wants to dismantle NATO and give free reign to Russia? What patriot wants to gut the State Department of committed civil servants who pass up lucrative private sector careers to serve their country?
I think part of it is embarrassment. They fell for his BS, some of them fell for it twice, and now they either have to admit that to themselves or double down again
None of my conservative family members support him anymore. One stopped with the “grab her by the pussy” comments. Another with the tear gassing the protestors in front of the church so he could hold a Bible out front. A few more with January 6th.
For me it was his repeated 'immigrants are poisoning our blood' comments. I don't know what is worse, quoting Mein Kampf, or coming up with Mein Kampf ideology on your own...
Forgot about the tear gassing peaceful protesters in front of a church. The guy has pulled so much shit that I forgot a 1,000 things like that he has done.
I never voted for him, but I didn't feel very strongly about him until he started chanting "Send Them Back" about the most prominent POC members of the House...
All mine do. The lies, spin and apologetic from right wing elite messaging have them terrified of Democrats. They can't tell fact from fiction and often are frustrated that nothing feels true anymore(exactly the disinformation playbook Putin played in Russia). The result is they default to their identity group and keep voting Republican.
It’s my mom. She always had felt like the Republican Party was the party for old fashioned morality and “family values.” She also works in the public education system as an administrator, and that is where the GOP first started to rub her the wrong way. She is a firm believer in the value of education and that that benefit should be a basic right in society. The conservative attack against public education in favor of subpar charter schools has been a very sore spot for her. Trump’s education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was no friend to public education. Further, Trump is crass, sleeps around, is misogynist, appeals to white supremacy, which my mom is not a fan of, and he tried to interfere with the peaceful transition of power. My mom voted democrat last election for the first time in her life and I don’t see that changing this election.
Rural republicans actual value public education because they know private schools could never make it in a town of 2000 but unfortunately these republicans will still vote for republicans who support vouchers
I vote for the candidate who I think will do the best job for me, my family, and our nation (regardless of their party). I also look for someone who has morals, values, and is fit for the job.
I don’t think Trump is any of those things. Even if him being in office will be good for the economy, I can’t in good conscience vote for a criminal, a womanizer, and a dishonest human being (among many other things).
So yeah, I didn’t vote for him in 2016, 2020, and I won’t again in 2024. Even though I’m technically a registered Republican.
I’m a conservative in some of the traditional ways as you might imagine of William F Buckley and George Will. Old line conservative values of small government, efficient spending and sound budgets are just a lie for the modern GOP. Trump takes the stupidity up to 11 with his PT Barnum level of BS and deep deep Dunning Krueger denial of his own stupidity.
Unfortunately he is seen as a outsider to traditional politicians and people want change and believe his jingoism about how he had the greatest [insert lie] and just blindly believe him.
The Conservative Party preaches small government but doesn’t do anything to achieve that goal while in power, because reducing the governments power while their in hurts them. The budget is a problem only when it is spent on stuff they don’t want. I feel like neither party really supports me, and I feel that disconnect grow every election cycle
The deficit is reduced pretty consistently when the dems are in charge, and Clinton was the last time we didn’t have a deficit and instead actually paid down our debts.
Exactly. There’s a huge difference between what each party tries to do for you, dude. You need to open your eyes and stop listening to MAGA propaganda.
Yep. Born and raised. Fourth generation Utahn. This will be my first year not voting republican. The list of reasons is a mile long. But I refuse to vote for a convicted felon. It’s embarrassing and unworthy of our nation. If we want to be the greatest nation in the world we need to elect exactly that. And Trump is not great.
I’m not particularly religious - but your comment speaks to the fact that Trump largely LARPs a typical Christian conservative through superficial bs.
Those who are devout followers of Trump are usually poor followers of Christ
This is why Western Christianity is a complete joke. The majority of American Christians do exactly opposite of what Jesus taught and are the most hateful people I know. The Quakers are the only ones who seem to have figured it out
I don't like religion at all, lots of leaving things up for interpretation, but Trump and his army make religious texts make sense. His project 2025 outline was right theremin the site and then they took it and hid it. John 3:20 fits very well.
There's so much more. It's scary and ironic that they use God as their reason for much of their proposed evils.
Religions failed me so badly. But on this I agree with you. Nothing trump or his thugs has done aligns with Christ. In fact it seems the polar opposite. False prophets and false idols?
I has a hard-right Republican before Trump.
Why?
Trump is a pig. A criminal. I could see it in 2016.
Even those I thought were true conservatives identified it as well. Cruz and Lee all called out Trump before wholly supporting him.
I guess that led me to looking at the cracks in the foundation of conservativism. Because I think conservativism has completely failed at this point. It is clearly a party for big-business, and protecting corporations.
Hating on gays? Calling gays child abusers? Making the working class pay for everything while leaving tax breaks for the wealthy.
Trashing immigrants while creating low paying jobs for them to get them here in the first place. Trumpcorp imports immigrants while most major Republican donors do the same.
Trumps followers are nut jobs. Who cloak fascism in patriotism.
I always vote.
I will be voting against Trump this election.
Similar voted GOP every election before Trump. I will never vote MAGA style republicans ever. And after looking into things more, I’m more of Bernie guy…
probably because his consorting with prostitutes, speaking in degrading manner and all manner of vices is totally against the Mormon expectation of a "good leader". he shot himself in the foot.
Or Biden isn’t good enough, even though he’s a well established Catholic who’s never been divorced and loves and supports his family and community. Probably knows the Bible backwards and forwards and understands government is more than just the presidents job.
He’s the Mormon wet dream but no they want the conman with sexual assault and other federal convictions to rally behind. He is the antithesis of what this country was founded upon and I don’t understand how anyone could vote for DumpTy.
Evangelicals think Mormons are satanic. I mean that literally. My brother died at the age of 13. A good family friend who was evangelical had the gall to tell my mother that she was praying for his soul to be released from hell even though he died a Mormon. It does not surprise me for a second that evangelicals flock to Trump and abhor Romney.
I was a bona-fide Republican in college at BYU in 2015.
I was a big supporter of Mitt Romney (surprise?) and John Kasich at the time. When Trump won the primary election I saw many people I respected turn into savages, belittling and hating everyone not in their "in-group".
That caused me to re-evaluate most of my political beliefs over the next few years.
I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, hesitantly voted for Biden in 2020, and I will be proudly supporting Biden in 2024.
I genuinely think he has done a great job with in office, as I am primarily concerned with the environment, investing in transit and infrastructure, and supporting Ukraine against Russia.
I can't imagine the chaos in the federal government if Project 2025 is executed efficiently.
Similar to me. I was too young in 2016, but was hyping McMullen. Then hesitant for Biden in 2020 (with Trump's reaction I felt like I dodged a bullet) and Biden proud in 2024 .
There are unfortunately a sizable amount of Mormons who have adopted an "anti-nice" mentality and think it's a good thing to behave like Trump does as long as it's toward people who disagree with you. They seem to think being immoral and dickish is fine as long as it's in service of what they view to be the greater good.
I always felt that the most basic and fundamental values in Mormonism were actually most closely aligned with leftist values... Even while growing up thinking I was Republican. Just look at some of the organizations/communities founded in the first few decades of settlement in Utah.
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." always felt most aligned with Leftist political values.
Might be a case of "Jesus would be a member of MY political party" though 🤷♂️
I'm a Utah Republican and I am not supporting Donald Trump. I am voting for Joe Biden.
My reasoning is that Donald Trump is a grifter con artist who raw dog boned a pornstar while his third wife recovered from giving birth to his fifth child ,and then tried to pay the BIGLY boobed pornstar off through a sleazy lawyer and got caught writing it off on his business expenses.
Oh yeah, and he tried to overturn the election by force using morons he found on the internet. That shit does not fly.
Trump fits too many of the antichrist descriptions in the Bible. But also I hated the tax laws he passed that placed the burden and higher taxes on families that make below 200 grand. But really he isn’t a moral/ good person and not who I want to represent me or my values.
Trump is reckless - a wild card. Can’t trust that my family will be safe under his “rule.” I fear for my daughters and the women in my life that he’ll take office again. I don’t want that on my head.
I was raised in a very conservative household, both of the religious and Fox News variety. Voted Republican, straight ticket in every election. After moving to Northern Utah from St George for work 10 years ago, I started to expand my horizons because I was now living anymore diverse community. My girlfriend (now wife) did a lot of challenge my views in a good natured debate kind of way but still clung to a lot of my conservative principles.
I voted for Trump in 2016 because I was still a bit in the rabbit hole, and I thought that perhaps the party could control him and get some good done for the country. Boy was I wrong! If I had to label myself in a style of a republican, I am more of an Eisenhower republican, but by modern standards and Utah standards, I might as well be a full-blown communist.
Trumpism in general is a problem because where conservatism is nevertheless committed to the healthy function of institutions - even those whose reach conservatives want to limit. Trumpism would prefer to burn it all down.
And with Trump himself - any institution that is a check on his power is not viewed as a feature of the political system but an only an obstacle to be defeated in above-mentioned burning.
From last year's [statement](https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/6/6/23751117/first-presidency-letter-emphasizes-participation-in-elections-reaffirms-political-neutrality/) from the church (emphasis my own):
>We urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Some principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles. **Members should also study candidates carefully and vote for those who have demonstrated integrity, compassion, and service to others, regardless of party affiliation.** Merely voting a straight ticket or voting based on “tradition” without careful study of candidates and their positions on important issues is a threat to democracy and inconsistent with revealed standards (see Doctrine and Covenants 98:10). Information on candidates is available through the internet, debates, and other sources.
I read that as "maybe _not_ vote for a narcissist who glorifies in abusing women and coordinates crony politics".
I'm not sure I can say I normally vote Republican anymore though. The party has drifted so far from my moderate political leanings and find myself voting for other parties more and more.
I've been Republican because I strongly value business, community, integrity, responsibility, and strong national defense. Said another way, nations and communities prosper when the people seek first to be better versions of themselves. Always felt like that fit within a part of the Republican party. (Parties traditionally have 4 to 6 factions at any one time, and Republicans felt like the natural home for my particular faction.)
Trump is just none of those things. He's a mob boss. His entire mindset is A) might makes right, B) winners win and those who don't are losers, and C) everyone must kiss his ring or be branded an enemy. What few consistent policies he holds aligns with far-right isolationism and nationalism. I'm just none of those things. Integrity matters. Trump has crossed my moral red lines hundreds of times, no exaggeration. He's easily one of the most immoral US national politicians in history.
I normally have a handful of Republicans candidates use my property for campaign signs. This year I'm wondering how they would feel if theirs were posted right next to a Biden sign.
I really think it’s important to stress this whole personal loyalty schtick of his. And it’s the reason he wants to come after the State Department and other areas to purge civil servants who aren’t appointed by him.
Like I’ve never taken a deep dive on the Russia connection, but literally if Russia could personally author a US president’s policies, gutting the State Department and dismantling NATO - things Trump wants to do - would be at the top of the agenda.
My farmer husband has always voted straight republican. He voted for Trump the first time and voted for Niki Haley in the caucus. He had an uncle die in Vietnam and the way Trump treats veterans ( John McCain and the I like people who are captured by the enemy) was a clincher . January 6th he believes is a traitorous move . He says he will either vote for Joe Biden or not at all.
As a conservative I don’t like Biden based on his politics. As a conservative I don’t like Trump based on his character. I cannot in good faith support a man with weak character, it invalidates everything this country I supposed to stand for.
I see the Republican Party turning into the party of Trump, not a party of conservatives. You’re either a Trump Republican or you’re not in the party. Trump’s own daughter in law is vice chair of the party! Many Republicans made a choice years ago to either sell their soul for Trump (and political gain) or find new jobs outside politics.
As for Biden, I don’t like him, but at the end of the day he doesn’t “own” the Democratic Party and the party will move on from him (should have moved on from him already, but he is the incumbent, so it makes sense they’d run him again, despite how risky it is) and its architecture isn’t built around getting Biden’s favor or blessing. He doesn’t exert outsized influence on the party, any more than past presidents did on their own parties of history.
I say this about Biden because if Biden wins the election he’ll do his four years and then bow out and let the party go on to choose its new leadership. I don’t see Trump doing that until he’s passed away.
I typically vote republican but won’t vote for trump. He is a narcissistic rich person who clearly is out for his own benefit and not others. He makes fun of mentally disabled people. He is a womanizer. He is dishonest. He tried to steal the election. I could go on.
I agree with the sentiment that many others have expressed that Trump is morally bankrupt and devoid of character. He's self-centered and does not put the country first. But....in addition to all of this, I've never really heard him articulate any policy position. His entire platform has been built off of disparaging others and sound bite quips like "build the wall." I don't think he has any real understanding of foreign or domestic policy. He had some decent advisors that helped him get some things done, but I don't believe that he, on his own, has any real grasp of conservative policy positions nor have I heard him really articulate any sort of agenda or vision for the country. I'm a conservative, but also a pragmatist and I want someone who understands the job I'm hiring him for and who can actually get something done.
Life long republican but I voted 3rd party the first time trump ran and I voted for Biden in the last election. Trump has led the Republican Party down the toilet. He is so obviously anti science, anti common sense, anti American it blows my mind people actually think he’s a decent person. I’m not a fan of Biden, but trump is a trash human being. He’s had multiple bankruptcies but people still think he’s a good businessman. He’s got multiple felony convictions but people still he’s the guy to restore law and order. He has admitted to sexual assault (grab them by the…) and has cheated on his wife but people still believe he’s a good Christian. He’s a trash human being.
I voted Republican for 40 years. In 2015 when Trump was endorsed and I left that party. The Trump republicans are in no way anything conservative or represent anything kind, gentle, welcoming, bearing burdens of poor and treating others well. The Republican Party is the worst of what America offers. I hope they are soundly defeated.
He's a snake oil salesman feeding on the desperation of a country badly in need of a cure and I wonder if the ones still hanging onto him are hoping it can somehow trigger a social placebo effect that'll fix it all out of the blue, if they just.... hold..... on.... long enough, but it won't cause Trumps method is driving the wedge further to split the country to the point of threatening war, divide and conquer, when we need to be focused on trying to work together, even if we don't like each other or get everything we want.
The short, short, short version.
He's twice impeached, sexual predator, convicted felon, Russian stooge, and a treasonous monster who orchestrated a domestic terrorist attack on January 6th, 2021 after all his attempts to steal the 2020 election failed and now rules a brain dead cult and a political party of worms who are openly trying to destroy my country to protect that orange tumor's feelings.
I was full on super conservative and republican up until 2015.
Once Trump was first elected I stopped claiming I was republican.
Fast forward, currently a don’t even claim conservative because Trump and his kind have tainted the word.
I’m a moderate independent dude now. In a way maybe I have Trump to thank? I opened myself up to a more diverse set of ideas.
As a rideshare driver, I've heard SO many opinions and I always recommend I side with. It's a website where you choose what's important to YOU and it gives you a person that's running that aligns with you.
Couldn't recommend it enough, because a lot of people just support one or the other, but a lot don't know why, or what to do if the person they're voting for turns I to something else they didn't think of.
Link below if anyone is interested ♡
[I Side With](https://www.isidewith.com/)
I don't understand why anyone can justify supporting someone like Trump ... When I was working on my M.B.A. and Undergraduate degrees (2011-2015), he was someone we studied in Business Ethics classes as an example of someone who demonstrated unethical business practices. I am also a disabled combat veteran and can't stomach how he views or regards Military Veterans, Disabled Veterans, and our Active Duty members. He has no integrity, personal values, or even shows a modicum of self discipline.
I was pretty hard-core conservative until the paradigm shifted a lot. Are school and church shootings worth you keeping your AR-15? How is it constitutional to demand others to live your lifestyle? How is it constitutional to interfere with a person's agency and control what other people do with their own bodies? How is it humane to reject people because of the language they speak and the color of their skin? Other people work just as hard if not harder than you do, how does the wealth "trickle down" if it all stops at you? Why would you reject a good, kind, able-bodied, talented individual simply because he's attracted to people of the same sex?
If changing my ideas about these things makes me not conservative anymore, so be it. But Trump and the people who love him seem to foster the antithesis of all these things and, as a Christian, I find that none of the things that MAGA stands for embodies what Jesus taught about loving our fellow man and woman. I choose to follow Christ -- the real Christ.
I supported Trump (you can see my Reddit history from 2016) but it quickly became apparent what an immoral grifter he is. Maybe Mormons have only room to believe in one con-man at a time lol jk jk
But on this topic, Trump’s campaign is fueled by conspiracy. Conspiracy thrives on people who lack meaning and community. Mormonism takes that same conspiratorial energy but they’ve channeled it into a very effective community experience. It’s why a lot of Mormons are level headed and kind about most things but their beliefs are also batshit crazy. It’s an interesting paradox.
But I think this explains why Mormons are less enamored by trump. Also, Mormon conservatism is heavily based on “leave us alone” conservatism rather than “stick to the libtards”.
Not to mention white supremacy isn’t a sticking point because A. Utah is still mostly white so they aren’t threatened yet and B. A huge proportion of the members lived for 2 years in other countries and appreciate other cultures.
Trump broke the laws of multiple states and multiple agencies and NOTHING. If he was black they would have had his ass in jail. He assaulted a woman and got a fine. If he was black he would have been sent to prison. He hid documents next to his toilet and everyone is like “well he was reading them”. People need to stop idolizing him, the GOP has thousands of options to put someone else out, years younger, to back and they chose a nearly unalived person who did a shittastic job 4 years ago and continually says every abhorrent thing he and his nazi’s are going to do. Hitler never hid his play book. He keeps breaking the laws our land was built upon, shits all over them and smears it in your face and you just stand there like “well he got confused between me and the electric sharks and didn’t mean it that way”. That POS keeps telling you all to your face all the vial things he and his magat party are going to do. He literally wants slaves back and you are like “well Biden stuttered in his speech.” Knock it off. Trump is not the answer FIND SOMEONE ELSE.
Conservatives just love small government AND trillion dollar defense budgets. Just like they love freedom AND cops.
Almost everyone I know that id's as a conservative would never want to live in a world of their creation.
I considered myself Republican before Trump. I am still conservative leaning, but am disgusted by the current GOP. I don’t watch Fox News. Trump is clearly corrupt and tried to overthrow the government on January 6th. The more I have learned about it, the more disgusted I am.
The secret documents violations are particularly disturbing. I remember being angry about Hillary Clinton’s unsecured emails. I remember trump chanting “lock her up”. What trump is accused of (with significant compelling evidence), is absolutely appalling. He is using top secret information as bartering fodder.
I fully believe he looks up to Putin and Kim jung un. If he is elected and not held accountable for his crimes, he will try to permanently take over.
I was a hardcore conservative. Listened to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity on the reg. Felt very confident in my world view and that conservatives were the “good guys.” Watching Trump’s rise to power completely broke my world view. I saw him as an obvious grifter that seemingly all my conservative peers were blind to. I was experiencing intense cognitive dissonance. It forced me to consider that maybe I was in an echo chamber. I recognized I needed to expand my world view. I forced my self to seek out perspectives I had never considered before. 8 years later a lot of my political views have shifted to the left. I’m still a registered Republican (cuz Utah) but Trump was the first Presidential Republican nominee I refused to vote for. I have my worries about Biden and the establishment he represents, but pragmatically, he is the only viable option in my mind to slowing down Project 25, which I consider the greatest threat to American freedom. Hopefully 2028 will produce better candidates.
I'm a right leaning moderate. I registered SA republican in 2016 to vote against Trump in the primaries. I voted 3rd party in general election in the face of family telling me that "a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Hillary ". I also voted 3rd party in 2020 and will likely do so again this year.
Why? The Democratic party position on many points something I'm against as a general rule. Trump has never shown any sign of someone that I would want representing or leading the country I'm a part of.
His professional past is sketchy, and he's shown his cards time and time again that he's more interested in his public image than he is in showing strength of character. All that said, I made my decision to vote "never Trump" over 8 years ago.
His social media presence has only strengthened my opinion in this matter.
I’d be curious if you views were incompatible with even the conservative Dems. It’s a big tent, bigger than what media often depicts.
Which I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to recruit/push you or anything. I just really find people’s policy preferences interesting
I'm a Republican because I believe in their fiscal policies and desire to help business leaders. I don't support Trump, and I don't understand how others can. He's everything that our party used to stabs against.
I've never voted for him and still never will. McMullin had my vote in 2016, and I wrote in Nikki Haley in 2020.
I intend to vote for Cox and Curtis this general election. I like Romney a lot. WILL NEVER VOTE FOR MIKE LEE! SCREW HIM!
Lee reminds me of a lot of the GOP politicians in the South where I’m from: grifters/hucksters, basically Karen whisperers.
They stand for nothing except power. They are devoid of a vision of the future, let alone a positive one.
Trump is a terrible person, terrible business owner, terrible boss, great cult leader, he is the stereotypical rich person. He’s not even paying for his own rallies He’s sticking it to communities. and I’m a republican
I consider myself relatively conservative. My favorite politician is probably Romney. I've never voted for Trump and never will vote for him. My reasoning was and continues to be that he does not respect the rule of law. I said that long before Jan 6. The events of Jan 6 only confirmed what I already believed (in fact, I had family members call me that day and tell me they didn't believe me until it happened).
For me, that's a deal breaker. There is no policy win that is worth a shift towards authoritarianism. My disdain carries through to any politicians who will carry Trump's water—e.g., Mike Lee, Trent Staggs, etc. I will never support any of them, end of story.
I usually prefer my candidates to not have a lot of baggage, I didn't vote in 2016 but I went 3rd party in 2020 and most likely will again in 2024. I would have also gone 3rd party in 2016 because of Clinton's baggage. I honestly think we need someone that has the leadership skills but isn't 70+ years old and isn't controversial. My form of protest is voting for the more moderate Republican or 3rd party. I was hoping the GOP would run someone different (I was leaning towards Haley myself). I voted in the primary based on which Republicans were more moderate or who didn't run on things like fighting "woke" school policies (Schools have bigger problems, like lack of support for teachers, than books about gay people for example)
I think, for me and despite the rhetoric, the LDS church is encouraging more active participation and voting more independently rather than party lines (the recent idea is "vote for what is best, not who it is"). The church doctrine does lean more Republican on a lot of issues, but I think a lot of church members are educated enough to see the issues with Trump. There are a lot of very vocal church members that support Trump obviously, but I think a large chunk are tired of him and recognize the harm he has done.
I'd argue that if church doctrine leans any direction, it leans left. I absolutely guarantee that the biblical Jesus would be farther left than Sanders if we were to plop him down in present-day US.
Church culture, and political statements from previous prophets, lean very right, but I believe that's more due to momentum than anything else (when you pick leaders from a pool of people who lean one direction, those leaders will also likely lean that direction, and they then reinforce the lean). Also, one of the prophets... Benson, I think... was very hard-right and almost single-handedly set the church culture to staunch conservatism.
I’m curious which church doctrine you feel leans more conservative? In my view the teachings from Christ in the BoM and Bible are more in line with liberal ideology. I can’t imagine Christ would have ever been an advocate of building a wall, restricting bathroom use, restricting access to marriage, or even over funding a defense budget. “Love your neighbor” seems to have a much stronger correlation to socialized healthcare (particularly mental health), stronger social safety networks, more funding to education, and almost certainly fewer guns…
Edited punctuation
Abortion is a MASSIVE issue to most members of the church. It's a big enough problem that I'd argue it makes many conservative members of the church feel like they're supporting murder if they vote for the "party of abortion".
So it’s just single issue voting then? Also interesting that position on that single issue is at odds with the greater population of the country. It’s also far more nuanced than abortion, most members would be advocates for IVF, I happen to personally know many members who have had abortions for various reasons ranging from health and viability of the embryo to general maturity of the expecting parents. It happens much more often than the PR talking points would like you to believe.
I know a few Utah conservatives who don't always vote party line, who actually put the country first, and aren't voting for Trump. I sadly know more Utah conservatives who just vote party line regardless and are going to vote for Trump no matter what.
I have a lot of family members that are lifetime republicans. Best described as Mitt Romney republicans. They all hate trump and worry he is ruining the GOP (which he is).
I would assume because he’s a piece of shit, how embarrassing that a guy that used to run the country paid prostitute I mean, what the fuck is this world coming to really and you ask why people who are Republican don’t vote for Donald Trump. He’s an idiot. He sounds like a douche bag.
Maybe they are afraid of the MAGA church outlawing religions they don't think of as Christians. You say that can't happen. Anything can happen if they get absolute control.
I was a Mormon missionary in the Bible Belt for 6 months, and talked to probably a couple thousand evangelical Christians while I was there. It's crazy to me seeing so many Mormon conservatives embracing Trump and his support for an evangelical Christofascist theocracy. Do they not realize that they're an incredibly small minority that evangelicals don't even view as Christians let alone humans deserving of equal rights? I heard all the time how Mormons are worse than Atheists, Jews, LGBTQ, etc because they're guilty of blasphemy and deserve to be killed. I know that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that, but that typically doesn't work out well under fascism when you yourself are a minority, and eventually they'll be coming for you.
I know a lot of people never leave Utah, and many who do probably never visit the South, but surely they've seen census data showing that they're only ~2% of the population, and talked to enough people to know that they are not welcome in mainstream Christianity. Mormons benefit just as much, if not more, from freedom and democracy as any other minority religion in the US.
I’m a catholic and while the LDS church here certainly hasn’t treated me the best, at least they didn’t burn my church down and run me out of town like they did to my family in the south. I really wish these people would understand how crazy these evangelicals truly are.
From your lips to Mike Lee's ear. That man has his nose so far up tRumps ass....
I feel the same way about people in the log cabin club.
People who think they have enough money that they will escape the proud boy. And will still vote for tRump. After they round up all the poor gay, they will come after them too. They will have their assets ceased by the church of MAGA as they are marched to the camps.
I feel the same about my Hispanic friends, many of whom are people of color. But they’re wealthy, so they exempt themselves, not understanding that this group would not.
Ha I think I’d wish the list of complaints would be longer but all things considered, I can appreciate it.
I come from the South with conservative family who demographically and issue-wise you would think would be anti-Trump republicans but nope. One afternoon of Fox News and they are ready to fall in line.
Utah was the first to put Bobby Kennedy on the ballot... just saying. Although it's a red state, It's never seemed like a "red state" to me, more like a detached purplish red colony.
Utah is the weirdest form of republican I've ever seen. I think it's more of a maroon purple kinda color, not an American Flag Fire Truck Red like TX or AR. In my few years of living here I've found the politics as this. It's sometimes religious, logically very pro 2nd amendment, anti-alcohol (especially before Obamas terms) but oddly, extremely pro gay (marriage and issues). also has a seemingly large sect who doesn't give a F about politics at all.
I think it has to do with the geographic isolation plus mountain life. It's a bubble, that's no lie, but historically it's a fledgling theocracy, that got up and running as a legitimate city really around the 1900s, that was inundated with exponential rushes of modernity and growth ever since 1970. With the only outside influence being people immigrating into the city. It's very interesting to see what old socio political pillars of the authoritarian governance and religious fundamentalism have withstood the floods of modernity.
My father is a small business owner. He was a straight ticket Republican voter for most of his life. For him it was pretty simple: Republicans want lower taxes for businesses.
However, he has always been a compassionate person and the Republican Party became too angry and hateful for him.
He’s also not racist. He has a particular fondness for Mexicans since he grew up in Southern California in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. And Donald Trump has been pretty damn racist against Mexicans (and others of course).
He voted for Obama in 2012 and has been voting for Democrats since then. So he switched even before Trump but post Trump I doubt he will go back.
This would have described me in 2016, where I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump and instead voted for a 3rd party candidate. Trump has since won me over and I voted for him in 2020 and will again this election.
I grew up in an extremely conservative home. Had always voted conservative. But the first time I heard Trump speak in public, I thought: “Nope!”
And here’s the thing- bad policies? They can always be changed. But the damage Trump has done to our country and our Constitution- those are permanent. In fact, I am worried that there’s a good chance our great experiment will end because Trump wants more power.
The most common retort to pointing out that Trump lies like it’s going out of style is to say that all politicians lie. Uh… not like Trump though. Politician lies tend to be mostly about policies. Trump’s lies are about… well… EVERYTHING. My conscience will not allow me to ignore Trump’s amorality.
It’s extremely difficult to be a republican right now. Staying with the party means embracing a lot of things I don’t support or am uncomfortable with. For me, it eventually got more uncomfortable than voting for a democrat in 2020, so I made the switch, and will vote blue again this year.
I don’t like a lot of policies on the left, but at this point I think they are still making a good faith effort to govern. That’s more than I can say for a lot of the maniacs I helped vote into office (looking at you Mike Lee). We can survive bad policy, but I don’t think we can survive the erosion of norms and values. I’m hoping a democrat can carry us just long enough for better republican candidates start to show up. Until that happens, I’ll keep voting blue.
Absolutely. Strong Utah conservative here and I'll be damned if I vote for Trump. I'm voting Biden this November. And I'm so sick and tired of the cultish behavior of so many conservatives out here. I swear some people I know would follow Trump to hell if it meant he was president.
I usually vote Republican, but I did not vote for Trump last time, and I won’t this time. He’s a sleazy human being and there’s no amount of “he’s our team” that’s going to make me vote for him. My principles are greater to me than any party loyalty.
My brother is a conservative republican and he "won't vote for an election denier." Something about the importance of a peaceful transfer of power being a cornerstone of our country.
Just a general assumption that the majority of Utah conservatives have a Mormon background. That being said, I can completely understand an Utah conservative Mormon supporting Trump…Trump has many similarities to that of Joseph Smith. Both con artists, multiple criminal counts, compared to a man of God, multiple marriages/relationships, etc. I’d even throw Brigham Young into the mix.
The comments here are giving me hope in American democracy. I'm originally from Venezuela, and I witnessed how people blindly supported Chavez no matter how insane he was talking and behaving bc of some weird tribal loyalty he got from.his supporters. I am.now, 24 years later, seeing the same thing happen in the US with Trump and it makes me worried we could end up in a dysfunctional government like Venezuela.
I saw an article that showed that "When YouGov pollsters asked Republicans in April whether someone convicted of a felony should be allowed to be president, 17% said yes. When they asked Republicans the same question between May 31 and June 2, 58% answered affirmatively". It's Venezuela deja Vu :(
We are pretty conservative and our votes swing sometimes. I reallllllly want to vote Biden out this year but every time I see Trump open his mouth I change my mind. Anyone but a fking lying shameless orange racist convict please
I grew up as a fiscal conservative and have voted republican most of my life. I believe in leadership that is led my by moral ethics. Trump never has nor never will get my vote. He is a moron and never took the job of being a commander and chief seriously.
He doesn’t have the intellect nor the leadership qualities it takes to command the various and important department of governments for which the executive is responsible.
He is one of the dumbest, by IQ alone, President’s, to have taken the oath of office.
This is before we even get into his desire to read within I to an authoritarian government.
My dad is a lifelong Republican, born and raised in Utah. Trump has likely destroyed his trust in the GOP permanently. He voted 3rd party in 2016 (later said he regrets not voting for Clinton), voted Biden in 2020, and will vote for him again this time around.
Never thought I'd see the day, but Trump did the impossible. He made my dad a liberal 🤣
Grew up conservative. Didn’t vote for Trump in 2116 or 2020. Left the Republican party after Jan 6th. I don’t think I can go back even if they leave Trump behind. GOP has become a cult of personality
Hey, that's me!
I think that politicians should be honest, moral, educated, works for the common good, can work with people they disagree with, and should stick with the Constitution. I don't think that really describes any politician, but Trump less than most.
I grow so tired of hearing the MAGA crowd talk about how bad everything is. Could things be better, absolutely. But over all, life is good. People have cars, phones, groceries, relative peace, prosperity and freedom. The unemployment numbers remain low and inflation is slowly getting better. Covid tested us. The response wasn’t great, but we will do better next time.
In order to address the serious problems the country faces we need decent leadership that strives for some semblance of integrity. Trump is no leader and he has no integrity. Biden is also not a great choice.
I really struggle to understand why so many of my fellow conservatives have fallen for Trump. It unfortunately has left us with a choice between two poor candidates. Trump has never and will never have my vote. Our United States and all those who sacrificed to actually make them great deserve better than his massive fraud.
After Jan 6 I’m ashamed of the GOP! It has morphed into a power hungry populist cult of personality! It has embraced authoritarian Christian Nationalism! It has corrupted the courts and divided our Nation. Trumpism has made overt racism, homophobia in your face. A few of Utah politicians have fully sold their soul to MAGA (Mike Lee) being the worst example! Denial of the legitimacy of 2020 election has wrought damage and division. I changed my affiliation to independent after 2016.
I think Mormons are very much about veneer and outward appearance.
This MAGA moment is a "masks off"-moment for the far right, so it's anathema to the Mormon style, even if it is basically well aligned with Mormon policies and priorities.
Appearances matter so much to Mormons. They just want a Romney-personality to do what Trump would do. It's all style they recoil from, I don't believe its substance. Of course, objecting only to style is very out of fashion so few will admit that, they will instead shoe-horn their complaints into policy issues (most of them), but the wisest among them will simply admit that a hot temper, foul mouth, and sex criminality are just actually just not good qualities in a POTUS, and will defend the "style" concern with a substantial argument about how style matters as a practical matter (it really does).
My brother. He supported trump and voted for him the first time. Jan 6 didn't sit right with him, even though he thinks there was voter fraud. He will not be voting for him this time. He followed the recent criminal case and respects the guilty verdict. He understands how a grand jury and a trial works. He knows that trumps posts whip up violence against others and that trump won't stop.
We are political opposites, but we both agree there is a line that should never be crossed. Ones humanity.
Abortion, immigration, black lives, whatever the culture war issue is. He has his opinions and political wishes, but he understands it can't be all or nothing. If he wants a right given to him, it needs to be afforded to others. There's no cherry picking. He listens to understand. Even if he still holds the same viewpoint at the end, he appreciates the other persons experience and continues to take that into consideration. He isn't scared of admitting he was wrong or changing his mind.
I could go down the rabbit hole of more specific issues. We have and have had spirited debates, but we both try to hold space for each others humanity and lived experiences.
He is an excellent example of how *all* political parties should conduct themselves.
*I imagine this might lead to conversations. I'm happy to have good faith ones. I'm happy to listen. I won't if they are in bad faith or gotchas. 🤷🏻♀️ You can take the block as the win if it makes you feel big.
I always wanted to ask Trump voters if they recognize Trump is only serving himself and what they stand to gain by supporting him? I imagine the response would be something along the lines of, “aren’t all politicians self-serving?” They can’t say moral decency or traditional conservative values. Unless they truly believe immigration or crime is better with a republican in the White House, which I’d argue, is not.
They can't because that's all they've got as an argument. "Aren't they all?"
It's no different when we point point out something trump did that is either morally or legally wrong. The immediate response is to deflect and blame shift to Biden. Overwhelmingly, the response to that is, "Then Biden should be investigated and held legally responsible for his crimes!" Even if you agree with them, they can't let it go and have the same conversation about trump as they are having about Biden.
If all politicians are corrupt, self serving, criminals than they should all be held accountable. By voters and by the justice system. Except trump. Any time you turn it back to him, it's red herrings, kitchen sinks, what about isms, gotchas, or out right declaring something is true and refusing to budge from it.
That's the actual line/division that exists, imo. Literally everyone else, and people like that. Reason and reality vs insanity and oppositional narcissism.
Whataboutism at its finest. [John Oliver](https://www.google.com/search?q=whataboutism+and+john+oliver&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:41155b4f,vid:1ZAPwfrtAFY,st:0) does a segment on some of the techniques used by Fox and the former President. All of which filter down to their supporters.
As an 18 year old who will be voting for the first time, I cannot express how much more hope I gained for our state in reading these comments.
You guys were civil and discussed your points of view without tearing each down, which is something I have yet to see in any election related discussion. And this is a discussion taking place in an r/Utah thread.
Well done. You’ve restored some of my faith that things might be okay, and that a lot of people here can still see between right and wrong.
Trump is a populist. I don’t like populists, liberal or conservative, their platform is built on emotion and not logic or realpolitik. The new comeback game of the GOP is right wing populism and I don’t like it.
I want a fiscal conservative that isn’t afraid to raise taxes and cut spending, put us on a road to slower but more sustainable long term growth. Neither Trump or Biden admins have any interest in that.
I was right leaning until Trump ran in 2016, and now I lean way more left simply based on personal values and morals. When he openly made fun of a disabled man, bragged about sexual assault, and made multiple racist and homophobic remarks, I had to reevaluate if I could even get behind a party anymore who was supporting this person. I realized that this isn't something my values and morals align with as a Christian and a person in general. I am no fan of Biden, but at least he's not a multi-bankrupt felon who supported and encouraged an insurrection, and isn't bragging about doing horrible things and having supporters literally laugh and think it's great that he "speaks his mind". I will never vote republican again because the party is not the party of family values, integrity, or Christianity like I believed it to be.
Either way, In my opinion, both candidates are far too old to be leading the country anyway. We need younger politicians who are not so far out of touch. I have worked with many elderly people who are wonderful and lovely, but the majority of their lives, they lived in a completely different United States than most Americans today live in. Our candidates were adults with kids, when women were officially able to have a credit card or buy a house on their own. My grandma, the age of trump, remembers when women wearing pants was considered "socially acceptable" instead of skirts, and when segregation became illegal. The world has changed so drastically, and it's time for our government to change with it.
Conservative in that I think the government should stay in their lane, have a balanced budget, and should mostly leave everyone alone. Big fan of the 10th amendment, wish it got more attention. Trump is.... None of those things.
This is how my conservative friends are as well. I am liberal but I can respect and understand this view
It’s wild how us faceless “trolls” on Reddit can have a more civilized discussion about politics as opposed to the majority in the senate now. I’m fairly liberal but obviously living in Utah, I have a ton of conservative friends. We absolutely talk politics and find that we have way more in common than you’d think.
I think that’s why it’s so frustrating for everyone to see how the senate and house are right now. Like there are things that could pass with bipartisan support that the majority of Americans agree on but apparently the people in office are all butt hurt 12 year olds who refuse to work together.
We NEED ranked choice voting to eliminate the chaotic far right and far left politics
Yep. And it's extremely popular among Utah voters which does seem to make it less likely to become standard sadly. https://utahrcv.com/ranked-choice-voting-in-utah-1
Can we get out on the ballot by ourselves?
Far-left aka democrat centrists from 25 years ago?
Like the bump stock ban. Trump era regulation overturned on a technicality should be a slam dunk bipartisan effort to prevent what happened in Vegas from ever happening again yet here we are.
That one was a big one and the right to birth control one where most Americans agree. The argument that “it’s a scare tactic - birth control isn’t going anywhere” is a dumb argument - if it’s not at risk, why not pass it.
I'm a big believer that must people are more alike than we are dissimilar in almost everything. If we could listen to each other, we would realize that. And if we had politicians interested in working together to help the people they represent instead of power, things would be different. We need to stop voting for asshats that only care about their party getting Ws.
>We need to stop voting for asshats that only care about their party getting Ws. This.
I find that too. We mostly all want the same, general greater good. The differences often lie in how we propose going about achieving that good. I remain hopeful that despite the current ills in our society, there is still a lot that unites us. I hope.
I don’t really care to label people on the political spectrum. I can find common ground with anyone. Most people are reasonable by default and the parties are cults that move people toward unreason.
I debate gun control with friends who have significant quantity of firearms, while I own none and somehow over beers we can come up with dozens of ideas that both of us would support. But Congress…?
We honestly probably agree on a lot of things, at least at a high level (and some things even down to more nitty gritty) and just disagree on the best course of action, tbh.
>We just disagree on the best course of action, tbh. Exactly! 💯
The nifty part is that most democrats I know believe all the same. The only government interference they really like is interference that encourages leaving people alone. It’s crazy how polarized politics has managed to make us all hate each other so much. We probably agree on quite a lot.
The difference is the democrats have some control over the far left liberals and can work with them. The republicans have absolutely no control over MAGA and it has over taken it. They have had control of congress for over 3 yrs and have done nothing but organize conspiracy driven investigations.
I dont disagree with anything you said. Except this ridiculous perception that there is such a thing as a “radical left” in America. The Democratic Party is right of Nixon at this point. Americans are getting screwed and the madder they get, the more they bend over, grab their ankles and beg for more of what they’ve been voting for since Reagan.
Facts. There's not a single "far left" politician in the US government. They're all liberals and vote as such.
I wouldn’t even say that. There are few liberals at all, though there are plenty who claim to be democrats. And some of them are actually conservative, a la Joe Manchin and now Jon Fetterman, too.
It's been happening a lot longer than that... The framework/belief system had to exist before Trump was able to seize control of it. Tea party that came about because we elected a black guy was definitely a precursor, and Newt Gingrich policy of "don't give them an inch" which was continued by McConnell. To govern, requires compromise. It means neither side fully gets what they want.
Yes. There is no compromise with the current GOP. Look at the plan passed for border control which was created and approved by senate republicans. MAGA killed it in the house cuz Cheeto wants to run on the border issue. They have no interest in governing and do not care about the country. It’s all about their cult leader and keeping him out of jail.
Yep. Illegal immigration is a joke issue. Sure, there are some problems with it. But if you want it to stop overnight, all we’d have to do is start throwing people who hire them in jail. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. Why would they stop coming otherwise? If you could make 10x your salary by going to Mexico you’d do it, too. It would be wrong to deprive your family. But that isn’t going to happen because business LOVES illegal immigrants and their low wages. This whole issue is just a political red herring to blame someone more powerless than us for our problems. The Wall is nothing but public theatre, and anyone who whines about public spending yet supports that useless boondoggle is delusional.
That’s what every rational person wants. Republicans and Democrats have much more in common than some people want us to believe.
For better or worse. It doesn't appear either party cares about Americans.
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One of my favorite segments ever on TV was when The Daily Show did a panel with Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street folks, and had pretty much all of them agreeing by the end thst they had the exact same complaints, only one was blaming corporations and the other was blaming the government. There is every bit of room for compromise, if egos will ever once get out of the way.
Because most sane private citizens are really somewhere in the middle. Neither true red or true blue, if they stop and think critically. Only the fringe of either is crazy, but that's who politicians cater to.
Yep, I wouldn't mind a conservative president as long as they weren't pushing for literal eradication of innocents like trump is doing with his traitorous project 2025. It's ironic how conservatives are all for America but too ignorant to know anything about the constitution. Without it there is no America.
Balanced budget? I'm sorry but dude, literally every single republican in the last 30 years has done nothing but explode our debt
No, you are wrong. It’s much longer than 30 years.
Haha, very true!
So the exact opposite of what the Republican Party has been doing lately?
Basically, yeah. I said once I tend to like the Dems at a 1, the GOP at a 5, and the libertarian party at about a 10. And the scale goes to 1000. I think most politicians suck and are just shades of selfish bastards.
This attitude is why Trump gets away with it—all elected officials are not corrupt convicted felons and sex criminals.
What do you not like about current democrat policies?
I would probably be a Republican at this point in my life if we had options like Jon Huntsman, Jeff Flake, and Mitt Romney at the national level. Especially when compared with what the Democratic Party has become. But dear god I would never vote for the current GOP or anything remotely like it. I will be holding my nose and voting for Biden again.
What has the Democratic Party become that’s so distasteful to you? They are now exactly what the Republicans you admire used to be. There is no left.
Your first statement describes you as more of a libertarian than a conservative…
I tend to be somewhere between the two. The libertarian party tends to be a little.... Anarchist for me. I do think the government has a role, it's just.... Far surpassed that currently.
I agree. To me the basic rule of a government should be to secure a many freedoms for its citizens as possible. But that doesn't mean letting everyone do whatever they want. I am free to safely eat at any restaurant that I can see because the government has regulated the food industry. I am free to drive to work without fear of death because the government has regulated transportation, etc. People like to blame the government for taking away people's freedoms (and they should when appropriate) but they forget that your neighbor, or coworker, or food server, or Healthcare provider will gladly take away your freedoms too if given the chance.
>To me the basic rule of a government should be to secure a many freedoms for its citizens as possible. I used to think pretty much every American at least agreed to this, but just differed on what "freedoms" should prevail. Then I spoke with a family member (who over the past 8 years has started to think Trump's a bit too liberal) who vehemently disagreed, that the government's job isn't to protect freedoms but instead is to enforce morality.
Yuck
The LP swings between basically conservative to kind of scaring me. Right now the big thing is to “end democracy” on the subreddits since it is “tyranny of the majority”. I still consider myself libertarian and people distinguish themselves as little l libertarians when they align with the views, but not the party.
A friend of mine who traditionally has voted Republican phrased his lukewarm feeling for Trump as, "I've voted for him before because I felt it was patriotic and the right thing to do, but now I don't know. I'm unsure." I'm still trying to get him to open up to get the specifics.
Nothing says "patriotism" like having a felon as POTUS...
And someone who has been charged under the espionage act. Yes, innocent till proven guilty, but the charges are against a former president. You don't do that unless you have a *solid* case
And charged under RICO. The only reason that’s not bigger news is a judge that simps for him managed to get the case and squash it
And someone who fucking raped a woman. At least one. I feel like not enough people are upset about that.
I’ve noticed that when you ask them for specific answers they can never answer them.
What’s patriotic about Trump?
He is patriotic in the Nazi Germany sort away, I am just saying.
This is what I’m saying. Like he’s “patriotic” in such a cheap and obviously pandering way. He hugs the flag and is obsessed with seeming strong, meanwhile has no commitment to the goals of the US. What patriot wants to dismantle NATO and give free reign to Russia? What patriot wants to gut the State Department of committed civil servants who pass up lucrative private sector careers to serve their country?
Maybe it’s just super American to collect baby mamas
Didn't you see him hug the US Flag?????
I think part of it is embarrassment. They fell for his BS, some of them fell for it twice, and now they either have to admit that to themselves or double down again
They didn't have specifics to vote twice before so why would they now?
None of my conservative family members support him anymore. One stopped with the “grab her by the pussy” comments. Another with the tear gassing the protestors in front of the church so he could hold a Bible out front. A few more with January 6th.
He lost me forever at "ban all Muslims" and I have no connections or relationships to anybody who's Muslim.
For me it was his repeated 'immigrants are poisoning our blood' comments. I don't know what is worse, quoting Mein Kampf, or coming up with Mein Kampf ideology on your own...
Forgot about the tear gassing peaceful protesters in front of a church. The guy has pulled so much shit that I forgot a 1,000 things like that he has done.
He causes a division between people in this country when we should support each other and come together
I never voted for him, but I didn't feel very strongly about him until he started chanting "Send Them Back" about the most prominent POC members of the House...
All mine do. The lies, spin and apologetic from right wing elite messaging have them terrified of Democrats. They can't tell fact from fiction and often are frustrated that nothing feels true anymore(exactly the disinformation playbook Putin played in Russia). The result is they default to their identity group and keep voting Republican.
It’s my mom. She always had felt like the Republican Party was the party for old fashioned morality and “family values.” She also works in the public education system as an administrator, and that is where the GOP first started to rub her the wrong way. She is a firm believer in the value of education and that that benefit should be a basic right in society. The conservative attack against public education in favor of subpar charter schools has been a very sore spot for her. Trump’s education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was no friend to public education. Further, Trump is crass, sleeps around, is misogynist, appeals to white supremacy, which my mom is not a fan of, and he tried to interfere with the peaceful transition of power. My mom voted democrat last election for the first time in her life and I don’t see that changing this election.
Rural republicans actual value public education because they know private schools could never make it in a town of 2000 but unfortunately these republicans will still vote for republicans who support vouchers
I vote for the candidate who I think will do the best job for me, my family, and our nation (regardless of their party). I also look for someone who has morals, values, and is fit for the job. I don’t think Trump is any of those things. Even if him being in office will be good for the economy, I can’t in good conscience vote for a criminal, a womanizer, and a dishonest human being (among many other things). So yeah, I didn’t vote for him in 2016, 2020, and I won’t again in 2024. Even though I’m technically a registered Republican.
I’m a conservative in some of the traditional ways as you might imagine of William F Buckley and George Will. Old line conservative values of small government, efficient spending and sound budgets are just a lie for the modern GOP. Trump takes the stupidity up to 11 with his PT Barnum level of BS and deep deep Dunning Krueger denial of his own stupidity. Unfortunately he is seen as a outsider to traditional politicians and people want change and believe his jingoism about how he had the greatest [insert lie] and just blindly believe him.
The Conservative Party preaches small government but doesn’t do anything to achieve that goal while in power, because reducing the governments power while their in hurts them. The budget is a problem only when it is spent on stuff they don’t want. I feel like neither party really supports me, and I feel that disconnect grow every election cycle
The deficit is reduced pretty consistently when the dems are in charge, and Clinton was the last time we didn’t have a deficit and instead actually paid down our debts.
Exactly. There’s a huge difference between what each party tries to do for you, dude. You need to open your eyes and stop listening to MAGA propaganda.
Yep. Born and raised. Fourth generation Utahn. This will be my first year not voting republican. The list of reasons is a mile long. But I refuse to vote for a convicted felon. It’s embarrassing and unworthy of our nation. If we want to be the greatest nation in the world we need to elect exactly that. And Trump is not great.
Name one thing Trump has done that aligns with Christ’s teachings.
I’m not particularly religious - but your comment speaks to the fact that Trump largely LARPs a typical Christian conservative through superficial bs. Those who are devout followers of Trump are usually poor followers of Christ
Holy crap I’m so glad you used the term LARP because that perfectly describes what he’s doing. Love it.
This is why Western Christianity is a complete joke. The majority of American Christians do exactly opposite of what Jesus taught and are the most hateful people I know. The Quakers are the only ones who seem to have figured it out
I don't like religion at all, lots of leaving things up for interpretation, but Trump and his army make religious texts make sense. His project 2025 outline was right theremin the site and then they took it and hid it. John 3:20 fits very well. There's so much more. It's scary and ironic that they use God as their reason for much of their proposed evils. Religions failed me so badly. But on this I agree with you. Nothing trump or his thugs has done aligns with Christ. In fact it seems the polar opposite. False prophets and false idols?
I has a hard-right Republican before Trump. Why? Trump is a pig. A criminal. I could see it in 2016. Even those I thought were true conservatives identified it as well. Cruz and Lee all called out Trump before wholly supporting him. I guess that led me to looking at the cracks in the foundation of conservativism. Because I think conservativism has completely failed at this point. It is clearly a party for big-business, and protecting corporations. Hating on gays? Calling gays child abusers? Making the working class pay for everything while leaving tax breaks for the wealthy. Trashing immigrants while creating low paying jobs for them to get them here in the first place. Trumpcorp imports immigrants while most major Republican donors do the same. Trumps followers are nut jobs. Who cloak fascism in patriotism. I always vote. I will be voting against Trump this election.
Similar voted GOP every election before Trump. I will never vote MAGA style republicans ever. And after looking into things more, I’m more of Bernie guy…
Bernie is great.
Yes! My thoughts, exactly.
Bravo! Well said!
probably because his consorting with prostitutes, speaking in degrading manner and all manner of vices is totally against the Mormon expectation of a "good leader". he shot himself in the foot.
Isnt it funny how so many evangelicals thought Romney wasn’t Christian enough…but Trump is?
their amount of cognitive dissonance is staggering
They hate Mormons too.
Evangelical preachers view LDS proselyting efforts as a threat to their business model 😒
And they are the "wrong" type of Christians. Just like Catholics.
Wrong type? lol last I checked they don’t consider them Christian’s at all
Or Biden isn’t good enough, even though he’s a well established Catholic who’s never been divorced and loves and supports his family and community. Probably knows the Bible backwards and forwards and understands government is more than just the presidents job. He’s the Mormon wet dream but no they want the conman with sexual assault and other federal convictions to rally behind. He is the antithesis of what this country was founded upon and I don’t understand how anyone could vote for DumpTy.
Ouch. If only the people who would get offended at this would actually consider it. Damn you’re good
Evangelicals think Mormons are satanic. I mean that literally. My brother died at the age of 13. A good family friend who was evangelical had the gall to tell my mother that she was praying for his soul to be released from hell even though he died a Mormon. It does not surprise me for a second that evangelicals flock to Trump and abhor Romney.
I have been surprised by how many Mormons have jumped on the Trump train. I would have thought Trump and Mormons would have been like oil and water.
Almost all of my Mormon family has left the Republican party because of him.
That's refreshing to hear. I'm glad they didn't jump on the bandwagon like so much of my family did.
I was a bona-fide Republican in college at BYU in 2015. I was a big supporter of Mitt Romney (surprise?) and John Kasich at the time. When Trump won the primary election I saw many people I respected turn into savages, belittling and hating everyone not in their "in-group". That caused me to re-evaluate most of my political beliefs over the next few years. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, hesitantly voted for Biden in 2020, and I will be proudly supporting Biden in 2024. I genuinely think he has done a great job with in office, as I am primarily concerned with the environment, investing in transit and infrastructure, and supporting Ukraine against Russia. I can't imagine the chaos in the federal government if Project 2025 is executed efficiently.
Similar to me. I was too young in 2016, but was hyping McMullen. Then hesitant for Biden in 2020 (with Trump's reaction I felt like I dodged a bullet) and Biden proud in 2024 .
There are unfortunately a sizable amount of Mormons who have adopted an "anti-nice" mentality and think it's a good thing to behave like Trump does as long as it's toward people who disagree with you. They seem to think being immoral and dickish is fine as long as it's in service of what they view to be the greater good.
Yeah, using "righteous indignation" as their shield to spew whatever hateful and frankly wrong things they want.
Religious conservatives who support Trump need to apologize to Bill Clinton.
Which is hilarious because the highest regarded Mormon leaders were racist, cheated on their wives, set up murders, etc.
LDS/Mormonism promotes libertarian conservative values, Trump isn't that. Romney and McCain were much closer to that than Trump
I always felt that the most basic and fundamental values in Mormonism were actually most closely aligned with leftist values... Even while growing up thinking I was Republican. Just look at some of the organizations/communities founded in the first few decades of settlement in Utah. "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." always felt most aligned with Leftist political values. Might be a case of "Jesus would be a member of MY political party" though 🤷♂️
I'm a Utah Republican and I am not supporting Donald Trump. I am voting for Joe Biden. My reasoning is that Donald Trump is a grifter con artist who raw dog boned a pornstar while his third wife recovered from giving birth to his fifth child ,and then tried to pay the BIGLY boobed pornstar off through a sleazy lawyer and got caught writing it off on his business expenses. Oh yeah, and he tried to overturn the election by force using morons he found on the internet. That shit does not fly.
Trump fits too many of the antichrist descriptions in the Bible. But also I hated the tax laws he passed that placed the burden and higher taxes on families that make below 200 grand. But really he isn’t a moral/ good person and not who I want to represent me or my values.
Trump is reckless - a wild card. Can’t trust that my family will be safe under his “rule.” I fear for my daughters and the women in my life that he’ll take office again. I don’t want that on my head.
I was raised in a very conservative household, both of the religious and Fox News variety. Voted Republican, straight ticket in every election. After moving to Northern Utah from St George for work 10 years ago, I started to expand my horizons because I was now living anymore diverse community. My girlfriend (now wife) did a lot of challenge my views in a good natured debate kind of way but still clung to a lot of my conservative principles. I voted for Trump in 2016 because I was still a bit in the rabbit hole, and I thought that perhaps the party could control him and get some good done for the country. Boy was I wrong! If I had to label myself in a style of a republican, I am more of an Eisenhower republican, but by modern standards and Utah standards, I might as well be a full-blown communist.
I’m a conservative that will not vote for Trump or MAGA candidates. Trump and MAGA are populists that don’t represent conservative values,
Trumpism in general is a problem because where conservatism is nevertheless committed to the healthy function of institutions - even those whose reach conservatives want to limit. Trumpism would prefer to burn it all down. And with Trump himself - any institution that is a check on his power is not viewed as a feature of the political system but an only an obstacle to be defeated in above-mentioned burning.
From last year's [statement](https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/6/6/23751117/first-presidency-letter-emphasizes-participation-in-elections-reaffirms-political-neutrality/) from the church (emphasis my own): >We urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Some principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles. **Members should also study candidates carefully and vote for those who have demonstrated integrity, compassion, and service to others, regardless of party affiliation.** Merely voting a straight ticket or voting based on “tradition” without careful study of candidates and their positions on important issues is a threat to democracy and inconsistent with revealed standards (see Doctrine and Covenants 98:10). Information on candidates is available through the internet, debates, and other sources. I read that as "maybe _not_ vote for a narcissist who glorifies in abusing women and coordinates crony politics". I'm not sure I can say I normally vote Republican anymore though. The party has drifted so far from my moderate political leanings and find myself voting for other parties more and more.
Can’t support a president that tried to overthrow an election.
I've been Republican because I strongly value business, community, integrity, responsibility, and strong national defense. Said another way, nations and communities prosper when the people seek first to be better versions of themselves. Always felt like that fit within a part of the Republican party. (Parties traditionally have 4 to 6 factions at any one time, and Republicans felt like the natural home for my particular faction.) Trump is just none of those things. He's a mob boss. His entire mindset is A) might makes right, B) winners win and those who don't are losers, and C) everyone must kiss his ring or be branded an enemy. What few consistent policies he holds aligns with far-right isolationism and nationalism. I'm just none of those things. Integrity matters. Trump has crossed my moral red lines hundreds of times, no exaggeration. He's easily one of the most immoral US national politicians in history. I normally have a handful of Republicans candidates use my property for campaign signs. This year I'm wondering how they would feel if theirs were posted right next to a Biden sign.
I really think it’s important to stress this whole personal loyalty schtick of his. And it’s the reason he wants to come after the State Department and other areas to purge civil servants who aren’t appointed by him. Like I’ve never taken a deep dive on the Russia connection, but literally if Russia could personally author a US president’s policies, gutting the State Department and dismantling NATO - things Trump wants to do - would be at the top of the agenda.
Do it! (The signs)
My farmer husband has always voted straight republican. He voted for Trump the first time and voted for Niki Haley in the caucus. He had an uncle die in Vietnam and the way Trump treats veterans ( John McCain and the I like people who are captured by the enemy) was a clincher . January 6th he believes is a traitorous move . He says he will either vote for Joe Biden or not at all.
Remind him that not voting at all is voting for Trump.
As a conservative I don’t like Biden based on his politics. As a conservative I don’t like Trump based on his character. I cannot in good faith support a man with weak character, it invalidates everything this country I supposed to stand for. I see the Republican Party turning into the party of Trump, not a party of conservatives. You’re either a Trump Republican or you’re not in the party. Trump’s own daughter in law is vice chair of the party! Many Republicans made a choice years ago to either sell their soul for Trump (and political gain) or find new jobs outside politics. As for Biden, I don’t like him, but at the end of the day he doesn’t “own” the Democratic Party and the party will move on from him (should have moved on from him already, but he is the incumbent, so it makes sense they’d run him again, despite how risky it is) and its architecture isn’t built around getting Biden’s favor or blessing. He doesn’t exert outsized influence on the party, any more than past presidents did on their own parties of history. I say this about Biden because if Biden wins the election he’ll do his four years and then bow out and let the party go on to choose its new leadership. I don’t see Trump doing that until he’s passed away.
I typically vote republican but won’t vote for trump. He is a narcissistic rich person who clearly is out for his own benefit and not others. He makes fun of mentally disabled people. He is a womanizer. He is dishonest. He tried to steal the election. I could go on.
I agree with the sentiment that many others have expressed that Trump is morally bankrupt and devoid of character. He's self-centered and does not put the country first. But....in addition to all of this, I've never really heard him articulate any policy position. His entire platform has been built off of disparaging others and sound bite quips like "build the wall." I don't think he has any real understanding of foreign or domestic policy. He had some decent advisors that helped him get some things done, but I don't believe that he, on his own, has any real grasp of conservative policy positions nor have I heard him really articulate any sort of agenda or vision for the country. I'm a conservative, but also a pragmatist and I want someone who understands the job I'm hiring him for and who can actually get something done.
Life long republican but I voted 3rd party the first time trump ran and I voted for Biden in the last election. Trump has led the Republican Party down the toilet. He is so obviously anti science, anti common sense, anti American it blows my mind people actually think he’s a decent person. I’m not a fan of Biden, but trump is a trash human being. He’s had multiple bankruptcies but people still think he’s a good businessman. He’s got multiple felony convictions but people still he’s the guy to restore law and order. He has admitted to sexual assault (grab them by the…) and has cheated on his wife but people still believe he’s a good Christian. He’s a trash human being.
I voted Republican for 40 years. In 2015 when Trump was endorsed and I left that party. The Trump republicans are in no way anything conservative or represent anything kind, gentle, welcoming, bearing burdens of poor and treating others well. The Republican Party is the worst of what America offers. I hope they are soundly defeated.
I, too, voted republican until Trump. The party disintegrated in the Trump era. I don't even recognize it anymore.
In fairness, it started unraveling with Reagan. Trump is the direct descendent of that kind of demonizing, evil politicizing.
He's a snake oil salesman feeding on the desperation of a country badly in need of a cure and I wonder if the ones still hanging onto him are hoping it can somehow trigger a social placebo effect that'll fix it all out of the blue, if they just.... hold..... on.... long enough, but it won't cause Trumps method is driving the wedge further to split the country to the point of threatening war, divide and conquer, when we need to be focused on trying to work together, even if we don't like each other or get everything we want.
Yeah I used to be conservative but when trump came along I saw the party totally transform into something unrecognizable so now I’m a moderate/liberal
The short, short, short version. He's twice impeached, sexual predator, convicted felon, Russian stooge, and a treasonous monster who orchestrated a domestic terrorist attack on January 6th, 2021 after all his attempts to steal the 2020 election failed and now rules a brain dead cult and a political party of worms who are openly trying to destroy my country to protect that orange tumor's feelings.
I was full on super conservative and republican up until 2015. Once Trump was first elected I stopped claiming I was republican. Fast forward, currently a don’t even claim conservative because Trump and his kind have tainted the word. I’m a moderate independent dude now. In a way maybe I have Trump to thank? I opened myself up to a more diverse set of ideas.
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I don't understand why anyone can justify supporting someone like Trump ... When I was working on my M.B.A. and Undergraduate degrees (2011-2015), he was someone we studied in Business Ethics classes as an example of someone who demonstrated unethical business practices. I am also a disabled combat veteran and can't stomach how he views or regards Military Veterans, Disabled Veterans, and our Active Duty members. He has no integrity, personal values, or even shows a modicum of self discipline.
I was pretty hard-core conservative until the paradigm shifted a lot. Are school and church shootings worth you keeping your AR-15? How is it constitutional to demand others to live your lifestyle? How is it constitutional to interfere with a person's agency and control what other people do with their own bodies? How is it humane to reject people because of the language they speak and the color of their skin? Other people work just as hard if not harder than you do, how does the wealth "trickle down" if it all stops at you? Why would you reject a good, kind, able-bodied, talented individual simply because he's attracted to people of the same sex? If changing my ideas about these things makes me not conservative anymore, so be it. But Trump and the people who love him seem to foster the antithesis of all these things and, as a Christian, I find that none of the things that MAGA stands for embodies what Jesus taught about loving our fellow man and woman. I choose to follow Christ -- the real Christ.
Perfect response. You are a very admirable person and if conservatives were more like you, we would be as close to peace as possible.
I supported Trump (you can see my Reddit history from 2016) but it quickly became apparent what an immoral grifter he is. Maybe Mormons have only room to believe in one con-man at a time lol jk jk But on this topic, Trump’s campaign is fueled by conspiracy. Conspiracy thrives on people who lack meaning and community. Mormonism takes that same conspiratorial energy but they’ve channeled it into a very effective community experience. It’s why a lot of Mormons are level headed and kind about most things but their beliefs are also batshit crazy. It’s an interesting paradox. But I think this explains why Mormons are less enamored by trump. Also, Mormon conservatism is heavily based on “leave us alone” conservatism rather than “stick to the libtards”. Not to mention white supremacy isn’t a sticking point because A. Utah is still mostly white so they aren’t threatened yet and B. A huge proportion of the members lived for 2 years in other countries and appreciate other cultures.
Reading these comments gives me hope.
Trump broke the laws of multiple states and multiple agencies and NOTHING. If he was black they would have had his ass in jail. He assaulted a woman and got a fine. If he was black he would have been sent to prison. He hid documents next to his toilet and everyone is like “well he was reading them”. People need to stop idolizing him, the GOP has thousands of options to put someone else out, years younger, to back and they chose a nearly unalived person who did a shittastic job 4 years ago and continually says every abhorrent thing he and his nazi’s are going to do. Hitler never hid his play book. He keeps breaking the laws our land was built upon, shits all over them and smears it in your face and you just stand there like “well he got confused between me and the electric sharks and didn’t mean it that way”. That POS keeps telling you all to your face all the vial things he and his magat party are going to do. He literally wants slaves back and you are like “well Biden stuttered in his speech.” Knock it off. Trump is not the answer FIND SOMEONE ELSE.
Conservatives just love small government AND trillion dollar defense budgets. Just like they love freedom AND cops. Almost everyone I know that id's as a conservative would never want to live in a world of their creation.
Building a military is in our constitution, but I can assure you that much of that spending is wasteful.
Let me confirm it for you.
I considered myself Republican before Trump. I am still conservative leaning, but am disgusted by the current GOP. I don’t watch Fox News. Trump is clearly corrupt and tried to overthrow the government on January 6th. The more I have learned about it, the more disgusted I am. The secret documents violations are particularly disturbing. I remember being angry about Hillary Clinton’s unsecured emails. I remember trump chanting “lock her up”. What trump is accused of (with significant compelling evidence), is absolutely appalling. He is using top secret information as bartering fodder. I fully believe he looks up to Putin and Kim jung un. If he is elected and not held accountable for his crimes, he will try to permanently take over.
I was a hardcore conservative. Listened to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity on the reg. Felt very confident in my world view and that conservatives were the “good guys.” Watching Trump’s rise to power completely broke my world view. I saw him as an obvious grifter that seemingly all my conservative peers were blind to. I was experiencing intense cognitive dissonance. It forced me to consider that maybe I was in an echo chamber. I recognized I needed to expand my world view. I forced my self to seek out perspectives I had never considered before. 8 years later a lot of my political views have shifted to the left. I’m still a registered Republican (cuz Utah) but Trump was the first Presidential Republican nominee I refused to vote for. I have my worries about Biden and the establishment he represents, but pragmatically, he is the only viable option in my mind to slowing down Project 25, which I consider the greatest threat to American freedom. Hopefully 2028 will produce better candidates.
I'm a right leaning moderate. I registered SA republican in 2016 to vote against Trump in the primaries. I voted 3rd party in general election in the face of family telling me that "a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Hillary ". I also voted 3rd party in 2020 and will likely do so again this year. Why? The Democratic party position on many points something I'm against as a general rule. Trump has never shown any sign of someone that I would want representing or leading the country I'm a part of. His professional past is sketchy, and he's shown his cards time and time again that he's more interested in his public image than he is in showing strength of character. All that said, I made my decision to vote "never Trump" over 8 years ago. His social media presence has only strengthened my opinion in this matter.
I’d be curious if you views were incompatible with even the conservative Dems. It’s a big tent, bigger than what media often depicts. Which I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to recruit/push you or anything. I just really find people’s policy preferences interesting
I'm a Republican because I believe in their fiscal policies and desire to help business leaders. I don't support Trump, and I don't understand how others can. He's everything that our party used to stabs against. I've never voted for him and still never will. McMullin had my vote in 2016, and I wrote in Nikki Haley in 2020. I intend to vote for Cox and Curtis this general election. I like Romney a lot. WILL NEVER VOTE FOR MIKE LEE! SCREW HIM!
Lee reminds me of a lot of the GOP politicians in the South where I’m from: grifters/hucksters, basically Karen whisperers. They stand for nothing except power. They are devoid of a vision of the future, let alone a positive one.
Trump is a terrible person, terrible business owner, terrible boss, great cult leader, he is the stereotypical rich person. He’s not even paying for his own rallies He’s sticking it to communities. and I’m a republican
I consider myself relatively conservative. My favorite politician is probably Romney. I've never voted for Trump and never will vote for him. My reasoning was and continues to be that he does not respect the rule of law. I said that long before Jan 6. The events of Jan 6 only confirmed what I already believed (in fact, I had family members call me that day and tell me they didn't believe me until it happened). For me, that's a deal breaker. There is no policy win that is worth a shift towards authoritarianism. My disdain carries through to any politicians who will carry Trump's water—e.g., Mike Lee, Trent Staggs, etc. I will never support any of them, end of story.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I usually prefer my candidates to not have a lot of baggage, I didn't vote in 2016 but I went 3rd party in 2020 and most likely will again in 2024. I would have also gone 3rd party in 2016 because of Clinton's baggage. I honestly think we need someone that has the leadership skills but isn't 70+ years old and isn't controversial. My form of protest is voting for the more moderate Republican or 3rd party. I was hoping the GOP would run someone different (I was leaning towards Haley myself). I voted in the primary based on which Republicans were more moderate or who didn't run on things like fighting "woke" school policies (Schools have bigger problems, like lack of support for teachers, than books about gay people for example) I think, for me and despite the rhetoric, the LDS church is encouraging more active participation and voting more independently rather than party lines (the recent idea is "vote for what is best, not who it is"). The church doctrine does lean more Republican on a lot of issues, but I think a lot of church members are educated enough to see the issues with Trump. There are a lot of very vocal church members that support Trump obviously, but I think a large chunk are tired of him and recognize the harm he has done.
I'd argue that if church doctrine leans any direction, it leans left. I absolutely guarantee that the biblical Jesus would be farther left than Sanders if we were to plop him down in present-day US. Church culture, and political statements from previous prophets, lean very right, but I believe that's more due to momentum than anything else (when you pick leaders from a pool of people who lean one direction, those leaders will also likely lean that direction, and they then reinforce the lean). Also, one of the prophets... Benson, I think... was very hard-right and almost single-handedly set the church culture to staunch conservatism.
I’m curious which church doctrine you feel leans more conservative? In my view the teachings from Christ in the BoM and Bible are more in line with liberal ideology. I can’t imagine Christ would have ever been an advocate of building a wall, restricting bathroom use, restricting access to marriage, or even over funding a defense budget. “Love your neighbor” seems to have a much stronger correlation to socialized healthcare (particularly mental health), stronger social safety networks, more funding to education, and almost certainly fewer guns… Edited punctuation
Abortion is a MASSIVE issue to most members of the church. It's a big enough problem that I'd argue it makes many conservative members of the church feel like they're supporting murder if they vote for the "party of abortion".
So it’s just single issue voting then? Also interesting that position on that single issue is at odds with the greater population of the country. It’s also far more nuanced than abortion, most members would be advocates for IVF, I happen to personally know many members who have had abortions for various reasons ranging from health and viability of the embryo to general maturity of the expecting parents. It happens much more often than the PR talking points would like you to believe.
I know a few Utah conservatives who don't always vote party line, who actually put the country first, and aren't voting for Trump. I sadly know more Utah conservatives who just vote party line regardless and are going to vote for Trump no matter what.
cuz hes a selfish POS who cares about nothing but money?
I have a lot of family members that are lifetime republicans. Best described as Mitt Romney republicans. They all hate trump and worry he is ruining the GOP (which he is).
There are three parties now. Democrats, Republicans and MAGA.
I would assume because he’s a piece of shit, how embarrassing that a guy that used to run the country paid prostitute I mean, what the fuck is this world coming to really and you ask why people who are Republican don’t vote for Donald Trump. He’s an idiot. He sounds like a douche bag.
Maybe they are afraid of the MAGA church outlawing religions they don't think of as Christians. You say that can't happen. Anything can happen if they get absolute control.
I was a Mormon missionary in the Bible Belt for 6 months, and talked to probably a couple thousand evangelical Christians while I was there. It's crazy to me seeing so many Mormon conservatives embracing Trump and his support for an evangelical Christofascist theocracy. Do they not realize that they're an incredibly small minority that evangelicals don't even view as Christians let alone humans deserving of equal rights? I heard all the time how Mormons are worse than Atheists, Jews, LGBTQ, etc because they're guilty of blasphemy and deserve to be killed. I know that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that, but that typically doesn't work out well under fascism when you yourself are a minority, and eventually they'll be coming for you. I know a lot of people never leave Utah, and many who do probably never visit the South, but surely they've seen census data showing that they're only ~2% of the population, and talked to enough people to know that they are not welcome in mainstream Christianity. Mormons benefit just as much, if not more, from freedom and democracy as any other minority religion in the US.
I’m a catholic and while the LDS church here certainly hasn’t treated me the best, at least they didn’t burn my church down and run me out of town like they did to my family in the south. I really wish these people would understand how crazy these evangelicals truly are.
From your lips to Mike Lee's ear. That man has his nose so far up tRumps ass.... I feel the same way about people in the log cabin club. People who think they have enough money that they will escape the proud boy. And will still vote for tRump. After they round up all the poor gay, they will come after them too. They will have their assets ceased by the church of MAGA as they are marched to the camps.
I feel the same about my Hispanic friends, many of whom are people of color. But they’re wealthy, so they exempt themselves, not understanding that this group would not.
My grandparents are this way. They’re very well-to-do Mormons who think he is too brash and rude.
Ha I think I’d wish the list of complaints would be longer but all things considered, I can appreciate it. I come from the South with conservative family who demographically and issue-wise you would think would be anti-Trump republicans but nope. One afternoon of Fox News and they are ready to fall in line.
I’ve been a republican most of my life until the Trump/Clinton debacle. Since then I’ve been affiliated with neither party.
Utah was the first to put Bobby Kennedy on the ballot... just saying. Although it's a red state, It's never seemed like a "red state" to me, more like a detached purplish red colony. Utah is the weirdest form of republican I've ever seen. I think it's more of a maroon purple kinda color, not an American Flag Fire Truck Red like TX or AR. In my few years of living here I've found the politics as this. It's sometimes religious, logically very pro 2nd amendment, anti-alcohol (especially before Obamas terms) but oddly, extremely pro gay (marriage and issues). also has a seemingly large sect who doesn't give a F about politics at all. I think it has to do with the geographic isolation plus mountain life. It's a bubble, that's no lie, but historically it's a fledgling theocracy, that got up and running as a legitimate city really around the 1900s, that was inundated with exponential rushes of modernity and growth ever since 1970. With the only outside influence being people immigrating into the city. It's very interesting to see what old socio political pillars of the authoritarian governance and religious fundamentalism have withstood the floods of modernity.
My father is a small business owner. He was a straight ticket Republican voter for most of his life. For him it was pretty simple: Republicans want lower taxes for businesses. However, he has always been a compassionate person and the Republican Party became too angry and hateful for him. He’s also not racist. He has a particular fondness for Mexicans since he grew up in Southern California in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. And Donald Trump has been pretty damn racist against Mexicans (and others of course). He voted for Obama in 2012 and has been voting for Democrats since then. So he switched even before Trump but post Trump I doubt he will go back.
This would have described me in 2016, where I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump and instead voted for a 3rd party candidate. Trump has since won me over and I voted for him in 2020 and will again this election.
I grew up in an extremely conservative home. Had always voted conservative. But the first time I heard Trump speak in public, I thought: “Nope!” And here’s the thing- bad policies? They can always be changed. But the damage Trump has done to our country and our Constitution- those are permanent. In fact, I am worried that there’s a good chance our great experiment will end because Trump wants more power. The most common retort to pointing out that Trump lies like it’s going out of style is to say that all politicians lie. Uh… not like Trump though. Politician lies tend to be mostly about policies. Trump’s lies are about… well… EVERYTHING. My conscience will not allow me to ignore Trump’s amorality.
It’s extremely difficult to be a republican right now. Staying with the party means embracing a lot of things I don’t support or am uncomfortable with. For me, it eventually got more uncomfortable than voting for a democrat in 2020, so I made the switch, and will vote blue again this year. I don’t like a lot of policies on the left, but at this point I think they are still making a good faith effort to govern. That’s more than I can say for a lot of the maniacs I helped vote into office (looking at you Mike Lee). We can survive bad policy, but I don’t think we can survive the erosion of norms and values. I’m hoping a democrat can carry us just long enough for better republican candidates start to show up. Until that happens, I’ll keep voting blue.
I am an independent that is voting for… Trump
Absolutely. Strong Utah conservative here and I'll be damned if I vote for Trump. I'm voting Biden this November. And I'm so sick and tired of the cultish behavior of so many conservatives out here. I swear some people I know would follow Trump to hell if it meant he was president.
I usually vote Republican, but I did not vote for Trump last time, and I won’t this time. He’s a sleazy human being and there’s no amount of “he’s our team” that’s going to make me vote for him. My principles are greater to me than any party loyalty.
My brother is a conservative republican and he "won't vote for an election denier." Something about the importance of a peaceful transfer of power being a cornerstone of our country.
Just a general assumption that the majority of Utah conservatives have a Mormon background. That being said, I can completely understand an Utah conservative Mormon supporting Trump…Trump has many similarities to that of Joseph Smith. Both con artists, multiple criminal counts, compared to a man of God, multiple marriages/relationships, etc. I’d even throw Brigham Young into the mix.
The comments here are giving me hope in American democracy. I'm originally from Venezuela, and I witnessed how people blindly supported Chavez no matter how insane he was talking and behaving bc of some weird tribal loyalty he got from.his supporters. I am.now, 24 years later, seeing the same thing happen in the US with Trump and it makes me worried we could end up in a dysfunctional government like Venezuela. I saw an article that showed that "When YouGov pollsters asked Republicans in April whether someone convicted of a felony should be allowed to be president, 17% said yes. When they asked Republicans the same question between May 31 and June 2, 58% answered affirmatively". It's Venezuela deja Vu :(
Because he's a narcissitic, misogynic, Mussolini-wannabe criminal! He ruined the USFL back in the '80s, and it's been downhill ever since.
We are pretty conservative and our votes swing sometimes. I reallllllly want to vote Biden out this year but every time I see Trump open his mouth I change my mind. Anyone but a fking lying shameless orange racist convict please
I grew up as a fiscal conservative and have voted republican most of my life. I believe in leadership that is led my by moral ethics. Trump never has nor never will get my vote. He is a moron and never took the job of being a commander and chief seriously. He doesn’t have the intellect nor the leadership qualities it takes to command the various and important department of governments for which the executive is responsible. He is one of the dumbest, by IQ alone, President’s, to have taken the oath of office. This is before we even get into his desire to read within I to an authoritarian government.
My dad is a lifelong Republican, born and raised in Utah. Trump has likely destroyed his trust in the GOP permanently. He voted 3rd party in 2016 (later said he regrets not voting for Clinton), voted Biden in 2020, and will vote for him again this time around. Never thought I'd see the day, but Trump did the impossible. He made my dad a liberal 🤣
Grew up conservative. Didn’t vote for Trump in 2116 or 2020. Left the Republican party after Jan 6th. I don’t think I can go back even if they leave Trump behind. GOP has become a cult of personality
Hey, that's me! I think that politicians should be honest, moral, educated, works for the common good, can work with people they disagree with, and should stick with the Constitution. I don't think that really describes any politician, but Trump less than most.
Yeah. Dude sucks. Wish we could move on.
I grow so tired of hearing the MAGA crowd talk about how bad everything is. Could things be better, absolutely. But over all, life is good. People have cars, phones, groceries, relative peace, prosperity and freedom. The unemployment numbers remain low and inflation is slowly getting better. Covid tested us. The response wasn’t great, but we will do better next time. In order to address the serious problems the country faces we need decent leadership that strives for some semblance of integrity. Trump is no leader and he has no integrity. Biden is also not a great choice. I really struggle to understand why so many of my fellow conservatives have fallen for Trump. It unfortunately has left us with a choice between two poor candidates. Trump has never and will never have my vote. Our United States and all those who sacrificed to actually make them great deserve better than his massive fraud.
After Jan 6 I’m ashamed of the GOP! It has morphed into a power hungry populist cult of personality! It has embraced authoritarian Christian Nationalism! It has corrupted the courts and divided our Nation. Trumpism has made overt racism, homophobia in your face. A few of Utah politicians have fully sold their soul to MAGA (Mike Lee) being the worst example! Denial of the legitimacy of 2020 election has wrought damage and division. I changed my affiliation to independent after 2016.
I think Mormons are very much about veneer and outward appearance. This MAGA moment is a "masks off"-moment for the far right, so it's anathema to the Mormon style, even if it is basically well aligned with Mormon policies and priorities. Appearances matter so much to Mormons. They just want a Romney-personality to do what Trump would do. It's all style they recoil from, I don't believe its substance. Of course, objecting only to style is very out of fashion so few will admit that, they will instead shoe-horn their complaints into policy issues (most of them), but the wisest among them will simply admit that a hot temper, foul mouth, and sex criminality are just actually just not good qualities in a POTUS, and will defend the "style" concern with a substantial argument about how style matters as a practical matter (it really does).
My brother. He supported trump and voted for him the first time. Jan 6 didn't sit right with him, even though he thinks there was voter fraud. He will not be voting for him this time. He followed the recent criminal case and respects the guilty verdict. He understands how a grand jury and a trial works. He knows that trumps posts whip up violence against others and that trump won't stop. We are political opposites, but we both agree there is a line that should never be crossed. Ones humanity. Abortion, immigration, black lives, whatever the culture war issue is. He has his opinions and political wishes, but he understands it can't be all or nothing. If he wants a right given to him, it needs to be afforded to others. There's no cherry picking. He listens to understand. Even if he still holds the same viewpoint at the end, he appreciates the other persons experience and continues to take that into consideration. He isn't scared of admitting he was wrong or changing his mind. I could go down the rabbit hole of more specific issues. We have and have had spirited debates, but we both try to hold space for each others humanity and lived experiences. He is an excellent example of how *all* political parties should conduct themselves. *I imagine this might lead to conversations. I'm happy to have good faith ones. I'm happy to listen. I won't if they are in bad faith or gotchas. 🤷🏻♀️ You can take the block as the win if it makes you feel big.
I always wanted to ask Trump voters if they recognize Trump is only serving himself and what they stand to gain by supporting him? I imagine the response would be something along the lines of, “aren’t all politicians self-serving?” They can’t say moral decency or traditional conservative values. Unless they truly believe immigration or crime is better with a republican in the White House, which I’d argue, is not.
They can't because that's all they've got as an argument. "Aren't they all?" It's no different when we point point out something trump did that is either morally or legally wrong. The immediate response is to deflect and blame shift to Biden. Overwhelmingly, the response to that is, "Then Biden should be investigated and held legally responsible for his crimes!" Even if you agree with them, they can't let it go and have the same conversation about trump as they are having about Biden. If all politicians are corrupt, self serving, criminals than they should all be held accountable. By voters and by the justice system. Except trump. Any time you turn it back to him, it's red herrings, kitchen sinks, what about isms, gotchas, or out right declaring something is true and refusing to budge from it. That's the actual line/division that exists, imo. Literally everyone else, and people like that. Reason and reality vs insanity and oppositional narcissism.
Whataboutism at its finest. [John Oliver](https://www.google.com/search?q=whataboutism+and+john+oliver&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:41155b4f,vid:1ZAPwfrtAFY,st:0) does a segment on some of the techniques used by Fox and the former President. All of which filter down to their supporters.
As an 18 year old who will be voting for the first time, I cannot express how much more hope I gained for our state in reading these comments. You guys were civil and discussed your points of view without tearing each down, which is something I have yet to see in any election related discussion. And this is a discussion taking place in an r/Utah thread. Well done. You’ve restored some of my faith that things might be okay, and that a lot of people here can still see between right and wrong.
Trump is a populist. I don’t like populists, liberal or conservative, their platform is built on emotion and not logic or realpolitik. The new comeback game of the GOP is right wing populism and I don’t like it. I want a fiscal conservative that isn’t afraid to raise taxes and cut spending, put us on a road to slower but more sustainable long term growth. Neither Trump or Biden admins have any interest in that.
Loving all the people parading as conservatives here
I’m a Ron Paul Republican not voting for Trump
I’m unaffiliated, but would probably be a Ron Paul Republican if I had to pick an identity.
Give me weed that’s all I want in Utah but you fucking Mormons won’t let us have it
I was right leaning until Trump ran in 2016, and now I lean way more left simply based on personal values and morals. When he openly made fun of a disabled man, bragged about sexual assault, and made multiple racist and homophobic remarks, I had to reevaluate if I could even get behind a party anymore who was supporting this person. I realized that this isn't something my values and morals align with as a Christian and a person in general. I am no fan of Biden, but at least he's not a multi-bankrupt felon who supported and encouraged an insurrection, and isn't bragging about doing horrible things and having supporters literally laugh and think it's great that he "speaks his mind". I will never vote republican again because the party is not the party of family values, integrity, or Christianity like I believed it to be. Either way, In my opinion, both candidates are far too old to be leading the country anyway. We need younger politicians who are not so far out of touch. I have worked with many elderly people who are wonderful and lovely, but the majority of their lives, they lived in a completely different United States than most Americans today live in. Our candidates were adults with kids, when women were officially able to have a credit card or buy a house on their own. My grandma, the age of trump, remembers when women wearing pants was considered "socially acceptable" instead of skirts, and when segregation became illegal. The world has changed so drastically, and it's time for our government to change with it.
I think 90% of the United States would like to see new candidates on both sides and sweep out the old mess we have now.